I'm a 62 year old Dragon Ball fan. I spent the first 10 years of my life as an Air Force brat living in Japan. So really, I love all things Anime and Manga. I enjoy several different UA-cam that specialize in Dragon Ball What-ifs (SmugStick, Salad Saiyan, and several others). I discovered your channel a few months back, and I have to say, I really enjoy your stories. Keep up the good work, young man. You have a great imagination, and I like your style.
@skyman1572 Given that anime came into it's own (at least in Japan) when I was child living in Tachikawa, it has always been a part of my life. It helped that I had kids and grand kids that enjoy anime (and mangas) as much as I do.
Damn about time you got to 35k. Started watching you years ago whenever i searched for other what if youtubers aside from MasakoX and you was one of a bunch of small channels i subbed to some of which grew faster, some gave up and/or stopped too😂
I just want to say thank for including the end of Z and GT In this series. Most people who do dragon ball what ifs tend to ignore those parts of the franchise. I’m not going into the wether GT is cannon or not argument but either way it’s still a 64 episode series that shouldn’t just be ignored so I’m happy it was included. Same goes with the end of Z which really should also be covered more in stories. You really are a fantastic storyteller and deserve much more recognition for your work
The problem usually lies in super being kind of incompatible with GT, and super for all his defects is still better than GT, so what-ifers usually do super, even here he had to do a split timeline to explore GT
I think Masacko X what if Raditz turned good, Saled Sayinswhat if Bardock and Gine survived/what if universe 6 was GT/what if Frieza raised Goku series’s/Smug sticks what if Beerus woke up in GT series all show there are ways for the events of GT and Super can work together with some tweaking. But that’s just my opinion. Sorry I took so long to respond
Ive been supporting you since the beginning, you and Smugstick. Great story, just know that you are one of the biggest inspirations in my life bro, you have my respect you goddamn role model.
I love this idea. Also, I'm having a hard time visualizing them looking like they always have, not punching down on it tho this was epic. Keep that epic imagination juice flowing my fellow Znation comrade.
Not being disrespectful, but as someone who has watched every episode on Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z besides learning it in Dragon Ball, how do you tell he isn't just a human like Yamaha to nor be able to visualize them lookin "normal"
Started watching you years ago whenever i searched for other what if youtubers aside from MasakoX and you was one of a bunch of small channels i subbed to some of which grew faster, some gave up and/or stopped too😂
I think this Marron would work well with what Goku tried to do in the start of the Granolah arc (using a incomplete UI form with the saiyan forms) since she is so agile and tricky with her attacks Not sure how you will power up the hybrids in season 2, but I think this would be a nice way of powering Marron up
...You don't get stronger by swatting flies. I don't think that the presence of one more training partner would make Frieza significantly stronger. I think the only thing that would come from him training and taking more precaution would be a higher power level. But power level was never his issue in Ressurection F, but his stamina and inexperience in fighting making him not realize that he would need to worry about Stamina. The Golden Form is a similar problem to his "100%" form in terms of stamina, but he likewise almost never used his 100% form, and therefore the stamina issue only reared its head towards the end when Goku realized that Frieza's stamina was failing and likewise his power, and thus he was no longer a threat to him.
You don't, but you do get stronger by putting your effort and attention into your training, something someone like Frieza has multiple issues doing on multiple fronts because of who and what he is inherently. Tagoma's use wasn't to be a powerful sparring partner, it was to be a durable enough toy/training dummy to make the act of putting effort into self betterment entertaining for a sadist like Frieza, that's why more sturdy toys would be useful because it'd keep him more entertained and amicable to the necessity to get stronger.
One of the best what ifs. It would be awesome to see Yurin, Annin, and Oceanus to so up in some what ifs. Especially Yurin and Annin as they have cool personalities and interesting lore.
I understand why Goku and Vegeta might not want to just wish themselves more power, but I wouldn't have even waited for Raditz to show up before I started Dragon-Ball juicing by asking for that Goku kid's ability to come back stronger every time he's beaten down, and if I could gather them for a second round... a sack of infinite Senzu so I wouldn't need to wait between savage power-boosting beat downs.
Legit I would also ask for the power to make half your enemies into friends you can jump future enemies with in a pepertual cycle, thats the best shonen battle manga power there is imo
Aqesome atory, I really like the freedom you took from the original! Two things I missed, though. Why not incorporating GT as the final stage like is is depicted? And secondly, is there any continuation pissible? Like Moro, Granolah, Cell Max and maybe your original arcs? That'd be even more awesome! Glad I found ypur channel, can't wait for more!!
1:19:36 SSG Beerus and Whis being 6 10 and 15 is like a quintillion vs a nonillion vs 1 Quadecillion power levels not 60% 100% 150% nor 600 quadrillion vs 1 quintillion vs 1.5 quintillion power levels Maybe not originally but nowadays it is.
i'm confused at the power levels. Here is the power levels I found. Android #17 - 400,000,000 Android #18 - 350,000,000 Android #19 (Initial) - 60,000,000 Android #19 (Goku Absorbed) - 150,000,000 Android #19 (Vegeta Absorbed) - 250,000,000 Android #20 (Initial) - 60,000,000 Android #20 (Yamcha Absorbed) - 61,000,000 Android #20 (Suppressed Piccolo Absorbed) - 90,000,000 Where does the Billion come from, only cell is that strong, as far as I know he was somewhere between 3-6 billion.
im going to be honest i though the way anime version of the black arc was one of the worst arcs in dragonball history (not just super) but only because of the way it ended. trunks deserved that W and it was stolen from him, which is very disappointing because i thought goku black/zamasu was a complete badass and is probably one of my top 3 villians in the franchise.@@PlusUltraMan
25:19 Like almost every living being? You really goofed there, every living being has an instinct to procreate. You could've said that saiyans had a compulsory instinct to procreate, that could've worked.
That's true, but the conversation or at least topic of narrartion wasn't about every living being it was about characters who had become a certain form of living being we from a grand scheme of things as well as one of the aforementioned characters who became a saiyan, being rather sexless from all prior showings as Tenshinhan is pretty aromantic and asexual when presented opportunities to not be, so just saying "Like all living things" or just "due to a saiyan compuslion" wouldn't have worked in his case specifically because that statement doesn't account for the change in character. Thats also partially why I didn't say that because in reality not almost every loving being has an instinct to procreate, go ask pandas, white rhinos, or most of species human beings have made a concerted effort to not allow to go extinct, so even what you're suggesting is a goof that's not actively considering the characters or context of whats being said Still clunky wording on my part for sure and I'm not gonna die on the hill of a specific line in a specific script I wrote when I first started doing so, but at the sametime I'm not gonna act like the old me or those old scripts are outright inept especially if there's an issue presented in the suggestion made by the critique of it lol
Why would they be low? Also, because thats the correct scaling and free algorithim fuel from people who wanna argue it. Power levels always ramp up wildly, in the first arc they're introduced the lowest one you hear is 5 and then hypothetically the arc ends on an opponent at an 180,000 (power ball and the prior fight drained some energy so it wasn't the full 180k but I digress.) Then you go to Namek where the weakest antag is a 1,500 and you end the arc fighting someon at 120,000,000 setting precedent for PLs at the start of an arc to be far surpassed by the end of it. Beyond all this, Toriayama's given us context to make educated guesses, by his own statement and therefore laws of the verse, you gotta be 2x as strong as someone to withstand their attacks without damage. Mecha Frieza and King Cold were stronger than Goku on Namek so on a low ball 150 mil+. Then Trunks shows up, able to withstabd both their attacks without issue or effort thus at min 2x as strong as them so lowballed at 300,000,000+ as an ssj. Then Goku shows and does the same thing when Trunks tests him, withstanding his full power without damage so we double again to 600 mil, and at this point Trunks tells Goku he and his friends have no choice but to get far stronger than that in order to survive a coming threat and he didn'r know would he stronger than what he dealt with, this means before an android is actually even on screen or page we have characters who'd be touching the billions. Beyond this 19 and Gero could absorb the energy of others to increase their power and 17 and 18 vastly out scaled them to the point 17 as merely 2x as strong as Gero is an insane lowball but even if we use that still likely high if not 10's of billions, which means 16 and imperfect cell would be multiple 10's of billions and absorbing the other androids was doing way more than just adding their power to Cell so by that point we're again lowballing by obly getting him into the hundreds of billions from there. Then using that as a benchmark Goku and Gohan train and tap into a litteral higher plane of power and grow to a point where Gohan was just leagues stronger than Cell able to defeat him after fully regenerating and getting a zenkai boost while he is exhausted and injured and still wins, he would certainly be great deals stronger than Cell in the grandscheme of things so we could once, If hundreds of billions of units of energy aren't enough to beat or honestly even kill you and we keep Toriyama's statement in mind you be at least 2x as strong as that opponent and putting out trillions of units of power would be a viable way to do so.
I've never heard or seen 20% closest thing I can think of is the idea of if someone is within 1/5th your power you can have a somewhat competitive fight, but thats #1 A fan concept not a Toriyama statement because the story is inconsistent with it #2 Not the same thing as the 2x as strong line which he did say. Also the daizentsu is kinda meh, I like it as a refrence since Toriayama praised some of the power levels but its fairly clear he didn't inspect them extensively (its also very unlikely he cared to) because there are power levels on it that contradict Toriyama's own statements and just the story of Dragon Ball itself, Gero and 19 are listed as weaker than regular Frieza not even mecha which would imply the 3 years of training litterally made multiple characters weaker instead of stronger or the idea 18 is only a little over 2x as strong as Namek SSJ Goku, Trunks would have just beaten the future androids long before he came to the present since they were weaker than thw present ones and he got way stronger than both Namek Goku and Mecha Frieza.
Okay, from where? Its not demonstrated in the series to my knowledge, at least no where as near as much as the 2x principle. We see it in play in the first arc of Z, Nappa isn't within range for Chiaotzu's power level to effect him at all when he pours litterally every ounce of his power into an attack on him, but do you know who was? Yamcha and the Saibaman. In a straight fight Yamcha was simply more skilled and able to defeat his Saibamen, he just litterally didn't conceieve of a kamikaze attack and that was the only way the saibaman could even take him down. Krillin is 20% stronger than Yamcha (technically not by exact math) and all he does is cheapshot the remaining 4 saibaman and Vegeta and Nappa, only sucessfully killing 3 and not even scratching Nappa or Vegeta. There's nothing suggesting he could have just tanked attacks from the saibamen without damage, Tien and Gohan likelt couldn't have, the only person on the z-fighters side at the time able to do so was Piccolo, who treats the saibamen as after thoughts as he's more than 2x their power and doesn't need to put anywhere near the effort Yamcha or Tien did into taking one, he catches the one Krillin missed like he'd been expecting it and then just stunts on it with a simple unnamed mouth blast.
I feel that this should have been the case for him; He is in my opinion a very cool character, I liked him alot and I felt that he should have gotten top billing alongside goku and vegeta, I definitely feel he wouldn't have been against being a sayian and that the rivalry between him and vegeta would have been another epic scenario to explore, given how much he was enraged with him due to his actions when he was a bad guy, His character, developed from being a bitter rival of goku to being a friend, and ally of his was compelling to watch and it would've been fun as hell to see him face off against marjin vegeta and him getting that same level of power due to the darkness and rage he has in his heart towards wanting to kill vegeta for all the wrong he's done, that battle between him and tien as a super saiyan 2 would have been badass as hell, I also feel that he would have been a lot stronger and possibly be at the same level of strength and power as goku and even his son gohan due to the fact that he is just as committed to training and practicing martial arts as goku is! 💯🔥😁😉👍
I mean when we first met Nappa, he was a Saiyan with no hair until we saw what he looked like with hair, I mean we knew Krillin always had hair but he shaved it all off but I'm wondering would Tien have hair even though he has a third eye, what would his hairstyle look like
Everything was cool til I heard Krillin is about as strong as Vegeta...?????? "LAUGHABLE"-LUDACRIS-MADDNESS. But still, Old Shcool digs your story and your style.
I mean in canon as earthlings they are told to get stronger than Mecha Frieza in only 3 years and they in fact do so, a feat it took saiyans super saiyan to attain, so its by no means far fetched if you're aware
Not sure what you mean by the first question, as for the second, no. Thats not how it worked for Goku so it wouldn't work for Gohan. It took active training and awareness of God ki to properly master SSG to the point you could even attain a higher form.
This what if also could just be that saiyans lived on earth before goku was sent to earth and the saiyan dna slowly diluted within humanity and the humans like krillin and tien reawakened saiyan abilities like becoming a great ape cause of there skill with ki and since the dna is so diluted they likely would have potential comparable to a regular saiyan full blood like goku but when gohan his born he would have potential comparable to in canon if not more potential than normal
What if the z fighters were renowned as the world champs/Heros by the people after the defeat of Cell Somehow if the camera man didnt lose live footage from the blast
@PlusUltraMan destructo disc is just that destruction with that in mind like thinking of destruction when spirit bomb takes a pure heart to create and u take in the life force of the beings around you only if you have the intention to take out something evil those two things are opposites
@@PlusUltraManI wont be able to address all of it atm and this is quite a read but here is my defense: Buu Saga started off great. Really great. Everything was going pretty well until we get to the Majins and onwards. Vegeta being a Majin makes sense since in this timeline he is even more frustrated. Not being able to get his rematch with Goku while dealing with a bunch of humans who in his eyes took a 'shortcut' to power. Tien being a Majin makes sense as well since in the canon timeline he displayed his hatred for Vegeta on multiple occasions and now he is a Sayian just like him. Plus his pride in his human abilities gets hurt from this. Everyone else doesn't make sense. Krillen is living the life being married(he wants to be a sayian) and Yamcha is on cloud nine being wealthy and married as well while feeling like he plays a important role. Not to mention them having a kid as well. Yeah being a Sayian would introduce some negative influence but I don't think it would be enough to make them a Majin. Can you see Tarble being a Majin? Nope. Then we get to how Tien acted as a Majin. Tien is in control somewhat as stated but I don't see him killing Yamcha. He would knock him away but I don't see him crossing that line. Otherwise he isn't in control and the fight between him and Krillen would've end much differently. I know that factor was pretty much tossed out the window later on for Majin Yamcha but as stated before doesn't make sense Then we get to how the Buu fight was handled. Vegeta in this timeline would've been much stronger due to the presence of other 'False' sayians and wanting to prove to everyone what a real sayian is like. He would have a drive to become stronger, unlike his canon self at this time. We saw how motivation fuels growth in canon. So Majin Vegeta would be greatly above the one in canon and the explosion from him alone should do the trick to kill Majin Buu, not including the factor of Majin Tien joining in. But for story sake I'm leave this be(because truthfully there could be a bit more story that can be squeezed from this). Now to the part that is bugging me the most: how Buu is handled. Being honest you just breeze right on through that part. So many factors you completely ignored and plot holes galore. For starters let's look at the beginning of Buu revival. Where's Babidi? He 100% would of been nearby after the explosion and just like in canon would be on the lookout for others while causing chaos with Fat Buu. In this time period a lot of things can happen. Here's one of them: Goku and Piccolo can teamup and take on Buu. SSJ3 Goku and Piccolo would've been much stronger than their canon counterparts(Goku originally didn't have a dedicated training partner) and as stated canon SSJ3 Goku could've beat Fat Buu so that fight would've been a wash. And we can't forget Krillen and Yamcha jumping in to help but then they can be used as plot devices to power up Buu to continue the Saga. And that's one of the directions this arc could've went from that point. There is so many creative directions this arc could've went at this point and I *know* you can cook up something better than what you presented, especially with how crazy good some of your other what ifs are. I know you can edit some areas when you make your complete series video.
I would like to label this a fair critique but it isn't, in all seriousness (legitimately not making a joke your phrasing is just that fitting here) it could be labeled as weak and nonsensical. First and foremost, I disagree with the notion because a character has been historically a good happy boy they can't fall victim to stuff like the Majin spell or devilmite beam, especially if a story gives legitimate reasons for that history to have moments those techniques are precisely meant to exploit. Yes I could see Tarble or any other number of characters becoming a Majin if given a good enough reason to do so. The assertion isn't that they became majin only because they were saiyan either, thats a gross oversimplification but sure go with that, it is in all fairness what I say for the sake of time in a special litterally meant to be nearly as short and concide as possible. Secondly, the point about crossing a line is irrelevant, you've already let yourself be taken over and helped kill part of a stadium full of people alongside Vegeta? And Yamcha is just as much a source of anger as Krillin is as understated as that may be, in that moment when Tien's inhibitions are completely gone pretty much just as Vegeta's was until he got his own fill it's just on Yamcha for being there and not being prepared and having his guard down, THATS literally a creative decision that ties into all 3 characters story arcs you can easily miss if you spend too much time sad a character who can easily be revived in a arc full of revives gets done in to make sure people know its serious, this is a deadly matter to Tien in that moment. Next this should probably be focused on because it seems like it taints a lot of the rest of this criticism, you know the GT special was a side thing that has no baring on the main story right? And beyond even that the explanation for Yamcha and Krillin's Majin transformation was simply the same as Tien's because in the broadest sense, pride in themselves as earthling martial artist and that pride being snuffed out and stepped on because of your own cowardice is more than enough motivation to make the same choice as Vegeta, and then even there it plays into character arcs and the over all story for the most part so it really just comes off as a "I'm not listening anymore too angy" point than an actual take away, Majin Yamcha and Krillin aren't occurrences that actually happen in the story continued through Part 3 and beyond, GT itself is a sloppy ridiculous mess and the special for it is literally that entire mess condensed into 15 minutes that are there just for the fun of it. Vegeta was stronger yes I 100% agree, but also keep in mind Buu was initiall awakened and powered by the energy from bloodshed of the battles going on around him in both original canon and still here, so he too got a buff and still needed extra power to take out, also I feel like I remeber mentioning Babidi being wiped out pretty much the same as in canon and if not doing so verbally doing so in an editor's note, AND even if I have to concede this as the first relavent of your critique by adding this as something metatextual, there's no way Babidi's barrier is withstanding a blast you yourself are calculating would have been overkill for a suped up Buu, even if it were: Krillin, Goku, Piccolo, 18, 17, any of the hybrid saiyans and honestly a few other characters all could have easily come upon him in the aftermath and offed him as easily as Piccolo was done in. Next you mention how we actually handled Buu, which ranks as the worst point here I'd say. You also say "so many factors you ignored, and plotholes galore" and then only mentioned litterally 1 thing your own prior points kinda answers for itself. Then even funnier, the suggestion you have for an occurence I guess you either felt should have happened or just consider a missed opportunity is just a 2 V 1 with 2 characters who'd rightfully rank above the characters we just established could kill him? They win, easily as you yourself admit so why even suggest this? lol Would you really count that as a more creative choice than the route I took? And If so, by what metric? Continuing the saga would have been more boring and repetitive than anything else I could have done, why? Goku can beat Buu, and if he doesn't he literally has a technique that can make any 2 mildly relavent characters able to beat Buu. Then you say something thats a contradiction, "There is so many creative directions this arc could've went at this point and I know you can cook up something better than what you presented, especially with how crazy good some of your other what ifs are." Ending the arc early because your characters can low diff the antagonists and starting a new arc is a creative direction, this is not an objective critique, this is a "what I would have done" that's cool, but it doesn't make the buu saga nonsensical and weak, we've just very clearly demonstrated that by looking at your own arguments and observations of the story. This is one of my crazy good what-ifs, it already goes in creative directions and litterally still is to this day as I work on the sequel series, but if its not for you that's all good I'm just saying don't make mountains out of molehills or hefty but short critiques you aren't able to back up well even when you do try to elaborate.
@@PlusUltraManClearly we're not going go anywhere with this due to the way we view this story(and prior information we have on the topic) so I'll not gonna write another essay of defense and I'm cool with that(plus I rather not gather ill will towards a good content creator over what is essentially just a conflict of opinions). It is a good what if overall but the Buu Saga is still gonna be off for me. If there is one thing we can at the very least agree on is just how fast you breeze through the Buu Arc after the Majin explosion. Again there is so many things that can be added around this point. Probably another 5 or so additional mins would do it some justice. But besides that I'll leave it here. On the side note can't wait for your next part on Zabuza. Beyond hooked to that story
Up to you my dude, there are routes to a more productive conversation, discord for example has VCs and dedicated text channels to what if discussion for example. Point still stands you didn't back your claim/critiques very well.
Any of the z fighters could become world champions, however only satan can make an empire out of this fame, dude probably made billions milking his reputation.
@Mxmx-c2l that makes it especially interesting that people seem more interested in my yapping than yours, so tf you yapping for? Lol Especially since everyone else seems to be to grasp the concept of a hypothetical/basic Dragon Ball lore where they establish magic and all other kinds of wacky stuff can be done fairly easily without stretching the imagination much if at all.
2 minutes in and all I know is that I was right to avoid the video man. I don't know you and I don't care about the progression of your channel. I will hear your dragon Ball takes easily. Why you think I should care about the extra stuff is why I'm moving on and hoping you do better enough to be recommended back into my timeline later.
This is a hilarious amount of contempt for pretty basic stuff done for the sake of the content itself, thanks for the algo fuel tho also just so its clear, the video has chapters so this really comes off more as a skill issue😂
I'm a 62 year old Dragon Ball fan. I spent the first 10 years of my life as an Air Force brat living in Japan. So really, I love all things Anime and Manga. I enjoy several different UA-cam that specialize in Dragon Ball What-ifs (SmugStick, Salad Saiyan, and several others). I discovered your channel a few months back, and I have to say, I really enjoy your stories. Keep up the good work, young man. You have a great imagination, and I like your style.
Agreed. I’ve come to really like this channel. It’s one of the really creative and well-written ones.
Thank you for your service
It's always nice to see older people that enjoy these things. I hope you are doing well in life my friend.
Hey, thanks for your service sir. Have a great life😊
@skyman1572 Given that anime came into it's own (at least in Japan) when I was child living in Tachikawa, it has always been a part of my life. It helped that I had kids and grand kids that enjoy anime (and mangas) as much as I do.
Amazing series, I haven't spent hours watching What-If's in a long while and I gotta say this was a good watch
Trunks channeling his father and insulting that robot is pretty funny
i felt true happieness to see my boys Yamcha, Krillin and tien get the respect they deserve.
one of my favourite series, keep up your amazing work
Thanks, will do!
This was pretty well thought out. Nice work
One of the best stories on this channel
Hey what up man
Damn about time you got to 35k.
Started watching you years ago whenever i searched for other what if youtubers aside from MasakoX and you was one of a bunch of small channels i subbed to some of which grew faster, some gave up and/or stopped too😂
I just want to say thank for including the end of Z and GT In this series. Most people who do dragon ball what ifs tend to ignore those parts of the franchise. I’m not going into the wether GT is cannon or not argument but either way it’s still a 64 episode series that shouldn’t just be ignored so I’m happy it was included. Same goes with the end of Z which really should also be covered more in stories. You really are a fantastic storyteller and deserve much more recognition for your work
The problem usually lies in super being kind of incompatible with GT, and super for all his defects is still better than GT, so what-ifers usually do super, even here he had to do a split timeline to explore GT
I think Masacko X what if Raditz turned good, Saled Sayinswhat if Bardock and Gine survived/what if universe 6 was GT/what if Frieza raised Goku series’s/Smug sticks what if Beerus woke up in GT series all show there are ways for the events of GT and Super can work together with some tweaking. But that’s just my opinion. Sorry I took so long to respond
Glad you ship Tien and Launch, and giving Yamcha a girlfriend. He deserves the happiness.
Heavily underrated channel, I love how you know how to talk to a camera and your not awkward or monotone, your energetic, your fun to listen to
I have been waiting for years for someone to make this story 🙏
This actually had me hyped! Good job on the story
Ive been supporting you since the beginning, you and Smugstick. Great story, just know that you are one of the biggest inspirations in my life bro, you have my respect you goddamn role model.
What about Salad Saiyan and MasakoX?
I love this idea. Also, I'm having a hard time visualizing them looking like they always have, not punching down on it tho this was epic. Keep that epic imagination juice flowing my fellow Znation comrade.
Not being disrespectful, but as someone who has watched every episode on Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z besides learning it in Dragon Ball, how do you tell he isn't just a human like Yamaha to nor be able to visualize them lookin "normal"
Started watching you years ago whenever i searched for other what if youtubers aside from MasakoX and you was one of a bunch of small channels i subbed to some of which grew faster, some gave up and/or stopped too😂
The idea of ultra instinct Krillin goes so hard.
I think this Marron would work well with what Goku tried to do in the start of the Granolah arc (using a incomplete UI form with the saiyan forms) since she is so agile and tricky with her attacks
Not sure how you will power up the hybrids in season 2, but I think this would be a nice way of powering Marron up
...You don't get stronger by swatting flies. I don't think that the presence of one more training partner would make Frieza significantly stronger. I think the only thing that would come from him training and taking more precaution would be a higher power level. But power level was never his issue in Ressurection F, but his stamina and inexperience in fighting making him not realize that he would need to worry about Stamina.
The Golden Form is a similar problem to his "100%" form in terms of stamina, but he likewise almost never used his 100% form, and therefore the stamina issue only reared its head towards the end when Goku realized that Frieza's stamina was failing and likewise his power, and thus he was no longer a threat to him.
You don't, but you do get stronger by putting your effort and attention into your training, something someone like Frieza has multiple issues doing on multiple fronts because of who and what he is inherently. Tagoma's use wasn't to be a powerful sparring partner, it was to be a durable enough toy/training dummy to make the act of putting effort into self betterment entertaining for a sadist like Frieza, that's why more sturdy toys would be useful because it'd keep him more entertained and amicable to the necessity to get stronger.
The only thing I thought was odd is that they didn't send the kids ahead to the future--so they might survive even if they had lost the tournament.
can i just say that Yamcha as a super saiyan 4 is something that I never knew that I needed in my life? And now I need more of it.
FINALLY A STORY THAT GIVES YAMCHA THE RESPECT HE SHOULD HAVE HAD . GREAT IDEA OF THE Z FIGHTERS BECOMING SAYINS
Oh no Yamcha's been Yamchaed LMAO Love team 4 star
This might be the best Dragon Ball what-if I've ever encountered.
Seen somebody write "algorithm fuel ⛽️" so let's get it!
I just started watching you today, and I saw how fast you got to over 50k in two weeks!
It’s great to see people that enjoy anime as much as I do I just wish I had more people that likes to talk about anime too
One of the best what ifs. It would be awesome to see Yurin, Annin, and Oceanus to so up in some what ifs. Especially Yurin and Annin as they have cool personalities and interesting lore.
one of my favourite series, keep up your amazing work
There are two types of pure people in dragonball:
1. nice, angry, righteous
2. I wanna, I wanna, I wanna get a new form
I understand why Goku and Vegeta might not want to just wish themselves more power, but I wouldn't have even waited for Raditz to show up before I started Dragon-Ball juicing by asking for that Goku kid's ability to come back stronger every time he's beaten down, and if I could gather them for a second round... a sack of infinite Senzu so I wouldn't need to wait between savage power-boosting beat downs.
Legit I would also ask for the power to make half your enemies into friends you can jump future enemies with in a pepertual cycle, thats the best shonen battle manga power there is imo
Interesting so far. Your talking about God ki after cell though mate. Lol
Nah not if you watch past Part 1, it doesn't actually show back up til Part 3.
Aqesome atory, I really like the freedom you took from the original! Two things I missed, though. Why not incorporating GT as the final stage like is is depicted? And secondly, is there any continuation pissible? Like Moro, Granolah, Cell Max and maybe your original arcs? That'd be even more awesome! Glad I found ypur channel, can't wait for more!!
because GT is not the end for this one.
Krillin vs. Frezia is awesome
1:19:36 SSG Beerus and Whis being 6 10 and 15 is like a quintillion vs a nonillion vs 1 Quadecillion power levels not 60% 100% 150% nor 600 quadrillion vs 1 quintillion vs 1.5 quintillion power levels
Maybe not originally but nowadays it is.
for me i thoguht that it was like 6 quintillion 10 quintillion and 15 quintillion or somthing like thatc
I'd like to add to this the idea that Yemma ran the idea by King Kai or Shin and they considered it as helping save an endangered species
dude, I love your avitar. He looks so metal
17 EV training his niece to win the tournament is hilarious
i'm confused at the power levels. Here is the power levels I found.
Android #17 - 400,000,000
Android #18 - 350,000,000
Android #19 (Initial) - 60,000,000
Android #19 (Goku Absorbed) - 150,000,000
Android #19 (Vegeta Absorbed) - 250,000,000
Android #20 (Initial) - 60,000,000
Android #20 (Yamcha Absorbed) - 61,000,000
Android #20 (Suppressed Piccolo Absorbed) - 90,000,000
Where does the Billion come from, only cell is that strong, as far as I know he was somewhere between 3-6 billion.
i honestly think the goku black arc of this timeline is way better and has a more satisfying end then the actual canon version
I'm glad you enjoyed it tho it was really heavily based on the manga versiom of the black arc which I ended up liking it more than the anime version
im going to be honest i though the way anime version of the black arc was one of the worst arcs in dragonball history (not just super) but only because of the way it ended. trunks deserved that W and it was stolen from him, which is very disappointing because i thought goku black/zamasu was a complete badass and is probably one of my top 3 villians in the franchise.@@PlusUltraMan
25:19 Like almost every living being? You really goofed there, every living being has an instinct to procreate. You could've said that saiyans had a compulsory instinct to procreate, that could've worked.
That's true, but the conversation or at least topic of narrartion wasn't about every living being it was about characters who had become a certain form of living being we from a grand scheme of things as well as one of the aforementioned characters who became a saiyan, being rather sexless from all prior showings as Tenshinhan is pretty aromantic and asexual when presented opportunities to not be, so just saying "Like all living things" or just "due to a saiyan compuslion" wouldn't have worked in his case specifically because that statement doesn't account for the change in character. Thats also partially why I didn't say that because in reality not almost every loving being has an instinct to procreate, go ask pandas, white rhinos, or most of species human beings have made a concerted effort to not allow to go extinct, so even what you're suggesting is a goof that's not actively considering the characters or context of whats being said
Still clunky wording on my part for sure and I'm not gonna die on the hill of a specific line in a specific script I wrote when I first started doing so, but at the sametime I'm not gonna act like the old me or those old scripts are outright inept especially if there's an issue presented in the suggestion made by the critique of it lol
28:35. Ok class today's subject, racism
I have two favorite what if from your channel that is what if piccolo turn good early and this video and goku went to vampa
A fully bald super sayian with no beard actually sounds scary as hell
Marron is goated
KRILLEN FTW!!! Awesome story!!
Goten wore the same clothes as toddler gohan?
Very good gonna watch alot of this
Is there a fanfiction story for that one does anyone know for that one ?
Krillin: *in super saiyan*
Goku: …I can’t tell if he’s super saiyan… are his eyebrows gold???
I want to see Yajarobi wielding dual rocket launchers.
Why did tien become a psycho even though he was in "full control"?
Explained in video, maybe give it another/a closer watch or listen.
Why the hell are the power level so high especially in the cell saga being half a trillion power level
Why would they be low? Also, because thats the correct scaling and free algorithim fuel from people who wanna argue it. Power levels always ramp up wildly, in the first arc they're introduced the lowest one you hear is 5 and then hypothetically the arc ends on an opponent at an 180,000 (power ball and the prior fight drained some energy so it wasn't the full 180k but I digress.) Then you go to Namek where the weakest antag is a 1,500 and you end the arc fighting someon at 120,000,000 setting precedent for PLs at the start of an arc to be far surpassed by the end of it.
Beyond all this, Toriayama's given us context to make educated guesses, by his own statement and therefore laws of the verse, you gotta be 2x as strong as someone to withstand their attacks without damage. Mecha Frieza and King Cold were stronger than Goku on Namek so on a low ball 150 mil+.
Then Trunks shows up, able to withstabd both their attacks without issue or effort thus at min 2x as strong as them so lowballed at 300,000,000+ as an ssj. Then Goku shows and does the same thing when Trunks tests him, withstanding his full power without damage so we double again to 600 mil, and at this point Trunks tells Goku he and his friends have no choice but to get far stronger than that in order to survive a coming threat and he didn'r know would he stronger than what he dealt with, this means before an android is actually even on screen or page we have characters who'd be touching the billions. Beyond this 19 and Gero could absorb the energy of others to increase their power and 17 and 18 vastly out scaled them to the point 17 as merely 2x as strong as Gero is an insane lowball but even if we use that still likely high if not 10's of billions, which means 16 and imperfect cell would be multiple 10's of billions and absorbing the other androids was doing way more than just adding their power to Cell so by that point we're again lowballing by obly getting him into the hundreds of billions from there. Then using that as a benchmark Goku and Gohan train and tap into a litteral higher plane of power and grow to a point where Gohan was just leagues stronger than Cell able to defeat him after fully regenerating and getting a zenkai boost while he is exhausted and injured and still wins, he would certainly be great deals stronger than Cell in the grandscheme of things so we could once, If hundreds of billions of units of energy aren't enough to beat or honestly even kill you and we keep Toriyama's statement in mind you be at least 2x as strong as that opponent and putting out trillions of units of power would be a viable way to do so.
@@PlusUltraMan isbt it 20% and in the daizentsu of power levels it never shown this much only a couple of billions
I've never heard or seen 20% closest thing I can think of is the idea of if someone is within 1/5th your power you can have a somewhat competitive fight, but thats #1 A fan concept not a Toriyama statement because the story is inconsistent with it #2 Not the same thing as the 2x as strong line which he did say. Also the daizentsu is kinda meh, I like it as a refrence since Toriayama praised some of the power levels but its fairly clear he didn't inspect them extensively (its also very unlikely he cared to) because there are power levels on it that contradict Toriyama's own statements and just the story of Dragon Ball itself, Gero and 19 are listed as weaker than regular Frieza not even mecha which would imply the 3 years of training litterally made multiple characters weaker instead of stronger or the idea 18 is only a little over 2x as strong as Namek SSJ Goku, Trunks would have just beaten the future androids long before he came to the present since they were weaker than thw present ones and he got way stronger than both Namek Goku and Mecha Frieza.
@@PlusUltraMan what i heard and seen that if your 20% stringer the your opponent then you surpass them
Okay, from where? Its not demonstrated in the series to my knowledge, at least no where as near as much as the 2x principle. We see it in play in the first arc of Z, Nappa isn't within range for Chiaotzu's power level to effect him at all when he pours litterally every ounce of his power into an attack on him, but do you know who was? Yamcha and the Saibaman. In a straight fight Yamcha was simply more skilled and able to defeat his Saibamen, he just litterally didn't conceieve of a kamikaze attack and that was the only way the saibaman could even take him down. Krillin is 20% stronger than Yamcha (technically not by exact math) and all he does is cheapshot the remaining 4 saibaman and Vegeta and Nappa, only sucessfully killing 3 and not even scratching Nappa or Vegeta. There's nothing suggesting he could have just tanked attacks from the saibamen without damage, Tien and Gohan likelt couldn't have, the only person on the z-fighters side at the time able to do so was Piccolo, who treats the saibamen as after thoughts as he's more than 2x their power and doesn't need to put anywhere near the effort Yamcha or Tien did into taking one, he catches the one Krillin missed like he'd been expecting it and then just stunts on it with a simple unnamed mouth blast.
I feel that this should have been the case for him; He is in my opinion a very cool character, I liked him alot and I felt that he should have gotten top billing alongside goku and vegeta, I definitely feel he wouldn't have been against being a sayian and that the rivalry between him and vegeta would have been another epic scenario to explore, given how much he was enraged with him due to his actions when he was a bad guy, His character, developed from being a bitter rival of goku to being a friend, and ally of his was compelling to watch and it would've been fun as hell to see him face off against marjin vegeta and him getting that same level of power due to the darkness and rage he has in his heart towards wanting to kill vegeta for all the wrong he's done, that battle between him and tien as a super saiyan 2 would have been badass as hell, I also feel that he would have been a lot stronger and possibly be at the same level of strength and power as goku and even his son gohan due to the fact that he is just as committed to training and practicing martial arts as goku is! 💯🔥😁😉👍
I'd like to think that Tien and Krillin would have hair as Saiyans
I mean when we first met Nappa, he was a Saiyan with no hair until we saw what he looked like with hair, I mean we knew Krillin always had hair but he shaved it all off but I'm wondering would Tien have hair even though he has a third eye, what would his hairstyle look like
Tien 💀
54:08
Everything was cool til I heard Krillin is about as strong as Vegeta...?????? "LAUGHABLE"-LUDACRIS-MADDNESS. But still, Old Shcool digs your story and your style.
I mean in canon as earthlings they are told to get stronger than Mecha Frieza in only 3 years and they in fact do so, a feat it took saiyans super saiyan to attain, so its by no means far fetched if you're aware
Why was it decided to stop everyone who went in twice for the chamber?
Shouldn’t Gohan have become a SS blue? Already in SS form. Ritual god ki and SS should make blue?
Not sure what you mean by the first question, as for the second, no. Thats not how it worked for Goku so it wouldn't work for Gohan. It took active training and awareness of God ki to properly master SSG to the point you could even attain a higher form.
I thought fusion could only be done with people around your height not short people (Krilin)
That's for metamoran, and even then then Goku and Vegeta are barely relatively the same size anyway
28:48
what the heck is going on the with CC? it is writing something completely different then what the narrator is saying at the 3 hour mark
This what if also could just be that saiyans lived on earth before goku was sent to earth and the saiyan dna slowly diluted within humanity and the humans like krillin and tien reawakened saiyan abilities like becoming a great ape cause of there skill with ki and since the dna is so diluted they likely would have potential comparable to a regular saiyan full blood like goku but when gohan his born he would have potential comparable to in canon if not more potential than normal
Someone need to make a what if about mr popo! The strongest character in the multiverse !!
What if the z fighters were renowned as the world champs/Heros by the people after the defeat of Cell
Somehow if the camera man didnt lose live footage from the blast
I love how everyone gets to have babies! let the shipping wars begin
Algorithm Fuel ⛽️
Spirit destructo disc is an oxymoron 😅
would you mind defining what you think an oxymoron is?
@PlusUltraMan destructo disc is just that destruction with that in mind like thinking of destruction when spirit bomb takes a pure heart to create and u take in the life force of the beings around you only if you have the intention to take out something evil those two things are opposites
Algorithm fuel
when is the next episode of what if red traind ash
Please stop rn 42:15 trunks is gonna do what 😂 the father who said land 1 punch and we go to the fair 🎡 👋 👋 🤜 🤜 🦵 💨 🛌 💀
Why did u not let Mr catan become a sayinan😂😅
satan also satan doesent deserve to be strong he doesnt nearly as work as hard as the other humans
@@normal_handle47 I have an idea!
25:21 / 3:44:22 got em bois
Tien's daughter looks like pan with a 3rd eye
Yu got It, son. 👍
If five righteous Saiyan's make a Super Saiyan God, what would five Super Saiyan Gods make? 🤔
Whis favorite alcohol is whiskey... I see what you did there
"Low class fake saiyan spawn" lmao... you forgot dishwasher or washing machine
53min great story . Thank you Sir
set play back speed to 0.25
👑
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉LETS GO🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Oops we made a SSJG!
Algorithm Fuel 🎉
Yumcha guess I’ll die
First.
Not gonna lie your buu saga is extremely weak and nonsensical. Everything else is ok
Okay hefty claim, gonna back it up or defend it or elaborate in any way?
@@PlusUltraManI wont be able to address all of it atm and this is quite a read but here is my defense:
Buu Saga started off great. Really great. Everything was going pretty well until we get to the Majins and onwards. Vegeta being a Majin makes sense since in this timeline he is even more frustrated. Not being able to get his rematch with Goku while dealing with a bunch of humans who in his eyes took a 'shortcut' to power. Tien being a Majin makes sense as well since in the canon timeline he displayed his hatred for Vegeta on multiple occasions and now he is a Sayian just like him. Plus his pride in his human abilities gets hurt from this. Everyone else doesn't make sense. Krillen is living the life being married(he wants to be a sayian) and Yamcha is on cloud nine being wealthy and married as well while feeling like he plays a important role. Not to mention them having a kid as well. Yeah being a Sayian would introduce some negative influence but I don't think it would be enough to make them a Majin. Can you see Tarble being a Majin? Nope.
Then we get to how Tien acted as a Majin. Tien is in control somewhat as stated but I don't see him killing Yamcha. He would knock him away but I don't see him crossing that line. Otherwise he isn't in control and the fight between him and Krillen would've end much differently. I know that factor was pretty much tossed out the window later on for Majin Yamcha but as stated before doesn't make sense
Then we get to how the Buu fight was handled. Vegeta in this timeline would've been much stronger due to the presence of other 'False' sayians and wanting to prove to everyone what a real sayian is like. He would have a drive to become stronger, unlike his canon self at this time. We saw how motivation fuels growth in canon. So Majin Vegeta would be greatly above the one in canon and the explosion from him alone should do the trick to kill Majin Buu, not including the factor of Majin Tien joining in. But for story sake I'm leave this be(because truthfully there could be a bit more story that can be squeezed from this).
Now to the part that is bugging me the most: how Buu is handled. Being honest you just breeze right on through that part. So many factors you completely ignored and plot holes galore. For starters let's look at the beginning of Buu revival. Where's Babidi? He 100% would of been nearby after the explosion and just like in canon would be on the lookout for others while causing chaos with Fat Buu. In this time period a lot of things can happen. Here's one of them: Goku and Piccolo can teamup and take on Buu. SSJ3 Goku and Piccolo would've been much stronger than their canon counterparts(Goku originally didn't have a dedicated training partner) and as stated canon SSJ3 Goku could've beat Fat Buu so that fight would've been a wash. And we can't forget Krillen and Yamcha jumping in to help but then they can be used as plot devices to power up Buu to continue the Saga.
And that's one of the directions this arc could've went from that point. There is so many creative directions this arc could've went at this point and I *know* you can cook up something better than what you presented, especially with how crazy good some of your other what ifs are. I know you can edit some areas when you make your complete series video.
I would like to label this a fair critique but it isn't, in all seriousness (legitimately not making a joke your phrasing is just that fitting here) it could be labeled as weak and nonsensical.
First and foremost, I disagree with the notion because a character has been historically a good happy boy they can't fall victim to stuff like the Majin spell or devilmite beam, especially if a story gives legitimate reasons for that history to have moments those techniques are precisely meant to exploit. Yes I could see Tarble or any other number of characters becoming a Majin if given a good enough reason to do so. The assertion isn't that they became majin only because they were saiyan either, thats a gross oversimplification but sure go with that, it is in all fairness what I say for the sake of time in a special litterally meant to be nearly as short and concide as possible.
Secondly, the point about crossing a line is irrelevant, you've already let yourself be taken over and helped kill part of a stadium full of people alongside Vegeta? And Yamcha is just as much a source of anger as Krillin is as understated as that may be, in that moment when Tien's inhibitions are completely gone pretty much just as Vegeta's was until he got his own fill it's just on Yamcha for being there and not being prepared and having his guard down, THATS literally a creative decision that ties into all 3 characters story arcs you can easily miss if you spend too much time sad a character who can easily be revived in a arc full of revives gets done in to make sure people know its serious, this is a deadly matter to Tien in that moment.
Next this should probably be focused on because it seems like it taints a lot of the rest of this criticism, you know the GT special was a side thing that has no baring on the main story right? And beyond even that the explanation for Yamcha and Krillin's Majin transformation was simply the same as Tien's because in the broadest sense, pride in themselves as earthling martial artist and that pride being snuffed out and stepped on because of your own cowardice is more than enough motivation to make the same choice as Vegeta, and then even there it plays into character arcs and the over all story for the most part so it really just comes off as a "I'm not listening anymore too angy" point than an actual take away, Majin Yamcha and Krillin aren't occurrences that actually happen in the story continued through Part 3 and beyond, GT itself is a sloppy ridiculous mess and the special for it is literally that entire mess condensed into 15 minutes that are there just for the fun of it.
Vegeta was stronger yes I 100% agree, but also keep in mind Buu was initiall awakened and powered by the energy from bloodshed of the battles going on around him in both original canon and still here, so he too got a buff and still needed extra power to take out, also I feel like I remeber mentioning Babidi being wiped out pretty much the same as in canon and if not doing so verbally doing so in an editor's note, AND even if I have to concede this as the first relavent of your critique by adding this as something metatextual, there's no way Babidi's barrier is withstanding a blast you yourself are calculating would have been overkill for a suped up Buu, even if it were: Krillin, Goku, Piccolo, 18, 17, any of the hybrid saiyans and honestly a few other characters all could have easily come upon him in the aftermath and offed him as easily as Piccolo was done in.
Next you mention how we actually handled Buu, which ranks as the worst point here I'd say. You also say "so many factors you ignored, and plotholes galore" and then only mentioned litterally 1 thing your own prior points kinda answers for itself. Then even funnier, the suggestion you have for an occurence I guess you either felt should have happened or just consider a missed opportunity is just a 2 V 1 with 2 characters who'd rightfully rank above the characters we just established could kill him? They win, easily as you yourself admit so why even suggest this? lol Would you really count that as a more creative choice than the route I took? And If so, by what metric? Continuing the saga would have been more boring and repetitive than anything else I could have done, why? Goku can beat Buu, and if he doesn't he literally has a technique that can make any 2 mildly relavent characters able to beat Buu. Then you say something thats a contradiction, "There is so many creative directions this arc could've went at this point and I know you can cook up something better than what you presented, especially with how crazy good some of your other what ifs are."
Ending the arc early because your characters can low diff the antagonists and starting a new arc is a creative direction, this is not an objective critique, this is a "what I would have done" that's cool, but it doesn't make the buu saga nonsensical and weak, we've just very clearly demonstrated that by looking at your own arguments and observations of the story. This is one of my crazy good what-ifs, it already goes in creative directions and litterally still is to this day as I work on the sequel series, but if its not for you that's all good I'm just saying don't make mountains out of molehills or hefty but short critiques you aren't able to back up well even when you do try to elaborate.
@@PlusUltraManClearly we're not going go anywhere with this due to the way we view this story(and prior information we have on the topic) so I'll not gonna write another essay of defense and I'm cool with that(plus I rather not gather ill will towards a good content creator over what is essentially just a conflict of opinions). It is a good what if overall but the Buu Saga is still gonna be off for me. If there is one thing we can at the very least agree on is just how fast you breeze through the Buu Arc after the Majin explosion. Again there is so many things that can be added around this point. Probably another 5 or so additional mins would do it some justice. But besides that I'll leave it here.
On the side note can't wait for your next part on Zabuza. Beyond hooked to that story
Up to you my dude, there are routes to a more productive conversation, discord for example has VCs and dedicated text channels to what if discussion for example. Point still stands you didn't back your claim/critiques very well.
Woooo
Tien would be the greatest fighter even beating goku.
Any of the z fighters could become world champions, however only satan can make an empire out of this fame, dude probably made billions milking his reputation.
It does not makes sens z-fighters cannot be sayans. Wtf is bro yapping for
@Mxmx-c2l that makes it especially interesting that people seem more interested in my yapping than yours, so tf you yapping for? Lol
Especially since everyone else seems to be to grasp the concept of a hypothetical/basic Dragon Ball lore where they establish magic and all other kinds of wacky stuff can be done fairly easily without stretching the imagination much if at all.
Algorithim Fuel ⛽️
Would anyone like to see a series with Krillin being a detective, I would.
it most fun part will be krillin acutally sovling the cases and not auctally dealing with the culprit lol
What if Goku was a girl or ninja
i clicked this video and saw goku black fr
2 minutes in and all I know is that I was right to avoid the video man.
I don't know you and I don't care about the progression of your channel. I will hear your dragon Ball takes easily. Why you think I should care about the extra stuff is why I'm moving on and hoping you do better enough to be recommended back into my timeline later.
This is a hilarious amount of contempt for pretty basic stuff done for the sake of the content itself, thanks for the algo fuel tho also just so its clear, the video has chapters so this really comes off more as a skill issue😂
Womp womp
bro crashed out when he heard "thanks for watching like and sub"😭
you sound a whole lot like tech star thats a good this cause that guy has style
Golden Frieza kinda looks like Kanye West
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Algorithim Fuel ⛽️