The Brilliant Business of Black Flag
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
- History lesson on the LA Punk poster children BLACK FLAG, along with some added trivia and thoughts from yours truly.
Enjoy!
My Patreon:
www.patreon.com/user?u=70564403
Spotify Playlist:
open.spotify.com/playlist/70r...
Misfits Video:
• The Evil Endeavors of ...
Bullet Train Productions’ Black Flag Documentary Pt. 1:
• By Any Means: A Brief ...
Bullet Train Productions’ Black Flag Documentary Pt. 2:
• By Any Means: A Brief ...
Old News Segment on Black Flag Shows (BlankTV):
• Black Flag - National ...
Another Old News Segment on Black Flag Shows (BlankTV):
• Black Flag - Local New...
’83 Reunion Show Audio
• Black Flag - Live @ Sa...
CHAPTERS
Intro 0:00 - 2:46
Pre-Black Flag SST Years & Panic Formation 2:46 - 5:05
Name Change, “Nervous Breakdown” 7,” & SST Records 5:05 - 8:45
Shenanigans & LAPD 8:45 - 10:00
Ron Reyes Era 10:00 - 11:21
Dez Cadena Era & Police Violence 11:21 - 13:13
Henry’s Introduction 13:13 - 15:25
Recording “Damaged” & Unicorn Records 15:25 - 17:55
Disastrous UK Tour & ROBO’s Unexpected Departure 17:55 - 19:40
Unicorn Lawsuits & Everything Went Black 19:40 - 21:26
Recording “My War” and Kicking Out Chuck Dukowski 21:26 - 23:29
Kira Roessler’s Introduction, “Family Man” & “Slip it In” 23:29 - 25:33
“Loose Nut,” “In My Head,” and Breakup 25:33 - 27:55
Legacy & Impact 27:55 - 33:52
Closing Thoughts 33:52 - 36:00
I remember when My War came out and it caused a real panic with the punks who called them the new led zeppelin lol
@@diydylana3151totally 💯
Punks are conformists pretending to be anti-conformist
@@ganemrahman3424Not sure why everyone thinks punks have to live as anarchist squatters. They like punk music and go to shows. That's it. You're qualifying a person's enjoyment of music relative to their social status. Pretty lame
Other than the title track, it was a lousy album. It was written for two guitars but only one was recorded so it sounds thin. Ginn played bass under an alias. After the ferocity of Damaged, it was a let down. Some of the material is better when played live
Side 2... CLASSIC!
Henry got asked to audition for Black Flag after a show in NYC, not DC
I saw Black Flag many times in the early 80's including their last show here in Detroit. Great live band! There will never be a (Punk/Hardcore) scene like that again.
True. I really feel music in general peaked in the 80s.
Yep. I was at that show and the night before in Ann Arbor. Nobody knew these would be there last.
@@gregoryh9442 I saw their show in Gainesville, FL, which was the evening following the Challenger explosion. I was at an ATM getting cash to buy my ticket while it was blowing up about 150 SE of my location. Henry didn't mention it but he did throw at pen at me when I asked him to autograph one of his books of poetry. Kind of a dick move but I have that autograph.
I didn't see Black Flag in detroit but I saw Circle Jerks at Saint Andrews in 1991 or so along with a ton of other bands!
Saw the Circle Jerks in AA at Blind Pig on the Wonderful tour. And about a year later in East Lansing in some hall at MSU
the misfits, the vandals, and black flag? at one show? holy crap, i was born in the wrong decade. i bet that was a phenomenal show.
There were so many epic shows like that throughout the years. I saw Primus, Pantera and White Zombie on the same tour, and that doesn’t come close to that lineup.
You would be complaining about crowdkilling you spode
Those were every week in places like the Bay Area back then. No internet made for some epic parties!! Haha
Fully concur with this statement, I needed two decades, so I could see HENDRIX, THE KINKS, THE WHO with KEITH MOONie, THE ANIMALS, IGGY AND THE STOOGES young(saw the reunion at RiptOffFest tho as older), THE GERMS, THE SCREAMERS, THE WEIRDOS, THE ZEROS, MISFITS(with ROBO, not DAVE LOMBARDONtbo zi caught four reunion shows), SAMHAIN, CREEDENCE CLEARWATER REVIVAL/THE GOLLIWOGS (I have touched the board once owned and recorded all their tracks by Fantasy Records and MARK RUBEL said in time, I can record MY tracks using it at his POGO STUDIOS/BLACKBIRD ACADEMY once his biography about MUSCLE SHOALS is completed and published and in between classes I am admitted to either side, once I got $24K to throw down his BLACKBIRD ACADEMY way!), and countless others. No one will buy my music anyway, so I better learn to print my money using 3D printers I own and use my 132 plectrums copyrighted and designed, just need to learn vector rendering of drawings to produce in my hands what I see in my head!?
This Misfits set from that show was released as _Evilive_ in 1982/1987. Henry Rollins joined Glenn Danzig onstage for the encore and did a duet on "We Are 138"... if you want to call it that. "Henry from Black Flag," as Glenn introduced him, didn't exactly know the words to 138, so he just screamed.
Of all the punk, hardcore, crossover & other punk sub genres out there, Black Flag is my favorite of them all! They’re literally brilliant!
Saw Black Flag play a headlining show at the Ukrainian Cultural Center on Melrose Blvd. (in the same hood as LACC) on Dec. 10, 1982, with D.O.A., Descendants, & the Minutemen. Dez Cadena was still with them, & Henry Rollins had already started his long hair and short shorts phase (which the crowd did not like). In response to being spit upon, Rollins said, 'Go ahead. I'm going to take a shower after this anyways.' The spitting stopped.
Wow dude. I would love to have been able to see them back then.
Black Flag was one of my favorites when I was getting into punk in the early 90s. I lived in rural southern WV where there were punk was basically nonexistent so I had to discover bands by word of mouth or mixtapes people gave me. I'd spend the summers ordering records from SST by money order. They still had 1st pressings of some of them & a vinyl LP was $8 I think. Those were the days. LPs cost twice that now...sometimes more.
"Swinging on that flag like a punk rock Tarzan"
Keith Morris
SST was notorious for not paying artists. Not sure how brilliant that business plan was.
RAY PETTIBONE is a real artist, love all of his work, my favorite is FAMILY MAN cover, sick stuff
"Damaged" still remains a stone-cold classic.
"Rise Above" is hardcore at its' best. Only Bad Brains matched Black Flag for sheer intensity. The brutal "Police Story" shows things haven't changed much in 42 years.
As for "TV Party", fast and very funny indeed. Iggy played it on his radio show and was laughing his head off throughout the track.
The best tribute of all.
Yes. Even the metalheads in 1986 couldn't deny "Damaged".
I have to say that my favorite Black Flag album was Jealous Again. Never really a huge Henry fan. And I was lucky enough to see Flag at PRB a few years ago. So good.
Same here. Never was a big fan of Rollins. I saw them in early '81 with Dez in front and then in the summer of '81 with Henry. The first time was the best.
I don't know what it was, Henry Rollins just didn't really have the same depth as the rest of the band. He was just a hardcore skinhead. (With that said, the S.O.A. EP is GREAT. He should have stuck with that.)
Amen
I like My War, but that's as far as I go with Rollins. Keith/Dez/Ron years are definitely the golden days.
@@dr.juerdotitsgo5119 fuck yea
Jealous again was my favorite
I'm pretty new to punk and saw em live this April. had an absolute blast. Got a pic with the vocalist Mike Vallely and a guitar pick, too! They played my favourite song Black Coffee which made me super happy,
I honestly forgot he was part of the band for a bit
@@punklover99anarchist scum
That's so rad. I used to skate Mike V boards in the early 90s.
THANK YOU FOR MAKING THiS!!!! Ive recently been completely obsessed with black flag and brains lately and its great to have more insight into this amazing band
Bad brains***
My favorite Black Flag release is My War. I love the combination of hardcore explosive energy and the early proto sludge metal crawls. So many great tunes on that album. I got into Black Flag through a friend. They made me a mix CD and it had the entire Nervous Breakdown EP on it. I have been a fan ever since then. I think their biggest mark on music is making something that’s easily accessible and relatable to so many people. Black Flag as a band is incredibly catchy so naturally, that’s an easy entry point for people who are looking to get into the hardcore punk/punk rock genre of music. As for the relatability piece, it’s more or less capturing the feelings of being pushed around for too long and deciding to fight back. It captures that plus the feelings of being a young person. Not fitting in, society always judging you and all the other stuff that comes with that. Regardless, their impact as a band on society as a whole is incredible. I hope many other people continue to discover their music because it’s just really important now more than ever I believe.
Drink, drink, don't think, drive
Love the channel. Reagan Youth and Rudimentary Peni vids would be awesome. Maybe Leftover Crack and that whole C-squat scene too.
I was fortunate enough to see Black Flag with all four singers live and visited the Church. It started with the Concerts in the Park show a few days after my birthday and also included the Santa Monica Civic and Fleetwood shows among others. I always found the rigid definitions and ideas about selling out attached to punk to be kind of sad because part of the idea behind the hardcore scene was to create your own music and be true to yourself.
Awesome that you got to see Black Flag with every singer. The DIY attitude punk created is a great thing that has influenced underground music in all forms. Just getting out there and doing your own thing is incredibly inspirational. When you're an aspiring musician seeing massive bands like The Rolling Stones or Kiss doesn't seem possible or realistic to achieve. But when you see a band like Black Flag you're like "Hey this might be possible". Creating your own music and being true to yourself is what being a musician is all about imo.
For those who want to a full deep dive down the Black Flag/SST Records rabbit hole, first read Jim Ruland's amazing book on SST Records that came out over a year ago. (He also wrote books on Keith Morris and Bad Religion, and a super nice guy on top of it all). It both covers the history of Black Flag, but goes into great detail about the rise and eventual fall of SST. Then, the real rabbit hole is the "You Don't Know Mojack" podcast, where two Canadian music nerds named Brant and Ryan discuss each SST release in order, one by one, starting with Nervous Breakdown. They conduct interviews with dozens and dozens of musicians who put out albums on SST, including Bill Stevenson, Kira, Chuck Dukowski, Dez Cadena and so many more. They're currently 250 episodes into the endeavor. I know a lot of people wrote off SST Records after the mid 80s, but a lot of the overlooked and obscure stuff they put out in the second of the 80s is outstanding, or at the very least, unique.
My biggest complaint about Greg Ginn is how he has squandered SST, just putting out crappy repressings of a few SST titles without any care put into it. Moreover, he owes bands a lot of money. The worst part is that he also has let a lot of those titles go out of print and refuses to turn the masters back over to the artists so they can at least reissue it on their own terms. I appreciate Ginn's willingness to document and release stuff from truly weird bands, but he's done a disservice by not honoring SST's unique place in music history by letting the back catalog essentially rot. The Mojack podcast definitely provides some insight into how some of the artists from back then feel about SST (both good and bad).
There's also hopefully going to be another SST related book by Abe Gibson who apparently talked to each and every band that ever released albums on the label and no doubt will add more color to this part of punk rock history.
Yes; letting the catalog sit useless is the worst part of it.
Tha j you for the info!!
Damaged was the first Hardcore album I heard. Changed my life.
Left out Chuck Biscuits brief stint during the 1982 tour - first BF show I saw. Saw him play with the Circle Jerks a year later. Love the video with Dez giving that ditz chick a swift kick in the ass off the stage :D Saw Johnny Ramone do the exact same thing with another floozy on stage
Undeniable one of the best logos ever - and so simple
I saw FLAG when they were touring the East Coast. It was awesome, and I got to meet Keith and Dez.
Nothing tops the takes with Keith Morris on vocals.
“Black Flag walked so Acid Bath and Tad could run.” Fuck yes.
Acid Bath is depressingly underrated.
Solid video and extra detail on SST and BF. This brought back some good memories.
This video is very well done. The most influential album is definitely damaged. You really tied it all together.
Damaged was a game changer
Lol not even ! Jealous Again EP
@@udontknowmeman no need to be jealous over damaged
@@bryonsteik7435 nope that wasn't their best work
Weird timing on this video. I just cut my Harley luggage rack into the bar logo. Great video as always my dude!
Flipper was doing the slow, sludgy punk rock thing at least a few years before My War LP. Also there were other DIY punk labels prior to SST - Discord Records probably being the most prominent. BF 100% made an impact but I would say they were part of a collective shift in music from that period. Definitely at the forefront but not solely responsible for the grunge sound that came later on. Too many other influences.
Flipper are great....also Fang..
I spent a year on guitar in Scott Reynolds's post All project the 'Steaming Beast', got to play a couple shows with some of these folks-and Greg came to a few of our shows here in Austin. One thing I can certainly attest to is his open mindedness and iconoclastic refusal to bow to any trends or images other than his own that he self-creates as he evolves. It surprised me to learn of his affinity for the Grateful Dead and some more outre forms of free jazz-he had one project going on in sort of beginning stages called "Jambang", involving music improvised along with some pre-recorded sounds set to and including video of these little mechanical robots-this was just before that odd period where there were two versions of reunion Flag tours going on-i think about ten or twelve years ago.
Scott is the coolest guy ever! Pavers and Goodbye Harry are criminally overlooked! And I finally heard a bootleg of the Fast Gato album Scott did with Greg. Why that never got released is a real mystery.
I love how the minute men look like their all working at a farm stand in Vermont and are a hippie jam band which in all fairness they kinda are.
I played the San Francisco punk scene in that era. Flag was my favorite
SST made ham radio tuners, not AM. Big difference
Saw decline in 1982 at the midnight movie theater, got jealous again weeks later, one of my favorite eps. Then got damaged, but I got it all went black, I was amazed of the back catalog they had at that time!
Excellent… Thank you… I got into punk about the time Black Flag was winding down… and although they were and are one of my favorite bands... I never had the pleasure of seeing them live… but I have seen Henry many times!
When you think of hardcore punk rock, the first band you should think about is Black Flag! I have seen them play many times since 1979. The Black Flag Bars are and iconic symbol of punk rock!
Yes, well, let's not be dismissive of Minor Threat or Bad Brains.
@@citybikesalex I'm talking Southern California hardcore punk rock!
@@willquigg8265 Then I completely agree with you, you just didn't limit it to SoCal in that first comment.
Possibly your best video yet. Really well organized, and it kept a good pace the whole time.
Please do the SST video too.
If you have to pick one album to represent Black Flag, it would have to be Damaged, But I have a huge spot in my heart for My War.
About Raymond: He also designed the legendary cover for Sonic Youth's "Goo".
OMG!!!! I can't even finish this video without being stoked as hell for it!!!! My ABSOLUTE favorite band ever!!!!!
My first tattoo was the Black Flag bars when me and a friend had em done by another homie stick and poke style on the dirty floor of an abandoned apartment blitzed asl at 3am or so at the tender age of 13 lol
Keith absolutely put his mark on it but Dez, Ron, and Henry's vocals and Henry's stage presence, the relentless DIT touring, the experimental guitar parts that ya can hear early on and showed up in other bands like Toxic Narcotic later on, going independent and then putting on other bands, and Raymond Pettibon's amazing art, etc, all laid the groundwork for sooo many band and genres/subgenres and set the bar HIGH.
It'd be impossible to really calculate their impact and the ways that they left their mark, but it's probably more significant than any other single band I can think of.
My first punk show was Black Flag with Gone and Painted Willie. It was at the Knights of Columbus Hall in Gainesville, FL on January 28, 1986. The shuttle Challenger had exploded earlier in the day while I was at the ATM getting money for my ticket.
I still have my shirt from that show as well as an autographed copy of Henry's poems.
Saw that show in Minneapolis.
Saw this same lineup in Medford summer of 86 traded my Grateful Dead T-shirt with their sound man for. Three Black Flag tshirts. Told the sound guy ii had to keep in on for the mosh pit. Which he said "But of Course" handed it back all soaked in sweat. Greg Ginn also came up and liked the GD. T.
the 7" EP was issued at the venue, a DIY rendition of Louie Louie which would prove ironically quite the not so friendly endeavor
They got their name from the bug spray. That’s why Keith morris’ current band is called OFF! (Another bug spray)
Black Flag kills Ants!!
And Roaches too!!
Great, great video! I’d love to see one of these styled videos on Crass. I think there’s more than enough history to make one. Cheers friend!
Love the Sloppy Seconds shirt. Saw them (and Black Flag) many times.
Another well done video by The Punk Historian.
I’d love to see something done on. Less Than Jake
Wow, this is such a great video. Good job on it.
I've got the original flyer from BLACK FLAG's second to last show at the Nectarine Ballroom in Ann Arbor. The next night was their last show at the Greystone in Detroit. My mom wouldn't let me go to the Nectarine Show because it is a bar she used to drink at. I saw the EXPLOITED there in 1987 though.
The first indie band to get in a van and tour DIY. I’ve been a huge fan since 1984…I’m not sure about rollins but he did cool stuff with Black Flag. I prefer the earlier stuff doe.
I like all of it. Especially the Rollins era stuff. My War, Slip It In, and Loose Nut are all killer records. I liked the production on My War and Slip. The production on Loose Nut was just missing something. In My Head is a pretty mediocre record. The song "In My Head" is amazing. Check out some or the live versions of that song.
@@slanderbob415 agree…loose nut had something really missing. In my head is a legendary song from a meh record lol. I’ve seen so much stuff since UA-cam came out lol…when I was a kid into punk and hardcore (52 now and still am)..we learned everything through zines and MRR. The odd copy of “decline of western civilization “ might pop up at the video rental place…when I mention Rollins I’m talking post black flag.
D.O.A. was doing the DIY van tours concurrently, but they often worked together and shared information. I credit those two bands for inventing the punk rock tour circuit.
''What's my position for people who don't like Sloppy Seconds? Pain.'' Nice shirt...
You are incredibly qualified btw! I always learn something new from your videos. Can't say I'm a fan of modern "Black Flag" though- My favorite eras are Reyes, Dez, and Rollins...keith morris is always going to feel like Circle Jerks to me
I agree. A lot of people say Keith Morris was the best singer for Black Flag but he really sounds better with Circle Jerks.
To me one of the greatest punk band's of all time by the way I'm 53 and from England and more into oi! Music been a Skinhead since 1983 friggin love Black Flag though.
have seen Black Flag 9 or 10 times. They were awesome.
Just saw them a few months ago with Mike Valley on vocals. Mike killed it. if you know skate history, you know Mike.
It's Vallely not Valley. If you know skate history, you know his name.
Man this was so well done. I enjoyed the hell outta it! Thanks for making this
He has good presentation skills. Nothing drags.
NIce vid! I agree with you here; despite loving BF's music I think their DYI ethic is their more vast influence (transcending geners of music and influencing artists that probably never heard a BF record). It was as important as a political revolution! They created an underground nation.
Thanks man, I dig your vids.
1980 Ron Reyes is OG singer. I grew up in Downey California as the only Mexicano I loved the song white minority. I was a Mexicano surfer punk. Frank Martinez Downey California ❤❤❤
Awesome Sloppy Seconds shirt. I have a few from a show that I saw them in 2017 Remember the Punk festival.
Great job with this documentary.
Regarding early US touring , don't forget to mention DOA, who had pulled of national US tours prior to Black Flag.
The Buzzcocks released their Spiral Scratch EP on their own label in January 1977, and the Saints in the spring/summer of 1976 released their Stranded single on their own label, the Misfits in 77 with their Blank label which became Plan 9.
Great work. Thanks for the video.
Very informative, well done. I know it was a short stint, but my favorite was Keith Morris. I always thought Rollins was more of a metal guy.
Rollins got started in the equally-fascinating (well, for me actually even more interesting) DC HC scene. He did get a bit metal after BF.
I still have “everything went black” on cassette. I’ve held on to it for over 30 years. SST records….. Lawndale CA
Loving what you are doing mate, how about 1st gen british female fronted punk bands- Penetration, Raincoats, Slits, ( Banshees been done to death), but more importantly , X Ray Spex! Xxx
Blimey, Six pack was released in 81? God I'm old.
I bought the early photographs book of black flag when they were panic. Two years ago. It's really Interesting. Though I believe it quickly went out of print.
The foundation of any alt/extreme genre after 1984, Sludge, post-HC, Stoner, Grunge, you name it, and all the good stuff basically comes down to that beutiful collision between Black Flag and Black Sabbath (think Kyuss). SST was the blueprint for indie labels and Ginn's work ethos is still relevant today.
Flag was so much more black flag than that weird reunion was
Love your videos, keep it up! Can you use a mic when it cuts to you in your room?
I saw Black Flag In NYC in 1984. The "Slip it In Tour". Shout out to Kira on Bass! She was a killer player! If you think about it, She has to be one of the most famous and first female players in a Punk band.
RIP Spot!! 💜
Grew up with Brian migdolls daughter hollie found out like 20 years ago in high school that I knew a legend
The Process of Weeding Out is really the only BF record that holds up over time. The best thing about the rest of their catalog is the Pettibon artwork. Huge props to them for setting up the DIY blueprint, but musically they were average, especially in comparison to bands like the Minutemen and the Screamers and Bad Brains and Die Kreuzen and on and on.
Wonderful retrospective Jack, as always! I love most eras of Black Flag...I'd be hard pressed to pick a favorite record.
P.S.....Sloppy Seconds is one of my favorite bands of all time and I can't seem to find any good shirts or patches. Any way you could point me in the direction of where I can get that shirt, or other cool Sloppy Seconds shirts or patches? Thanks again...and keep doing what you are doing..it's important.
Nice. Saw Sloppy Seconds at Punk Rock Bowling this year. So good
Just saw the part with your leg tattoo- love the bars with Hot Water Music, Alkaline Trio, and Strike Anywhere/Iron Front logos! Is the other one from Smashing Pumpkins art-Bullet with Butterfly Wings?
Nah it’s The Lawrence Arms hourglass logo haha
Cheers for noticing that !
@@thepunkhistorian6397 Ah! that works better with the theme of the tattoo. Hot Water Music is one of my favorite bands of all time!
Anyone else remember the scene from Freaks and Geeks where Daniel Desario is listening to "Rise Above" in his bedroom?
Black flag definitely paved the way because MCA later signed the Damned.
And their early UK shows left a big impression because Black flag became big over here
You left out the part where Greg Ginn has a long history of withholding payments due to bands, musicians, and even his own brother. Pettibon has never made a dime from this stuff.
_Armageddon Man_ off Family Man is worth listening to again - it's pretty fucking amazing, loose and unhinged, punk rock Coltrane.
I actually didn't discover them until I was 15 because the internet wasn't as developed as much as it is today. I am 41 now. I had a shirt of theirs with the bars that ended up getting ripped in half by my younger brother
Nice job covering the Flag…
6:24 fun fact, one other such LA-based band named Panic was one that included Dave Mustaine before he joined Metallica.
I recommend anyone into black flag read get in the van by rollins and my damage by Keith
Sloppy Seconds shirt 🤘🤘 My boss had them signed to his label lol.
the brilliant business of ripping off your band and label mates. greg ginn is an entrepreneurial genius!
Good musician, bad person
NYC, and DC give SoCal a run for their money...
Would you please do one on tsol also?.... This was really good btw!
Spot also produced The Big Boys RIP
I'm England punk was according to some from England to me no it come from CBGB'S New York sound where Malcolm McLaren found it.
Another superb video ❤
You should make Sunny in Philadelphia again.
I loved that show.
Nevermind a leg tatt of the bars I got it on my inner left wrist. Man that stung
Regarding post Rollins Black Flag... perhaps that is better left for a follow up episode with a bit more historical research, but you should have mentioned the hindenburgeseque Benefits for Cats reunion at the Hollywood Palladium in which Mike Vallely was involved. Also since you are talking about brilliant business you need to mention that Greg Ginn sued Flag in an attempt to keep them from touring and did loose and injunction. And don't forget to mention Good For You and how Ron Reyes was treated at the end of second run as well , assuming you get into the history of the Vallely era which arguably the version that will play to the most fans assuming the keep touring as they do.
'...so I might as well live in a closet for $18.00 a month."
- Ron Reyes (Chavo)
He was their best lead singer. Don't disagree with me. I'm older than you and I am right.
No dude. I am older than YOU and WE are right.
Grew up in Ventura in 80’s. life long Black Flag fan. The music isn’t even that great tbh. It’s about the unwritten black flag lifestyle that they never preached. They never wanted fame and fortune. They wanted an experience with everything they did. Henry might not be the best in some peoples opinion, but to me, he’s my Sid Vicious. I picked the right dude to model parts of my identity after all these years. Henry is Punk Rock. Period.
Funny thing is that rise above What's the first song I ever heard by Black Flag
the best era was the pre-Rollins era. Damaged is good, and then they have a few good songs on every other record. What is usually called "complex" and "ambitious" songwriting by Ginn is just some self-indulgent sludge, to be honest. the fans were right then. he even fired Chuck from the band for this reason, allegedly.
This is a fantastic video history of Black Flag! Disappointed in one thing, though. At 27:48 you said, _"but instead of dissecting all the 'where are they now' drama."_ What about Black Flag in 2023 still being together & touring like crazy the last few years? I've seen them 5 times in 3 years! I don't care about the lawsuit, the bickering, the drama. What matters to me are the songs, the music, and the live performance. Saw Black Flag 2 nights ago in Houston. Sold out, as were their Dallas, Austin and El Paso shows months ago. They'll be playing Dallas _again_ in three weeks! Yes, Greg Ginn is the only original member. Mike Vallely isn't as good as the former vocalists, _but he's still damn good!_ This is a different magic than Black Flag in the 80s. It's those incredible, famous songs played & sung to perfection, senior citizen mosh pits & a big sing along of gray-haired punks! I hear insults & people making fun of the current Black Flag. Why? They kick ass on stage! Greg looks healthy & still plays like a man possessed. As far as Greg Ginn, _that's_ "where are they now!" Also still together are; GBH, DRI, AOD, Circle Jerks, FEAR, _original_ Misfits,X, Black Flag, 7 Seconds, Negative Approach, Murphys Law, Queers, Agnostic Front, MDC, Dead Boys, Sick Of It All, Cro Mags & more I've LOVED seeing the last few years!