The lack of rail and optics space and difficulty of stabilizing off of rocks would be solved by a 20" barrel. You'd get the ballistics of a 20" with the OAL of what, a 12.5"? 14.7? Best of both worlds honestly. The reason Bullpups suck is that the market views them as a solution to the question "how short can we make a 16" rifle?" When it should be viewed as as an answer to "how can we get extra performance without the gun becoming impractical?"
100% agree. I actually reccomend getting the 18" barrel X95 over the 16" because the longer barrel lets you replace that brick of a rubber buttpad with a flat plate. If you're forced to have length and weight because of OAL requirements, you might as well put it into the barrel.
I have an 18" X95 and it's been great so far. More reliable than the AR platform. And I'm an 18C combat vet from OIF and OEF. For precise shooting I'll take my AR. But reliability the X95 is better.
The other reason people don't like bullpups is because they mostly use their rifles outdoors, where shortening the weapon has much less benefit, and actually even some drawbacks. A bullpup design is much more practical for indoor use. Where longer rifles are cumbersome, and a longer sight radius has no benefit.
Ex Australian Army here. I carried a Steyr for roughly 15 years and 4 deployments. Few points from my experience are that 1. Way less modular. And I’m not just talking retail space for attachments. The stock is fixed. There’s no accounting for body armour or the size of the shooter with an adjustable stock like an m4/ar platform. 2. It’s heavier - the base weight was about 4kg (almost 9 pounds). Before attachments. (What’s an M4 like 6 pounds?). It’s pretty well balanced - unlike the SA80. That thing had a lot of junk the in trunk. 3. It’s not especially reliable firing in unorthodox positions - Australian Army trains in “combat shooting” which looks a lot like competition shooting from barricades and unorthodox positions like canting the rifle to shoot through keyholes and under cars etc. we tended to experience ALOT of stoppages from these positions. Double feeds etc 4. Reload drills etc were slower and clunkier. This was due to a number of factors such as having to utilise the cocking handle (no bolt release button on the steyr. There was one added to the EF88 which is the upgraded Australian Variant). the magazine being below your eye-line and having to raise it up to your “workspace”. Obviously this comes down to doing repetitions to bring this time down but it always felt a lot faster and smoother on the M4. 5. The trigger SUCKS! It’s a really fat and heavy trigger. I’m assuming due to being an original Austrian design this was for cold mountainous terrain in mind where you will be wearing heavy gloves and drinking schnapps in your ration pack but yeah always hated the trigger. 5. Not sure if this was ever fact checked but we were always told that the Australian Army was paying a lot more for steyrs than what was offered to buy m4s off the US. The issue was we weren’t granted to buy licence to manufacture the bolt locally which steyr was offering. I guess they figured at the time they could make money back selling our steyr version to other countries. 6. Our SF don’t want a bar of them. In 1992/1993 when they came into service our standard rifle was the SLR (basically an FAL) and our SASR and latter the Commandos tried the steyr and were like “yeah, nah”. New Zealand too used to have the steyrs and have since got rid of them. Australian Army is now talking about getting SIG ARs (in 300 blackout) - I believe just as PDW’s for tankies and CAV but it may lead to replacing the Steyrs completely. (Which wouldn’t at all be a complete waste of hundreds of millions of dollars of tax payers money spent on developing a modernised AUG just to scrap it less than 10 years later 🥴).
To my mind, it's a persistent problem with design goals. Most of the issues are merely a side effect of a fixation on offering 16" barrels for minimum length despite the need to hit a minimum overall length. If a manufacturer would just default to a 20" barrel and full length rail for that, you'd address rail space, optic clearance and too-much-ass problems. Just stop trying to get as short as possible over minimum overall length.
At the very least, 20" barrel versions should be an option in addition to 16". Makes much more sense than going for an even shorter version of the MDR that you have to SBR because you really need an 11.5" barrel in something that's already short as possible. 🙄
Its unreal how little footage there is of guntubers using bullpups with slings. I genuinely had to google to see if it was possible years ago. So, I'm happy to see you two give bullpups some serious use. Also, I'll remember to wear the cool guy ballistic knuckle gloves if I ever get a bullpup.
i rmb using a sar21 during my ns days. During a route march/ rucking, my sling broke, the one near the front post (we got shitty used slings as we were conscripts) it was torturous carrying until we reach a rest point, so that i could electrical tape it up.
I've noticed that the bullpup designs tend to suit infantry roles that don't expect accessories galore. More specialized units will likely be trained in a smaller circle that revolves around the classic platform. Most (American) home defense and LARP setups gravitate toward "specialized unit" type setups. As a result, not many people or companies have really tried solving these problems on bullpup platforms because there's no demand for it. But given enough R&D and popularity, bullpups could come around.
Most civilians aren't driving up to a place in full battle transitioning from CQC to roof top sniping so the pros of a bullpup don't really apply to them. ARs are really good at specific tasks but the bullpup is a better all arounder, as far as some militaries are concerned. Talking about laser night vision for civilians is like complaining the street outside your home has too much traffic and potholes for drag racing. Few people are trying to do it, and those who do kind of look stupid. Also, night vision and lasers is so 2000's, get an infrared scope if you want to be tactical. Lasers just show everyone where you are these days, it's old tech.
Yup. If you look at us Brits, even the L85A3 is limited to a grip,sling and Elcan. That’s it. Some use a laser or light mounted on the 3 o’clock but most don’t and there aren’t any suppressors. Even the new Ranger regiment has gone for a new AR with all the bells and whistles.
Another curveball is shotgun bullpups. Picked up 1 last year and it quickly became my truck gun. Ton of power for its size excellent for small storage locations and manueving, plus it eliminates a lot of your long range problems because it’s a 100 yard gun which is more than adequate for domestic non wartime defense
I got the tristar 12gauge and its hella fun. Live on 10 acres in AZ and I see my share of unwanted critters. Useful tool, never lets me down. Kinda heavy, though.
@@tonyrichmond9428 i picked up a Tokarev TBP-12 late last year and ive loved it, sadly haven't been able to shoot it in about a year as well cause i injured my shoulders, but for the time i was able to shoot it, my god was it fun, and quite good out of the box. the only thing i did was when i got home i did a teardown and reoil everything, then pull out one of the trigger springs (there's 2) and file down the trigger to take it from a some 20+ pound pull to somewhere closer to a 5-10
That anecdotal hypothetical of a Palmetto State Armory Bullpup is incredibly interesting for entry level buyers, especially after the release and success of their JAKL line. Fantastic vid, thanks for the content and the experienced, nuanced takes. Ya'll do great, looking forward to more.
I have an SKS bullpup and I like it. I didn’t gain much weight reduction but it is definitely more maneuverable and having a rail for optics is a real game changer.
Just turn the JAKL upper into a bullpup. I've said this to Foxtrot Mike also but they don't want to make money, why we also don't have Mike 15 in 300bo yet.
I can only imagine the concussion youd get from having a G3 chamber/ejection port right next to your head and ears. thing would probably rattle your teeth loose.
@@iansanchez331 Not a hard problem to solve. Use a left-handed charging tube, roll it over so the channel is on the left side again. The handle will lock in a downward position rather than upward, and you can weld the rail segment along the length of the charging tube.
French soldier here, i was issued famas and HK416. Always prefered the famas. It feels lighter and handier than the HK. Moreover, on the famas you can turn all the ergonomic from rightie to leftie in 2 like 2 min max without any tool. Ergonomics are great. The rifle is really accurate. The trigger is really good for a bullpup. Changing mag is slower but you can be fast with training. Firing rate is greate too. The only downsize is that you have to clean it more often with rigor because it is a durt/sand/water magnet. And on the civilian sides of things well, it is a really pricy gun for being really rare.
@@erik_the_meh We don't need a book, we have a huge 50m arc of triumph with 96 french victories and 166 name of french war heroes inscribed in the rock.
@@erik_the_meh When you 've never heard of a Napoleon, Charlemagne (or shall we name him belgian) and Joan of Arc , you're pretty ignorant. Aparently France won the most wars and battles of countries. But Hollywood/UK doesn't make many movies on french soldiers, in english. So you won't know..
@@allws9683 Being from the US, I find other Americans' belief in the "French cowardice" stereotype incomprehensible. As if centuries of French warfare history weren't enough, I can think of three letters that (one would think) should put that stereotype to bed: *WWI.*
A good list of pros and cons. This style of gun may or may not be inferior to more traditional designs but the takeaway here is to train, train, train and be familiar with every nut, bolt and screw of your weapon no matter what it is.
They suck for rifle bayonet fighting. Same goes for rifles with junk all over the fore grips. Being able to fight with the rifle is extremely valuable. Not just when you're completely out of ammo. Getting engaged in the middle of a magazine change. Running into the enemy where you can't get the barrel pointed at them, a stick with a bayonet or a quick buttstroke can give you enough space to pull the trigger on them or beat them to expiration without having to go mano a mano. When assaulting through objectives, you will literally run right into the enemy eventually. A bullpup isn't within a country mile of ergonomically made for rifle bayonet fighting that's been around since the first guns.
@@joesikkspac7904 Good point, very edgy (please accept the puns). However, I have not seen a single video on the various platforms on which I view pro-2A content that has ever talked about bayonet fighting (and I watch A LOT of 2A stuff across the interwebs); this honestly may be a great topic for you to make a video of your own and show us how bullpups and bayonets do not mix. Now, I'm not saying videos covering the advantages of bayonets don't exist, but I have not come across them. Garand Thumb may have one from years ago in keeping with the fun tongue-in-cheek style that characterizes that channel. One of the frustrating things for me with online 1st-person combat games is being knifed, but I digress; it's probably safe to say that for the purpose of home defense, which is why I'd arm myself with a bullpup, bayonets are going to be cumbersome no matter the weapon system and may even be problematic if you wind up in court for defending your home from an intruder by employing such an accessory (i.e. "Why did you shoot when you could have knifed, why did you knife when you could have shot..." etc). And, while I demand the Fundamental Freedom to access to every bit of hardware to defend myself from the various categories of would-be wrong-doers in my day-to-day, I think statistics show mag changes are quite rare in the kind of scuffles in which your average person finds him/her self. If you want to 'bring back' bayonets... well, you should make that video and post it! I'd watch!
@leonrussell9607 the British armed forces haven't made much of anything work for over 250 years. Argentina almost defeated them. There's not a good enough grip on the lower hand of bullpups. Nothing like the rock-solid and much more maneuverable grip of traditional rifle stocks. Rifle bayonet fighting is hard and jarring. It's not just poking holes in people. It's also a very neglected skill in modern western armies. I can't speak to the former Warsaw pact and other evil doers.
When bolting lights/lasers onto a bullpup, you might have to embrace pressure pads and get a bit creative with cable routing. The Issues you had with the RDB's charging handle getting in the way is also a problem I ran into on the original Tavor SAR. The more experience I got with that Tavor, the more I realized why the X95 made all the little design changes they did (such as the charging handle repositioned well away from the railed handguard!) They were definitely listening to soldier feedback when they made that thing. After that, making the switch to the X95 was a no brainer, I really enjoy it. (I also went the red dot/magnifier route)
I see some of that in the X95 but overall I still feel like the SAR is a better built machine for some reason. Like, all the X95 changes seem to be trying to make it more of an AR-15 than really anything essential design wise... The farther forward charging handle on the SAR give you better control of the rifle if you ever have to lock the bolt back and the paddle release makes it so you never have to take your finger off the trigger while reloading if you don't want to. Granted, it's all an entirely different manual of arms and I get why people used to AR-15's view these as "flaws" initially cause I did too but I feel like that's the point, or else, why not just get an ar-15? I do think that all the tavor models do much much better on rail space than almost any of the other bullpups too. I went dot/magnifier as well in the end but had no problem fitting LPVO, Light, Laser, touchpads. Granted I run it with a C-Grip with the control pads all on top rail and I get how a lot of people feel like its too beefy and want those over on the left side for the more traditional under-side grip but if you do it that way it solves a lot of the wire routing issues. Never forget, on the SAR you could also always do like the IDF and route through the frame, under the barrel if needed to avoid the charging handle.
@@zezimadude13 The farther forward charging handle didn't just complicate cable management, but the longer cocking bar would flex and scrape against the gas block. The position also meant that the bar was at an off angle not in-line with the movement of the BCG. So while I liked that the charging handle was always there to "remind you" to use it, and the position theoretically gave you more leverage, you also absolutely needed that leverage because it was VERY stiff to manipulate. The spring clip on the handle was also the only part on my rifle to break in ~8000 rounds. The X95's redesign solves all these issues. Short bar doesn't flex, it's linear with the BCG movement, there's nothing to break, it's out of the way. I also liked the SAR's grip and strip mag release, I found it intuitive. However, the X95 actually shortens the space between magwell and the pistol grip to shorten the length of pull to about M16A1 stock length with the flat buttplate. (I like this a lot) However, this would mean that the trigger mag release would get bumped, and probably pretty regularly. You can even see where they intended to put an SAR mag release on the X95 as a redundancy and decided against it, and opted for putting the backup mag release in the stock instead. Good trade in my opinion. If you look at the X95's trigger guards, they actually have a channel for cable routing. Somewhere out there, there are grip panels with cutouts for pressure pads. It'd be cool if we got those one day.
I've really been enjoying my AUG. I have done some comps with it and there's nothing I really feel like I'm missing out on compared to a conventional rifle.
@@Jeremy-mu6cd A lot of people who did it for real didn't switch shoulders unless they had to watch a corner and knew they'd be sitting static for several minutes.
@@Jeremy-mu6cdYou do realize that, with a brass deflector, swapping shoulders is easier than an AR right? Instead of changing my hand position, I just put the stock on my left shoulder. My shooting hand and support hand stays in the same place and now I’m able to take shots on my week side. If you want an idea about this, check out Corvus Defensio’s vid on their AUG upgrade package. Dude does a weak side transition and is able to return to a normal shooting stance with minimal effort.
I always felt like bullpups made a lot of sense as a state military rifle. Para jumps, armored infantry, and a group of people who are learning to shoot on this rifle first and stick with just this platform for years.
@@HedgehogBarriers what in particular jams? bullpups in general don't jam any more then any other layout of firearm. They're not great for a lot of reasons but 'they jam' isn't one of them.
Having tried both the British L85A1 and the Aussie's Styre Aug I can absolutely said I will take my issued M4. I have used my M4 in both Iraq and Afghanistan and hand down can say it is a far superior firearm.
My main problem with the Kel-Tec is that the polymer/plastic does not take hard use well. It will break, but probably wont leave the gun non-functional (ask me how I know). You are in luck with that broken butt, now you can buy one with a QD mount on it and more length of pull! Yeah its a pain that in order to clear jams (since you really can't look into the chamber) you have to unload, pop the rear takedown pin, and then clear the gun. Also I find it pretty wild Hop paid $200 for that handguard that only has a QD mount on it although I suppose it does get his thumb closer to light button. As others have done, I highly recommend the Lucky Irishman bolt release. Also blue loctite all those damn screws that hold the stock together.
@@EricDaMAJ I’ve got three of them, the different versions, and literally the only jams I’ve ever got are just at the initial outset adjusting gas. But yeah, it is a pain when it happens.
You can access the chamber through the magwell. That said, I've never had a malfunction with mine that wasn't a result of working on dialing in the gas system.
Non-metal body have their obvious advantages such as cost and weight loss while the disadvantage is less durability. I'd like to think these points are pretty obvious for anyone buying a gun.
It's worth it to mention that your issues of not enough rail estate are solved by just buying a 20" MDRX. It has a longer rail and superior ballistics. Also, if you buy the Mantis bipod/handguard to go with it, it solves a lot of your issues of shooting comfortably from behind cover.
@hazzardalsohazzard2624 the 20" model mdrx is the same length as a 14.5 AR. Also, the MDRX is a heavy girl, as she is designed as a .308 bullpup. The good thing is that the weight is centered in the rear. By adding a 20 inch barrel you'll add a few ounces to the front, but it will still be quite manageable.
Part of the difficulty is most people come up on traditional layout rifles and that transition can be difficult. I started on bullpups so the operation is a lot more intuitive and getting the most out of the system is “easier”
Nah. It's no coincidence that special operation forces from virtually every country will choose an M16/m4 style platform over the rifle their own military is armed with. The SAS was choosing the M16 in various configurations in the 80&90s rather that the SA80, Australians had the M16 from Vietnam along with the FAL yet the Australian SAS choose the M4/Hk416 over the Steyer Aug. French special forces are the same with the FAMAS. German special forces choose the HK416 OVER THE G36.
@user-zx4vq4uk9c special forces are better being compatible with their own regular forces. Us special forces tried the SCAR for a while but came back to the m4. The German regular military want the hk416, the French regular military are getting it
Something i think the mp5 style manual bolt lock is more helpful for is one handed stoppage clearance. Guys occasionally get shot and many manufacturers noticed that guns like the tavor are really difficult or impossible to do this with. Y'all did a good job with this video fr.
Yeah the Tavor bolt lock is not the easiest to set, but you can't set an AR one handed either. The Tavor is easier to rack with one hand than an AR would be, and much easier to shoulder and fire with one hand.
To me a bullpup in the prepared civilian context is most interesting when you can turn a gun that would normally be long and unweildy into something that can flex into a gpr role as needed. For example a Bullpup SPR or Bullpup SAW/RPK/IAR allows you to get long barrels in a mid to heavy weight without it turning into a massive and heavy liability when you have to use it like a gpr because your squad consists of 2 people.
I'm off the same frame of mind for other reasons. After seeing Henry's breakdown of the rather large improvements in performance from the 20" barrel 556 I think that having 20" with a suppressor in the same size package as a regular 16" ar rig is far more interesting and would fix the rail real estate issues at the same time.
Any rifle even a 20" AR 15 can be a general purpose rifle. Any rifle that you can pick up point down range and and hit what you intend to hit can be a general purpose rifle. >bullpup with a longer heavier barrel No why would i make a 8/9 pound rifle even heavier? The general direction is to make loaded rifles lighter >Bullpup a SAW and give it a longer heavier barrel Double no SAW has a long heavy barrel and is already what 15-20 pounds? Why make it heavier? Why take away the ability the change out the barrel on a machine gun because its bullpupped? I mean your even taking away the ability to mount belt feeding by making it bullpup.
It's all about training. After 10k rounds on the X95 non-stop, the AR-15 will also begin to feel awkward and cumbersome. Weight is a concern with certain bullpup designs. A short rail can pose challenges, but there's substantial aftermarket support available for platforms like the Tavor. Reliability and resilience to dirt and sand are critical factors, especially for military applications of platforms like the Tavor. It's a huge topic with many factors.
The Australians did a very extensive test a while back comparing the M16A2 to the AUG when they were planning to pick a new service rifle, and the AUG utterly smashed the M16 in every category. Granted, they weren’t testing for nuanced preferential things like trigger pull or ergonomics, but in terms of general durability/accuracy/reliability the AUG kicked ass. It’s not enough to convince me to switch from conventional rifle designs, but it speaks very well for the AUG against other bullpups.
"and the AUG utterly smashed the M16 in every category." And yet they still issue M4s and HK416s to their special forces. I always say if you want to know what weapons and equipment a nation really thinks is the best, don't look at what they issue to their grunts, look at what they issue to their elite units.
@@Commodore22345 This test was done in the 80s. Rails and mission specific customization weren’t a factor, only performance. Also I think looking at it as “what gear is the best” lacks a lot of nuance. Special Ops aren’t just given gucci gear for being special ops, they have an entirely different mission set. A grunt, for example isn’t going to typically care about something like how “jumpable” their plate carrier is.
@@Commodore22345 This test was done in the 80s. Rails and mission specific customization weren’t a factor, only performance. Also I think looking at it as “what gear is the best” lacks a lot of nuance. Special Ops aren’t just given gucci gear for being special ops, they have an entirely different mission set. A grunt, for example isn’t going to typically care about something like how “jumpable” their plate carrier is.
@@arcblooper2699 Being able to manufacture under license was also a consideration at the time and it was not possible with alternatives on offer apart from the Steyr (Austeyr)
The MDRX is good because it makes me feel like an ODST with a battle rifle. BrassFacts, try putting a BCM KAG on, it may end up at a wonky angle in the rear-most slot but it fits, trust me. It'll give you a more substantial piece to brace off of, and personally I think it is actually useful for my grip. I see no reason it wouldn't fit on the RDB, too. Also, the FE rarely causes malfs for me if I'm not babying the charging handle. Babying the charging handle on the MDRX or the gas not being properly set is the root of like 95% of all the problems with the current-gen MDRX.
Desert Tech is owned by the Kingston Cult. Nick Young is a “Numbered Man”, and he has three wives. Of those, two of them are his cousins. I don’t do business with companies owned by cults. No DT or Kahr for me. YMMV.
You can get an alx or mantis for the mdr and if you have a longer barrel config you can even get a longer one which allows you to push things out even further too. The standard shorty may give some extra real estate too but the latter is 500+
Hi great videos! Excellent to hear the other side of the argument. I'm a fan of the Bullpup design. I'm a Brit, who has used the SA80 A1 (terrible), A2 and A3 vairents for 24 years. The redesign gets better every time. I have all so fired AR, AK and other weird and wonderful European platforms. Looking at your rifle choice, the ergonomics of your rifles could be improved. Eg... During a stoppage, I would tilt the SA80 to the left cock back the bolt with my left hand and then engage the hold open device with my left thumb, enabling me to keep my right hand on the pistol grip and gain a full view into the breach to assess the rifle state. (It's the little things). Initially we had the same problem with mounting sites for accessories. However, we were issued a simple replacement handguard that gave us a significant amount of mounting options for the A2 upgrade. During tours of Iraq and Afghanistan I was able to mount scopes like the SUSAT or ACOG with a laser/light module (LLM) The pressure switch was mounted on a drop down handle that also housed a bipod. With the 20inch barrel, the accuracy was phenomenal. With an issued drop down bipod and on your belly, you could reach out to 5/600 meters. You were really at the limit of your x4 optics at range and I'm not sure about the terminal ballistics, but you covered that in the video lol. I can't speak for all, but personally, if I could only take one rifle into battle, I would lug around an accessoriesed SA80 A3. Good luck with your new purchases, Fantastic videos! Best regards
Ex Brit mil here mate - I too deployed with the A2 and A3 and they were fine I thought. Also dicked around with some of the other weapon systems issued for certain tasks (eg DMR) and they too did the trick. The evolution in realistic training was what gave me incremental advantages on deployment, not the lump of metal in my hands.
SLR then SA80 vet here. I've never subscribed to many of the criticisms levelled at bullpups. My issues were confined to the build quality of the L85 platform, and led me to the idea that bullpups are a great concept that have just never been done right. Cheers all.
I played with an FS2000 ( only 500 rounds) and actually really enjoyed the boat. Admittedly very limited in scope , flat range shooting , but it was enough that I'd consider buying one. I think redesigning magazines might help with bullpups over all , as I feel like we're trying to shoe horn something into a system that is causing the discomfort. Not sure what the answer is, but I suspect its something akin to the p90 magazine.
Just bought an Aug, and exploring the aftermarket. Most (if not all) of your issues with rail space, night vision etc. can be addressed. Extended top rails and hand guards that don’t compromise the gun can be had. The only real issue is that they are not cheap. Edit: I found the choice of the MDRX a little puzzling because it is BY FAR the most expensive bullpup that I am aware of. It is close to a grand more than the Aug or X95, and the Hellion is probably 5 or 6 hundred bucks cheaper as well. So far, I really dig the Aug.
@@IanRoach17 They did not talk about the specifics of what can be done with the Aug. I was surprised at the extent to which the perceived shortcomings of the Aug can be addressed.
@@mandough First, I said “close to” a grand. Second I was recalling off the top of my head the bottom line number from the last time I priced one, which was $2500. Turns out that was for the forward eject version (which is the only one I would have any interest in), the side eject is $250 cheaper. I paid $1500 for the Aug, and I think the X95 can be had for 1 or 2 hundred more. That’s where I get “close to” a grand.
I would love to see you do a video for a tavor and an AUG now. I think you did a great comparison for civilian style bullpups, and would like to see your options on military style ones.
If you’re interested in anecdotal evidence I used an f88 when I was in the navy I thought it was alright, I hit 42/45 at 200m in different positions during qualification. It was easy to strip down and clean, the controls were intuitive I didn’t use them much though and I heard various second hand negative stories from guys that used them regularly about their reliability but never from someone firsthand Our sf guys like the sas and clearance divers use m4’s but I don’t know if that was because they were a better platform or because they could accept various accessories. The new model has been modified with various rails to accept them too so maybe that was the issue
Complains that the Aug needs too many parts swapped, but one aftermarket rail would have given you light and laser room meanwhile the copetek didn't even get a laser
I enjoy my Steyr AUG product. I dont have NODs or a supressor so I essentially run it slick with the factory Zeiss 1.5x donut scope and it actually makes a very handy package for riding around on a golf cart and vaporizing hogs and coyotes.
Great deep subject, there is a reason why you only see certain rifles being used in competitive shooting. Also Minus 5 points for mortaring rifle with mag still in, that never works.
I love my Tavor. Hands down my favourite rifle. Never really took to the AR platform, long before the AR became prohibited in Canada and even after having owned several. If I had to pick a gripe, it would be the 2 mentioned. Weight and cost. Over the years I’ve tried pretty much every rifle that has come out and I just keep going back to my trusty Hebrew Space Gat.
My buddy in the IDF despises the tavor, says its super awkward and not as accurate as the AR he was issued for a short time. He did say room clearing was great with the x95 though, but he ended up getting issued the MAG when he finished combat training which he wanted less than the tavor
I wondered if we were gonna get comments about the Canadian market allowing a LOT more bullpups than traditional rifles in the UA-cam shooter zeitgeist
@@pauldavis9387 I'd say the recoil hits differently, but it comes down to how you handle your rifle. I've shot the Famas for 10 years now and we are currently switching to the HK. I find AR styles way more heavier on the front and I feel it helps a little with recoil at the price of a loss of handling, because the weight is farther from your body (lever effect and all that). On the other hand I can really "hug" my Famas and it doesn't really move either with a good grip. You can hit at 200 yards standing up and 400 lying down with iron sights pretty easily. I don't really find all of their complaints relative to ergonomics (except the rails) relevant because I trained with it and I'm used to it. I have no problems reloading, clearing malfunctions or handling in it general. Ejection port is on the right (and is ambidextrous) so no problems with casings either. Because of all that I kinda don't want to switch to the HK. My major gripe with it: the ambidextrous mag release. That freaking button hitting your mag pouch and dropping your mag on the ground while patrolling drives me nuts. I'm right handed, I want my mag release near my thumbs but it causes issues with my plate carrier. (I know it's fixable but if you know how army procurement works...). Here's my thoughts !
As a bullpup fanboy, I can appreciate your takes on them. As a smaller guy my experience is the size/weight distribution/ergos work better for me than AR's. I've owned both types of rifles and the bullpups have just been a consistently more pleasant experience for me to use. Also like you said, I don't have to deal with paperwork for the size and don't have the finances to drop on lasers lol. That's just me though.
shut yo goofy ass up harold let the boy cook. he is on the money - weapons platforms are tools ofc. fit the tool to achieve performance on task using a person. @@Rubeless
If you dont use an AR a bunch, and dont have to overcome that muscle memory, i think the bullpup works just fine. My muscle memory is loading a 12ga pump, or top loading an Sks so ide love to try out a bullpup
had a problem with my rdb-s where it would become a run away. sent it back to keltec they did a great job fixing it and even polished everything, paid shipping both ways and it took like 2 weeks. so their customer service is top notch in my experience
The issue is manual of arms. ARs are ubiquitous in the US; like the AK, a Glock, Toyota Camry, F150: everyone knows how to use them easily and may have had 1 or more in the past. For each new platform: there's training which costs money, plus parts for maintenance and upgrades. It's easy to find parts for ARs and if you've trained with one; you've just about trained with them all.
Assuming it's only training: why aren't they being used in matches then? Shorter OAL, easier to point: sounds like they should be dominating ARs or AKs in matches.
@@andreivaldez2929 because in matches you care about speed. AR triggers can be faster and reloads also faster. Matches don't have the same requirements as militaries though, which is why some bullpups have prolific military use. Just depends on what you are going for.
That’s the thing. ARs are boring and generic. Bullpups are unique, innovative, and have some quirky advantages. They make great collector pieces while also having real militaristic use as well. Great balance, and usually come as a complete packageS
That argument applies to countries with Bullpups and different vehicles. I was trained on a Bullpup L85A2, can use any other bullpup - then I went to a unit and we all had Colt Commando's - I then got muscle memory for both styles. I found bullpup far better as a patrol weapon, but bizzarely the Colts were easier on Boarding Operations.
I’ve owned a myriad of different rifles and I always loved my Aug. It is probably the most fun gun I’ve ever run in a competition and exceptional for barricade work. It groups well at distance and accuracy isn’t an issue. It’s extremely easy to fire and operate one handed and can be done so accurately. I think the Aug really has a strong argument in its defense as being a do it all platform, especially when you introduce urban ops or mobility. You definitely sacrifice a little bit of ergonomics of running peripherals at times (unless you buy a handguard or wait for ARID to drop their top rail) but you definitely gain the ability to move through and over difficult terrain such as dense veg, interior structures, vehicles, etc while maximizing 556 velocity and cavitation. It just depends on what you’re looking for. There are things it does better than an AR pattern and things it does significantly worse chiefly being modularity, precision rifle shooting, peripherals such as clip ons, and parts can be tough to find IE suppressor gas plugs and trigger pack sears etc.
@@JM-cf9xy I love that comment! It's so common in the US. "But the triggers suck!" As if the person saying it is a competition shooter or the 1 in 10,000 shooter that *needs* a precision trigger. It's as delusional as the oh-so-common idea in the US that "I need to own a battle rifle in case the gubmint attacks me!" No, the trigger is just fine for the 99.9% of shooters in the US that only own a gun in order to fullfill their fantasy of being "independent" or "free". If you're only ever shooting on a range or the like then the trigger is fine, just as it's perfectly fine for the 1.5 to 2 million military users of the AUG (or derivatives) around the world. Delusions about what people need is the bigger problem for non-military uers, especially in the US.
@@JM-cf9xy Very true. But if you think the trigger *is* that bad then you've chosen (hello, Tavor!) a truly awful weapon, have done something truly awful to the trigger system, or simply don't know how to shoot. In the case of th AUG, it's not that bad. It's perfectly serviable for a service weapon, which is what it was designed as.
I don't know how I missed Hop having his own channel, but yay! As far as bullpups go, I would say forward or downward ejecting is a must, and that needs to be made more reliable for forward for sure. I would also suggest one of those AR conversion kits that allows you to accept P90 mags, but that's just for fun. If we could see a bullpup that had reliable forward ejection and took P90 mags while actually looking like a rifle, then I'd say we'd have a winner. The P90 is cool, but a long barrel looks dopey and a short barrel means extra scrutiny, at least if you're public facing.
This was a great video analyzing the strengths and weaknesses of the platform, concept and execution of some lesser talked about platforms, awesome! It's a bit of a shame that you didn't get an AUG or X95 for this video, but the AUG certainly needs some parts to be replaced like the ARID rail to allow a lot of space on the top, the clawgear handguard to allow for modern grips and more mounting, and the ARID trigger to wildly improve the feel and weight of the trigger.
Has Brass Facts ever considered picking up the 20" barrel + compatible handguard? Someone here mentioned it, but it seems like some of his problems could just be fixed by slightly lengthening the package. Though it would undercut the advantage of the bullpup concept, but if you want a potentially better NVG experience, it's a thought. Also, how did you guys find clearing malfunctions on those? InRangeTV focuses on the issues with malfunctions when it comes to bullpups, and how you are basically performing surgery on some malfunctions.
Being in the UK the only full calibre rifle I’ve ever handled is the sa80 with cadets. Other than being a tiny bit on the heavy side I really can’t find any major issues with it. A2/3 models don’t jam often except with blank ammo (duh) and the handling is fine and feels natural. The chamber is easily accessible ( I believe the opening is comparable or larger than that of an m4s making jams easy to clear when they do happen). The thing you mentioned about banging your knuckles on the rocks can be easily solved by resting the grip on the rock rather than bracing against it. Plus the magazine always felt like a pretty natural resting point for the rifle. Obviously this opinion as I have never used another rifle except in airsoft Also it does have a tonne of rail space which is nice when using right hand guard 😅
Being in Australia the only self loading rifles I've fired are the AUG (F-88) and F-90 (EF-88). Compared to other bullpups the LA-80 has some big flaws (even after HK fixing them), namely the charging handle is on the right and very far back, the gun can't be converted for left handed shooters, and changing the fire selector requires the shooter break their hold of the rifle. I am incredibly bias when I say the F-90 represents the best bullpup design, but it's everything good about the AUG but with more rails and STANAG mags.
@@GruntyGame the F-90 and F-88 are definitely better weapons systems than the Sa80 with little argument. Id argue that the charging handle situation isn’t nearly as awkward as one would expect though obviously not ideal. The left handed shooter issue is a non issue as almost nobody here owns rifles and gets used to shooting leftie. People who are left handed settle on the weapon easily. The bigger issue is left eye dominance which is harder to correct
@@sigspearthumb9574 I would argue the time and effort to get good with your non-dominate eye could be better spent getting excellent with your dominate eye.
@@GruntyGame correcting non dominance takes no time at all really and with a standard bod they don’t need to be able to shoot like Chris Kyle. You don’t need excellency just enough to be effective. That and modern war shows that conflict is going to be rather up close and personal in the future
The Aug was in fact absolutely worth purchasing. I have wanted one since I was a kid and of course Karl and Die Hard. Its just so iconic, so I had to cross it off the list. But it was way after practical needs had been met first. I was pleasantly suprised at how well it performs. My trigger is fantastic to me, not the best trigger ever but its way better than my PTR91. Yes, the options are limited, but having an A3M1, with a Mr. Tucker railed forend to give me BUIS, along with manticore raptor ch, it fits the role of a compact 556 rifle perfectly. Its simply a niche tool that is fin to shoot and does have its advantages, but if I could only have 1 rifle, it would be an AR. Still, I love it and may get a second. The thing I am thankful for most however, is the fact that we CAN have both, or all of them. And we must NEVER give up our rights to them. Thats what matters most.
Dream bullpup is a 20" 308 MDR (with side-ejecting if the fucks would ever give it to us), with either a Black LBL integrated bipod handguard, or a similar length m-lok rail. All the space you need for accessories, a full powder-burn barrel length, but compact, balanced, and heavy-hitting.
It's just SO heavy. I have the Blk Lbl bipod on my 16" MDR and its a ton of fun when you're using it.... but I'm thinking about pulling it and going back to the stock handguard to save the weight.
@@georgewhitworth9742 20" barrel for more powder burn and better suppression. Also means you get more handguard space to arrange things how you want. A 20" 5.56 bullpup would be great too for the same reasons
Everyone who has ever shot my fully kitted and customized PS90 has absolutely loved it. It's a dream to shoot and 5.7 is a great round, especially when they stack in a 50 rnd mag ^.^ Bullpups are also fantastic for smaller framed people, such as myself. A full size rifle like the AR platform and AK, is very cumbersome for me. In fact, my PS90 fully loaded weighs the same as a fully loaded AR, but you would never guess because the weight sits near your shoulder as oppose to over the forearms.
I will say that an x95 with silencer and thermal is very heavy. It's heavier than a pistol with NV and silencer on it. The x95 is balanced much better though.
Honestly I dont really consider a P90 a bullpup, and I don't think most people do either. Yes I know technically it is, but its so different from traditional bullpups that it honestly doesn't feel like its apart of the same family.
Is p90/ps90 a bullpen. I didn't think it was but now that u say that. Is the grip ahead of the breach of the weapon. It most definitely is isn't it. So yeah ur rite it's a bullpup. Huh. Thanks for making me think that one over
I jumped into the Bul Pup game with the Hellion and I have been very pleased with it. I had not had any issues with it. It took me about 5 minutes to familiarize myself with the manual of arms. Still haven’t purchased an optic as I am using the iron sights that came with it.
I put a eotech with 5x magnifier, Streamlight 1000lumen w/ remote switch, 2pt bungee sling, and a veritcal grip. this thing is a unit. trigger sucks, who gives a fuck. this thing is a reliable shooter. insanely accurate and compact.
Bullpups imo are better in everyway. My brother and i are complete rivals in this department. I refuse to budge. My BP has less recoil, looks cooler, is more stable, and accurate than his AR. My favorite thing about my BP is the mag being in the back. You don’t realize it until you feel it, but the stock resting in your shoulder, carrying the weight of that mag is such a huge benefit. Admittedly, you’re not using a drum mag with any BPs, but I think thats a worthwhile trade.
@ComsiCaterpillar yeah, but i personally wear a mask the the exact reason of gas. You’re breathing it in regardless if you don’t wear one, and you should always be wearing goggles or range glasses regardless. So it doesn’t matter really.
Absolutely. especially if you put the couple bills worth of aftermarket upgrades into it to lighten the trigger, fix the bolt release, and replace the handguard.
@@kilroy5166 slam any polymer firearm on a rock at a awkward angle and see how it fairs. FYI, Glocks are known to have broken grips for the last 40 years. Are they a subjectively bad firearm?
@@kilroy5166 i've had a friend it happened to as well. yeah. its a pretty big design flaw. thankfully there is an easy upgrade for it that fixes that issue. the Haga Defense RDB17 enhanced Buttpad
He mentioned it in the video, in short he doesn't like to LOP and the laser mounting option, he isn't used to the ergonomics, the height over bore (where you mount the optic). It feels to alien to him, he wants what's familiar.
Same here. The real amazing thing is that he even mentioned why it has the adjustable stock in the video he just didn't realize it. It has a LOP like that so you can wear armor and get into the gun and kit still. As for it otherwise my 5'3 wife has no issues running it. I think people overblow how big of a deal it is.
Use it somewhere that isn't a static range. They're all awkward to shoot when you have to go prone or shoot off barriers, especially if you try to change shoulders when coming around a corner.
I bought a Keltec RDB Defender (comes with mlok handguard) last year, not because I thought bullpups were better or because I thought I would like it more than my conventional rifles, but, because, up here in Canada, rifles need to have a barrel length of 18.5" to be non restricted (unregistered) so, the only way to get a short rifle that is still non restricted, is to get a bullpup. That is all that I wanted out of my bullpup, and I got it lol.
I think a stubby foregrip placed back towards the trigger guard on the bottom rail would make a great point to push onto cover and help protect your fingers. right about where the magwell of an AR would be in relation to the grip
Stubby (BCM) forgrip on X95 works great. 3Panthers also makes an aftermarket grip for the tavors that combines both the cutlass and traditional trigger guard (it’s nice).
glad to see a guntuber finally call bullshit on the whole 'its awkward to reload' and 'muh trigger' It's not true and even if it was it doesn't actually matter anyway.
i think you will find slowdown in reloading actually matters quite a bit in a combat situation. now for just having fun? na, not a big deal. but i wouldnt want to go into a firefight with one.
@@unyieldingsarcasm2505 It would only matter if you where standing up shooting at someone like in some stupid youtube combat drill. In reality you're gonna be hunched safe behind some solid cover, and the 0.5 second difference is not going to matter.
@@impguardwarhameralso I've noticed training on speed reloads is non-existent in normal military training (pretty much every instance I've seen of it is just bored soldiers screwing around rather than actual training), so clearly nobody thinks it's important. Doctrinally soldiers should not all be reloading at the same time, and your squad mates should have you covered while you reload.
Sounds like you can solve 90% of your issues with an extended shroud w/ rail and a barricade stop. Of course many of these platforms don't have an extended shroud option (especially ones that'll hold zero), and then suppressors that fit inside a shroud are also an issue.
@@3.142-x3b Kinda. Foregrips can get in the way when manipulating a barricade, whilst a stop would protect the hand when pushing onto a barricade without overly getting in the way. Coming to think of it, its probably some of the reasons why the Tavor and AUG have the exaggerated handguards. @nomercyinc6783 - we take for granted the aftermarket on the AR platform, with even the worlds second most popular platform, the AK not enjoying anywhere near the same, and thats been reflective in tenders as of late as the alternative would be countries usually having to invest in developing a platform themselves. Apart from the VHS, there's really only been one other Bullpup platform come into modern service recently and thats the F90 which does come with a full modern suite built for it. Pity you can't buy it though.
@@nomercyinc6783There is one particular difference between bullpups and AR platform. AR platform completely shit the bed in vietnam and afghanistan while bullpups are the most successful weapons currently used in Ukraine and Israel. Quite obvious which technology is superior.
@@Tacet137 One can't really say that the Malyuk is a predominant platform in Ukraine. Israel went bullpups because their forces are mostly mounted and expected to fight both urban CQB in the likes of Gaza, and long range in places like the Golan Heights. As for Vietnam, that was like 50 years ago and a crap tonne of development on the platform since then with all the kinks ironed out.
I run my guns fairly slick and that's exactly why i like my AUG so much. Its a spartan-esqe setup that gives you the rail space you actually NEED, while giving you the option of the extended rail space you WANT. Plus most bullpups are more ergonomic for me YMMV.
@@nomercyinc6783 Minimalist in everything BUT training; Laconia was only feared because they had the only professional army in Greece. That gave them the time to train with their gear that other city-states like Lesbos and Athens didn't have.
Same here I generally dont stick anything on my rifle I dont actually need. Sling, sight and good to go. I have found through experience that attaching anything not absolutely needed tends to not just weigh down the gun in the long term when you are carry the thing day in day out. If you are working at night yeah take off the sight and put on thermal or low light. The other big thing is that lights, lazers etc tend to get caught on everything around you and you yourself. As for the AUG, I own one and love it! Upgraded a lot of parts mostly with the Corvus line but it has made almost no feeling to the weight. Its ergonomic in ways the AR system only dreams of. Easy to clean and accurate. The trigger is not prime but its a battle rifle not a sniper rifle and can get good groupings at 500 yards with the 20 inch barrel fitted. The absolute worst thing with the AUG is the price of the rifle and the cost of ammo you put through it because you are having so much fun!
The RDB is under rated as a civilian gun. Once the gas settings are set it is reliable and very nice to shoot as it’s light yet low recoil, and great with a suppressor and with the downward eject as you noted. With regards to malfunctions….you need to understand you don’t clear them as you would a standard AR. Tap rack bang doesn’t work. If you have a malfunction immediately remove the magazine before you do anything else and then proceed with racking the slide. I know this sounds absolutely crazy, but the most common malfunction (due to either waaay to much gas or too little) is that the round being ejected doesn’t get thrown down the chute, and instead comes back with the empty casing sticking straight forward, which will then push another round into the chamber but the bolt of course is now sitting over the magazine and has pushed the next round in the magazine a little bit forward. So you need to rip out the magazine, rack out the empty, and then know that you will have round in the chamber still, so rack the gun again, or know that one is ready to go. If you tap/rack you’ll just worsen the triple feed. Yes, malfunctions are tricky. Just drop the mag immediately if you have a malfunction. Otherwise though, it’s a really fun gun, particularly the Survival.
i think some of the ergo/ gear issues here could be resolved by letting go of the typical AR front grip position. My personal preference is a vertical front grip for this reason.
I also think there is too much reliance on dedicated rail space for things like buttons and slings. It might not look high-speed, but paracord, 100mph tape, and bailing wire goes a long way. And if you really need a rail section on a handguard that doesn’t have Mlok, a drill press and a tap is a lot cheaper than tracking down some esoteric aftermarket handguard.
Trying to build a bullpup to be as short as possible with super short barrels is stupid. Longer barrels, longer rails and a few more accessories will go a long ways to fix these problems.
There are very simple solutions to just about every issue encountered, but the main issue seems to be a refusal to adapt to a new platform. Trying to set up a bullpup like an AR is just not going to work as well as trying to set up a bullpup like a bullpup. And as a Hellion owner, I had zero issues throwing a surefire and a pressure pad on mine.
@@bdp295There is one particular difference between bullpups and AR platform. AR platform completely shit the bed in vietnam and afghanistan while bullpups are the most successful weapons currently used in Ukraine and Israel. Quite obvious which technology is superior.
The main issue is barrel length legality in 'murica. Of course a legal barrel length bullpup is too short to put all of your gizmos on. The point of bullpups is to get a LONGER barrel.
@@hermitgreenn They're not too short though. You can mount all the fancy gizmos you want for night vision on any commercial bullpup. You just have to do it differently than you would on an AR.
I'm the only person I know who likes bullpups. I think my fascination started with them when I was younger and played tons of Halo, which uses them for a majority of their weapon designs. Just something about them that is cool and practical in my eyes.
My experience is with the AUG and X95. My AUG A3 SA (the old version) seems to have some significant POI shift since the foregrip is attached to the barrel. I can get 2.5 groups at 100 yards on paper but then not even hit steel targets. It could be the difference between the grip’s being folded or held, but I’ve also noticed the barrel moves forward and backward a bit when locked in place. My newer A3 M1’s barrel doesn’t shift like that, but I haven’t done a comparison in accuracy and precision yet. They are really awkward to get into prone and supported shooting positions with, especially if using a mix of 30 round and 42 round mags. There’s also the problem that the gas port will burn the shooter’s hand if not careful or the vented gas will annihilate any bag used as a rest when shooting. I haven’t shot the X95 at long range to test precision, but the default buttpad is square and feels terrible because instead of adding an inch to the barrel to meet the 26” minimum overall length, IWI chose to add that to the civilian buttpad. Using the original slanted buttpad makes the gun an SBR even with the 16 inch barrel. The cutlass grip works on the AUG because it has a 1911 shaped trigger, but it does not work on the X95 because it has a normal hinge trigger. My natural tendency is to choke up on the grip which would frequently put my middle finger behind the trigger and prevent the gun from firing. I had to buy the pistol grip with regular trigger guard to fix that. It doesn’t look as cool, but oh, well. Up until about a year ago, I was trying to be a hipster and use the AUG as my primary rifle and I thought AR15s are boring and tasteless, but now I have an AR that is my go-to rifle, but I have it set up like a heavy Block I so that it’s still somewhat hipster. I could probably shoot more and iron out or at least sus out the issues I have, but meh.
I agree with you on the X95 buttpad. It's a huge hunk of rubber...which weighs a lot. As well as, the rubber sides always caught on my gear. What I did, is I purchased the thinner, plastic buttplate. And then I pinned and welded the (OEM) muzzle device. IWI should've just offered a 17" barrel..as you mentioned.
As someone who has carried a bullpup for military service, in my opinion the best attribute is the handiness and ease to run and march with one. It fits in very easily under the arm, making carriage over long distances more comfortable
I have the RFB (forward ejecting which is more gooder) .308 and I love it. If people can get passed the price it is a better designed rifle. With the weight in closer to your body the gun is incredibly stable. It would be hard to get it away from someone. Easy to handle in the truck with a very good trigger. I have all kinds of crap hanging on mine without needing more room, I did order the additional rail but it's the short barrel. I live in the mountains of Tennessee where a 300 yard shot is about all I get, the short barrel handles 300 yards with no problems. Now for my gripes which has nothing to do with the gun. I bought mine in a black Friday Kel-Tec sale for $975, it is normally $2000. $2000 is bull crap if you can still make money at $975, a gun is supposed to protect ya from the thieves. If you're on the fence about bullpups go feel of one then decide.
@@VergorioVergara I think mine is probably from the third year of Trump's presidency because guns and ammo was easy to find at competitive prices. I ordered directly from Kel-Tec for $975 and it shipped free to the FFL of my choices leaving $25 for the FFL to do the transfer and the customer had $1,000 in the gun. I'll give a thousand but two thousand plus!!! Not this old man, I'm not going to war. Whatever happens, happens in my front yard and I only need enough ammo to get me killed. I stocked up on everything during Trump's last three years. I knew after Obummer we had better buy when the prices stabilized. That time was probably the last time we'll see reasonable prices???
When I got my first riffle I had the benefit of not being indoctrinated by the AR platform and so was able to look at things objectively for my needs and wants. Suppression was highest on my priority list, small form factor was second. So when I learned the RDB 17 was was arguably the champ at suppression in it's class and had a small form factor but a ballistic advantage over similar overall length riffles in its class, it was a no brainer. Gripes consisted of the truth that you do need to loctite the screws on the top rail, I felt paying that price for a riffle one should not have to be concerned with rail screws coming out, and mine did, smh. 2nd gripe kinda, just learning the difference in clearing malfunctions (compared to my buddies ARs that I shot before), with the RDB as someone has previously mentioned here, the first thing you must do is remove the magazine before running and racking the charging handle, if you don't this will make things worse vs easily resolvable. Usually improper gas setting are the culprit of malfunctions, master those and you'll be good. ... Burris RT6 LPVO, 45 degree green dot offset at the very front of the riffle, streamlight HL-X (pressure pad on top in front of lpvo) with Arisaka inline mount attached to Lucky Irishman rail, ottercreek suppressor... it's lovely! In all my research prior to and after my first riffle, the RDB 17, it appeared to me that it gets crapped on only because it is not an AR (and that it's from Keltec lol). But you like what you like!
Great video thank you. I have also found it is a lot more difficult to get a bullpup as clean inside as you could a regular style rifle, and they tend to be heavy for their size. They are still cool though!
So what. Rifles dont have to be spotless. Unless youre using old surplus corrosive ammo (all 5.56 ammo is Non-corrosive) than it doesnt have to be perfectly clean. When people go in and start scrapping carbon off their internals they usually just end up damaging their guns, especially the bolt and bcg on ARs
I love freaking bullpup rifles. They make 10x mroe sense for urban conflict than most other rifles. Modern tech has resolved the trigger issue, and if you need that buffer spring that makes an ar15 such a light shot then you need to hit the gym. Compactness with full ballistics of a full rifle? Makes sense. I own a keltec RFB ive modded, Tavor X95 (also modded), and an M14 I put into a bullpup case. You cant get me back to regular rifles.
Idk if you consider the Mdrx’s weight as a package that can sling 308 or 6.5 creedmore it now is in better company with more “battle rifles”. The price and the fact you basically have to buy and after market rail for any bullpup to get modern utility out of it is a big issue especially for the Mdrx and its price point
My RDB defender (1 inch shorter barrel than the standard RDB) is a pain in the ass to disassemble compared to an AR. I absolutely love it though, looks so damn cool, and is so easy to maneuver. It definitely kicks harder than an ar, as it doesn't have that buffer system, but I love it. I run a 4-16x scope and a 45 degree offset red dot, angled foregrip, and a Flashlight with a pressure pad. It's a very fun gun to shoot, other people love to see it too. I blame my love for Halo growing up!
So it pretty much boils down to people being unhappy they can't over kit their gun? Could just create an extended frame that can house the suppressor and house more rails for attachments. Never understand why people wish to add tons of attachments to their weapons, you specialize your setups, creating one setup for all situations just creates an over bulked mess of a kit. If you really wish to over kit you could just buy attachments that can do multiple things.
I collect milsurps and have an RDB to fill an L85A3 niche with a Lucky Irishman handguard/bolt release, PA 2.5 prism, old surefire on an offset Haley Strategic mount, OTAL-C on the side and a grip pod. It is about spot on for 2nd kind of cool for me, but after this video I think there could be potential to take this to GPR territory. My Perst 4 fits on the 12 o'clock rail flush enough to not bust my knuckles charging the rifle and if I did the unity switch mod and paired it with a vampire flashlight I think it could make the jump to a GPR since the offset of the OTAL turns into such a shit show . I think the grip pod on a bullpup may be one of the few cases where it actually makes sense. The lucky irishman bolt release is also an upgrade you should consider. Great video as always!
I love my FS2000 and was glad to get one before they became so scarce. It seems like the chonkiness would make it unwieldy but it handles very well. Almost completely ambi controls (except the charging handle) and forward ejection. The “toilet seat cover” lets u check the chamber and theoretically clear malfunctions but I have yet to experience one. Hope FN re-releases it, maybe as collectors vault edition
The FS2000 really is very nice rifle. My buddy has one and we brought his whole arsenal out to shoot all day once. I spent the vast majority of the day shooting his FS2000 instead of his super dope tricked out MK18 build. It's chonkiness ends up actually feeling really great and ergonomic. The only issue with it would be the same problem they had here. Trying to mount all the accessories in an ergonomic fashion. I wish I could've gotten one, but now they're so damn expensive.
I shot a full auto f2000 years ago, and absolutely loved it. I've wanted one ever since, but couldn't justify the cost for my income years ago. Kicking myself in the ass now, because they hardly ever pop up for sale and when they do people want absolute top dollar 😢
As a lefty bullpup enthusiast I am extremely jealous. Didn’t buy into it early cuz I felt like the ejection mechanism was a gimmick that’ll cause frustrating failures after a few years of ownership. But over the years I’ve never heard anything about it that would make it seem worse than your average AR platform. Shoulda trusted FN quality control. Sucks that the collectors tax puts it outta reach for any practical value, way further than it already was to begin with.
The Primary Arms Microprism (1x, 3x, or 5x) would work great on a bullpup. Super compactness in a red dot footprint, but still has the option for decent magnification. I love them on ARs for being lightweight and compact, plus a really cool usable illuminated reticle
I have a bunch of different Bullpups other than an X95 and Hellion. The AUG so far is my favorite but it really does require the aftermarket parts. I think If I had to choose one in a zombie apocalypse with a military giggle switched equipped, I would prefer an X95 SBR. My MDRX in 308 had nothing but problems after 200 rounds and is a PITA to clear. Most of the design issues were fixed in January though. I just haven't had a lot of time with it after I got it back from warranty. The AUG has been 100% reliable when using the correct gas settings and easy to clear when I accidentally leave the gas setting set to suppressor and shoot without a can. Biggest problems I have with bullpups are the rear CG makes them harder to stabilize for long shots and the magazine sits in the work space where a chest rig or tactical belly would be
If I had to choose a bullpup for a SHTF situation. It would be the X95 or AUG. Because, both are war time proven and reliable. I have both bullpups and would lean to the X95. Just because I'm more familiar with the X95 and personally gyrate towards it. I would highly consider a bullpup to an AR...considering the circumstance.
I went thru a bullpup phase but realized I didn't like the port pop next to my ear/face, and feel I have some hearing loss in my ear because of it. Also muscle memory is a thing, so mag changes need to be practiced more than I wanted to devote to it.
I own a tavor, and have built two SKS bull pups, and an AK bullpup. I also have an AUG and the MDR. I really enjoy the bull pups design and understand its flaws. I also have plenty of conventional rifles too. Just a tool, but honestly ergonomics and trigger are a HUGE deal with bull pups, the SAR I own after putting an aftermarket trigger in it is by far my go-to rifle, and when compared with say the cumbersome nature of the soviet bull pups its night and day. I feel peoples experiences with pups and how they view them is often shaded by these cheaper or poorly set up guns that are built to look cool and not really function smoothly, as you guys said covered in lights, lasers and the wrong optics and unbalanced. You can have all these things, but it takes additional thought on placement, and you got to get out and shoot to know the differences.
The RDB was about to become my replacement for my AR. I could fit my LPVO, IR light/designator on it and it was amazing suppressed. Then one day it just stopped stabilizing ammunition and would key hole. It made me think about sustainability of an RDB or any bullpup really. when I wear out an AR barrel to 3+ moa I would replace it or when a bolt head would break I would replace it. I have a box with an identical spare barrel, bolt, and other parts ready to go when the maintenance needs done Parts breakage is a reality of any firearm that is being used. I came to realize when a part on my bullpup needed replaced due to breakage or wear I was shit out of luck. I would have to keep a second new rifle since the first was living on borrowed time. This is what killed the bullpup for me. Very few people will ever shoot enough to start experiencing parts breakages so the market does not account for this. The builders market for the AR15 is the only reason it has the ability for user repair and sustainment. Any firearm that you can not amass spare parts for is simply a no-go in my book no matter what other capabilities it brings to the table.
@@Hoplopfheil I definitely think it’s just a one off lemon, I’ve had one other person DM me with the same problem but that’s it. That’s not to say I Haven’t had the same problem with AR barrels. I bought some random 13.7” and it shot 8 moa with 77grs but all I have to do is chuck it and buy a BA Hanson and it’s fixed. I honestly just can’t be bothered to FFL transfer my RDB back to keltech. Of all the bullpups out there it is still my favorite though. It’s the only one that isn’t taller than the sears tower or have a LOP for Yao Ming.
Military bullpups like the VHS-2 can easily go over 50,000 rounds. Unless you are in a war fighting every day for 5 years straight, I doubt you will ever need to use a spare part.
Same experience as you two. Most people that I know that go this route will tell you how great it all is on paper and then they use them. They never really put the time in on an AR so they don't have anything to compare it to. Prior to the new technologies in ammo, I could see some of the arguments. I would prefer an SBR always. Bullpups seem to me to be an almost mandatory stop on the long gun journey, but there is a reason when you ask someone very knowledgeable in firearms, that they will generally recommend you pass.
I work in the maritime industry. And we get private military security teams who are ex US Navy Seals. I asked them why the US doesn’t use bullpups. And he told me, it’s an issue with reloading quickly, without needing to take your eyes off down range. With the magazine so far back it’s much more difficult to load without looking at it. Meanwhile on a regular rifle, the magazine is forward enough that it is in your field of vision when you are keeping your eyes down range. Plus sometimes you’d have to move the rifle or take your finger off the trigger to reload them. This is sacrificing seconds in a crucial reload, just to have a lighter rifle. And that’s not going to work for professional military. You’re not always going to have cover to duck behind and take your eyes of down range, and your finger off the trigger to reload. I get real combat isn’t like Call of Duty. But the faster reload will save your life. A lighter rifle won’t save your life. Plus they prefer the more customizable rails of a regular rifle. And these people are the top % of operators. The benefit of a shorter barrel and lighter rifle really doesn’t benefit theme. They’d rather the larger rifle with more rail space. They aren’t struggling handling a full sized AR when they’re carrying 100 pounds of gear through mountains.
I love bullpups, esthetically, manual of arms. But then again, I also like candy corn so maybe there is a thing. Also, I would love to see what yalls reactions are to the Reap Weaponries Scy or the A3 TRIAD.
The MDRX in 5.56 feels more tame than an AR, I think that can be attributed to it being built to accommodate .308-sized cartridges. I've definitely noticed what you're taking about when shooting a friend's X95
@@gifthorse3675other guns aren't, by nature, designed to have the chamber directly under your face. A blowout on an AR might cost you some fingers if it goes pear shaped. Blowout on a bullpup is gonna hurt a lot worse
@@TheHouseAlwaysWins-xs8zd do your shtf preparations assume everything will go perfectly all the time forever? Everyone's human, and squibs tend to happen if you don't maintain your equipment well enough
I selected the AUG as my home defense rifle and works perfect. I have a shake awake Dot and a streamlight and that’s really all I need. I will be able to add an aiming laser in front of the dot easily in the future. I don’t have an issue racking the charging handle because I put hi adhesive vinyl black tape over the rail and it works perfectly. When the laser goes on, I may decide to get a different charging handle but beyond that I don’t see any other need to upgrade it beyond 24” HBAR for larping
@@kanaka118446 Sure no reason for it when one can easily use the AUG one handed and from the hip if need be. Having a free hand in a home def. scenario to grab someone's hand makes no sense at all.
3:30 The on screen text says, "Desert Tech MRDX." Just to avoid any confusion, there's a typo there; the R and the D are swapped. It's the "Desert Tech M D R X." Locally (here in Utah where they're made), we call them the "Mormon Super Soaker."
I generally agree the number one reason we don’t see more bullpups is price. I have a Tavor. I consider it my “main” rifle. However, I’m not trying to bolt tons of things to it. It has a suppressor, white light, and LPVO. Not even attempting night vision toys. I do think Brass Facts is on to something though, and I have been Eotech + magnifier curious for it.
I like my x95 and I can appreciate its utility for extremely tight environments but it’s not my first choice for an overall rifle. I have mine set up with a t2 + magnifier and an og modbutton + modlite. I ended up changing my handguard and putting the modbutton on the only top slot of the optimus handguard so I would have comfortable placement of the light. For close quarters it’s extremely practical, but beyond like 50-100 yards I still prefer a normal rifle setup.
Honestly had a great time with my RDB, I regret selling it. I ran my scout light inboard on the side, and the DBAL-A2 on top with an LPVO. Simple tape switch for the action, it was my preferred night-rifle since it balanced really well with a suppressor and all the crap; so it was interesting to hear you werent able to set it up for NV use.
What a beautiful back drop to shoot in. Every time I watch a video show casing the American countryside, I am so thankful we have such a variety of terrain, weather, and wildlife to live in. Not at all saying you never need to see the world but there is a lot to see and explore here.
The biggest advantage for the bullpup is in the 10-12" barrel variety, where you can have a very compact gun that still has decent ballistics and in the very long 20-26" barrels where you can get the best ballistics and the gun is still fairly compact and maneuverable. I love my MDRX but I think I would love it more in a .300blk Micron or a 26" 6.5 Creed with an appropriately long handguard.
@@RubelessThey been around a long time because they’re older creations. The “best” use them (discounting Croatians, French, Australians, and Austrians) because the US is pretty much responsible for the worlds military and they use the AR platform since it’s homemade. Because of that, it is easier to stick to ARs and make others adapt to it as well.
Can't help but think the trouble with accessories is a problem with the accessories market being tailored to regular rifles, not something inherent to bullpups. In an alternate reality where bullpups are dominant, we'd probably have the same complaints about how stuff fits weird on regular rifles. The disparity in development time and resources specifically directed at each rifle format is unfathomably large.
Bruh, think about it: where and how would you mount lights or lasers on a bullpup considering the way they're designed? You can make a tailor made mount/ design but then you're making a suboptimal design that's being built around an awkward rifle.
Except the issue is lack of space on the bullpups to mount stuff due to moveing so much if the internals back behind the hand. Anything designed for mounting on a bullpup is going to mount fine on a regular rifle.
@@andreivaldez2929 ...You've entirely missed my point, then almost said it right back at me. Yes, I was talking about making tailor made, entirely different formfactors of the things we're used to. If those existed, they would fit terribly on normal rifles. I don't care, just found it an interesting hypothetical imagining a different world with different problems.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 You're still thinking about things in the exact same formfactor. Lights and lasers can be any shape we want, and we could make them extremely differently to fit in less space lengthwise, and simultaneously make them awkward/sub-optimal to fit on a regular rifle. Maybe things would be integrated into the handguard more, and we wouldn't even have such a wildly diverse accessory market. Modularity may never have evolved the same way without the combination of the AR platform and the picatinny rail being invented, integrated optics etc may have been the direction instead; see G36, P90, AUG, OICW, G11. Pointless hypotheticals require some imagination. There are ways to solve the problem of limited space, we just haven't bothered as there is no need to.
It's interesting that you both took these compact platforms out into a huge wide open range. The whole point of them is that they are short but with the same ballistics as full size rifle. I'd try using them out of cars or in other compact places like a building. Also, I think a vertical fore-grip would solve your knuckle busting issues, but then again I don't think you need to mount your rifle when shooting bullpups because there is so much weight at the back of the gun you can free shoot just fine.
Exactly. They're complaining about the length of the optic taking up too much rail space because the gun is too short. You're using the wrong tool for the job, of course it's not functioning like the right tool!
![The Kel-Tec RDB in [Current Year]](/img/n.gif)
The brace ban was perpetuated by big bullpup to boost sales. Also, id have liked to see more data at distance and groups.
big bullpup, lmao!
@@Riorozeni don't hear about any sub-MOA bullpups but I do see a lot of quality ARs 🙄
@@SuspiciousGanymede There is no theoretical reason why a bullpup should be less accurate.
@@fdr3898@Riorozen true or false? You're full of excuses.
@@SuspiciousGanymedeWalther WA 2000
you fail to account for the fact that the halo battle rifle is a bullpup which means that bullpups are better than everything else.
Not a small number of People i’ve met have picked bullpups based on halo vs die hard.
Well that settles it
Lol
Did u really enjoy that rifle though? Hand gun is just savage.
I would be lying if I said I didn’t choose bullpups also because they’re unique and sexy looking
The lack of rail and optics space and difficulty of stabilizing off of rocks would be solved by a 20" barrel. You'd get the ballistics of a 20" with the OAL of what, a 12.5"? 14.7? Best of both worlds honestly.
The reason Bullpups suck is that the market views them as a solution to the question "how short can we make a 16" rifle?" When it should be viewed as as an answer to "how can we get extra performance without the gun becoming impractical?"
100% agree. I actually reccomend getting the 18" barrel X95 over the 16" because the longer barrel lets you replace that brick of a rubber buttpad with a flat plate. If you're forced to have length and weight because of OAL requirements, you might as well put it into the barrel.
I have an 18" X95 and it's been great so far. More reliable than the AR platform. And I'm an 18C combat vet from OIF and OEF. For precise shooting I'll take my AR. But reliability the X95 is better.
The other reason people don't like bullpups is because they mostly use their rifles outdoors, where shortening the weapon has much less benefit, and actually even some drawbacks.
A bullpup design is much more practical for indoor use. Where longer rifles are cumbersome, and a longer sight radius has no benefit.
Ex Australian Army here. I carried a Steyr for roughly 15 years and 4 deployments. Few points from my experience are that 1. Way less modular. And I’m not just talking retail space for attachments. The stock is fixed. There’s no accounting for body armour or the size of the shooter with an adjustable stock like an m4/ar platform. 2. It’s heavier - the base weight was about 4kg (almost 9 pounds). Before attachments. (What’s an M4 like 6 pounds?). It’s pretty well balanced - unlike the SA80. That thing had a lot of junk the in trunk. 3. It’s not especially reliable firing in unorthodox positions - Australian Army trains in “combat shooting” which looks a lot like competition shooting from barricades and unorthodox positions like canting the rifle to shoot through keyholes and under cars etc. we tended to experience ALOT of stoppages from these positions. Double feeds etc 4. Reload drills etc were slower and clunkier. This was due to a number of factors such as having to utilise the cocking handle (no bolt release button on the steyr. There was one added to the EF88 which is the upgraded Australian Variant). the magazine being below your eye-line and having to raise it up to your “workspace”. Obviously this comes down to doing repetitions to bring this time down but it always felt a lot faster and smoother on the M4. 5. The trigger SUCKS! It’s a really fat and heavy trigger. I’m assuming due to being an original Austrian design this was for cold mountainous terrain in mind where you will be wearing heavy gloves and drinking schnapps in your ration pack but yeah always hated the trigger. 5. Not sure if this was ever fact checked but we were always told that the Australian Army was paying a lot more for steyrs than what was offered to buy m4s off the US. The issue was we weren’t granted to buy licence to manufacture the bolt locally which steyr was offering. I guess they figured at the time they could make money back selling our steyr version to other countries. 6. Our SF don’t want a bar of them. In 1992/1993 when they came into service our standard rifle was the SLR (basically an FAL) and our SASR and latter the Commandos tried the steyr and were like “yeah, nah”. New Zealand too used to have the steyrs and have since got rid of them. Australian Army is now talking about getting SIG ARs (in 300 blackout) - I believe just as PDW’s for tankies and CAV but it may lead to replacing the Steyrs completely. (Which wouldn’t at all be a complete waste of hundreds of millions of dollars of tax payers money spent on developing a modernised AUG just to scrap it less than 10 years later 🥴).
To my mind, it's a persistent problem with design goals. Most of the issues are merely a side effect of a fixation on offering 16" barrels for minimum length despite the need to hit a minimum overall length. If a manufacturer would just default to a 20" barrel and full length rail for that, you'd address rail space, optic clearance and too-much-ass problems. Just stop trying to get as short as possible over minimum overall length.
At the very least, 20" barrel versions should be an option in addition to 16". Makes much more sense than going for an even shorter version of the MDR that you have to SBR because you really need an 11.5" barrel in something that's already short as possible. 🙄
Crazy that with so many designs no one can quite put it all together perfectly.
@arsenal_616 Yeah, the appeal of bulllpups is full rifle ballistics in carbine lengths. Dropping down to like an 11.5 is ridiculous.
AFAIK the keltec comes in a 20” configuration.
You can get the tavor with the 18 inch barrel and buy the "thin" butt pad
Its unreal how little footage there is of guntubers using bullpups with slings. I genuinely had to google to see if it was possible years ago. So, I'm happy to see you two give bullpups some serious use.
Also, I'll remember to wear the cool guy ballistic knuckle gloves if I ever get a bullpup.
There are bullpups with handguards over the pistol grip, some by factory, others by mods. Tavor 7 is one example.
P90.
i rmb using a sar21 during my ns days. During a route march/ rucking, my sling broke, the one near the front post (we got shitty used slings as we were conscripts) it was torturous carrying until we reach a rest point, so that i could electrical tape it up.
@@youknowit5milor even better, aug.
The Tavor SAR has built-in QD points
I've noticed that the bullpup designs tend to suit infantry roles that don't expect accessories galore. More specialized units will likely be trained in a smaller circle that revolves around the classic platform. Most (American) home defense and LARP setups gravitate toward "specialized unit" type setups. As a result, not many people or companies have really tried solving these problems on bullpup platforms because there's no demand for it. But given enough R&D and popularity, bullpups could come around.
Wrong, they are crap.
@@Rubeless Thank you for that astute insight…
Most civilians aren't driving up to a place in full battle transitioning from CQC to roof top sniping so the pros of a bullpup don't really apply to them. ARs are really good at specific tasks but the bullpup is a better all arounder, as far as some militaries are concerned. Talking about laser night vision for civilians is like complaining the street outside your home has too much traffic and potholes for drag racing. Few people are trying to do it, and those who do kind of look stupid. Also, night vision and lasers is so 2000's, get an infrared scope if you want to be tactical. Lasers just show everyone where you are these days, it's old tech.
As a basic infantryman we still had a good amount of stuff on our rifles
Yup. If you look at us Brits, even the L85A3 is limited to a grip,sling and Elcan. That’s it. Some use a laser or light mounted on the 3 o’clock but most don’t and there aren’t any suppressors. Even the new Ranger regiment has gone for a new AR with all the bells and whistles.
"200$ for a fucking stamp, what are they rare?" So fuckin funny hahahaha
Simple Racketeering/Extortion from a corrupt/traitorous Govt. and 'Crew' of Mobsters.
Funny how things are legal when the atf gets their cut. These things are so dangerous but for $200, they're not a problem anymore.
@@davidpignatore6532 When the stamps were enacted they were effectively a ban - $200 in 1934 was (with a silly calculator) equivalent to $4687 today.
@@rifleslol i didn't know that. Crazy. What a business they got going.
@@rifleslolyeah that is the one “silver lining” to the NFA. At least the cost of the stamp hasn’t adjusted to the times
Another curveball is shotgun bullpups. Picked up 1 last year and it quickly became my truck gun. Ton of power for its size excellent for small storage locations and manueving, plus it eliminates a lot of your long range problems because it’s a 100 yard gun which is more than adequate for domestic non wartime defense
I got the tristar 12gauge and its hella fun. Live on 10 acres in AZ and I see my share of unwanted critters. Useful tool, never lets me down. Kinda heavy, though.
Yeah I love my BP 12g
@@keither85They're so funky and fun
Tokarev makes some
@@tonyrichmond9428 i picked up a Tokarev TBP-12 late last year and ive loved it, sadly haven't been able to shoot it in about a year as well cause i injured my shoulders, but for the time i was able to shoot it, my god was it fun, and quite good out of the box. the only thing i did was when i got home i did a teardown and reoil everything, then pull out one of the trigger springs (there's 2) and file down the trigger to take it from a some 20+ pound pull to somewhere closer to a 5-10
That anecdotal hypothetical of a Palmetto State Armory Bullpup is incredibly interesting for entry level buyers, especially after the release and success of their JAKL line. Fantastic vid, thanks for the content and the experienced, nuanced takes. Ya'll do great, looking forward to more.
I have an SKS bullpup and I like it. I didn’t gain much weight reduction but it is definitely more maneuverable and having a rail for optics is a real game changer.
Bullpup reloading is awkward and unnatural, and you have to do it blind. You cannot visually check if you seated a mag properly easily.
@@mmgross144look how they massacred my boy
Just turn the JAKL upper into a bullpup. I've said this to Foxtrot Mike also but they don't want to make money, why we also don't have Mike 15 in 300bo yet.
@@brokeandtired It's really not awkward at all.
If they came out with a PTR 91 in a bullpup configuration Hop would be all over it.
I can only imagine the ungodly lack of rail space from being a short bullpup and from not having a top rail because G3 charging tube
I can only imagine the concussion youd get from having a G3 chamber/ejection port right next to your head and ears. thing would probably rattle your teeth loose.
@@iansanchez331 Not a hard problem to solve.
Use a left-handed charging tube, roll it over so the channel is on the left side again.
The handle will lock in a downward position rather than upward, and you can weld the rail segment along the length of the charging tube.
@@009013M3 sounds like a lot of unnecessary work when I can just get something better
It really isn't a hard problem to solve: *Don't* get a bullpup.
French soldier here, i was issued famas and HK416. Always prefered the famas. It feels lighter and handier than the HK.
Moreover, on the famas you can turn all the ergonomic from rightie to leftie in 2 like 2 min max without any tool. Ergonomics are great.
The rifle is really accurate. The trigger is really good for a bullpup. Changing mag is slower but you can be fast with training. Firing rate is greate too.
The only downsize is that you have to clean it more often with rigor because it is a durt/sand/water magnet.
And on the civilian sides of things well, it is a really pricy gun for being really rare.
Ouais, tous les FAMAS sont soit neutralisés soit partent en destruction malheureusement une fois hors circuit...
@@erik_the_meh We don't need a book, we have a huge 50m arc of triumph with 96 french victories and 166 name of french war heroes inscribed in the rock.
@@erik_the_meh When you 've never heard of a Napoleon, Charlemagne (or shall we name him belgian) and Joan of Arc , you're pretty ignorant.
Aparently France won the most wars and battles of countries.
But Hollywood/UK doesn't make many movies on french soldiers, in english. So you won't know..
@@allws9683 Being from the US, I find other Americans' belief in the "French cowardice" stereotype incomprehensible. As if centuries of French warfare history weren't enough, I can think of three letters that (one would think) should put that stereotype to bed: *WWI.*
@@Vindsvelle "if you don't go to Irag with us, you're pussies"
A good list of pros and cons. This style of gun may or may not be inferior to more traditional designs but the takeaway here is to train, train, train and be familiar with every nut, bolt and screw of your weapon no matter what it is.
Best comment and advice that will save your life.
They suck for rifle bayonet fighting. Same goes for rifles with junk all over the fore grips. Being able to fight with the rifle is extremely valuable. Not just when you're completely out of ammo. Getting engaged in the middle of a magazine change. Running into the enemy where you can't get the barrel pointed at them, a stick with a bayonet or a quick buttstroke can give you enough space to pull the trigger on them or beat them to expiration without having to go mano a mano. When assaulting through objectives, you will literally run right into the enemy eventually. A bullpup isn't within a country mile of ergonomically made for rifle bayonet fighting that's been around since the first guns.
@@joesikkspac7904 Good point, very edgy (please accept the puns). However, I have not seen a single video on the various platforms on which I view pro-2A content that has ever talked about bayonet fighting (and I watch A LOT of 2A stuff across the interwebs); this honestly may be a great topic for you to make a video of your own and show us how bullpups and bayonets do not mix. Now, I'm not saying videos covering the advantages of bayonets don't exist, but I have not come across them. Garand Thumb may have one from years ago in keeping with the fun tongue-in-cheek style that characterizes that channel. One of the frustrating things for me with online 1st-person combat games is being knifed, but I digress; it's probably safe to say that for the purpose of home defense, which is why I'd arm myself with a bullpup, bayonets are going to be cumbersome no matter the weapon system and may even be problematic if you wind up in court for defending your home from an intruder by employing such an accessory (i.e. "Why did you shoot when you could have knifed, why did you knife when you could have shot..." etc). And, while I demand the Fundamental Freedom to access to every bit of hardware to defend myself from the various categories of would-be wrong-doers in my day-to-day, I think statistics show mag changes are quite rare in the kind of scuffles in which your average person finds him/her self. If you want to 'bring back' bayonets... well, you should make that video and post it! I'd watch!
@@joesikkspac7904the British army make it work just fine
@leonrussell9607 the British armed forces haven't made much of anything work for over 250 years. Argentina almost defeated them. There's not a good enough grip on the lower hand of bullpups. Nothing like the rock-solid and much more maneuverable grip of traditional rifle stocks. Rifle bayonet fighting is hard and jarring. It's not just poking holes in people. It's also a very neglected skill in modern western armies. I can't speak to the former Warsaw pact and other evil doers.
When the ATF was kind enough to let you keep your dog after the raid.
Took me way too long to notice it wasn’t real
In what condition?
@@Kdoghalo - It is very real with good training, patience, especially if you have military training. It is, nevertheless, an adaptation process!
@@CL-DevineHonor You know that he was talking about the stuffed corgi on the back of the truck, right?
last time they took the dog of a gun owner, the gun owner was john wick
When bolting lights/lasers onto a bullpup, you might have to embrace pressure pads and get a bit creative with cable routing. The Issues you had with the RDB's charging handle getting in the way is also a problem I ran into on the original Tavor SAR. The more experience I got with that Tavor, the more I realized why the X95 made all the little design changes they did (such as the charging handle repositioned well away from the railed handguard!) They were definitely listening to soldier feedback when they made that thing. After that, making the switch to the X95 was a no brainer, I really enjoy it. (I also went the red dot/magnifier route)
My only complaint with my X95 is, no adjustable gas system
I see some of that in the X95 but overall I still feel like the SAR is a better built machine for some reason. Like, all the X95 changes seem to be trying to make it more of an AR-15 than really anything essential design wise...
The farther forward charging handle on the SAR give you better control of the rifle if you ever have to lock the bolt back and the paddle release makes it so you never have to take your finger off the trigger while reloading if you don't want to. Granted, it's all an entirely different manual of arms and I get why people used to AR-15's view these as "flaws" initially cause I did too but I feel like that's the point, or else, why not just get an ar-15?
I do think that all the tavor models do much much better on rail space than almost any of the other bullpups too.
I went dot/magnifier as well in the end but had no problem fitting LPVO, Light, Laser, touchpads.
Granted I run it with a C-Grip with the control pads all on top rail and I get how a lot of people feel like its too beefy and want those over on the left side for the more traditional under-side grip but if you do it that way it solves a lot of the wire routing issues.
Never forget, on the SAR you could also always do like the IDF and route through the frame, under the barrel if needed to avoid the charging handle.
@@zezimadude13 The farther forward charging handle didn't just complicate cable management, but the longer cocking bar would flex and scrape against the gas block. The position also meant that the bar was at an off angle not in-line with the movement of the BCG. So while I liked that the charging handle was always there to "remind you" to use it, and the position theoretically gave you more leverage, you also absolutely needed that leverage because it was VERY stiff to manipulate. The spring clip on the handle was also the only part on my rifle to break in ~8000 rounds. The X95's redesign solves all these issues. Short bar doesn't flex, it's linear with the BCG movement, there's nothing to break, it's out of the way.
I also liked the SAR's grip and strip mag release, I found it intuitive. However, the X95 actually shortens the space between magwell and the pistol grip to shorten the length of pull to about M16A1 stock length with the flat buttplate. (I like this a lot) However, this would mean that the trigger mag release would get bumped, and probably pretty regularly. You can even see where they intended to put an SAR mag release on the X95 as a redundancy and decided against it, and opted for putting the backup mag release in the stock instead. Good trade in my opinion.
If you look at the X95's trigger guards, they actually have a channel for cable routing. Somewhere out there, there are grip panels with cutouts for pressure pads. It'd be cool if we got those one day.
He should have moved the charging handle to the other side.
Saw the vid title and thought, "Jarv probably has something to say about this"
Boom
Here you are lmao
Moral of the story: If you’re not planning on cosplaying as a SEAL, bullpups are just fine.
lol pretty much , and then Peruvian sf used p90s back in the day
Or a lefty. Bullpups suck for lefties usually
@@orthrus4490pretty sure you can get left handed variants of most designs
If it doesn't already have some Ambi ejection already set up
@@zjanez2868 you can, but they're typically pretty rare and much more expensive than their standard counterparts
Not for me. I don’t like the explosion of the rifle going off right next to my face. A catastrophic failure would leave me looking like two face…
I've really been enjoying my AUG. I have done some comps with it and there's nothing I really feel like I'm missing out on compared to a conventional rifle.
Try CQB where you have to switch shoulders to get a better shooting angle and still stay close behind cover
@@Jeremy-mu6cd A lot of people who did it for real didn't switch shoulders unless they had to watch a corner and knew they'd be sitting static for several minutes.
@@Jeremy-mu6cdYou do realize that, with a brass deflector, swapping shoulders is easier than an AR right? Instead of changing my hand position, I just put the stock on my left shoulder. My shooting hand and support hand stays in the same place and now I’m able to take shots on my week side.
If you want an idea about this, check out Corvus Defensio’s vid on their AUG upgrade package. Dude does a weak side transition and is able to return to a normal shooting stance with minimal effort.
Can you do a retention reload
Why won’t steyr give me a 20” 1:7” twist barrel? 😩
I always felt like bullpups made a lot of sense as a state military rifle. Para jumps, armored infantry, and a group of people who are learning to shoot on this rifle first and stick with just this platform for years.
And despite this bullpups are dying off in military service
Its probably because everything about their use and handling is so bad that no amount of training can make up for their shortcomings.
@@HedgehogBarriers what in particular jams? bullpups in general don't jam any more then any other layout of firearm. They're not great for a lot of reasons but 'they jam' isn't one of them.
bruh i can't clear a jam@@oxidedamage8837
Having tried both the British L85A1 and the Aussie's Styre Aug I can absolutely said I will take my issued M4. I have used my M4 in both Iraq and Afghanistan and hand down can say it is a far superior firearm.
My main problem with the Kel-Tec is that the polymer/plastic does not take hard use well. It will break, but probably wont leave the gun non-functional (ask me how I know). You are in luck with that broken butt, now you can buy one with a QD mount on it and more length of pull! Yeah its a pain that in order to clear jams (since you really can't look into the chamber) you have to unload, pop the rear takedown pin, and then clear the gun. Also I find it pretty wild Hop paid $200 for that handguard that only has a QD mount on it although I suppose it does get his thumb closer to light button. As others have done, I highly recommend the Lucky Irishman bolt release. Also blue loctite all those damn screws that hold the stock together.
I like everything about my Kel-Tec RDB except for the fact it’s a Kel-Tec. Every time I shoot it I half expect it to fly apart. I dread jams.
@@EricDaMAJ I’ve got three of them, the different versions, and literally the only jams I’ve ever got are just at the initial outset adjusting gas. But yeah, it is a pain when it happens.
Ikr, my aug is absolutely a TANK
You can access the chamber through the magwell. That said, I've never had a malfunction with mine that wasn't a result of working on dialing in the gas system.
Non-metal body have their obvious advantages such as cost and weight loss while the disadvantage is less durability. I'd like to think these points are pretty obvious for anyone buying a gun.
at 1:10 this guy really mounted a foot away from a hornets nest
It's worth it to mention that your issues of not enough rail estate are solved by just buying a 20" MDRX. It has a longer rail and superior ballistics.
Also, if you buy the Mantis bipod/handguard to go with it, it solves a lot of your issues of shooting comfortably from behind cover.
You're losing out on the small size and lower weight of a bullpup that way though.
@hazzardalsohazzard2624 the 20" model mdrx is the same length as a 14.5 AR.
Also, the MDRX is a heavy girl, as she is designed as a .308 bullpup. The good thing is that the weight is centered in the rear. By adding a 20 inch barrel you'll add a few ounces to the front, but it will still be quite manageable.
@@hazzardalsohazzard2624 you can't have your cake and eat it too. He should stop complaining then.
Dream setup, just extremely expensive
@@hazzardalsohazzard2624 A) Bullpups aren't lighter
B) small size? You're talking about, what, 3-4 inches in OAL?
Part of the difficulty is most people come up on traditional layout rifles and that transition can be difficult. I started on bullpups so the operation is a lot more intuitive and getting the most out of the system is “easier”
Nah. It's no coincidence that special operation forces from virtually every country will choose an M16/m4 style platform over the rifle their own military is armed with. The SAS was choosing the M16 in various configurations in the 80&90s rather that the SA80, Australians had the M16 from Vietnam along with the FAL yet the Australian SAS choose the M4/Hk416 over the Steyer Aug. French special forces are the same with the FAMAS. German special forces choose the HK416 OVER THE G36.
@@joelbilly1355There are still a lot of sf that use bullpups. The Israelis and the Indians to name a few
@Patrix299 true but my point is that when they are given the choice they choose an M4/m16 type.
@@joelbilly1355the fact that Germans chose the 416 probably shows it's more compatibility with other sf forces in other countries then "no bullpup"
@user-zx4vq4uk9c special forces are better being compatible with their own regular forces. Us special forces tried the SCAR for a while but came back to the m4. The German regular military want the hk416, the French regular military are getting it
Something i think the mp5 style manual bolt lock is more helpful for is one handed stoppage clearance. Guys occasionally get shot and many manufacturers noticed that guns like the tavor are really difficult or impossible to do this with.
Y'all did a good job with this video fr.
Yeah the Tavor bolt lock is not the easiest to set, but you can't set an AR one handed either. The Tavor is easier to rack with one hand than an AR would be, and much easier to shoulder and fire with one hand.
A possible advantage in a niche life-or-death situation, down one arm, doesn't usually drive gun design nor sells guns
@@TehButterflyEffect I just tested with a standard AR upper and charging handle and while it's busy, it's not challenging
That dog sure is chill.
Came for the KelTec jokes. Stayed for the dunking on unconstitutional absurdity that is the NFA.
One of my friend (he is a gunsmith) was making joke of the sub 2000 non stop... Until his fx9 explode 😅
Oh I came alright
I told an anti gunner that we shouldn’t be using AR15s when we should have the M4. Very angry little ompa loompa.
@@rustythefoxcoon5143Did you do an epic fortnite dance while he cried and shit his pants?
@@djshumoomoo4075💯💯💯
To me a bullpup in the prepared civilian context is most interesting when you can turn a gun that would normally be long and unweildy into something that can flex into a gpr role as needed.
For example a Bullpup SPR or Bullpup SAW/RPK/IAR allows you to get long barrels in a mid to heavy weight without it turning into a massive and heavy liability when you have to use it like a gpr because your squad consists of 2 people.
>2 people
I wish. I'm very certain I'm spending 95% of the apocalypse alone.
I'm off the same frame of mind for other reasons. After seeing Henry's breakdown of the rather large improvements in performance from the 20" barrel 556 I think that having 20" with a suppressor in the same size package as a regular 16" ar rig is far more interesting and would fix the rail real estate issues at the same time.
weight doesnt make anything a liability. even the m240 isnt too heavy to handle if you arent a little bitch
Any rifle even a 20" AR 15 can be a general purpose rifle. Any rifle that you can pick up point down range and and hit what you intend to hit can be a general purpose rifle.
>bullpup with a longer heavier barrel
No why would i make a 8/9 pound rifle even heavier? The general direction is to make loaded rifles lighter
>Bullpup a SAW and give it a longer heavier barrel
Double no SAW has a long heavy barrel and is already what 15-20 pounds? Why make it heavier? Why take away the ability the change out the barrel on a machine gun because its bullpupped? I mean your even taking away the ability to mount belt feeding by making it bullpup.
@@fearsomefoursome4 As much as I hate bullpups, your reply must raise the question; are you retarded?
It's all about training. After 10k rounds on the X95 non-stop, the AR-15 will also begin to feel awkward and cumbersome.
Weight is a concern with certain bullpup designs.
A short rail can pose challenges, but there's substantial aftermarket support available for platforms like the Tavor.
Reliability and resilience to dirt and sand are critical factors, especially for military applications of platforms like the Tavor.
It's a huge topic with many factors.
thinking the m16 was ever heavy is fucking hilarious. even the m240 and 249 arent too heavy to handle at all. for even women
@@nomercyinc6783Then why doesnt every rifle weigh what the M240 or 249 do.
@@nomercyinc6783completely different roles. Of course an lmg or gpmg will be heavier than an AR.
@@nomercyinc6783 No one said anything about its weight.
@@nomercyinc6783 It's a good thing that not what anybody said then
The Australians did a very extensive test a while back comparing the M16A2 to the AUG when they were planning to pick a new service rifle, and the AUG utterly smashed the M16 in every category. Granted, they weren’t testing for nuanced preferential things like trigger pull or ergonomics, but in terms of general durability/accuracy/reliability the AUG kicked ass.
It’s not enough to convince me to switch from conventional rifle designs, but it speaks very well for the AUG against other bullpups.
Barrel Options are unique in the AUG Concept.
"and the AUG utterly smashed the M16 in every category."
And yet they still issue M4s and HK416s to their special forces. I always say if you want to know what weapons and equipment a nation really thinks is the best, don't look at what they issue to their grunts, look at what they issue to their elite units.
@@Commodore22345 This test was done in the 80s. Rails and mission specific customization weren’t a factor, only performance.
Also I think looking at it as “what gear is the best” lacks a lot of nuance. Special Ops aren’t just given gucci gear for being special ops, they have an entirely different mission set. A grunt, for example isn’t going to typically care about something like how “jumpable” their plate carrier is.
@@Commodore22345 This test was done in the 80s. Rails and mission specific customization weren’t a factor, only performance.
Also I think looking at it as “what gear is the best” lacks a lot of nuance. Special Ops aren’t just given gucci gear for being special ops, they have an entirely different mission set. A grunt, for example isn’t going to typically care about something like how “jumpable” their plate carrier is.
@@arcblooper2699 Being able to manufacture under license was also a consideration at the time and it was not possible with alternatives on offer apart from the Steyr (Austeyr)
The MDRX is good because it makes me feel like an ODST with a battle rifle.
BrassFacts, try putting a BCM KAG on, it may end up at a wonky angle in the rear-most slot but it fits, trust me. It'll give you a more substantial piece to brace off of, and personally I think it is actually useful for my grip. I see no reason it wouldn't fit on the RDB, too.
Also, the FE rarely causes malfs for me if I'm not babying the charging handle. Babying the charging handle on the MDRX or the gas not being properly set is the root of like 95% of all the problems with the current-gen MDRX.
Desert Tech is owned by the Kingston Cult. Nick Young is a “Numbered Man”, and he has three wives. Of those, two of them are his cousins.
I don’t do business with companies owned by cults. No DT or Kahr for me. YMMV.
If you have the money, blklbl makes a rail with an integral bipod for the MDRX and many others, but then again, it’s an extra 500 bucks.
Check out "installation00" he is currently manufacturing an ODST armor. That works. Like 100% works not a cosplay.
You can get an alx or mantis for the mdr and if you have a longer barrel config you can even get a longer one which allows you to push things out even further too. The standard shorty may give some extra real estate too but the latter is 500+
@Blue-cq2hl I have the shorty ALX, it does give a bit more space.
Hi great videos! Excellent to hear the other side of the argument. I'm a fan of the Bullpup design. I'm a Brit, who has used the SA80 A1 (terrible), A2 and A3 vairents for 24 years. The redesign gets better every time. I have all so fired AR, AK and other weird and wonderful European platforms. Looking at your rifle choice, the ergonomics of your rifles could be improved. Eg... During a stoppage, I would tilt the SA80 to the left cock back the bolt with my left hand and then engage the hold open device with my left thumb, enabling me to keep my right hand on the pistol grip and gain a full view into the breach to assess the rifle state. (It's the little things). Initially we had the same problem with mounting sites for accessories. However, we were issued a simple replacement handguard that gave us a significant amount of mounting options for the A2 upgrade. During tours of Iraq and Afghanistan I was able to mount scopes like the SUSAT or ACOG with a laser/light module (LLM) The pressure switch was mounted on a drop down handle that also housed a bipod. With the 20inch barrel, the accuracy was phenomenal. With an issued drop down bipod and on your belly, you could reach out to 5/600 meters. You were really at the limit of your x4 optics at range and I'm not sure about the terminal ballistics, but you covered that in the video lol. I can't speak for all, but personally, if I could only take one rifle into battle, I would lug around an accessoriesed SA80 A3. Good luck with your new purchases, Fantastic videos!
Best regards
Ex Brit mil here mate - I too deployed with the A2 and A3 and they were fine I thought. Also dicked around with some of the other weapon systems issued for certain tasks (eg DMR) and they too did the trick. The evolution in realistic training was what gave me incremental advantages on deployment, not the lump of metal in my hands.
SLR then SA80 vet here. I've never subscribed to many of the criticisms levelled at bullpups. My issues were confined to the build quality of the L85 platform, and led me to the idea that bullpups are a great concept that have just never been done right. Cheers all.
Only thing I didn’t like about the SA80 was the weight of the damn thing. 😂
Yeah but I found it better balanced if you had to have the UGL compared to the AR with the UGL. @@zedarkenigma
The best thing about the SA80 is the perfect aesthetic for the royal guards :-)
I played with an FS2000 ( only 500 rounds) and actually really enjoyed the boat. Admittedly very limited in scope , flat range shooting , but it was enough that I'd consider buying one.
I think redesigning magazines might help with bullpups over all , as I feel like we're trying to shoe horn something into a system that is causing the discomfort.
Not sure what the answer is, but I suspect its something akin to the p90 magazine.
I have a Tuna too, I love the thing. It's like hugging a big plastic puppy. And the front ejection is brilliant.
I dont do guns but i totally see how having p90 mag layout solves everything.
"$200 for a stamp?" - George Washington probably, idk. I'm Canadian my US history comes from Mel Gibson and Lin Manual Miranda.
Most Americans knowledge of history comes from much the same places!
Just bought an Aug, and exploring the aftermarket. Most (if not all) of your issues with rail space, night vision etc. can be addressed. Extended top rails and hand guards that don’t compromise the gun can be had. The only real issue is that they are not cheap. Edit: I found the choice of the MDRX a little puzzling because it is BY FAR the most expensive bullpup that I am aware of. It is close to a grand more than the Aug or X95, and the Hellion is probably 5 or 6 hundred bucks cheaper as well. So far, I really dig the Aug.
They mention all of this in the video
@@IanRoach17 They did not talk about the specifics of what can be done with the Aug. I was surprised at the extent to which the perceived shortcomings of the Aug can be addressed.
Where are you getting those prices from lol. The MDRx is definitely the most expensive bullpup, but the most expensive by a grand?
@@mandough First, I said “close to” a grand. Second I was recalling off the top of my head the bottom line number from the last time I priced one, which was $2500. Turns out that was for the forward eject version (which is the only one I would have any interest in), the side eject is $250 cheaper. I paid $1500 for the Aug, and I think the X95 can be had for 1 or 2 hundred more. That’s where I get “close to” a grand.
@@jayjohnson3732 PSA recently had AUGs for $1100. I probably should have bought one.
I would love to see you do a video for a tavor and an AUG now. I think you did a great comparison for civilian style bullpups, and would like to see your options on military style ones.
Yes. The military bullpups deserve a comparison.
If you’re interested in anecdotal evidence I used an f88 when I was in the navy
I thought it was alright, I hit 42/45 at 200m in different positions during qualification. It was easy to strip down and clean, the controls were intuitive
I didn’t use them much though and I heard various second hand negative stories from guys that used them regularly about their reliability but never from someone firsthand
Our sf guys like the sas and clearance divers use m4’s but I don’t know if that was because they were a better platform or because they could accept various accessories. The new model has been modified with various rails to accept them too so maybe that was the issue
I just picked up a tavor sar 7 and an x95 and I’m sure these weapons kick my butt but I’d love to see this crew talk about them
Complains that the Aug needs too many parts swapped, but one aftermarket rail would have given you light and laser room meanwhile the copetek didn't even get a laser
But the aug is also 700 dollars more and an aftermarket rail would put it at like 2k. (Also bad trigger)
Or just buy a quality AR for that much less and have no issues with rail space period
@@jamesbingus7232estrogenic rifle
Unelss it's a carbine gas system in which case it has the exact same rail space issues.@@jamesbingus7232
@@CatholicKitTrigger isn’t bad unless you’re a trigger snob. They’re perfectly serviceable.
I enjoy my Steyr AUG product. I dont have NODs or a supressor so I essentially run it slick with the factory Zeiss 1.5x donut scope and it actually makes a very handy package for riding around on a golf cart and vaporizing hogs and coyotes.
Great deep subject, there is a reason why you only see certain rifles being used in competitive shooting. Also Minus 5 points for mortaring rifle with mag still in, that never works.
I love my Tavor. Hands down my favourite rifle. Never really took to the AR platform, long before the AR became prohibited in Canada and even after having owned several. If I had to pick a gripe, it would be the 2 mentioned. Weight and cost. Over the years I’ve tried pretty much every rifle that has come out and I just keep going back to my trusty Hebrew Space Gat.
My buddy in the IDF despises the tavor, says its super awkward and not as accurate as the AR he was issued for a short time. He did say room clearing was great with the x95 though, but he ended up getting issued the MAG when he finished combat training which he wanted less than the tavor
I wondered if we were gonna get comments about the Canadian market allowing a LOT more bullpups than traditional rifles in the UA-cam shooter zeitgeist
What do you think the difference in recoils is over the AR? I’ve heard the bullpups have more recoil. Your thoughts?
@@pauldavis9387 I'd say the recoil hits differently, but it comes down to how you handle your rifle. I've shot the Famas for 10 years now and we are currently switching to the HK. I find AR styles way more heavier on the front and I feel it helps a little with recoil at the price of a loss of handling, because the weight is farther from your body (lever effect and all that). On the other hand I can really "hug" my Famas and it doesn't really move either with a good grip. You can hit at 200 yards standing up and 400 lying down with iron sights pretty easily.
I don't really find all of their complaints relative to ergonomics (except the rails) relevant because I trained with it and I'm used to it. I have no problems reloading, clearing malfunctions or handling in it general. Ejection port is on the right (and is ambidextrous) so no problems with casings either.
Because of all that I kinda don't want to switch to the HK. My major gripe with it: the ambidextrous mag release. That freaking button hitting your mag pouch and dropping your mag on the ground while patrolling drives me nuts. I'm right handed, I want my mag release near my thumbs but it causes issues with my plate carrier. (I know it's fixable but if you know how army procurement works...).
Here's my thoughts !
Hebrew Space Gat. Fukring hi lar e us.
As a bullpup fanboy, I can appreciate your takes on them. As a smaller guy my experience is the size/weight distribution/ergos work better for me than AR's. I've owned both types of rifles and the bullpups have just been a consistently more pleasant experience for me to use. Also like you said, I don't have to deal with paperwork for the size and don't have the finances to drop on lasers lol. That's just me though.
I’m sure there is a group therapy program for you.
shut yo goofy ass up harold let the boy cook. he is on the money - weapons platforms are tools ofc. fit the tool to achieve performance on task using a person. @@Rubeless
Exactly what I would expect a self proclaimed "Bullpup Fanboy" to look like.
If you dont use an AR a bunch, and dont have to overcome that muscle memory, i think the bullpup works just fine.
My muscle memory is loading a 12ga pump, or top loading an Sks so ide love to try out a bullpup
@@Rubeless As long as they don't try to talk me out of alcoholism.
had a problem with my rdb-s where it would become a run away. sent it back to keltec they did a great job fixing it and even polished everything, paid shipping both ways and it took like 2 weeks. so their customer service is top notch in my experience
The issue is manual of arms. ARs are ubiquitous in the US; like the AK, a Glock, Toyota Camry, F150: everyone knows how to use them easily and may have had 1 or more in the past. For each new platform: there's training which costs money, plus parts for maintenance and upgrades. It's easy to find parts for ARs and if you've trained with one; you've just about trained with them all.
Assuming it's only training: why aren't they being used in matches then? Shorter OAL, easier to point: sounds like they should be dominating ARs or AKs in matches.
@@andreivaldez2929 because in matches you care about speed. AR triggers can be faster and reloads also faster. Matches don't have the same requirements as militaries though, which is why some bullpups have prolific military use. Just depends on what you are going for.
That’s the thing. ARs are boring and generic. Bullpups are unique, innovative, and have some quirky advantages. They make great collector pieces while also having real militaristic use as well. Great balance, and usually come as a complete packageS
That argument applies to countries with Bullpups and different vehicles. I was trained on a Bullpup L85A2, can use any other bullpup - then I went to a unit and we all had Colt Commando's - I then got muscle memory for both styles. I found bullpup far better as a patrol weapon, but bizzarely the Colts were easier on Boarding Operations.
Why some bullpups had* prolific military service…
I’ve owned a myriad of different rifles and I always loved my Aug. It is probably the most fun gun I’ve ever run in a competition and exceptional for barricade work. It groups well at distance and accuracy isn’t an issue. It’s extremely easy to fire and operate one handed and can be done so accurately. I think the Aug really has a strong argument in its defense as being a do it all platform, especially when you introduce urban ops or mobility. You definitely sacrifice a little bit of ergonomics of running peripherals at times (unless you buy a handguard or wait for ARID to drop their top rail) but you definitely gain the ability to move through and over difficult terrain such as dense veg, interior structures, vehicles, etc while maximizing 556 velocity and cavitation. It just depends on what you’re looking for. There are things it does better than an AR pattern and things it does significantly worse chiefly being modularity, precision rifle shooting, peripherals such as clip ons, and parts can be tough to find IE suppressor gas plugs and trigger pack sears etc.
Doesn’t the trigger suck?
Oh wow, someone that actually has some experience and informed opinions.
@@JM-cf9xy I love that comment! It's so common in the US. "But the triggers suck!" As if the person saying it is a competition shooter or the 1 in 10,000 shooter that *needs* a precision trigger. It's as delusional as the oh-so-common idea in the US that "I need to own a battle rifle in case the gubmint attacks me!"
No, the trigger is just fine for the 99.9% of shooters in the US that only own a gun in order to fullfill their fantasy of being "independent" or "free". If you're only ever shooting on a range or the like then the trigger is fine, just as it's perfectly fine for the 1.5 to 2 million military users of the AUG (or derivatives) around the world. Delusions about what people need is the bigger problem for non-military uers, especially in the US.
I mean if the trigger is bad enough to throw off your aim it’s going to be a problem @@iatsd
@@JM-cf9xy Very true. But if you think the trigger *is* that bad then you've chosen (hello, Tavor!) a truly awful weapon, have done something truly awful to the trigger system, or simply don't know how to shoot. In the case of th AUG, it's not that bad. It's perfectly serviable for a service weapon, which is what it was designed as.
lmao I loved the homer Simpson-esque "ow"....[[shoots again]]...."ow".....[[shoots again]]...."ow"......
I don't know how I missed Hop having his own channel, but yay! As far as bullpups go, I would say forward or downward ejecting is a must, and that needs to be made more reliable for forward for sure. I would also suggest one of those AR conversion kits that allows you to accept P90 mags, but that's just for fun. If we could see a bullpup that had reliable forward ejection and took P90 mags while actually looking like a rifle, then I'd say we'd have a winner. The P90 is cool, but a long barrel looks dopey and a short barrel means extra scrutiny, at least if you're public facing.
This was a great video analyzing the strengths and weaknesses of the platform, concept and execution of some lesser talked about platforms, awesome!
It's a bit of a shame that you didn't get an AUG or X95 for this video, but the AUG certainly needs some parts to be replaced like the ARID rail to allow a lot of space on the top, the clawgear handguard to allow for modern grips and more mounting, and the ARID trigger to wildly improve the feel and weight of the trigger.
The Manticore rail solves the top rail and the haundguard with one piece. Not sure why it doesn’t get more attention.
Has Brass Facts ever considered picking up the 20" barrel + compatible handguard? Someone here mentioned it, but it seems like some of his problems could just be fixed by slightly lengthening the package.
Though it would undercut the advantage of the bullpup concept, but if you want a potentially better NVG experience, it's a thought.
Also, how did you guys find clearing malfunctions on those? InRangeTV focuses on the issues with malfunctions when it comes to bullpups, and how you are basically performing surgery on some malfunctions.
Being in the UK the only full calibre rifle I’ve ever handled is the sa80 with cadets. Other than being a tiny bit on the heavy side I really can’t find any major issues with it. A2/3 models don’t jam often except with blank ammo (duh) and the handling is fine and feels natural. The chamber is easily accessible ( I believe the opening is comparable or larger than that of an m4s making jams easy to clear when they do happen). The thing you mentioned about banging your knuckles on the rocks can be easily solved by resting the grip on the rock rather than bracing against it. Plus the magazine always felt like a pretty natural resting point for the rifle. Obviously this opinion as I have never used another rifle except in airsoft
Also it does have a tonne of rail space which is nice when using right hand guard 😅
Being in Australia the only self loading rifles I've fired are the AUG (F-88) and F-90 (EF-88). Compared to other bullpups the LA-80 has some big flaws (even after HK fixing them), namely the charging handle is on the right and very far back, the gun can't be converted for left handed shooters, and changing the fire selector requires the shooter break their hold of the rifle.
I am incredibly bias when I say the F-90 represents the best bullpup design, but it's everything good about the AUG but with more rails and STANAG mags.
@@GruntyGame the F-90 and F-88 are definitely better weapons systems than the Sa80 with little argument. Id argue that the charging handle situation isn’t nearly as awkward as one would expect though obviously not ideal. The left handed shooter issue is a non issue as almost nobody here owns rifles and gets used to shooting leftie. People who are left handed settle on the weapon easily. The bigger issue is left eye dominance which is harder to correct
@@sigspearthumb9574 I would argue the time and effort to get good with your non-dominate eye could be better spent getting excellent with your dominate eye.
@@GruntyGame correcting non dominance takes no time at all really and with a standard bod they don’t need to be able to shoot like Chris Kyle. You don’t need excellency just enough to be effective. That and modern war shows that conflict is going to be rather up close and personal in the future
@@sigspearthumb9574 nah it's a lot more than that. you obviously shoot right-handed and so try shooting left to educate yourself.
The Aug was in fact absolutely worth purchasing.
I have wanted one since I was a kid and of course Karl and Die Hard. Its just so iconic, so I had to cross it off the list. But it was way after practical needs had been met first.
I was pleasantly suprised at how well it performs. My trigger is fantastic to me, not the best trigger ever but its way better than my PTR91.
Yes, the options are limited, but having an A3M1, with a Mr. Tucker railed forend to give me BUIS, along with manticore raptor ch, it fits the role of a compact 556 rifle perfectly.
Its simply a niche tool that is fin to shoot and does have its advantages, but if I could only have 1 rifle, it would be an AR. Still, I love it and may get a second.
The thing I am thankful for most however, is the fact that we CAN have both, or all of them. And we must NEVER give up our rights to them. Thats what matters most.
Dream bullpup is a 20" 308 MDR (with side-ejecting if the fucks would ever give it to us), with either a Black LBL integrated bipod handguard, or a similar length m-lok rail. All the space you need for accessories, a full powder-burn barrel length, but compact, balanced, and heavy-hitting.
It's just SO heavy. I have the Blk Lbl bipod on my 16" MDR and its a ton of fun when you're using it.... but I'm thinking about pulling it and going back to the stock handguard to save the weight.
Keltec makes a 24" version of the RFB.
Why 20" with .308? Isn't it like a fifty or one hundred fps difference? Wouldn't a 20" barrel make more sense if you're using 5.56?
@@georgewhitworth9742 20" barrel for more powder burn and better suppression. Also means you get more handguard space to arrange things how you want. A 20" 5.56 bullpup would be great too for the same reasons
Everyone who has ever shot my fully kitted and customized PS90 has absolutely loved it. It's a dream to shoot and 5.7 is a great round, especially when they stack in a 50 rnd mag ^.^
Bullpups are also fantastic for smaller framed people, such as myself. A full size rifle like the AR platform and AK, is very cumbersome for me. In fact, my PS90 fully loaded weighs the same as a fully loaded AR, but you would never guess because the weight sits near your shoulder as oppose to over the forearms.
I will say that an x95 with silencer and thermal is very heavy. It's heavier than a pistol with NV and silencer on it. The x95 is balanced much better though.
Honestly I dont really consider a P90 a bullpup, and I don't think most people do either.
Yes I know technically it is, but its so different from traditional bullpups that it honestly doesn't feel like its apart of the same family.
Fully kitted and customized? What is wrong with people
you have to be a moron to buy a FN PS 90
Is p90/ps90 a bullpen. I didn't think it was but now that u say that. Is the grip ahead of the breach of the weapon. It most definitely is isn't it. So yeah ur rite it's a bullpup. Huh. Thanks for making me think that one over
I jumped into the Bul Pup game with the Hellion and I have been very pleased with it. I had not had any issues with it. It took me about 5 minutes to familiarize myself with the manual of arms. Still haven’t purchased an optic as I am using the iron sights that came with it.
That isn't what manual of arms means.
@@denmanfite3156yes.... It is.
I put a eotech with 5x magnifier, Streamlight 1000lumen w/ remote switch, 2pt bungee sling, and a veritcal grip. this thing is a unit. trigger sucks, who gives a fuck. this thing is a reliable shooter. insanely accurate and compact.
The Hellion is it the Croatian FAMAS?
Basically the famas@@niksarass
Bullpups imo are better in everyway. My brother and i are complete rivals in this department. I refuse to budge. My BP has less recoil, looks cooler, is more stable, and accurate than his AR. My favorite thing about my BP is the mag being in the back. You don’t realize it until you feel it, but the stock resting in your shoulder, carrying the weight of that mag is such a huge benefit. Admittedly, you’re not using a drum mag with any BPs, but I think thats a worthwhile trade.
@ComsiCaterpillar yeah, but i personally wear a mask the the exact reason of gas. You’re breathing it in regardless if you don’t wear one, and you should always be wearing goggles or range glasses regardless. So it doesn’t matter really.
Do they have 2 lb 2-stage triggers?
Bloody knuckles? finally, a reason for those Kevlar knuckled gloves
MECHANIX M-PACT™️
I think the RDB is the most underrated bullpup, hands down.
Absolutely. especially if you put the couple bills worth of aftermarket upgrades into it to lighten the trigger, fix the bolt release, and replace the handguard.
Too bad it’s a keltec tho 😂
So underrated that the buttstock will crack in half when confronted
@@kilroy5166 slam any polymer firearm on a rock at a awkward angle and see how it fairs. FYI, Glocks are known to have broken grips for the last 40 years. Are they a subjectively bad firearm?
@@kilroy5166 i've had a friend it happened to as well. yeah. its a pretty big design flaw. thankfully there is an easy upgrade for it that fixes that issue. the Haga Defense RDB17 enhanced Buttpad
I’m personally a huge fan of the vhs-2, I would be interested to hear hops take on why he doesn’t like it
There are so many examples of functional light setups on it. I have one and absolutely love how it looks and feels.
He mentioned it in the video, in short he doesn't like to LOP and the laser mounting option, he isn't used to the ergonomics, the height over bore (where you mount the optic). It feels to alien to him, he wants what's familiar.
Same here. The real amazing thing is that he even mentioned why it has the adjustable stock in the video he just didn't realize it. It has a LOP like that so you can wear armor and get into the gun and kit still. As for it otherwise my 5'3 wife has no issues running it. I think people overblow how big of a deal it is.
@khoward9512 no doubt you can get a light on it. And that's good for most people. But they absolutely want NV which means laser is mandatory.
Use it somewhere that isn't a static range. They're all awkward to shoot when you have to go prone or shoot off barriers, especially if you try to change shoulders when coming around a corner.
I bought a Keltec RDB Defender (comes with mlok handguard) last year, not because I thought bullpups were better or because I thought I would like it more than my conventional rifles, but, because, up here in Canada, rifles need to have a barrel length of 18.5" to be non restricted (unregistered) so, the only way to get a short rifle that is still non restricted, is to get a bullpup. That is all that I wanted out of my bullpup, and I got it lol.
Yes up here we have to get creative with our purchases if we want cool shit. Good to see another Canadian doing his duty.
I think a stubby foregrip placed back towards the trigger guard on the bottom rail would make a great point to push onto cover and help protect your fingers. right about where the magwell of an AR would be in relation to the grip
Stubby (BCM) forgrip on X95 works great. 3Panthers also makes an aftermarket grip for the tavors that combines both the cutlass and traditional trigger guard (it’s nice).
glad to see a guntuber finally call bullshit on the whole 'its awkward to reload' and 'muh trigger'
It's not true and even if it was it doesn't actually matter anyway.
i think you will find slowdown in reloading actually matters quite a bit in a combat situation.
now for just having fun? na, not a big deal. but i wouldnt want to go into a firefight with one.
@@unyieldingsarcasm2505 It would only matter if you where standing up shooting at someone like in some stupid youtube combat drill.
In reality you're gonna be hunched safe behind some solid cover, and the 0.5 second difference is not going to matter.
@@impguardwarhameralso I've noticed training on speed reloads is non-existent in normal military training (pretty much every instance I've seen of it is just bored soldiers screwing around rather than actual training), so clearly nobody thinks it's important. Doctrinally soldiers should not all be reloading at the same time, and your squad mates should have you covered while you reload.
Its not true but if it was... Clown talk lol
Sounds like you can solve 90% of your issues with an extended shroud w/ rail and a barricade stop. Of course many of these platforms don't have an extended shroud option (especially ones that'll hold zero), and then suppressors that fit inside a shroud are also an issue.
or just buy a better ar platform.. theres not a single bad ass kitted out bullpup operator on the planet
Would use of a fore-grip mitigate some complaints?
@@3.142-x3b Kinda. Foregrips can get in the way when manipulating a barricade, whilst a stop would protect the hand when pushing onto a barricade without overly getting in the way. Coming to think of it, its probably some of the reasons why the Tavor and AUG have the exaggerated handguards.
@nomercyinc6783 - we take for granted the aftermarket on the AR platform, with even the worlds second most popular platform, the AK not enjoying anywhere near the same, and thats been reflective in tenders as of late as the alternative would be countries usually having to invest in developing a platform themselves. Apart from the VHS, there's really only been one other Bullpup platform come into modern service recently and thats the F90 which does come with a full modern suite built for it. Pity you can't buy it though.
@@nomercyinc6783There is one particular difference between bullpups and AR platform. AR platform completely shit the bed in vietnam and afghanistan while bullpups are the most successful weapons currently used in Ukraine and Israel. Quite obvious which technology is superior.
@@Tacet137 One can't really say that the Malyuk is a predominant platform in Ukraine. Israel went bullpups because their forces are mostly mounted and expected to fight both urban CQB in the likes of Gaza, and long range in places like the Golan Heights. As for Vietnam, that was like 50 years ago and a crap tonne of development on the platform since then with all the kinks ironed out.
I love the dog in the background. He just doesn’t care… Humans talking, I’m just happy to be hanging out 😂😂
I run my guns fairly slick and that's exactly why i like my AUG so much. Its a spartan-esqe setup that gives you the rail space you actually NEED, while giving you the option of the extended rail space you WANT. Plus most bullpups are more ergonomic for me YMMV.
i dont know why people call minimalist shit spartan. spartans werent minimalists
@@nomercyinc6783 Minimalist in everything BUT training; Laconia was only feared because they had the only professional army in Greece. That gave them the time to train with their gear that other city-states like Lesbos and Athens didn't have.
@@nomercyinc6783 it refers to their lifestyle. Spartans went without luxury and accoutrement because their citizens were all professional soldiers.
Same reason why they do anything, they heard some tool use it and they use it. Bet he has a punisher shirt and sticker
Same here I generally dont stick anything on my rifle I dont actually need. Sling, sight and good to go. I have found through experience that attaching anything not absolutely needed tends to not just weigh down the gun in the long term when you are carry the thing day in day out. If you are working at night yeah take off the sight and put on thermal or low light. The other big thing is that lights, lazers etc tend to get caught on everything around you and you yourself. As for the AUG, I own one and love it! Upgraded a lot of parts mostly with the Corvus line but it has made almost no feeling to the weight. Its ergonomic in ways the AR system only dreams of. Easy to clean and accurate. The trigger is not prime but its a battle rifle not a sniper rifle and can get good groupings at 500 yards with the 20 inch barrel fitted. The absolute worst thing with the AUG is the price of the rifle and the cost of ammo you put through it because you are having so much fun!
The RDB is under rated as a civilian gun. Once the gas settings are set it is reliable and very nice to shoot as it’s light yet low recoil, and great with a suppressor and with the downward eject as you noted.
With regards to malfunctions….you need to understand you don’t clear them as you would a standard AR. Tap rack bang doesn’t work. If you have a malfunction immediately remove the magazine before you do anything else and then proceed with racking the slide.
I know this sounds absolutely crazy, but the most common malfunction (due to either waaay to much gas or too little) is that the round being ejected doesn’t get thrown down the chute, and instead comes back with the empty casing sticking straight forward, which will then push another round into the chamber but the bolt of course is now sitting over the magazine and has pushed the next round in the magazine a little bit forward. So you need to rip out the magazine, rack out the empty, and then know that you will have round in the chamber still, so rack the gun again, or know that one is ready to go. If you tap/rack you’ll just worsen the triple feed.
Yes, malfunctions are tricky. Just drop the mag immediately if you have a malfunction.
Otherwise though, it’s a really fun gun, particularly the Survival.
Going to remember this with my RDB, no malfunctions yet but still good to keep in mind.
Ive really wanted one for a long time, this might be the video to push me over the edge
😅
Also a sign you might need one more notch up on your gas setting
@@joshcarlson9352 Correct, as noted in the initial post.
i think some of the ergo/ gear issues here could be resolved by letting go of the typical AR front grip position. My personal preference is a vertical front grip for this reason.
I also think there is too much reliance on dedicated rail space for things like buttons and slings. It might not look high-speed, but paracord, 100mph tape, and bailing wire goes a long way.
And if you really need a rail section on a handguard that doesn’t have Mlok, a drill press and a tap is a lot cheaper than tracking down some esoteric aftermarket handguard.
Trying to build a bullpup to be as short as possible with super short barrels is stupid. Longer barrels, longer rails and a few more accessories will go a long ways to fix these problems.
16:28 "Ow" doesn't move "Ow" doesn't move lol
There are very simple solutions to just about every issue encountered, but the main issue seems to be a refusal to adapt to a new platform. Trying to set up a bullpup like an AR is just not going to work as well as trying to set up a bullpup like a bullpup. And as a Hellion owner, I had zero issues throwing a surefire and a pressure pad on mine.
The main issue is bullpups are 🤮
@@bdp295 The main issues is that you're objectively wrong.
@@bdp295There is one particular difference between bullpups and AR platform. AR platform completely shit the bed in vietnam and afghanistan while bullpups are the most successful weapons currently used in Ukraine and Israel. Quite obvious which technology is superior.
The main issue is barrel length legality in 'murica. Of course a legal barrel length bullpup is too short to put all of your gizmos on. The point of bullpups is to get a LONGER barrel.
@@hermitgreenn They're not too short though. You can mount all the fancy gizmos you want for night vision on any commercial bullpup. You just have to do it differently than you would on an AR.
I'm the only person I know who likes bullpups. I think my fascination started with them when I was younger and played tons of Halo, which uses them for a majority of their weapon designs. Just something about them that is cool and practical in my eyes.
My experience is with the AUG and X95. My AUG A3 SA (the old version) seems to have some significant POI shift since the foregrip is attached to the barrel. I can get 2.5 groups at 100 yards on paper but then not even hit steel targets. It could be the difference between the grip’s being folded or held, but I’ve also noticed the barrel moves forward and backward a bit when locked in place. My newer A3 M1’s barrel doesn’t shift like that, but I haven’t done a comparison in accuracy and precision yet. They are really awkward to get into prone and supported shooting positions with, especially if using a mix of 30 round and 42 round mags. There’s also the problem that the gas port will burn the shooter’s hand if not careful or the vented gas will annihilate any bag used as a rest when shooting.
I haven’t shot the X95 at long range to test precision, but the default buttpad is square and feels terrible because instead of adding an inch to the barrel to meet the 26” minimum overall length, IWI chose to add that to the civilian buttpad. Using the original slanted buttpad makes the gun an SBR even with the 16 inch barrel. The cutlass grip works on the AUG because it has a 1911 shaped trigger, but it does not work on the X95 because it has a normal hinge trigger. My natural tendency is to choke up on the grip which would frequently put my middle finger behind the trigger and prevent the gun from firing. I had to buy the pistol grip with regular trigger guard to fix that. It doesn’t look as cool, but oh, well. Up until about a year ago, I was trying to be a hipster and use the AUG as my primary rifle and I thought AR15s are boring and tasteless, but now I have an AR that is my go-to rifle, but I have it set up like a heavy Block I so that it’s still somewhat hipster. I could probably shoot more and iron out or at least sus out the issues I have, but meh.
Should have gotten the x95 with the 18 inch barrel
@@estebanpena6784 Or the factory SBR. It was an impulse purchase, so it’s the wrong barrel length, color, and price.
I agree with you on the X95 buttpad. It's a huge hunk of rubber...which weighs a lot. As well as, the rubber sides always caught on my gear. What I did, is I purchased the thinner, plastic buttplate. And then I pinned and welded the (OEM) muzzle device. IWI should've just offered a 17" barrel..as you mentioned.
As someone who has carried a bullpup for military service, in my opinion the best attribute is the handiness and ease to run and march with one. It fits in very easily under the arm, making carriage over long distances more comfortable
I have the RFB (forward ejecting which is more gooder) .308 and I love it. If people can get passed the price it is a better designed rifle. With the weight in closer to your body the gun is incredibly stable. It would be hard to get it away from someone. Easy to handle in the truck with a very good trigger. I have all kinds of crap hanging on mine without needing more room, I did order the additional rail but it's the short barrel. I live in the mountains of Tennessee where a 300 yard shot is about all I get, the short barrel handles 300 yards with no problems. Now for my gripes which has nothing to do with the gun. I bought mine in a black Friday Kel-Tec sale for $975, it is normally $2000. $2000 is bull crap if you can still make money at $975, a gun is supposed to protect ya from the thieves. If you're on the fence about bullpups go feel of one then decide.
Damn! where do you catch a black friday sale?? I went to KT website and they don’t even direct sale , i’d have bought a truck load at that price
@@VergorioVergara I think mine is probably from the third year of Trump's presidency because guns and ammo was easy to find at competitive prices. I ordered directly from Kel-Tec for $975 and it shipped free to the FFL of my choices leaving $25 for the FFL to do the transfer and the customer had $1,000 in the gun. I'll give a thousand but two thousand plus!!! Not this old man, I'm not going to war. Whatever happens, happens in my front yard and I only need enough ammo to get me killed. I stocked up on everything during Trump's last three years. I knew after Obummer we had better buy when the prices stabilized. That time was probably the last time we'll see reasonable prices???
@@turdferguson5300 do you have to call ? Like i said i went to the website lately and there is not even options to buy anything but accessories
When I got my first riffle I had the benefit of not being indoctrinated by the AR platform and so was able to look at things objectively for my needs and wants. Suppression was highest on my priority list, small form factor was second. So when I learned the RDB 17 was was arguably the champ at suppression in it's class and had a small form factor but a ballistic advantage over similar overall length riffles in its class, it was a no brainer. Gripes consisted of the truth that you do need to loctite the screws on the top rail, I felt paying that price for a riffle one should not have to be concerned with rail screws coming out, and mine did, smh. 2nd gripe kinda, just learning the difference in clearing malfunctions (compared to my buddies ARs that I shot before), with the RDB as someone has previously mentioned here, the first thing you must do is remove the magazine before running and racking the charging handle, if you don't this will make things worse vs easily resolvable. Usually improper gas setting are the culprit of malfunctions, master those and you'll be good. ... Burris RT6 LPVO, 45 degree green dot offset at the very front of the riffle, streamlight HL-X (pressure pad on top in front of lpvo) with Arisaka inline mount attached to Lucky Irishman rail, ottercreek suppressor... it's lovely! In all my research prior to and after my first riffle, the RDB 17, it appeared to me that it gets crapped on only because it is not an AR (and that it's from Keltec lol). But you like what you like!
That actually sounds like a sweet set-up, have you tried a red dot magnifier on that setup at all?
Great video thank you. I have also found it is a lot more difficult to get a bullpup as clean inside as you could a regular style rifle, and they tend to be heavy for their size. They are still cool though!
So what. Rifles dont have to be spotless. Unless youre using old surplus corrosive ammo (all 5.56 ammo is Non-corrosive) than it doesnt have to be perfectly clean. When people go in and start scrapping carbon off their internals they usually just end up damaging their guns, especially the bolt and bcg on ARs
I love freaking bullpup rifles. They make 10x mroe sense for urban conflict than most other rifles. Modern tech has resolved the trigger issue, and if you need that buffer spring that makes an ar15 such a light shot then you need to hit the gym.
Compactness with full ballistics of a full rifle? Makes sense.
I own a keltec RFB ive modded, Tavor X95 (also modded), and an M14 I put into a bullpup case. You cant get me back to regular rifles.
When do we get the SWIMP Sport II and its impact on society video/rant?
Idk if you consider the Mdrx’s weight as a package that can sling 308 or 6.5 creedmore it now is in better company with more “battle rifles”. The price and the fact you basically have to buy and after market rail for any bullpup to get modern utility out of it is a big issue especially for the Mdrx and its price point
I agree. In Brass Facts’ case, I think the idea of the MDRX in .308 16” or even 20” barrel as a lightweight, compact DMR setup would be its best POU
@@Jan3214578954except it's a completely unreliable weapon that also won't last long without breaking parts in 308 or 6.5cm
My RDB defender (1 inch shorter barrel than the standard RDB) is a pain in the ass to disassemble compared to an AR. I absolutely love it though, looks so damn cool, and is so easy to maneuver. It definitely kicks harder than an ar, as it doesn't have that buffer system, but I love it. I run a 4-16x scope and a 45 degree offset red dot, angled foregrip, and a Flashlight with a pressure pad. It's a very fun gun to shoot, other people love to see it too. I blame my love for Halo growing up!
So it pretty much boils down to people being unhappy they can't over kit their gun? Could just create an extended frame that can house the suppressor and house more rails for attachments.
Never understand why people wish to add tons of attachments to their weapons, you specialize your setups, creating one setup for all situations just creates an over bulked mess of a kit.
If you really wish to over kit you could just buy attachments that can do multiple things.
I collect milsurps and have an RDB to fill an L85A3 niche with a Lucky Irishman handguard/bolt release, PA 2.5 prism, old surefire on an offset Haley Strategic mount, OTAL-C on the side and a grip pod. It is about spot on for 2nd kind of cool for me, but after this video I think there could be potential to take this to GPR territory. My Perst 4 fits on the 12 o'clock rail flush enough to not bust my knuckles charging the rifle and if I did the unity switch mod and paired it with a vampire flashlight I think it could make the jump to a GPR since the offset of the OTAL turns into such a shit show . I think the grip pod on a bullpup may be one of the few cases where it actually makes sense. The lucky irishman bolt release is also an upgrade you should consider. Great video as always!
> PA 2.5 prism
> Grip pod
> "L85"
Stop, bro
lmao
@@andreivaldez2929 Nope, 2nd kind of cool cant touch this bro.
@Kony20202 If words be hard to read my guy I can't help you out.
I love my FS2000 and was glad to get one before they became so scarce. It seems like the chonkiness would make it unwieldy but it handles very well. Almost completely ambi controls (except the charging handle) and forward ejection. The “toilet seat cover” lets u check the chamber and theoretically clear malfunctions but I have yet to experience one. Hope FN re-releases it, maybe as collectors vault edition
The FS2000 really is very nice rifle. My buddy has one and we brought his whole arsenal out to shoot all day once. I spent the vast majority of the day shooting his FS2000 instead of his super dope tricked out MK18 build. It's chonkiness ends up actually feeling really great and ergonomic. The only issue with it would be the same problem they had here. Trying to mount all the accessories in an ergonomic fashion. I wish I could've gotten one, but now they're so damn expensive.
I shot a full auto f2000 years ago, and absolutely loved it. I've wanted one ever since, but couldn't justify the cost for my income years ago. Kicking myself in the ass now, because they hardly ever pop up for sale and when they do people want absolute top dollar 😢
As a lefty bullpup enthusiast I am extremely jealous. Didn’t buy into it early cuz I felt like the ejection mechanism was a gimmick that’ll cause frustrating failures after a few years of ownership. But over the years I’ve never heard anything about it that would make it seem worse than your average AR platform. Shoulda trusted FN quality control. Sucks that the collectors tax puts it outta reach for any practical value, way further than it already was to begin with.
What I'd give for one
I'd prefer they don't rerelease the FS2000, because I have one and I payed a premium to get it.
Lol, I'm a selfish asshole...
The Primary Arms Microprism (1x, 3x, or 5x) would work great on a bullpup. Super compactness in a red dot footprint, but still has the option for decent magnification. I love them on ARs for being lightweight and compact, plus a really cool usable illuminated reticle
24:45 what camo pattern is this and where can I get that gear, it looks sick
I have a bunch of different Bullpups other than an X95 and Hellion. The AUG so far is my favorite but it really does require the aftermarket parts. I think If I had to choose one in a zombie apocalypse with a military giggle switched equipped, I would prefer an X95 SBR. My MDRX in 308 had nothing but problems after 200 rounds and is a PITA to clear. Most of the design issues were fixed in January though. I just haven't had a lot of time with it after I got it back from warranty. The AUG has been 100% reliable when using the correct gas settings and easy to clear when I accidentally leave the gas setting set to suppressor and shoot without a can. Biggest problems I have with bullpups are the rear CG makes them harder to stabilize for long shots and the magazine sits in the work space where a chest rig or tactical belly would be
If I had to choose a bullpup for a SHTF situation. It would be the X95 or AUG. Because, both are war time proven and reliable. I have both bullpups and would lean to the X95. Just because I'm more familiar with the X95 and personally gyrate towards it. I would highly consider a bullpup to an AR...considering the circumstance.
Science Fiction is the only reason I like bullpups (I've never used one)
I went thru a bullpup phase but realized I didn't like the port pop next to my ear/face, and feel I have some hearing loss in my ear because of it. Also muscle memory is a thing, so mag changes need to be practiced more than I wanted to devote to it.
Which model did you have? I'm sorry about the hearing loss, mate. I pray to god that your hearing is fully restored soon. 🤔
@@rickrick70 WHAT?
I had a x95 and TS12, but the same attributes will be true of any bullpup model
If you were wearing ear pro and the sound was still intense enough to do damage, that's a definite no-go for me on bullpups
@@LegitMLG360noscoper yep had ear pro
why would anyone want a gun you cannot customize to your size (e.g. regulable stock) is beyond me
bro the LARP is real
I own a tavor, and have built two SKS bull pups, and an AK bullpup. I also have an AUG and the MDR. I really enjoy the bull pups design and understand its flaws. I also have plenty of conventional rifles too. Just a tool, but honestly ergonomics and trigger are a HUGE deal with bull pups, the SAR I own after putting an aftermarket trigger in it is by far my go-to rifle, and when compared with say the cumbersome nature of the soviet bull pups its night and day. I feel peoples experiences with pups and how they view them is often shaded by these cheaper or poorly set up guns that are built to look cool and not really function smoothly, as you guys said covered in lights, lasers and the wrong optics and unbalanced. You can have all these things, but it takes additional thought on placement, and you got to get out and shoot to know the differences.
TMI
How did you get a bullpup AK?
@@evanlaslo A bunch of companies have made them, like Norinco (Type 86S) and Century Arms (AKU-94).
@@Rubeless then don't read and move along? not my fault you have a ticktok attention span UA-cam shorts is over that way.
Cringe.
The RDB was about to become my replacement for my AR. I could fit my LPVO, IR light/designator on it and it was amazing suppressed. Then one day it just stopped stabilizing ammunition and would key hole. It made me think about sustainability of an RDB or any bullpup really.
when I wear out an AR barrel to 3+ moa I would replace it or when a bolt head would break I would replace it. I have a box with an identical spare barrel, bolt, and other parts ready to go when the maintenance needs done
Parts breakage is a reality of any firearm that is being used. I came to realize when a part on my bullpup needed replaced due to breakage or wear I was shit out of luck. I would have to keep a second new rifle since the first was living on borrowed time.
This is what killed the bullpup for me. Very few people will ever shoot enough to start experiencing parts breakages so the market does not account for this. The builders market for the AR15 is the only reason it has the ability for user repair and sustainment. Any firearm that you can not amass spare parts for is simply a no-go in my book no matter what other capabilities it brings to the table.
Your RDB video(s) made me a bit afraid to put a can on mine. So far so good but we'll see how well it holds up.
@@Hoplopfheil I definitely think it’s just a one off lemon, I’ve had one other person DM me with the same problem but that’s it. That’s not to say I Haven’t had the same problem with AR barrels. I bought some random 13.7” and it shot 8 moa with 77grs but all I have to do is chuck it and buy a BA Hanson and it’s fixed. I honestly just can’t be bothered to FFL transfer my RDB back to keltech. Of all the bullpups out there it is still my favorite though. It’s the only one that isn’t taller than the sears tower or have a LOP for Yao Ming.
Love your content as well. You and brass are one of the few firearms people out there with good logic who aren’t cringe
@@Operator_Inquiries You can ship a gun directly back to a manufacturer, and they will ship it directly back to you. No FFL intermediary required.
Military bullpups like the VHS-2 can easily go over 50,000 rounds. Unless you are in a war fighting every day for 5 years straight, I doubt you will ever need to use a spare part.
Same experience as you two. Most people that I know that go this route will tell you how great it all is on paper and then they use them. They never really put the time in on an AR so they don't have anything to compare it to. Prior to the new technologies in ammo, I could see some of the arguments. I would prefer an SBR always. Bullpups seem to me to be an almost mandatory stop on the long gun journey, but there is a reason when you ask someone very knowledgeable in firearms, that they will generally recommend you pass.
I work in the maritime industry. And we get private military security teams who are ex US Navy Seals.
I asked them why the US doesn’t use bullpups. And he told me, it’s an issue with reloading quickly, without needing to take your eyes off down range. With the magazine so far back it’s much more difficult to load without looking at it. Meanwhile on a regular rifle, the magazine is forward enough that it is in your field of vision when you are keeping your eyes down range. Plus sometimes you’d have to move the rifle or take your finger off the trigger to reload them. This is sacrificing seconds in a crucial reload, just to have a lighter rifle. And that’s not going to work for professional military. You’re not always going to have cover to duck behind and take your eyes of down range, and your finger off the trigger to reload. I get real combat isn’t like Call of Duty. But the faster reload will save your life. A lighter rifle won’t save your life.
Plus they prefer the more customizable rails of a regular rifle.
And these people are the top % of operators. The benefit of a shorter barrel and lighter rifle really doesn’t benefit theme. They’d rather the larger rifle with more rail space. They aren’t struggling handling a full sized AR when they’re carrying 100 pounds of gear through mountains.
I love bullpups, esthetically, manual of arms. But then again, I also like candy corn so maybe there is a thing.
Also, I would love to see what yalls reactions are to the Reap Weaponries Scy or the A3 TRIAD.
My problem with bullpups is the small explosion is happening under my cheek and its pretty noticeable after a few mags.
The MDRX in 5.56 feels more tame than an AR, I think that can be attributed to it being built to accommodate .308-sized cartridges. I've definitely noticed what you're taking about when shooting a friend's X95
That doesn’t happen in any other guns?
@@gifthorse3675other guns aren't, by nature, designed to have the chamber directly under your face. A blowout on an AR might cost you some fingers if it goes pear shaped. Blowout on a bullpup is gonna hurt a lot worse
It’s all the same
@@TheHouseAlwaysWins-xs8zd do your shtf preparations assume everything will go perfectly all the time forever? Everyone's human, and squibs tend to happen if you don't maintain your equipment well enough
I selected the AUG as my home defense rifle and works perfect. I have a shake awake Dot and a streamlight and that’s really all I need. I will be able to add an aiming laser in front of the dot easily in the future. I don’t have an issue racking the charging handle because I put hi adhesive vinyl black tape over the rail and it works perfectly. When the laser goes on, I may decide to get a different charging handle but beyond that I don’t see any other need to upgrade it beyond 24” HBAR for larping
Non IR lasers are fudd gimmicks
@@kanaka118446 I should have just said PEQ/DBAL
lol a laser
are you running NODS
@@kanaka118446
Sure no reason for it when one can easily use the AUG one handed and from the hip if need be. Having a free hand in a home def. scenario to grab someone's hand makes no sense at all.
@afgh1408 are you running a brain?
3:30 The on screen text says, "Desert Tech MRDX." Just to avoid any confusion, there's a typo there; the R and the D are swapped. It's the "Desert Tech M D R X." Locally (here in Utah where they're made), we call them the "Mormon Super Soaker."
I generally agree the number one reason we don’t see more bullpups is price.
I have a Tavor. I consider it my “main” rifle. However, I’m not trying to bolt tons of things to it. It has a suppressor, white light, and LPVO. Not even attempting night vision toys. I do think Brass Facts is on to something though, and I have been Eotech + magnifier curious for it.
I like my x95 and I can appreciate its utility for extremely tight environments but it’s not my first choice for an overall rifle. I have mine set up with a t2 + magnifier and an og modbutton + modlite. I ended up changing my handguard and putting the modbutton on the only top slot of the optimus handguard so I would have comfortable placement of the light. For close quarters it’s extremely practical, but beyond like 50-100 yards I still prefer a normal rifle setup.
Honestly had a great time with my RDB, I regret selling it. I ran my scout light inboard on the side, and the DBAL-A2 on top with an LPVO. Simple tape switch for the action, it was my preferred night-rifle since it balanced really well with a suppressor and all the crap; so it was interesting to hear you werent able to set it up for NV use.
What a beautiful back drop to shoot in. Every time I watch a video show casing the American countryside, I am so thankful we have such a variety of terrain, weather, and wildlife to live in. Not at all saying you never need to see the world but there is a lot to see and explore here.
The biggest advantage for the bullpup is in the 10-12" barrel variety, where you can have a very compact gun that still has decent ballistics and in the very long 20-26" barrels where you can get the best ballistics and the gun is still fairly compact and maneuverable.
I love my MDRX but I think I would love it more in a .300blk Micron or a 26" 6.5 Creed with an appropriately long handguard.
Chronometers don’t win fire fights.
The 1911, AK and AR have been around for a long time and loved by many for a reason. The best use the AR.
@@RubelessThey been around a long time because they’re older creations. The “best” use them (discounting Croatians, French, Australians, and Austrians) because the US is pretty much responsible for the worlds military and they use the AR platform since it’s homemade. Because of that, it is easier to stick to ARs and make others adapt to it as well.
@@Devin7Eleven Not only homemade, but it also has better ergonomics, which is more important than origin.
@@Jeff.78 Ergonomics is debatable
Bull pups are expensive. That’s literally it.
Can't help but think the trouble with accessories is a problem with the accessories market being tailored to regular rifles, not something inherent to bullpups. In an alternate reality where bullpups are dominant, we'd probably have the same complaints about how stuff fits weird on regular rifles. The disparity in development time and resources specifically directed at each rifle format is unfathomably large.
Bruh, think about it: where and how would you mount lights or lasers on a bullpup considering the way they're designed? You can make a tailor made mount/ design but then you're making a suboptimal design that's being built around an awkward rifle.
Except the issue is lack of space on the bullpups to mount stuff due to moveing so much if the internals back behind the hand.
Anything designed for mounting on a bullpup is going to mount fine on a regular rifle.
@@andreivaldez2929 ...You've entirely missed my point, then almost said it right back at me. Yes, I was talking about making tailor made, entirely different formfactors of the things we're used to. If those existed, they would fit terribly on normal rifles. I don't care, just found it an interesting hypothetical imagining a different world with different problems.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 You're still thinking about things in the exact same formfactor. Lights and lasers can be any shape we want, and we could make them extremely differently to fit in less space lengthwise, and simultaneously make them awkward/sub-optimal to fit on a regular rifle.
Maybe things would be integrated into the handguard more, and we wouldn't even have such a wildly diverse accessory market.
Modularity may never have evolved the same way without the combination of the AR platform and the picatinny rail being invented, integrated optics etc may have been the direction instead; see G36, P90, AUG, OICW, G11. Pointless hypotheticals require some imagination. There are ways to solve the problem of limited space, we just haven't bothered as there is no need to.
I don’t see how accessories is an issue? Fitting an optic and a flashlight on a bullpup isn’t a struggle
It's interesting that you both took these compact platforms out into a huge wide open range. The whole point of them is that they are short but with the same ballistics as full size rifle. I'd try using them out of cars or in other compact places like a building. Also, I think a vertical fore-grip would solve your knuckle busting issues, but then again I don't think you need to mount your rifle when shooting bullpups because there is so much weight at the back of the gun you can free shoot just fine.
Exactly. They're complaining about the length of the optic taking up too much rail space because the gun is too short. You're using the wrong tool for the job, of course it's not functioning like the right tool!