@@gurururuwarararara8164 the point is that oberyn wins and if he didn't showboat, he just lives. Oberyn was very much so capable of killing him without dying, but tragedy is as it always is.
@@gurururuwarararara8164 The thing is it's pretty apparent what the gap between their martial prowess and Oberyn pretty much exceeded him in all but strength
@@gurururuwarararara8164 id say you are dumb because if you wwatch the movie you can clearly see Oberyn can kill mountain if he wanted to, its his arrogance and unawareness that lead to a sneak attack lmao
@@ratiounkn3210 not to mention Jamie Is dueling her whilst his hands are chained together. And if I’m not mistaken she’s in full plate mail and he’s in rags.
@@ratiounkn3210 yeah Jamie is starved, has spent months in a cage (so in really poor physical shape), chained up, and unarmoured. Brienne is basically fresh and in full plate and she's still stunned by his skill. If I remember correctly she even thinks that she'd have no chance if they were fighting on fair terms
Something often overlooked is Ned very nearly chops Jaime’s head off in their fight. This is for a few reasons mainly Jaime was mostly not fighting seriously because he didn’t believe Ned could have beaten Dayne, and secondly Ned isnt just a above average swordsman he’s a soldier through and through and he’s very experienced that one move probably ends most fights and you see Jaime’s eyes light up after he dodged it. Jaime realizes Ned’s much better than he though but that’s the thing with Ned he’s not an incredible swordsman he’s just a really damn good soldier
Ned is probably in the top 10 swordsman in the North... To be fair to Ned... Problem is there are excellent swordsman in other areas as well. But ya Ned does not get enough credit
I look at it a little differently. Ned was a great warrior, he just wasn't in the same league as guys like Dayne, Jaime and Selmy. No one was really. He was most likely among the best in that next tier after those three heavyweights. There were probably only a handful of other guys who could beat Ned one on one, like the Mountain, the Hound or Oberyn.
Yeah people forget that 2 of the people Ned Stark probably spared and trained with were; his big brother,( who went by the nickname of “the Wild Wolf”) And Robert The Goat Baratheon. Who he was best friends with since boyhood and probably trained with every day (and they trained under the watch of probably whoever the best trainers in the Eyrie were)
The year is 2087, and Liam and Tom just made a: Who Could and Couldn't Defeat The Mountain | Ultra, Mega, Super, All-Included, Director's Cut, Unrated, Bonus, Enhanced, Overhauled Edition.
Fighting Gregor is like fighting Mike Tyson. Everyone boxer knows how to fight Mr. Tyson, dance around him for the first 3 or 4 rounds and take advantage of his lack of stamina. The problem with that is: you have to go three rounds with Mike fucking Tyson, and he is smart enough to know what your plan is. Knowing how to do something and having the skill to do so are very different things.
...Reminds me of a quote out of a documentary on the Roman Empire moons ago, "A legion's shield wall will break a Gaul horde in five minutes, but the legion needs to hold for those five minutes."
Valyrian swords can cut through steel. Doesn't mean they cut through it like a hot knife through butter. It's still steel. You still gotta put their proper amount of effort into it. But pretty much every time when a steel sword meets a valyrian steel sword in a prolonged duel the normal sword is covered in nicks and dents while the valyrian steel remains pristine. So yes Vakyrian steel swords can cut into plate and wear it down.
You can also hammer plate until it loses its integrity. No one is going to just sit there and let you hack at them, and by the time you make it through, you'll be too exhausted to fight.
@@Kalenz1234 his point is it exactly what he said, no one is going to let you stand there and repeatedly hit their armor in roughly the same spot to get through it, and its incredibly unwise to remain with arms reach of the mountain, to say nothing of his thicker than normal armor.
@@Kalenz1234 That warhammers are more effective at hacking and with a valyrian steel sword, you would probably die of exhaustion before you properly hack or chop the full plate armour. What a warhammer does is blunt force, that can go through the armour and break your rubs even if the armour remains in tactm with a sword you do not have the weight or the power. If you use a valyrian steel in a prolonged dual to wear off plate armour and cut through it, it is probably more likely uou get so tired you die from a mistake, your better bet is to the nimble strategy of waiting for an opening.
@Kalenz1234 To knock them off balance and peirce the mail that fills the gaps, not just hit it till it dies. My point is that a supermetal wouldn't change armored combat that much. You can't get through a bronze breastplate with steel. Why would Valyrian steel be any different. And hammers and maces were more often used from horseback than on foot.
@@3esln that's a tough one I'm going to say yes because I do think the mountain could eventually overpower the mountain even with the mountains speed advantage on the mountain
@@eh3mmbut if the mountain could tumble over the mountain perhaps the mountain could stand a chance at toppling the mountain. That is, if the mountain happens to bring a slightly less optimal tool set for dealing with the mountain.
@@eh3mmYes you make a good point there good sir. The Mountain’s same ability skills and agility will come down to luck at the end so at the end of the day the mountain can kill the mountain Lol
@35:59 A wooden practice [sword], with 0 armor, against multiple armored opponents with real swords. Can't skimp on giving Syrio credit where credit is due!
His other opponents were fodder. The only opponent of note was Ser Meryn and he broke his wooden sword in two swings. I doubt it would be any different with Gregor.
Syrio admitted to arya that he wasn't the best water dancer, as the sea lord chosen him on his outstanding awareness. While the dothraki elite possess dragonbone bows that can peirce armor. Drogo in the books is written as an absolute unit, tall, compact muscle, perceptive eyes, a panther in human skin.
@@TheFightHubb His fighting style involves the use of Rapiers. Rapiers arent much use against full plate armour especially of the kind Gregor wears. Yes I am not saying Syrio cannot get lucky and find an opening in his eye slit or throat slit. But that is extremely unlikely. Especially considering Syrio is a short man and Gregor is the tallest Man in the 7 kingdoms.
@saptarshisengupta8235 the eyes lit isn't the only weak point in his heavy armor, and syrios been in kings landing long enough to get a reputation, he's had plenty of time to measure up the weaknesses of the westerosi fighting styles and equipment with his trade mark perception. Give him a real sword and I think he dances around the mountain before before taking him down at the joints, dancing away and letting him bleed put. He shows us this strategy in his one fight, it fails on trant because he lacks a proper sword. And as he Saya to Arya "All men are made of water, do you know this? When you pierce them, the water leaks out and they die"
@31:50 While we're on the topic of book-to-show differences, the show version of the Mountain (or at least the last and most-appearing version of him,) is 6 feet 9 inches tall, since that's how tall Hafthor Julius Bjornsson is. The book version of the Mountain, meanwhile, is EIGHT feet tall! So not only is the book version of the mountain even bigger, heavier, and stronger than the show version, but that extra ~15 inches of height means an even-greater reach advantage (7 or 8 inches, unless he's one of the people like Michael Phelps where his wingspan is greater (or lesser) than his height,) that opponents have to overcome
@4:22 "people prefer it when we reference the books." God yes, so so much. Not only because of the greater level of detail, but also because GRRM actually tells a good story, unlike D&D (see S7 and S8 for prime examples of what their writing is like with no GRRM to go off of,) and the books still have the potential to have a well-written ending
I dont know, when it comes to knowing how to fight big strong opponents, Ned did spend his youth sparring with Robert Baratheon in his prime. Who was probably the strongest fastest human in westeros at the time.
I still think Syrio would have a chance in that Bronn and Oberyn way. He's as smart as either of them, would have heard of Ser Gregor, and would know just how to beat him. The limitation would be his weapon, as you point out. The waterdancer sword is almost certainly a rapier. These evolved to be extremely deadly, probably the single best sword for a one-on-one duel ever made. But they evolved for exactly that--one on one, no armor, no shields, etc. So he'd be at a disadvantage there. But he's fast, he's extremely skilled, he's smart, and he knows both his capabilities and limitations. Gregor has the advantage, but I would never rule Syrio out as an automatic "no way he's winning," like I would, say, Jorah or Loras. Syrio would have a decent chance, especially if he somehow loaded the dice like Oberyn did with poison.
If you open this up to the entire Ice and Fire lore. I think Meagor, Daemon Blackfyre, Shandoq the shadow, and maybe Daemon Targaryen could take The Mountain.
Greatswords as battlefield weapons were designed to break the enemy's pole weapons at the shaft and usually used against formations. They weren't really designed as anti-armor or to be wielded as regular swords. Blunt weapons were, however, ideal for anti-armor. But, like greatswords, they were much lighter than their tv and movie counterparts. Also, some blunt weapons like warhammers, had two "sides" one in hammer form, ideally to bend the armor and make it easier to penetrate. And the other in a point shape to deliver a piercing blow to the already weakend armor.
One thing. It would be a quite a feat for Jamie, being about 6 feet tall, to stab someone in the eye who is 8 feet tall. Also, moves like that are made when the opponent is right next to you and the opponent is too close to use long blades effectively. But that would mean to be in a grabbing range of the mountain, and that's instantly bad news. That's why Oberyn stayed back, until made a mistake of not.
16:13 A battleaxe is useless against plate. Something that people need to understand is that you CANNOT cut through plate armour, even if you're the Mountain. A sword works because you can target the gaps, where there is only mail or perhaps no armour at all.
I suppose that what might be important is that some people are mismatched against very specific opponents. I think Oberyn was well suited to fight the mountain because he would never feel the weight of his massive blade. The mountain is deadly because if he hits you, you are screwed. Oberyn was just too fast to make contact. I think there are fighters fast enough to deflect oberyn and defeat his foot work who also couldnt defeat the mountain because they are trained to cross blades and his sheer strength when doing so would knock their weapon out of their hand. I think Jamie would struggle against the mountain but could probably take oberyn.
Oberyn beat him in a fair match of skill The only reason Martell lost is because he was hooked by his lust for vengeance & getting the Mountain to admit to his crimes And even then, Oberyn did actually kill him, but he was revived using dark magic
So lets leave out the dragons themselves....... I mean Vermax probably wins let alone Vaghar. In the "can do it" category I think Daemon and Criston Cole are the main 2 who can win. Aemond has a rep but he is a teenager who relies on his dragon to win. Other Kinsguards like the Cargylls might have a dog in the fight, but I think it is clear that Cole and Daemon are the top of the skill pile in the HotD era.
@@spacecowboy5486 we have limited info on Cregan at this time. But I messed up by ignoring Harwin. He is big, reasonably skilled and is known for his strength. Depending on how good he is in a real fight (I don’t count the fisticuffs with Criston as he didn’t really fight back) he may have a shot.
Thank you for mentioning Garlan Tyrell. He gets left out discussions way too much. I would also be interested in seeing how the book version of both Areo Hotah and Qhorin Halfhand would fare.
Ice was a ceremonial weapon, likely only to be used in combat by Gregor himself and maybe the GreatJon. Ned would have been well trained by the Master at Arms at Winterfell since childhood and had actual combat experience. Book Ned is nearly 15 years younger than show Ned as well. In the books Ned and Rodrik Cassel were sat on their asses in the training yard of Winterfell by Bronze Yohn Royce a 6'8 beast of a man said to be as big and strong as Sandor. Bobby B's Warhammer was the perfect weapon against Gregor. They are designed to cause massive concussive damage beneath armour. Bobby B's was the biggest Warhammer ever made, a massive 2 hander yielded by a 6'6 powerhouse. He would have had reach, leverage and power enough to do extreme damage even through armour as thick as Gregor's. Interesting fact, Hafthor Bjornsson weighed about 370-380 pound during the show and gets up to 440 during his powerlifting comps so he out weighs book Gregor by 20 pounds. That's a seriously large human being.
Am a hard-core Ned Stark fan and I agree with this judgement. I do believe though as a man of honor if he knew his family was at stake that he would kaioken like Goku.
Another thing to take into account is the height of opponents. People under maybe 6 feet would have a real problem hitting the mountain in the neck or through the eye slits, unless he is looking down at them (probably not a good place to be). On the other hand, anyone fighting in the time of plate armor would rarely not carry a sword as their main weapon. Halberds, and the like should be standard, or at least available to any professional warrior.
Curious how Daemon would fare. I'm a show-only guy so idk how skilled he's portrayed in the books, but he's a battle-hardened Targaryen with a Valyrian sword who can take on multiple enemies at once.
Personally if I had to choose someone who could beat the mountain it would probably be Maelys the Monstrous. From the feats we have I’d be fairly confident that he’s just as strong as Gregor (if not stronger) he has just as much savagery as Gregor and due to his time as a sellsword in the disputed lands there’s a good chance he has far more experience than Gregor. So basically Gregor’s going to be fighting a more experienced version of himself which is a situation he’ll be completely unprepared for. The only issue is that I’m genuinely not sure what Maelys’ standard gear is (I think he wears plate but I honestly can’t remember)
After finishing the first book, I asked my (now ex)wife if the Great John would have have been a match for the Mountain. She just laughed and said, "Nah, the Mountain would kill him."
Agreed with a lot of the analysis on armor and weapon choices...the problem with story armor is it ACTUALLY plot armor....it is as strong or as weak as the story demands.... Jonah vs the Bloodrider...they displayed how effective plate armor is..... 4 fully plated knights rushing The Hound down stairs right before the Clegane Bowl and he carves through them in one swing a piece.
Ser Barriston, for sure. He'd be a pretty smart bet against pretty much anyone. He could possibly lose, but you'd never be called stupid for betting on him.
syrios been in kings landing long enough to get a reputation, he's had plenty of time to measure up the weaknesses of the westerosi fighting styles and equipment with his trade mark perception. Give him a real sword and I think he dances around the mountain before before taking him down at the joints, dancing away and letting him bleed out. He shows us this strategy in his one fight, it fails on trant because he lacks a proper sword. And as he Says to Arya "All men are made of water, do you know this? When you pierce them, the water leaks out and they die"
Fight ideas 1.Tormund Giantsbane vs Khal Drago 2.Daeron I vs Oberyn Martel 3.Daemon Blackfyre vs Jaimie Lannister 4.The DragonKnight Aemon Targaryen vs The Dawn of the Morning Arthur Dane vs Christen Cole
Here's a cheaty one, Bran Stark. He was able to take control of Hodor, perhaps he could take control of Robert Strong. I know there'd be some competing magic and whatnot, but we never truly see what the upper limit of Brans warging powers are when it comes to people. I know Hodor is "simple", but I can't believe there's much left going on with Robert Strong either.
Greetings - just something to the waterdancer sword - it can either be a triangular rapier (a bloody deadly thing to use against gaps in armor) or an Estoc - a super slim Longsword that is designed to pierce.
I do wonder what would've happened if Loras was sent instead of Beric. I can't imagine the Tyrells would side with the Lannisters at all of Gregor killed Loras...
Prime Jaime, prime Barristan, Arthur Dayne, Oberyn, the Hound and probably that's it. I guess I would give Brienne, Drogo, prime Robert, prime Rheagar, Daemon, Criston Cole, Jon Snow, Bronn some chances but my money would be on the montain.
Loved this, seeing more quidditch and norbert would be awesome. Really like the idea of this pacing. Would love to hear your thoughts on the rest of the books!
Pls do How Littlefinger Could’ve Won the Game of Thrones, Ik u already did one about him as king but it would be interesting to see your interpretation of how he would get there
Not that I'm claiming Jorah would make a big chance, but I think you do him a little dirty and underestimate him. He's very skilled and smart, I would even put him and the mountain in the same category qua skill. But the mountain's strengt puts him miles ahead and Jorah doesn't have the speed, dark killer instinct, or guile in a fight to make up for it, so he's deff out
I think the one that beats the mountain the most comfortably (except for young bobby b) is probably Daario. He has peak human physique and is quite a bit taller than 6". He can block many of Gregors strikes and does not have to dodge everything. Add that to the fact that he has probably fought more 1v1 fights and (fights in general) than ANY fighter in the known world of ASOIAF and NEVER lost. He has probably faced a ton of enemies with comparable size and fighting type to the mountain. Id argue Daario is the strongest fighter in the whole ASOIAF story and the only one who beats even Arthur Dayne due to the fact that he probably fought to the death 3-4 times a week and spent the rest practising.
Depending on the Jaquen Hagar I think he could take the mountain. There’s most certainly a faceless man that could reliably dance around the mountain. They’re just a little too mysterious to know what he’s up to so one can’t really say confidently either way.
Sir twenty Goodman, Arthur dayne, the hound, barrister Selmy, 2 handed Jaime, Loras with a lance and a horse in heat, and honestly anyone with enough plot armor
I don't think he'll win but I think Rhagar Targaryen has a good chance, he knighted Gregor and thus knows him and he only lost to the legend that was Prime Bobby B. Also Brynden "the Blackfish" Tully, is a man that has a shot againt thr Mointain that Rides.
An honorable mention as someone who would win against Mountain atleast 7 out've 10 ten times, Sandaq the Shadow, he has the tools and armor and he was described as being able kill several men who were Kingsguard as well as Amaury Peake himself before something could touch the ground or something like that, though its definently hyperbole, I beileve he still has the speed advantage, and for surely has the experience advantage having fought in the Pits in Lys for majority of his life and being undefeated, even going against a slew of deadly creatures, a notable one being a Wyvern with his bare hands, and is close to the Mountains size, being estimated to be 7ft by most.
Ohhh! Love the scene from The Last Duel! I loved that movie even though I really think Adam Driver's character was innocent. Read into the story and it was impossible, in my equestrian opinion, for him to be at their castle that day unless he had arranged multiple horses along the very long way there that he could run top speed to near death before he got on the next one....one horse couldnt have gotten there that fast without collapsing. All that just to violate Matt Damon's characters wife and leave?what Idk. I think Damon's character was mad at him for receiving property he considered to rightfully belong to him and his wife. So they devised a scheme to kill Driver's character. Hes even recorded as telling the priest he went to see before he went to the duel that he did not have that sin to confess and repent for because he didn't do it, and to die without repenting of all your sins before death...well, they REALLY took that stuff seriously back then. He would've admitted it to the priest and asked forgiveness before going to a duel he knew he could possibly die participating in. The people of France at the time believed God would let the person telling the truth win. But we all know thats not how God works...
Much less known character but I wonder about that “Then” wildling, he had a massive double headed axe and was pretty psycho. The guy who Tormond said “I f***ing hate then’s” about.
These lists have made me realise that Robert Baratheon was actually pretty smart with his choice of weapon, even if it is oversized his hammer is great for dealing with plate armoured fighters and is very good at dealing with light or none armoured fighters. And i'm kind of curious why others don't use weapons like a Warhammer and maybe a Mace both were used but the knights the knights of Westeros are based on.
So the thing is the sword was never the main battlefield weapon in history. The spear was, with it's various combinations up to Poleaxes and Halberds. The sword was the backup weapon for everyone not in the Roman Legions who had a very specific tactic with their very short swords. Even knights tended to use essentially a spear in their lances. Hell even once guns became a thing the bayonet was basically a way to turn a gun into a spear. Swords on the battlefield became more useful in the 19th century when guns meant most soldiers forwent armour meaning their poor ability to penetrate it stopped being an issue. Their main value tended to be prestige before then, and that they make a decent defensive tool over other battlefield weapons. You can block with a sword better than an axe. In 1 on 1 fighting real warhammers and maces were very short range and so had limited utility against armour. By the time you were close enough to use them you had bigger problems. They also have issues with balance that make them hard to use by the nature of the weapon. What makes them useful is what gives them limits. Real knights going at it one on one tended to wrestle and use daggers for those reasons.
I've been watching a lot of medieval modern sword fighting and I like the theatrical big swings of the mountain but he would be a much scarier opponent realistically if he half handed but his style is more of a short sword
I think Syrio would Dance around the mountain tbh i get the disadvantages but he's definitely gonna have the athleticism and with a real sword with a good point his skills would show when he plunges it in the mountains helm
I still think Tyrion has a little lions chance at rolling around and chopping his legs until the mountain fell like I outlined in my suggestion (why not throw in some milk of the poppy to spike Greagor's wine first while we're at it) and now that I think about it this is Tywin's creation and favorite enforcer, it really adds up in favor of the demon monkey. Fight me!
Sandor, Younger Barriston, Young Robert, The Viper, Dayne, and Maybe Jamie, maybe Bronn. Gregor was a vicious brute. He’s got strength and durability maxed out. Sandor had the best chance, he has almost the same strength and durability, but is a better fighter than Gregor and is faster, and smarter.
For some of the well trained knights (Arthur Dayne) for example you could argue thatbif a longsword isnt the right weapon choice for this battle they are well trained enough in others
Video idea of the strongest fighters from every kingdom and who has had the most skilled fighter throughout history(kings guard would represent where they are from not the crown lands)
" This guy can beat the Mountain... because this guy DID beat the Mountain "
Hard to argue with that lmao
The thing is, Oberyn did beat the mountain, he did kill him, and Blood magic was used to revive him
@@Al4___ I'd say the fight between Oberyn and The Mountain ended in a draw
@@gurururuwarararara8164 the point is that oberyn wins and if he didn't showboat, he just lives. Oberyn was very much so capable of killing him without dying, but tragedy is as it always is.
@@brazzb761 Oberyn only managed to poison him thats about it.
@@gurururuwarararara8164 The thing is it's pretty apparent what the gap between their martial prowess and Oberyn pretty much exceeded him in all but strength
@@gurururuwarararara8164 id say you are dumb because if you wwatch the movie you can clearly see Oberyn can kill mountain if he wanted to, its his arrogance and unawareness that lead to a sneak attack lmao
When Brienne fights Jamie in the book she is pretty much in awe of his skill. Even though he had been a captive for so long prior to their fight.
Jamie also nearly kills Robb in the battle but he’s only stopped because his sword gets stuck in someone’s head after he cuts down like 15 guys
@@donovan4222Bro took out the majority of essentially what was Robb's Kingsguard.
@@ratiounkn3210 not to mention Jamie Is dueling her whilst his hands are chained together. And if I’m not mistaken she’s in full plate mail and he’s in rags.
@@ratiounkn3210 yeah Jamie is starved, has spent months in a cage (so in really poor physical shape), chained up, and unarmoured. Brienne is basically fresh and in full plate and she's still stunned by his skill. If I remember correctly she even thinks that she'd have no chance if they were fighting on fair terms
Point in Barristan's favor is that he literally did face his generations version of the Mountain, Maelys Blackfyre, and won.
Something often overlooked is Ned very nearly chops Jaime’s head off in their fight. This is for a few reasons mainly Jaime was mostly not fighting seriously because he didn’t believe Ned could have beaten Dayne, and secondly Ned isnt just a above average swordsman he’s a soldier through and through and he’s very experienced that one move probably ends most fights and you see Jaime’s eyes light up after he dodged it. Jaime realizes Ned’s much better than he though but that’s the thing with Ned he’s not an incredible swordsman he’s just a really damn good soldier
Better than a man at arms, worse than most champions.
@@perennem_equitem_57 that’s a pretty fair point to place him in terms of general power scaling.
Ned is probably in the top 10 swordsman in the North... To be fair to Ned... Problem is there are excellent swordsman in other areas as well. But ya Ned does not get enough credit
I look at it a little differently. Ned was a great warrior, he just wasn't in the same league as guys like Dayne, Jaime and Selmy. No one was really. He was most likely among the best in that next tier after those three heavyweights. There were probably only a handful of other guys who could beat Ned one on one, like the Mountain, the Hound or Oberyn.
Yeah people forget that 2 of the people Ned Stark probably spared and trained with were; his big brother,( who went by the nickname of “the Wild Wolf”)
And
Robert The Goat Baratheon. Who he was best friends with since boyhood and probably trained with every day (and they trained under the watch of probably whoever the best trainers in the Eyrie were)
8:25, Sandor did beat the Mountain, he just lived through the vital shots bc of what Qyburn did to his body after Oberyn poisoned him
Nvm I thought you were talking about Sandor plus Beric
The year is 2087, and Liam and Tom just made a: Who Could and Couldn't Defeat The Mountain | Ultra, Mega, Super, All-Included, Director's Cut, Unrated, Bonus, Enhanced, Overhauled Edition.
*Thom scribbles down the title idea for 2087* 😂
@@TheFandomeClipsI doubt I'll live long enough to see it but I look forward to seeing it 😂
release the Fandome Cut
And Martin has just released A Dream of Spring too.
😂😂😂😂deadass
Number 1 fighter who could beat The Mountain - a healthy Eddie Hall
Number 1 fighter who can't beat The Mountain - an injured Eddie Hall
Healthy Eddie Hall tried and failed. Not enough cranberry juice.
😂😂
I literally came here to look for Eddie comments.
@@TheStraightestWhitest You don't understand, he was very dehydrated!
@@LukasEhrlich Very very very... dehydrated.
Fighting Gregor is like fighting Mike Tyson. Everyone boxer knows how to fight Mr. Tyson, dance around him for the first 3 or 4 rounds and take advantage of his lack of stamina. The problem with that is: you have to go three rounds with Mike fucking Tyson, and he is smart enough to know what your plan is. Knowing how to do something and having the skill to do so are very different things.
Everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the face.
...Reminds me of a quote out of a documentary on the Roman Empire moons ago, "A legion's shield wall will break a Gaul horde in five minutes, but the legion needs to hold for those five minutes."
@@Jwsponky Yeah that wasn't too hard for them by the looks of it.
@@xtron1234 Eh... so so ish, they did eventually conquer the Gauls, but it wasn't a steamroll.
@@Jwsponky Read about like any pitched battle between Romans post-Marian reforms and the Gauls. 9/10 times the Romans completely demolish the Gauls.
I really wish we would've gotten at least one flashback of the battle of the trident. Seeing a fully balls to the wall Bobby B swinging that hammer.
It truly says something that the Mountain is the one opponent everyone else is compared against.
Valyrian swords can cut through steel.
Doesn't mean they cut through it like a hot knife through butter.
It's still steel. You still gotta put their proper amount of effort into it.
But pretty much every time when a steel sword meets a valyrian steel sword in a prolonged duel the normal sword is covered in nicks and dents while the valyrian steel remains pristine.
So yes Vakyrian steel swords can cut into plate and wear it down.
You can also hammer plate until it loses its integrity. No one is going to just sit there and let you hack at them, and by the time you make it through, you'll be too exhausted to fight.
@@potatolord2196 Yes, warhammers WERE used as a counter to plate armour. What's your point?
@@Kalenz1234 his point is it exactly what he said, no one is going to let you stand there and repeatedly hit their armor in roughly the same spot to get through it, and its incredibly unwise to remain with arms reach of the mountain, to say nothing of his thicker than normal armor.
@@Kalenz1234 That warhammers are more effective at hacking and with a valyrian steel sword, you would probably die of exhaustion before you properly hack or chop the full plate armour. What a warhammer does is blunt force, that can go through the armour and break your rubs even if the armour remains in tactm with a sword you do not have the weight or the power. If you use a valyrian steel in a prolonged dual to wear off plate armour and cut through it, it is probably more likely uou get so tired you die from a mistake, your better bet is to the nimble strategy of waiting for an opening.
@Kalenz1234 To knock them off balance and peirce the mail that fills the gaps, not just hit it till it dies. My point is that a supermetal wouldn't change armored combat that much. You can't get through a bronze breastplate with steel. Why would Valyrian steel be any different. And hammers and maces were more often used from horseback than on foot.
Fighting the mountain is like fighting a Dark Souls boss at a low level, sure you can do it, but a single slip will instantly kill you.
Can you do a game of thrones what if “ if Oberyn beat the mountain in Tyrions trial “
@@AlexMitchell-ct8tt I second that request
Nice topic.
I feel like Tyrion would still have flee the capital, to Dorne with Oberdyn
Oberyn himself wouldn't @@davidlewis5312
@@davidlewis5312 if Oberyn lived the sand snakes storyline also wouldn’t happen
“We’re sorry for the Bobby biase”
Me: HELL YEAH MORE BOBBY
The real question is... can a mountain beat the Mountain?
@@3esln that's a tough one I'm going to say yes because I do think the mountain could eventually overpower the mountain even with the mountains speed advantage on the mountain
@@eh3mmbut if the mountain could tumble over the mountain perhaps the mountain could stand a chance at toppling the mountain. That is, if the mountain happens to bring a slightly less optimal tool set for dealing with the mountain.
@@eh3mmYes you make a good point there good sir. The Mountain’s same ability skills and agility will come down to luck at the end so at the end of the day the mountain can kill the mountain
Lol
Could Hill of house blegange beat the mountain?
Hey Gregor... Stop hitting yourself
Other characters that can beat the Mountain are Lancel Lannister , Osmund Kettleback and even Moonboy for all we know
I wouldn't put it past Kettleblack
@@debater452 Hot Pie 🥧
_insert Captain America “I understood that reference” gif_
@@debater452 gods what a stupid name
@@TheStraightestWhitest Three cheers for the pie that was promised!
@35:59 A wooden practice [sword], with 0 armor, against multiple armored opponents with real swords. Can't skimp on giving Syrio credit where credit is due!
His other opponents were fodder. The only opponent of note was Ser Meryn and he broke his wooden sword in two swings. I doubt it would be any different with Gregor.
Syrio admitted to arya that he wasn't the best water dancer, as the sea lord chosen him on his outstanding awareness.
While the dothraki elite possess dragonbone bows that can peirce armor. Drogo in the books is written as an absolute unit, tall, compact muscle, perceptive eyes, a panther in human skin.
@@saptarshisengupta8235lmfao syrio obviously wouldn’t use a wooden fucking sword in a trial by combat🤦♂️
@@TheFightHubb His fighting style involves the use of Rapiers. Rapiers arent much use against full plate armour especially of the kind Gregor wears.
Yes I am not saying Syrio cannot get lucky and find an opening in his eye slit or throat slit. But that is extremely unlikely. Especially considering Syrio is a short man and Gregor is the tallest Man in the 7 kingdoms.
@saptarshisengupta8235 the eyes lit isn't the only weak point in his heavy armor, and syrios been in kings landing long enough to get a reputation, he's had plenty of time to measure up the weaknesses of the westerosi fighting styles and equipment with his trade mark perception. Give him a real sword and I think he dances around the mountain before before taking him down at the joints, dancing away and letting him bleed put. He shows us this strategy in his one fight, it fails on trant because he lacks a proper sword. And as he Saya to Arya "All men are made of water, do you know this? When you pierce them, the water leaks out and they die"
The only hypothetical fight that interests me is Maelys the Monstrous vs The Mountain
@31:50 While we're on the topic of book-to-show differences, the show version of the Mountain (or at least the last and most-appearing version of him,) is 6 feet 9 inches tall, since that's how tall Hafthor Julius Bjornsson is. The book version of the Mountain, meanwhile, is EIGHT feet tall! So not only is the book version of the mountain even bigger, heavier, and stronger than the show version, but that extra ~15 inches of height means an even-greater reach advantage (7 or 8 inches, unless he's one of the people like Michael Phelps where his wingspan is greater (or lesser) than his height,) that opponents have to overcome
@4:22 "people prefer it when we reference the books." God yes, so so much. Not only because of the greater level of detail, but also because GRRM actually tells a good story, unlike D&D (see S7 and S8 for prime examples of what their writing is like with no GRRM to go off of,) and the books still have the potential to have a well-written ending
Good to see all these combined into one video so I can just watch them all at one go
Ser Hugh of the Vale easily beats the fodder that is the Mountain
Tyland Lannister too. And Jason.
LMFAO!!!
I still can't watch the end of the fight of Oberyn and Gregor. It's too traumatic 😢
I dont know, when it comes to knowing how to fight big strong opponents, Ned did spend his youth sparring with Robert Baratheon in his prime. Who was probably the strongest fastest human in westeros at the time.
ned is too slow. Jiu Jitsu would need to exist in GoT for him to win
The three eyed Stark boy, Bran, enters into Gregor´s mind and makes him stab himself to death.
The Legend of Gin Alley, Karl Tanner
I still think Syrio would have a chance in that Bronn and Oberyn way. He's as smart as either of them, would have heard of Ser Gregor, and would know just how to beat him. The limitation would be his weapon, as you point out. The waterdancer sword is almost certainly a rapier. These evolved to be extremely deadly, probably the single best sword for a one-on-one duel ever made. But they evolved for exactly that--one on one, no armor, no shields, etc. So he'd be at a disadvantage there. But he's fast, he's extremely skilled, he's smart, and he knows both his capabilities and limitations. Gregor has the advantage, but I would never rule Syrio out as an automatic "no way he's winning," like I would, say, Jorah or Loras. Syrio would have a decent chance, especially if he somehow loaded the dice like Oberyn did with poison.
@@roentgen571 plus we never did see him die… 🤔
How about Tywin? He could simply order the Mountain to kill himself. Have you thought about that? No, you only think about yourself.
If you open this up to the entire Ice and Fire lore. I think Meagor, Daemon Blackfyre, Shandoq the shadow, and maybe Daemon Targaryen could take The Mountain.
Arthur Dayne as well as Barrister Selmy in his prime would have spanked the Mountain
Also, I would add Qhorin Halfhand, which became an even better swordsman after losing half of his hand and also Cregan Stark.
The one thing I’ll always love is when a flower took down a mountain in the first season in a joust.
Greatswords as battlefield weapons were designed to break the enemy's pole weapons at the shaft and usually used against formations. They weren't really designed as anti-armor or to be wielded as regular swords. Blunt weapons were, however, ideal for anti-armor. But, like greatswords, they were much lighter than their tv and movie counterparts.
Also, some blunt weapons like warhammers, had two "sides" one in hammer form, ideally to bend the armor and make it easier to penetrate. And the other in a point shape to deliver a piercing blow to the already weakend armor.
One thing. It would be a quite a feat for Jamie, being about 6 feet tall, to stab someone in the eye who is 8 feet tall. Also, moves like that are made when the opponent is right next to you and the opponent is too close to use long blades effectively. But that would mean to be in a grabbing range of the mountain, and that's instantly bad news. That's why Oberyn stayed back, until made a mistake of not.
16:13 A battleaxe is useless against plate. Something that people need to understand is that you CANNOT cut through plate armour, even if you're the Mountain. A sword works because you can target the gaps, where there is only mail or perhaps no armour at all.
I absolutly despise this old myth of plate armour being that cumbersome and slowing you that much down!
I suppose that what might be important is that some people are mismatched against very specific opponents.
I think Oberyn was well suited to fight the mountain because he would never feel the weight of his massive blade.
The mountain is deadly because if he hits you, you are screwed. Oberyn was just too fast to make contact.
I think there are fighters fast enough to deflect oberyn and defeat his foot work who also couldnt defeat the mountain because they are trained to cross blades and his sheer strength when doing so would knock their weapon out of their hand.
I think Jamie would struggle against the mountain but could probably take oberyn.
You forgot the most likely person to defeat the mountain. The one and only Hot Pie
bro…Wun Wun punching the mountain through the earths crust
Prime Bobby Baratheon vs prime Barristan Selmy- who wins???
Close fight but I’d personally bet on Bobby B. His warhammer and incredible skill with it is just such a perfect counter to just about any knight
Oberyn beat him in a fair match of skill
The only reason Martell lost is because he was hooked by his lust for vengeance & getting the Mountain to admit to his crimes
And even then, Oberyn did actually kill him, but he was revived using dark magic
You forgot that Victarion is unkillable. Even George can’t find a way to stop the Stump That Was Promised.
What about HOTD era characters versus the Mountain? Start branching this out lmaoo
@@mistplayzop candidates might be: Harwin, Daemon, Crispy Cole, Cregan and Sandoq the Shadow if he still counts
So lets leave out the dragons themselves....... I mean Vermax probably wins let alone Vaghar.
In the "can do it" category I think Daemon and Criston Cole are the main 2 who can win. Aemond has a rep but he is a teenager who relies on his dragon to win.
Other Kinsguards like the Cargylls might have a dog in the fight, but I think it is clear that Cole and Daemon are the top of the skill pile in the HotD era.
Daemon and criston would do the same as oberyn but I'm not sure about anyone else
@@spacecowboy5486 we have limited info on Cregan at this time. But I messed up by ignoring Harwin. He is big, reasonably skilled and is known for his strength. Depending on how good he is in a real fight (I don’t count the fisticuffs with Criston as he didn’t really fight back) he may have a shot.
@@mistplayzop Criston wins, everyone else gets buttblasted into the shadow realm. Daemon fanboys can cry now.
Hobo With a Shotgun vs The Mountain?
@@WhiteNoBeard471 what a reference
@@WhiteNoBeard471 why would you give the mountain a shot gun ....
Sharp in forecasting our hunger for ASOIF as Valyrian steel , my dear Friends . Excellent content as always 🍷
Clearly you forgot the most underrated knight in all of Westeros- Sir Pounce. The mountain may be big but legend has it he has a colossal cat allergy
The Pounce that was Promised!
Thank you for mentioning Garlan Tyrell. He gets left out discussions way too much.
I would also be interested in seeing how the book version of both Areo Hotah and Qhorin Halfhand would fare.
I had absolutely zero clue that it was beric in the first scene being told to search for the mountain, the actor changes really fuck me up in shows
Ice was a ceremonial weapon, likely only to be used in combat by Gregor himself and maybe the GreatJon. Ned would have been well trained by the Master at Arms at Winterfell since childhood and had actual combat experience. Book Ned is nearly 15 years younger than show Ned as well. In the books Ned and Rodrik Cassel were sat on their asses in the training yard of Winterfell by Bronze Yohn Royce a 6'8 beast of a man said to be as big and strong as Sandor. Bobby B's Warhammer was the perfect weapon against Gregor. They are designed to cause massive concussive damage beneath armour. Bobby B's was the biggest Warhammer ever made, a massive 2 hander yielded by a 6'6 powerhouse. He would have had reach, leverage and power enough to do extreme damage even through armour as thick as Gregor's. Interesting fact, Hafthor Bjornsson weighed about 370-380 pound during the show and gets up to 440 during his powerlifting comps so he out weighs book Gregor by 20 pounds. That's a seriously large human being.
Am a hard-core Ned Stark fan and I agree with this judgement. I do believe though as a man of honor if he knew his family was at stake that he would kaioken like Goku.
I am JUBILANT right now. Like "look mom I'm on TV". Thanks for including my suggestion:)
What about Daemon? I also think Tormund deserves more consideration given the proper amount of preparation 🤷♂️
Another thing to take into account is the height of opponents. People under maybe 6 feet would have a real problem hitting the mountain in the neck or through the eye slits, unless he is looking down at them (probably not a good place to be). On the other hand, anyone fighting in the time of plate armor would rarely not carry a sword as their main weapon. Halberds, and the like should be standard, or at least available to any professional warrior.
Such a fun video. Loved every second of it. Super entertaining content! Can't wait for the next vid.
Curious how Daemon would fare. I'm a show-only guy so idk how skilled he's portrayed in the books, but he's a battle-hardened Targaryen with a Valyrian sword who can take on multiple enemies at once.
...He would also have precisely zero qualms about 'cheating' and just sicing the fire breathing badger that is Caraxes on the Mountain.
Personally if I had to choose someone who could beat the mountain it would probably be Maelys the Monstrous. From the feats we have I’d be fairly confident that he’s just as strong as Gregor (if not stronger) he has just as much savagery as Gregor and due to his time as a sellsword in the disputed lands there’s a good chance he has far more experience than Gregor. So basically Gregor’s going to be fighting a more experienced version of himself which is a situation he’ll be completely unprepared for. The only issue is that I’m genuinely not sure what Maelys’ standard gear is (I think he wears plate but I honestly can’t remember)
After finishing the first book, I asked my (now ex)wife if the Great John would have have been a match for the Mountain. She just laughed and said, "Nah, the Mountain would kill him."
A worthy opponant would be the knight with two swords who fights ned in the flashback!
Arthur Dayne. He’s in this one ☝️ -Thom
@@TheFandomeClipssorry ,went right to the comments!lol
Agreed with a lot of the analysis on armor and weapon choices...the problem with story armor is it ACTUALLY plot armor....it is as strong or as weak as the story demands....
Jonah vs the Bloodrider...they displayed how effective plate armor is.....
4 fully plated knights rushing The Hound down stairs right before the Clegane Bowl and he carves through them in one swing a piece.
Ser Barriston, for sure. He'd be a pretty smart bet against pretty much anyone. He could possibly lose, but you'd never be called stupid for betting on him.
syrios been in kings landing long enough to get a reputation, he's had plenty of time to measure up the weaknesses of the westerosi fighting styles and equipment with his trade mark perception. Give him a real sword and I think he dances around the mountain before before taking him down at the joints, dancing away and letting him bleed out. He shows us this strategy in his one fight, it fails on trant because he lacks a proper sword. And as he Says to Arya "All men are made of water, do you know this? When you pierce them, the water leaks out and they die"
Fight ideas
1.Tormund Giantsbane vs Khal Drago
2.Daeron I vs Oberyn Martel
3.Daemon Blackfyre vs Jaimie Lannister
4.The DragonKnight Aemon Targaryen vs The Dawn of the Morning Arthur Dane vs Christen Cole
Selmy would carve the mountain into pebbles.
I believe I commented the same on another of your videos but, I really appreciate the use of Gary Oldman in Leon the Professional in this. 😃
I binged all of your videos today and now there’s none left :(
Here's a cheaty one, Bran Stark. He was able to take control of Hodor, perhaps he could take control of Robert Strong. I know there'd be some competing magic and whatnot, but we never truly see what the upper limit of Brans warging powers are when it comes to people. I know Hodor is "simple", but I can't believe there's much left going on with Robert Strong either.
Greetings - just something to the waterdancer sword - it can either be a triangular rapier (a bloody deadly thing to use against gaps in armor) or an Estoc - a super slim Longsword that is designed to pierce.
I do wonder what would've happened if Loras was sent instead of Beric. I can't imagine the Tyrells would side with the Lannisters at all of Gregor killed Loras...
Prime Jaime, prime Barristan, Arthur Dayne, Oberyn, the Hound and probably that's it.
I guess I would give Brienne, Drogo, prime Robert, prime Rheagar, Daemon, Criston Cole, Jon Snow, Bronn some chances but my money would be on the montain.
Loved this, seeing more quidditch and norbert would be awesome. Really like the idea of this pacing. Would love to hear your thoughts on the rest of the books!
Let’s fking gooooooo, my boy Great Jon got the spotlight he deserves.
Pls do How Littlefinger Could’ve Won the Game of Thrones, Ik u already did one about him as king but it would be interesting to see your interpretation of how he would get there
Need to add Sandoq the Shadow the goat with his valerian steel sword
This is worth staying up late for
The Mountain has plot armor.
No character can defeat that.
Imagine the Mountain wielding Ned Stark’s sword Ice. 😂😂😂
Not that I'm claiming Jorah would make a big chance, but I think you do him a little dirty and underestimate him. He's very skilled and smart, I would even put him and the mountain in the same category qua skill. But the mountain's strengt puts him miles ahead and Jorah doesn't have the speed, dark killer instinct, or guile in a fight to make up for it, so he's deff out
I think the one that beats the mountain the most comfortably (except for young bobby b) is probably Daario.
He has peak human physique and is quite a bit taller than 6". He can block many of Gregors strikes and does not have to dodge everything. Add that to the fact that he has probably fought more 1v1 fights and (fights in general) than ANY fighter in the known world of ASOIAF and NEVER lost.
He has probably faced a ton of enemies with comparable size and fighting type to the mountain.
Id argue Daario is the strongest fighter in the whole ASOIAF story and the only one who beats even Arthur Dayne due to the fact that he probably fought to the death 3-4 times a week and spent the rest practising.
5:37 think that is true for the show but not books, almost positive that he was cutting down 🐙 during the greyjoy rebellion
Depending on the Jaquen Hagar I think he could take the mountain. There’s most certainly a faceless man that could reliably dance around the mountain.
They’re just a little too mysterious to know what he’s up to so one can’t really say confidently either way.
Sir twenty Goodman, Arthur dayne, the hound, barrister Selmy, 2 handed Jaime, Loras with a lance and a horse in heat, and honestly anyone with enough plot armor
I don't think he'll win but I think Rhagar Targaryen has a good chance, he knighted Gregor and thus knows him and he only lost to the legend that was Prime Bobby B.
Also Brynden "the Blackfish" Tully, is a man that has a shot againt thr Mointain that Rides.
Umber really is a bad ass to laugh after he loses what I can only assume to be 2 fingers of his dominant hand.
An honorable mention as someone who would win against Mountain atleast 7 out've 10 ten times, Sandaq the Shadow, he has the tools and armor and he was described as being able kill several men who were Kingsguard as well as Amaury Peake himself before something could touch the ground or something like that, though its definently hyperbole, I beileve he still has the speed advantage, and for surely has the experience advantage having fought in the Pits in Lys for majority of his life and being undefeated, even going against a slew of deadly creatures, a notable one being a Wyvern with his bare hands, and is close to the Mountains size, being estimated to be 7ft by most.
GreatJon and SmallJon....Jaime himself talks about how strong and difficult he might have it with GreatJon in the books
Belwas has insane agility and hand eye coordination, basically just a fat Oberyn, might be my top choice haha
This is like the 100th time u guys are doing this😂😂😂 but we love it
Ohhh! Love the scene from The Last Duel! I loved that movie even though I really think Adam Driver's character was innocent. Read into the story and it was impossible, in my equestrian opinion, for him to be at their castle that day unless he had arranged multiple horses along the very long way there that he could run top speed to near death before he got on the next one....one horse couldnt have gotten there that fast without collapsing. All that just to violate Matt Damon's characters wife and leave?what Idk. I think Damon's character was mad at him for receiving property he considered to rightfully belong to him and his wife. So they devised a scheme to kill Driver's character. Hes even recorded as telling the priest he went to see before he went to the duel that he did not have that sin to confess and repent for because he didn't do it, and to die without repenting of all your sins before death...well, they REALLY took that stuff seriously back then. He would've admitted it to the priest and asked forgiveness before going to a duel he knew he could possibly die participating in. The people of France at the time believed God would let the person telling the truth win. But we all know thats not how God works...
Much less known character but I wonder about that “Then” wildling, he had a massive double headed axe and was pretty psycho. The guy who Tormond said “I f***ing hate then’s” about.
I don’t care Tormund beating the mountain with shear crazy
These lists have made me realise that Robert Baratheon was actually pretty smart with his choice of weapon, even if it is oversized his hammer is great for dealing with plate armoured fighters and is very good at dealing with light or none armoured fighters.
And i'm kind of curious why others don't use weapons like a Warhammer and maybe a Mace both were used but the knights the knights of Westeros are based on.
So the thing is the sword was never the main battlefield weapon in history. The spear was, with it's various combinations up to Poleaxes and Halberds. The sword was the backup weapon for everyone not in the Roman Legions who had a very specific tactic with their very short swords. Even knights tended to use essentially a spear in their lances. Hell even once guns became a thing the bayonet was basically a way to turn a gun into a spear.
Swords on the battlefield became more useful in the 19th century when guns meant most soldiers forwent armour meaning their poor ability to penetrate it stopped being an issue. Their main value tended to be prestige before then, and that they make a decent defensive tool over other battlefield weapons. You can block with a sword better than an axe.
In 1 on 1 fighting real warhammers and maces were very short range and so had limited utility against armour. By the time you were close enough to use them you had bigger problems. They also have issues with balance that make them hard to use by the nature of the weapon. What makes them useful is what gives them limits.
Real knights going at it one on one tended to wrestle and use daggers for those reasons.
Other series idea: who could defeat Sweetrobin?
Lysa’s boob.
I've been watching a lot of medieval modern sword fighting and I like the theatrical big swings of the mountain but he would be a much scarier opponent realistically if he half handed but his style is more of a short sword
I think Syrio would Dance around the mountain tbh i get the disadvantages but he's definitely gonna have the athleticism and with a real sword with a good point his skills would show when he plunges it in the mountains helm
I still think Tyrion has a little lions chance at rolling around and chopping his legs until the mountain fell like I outlined in my suggestion (why not throw in some milk of the poppy to spike Greagor's wine first while we're at it) and now that I think about it this is Tywin's creation and favorite enforcer, it really adds up in favor of the demon monkey.
Fight me!
@@devinm524 Tyrion gets wine drunk and beats him with a shield
I think doing a versus video where you pit the valerian Empire against the long night would be an interesting one
Sandor, Younger Barriston, Young Robert, The Viper, Dayne, and Maybe Jamie, maybe Bronn.
Gregor was a vicious brute. He’s got strength and durability maxed out.
Sandor had the best chance, he has almost the same strength and durability, but is a better fighter than Gregor and is faster, and smarter.
For some of the well trained knights (Arthur Dayne) for example you could argue thatbif a longsword isnt the right weapon choice for this battle they are well trained enough in others
Video idea of the strongest fighters from every kingdom and who has had the most skilled fighter throughout history(kings guard would represent where they are from not the crown lands)