Old Warhammer 40k Was Beautiful
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
- I hope you enjoy the video!
I forgot to mention ALLIES! - There used to be an ally chart and you could bring stuff like Tau + Eldar or Imperium + Eldar etc.
Music: Music for Manatees by Kevin MacLeod
Free download: filmmusic.io/song/4102-music-...
Licensed under CC BY 4.0: filmmusic.io/standard-license
(Shoutout to @MrRhexx) - Ігри
Nice to see the space wolves photos I took from when I worked in the studio getting called out 😊
When I was there the design studio was amazing with writers, artists, graphic designers, photographers and sculptors all working together in one place.
But after 6th Ed 40K it all got split up into separate and access controlled divisions. It made sense for the business to grow as more space was needed. But it meant sculptors didn’t work close with the writers anymore. Early on this led to weird discrepancies between sculptors intent and the writers bg and rules.
Biggest impact though was expanding the books team into its own division. You can see when this happened when there was a big spike in books and supplements, an increased frequency in edition refreshes, as the new publishing division needed to make more products and money.
This of course impacted the art. More was needed and fast. This led to digital art and freelance which early on had a mismatch in quality.
I hope we’re seeing just growing pains at GW and they change things up.
As a lifelong SW player, thanks for your awesome images! 😊
For Russ and the All Father!
Your illustrations gave life to what I tried to paint as a kid you and set us up for a life time of wargamming, so thank you sir.
This makes so much sense as to what happened to the magic. That environment produced my favorite parts of 40k. I started with 3rd-4th. I felt despite 7th editions bloat everything that came after was not anywhere near as fun. Even my armies death korps and admech got twisted into wierd models and rules that didn't fit. Horus heresy feels like the only part of warhammer that still feels like the game i loved. Thank you for the magic you helped create.
7th was a rushed schedule filler while they figured out AoS. Made me quite sad as 6th Ed 40K book didn’t get the time in the sun it deserved.
Guess it is happening in all big businesses. Agenda hitting hard.
It's quite simple : suits don't have souls.
So, as a company expand, and the numbers of suits raise, the end-product ends up reflecting the loss of soulstuff.
It's the sad reality in just about everything nowadays :(
We slowly turning into Cyberpunk 2077 but without the cool futuristic shit :c
@@Eleven217that’s…what cyberpunk is.
@@Prophetofthe8thLegion He means we don't have the cool cybernetics Cyberpunk Dystopias are usually associated with.
They really need to keep the original designers well fed and around
Back in the days when character and narrative were more important than tournament balance. 40K was basically DnD with armies. I miss those times.
Funny you should mention D&D as it is just as far away from its roots in design and game flow now as Warhammer
Agreed
It's so bizarre to me that 40k is now being explicitly designed with competitive play in mind, when in early editions it always felt to me like serious tournament play was missing the point in the same way as trying to "win" D&D.
@bencochrane6112 remember you can still play old editions :-)
@@5punkybob yep. And old books are either available as pdfs, or as used copies. It's just harder to find someone to play against. Clubs usually push the latest thing for more sales. Players of older games even get criticism for it sometimes for playing "fossils" that are better left in the dust. I understand why they say it, but it's a bit disingenuous, seeing how ruined some new products are
As a 1e veteran (yes, I started in 1987, I'm _that_ old), I really appreciate this look back to an earlier time.
I started getting involved in 1992. It's heart wrenching seeing how far Warhammer has fallen. It was around 2015 when the Hobby really started to fall out for me. Then came the Primaris Marines and I full sale checked out. I've been dabbing in The new Horus Heresy stuff. It's the only new content I am able to keep down.
I started playing in 2003?...well 3rd edition was king. It was a fun time. I didn't find it intimidating, but I did jump in trying to be fluffy. Good times.
Started in 2e myself, right on the cusp of 3e, and didn't play from 2001 until 2023. Been a lot to catch up on, but I've enjoyed the process. Would have been very interesting to see it evolve firsthand over the years.
I don't actually remember wat edition I started at, I think it was 4th? I remember Battle for Macgragge being released, so maybe 3rd? Idk. But yeah, I had a similar view on the vid. Great work from the creator and earned a sub from me for sure. 5th ed was the golden age for me. How about you guys?
1e for me too , was so exxitee waitinf rhe six weeks for it to arrive
6th is when I started and I got the dark vengence Dark Angels half of the box. I have since amassed a huge Dark Angels army and also started playing Grey Knights in 7th when I could take a small detatchment of them. The psychic powers, the penetrating hits on vehicles, the scatter dice for deep striking, the challenges my characters could issue, all of it was just so much fun amd I count myself lucky to have had a great hobby store owner who wrote awesome 4 month long campaigns with unique narrative flavors and fun twists.
I think my favorite time was when we lost power at our store and our store owner suddenly shouts "Oh no! A sudden warp storm summoned by the forces of chaos has blotted out the sun! As of right now night fighting is in effect!" We all used our phone flashlights to represent searchlights on our vehicles and it was a blast. When the power was fixed he then said "Huzzah! A brotherhood of Grey Knights have broken the storm and the powers of the warp have subsided! Night fighting is gone!" You were a great store owner Steve and we did not deserve you.
That's awesome :)
That's some wholesome shit right there; thanks for sharing.
Stories like this are what make a game truly special; not balanced mechanics.
I only ever played third edition. I had all the numbers memorized. It was so stream lined and simple. I watch play on table top now and I'm astonished by how complex it has become. I poured over the codexes and rules book, learning the lore and falling in love with the artwork. Ah nostalgia.
One Page Rules just might be for you it's a easier way to play with war hammer models it's fun
@@ghr501able it's been twenty years. I don't have the time for it anymore, I just like to listen to the stuff these days.
@@thedude5449 I understand It seems like life is more stressful now in days.
I love the lore and books of 40 and 30k but have gone to other tabletop stuff now.
3rd edition was so much fun
As someone who got into 40K because of what happened to Magic The Gathering during the Fire design era I kind of understand what a lot of Warhammer players feel about the game today
I'm saddened that all my Modern decks got removed due to powercreep and bans
I'm starting to see that no matter where we go we're all seeing a decline in the games we've enjoyed our entire lives
They’re is always hope I think the main reason for the decline in games movies and tabletops is because as time goes on people care more about making money than releasing good content.
And yet, there are things like OPR and people continuing to use the older, better rules to this day.
The beauty of Wargaming over something like Magic is you can just play the older rules or even entirely different systems.
everything can and will get watered down to fit the broadest paying demographic
@@josefrieckenI mean, that's no different from TCGs. MtG has a lot of formats with different rules, the vast majority of them being born from homebrew rules that gained traction.
And not just MtG, YGO for example also has very popular retro formats in GOAT and Edison (which in 40K terms would be like 2nd-3rd and 5th-6th respectively).
That said, it's true TCG players are a lot more rigid and competitively minded.
The simplification of the rules is not bad (they could add some lore friendly mechanics though), what is actually sad is that Warhammer40k lost a bit of its soul everytime it got a new editions.
Personally, I'm not interested in gaming the Warhammer, I'm more into painting models and lore, but I agree
When I look at guard, I feel like they're loosing something that made them special
For example, sentinel (my first model) used to look dieselpunk, raw and wild. Like real weapon of warfare made by facist government
And now, current sentinel looks too much cyberpunk. Too modern for it to be empire machine
Back in the day the rule were simple. Probably 4th edition was the most streamlined experienced possible and the 3rd edition codex were probably the greatest with a lot of personalisation army wise.
simplifying the rules comes hand in hand with loosing soul.
@@alet2691"Back in the day the rules were simple"
_remembers Turning Radius Ratio from 1e with a shudder_
@@Daemonik Rogue trader wasn't even a game, more like a bunch of stuff trow together. When people (and me) refer to old editions of the game in general refers to 3rd, 4rt and 5ft.
I miss the Codex rules that gave you the ability to make your own original armies/regiments/chapters/cabals, instead of just picking from the 10 most famous from each faction. Guardsmen with snipers, rough riders, and grenadiers. How I miss thee.
I feel like 40K just takes itself a little too seriously nowadays.
How’s that? More lax than ever before and the story is going down the drain lol
@CrucifixionxX I think we're talking about how much it focuses on being a competitive wargame now, whereas before it was a more lore and 'rule of cool' focused
I mind when it was a bunch of people on a single office floor in Birmingham, the staff where real characters who we got to know, battle reports would be hilarious, themed with jokes, now their only purpose is to sell whatever is coming out next. GW went form being a hobbiest company to being a multi million dollar franchise.
I’m a die hard fan and I agree
I like that, media is so full of self-concius postmodern parodies that is refreshing to have a franchise that takes itself with a little geniunety,nobody goes _"oh these primarch guys take the 'extintion of the human race' waaay to seriusly, they should learn to chill"_ .
Even if it ironically started as a parody of OG WH.
Great rant. Couldn't agree more, my playgroup had similar feelings regarding 10th and bounced off it. Now we just play Horus Heresy with fan made / 6th edition rules for the Xenos factions.
Me and my buddies do the same. Any chance you could link some of those fan made rules?
Agree! We need the alternative to the bullshittery of GW
Man pass me them rules plz. I really want to play a more narrative driven game that isn't just space marines.
This brought back good memories from when I played 3rd - 5th edition. It was a more narrative game style and it made battles feel like a movie sometimes with people often standing on the sidelines and watching battles at the local club. It was like watching a story play out.
I started playing tabletop with 10th edition and what you’re describing sounds way more fun and dynamic than what i’ve experienced of ‘move model, never understand cover, get lucky with rolls, and hope your opponent didn’t bring a meta list’
I had the joy of playing some of the older editions, i prefered 40k as more of a small scale skirmish game that actively encouraged experimentation and customisation.
I missed all the extra rules like eternal warrior and instant death. And I remember I played chaos Space marines during the dark vengeance box era and we had rules like champions of chaos and challenges it was so much more fun. Now its pandering to competitive spammers and to new players too lazy to learn the rules to try to appeal to people not that into the setting.
Challenges were the best minigame.
i played some games of horus heresy, and instant death was the most frustrating thing ever.
my bf attacked my mardruk zedras with his unnamed champion model. his weapon has instant death on a 6. he rolled a 6. dead. nothing i could do about it.
mardruk zedras is supposed to be a terrifying man, his sword is literally called 'the death of worlds'
but nope. a random guy with a special pokey stick just killed him with no chance to fight back.
@@easyeden5620Sounds like Warhammer 40k. Horus got shanked with a pokey stick and died and came back as a Chaos Champion determined to kill everyone he's ever loved. Sounds about right
@@easyeden5620So you think you should automatically win because you have a named character?
@anthonyallmond3682 honestly I love situations were a unamed mook takes out a named character. I had a funny one where my champion with paragon blade was able to take off the last wound on Alexis Pollux, however my opponent decided to use Pollux's hammerblow so he struck at initiative and he instant deathed my champion. It was so cool because it felt so cinematic as if my champion stabbed him, and on his death he brought down his powerfist onto my champions head. It was such a cool moment in the game and my opponent and I still gush over it.
man, as someone who hasnt played since 5th, its blowing my mind to hear what things are like now
0:17 ooft, when you showed that Dark Vengeance box I looked over at my brother's old copy that he gave to me a couple months ago. He's the only reason I'm interested in Warhammer at all, so a rather wholesome connection there
Hearing all these old rules explained again, seeing the old artwork and models, the charts and tables you could roll on. Makes me smile, I will never forget those times of my Warhammer journey.
i'm an old school gamer from 2nd ed, when blood angels and dark angels shared the same codex, when things were simple, and Captain Tycho was still alive!! we had more freedom in army building and even down to each figure customization in and out of game. we had so much fun just playing to play. i remember playing till 2am and had work at 7am, but that didn't slow me down. I'll admit the newer models and newer factions brought a bit of freshness to the game, but at a sacrifice to the fun. i haven't played a single game in 6 years, as it just doesn't feel right anymore. i still love the entire warhammer universe and miss my scratch built creations, but i doubt i'll every pick my dice back up again, and my passion for warhammer builds is a fancy version of models. some people build model cars, i build warhammer models, but i'll be sticking to only those pieces that catch my attention.
That reminds me of playing a really late game and we decided to do the whole game as night fighting because it was like 1 am. Back in the day where we were a high trust society and we were allowed to play at our LGS after hours and lock up ourselves. Nowadays they have to remove windows from the back room because of break-ins :(
I'm still fairly new, about two years into it. But two of my friends are old school and know everything top to bottom and one thing they taught me was the classic Warhammer stories/lore/ gameplay and I certainly think it had more of a soul.
A friend of mine and I flipped through the 8th ed warhammer fantasy battle core rule book yesterday. He had no exposure to it beforehand and he simply was baffled about how much better the art used to be. (Mostly the Blanch stuff)
Don't get me wrong, 8th was the worst edition or WHFB, but it was league's above new warhammer when it comes to art, lore and feel.
8th is such a tragedy and it was clear that some staffers in GW were really trying to make one last push to keep that game and world on life support before the sales team essentially demanded they nuke it midway during edition development (so no Beastmen, Bretts and Skaven books). I was only rediscovering the hobby then and I agree about it not being an optimal edition compared to 6th the presentation was great. The only silver lining is that a lot of that effort ended up being used as the basis for Total War.
I miss armor facing.
Yeah, when I got into 40k in 2020 as a younger person reading older player’s books, that’s the sort of tactical intricacy I thought I was getting into. Trying to flank a tank with a weapons squad to hit it in the side, without misplacing the squad into the path of something else
When I read the 8e leaks and saw that armour facing was dropped, it was obvious what was coming. Same with blast templates. Very sad.
we as fans should make a fan edition which would implement the best rule set's of previous editions in one package and isn't mega competitive or just by the numbers borefest but what the game should and was and that's fun.
Thank you for putting literally every recent thought I've had about Warhammer 40K in this video.
I think Heresy's use of 5th and 6th edition rules means it retains some of that character. I appreciate if you are a Xenos player then it's probably not for you, and some factions such as Solar Auxulia are incredibly expensive to collect, but the community's stance on ultra competitive play (Stone Gauntlet, Contemptor spam) means it has a different flavour than modern 40K.
5th edition was such a wonderful ruleset, sure Space Wolves could be a handful, but the games from that era felt good with everyone having something cheesy to get excited over. I'm still playing that edition to this day and have thoroughly enjoyed losing every game with my Eldar. It was a game I could always enjoy losing at. Rules provided the perfect amount of depth and you could still have wacky situations (like losing 2/5ths of a Warp Spider squad on a bad teleportation roll).
Totally there with you man. I started in the tail end of 4th edition and used to buy every codex and rulebook I could get my hands on, nowadays I only occasionally bother.
I miss all the awesome psychic powers the most and totally agree formations were the major fuckup, one that could have been solved so easily if theyd just made them cost points...
I stopped following GW's lore and stopped buying their books after 6th Edition came out. I much prefer to dip in and out of the old books for rules, ideas, and artwork. I'm probably one of the few who preferred it when the hobby was much more niche than it is today. Seems to be more popular than ever, and has become more corporate because of it. I liked having a hobby nobody had ever heard of.
I much prefer the older stuff as well. Primaris marines and the equally soulless Votann are too much for me.
I don't see how more people knowing the hobby is a bad thing. In my opinion the real problem is GW Corpos often having policies and decisions that are even more draconian than Disney's.
That and I honestly just think that 75$ for a patrol squad that's neither assembled nor painted is utter horse shit.
@@pyerackIn B4 some GW shill cries about how expensive the master moulds are.... totally disregarding the fact GW literally owns the ENTIRE process of production from design to manufacturing and has direct control over this shit
The two things I missed the most from 7th edition (when I started playing) are the templates and vehicle armor value.
Why I love the Horus Heresy so much. The armor values actually add a lot more to the game than you’d think at first. It makes anti-tank units important and makes positioning very important as well. Such a silly mechanic to have gotten rid of
@@wonkerswilly1967 I've never played but that's the most appealing and interesting area of rules to me. I think it was in a review for horus heresy that I first saw it mentioned and I was like "that sounds brilliant, wait that isn't in normal 40k..? huh, anymore? it used to be?!?". It seems like the difference between a well simulated driving experience in a video game vs the result of a super basic beginner unity game engine tutorial for making a cube slide around or something.
@@Shot5hells do 8 9 10 not have armor value? thats dumb.
I never played Warhammer just collected my admech. Mostly because I’m slow at painting and because the rules in 9th was so intimidating. I love Warhammer but I must admit that most old art looks better than never and the thing with the rules for characters without models is just so awesome.
I really get where you're coming from. Player preferences have changed. When I was a teen in the 90's, 40k was much closer to an RPG. Now, most of those elements have been removed. Today it's less about lore and more anout win-rate. I don't know why competitive 40k is the most popular. I think it must have something to do with the zeitgeist of Millennials and Gen Z. They have a shared outlook with a huge emphasis on winning and on tournaments. I'm a bit alienated by it, to be honest.
I'm a millenial. I started around 5th edition and I can tell you I preferred the rpg and narrative side of 40k. The codex part hits so hard because I used to just read endless amounts of lore and look at the cool artwork and painted minis in the back. Losing those cool little details was sad
@@midbeef2902 yeah, GW must have some research that says the game needs to be simpler for new players. They must be worried the current player base is going to fade away and the hobby is going to die out. You would think that if they're going to bother getting into such an involved hobby that they'd take the time to learn some immersive rules that make the game cooler, but what do I know?
Bruh most of us Gen Z guys can barely afford to buy squad of intercessors.
@@Prophetofthe8thLegion I hear you. I barely can now either.
@@Prophetofthe8thLegion *stops in shop, picks up combat patrol*
"Welp, see ya next tax return!"
A really enjoyable watch since I started at 9th Edition and didn't know much before then,
Brilliant work brother, expansive, concise and a great video 😁
I just recently went to a Warhammer shop and got myself some paints and brushes to finally finish my "Alpha Legion simping over Bel'akhor" army as I have some time to kill. I was a GM zealot as a kid about 24 years ago. I saw the release of Necromunda, Mortheim & Gorkamorka. I saw editions come and go. I will never forget the time we actually ran a 10,000 point Warhammer fantasy game with my armies led by Nagash and Egrimm van Hortseman... Even though Warhammer eventually faded from my life, I have always been a big fan of War Occaionaly, checking out the lore updates over the years. Listening to what you describe, the incredible dedication to the lore and the diversity of the rules that allowed us to really customise our army and show their differences is something that made it a great strategy. To see the state of the franchise is to see the Emperor on his throne... what has become of you...
There is something that bad management decisions cannot take away from us. The old rulebooks we own, our armies and the amazing memories we have made along the way.
Heard that the regulars in the shop are still playing 9th for the time being, I guess I will have to try out those "Bel'akor's Simps" with them sometime soon.
Keep up the good work, brother. Let the galaxy burn
This vid got me crying in TS and GK. They took too much with 10th. I loved playing Rubric marines and making every squad unique even though it was the same models. I miss playing TS, they're not The sons of Magnus in 10th, they're just space marines. :(
Bought my older brother who is a casual 40K fan (By that I mean, he plays a Darktide mission 3 times a week and goofs lore references when talking to me) and also enjoys going to the gym a lot one of your bezerker muscle shirts for Christmas and he absolutely loved it. Thanks for the perfect gift for my brother.
DIY terrain tips. Those were the days.
I’ve discovered Titanicus in recent years. Feels very much like 4th. Character creation with the titans, blast templates, scatter, armour vs strength etc. plus random explosions. Totally love it, and the rules don’t change every other week.
Yeah its pretty cool! Idk people just whine too much with "back in the old days"...There are so many great games out there, you dont have to stick with 40k
my lead beakies are crying in the corner right now. Thank you so much for this you've perfectly summed up my own feelings in a beautiful way.
I also joined during 5th edition and left around the time 6th started coming out.
I never knew I was this nostalgic for the old times... I remember that space wolf codex, and I remember those stat lines....
Back in the day: It might take a decade for a new edition to come out
These days: A new edition every 3rd year! Gotta keep pumping those numbers!
I wasn't even playing in the earlier days, just reading the novels. Even with that, I know how on the head you hit this nail.
👍👍 This is the 40k I remember!
This is why i fell in love with warhammer. My buddy and I were talking about all the fun we used to have pre 8th edition with so many stories of ridiculously hilarious outcomes. Once we had an ork player roll wrong on the shock attack gun and he teleported 72 inchs into close combat first turn in an apocalypse game with everyone screaming that he got into close combat first, and the target was a dreadnought that immediately killed him in CC😂. I realized the newer editions just feel boring and stale. We've been talking about going back to 7th and fixing all the stuff that needed fixing.
This was an amazing video. Thank you so much for making this. It really is everything about what I loved about 40k and idk I just can't find that feeling anymore for the game.
This was perfect. Thank you again.
I loved the "Why would they fight" at the end of the Codex. Really added another level to games.
Thanks for this walk down memory lane. It reminded me what I loved about the game back then. Flavorful rules and the fact it was a wargame for wargamers. The templates armor facings and cover rules might have lead to some arguing every now and then but it gave real depth that I feel is lacking now.
Just wanted to say thanks for this, nothing like a drop of nostalgia at 5 in the morning. Brings a tear to the eye.
Didnt realise till watching this video but this pretty much sums up my feelings towards the table top right now
As a person who got into Warhammer right at the start of 8th edition this was very interesting to learn about! Having not played the older editions I can not make general statements, but I feel confident in saying that out of the last 3 editions, 9th was arguably the most flavourful and interesting and struck a fantastic balance between the competitive and the more casual/lore driven players, at least in my experience.
Sure, it was plagued with major imbalance for really most of its existence, but the last about year or so of 9th has to my absolutely favourite time in Warhammer ever. Me and my friends all had our codexes out so we were able to run a big Crusade campaign, which we actually mixed with also some Kill Team and Battlefleet Gothic, and it was crazy fun and engaging. But I was also able to attend 3 tournaments which all turned out to be a massive fun too, the balance being good enough to really make the games feel like a 50/50 unless one of the players underperforms or rolls badly.
However, 10th to me feels like a hollow game. Sure, it is a game and it has the Warhammer logo on it. Yes, there are some special rules for the different armies. But really, it just feels like such a generic game, with numerous weapon options being rolled into one, or making the profiles near identical with a difference in special rules. The erasure of the psychic phase, the loss of Warlord Traits and Relics, and the new changes to making subfactions not subfactions, but rather "specialist detachments" is a particularly hard pill for me to swallow, as to me these are some of the core rules that made the game feel fluffy. And finally, the fact that, much like how you described, the gameplay feels like who can hide better, roll more dice, and if possible roll as many 6s as possible with the inclusion of sustained hits, lethal hits, and devastating wounds in the game.
All this being said, thanks to your video I will explore the older editions more, discuss it with my friends, and perhaps we might run a 7th or 6th edition game at some point in the future. Even though I am more of a middle of the road type of player who both enjoys competitive play, but also casual/fluffy games, I really am getting extremely tired of the meta chasing, the constant rules updates, and really the grip competitive play has on the overall game.
Anyway, enough rambling from me, thank you for the fantastic video and sharing your thoughts on the matter!
Man, I can feel your love for this stuff. I never really played the game but I absolutely love 40k lore and have been reading BL novels consistently for almost 20 years now. Also, really enjoy the shorts you put up.
Thanks for making this video. That was the edition that got into 40k. Even as a tau player it was fun to deck your battle suits out with all of their weapons and subsystems. I also played guard which felt like you where playing an acutal army with platoons, officers, and orders. Its probably the best edition that i played. Thats one thing table top games have over video games, if you have the rules you can still play them.
4th-7th edition was the best period for Warhammer. 7th may not have been the best, but it’s far better than what 8th brought.
I got into warhammer in 7thEd, I was hopeful, wanting to save up for an SM army, now I just pay attention to the more interesting lore bits
Thank you for making this video, I relate with it a lot.
My first thing i ever did in this world was warhammer 40k.
Im in love with warhammer.
3rd and 4rth edition was a magical time. Nowadays things feel like a bloated money grab
Yep! 4e was my favourite. Miss templates and vehicle rules the most
I remember watching first edition gameplay on yt and seeing crazy stuff like a dual plasma repeater and thinking ‘man that is the coolest thing ever’, I like how fluffy this edition is, all those tables seem like they can make great stories
I joined in 8th edition but still totally get it. I lament the slow death of firstborn and their costumizability, kitbashability and 3rd party compatibility.
That's why I just recently got myself a few old 3rd ed. codexes just to experience the older style with a few friends.
From the description: Allies. Can't believe they took that out, it was a great way to get people to buy more models!
Fun video. Far easier to listen to this one than learning it all piece by piece. But I mostly loved the shout out to mr.Rhexx and his manatee music. Lol
As someone who started closer to the tail end of 9th, this video was fascinating. I love these rules and want most to come back, especially the way ws and bs work. Thank you for making this video ❤
I am a newer person here, and I will say 40k could use the magic back with rules-- 10th is great excluding the datasheets/list building I think. But rules don't exactly matter to me. I think 40k still has that super rich flavour to it, and the Arks of Omen books were incredible. So rich. People fall into a trap with the old and start ignoring why we got here in the first place. 40k, especially modern, has some incredible new art and flavourful, soulful models (Black Templar range are incredible, Sororitas range is as well, as are the Cities of Sigmar.) People discount the art, but if you look at some of the new pieces they're friggin amazing too. The 10th ed core rulebook art is DELICIOUS. As are the Codex: Chaos Space Marines and Astra Militarum covers. Vashtorr's manifestation on the Vengeful spirit is also really epic art. Or, the #new40k stuff. Some of it's incredible. There's one with a space marine boarding or something and there's banners overhead and all-- worthy of mention but none because it's new.
40k takes itself "seriously" nowadays. But it's really very deadpan. Straight face telling you ridiculous things. In the Darktide loading screen there are absolutely horrendous motivational texts you can cycle through-- my favourites so far are "Thou shalt kill" and "See peace for the lie it is" or something. Just absolutely horrendous, blatantly hateful propaganda delivered like it's nothing. That's hilarious. 40k's still got it. GW's just not a fraggin rules company.
As for models, yeah they lost a lot in 10th but I feel like they're coming back with 11th. I think GW just feels they have to have all weapon options on-sprue just in case. Which is commendable! I remember many moments where I wanted a certain weapon and didn't have the bit. So it's good but I'd still add in the options again.
I concur entirely, great vid!
I haven't finished the video yet, but I luv that you're getting into long-form content.
Came back to the hobby after leaving in 4th edition, was honestly baffled by the changes to vehicles. It feels like a shift from an attitude where mechanics were trying to simulate the lore to an optimization of gameplay.
I really enjoy mesbg. Thanks for giving it a shout
Bring back the times of learning how to even paint well but still cherrishing your figures just because they were yours. Bring back the days where DoW 1 was one of the coolest games to ever play on pc. Rip those days
3rd edition rulebook black templars art is still the goat. I used to stare at it for hours on end
Jesus, this vid genuinely got me tearing up thinking about my 4th edition games. My land raider felt like the strongest thing on earth(14 on each side)…until my friend sunk a railgun on it and turned it to ash. I loved how the stats were and how funny it was when you rolled a 10 for a small blast template only for it to go off the table. GW needs to realise that at the end of the day. Most people are playing Warhammer in their mates garage with jenga blocks and soup cans for cover and a wobbly table, not in a competitive setting. I loved how every codex was flavoured. I think a lot of the personality has gone from the game.
The warmaster becons. Horus heresy is basically 7th ed from what I understand. It feels extremely cinematic compared to 40k, and with all the little customization it's hard to not fall in love with your favorite legion, as you have so many options and kitbash to do
Edit: dang you mentioned HH right at the end, oof. It is sad that it's really only Marines, but it makes me wonder if you could just bring in the other factions with their 7th ed rules
Apparently there are fanmade Xenos additions which honestly is pretty cool.
Those were a lot of great flavorful rules. Every faction had a lot and I really miss the options of creating squads and units. Crafting things was a very fun part of the hobby which is frowned upon these days...which is sad...Thank you for strolling down the lane. 5th was a lot of fun, that was the time I really put my fluff army down and started thinking strategically.
Ive heard and read a lot of older rules from both Fantasy and 40k and I absolutely agree with you. I got into Warhammer near the tail end of 8th (though I never actually played a game) but I wish I could have experienced things like the old shock attack gun, which could do anything from flinging itself into melee to deleting everything in a large blast template. I think the best way to describe what happened to 40k is it changed from a way to tell stories about your dudes (probably coming from the days when warhammer had far more rpg elements in rogue trader) to being an especially expensive board game. And a similar process was happening to fantasy before they killed it. I’ve read online and heard from vets, the fantasy rules were started to revolve around large (and IRL expensive) infantry blocks, with large and cool monsters and characters being shot off the table if not handled carefully, or embedded in another unit in the case of characters. There was this one video specifically (though I can’t find it for the life of me) quite similar to yours talking about 6th edition warhammer fantasy specifically which I’d recommend watching if you can find it.
I also love the old style of 40k. Thats why i created a alternative 40k ruleset that brings alot of that charm back into it. I play that now with other players and we have a great time, better than 10th IMO
as someone who got actually started *playing* the game in 10th, hearing about older rules made me really envious because some of them sound awesome and more enjoyable than the current system
Me and my friend group feel the exact same way! We have scrambled together our own “9.5 Edition” which incorporates the narrative elements and ideas from earlier editions like 5th, the new units from 10th, and the super fluffy customisation anf base ruleset of 9th - as we enjoy it the most. We use the Open War deck from 8th edition for the crazy twist, ruse and sudden death cards, which all lead to crazy moments. The cards also come with the mission you loved so much! ‘The Prize’; where one model has to pick up a sacred item of import and hold onto it, drops if destroyed or dropped on purpose etc.
We’re all way more into the narrative than we are winning, and have a large collection of our own homebrew characters and units whom we all cheer at their return for when they’re deployed again and again, all with their own special abilities or items we’ve written to suit their deeds or histories -and inside jokes, of course.
Warhammer will never not be about the legendary narratives characters, fun, and philosophies for us. We may never play 10th edition, as it just isn’t as fun and is far too slimmed down in all of the senses that you elaborate upon, and more.
I mainly play Grey Knights (Glory to Vorth Mordrak and the Ghost Knights of Titan! Still they fight, long beyond 5th edition :) ), so the 10th edition rules rather broke my heart - empathy to the Thousand Sons out there in the warp.
But at the end of the day, whatever makes one happy and provides the most joy and good times. As one humble servant always says; “And no matter what you do today - do try to make some time, for, fun. Toodaloo!” :)
This was a great video. When I got back into the hobby during 8th edition, some of my friends convinced me to try Age of Darkness/30k. I really enjoyed the rules, a lot of it just made common sense and were just so fun. My first game I tried to teleport my Imperial Fists onto the table using their teleportation transponders, I was going to use them to turn the tides of the battle in my favor. I found a perfect spot on the board for them to appear and everything. I rolled for the result of the teleportation, and my terminators never made it to the table, because according to the result, there was a mishap and they got lost in the void. I was shocked, devastated but also thought it was hilarious. I haven't felt that way about any of the new editions of 40k or 30k since.
The difference between the drama and the intrigue of a scatter roll / rolling on a table vs whatever it is we have now
I have loved 40k since I was high school. I was alone and never dreamed of even seeing enough money to ever get a mini much less a full army. yet as i am graduating university soon and actually have gotten the miniatures i thought were impossible to get i looked at tenth and thought where did all my wonder go? i feel this video has nailed in describing where some of the magic went, and though I am still painting I at least now know where to look when I finally put my minis on the table.
Unit modularity is definitely something I wish I had building an army in tenth, I feel like I could make so much cool stuff if I had it
Beautiful video I missed 5th & 6th edition so much!
Amazing Video 💎
I remember the scatter dice was always a fun element while playing back in the day!
Thank you for making this! I started at the tail end of 8th edition and have very little knowledge of 40k before.
I love 40k, but I have always felt like there could be so much more to the table top game… now I understand what I’m missing.
I know GW is a business and has to make money, but I sometimes wish 40k could (go back and) be that semi-niche, game that over complicated rules for the fun and lore relevance.
The biggest thing I miss from 9th, strangely, is the useless stratagems. White Scars had a really funky expensive stratagem that, if your warlord kills a character, you decapitate him and hold his head as a trophy. Then your entire army is immune for morale. You never use it. But you could GO for it, because it was fun and flavorful. Nobody in tournaments used it, it didn't exist there, but it existed at the tables at home. And I feel that's the type of stuff that 10th really misses out on. When you said your three vastly different armies felt the same, I felt that.
Tyranids are my other army, I remember when they had mutations, and that weird funky synapse net of casting abilities to eachother like a giant web. Now the Hive Tyrant is just another captain, but with higher toughness.
You put into words quite perfectly what I feel 😎
Dang dude this is great; beautifully done.
I just got into Warhammer in 10e with some friends, and with a heavy background in game design, I could *feel* something was off about the game from how all my "old" friends described their play experiences 5+ years ago.
I chewed up all the rules in a couple of months and just a handful of games, and could very clearly feel the lack of flexibility / creativity in list building and play EVEN THOUGH my faction has its codex already.
I found a bunch of legend and long-gone units and made homebrew to update them into 10th, bringing back their rather unique mechanics and interesting play patterns. Then I made some custom units to bring the forgotten / unviable playstyles up to snuff.
"10e is just Rolling Dice and pointing at things; it's a game of who can hide their units best and sitting on points."
But man... do I feel this.
The game DOES feel bland.
There's SO MUCH focus on the models (buy them, paint them, base them, kitbash them, make lists, attach them). But when you sit down to play the game the ONLY focus is on VP.
"Who cares that 95% of your guys are dead? You got more VP; you won, dude!"
*Doesn't feel like a win*
The game has ABSOLUTELY moved from a top-down design (where the flavor and lore come before the mechanics, and the mechanics are meant to serve that vision) to a bottom-up design (where mechanics come first, and you combine/alternate them together to try and fit the flavor).
Both are valid approaches to designing games, but you'll see the same divide in the playerbases as "People who are here for the story" vs "People who are here for the gameplay".
The reason certain games like Magic: the Gathering have thrived as long as they have is that they ALTERNATE how they design card sets, so no group stays alienated forever.
Very sad to see this moving in the direction that it is. It's so obviously boiled down that it's tasteless now.
i miss 5th edition and gw from that time. i remember buying the new grey knight codex and reading it in the back of the bus home, love that memory
I started the hobby about 2 years ago in 2022. I was fortunate enough to be start with 5th edition as the rules/codexs where cheaper to buy. I love the older stuff even though it was before my hobby time. All the points in this video where great and makes me appreciate the path I ended up on in this hobby
From 2nd to 5th was about war and Battles. 6th was hybrid but started to introduce more capturing objectives, from 7th to now, is all about the capturing of objectives, how to capture points and how to maximize those. It's not about removing treats or deal with your opponent with the strategy of war, rather to, how can I min/max points that I receive playing the game. Gw is more about pushing the competition instead of making good armies that you can play with your friends. Gw fears that they can get canibalized by older editions of 40k as well. At this point they could create different formats and ways to play. 10th edition will grow to become a complex editions as the others before it, GW can't scape the Bloat, and they are a models company first, the rules are only complementary, they are an excuse to sell models, but not a goal to sell them anymore.
It feels like the more friendly your game group, the more soul the game has
Yk, to have a name like Deadlifts for the dark gods, you have a very gentle voice.
Not a bad problem! that just means I'm gonna be rewatching this video while i paint or something so I can have a calm voice in the BG over some of the more "extreme" 40k channels! ^^
Primaris kinda ruled out the struggling grim dark aesthetic of the imperium. Now we have a primarch leading sleek clean new marines (which is cool btw)
The old marines had a much less uniformed look, armored pieced together from different marks that were thousands of years old. I do miss the old aesthetic but I’m not mad at the direction things are going. It makes the old first born, Badab era even cooler and more detailed
I think the Primaris marines would've been more interesting if instead of just being perfect replacements to shove down everyone's throats they were sort of a big trade-off, having stronger capabilities but being more vulnerable to their geneseed mutations or something. It would've helped usher them in without forcing firstborn/classic marines out of the setting. But it's pretty obvious GW doesn't care about setting and just wants to sell you the exact same shit you already bought but 1.5x larger.
@@spimpsmacker6422 primaris were clean and new because they were, they were all made after the heresy, we see in the 9th edition release a more grungy version with the bladeguard really owning that "space knight" look
It’s nice to just have some status quo change after years stagnation.
@@spimpsmacker6422 agree, they are kindve ALL ultramarines haha
@@brianwilkowski9754 true, the imperium might’ve fallen without a little facelift
As a lore enjoyer and also a competitive player of Kill Team. For playing I prefer a soft ruleset, even for narrative and crusade. I have my pencil, imy brush and all my modeling tools for giving flavour to my armies.
So I'm pretty happy about the state of the games right now.
Man this made me miss the days of playing 40k at my FLGS during 7th…
Dam dude what you said with the art work hit me right in the feels. I knew I missed somthing but hearing it all in succession was to much. I wouldn’t say I’d want everything from 4th like scatter dice but most was better than the frowning stats around we have now
Movement characteristic is actually the one good thing they added back into the game.
Yes, it was a thing in 2nd edition.
I joined 40k tabletop at the beginning of 8 edition, but got interested in the lore like 6 years ago. I always thought that a lot of the rules felt wired like lasguns doing damage to a dreadnought or tanks and I guess this is why. I would love to try this 40k tabletop
Damn. I never really actively played 40k, but this made even me nostalgic for reading the old WD and watching others play.
Got into Warhammer in 2021 and Black Legion was my first chapter, I think it's the fun fact I'm allowed to take any warband or cultist marines as long they are in a black scheme like Khorne Berzerkers and Rubric Marines
Damn it, GW. You had ONE job.
I can't describe the feeling I got watching this. Got me feeling nostalgic for something I've never ever played.
There's a lot of rules and it sounds a tad complex, sure, but like you said (and said absolutely right), you get used to it and then it'll become easy.
Having a buddy that loves Chaos Space Marines, the idea that his champion bloke could turn into a Warp Spawn or a full-fledged Daemon Prince sounds extremely fun, possibly making some derpy funny moments. It sounds just like the kind of thing I'd love to play casually with my buddies for gigs and shittles.
Being able to challenge leaders also sounds amazing, not only in flavour considering the setting, but as a strategy too. I just love all of it.
What edition was this, exactly? I'd like to get into it with my fellas, count me converted
This is the 6 and 7 editions presumably
yup.. I went back to 4th ed, that´s what i started with. Love it.
I drifted from the hobby around the end of 5th edition and came back to it last year for 10th and have been experiencing what I can only describe as a kind of culture shock because of exactly this. It's not just that the mechanics have changed, but the way they have changed has dramatically shifted the tone of the game and the way it feels to play.