How Historically Accurate Is the Dancing in the 1995 Pride and Prejudice? - Jane Austen En Pointe
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- Опубліковано 6 тра 2020
- Part 1 of our multi-part series examining the historical accuracy of dancing in various adaptations of Pride and Prejudice.
This video examines the dances from the famous 1995 miniseries adaptation of Pride and Prejudice. We will be looking at whether the music and the choreography is period for the Regency and examining stylistic points such as footwork and tempo.
In addition, we will talk a little about dance reconstruction sources as well the general term "Regency Dance" and why it is applied to a broader historical era than the single decade (The 1810s) when Prince George was the Regent of Great Britain.
Your reenactment of Lydia, Mary and Mrs Bennet absolutely cracked me up!
I know! Totally hilarious! Mary rocks!
I think you can safely say that if it wasn't for this adaptation of P&P, there never would have been a revival in English Country Dancing, not just in the UK, but worldwide. And the dancing is still way ahead of any other Austen adaptation (spare yourself watching the dances in the recent Sanditon!). We largely have Jane Gibson to thank, as she was the choreographer and period movement coach and is also in charge of Choreography and Movement at the National Theatre.
Yes, I'm doing a mini-spotlight on Jane Gibson in my next episode! Also my colleagues in NYC still talk about the exponential surge of new dancers at their local ECD when this series first aired.
@@teawithcassiane8431 I was one of them! Although I did some ECD and Morris as part of folk dancing in college, it wasn't easy to find in the "real" world. P&P (1995) caused the local ECD group to hold a Jane Austen dance for the public. I went, and I've been involved ever since. Thanks for these. Very interesting!
P.S. I also watched the earlier BBC P&P when it came out in the 80's (?) which has its merits as an adaptation. I'll have to watch it again to focus on other aspects, but it was reasonably faithful as I recall.
@@sfordnyc Part 3 will be covering the 1980 P&P. Part 2 is covering the 2005 movie. I find the 1980s miniseries very faithful and quite enjoyable, especially considering the budget limitations they were working with!
I agree about the 1st BBC P&P. I loathed the 2005 movie! Jane Austen meets Jane Eyre (ugh!). I don't even remember the dancing. Looking forward to your take.
@@sfordnyc The 2005 version was definitely not my Cup of Tea, but I try to be gracious to people who like it because it did expose a lot of people to Jane Austen who might not have found her otherwise, including some close friends of mine. As J A said in her original post, the 1995 and 2005 P&P actually have the same choreographer, so they make an interesting comparison. She clearly knows her stuff, and the things they put in there that don't work are more the fault of the directors and producers than hers. She actually did the choreography for most of the Austen adaptations of the 90s and 00s, and the varying quality really shows how little power she actually had for artistic decisions.
With the dance that was chosen for Darcy and Lizzy's dance, as inaccurate as it all may be, it's metaphorically resonant to the conversation that they're having. At first, they are opposing each other, but also in harmony, and frequently are standing next to each other while they dance. As much as Lizzy dislikes Darcy, he likes her, and they have major chemistry. Only at the end, after they clash over Wickham and Darcy is distracted by Sir William Lucas alluding to a probable marriage between Bingley and Jane, are they standing with another couple in between them. I believe that was key in the filmmakers' intent.
This is why it’s always a balance for me when I care about historical accuracy. If it’s something like manners and Downton Abbey, to get it wrong makes the butler look pretty weird. But I do like what the 2003 P&P does with their first dance for the story, as if they’re in their own world. 1995 doesn’t quite have the same camera technology budget to spell it out so specifically. So I agree the change in speed was important.
The lovely thing about the dancing in this series is that they all look as if they are having fun. All, that is, except Mr Darcy.
My impression of the Mr. Collins visit during the elopement was that Lady Catherine sent him or encouraged him to go to get information. Also, don't forget he would be staying with his in-laws who live in the same village and would probably stay there for several days before returning home.
That is acceptable explanation. 👍
They probably changed the Lizzie and Darcy dance to a slow dance because it would be boring to watch them standing still having that awkward convo. And like you said a fast dance wouldn't have worked either 👯
hi cassiane, the reason why they had to do mr collins come and visiting them it was because they already had too much letter scenes going on, for a tv show would be a little repetitive, its fine on a book, but the script for a tv or movie sometimes needs to be more dinamic.
This has nothing to do with dancing, really, but (while I LOVE this adaptation) it drives me nuts that when Lydia interrupts Mary's playing so the partygoers can dance, Mary says the piece she is playing "has two more movements". It doesn't. It's Handel's "The Harmonious Blacksmith," which is a theme with five variations (she only plays the theme). The Harmonious Blacksmith itself is the final movement of a Suite.
This is very interesting. I didn't know about the anachronistic dances until long after the movie was out, but it was always obvious that the filmmakers choose slow, stately numbers in order to facilitate character interactions. In addition, I suspect a lot of dances are "walked" because key cast members couldn't do otherwise. Adrian Lukis (Wickham) said in a documentary that he cannot dance and all teachers despaired of him. Since the cast had to learn so very many numbers, it seems that footwork was confined to the earliest part of the series, to establish "skill/competence" in the audience's mind, and then the director let up on the training later on, only focusing on specific faux pas later on (Mr. Collins' clumsiness and Lydia's bad manners).
Thanks for all the info! As a classical musician who tends to bristle at musical inaccuracies, I appreciate your informing us novices how to watch historical dance with a more critical eye.
It’s too bad the Mr. Beveridge’s Maggot is historically inaccurate, because it works so well cinematically and plot-wise. It has such heightened intensity and seems to reflect their dialogue, which is always intricate and fully engrossing. However, it might be a nice contrast to see a lively air juxtaposed with their serious arguments. And TBH, who wouldn’t want to see Mr. D kick up some dust and sweat a sweet musk
There was a book published at the time on the making of the 1995 Pride & Prejudice. It contains a whole section about the dancing by the person who put the dances together, their aim and limitations of filming. Most interesting, I must read it again in light of what you say here.
Can you give us the title, please?
@@suonatar1 "The Making of Pride & Prejudice" by Sue Birtwistle & Susie Conklin" Penguin Books & BBC Books 1995
@@minimaker5600 Thank you 🌹
The most interesting part was the fact that snobbish dancing would have been fancy not lazy. I liked knowing that. 13:25 🤣. I understand when a writer or somebody made a small budget movie doesn't get these things right even a series if it's got a small enough budget that one episode, not the whole thing, can't do the resourcing. I don't understand Hollywood with all the resources in the world not being historically accurate unless they intentionally moved the historical time period.
It usually depends on their priorities for the piece. It bugs me just as much though when people decide to throw whole projects out the window over 1 inaccuracy. These stories are still fiction, not documentaries. And they have to serve the project first. That’s their jobs. It also depends on the era the project was made. The 1940 P&P follows theatrical values that have greatly changed. They didn’t get the costumes “wrong,” they reused ones they had. They changed the end to make it what they wanted. It was typical. But throwing out Olivier’s performance particularly is insane to me. Firth was nervous to even take on Darcy because it’s so good. He was right that it’s good. It’s all values and perspective.
@@IslesYankeeLady Sorry I thought this was a different comment on an actual historical movie. I still don't see why it bothers you that someone will be bothered by historical inaccuracy. As a writer I actually strive for as much accuracy as possible even in my fantasy books and I especially strive for continuity. It's called standards and there's nothing wrong with other people having them and it shouldn't bother you that people have standards. That seems excessive is all I'm saying. It's not like they're saying there's something wrong with you for liking a movie. You can like any movie you like. It's not a personal attack on you it's an attack on the laziness a giant corporation.
Mr Beveridge’s Maggot is mentioned by Jane Austen as one of her favourite dances.
Can you provide a source? I've read Jane Austen's letters and have never seen an allusion to "Mr. Beveridge's Maggot."
Like the other respondent, I'd love to know where she mentions this, please. It would be interesting to have evidence that Mr B's Maggot was still being danced around 1800. It was first published by the Playford family in 1695 (music probably by Purcell) and re-published in editions up to 1728 but I don't know of any later publications.
I know it isn't strictly speaking a Jane Austen adaptation, but I would really like to see an analysis of the dancing in the recent War and Peace adaptation. It is a similar time frame but a different country.
It's so enjoyable to delve into the details.
I'm so glad you enjoy this! I sometimes worry that people don't really care to delve this deep.
I love your videos! I'd love to see more on pride and prejudice, even just a general review, especially on this adaptation
I love hearing about your passion for historical accuracy I am a valley history nerd and a music history nerd. I couldn't stand watching The Greatest Showman because some of the drums they used in the musical numbers weren't invented until the nineteen 60s. Yes, the music was awesome, but it didn't fit the period! Let alone all the other stuff they changed for that story. Really enjoying your videos. Thank you.
Hi Cassiane! After you've done all the dancing in the Jane Austen adaptation, it would be great if you could do the ones in the Wives and Daughter mini-series (1999). It's such an overlooked series and yet has so many interesting elements in it!
Hi! Just happened to see your face on a link to the video when watching modern movie costume analyses and thought “I know her! I know her!” At least as a vintage dance instructor. Missing dancing with other dance geeks.
Very interesting; I will now be distarcted watching films like this, as I look to see, for instance, whether they are merely walking the figures!
I think they walk through the dances for the quality of the footage, but also because the actors wouldn't be able to do as much exercise. Especially having to act, that would be just too much.
On the other side of the Atlantic several decades later Cuban composers in the single couple danzon wrote sections of music for dancers to engage in conversation until the next section of music called them to continue the danzpn..
Watching this version has made me reach for the book and consequently fall in love with Jane Austen.
I really am enjoying your videos...I have the same book as you only mine is starting to fall apart. I am very fond of 1985 P & P and the old Sir Laurence Olivie one. (even though the costumes were off period)
Love this!
Thank you so much for the support! It means so much to me!
I heard in some interview that floors were awfully slippery so maybe that's why they were walking
"I don't give perfect scores in this series" SAVAGE 🕶
How have we been learning more about regency era dances in the recent decades? Is it because we have a wider access to period books because of the internet? I’m genuinely curious
Great queation! We continue to find and catalog old books. Some of it is historians going through letters, journals, and newspapers to find mentions of dancing, and part of it is that it's much easier to share information on the internet. I mean, it's great to be able to read scans of dance manuals online!
What makes me nuts in the adaptation are these things:. Mary, Lizzie's and Georgianna's piano abilities fluctuate wildly throughout the series. Also, the number of dinners at Rosings keeps changing backwards and forwards.
Very interesting! (Maybe they walked the dances so that the actors would better stay in the frame of the camera?)
Also, I don't know how many of the actors were maybe able to keep up, since so many dances are just a lot of hopping around. I can see everyone wilting when they have to do retakes.
You said at the beginning of the video that there were 12 dances in the mini-series but you mentioned only 11. Did you forget one or are there really just 11?
Good question! The one that's easy to miss is part of the montage at the end of the Netherfield Ball. Because it's a montage to an original song, there is no tune name for me to find, and also couldn't place the choreography with the limited amount of dancing seen, so I couldn't give a name for the choreography either. But the dances should be 1. The Touchstone 2. Trip to Highgate 3. Mutual Love 4. The Comical Fellow 5. The Happy Captive 6. Mystery Dance 7. Pleasures of the Town 8. The Barley Mow 9. Shrewsberry Lasses 10. Mr. Beveridge's Maggot 11. Grimstock 12. Lasses of Portsmouth. Happy to clarify!
I have that same Leather bound copy of Jane Austen's novels
It's actually my husband's. I just use it for a prop!
@@teawithcassiane8431 that's adorable
Bernadette Banner does some lovely sewing videos that illustrate things from various points in history. They are delightful. She does not seek to belittle the work of many, many people involved in the creation of film adaptations of older literature. She is, in fact, charming. I think the existence of various creative visions of Jane Austen's work, among other authors, lead many people to read those books, whereas they might never have done so. Maybe you could go and see how she presents the past in a way that is not dismissive.
Thank you for the constructive criticism. I think you make a good point, and it made me realize that my desire is more to educate than to condemn, and I really want to start making these videos in a way that's not as belittling. I'm currently scripting my next video on Mansfield Park, and there will be a major change in tone and format.
@@teawithcassiane8431 I like your videos, and BB's. I think the most condescending comment was not yours but the one above. I don't think you're dismissive.
@@teawithcassiane8431 I enjoy your videos and I like your tone and format. Entertaining and educational. So I hope you don’t change it too much. Looking forward to more of your videos!
@@dancingprincess I have realized with time that the OP was indeed a bad-faith criticism. There are some people who just take any criticism of their favorite things as a total condemnation. I also have the right to be exasperated that big-budget productions with the budget to do it right choose not to care. I would never make fun of a local theatre production for econimizing or not having the resources for a knowledgeable dance consultant.
@@teawithcassiane8431 As a lifelong dancer I appreciate your attention to detail. There are many videos including those hosted by Wired magazine of experts going over different disciplines like sword work or spying and grading them and it’s not necessarily condescending and I don’t see that in your tone either. It seems you appreciate the various artistic choices as well. Thank you so much and I am just discovering your wonderful videos thanks to @mistressofPemberly. That said I would love to have videos of you commenting on. That said I would love to see your segments of Films that get the most accurate and best portrayals. Of course you may already have them on here I’m going to enjoy exploring on your channel :-)
Miss Mobley DEFINITELY resembles Miss Austen.
Since you went all the way back to 1972 for the first BBC "Emma," I should think you could have managed to include the BBC "P & P" from 1980, which was an important adaptation in the filmed history of the novel, though probably less appealing today when compared with more recent versions. And if you wanted to be really thorough, there is the film from 1940, pretty well Hollywoodized, but significant historically in presenting Austen on screen in the early era of motion pictures. It has Laurence Olivier as Mr. Darcy, no less.
Oh ye of little faith! Check out the playlist for the 1980 version. I only went out-of-order because my channel was so new at the time and I wanted to build more audience before I did something more obscure. 1940 P&P is coming, but it's going to be a little different because it's 1830s.
This is my second favourite P&P adaptation after the 2005 version because that was my gateway to Austen but there will always be a place in my heart for every Mr Darcy.
I love all the adaptations for different reasons. This one for dialogue and the sisters save Mary, no version does her right #Justice4Mary. 2005 I love that it made them more relatable class-wise and that while missing dialogue the spirit of Lizzie was captured perfectly. Them living together was smart for familial feeling, the use of dance to convey emotion was powerful and it's my favorite Caroline. My favorite Darcy is my least favorite version, the musical. The medium allows for his inner thoughts that can't normally be expressed and it's wonderful. Wickham was the most convincing as a pretender to virtue. Plus every Caroline letter is gold. The Zombie version holds surprising accuracy for such a drastic genre change. If they were warriors that is exactly how the book proposal fight would look and it was oddly cathartic. Everything just feels the natural direction these exact people would take in that type of universe which psychology os fascinating.
The 2005 version was a terrible version. It was all about "show casing" Keira Knightly, nothing more. She was terrible and how she ever got an Oscar for that performance is beyond me. The 1995 version was as close to the book as I've ever seen. The only redeeming fact of the 2005 version was the costumes.
I love Austen so it grates my nerves when an adaptation is not accurate to the era and to the books. That's the reason I hate 2005 adaptation and refuse to see Bridgerton. Having said that, I really love Mr Beveridge's Maggot! I know it's baroque and has nothing to do with Regency, but I can't help loving it! I love both the tune and the choreography and I really wish I had the opportunity to dance it some day. Alas, period reenactmets have nothing to do with Greek culture, so I'll have to just keep on dreaming!
I totally get what you're saying. I enjoy the dancing in this version even when it isn't the most accurate. Out of curiosity is there much of a historical reenactment culture in Greece around Greek history. I'm Greek-American, and I know the local Greek communities where I live (in California) sometimes have the kids do reenactments for Greek Independence Day. I'm lucky that I live in an area that has a a lot of both period reenactment and modern English Country dance, so I've gotten to dance Mr. B's Maggot quite a few times. My family thinks I'm something of a heretic because I got into ECD and ballroom dancing rather than Greek dancing, but in my defense, the Greek dancing teachers I had as a kid were really mean, and it kinda ruined the experience for me.
@@teawithcassiane8431 here there's no historical reenactmet culture at all. The reenactments Greeks do in California or elsewhere in US, is solely because of the influence of American culture.. Pity you had nasty dancing teachers in your school years, Greek dances are marvelous. Personally, I adore almost any kind of dancing , Greek, ballroom, Latin, modern, and period dancing of course, though there are no period dancing schools here, as nobody would think to dance them . My family and friends cannot understand why I sigh with longing every time I watch a Jane Austen adaptation. They find me at least weird
@@myrtali1 Lovely to read your enthusiasm, and Cassiane's, for all forms of dancing.
Is THAT how you pronounce her last name? I have been wondering for years.
surprised no comment on Mr. Collins attempt at showing off his footwork. All they did was make him flub his placement, they wanted him to look ridiculous.
Well, it wasn't that fancy, it was just abasic pas de basque with really exaggerated movements.
what about the 1938? version..
Do you mean the 1940 Laurence Olivier Version? It's coming, but it's going to be some extra work to talk about dancing in the 1830s instead of the Regency.
@@teawithcassiane8431 yes :FOR EUROPEAN/ POLISH SOCIAL BALLROOM DANCES: POLONAISE AND MAZURKA ESSAYS, VIDEOS AND INSTRUCTIONS: GO TO THE INTERNET AND SEARCH FOR: ACADEMIA.EDU………..RAYMOND CWIEKA
TO VIEW THE VIDEOS PASTE THE VIDEO - WORD - ESSAY TO A WORD
DOCUMENT AND THEN CLICK & PRESS THE CTRL KEY ON THE VIDEO.
ORIGINALLY THERE WERE SOME 49 BOOKS AND ESSAYS OF MINE.
Thank you. I do know the basics about the era, but I'm always happy to read more about the subject.
You lost me when you claimed the series was too long! It could have gone on with more episodes .... each one brilliant!
Agree with her about the wet shirt moment, but I'm also not much into Colin Firth.
I remember reading with surprise all the excited comments about the wet shirt, which didn't seem the least bit erotic to me.
I imagine your comments are based on you having forgotten the book is not about dancing!
Well, the book isn't about costume or riding or other aspects of Regency life either. But JA mentions all these aspects to show how her characters behave; that's one of her many subtle skills as a novelist. And personally she loved dancing: as other writers have pointed out elsewhere, she uses dance comparatively often as a setting for her characters, and comments on how they manage it (e.g. Lizzy's unhappy thoughts about dancing with Mr Collins, or her spoken comments while dancing with Darcy). Film-makers spend a lot of money and care on getting historical details right for most things -- shooting, riding, carriages, costume and settings -- but seem not to bother with dancing which plays an important part. Yes, the choreographers work hard, but they can't be specialists in every period. People who are specialists groan not only at unnecessary inaccuracies but also at the wasted opportunities to use details of period dance as JA did to enrich the story.