Shop Says "Jeep Needs a TIPM"...and DEAD WRONG!! (15 Compass P0038)
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- Опубліковано 21 тра 2024
- This 2015 Jeep Compass is a CLEAN Southern car at only 75k miles.
The owner drove it 4 HOURS to PHAD for a second opinion for a pesky Check Engine Light that is failing the local State Inspection.
Current Fault: P0038 - Downstream O2 Heater Circuit High.
Another shop diagnosed it as "Needs a TIPM", but the owner has his doubts.
Let's see if this Jeep really does need a TIPM (smart fuse box), or are they completely WRONG??
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Enjoy!
Ivan - Авто та транспорт
As usual, thank you Ivan for the expert diag and taking care of the Jeep. She passed inspection, no problem! And, that other shop lost a customer.
If that was your JEEP...Ivan saved you a bundle. He is a wizard.
@@mikefoehr235 It's actually my cousins. I set him up with Ivan. It's not my first time taking my car to him. I thought we could get an O2 sensor issue taken care of locally, since it's a long drive from Delaware. But nooooo.
@@302vettelife2 how many kilometres or miles?
@@mikefoehr235 It takes 3.5 hours without stopping for gas or food. Of course you need to take a day off of work, since it's an all day trip.
Another great repair Ivan. It never ceases to amaze me how OEM's don't install grounds properly and especially Chrysler/Jeep with to many wires on one ground! Also they don't insulate the wires and terminals at the ground point properly!
Good one Ivan.
Me: Oh, that ground looks baaad.
Also me: (Heading outside with my morning coffee to look under the hood of my Jeep Compass)
With no compass
Loosen it and clean the connectors and tighten it back down.
Now your coffee tastes salty because it got diluted with tears.
haha same here with my '15 grand cherokee!
Can you imagine how many cars have been junked because of a simple ground problem
Or the Cash For Clunkers government program.
Jeep. First thought bad ground. Second thought bad TIPM. Third thought why did I want a Jeep again?
Fourth thought, because "no parts required". :D
Because Jeep is the only vehicle out there that still looks like an American car, and not a Japanese cartoon villain?
@@thirzapeevey2395 Don't forget the Dodge Challenger. :D
GM’s do the same thing
Can’t believe a shop could not even diagnose a bad ground on a heater circuit…SAD !!
They are in the business of selling and installing parts.
It has been said that Ivan wouldn't be employed by a shop because he would just diagnose a bad ground and not sell or install any parts. Given the high overhead shops have, that isn't acceptable.
@@lvsqcsl Sadly, you're probably right.
Nearly 30 years ago, when I was on my apprenticeship as a mechanic, if I mentioned 'a bad ground' in relation to an electrical issue, most mechanics I worked with would look at me like I was a witch. Mind you, I was the geek that used to take the Krypton tunescope manual home at night to read.
I can. Most shops/techs are incompetent, lazy, and looking to rip people off. If you have an Ivan, Eric O., Keith D., or Paul Danner type near you, patronize their business, appreciate them, and count your lucky stars.
The circuit wasn't even on the TIPM...I was big time confused at the other shop's diagnosis. But I figured it was a poor gnd. Chrysler is mighty stingy about adding redundant gnds. That being said, usually other problems with higher current draws show up 1st. SO this was a good case study. I dunno who builds these harnesses. My own 09 Challenger had an exterior lighting problem since day 1 ( headlights- std bulbs not HID) would pulse and you could hear the alt cycling at idle. I had it at the dealer 3 times. They replaced the battery, the alt, and the TIPM, same result. Luckily it didn't cost me anything. I grabbed a wiring diagram and found the gnd for all of that was loose in the crimp. I'm not a big solder guy, but that time I did. N/P since.
The first shops flow chart,
Is it a Chrysler product?-yes- replace tipm. 😂
To be fair to them it probably does need a TIPM, just not right now.
It is sad that so many technicians at so many shops do not know how to do simple troubleshooting and diagnosis especially where wiring and electrical issues are concerned. My personal opinion is they rely too much on computers to tell them what's wrong and have never learned the basics of old school style troubleshooting. Dealerships are notorious for simply firing the parts cannon because they have parts on hand. This customer probably saved a bunch of money coming to you, even with the cost of the long drive. Great job as usual.
Disagree calling Dealership notorious.
Many Shops do this.
And quit calling auto mechanic "Technician".
It's an over used term.
Just because you use a scanner does not make you a Technician.
You might as well call the auto parts "technician" also.
People come into parts stores. I want you to diagnose my car, it has a check engine light 🚨.
Presto, spits out the codes on paper, gives them the codes and a solution to the repairs.😅😅
I laugh at this approach. I asked who made the decisions how to fix the problems.?
I was told a "Team of professional Technician" developed the software and it's protected. 😅😅😅😅
One day I saw a report, to fix the problem, the report read, "De-ice the intake system", this was in the middle of summer, temp is 110 degs outside. I laughed so hard. How stupid must the so called professional Technician be or how stupid are people to believe this nonsense.
I do agree with you 100% , they rely on a scanner codes to tell them what's wrong.
There is no common sense.
I've been following Ivan and Eric O all of the time to help me troubleshoot.
Powers and grounds. They cannot beat that into my thick head. I even bought a 2 channel scope because of Ivan and Eric O.
Well. Enough of my rant.
Cheers
@@2nickles647they do know how they just don’t get payed the time they need to diagnose it. So they shotgun what they common see. Just how it is in today’s shops. Start paying them to diagnose and this will change. Until then Ivan and all the other Ivan’s are the solution. Cheers
It's a sad thing for our planet and wallets. On the other hand, it gives the smart people a chance to pick up cars for cheap and make good money on fixing the ones "reputable repair places" could not figure out. I drive "written off" cars for the last 20 years or so and I don't know anyone that has driven as cheap as I have.
Great job Ivan you saved this customer from paying for a new TIPM that would have been a waste of time and not resolve the issue..
Fantastic work, Ivan. Now that's the way to repair ground wires for permanence. Someday archeologists will find this Jeep and discover that G906A is the only thing intact. 😂
😂
Lol, it will outlive cockroaches and dandelions
One thing I've learned from Ivan, SMA, etc is to always start simple.
Wiring diagram -> powers and grounds
IV fixed a ton of those jeeps. 2 in 1 week the same color as that one. The problem usually shows it's head as a turn signal or headlight not working.
This one had a headlight out the week before it went to Ivan.
Watching from Tokyo. Great diagnosis and repair Ivan. Thanks for sharing your thought processes and explanations for each step along the repair path. Almost “no parts required” is a win-win success!
It's marvelous to see these videos where you're able to diagnose what was initially sold as a very expensive repair but turns out to be a simple, no parts required fix. The person who made the incorrect diagnosis would have gone on to perform the "repair" and of course the problem would have remained. Then what? The nightmare of having to shop your car around to find a competent mechanic is very real as well as the issue of payment for an incorrect diagnosis. In the meantime, your car is possibly out of service and you'd be mired in small claims court, because there's no way you should have to pay for incompetent repair work, most especially at 150 bucks per hour. It is unfortunate that there are so few Ivans in the repair world; worse that it actually makes Financial sense to seek him out despite the cost of shipping and inconvenience.
Eric O has seen this problem with that ground so many times.
About every mechanic that has worked on these have seen this many times. Lol
I think we should base our company's reputation on a giant wad of tiny ground wires next to the battery, said no one ever!
22:20 What causes corrosion there? Maybe gasses released by the battery causing it since the batter is so close to that ground point. All the differing metals that are exposed combined with the battery off gasses.
That is a great question
My guess is poor Chrysler quality work. 😅😅
Yes a squirt of fluid film when new would have stoped that.
I agree, 100%. Dissimilar metals corrosion plus the outgassing of the batt. Biggest fail is leaving everything exposed to atmosphere FROM THE FACTORY!!!
A little spritz, of just about anything , would've prevented this from happening for a long time.
Even covering it with oil or a little high temp grease (if you're REALLY on a tight budget). Inexcusable.
I would guess it is because you have exposed wiring. This is especially the case anywhere outside the passenger compartment (Though not a good idea inside the passenger compartment either). When the atmosphere reaches the dew point those water molecules can easily carry contaminants.
I find it amazing that garages would rather fire a parts cannon than actually diagnose the issue and sort it out the first time. Is it just a case that people fire the cannon in the hope they get it right and then can hike up the bill, or is it just a fire and hope? I'm not a mechanic, and I come here to see Ivan's logic and work ethic. I wish we had an Ivan and Eric in our area. I'd go there every time. Thanks for sharing, Ivan. I really enjoy your videos and the way you can explain the fault to a non-professional like myself, and I can easily understand it.
Spot on diagnostic procedure, Ivan! Simple repair and no Tip'em required 🙂
Interestingly, some soldering irons use the same procedure to monitor temperature (alternate power on and heater resistance measurement).
I have a fancy Metcal that does that.
@@scotts4125 Yep. It's the top brands that do it.
Great demonstration of knowledge, method and honesty of course.
Think I need to move up further north in Pa.so I can find a guy who knows how to fix my vehicle. Good technologist of cars is hard to find! Thanks for the info on your channel.
Great diagnosis. Awesome.
You are very methodical Ivan. Thanks for explaining your process as you go along.
Bravo again.
I enjoy all your journeys and I get to observe and learn best practices.
That lead-acid battery next to the ground junction has something to do with corrosion.
These mini FWD "Jeeps" financially break ppl.
For soldering larger terminals I'll use the torch you used for the heat shrink
The good and best thing is no ????mechanics or technician ???? did any damages. this jeep owner is very lucky or very cleaver. Thank you Ivan for showing the right way of any repair.
good repair, quality braised seam ring terminals, adhesive lined shrink, I use 3M Scotchkote for wire sealant it is great stuff
Another primo diag. A pleasure watching you work.
Great job as always 👍
Place your bets....😂
I wonder where he heard that before 😂😂
I had the same problem with pt cruiser costumer change the sensor some other shop run small ground wire and didn't work set a code again. I'm haven't study a lot about electrical basics but i realized that for some reason engineers run a long ground cable to the front of vehicle, it was hard to fine the spot were it was attached to the chassis but i found it almost the same spots as your fix that one. Car got fix code never came back. Thanks Ivan for sharing your knowledge on this videos everyday i watch some. And im surprised you come to New York or costumer tow car to your location for repair. I work and New York and i can see most of the shops need more well train technicians. Blessings Ivan!!
Ivan I love when you take a complex problem and give it a simple fix.
This is my favorite channel
I’m learning everyday day something new
You genius Ivan
A brilliant bit of detective work there Ivan .👍👍👍👍
You are a great patient mechanic. Wish i could take my vehicles to you
That was one of the easier ones Ivan. I suspected a ground concern about 8min in. Good job as always with explaining the process
Ivan, you are a fantastic mechanic, no doubt. I wanted to say, when I went through electronics training in the military, back in the late 70s, we were taught to warm our irons to 700 degrees for soldering. Wondering what other might share with this. Anyway, great diagnostics as always, thanks.
Hey Ivan or anyone else reading, if you're really serious about sealing off wires that have been probed give 3M 5200 marine sealant a shot. It comes in a toothpaste / RTV style tube and is so good it will immediately clog the spout after the first use. but all you have to do is poke a pin hole hole in the tube, squeeze an ant sized blob out for your wire and the tube will seal itself. Need more? poke another hole.
Thank you i have learned so much from you 💪🏻
Befroe watching the full video-Dayam. The TIPM, unlike about everything else on a Chrysler, doesn't even fit into the equation here. Probably the sheety ground we always see.
After watching great video-Great find! Guess B level techs just yell 'TIPM" since a majority of the time on Chrysler they would be correct. Great testing without guessing Ivan.
Majority of the time? Not really. It's an issue but I've seen way to many problems blamed on the TIPM when it wasn't at fault. Then after replacing it and finding the real problem, people only remember the $$$$ TIPM being replaced.
Just a stab in the dark: I would say the owner of this car watches your channel regularly, hence the, "Place your bets now" he stated in his note at the beginning. So, we can conclude that he had his doubts because of what he has seen you do on your channel; and you didn't disappoint. He didn't take it to many different shops who fire the parts cannon. He brought it to you and it was repaired the first time. Ya know, you might be starting to have an effect, Ivan. The only thing better is if you could have just tightened the nut on the ground stud. GREAT VIDEO!
You would be correct. Been a sub since almost the beginning.
Price of admission, is worth it. Good call.
Great diag again. A clue to the corrosion on the terminal is the new battery. My guess is the previous battery was off gassing for quite some time before total failure.
Thanks for the video Ivan.
Ivan you rock the diag bro. Great work once again
impressive work ... thanks ...
I literally just had one yesterday for both cam actuators,ac,and low beam. Dead nuts diag on the rf ground at g104.
Yep, this one had a low beam issue as well.
Another great repair!
Fantastic Diag & repair Ivan, i totally love this chann.
Awesome fix my friend. I have a friend who loves his mechanic. However they have no access to All Data or Mitchell. They only have a pocket code reader test light and Volt Ohm meter. I love them because after they fire the parts cannon. I get paid to do a proper diagnostic.
Excellent Ivan. 👏👏
Thanks Ivan!
Also my bet is the hydrogen gas from the battery since that is a southern car. As it’s right above the battery too 👍🏽🤙🏽
H2 is not a oxidizer
@@shakalpb1164
Yeah but the sulphuric fumes that go with it are not nice.
Yeah, the sulfuric acid fumes from the battery. Spray some terminal protectant on there.
Got nothing to do with h2 gas or battery.
It's poor Chrysler quality.
Hi, Ivan. Great video.
Have you tried using the Hz/% range on your clamp meter instead of connecting a scope.
It would be interesting to compare the two, to see how precise the meter is.
Also pre-heating the crimp connections with your gas jet before applying the SOLDERING iron would ensure a more even heat through the joint.
I use a heat-shrink heat gun, works a dream.
Using a Weller W100PG or something similar is a better choice for soldering items with a lot of mass. Lugs, large wires, terminal bars
Thanks!
Awesome work Ivan, saved this man a lot of money!
All data looks brilliant!
The only bad thing about soldering the eyelets like this is that it makes a harsh break point in the wire. So you really have to make sure that the wires are tied down and not able to flop around. So there's always a trade off.......... It's just like knife steel: you can trade toughness for hardness, but you can't have both. But this repair should be great for the life of the car now.
I have had the same experience. Soldered terminals will last a long time only if the wire does bend near the terminal itself. Terminals with a stain relief clamp are better. The wire following the solder terminal has to be well secured.
@@edwardromana Yep.. When it's multiple wires like this, it's usually fine if you tape it all up well; because all the wires reinforce each other and won't bend. But I agree-- a little tie down near the connection is best.
It’s obvious the other shops don’t follow proper diagnostic procedures . Following wiring diagrams and understanding sequence of operation often has the answer to the problem before throwing the parts cannon . Well done , and explained diagnostics .
Good job, only thing I don't agree with is the "small hole isn't going to hurt anything and it's not going to get the green crusty" right before fixing green crusty a foot away from your piercing probe. Always seal a pierced hole.
Nice work Ivan. I can't tell you how many times I had those Jeeps come in with dim or non functioning lights. Always that same ground point. I didn't know the O2 sensors connect there too. Good to know.
Also, Ivan. A nice little tip for when soldering on crimp connectors. It's best to tin the wires first. But if that's not an option, heat the area where you want the solder to end up at. Molten solder likes to flow towards the heat source.
Very cool. That was a nice straight forward diagnosis. Having the other bank waveforms for reference is super useful (although not required) to help confirm repair.
It's required, that gives you the information to back up the repairs.
How would you know how to data should read?
@2nickles647 Experience (sensor data/waveforms should have expected readings/patterns), and you can look it up.
Excellent video as usual.
From repeated experience, most employers have an invisible dart board with parts pictures; after running out of darts, they call the educated tech to bail them out of dancing backwards into a corner with the customers credit card, then they lie to the educated tech about what parts pictures the darts landed on and were replaced on the vehicle with the cheapest aftermarket parts they found. To add insult to injury they create a chaotic environment including loud annoying music playing through the shop. After the educated tech figures out the problem the shop owner resents having to pay him and asks all kinds of stupid questions, and then charges the customer for all the unneeded parts. This is a very common situation.
Every thing you said I spot on. 😊
@@2nickles647 Thank you for the reply. This is a huge problem in the auto repair industry. Every time I hear "nobody wants to work anymore", I give the same answer I give to women complaining that men don't want to get married anymore,
"they do, just not for you or to you", LOL.
Working for a stupid employer/shop owner is like a bad marriage.
Nice to work in a no stress environment huh Ivan.😊
Hi Ivan:
I do have a comment. Yes!! All the wires should be soldered with the shrink wrap. Good Job!!
Videos like this make me wonder how many of these known issues on vehicles, like "TIPMs always fail", are just urban legends borne from bad diagnostics.
Another fine job Ivan. You no doubtly saved the customer from some future Gremlins originating from the poor grounding.
Ivan should put the original sensor back. Better than the aftermarket parts.
Well done
HI IVAN,great vid.PLUS you quoted ALEX at NRF,he's a good guy for electronics."Better than FACTORY" haha
While it true that you don't NEED one of his microscopes to do YOUR line of work,I have the feeling that like myself you like to SEE components down to the microscopic LEVEL!!!I like working on car ,old clocks,laptops,plants,just about anything.I don't have the funds to buy an 800 dollar microscope ,but i have a cheap USB one and it works great,as i can see a grain of SALT at 400 magnification.I have a great time finding a crack in a head that open when hot only,under the glass cold it shows right up.Your vids are the most informative out there on cars,thanks buddy.
Ivan you saved that custome a small fortune. Great diagnosis and repair. These other repair sbops are not very efficient. Quoting for a new TIPM and would have been totally irrelevant.
Nice one Ivan. Neglected orphan of diagnosing auto electronic issues... The Ground Side.
Yep Eric O has already done a video on a Jeep compass or Jeep Liberty with the exact same problem. His repair was the exact thing with bundles in eyelets.
Nice job Ivan, saved the customer a lot of money.
You’re like a bloodhound determined to catch
It’s prey.. great chase Ivan ..luv it👌😎
Eric O runs into this all the time with Chrysler vehicles. I would have set my Weller iron at 800° since there are no circuit boards. Nice quick fix. I have a 2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited but live in the south. I will check my grounds first if I have any electrical issues.
My daughter bought one of those brand new and it had ghost faults from day one and I bet it has something to do with that ground. That might explain the lighting faults too. Thanks Ivan!
I went around my engine compartment and dabbed Vaseline on the grounds. After seven years in Northern Illinois, the terminals show zero corrosion. Battery terminals and various bolts get the same treatment. Especially the battery hold down.
In the salt belt that should be high priority to examine ground locations as part of the diagnosis
I really am blown away sometimes by the lack of basic electrical knowledge at many shops. This was as basic an electrical diagnosis as it gets and calling a bad TIPM was so far off it's not even funny. That circuit isn't even on the TIPM. I guess since TIPMs fail a lot they just fire the O2 sensor parts cannon and if it doesn't work it must be a bad TIPM. Sad state of affairs in the automotive repair industry.
Crimp + solder for the win. Your fix will almost certainly outlive the car!
A Stellantis product with a BAD GROUND? NO WAY! 😉 Nice one, Ivan.
Great diag Amigo thanks for sharing😅
Proved your point again bro...a good diag saves time and money of customers question is if the customers agree with it😮...great job always learn from your work and follow your footsteps in diags and believe me it saves me lot a trouble and time..same kinda issue resolved yesterday on a toyota verso etc(electronic throttle control system) malfunction a code p1725 with no definition and found one bad wire at the neck of pcm connector thx to your methods done it in a magical time NPR fix 😂
Do you think it has to do with the amount of circuits grounding to one big eyelet? Maybe the combination of all of those exposed grounds to humidity/moisture with low voltage/5v there
Great job Ivan
Chrysler O2 sensor problem. Just add a light bulb like the PT cruiser 😂😅
I feel like this is the first time I seen Ivan use a crimp connector not solder
Ivan every time I see you use that crimping tool I cringe! The right tool for the job is a Klein J1005. When I was in the car audio business this tool solved all comebacks related to power connectors. It puts an extreme pressure on the crimp and actually has less resistance than the solder job ( a good quality connector is required too). The pressure of the crimp makes the 2 metals as one.
a Jeep with a bad ground - you don't say.
Question - why the piercing probe instead of front probing? Granted, you wouldn't be able to see any signal from the PCM, but that wouldn't be high on my list of things to check unless the circuit all checked out. But this is another example of "wiring, not parts". You and Eric O. seem to get a lot of that.
A pocket genius Ivan
Time, good people, and money does get the job done 👍
Ground connections like that will keep you in business for life. Off topic... Are there any two-wheel trips in the near future?
Brilliant.
Hey Ivan how do you feel about these new "solder seal" connectors?
Curious with your known position against crimps
Another job well done wish I lived closer to you Ivan so you could have a look at my steering getting heavy towards the right It's grand every other direction but no matter what I say the dealership so far think it's okay
so many bad grounds now days, almost like that should be checked first for a diy'er
I do not know what they are used for (terminating to some battery connections ? ) the terminals that are copper & enclosed at the eyelet is what I would use then you could place all the wires (all twisted together) soldered all of them in one large twist place a copper terminal & crimp as well some good telecommunications heat shrink that should give a complete seal & connection which I believe give a single eyelet to connect to the body (less chance of fatigue point at the nut & stud on the body.) Cheers Ivan
Greetings: Simple auto electrical knowledge. The shop, if a shop and not an emissions station, is clearly not educated. Probably another Ujunk mechanic. Thx 4 the share.