The E36 M3 sedan has always been high on my list of easily attainable and practical high performance. Anyone who thinks the little Toyobaru is more practical than an M3 sedan isn't thinking straight. There is a lot of talk about the Euro spec M3 being so much better, but US drivers are not really missing out at all, as they were all more than potent cars - especially 3.2, with excellent handling, and that's without any modification at all. As for the used car versus new car argument, used will always offer more car for the money. Remember that the E36 M3 was easily a $40k+ car when new. The only thing a warranty provides is convenience and some peace of mind, but if you begin modding or racing your car the warranty goes out window.
tim cheou A car that has been well maintained, with parts replaced when they should be, is not going to fall apart after ten years. And there's no reason it shouldn't drive as new… Older car ownership is definitely more intensive or hands-on, and a personal investment. But then that's part of the satisfaction for a lot of people who love them.
Idk about the more money being even remotely true.... 94 318I 2Dr. Blown motor $400. Complete 5.0 in peices with full harness minus ecu I paid $150. Hell the t5 I'm putting in it is the most expensive part lol... under $3000 total projected cost after I buy new heads and a cam lol Idk about where your at but your not touching a real m3 with 104k miles on body for no $3k
I did get lucky on my motor and harness buy though. But still it's a foxbody drivetrain that I'm using.. much much cheaper swapping a 5.0... Hell e46v8.com has all the mounts and a how to guide for everything you will be doing including the soldering on the stock and ford harness for under $450... deff a hell of allot cheaper than swapping a bmw v8 into an e36 I know that's much because that WAS my original plan until I started pricing bmw 5.0s and 6spd lol
HenryMania I could not agree with that. The M50 and M52 are the same engine minus intake manifold and Obd1. The manifold was designed to boost mid range power for a more linear power band for average consumers. Swapping manifolds will lose up to/around 15hp. If you like it up top that's great, but most want more balance. Yes obd1 is more simplified, but as times change we also got a system that is more precise. There are plenty of tuners out there that can handle the obd2 system, the price seems to be the bullshit. Most tuned cars out there are obd2 and BMW is no different.
Everyone always hates on the us spec M3 but it has similar 0-60 times to the euro spec. My 96’with a m50 intake manifold and aFe intake with a little weight reduction pulls low 13 second 1/4 mile times and would put it up against a euro any day. S52 are extremely under rated and amazingly reliable
I bought a cheap $5000 e36 M3 and I love it, it's my favourite car and my pride and joy. I would highly recommend them for anyone looking for a quick, reliable track car that can compete with a lot of more expensive vehicles.
Even my 328 is absolutely,hands down...without a doubt the BEST car I've ever owned,driven and worked on. I've never had a car that I crave to drive if it's been a couple days
Are you shitting me? Ofcourse an //M car over anything else. Why is this even a question? The M3 is a benchmark for so many and the e36 is one hell of a performance car and bargain. The BRZ needs to get boosted. The handling may be close to the M3 but it won't come close to the throttle feel, the steering feel, and smooth engine feel that the M3 has. BMW all day baby !
Not true, e36 m3 is faster in the straight line, but toyota 86 is a better sports car. Unlike you, I have driven both cars. The e36 does not handle as good as the 86. It is faster in a straight line though, by quite a big margin.
Man get ur keyboard warrior ass outta here and don't waste time assuming what people have driven or not. I own 2 e46's, 328i for winter and M3 for everything else. I've considered a BRZ and was willing to trade in my M3 if I liked it enough. It is the best car to buy and I'd buy it over a Nissan gtr any day of the week. I'm sorry but it doesn't come near an e36 M3 in any way, even handling. Being a new car, ofcourse it will feel like a better car but no its not a better handler. How do I know? Cuz I upgraded from an e36 M3 sedan to my e46. So don't assume I'm talking outta my ass if you are the one assuming shyt about me. You've driven both cars and I've owned Bimmers for over 8 years now and extensively track all ny cars at Cayuga motorsports Ontario. Have a nice day, dickhead.
In Canada, someone brought in a euro spec M3 EVO in right hand drive with the 6 speed gearbox. I know someone on the forums who owns it and he said he prefers that car over any M3 that came and will cone after it lol. I was impressed with the north American version, I can only imagine the Euro version. I really do love the BRZ/FRS because they are like the saviours of real drivers cars in this era. While everything is become a bore and numb to drive, the toyobaru twins really add that ol'school goodness back to driving. However, it still does not compare to an M3 and the only thing it has against the M3 is the 'new car smell and feel' lol.
647killa The M3 I drove had over 120,000 miles and it drove as if it was brand new. The American M3 I believe it was all the same minus the engine. I think it had 250 horses compared to the euro which had 330... The BRZ is a nice car, It has a good amount of power and you can hit the corners at a good amount of speed with confidence, but whoever is saying the M3 isn't as good has clearly never driven one... My personal favorite is the E46 M3 with the 6 speed manual, now that was a BLAST to drive, the one I drove was pretty much brand new with 20k on it..Insane machine. I now drive a 330D m sport, too bad they don't offer these in Canada, 38 MPG with 265 horse and nearly 400 torque, crazy machine
I own a 95' m3 (great condition) and it turns heads everyday I drive it. There is that sleek but aggressive style to it that you could only understand if you own one. If I could I would go back to the 90s I would buy one brand new.. BRZ doesn't stand a chance don't get why these two are being compared.
Completely and utterly agree. My dad owns the euro e36, '95 M3 and it's in mint condition, black on white. It's a nasty car, don't know why someone would take a Subi over a BMW. I've got a '94 325i thats beat up but runs great, rallying it soon so, I'm a BMW guy through and through.
I own a 328is and a M3, and have two friends with a BRZ. The BRZ handles like it is in rails and provides a good experience. The weight difference is noticeable too, but sometimes can be little rough over bumps at times. The E36's have the more addictive in-line 6 and sound and better shifter IMO. Neither car is particularly fast, but not slow either. I like the looks of the M3.
You could get a cheap E36 (318i) in coupe, sedan, or convertible for cheap, drop a bigger motor (US iron M52, S54, or LS), race prep, etc. for less than a BRZ. You could throw some power adders on a iron US 2.8l.
I have an E36 convertible in estriol blue on Era correct BBS wheels w 50k miles. It's taken me more than a few years to replace parts so it looks like it rolled of the showroom. People love this model car and they tell me all the time. It's a great looking car, in the right color and condition.
Just picked a Boston Green with decent paint and really decent interior. Already gotten many compliments. Now I am just refreshing all the suspension and few other things. Such a fun little car and even though the US got the poverty motor still very under rated
+Cursedfenix I also just picked up a Boston Green. Such a gorgeous color! It helps green is my favorite color, but we just don't see that many green sports cars on the road anymore. We definitely stand out. That being said, I believe the GT86 (brz/frs) has more potential. And reliability stands with the GT86 as well. 20+ year old Bimmers are not known for their reliability. But the m3 will be be going up in value long term, it is a m3.
trust me GREEN IS BAD LUCK, YOU BLEND WITH TREES AND GRASS. HAD A GREEN E38 AND DIDNT LISTEEN TILL SOMEONE CLAIMED THEY DIDNT SEE ME WHEN THEY TBONED AND ALMOST KILLED ME . NOW I GOT A SILVER TITANIUM 6 CYL. STAY AWAY FROM DARK GREEN BRO. I LOVE GEEN TOO BUT WHAT U LOVE COULD KILL U. AND YES I AGREE ON IT BEING ONE OF THE BEST COLORS BESIDE BABY BLUE METALIC AND BABY BLUE INTERIOR
Should this even be a debate? A brand new BRZ that makes 200bhp which means you're gettin about 180-185 whp (made to look fast), against a E36 that is getting ready to become a collectors car that produces 240hp US and 321hp UK hp, cheaper, basically indestructible, faster and more fun to drive? .. I've seen E36s easily get up to 300k miles and still run... How about that for your "Warranty" .. If u pick a BRZ over an E36 ... Please do not call yourself a Car Enthusiast.
I get a lot of compliments on my E36, I've also never been a huge fan of common cars. I see lots of BRZ's where I live every day, but I see an E36 M3 once a month if that. I take pride in my car being 19 years old and in good condition.
I run E36 325 on track days :) boot it for 800 USD with 305 T. K. on it. Installed new China TA shocks, chained brakes to new OEM and oil! IT RUNS SMOOTH LIKE A BUTTER. And i can guaranty it will outperform most of the cars they make today!
the e36 is not to old to be reliable DD Ive owned two and a e46 and all of them are great DD cars. plus in 5 years the BRZ is going to feel worn out and cheap while the BMW retains its comfortable well designed styling. to compare the two is apples to oranges.
apparently, everyone whose ever not owned one thinks they are as expensive to own as a Bentley. that couldn't be farther from the truth because they are as reliable as a Subaru or a Honda if they are properly taken care of. they are damn near free to own if you do the work yourself.
Agreed 100%. I have been to Germany and the way they flog their cars on the Autobahn, I'll be surprised to see a Japanese or american car survive. Most people travel to work every day using the Autobahn at speeds in excess of 200km/h, now let that sink in lol. True story, my 240sx was worse to own than my old e36. I had oil burning issues, oil leaks, frame rails rusting out, boost leaks, interior falling apart etc. The e36 had its issues, but it would always start, get me where I need to be, and bring me back with no hassle.
the only major issues i had with my e36 was the dreaded overheating problem. and instead of tearing it all apart as it was rusted in the rear and under the frame rails i sold it for a profit and bought a super clean chassis that needed a engine swap. it now sits in a warm garage but it is a street-able gas sipper. drove it across the country without a hiccup.
A good e36 m3 costs around 7-10k. The ones I've seen for that price have clean interior, straight body, perfect paint, and a clean low mile engine. The brakes on the e36 m3 are amazing! Along with that, the power is amazing!
In Europe, Finland. BMW E36 M3 anyday, just comparing the prices, you can get 3.2 liter engine (320 bhp) around 10 000 euros (12 700 USD), where BRZ costs here 35 000 euros (44 400 USD). Yea I know it is way overpriced in here, they even cutted it´s price down 15 000 euros this year, yes it was 50 000 € !!! So yes this was pretty obvious in my part, M3 always!
I own an E36, great car but the problem is the plastics used in the car become brittle and you end up with a lot of broken interior or engine parts. The intake piping is prone to splitting and causing vacuum leaks but at least the engine itself is solid. If you don't mind replacing a lot of things as they break or plan to strip it out, go for the M3.
Why are there a lot of UA-cam reviews that picture the e36 m3 shitty? The E36 m3 will go down as one best bmw chassis ever made. No euro motor. Big dickens deal. The performance #'s are almost the same except top end! E36 M3 forever!
I think these guys talk too much. They are trying to make a show about nothing really. This segment would be better if they cut to the chase and just get down to facts quickly and stop the waffle and none sense 15 mins should be around 5 mins
I'm a happy subaru owner (04 WRX) but ended up getting a 98 M3 Sedan a year ago. I like the BRZ, but the value of an older M3 and potential with the older car fit perfectly in my budget. plus if/when stuff breaks, i have a reason to upgrade.
The thing is back then the BMW was much more expensive therefore made with way better materials and higher level of quality, where as the BRZ is just a great option for a new car. Here in Ontario, Canada they are as common as civics and corollas, which means when the BRZ gets older parts will be readily available. I'd still go with the M3 all day though.
I just bought a 1999 e46 328i for 4k 2 weeks ago and I cannot get over how well it drives! Id take that over a brz lol it's got a few tasteful mods though such as a bilstein sport suspension an eibach lowering kit and springs angel LEDs and depo hid lights the cars been turning heads everywhere I drive it :):):) These guys are just foolish if they would take a brz over a bmw
I started off with a 2000 bmw 328i 5MT. Dude those things are not slow I don't care what anyone says. That's what got me in love with bmws and I'm now on my 3rd e46. Cheers !
I own a 98 m3 cabriolet, drives great, plenty of power and makes me smile. It feel like a very quality piece of engineering, great seats, great steering, great sound. reliable but a little thirsty.
I have an 1994 BMW 325i with just over 220,000 miles on it. Super clean and love it. Just fun and spirited to drive. Picked it up for 2,700 and made it my daily driver. Over my 2012 Hyundai Elantra. Love my E 36. No major problems. 😍😍
Bottomline is, BRZ is for fanboys. Only real men will choose a BMW M3. I have driven a BMW M3 E36 before, its absolutely sick for a sub 20 year old car. Its no brainer comparison really. Try buying a BRZ today and try your best to maintain it for 20 years. I bet it won't sound as good and perform as well as to the day you bought it. But that's not the case with the M3. Give it the same love as you would give the BRZ 20 years back, it will not disappoint you. Sure you would lose horsepower and you won't have that 5 second 0-60 acceleration, it will still run the way you want it to. And also, the sound of the flat 4 engine of the BRZ is trash compared to the straight 6 of the M3. How could those 2 fanboys miss that difference?
A Subaru Powered Toyota. The horror. I'd rather take the bus. You likely have ridden the short bus if you're comparing this mismatched japscrap to any BMW.
I think technically that is correct but come on - Its a "Subaru Designed Toyota Engine". Yota is the big dog in this partnership so they can just tell ya anything - as they always do.
Check out our earlier video about the E30 M3 on AFTER/DRIVE. Unfortunately the E30 M3 is not selling for $15k anymore. The values are going sky-high for a nice one.
This isn't a discussion about what Mr. Saab should buy. He is not considering an E36 M3. This is just a discussion about what you, the viewers, would do.
I dont understand why so many people dislike this video, i like car talk, its like how friends and i talk bout cars, its nice having people in the field speaking in such a laid back way, yes chris harris is a great journalist but bringing up names because of association is a joke just enjoy the free content they are providing
People keep talking about power for the M3, but forgetting about the extra weight, which is almost 500 lbs. The power to weight ratio is almost exactly the same between the two cars. The BRZ/FR-S has a close ratio 6 speed, and still gets 30 mpg average. The handling is better on the BRZ because it has a stiffer chassis, much lower center of gravity, shorter wheelbase, and all around more modern with about 20 years of newer technology than the E36. Don't get me wrong, I love the E36's, they are great cars, but having driven both (I own an FR-S that sees regular track duty) the FR-S wins hands down. With just better tires on the FR-S/BRZ, it totally transforms the car into a different animal. I have been on track with highly modified E36s only to pass them and run lap times faster than them, while I have just better tires, coilovers and brake pads. My FR-S is running lap times that are the same as modified Lotus Elise's, Mitsubishi Evo's, Subaru STi's,and even new BMW M3 E92! Don't believe me? Watch my vids of me at the track on my page. If you're looking for a rock solid daily driver that is reliable, gets 30 mpg, comfortable, and you can take the track and beat on (with warranty) then the BRZ/FR-S is the choice for me. The E36 is definitely a great car though with a lot of potential, and has proved to be a timeless design.
Mark Slide Squad You make an excellent case. This is not the hands-down bang-for-the-buck win for the M3 EVERYONE is claiming it to be. 15K gets you an amazing condition M3 of this era, 20K gets you either a very lightly used BRZ with darn near all the warranty remaining or an S54 swapped//M3. With the weight differential, 20K price range, the difference is about 80hp in the BMW's favor and reliability/warranty in favor of the BRZ. Both are considerable factors for the average joe who is trying to maximize their automotive fun equation. Now throw in parts cost, aftermarket, and track times and things really get interesting. It really depends on what you are doing, what your budget is, your ability/patience with cars, and whether "just the right" USED bimmer or subie comes along. Knowing exactly whether or not the bimmer is tore up is a really, really tricky proposition. The BMWs gradually get looser over time, even driving mine everyday I often don't notice how bad something has got until I replace it! And in a couple of years, the FR-S/BR-Z will be worth
I've owned a BMW e36 328i for 2years now,bought it with 130,000miles on it and now it has 155,000miles and it still runs like a gem,as long as you take care of it and do regular maintenance you wont have any problems.
The E36 M3- The M that almost wasnt I own a 99 m3 Convertible, brought it back from the brink with my bare hands. Freshen'd up rear sub-frame mounts and KW Suspension did wonders for overall feel of the car. I also bit the bullet a bought a matching hardtop just to be unique. As far as the engine is concerned, being a sibling of the 328i (m52) motor is NOT a bad thing in anyway (considering they still make the 328i model). The m3's linear power delivery makes for a more visceral driving experience. Not to mention interchangeable parts with its e36 i6 siblings makes this car a bargain to own and maintain. Ask your self this... if the European M3 is sooo much better (don't get me wrong its friggin dope) then why are their 0-60 times nearly identical? So in retrospect the whole fiasco of the US almost not getting the e36 M3... they mistaken created a faster 328i... with ported and polished heads, stronger valves and lifters... increase rev limit ... and 3.2 liters of displacement..... and that's a bad thing? BRZ or That? "That" indeed has a much cooler origin story.
I had a 89 325i e30 convertible and now i have a 97 318i e36. The e30 was raw power fun to drive the e36 is not as fun to drive but rides better and has more confort. I just learned that the e36 has a timing chain vs a belt which makes it a much better design.
I own a 1997 320i E36 convertible (euro). We bought it NEW with 0.0 km, and now, this car only haves 49'000 km on it! I love this car! We didn't had any problems with it.
I bought a 2005 Z4 3.0i and have no complaints. Summer daily-driven, plus it's a convertible and has more pull than either the BRZ or M3. Faster than both as well. Gas mileage is amazing, I average 30 and get 35+ on the freeway. Just makes you feel a bit more distinct and special. Only complaint is the hard ride. Have an S4 for the winter and hauling people.
i just got an e36 m3 sedaqn 97 and i am totally in love with it .the surprise power it packs is amazing for a car that old and it is totally a drivers car
I bought my USA e36 M3 for $2200. I spent $1000 on suspension, $150 on a 3.91 welded diff. I drove 3 hours to the track drifted all day and drove the 3 hours back with no problems with me m3 e36. I have done two drift track days so far this year with no problems on the track with my e36 m3. I still don't have more than 4.5K into my e36 after owning a year and drifting it a year.
Anyone who know cars ; mechanically, would obviously pick the M3! Its very well built! even After the simple fixes cooling system, rtabs, rear shock mounts, etc...
I already made this choice on the flesh and went for a Pearl White FR-S with the 6MT (of course). A 993, 964 or even a decent SC were also on the running for my attentions. Ultimately, the fact that I have to commute tipped the balance towards the new car. I haven't looked back and I have Zero regrets. I have fallen possibly more deeply in love with this car than I did with my new STi (06') which was a car, looks-wise, only a mother could love; or a Rally fan. I LOVE this car!
i had a stock 1992 325i and i was just behind a brz racing up a hill. i was surprised, i thought he would walk on me. but it turned out to be very close :)
I sold my e36 325i (1992 non-vanos w/lsd) after 7 years of ownership and got an FRS. It was a tough choice that I dwelled on for 2 years. The BMW is a much higher quality car, even at 20 years old and many many miles. For me it came down to falling behind on maintenance items and not having the time/place to work on it. If you have a garage and you're ok wrenching on it, go with the e36. The FRS feels more closely matched with the 325i/328i so I wouldn't even rule those out. I love the e36, but as a daily driver, the FRS was the right choice for me.
Although the North American E36 M3 got the M50B30 or the M52B32 (haha) and not "true" M engine IMO, I'd still get the E36. Nothing compares to the sound and feel of a N/A I6 (although there are no ITBs), plus the E36 is loads cheaper than the BRZ. Also the BRZ will depreciate much quicker, especially when brand-new.
I really like the BRZ, but a well prepped e36 is a pure joy to drive - especially on the track. I've owned one for 14 years, and with the right mods such as track coilovers, links and control arms, Brembos,oil cooler, Recaro seats, rollbar, R-compound tires, etc, it's a great serious track day car. You can pretty easily get around 300hp with cams, intakes parts, headers., etc. You also have BMW reliability when run hard - It's never failed me in over 90 track days. Either car is a good choice.
In 1997 I took delivery of a new E36 M3 with auto transmission. That Summer Car and Driver magazine published an article about their project to determine the best handling car above $30,000. Car and Driver tested every hot car available in the US market at that time--a Ferrari F360, a Boxster, Porsche 911, Honda NSX., RX7. they gave the top prize to the E36 M3. It broke away gradually and balanced and predictably and was unperturbed by mid-corner bumps. I drove my 4 door for 9 years.
I think one of the factors i would consider for myself is the work that Crawford is doing in the motor department. Slap a TRA Kyoto kit on there and a crawford motor pushing 450whp reliably and that is a hell of a lot of fun. (definitely more than the stock price though) BMW is classy though. I feel like the bang for your buck and ability to upgrade tremendously through aftermarket solutions means they win here.
Mark Kaminer Doing the same thing with my 97 328is. This thing is so easy to work on compared to most anything else you would get with similar performance.
I own two E36s: A '99 M3 with light modifications and a '95 325is with a full M3 suspension conversion. Both are outstanding vehicles despite their age and will blow away the BRZ on or off of the track. If you've never driven both cars back to back then I highly recommend you do so.
Well, I bought both so to speak. After my SRT-4 Neon was totaled by a hail storm a few months later I bought a Ultramarine FR-S June 1st of 2012. After I sold my 2nd gen Integra in November of 2012 I purchased a Dakar Yellow OBD1 M3 in January of this year in an effort to keep milies of my brand new FR-S. So I swapped out two good FWD cars for two great RWD cars.
I own a E36 and I'm 6'1" and I can fit in the back seats easily - the BRZ is a tight fit for a child. The trunk is massive for a car its size (same size as the BRZ which has a tiny one) SO much more practical. The fact that a Non M3 E36 standard can deliver loads of fun, BMW oversteer - take that everyday!
I have spent many hours in the Saab 9000. It handles fine and has a smooth ride. It is not a track car. It is completely stable at ultra high speeds very efficient and flawless in the snow or the rain.
E36 M3 is a great starter M/sports car For the younger generation just getting into these type of cars. It has moderate power, but not enough to kill, and great handling. Best part is, as an older car it is easy to work on and a great platform to learn how to preform basic maintenance and tuning. When working on a car yourself you feel a strong bond and emotional connection with it. If your looking for a car to connect with id go E36.
I agree on the 3.2 liter engine. They mostly have around 300 hp. But the 3.0 liter engines always put down great power numbers. I owned one in 2005 and it had 160.000 km (100.000 miles) on the clock and on the dyno it put down 295 hp stock!
After owning an E36 M3 and driving a BR-Z I would say there are definitely pros and cons. I liked the BR-Z as it drove well, was very balanced and predictable, but what I didn't like was the lack of power. There was no kick in the pants that made it exciting to get on the gas. My M3 felt like more of a raw driver's car and had that excitement I look for. It was light, handled well, and you could throw it around and feel good about it. I would lean M3 and spend the money on upgrading it.
I am with you Butt105, The E36 is my favorite M3. It weighed in at just under 3000 pounds in the states that is just over 200 pounds more than the BRZ. It had a more pedestrian engine than the other M cars. Man from what I remember it was a ton of fun.
I followed a brz in my e36 m3 (3.2 euro ) a few days ago. Despite my car being worth approx 8 times less I didn't feel the slightest bit jealous. Its done over 200k miles, used every day, has never broken down, and has enough space for a young family.
I just picked up a nicely maintained e36 M3 with 109k miles for about 8500 with taxes and everything, its a 97 and its still tight as drum, handles like a dream and the power is intoxicating (even tho its not the euro version). I would highly recommend it over the BRZ.
As someone who has ridden and driven both, obviously, the BRZ is much more modern and reliable (with a warranty), but I have to say as far as driving mechanics go, they are very similar in terms of feel. Both have great steering and responsiveness. Where things are drastically different is in terms of acceleration. After driving the E36 M3, the BRZ feels a bit gutless and doesn't thrill in the same way the BMW does.
I own an E36 M3, and have driven a stock BRZ at HPDE. Stock, the BRZ did pretty well with its little Prius tires. Would love to drive a track prepped BRZ and see what it can really do. The only thing I dislike about the BRZ is the engine, it sounds bad, and seems like a total misfit in the car. No doubt an aftermarket turbo kit would help. But seems like this car would need $$$ thrown at it, on top of being $30k to start with. If the goal is a track rat, the E36 is the winner, as it needs less in mods to be a good track car, and the straight six motor sings a good song!
Owned a 98 M3 for many years, and loved it. $ = per fun factor it is an awesome bargain! It has a huge aftermarket. Its easy to work on and one of the best drivers car ever. I drive a 07 S6 and a daily but am in the market for a clean E36 M3 again> I missed it way too much!
I love my E36 ragtop, just had it dyno'd and it actually gained HP over the last 149,000 miles. OK it likely was just a hot engine to begin with, but it came in with 183.59 HP at the rear wheels. For a car that was 190 HP at the flywheel when new.
E36 all the way!!!! Great chassis with decades worth of R&D in racing as well as loads of aftermarket components. Even the US model is an amazing chassis/car an you can still find nice and well maintained e36 models available at a reasonable price. I picked up e36 M3 for less that $8k and 80k miles on it, coupe techno-violet 5spd. Its been a great car and a fun project to work on myself and was able to choose the bits/pieces to my liking.
I have an E36 M3. 1999, 101k miles. I have had it for a few years. I considered the BRZ but honestly the E36 is a better buy. I even considered the E46 before I bought my E36, but the E36 is way easier to maintain and is very close performance wise. The E36 M3 is not just a faster 328i, it has a lot of chassis and suspension upgrades that the 328 didn't get. The E36 M3 is a unique experience, the E46 is a lot more complicated and so is the E30. Go drive a few clean E36 M3's and you'll love it!
E36 also has more potential power to be had, being a 3.0 or 3.2L engine. Either N/A or F/I way, it's still going to make more power due to the displacement.
As far as the choice I would make today: The BRZ just doesn't have enough headroom for me. In 1997, I had to special order my new M3 to get the head room I like--4 doors, without a sunroof and with mechanical seats. I recently test drove a Cadillac ATS with the 2 liter turbo--my M3 had a lot more grunt when you stomp on it--even though the specs are higher on the ATS.
i like both bmw and bra but in my opinion i would go for the brz the parts market is crazy big i like the looks its different than everything out there
E36 M3, this car was one of the best handling cars, not only In its class, but in any price range back in the 90's. A lot of people overlook this car because of the advancements bmw made with the e46, but tbh this car is as close to the recipe of the e30 m3 than any other model. It's a simple recipe that is more for the people who actually drive it and put it to work.. For the amount people are asking for nowadays, it really is the bargain of the century
I paid $4,500 for my '95 e36 and it's in great condition :) the previous owner just refreshed the VANOS and cooling system so I got pretty lucky. Love my e36 :)
if you finance most of the car, you can drop a decent bit of cash into an aftermarket warranty, then you dont have to worry bout it at all. that said, stick to big bank warranties like fidelity, they're more established and its usually not difficult to fight them for warranty repairs
I own both a 99 328is and a 99 M3. They really are quite different cars. The 328is is a fun rev happy little car, sounds great and really begs to be pushed. The M3 is a comparatively torquey, much more of a rocket in a straight line. The suspension is completely different in character as well. I actually don't like the sound of the M3 as it is much, deeper with less rasp. Both are great fun cars. I've driven an FRS extensively as well, it is slow in a straight line compared to even the 328is. However it is much stiffer and corners with much more agility than the M3. Setup with the same tires, the M3 and Frs are also very comparable in autocross, it's a balance of power vs. handling. You cant really loose with any of them, they are all great fun to drive, but as the all around daily, the M3 wins.
I've seen some around here for $27-35K and BRZ's are close to that up here in Canada. You make a good point about a Base C5. Lots of room for power adder/suspension modifications.
If your a young kid buying your own first car get the BRZ because of warranty. If your parents are buying you a car, good luck getting either. Less the e36 M3. M3 for the established young adult that can now afford a 2nd car because it's something you've wanted and afford needed repairs.
I thought this was true when I bought mine 3 years ago. So I only used it as a weekend car. But when my dd broke down last fall, I had to start driving my e36 M3 everyday. In the past 10 months I've put 10k miles on it(now at 180k miles) and have had zero problems. I keep it maintained and clean and have enjoyed it so much I still haven't fixed my mustang. This includes out of stated trips and track days. Just a different viewpoint.
I owne a 95 e36, 230,000 miles, and is possibly the best car ever made. Between the motor taking whatever you throw at it, the amazing suspension. buy a decent one for 5-6k and spend 2-3k on upgrades/fixes. youll never regret it
Just got a 98' M3/4/5 w/106K mi for $10500 (excellent condition w/ new oem shocks). 3180#, Awesome torque curve. Driving one or the other around town with stock suspension (I HAVE) BMW all the way. I have a 06 S2k as well. M3 Steering, not as good as either. No car payment = just get a Z4M or Z3 steering rack installed for $4-600. Have $400 a month to spend on mods or save up for the boost or S54 or LSx swap. Both cars are basically limited to 255s. my mom likes my back seat. 4dr wins!
Toyota and Subaru collaborated to make the GT86, the Scion FR-S is sold in North America, the Toyota GT86 is sold in Europe and Japan and the Subaru BR-Z is sold everywhere
As an E36 owner myself, I would probably take the E36 over the BRZ. In terms of swapping the engine, it takes 30 minutes to take the front of the car off, and all the engines bolt up to all the transmissions. It's easy enough to get a Euro-spec M3 here in the states by swapping the motor into a 325is with an updated suspension. For the price you could easily have a wicked M3 for the price of a stock BRZ. Even the 325is is really fun to drive, and if you take your time, is worth repairing.
I think a better question is BRZ vs 996 carrera. Running costs might be higher on the 911 but the water-cooled engines, especially on the refreshed 996s, are rather bulletproof, and you can find a 996 c4s with less than 40,000 miles for less than 25,000.
My friend has a 95 e36 m3 and he loves it! looks amazing and handles great! The only bad thing is that it lacks power (my 98 3000gt sl pulls next to it) but with about six grand you can get the dinan supercharger and up the hp tremendously!
I have driven Toyota GT86 (Subaru BRZ) and it was a really nice car. Really nice sporty looks and feeling, surprisingly nice sound for such a small engine and nice handling. I have actually even considered buying one in case I needed brand new quite inexpensive nice sporty car for daily driver. But performance wise the E36 M3 absolutely annihilates the GT86/BRZ, on the straight line, through the corners, you name it. Also the sound is much more brutal in E36 M3. I know since I have one (the 3.0 euro version). I made some nice road trips in my M3 during the summer and it's amazing how quick and excellent to drive that car is considering that it is already more than 20 years old. Even most brand new cars are no match for it (even most of the sporty ones).
You guys should've done BRZ or S14 240sx. You can build a track/drift/daily driver for muchhh less money. both have the same concept, RWD sports car, size, power, etc.
As I said last week, when sujested the m3, its proper drivers car with great handling and better engine sound, may be does not look as good as a s2k but it is a thrill to drive. By the way, the american cars had a restricted ecu for the resctriction on emisions, witch is very easy to remove.
C5 Corvette Z06. 05 - 07 C6 Corvette Z51. Honda S2000. Mazda FD RX7. BMW E46 M3. 99 - 02 Porsche Carrera S. Nissan 300ZX. And if you do some digging? You can find some MKIV Supras between the years of 93 - 94. There's PLENTY of cars out there that will get you more performance and looks. You want the BRZ, GT-86 FRS? Go ahead. Buy one. But just remember. There's a lot of cars out there. Just pick the one you can live and smile with...
My E36 BMW M3 3.2 is American spec with a little over 50K miles. The OBD2 engine management software is easy to upgrade and it'll still passes smog in CA no problem. It's a 5 speed of course but you do have to peddle it pretty hard to get good results. You can easily get wheelspin all the way to 3rd gear if you don't know how to drive it (even with new Pilot Supersports). My E36 M3 has way more power than traction so it's WAY more fun than my friend's frs…... 0-60 5.2 seconds all day. Do not turn the ASC all the way off, you have been warned!
E36 M3 all the way!!! Best M3 BMW ever built!
Agreed
Did you forget about e46?? Lol
The E36 M3 sedan has always been high on my list of easily attainable and practical high performance. Anyone who thinks the little Toyobaru is more practical than an M3 sedan isn't thinking straight. There is a lot of talk about the Euro spec M3 being so much better, but US drivers are not really missing out at all, as they were all more than potent cars - especially 3.2, with excellent handling, and that's without any modification at all. As for the used car versus new car argument, used will always offer more car for the money. Remember that the E36 M3 was easily a $40k+ car when new. The only thing a warranty provides is convenience and some peace of mind, but if you begin modding or racing your car the warranty goes out window.
tim cheou A car that has been well maintained, with parts replaced when they should be, is not going to fall apart after ten years. And there's no reason it shouldn't drive as new… Older car ownership is definitely more intensive or hands-on, and a personal investment. But then that's part of the satisfaction for a lot of people who love them.
I love my ///M3 E36 and wouldn't trade for brand new BRZ for sure, I wish we had Real Euro Spec S50B32 with 321 HP Stock in US thou! ;)
We do it's called swap the engine from an e46 m3 into your e36 m3 lol
Michael Maners Nooo It's called: more Time & Money buddy!!! LOL!
Idk about the more money being even remotely true....
94 318I 2Dr. Blown motor $400. Complete 5.0 in peices with full harness minus ecu I paid $150. Hell the t5 I'm putting in it is the most expensive part lol... under $3000 total projected cost after I buy new heads and a cam lol
Idk about where your at but your not touching a real m3 with 104k miles on body for no $3k
I did get lucky on my motor and harness buy though. But still it's a foxbody drivetrain that I'm using.. much much cheaper swapping a 5.0... Hell e46v8.com has all the mounts and a how to guide for everything you will be doing including the soldering on the stock and ford harness for under $450... deff a hell of allot cheaper than swapping a bmw v8 into an e36 I know that's much because that WAS my original plan until I started pricing bmw 5.0s and 6spd lol
HenryMania I could not agree with that. The M50 and M52 are the same engine minus intake manifold and Obd1. The manifold was designed to boost mid range power for a more linear power band for average consumers. Swapping manifolds will lose up to/around 15hp. If you like it up top that's great, but most want more balance. Yes obd1 is more simplified, but as times change we also got a system that is more precise. There are plenty of tuners out there that can handle the obd2 system, the price seems to be the bullshit. Most tuned cars out there are obd2 and BMW is no different.
Everyone always hates on the us spec M3 but it has similar 0-60 times to the euro spec. My 96’with a m50 intake manifold and aFe intake with a little weight reduction pulls low 13 second 1/4 mile times and would put it up against a euro any day. S52 are extremely under rated and amazingly reliable
I bought a cheap $5000 e36 M3 and I love it, it's my favourite car and my pride and joy. I would highly recommend them for anyone looking for a quick, reliable track car that can compete with a lot of more expensive vehicles.
Even my 328 is absolutely,hands down...without a doubt the BEST car I've ever owned,driven and worked on. I've never had a car that I crave to drive if it's been a couple days
Are you shitting me? Ofcourse an //M car over anything else. Why is this even a question? The M3 is a benchmark for so many and the e36 is one hell of a performance car and bargain. The BRZ needs to get boosted. The handling may be close to the M3 but it won't come close to the throttle feel, the steering feel, and smooth engine feel that the M3 has. BMW all day baby !
Not true, e36 m3 is faster in the straight line, but toyota 86 is a better sports car. Unlike you, I have driven both cars. The e36 does not handle as good as the 86. It is faster in a straight line though, by quite a big margin.
Man get ur keyboard warrior ass outta here and don't waste time assuming what people have driven or not. I own 2 e46's, 328i for winter and M3 for everything else. I've considered a BRZ and was willing to trade in my M3 if I liked it enough. It is the best car to buy and I'd buy it over a Nissan gtr any day of the week. I'm sorry but it doesn't come near an e36 M3 in any way, even handling. Being a new car, ofcourse it will feel like a better car but no its not a better handler. How do I know? Cuz I upgraded from an e36 M3 sedan to my e46. So don't assume I'm talking outta my ass if you are the one assuming shyt about me. You've driven both cars and I've owned Bimmers for over 8 years now and extensively track all ny cars at Cayuga motorsports Ontario. Have a nice day, dickhead.
647killa Lol I've driven a BRZ and a EURO spec M3, absolutely no comparison... tom987456321 shut up man, drive then speak.
In Canada, someone brought in a euro spec M3 EVO in right hand drive with the 6 speed gearbox. I know someone on the forums who owns it and he said he prefers that car over any M3 that came and will cone after it lol. I was impressed with the north American version, I can only imagine the Euro version. I really do love the BRZ/FRS because they are like the saviours of real drivers cars in this era. While everything is become a bore and numb to drive, the toyobaru twins really add that ol'school goodness back to driving. However, it still does not compare to an M3 and the only thing it has against the M3 is the 'new car smell and feel' lol.
647killa The M3 I drove had over 120,000 miles and it drove as if it was brand new. The American M3 I believe it was all the same minus the engine. I think it had 250 horses compared to the euro which had 330... The BRZ is a nice car, It has a good amount of power and you can hit the corners at a good amount of speed with confidence, but whoever is saying the M3 isn't as good has clearly never driven one... My personal favorite is the E46 M3 with the 6 speed manual, now that was a BLAST to drive, the one I drove was pretty much brand new with 20k on it..Insane machine. I now drive a 330D m sport, too bad they don't offer these in Canada, 38 MPG with 265 horse and nearly 400 torque, crazy machine
I own a 95' m3 (great condition) and it turns heads everyday I drive it. There is that sleek but aggressive style to it that you could only understand if you own one. If I could I would go back to the 90s I would buy one brand new.. BRZ doesn't stand a chance don't get why these two are being compared.
Completely and utterly agree. My dad owns the euro e36, '95 M3 and it's in mint condition, black on white. It's a nasty car, don't know why someone would take a Subi over a BMW. I've got a '94 325i thats beat up but runs great, rallying it soon so, I'm a BMW guy through and through.
Hell yeah love it!
Shout out I got an e36 m3 vert .1999 3.2
The M3 would be $72,000 in todays money and a BRZ is $29,495, the fact that they can even be compared shows how good the BRZ is.
I own a 328is and a M3, and have two friends with a BRZ. The BRZ handles like it is in rails and provides a good experience. The weight difference is noticeable too, but sometimes can be little rough over bumps at times. The E36's have the more addictive in-line 6 and sound and better shifter IMO. Neither car is particularly fast, but not slow either. I like the looks of the M3.
You could get a cheap E36 (318i) in coupe, sedan, or convertible for cheap, drop a bigger motor (US iron M52, S54, or LS), race prep, etc. for less than a BRZ. You could throw some power adders on a iron US 2.8l.
i think it depends on what shoes you wear. oxfords, or jordans.
I have an E36 convertible in estriol blue on Era correct BBS wheels w 50k miles. It's taken me more than a few years to replace parts so it looks like it rolled of the showroom. People love this model car and they tell me all the time. It's a great looking car, in the right color and condition.
Just picked a Boston Green with decent paint and really decent interior. Already gotten many compliments. Now I am just refreshing all the suspension and few other things. Such a fun little car and even though the US got the poverty motor still very under rated
+Cursedfenix love the green with the brown interior. Very hard to find. 👍
+Cursedfenix I also just picked up a Boston Green. Such a gorgeous color! It helps green is my favorite color, but we just don't see that many green sports cars on the road anymore.
We definitely stand out.
That being said, I believe the GT86 (brz/frs) has more potential. And reliability stands with the GT86 as well. 20+ year old Bimmers are not known for their reliability.
But the m3 will be be going up in value long term, it is a m3.
trust me GREEN IS BAD LUCK, YOU BLEND WITH TREES AND GRASS. HAD A GREEN E38 AND DIDNT LISTEEN TILL SOMEONE CLAIMED THEY DIDNT SEE ME WHEN THEY TBONED AND ALMOST KILLED ME . NOW I GOT A SILVER TITANIUM 6 CYL. STAY AWAY FROM DARK GREEN BRO. I LOVE GEEN TOO BUT WHAT U LOVE COULD KILL U. AND YES I AGREE ON IT BEING ONE OF THE BEST COLORS BESIDE BABY BLUE METALIC AND BABY BLUE INTERIOR
Sweet! I love my 99 estoril blue. I just wish mine was a coupe
Should this even be a debate? A brand new BRZ that makes 200bhp which means you're gettin about 180-185 whp (made to look fast), against a E36 that is getting ready to become a collectors car that produces 240hp US and 321hp UK hp, cheaper, basically indestructible, faster and more fun to drive? .. I've seen E36s easily get up to 300k miles and still run... How about that for your "Warranty" .. If u pick a BRZ over an E36 ... Please do not call yourself a Car Enthusiast.
yeeeeee. mines still has 41,670 miles. and its perfect shape. i would totally chose a E36 over a lambo or ferrari. like e36 is just LIFEEE
Actually the make like 165-170 to the wheels stock, thats just what ive seen though.
depends on the lambo or ferrari. But you'd be an idiot to do that. you could sell the italian car and buy like 10 e36s
I get a lot of compliments on my E36, I've also never been a huge fan of common cars. I see lots of BRZ's where I live every day, but I see an E36 M3 once a month if that. I take pride in my car being 19 years old and in good condition.
I run E36 325 on track days :) boot it for 800 USD with 305 T. K. on it. Installed new China TA shocks, chained brakes to new OEM and oil! IT RUNS SMOOTH LIKE A BUTTER. And i can guaranty it will outperform most of the cars they make today!
the e36 is not to old to be reliable DD Ive owned two and a e46 and all of them are great DD cars.
plus in 5 years the BRZ is going to feel worn out and cheap while the BMW retains its comfortable well designed styling.
to compare the two is apples to oranges.
Nicely put, but people here just don't get it. That new car smell must mean everything huh ?
apparently, everyone whose ever not owned one thinks they are as expensive to own as a Bentley. that couldn't be farther from the truth because they are as reliable as a Subaru or a Honda if they are properly taken care of. they are damn near free to own if you do the work yourself.
Agreed 100%. I have been to Germany and the way they flog their cars on the Autobahn, I'll be surprised to see a Japanese or american car survive. Most people travel to work every day using the Autobahn at speeds in excess of 200km/h, now let that sink in lol. True story, my 240sx was worse to own than my old e36. I had oil burning issues, oil leaks, frame rails rusting out, boost leaks, interior falling apart etc. The e36 had its issues, but it would always start, get me where I need to be, and bring me back with no hassle.
the only major issues i had with my e36 was the dreaded overheating problem. and instead of tearing it all apart as it was rusted in the rear and under the frame rails i sold it for a profit and bought a super clean chassis that needed a engine swap. it now sits in a warm garage but it is a street-able gas sipper. drove it across the country without a hiccup.
A good e36 m3 costs around 7-10k. The ones I've seen for that price have clean interior, straight body, perfect paint, and a clean low mile engine. The brakes on the e36 m3 are amazing! Along with that, the power is amazing!
In Europe, Finland. BMW E36 M3 anyday, just comparing the prices, you can get 3.2 liter engine (320 bhp) around 10 000 euros (12 700 USD), where BRZ costs here 35 000 euros (44 400 USD). Yea I know it is way overpriced in here, they even cutted it´s price down 15 000 euros this year, yes it was 50 000 € !!! So yes this was pretty obvious in my part, M3 always!
I own an E36, great car but the problem is the plastics used in the car become brittle and you end up with a lot of broken interior or engine parts. The intake piping is prone to splitting and causing vacuum leaks but at least the engine itself is solid. If you don't mind replacing a lot of things as they break or plan to strip it out, go for the M3.
Why are there a lot of UA-cam reviews that picture the e36 m3 shitty? The E36 m3 will go down as one best bmw chassis ever made. No euro motor. Big dickens deal. The performance #'s are almost the same except top end! E36 M3 forever!
Love my E36 M3 !!!! Maybe not the fastest car on the block but it handles like a dream !!
I think these guys talk too much. They are trying to make a show about nothing really.
This segment would be better if they cut to the chase and just get down to facts quickly and stop the waffle and none sense
15 mins should be around 5 mins
I'm a happy subaru owner (04 WRX) but ended up getting a 98 M3 Sedan a year ago. I like the BRZ, but the value of an older M3 and potential with the older car fit perfectly in my budget. plus if/when stuff breaks, i have a reason to upgrade.
Wow BMW didnt like America when m3 e36 came out. European 3.0 has 286hp and 3,2- 321hp
The thing is back then the BMW was much more expensive therefore made with way better materials and higher level of quality, where as the BRZ is just a great option for a new car. Here in Ontario, Canada they are as common as civics and corollas, which means when the BRZ gets older parts will be readily available. I'd still go with the M3 all day though.
This guy is so awkward... Who's idea was it to let him host a show?
I also have troubles listening to him, it seems like he has problems explaining stuff, and he looks werid ...
Do this comparison with the new 2022 BRZ, it's now faster than the E36 M3.
I just bought a 1999 e46 328i for 4k 2 weeks ago and I cannot get over how well it drives! Id take that over a brz lol it's got a few tasteful mods though such as a bilstein sport suspension an eibach lowering kit and springs angel LEDs and depo hid lights the cars been turning heads everywhere I drive it :):):)
These guys are just foolish if they would take a brz over a bmw
I started off with a 2000 bmw 328i 5MT. Dude those things are not slow I don't care what anyone says. That's what got me in love with bmws and I'm now on my 3rd e46. Cheers !
hey man totally agree!
I own a 98 m3 cabriolet, drives great, plenty of power and makes me smile. It feel like a very quality piece of engineering, great seats, great steering, great sound. reliable but a little thirsty.
How can you guys compare one of the best cars ever with a japonese econobox
I have an 1994 BMW 325i with just over 220,000 miles on it. Super clean and love it. Just fun and spirited to drive. Picked it up for 2,700 and made it my daily driver. Over my 2012 Hyundai Elantra. Love my E 36. No major problems. 😍😍
Bottomline is, BRZ is for fanboys. Only real men will choose a BMW M3. I have driven a BMW M3 E36 before, its absolutely sick for a sub 20 year old car. Its no brainer comparison really. Try buying a BRZ today and try your best to maintain it for 20 years. I bet it won't sound as good and perform as well as to the day you bought it. But that's not the case with the M3. Give it the same love as you would give the BRZ 20 years back, it will not disappoint you. Sure you would lose horsepower and you won't have that 5 second 0-60 acceleration, it will still run the way you want it to. And also, the sound of the flat 4 engine of the BRZ is trash compared to the straight 6 of the M3. How could those 2 fanboys miss that difference?
e36 all day. I have a 96 328 is with a s50b32 things a beast. had it for 12 year and it still put a smile on my face driving it lol.
A Subaru Powered Toyota. The horror. I'd rather take the bus. You likely have ridden the short bus if you're comparing this mismatched japscrap to any BMW.
Lol it's actually a Toyota peered Subaru.
I think technically that is correct but come on - Its a "Subaru Designed Toyota Engine". Yota is the big dog in this partnership so they can just tell ya anything - as they always do.
Check out our earlier video about the E30 M3 on AFTER/DRIVE. Unfortunately the E30 M3 is not selling for $15k anymore. The values are going sky-high for a nice one.
How about an used 08ish corvette or a BRZ fort he same price?
The e36 is going to cost less than both of those though
bob smith e36 only got 240hp while a corvette get 300+hp
The BRZ clutch felt super funky last time I checked one out too. Love my '99 e36 M3.
i hate this show, you guys don't drive cars
Then gtfo. car's are all about history ricer.
This isn't a discussion about what Mr. Saab should buy. He is not considering an E36 M3. This is just a discussion about what you, the viewers, would do.
I dont understand why so many people dislike this video, i like car talk, its like how friends and i talk bout cars, its nice having people in the field speaking in such a laid back way, yes chris harris is a great journalist but bringing up names because of association is a joke just enjoy the free content they are providing
The One and THE only bmw m3 e36, hands up or down witch-ever you prefer ;)
People keep talking about power for the M3, but forgetting about the extra weight, which is almost 500 lbs. The power to weight ratio is almost exactly the same between the two cars. The BRZ/FR-S has a close ratio 6 speed, and still gets 30 mpg average. The handling is better on the BRZ because it has a stiffer chassis, much lower center of gravity, shorter wheelbase, and all around more modern with about 20 years of newer technology than the E36. Don't get me wrong, I love the E36's, they are great cars, but having driven both (I own an FR-S that sees regular track duty) the FR-S wins hands down. With just better tires on the FR-S/BRZ, it totally transforms the car into a different animal. I have been on track with highly modified E36s only to pass them and run lap times faster than them, while I have just better tires, coilovers and brake pads. My FR-S is running lap times that are the same as modified Lotus Elise's, Mitsubishi Evo's, Subaru STi's,and even new BMW M3 E92! Don't believe me? Watch my vids of me at the track on my page. If you're looking for a rock solid daily driver that is reliable, gets 30 mpg, comfortable, and you can take the track and beat on (with warranty) then the BRZ/FR-S is the choice for me. The E36 is definitely a great car though with a lot of potential, and has proved to be a timeless design.
And for the record, I am speaking about the North American E36 M3, I know they had a lot more power in Europe and better this that and the other ;)
Mark Slide Squad
You make an excellent case. This is not the hands-down bang-for-the-buck win for the M3 EVERYONE is claiming it to be. 15K gets you an amazing condition M3 of this era, 20K gets you either a very lightly used BRZ with darn near all the warranty remaining or an S54 swapped//M3. With the weight differential, 20K price range, the difference is about 80hp in the BMW's favor and reliability/warranty in favor of the BRZ. Both are considerable factors for the average joe who is trying to maximize their automotive fun equation. Now throw in parts cost, aftermarket, and track times and things really get interesting. It really depends on what you are doing, what your budget is, your ability/patience with cars, and whether "just the right" USED bimmer or subie comes along. Knowing exactly whether or not the bimmer is tore up is a really, really tricky proposition. The BMWs gradually get looser over time, even driving mine everyday I often don't notice how bad something has got until I replace it!
And in a couple of years, the FR-S/BR-Z will be worth
I've owned a BMW e36 328i for 2years now,bought it with 130,000miles on it and now it has 155,000miles and it still runs like a gem,as long as you take care of it and do regular maintenance you wont have any problems.
The E36 M3- The M that almost wasnt
I own a 99 m3 Convertible, brought it back from the brink with my bare hands. Freshen'd up rear sub-frame mounts and KW Suspension did wonders for overall feel of the car. I also bit the bullet a bought a matching hardtop just to be unique. As far as the engine is concerned, being a sibling of the 328i (m52) motor is NOT a bad thing in anyway (considering they still make the 328i model). The m3's linear power delivery makes for a more visceral driving experience. Not to mention interchangeable parts with its e36 i6 siblings makes this car a bargain to own and maintain. Ask your self this... if the European M3 is sooo much better (don't get me wrong its friggin dope) then why are their 0-60 times nearly identical? So in retrospect the whole fiasco of the US almost not getting the e36 M3... they mistaken created a faster 328i... with ported and polished heads, stronger valves and lifters... increase rev limit ... and 3.2 liters of displacement..... and that's a bad thing? BRZ or That? "That" indeed has a much cooler origin story.
I did most of the mods u talked about(including the m50 intake) and yes,I have the same power as the M3 with the insurance note of a 328
I had a 89 325i e30 convertible and now i have a 97 318i e36. The e30 was raw power fun to drive the e36 is not as fun to drive but rides better and has more confort. I just learned that the e36 has a timing chain vs a belt which makes it a much better design.
I own a 1997 320i E36 convertible (euro). We bought it NEW with 0.0 km, and now, this car only haves 49'000 km on it! I love this car! We didn't had any problems with it.
I bought a 2005 Z4 3.0i and have no complaints. Summer daily-driven, plus it's a convertible and has more pull than either the BRZ or M3. Faster than both as well.
Gas mileage is amazing, I average 30 and get 35+ on the freeway. Just makes you feel a bit more distinct and special. Only complaint is the hard ride.
Have an S4 for the winter and hauling people.
i just got an e36 m3 sedaqn 97 and i am totally in love with it .the surprise power it packs is amazing for a car that old and it is totally a drivers car
I bought my USA e36 M3 for $2200. I spent $1000 on suspension, $150 on a 3.91 welded diff. I drove 3 hours to the track drifted all day and drove the 3 hours back with no problems with me m3 e36. I have done two drift track days so far this year with no problems on the track with my e36 m3. I still don't have more than 4.5K into my e36 after owning a year and drifting it a year.
Anyone who know cars ; mechanically, would obviously pick the M3! Its very well built! even After the simple fixes cooling system, rtabs, rear shock mounts, etc...
I already made this choice on the flesh and went for a Pearl White FR-S with the 6MT (of course). A 993, 964 or even a decent SC were also on the running for my attentions. Ultimately, the fact that I have to commute tipped the balance towards the new car. I haven't looked back and I have Zero regrets. I have fallen possibly more deeply in love with this car than I did with my new STi (06') which was a car, looks-wise, only a mother could love; or a Rally fan. I LOVE this car!
i had a stock 1992 325i and i was just behind a brz racing up a hill. i was surprised, i thought he would walk on me. but it turned out to be very close :)
I sold my e36 325i (1992 non-vanos w/lsd) after 7 years of ownership and got an FRS. It was a tough choice that I dwelled on for 2 years. The BMW is a much higher quality car, even at 20 years old and many many miles. For me it came down to falling behind on maintenance items and not having the time/place to work on it. If you have a garage and you're ok wrenching on it, go with the e36. The FRS feels more closely matched with the 325i/328i so I wouldn't even rule those out. I love the e36, but as a daily driver, the FRS was the right choice for me.
Although the North American E36 M3 got the M50B30 or the M52B32 (haha) and not "true" M engine IMO, I'd still get the E36. Nothing compares to the sound and feel of a N/A I6 (although there are no ITBs), plus the E36 is loads cheaper than the BRZ. Also the BRZ will depreciate much quicker, especially when brand-new.
Thanks Andrew! You get it :)
I really like the BRZ, but a well prepped e36 is a pure joy to drive - especially on the track. I've owned one for 14 years, and with the right mods such as track coilovers, links and control arms, Brembos,oil cooler, Recaro seats, rollbar, R-compound tires, etc, it's a great serious track day car. You can pretty easily get around 300hp with cams, intakes parts, headers., etc. You also have BMW reliability when run hard - It's never failed me in over 90 track days. Either car is a good choice.
In 1997 I took delivery of a new E36 M3 with auto transmission. That Summer Car and Driver magazine published an article about their project to determine the best handling car above $30,000. Car and Driver tested every hot car available in the US market at that time--a Ferrari F360, a Boxster, Porsche 911, Honda NSX., RX7. they gave the top prize to the E36 M3. It broke away gradually and balanced and predictably and was unperturbed by mid-corner bumps. I drove my 4 door for 9 years.
Take the M3 any day of the week, who was dumb enough to compare the two??
I think one of the factors i would consider for myself is the work that Crawford is doing in the motor department. Slap a TRA Kyoto kit on there and a crawford motor pushing 450whp reliably and that is a hell of a lot of fun. (definitely more than the stock price though)
BMW is classy though. I feel like the bang for your buck and ability to upgrade tremendously through aftermarket solutions means they win here.
Just picked up a 96 E36 328i love the shit out of it. High miles but good engine and trans and bringing her back to new.
Also only paid 2k
I picked mine up as a project car restoring her to new.
Mark Kaminer Doing the same thing with my 97 328is. This thing is so easy to work on compared to most anything else you would get with similar performance.
+Mark Kaminer i got a 97 and it has 234k miles got her for 1200 bucks and i have never been zo happy so much fun
I own two E36s: A '99 M3 with light modifications and a '95 325is with a full M3 suspension conversion. Both are outstanding vehicles despite their age and will blow away the BRZ on or off of the track. If you've never driven both cars back to back then I highly recommend you do so.
Well, I bought both so to speak.
After my SRT-4 Neon was totaled by a hail storm a few months later I bought a Ultramarine FR-S June 1st of 2012.
After I sold my 2nd gen Integra in November of 2012 I purchased a Dakar Yellow OBD1 M3 in January of this year in an effort to keep milies of my brand new FR-S.
So I swapped out two good FWD cars for two great RWD cars.
I own a E36 and I'm 6'1" and I can fit in the back seats easily - the BRZ is a tight fit for a child. The trunk is massive for a car its size (same size as the BRZ which has a tiny one) SO much more practical. The fact that a Non M3 E36 standard can deliver loads of fun, BMW oversteer - take that everyday!
I have spent many hours in the Saab 9000. It handles fine and has a smooth ride. It is not a track car. It is completely stable at ultra high speeds very efficient and flawless in the snow or the rain.
E36 M3 is a great starter M/sports car For the younger generation just getting into these type of cars. It has moderate power, but not enough to kill, and great handling. Best part is, as an older car it is easy to work on and a great platform to learn how to preform basic maintenance and tuning. When working on a car yourself you feel a strong bond and emotional connection with it. If your looking for a car to connect with id go E36.
I agree on the 3.2 liter engine. They mostly have around 300 hp. But the 3.0 liter engines always put down great power numbers. I owned one in 2005 and it had 160.000 km (100.000 miles) on the clock and on the dyno it put down 295 hp stock!
After owning an E36 M3 and driving a BR-Z I would say there are definitely pros and cons. I liked the BR-Z as it drove well, was very balanced and predictable, but what I didn't like was the lack of power. There was no kick in the pants that made it exciting to get on the gas. My M3 felt like more of a raw driver's car and had that excitement I look for. It was light, handled well, and you could throw it around and feel good about it. I would lean M3 and spend the money on upgrading it.
I am with you Butt105, The E36 is my favorite M3. It weighed in at just under 3000 pounds in the states that is just over 200 pounds more than the BRZ. It had a more pedestrian engine than the other M cars. Man from what I remember it was a ton of fun.
You can find clean turbo/supercharged e36 m3s for around 14-16k that have been pretty much fully refreshed and upgraded in all the right parts.
I followed a brz in my e36 m3 (3.2 euro ) a few days ago. Despite my car being worth approx 8 times less I didn't feel the slightest bit jealous. Its done over 200k miles, used every day, has never broken down, and has enough space for a young family.
I just picked up a nicely maintained e36 M3 with 109k miles for about 8500 with taxes and everything, its a 97 and its still tight as drum, handles like a dream and the power is intoxicating (even tho its not the euro version). I would highly recommend it over the BRZ.
As someone who has ridden and driven both, obviously, the BRZ is much more modern and reliable (with a warranty), but I have to say as far as driving mechanics go, they are very similar in terms of feel. Both have great steering and responsiveness. Where things are drastically different is in terms of acceleration. After driving the E36 M3, the BRZ feels a bit gutless and doesn't thrill in the same way the BMW does.
I own an E36 M3, and have driven a stock BRZ at HPDE. Stock, the BRZ did pretty well with its little Prius tires. Would love to drive a track prepped BRZ and see what it can really do. The only thing I dislike about the BRZ is the engine, it sounds bad, and seems like a total misfit in the car. No doubt an aftermarket turbo kit would help. But seems like this car would need $$$ thrown at it, on top of being $30k to start with. If the goal is a track rat, the E36 is the winner, as it needs less in mods to be a good track car, and the straight six motor sings a good song!
Owned a 98 M3 for many years, and loved it. $ = per fun factor it is an awesome bargain! It has a huge aftermarket. Its easy to work on and one of the best drivers car ever. I drive a 07 S6 and a daily but am in the market for a clean E36 M3 again> I missed it way too much!
Did u ever put urself back into a e36?
I love my E36 ragtop, just had it dyno'd and it actually gained HP over the last 149,000 miles. OK it likely was just a hot engine to begin with, but it came in with 183.59 HP at the rear wheels. For a car that was 190 HP at the flywheel when new.
E36 all the way!!!! Great chassis with decades worth of R&D in racing as well as loads of aftermarket components. Even the US model is an amazing chassis/car an you can still find nice and well maintained e36 models available at a reasonable price. I picked up e36 M3 for less that $8k and 80k miles on it, coupe techno-violet 5spd. Its been a great car and a fun project to work on myself and was able to choose the bits/pieces to my liking.
The E36 M3 is the far more fun car to drive! I've driven both and the BRZ, to be honest, was a bit underwhelming considering all the hype I had heard
I have an E36 M3. 1999, 101k miles. I have had it for a few years. I considered the BRZ but honestly the E36 is a better buy. I even considered the E46 before I bought my E36, but the E36 is way easier to maintain and is very close performance wise. The E36 M3 is not just a faster 328i, it has a lot of chassis and suspension upgrades that the 328 didn't get. The E36 M3 is a unique experience, the E46 is a lot more complicated and so is the E30. Go drive a few clean E36 M3's and you'll love it!
E36 also has more potential power to be had, being a 3.0 or 3.2L engine. Either N/A or F/I way, it's still going to make more power due to the displacement.
Funny thing is that I bought a 1993 BMW 325IS for $700. It automatic 171k miles almost pink from the red but it lives in Arizona.
As far as the choice I would make today: The BRZ just doesn't have enough headroom for me. In 1997, I had to special order my new M3 to get the head room I like--4 doors, without a sunroof and with mechanical seats. I recently test drove a Cadillac ATS with the 2 liter turbo--my M3 had a lot more grunt when you stomp on it--even though the specs are higher on the ATS.
i like both bmw and bra but in my opinion i would go for the brz the parts market is crazy big i like the looks its different than everything out there
E36 M3, this car was one of the best handling cars, not only In its class, but in any price range back in the 90's. A lot of people overlook this car because of the advancements bmw made with the e46, but tbh this car is as close to the recipe of the e30 m3 than any other model. It's a simple recipe that is more for the people who actually drive it and put it to work.. For the amount people are asking for nowadays, it really is the bargain of the century
Excellent choice, sir. Probably the best M chassis, along with the e30.
I paid $4,500 for my '95 e36 and it's in great condition :) the previous owner just refreshed the VANOS and cooling system so I got pretty lucky. Love my e36 :)
if you finance most of the car, you can drop a decent bit of cash into an aftermarket warranty, then you dont have to worry bout it at all.
that said, stick to big bank warranties like fidelity, they're more established and its usually not difficult to fight them for warranty repairs
I own both a 99 328is and a 99 M3. They really are quite different cars. The 328is is a fun rev happy little car, sounds great and really begs to be pushed. The M3 is a comparatively torquey, much more of a rocket in a straight line. The suspension is completely different in character as well. I actually don't like the sound of the M3 as it is much, deeper with less rasp. Both are great fun cars. I've driven an FRS extensively as well, it is slow in a straight line compared to even the 328is. However it is much stiffer and corners with much more agility than the M3. Setup with the same tires, the M3 and Frs are also very comparable in autocross, it's a balance of power vs. handling.
You cant really loose with any of them, they are all great fun to drive, but as the all around daily, the M3 wins.
I've seen some around here for $27-35K and BRZ's are close to that up here in Canada. You make a good point about a Base C5. Lots of room for power adder/suspension modifications.
If your a young kid buying your own first car get the BRZ because of warranty. If your parents are buying you a car, good luck getting either. Less the e36 M3. M3 for the established young adult that can now afford a 2nd car because it's something you've wanted and afford needed repairs.
metalslug26 I'm gonna get a mint pass down E36
E36 and some upgrades drives, looks, and sounds better
I thought this was true when I bought mine 3 years ago. So I only used it as a weekend car. But when my dd broke down last fall, I had to start driving my e36 M3 everyday. In the past 10 months I've put 10k miles on it(now at 180k miles) and have had zero problems. I keep it maintained and clean and have enjoyed it so much I still haven't fixed my mustang. This includes out of stated trips and track days. Just a different viewpoint.
I owne a 95 e36, 230,000 miles, and is possibly the best car ever made. Between the motor taking whatever you throw at it, the amazing suspension. buy a decent one for 5-6k and spend 2-3k on upgrades/fixes. youll never regret it
Just got a 98' M3/4/5 w/106K mi for $10500 (excellent condition w/ new oem shocks). 3180#, Awesome torque curve. Driving one or the other around town with stock suspension (I HAVE) BMW all the way. I have a 06 S2k as well. M3 Steering, not as good as either. No car payment = just get a Z4M or Z3 steering rack installed for $4-600. Have $400 a month to spend on mods or save up for the boost or S54 or LSx swap. Both cars are basically limited to 255s. my mom likes my back seat. 4dr wins!
Toyota and Subaru collaborated to make the GT86, the Scion FR-S is sold in North America, the Toyota GT86 is sold in Europe and Japan and the Subaru BR-Z is sold everywhere
As an E36 owner myself, I would probably take the E36 over the BRZ. In terms of swapping the engine, it takes 30 minutes to take the front of the car off, and all the engines bolt up to all the transmissions. It's easy enough to get a Euro-spec M3 here in the states by swapping the motor into a 325is with an updated suspension. For the price you could easily have a wicked M3 for the price of a stock BRZ.
Even the 325is is really fun to drive, and if you take your time, is worth repairing.
I think a better question is BRZ vs 996 carrera. Running costs might be higher on the 911 but the water-cooled engines, especially on the refreshed 996s, are rather bulletproof, and you can find a 996 c4s with less than 40,000 miles for less than 25,000.
My friend has a 95 e36 m3 and he loves it! looks amazing and handles great! The only bad thing is that it lacks power (my 98 3000gt sl pulls next to it) but with about six grand you can get the dinan supercharger and up the hp tremendously!
I have driven Toyota GT86 (Subaru BRZ) and it was a really nice car. Really nice sporty looks and feeling, surprisingly nice sound for such a small engine and nice handling. I have actually even considered buying one in case I needed brand new quite inexpensive nice sporty car for daily driver. But performance wise the E36 M3 absolutely annihilates the GT86/BRZ, on the straight line, through the corners, you name it. Also the sound is much more brutal in E36 M3. I know since I have one (the 3.0 euro version). I made some nice road trips in my M3 during the summer and it's amazing how quick and excellent to drive that car is considering that it is already more than 20 years old. Even most brand new cars are no match for it (even most of the sporty ones).
You guys should've done BRZ or S14 240sx. You can build a track/drift/daily driver for muchhh less money. both have the same concept, RWD sports car, size, power, etc.
its a cool novelty but all you get is an extra 0-20whp, glass headlights and a plaque. for quite a bit more money.
I have an E36 M3, gathering for an LS swap. Will have 10-12K total invested, 400hp and ready to rock
As I said last week, when sujested the m3, its proper drivers car with great handling and better engine sound, may be does not look as good as a s2k but it is a thrill to drive. By the way, the american cars had a restricted ecu for the resctriction on emisions, witch is very easy to remove.
C5 Corvette Z06. 05 - 07 C6 Corvette Z51. Honda S2000. Mazda FD RX7. BMW E46 M3. 99 - 02 Porsche Carrera S. Nissan 300ZX. And if you do some digging? You can find some MKIV Supras between the years of 93 - 94.
There's PLENTY of cars out there that will get you more performance and looks. You want the BRZ, GT-86 FRS? Go ahead. Buy one. But just remember. There's a lot of cars out there. Just pick the one you can live and smile with...
My E36 BMW M3 3.2 is American spec with a little over 50K miles. The OBD2 engine management software is easy to upgrade and it'll still passes smog in CA no problem. It's a 5 speed of course but you do have to peddle it pretty hard to get good results. You can easily get wheelspin all the way to 3rd gear if you don't know how to drive it (even with new Pilot Supersports). My E36 M3 has way more power than traction so it's WAY more fun than my friend's frs…... 0-60 5.2 seconds all day. Do not turn the ASC all the way off, you have been warned!