Raw Carbon Fiber Guide - and the BEST Value Paddles Right Now
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2024
- Use affiliate code 10JOHNKEW at checkout at Six Zero and Ronbus for discounts.
Jump to sections:
0:00 Introduction
1:09 What is T700 Carbon Fiber?
3:37 Cheap Materials = Poor Durability
6:18 Top-Tier Carbon Fiber Manufacturers
7:23 Which Paddle Companies Use the Best Carbon Fiber?
8:56 Tangent: Why the Franklin Carbon STK is NOT My Favorite Paddle
10:31 Paddle Companies Materials and Cost Comparison
11:36 My Top Picks for Best Value Paddles
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Thanks for doing all the leg work to keep us consumer's well informed. You are truly providing a valuable service to the pickleball community and your efforts are appreciated 👍
By far the best paddle technology review and education. Keep it up this amazing research you bring to game!
Just ordered the Black Diamond Power based on your video, used your promo as well! Thanks for going through the effort of setting that up and this whole video.
Thoroughly enjoyed your review. After searching and surfing the paddle market back a few months ago i decided on the Six Zero Double Black Diamond as i value control over power. No regrets after around 2 months of play both travel and at home.
One of the best review channels out there. Keep up the fantastic work John. Looking forward to your thoughts on CRBN 1x and Legacy.
the most informative technology review I have seen so far on youtube...great job...glad I have the CRBN 1 x and love it
Absolutely phenomenal work put into your video! Thank you for helping me make my decision, I ordered the Rombus r1.16 with your code!
Great reviews and informative/educational video on all the terminology being used with the flooded market of new carbon fiber paddles. Used your code to order a Black Diamond due to the excellent wear and tear you experienced with that paddle. I’ve also been waiting on my Legacy Pro for over two months and am hoping it holds up as well.
Awesome video, John. Really appreciate the depth of explanation and insight.
The best paddle review I have found. Very good content, keep it up. 🙌🏻
Amazing video John, thank you so much for the material and technical aspects of the today's paddles.
Thanks for the info. I had been researching a new paddle and came across your video. I choose the Ronbus paddle you mentioned and used the code you supplied. Looking forward to playing with it. Thanks again.
Thank you so very much, John, for providing us the deep dive, granular information as to pickleball paddle construction and materials that the manufacturers are obfuscating and misleading as to.
Looking forward to you discussing in the future pickleball paddle issues as to fusing, polypropylene core quality, and polypropylene core cell size. And, of course, please be vigilant as to ongoing delamination issues and future pickleball paddle generation technologies.
So many of us are relying on you for purchase decisions. Thank you, again.
Thank you John for your valuable research!!! I appreciate the lag time between your videos, you really add value by making the video as insightful and thoughtful as you do 🙏
Thanks! Sometimes I wonder when I'm making these, if anyone else out there will find these deep dives at all interesting, haha.
@@johnkewpickleball, just keep them coming… I like the no fuss no muss approach to your videos. It helps me make better informed decisions on my purchase of sports equipment (BP). Thank you!!!!
Thanks so much for this review! I’ve been seeing the continued reference to Gen 1 and Gen 2, that thermoformed paddles are the rage, blah blah, but until your review no one had explained the difference ls or why thermoformed paddles are better. Now I get it! Thanks!
Looking forward to you additional reviews and thoughts.. Good detail on the t700!
Really great informative video, it's hard finding in-depth dives on some topics even though there's a lot of very intricate aspects. Would love to see some of the information on lead tape and the physics that go into how that changes the paddle when used with different methods. Again, amazing job man
Thanks for this video, much appreciated and learned so much
Great video John. Keep up the nice work.
Excellent video and thanks for bringing these two paddle manufacturers to my attention since I'm demoing new paddles now due to my two Joola paddles needing to be replaced. I'll definitely try these two per your recommendations - thank you again!
Thank you for the valuable information!
Great reviews! Well done John.
What an indepth video! Great job, thank you for the information
Thanks for the info. This really cleared things up the paddles that I previously use where down way too quickly.
Congratulations, you just made the BEST VIDEO OUT THERE right now. I know you’ll continue 🎉🎉🎉
John you knocked it out of the park on this carbon fiber topic. So much went into this, so thanks. The delamination is the hot topic these days, so the glue being used to attach the face to the core is the next "trade secret" we will be looking at as paddle geeks. Non Pros look at durability of their paddles, unlike pros who get them for free every tournament.
I planned to touch on the delamination topic in this video, but it quickly became a rabbithole, so I cut it out of the script and left it for future me. I haven't seen delamination with any of my thermoformed paddles (n=4), but I agree that it's an issue with thermoformed paddles. I'm optimistic that paddle companies have already largely fixed the issue with better glue (less brittle and prone to breakage).
My six zero delaminated and got a replacement under warranty. And I played a tournament against a delaminated legacy pro which had extreme and unfair pace. So it happens and I suspect fairly common but hopefully just the initial batch….
i recently realized my ben johns joola hyperion paddle was seemingly smooth at the center and i wasn’t getting the rpms anymore. i’ve had it since release. it makes a lot of sense after seeing your video. thanks.
John- Great reviews with the right mix of fact and explanation. Best on UA-cam!
Very much apricated this informative video, thank you for putting in the time and effort to do this! With the price of paddles what they are nowadays this kind of information makes it easier to select a paddle by ignoring marketing and hype!
This this is a very helpful and educational video for someone like me who is an intermediate player trying to advance his game and upgrade his paddle.
Liked. Subscribed. Bravo. Love the texhnical analysis
Thank you for such good information, very good analysis.
Very informative, bro! Thank you!!
Great work! You would usually associate the term "influencer" with channels that have millions of subscribers, and wouldn't bother with channels that don't. I just got introduced to pickleball at the age of 57, and like most I'm sure, got hooked right away! I'm currently researching for my first paddle, and will say you are my primary resource. You obviously do the scientific legwork which brings authority to the table. Keep it up!
Outstanding analysis, superb commentary and phenomenal video production John. I owe you a coffee, beer AND steak dinner. Sincere thanks.
Very informative! Thanks a million!!
Wow, great video - in depth breakdown.
Great video and education on material and quality of paddles. Im brand new to the game and a new owner of a Ronbus R1.16 because of your review. I feel I have a great piece of performance equipment at a great price based on your work. Thanks a million. Liked and subscribed.
Great roll up! I bought a Ronbus EV1.16 myself and love it. I trust an engineer, me being one of them, so I really trust Ronbus. I'm excited to see what he does next.
Appreciate the detail assessment of paddles, especially in the direct sale paddles which are more difficult to test. Took your advice on the 6.0 Black Diamond and am very happy with it. Spin, power and durability as claimed. Only criticism is one side clearly has more texture than the other but haven’t noticed a difference in performance.
Massively informative. Gonna have to put this out to the forums.
Super helpful! Thanks!
I'm glad I came across this video as a new player coming over from tennis. When a tennis racquet starts losing performance it is time to change the strings, not the entire racquet unless you're a pro. I can now eliminate a lot of brands that do not state where their T700 comes from. Thank you for saving me money in the long run.
The only thing better quality then that Toray Carbon is this video! Well done 👍🏻
I purchased the R1.16 with your discount code, thanks!
Your videos are great, the detail is excellent. Based on this video im strongly considering buying one or both of these paddles. More likely the black diamond
Great video!!! Much more real data and logical analysis than other channels. I loved the chart showing the spin generated by various paddles, but some of the names of the paddles were cut off because they were too long. Would it be possible to see a version with the full names of the paddles? Thank you and keep up the great work!
Dang this is a great video. I guess I'm a Pickleball paddle nerd because I enjoyed everything about this and I love being able to make informed decisions. Thanks for the very helpful insight. I'll make sure to use your code when I buy.
Great review!!
excellent content! 👏🏼👏🏼
Excellent review and much appreciated. Technical paddles do have a wear down factor. Thanks for your review.
Awesome video, thank you for the info.
Great discussion on carbon fiber materials in paddles.
Hi John! You got another suscriber here!! Awesome video/review, congratulations. I know many of us would LOVE your review of all currently sold thermoformed paddles. Thank you again for an extremely educational video!!👍👍
Thanks! And I do intend to make a thermoformed paddle rundown at some point
Yo Bro you da man, great information where the average joe or Josephine can understand it. Paddles cost so much these days and there are so many being circulated, it's great for serious players that don't have a big bank budget to help them narrow down their choices with REAL facts and comparisons. Love this guy he's GREAT FOR THE PICKLEBALL COMMUNITY.
thank you John! 🙏
just got me the RONBUS R1. well see how it goes
awesome review bro
Thanks. I was curious about the six zero double black diamond!
Absolutely awesome video -- thank you for all the indepth info! Keep up the great work. Will check out your videos here but if you haven't done one on Legacy Pro -- I would love to request it. thanks again
Awesome depth.
I purchased the Ronbus with your code yesterday after watching your video. Thanks for the info. I’ve been playing since June and felt like I needed an upgrade.
Excellent- I hope you enjoy it!
Thank you for your time and posting. Great information. Just bought a Gearbox Pro Power Elongated ($275), we'll see. :) I felt really sorry for JW Johnson when he first started using his Franklin paddles. All he ever did was look at the paddle after a crappy shot.
John, thank you, the scientific approach was welcomed and beneficial. I've been playing with "cheap" wooden paddles and ready to buy something better. Went with double black diamond for control (assume more beginner friendly), and used your affiliate code so you could get the kickback. Thanks!
John, circling back - both my brother and I -really- like our paddles, and I just picked up one more for my girlfriend tonight (using your affiliate code (: ). Again, thank you for the actual scientific approach to your review - better than just the "it's great" without any real comparison.
If others considering this paddle, I was using basic Amazon wooden paddles (4 paddles for 40 type of thing), where you definitely can enjoy the game and play with them, I was genuinely surprised how much more I enjoyed playing with a proper paddle.
I guess I made a pretty good choice on the ronbus r1 16. I ordered this paddle last week before even seeing this video. Well I used for the first time and wow I love it. Now after seeing your video which was very well made sir. I love it even more. Now confident about raw carbon fiber on this paddle not wearing out like most. Thank you sir.
has it started wearing out?
Wow, are you good at breaking down a complicated subject quickly. You could do any subject not just pickleball. Great video thank you.
Great vid, subbed
Sorry I asked the question too soon. But still interested in your thoughts. Thank you for all this information.
Great review on carbon face paddles. Have you done a review on the Holbrook carbon paddle out of Utah. Liked the way and as you mentioned it may wear out in a short timeframe. Thanks Vito
Excellent review and explanation of the differentiators between the large pool of RCF paddles! I suppose many players have come to the same conclusion since SixZero models are all sold out. The Ronbus looks to be a steal at the price for a Gen1 style paddle. Any word on when they will release their Gen2 model with thermoforming and edge foam? Personally, I'd like to see more paddles with edge foam but w/o thermoforming for maximum control.
Just getting ready to start learning pickleball, so watching videos to get recommendations for beginner paddles that can go with me as intermediate player.
Wow! That’s a ton of info there👍🏼
Loving your videos! I hadn’t realized that my $179 CRBN1 paddles weren’t using Toray. It finally makes sense to me now why my $100 Ronbus R3 gives me better spin. What an incredible replacement for my CRBN1 at such a low price!
How is the control and power of your Ronbus?
@@jazjablonski407 It’s excellent, in my opinion. I’m a pretty big guy though with little need for a power paddle, since I have enough strength to put away balls. I happen to think the R3 is a better paddle all around than the CRBN 1. Better spin, similar control, and slightly more put away power.
@1GrecianUrn i got a laugh out of your handle id "1grecianurn" from " The Music Man"......."trickle..trickle"...that scene and lady cracks me up..haa
@@guyrestivo Haha. Yes, my favorite musical!
I'd be interested to see where Vatic Pro fall in this line-up.
I have loved my Ronbus R1.16 for 5 mos now. Awesome spin, great value...& quality...no signs of showing wear.
Your video was definitely well spent time for interested buyers or just knowledge seekers in the confusing paddle market.
I purchased the R1.16 with your discount. My goal is to replace my Onix Z5. Hopefully this will lead to an upgrade to the R1 Pulsar in due time!
Thanks John.
Glad you liked the video, and great choice with the R1 👍
Seriously, a great video. I'm now to PB and the Amazon specials are not cutting it any more. But if I'm spending alot of money I want the thing to last.
Thank you very much. Great info. I watched this twice. And agree that you don't have to do a review on the Franklin Carbon STK, you just have to see how JW Johnson's game has gone to crap for the proof. :) Subscribed.
Great Video!
Hey Tony, good to play with you on the play footage for this one.
More footage coming on the full review. Including the times that I was on the losing end of points!
You get my Pickleball Hero award.
Excellent information!! What is your opinion on the Legacy Pro? Looking to buy one!
I agree with the other comments that said this is a great video. I like the technical approach you take in the review of these paddles and am shocked at how many people don't understand the small details used in marketing jargon that's used to make sales. As others have mentioned I think the delamination is the next huge issue that needs to be assessed and understood. Most people don't understand what delamination is and don't understand the difference between the old style construction method and thermoformed. Thermoformed paddles will launch a ball when delaminated vs. a typical honeycomb construction which feels dead after delamination. I am shocked that manufacturers are struggling so much with their resin bond of the face, handle, edge guard, etc. I work with epoxy in woodworking and would never use a cheap off brand of epoxy as I don't trust the longevity of the glue joint. The technology in resin based adhesives is very advanced therefore don't think manufacturers should be struggling so much bonding their materials together.
Hello. As someone with experience as to fusing, glue, and resin would you say that in adhering a carbon fiber face to a polypropylene core it is inevitable that they eventually fail to stay bonded? With high grade materials how long should a regularly used paddle avoid delamination?
Thank you.
GREAT REVIEW! I have been trying "carbon" paddles on the court to see what kind of feel I like and how the spin is after a paddle has been used for a bit. The difference in models is like night and day, even though they all are supposedly similar in construction and materials. I learned so much about the difference in the type of carbon used in manufacturing and the variability in the fibers' ability to stand up to play. Just out of curiosity though, I started playing with a Paddletek Element and was thinking of just purchasing the newer Phoenix Genesis for just outdoor recreational play. Do you have any thoughts on that paddle for a good fiberglass model?
I play with a lot of spin. My first paddle was a gear box and I liked it until the edge wore down from too many digs on the hard court service. I then looked to the Ben Johns before watching your review. I found your review to be spot on... the spin did wear down quickly (within 3 months) and the top of the paddle cracked after just a 7-8 weeks of play. I then took your recommendation on the Ronbus and I cant believe the spin I get from it. However I will say that when I got the paddle one side had more grit than the other. I wrote into Ronbus and they said the paddles were man made so would have slight defects and that it would still have more spin than most other paddles and he was right. But it was still a little strange to me. That being said I plan to get another one because of the spin and control I have with it.
I have been using a performance one paddle model TT. The spin was absolutely the most I have experienced. I started using it 3 four hour session a week last July and the spin rate and texture feel dropped off around January. It sounds like that is a good life span. It would be nice to hear a review on this paddle. Thanks for the information you provided.
Thanks for making it easy to understand for a beginner! I got the Prism Flash. That should get me started in the right direction. Pun intended 🙈
So the Voltaire Mach 1 would have similar spin to the Ronbus 16mm then, correct? As I am hearing they are pretty much identical paddles. My back up paddle purchase will be the Ronbus if so 😊. Great video, I subscribed👍🏼
Amazing review. Now that you have tried the Runbus R3 Pulsar and the new Pickleballape Energy paddle, which one would you recommend?
Excellent explanation on how "permanent texture" carbon fiber loses its spin! I LOVED my GRUVN MUVN16X initially thanks in large part to crazy consistent roll volleys I managed with nice spin & swing weight with solid twist weight. Then after a few months of daily play, those same balls almost suddenly started going out. I ASSumed the T700 meant forever grit, but I noticed it is now about as smooth as a Z5!
Thank you for your good work on Swing & Twist weights. I wonder if you will come up with a reliable way to quantify touch & power some day... I also own a Ronbus R1.16 which has very similar specs to the MUVN 16X but feels like a completely different animal, like hitting ball with a pillow (pure control, no pop) whereas the GRUVN has a nice balance of solid pop with control. They have identical lengths (16.5" overall w/ 5.5" grips), static weight (both of mine are 8.1oz.), swing weight spec (117), & similar twist weights (6.36 vs 6.19); however, in my hand, the GRUN feels a noticeably more nimble... Perhaps it's the thinner grip (4.125 vs 4.25) &/or the narrower "more aerodynamic" face (7.375" vs 7.5" wide)? Curious...
Awesome review im curious about prodrive?
Thanks for the review John. Do you plan on reviewing the new Onix paddles? I play the premier ct16 like it a lot but want to try carbon fiber. I tried the bison summit but it had poor power. Thanks, Dixon
Loved your cover of Rosetta Stoned.
Haha, thanks! Not much crossover between the drumming and pickleball worlds
Great video really does affect what I will buy. Only thing that I would say and Not sure if it helps. The New engage ultra says they use a R210 carbon fiber. Which if it does what they say looks promising... Proprietary is always a fun word for transparency. Seems like the new rombus is just a better version of the older crbn 2.
Copied from their sight for reference.
R210 Carbon Fiber
Proprietary chemically bonded Carbon Fiber technology for maximum texture and friction between the ball and surface for unmatched spin.
Increased surface strength
Latest technology to ensure a consistent surface compression and rebound rate for enhanced ball control and feel.
I've got to get you set up with Proton Sports and their new paddle. I know Charles would love your in depth analysis of the materials used. I'll definitely send him your info!
I asked Engage what type of carbon they use in their new Ultra line, and this was their response today: Thank you for reaching out regarding our Pursuit Ultra paddles. The carbon fiber and chemical bond that we designed is proprietary - we wanted to create a skin that was superior to that which is used in other paddles. We hope you enjoy this new Ultra.
Sounds like political doublespeak...😅
@@AJCsr 😆
Awesome video with great detailed analysis. Your channel is one of my top 3 for equipment info and technology. Will you be planning to RPM test the Legacy Pro? Perhaps you don't have it yet since many of us are waiting for it to be shipped out as they are Back-ordered.
Right, Legacy is sending me some paddles, but they've been backordered for a while now. I've been playing with some friends' Legacy paddles, though. I haven't done an official spin test yet, but the spin is definitely top tier.
Yes, durability and value (as well as performance of course) are very important to me, and probably most if not all recreational players.
Amazing video! Do you have a link to a file with your spin test results? I can't see some of the Selkirk model names.
A little bit of lead tape on the SLK Halo from Selkirk makes it easily the most consistent paddle for the money in this video, and it won't be banned soon by the PPA.
Hi John, this video has broaden up my view about carbon fiber paddles. I am based in Canada and was wondering if have you ever heard about Combat Paddles. They are a Canadian brand and currently have the Katana Model which says is a Toray T700 Carbon Fiber Paddle. It would be great if you know anything about this brand as the price point is lower than the 6.0 you recommend. Thanks!
Good job. Consider evaluating the carbon fiber sizing used rather than the fiber itself. The types of failures you are finding are typical of a matrix fiber interface failure. Toray is a premier carbon fiber company that spent millions on understanding this issue for aerospace.
Glass is better understood in this area, hence likely performs better for durability.
It would also be interesting if you could document the testing procedure for spin and insure consistence in approach so results can be better understood.