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Very interesting. Also a good example of so many modern devices - extremely difficult to repair and replacements extortionately priced. So many manufacturers are being increasingly greedy.
I really wanted to know what that board was in the ECM driver. I'm really happy that you open this up. One little comment is try not to use the word, like, so much.
I do have an issue with saying "like" a lot, and I would say "little" and "here" too much also, but I've been actively trying to work on minimizing saying those words. Thank you for the feedback!
You are a brave man. I thought I was crazy with some of the repairs I have attempted (like rewinding stator and rotor of Westerbeke 4k generator by hand). But, this was insane. I would have chucked it when I saw it potted in all that silicone!
Most of my experience with these controllers is replacing the motor with either a single speed or dual speed conventional motor. We have an AC unit that had one of these motors and it was only wired for a single speed. It wasn't a hard choice, $800 ECM motor, or $100 single speed conventional motor. I just used a blower relay connected to the 24vac control wire to switch the 240vac power to the new motor. Been working fine for 2 years now. Seems stupid to use a multi speed motor in a machine that only ever operates at one speed.
For sure will probably replace this one with a PSC motor if this one dies. Unfortunately, this furnace does appear to use different speeds at different parts of its cycle. But much like you did, some relays should do the trick also.
Holy!!! Wow that was an awesome teardown! So my blower is shuddering back and forth exactly like you described. I think Ill order a replacement ECM. Then Ill get to work at replacing all of the caps and see if that fixes the problem and Ill let ya know if that solves the problem. Once again that was awesome to watch, I do exactly the same thing but not with your level of expertise. I am an electronic technologist and an electrician. Ill let you know what I find out once i replace the caps and ill let you know how my existing caps test out.
@@ThatElectronicsFool I’ve ordered a used replacement, thanks for the LE tip, but that only gets me a functioning, for now, used part that is prone to failure so I’ll need to get my old on repaired as a spare. I’ll concentrate on removing the silicone only around the caps from the top side. Then I’ll cut out a piece of the bottom steel shell in the same area so I can replace only the caps. I’ll test the old ones and let ya know if the new ones fix the problem and how the old ones tested. My goal is to have a working spare
@@waltersavonian7551any updates? Found the issues causing your motor to shudder n twitch back n forth? I have the same issue and the same ge model ECM 2.3. going to use a replacement off Amazon., but want to know if your issues are fixed?
Great job.. they claim these are programmable units , I see it only has one serial EEprom, in your opinion could this be done thru the 16 pin connector? they claim you have to go back to the OEM and buy the exact part number for you application which in most cases is impossible. I am thinking you can pull the DATA off your old part and put it into any module as long as it meets the horse power requirements any cheap EEprom reader would work just not sure about going thru the 16 pin connector. worst case scenario would be to dig out the silicone around the EEprom. your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. thanks again for the great job.
I'm fairly certain that the programming is done through the 16 pin connector, going by the limited information I've seen. There doesn't appear to be any dedicated pins for serial communication or anything like that, so I'm guessing some of the function pins double as a programming interface with the right signals/protocol. I've seen images of "ECM Toolbox" software that is supposed to be used with some interface device to program the modules. It seems there's not much information floating around out there about these things. I believe power would need to be applied to the module to do any programming as the 16 pin connector side looks to be completely isolated from the control electronics. As for pulling the data off the old EEPROM, or just swapping it from the old module to the new one, that may definitely be an option, assuming the programmed data is actually stored there and not internally in the microcontroller. I think it would be fairly easy to dig out the area around the EEPROM and heat it up with hot air to pull off, but would need to be careful to prevent melting the connector for the motor, since it's in close proximity to the part.
@@ThatElectronicsFool Thanks for the reply, I have seen a picture of the GE ECM programming module that the manufactures used to program these endbells and it definitely has a 16 pin connector attached to it. My theory is that all 3/4 horse endbells are manufactured exactly the same and each manufacturer just loaded their speed profiles into the eeprom depending on which piece of equipment the motor was installed into. That is the only thing that makes sense to me but I am not an electrical engineer I am a manufacturing engineer. If my theory is correct I could pull the OEM data from the EEPROM and load it into a new endbell... pics enclosed. UPDATE: turns out the EEPROM is blank with no information whatsoever stored on it so obviously my theory is incorrect or someone is not being truthful about these motors. You sounded like you know a lot about circuit design so your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Sorry to be such a pain but I am just one of those guys that need to know how things work. could not upload the pics. sorry
Wait...so those GE motors or more or less a big honkerin' brushless DC motor....and the controller is a ESC? Holy Hell...that makes it SO much easier to operate...the board that sits on the top is more or less a full bridge rectifier w/ filter caps to provide high current DC in to run the motors, the board under that black silicon POT material is an ESC that runs it at "high or low RPM's) So instead of a few HUNDRED DOLLARS, even a decent high KVA hobby ESC (that can handle 220VDC+) could be used to run this thing (with proper heat sinking due to the high current needed to run the motor of course) [that big honkering steel shell] could be used. Or am I way off base here? Does that ECM run off the 24VAC provided by the little transformer from the control board, but the outer board run on the 220VAC from the mains?
I think one of the few things that these have that a regular ESC wouldn't have is the feedback pin to let the rest of the system know that it's operating properly. I believe the steel shell being used as a heatsink is aided by the large volume of air that is moving over it when the blower is operating. The ECM is powered internally from the high voltage rectifier/capacitor board. The 16pin connector only uses the 24VAC to trigger the different operating modes.
I’m curious about this, as I’d like to just get my ecm motor to run a single speed(something like ‘high’ maybe)using an on/off switch or having it triggered by the thermostat control board would be better. Just trying to get the ac working before temps get bigger than 80(inside, they’re already higher outside🥵). I was also curious if these motors would be able to be used in some kind of vehicle or other application, as it seems like many people replace them as a unit, the old (and good working)motor gets tossed.
Hi, first thank you very much for going into so much detail and tearing the module down, believe it or not I watched the whole thing :) Now, right at the end @51:55 you are talking about the thin line on the board probably acting as fuse. What do you know, I checked it on my failed module and that thin print is burned out! There is no connectivity anywhere from the big fat circuit over to that short island circuit of the output wire. What do you suggest I should connect it with to repair the circuit? Basically, I'm now sure what gauge wire to use to stay similar to OEM spec.
I would think the thin trace of copper would probably be around 3-5 amps equivalent fuse, guessing by the horsepower rating of these motors, but if yours burned out, it could be indicative of something more serious being bad further into the controller or the motor windings. Something may have shorted.
@@ThatElectronicsFool I have checked for short to ground on it and it looks good. Keep in mind this is a 16 year old AC and couple of years ago I had to change the control board because of water damage. So I'm thinking probably it was some kind issue when the control board was acting up that caused it to become weak and eventually gave up. I will jumper it with a thin copper conductor and see how it goes. Although for now I bought a used replacement from eBay and blower motor is working fine. I will keep this as backup since these are no longer made and new replacement is close to $1k!
Very interesting.
Also a good example of so many modern devices - extremely difficult to repair and replacements extortionately priced. So many manufacturers are being increasingly greedy.
Excellent teardown. Good level of detail. Thanks for the video
I really wanted to know what that board was in the ECM driver. I'm really happy that you open this up. One little comment is try not to use the word, like, so much.
I do have an issue with saying "like" a lot, and I would say "little" and "here" too much also, but I've been actively trying to work on minimizing saying those words.
Thank you for the feedback!
You are a brave man. I thought I was crazy with some of the repairs I have attempted (like rewinding stator and rotor of Westerbeke 4k generator by hand). But, this was insane. I would have chucked it when I saw it potted in all that silicone!
Ha ha, thanks! I just figured with how common it is for these to go bad, there must have been others out there that wondered what was in them as well.
Most of my experience with these controllers is replacing the motor with either a single speed or dual speed conventional motor. We have an AC unit that had one of these motors and it was only wired for a single speed. It wasn't a hard choice, $800 ECM motor, or $100 single speed conventional motor. I just used a blower relay connected to the 24vac control wire to switch the 240vac power to the new motor. Been working fine for 2 years now. Seems stupid to use a multi speed motor in a machine that only ever operates at one speed.
For sure will probably replace this one with a PSC motor if this one dies. Unfortunately, this furnace does appear to use different speeds at different parts of its cycle. But much like you did, some relays should do the trick also.
I work for Genteq (previously GE)
I’m a sales manager and hvac tech trainer for ECM
Cool video to see on this tear down of our ECM controls
Thanks!
Insanely complicated for just a fan, and what's up with those large 28-pin ICs? - Crazy!
It has a date of 2005, maybe they just didn't have dedicated ICs that were adequate for the job. But yeah, definitely more in there than I expected.
Looks like a giant firing pin
Holy!!! Wow that was an awesome teardown! So my blower is shuddering back and forth exactly like you described. I think Ill order a replacement ECM. Then Ill get to work at replacing all of the caps and see if that fixes the problem and Ill let ya know if that solves the problem. Once again that was awesome to watch, I do exactly the same thing but not with your level of expertise. I am an electronic technologist and an electrician. Ill let you know what I find out once i replace the caps and ill let you know how my existing caps test out.
Thanks! I would definitely be interested in hearing your results.
@@ThatElectronicsFool I’ve ordered a used replacement, thanks for the LE tip, but that only gets me a functioning, for now, used part that is prone to failure so I’ll need to get my old on repaired as a spare. I’ll concentrate on removing the silicone only around the caps from the top side. Then I’ll cut out a piece of the bottom steel shell in the same area so I can replace only the caps. I’ll test the old ones and let ya know if the new ones fix the problem and how the old ones tested. My goal is to have a working spare
@@waltersavonian7551any updates? Found the issues causing your motor to shudder n twitch back n forth? I have the same issue and the same ge model ECM 2.3. going to use a replacement off Amazon., but want to know if your issues are fixed?
Great job.. they claim these are programmable units , I see it only has one serial EEprom, in your opinion could this be done thru the 16 pin connector? they claim you have to go back to the OEM and buy the exact part number for you application which in most cases is impossible. I am thinking you can pull the DATA off your old part and put it into any module as long as it meets the horse power requirements any cheap EEprom reader would work just not sure about going thru the 16 pin connector. worst case scenario would be to dig out the silicone around the EEprom. your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. thanks again for the great job.
I'm fairly certain that the programming is done through the 16 pin connector, going by the limited information I've seen. There doesn't appear to be any dedicated pins for serial communication or anything like that, so I'm guessing some of the function pins double as a programming interface with the right signals/protocol. I've seen images of "ECM Toolbox" software that is supposed to be used with some interface device to program the modules. It seems there's not much information floating around out there about these things. I believe power would need to be applied to the module to do any programming as the 16 pin connector side looks to be completely isolated from the control electronics.
As for pulling the data off the old EEPROM, or just swapping it from the old module to the new one, that may definitely be an option, assuming the programmed data is actually stored there and not internally in the microcontroller. I think it would be fairly easy to dig out the area around the EEPROM and heat it up with hot air to pull off, but would need to be careful to prevent melting the connector for the motor, since it's in close proximity to the part.
@@ThatElectronicsFool Thanks for the reply, I have seen a picture of the GE ECM programming module that the manufactures used to program these endbells and it definitely has a 16 pin connector attached to it. My theory is that all 3/4 horse endbells are manufactured exactly the same and each manufacturer just loaded their speed profiles into the eeprom depending on which piece of equipment the motor was installed into. That is the only thing that makes sense to me but I am not an electrical engineer I am a manufacturing engineer. If my theory is correct I could pull the OEM data from the EEPROM and load it into a new endbell... pics enclosed. UPDATE: turns out the EEPROM is blank with no information whatsoever stored on it so obviously my theory is incorrect or someone is not being truthful about these motors. You sounded like you know a lot about circuit design so your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Sorry to be such a pain but I am just one of those guys that need to know how things work. could not upload the pics. sorry
Wait...so those GE motors or more or less a big honkerin' brushless DC motor....and the controller is a ESC? Holy Hell...that makes it SO much easier to operate...the board that sits on the top is more or less a full bridge rectifier w/ filter caps to provide high current DC in to run the motors, the board under that black silicon POT material is an ESC that runs it at "high or low RPM's) So instead of a few HUNDRED DOLLARS, even a decent high KVA hobby ESC (that can handle 220VDC+) could be used to run this thing (with proper heat sinking due to the high current needed to run the motor of course) [that big honkering steel shell] could be used. Or am I way off base here?
Does that ECM run off the 24VAC provided by the little transformer from the control board, but the outer board run on the 220VAC from the mains?
I think one of the few things that these have that a regular ESC wouldn't have is the feedback pin to let the rest of the system know that it's operating properly. I believe the steel shell being used as a heatsink is aided by the large volume of air that is moving over it when the blower is operating. The ECM is powered internally from the high voltage rectifier/capacitor board. The 16pin connector only uses the 24VAC to trigger the different operating modes.
I’m curious about this, as I’d like to just get my ecm motor to run a single speed(something like ‘high’ maybe)using an on/off switch or having it triggered by the thermostat control board would be better. Just trying to get the ac working before temps get bigger than 80(inside, they’re already higher outside🥵).
I was also curious if these motors would be able to be used in some kind of vehicle or other application, as it seems like many people replace them as a unit, the old (and good working)motor gets tossed.
Hi, first thank you very much for going into so much detail and tearing the module down, believe it or not I watched the whole thing :) Now, right at the end @51:55 you are talking about the thin line on the board probably acting as fuse. What do you know, I checked it on my failed module and that thin print is burned out! There is no connectivity anywhere from the big fat circuit over to that short island circuit of the output wire. What do you suggest I should connect it with to repair the circuit? Basically, I'm now sure what gauge wire to use to stay similar to OEM spec.
I would think the thin trace of copper would probably be around 3-5 amps equivalent fuse, guessing by the horsepower rating of these motors, but if yours burned out, it could be indicative of something more serious being bad further into the controller or the motor windings. Something may have shorted.
@@ThatElectronicsFool I have checked for short to ground on it and it looks good. Keep in mind this is a 16 year old AC and couple of years ago I had to change the control board because of water damage. So I'm thinking probably it was some kind issue when the control board was acting up that caused it to become weak and eventually gave up. I will jumper it with a thin copper conductor and see how it goes. Although for now I bought a used replacement from eBay and blower motor is working fine. I will keep this as backup since these are no longer made and new replacement is close to $1k!
So is this 3 phase AC motor or 3 phase DC. Can I use single phase to 3 phase VFD to run this motor?
I don't have any experience using VFDs so I can't say for sure, but these are permanent magnet brushless DC motors.