5 Things That Jane Austen Films Always Get Wrong About the Dancing
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- Опубліковано 28 бер 2020
- "Part of Virtual JaneCon 2020: 5 Things That Jane Austen Films Always Get Wrong About the Dancing
English Country Dance caller and historical dance enthusiast Cassiane Mobley talks about 5 important historical details that Jane Austen film adaptations always get wrong.
Scholarly Sources and Further Reading:
Susan de Guardiola, "Regency Dancers Don't Turn Single: Ten Tips for Judging Authenticity" www.kickery.com/2008/03/regen...
"What did Jane Austen Dance?" www.kickery.com/2009/11/what-...
Paul Cooper, "The Regency Waltz," www.regencydances.org/paper01...
"Regency Era Country Dances: Form" www.regencydances.org/paper01...
"Regency Era Country Dances: Figures"
www.regencydances.org/paper01...
Allison Thomson, "Dances from Jane Austen's Assembly Rooms" (2019) ISBN: 978-0-578-52776-5, allisonthompson.com
Graham Christian, "The Playford Assembly" (2015) The Country Dance and Song Society
Apparently, turning single has been unfashionable since at least over 200 years.
:D :D
In that era , not being married by a certain age was almost a sentence of perpetual servitude to your parents because you would have no other means if support . if your older brother inherited , you would be depended on what ever kindness he would bestow , if any , but he was under no obligation to do so . usually , the oldest son got the house , money , kind , in fact everything . if he wanted to keep it all fir himself , well , the law was on his side , and he could do as he wanted . after all , he was more than likely married with his own family and wanted to improve his own social standing .
@@howardwayne3974 Oh, yeah sure. I was just making a pun because apparently "turning single" is a dance move that was unfashionable back then
I laughed at that one too :)
In Vienna, we still dance the Quadrille at midnight at every dance. Its not a proper ball if that doesnt happen.
as a fellow Austrian, did you also laugh at "dances were fast. even the waltzes" suggesting that waltzes are somehow expected to be slow?
well, the slow waltz is called ENGLISH waltz after all
I can't dance but suddenly I am desperate for this virus to be under control so I can visit.
Wait... balls are still a thing?
@@48mavemiss2 yes, in some countries they are, and it's glorious!!!
Omg😳your resemblace with Jane Austen’s portrait is impressive...
It is rather uncanny
Shocking
Okay wow.....reincarnation?
Literally the first thing I noticed.
When I was a teenager in Northern England, about 60 years ago, every dancing get together always had at least one Bradford barn dance, where the girls were in an outer circle, with the boys inside, and the boys began with one girl and moved from one to the next, doing the usual dance routine with each, until the music stopped. Great way to get a chance to dance with those you fancied without being embarrassed by refusal or shyness and for everyone to get to dance, because everyone always stood up for the Bradford Barn dance. Sounds a lot like one you mentioned in your treatise, without naming it as such. We did plenty of those old country dances in those days. Things got quite boisterous at times, but there were always adults about to keep an eye on us. Most popular was the Sunday dance at the local Catholic Parish hall with priests keeping a watch for bad behaviour. Never saw any because we knew the rules and most of us were naive and timid anyway. They even had rock and roll and the twist. 😉 Fond memories.
I do Scottish country dance & we still do dances done in the 1700’s as well as last year’s newly devised ones. All ages & all abilities from teenagers to 90+ year olds.
I hope to someday be able to dance like this with my partner
I really enjoy those circle dances where we change partners, unless I wanted to stay with my husband. You get to see how people lead, or not. And don’t have to stay with poor ones long
Ah yes, the beginning of rock and roll. I was born in July of 1950, so for me, what was termed "The British Invasion" in the US featured predominantly in my teen years.
I'm jealous! In my part of the world (Kansas, USA) the Mennonite influence was too strong to make dancing casual and fun. Where it existed, it was always weird, formless contemporary stuff or "slow dance" and you had to be very NOT shy to get involved... with lots of boys not participating. 🙄
"popular dances sounded like this"
*burger king ad comes up*
oh okayyy
I got "looked like this" - and suddenly a bunch of urbanites doing some kind of ... what? hip-hop dancing? break-dancing? whatever the kids call it nowadays ... !
Loathe and hate interruptions by loud and inane ads
LOL !!!!!!! 😆
A variation of The Young Widow did show up in 2005's P&P! It was the first song in the assembly at the beginning. (I was absurdly excited to recognize that. 🤣)
Thank you! I was wondering where I heard it! 😁
I recognized that too!!
Knew I had heard the song ha! Good ear.
You'd be surprised how much you can talk when you're dancing, even when you're dancing fast. I knew that my ballroom dance classes were paying off when at the end of a polka I realized that my partner and I had been chatting the entire time even as he was leading me in various patterns around the floor.
Same, I grew up ceili dancing at ceili parties (Irish or depending on where you are Scottish country dancing) which has more intricate footwork than English (as far as I can tell from what was shown here) and literally everyone talks...... it’s a party, that’s kind of part of the point
... are you czech?? Polka is a czech dance if i'm not wrong tho. Also you are right you can have a full conversacion even while dalcing viennese waltz. Although it is tiring
Don't! Dancing is a far deeper communication than talk. You ruin the dance when you talk.
@@elinannestad5320 you've never gotten to know a person at a ceilidh, have you?
@@elinannestad5320 girl 😂 you are right only when that that person knows what they are doing.
Thank you so much. This finally answers one of the questions that really bugged me: HOW did they know what to dance?
Imagine the stress the first lady had to go through, dancing in front of EVERYONE and finding nice choreographies for a whole evening.
At Scottish Country Dancing dances you get a programme book at the door or with the ticket/invitation.
That typically has the 'cribs' for 21 dances. 18 plus 3 'extras' which are only danced if there is enough time. If you're not experienced and dancing regularly, it IS a lot to memorise. (Especially if there aren't enough men and you have to 'be a man' half the time!)
The dances are arranged in 3s, a jig, Strathspey and reel. Usually there is only a pause between each group of 3 dances. There is a supper after the first 9 dances.
Most dances are not 'walked through' first. And often not even 'called' first. Typically a few complex dances might be called with maybe 1 actually walked through before being danced.
More experienced couples often opt to be 'top couple' in a set.
Typically only the first tune, of 3 or 4, is ALWAYS paired with a particular dance. The others are usually chosen by the band or host.
The only dances typically done with an unlimited longwise set, are 'Orcadian' or Shetland variants. Most commonly the Orcadian Strip-the-willow. Which are more informal and danced at ceilidhs. In those dances there IS that period of waiting that she called a courtesy start.
So what she describes is very, very similar to modern Scottish Country Dancing, including the tempos and NO walking or waltzing during the dances. And NO couple dances.
@@louisehogg8472 Well off families employed dancing masters or mistresses to teach young folks dances at home, so they would be more fluid. I've heard of the superior female calling which dances they chose, but not to make up figures on the spot. That would be disastrous, and the first two or three couples would also have to be good dancers. Maybe she worked them out and practiced beforehand. But speaking from experience, people go astray very easily even in well called dances.
And I thought that it was hard for fashion history buffs to watch period films...
Is fun.
Musicians struggle also.
Ignorance is sometimes bliss... but not with Jane.
I have such a hard time that I have actually rubbed off on my husband!! LOL
I've developed a sort of vicious glee in seeing how badly they can screw up computers and hacking... I imagine that many history buffs develop similar defense mechanisms. 🤣
Fascinating. My gripe with adaptations is where every room has a dozen candles burning, EVEN DURING THE DAY!
And when everyone LEAVES with the candles burning... MAJOR fire hazard
I mean, the people of Highbury were pretty behind the times and rarely had balls. It kinda makes sense that they would not be up on the latest dances.
Good point
Also, this young lady doesn’t apparently know that while normally set in the regency era because published during that period, three of Austen’s novels P&P included, were originally written before the 1800 so it’s more than likely that the dances described there had little to do with regency.
And the country musicians would probably not be up on the latest fashionable tunes.
Wasn't the whole premise of pride and prejudice that Bigley is a hotshot from London and he's new to Highbury? His sister is annoyed at how boring and provincial the area is? Been some time since I read the book.
Also twenty years out of date is different than one hundred!
@@hannahcraig6763 The town of Meryton (in Hertfordshire) is where Bingley's sisters would have found fault with the quality of the local assembly. Highbury is the village from Emma. I think in both instances a case could be made for why the locals would be dancing older dances, but the narrative of Emma particularly emphasizes that she's never traveled and all she knows is Highbury, and that it is kind of a insulated, sleepy place. Mr. Elton's wife comments on it as well- how hard it is to adjust to the provincial life after being from the city.
“Do you talk by rule then, while you are dancing?” asks Darcy. That line certainly implies they are talking while dancing. Whatever the accuracy, the dance scene in the BBC version of Pride and Prejudice where Elizabeth and Darcy are sparring is so beautifully edited and so engrossing that I wouldn’t want to change a thing.
I agree. It’s very well done. I love everything about the BBC version!
they were talking while inactive in line..
1980 version, or the later one? ( freely admit that the 1980 one is my favorite.)
They were inactive!
@@nataliej.3579 inactive for some/most of the conversation, but not all. They definitely were talking *while* actively dancing as well- appropriately broken up based on the movements taking them closer to or further away from each other.
One thing I'd love to see in films is varying degrees of skill and age represented. Arbeau (I know, wrong period) speaks of young people doing more athletic movements during dances, and generally speaking, that's true when you look at real world social dance. So I would love to see in a movie, the "city" folk doing some fancier footwork, and the "country" folk copying it in the next go round and older couples just keeping on the way they've always done.
I’m so glad someone has at last corrected this misinformation, although to be fair, we are watching a drama and not a documentary in any Jane Austen adaptation.
No one knows exactly how these dances were danced and descriptions, which sometimes accompany them, are vague. We also don’t know correct tempos to the music. Austen herself never mentions specific dances in her novels, even though it’s well known that she enjoyed a good Jig and preferred Cotillions to Quadrilles. Duple Minors are easier to understand than Triple Minors and mean more can dance, or the dance can be converted into a three couple set.
Dances have always been interpreted differently throughout history, even by dancing masters of the time - the great thing is at least they are still being danced and enjoyed. Thank you for posting this interesting analysis.
We actually have a lot of sources of information about music tempos, from the scores themselves to theoretical writings, even as far back as the 15th century. They might not have used our bpm system but there’s still a lot we can figure out.
Although her family prudishly chopped up her diaries they left her favourite sheet music alone including annotations so we know more about her taste in music than her life.
Thank you! :) That was really interesting.
To be honest, all the time I thought that in the famous 1995 P&P dancing scene Sir William just randomly interrupts Darcy's & Elizabeth's dance for a chat and they accept it to not be impolite.
But now, with the explanation about the dancing line and the pause at the end, the whole situation suddenly makes much more sense :D
Sir William was Sir Hugh in 1975's Poldark and still just as pushy... :-)
To be fair, for a movie or TV adaptation, they also have to consider the mood of the scene and its place in the overall narrative. It is not just about what they should have danced, but also about what they are trying to convey about the characters.
Exactly....
And also, in many cases, the capabilities of the actors - it can be fun paying attention to what's happening while named characters are dancing and comparing it to what happens in the background while named characters are talking on the sidelines or taking a turn in the garden while the extras, for example, do Jacob Hall's Jig (in the C. Sharp interpretation) indoors.
I think that must be true. Authenticity can't always be the priority with films. The dance has to allow enough time spacing for dialogue and the best angles to film a couple or group, to catch the expressions relevant to the character as well the movement of the dance itself. I imagine they'd have to adapt the dance to the space they're filming in to some extent too as this will be diminished somewhat by the sheer amount of filming equipment. Very interesting video. I certainly learned a lot. Thank you for uploading!
This post covers my argument about when conversation took place during the dancing and warns against ahistorical arguments that make assumptions about how ECD was danced in the Regency based on how it is done today.
Before anyone argues with me about the issue of when within the dance that the talking occured, please bear in mind that I NEVER said you couldn't talk AT ALL. I explained how there were frequent pauses while dancing up the set and that there was usually a long wait unit the active couple danced down to your spot and "activated" the dance for you. What I DID say is that they wouldn't have has the breath for LONG conversations while dancing as the active couple. They still made short remarks to each other and to other couples, whooped and hollered and did all sorts of exuberant things, but they kept it brief.
The saying in the Regency was "Talk your way up, dance your way down." There was so much time for conversation during the inactive portions of the dance that they didn't need or expect it during the active part. In fact in Jane Austen's novels you can see cases of conversation stopping while they danced down the set in both in P&P AND Northanger Abbey - in fact it happens TWICE during Lizzie and Mr. Darcy's dance!
Commenters on this video have also claimed that their ability to talk through a fast polka renders my breath argument against long conversation while dancing down null and void. To that I say that apart from the complete dearth of evidence of couples saying anything more than was necessary while dancing down in primary sources and the obvious lack of need because all the inactive bits elsewhere, I think most people would have found it extremely challenging to keep up a continuous conversation through 10 minutes of non-stop strenuous cardio, which is how long the dancing down section would have lasted, and is, as you can see, considerably longer than a 2-3 minute fast polka being held up for comparison. I can certainly talk through a 3-minute fast polka at a similar energy level, and I'm fit enough for a 10-minute fast polka, but I doubt I could do a 10-minute fast polka while talking the whole time. If you can, good on you. I'm willing to admit more things in heaven and earth than dreamed of in my philosophy. However in all my extensive dance acquaitance, I don't know of anyone who has done it or even attempted it on principle. Neither do I know of people who talk non-stop while the active couple in a country dance set of 20 couples if they are doing Regency footwork
Apart from the breath consideration, it's also difficult to talk while concentrating on the figures, unless you know them in advance, and I remind you that dances were made up on the spot by the first lady, so you shoul couldn't learn in advance.
Furthermore in the BBC documentary Jane Austen: Having a Ball, they used professional ballet dancers who were extremely fit to recreate the tempo and footwork of the period. After just one dance they were exhausted and said there was no way they could have enough breath for a long conversation. I think that's some decent corroboration.
In addition I will not listen to people who argue about how they dance modern English country as evidence for how it was done in the Regency. I have gone at great lengths to explain that ECD has changed a lot since its inception. It was drastically different in 1813 than it was in 1650, and the modern continuity owas revived in the early 1900s without any regard for historical accuracy. All of which are well documented and easy to look up online if you Google Cecil Sharp, the folk dance revival, and the various mistakes he and his followers made.
It's also just a logical fallacy to assume that things we do a certain way now must have been done the same way in the past, and if that's your only argument for dismissing my argument, I will remain unconvinced.
That would be, "the taLking thing", I presume ... !
Pin this?
I must disagree on the talking part as well. It is perfectly doable to dance and have chit chat at the same time even with more up-tempo pieces. We do traditional dances that resemble closely the regency dances. The only problem is that sometimes it is hard to hear what your partner is saying, as there is lot talk, laughter, music and footsteps around you! Especially when there's a part where you turn and don't face each other.
This was very enjoyable and interesting video, great work!
Jane Austen was there, and she definitely has her characters talk while dancing. Having a UA-cam channel doesn't make this person the ultimate authority. We still waltz to tunes well over 100 years old, don't know why she thinks music from the previous century would be beyond the pale.
@@annainspain5176 While i agree with you in most parts, i think the “ ‘out of fashion’ music” in her video is still not wrong. She was talking about people in Jane Austen’s class - the high society. To my knowledge, every they did was trendy, “in vogue” at the time, just like fashionista don’t wear last year dresses or an influencers don’t jam to the “lame” 80s music. So yeah, i think waltzing to tunes well over 100 years old must had been considered “lame” at those high class parties.
@@thienkimnguyen1260 But the people in Jane Austen's novels are not "the high society." They are, roughly, the "upper middle class" - the country gentry with a scattering of minor titles and genteel professionals among them. There are a few "fashionista" type characters, but they are only occasionally the ones actually giving or organizing the ball. There probably should be MORE contemporary music, but acting like there wouldn't be any is like imagining that no one would ever play The Beatles or Queen at a modern day party.
@@StarryEyed0590 This and Darcy even questions Bingey's desire to buy a home amongst the "country" folk. People in the country may be a bit behind, they have a smaller list of musicians to hire who may not know all of the contemporary music being played in high society, etc. They may not even know all of the most current dances.
As for some standing still for 15 min before a dance? I think most of us understand things are done for the sake of a movie and not because people at BBC don't know what they are doing.
@@annainspain5176 You sound a little annoyed.....
13:08 about that... if filmed correctly, such as a P&P adaptation, it could be tense and suspenseful for Lizzie and Darcy to be having this conversation as the dancers begin to dance nearer and nearer with each set.
And given the subject of the famous conversation it goes from small talk to A more tense conversation - a fuse to a bomb almost. They have to say all they want to before their time comes to begin.
I love that idea! Please tell all the major studios and networks!
I think that is one of the only ways you could talk film folks into doing the delayed start. Framing it as slowly building tension and release.
It could also be used to build that awkwardness Lizzie is feeling -- you start with the first lady, and then cut back and forth between Darcy and Lizzie, the dancing couples, and all the inactive couples. ...
I love both of these ideas!
These dances are so much fun. I have done Scottish country dancing and it is similar.
Oh my Dear, dance tunes and dance forms persist over very long periods. The use of Baroque tunes in 1800 was very likely. Music gets handed down for generations. I have some music from the 1880's and that was 140 years ago. This gives perspective to Austen folk playing music from 1680. Music and dances from the 1950's are still popular today and that was 70 years ago! What was performed in fashionable London in 1820 may have been the latest thing, but country dances in country towns very likely reflected long local tradition. I'm sure they liked their "oldies" too! People living in the country had a much smaller repertoire, both of music and of choreography. And there must have been a lot of local variation in styling. The musicians were local tradespeople who learned from their parents, etc which perpetuated forms that were probably considered very old fashioned and "countryfied" by elegant town people. I'm sure stately old court dances were enjoyed then as they are now. You gotta have a break from all that jigging, and the Old Folks want to have a chance to dance at least once. I dearly love to contra dance, as we call it here in the US. We invent dances to any music with a big beat. I'll bet they did too.
Viz, in Denmark we still have one square set of five dances, called Les Lanciers, that has survived and is still danced today at court balls, sic! That dance is at the latest from the 1840s. I have heard of it being danced in Ireland as well.
This would have been a perfect comment without the totally unnecessary “oh dear” at the beginning lol. Made you sound all condescending and shitty instead of someone just sharing their knowledge!
If they used one or two songs, maybe. But almost all music is not accurate, nor is the clothing. And to understand the times better, accuracy is key. The same way ppl get weird ideas about corsets and then portray them in movies as if they're prisons. I wish we wrre at least aware "artistic freedom" changes our perception and the meaning.
But to the extent all dancing would've been in that fashion? In every movie? It would seem strange if a contemporary movie would present music form the 60', and make it look like the norm.
@@annebritraaen2237 I agree, it would be like a movie showing modern teenagers doing 1950s rock'n'roll music and dancing, and it not being a theme party. The whole definition of fashion is current popularity!
This dancing is still alive and well, I used to go often with my grandparents in their village hall. It's actually a lot of fun, you just have to learn the moves and then usually we would have someone calling out the steps so you didn't have to remember it all in sequence for all the different songs. :)
Timestamps:
0:34 time period
1:04 english country dancing
2:44 longways set
4:26 reel
4:53 last dance of the evening (le boulangère)
5:25 start of the list
5:32 1) the tunes
7:48 2) the footwork
8:58 3) the figures
10:01 4) the first lady
10:45 5) the courtesy start
12:53 outro
Bit of a late response but thank you for the list and the timestamps. Very helpful!
As someone who is fascinated with dance and a huge Austen fan, I am so delighted to have discovered you.
In the 2005 version of P&P, there is a short long dance scene, on a pacy version of "Young Widow" !
Yup, I cover it in my review of that version!
@@teawithcassiane8431
I forgot to mention that your channel is a gem for us history geeks !
I'm glad you were on my recommended content !
Fantastic.
We had to do country dancing every morning at school. It is called Bush Dancing here.
OMG! So clever and well-done. Can't wait to see the next video!
Listening to you pick apart something I love has brought me tremendous joy! Thank you for taking the time to share this fascinating information, I greatly appreciate your videos. ❤
What a JOY!!! Thank you so much for all your hard work putting these lovely and well researched videos together!!
I can't wait to watch them ALL!!
❤️🙏🎶💃
Fantastic job writing, editing and filming this! Very informative and entertaining. Cassiane you're very engaging and knowledgeable. And Christopher great work shooting this.
And when I went to get a treadmill test at the cardiologist's office, I was doing ok. Then they made me talk as well. I can see how dancing and talking would be difficult, especially if one wanted to maintain one's dignity. Gasping for breath is unflattering.
This is so helpful. Even though I’ve been doing English Country dancing, this helps me understand it more deeply and within its historical context.
Brilliant! Thanks, Cassie! I've been EC dancing for decades and I never knew much of this. I love that!
Cannot WAIT for your dance scene analyses, as someone who delights in modern English Country Dance, this was so informative, I love it :)
To be fair I don't think anyone at the BBC back in 1995 could have predicted that a possibly unborn girl would one day have the technology to both discover all their little anachronisms and then turn around and broadcast them to everyone on planet Earth with a handheld device who cared, for free
I appreciate that you think I might not have been born in 1995. In fact not only was I alive but I also remember the clamour when it was released, and my kid self said, "Pride and Prejudice? Sounds boring!"
@@teawithcassiane8431Hehe my mum had the box set on video. I was practically raised on it
I was beyond thrilled to find this video! As a former dancer and lifelong Austin fan, may I congratulate you on such an informative and entertaining video?!
I spent my childhood dancing Norwegian folk dance in traditional dress and long story short I found costube and now I found you! I'm amazed every day at how familiar history can be and how much there still is to explore!
genuinely excellent video! thanks
An example of what the dance would have looked like would have been helpful, for comparison.
I don't believe that's what her interest was. Seemed to be more focused on why our favorite Jane Austen adaptations are actually complete failures. Pretty messed up if you think about it.
It's probably a bit hard to find, but it would have been interesting.
I understand this Dan e Mr Beveridge's maggot was used :
janeausten.co.uk/blogs/games-to-play/how-to-dance-mr-beveridges-maggot
Exactly what I was hoping for in this video.
@@callmeswivelhips8229 she literally said it's only about dancing, not about the whole adaptation, what's even the point in your comment .
Thank you! More, please.
I cannot believe I watched the whole video 🙈 but I am fascinated! That's so awesome, thank you for sharing that piece of information I would never ever would have stumbled upon anywhere else. I will never watch the films as I did before :D
Nice job of explanation, and the clips are really enjoyable to watch even if they're anachronistic. Thanks!
Thank you so much for uploading this video. It is helping me get through the pandemic!
You are great, Cassiane! I enjoy very much your videos! I am a fan of historical dances, especially from Jane Austen films. I love their beauty and dignity of movements. Thank you very much for what you are doing, greetings from Germany
as an Austen and dance nerd I really appreciate all the historical info and explanation.
Been looking for something like this for a while!
those drawings behind you are amazing!
This is a topic I didn't realize I was so interested in. Also, love your dress!
I love Jane Austen, I like history and I'm trying to improve my English... This was the perfect video for me
Excellent video. Very informative and historically educational.
Thank you for a great video! We have a local group that does English country line dances and I love doing it. I am awkward with knowing what to do so I appreciate having a caller to know the steps. I'm still very much a beginner but my favourite dance/ tune is 'Green Stockings' even if it's much earlier than Austen's time.
This is so great!! I love Jane Austen adaptations, but I also love geeking out about all the stuff they get wrong!! LOL!
Great analyses! And I love your dress!
Loved your video! I like to nitpick my favourite adaptations too. That’s love hahahaha
I was always aware of this, but your video is very informative and I enjoyed it immensely ❤️👍🏾❤️🇨🇦
Very interesting - I didn’t know any of this and it’s fascinating.
Excellent, Cassiane! I found this video both interesting and informative. I was attracted to 'Regency dancing' because of the 1995 P&P and have been hooked on it ever since - I have become better educated about the correctness of music and dances within the adaptations during the years (although I confess that Mr. Beveridge's Maggot the infamous Elizabeth and Darcy conversation dance, albeit historically incorrect, is still my favourite). I have had numerous 'differences of opinion' with other dancers who claim that all the dances would have been walked and who chide me for skipping. It's great to be exonerated! Thank you 😊
Oh absolutely. In Mansfield Park, everyone realize that Fanny has become fatigued at the ball because she starts walking the figures!
I just learned something new. Thank you!
Your exaggerated speech and concise round-ups are very humorous. It's educational too! Thank you.
Thank you for addressing the music! That always annoys me about any historical film!
Ok I love the editing 👍
Thanks for your Talk! (Jane Austen Brasil)
Oh I'm glad you mentioned the courtesy start, I was so confused because I thought the primary purpose of the dances was to talk to your partner especially when you're inactive.
I've been to some like beginner friendly dances with a caller, you could definitely talk if everyone knew how to dance. Lol
0:12 Cassiane: "There are only two types of Austen fans. P&P 1995 fans and P&P 2005 fans."
Lizzie Bennet Diaries fans: "But--"
Cassiane: "Two types."
What about Bridget Jones’ Diary?
@@CaenaGrey Two types.
What's Lizzie Bennet diaries?
I guess she's wrong, then. Because there's also 1980 BBC fans, the best production yet.
@@SafetySpooon We all make mistakes, SafetySpooon.
I forgive your blasphemy.
Perfection! ❤️
i've always wondered about these sort of details!
Very interesting! I finally understand Fanny's reluctance and fear at being the leading lady at the ball at Mansfield Park!
This is interesting! Lots of things I didn't know, especially the ages of the music. I read or saw an interview which explained why the dances in most movies are so slow/walking...it's because it's too hard to train a cast to dance with all that fancy footwork. That could use a dance troupe as extras but the main actors still limit what a choreographer could do.
I always thought there was something off about the way the conversations took place during the dances in P&P. They seemed very awkward, and improbable. Thanks for explaining that they never really happened that way.
I found this very amusing and educational. I always say the book is better than any film and now I know that's more accurate a statement than ever! Thanks.
I found this very interesting. This lady is certainly knowledgeable on the subject of historic dancing. The only thing I would say is that the tunes, dance steps, etc, shown in Austen adaptations, are partly chosen to help pace a scene, and draw the audience’s attention to specific actions of the characters. That ballroom scene in the 1995 TV dramatisation of P&P, for example - where Lizzie and Darcy touch hands for the first time - with its slow music and slow movements, would have had far less dramatic impact if the two of them had been bouncing around to a jig!
I loved the video. Yes, so much fun to find mistakes in films
THANK YOU!
Well done. Had no idea the dance was so complex.
There are people who don't like picking apart movies? Wonderfully informative video!
I've been to a couple of ceilidhs so it was fun to see some similarities in this video!
loved this!
Brilliant , fascinating
In the United States this style of dance landed in Appalachia and evolved into Contra Dance. Which is still active as a dance form to this day ( and for that matter so are English country dance in Scottish Highlands) with live bands and dance groups all across the country. Most are paused for the pandemic I'm sure. I miss it so much! Contra is definitely on my post vaccine to do list but there is way too much touching for now. I wonder though if it would be possible to do English country dance at a distance?
Fascinating! I'm a huge JA fan! I've read almost evertthing on this period EXCEPT the particulars of period ballroom dancing! One can't help but be aware of all the shortcomings of film adaptations, some being better than others. I believe there is a ballroom scene in every one of her books. It's unfortunate that an accurately depicted ballroom scene wouldn't translate well to film. Or could it?
Interesting! Had no idea.
Thanks!
As a classically educated musician my first thought was, "The music is wrong! Wrong time period!"
I've done some Scottish country dancing (and my sister teaches it) and it seems incredibly similar to what you're describing!
Also, thank you for noticing how jarring Baroque music sounds in this historical context.
Very good video.
Modern SCD is the closest of the modern country dances to Regency dance.
Agreed. And while ceilidh dancing is LESS close, with its couple dances, progressions round the room, polka and waltz timings, the Orcadian Strip-the-willow is one of the few remaining courtesy starts you'll see.
What a wonderful vid.
I....Love....This....Channel!!!!
Has anyone else noticed that the Paltrow 'Emma' uses one of the same dance tunes as the 1995 P&P?
Thanks!!
this is awesome
Loved this video and would have actually loved one with all the mistakes XD
I'm a musician in our Dover, DE ECD band. Of course, we do play dance tunes from the 1500's up to the early 1800s for our demonstrations, and at our regular dances play a few 20th century tunes as well. I never thought of shunning a tune because it was "old". Most of our demos are set around the American Revolution, with a few Regency dances. We don't go forward in time but do go back. I would think there were some favorites they dredged up, even back then. Tithe Pig (1561) and Dublin Bay, for instance. Both so fun.
I actually think the real tunes sound better than the ones in the movies. Thank you for sharing.
I was GENUINELY just asking myself this last night when watching the BBC Pride and Prejudice adaptation!
Enjoyed the video I think the first place I saw regency dancing in the first film I saw set in that period which was the most recent film adaptation of pride and prejudice with Kiera Knightley. There is a scene that they actually play young widow which I actually really like. It's a fun melody.
Aw I recognize “the young widow” (6:39) from the meryton ball in 2005 P&P
THIS WAS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS TRYING TO FIND ON GOOGLE!!!
When I did English country dancing in the 1960s and 70s, and Scottish country dancing into the 1980s, we generally used 4-couple sets, but not in duple-minor (as I recall). Generally the lead couple progressed down the four-couple set and then stood out, and each couple below the second couple was inactive. I think some dances were done in duple-minor, but not the majority. I'm sure it has changed over time, as you point out so well. I don't recall any dances being in a slow tempo, except the Scottish Strath Spey, a very stately sort of dance, generally.
We learned English country dancing in music class during elementary school. I loved the Virginia reel.
Thank you for the video. I like to learn accurate history. I did find it hard to follow the terms that didn't include visuals. It is much easier to hear the term and explanation and see it performed. Otherwise its like learning how to dance from a book which is extremely difficult.
Fascinating! I'm also curious which films you showed clips of! I recognize the two P&Ps of course, but there were a couple of scenes I didn't recognize at all and I thought I'd seen almost all Austen adaptations.
I recognize Northanger Abbey (2007 version). Oh, Mr. Tilney is soooo lovely, “a most agreeable young gentleman”.
Fun and informative, thank you! I would have liked to have known if there was any film/tv version that came close or just closest to historical accuracy :)
It really varies by individual dances as much as individual adaptations. In some they are all awful. Many adaptations have a mixed bag, where some of the dances are fairly credible and some are hilariously/painfully bad.
It's also more difficult to judge from adaptations of Persuasion and Sense and Sensibilty where there are hardly any dances.
I'm currently looking at every adaptation available, and there's none I know of that has the right figures, music, formations, and footwork for all the dances.