I tried getting the bots to use the Zipline on Train Heist, but they wouldn't use it. I clicked the key bind to remove all paths, picked up a bag, bots picked up bags, i put my bag on the zipline, but when it got back, the bots just stood there with their bags. Any idea what i was doing wrong?
Monkeepers is about reducing the gap between a lobby with 4 players and 1 player with 3 bots (in my case, it's more that I don't like having care about bags while bots get all the fun, so with MKP, I get the fun and bots get the chores ;) ). Jokers aren't allowed to carry bags in base game and I stick to that rule. It's not a technical issue but a balance decision, the joker skill is already strong enough.
What modified health values do you recommend for OVK, MH, DW, and DS/OD? Since the only saving quality for vanilla bots are their massive healthpool, it only makes sense to readjust bot health to a lower value when this mod is installed. I’m thinking double player health for OVK, triple for MH, quadruple for DW, and quintuple for DS/OD.
Bots' health points is not the problem, default values are good. If you already use other bots enhancing mods, your problem is more likely there. Vanilla bots are definitely unable to hold long by themselves. Well, unless you get lucky enough to have a very calm assault like the one seen here (all my other attempts were too crowded and I couldn't focus on bots' activity and missed the point to showcase). From my experience, if I don't deal with medics/tasers/bulldos quickly, bots get overwhelmed and once there are too many cops occupying the space, they go down. But if you really want to make bots less tanky, there are other things more interesting to patch (mainly their REGENERATE_TIME). I've made this kind of changes in FSS's mutator "real elastic", but numbers are tuned so they wouldn't be invulnerable in a very low amount of cops context and wouldn't fit normal gameplay. I could add an option in Keepers trying to adapt these changes to normal amount of cops, but I fear it won't give a good result as bots are made to be good on defense and bad on attack. I think it's best to keep them balanced like that (one important point is that the player's aggressivity is useful to the team). In the end, giving the boring tasks to bots doesn't really affect balance, it essentially allows you to play more on the protect-the-carrier side than be-the-carrier.
@@TdlQ I definitely think adding more options to handicap bot health pool/regeneration is a good idea, because whilst most of the time Keepers just speeds up mundane tasks, the process of defending yourself whilst completing a task while doing the task itself is still a complex challenge that bots can circumvent by simply tanking the damage. Because bots have higher health pools and faster regeneration than players, players can completely circumvent the challenge of this balance by sending bots to tank objectives rather than completing the task themselves. This is a drastically different experience than that of vanilla gameplay. Taking inspiration from Republic Commando, which shares a large amount of similarities to this mod, the gameplay cycle requires you to not only command your ai squad to complete mission objectives, but also assume tactical positions to cover each other. There are many instances where the game requires you to draw fire and eliminate threats so your teammates, which share similar health pools as you, can successfully complete their tasks and retreat to cover. My recommendation is to provide the option to not only customize health pool/regen handicaps for bots, but also consider tweaking threat values when the crew completes tasks (i.e. bots are targeted over you when you complete tasks, you are targeted over bots when they complete tasks) That way, you will always be "exposed" when you or your crew complete tasks, but as long as your squad covers each other efficiently, the operation will run smoothly.
@@M3L0618 Personally, I won't waste time on health amounts. But health regen... Coming to (re)think about it, if there is no player close to a bot (25m), it uses a reduced regenerate time. It makes sense in vanilla game, where bots have difficulties to keep up with the player they follow; it would be very annoying to see them going down because they can't move properly. Since Iter solves this point, the system can indeed be reworked for a good reason. Having a system where the regen is penalized on distance to closest player could work but it may require too much time to get good values that work on all difficulty levels. Not to mention the hell it would be to explain; even with clear explanations, I keep seeing people misunderstanding simple things regarding FSS so a less simple thing... So, nope, won't take this path. But I see another possibility: remove the REGENERATE_TIME_AWAY mechanic and only change the amount of health regenerated when the regen event occurs. Vanilla always gives full health, the problem might be just that. I think that restoring a fixed % of health should be enough. For example, say a bot has only 10% of his health and the health_regain is set to 20% (and pretend no one shoots at him), when the first regen event strikes, he goes back to 30%, waits REGENERATE_TIME, goes back to 50%, waits REGENERATE_TIME, goes back to 70%, etc. Technically, it's very easy to do and takes close to no additional system resources. For the player, it's easy to tune as it involves only one setting: a slider for the amount of health regain. It avoids to touch complex game mechanics that are already balanced for all difficulty levels. And it's relatively easy to explain. That idea is worth to be considered, I'll probably add it.
@@M3L0618 I've played a bunch of DW heists as I usually do. My bots had a grace period of 0.05 sec (instead of 0.35) and a health regen granting 10% of their full health every REGENERATE_TIME (difficulty dependent). While a lone bot against all cops has no chances of success, playing normally they got down when really overwhelmed. Overall, it didn't feel like they suddenly were all useless so to keep it simple, I'm thinking about a single checkbox in the options, one that unlocks the ability to interact and comes with the forementioned changes.
yo, i got some issue, somehow i cant apply the keybind for "Order all bot to follow, Place Waypoint, etc" it always got reset if i join a match or i quit. any idea u can fix this? Thank You.
Nope, no patreon, I've only set up a paypal account (and seeing how often it's used, I don't think I need to do more than that, see pd2mods.z77.fr/hall_of_fame.html ).
La fierté de la France
Merci du compliment ^^
I tried getting the bots to use the Zipline on Train Heist, but they wouldn't use it. I clicked the key bind to remove all paths, picked up a bag, bots picked up bags, i put my bag on the zipline, but when it got back, the bots just stood there with their bags. Any idea what i was doing wrong?
You say your bots were carrying bags, I think that's the issue. Only bags on ground nearby the zipline are considered.
@@TdlQ ah I see. Thanks for the response
The wild cards should also be able to carry bags and interact with objects. can you do that ?
Monkeepers is about reducing the gap between a lobby with 4 players and 1 player with 3 bots (in my case, it's more that I don't like having care about bags while bots get all the fun, so with MKP, I get the fun and bots get the chores ;) ).
Jokers aren't allowed to carry bags in base game and I stick to that rule. It's not a technical issue but a balance decision, the joker skill is already strong enough.
What modified health values do you recommend for OVK, MH, DW, and DS/OD?
Since the only saving quality for vanilla bots are their massive healthpool, it only makes sense to readjust bot health to a lower value when this mod is installed. I’m thinking double player health for OVK, triple for MH, quadruple for DW, and quintuple for DS/OD.
Bots' health points is not the problem, default values are good.
If you already use other bots enhancing mods, your problem is more likely there. Vanilla bots are definitely unable to hold long by themselves. Well, unless you get lucky enough to have a very calm assault like the one seen here (all my other attempts were too crowded and I couldn't focus on bots' activity and missed the point to showcase). From my experience, if I don't deal with medics/tasers/bulldos quickly, bots get overwhelmed and once there are too many cops occupying the space, they go down.
But if you really want to make bots less tanky, there are other things more interesting to patch (mainly their REGENERATE_TIME). I've made this kind of changes in FSS's mutator "real elastic", but numbers are tuned so they wouldn't be invulnerable in a very low amount of cops context and wouldn't fit normal gameplay.
I could add an option in Keepers trying to adapt these changes to normal amount of cops, but I fear it won't give a good result as bots are made to be good on defense and bad on attack. I think it's best to keep them balanced like that (one important point is that the player's aggressivity is useful to the team).
In the end, giving the boring tasks to bots doesn't really affect balance, it essentially allows you to play more on the protect-the-carrier side than be-the-carrier.
@@TdlQ I definitely think adding more options to handicap bot health pool/regeneration is a good idea, because whilst most of the time Keepers just speeds up mundane tasks, the process of defending yourself whilst completing a task while doing the task itself is still a complex challenge that bots can circumvent by simply tanking the damage.
Because bots have higher health pools and faster regeneration than players, players can completely circumvent the challenge of this balance by sending bots to tank objectives rather than completing the task themselves. This is a drastically different experience than that of vanilla gameplay.
Taking inspiration from Republic Commando, which shares a large amount of similarities to this mod, the gameplay cycle requires you to not only command your ai squad to complete mission objectives, but also assume tactical positions to cover each other. There are many instances where the game requires you to draw fire and eliminate threats so your teammates, which share similar health pools as you, can successfully complete their tasks and retreat to cover.
My recommendation is to provide the option to not only customize health pool/regen handicaps for bots, but also consider tweaking threat values when the crew completes tasks (i.e. bots are targeted over you when you complete tasks, you are targeted over bots when they complete tasks) That way, you will always be "exposed" when you or your crew complete tasks, but as long as your squad covers each other efficiently, the operation will run smoothly.
@@M3L0618 Personally, I won't waste time on health amounts.
But health regen... Coming to (re)think about it, if there is no player close to a bot (25m), it uses a reduced regenerate time. It makes sense in vanilla game, where bots have difficulties to keep up with the player they follow; it would be very annoying to see them going down because they can't move properly. Since Iter solves this point, the system can indeed be reworked for a good reason.
Having a system where the regen is penalized on distance to closest player could work but it may require too much time to get good values that work on all difficulty levels. Not to mention the hell it would be to explain; even with clear explanations, I keep seeing people misunderstanding simple things regarding FSS so a less simple thing... So, nope, won't take this path.
But I see another possibility: remove the REGENERATE_TIME_AWAY mechanic and only change the amount of health regenerated when the regen event occurs. Vanilla always gives full health, the problem might be just that. I think that restoring a fixed % of health should be enough.
For example, say a bot has only 10% of his health and the health_regain is set to 20% (and pretend no one shoots at him), when the first regen event strikes, he goes back to 30%, waits REGENERATE_TIME, goes back to 50%, waits REGENERATE_TIME, goes back to 70%, etc.
Technically, it's very easy to do and takes close to no additional system resources. For the player, it's easy to tune as it involves only one setting: a slider for the amount of health regain. It avoids to touch complex game mechanics that are already balanced for all difficulty levels. And it's relatively easy to explain. That idea is worth to be considered, I'll probably add it.
@@M3L0618 I've played a bunch of DW heists as I usually do. My bots had a grace period of 0.05 sec (instead of 0.35) and a health regen granting 10% of their full health every REGENERATE_TIME (difficulty dependent). While a lone bot against all cops has no chances of success, playing normally they got down when really overwhelmed.
Overall, it didn't feel like they suddenly were all useless so to keep it simple, I'm thinking about a single checkbox in the options, one that unlocks the ability to interact and comes with the forementioned changes.
Hey dude, whenever I hit the "Monkeepers" option in the mods list my game crashes. Any idea why this is happening?
Maybe a corrupted settings file, verify/delete your mods/saves/monkeepers.txt
@@TdlQ It worked, thank you so much for helping me pal, I was so desperate finding some help xD
yo, i got some issue, somehow i cant apply the keybind for "Order all bot to follow, Place Waypoint, etc"
it always got reset if i join a match or i quit.
any idea u can fix this? Thank You.
Since it works for me, the issue is on your end so check access rights of files/folders in /mods/saves/
@@TdlQ aight will try
You no have peatron?
Nope, no patreon, I've only set up a paypal account (and seeing how often it's used, I don't think I need to do more than that, see pd2mods.z77.fr/hall_of_fame.html ).