The Last Jedi was also the end of the line for me. When The Force Awakens came out, I had some serious doubts about this franchise, and Disney's handling of it, but still had some hope that The Last Jedi would be a quick upswing. That turned out to be a shocking disappointment. Disney can't fix what they've done, and don't seem to care anyway. In that case, neither do I. Let them make their Mandalorians, or whatever they do.
You sound pretty similar to me. After TLJ the damage was done. I remember people hoping the Mandolorian would introduce time travel or something because I think everyone knows only something like literally undoing everything Disney has done and having a clean slate is the ONLY possible way to go. But Kathleen's ego doesn't have a summit. There is no way she would ever allow that to happen lol.
I had hopes for the force awakens, even though it was a slightly shallow retreading of a new hope. I didn’t mind Rey, I liked Finn, and even though they killed Han at least they showed his character respect. Then came the last Jedi… I have not fully watched another Disney Star Wars project since, I have only seen reviews. I was excited for TLJ but as soon as Luke tossed the lightsaber in the first scene, my mouth fell to the floor. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. They were actively destroying his character. No redemption. Breaking lore. Ruining one of the most heroic characters that I adored and admired growing up. The prequel trilogy is story of tragedy, and the OT is redemption. Luke is the hero , the one hero, who succeeds and who we can look up to. And to have everything he did just brushed away to favor some character that no effort was taken to build an attachment to… it was disturbing. And then…. Somehow an old friend of ours returned lol the biggest FU in fictional history. I hate this shit to the core of my being. They’re intentionally tearing down a mythopoetic archetypal story that tackles the relationship between father and child and hereditary trauma, sin, and redemption. And they obliterated in favor of politics, division, ideology. And anyone who criticized the movie was a racist far right toxic fan. Bull shit. I never sent hate to anyone. THEY sent hate to ME through the damn movie screen. Fuck me for being a straight white man Jesus Christ put me on the cross already. Fucking ridiculous. And notice nothing has changed, for anyone paying attention to the acolyte drama. Same shit. Destroy the lore, make unlikable ideology pushing characters, horrible writing and dialogue, and if you don’t like it and talk about how brave they are, you’re racist. This culture war needs to end. I have love and respect for all people. I would never send hate or harass someone online just because of a show or movie. So why is it okay to harass us, the fans? It’s sickening. Disney Star Wars is the perfect representation of the ideological warfare being waged on this country by the elite, that only seeks to divide us, shame us, and belittle us, and I mean all of us, regardless of color or creed. Luke was a hero for anyone that could see themselves in him. He was a hero for all of us, and anakin was the redemption of our darker selves, choosing the right path. It’s for all of us, not just men, or not just straight people, or whatever. So what’s the solution? Make our own new stories and art. Restore the balance. Sorry for the rant. May the force be with you all.
Comments like these are why I started making content. This is what I enjoy doing so thank you lol. I know exactly what you mean about how this somehow got contorted into the "Racism" and "far right". That's not who I am or what I believe. Division and toxicity started with Disney. You're right unfortunately. It's time for new stories from creatives that deserve a chance. Idc where they're from or what they look like. If they make good stories I'm in. Don't apologize for the rant, I love it. I started a YT channel because I rant so much lol.
@@Livvvid thank you for taking time to respond and for respecting what I had to say! I am glad and grateful we have people like you who are making this kind of content, criticizing and pointing out the hypocrisy, lies, and terrible writing, without any kind of engendered hate toward anyone! It’s this kind of criticism and discourse that has always been a necessary aspect of culture. If no one is criticized and everyone is validated for everything, then there is no meaning! No rules! No objective! And sadly no morality. Which I think is the point of the important question you asked. Why does Disney seem so keen to make the Jedi the bad guys and be morally ambiguous about everything? It’s the same reason they push these politics. They don’t care about their characters. They don’t care about advancing the rights of women. They don’t care about representation on screen. They don’t care about queer characters. And with flop after flop, they seemingly don’t care very much about money either… I don’t know why they make some interesting or good SW content… other than maybe to get any creators to work with them they have to concede to some actually good and marketable ideas, to keep people watching. But the reason why I think Disney pushes this moral ambiguity, is the same reason why most content they create, whether marvel or Star Wars or whatever, is getting waaaay dumbed down. The jokes are getting dumber, the writing simpler, the stories simpler, the exposition more blatant. They treat the audience like idiots. It’s the same reason why most mainstream pop and billboard hit music is vapid, vacuous, self absorbed. And why social media has become such a virus infecting everyone’s mind and attitudes. They are trying to make everything meaningless, they are trying to make us dumb vapid hollow shells of people, so they can fill our heads with their own thoughts, their own ideas and ideologies. So if there is nothing objectively good or just or true, if we don’t have any heroes to look at as cultural guides, as mythic molds and “moral archetypes” that we can emulate and learn from, then we become lost and empty and easily controlled. I know this is sounding conspiratorial and I don’t mean to push that on you, but these trends and patterns have become so obvious in all media - the tearing down of all myths, all heroes, all great stories, to supplant them with hollow shells that are solely vehicles to push divisive ideology that is meant to distract and divide us. It happened with Star Wars, it’s happening with marvel, it happened with Indiana jones, it’s now happening with LOTR, and so so many more. If they wanted to write good stories and good characters, they totally could, I really believe that. It’s not that hard if you have the money and the time. And even the people who defend the ideology online, maybe I’m wrong, but I can’t see a character like Rey, or Helen Shaw, or any of these replacement heroes meaning as much to their defenders, or to kids who watched these movies, as the OG heroes meant to those of us who grew up with them. I don’t think anyone actually cares about any of these new characters, they only care about the ideology they represent. Which is why the only defense they have and support is to call out the tiny section of fan bases that are sweaty racist incels, and then disregard the mountain of valid criticism the rest of the fans give. And believe me I’m not some old man whining about the good old days. I’m 27 born in 96 smack dab between millennial and gen Z. And when I see this media, this music, this culture, and when I see my generation falling into this apathy, this moral ambiguity, hyper sexualization, I can’t help but see the agenda, the puppet masters pulling the strings whispering “god is dead, nothing is sacred.” And I’m no Christian either, nor was I raised one. But I believe in the sacredness of morals and stories and heroes. A hero can be any race, any gender, any sexuality. A hero can be you, me, anyone. A hero is a hero and we all know what a hero feels like. They want to destroy our heroes and destroy our morals, so then we have nothing and no one to look to or guide us. When I need a hero, if there isn’t one around me in real life, who do I turn to? Our leaders? Hell no. I look at Luke and Leia and Han and obi wan, I look at Aragorn and Frodo and Samwise the brave. When we are kids, we read stories, we find our heroes, and we want to be good and just like them. When we’re older we get into tales of ambiguity and darkness and sexuality and those can be good stories too! They can be well written and interesting! But as kids we look at these heroes that are paragons of virtue, honesty, kindness, justice, and we learn from them. The kind of hero who when faced with evil or death, refuses to succumb, throws down their weapon and says “I am a Jedi, like my father before me.” Words that could bring the most hateful man back from the abyss, and show him the light of truth. But now… it’s all changed… and I feel so old.
@SUPREMELEGEND what is this? I'm definitely interested. I need some help tho because I've never heard of this. If you wouldn't mind helping out and I somehow win I'll give you the prize money. I'm happy to get my name out there.
Luke was my hero growing up man. Watching what they did to him is just too soul crushing. At least the acoloyte is a bunch of characters I never knew or cared about haha
I understand this is a controversial take, but personally I enjoyed The Last Jedi. Whereas The Force Awakens was just a rehash of A New Hope and Rise of Skywalker was a barely coherent jumbled mess of a movie, The Last Jedi actually had a vision. The whole Luke character arc is take it or leave it. It worked for me, but I understand how it could not land for others. I liked it because it's almost a response to the people who talk about how bad the Jedi were, and this movie refutes that by showing that Luke was in the wrong to walk away from the Order. Despite all their failings, the galaxy still needs to Jedi to be there to fight the dark side. Moving on, I think out of all three of the sequels, this is the one where Rey and Kylo are the most compelling. You can tell that Kylo really is torn between two worlds where he both regrets some of the things he's done, but at the same time the dark side is so tempting that it's ultimately impossible for him to step away at the end and instead doubles down on everything that Snoke made him. I think Rey's storyline here only really works if you buy into Luke's character arc, which is admittedly not ideal. However, she's doing her mandatory once per trilogy protagonist gets tempted by the dark side plotline. The revelation of her being a nobody is great, and I wish TRoS had the guts to actually stand by where her character ended up instead of just going "um no, actually she's a Palpatine and can do force lighting and also grandaddy is back to tempt her again even though she already completed her arc of walking away from the dark side." That's a whole different discussion though. Yes, the Canto Bight sequence goes on a bit long. Yes, I wish Poe had more to do. Yes, they should have let Leia die when she was ejected out into space. Yes, I think Finn should have been allowed to sacrifice himself. The movie is by no means perfect nor is is one of my favorites, but I appreciate it for what it is. I think the last important thing to mention is that this movie is just visually stunning. Rian Johnson is an expert at crafting iconic imagery. Anyways, feel free to let me know any thoughts you have and hopefully we can have a good discussion.
The Last Jedi was a better movie than either of the other sequels, and is better than all of the Prequels, which despite having 25 years of people trying to rehabilitate them are still hilariously bad dumpster fire shitfests. I really enjoy about half of the Last Jedi; the chase and casino planet stuff was dreadful, but it is the only Star Wars movie that looks at the failures of the Jedi as an order objectively. It is the only movie that brings up the idea that the Force is bigger and belongs to more than just a single order of idiot warrior monks and I kind of love it for that.
Hey I appreciate the comment and especially appreciate how you laid out all of your points without being nasty or accusing me of "isms" and "phobias". I'm not saying the nasty people are only on one side of this discussion but still you watched a video that you disagreed with and took the time to explain your side without taking it personal. I know it may seem like youtuber bs to have a viewer but I genuinely hope you stick around even if you disagree with everything I say. I understand your point that the movie eventually says luke is wrong but I'm a show me not tell me guy. You're SHOWN luke basically having given up and become pathetic. I'm saying that should have never happened and even if it did the explanation isn't convincing. The whole thing with trying to kill kylo is so beyond what and who luke is that its hard to not write an entire synopsis of the originals to explain why that would never happen.
@patrickwaldeck6681 I appreciate the input from you as well. To be totally upfront I also don't like much about the prequels. I don't agree with any argument that suggests the sequels have now made them better on their own.
Yeah i wanted to like it, i really tired. I convinced my self after the first watch it was fine. Then i watched it again and completely lost interest and didnt put any more thought into it.
I couldn't even get the first viewing hype to get me into it. I was immediately off balance with Luke and I just sat there in the theater feeling stupid. Like I actually went in with good intentions and felt like I was getting punished.
One of Mark Hamill's biggest gripes about the sequals is the fact that Luke, Leia, and Hans NEVER HAVE A SCENE TOGETHER WITH THE THREE OF THEM.
Who is hans?
The hero that Gotham deserves, but not the one that the city needs right now.
@@уэйдуилсон-д1ч ...thank you? Lol
The Last Jedi was also the end of the line for me. When The Force Awakens came out, I had some serious doubts about this franchise, and Disney's handling of it, but still had some hope that The Last Jedi would be a quick upswing. That turned out to be a shocking disappointment. Disney can't fix what they've done, and don't seem to care anyway. In that case, neither do I. Let them make their Mandalorians, or whatever they do.
You sound pretty similar to me. After TLJ the damage was done. I remember people hoping the Mandolorian would introduce time travel or something because I think everyone knows only something like literally undoing everything Disney has done and having a clean slate is the ONLY possible way to go.
But Kathleen's ego doesn't have a summit. There is no way she would ever allow that to happen lol.
I had hopes for the force awakens, even though it was a slightly shallow retreading of a new hope. I didn’t mind Rey, I liked Finn, and even though they killed Han at least they showed his character respect. Then came the last Jedi… I have not fully watched another Disney Star Wars project since, I have only seen reviews. I was excited for TLJ but as soon as Luke tossed the lightsaber in the first scene, my mouth fell to the floor. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. They were actively destroying his character. No redemption. Breaking lore. Ruining one of the most heroic characters that I adored and admired growing up. The prequel trilogy is story of tragedy, and the OT is redemption. Luke is the hero , the one hero, who succeeds and who we can look up to. And to have everything he did just brushed away to favor some character that no effort was taken to build an attachment to… it was disturbing. And then…. Somehow an old friend of ours returned lol the biggest FU in fictional history. I hate this shit to the core of my being. They’re intentionally tearing down a mythopoetic archetypal story that tackles the relationship between father and child and hereditary trauma, sin, and redemption. And they obliterated in favor of politics, division, ideology. And anyone who criticized the movie was a racist far right toxic fan. Bull shit. I never sent hate to anyone. THEY sent hate to ME through the damn movie screen. Fuck me for being a straight white man Jesus Christ put me on the cross already. Fucking ridiculous. And notice nothing has changed, for anyone paying attention to the acolyte drama. Same shit. Destroy the lore, make unlikable ideology pushing characters, horrible writing and dialogue, and if you don’t like it and talk about how brave they are, you’re racist. This culture war needs to end. I have love and respect for all people. I would never send hate or harass someone online just because of a show or movie. So why is it okay to harass us, the fans? It’s sickening. Disney Star Wars is the perfect representation of the ideological warfare being waged on this country by the elite, that only seeks to divide us, shame us, and belittle us, and I mean all of us, regardless of color or creed. Luke was a hero for anyone that could see themselves in him. He was a hero for all of us, and anakin was the redemption of our darker selves, choosing the right path. It’s for all of us, not just men, or not just straight people, or whatever. So what’s the solution? Make our own new stories and art. Restore the balance. Sorry for the rant. May the force be with you all.
Comments like these are why I started making content. This is what I enjoy doing so thank you lol.
I know exactly what you mean about how this somehow got contorted into the "Racism" and "far right". That's not who I am or what I believe. Division and toxicity started with Disney.
You're right unfortunately. It's time for new stories from creatives that deserve a chance. Idc where they're from or what they look like. If they make good stories I'm in.
Don't apologize for the rant, I love it. I started a YT channel because I rant so much lol.
@@Livvvid thank you for taking time to respond and for respecting what I had to say! I am glad and grateful we have people like you who are making this kind of content, criticizing and pointing out the hypocrisy, lies, and terrible writing, without any kind of engendered hate toward anyone! It’s this kind of criticism and discourse that has always been a necessary aspect of culture. If no one is criticized and everyone is validated for everything, then there is no meaning! No rules! No objective! And sadly no morality.
Which I think is the point of the important question you asked. Why does Disney seem so keen to make the Jedi the bad guys and be morally ambiguous about everything? It’s the same reason they push these politics. They don’t care about their characters. They don’t care about advancing the rights of women. They don’t care about representation on screen. They don’t care about queer characters. And with flop after flop, they seemingly don’t care very much about money either… I don’t know why they make some interesting or good SW content… other than maybe to get any creators to work with them they have to concede to some actually good and marketable ideas, to keep people watching.
But the reason why I think Disney pushes this moral ambiguity, is the same reason why most content they create, whether marvel or Star Wars or whatever, is getting waaaay dumbed down. The jokes are getting dumber, the writing simpler, the stories simpler, the exposition more blatant. They treat the audience like idiots. It’s the same reason why most mainstream pop and billboard hit music is vapid, vacuous, self absorbed. And why social media has become such a virus infecting everyone’s mind and attitudes.
They are trying to make everything meaningless, they are trying to make us dumb vapid hollow shells of people, so they can fill our heads with their own thoughts, their own ideas and ideologies. So if there is nothing objectively good or just or true, if we don’t have any heroes to look at as cultural guides, as mythic molds and “moral archetypes” that we can emulate and learn from, then we become lost and empty and easily controlled.
I know this is sounding conspiratorial and I don’t mean to push that on you, but these trends and patterns have become so obvious in all media - the tearing down of all myths, all heroes, all great stories, to supplant them with hollow shells that are solely vehicles to push divisive ideology that is meant to distract and divide us. It happened with Star Wars, it’s happening with marvel, it happened with Indiana jones, it’s now happening with LOTR, and so so many more. If they wanted to write good stories and good characters, they totally could, I really believe that. It’s not that hard if you have the money and the time. And even the people who defend the ideology online, maybe I’m wrong, but I can’t see a character like Rey, or Helen Shaw, or any of these replacement heroes meaning as much to their defenders, or to kids who watched these movies, as the OG heroes meant to those of us who grew up with them. I don’t think anyone actually cares about any of these new characters, they only care about the ideology they represent. Which is why the only defense they have and support is to call out the tiny section of fan bases that are sweaty racist incels, and then disregard the mountain of valid criticism the rest of the fans give.
And believe me I’m not some old man whining about the good old days. I’m 27 born in 96 smack dab between millennial and gen Z. And when I see this media, this music, this culture, and when I see my generation falling into this apathy, this moral ambiguity, hyper sexualization, I can’t help but see the agenda, the puppet masters pulling the strings whispering “god is dead, nothing is sacred.” And I’m no Christian either, nor was I raised one. But I believe in the sacredness of morals and stories and heroes. A hero can be any race, any gender, any sexuality. A hero can be you, me, anyone. A hero is a hero and we all know what a hero feels like. They want to destroy our heroes and destroy our morals, so then we have nothing and no one to look to or guide us.
When I need a hero, if there isn’t one around me in real life, who do I turn to? Our leaders? Hell no. I look at Luke and Leia and Han and obi wan, I look at Aragorn and Frodo and Samwise the brave. When we are kids, we read stories, we find our heroes, and we want to be good and just like them. When we’re older we get into tales of ambiguity and darkness and sexuality and those can be good stories too! They can be well written and interesting! But as kids we look at these heroes that are paragons of virtue, honesty, kindness, justice, and we learn from them. The kind of hero who when faced with evil or death, refuses to succumb, throws down their weapon and says “I am a Jedi, like my father before me.” Words that could bring the most hateful man back from the abyss, and show him the light of truth. But now… it’s all changed… and I feel so old.
These were worse than the season 8 finale of GOT …..
bahahah I appreciate that you know the reference now :)
Throw away the whole movie….
If I could only change one event in history....
you should enter thus video into darth melvins 1000$ tournament
@SUPREMELEGEND what is this? I'm definitely interested.
I need some help tho because I've never heard of this. If you wouldn't mind helping out and I somehow win I'll give you the prize money. I'm happy to get my name out there.
if you have twitter can you send him the link? I'm leaving my video link in his comments and I'll reference you sent me there.
AND I just doubled the pot.
I'd rather watch this than the acyolte
Luke was my hero growing up man. Watching what they did to him is just too soul crushing. At least the acoloyte is a bunch of characters I never knew or cared about haha
I understand this is a controversial take, but personally I enjoyed The Last Jedi. Whereas The Force Awakens was just a rehash of A New Hope and Rise of Skywalker was a barely coherent jumbled mess of a movie, The Last Jedi actually had a vision. The whole Luke character arc is take it or leave it. It worked for me, but I understand how it could not land for others. I liked it because it's almost a response to the people who talk about how bad the Jedi were, and this movie refutes that by showing that Luke was in the wrong to walk away from the Order. Despite all their failings, the galaxy still needs to Jedi to be there to fight the dark side.
Moving on, I think out of all three of the sequels, this is the one where Rey and Kylo are the most compelling. You can tell that Kylo really is torn between two worlds where he both regrets some of the things he's done, but at the same time the dark side is so tempting that it's ultimately impossible for him to step away at the end and instead doubles down on everything that Snoke made him. I think Rey's storyline here only really works if you buy into Luke's character arc, which is admittedly not ideal. However, she's doing her mandatory once per trilogy protagonist gets tempted by the dark side plotline. The revelation of her being a nobody is great, and I wish TRoS had the guts to actually stand by where her character ended up instead of just going "um no, actually she's a Palpatine and can do force lighting and also grandaddy is back to tempt her again even though she already completed her arc of walking away from the dark side." That's a whole different discussion though.
Yes, the Canto Bight sequence goes on a bit long. Yes, I wish Poe had more to do. Yes, they should have let Leia die when she was ejected out into space. Yes, I think Finn should have been allowed to sacrifice himself. The movie is by no means perfect nor is is one of my favorites, but I appreciate it for what it is. I think the last important thing to mention is that this movie is just visually stunning. Rian Johnson is an expert at crafting iconic imagery. Anyways, feel free to let me know any thoughts you have and hopefully we can have a good discussion.
The Last Jedi was a better movie than either of the other sequels, and is better than all of the Prequels, which despite having 25 years of people trying to rehabilitate them are still hilariously bad dumpster fire shitfests.
I really enjoy about half of the Last Jedi; the chase and casino planet stuff was dreadful, but it is the only Star Wars movie that looks at the failures of the Jedi as an order objectively. It is the only movie that brings up the idea that the Force is bigger and belongs to more than just a single order of idiot warrior monks and I kind of love it for that.
Hey I appreciate the comment and especially appreciate how you laid out all of your points without being nasty or accusing me of "isms" and "phobias".
I'm not saying the nasty people are only on one side of this discussion but still you watched a video that you disagreed with and took the time to explain your side without taking it personal. I know it may seem like youtuber bs to have a viewer but I genuinely hope you stick around even if you disagree with everything I say.
I understand your point that the movie eventually says luke is wrong but I'm a show me not tell me guy. You're SHOWN luke basically having given up and become pathetic. I'm saying that should have never happened and even if it did the explanation isn't convincing. The whole thing with trying to kill kylo is so beyond what and who luke is that its hard to not write an entire synopsis of the originals to explain why that would never happen.
@patrickwaldeck6681 I appreciate the input from you as well. To be totally upfront I also don't like much about the prequels. I don't agree with any argument that suggests the sequels have now made them better on their own.
Yeah i wanted to like it, i really tired.
I convinced my self after the first watch it was fine.
Then i watched it again and completely lost interest and didnt put any more thought into it.
I couldn't even get the first viewing hype to get me into it. I was immediately off balance with Luke and I just sat there in the theater feeling stupid. Like I actually went in with good intentions and felt like I was getting punished.