🙄gender is psychological. Sex is physical (excluding •03% of intersex pop. Ur beliefs are not impirical proof. The NEED to be 'special' does not make ur needs paramount🤷♀️
It's not only women's rights that being attacked by this Ideology. It's also the safeguarding of children, who are put at great risk of being recruited into the 'Trans' Industry via indoctrinated school-teachers indoctrinating children from the earliest age.
I'm so glad Sal is in it for the long haul. Is there a way to donate, even a small amount, to her costs? It is a cause that all us women should support.
I'm also interested in some financial support for Sall. I feel we need to stand up for our rights. By giving some money I feel I am not being submissive to this idiotology.
I think most men, leaving aside the obvious group, feel the same. If the very meaning of the word woman can be abused in this way, and woman's rights can be stolen like this - and then the act of stealing be widely praised as moral and correct - then we are all in deep trouble. If we don't sort this out, then literally anything and everything is up for grabs. I would definitely contribute as much as I could to her next case. I wish you very well, Sall.
Sall, you are incredible. I don't think there could be a better person to lead this fight. Intelligent, articulate and resilient. Good luck. So many people are with you. x
I became aware of the gender issue in about 2018, and have been following Sal's case from the start. What absolutely blows me away is that so few Australians are aware of what's going on. Sal is a fucking legend. She, along with a whole bunch of brave women, deserves a statue.
This interview is a welcome breath of fresh air. Sall Grover appears to have become an expert on this issue during the course of her legal fight. Listening to her has been an enlightening experience.
If Roxy is in fact deemed by the court to be female, then she cannot have been discriminated against based on sex. If Roxy was in fact discriminated against then it’s because they acknowledge he is a male.
@@anonymousa-uy1hk yes. The judiciary have failed. I think several lies were in the judgement: that existing laws all exist harmoniously is a lie and he must know it. The matter is before him because there is a conflict ffs.
It's an excellent deterrent, especially for women in prison, dv victims, young girls, cleaning ladies etc that would just have to roll over and accept their terms.
The dynamic of people expecting the whole of society to enable their self image is the dynamic of the psychopath - almost their defining characteristic. Like a kitten improperly socialised in its youth, the psychopath has never learned to understand a higher sympathy than their own delusional self image.
People don’t seem to realise why women like me don’t always want to share space with Trans identifying Men (TiM). Have you ever been to a drag show? It’s all about the adoration of men who have dressed up, put on makeup, and worn a wig. That’s what sharing space with TiMs is like. We are expected to tell them how great they look, and how brave they are. They fill the space. We basically have to wait for them to leave, to start talking about anything that we actually want to. Now imagine that, but the TiMs never leave, because they are in there all the time.
Drag queens are absurdly exaggerated characatures of the worst sort of raunchy women. I have never understood why feminist allys never put the genre out of business.
You might appreciate the new documentary, Behind the Looking Glass at Lime Soda Films channel on yt. I keep data on women who divorced "Roxy Tickles" and the truth about drag shows is that there's lots of coke being snorted by these "thespians" and not just backstage.
It’s not that complicated and we shouldn’t have to over explain ourselves. They’re just men. That’s why we don’t want them in our spaces. Why they choose to be in those spaces is irrelevant to me.
I find it baffling too that some women claim to be fine with it. Id rather be in a counselling group or a refuge with just plain old men than these men who hate us so much more.
Thank you, Brendan, for going where too few male joirnalists dare to go. And thnx to Sall for her always eloquent and clear-eyed assessment of this top down (go Sall!) project to rearrange our perceptions of ourselves as a species.
I am a life-long American liberal. I want to thank Ms. Grover for standing up in defense of reality, something the left in my country has completely lost touch with on this issue and others. Viva Sall Grover!
This is how warped all this is: I did a piss-take chat with Google's Gemini - here's the Q&A: ME: I am a biological male who identifies as a woman - am I indeed a woman? And now that I am a woman who is attracted to women , am I also able to identify as a lesbian? GEMINI: Yes, if you are a biological male who identifies as a woman, you are indeed a woman. Your gender identity is a personal experience that is unique to you. Additionally, if you are a woman who is attracted to women, you can identify as a lesbian. Lesbianism is a sexual orientation that describes attraction to people of the same gender. Put this issue to a vote at the next Australian general election and we'll finally get a very decisive ruling - from the Australian People.
I can paste a horn to my forehead and tell the zoo I'm now a unicorn or a rhinoceros but they sure as hell won't let me into the enclosures. The world has gone mad!!
Brendan O’Neill is one of the best interviewers on this topic. He’s informed, doesn’t love the sound of his own voice too much and adds to the discussion with insights of his own. And Sall is a great interviewee. I’m so glad that she’s on our side with her intelligence, fortitude and sense of humour. I guess you have to be able to laugh at the absurdity of it all - it’s Kafkaesque indeed!
I’m an Aussie. I got kicked off a menopause support group for commenting on this topic. Told I was vile. By women! I just cannot believe women ourselves are supporting this!
@@annamariposa6959 isn’t it! I cannot believe women can in any way condone this. What. Have we been fighting for? What about their daughters? All this “live and let live” and “it doesn’t hurt me” is all very well, but to attack another woman who was there seeking support for something only a woman can experience, and call her vile for saying men are men and cannot “change” no matter what they dress like or say they feel? It’s just mind boggling!
They need to be smart like UA-cam & Facebook when they ban someone from a woman only app. The app should have lots of vague terms & conditions and the ban reason should be vague. For example, That the person (a man) was banned because their behaviour (on the app or other social media sites) violated the terms & conditions.
This is so nonsensical. If you just ask basic questions about the term "cis-women" (or trans woman for that matter), the whole thing falls apart. Because a "cis woman" is apparently a woman who identifies as a woman. But what is this thing called "woman" that people are identifying as? You must have a definition otherwise you are in Lewis Caroll nonsense land - a mome rath is a thing that identifies as a mome rath. More than that, the term "cis woman" requires the imposition of a belief that "woman" is a feeling or an identity. But I do not believe this nor do 99% of people on this planet. I do not "identify" as a woman because "woman" isn't a feeling or an identity, it's a biological reality. I recognize no feeling or identity known as "woman" because I don't believe any such feeling or identity exists. Claiming to feel like a woman is as nonsensical as claiming to feel like a fish or a bird or a tree. Unless you are those things, you cannot feel like those things, you can only imagine what it might be like to be those things while having no knowledge of whether what you imagine is even close to the reality (it's probably not). So, I'm not a woman who identifies as a woman, therefore I'm not a cis woman. I'm certainly not a trans woman. What does that make me then? If only people who identify as woman are woman, then what they are really saying is that trans women are the only legitimate women since actual women don't identify as women because why would we need to? Humans don't identify as humans, they simply are humans. It's all just nonsense.
This. I'm not a "cis-woman" bc there is no need for a subcategory of "woman" (transwomen are men). I don't "identify" as a woman the same way I don't "identify" as a human. I just am. Goth, Punk and Emo are identities. A woman is an adult human female. Not an "identity" for men to claim. Therefore I will never accept the term "cis" woman. With their logic Furrys can become another species via "identifying" as a cat, dog or bear.
Exactly. "Woman" are not an identity, it is a biological sex category: Adult female human. "Gender" is nothing but sex stereotypes that people internalize and claim as their "identity." It's not just nonsense, it's regressive nonsense that actually harms people.
@@JohnSmith-ux3tt I have no intention of ever voting for a leftist party again unless they do a complete 180 on this and several other issues. They have lost their minds.
Grindr is now full of straight men preying on “gay Trans men” AKA young, confused straight women. The actual biological male gay men don’t want them. So in came the straight men feigning at being gay to “affirm” them. Lmao. This isn’t surprising… muddying waters like this always leads to the bad apples acting badly. That we all wanted to believe in a general state of kindness and tolerance as being possible without safeguards and clarity of language is how I his all ran away from reality.
I don’t know if you *should*. I won’t join a male only space because I self-exclude from them. Like any decent person. -- The point is that you *could*, because “gender identity” (which no one can properly define), now trumps sex.
@@Argeaux2 This really is the issue. Women self exclude. Decent men self exclude from women's spaces but, unfortunately, decent men seem to be on the decline. Men will never be threatened because women will never go into a man's toilet alone for obvious reasons. Women will never go into men's sport because they know they will never win. I bet you'll never see a trans in women's gymnastics because it's the only sport where women, because of their build and make up have the advantage. Strength and muscle is not an advantage.
If you identify as a man - by law you're right to pop in and have jolly good time - Better still, get a few of your girlfriends to also start identifying as male, and turn up en masse! It's going to take this sort of stupidity to highlight that this is out of control.
To a small extent - some women id-ing as men do insist on going into gay men's clubs, which gay men find annoying. But they are not a physical threat in the same way.
@@jittmet7766 it is repulsive to suggest that the only reason women need space is because the threat of physical threat. Most men never ever hurt anyone. It is FACT, that more men are victims of violence then women are.
8:40 I did wonder if the judge would address that, but i don’t know why I’m surprised that he thought it was fine and dandy. 🙄 I was also surprised that he said Sall and Roxy had some correspondence over email. Which doesn’t make any sense to me? Why would Sall block him on her phone, and remove him from the app, only to get into a discussion about it via email? What’s there to discuss??
I hope that Sall's team has read Michael Foran's substack on the case. He's not (as he admits himself) an expert on Australian law but he does raise a number of questions about how her legal team chose to tackle the case. This is such a new area of law. We have many cases now in the UK but I'm not aware of any older cases in Australia.
The "believe what you want to believe about yourself" is the mantra that got us into this mess in the first place. Please stop saying that. You would not affirm anorexia so don't affirm another dysphoria!
On a legal level, we have to allow freedom of belief. On a mental health level, we need to maintain that delusion is an unhealthy state of mind & should never be encouraged (unless in the case of deme tia where there is no hope of retaining the truth)
I am totally behind Sall - and women everywhere in this ridiculous struggle ………. EXCEPT - that like every feminist in the last 50 years - they are ALL utterly disingenuous about any “male-only” spaces. Show them any male club, association, or interest group, and they have relentlessly (and unreasonably) DEMANDED access !! Not one of them now recognises this, nor concedes the hypocrisy of their prior position.
Discrimination: what about membership of an Organisation or Club? For example, could you not say, 'You are not a member of this Trade Union, so you can't attend a Branch Meeting'? Or would Wokies say that just anyone can attend?
Oh, GFY. The issue with men's clubs is that women were precluded from business dealings. Nobody wanted to get into your bathroom, locker rooms or prisons.
Male toilets are still mostly used by males. Female toilets have become the default for anyone who wants to use them. So now, female toilets are used by “trans men”, “trans women”, and nonbinary people. Grindr should be for gay men. It’s now been inundated by so many “trans men” that heterosexual men have also started to use it to pick up women. Walk into the front room of any pub. It’s full of men. I don’t sit in there. It’s not for me.
Are you concerned that men in the golf clubs maybe assaulted by women and silenced by them😂 Don’t think you really understand what this case is about and have made it all about yourself
It just seems to me like a r* shelter or DV shelter would have been a much stronger case to bring. I am a woman, and I don’t know that women should really have the right to exclude males from an app?? Is that really truly a “safe space” where the sexes need to be separated? Surely lawyers looking for a precedent-setting case should have waited to take this all the way to the top when it was a situation which was rock-solid. Like prison, like a r* shelter, where it is irrefutable that the sexes need to be separated?
As for the r-a-p-e shelters, etc, you're kidding yourself. With self-ID men are allowed into those places and in women's jails and it's been happening already for years.
The app is/was for women only. Of course a women-only app should be able to exclude men. How is this even a question? As far as I know, Giggle included a section where women could look for female-only flatshares and women flatmates, and it also included a lesbian dating site. Why on earth should men be allowed to join?
@@jittmet7766 But my point is, the public outcry over a case featuring a r* shelter who was forced to include males would be enormous. Public outcry over an app forced to let men use its forums to type words? The general public will probably just shrug and it’s not going to be immediately clear what the problem is. When this is a case that will set the precedent in law, Sal’s lawyers imo should have waited for the MOST extreme and obvious situation where women need to exclude men. There have been zero instances online where I needed male users excluded for my safety.
@@SatuSusanna I am talking about the PR side of lawsuits. ALL women know what it is like to need males not to be in our prisons or hospital wards or r* shelters. I’m not sure there’s even much of a percentage of the female population who have felt a desperate terror at the idea of men sharing an app with us. Sharing a shower or changing room or sleeping space with us - yes. My point is, pick the strongest possible situation, where all people in the general public will instantly be outraged when the spotlight is shone on it in the trial. That’s exactly what it took with the SNP and “Isla” Bryson situation.
Brendan@29:02 ''freedom of Association often entails discrimination, I don't mean the bad form of discrimination, bigoted discrimination but discrimination along the lines of saying this space is for women and therefore we don't want men''. But 'men only' spaces are banned by law. That means they must be, according to BO'N's logic, 'bad forms of discrimination.' In other words, whatever BO'N says is motivated by bigotry is, de facto, bigotry. BO'N is also on the side of lesbians not having to admit 'transgender' 'women' into their midst. On what grounds? It's not on the grounds that they are women needing a 'safe space' but on the grounds that they are lesbians needing their own space away from those who men who believe they are 'women'. For some reason, BO'N thinks that man-made rights legislation preventing anyone from discriminating against lesbians is a 'good' thing, whereas man-made legislation preventing anyone from discriminating against 'transgender women' is a 'bad' thing. On what grounds? Because 'Big Bren' says so? Both women and LGBTQs, as 'minorities', have benefitted from Critical Theory ideas & its outworking in the form of non-discrimination laws & resulting DEI policies. These minority rights have imposed onto the rights of the majority, expecially, for example, the right of Christians to criticise & not to accept those members of minority groups into THEIR midst or to restrict women from preaching in mixed-sex congregations. The ground of the argument against those minority rights trumping the rights of Christians to follow their religious beliefs is the Bible. What grounds does BO'N have for deciding when some discrimination is 'bad' & other forms are 'good' except that it's what he believes?
Christians are allowed to discriminate. Women can't be priests in Catholic or Orthodox churches. There is no law that says the they must allow female priests in any country that I'm aware of. The Christian denominations that do allow female priests have not done so as the result of any law, but by choice. They have freedom of religion and association. Now if women who "identify" as men sued the Catholic Church for not allowing them to be priests because they say they are men, that would be an interesting case. Also, maybe I missed it, but I didn't hear Brendan say men-only spaces were wrong, he just said bigoted discrimination was wrong, but didn't specify what he meant by that. He didn't say discrimination against lesbians is wrong and discrimination against "trans women" is good. The controversy here is over the definition of words. In what sense are trans women women? What exactly makes them women? What do they have in common with all women apart from humanity, which all men share? If they are not a type of woman, then "trans women" is a false category.
Lesbians in Australia currently have no legal right to gather without the presence of men, as it happens. Several women are fighting through the courts for the return of their basic human rights in the state of Victoria.
yeh, the audacity! This crap was pushed by "progressives" By those who had the great virtue of "tolerance"....pushed by those that like to change the meaning of words....pushed...by women.
Idk if you realize that women aren’t a homogeneous group, that there have been “waves” of Feminism-some of which various millions of women never supported in any iteration-precisely because we don’t all agree with one another on every perspective or every issue. But if you need an excuse to insert your right to be grumpy and sexist, saying you don’t support women overall because you disagree with some of them on some hazy “this is what you get” bitter terms-and see them all as just one flat stereotype, the way Trans people do-then I’m glad you’ve found one.
@@m-alexandria-g I wasn't addressing you. I was addressing Sall Grover as an individual. You insert yourself into this conversation because you are a woman and you think as a homogenous group. Mind your own business.
@@m-alexandria-g Is sexist for men to say men and women are different and have different interest? Is sexist for me. To want male only spaces ? Is sexist if men say not all men are evil ? If your answer is yes to all of this, you'll fight this fight alone. Because you yourselves supported the queer theories and the deconstruction of the genders and gender roles , shaming motherhood or saying "women can do more than give birth" well congratz, according to the law men and women are EXACTLY the same with no differences
@@m-alexandria-g (1) you don't understand the word "sexist". (2) you don't understand basic statistics (reference to "not all") (3) understanding something does not make peeps "grumpy". (4) not supporting f3minsm is NOT the same as not supporting women. (Most women are nOT f3minists and men can also be f3minists.)
If women don't legally exist, they loose their protective rights. That's a big deal. But thanks for being short-sighted and insensitive. I'm sure you'd be fine with lawmakers taking the definition of men off the books...no big deal, right? Not insulting, right?
There’s a lot wrong in the world today. Being assaulted (invaded, filmed etc…) in what were once largely safe spaces for women and children is no minor issue, and there are many more side effects of gender ideology that are dangerous. This court case is not merely about an app.
“Gender identity” can’t be defined without referring to sexist stereotypes.
🙄gender is psychological. Sex is physical (excluding •03% of intersex pop. Ur beliefs are not impirical proof. The NEED to be 'special' does not make ur needs paramount🤷♀️
@SusanMarg There are no exceptions. Intersex people are still either female or male.
It's not only women's rights that being attacked by this Ideology. It's also the safeguarding of children, who are put at great risk of being recruited into the 'Trans' Industry via indoctrinated school-teachers indoctrinating children from the earliest age.
@@marieparker3822 Trans industry? 🤣🤣🤣
@@evad7933It's really just the medical-industrial complex.
@@evad7933 yes industry because people are making money off this.
Much like conservative UA-camrs?@@YEALANDS2024
I'm so glad Sal is in it for the long haul. Is there a way to donate, even a small amount, to her costs? It is a cause that all us women should support.
Hello,I donated to her fundraiser on Givesendgo.🤞🏻for her.
Yes, she set up her own donation service, because other ones wouldn’t accept her cause.
I'm also interested in some financial support for Sall. I feel we need to stand up for our rights. By giving some money I feel I am not being submissive to this idiotology.
I think most men, leaving aside the obvious group, feel the same. If the very meaning of the word woman can be abused in this way, and woman's rights can be stolen like this - and then the act of stealing be widely praised as moral and correct - then we are all in deep trouble. If we don't sort this out, then literally anything and everything is up for grabs. I would definitely contribute as much as I could to her next case.
I wish you very well, Sall.
If you search for giggle crowd you'll find it. A lot of people chipping in to this very important fight.
Sall, you are incredible. I don't think there could be a better person to lead this fight. Intelligent, articulate and resilient. Good luck. So many people are with you. x
I became aware of the gender issue in about 2018, and have been following Sal's case from the start. What absolutely blows me away is that so few Australians are aware of what's going on. Sal is a fucking legend. She, along with a whole bunch of brave women, deserves a statue.
This interview is a welcome breath of fresh air. Sall Grover appears to have become an expert on this issue during the course of her legal fight. Listening to her has been an enlightening experience.
If Roxy is in fact deemed by the court to be female, then she cannot have been discriminated against based on sex. If Roxy was in fact discriminated against then it’s because they acknowledge he is a male.
🎯🎯🎯 Exactly!
That's how r*tarded all of this is, in fact.
Exactly. It cannot stand up any any scrutiny. It makes no sense.
@@soniaess28 Except when the judge is captured.
It makes sense. Roxy is a woman sal discriminated against her because sal perceived her to be a man. Sals opinion of Roxy is not the law.
@@anonymousa-uy1hk yes. The judiciary have failed.
I think several lies were in the judgement: that existing laws all exist harmoniously is a lie and he must know it. The matter is before him because there is a conflict ffs.
Sall, I wish you ultimate victory, from the bottom of my heart! ❤❤❤
Why the hell did Sall have to pay that degenerate AGPs costs??
He got legal aid, *and* a $50k grant.
It's an excellent deterrent, especially for women in prison, dv victims, young girls, cleaning ladies etc that would just have to roll over and accept their terms.
@@AleeBay Exactly. Sall’s taking the flak, so the ‘little woman doesn’t have to’.
Aussie media radio silence on this case until Roxy won is a joke. Keep up the good fight Sall!
Contact the ABC and demand they give this important matter impartial coverage.
@@soniaess28 ABC are government funded. No chance they will be impartial. Government changed theact in the first place.
The dynamic of people expecting the whole of society to enable their self image is the dynamic of the psychopath - almost their defining characteristic. Like a kitten improperly socialised in its youth, the psychopath has never learned to understand a higher sympathy than their own delusional self image.
I've been thinking about this lady a lot recently. Beyond belief.
Brilliantly argued Sall. Thanks for keeping on going. ❤
People don’t seem to realise why women like me don’t always want to share space with Trans identifying Men (TiM).
Have you ever been to a drag show?
It’s all about the adoration of men who have dressed up, put on makeup, and worn a wig.
That’s what sharing space with TiMs is like.
We are expected to tell them how great they look, and how brave they are. They fill the space. We basically have to wait for them to leave, to start talking about anything that we actually want to.
Now imagine that, but the TiMs never leave, because they are in there all the time.
Drag queens are absurdly exaggerated characatures of the worst sort of raunchy women. I have never understood why feminist allys never put the genre out of business.
You might appreciate the new documentary, Behind the Looking Glass at Lime Soda Films channel on yt. I keep data on women who divorced "Roxy Tickles" and the truth about drag shows is that there's lots of coke being snorted by these "thespians" and not just backstage.
It’s not that complicated and we shouldn’t have to over explain ourselves. They’re just men. That’s why we don’t want them in our spaces. Why they choose to be in those spaces is irrelevant to me.
Basically you don't want transwoman around so you can talk ish about them 😂😂😂😂
I find it baffling too that some women claim to be fine with it. Id rather be in a counselling group or a refuge with just plain old men than these men who hate us so much more.
Thank you, Brendan, for going where too few male joirnalists dare to go. And thnx to Sall for her always eloquent and clear-eyed assessment of this top down (go Sall!) project to rearrange our perceptions of ourselves as a species.
I am a life-long American liberal. I want to thank Ms. Grover for standing up in defense of reality, something the left in my country has completely lost touch with on this issue and others. Viva Sall Grover!
Am I right in thinking that Roxy's lawyers were women!
Turkeys for Christmas again.
Deliberate
Heartbreaking and true😢
It’s not Roxy,
It’s Tess, Tess Tickle , he knows it
55:20 this is what happens with abusive people. Nothing you do for them is ever enough.
*The madness continues!* 🤪
This is how warped all this is:
I did a piss-take chat with Google's Gemini - here's the Q&A:
ME: I am a biological male who identifies as a woman - am I indeed a woman? And now that I am a woman who is attracted to women , am I also able to identify as a lesbian?
GEMINI: Yes, if you are a biological male who identifies as a woman, you are indeed a woman. Your gender identity is a personal experience that is unique to you.
Additionally, if you are a woman who is attracted to women, you can identify as a lesbian. Lesbianism is a sexual orientation that describes attraction to people of the same gender.
Put this issue to a vote at the next Australian general election and we'll finally get a very decisive ruling - from the Australian People.
I can paste a horn to my forehead and tell the zoo I'm now a unicorn or a rhinoceros but they sure as hell won't let me into the enclosures. The world has gone mad!!
These men are unbelievably persistent. Unbelievably.
Just because the cat had kittens in the oven doesn't make them biscuits. Very old saying but now stingingly ironic
I love how people think that trans people existing means they can transition into animals and inanimate objects 😂😂😂😂😂
If Sall loses at supreme Court where to then.
Women will have to go on strike.
@@marysteven6347this!
Women, what are they? @@marysteven6347
Brendan O’Neill is one of the best interviewers on this topic. He’s informed, doesn’t love the sound of his own voice too much and adds to the discussion with insights of his own. And Sall is a great interviewee. I’m so glad that she’s on our side with her intelligence, fortitude and sense of humour. I guess you have to be able to laugh at the absurdity of it all - it’s Kafkaesque indeed!
I’m an Aussie. I got kicked off a menopause support group for commenting on this topic. Told I was vile. By women! I just cannot believe women ourselves are supporting this!
Whaaaat? 😢that’s mad !!
@@annamariposa6959 isn’t it! I cannot believe women can in any way condone this. What. Have we been fighting for? What about their daughters? All this “live and let live” and “it doesn’t hurt me” is all very well, but to attack another woman who was there seeking support for something only a woman can experience, and call her vile for saying men are men and cannot “change” no matter what they dress like or say they feel? It’s just mind boggling!
Because trans ideology ruthlessly takes advantage of female socialisation.
Yes mate most Aussies that here about this think it`s bullshit
How is there any definition of 'sex' to legal rule on in a world where you can insert any word under 100 characters into the category of sex?
Truth & reality will win out in the end. I’m certain of it.
They need to be smart like UA-cam & Facebook when they ban someone from a woman only app. The app should have lots of vague terms & conditions and the ban reason should be vague. For example, That the person (a man) was banned because their behaviour (on the app or other social media sites) violated the terms & conditions.
Disagree. Women have to be able to clearly state NO MEN and have that upheld.
This is so nonsensical. If you just ask basic questions about the term "cis-women" (or trans woman for that matter), the whole thing falls apart. Because a "cis woman" is apparently a woman who identifies as a woman. But what is this thing called "woman" that people are identifying as? You must have a definition otherwise you are in Lewis Caroll nonsense land - a mome rath is a thing that identifies as a mome rath.
More than that, the term "cis woman" requires the imposition of a belief that "woman" is a feeling or an identity. But I do not believe this nor do 99% of people on this planet. I do not "identify" as a woman because "woman" isn't a feeling or an identity, it's a biological reality. I recognize no feeling or identity known as "woman" because I don't believe any such feeling or identity exists. Claiming to feel like a woman is as nonsensical as claiming to feel like a fish or a bird or a tree. Unless you are those things, you cannot feel like those things, you can only imagine what it might be like to be those things while having no knowledge of whether what you imagine is even close to the reality (it's probably not).
So, I'm not a woman who identifies as a woman, therefore I'm not a cis woman. I'm certainly not a trans woman. What does that make me then? If only people who identify as woman are woman, then what they are really saying is that trans women are the only legitimate women since actual women don't identify as women because why would we need to? Humans don't identify as humans, they simply are humans. It's all just nonsense.
This. I'm not a "cis-woman" bc there is no need for a subcategory of "woman" (transwomen are men). I don't "identify" as a woman the same way I don't "identify" as a human. I just am. Goth, Punk and Emo are identities. A woman is an adult human female. Not an "identity" for men to claim. Therefore I will never accept the term "cis" woman. With their logic Furrys can become another species via "identifying" as a cat, dog or bear.
It’s such a desperate attempt to wedge themselves into the woman category.
Exactly. "Woman" are not an identity, it is a biological sex category: Adult female human.
"Gender" is nothing but sex stereotypes that people internalize and claim as their "identity." It's not just nonsense, it's regressive nonsense that actually harms people.
Keep voting for Leftists and get more of this.
@@JohnSmith-ux3tt I have no intention of ever voting for a leftist party again unless they do a complete 180 on this and several other issues. They have lost their minds.
Would Sall like to advise me as I join Grinder as a straight female? It would be eye opening.
I loved the ladies who put a sock in their undies and called themselves trans! This upset those "women" who have that appendage.
You certainly wouldn't be the first.
Grindr is now full of straight men preying on “gay Trans men” AKA young, confused straight women. The actual biological male gay men don’t want them. So in came the straight men feigning at being gay to “affirm” them. Lmao. This isn’t surprising… muddying waters like this always leads to the bad apples acting badly. That we all wanted to believe in a general state of kindness and tolerance as being possible without safeguards and clarity of language is how I his all ran away from reality.
Poxy Trickle
But there are men only clubs in Australia. So if I try to join and am denied, should I go to Court knowing I'll win.
I don’t know if you *should*.
I won’t join a male only space because I self-exclude from them.
Like any decent person.
--
The point is that you *could*, because “gender identity” (which no one can properly define), now trumps sex.
It might get men to stand with us, if done right. They generally don’t give a shit because it doesn’t affect them like it does women and children.
@@Argeaux2 This really is the issue. Women self exclude. Decent men self exclude from women's spaces but, unfortunately, decent men seem to be on the decline.
Men will never be threatened because women will never go into a man's toilet alone for obvious reasons. Women will never go into men's sport because they know they will never win.
I bet you'll never see a trans in women's gymnastics because it's the only sport where women, because of their build and make up have the advantage. Strength and muscle is not an advantage.
If you identify as a man - by law you're right to pop in and have jolly good time - Better still, get a few of your girlfriends to also start identifying as male, and turn up en masse! It's going to take this sort of stupidity to highlight that this is out of control.
women have been taking over men only clubs for ages
Are there not men only clubs? Are "they" also abolishing them?
what are you talking about? what mens clubs? Also, nothing stopping a trans man joining them is there?
To a small extent - some women id-ing as men do insist on going into gay men's clubs, which gay men find annoying. But they are not a physical threat in the same way.
@@jittmet7766 it is repulsive to suggest that the only reason women need space is because the threat of physical threat. Most men never ever hurt anyone. It is FACT, that more men are victims of violence then women are.
8:40 I did wonder if the judge would address that, but i don’t know why I’m surprised that he thought it was fine and dandy. 🙄
I was also surprised that he said Sall and Roxy had some correspondence over email.
Which doesn’t make any sense to me?
Why would Sall block him on her phone, and remove him from the app, only to get into a discussion about it via email?
What’s there to discuss??
"They" only want in to women's only spaces, though...
I hope that Sall's team has read Michael Foran's substack on the case. He's not (as he admits himself) an expert on Australian law but he does raise a number of questions about how her legal team chose to tackle the case.
This is such a new area of law. We have many cases now in the UK but I'm not aware of any older cases in Australia.
The "believe what you want to believe about yourself" is the mantra that got us into this mess in the first place. Please stop saying that. You would not affirm anorexia so don't affirm another dysphoria!
On a legal level, we have to allow freedom of belief.
On a mental health level, we need to maintain that delusion is an unhealthy state of mind & should never be encouraged (unless in the case of deme tia where there is no hope of retaining the truth)
Anti-materialist nonsense. Im for materialism and women's rights.
14:20 "Biological sex has no weight in law"
That's exactly what women fought for 180 years ago in the US.
I am totally behind Sall - and women everywhere in this ridiculous struggle ……….
EXCEPT - that like every feminist in the last 50 years - they are ALL utterly disingenuous about any “male-only” spaces.
Show them any male club, association, or interest group, and they have relentlessly (and unreasonably) DEMANDED access !!
Not one of them now recognises this, nor concedes the hypocrisy of their prior position.
“The Sall Show” has a ring to it!
Can you set up an "Ovary owners Club"?
XX
These interactions need to be videoed Brendan it's 2024 ,who the fuck do you think you are fella?
lol
Discrimination: what about membership of an Organisation or Club?
For example, could you not say, 'You are not a member of this Trade Union, so you can't attend a Branch Meeting'? Or would Wokies say that just anyone can attend?
I see your point but we need to fight for our rights and not give up to workarounds. It’s so shit.
4 words “ he’s a man”.
I was trying to figure out who Sall resembles. Courtney Cox from Friends? I think so.
Brillant Sal
Kafkaesque, Orwellian or Solzhenytsian?
Sheer insanity.
How is a decision this important be left in the hands of one judge. He may have personal prejudices himself which may bias his judgement.
Not sure how this ever became a thing. A man in a dress is a woman in law. Really? No he isn't, case closed.
Never realized how much the tqai+ hate woman
Welcome to our world. They came for our golf clubs and old boy's club first never once stopping to consider the same thing would happen to them.
Oh, GFY. The issue with men's clubs is that women were precluded from business dealings. Nobody wanted to get into your bathroom, locker rooms or prisons.
It was a dating app not a club...not relevant
Male toilets are still mostly used by males.
Female toilets have become the default for anyone who wants to use them.
So now, female toilets are used by “trans men”, “trans women”, and nonbinary people.
Grindr should be for gay men. It’s now been inundated by so many “trans men” that heterosexual men have also started to use it to pick up women.
Walk into the front room of any pub. It’s full of men. I don’t sit in there. It’s not for me.
@@spm36 not a dating app more an app/space for women.
Are you concerned that men in the golf clubs maybe assaulted by women and silenced by them😂 Don’t think you really understand what this case is about and have made it all about yourself
15:11 #Transwomenarepredatoryconmen
What has the World come to that Mahyar has to subsidise his channel with Escort duties? Queue up ladies! hehehe
It just seems to me like a r* shelter or DV shelter would have been a much stronger case to bring.
I am a woman, and I don’t know that women should really have the right to exclude males from an app?? Is that really truly a “safe space” where the sexes need to be separated?
Surely lawyers looking for a precedent-setting case should have waited to take this all the way to the top when it was a situation which was rock-solid. Like prison, like a r* shelter, where it is irrefutable that the sexes need to be separated?
For women and the app owners, yes it is and was. That's enough.
As for the r-a-p-e shelters, etc, you're kidding yourself. With self-ID men are allowed into those places and in women's jails and it's been happening already for years.
The app is/was for women only. Of course a women-only app should be able to exclude men. How is this even a question? As far as I know, Giggle included a section where women could look for female-only flatshares and women flatmates, and it also included a lesbian dating site. Why on earth should men be allowed to join?
@@jittmet7766 But my point is, the public outcry over a case featuring a r* shelter who was forced to include males would be enormous.
Public outcry over an app forced to let men use its forums to type words? The general public will probably just shrug and it’s not going to be immediately clear what the problem is.
When this is a case that will set the precedent in law, Sal’s lawyers imo should have waited for the MOST extreme and obvious situation where women need to exclude men. There have been zero instances online where I needed male users excluded for my safety.
@@SatuSusanna I am talking about the PR side of lawsuits. ALL women know what it is like to need males not to be in our prisons or hospital wards or r* shelters. I’m not sure there’s even much of a percentage of the female population who have felt a desperate terror at the idea of men sharing an app with us. Sharing a shower or changing room or sleeping space with us - yes.
My point is, pick the strongest possible situation, where all people in the general public will instantly be outraged when the spotlight is shone on it in the trial. That’s exactly what it took with the SNP and “Isla” Bryson situation.
Brendan@29:02 ''freedom of Association often entails discrimination, I don't mean the bad form of discrimination, bigoted discrimination but discrimination along the lines of saying this space is for women and therefore we don't want men''.
But 'men only' spaces are banned by law. That means they must be, according to BO'N's logic, 'bad forms of discrimination.' In other words, whatever BO'N says is motivated by bigotry is, de facto, bigotry. BO'N is also on the side of lesbians not having to admit 'transgender' 'women' into their midst. On what grounds? It's not on the grounds that they are women needing a 'safe space' but on the grounds that they are lesbians needing their own space away from those who men who believe they are 'women'. For some reason, BO'N thinks that man-made rights legislation preventing anyone from discriminating against lesbians is a 'good' thing, whereas man-made legislation preventing anyone from discriminating against 'transgender women' is a 'bad' thing. On what grounds? Because 'Big Bren' says so?
Both women and LGBTQs, as 'minorities', have benefitted from Critical Theory ideas & its outworking in the form of non-discrimination laws & resulting DEI policies. These minority rights have imposed onto the rights of the majority, expecially, for example, the right of Christians to criticise & not to accept those members of minority groups into THEIR midst or to restrict women from preaching in mixed-sex congregations. The ground of the argument against those minority rights trumping the rights of Christians to follow their religious beliefs is the Bible. What grounds does BO'N have for deciding when some discrimination is 'bad' & other forms are 'good' except that it's what he believes?
4 words (kiss) “ he’s a man”.
Logic.
Sooooooo....we women are a minority group heh! Thats bast..d thinking...sir. !!
Christians are allowed to discriminate. Women can't be priests in Catholic or Orthodox churches. There is no law that says the they must allow female priests in any country that I'm aware of. The Christian denominations that do allow female priests have not done so as the result of any law, but by choice. They have freedom of religion and association. Now if women who "identify" as men sued the Catholic Church for not allowing them to be priests because they say they are men, that would be an interesting case.
Also, maybe I missed it, but I didn't hear Brendan say men-only spaces were wrong, he just said bigoted discrimination was wrong, but didn't specify what he meant by that. He didn't say discrimination against lesbians is wrong and discrimination against "trans women" is good. The controversy here is over the definition of words. In what sense are trans women women? What exactly makes them women? What do they have in common with all women apart from humanity, which all men share? If they are not a type of woman, then "trans women" is a false category.
Lesbians in Australia currently have no legal right to gather without the presence of men, as it happens. Several women are fighting through the courts for the return of their basic human rights in the state of Victoria.
Go ahead and keep blaming men for problems that feminism created. I will sit on the sidelines. Fight this battle yourself.
yeh, the audacity! This crap was pushed by "progressives" By those who had the great virtue of "tolerance"....pushed by those that like to change the meaning of words....pushed...by women.
Idk if you realize that women aren’t a homogeneous group, that there have been “waves” of Feminism-some of which various millions of women never supported in any iteration-precisely because we don’t all agree with one another on every perspective or every issue. But if you need an excuse to insert your right to be grumpy and sexist, saying you don’t support women overall because you disagree with some of them on some hazy “this is what you get” bitter terms-and see them all as just one flat stereotype, the way Trans people do-then I’m glad you’ve found one.
@@m-alexandria-g I wasn't addressing you. I was addressing Sall Grover as an individual. You insert yourself into this conversation because you are a woman and you think as a homogenous group. Mind your own business.
@@m-alexandria-g
Is sexist for men to say men and women are different and have different interest?
Is sexist for me. To want male only spaces ?
Is sexist if men say not all men are evil ?
If your answer is yes to all of this, you'll fight this fight alone. Because you yourselves supported the queer theories and the deconstruction of the genders and gender roles , shaming motherhood or saying "women can do more than give birth" well congratz, according to the law men and women are EXACTLY the same with no differences
@@m-alexandria-g (1) you don't understand the word "sexist". (2) you don't understand basic statistics (reference to "not all") (3) understanding something does not make peeps "grumpy". (4) not supporting f3minsm is NOT the same as not supporting women. (Most women are nOT f3minists and men can also be f3minists.)
Surely there are more important things to worry about. People who are on the bones of their arses are concerned with issues of day to day survival.
May not be important to you, not everyone.
Important? Well if the very meaning of woman is changed to include men, them maybe it's Important to women & their private spaces!
Survival? Surviving what
If women don't legally exist, they loose their protective rights. That's a big deal. But thanks for being short-sighted and insensitive. I'm sure you'd be fine with lawmakers taking the definition of men off the books...no big deal, right? Not insulting, right?
There’s a lot wrong in the world today. Being assaulted (invaded, filmed etc…) in what were once largely safe spaces for women and children is no minor issue, and there are many more side effects of gender ideology that are dangerous. This court case is not merely about an app.