It's so frustrating when people suggest that you do something that they are doing, or that everyone else is doing. You make some of the coolest shit I've ever seen, keep doing YOUR own thing bro!
There is an old patent by one Tito Romagnoli for a "Sun-Heat Motor" (US Pat 1,785,685 of 16th Dec 1930), in which he used a similar setup with a medium similar to the Butane you use. Maybe, the patent is of some use to your project.
Your Videos Are EXCELLENT: -- Great Sound; Lighting, Camera Angles, Concepts, Scripting, Pacing, and Content. VERY REFRESHING change as you obviously put at least as much effort and craftsmanship into the quality of your videos as your main profession. Thank YOU!
Good Suggestion water can boil itsef at low pressure in vaccum and the whole system can be built inside vaccum chamber thus maintaing low pressure boiler.
A solar steam engine was used back in the 1800's to run a printing press for a newspaper. It is not new, but is lost knowledge. For your engine, simply drive a turbine or use an air tool substituting steam for compressed air. You'll go further, faster. If you are determined to boil butane, at least add an afterburner to make use of that energy as well. :)
I have been wondering about this for a long time too I have been told by someone that knows more about this than me but is by no means an expert that the big advantage of water is the huge amounts of energy needed for a phase transition also gives steam the properties that are desirable in steam engines. However, butane at 100 degrees should get up to 15 bar if i'm not mistaken, that seems very promising. PS, seems that you are Dutch. If you need something 3D printed for free hit me up, I'll gladly help in any way I can (sadly no lathe or cnc at my disposal).
Congrats on your success with this experiment! Should your solar steam engine prove successful then it will be huge in terms of the possibility of generating electricity for very low cost! Keep up the great work and posting videos!!!
I was also looking at using a steam style engine for a project, but it was to cool down a compressed gas actually, after quite a lot of research, I found that (for my project) the steam, engine wasn't super viable because of needing to get such low temperatures with the materials I was using.... I'm really inspired by the use of butane though... I'm really excited as to the energy storage potential, cheaper than batteries!
The Organic rankine cycle tents to have about 10 to 13% thermal efficiency if the engine have a isotropic efficiency in between 70 en 90% this wil be hard to get whit a piston engine
Nice experiment , this is almost the same as the cryophorous cycle! Qwestion, how do you plan to seal the engine from leaking butane gas out of the system, ar you going to put it in a tight chamber or something En how can you extract the mechanical power from it whitout leaking?
@@TheDIYScienceGuy ow Yahh I see because the organic rankine cycle have only positive pressure in the evaporator en in the condenser you don't have problems whit vacuum leaking as I do whit the same cycle whit water , although it might leak butane gas after a while this would be really unfortunate
@@TheDIYScienceGuy Maybe you just can put the alternator wire's true the casing so everything is sealed inside so you don't need a mechanical shaft to be outside
Yes, but I'm going to build the engine on to a bike and I want to drive it mechanically. I'm going to build a harly-davidson 1916 style bike powered by hot water!
Great project. Would it be viable to use 3D printed steam turbine generator (Tesla f. ex.) in the loop to create electricity? You might need to increase the disc size to get higher heat.
A fun concept would be to use geo as the cold side and solar as your hot side to cause a phase change in the refrigerant. Harness that power and we have a concept for a Rankine engine. :D
Interesting video, I have not thought of using butane as a working fluid before, seems dangerous, but I guess like all things if the proper care is taken it should be fine...
Your work inspires me. I was thinking about trying your low temperature rig with a thermal solar setup using the pressure to lift a balanced arm to the top of a swing and collect the energy off the fall. resetting the system to raise the arm again. If this didn't work I was thinking about using HHO and solar electric to accomplish the same thing. I'm not sure what the pressure can get up to with a few volts and a sealed container of water =) My goal would be to build a working piece of art for my yard so people can enjoy the mystery of science.
this is an awesome idea, i am trying to create hot water with solar for my sink, i have encased a black radiator inside a frame with plexiglass and insulated it, within 20 min of sun the water is too hot to touch which amazed me, hope your butane design works out, pls show how you will insulate the tank and with what material ?
Hi . as I understand for the engine to work the difference in pressure in the question, can you lay out the calculations? - the temperature is hot, and condensate, - what is the difference in pressure you plan to get - working volume of the engine, rpm - calculation of heat in water, - calculation of heat capacity of butane for evaporation - which will be the supply of energyenergy, in volume of water - interested in such a cognitive video
How will the butane be pumped from the low pressure tank to the high pressure tank that might be anywhere from 30-100 psi with small pump? Small Mechanical fuel pumps typically only go 5-10 psi. Really cool project trying to understand it fully.
great inspiering projekt. but in this case i don´t get the part of boiling. i googled, that butane is boiling at -1 °C. does condensating work because of any pressure change? are there any security issues with butane, like fire explosivety? Thanks
You should use a gas/liquid that boils at around 60°C so that you can condense the gas from the steam engine back into a liquid which then can be reused without using energy to condense it.
Well in a closed system you always need to condense it. The temperature range does not change that. Or do you mean that you do not actively have to cool the condenser? In an other video I will explain the the advantages and disadvantages of different working gasses. Thanks for the suggestion 👍
i like the idea but like, butane is volatile enough that you could get spontaneous ignition inside the cylinder like in a diesel engine, especially if decelerating under load, it'd compress the butane and potentially ignite it, that flash will likely get through the exhaust of the cylinder and get to the tank. so it's not only a good idea to evacuate all of the air from the system from an efficiency standpoint, but a necessity if you want to keep your engine as a steam engine, and not a combustion one! probably good if you want to keep your eyebrows, too.
I had not considered butane before - now I need to... seriously - I have been planning to do a Stirling engine project, and this is it. BtW. Just a guess, but I bet you could use a butane-propane mixture to produce higher vapor pressure at lower temperatures. Have you looked into that?
Stumbled upon your channel and like the experimental stuff you are doing. I have a question you may know or point me in the rite ri direction. Is there a simple way to pump out air from a chamber, to make lower pressure, that is driven from circular motion. Ie directory hook up motor to remove air from a container
The problem of having a lower boiling point means that you will need a bigger condenser, so it is really hard to make any changes on the fluid, although you could use an compressor.
Hi interested when there will be a video- about calculation working engine, pressure heat capacity propane. butane-propane mixture o produce higher vapor pressure at lower temperatures.... very interesting I'm waiting very much
I'm not able to do al those calculations myself but a friend of mine can, so maybe he will help me later. In that case I'll show them at some point in a video. Thanks!
Can the butane also condense in the bottle even when the room temp. (condenser temp.) is for example 25C° or higher, beqause of the pressure difference from the two different temperatures?
is there a way to have a constant flow boiler in a steam engine? Nuclear reactors constantly put in new water, but i have never seen a small boiler tank that can automatically top itself off as it lowers.
@@TheDIYScienceGuy i know its possible, i just have 0 idea how it would even theoretically work . Google seems unwilling to show me, even though it's decade old tech
You can add a small steam or electric pump to pump water in the boiler, but you'll have to add some electronic float that triggers a steam valve or switch. Hope it helps!
look at PEM-WE instead of alkaline electrolysers. much more efficient, even above 96% at 200mA/cm2, dropping to 70% above 1A/cm2 cathode deterioration via H2O2 is also avoidable with PtFe nanomaterials. PFSA as membrane, alternative are Nafion or AEM i haven't researched those.
Could a steam motor or Stirling engine drive a car alternator or generator motor?. Then the excess energy from alternator stored in battery while some of the other leftover energy used for lights in home or tv, etc? From sun to engine to alternator to battery and home use?
The butane will be the only gass in the system so that is like in a vacuum. But to really create a vacuum the temperature needs to be below minus 0.5 celcius.
A better, and still cheap, alternative to water as the thermal mass is Eco - PCM. Phase Change Material. You can buy in kg bulk amounts on alibaba. High quality and they hold more thermal energy per kg than water does. A potassium nitrate and sodium nitrate eutectic salt as the solar - thermal transfer fluid is also better. Have a reservoir for the cold molten salt, cycle it through the solar collection system, dump it into a storage tank that has an embedded PCM layer. Integrate water boiler into the molten salt "hot" reservoir. This will extract more thermal energy per m2 of surface area from due to the high heat capacity and low volatility of the salt mixture. Your water then only needs to be pumped between the "hot" reservoir and your point of use, instead of through the entire solar setup. Ideally use the PCM like a battery to store energy that the salt mixture gives off as it cools. This insulates and captures the "waste" heat and gives it back to a water pipe embedded into the PCM layer. You can make the system small and consolidated while increasing power and efficiency. Your butane steam engine is really great, i am a steam head myself and love the idea of re-creating a butane steam engine. Look forward to more!!
ideally i'd have two reservoir's for your solar-thermal system. The "cold" one just keeps the salt solid when not in use, or liquid when in use (eutectic though, so melting point is low, around 40 - 60°C). This bleeds heat off of the water thermo-syphon embedded in a PCM container, so no electricity is needed. Just stored heat. The liquid salt then travels through the solar concentrators and gains heat, up to 1,000°C depending on the amount of time the salt is gaining thermal energy and the concentration of thermalised photons from the sun. This hot salt then dumbs into a "hot" reservoir where it cools down and transfers heat to your desired point of use scenario. The cooler, but still liquid salt, is sent back to the cold tank once it's volumetric temperature is 50 - 75° above the melting point. In this kind of system, the salt tanks act as batteries. This means you only have to cycle the salt to "recharge" and you can use the steam engine at night and maybe for a few days in a row, without needing to cycle the salt again. Someone like you, could 100% build such a system for size you are already building.
Het water is puur voor warmte opslag. Kun je daar niet beter minerale olie voor gebruiken? Olie kan veel meer warmte opslaan en verdampt haast niet. Groetjes,, Kitty.
Olie heeft gemiddeld half de warmte capaciteit van water. Olie kookt wel bij een hogere temperatuur, maar dat betekend ook meer verlies via isolatie. Water is goedkoop en hoeft niet schoon te zijn dus bij elkaar is het voor mij de beste optie.
@@TheDIYScienceGuy Heb ooit eens bedacht om een olievat te nemen en daaromheen en overheen een water tank met koperen nagels in de water tank. Een hitte bron onder het olievat te zetten en zo een stoom motor aan te drijven. Als de hitte bron weg valt sta je niet metteen stil omdat de olie wel over de 200 graden celcius kan worden en in deze setup je niet zorgen hoeft te maken over verlies omdat de olie het water moet blijven verwarmen. Maar dit gaat niet op in jou solar systeem. Daar dacht ik niet aan.
Sand has a much lower thermal capacity then water. But you can heat sand to a higher temperature, but it will then be less efficient because of insulation issues. But good thinking! 👍
Wouldn't that vacuum be filed up with water vapour in time and therefore, would it at all be able to produce power if you also need to keep it under a vacuum?
@@TheDIYScienceGuy Say you have a closed system under partial vacuum, not a loop yet. Under a low pressure water's boiling point drops and some molecules go to the gas phase until the vapor pressure reaches an equilibrium for that temperature. Now when you heat the boiler, both temperature and pressure rise in the boiler. If you have a heat engine in between the boiler and condenser restricting the flow, you'll have a pressure differential allowing you to do work. In the condenser, steam gives up its heat to the condenser walls condensing the steam back to water, thus sustaining its low pressure. Now if you close loop it like you did with butane, It is identical except the working fluid and pressures are different. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankine_cycle "Power depends on the temperature difference between a heat source and a cold source. The higher the difference, the more mechanical power can be efficiently extracted out of heat energy, as per Carnot's theorem." So obviously, 100c to ambient difference, but 100, in theory you can alwase do work.
Yes you are right! The only question now is, in a range from 12 to 100C, will the pressure rise enough and will there be more condensation problems. Also corrosion, algae and mold could be a problem but with distilled and disinfected water that wouldn't be much of a problem I guess. It's a nice idea and I might give it a try. Thanks!
@@TheDIYScienceGuy This video is meant to be a parody of another idea but the physics demonstrated 1m 23s through 2m 58s is real ua-cam.com/video/hPM2vnV3SZM/v-deo.html There are tables of water's vapor pressure. www.msduncanchem.com/Reference_Tables/water_vapor_pressure_chart.htm For instance 15c = 1.71kPa ; 100c = 101.32kPa Pulling a vacuum on water will degas the water. Without oxygen or carbon dioxide, algae and mold can not grow. whatever the working fluid is, the real question is how much power can be had with a sub 100c to ambient temperature differential. That could be estimated, with the proper math, and might help answer the bigger question is it worth the effort.
@@TheDIYScienceGuy ua-cam.com/video/UhEDcvATHG0/v-deo.html Yup, same heat pipe technology described in my last comment, a boiler and condenser with water under a partial vacuum. except this one water in sealed copper pipe with the evaporator inside a solar collector evacuated- tube for insulation. I see snow outside. the guy says its -19c and he is getting 370f heat. a little better explanation. ua-cam.com/video/BGsmlIoiJN8/v-deo.html But NOOOOO they are not using alcohol as it reacts with copper. Water and acetone heat pipes work virtually equally well for thermal heat transfer but acitone is better for when temps may drop below 0c over night during the winter.
Yes that would work but keeping a vacuum is much harder than keeping something under pressure. Also, water condenses much more in droplets than butane does which creates more condensation problems in the steam engine, like in a normal steam engine. But thanks for the suggestion! 👍
Need to do the math for Temp variance, for many gases.. I thought of this idea years ago, but no way to test. Propane, butane, and many others have a short range in our Avg heat in the country.. it can naturally do this, with nothing special... NOW to make a closed loop that goes threw a motor.. Just like an Air conditioner..
It's so frustrating when people suggest that you do something that they are doing, or that everyone else is doing. You make some of the coolest shit I've ever seen, keep doing YOUR own thing bro!
There is an old patent by one Tito Romagnoli for a "Sun-Heat Motor" (US Pat 1,785,685 of 16th Dec 1930), in which he used a similar setup with a medium similar to the Butane you use.
Maybe, the patent is of some use to your project.
Ok that's interesting! I'll look in to it! 👍
I like the way you think! I wish there was 5 of you so we could learn and see more. Thank you!
Your Videos Are EXCELLENT: -- Great Sound; Lighting, Camera Angles, Concepts, Scripting, Pacing, and Content. VERY REFRESHING change as you obviously put at least as much effort and craftsmanship into the quality of your videos as your main profession. Thank YOU!
That's genious! Insted of trying to get the thing hot enough to vaporise water, use something that boils at a much lower temp!
Good Suggestion water can boil itsef at low pressure in vaccum and the whole system can be built inside vaccum chamber thus maintaing low pressure boiler.
I didn't think of that.. Brilliant, what would you try..I would go with Moonshine just don't have any kind of Spark..ever.
A solar steam engine was used back in the 1800's to run a printing press for a newspaper. It is not new, but is lost knowledge. For your engine, simply drive a turbine or use an air tool substituting steam for compressed air. You'll go further, faster. If you are determined to boil butane, at least add an afterburner to make use of that energy as well. :)
Well if I would also burn the butane that would not make it a solar steam engine so I'm not going to do that but thanks for the suggestions 👍
I have been wondering about this for a long time too I have been told by someone that knows more about this than me but is by no means an expert that the big advantage of water is the huge amounts of energy needed for a phase transition also gives steam the properties that are desirable in steam engines. However, butane at 100 degrees should get up to 15 bar if i'm not mistaken, that seems very promising.
PS, seems that you are Dutch. If you need something 3D printed for free hit me up, I'll gladly help in any way I can (sadly no lathe or cnc at my disposal).
Congrats on your success with this experiment! Should your solar steam engine prove successful then it will be huge in terms of the possibility of generating electricity for very low cost! Keep up the great work and posting videos!!!
I was also looking at using a steam style engine for a project, but it was to cool down a compressed gas actually, after quite a lot of research, I found that (for my project) the steam, engine wasn't super viable because of needing to get such low temperatures with the materials I was using.... I'm really inspired by the use of butane though... I'm really excited as to the energy storage potential, cheaper than batteries!
The Organic rankine cycle tents to have about 10 to 13% thermal efficiency if the engine have a isotropic efficiency in between 70 en 90% this wil be hard to get whit a piston engine
Great work. I simply glued 1 inch glass mirrors on a dish. Much more powerful than polishing...
Thanks! Yes that works great! Good work! 👍
You can also put 2 dishes side by side with same focal point. I want to find an 8 foot dish to put mirrors on.
👍
Nice experiment , this is almost the same as the cryophorous cycle! Qwestion, how do you plan to seal the engine from leaking butane gas out of the system, ar you going to put it in a tight chamber or something En how can you extract the mechanical power from it whitout leaking?
Thanks! Yes I'm going to put it in an polycarbonate chamber so I can still see it. The crankshaft will stick out trough an oil seal.
@@TheDIYScienceGuy ow Yahh I see because the organic rankine cycle have only positive pressure in the evaporator en in the condenser you don't have problems whit vacuum leaking as I do whit the same cycle whit water , although it might leak butane gas after a while this would be really unfortunate
Yes that is something I have to be very careful about.
@@TheDIYScienceGuy Maybe you just can put the alternator wire's true the casing so everything is sealed inside so you don't need a mechanical shaft to be outside
Yes, but I'm going to build the engine on to a bike and I want to drive it mechanically. I'm going to build a harly-davidson 1916 style bike powered by hot water!
Great project. Would it be viable to use 3D printed steam turbine generator (Tesla f. ex.) in the loop to create electricity? You might need to increase the disc size to get higher heat.
A fun concept would be to use geo as the cold side and solar as your hot side to cause a phase change in the refrigerant. Harness that power and we have a concept for a Rankine engine. :D
That mini wood 🪵stove is over the top!
Interesting video, I have not thought of using butane as a working fluid before, seems dangerous, but I guess like all things if the proper care is taken it should be fine...
You should try a Stirling engine if using heat from the Sun or any other heat source
Your work inspires me. I was thinking about trying your low temperature rig with a thermal solar setup using the pressure to lift a balanced arm to the top of a swing and collect the energy off the fall. resetting the system to raise the arm again. If this didn't work I was thinking about using HHO and solar electric to accomplish the same thing. I'm not sure what the pressure can get up to with a few volts and a sealed container of water =) My goal would be to build a working piece of art for my yard so people can enjoy the mystery of science.
Nice idea! Technical art is my favorite kind of art!
@@TheDIYScienceGuy Did you have a chance to give any thought on that email I sent?
@@cmontgomery5526 Yes, I just did! 😉
this is an awesome idea, i am trying to create hot water with solar for my sink, i have encased a black radiator inside a frame with plexiglass and insulated it, within 20 min of sun the water is too hot to touch which amazed me, hope your butane design works out, pls show how you will insulate the tank and with what material ?
Amazing!
So you are making a steam engine and a refrigerator. Nice.
Thanks! Yes it's a reverse heat pump.
This is very much like the way modern refrigerators use isobutane (R600a) - except backwards :D
Was this your inspiration?
No not the inspiration but I quickly saw that it's actually a reverse heat pump.
Hi
. as I understand for the engine to work the difference in pressure
in the question, can you lay out the calculations?
- the temperature is hot, and condensate,
- what is the difference in pressure you plan to get
- working volume of the engine, rpm
- calculation of heat in water,
- calculation of heat capacity of butane for evaporation
- which will be the supply of energyenergy, in volume of water
- interested in such a cognitive video
I'll try to answer your questions in the coming videos 👍
oi amigo,testou o tudo a vacum de aquecedor solar,esquenta mais que o coletor comum,é usado em ate churrasqueiras solar de camping ?
é muito difícil fazer um colecionador assim. é mais fácil colocar um painel extra
How will the butane be pumped from the low pressure tank to the high pressure tank that might be anywhere from 30-100 psi with small pump? Small Mechanical fuel pumps typically only go 5-10 psi.
Really cool project trying to understand it fully.
Thanks! Yes I will pomp it mechanically back into the boiler. I already have a pomp that can handle the pressure.
Can you recommend a source for information for producing the steam piston rings? It would be a great benefit to having an alternative to metal rings.
Yes, in this video I show how I made mine: ua-cam.com/video/s5Ud-FD33tI/v-deo.html
And this is the whole solar steam engine playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLTYlUGKLEk-E6MYragLDuytHid3MbX6xG.html
great inspiering projekt. but in this case i don´t get the part of boiling. i googled, that butane is boiling at -1 °C. does condensating work because of any pressure change? are there any security issues with butane, like fire explosivety? Thanks
Yes, it works very well, but at a much lower temperature than water. Leaks can be dangerous, of course, so ventilating well is important.
You should use a gas/liquid that boils at around 60°C so that you can condense the gas from the steam engine back into a liquid which then can be reused without using energy to condense it.
Well in a closed system you always need to condense it. The temperature range does not change that. Or do you mean that you do not actively have to cool the condenser? In an other video I will explain the the advantages and disadvantages of different working gasses. Thanks for the suggestion 👍
I use it as hot water, bath etc. 80% off the year 👍🖐
i like the idea but like, butane is volatile enough that you could get spontaneous ignition inside the cylinder like in a diesel engine, especially if decelerating under load, it'd compress the butane and potentially ignite it, that flash will likely get through the exhaust of the cylinder and get to the tank. so it's not only a good idea to evacuate all of the air from the system from an efficiency standpoint, but a necessity if you want to keep your engine as a steam engine, and not a combustion one! probably good if you want to keep your eyebrows, too.
I had not considered butane before - now I need to... seriously - I have been planning to do a Stirling engine project, and this is it.
BtW. Just a guess, but I bet you could use a butane-propane mixture to produce higher vapor pressure at lower temperatures. Have you looked into that?
Yes that is possible and I will do a video on that topic later. Thanks!
Stumbled upon your channel and like the experimental stuff you are doing. I have a question you may know or point me in the rite ri
direction. Is there a simple way to pump out air from a chamber, to make lower pressure, that is driven from circular motion. Ie directory hook up motor to remove air from a container
Thanks! Look up vane pump. I think that is what you are looking for.
@@TheDIYScienceGuy supper, I had a quick Google and seems to do what I hoped. Thank you :)
The problem of having a lower boiling point means that you will need a bigger condenser, so it is really hard to make any changes on the fluid, although you could use an compressor.
That's the challenge! 😁
Great idea!
Hi
interested when there will be a video- about calculation working engine, pressure
heat capacity
propane. butane-propane mixture o produce higher vapor pressure at lower temperatures....
very interesting
I'm waiting very much
I'm not able to do al those calculations myself but a friend of mine can, so maybe he will help me later. In that case I'll show them at some point in a video. Thanks!
Would you recommend any books that would help with learning the subject matter (thermodynamics/design concepts)?
No sorry. I "know" how these things work by watching tv, youtube, and by talking to smart people.
I'm sure butane is probably better for the environment than r22 or r134 as a working fluid.
why not a closed cycle tesla turbine? still runs on steam, efficient and easy to build.
Yes that is something I'm going to try later. Thanks for the suggestion! 👍
Can the butane also condense in the bottle even when the room temp. (condenser temp.) is for example 25C° or higher, beqause of the pressure difference from the two different temperatures?
Yes as long as the temperature on the boiler side is higher dan 25C.
awesome design
is there a way to have a constant flow boiler in a steam engine? Nuclear reactors constantly put in new water, but i have never seen a small boiler tank that can automatically top itself off as it lowers.
Yes, I think that would be possible.
@@TheDIYScienceGuy i know its possible, i just have 0 idea how it would even theoretically work . Google seems unwilling to show me, even though it's decade old tech
You can add a small steam or electric pump to pump water in the boiler, but you'll have to add some electronic float that triggers a steam valve or switch. Hope it helps!
look at PEM-WE instead of alkaline electrolysers. much more efficient, even above 96% at 200mA/cm2, dropping to 70% above 1A/cm2
cathode deterioration via H2O2 is also avoidable with PtFe nanomaterials. PFSA as membrane, alternative are Nafion or AEM i haven't researched those.
Could a steam motor or Stirling engine drive a car alternator or generator motor?. Then the excess energy from alternator stored in battery while some of the other leftover energy used for lights in home or tv, etc? From sun to engine to alternator to battery and home use?
Yes something like that would work but it's to expensive for commercial use. ☹
dude what if you put put it in a vaccum that will lower the boiling point
The butane will be the only gass in the system so that is like in a vacuum. But to really create a vacuum the temperature needs to be below minus 0.5 celcius.
Make a small pressure cooker or use the pressure cooker itself...
Stirling engines are really cool, sadly they just don't put out the power
man
i have to ask you if you have voice chat
But why not use salt?
Do you mean molten salt? That is very impractical for a home device. But thanks for the suggestion 👍
A better, and still cheap, alternative to water as the thermal mass is Eco - PCM. Phase Change Material. You can buy in kg bulk amounts on alibaba. High quality and they hold more thermal energy per kg than water does. A potassium nitrate and sodium nitrate eutectic salt as the solar - thermal transfer fluid is also better. Have a reservoir for the cold molten salt, cycle it through the solar collection system, dump it into a storage tank that has an embedded PCM layer. Integrate water boiler into the molten salt "hot" reservoir. This will extract more thermal energy per m2 of surface area from due to the high heat capacity and low volatility of the salt mixture. Your water then only needs to be pumped between the "hot" reservoir and your point of use, instead of through the entire solar setup. Ideally use the PCM like a battery to store energy that the salt mixture gives off as it cools. This insulates and captures the "waste" heat and gives it back to a water pipe embedded into the PCM layer. You can make the system small and consolidated while increasing power and efficiency. Your butane steam engine is really great, i am a steam head myself and love the idea of re-creating a butane steam engine. Look forward to more!!
ideally i'd have two reservoir's for your solar-thermal system. The "cold" one just keeps the salt solid when not in use, or liquid when in use (eutectic though, so melting point is low, around 40 - 60°C). This bleeds heat off of the water thermo-syphon embedded in a PCM container, so no electricity is needed. Just stored heat. The liquid salt then travels through the solar concentrators and gains heat, up to 1,000°C depending on the amount of time the salt is gaining thermal energy and the concentration of thermalised photons from the sun. This hot salt then dumbs into a "hot" reservoir where it cools down and transfers heat to your desired point of use scenario. The cooler, but still liquid salt, is sent back to the cold tank once it's volumetric temperature is 50 - 75° above the melting point. In this kind of system, the salt tanks act as batteries. This means you only have to cycle the salt to "recharge" and you can use the steam engine at night and maybe for a few days in a row, without needing to cycle the salt again. Someone like you, could 100% build such a system for size you are already building.
Thanks I'll look in to it! 👍
Het water is puur voor warmte opslag. Kun je daar niet beter minerale olie voor gebruiken? Olie kan veel meer warmte opslaan en verdampt haast niet.
Groetjes,, Kitty.
Olie heeft gemiddeld half de warmte capaciteit van water. Olie kookt wel bij een hogere temperatuur, maar dat betekend ook meer verlies via isolatie. Water is goedkoop en hoeft niet schoon te zijn dus bij elkaar is het voor mij de beste optie.
@@TheDIYScienceGuy ja is goedkoop idd maar isolatie moet extreem goed zijn. Ontzettend interessant!
Klop en bij lagere temperatuur heb je dus minder verlies dan bij hogere temperaturen.
@@TheDIYScienceGuy duidelijk :)
@@TheDIYScienceGuy Heb ooit eens bedacht om een olievat te nemen en daaromheen en overheen een water tank met koperen nagels in de water tank. Een hitte bron onder het olievat te zetten en zo een stoom motor aan te drijven. Als de hitte bron weg valt sta je niet metteen stil omdat de olie wel over de 200 graden celcius kan worden en in deze setup je niet zorgen hoeft te maken over verlies omdat de olie het water moet blijven verwarmen. Maar dit gaat niet op in jou solar systeem. Daar dacht ik niet aan.
Why not heat sand?
Sand has a much lower thermal capacity then water. But you can heat sand to a higher temperature, but it will then be less efficient because of insulation issues. But good thinking! 👍
Interesting
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Instead of butane under pressure in your boiler, what about water under a vacuum.
Wouldn't that vacuum be filed up with water vapour in time and therefore, would it at all be able to produce power if you also need to keep it under a vacuum?
@@TheDIYScienceGuy Say you have a closed system under partial vacuum, not a loop yet. Under a low pressure water's boiling point drops and some molecules go to the gas phase until the vapor pressure reaches an equilibrium for that temperature. Now when you heat the boiler, both temperature and pressure rise in the boiler. If you have a heat engine in between the boiler and condenser restricting the flow, you'll have a pressure differential allowing you to do work. In the condenser, steam gives up its heat to the condenser walls condensing the steam back to water, thus sustaining its low pressure.
Now if you close loop it like you did with butane, It is identical except the working fluid and pressures are different.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankine_cycle
"Power depends on the temperature difference between a heat source and a cold source. The higher the difference, the more mechanical power can be efficiently extracted out of heat energy, as per Carnot's theorem."
So obviously, 100c to ambient difference, but 100, in theory you can alwase do work.
Yes you are right! The only question now is, in a range from 12 to 100C, will the pressure rise enough and will there be more condensation problems. Also corrosion, algae and mold could be a problem but with distilled and disinfected water that wouldn't be much of a problem I guess. It's a nice idea and I might give it a try. Thanks!
@@TheDIYScienceGuy This video is meant to be a parody of another idea but the physics demonstrated 1m 23s through 2m 58s is real ua-cam.com/video/hPM2vnV3SZM/v-deo.html
There are tables of water's vapor pressure. www.msduncanchem.com/Reference_Tables/water_vapor_pressure_chart.htm
For instance 15c = 1.71kPa ; 100c = 101.32kPa
Pulling a vacuum on water will degas the water. Without oxygen or carbon dioxide, algae and mold can not grow. whatever the working fluid is, the real question is how much power can be had with a sub 100c to ambient temperature differential. That could be estimated, with the proper math, and might help answer the bigger question is it worth the effort.
@@TheDIYScienceGuy ua-cam.com/video/UhEDcvATHG0/v-deo.html Yup, same heat pipe technology described in my last comment, a boiler and condenser with water under a partial vacuum. except this one water in sealed copper pipe with the evaporator inside a solar collector evacuated- tube for insulation. I see snow outside. the guy says its -19c and he is getting 370f heat.
a little better explanation. ua-cam.com/video/BGsmlIoiJN8/v-deo.html But NOOOOO they are not using alcohol as it reacts with copper. Water and acetone heat pipes work virtually equally well for thermal heat transfer but acitone is better for when temps may drop below 0c over night during the winter.
Or you could just have a closed-loop vacuum system and work with degassed distilled water at 30C.
Yes that would work but keeping a vacuum is much harder than keeping something under pressure. Also, water condenses much more in droplets than butane does which creates more condensation problems in the steam engine, like in a normal steam engine. But thanks for the suggestion! 👍
Need to do the math for Temp variance, for many gases.. I thought of this idea years ago, but no way to test.
Propane, butane, and many others have a short range in our Avg heat in the country.. it can naturally do this, with nothing special...
NOW to make a closed loop that goes threw a motor..
Just like an Air conditioner..
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Using butane to create work to move a dynamo has got my imagination flowing. anyone have an elegant solution?
Ik heb net een "aha' moment voor mijn eigen kleine stirling.
Try using some aluminum beer bottles.
Thanks for the suggestion! 👍
What about a turbine?
Also on my list of things to DIY but that's even harder because of the high RPM. Maybe I'll make a tesla turbine.
Great idea!