I think another unmentioned part that makes the über-charge fun in contrast to ultimate from other games is that it heavily rewards killing the medic, if you cant kill their pocket but can get the medic you just saved your team later. Über being lost on death is one of the most engaging parts of tf2
Yes I agree 100%, it makes it vitally important for both enemies and teammates to keep track of any medics on their team, especially if they are running stock. Instead of being a “useless no skill support”, most tf2 players can agree that medic is one of the most important pieces of any decent team comp and that, because of his unlocks (crossbow) and the importance of staying alive to maximize the Uber, medic does actually have a decently high skill ceiling.
Its literally the meme of the guy in a suit with the text above saying "I receive *X* and you receive *Y* " I receive 1 enemy medic with Uber, you receive your medics killer.
Agreed. One of the greatest balancing acts is how to make a support class feel just as threatening as damage, even though they're effectively apples and oranges. If Medic can't make kills and his heals don't stop people from dying, then he's effectively half a class, just bring another damage dealer. But the threat of Uber, and knowing it's lost on death, brings that sense of urgency. What's the medic doing? Who's he on? When did he last die? The fact that the support class is an actual threat and capable of being a siege breaker forces respect, despite the fact that a solo player could otherwise kill a medic and his patient 1v2 if they get some good shots off.
Decent vid but you forgot to mention critical healing, when a patient is not damaged for 10 seconds all medigun healing to them becomes greater up to 3x healing rate at around 15 seconds of being out of combat. This means medic can pay attention to who is first entering fight, has retreated, actively being damaged, etc and spread heals out. A heavy tanking damage is taking that base 24/s heal rate, but the demo that's about to run by has just respawned, you can slap him with a MASSIVE 72/s heal rate and get him overhealed before he turns the corner to fight the enemy.
@@jackgeorge9478 Yeah. Or we implement the mirrorwatch chain that made it the more damage you deal the more healing you do. A good enough Zen could become a main healer.
Crit heals was cut because it didn't really relate to how it interacts directly with the enemy. Sure, crit heals is a result of not taking damage, but you don't ever keep track of it as the enemy.
I have never heard anyone complain about the Crossbow outside of that one LazyPurple clip before, and it's because he can't spam it. You only get one shot every 1.5 seconds. It's also a projectile, which makes long-range crossbow shots much less viable as well as making healing shots harder to hit. Contrast with Ana, who seems like a 1-1 of the Crossbow with her Biotic Rifle, but is more aggravating in practice because she has a scope and her healing shot is a hitscan bullet, so she can just hang back and heal somebody while you can't get to her. The Medi-gun's design is important in that it keeps Medic with his team, so even this level of extra healing is less aggravating than other characters because you can just shoot the Medic.
In anna's defense she's also one of the least mobile characters in the game in a game much more mobile and less commital with movement than tf2. Her design is also generally much more often used in things such as high mobility dive comps which are generally some of the more well liked metas due to her ability to actually heal when they leave her and such. She has protection abilities but theyre both trick shots to a degree and are moves you actively should not just be holding for protection all the time because they're really multipurpose and lose a lot of value just sitting there. Even her gun isnt an instant damage attack as its almost poison like iwth its rapid health drain effect and it cant headshot unlike most OW weapons. Unless she lands that sleep, lot of the character have the ability to kill her even if she would have killed them and even then not all of them are completely thwarted by sleep such as most dive tanks. Sleep darts still pretty porblematic by tf2 standards given it's a stun but honestly by OW standards its one of the most fair CC moves in the game given its a sleep and damage wakes you up instead of just letting you sit there as they kill you. Nade used to be more fair but then OW2 single tanking happened and that's really put that ability into question since now you can constantly just dumpster the tank with it unlike before. A lot of anna's issues arent really "her" fault but more a fault of the general formats and mechanics of the game itself through the years I feel like. I feel if you tweeked her, changed sleeps affect to something non CC related, made her rifle affected by tf2 crit heals and sort of toned the overall heals down, and maybe play around with biotic grenade a little (though considering people are fine with something as crazy as jarate maybe not even) then a sniper type healer honestly would probably work decently in tf2. By OW standards she's only one of the most well thought out supports, though thats not saying much considering some of the utter nonsense characters in that role.
i think it was more "i wont be focusing mostly on how uber is also a great part of the medigun' i think its still fair to bring up how regular uber doesnt go against their points and how the vaccinator does
The vid is mostly fine, but that Crossbow section I disagree with. As the Crossbow is a slow firing projectile, you still need skill to use it. Being farther to the patient gives more healing, but more likely to miss. Knowing when to use the Crossbow or stick with the healing beam needs balance. Even the Lazy clip you showed has the Medic predict where the Scout would jump to clutch the battle on Lazy. It wasn't just "press M1 on a teammate to give 140 health", it needed coordination to a teammate too busy fighting someone. Valve intentionally made the Crossbow heal more in longer distances because the teammates who need that type of healing are those who are most likely to die and not make the Crossbow a "get out of death" free card when fighting at close range if it has a constant heal rate.
It is mostly just a GOOJFC though. Most maps are very claustrophobic making them naturally choke pointy. Therefor making crossbows easier to hit. Even with it being a medium reload it still is one of the fastest projectiles in the game. The amount of times I kept a heavy, soldier or demo alive because I kept pumping arrows into them at 20 health between medi beams is uncountable. The simple burst healing against projectiles and bullets that have fall off is what makes it OP.
Even still I feel like it needs some closer range nerfing, as flicking from crossbow to Medigun on an in-combat player significantly increases healing rates. Although keeping a heavy from the brink of death for 20s under fire may feel satisfying, I feel a little bad for the enemy when a medic combo of 2 decent players stomp a pub.
Not to mention if you have lots of people in one area, it’s so frustrating when I go to bolt a patient and scout eats that heal and consequently my patient dies. You gotta know when to shoot a bolt and heal. Like I saw on a video, if you miss your bolt just switch to the medi gun
I’ve seen comments mention crit heals, which triple your heal rate out of combat, but this is actually a crucial synergy with the rest of the features you note in the video. Medic is not designed to fix mistakes, rather to prevent them. The slower heal rate in combat means that overheal is harder to obtain once the engagement begins and your healing should be spread to players *before* they decide to push in. Medic players have to pre-emptively decide between heal targets, since they can’t easily remedy their teammates’ mistakes in the moment. This could also be why you have gripes with the crossbow and vaccinator. The crossbow gives burst healing with no ramp-up time, so it instantly removes progress from the other team and remedies a mistake made by your team or you. There’s a reason nobody tends to complain about the crossbow out of combat. The vaccinator is much more reactionary than the other mediguns, since its ubercharge mechanic is much more prevalent than its heal mechanics. Crippling your overheal rate and Uber build on pocketed players means that you can’t really prepare for an engagement outside of spreading crit heals, and whether you win a fight entirely depends on your reaction speed compared to the enemy (unless of course, your team whiffs for 10 whole seconds).
Team Fortress 2's damage types are also usually burst damage, so healing also rewards both the accuracy of the enemy and the patient's ability to dodge. It also punishes spam due to not only the low damage being healed off by the medigun but also allows the overheal to be broken and allow the medigun to build uber faster
Honesty I don't mind the crossbow breaking the medigun's "design pilers" by giving the medic burst healing. I think this because the crossbow has a lot of limiting factors that keep it in check. First of all, the crossbow has reverse damage falloff, meaning if you want to make the most out of the crossbows burst healing, you need to be much farther away from your patient where the crossbow bolts are much harder to hit, this raises medic's skill ceiling by giving you something to master. Another thing that keeps the crossbows burst healing in check is that the crossbow bolts doesn't give you that much uber when you heal someone with them, uber is one of the most powerful abilities in any first person shooter and being able to get it as quickly as possible is very important, the crossbow in this case give your patient burst healing in exchange for less uber in return. Now as for the vaccinator, yeah that thing is complete bs and needs some kind of nerf or rework.
11:29 - 11:46 "I mean what is a support class supposed to do? Are they supposed to heal? Are they supposed to deal damage? Everybody's gonna give you a different answer and unfortunately that causes people to get really pissed off when they can't agree on a fundamental part of the class." --- . I think the biggest issue with this is the over saturation of characters in our games. When Overwatch and Paladins have 11 and 13 different supports respectively , there's only so many ways to heal. If healing is the only thing that they do, then picking whoever is mathematically better at healing is the obvious choice while they others would functionally not exist. This means the supports fundamentally need something else to do in order to be relevant - be that Ana's Biotic grenade to disable the enemy's healing or Rei's Spirit Link to charge allied Ultimates. . The extra required utility wouldn't necessarily be a problem, but when you have characters like Overwatch's Moira and Paladin's Lilith who are just that good at healing because it's all they do, it's quite easy to get and feel their value on a team. You will notice when your Moira's healing keeps you alive when you should have died, but will you notice Pip slowing enemies every 5-8 seconds? What about when Lifeweaver misjudges a situation and saves an enemy by pulling you away? For non-supports, especially those of lower skill levels or more casual consumption, a healing focus just makes more sense sense since it allows them to stand wherever they wan't and not die instantly, while supports that have to deal with those players may come to under value utility because nobody capitalizes on it and they get screamed at if they can't keep the oblivious tank who doesn't understand cover exists for them as well alive. . The TF team solved this by not flooding the game with a bunch of classes. Medic is Medic and he heals people is beautifully simple and makes his purpose quite easy to understand. Baptiste on the other hand can heal, deal damage, jump to off-angles, and make you temporarily immortal on a cool-down. In modern Hero-Shooters it can be hard to know what is the most important thing at any given moment, especially since supports in Overwatch and Paladins can get Ult charge from dealing damage where as Medic's Ubercharge - ignoring the ubersaw - can only be gained from healing. --- . I don't say this to call Overwatch and Paladins bad games. I actually really like the unique character defining abilities they have. I say this because as fun as they are, the necessary complexity to support all that causes friction among players with different values and understandings. TF2's Medic may be more boring to me personally, but his simplicity does better enable everyone to be on the same page on what each player's job is. Edit: Fixed Spelling error
I would say that a healer that does damage *(not a for a purpose of self-defense)* feels like a fundamental failure of that class design. I mean battle medic is a meme for a reason.
@@Berd-Wasted. I've seen my fair share of Moira diving the enemy's back line on repeat so I do understand where you're coming from, but I still can't can't say I 100% agree. . A Class/Hero/whatever should be designed to fulfill a specific purpose or solve a specific problem. Medic was designed to provide consistent mobile healing, and break stalemates with Ubercharge. Giving him a damage option would go against that design principle so it would be a very questionable decision, but thats not necessarily the case for other games with different mechanics and rule sets. . The Support and Healer roles tend to be very underplayed unless the development team does something to encourage their players to pick those roles. I mean we always here how nobody plays Medic in casual even though TF2 is 12v12 so imagine how barren the support player base would be in the 5v5 games of Overwatch and Paladins. With team composition being so much more important in those smaller team sizes and less "dice to role" on getting a healer in your match, a Heroes and Champions like Baptiste and Furia make sense, They're both Healer/Damage Hybrids that are able to keep a team healthy, while also being fun to play for the non support mains who end up getting stuck on that role. Unless she opts for more healing with "Solar Blessing", Furia's only healing ability is "Kindle Soul", which while decent single target healing, won't compete for the raw healing numbers a Ying or a Lilith can achieve so theiy're still valid as champions, and while I haven't played Overwatch recently I'd like to imagine Baptiste is the same in that regard. _(Sidenote: I do think Paladins is better designed in this aspect as an Overwatch damage main can just queue Support for faster games and kill stuff as Bap without healing where as Furia needs to maintain some level of healing if she wan't her full damage.)_ . As we move away from a healing focus and towards supporting with Utility I think a requirement for obsolete damage becomes even less necessary. Your Lucio's and Mei's (Yes I consider her a support) as well as as your Pip's and your Covus's should be threatening enough to set your team up for kills whether it be by buffing your team or debuffing the enemies. That does not mean Damages should be obsolete. Bastion's, Tyra's, Demoman's and the like should still be the kings of raw damage, but other players still need a presence on the field.
This is a thing that plagues modern gaming. I call it the Siege effect (since I think that game was completely ruined by this), but a lot of other games have been made signifficantly worse with the addition of characters till way past the saturation point. Basically instead of doubling down on a good and well-understood formula and refining the balance, they always feel the need to "freshen up the meta" a.k.a. frantically and randomly change shit and hope people don't realize and globally adopt the most broken and unfun strategy by the time the next update comes along and flips everything on it's head as well. It also is an excuse to do what I like to call the Apex effect which is making the new character always slightly overpowered so that people who spend money in the game to buy it on day1 have an advantage over people who are slowly unlicking it. Then when the new update comes along to add another character, they say some corporate horse shit along the lines of "We've really listened to your cries, and will be adjusting this character to feel more balanced" a.k.a. now we can't make money off of this guy, so we will remove the temporary buff and bring him to the state he was originally designed to be in. The games that do this are such utter bullshit and chaos and fights very rarely feel fair. This also happens in mobile games whish is why even with how fun and well designed Clash Royale was at launch I will never fucking play it again nomatter how much my little brother asks me to (and also why I will never play Brawl Stars) Same problem there. In the beginning there were like 20-30 cards. You could learn what each of them did, you knew exactly what counters what, but now there's like a bajillion, and they even have the retarded evolutions or whatever the fuck they're called ... *sigh* Why must they always ruin nice things ? It feels like literally all games designed nowadays are designed to be fun on day 1 (to the best of the devs abilities lol) but then once they have players, EVERY GODDAMN SUBSEQUENT DECISION is made for the purpose of MANIPULATING people to impulse-buy shit in the game AT THE EXPENSE OF GAMEPLAY QUALITY. THey always add this shiny new shit you gotta buy if you wanna do good, but never notice the inherrent value of that gameplay is now dogshit because noone will ever say "man, I lost fair and square, guess I better get on the grind and git gud" anymore. They all know it's bullshit. Like, as dumb as you think 12 year old kids are, you can just look at the memes to see what they think about your game. THey know it's all fucked and unbalanced and gets only worse with each update, but so long as some suckers keep buying the shiny new shit, the devs will keep doing that bullshit.
@@mihailazar2487 none of the siege characters existed purely to "shake up the meta" though. Mechanical reworks sure, but individual characters? I can't name a single one that was meta defining purely for the concept of their utility, but for the numbers on it. Kali, Ying, Finka and Lion come to mind, but they were only ever problems because their abilities did too much at the time. Each character has a unique niche which hadn't been done except for overlapping archetypes, but that would imply Blitz was the literal same character as shield Fuze. Suppose the only characters who exist purely to "shake up the meta" would be Jackal and Caviera, but those characters were close to release.
A friend of mine used to be into OW and he's said the same thing. Movement tools and a capacity to defend yourself as a healer is wild, and he looked to just have better game feel/flow. Now he mains Medic. While he laments his ability to fight, I find him healing, trying dumb shit, or just sitting in his doctors chair for the funny.
Wait... really? I main Medic and I main pretty much the entire support category in OW. If you want to fight as a healer pick Brigitte. I don't understand why the other supports can't participate in a teamfight given almost all of them have guns, and some pretty good ones too (Illari, Baptiste).
@@mariustan9275 I'm no OW expert, but I've seen a couple vids talking about OW'S history and balance and a common echo seems to be that Brigitte kinda makes the whole flow of the game unenjoyable. How their almost oppressive at how well they role compress support and offense.
I feel like the crossbow gets less complaints because it's both harder (no autotrack, forces off primary), and a miss usually ends in the pocketed player losing the fight, but also is below the 100 damage threshold so it's out DPSed by most damage classes
Was it? I haven’t been back to the game in awhile, as mostly I got disheartened when even my dumbass could think about how it could be better, how is the state of the game now? Is it still going even somewhat well?
@@jackgeorge9478it's quite decent at the moment, tanks got more endurance, several heroes got upgraded, you don't have to crawl at 10 hp to a medkit to heal and you can play all heroes without strings.
Kinda confused on the crossbow. I have never seen anyone complain about its impact on the game, just that it outclasses every other medic primary as it basically adds to your healing instead of stopping it. Having burst healing on a slow (but passive) reloading weapon that has a decently slow projectile means you have to skill shot most of the time to get those burst heals. That is excellent design. You dont really think to yourself when a medic saves a teammate by getting a clutch shot bolt “hey you stole me from my kill” you think, “damn that medic just clutch that out from a great distance” the lazy purple clip was definitely a joke because hitting a scout trying to dodge pipes is a lot harder than what its shown. That’s basically one of those god clips you see on a montage. If the other medic primaries had something like that the crossbow would see more competition. Oh and on the vac, you forgot to specify that its 10% passively while healing which breaks a lot of thresholds, and then the uber is 75% on demand and you can still charge uber during one which makes it spammable. Its more so the spamming of ubers but the passive sucks too.
Decently slow? It's the third fastest in the game only being beaten by sandman, wrap assassin, cleaver, manmelter and huntsman. Plus not to mention it uses the bounding box as the target so it's easier than normal to hit people. And given most of the time low health targets are just gonna hold the S key makes them more predictable. Like coming from a person who doesn't play medic that often... crusaders is not that hard to aim.
@@brimp4989 its not hard to aim up close, been there done that. Farther away where you get the bigger heals is where its a lot harder. Its still a skill shot for far range but its also extremely satisfying
@@brimp4989 thats where the crossbow is not as effective. Its has reverse ramp up so you will not being doing the clean 75 dmg you could be doing to enemies and for teammates you only to 50-75 if you are close.
@@Aegisdex the minimum the crossbow does is always 75 which allows to survive most damage sources unless it’s a direct pill or ramp up rocket. The burst healing ruins the whole dynamic of the slow but not too slow heal rate. There’s almost no downside to trying to go for a crossbow whenever available mid fight because for 1.5 seconds spent not holding the medi beam you heal a total of 3 seconds from the medi beam. And no the possibility to miss does not reduce its power that much. Like medic does not need an option to heal more efficiently when he already has a game winning mechanic.
It's more that most hero shooters are designed after mmo/moba healer archetypes than something that fits better in a mechanically skill based game like a shooter.
Forgot to mention the increased healing after 10 sec of not taking damage, would have added to your point. It Increases the medics effectiveness after a fight while not erasing the other guy's progress
I've gone ahead and watched the clip, and by the gods, that pyro got so lucky with not getting the phlog bug. (Basically if a medic is healing before the taunt and pops diring it, or latches an ongoing uber before the taunt starts, once the taunt ends that pyro will loose the uber effect until medic resets the beam, incurring the flashing penalty on uber duration)
What I especially love about medic is that he doesn't only have healing for his teammates, but for himself too. That speaks so much for his character. There is no other healer that comes close to the creativity or fundamentality of Dr. Ludwig.
I like Zenyatta in OW cause he's a sweet spot of super passive and engaging. He becomes more tactical. Who to place his heal and who to weaken while still having to be in line of sight for it to last. Allowing him to be offensive while still supplying the healing role and gameplay like the medic. A good compromise for a much more action focused game. His ultimate is also a good compromise. Making himself invulnerable but only rapidly healing his team. He can turn an assault, but the assault can overpower his efforts. Putting the blame on his team and not him as he did all he was supposed to.
The *worst* implementation of healing I've ever seen is Paladins' version. In Paladins, there are lots of healers, but the main mechanic is called Anti-healing (formerly Cauterize). Anti-healing reduces the amount of healing a healer does by a set percentage based on how long the game has gone on for. It starts at 10% and goes up to 85%. It only applies in combat, and for about a second after taking damage. This is awful because it basically says "don't heal in combat" which is when all the damage is taken (Did I mention that there are lots of fire/poison debuffs and a lot of automatic weapons to proc this effect constantly?). Essentially, healers that pull all of their chips in healing are punished for playing the game. Meanwhile, there is no 'anti-damage' to speak of, so picking a high damage healer, or just another damage character is better. Yeah, you'll throw the first two rounds, but then the enemy's healers get hit with a -65% healing debuff and your team wins. Then it's -75% next round, and you steamroll even harder.
Oh yeah i renember the Paladins days, playing tank was awful because playing anyone other than inara made you into a walking noodle with a shield, doesn't help that most of the dps punish you for being slow and your starter champion was freaking ruckus.
Just some thoughts. I think the video could have been shorter. Intro was too long. Also crit heals should have been introduced after talking about 24 being low. It more closely tied to the idea of keeping medic feeling impactful while not being frustrating to enemies(among other effects to game flow). It also introducing non aim skill to the class. Overheals should have been mentioned later. Another important factor of overheal is giving medic stuff to do when no one is hurt and is important for mobility. It encourages players to see health has something they trade for other advantages(usually positioning) rather than just a how are you fairing component. It also encourages medics to heal many players and not just pocket.
Can confirm, love playing TF2 Medic. The fact that the medigun is so easy to use makes it way easier to focus on positioning and map awareness, checking for spies, and being aware of flanks -- but the fact that it has a limited range means Medic is still in the thick of a fight, he's not just some backliner out of harm's way. He's allowed to spin around in combat to check the team's rear because the gun is easy to use, but he's got to watch for Sniper sight lines and sticky traps just like everyone else.
Maybe, as a general rule, one could say that support characters are more fun when they set up obstacles before the fight than when they negate things during the fight?
Meanwhile actual tf2 playerbase: Everyone looks at each other waiting who is going to HAVE to be medic.... I know medic has it's fans and it does have a fair amount of mains (thought I'm asuming competive and the simps at tumblr might have something to do with it) But it is fun when it works... but when the team doesn't help... uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
It honestly just depends on the team. No medic is really gonna play medic if the team is full of your stereotypical, sweaty, toxic soldier mains that will jump into the whole team, die, then yell at you for "not doing your job" while you're trynna live and build up uber needed for a push or were busy getting harassed by a frenchman, or busy trying to heal the rest of your team and not just this one guy.
I think the issue is that the medic is super important and essential as the guy who heals but also so mediocre when it comes to having to use that thing above his medigun. Yes the ubersaw is a meme and the medic is a crit machine but the srynge wants you so badly to not fight for yourself that is no wonder everyone likes the crossbow.
There is one game where that exists! Battlefield! The game where you can instantly revive dead players, and revive the same player and other players multiple times in a row!
I always enjoyed the quick fix as a medigun. It makes the sacrifice of overall overheal and invulnerable Uber with a boost of healing rate and the Uber is a even faster heal. It is excellent for big team pushes were you know your team is a bit sub par compared to the enemy as you can in theory top of HP pools faster over multiple allies to keep several in the fight versus more often then not banking on a hail Mary play. There are instances were it can feel cheesey to face but it is a lot like the progressive healing that you see in like Fallout 4 were you have your true HP and your projected healing.
Its honestly where the the other two mediguns are really well rounded in tandem with stock. Kritzkrieg has a uber with no defensive use and puts the chips on wiping the enemy faster, even giving it a 25% faster uber rate to being a possible counter to stock, though the only issue with it in Pub matches is Random Crits doing its job with almost no downside. Quickfix on the otherhand gives you a faster heal rate, while theorhetically being better due to the 33.6 hps allowing you to outheal your hypothetical demo, but it takes away half the overheal so fights are not unfair and are just tougher. Which makes it a good sidegrade for getting everyone back on the frontlines faster, but getting outplayed by the other mediguns. And the topic of Crossbow and Vaccinator, the Crossbow should just have its heal burst drop to 60-120 health per shot like the rescue ranger nerf in Tough Break going from 75 to 60 building health, and Vaccinator should not get a faster ubercharge rate if blocking the correct damage and it should not be able to cycle resistances during an uber.
Tho with crusader's, it's at least not a hitscan, fast firing weapon with a scope like I unno Ana from Overwatch. Want to heal someone far away? Gotta earn it champ.
I will say that while the crossbow isn't op and requires skill to use because it's a PROJECTILE NOT HITSCAN (looking at you overwatch), It does heal alot more than I think it should at close range. This makes more of an overtuned weapon than an overpowered one in my opinion, because the syringe gun actually does pretty good damage meaning you sacrifice some of your already low survivability as a medic.
The Crossbow works because it's a slow weapon. Not only you had to pull it out, but you have to stop using the medigun to heal. If the Medic missed, it heals no one AND a waste of uber you could've gotten by healing with the medigun. The Rescue Ranger has a fast firing rate that having the heal nerfed be understandable. Nerfing the Crossbow when it's perfectly fine just annoys everyone for no reason.
@@janreiafrica Unfortunately its the defacto med weapon, its the best option over the syringe guns. They shouldnt need a buff, the crossbow itself is just too good, i just propose a 20% burst heal decrease so its still good, it's also not a obvious pick. Plus, yeah the rescue ranger is fast because you fire 4 consecutive shots before reloading on engineer, the class that has a shotgun for self defense.
@@Spiffyo The problem isn't that the crossbow is too good, it's how the rest of the options are just bad. If you're gonna fully dedicate yourself to healing, the syringes doesn't help with any of that. Even if the healing is nerfed, there would still be no reason to change to the syringes. Personally, it's better if the other weapons are buffed than nerfing an already good weapon.
Well imo Medic is still a MEDIC when supports in other game became dps with healing ability. This why i LOVE to play medic. Tbf this why i REALLY want Overwatch 2 to learn from TF2, since this will fix half of balance problems and will give more satisfaction in getting elims. This why Valve balance is a lot better than Blizz. Nice video btw, you made my day a lil better today, thanks.
Well healers don't only heal, their job is to keep their team alive which also counts as killing the enemy, However Healing is what they do the most not an offhand thingZenyatta isn't focused on healing he just heals and focuses on killing the enemy. Lucio contradicts his design by being able to go from flanker and area defender. Ana isn't really encourged much to focus more on her healing over the damage. Baptise is just a damage hero with utility. @@mariustan9275
As a medic main, I have to say he's the best. He's a legitimate threat, yet isn't agonizing to fight. And I think that comes down to how uber works. Unlike in overwatch( the best comparison I can think of), you lose all uber progress on death. This makes the invincibility/crits of uber to feal fair when it's used in the middle of a game, the effect was earned.
honestly do love playing medic, it's a nice mental reset when i just can't aim for whatever reason. it helps me tune my evasion while still being engaging enough to be fun with mechanics like crit heals and yes even the crossbows burst healing. for me the biggest issue with the crossbow is the reverse damage falloff, it works great to quickly heal up near death players when they actually stand still and look at you crouched like a puppy, i've experimented with rapid crossbow switches and yeah they are extremely effective from the combination pushing into that bs heal range. honestly i'm one of the few people who'd say nerf the crossbow while buffing the other syringe guns, even a change as simple as making the healing fall off with range and the syringe guns hitscan so their bullets can actually connect without needing to look above the person actively trying to kill you should be good to make them at least usable for beginner players, hell you could even make the crossbow heal enemies and it'd still be medics best primary simply because it's a support weapon on a support character. and the reason i say nerf the healing at range is simply the tell of there being a medic isn't there when they're at sniper range, hell the tell for a sniper isn't really there, it's a case of it being balanced but unfun, something as simple as making quickscopes deal 120 and charged scopes deal kess than 300 would allow classes to play the game and force snipers to prioritise higher value targets. i know that would make playing medic hell but we get 1 shot anyway.
Good video but when you talked about healing rates you failed to mention the quick fix. The entire purpose of that weapon is to quickly heal up targets and even still give them overheal even at a reduced rate.
as a medic main, I disaggree with the crossbow but aggree with the vaccinator. Yes it can be frustrating to fight a heavy in pubs with pocket medic and crosbow hits, but as in your video shown it doesnt really matter. Its a good addition to the medic to accelarate the game and give him some depth to his gameplay by having him to aim. And in combat its more reliable to just use your medic gun on diffrent targets. The crossbow is mainly used to heal targets who are out of combat.
If Valve had stuck with the coffeepot theme for the workshop item that became the Vaccinator, then it would have been designed differently mechanically, and we wouldn't be in this situation. It would also look better.
like a lot of other people, I agree with just about everything other than the Crossbow criticism. at all the ranges where the Crossbow can basically reset somebody to full health, it's difficult enough to land that seeing it happen to your opponent is just plain impressive. (it also makes Medic 2× as fun.)
Maybe not the best healer, but a damn interesting one: Wendaroo from Aarklash Legacy. A Gnoll (?) healer which heals the party through skillshots and generates mana by damaging her teammates, sort of balancing health across the party.
vaccinator uberchange concept: Instead of choosing a specific damage type, your ubercharge for the vaccinator shoots some sort of ubercharge rocket projectile. If the rocket hits an enemy player it will make that player unable to hurt the medic and pocket making them basically invincible to that player. The rocket would look like a critical hit ricket so there is no mistaking the effect & the Medic with the person in the medics care would look like they are ubercharged to the person hit with the rocket.
You didn't even mention crit heals, bro The medigun has another mechanic: If a teammate has avoided damage for an extended period of time, they can be healed at a much faster rate. This does not feel unfair to the enemy because anytime they have a direct confruntation with you and your patient, they will only get to see the base heal rate. But when you are helping your team recover from a fight they just won so they can push further, the medic becomes much more powerful, and camping around him until you get to an acceptable health level is signifficantly reduced. You are also incentivised to switch healing targets instead of just pocketing the same heavy/soldier, because that scout that just came from god knows where at 15 hp you can heal much faster than your current pocket, and you can easily get him back to full health without feeling like you are leaving your pocket in danger for an extended period of time. Moreover, the Uber rate is increased along with the heal rate, so if you want to get uber as efficiently as possible, you are rewarded to output the most HP to your team, which implies you frequently switch heal targets and prioritize low health players that have survived an encounter and run towards you for a quick heal (especially since critical health "E" screams are highlighted on your hud) Of course, only experienced medics will play like that, but it really is amazing how they mechanically incentivise you to not be a dick and "only heal your boyfriend" with this mechanic
All in all, i gotta say this is an excellent breakdown on why medic works and other supports/healers dont. However, it is of the utmost importance to keep in mind the way tf2 differs from other class-based shooters, which is the heavy emphasis on single shot weapons over sustain fire as well as the long TTK thanks to that and the way health is distributed amongst classes.
Personally, I think resetting Ubercharge every death was stupid, a single lucky shot frame any class can instantly rob you of your hard work, making Medic more annoying to play than Mercy is to fight. And speaking of which, as someone who started playing Overwatch on its official release (and dropped Blizzard entirely after the disappointing release of Overwatch 2 turning out to just be a cosmetic upgrade with no promised story mode, no promised single player and no real difference from the first game beyond appearance) this video is the first time I have ever heard of her being called annoying. I have heard other insults like "broken", "useless", "weak", "overpowered", "impossible to balance" and "easy and requiring no skill, to the point of there being no difference between a low bronze team's Mercy and an E-Sports team's Mercy"... But the fact that she's so easy to take off the board is part of why I have never heard her be called annoying before now, even by people who only play tank or only play DPS. "Annoying" tends to be reserved for more lethal healers like Moira, Brigitte and Lucio (who can all reliably get kills AND heal the team at the same time), at least from what I personally have seen back when I still cared about Overwatch.
I'm what you call a battle medic (or battle support) on MOBA and shooters. In tf2, while I do heal most the time. When I enter combat, usually no one in my team bats an eye or in cases some even are glad I was a battle medic. (same goes for Nana in Mobile legends and Ying in Paladins) But for OW2, yeah... the second I go battle mercy. I get shiz on by my team... And often times I just go play tank, since being a healer in such a game is not worth it.
There is another aspect you have to look at with other games. Medics in games like Mercy from Overwatch and the Combat Medic from the Battlefield series can revive. In tf2 when you get a pick against a player and then die, that player is dead. In other games, you have to hover over their corpse until they despawn or else an enemy medic can revive them. Although it isn't bad in Overwatch as there are only 6 players so you can at least TELL that there is a Mercy, in games like Battlefield; A squad of 4 medics is practically immortal. You are not picking against 1 person, you have to kill all 4 of them; if you kill 3 and die to the forth then all 4 of them are still alive because they will just get revived. The only thing that is at all close to how this is in tf2 would be the Kunai. Having revives in a game, invalidates having stealth, pick based classes like the spy. Being a player and having your progress ctrl alt deleted AFTER you win the fight is plain BS. Could you imagine if TF2 added a medigun whose ubercharge revives all players within medibeam distance. Having to retreat from a fight against a vaccinator sucks because it is a fight you know you wont win; against something like this gives a sense of false hope followed by immediate dread and unbridled rage. You didn't know there was someone who can invalidate your purpose before, whereas with the vaccinator you can at least tell by the resistance bubble. Team based FPS shooters lives and dies by the players ability to comprehend the non-verbal cues in combat. You know there's a stock Ubercharge on the soldier, he GLOWS VIOLENTLY. The Vaccinator gives the player the shield of go FK yourself that you can see at least. Having no warning about some idiot that kills you quickly, THEN REVIVES THE PEOPLE YOU MURDERED, ruins games really quickly. You cant tell that you cant win a fight in overwatch when ROBO MONK desides to turn a corner and remove your influence of doing damage to EVERYONE. In order for you to do such BS in TF2, you need to be the best quick-fix medic in all of TF2. And even then, you can still get headshotted or backstabbed during THAT ubercharge. The medics design in TF2, does not promote being offensive as all your ranged options are crap. With the exception of the Crossbow with inverse damage falloff and the 100% crit-rate ubersaw.
I think the reason why people don’t care about the crossbow is because everyone pretty much knows how hard it is to use effectively, even if you blind spam it it doesn’t really work. I’ve never seen anyone really criticise the crossbow before. The vaccinator is another matter, and while personally I’m ok with it I’ve seen a lot of people who really love/hate it.
id add to it that fundamentally medic in tf2 has also alot of MECHANICAL tricks to juggle if he so chooses that also enhances his gameplay... its NOT just "click and heal"... theres alot of nuance you can apply to the gameplay and hteres alot of "hidden" mechanics that you dont see in other games crit heals/flashing/surfing/uberbuilding/uberchecking etc
Overwatch and overwatch 2 have problems. There healers are anoying. Most games don't have mediks. While TEAM FORTRESS 2. Has the best medik character. Best mascot. Best generalists. Best pick classes... I mean valve has revolutionized this industry so much.... and tf2 just COMPLETELY destroying records!
I would say crossbow, despite having a burst heal option, still a lot harder to operate compared to the normal medic gun, because it take some skill to aim it to hit your teammate, especially if it's a long range shot, maybe nerf it's heal rate a little on close range shot is good enough so it's not some quickly shoot at your heavy for easy heal during pushes. While vaccinator, yea the shield is busted but... it's also really good against enemy team that spawn camp with a god sniper that can reliably land a headshot, or phlog pyro that have filled up the Mmmph meter and is trying to delete your team with a pocket medic, and it also requires you to have even greater situation awareness so you know when to pop which kind of shield, maybe reduce the ubercharge meter build rate could fix it? not sure about that.
11:25 to be fair TF2 it is already very toxic, its not just a tf2 medic is beloved becuase it was mastercraft and tf2 player are far more happy and respecteble becuase of it. Both games suffer from toxic community.
I love playing support. Medic is easily the best in all of the hero shooters I played, being so much fun. But I do love other kinds of support aswell. Like the engineer in DRG
My only gripe with the medigun is just how long overheal lasts for being such a big health buff. Patients you've healed in the past will continue having a direct advantage in their future 1v1 interactions for up to 15 seconds later, while the medic has no active input on it
you know im seeing a lot of people complain in the comments about crossbow, and if im following the logic here correctly i feel like the obvious option here is to just... make crit heals apply to the crossbow. i think it would still be nice if hitting a crossbow shot IN COMBAT healed a *little* bit more than having the medi gun out for the time necessary to swap to it and back, since it would reward good aim and use of the crossbow, and having it heal its usual 75 out of combat so you can patch up teammates outside of the fight faster, but with the nerf, you'd be able to avoid stuff like the lazy purple clip. of course, i think there are bigger issues with tf2 combat balance than the crossbow, but if they get around to it, i dont think it could hurt. like another person said, removing autoreload would also not be a bad idea, since that would force you to use it as an actual BURST heal instead of just a supplement to your normal healing. both of these i think would work. also the other syringe guns have the problem of. being syringe guns first and foremost. though blut and overdose i definitely think are close to being viable or on par with crusaders with these nerfs and perhaps small buffs to them. can't really fix stock tho! lol
I wanted to say something about uber charges, stock and the krizkreg causes panic to the enemy team, its big and bright and deadly and fighting one is a adrenaline rush of damage control, fighting a vac uber is just "wow i can no longer damage the heavy because i am playing pyro and didn't equip a shotgun" its just not fun for really either party.
Yeah I really enjoy playing Medic, but I don't use the Vaccinator (except when I was fighting bots, it's handy against them) because I find the Vaccinator to be a little too OP, and it feels like I get cheap wins.
The overheal allows the medic to stop focusing on one person because the medic has that guarantee that "oh that guy is overhealed, i can ignore him for a few minutes and heal this guy"
yk, I never understood why people started hating me once I got a hang of the vaccinator until I played THAT game, and the vacc still has more ways to counter it than certain things in THAT game.. and by that game I mean suzuwatch 2 edit bc I'm stupid and forgot the reason I was commenting: great video, I have a new channel to binge
the Crossbow is a very well-designed weapon because 1. It has much worse self-defense capability than the syringe guns 2. Hitting clutch crossbow bolts mid-fight takes A LOT OF SKILL (as a medic player I know) 3. It makes Medic fun to play and thus the other 8 mercs fun to play how dare you insult the crossbow i bet you're a closeted battle medic main >:(
I'd say the crossbow is balanced because it takes a LOT of skill to properly aim those shots like in the lazy purple vid. Its one thing to just fire one into a big mosh pit team fight. It's another to assess the fight and intentionally hit the person who would make the most impact toward victory. The vaccinator is just kinda BS. I think its unfun. And I actually main medic and pyro when I play TF2. I avoid it if I can. Stock is actually my favorite. The phlog is an interesting beast. It stomps casual but it's kind of crap if the enemy is any good. Airblast is vital for keeping your self and your team safe. I actually just run stock with the nostromo skin and usually a shotgun because its consistent. The really toxic weapon is actually the dragon's fury in the right hands but it requires aim and most people play pyro because aiming is not really required.
I feel like there should be a “you lost this much uuber” or “this many whole uubers” each death screen so that a medic that dies often and acts too aggressively would feel bad Also maybe to make the syringes a high risk high reward weapon that speeds up the speed at which his uuber is charged through damage
“Hello police? I’d like to report a ROBBERY!” - Lazypurple, after having a kill stolen because of burst healing Edit: I should really finish the video before I comment lol
![The Aggression Addiction [TF2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rHpJR653NAU/mqdefault.jpg)
I think another unmentioned part that makes the über-charge fun in contrast to ultimate from other games is that it heavily rewards killing the medic, if you cant kill their pocket but can get the medic you just saved your team later. Über being lost on death is one of the most engaging parts of tf2
Yes I agree 100%, it makes it vitally important for both enemies and teammates to keep track of any medics on their team, especially if they are running stock. Instead of being a “useless no skill support”, most tf2 players can agree that medic is one of the most important pieces of any decent team comp and that, because of his unlocks (crossbow) and the importance of staying alive to maximize the Uber, medic does actually have a decently high skill ceiling.
Its literally the meme of the guy in a suit with the text above saying
"I receive *X* and you receive *Y* "
I receive 1 enemy medic with Uber, you receive your medics killer.
@@thelordofthelostbraincellsor
"i receive uber"
"you receive spy ubered"
if uber/ultimate isnt lost on death for a healer class then im not playing it, thats such a bad design
Agreed. One of the greatest balancing acts is how to make a support class feel just as threatening as damage, even though they're effectively apples and oranges. If Medic can't make kills and his heals don't stop people from dying, then he's effectively half a class, just bring another damage dealer.
But the threat of Uber, and knowing it's lost on death, brings that sense of urgency. What's the medic doing? Who's he on? When did he last die? The fact that the support class is an actual threat and capable of being a siege breaker forces respect, despite the fact that a solo player could otherwise kill a medic and his patient 1v2 if they get some good shots off.
Decent vid but you forgot to mention critical healing, when a patient is not damaged for 10 seconds all medigun healing to them becomes greater up to 3x healing rate at around 15 seconds of being out of combat. This means medic can pay attention to who is first entering fight, has retreated, actively being damaged, etc and spread heals out. A heavy tanking damage is taking that base 24/s heal rate, but the demo that's about to run by has just respawned, you can slap him with a MASSIVE 72/s heal rate and get him overhealed before he turns the corner to fight the enemy.
True. I wish Overwatch had this, for Mercy at minimum.
I think skipping crit heals is justified in a video that doesn't talk about übercharge. a lot of players don't even know about crit heals.
@@mariustan9275i feel a lot of characters in overwatch need this, mostly zen.
Ok entirely zen
@@jackgeorge9478 Yeah. Or we implement the mirrorwatch chain that made it the more damage you deal the more healing you do. A good enough Zen could become a main healer.
Crit heals was cut because it didn't really relate to how it interacts directly with the enemy. Sure, crit heals is a result of not taking damage, but you don't ever keep track of it as the enemy.
I have never heard anyone complain about the Crossbow outside of that one LazyPurple clip before, and it's because he can't spam it. You only get one shot every 1.5 seconds. It's also a projectile, which makes long-range crossbow shots much less viable as well as making healing shots harder to hit. Contrast with Ana, who seems like a 1-1 of the Crossbow with her Biotic Rifle, but is more aggravating in practice because she has a scope and her healing shot is a hitscan bullet, so she can just hang back and heal somebody while you can't get to her. The Medi-gun's design is important in that it keeps Medic with his team, so even this level of extra healing is less aggravating than other characters because you can just shoot the Medic.
In anna's defense she's also one of the least mobile characters in the game in a game much more mobile and less commital with movement than tf2. Her design is also generally much more often used in things such as high mobility dive comps which are generally some of the more well liked metas due to her ability to actually heal when they leave her and such. She has protection abilities but theyre both trick shots to a degree and are moves you actively should not just be holding for protection all the time because they're really multipurpose and lose a lot of value just sitting there. Even her gun isnt an instant damage attack as its almost poison like iwth its rapid health drain effect and it cant headshot unlike most OW weapons. Unless she lands that sleep, lot of the character have the ability to kill her even if she would have killed them and even then not all of them are completely thwarted by sleep such as most dive tanks.
Sleep darts still pretty porblematic by tf2 standards given it's a stun but honestly by OW standards its one of the most fair CC moves in the game given its a sleep and damage wakes you up instead of just letting you sit there as they kill you. Nade used to be more fair but then OW2 single tanking happened and that's really put that ability into question since now you can constantly just dumpster the tank with it unlike before. A lot of anna's issues arent really "her" fault but more a fault of the general formats and mechanics of the game itself through the years I feel like. I feel if you tweeked her, changed sleeps affect to something non CC related, made her rifle affected by tf2 crit heals and sort of toned the overall heals down, and maybe play around with biotic grenade a little (though considering people are fine with something as crazy as jarate maybe not even) then a sniper type healer honestly would probably work decently in tf2.
By OW standards she's only one of the most well thought out supports, though thats not saying much considering some of the utter nonsense characters in that role.
Plus, when you die to someone who got across the map full healed, you can't help but admire the skill of the medic.
HELLO POLICE I’D LIKE TO REPORT A ROBBERY
On the same video is the SSSSQuad (god help me I cannot get it out of my head I hate it)
you are a pdf file
"not discussing Uber" proceed to shit on vaccanitor for it's Uber function
Rightfully so
75% is good defence though. Sure its hard to use but still
Almost like vaccinator couldn't be as influential in a organised push or fort breaking, was traded for being conditionally hard to kill consistently
i think it was more "i wont be focusing mostly on how uber is also a great part of the medigun'
i think its still fair to bring up how regular uber doesnt go against their points and how the vaccinator does
He didn't mention which uber, so maybe he just restricted it to stock uber. Even so, vac still give 10% resistance
The vid is mostly fine, but that Crossbow section I disagree with. As the Crossbow is a slow firing projectile, you still need skill to use it. Being farther to the patient gives more healing, but more likely to miss. Knowing when to use the Crossbow or stick with the healing beam needs balance. Even the Lazy clip you showed has the Medic predict where the Scout would jump to clutch the battle on Lazy. It wasn't just "press M1 on a teammate to give 140 health", it needed coordination to a teammate too busy fighting someone.
Valve intentionally made the Crossbow heal more in longer distances because the teammates who need that type of healing are those who are most likely to die and not make the Crossbow a "get out of death" free card when fighting at close range if it has a constant heal rate.
It is mostly just a GOOJFC though. Most maps are very claustrophobic making them naturally choke pointy. Therefor making crossbows easier to hit. Even with it being a medium reload it still is one of the fastest projectiles in the game. The amount of times I kept a heavy, soldier or demo alive because I kept pumping arrows into them at 20 health between medi beams is uncountable. The simple burst healing against projectiles and bullets that have fall off is what makes it OP.
Even still I feel like it needs some closer range nerfing, as flicking from crossbow to Medigun on an in-combat player significantly increases healing rates. Although keeping a heavy from the brink of death for 20s under fire may feel satisfying, I feel a little bad for the enemy when a medic combo of 2 decent players stomp a pub.
Not to mention if you have lots of people in one area, it’s so frustrating when I go to bolt a patient and scout eats that heal and consequently my patient dies. You gotta know when to shoot a bolt and heal. Like I saw on a video, if you miss your bolt just switch to the medi gun
People here finding problems where there are none...
@@panzerbanz7296 Nah there is problems.
it remined me how frustrating playing a support in Overwatch was
to be honest my best choice when i touch overwatch 2 was maining ana and lucio.
wise decision of my life.
to be honest my best choice when i touched steam was to never play overwatch 2.
wisest decision of my life.
@@Purplexic_TRUE
Tank players have it so much worse..
@@unusuariorandom9115 yeah, I mained Lucio. I think he's the closest to having fun as a healer
5:40 Rest in pieces Engi 💀
He had places to be namely the wall
@@drewbear471amazing comment 👌
I’ve seen comments mention crit heals, which triple your heal rate out of combat, but this is actually a crucial synergy with the rest of the features you note in the video.
Medic is not designed to fix mistakes, rather to prevent them. The slower heal rate in combat means that overheal is harder to obtain once the engagement begins and your healing should be spread to players *before* they decide to push in. Medic players have to pre-emptively decide between heal targets, since they can’t easily remedy their teammates’ mistakes in the moment.
This could also be why you have gripes with the crossbow and vaccinator. The crossbow gives burst healing with no ramp-up time, so it instantly removes progress from the other team and remedies a mistake made by your team or you. There’s a reason nobody tends to complain about the crossbow out of combat.
The vaccinator is much more reactionary than the other mediguns, since its ubercharge mechanic is much more prevalent than its heal mechanics. Crippling your overheal rate and Uber build on pocketed players means that you can’t really prepare for an engagement outside of spreading crit heals, and whether you win a fight entirely depends on your reaction speed compared to the enemy (unless of course, your team whiffs for 10 whole seconds).
Team Fortress 2's damage types are also usually burst damage, so healing also rewards both the accuracy of the enemy and the patient's ability to dodge.
It also punishes spam due to not only the low damage being healed off by the medigun but also allows the overheal to be broken and allow the medigun to build uber faster
Honesty I don't mind the crossbow breaking the medigun's "design pilers" by giving the medic burst healing. I think this because the crossbow has a lot of limiting factors that keep it in check. First of all, the crossbow has reverse damage falloff, meaning if you want to make the most out of the crossbows burst healing, you need to be much farther away from your patient where the crossbow bolts are much harder to hit, this raises medic's skill ceiling by giving you something to master. Another thing that keeps the crossbows burst healing in check is that the crossbow bolts doesn't give you that much uber when you heal someone with them, uber is one of the most powerful abilities in any first person shooter and being able to get it as quickly as possible is very important, the crossbow in this case give your patient burst healing in exchange for less uber in return. Now as for the vaccinator, yeah that thing is complete bs and needs some kind of nerf or rework.
11:29 - 11:46 "I mean what is a support class supposed to do? Are they supposed to heal? Are they supposed to deal damage? Everybody's gonna give you a different answer and unfortunately that causes people to get really pissed off when they can't agree on a fundamental part of the class."
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. I think the biggest issue with this is the over saturation of characters in our games. When Overwatch and Paladins have 11 and 13 different supports respectively , there's only so many ways to heal. If healing is the only thing that they do, then picking whoever is mathematically better at healing is the obvious choice while they others would functionally not exist. This means the supports fundamentally need something else to do in order to be relevant - be that Ana's Biotic grenade to disable the enemy's healing or Rei's Spirit Link to charge allied Ultimates.
. The extra required utility wouldn't necessarily be a problem, but when you have characters like Overwatch's Moira and Paladin's Lilith who are just that good at healing because it's all they do, it's quite easy to get and feel their value on a team. You will notice when your Moira's healing keeps you alive when you should have died, but will you notice Pip slowing enemies every 5-8 seconds? What about when Lifeweaver misjudges a situation and saves an enemy by pulling you away? For non-supports, especially those of lower skill levels or more casual consumption, a healing focus just makes more sense sense since it allows them to stand wherever they wan't and not die instantly, while supports that have to deal with those players may come to under value utility because nobody capitalizes on it and they get screamed at if they can't keep the oblivious tank who doesn't understand cover exists for them as well alive.
. The TF team solved this by not flooding the game with a bunch of classes. Medic is Medic and he heals people is beautifully simple and makes his purpose quite easy to understand. Baptiste on the other hand can heal, deal damage, jump to off-angles, and make you temporarily immortal on a cool-down. In modern Hero-Shooters it can be hard to know what is the most important thing at any given moment, especially since supports in Overwatch and Paladins can get Ult charge from dealing damage where as Medic's Ubercharge - ignoring the ubersaw - can only be gained from healing.
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. I don't say this to call Overwatch and Paladins bad games. I actually really like the unique character defining abilities they have. I say this because as fun as they are, the necessary complexity to support all that causes friction among players with different values and understandings. TF2's Medic may be more boring to me personally, but his simplicity does better enable everyone to be on the same page on what each player's job is.
Edit: Fixed Spelling error
I would say that a healer that does damage *(not a for a purpose of self-defense)* feels like a fundamental failure of that class design.
I mean battle medic is a meme for a reason.
@@Berd-Wasted. I've seen my fair share of Moira diving the enemy's back line on repeat so I do understand where you're coming from, but I still can't can't say I 100% agree.
. A Class/Hero/whatever should be designed to fulfill a specific purpose or solve a specific problem. Medic was designed to provide consistent mobile healing, and break stalemates with Ubercharge. Giving him a damage option would go against that design principle so it would be a very questionable decision, but thats not necessarily the case for other games with different mechanics and rule sets.
. The Support and Healer roles tend to be very underplayed unless the development team does something to encourage their players to pick those roles. I mean we always here how nobody plays Medic in casual even though TF2 is 12v12 so imagine how barren the support player base would be in the 5v5 games of Overwatch and Paladins. With team composition being so much more important in those smaller team sizes and less "dice to role" on getting a healer in your match, a Heroes and Champions like Baptiste and Furia make sense, They're both Healer/Damage Hybrids that are able to keep a team healthy, while also being fun to play for the non support mains who end up getting stuck on that role. Unless she opts for more healing with "Solar Blessing", Furia's only healing ability is "Kindle Soul", which while decent single target healing, won't compete for the raw healing numbers a Ying or a Lilith can achieve so theiy're still valid as champions, and while I haven't played Overwatch recently I'd like to imagine Baptiste is the same in that regard. _(Sidenote: I do think Paladins is better designed in this aspect as an Overwatch damage main can just queue Support for faster games and kill stuff as Bap without healing where as Furia needs to maintain some level of healing if she wan't her full damage.)_
. As we move away from a healing focus and towards supporting with Utility I think a requirement for obsolete damage becomes even less necessary. Your Lucio's and Mei's (Yes I consider her a support) as well as as your Pip's and your Covus's should be threatening enough to set your team up for kills whether it be by buffing your team or debuffing the enemies. That does not mean Damages should be obsolete. Bastion's, Tyra's, Demoman's and the like should still be the kings of raw damage, but other players still need a presence on the field.
This is a thing that plagues modern gaming. I call it the Siege effect (since I think that game was completely ruined by this), but a lot of other games have been made signifficantly worse with the addition of characters till way past the saturation point.
Basically instead of doubling down on a good and well-understood formula and refining the balance, they always feel the need to "freshen up the meta" a.k.a. frantically and randomly change shit and hope people don't realize and globally adopt the most broken and unfun strategy by the time the next update comes along and flips everything on it's head as well.
It also is an excuse to do what I like to call the Apex effect which is making the new character always slightly overpowered so that people who spend money in the game to buy it on day1 have an advantage over people who are slowly unlicking it. Then when the new update comes along to add another character, they say some corporate horse shit along the lines of "We've really listened to your cries, and will be adjusting this character to feel more balanced" a.k.a. now we can't make money off of this guy, so we will remove the temporary buff and bring him to the state he was originally designed to be in.
The games that do this are such utter bullshit and chaos and fights very rarely feel fair. This also happens in mobile games whish is why even with how fun and well designed Clash Royale was at launch I will never fucking play it again nomatter how much my little brother asks me to (and also why I will never play Brawl Stars) Same problem there. In the beginning there were like 20-30 cards. You could learn what each of them did, you knew exactly what counters what, but now there's like a bajillion, and they even have the retarded evolutions or whatever the fuck they're called ... *sigh* Why must they always ruin nice things ? It feels like literally all games designed nowadays are designed to be fun on day 1 (to the best of the devs abilities lol) but then once they have players, EVERY GODDAMN SUBSEQUENT DECISION is made for the purpose of MANIPULATING people to impulse-buy shit in the game AT THE EXPENSE OF GAMEPLAY QUALITY. THey always add this shiny new shit you gotta buy if you wanna do good, but never notice the inherrent value of that gameplay is now dogshit because noone will ever say "man, I lost fair and square, guess I better get on the grind and git gud" anymore. They all know it's bullshit. Like, as dumb as you think 12 year old kids are, you can just look at the memes to see what they think about your game. THey know it's all fucked and unbalanced and gets only worse with each update, but so long as some suckers keep buying the shiny new shit, the devs will keep doing that bullshit.
@@mihailazar2487 none of the siege characters existed purely to "shake up the meta" though. Mechanical reworks sure, but individual characters? I can't name a single one that was meta defining purely for the concept of their utility, but for the numbers on it. Kali, Ying, Finka and Lion come to mind, but they were only ever problems because their abilities did too much at the time. Each character has a unique niche which hadn't been done except for overlapping archetypes, but that would imply Blitz was the literal same character as shield Fuze.
Suppose the only characters who exist purely to "shake up the meta" would be Jackal and Caviera, but those characters were close to release.
the only healer i liked to play in overwatch was lucio, because you could actually be in a teamfight, like medic tf2
A friend of mine used to be into OW and he's said the same thing. Movement tools and a capacity to defend yourself as a healer is wild, and he looked to just have better game feel/flow.
Now he mains Medic. While he laments his ability to fight, I find him healing, trying dumb shit, or just sitting in his doctors chair for the funny.
Wait... really? I main Medic and I main pretty much the entire support category in OW. If you want to fight as a healer pick Brigitte. I don't understand why the other supports can't participate in a teamfight given almost all of them have guns, and some pretty good ones too (Illari, Baptiste).
@@mariustan9275 I'm no OW expert, but I've seen a couple vids talking about OW'S history and balance and a common echo seems to be that Brigitte kinda makes the whole flow of the game unenjoyable. How their almost oppressive at how well they role compress support and offense.
Mercy is super fun I think she’s probably the most fun character in overwatch yet ppl think she’s boring because they misunderstand how she’s played
That is correct Peter Griffin from the hit Family Guy that was originally a parody of a sitcom
5:14
B.R snuck in the sickest demo clip of the century and thought we wouldn't notice
HOLY [#&%@] THAT WAS [insanity]
I feel like the crossbow gets less complaints because it's both harder (no autotrack, forces off primary), and a miss usually ends in the pocketed player losing the fight, but also is below the 100 damage threshold so it's out DPSed by most damage classes
This interaction between Reinhart's ult and kiriko's Suzu was removed THANK GOD.
Was it? I haven’t been back to the game in awhile, as mostly I got disheartened when even my dumbass could think about how it could be better, how is the state of the game now? Is it still going even somewhat well?
@@jackgeorge9478it's quite decent at the moment, tanks got more endurance, several heroes got upgraded, you don't have to crawl at 10 hp to a medkit to heal and you can play all heroes without strings.
That argument on the healing rate for medigun is really good I never noticed it until now
Kinda confused on the crossbow. I have never seen anyone complain about its impact on the game, just that it outclasses every other medic primary as it basically adds to your healing instead of stopping it. Having burst healing on a slow (but passive) reloading weapon that has a decently slow projectile means you have to skill shot most of the time to get those burst heals. That is excellent design. You dont really think to yourself when a medic saves a teammate by getting a clutch shot bolt “hey you stole me from my kill” you think, “damn that medic just clutch that out from a great distance” the lazy purple clip was definitely a joke because hitting a scout trying to dodge pipes is a lot harder than what its shown. That’s basically one of those god clips you see on a montage. If the other medic primaries had something like that the crossbow would see more competition.
Oh and on the vac, you forgot to specify that its 10% passively while healing which breaks a lot of thresholds, and then the uber is 75% on demand and you can still charge uber during one which makes it spammable. Its more so the spamming of ubers but the passive sucks too.
Decently slow? It's the third fastest in the game only being beaten by sandman, wrap assassin, cleaver, manmelter and huntsman. Plus not to mention it uses the bounding box as the target so it's easier than normal to hit people. And given most of the time low health targets are just gonna hold the S key makes them more predictable. Like coming from a person who doesn't play medic that often... crusaders is not that hard to aim.
@@brimp4989 its not hard to aim up close, been there done that. Farther away where you get the bigger heals is where its a lot harder. Its still a skill shot for far range but its also extremely satisfying
@@Aegisdex Up close is where you're gonna be 90% of the game.
@@brimp4989 thats where the crossbow is not as effective. Its has reverse ramp up so you will not being doing the clean 75 dmg you could be doing to enemies and for teammates you only to 50-75 if you are close.
@@Aegisdex the minimum the crossbow does is always 75 which allows to survive most damage sources unless it’s a direct pill or ramp up rocket. The burst healing ruins the whole dynamic of the slow but not too slow heal rate. There’s almost no downside to trying to go for a crossbow whenever available mid fight because for 1.5 seconds spent not holding the medi beam you heal a total of 3 seconds from the medi beam. And no the possibility to miss does not reduce its power that much.
Like medic does not need an option to heal more efficiently when he already has a game winning mechanic.
Being an exception to a rule you popularized is...
I don't know what to say, I don't know what to feel either. That statement is, something.
It's like death of an author kinda like how Oasis really hated the kind of music that wonderwall spawned.
It's more that most hero shooters are designed after mmo/moba healer archetypes than something that fits better in a mechanically skill based game like a shooter.
Like the idea of popularizing, but not following the trend you started, while excelling at it. Idk that statement just feels like a power move to me.
Forgot to mention the increased healing after 10 sec of not taking damage, would have added to your point. It Increases the medics effectiveness after a fight while not erasing the other guy's progress
15:43
Not showing the rest of that clip of you saving that pyro is CRIMINAL
@@kopioshu i gotchu
ua-cam.com/video/O0SbD3MTRYk/v-deo.htmlsi=rCi8v0gA2EFXWJWM
@@b.r.207 yippee
I've gone ahead and watched the clip, and by the gods, that pyro got so lucky with not getting the phlog bug. (Basically if a medic is healing before the taunt and pops diring it, or latches an ongoing uber before the taunt starts, once the taunt ends that pyro will loose the uber effect until medic resets the beam, incurring the flashing penalty on uber duration)
What I especially love about medic is that he doesn't only have healing for his teammates, but for himself too. That speaks so much for his character.
There is no other healer that comes close to the creativity or fundamentality of Dr. Ludwig.
Finally another medic video that isn't a stat read of the mediguns 😭I loved this
15:43 oh they are COOKED
It's like a perfectly cut scream except it's a perfectly cut tf2 clip
I like Zenyatta in OW cause he's a sweet spot of super passive and engaging.
He becomes more tactical. Who to place his heal and who to weaken while still having to be in line of sight for it to last.
Allowing him to be offensive while still supplying the healing role and gameplay like the medic. A good compromise for a much more action focused game.
His ultimate is also a good compromise. Making himself invulnerable but only rapidly healing his team. He can turn an assault, but the assault can overpower his efforts. Putting the blame on his team and not him as he did all he was supposed to.
The *worst* implementation of healing I've ever seen is Paladins' version.
In Paladins, there are lots of healers, but the main mechanic is called Anti-healing (formerly Cauterize). Anti-healing reduces the amount of healing a healer does by a set percentage based on how long the game has gone on for. It starts at 10% and goes up to 85%. It only applies in combat, and for about a second after taking damage.
This is awful because it basically says "don't heal in combat" which is when all the damage is taken (Did I mention that there are lots of fire/poison debuffs and a lot of automatic weapons to proc this effect constantly?). Essentially, healers that pull all of their chips in healing are punished for playing the game.
Meanwhile, there is no 'anti-damage' to speak of, so picking a high damage healer, or just another damage character is better. Yeah, you'll throw the first two rounds, but then the enemy's healers get hit with a -65% healing debuff and your team wins. Then it's -75% next round, and you steamroll even harder.
Oh yeah i renember the Paladins days, playing tank was awful because playing anyone other than inara made you into a walking noodle with a shield, doesn't help that most of the dps punish you for being slow and your starter champion was freaking ruckus.
Just some thoughts. I think the video could have been shorter. Intro was too long. Also crit heals should have been introduced after talking about 24 being low. It more closely tied to the idea of keeping medic feeling impactful while not being frustrating to enemies(among other effects to game flow). It also introducing non aim skill to the class. Overheals should have been mentioned later. Another important factor of overheal is giving medic stuff to do when no one is hurt and is important for mobility. It encourages players to see health has something they trade for other advantages(usually positioning) rather than just a how are you fairing component. It also encourages medics to heal many players and not just pocket.
the video length seems fine
Can confirm, love playing TF2 Medic. The fact that the medigun is so easy to use makes it way easier to focus on positioning and map awareness, checking for spies, and being aware of flanks -- but the fact that it has a limited range means Medic is still in the thick of a fight, he's not just some backliner out of harm's way. He's allowed to spin around in combat to check the team's rear because the gun is easy to use, but he's got to watch for Sniper sight lines and sticky traps just like everyone else.
Maybe, as a general rule, one could say that support characters are more fun when they set up obstacles before the fight than when they negate things during the fight?
Meanwhile actual tf2 playerbase:
Everyone looks at each other waiting who is going to HAVE to be medic....
I know medic has it's fans and it does have a fair amount of mains (thought I'm asuming competive and the simps at tumblr might have something to do with it)
But it is fun when it works... but when the team doesn't help...
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
It honestly just depends on the team.
No medic is really gonna play medic if the team is full of your stereotypical, sweaty, toxic soldier mains that will jump into the whole team, die, then yell at you for "not doing your job" while you're trynna live and build up uber needed for a push or were busy getting harassed by a frenchman, or busy trying to heal the rest of your team and not just this one guy.
I mean I pick medic because carrying my team, and top-scoring, with over 20k healing feels great.
I think the issue is that the medic is super important and essential as the guy who heals but also so mediocre when it comes to having to use that thing above his medigun.
Yes the ubersaw is a meme and the medic is a crit machine but the srynge wants you so badly to not fight for yourself that is no wonder everyone likes the crossbow.
There is one game where that exists! Battlefield! The game where you can instantly revive dead players, and revive the same player and other players multiple times in a row!
I always enjoyed the quick fix as a medigun. It makes the sacrifice of overall overheal and invulnerable Uber with a boost of healing rate and the Uber is a even faster heal. It is excellent for big team pushes were you know your team is a bit sub par compared to the enemy as you can in theory top of HP pools faster over multiple allies to keep several in the fight versus more often then not banking on a hail Mary play.
There are instances were it can feel cheesey to face but it is a lot like the progressive healing that you see in like Fallout 4 were you have your true HP and your projected healing.
Me being an Overwatch player, I can confirm what a hell it is to be a support And how impossible it becomes to kill an enemy being healed
Its honestly where the the other two mediguns are really well rounded in tandem with stock.
Kritzkrieg has a uber with no defensive use and puts the chips on wiping the enemy faster, even giving it a 25% faster uber rate to being a possible counter to stock, though the only issue with it in Pub matches is Random Crits doing its job with almost no downside.
Quickfix on the otherhand gives you a faster heal rate, while theorhetically being better due to the 33.6 hps allowing you to outheal your hypothetical demo, but it takes away half the overheal so fights are not unfair and are just tougher. Which makes it a good sidegrade for getting everyone back on the frontlines faster, but getting outplayed by the other mediguns.
And the topic of Crossbow and Vaccinator, the Crossbow should just have its heal burst drop to 60-120 health per shot like the rescue ranger nerf in Tough Break going from 75 to 60 building health, and Vaccinator should not get a faster ubercharge rate if blocking the correct damage and it should not be able to cycle resistances during an uber.
Tho with crusader's, it's at least not a hitscan, fast firing weapon with a scope like I unno Ana from Overwatch.
Want to heal someone far away? Gotta earn it champ.
I will say that while the crossbow isn't op and requires skill to use because it's a PROJECTILE NOT HITSCAN (looking at you overwatch), It does heal alot more than I think it should at close range.
This makes more of an overtuned weapon than an overpowered one in my opinion, because the syringe gun actually does pretty good damage meaning you sacrifice some of your already low survivability as a medic.
The Crossbow works because it's a slow weapon. Not only you had to pull it out, but you have to stop using the medigun to heal. If the Medic missed, it heals no one AND a waste of uber you could've gotten by healing with the medigun.
The Rescue Ranger has a fast firing rate that having the heal nerfed be understandable. Nerfing the Crossbow when it's perfectly fine just annoys everyone for no reason.
@@janreiafrica Unfortunately its the defacto med weapon, its the best option over the syringe guns. They shouldnt need a buff, the crossbow itself is just too good, i just propose a 20% burst heal decrease so its still good, it's also not a obvious pick.
Plus, yeah the rescue ranger is fast because you fire 4 consecutive shots before reloading on engineer, the class that has a shotgun for self defense.
@@Spiffyo The problem isn't that the crossbow is too good, it's how the rest of the options are just bad. If you're gonna fully dedicate yourself to healing, the syringes doesn't help with any of that. Even if the healing is nerfed, there would still be no reason to change to the syringes.
Personally, it's better if the other weapons are buffed than nerfing an already good weapon.
Well imo Medic is still a MEDIC when supports in other game became dps with healing ability. This why i LOVE to play medic. Tbf this why i REALLY want Overwatch 2 to learn from TF2, since this will fix half of balance problems and will give more satisfaction in getting elims. This why Valve balance is a lot better than Blizz. Nice video btw, you made my day a lil better today, thanks.
I agree with this. I don't know if I'm bad but I have an easier time getting eliminations as support rather than as DPS.
Well healers don't only heal, their job is to keep their team alive which also counts as killing the enemy, However Healing is what they do the most not an offhand thingZenyatta isn't focused on healing he just heals and focuses on killing the enemy.
Lucio contradicts his design by being able to go from flanker and area defender.
Ana isn't really encourged much to focus more on her healing over the damage.
Baptise is just a damage hero with utility.
@@mariustan9275
the healthpack from team fortress classic was really annoying since if u didnt have a medic the best way to not have the contagion effect was dying
very well edited video, good work
As a medic main, I have to say he's the best. He's a legitimate threat, yet isn't agonizing to fight. And I think that comes down to how uber works. Unlike in overwatch( the best comparison I can think of), you lose all uber progress on death. This makes the invincibility/crits of uber to feal fair when it's used in the middle of a game, the effect was earned.
honestly do love playing medic, it's a nice mental reset when i just can't aim for whatever reason. it helps me tune my evasion while still being engaging enough to be fun with mechanics like crit heals and yes even the crossbows burst healing. for me the biggest issue with the crossbow is the reverse damage falloff, it works great to quickly heal up near death players when they actually stand still and look at you crouched like a puppy, i've experimented with rapid crossbow switches and yeah they are extremely effective from the combination pushing into that bs heal range.
honestly i'm one of the few people who'd say nerf the crossbow while buffing the other syringe guns, even a change as simple as making the healing fall off with range and the syringe guns hitscan so their bullets can actually connect without needing to look above the person actively trying to kill you should be good to make them at least usable for beginner players, hell you could even make the crossbow heal enemies and it'd still be medics best primary simply because it's a support weapon on a support character.
and the reason i say nerf the healing at range is simply the tell of there being a medic isn't there when they're at sniper range, hell the tell for a sniper isn't really there, it's a case of it being balanced but unfun, something as simple as making quickscopes deal 120 and charged scopes deal kess than 300 would allow classes to play the game and force snipers to prioritise higher value targets. i know that would make playing medic hell but we get 1 shot anyway.
BASED MEDIC MAINS
Remember the "you should've picked mercy" Song by TLT? the whole song is about not wanting to pick mercy. I wonder why
Good video but when you talked about healing rates you failed to mention the quick fix. The entire purpose of that weapon is to quickly heal up targets and even still give them overheal even at a reduced rate.
Oh man next great thing to love tf2 my list will never end
as a medic main, I disaggree with the crossbow but aggree with the vaccinator. Yes it can be frustrating to fight a heavy in pubs with pocket medic and crosbow hits, but as in your video shown it doesnt really matter. Its a good addition to the medic to accelarate the game and give him some depth to his gameplay by having him to aim. And in combat its more reliable to just use your medic gun on diffrent targets. The crossbow is mainly used to heal targets who are out of combat.
Not a word about crit heals?!?!?! That's a fundamental and crucial part of the medigun's design!
there's a reason why everyone back in 2007 said "if you want to learn how to play the game, play medic"
Amazingly written and original video that shows information and perspectives I was not aware of previously? More of that waiter
If Valve had stuck with the coffeepot theme for the workshop item that became the Vaccinator, then it would have been designed differently mechanically, and we wouldn't be in this situation.
It would also look better.
5:50 Those viewmodels look absolutely vile
VR viewmodels, my beloved.
8:51 RED: CIVIL WAR.
like a lot of other people, I agree with just about everything other than the Crossbow criticism. at all the ranges where the Crossbow can basically reset somebody to full health, it's difficult enough to land that seeing it happen to your opponent is just plain impressive. (it also makes Medic 2× as fun.)
Maybe not the best healer, but a damn interesting one: Wendaroo from Aarklash Legacy. A Gnoll (?) healer which heals the party through skillshots and generates mana by damaging her teammates, sort of balancing health across the party.
vaccinator uberchange concept: Instead of choosing a specific damage type, your ubercharge for the vaccinator shoots some sort of ubercharge rocket projectile. If the rocket hits an enemy player it will make that player unable to hurt the medic and pocket making them basically invincible to that player. The rocket would look like a critical hit ricket so there is no mistaking the effect & the Medic with the person in the medics care would look like they are ubercharged to the person hit with the rocket.
You didn't even mention crit heals, bro
The medigun has another mechanic: If a teammate has avoided damage for an extended period of time, they can be healed at a much faster rate. This does not feel unfair to the enemy because anytime they have a direct confruntation with you and your patient, they will only get to see the base heal rate. But when you are helping your team recover from a fight they just won so they can push further, the medic becomes much more powerful, and camping around him until you get to an acceptable health level is signifficantly reduced.
You are also incentivised to switch healing targets instead of just pocketing the same heavy/soldier, because that scout that just came from god knows where at 15 hp you can heal much faster than your current pocket, and you can easily get him back to full health without feeling like you are leaving your pocket in danger for an extended period of time. Moreover, the Uber rate is increased along with the heal rate, so if you want to get uber as efficiently as possible, you are rewarded to output the most HP to your team, which implies you frequently switch heal targets and prioritize low health players that have survived an encounter and run towards you for a quick heal (especially since critical health "E" screams are highlighted on your hud)
Of course, only experienced medics will play like that, but it really is amazing how they mechanically incentivise you to not be a dick and "only heal your boyfriend" with this mechanic
All in all, i gotta say this is an excellent breakdown on why medic works and other supports/healers dont. However, it is of the utmost importance to keep in mind the way tf2 differs from other class-based shooters, which is the heavy emphasis on single shot weapons over sustain fire as well as the long TTK thanks to that and the way health is distributed amongst classes.
The Finals Medi gun is fairly good at mixing combat and healing.
Personally, I think resetting Ubercharge every death was stupid, a single lucky shot frame any class can instantly rob you of your hard work, making Medic more annoying to play than Mercy is to fight.
And speaking of which, as someone who started playing Overwatch on its official release (and dropped Blizzard entirely after the disappointing release of Overwatch 2 turning out to just be a cosmetic upgrade with no promised story mode, no promised single player and no real difference from the first game beyond appearance) this video is the first time I have ever heard of her being called annoying. I have heard other insults like "broken", "useless", "weak", "overpowered", "impossible to balance" and "easy and requiring no skill, to the point of there being no difference between a low bronze team's Mercy and an E-Sports team's Mercy"... But the fact that she's so easy to take off the board is part of why I have never heard her be called annoying before now, even by people who only play tank or only play DPS.
"Annoying" tends to be reserved for more lethal healers like Moira, Brigitte and Lucio (who can all reliably get kills AND heal the team at the same time), at least from what I personally have seen back when I still cared about Overwatch.
thb I think Flats (an Overwatch Streamer) should see this Video
I think MediGun is based on the Medic beam from Starcraft,
Seems like a similar concept, but it probably originated somewhere else
I'm what you call a battle medic (or battle support) on MOBA and shooters.
In tf2, while I do heal most the time. When I enter combat, usually no one in my team bats an eye or in cases some even are glad I was a battle medic. (same goes for Nana in Mobile legends and Ying in Paladins)
But for OW2, yeah... the second I go battle mercy. I get shiz on by my team... And often times I just go play tank, since being a healer in such a game is not worth it.
Overhealing is definitely the single mechanic i love from tf2 the wider gaming space refuses to use.
Only complaint I can think of is getting ubered feels incredibly short and the enemies uber feels like an eternity lol.
GOod that you didn't mention ubercharge as the matter stands.. nothing can compare to the power of uber, at least 8 seconds that is.
There is another aspect you have to look at with other games. Medics in games like Mercy from Overwatch and the Combat Medic from the Battlefield series can revive. In tf2 when you get a pick against a player and then die, that player is dead. In other games, you have to hover over their corpse until they despawn or else an enemy medic can revive them. Although it isn't bad in Overwatch as there are only 6 players so you can at least TELL that there is a Mercy, in games like Battlefield; A squad of 4 medics is practically immortal. You are not picking against 1 person, you have to kill all 4 of them; if you kill 3 and die to the forth then all 4 of them are still alive because they will just get revived. The only thing that is at all close to how this is in tf2 would be the Kunai. Having revives in a game, invalidates having stealth, pick based classes like the spy.
Being a player and having your progress ctrl alt deleted AFTER you win the fight is plain BS. Could you imagine if TF2 added a medigun whose ubercharge revives all players within medibeam distance. Having to retreat from a fight against a vaccinator sucks because it is a fight you know you wont win; against something like this gives a sense of false hope followed by immediate dread and unbridled rage. You didn't know there was someone who can invalidate your purpose before, whereas with the vaccinator you can at least tell by the resistance bubble. Team based FPS shooters lives and dies by the players ability to comprehend the non-verbal cues in combat. You know there's a stock Ubercharge on the soldier, he GLOWS VIOLENTLY. The Vaccinator gives the player the shield of go FK yourself that you can see at least. Having no warning about some idiot that kills you quickly, THEN REVIVES THE PEOPLE YOU MURDERED, ruins games really quickly. You cant tell that you cant win a fight in overwatch when ROBO MONK desides to turn a corner and remove your influence of doing damage to EVERYONE. In order for you to do such BS in TF2, you need to be the best quick-fix medic in all of TF2. And even then, you can still get headshotted or backstabbed during THAT ubercharge.
The medics design in TF2, does not promote being offensive as all your ranged options are crap. With the exception of the Crossbow with inverse damage falloff and the 100% crit-rate ubersaw.
5:41 peak engineer gameplay
When I main Medic, I'd like to think myself as a helpful spectator who decides who live and die
The inevitable sound of guh guh guh guh from a tf2 player after seeing 1 pixel of overwatch
I think the reason why people don’t care about the crossbow is because everyone pretty much knows how hard it is to use effectively, even if you blind spam it it doesn’t really work. I’ve never seen anyone really criticise the crossbow before.
The vaccinator is another matter, and while personally I’m ok with it I’ve seen a lot of people who really love/hate it.
id add to it that fundamentally medic in tf2 has also alot of MECHANICAL tricks to juggle if he so chooses that also enhances his gameplay... its NOT just "click and heal"... theres alot of nuance you can apply to the gameplay and hteres alot of "hidden" mechanics that you dont see in other games
crit heals/flashing/surfing/uberbuilding/uberchecking etc
Ngl at least the crossbow requires some skill that's why it isn't that hated.
Overwatch and overwatch 2 have problems. There healers are anoying. Most games don't have mediks. While TEAM FORTRESS 2. Has the best medik character. Best mascot. Best generalists. Best pick classes... I mean valve has revolutionized this industry so much.... and tf2 just COMPLETELY destroying records!
15:43 you can almost taste the pure, gut-wrenching terror the two red players have there
I can confirm using the quickfix can save games
idk why, but I can't help but laugh at how funny your thumbnail is 🤣
I would say crossbow, despite having a burst heal option, still a lot harder to operate compared to the normal medic gun, because it take some skill to aim it to hit your teammate, especially if it's a long range shot, maybe nerf it's heal rate a little on close range shot is good enough so it's not some quickly shoot at your heavy for easy heal during pushes.
While vaccinator, yea the shield is busted but... it's also really good against enemy team that spawn camp with a god sniper that can reliably land a headshot, or phlog pyro that have filled up the Mmmph meter and is trying to delete your team with a pocket medic, and it also requires you to have even greater situation awareness so you know when to pop which kind of shield, maybe reduce the ubercharge meter build rate could fix it? not sure about that.
i think this also a reason why i consider medkit worser designed in phighting compared to vinestaff
overall great video
Right after he said "when your computer crashes in the middle of editing a video," the video started buffering for me.
11:25 to be fair TF2 it is already very toxic, its not just a tf2 medic is beloved becuase it was mastercraft and tf2 player are far more happy and respecteble becuase of it.
Both games suffer from toxic community.
I love playing support. Medic is easily the best in all of the hero shooters I played, being so much fun.
But I do love other kinds of support aswell. Like the engineer in DRG
My only gripe with the medigun is just how long overheal lasts for being such a big health buff.
Patients you've healed in the past will continue having a direct advantage in their future 1v1 interactions for up to 15 seconds later, while the medic has no active input on it
you know im seeing a lot of people complain in the comments about crossbow, and if im following the logic here correctly i feel like the obvious option here is to just... make crit heals apply to the crossbow. i think it would still be nice if hitting a crossbow shot IN COMBAT healed a *little* bit more than having the medi gun out for the time necessary to swap to it and back, since it would reward good aim and use of the crossbow, and having it heal its usual 75 out of combat so you can patch up teammates outside of the fight faster, but with the nerf, you'd be able to avoid stuff like the lazy purple clip.
of course, i think there are bigger issues with tf2 combat balance than the crossbow, but if they get around to it, i dont think it could hurt. like another person said, removing autoreload would also not be a bad idea, since that would force you to use it as an actual BURST heal instead of just a supplement to your normal healing. both of these i think would work.
also the other syringe guns have the problem of. being syringe guns first and foremost. though blut and overdose i definitely think are close to being viable or on par with crusaders with these nerfs and perhaps small buffs to them. can't really fix stock tho! lol
I wanted to say something about uber charges, stock and the krizkreg causes panic to the enemy team, its big and bright and deadly and fighting one is a adrenaline rush of damage control, fighting a vac uber is just "wow i can no longer damage the heavy because i am playing pyro and didn't equip a shotgun" its just not fun for really either party.
Doesn't say the ow abilities. *Plays the spy theme*
I acree with the points that you have made but, I believe that the medigun does not need aiming should have been talked about more.
Yeah I really enjoy playing Medic, but I don't use the Vaccinator (except when I was fighting bots, it's handy against them) because I find the Vaccinator to be a little too OP, and it feels like I get cheap wins.
The overheal allows the medic to stop focusing on one person because the medic has that guarantee that "oh that guy is overhealed, i can ignore him for a few minutes and heal this guy"
5:41 rip engie lmao
The Pinaka bubble in question:
your videos are really well made
yk, I never understood why people started hating me once I got a hang of the vaccinator until I played THAT game, and the vacc still has more ways to counter it than certain things in THAT game.. and by that game I mean suzuwatch 2
edit bc I'm stupid and forgot the reason I was commenting: great video, I have a new channel to binge
I use the stock medigun and this makes me proud to :)
Playing medic makes me yearn for the movement in Ow, but playing supports in ow makes me really miss ubercharge
FUCK, And overheal, like damn do I miss overheal when I play overwatch
It is impossible for the sniper to be less annoying than the crossbow
12:16 I think these could be forgiven a bit because they need a little more skill than normal to use effectively
Never have I ever heard anyone actually complain about the crossbow. The Lazypurple clip is a really obvious joke.
An obvious joke based on a real event; relevant enough to point out how it contradicts his "able to kill a scout in two clean shots" point.
the problem is, the crusaders crosbow, its the best medic offensive, its the only one I use, and most for self defense, and clutch long distance saves
the Crossbow is a very well-designed weapon because
1. It has much worse self-defense capability than the syringe guns
2. Hitting clutch crossbow bolts mid-fight takes A LOT OF SKILL (as a medic player I know)
3. It makes Medic fun to play and thus the other 8 mercs fun to play
how dare you insult the crossbow
i bet you're a closeted battle medic main >:(
I'd say the crossbow is balanced because it takes a LOT of skill to properly aim those shots like in the lazy purple vid. Its one thing to just fire one into a big mosh pit team fight. It's another to assess the fight and intentionally hit the person who would make the most impact toward victory.
The vaccinator is just kinda BS. I think its unfun. And I actually main medic and pyro when I play TF2. I avoid it if I can. Stock is actually my favorite.
The phlog is an interesting beast. It stomps casual but it's kind of crap if the enemy is any good. Airblast is vital for keeping your self and your team safe. I actually just run stock with the nostromo skin and usually a shotgun because its consistent. The really toxic weapon is actually the dragon's fury in the right hands but it requires aim and most people play pyro because aiming is not really required.
I feel like there should be a “you lost this much uuber” or “this many whole uubers” each death screen so that a medic that dies often and acts too aggressively would feel bad
Also maybe to make the syringes a high risk high reward weapon that speeds up the speed at which his uuber is charged through damage
most of the syringe guns are made to suck to discourage people from ignoring their team and going battle medic
It's all about having the bigger beam size.
“Hello police? I’d like to report a ROBBERY!”
- Lazypurple, after having a kill stolen because of burst healing
Edit: I should really finish the video before I comment lol