How Would WWII Aircraft Perform In Modern Combat Scenarios? (AA, SEAD, CAS & Strike) | DCS
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- Опубліковано 10 чер 2024
- Today we explore the question of how useful World War 2 aircraft would be in modern combat theatres.
PATREON: / grimreapers
0:00 Intro
0:15 Scenario Details & Predictions
6:19 Mission 1: CAP
13:00 Mission 2: SEAD/DEAD
24:49 Mission 3: CAS
33:43 Mission 4: Convoy Strike
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#DCSQuestioned #GR #DCSWorld #WWII #WorldWar2 #GRDCSTesting #DCSTesting #DCS #Aviation #AviationGaming #FlightSimulators #Military - Ігри
I had an Idea for a what if scenario for you. I was reading about the A1 Skyraider, and discovered that it could carry the same bomb load as a B-17 (3300kg) for about the same range (2000 km), all while being single engined and carrier capable. And it got me thinking: What would the Doolittle raid have looked like if they had used the A1? I know the range would be an issue, the carriers of the time would probably be ill-equipped to handle A1, and the carriers would've had to have stayed close to Japanese waters for an extended time compared to the IRL raid. I don't know if they even have a A1 mod for DCS, but would be fun to see.
Good idea.
The AD-1 (before it became the A1 after the 1962 tri service unification) could have launch from Hornet. It did from Essex class carriers during the Korean war (see the movie "the bridges of to ko ri") After all it is a carrier plane by design (as the AD designator imply).
Man, I love the idea of Skyraider being modelled! It would open up so many cool scenarios.
Love this idea myself
I was thinking sky raiders would have been perfect for that last mission in this video. It was after all against what was essentially a NVPA column
Didn’t ED announce the skyraider was in development?
Favorite part so Far... "Tactics?" "You go first"
From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of AAA
Cap'll die in every battle,
in the air, hitting land, o'er sea.
One can only hope that when they finally have their "Why me?!" moment and are standing at the pearly gates (or gates of Hell, you do you), they hear Cap's disembodied voice from out of nowhere - "Bollocks! Respawn. Get another one!"
I get annoyed but then remember such incidents were common IRL
Lol😂👍
Here's an idea, a bit like gun game on CS, start with the oldest plane, then every kill you get you get the next plane and so on...
That missile that went by FireDad at 17:14 was perfect theater- missed it by a hair and still got the search radar
Scared the piss out of me. Filled my whole screen!
"We even took the telecommunication out!"😆
reminds me a bit of the movie The Final Countdown, where a 90s aircraft carrier goes back in time to 1941 just before the pearl harbour incident
As somebody that was born in Gravesend, attacking it from the air fulfils a childhood dream.
The AI in the F-15 maintaining 8G for minutes on end, lol.
These are my favorite type of videos from you guys
I came here to post the exact same words. The results are unpredictable and hilarious. Love seeing fast jets losing energy fights to prop planes.
Same. I love seeing mismatched technology
"Home for Schnapps and Pumpernickel"
With Schinken it's even a nice combination
I love Pumpernickel
Hello valued Grim Reapers
Hi
If I were an infantryman, i'd rather have an apache show up than a war bird
but i'd obviously rather have a war bird show up than nothing
Super Tucano stans feeling chuffed over the CAS results
+GrimReapersAtomic *Thanks for the demo.* The U. S. Navy and Marine Corps had a BULL of a lot o' missions for the Chance Vought F4U-7, Grumman F8F-4, Eastern/GM TBM-6 (prototyped as the Grumman TBF-6), Douglas AD-3, and Glenn L. Martin Co. PB2M-2. So the U. S. Air Force in the North American F-51K and Douglas B-26C.
"Re-spawn, get another one!" : ah yes, GR at their best.........
I would love to see you all in my fav of all WW2 planes, the P-38
Those low flights are AWESOME!
Judging from the outcome of this video, I would say that there actually is a place (even though limited) for airplanes like the Super Tucano - warbird performance with modern sensors and weaponry.
I would like to see a comparison where you have mission that today would be flown by something like an Apache but use WWII-Warbirds instead. They are faster but can not hover, their loadcapacity is compareble but i could imagine that running costs (excluding ammunition) are lower.
Realistically an unmanned super Tucano would have more value in a peer v peer environment
Judging from outcomes from flight Sims flown by amateurs with all weapons modelled with no reference to actual performance might not be the best way to buy kit. In a real operation you don't necessarily know where the SAM site is, it most likely is distributed around a larger area and the radars are sighted in such a way that there isn't large amounts of dead ground that can get you right to the site. Furthermore real sites will be situated to he multally supporting so they cover each others approaches.
Considering that even the role of the A-10 has changed dramatically due to the proliferation of manpads (ie. they very rarely go in low and slow nowadays) I'd say there isn't much call for something slower and less armoured. Running costs are always lower than the cost of replacing good pilots
Not to mention the fact that the A-10 historically had a pretty terrible track record, even when it most shined in desert storm.
In Nuclear Option, attempting to attack convoys with guns almost always ends poorly for me. I either get blown out of the sky by short-range SAMs and AAA, or I get torn apart by the convoy's .50s.
Loved the 25th BG recon Mossie (Watton) with the red tail in the final task. 😊
It's kind of surreal to see this in a videogame... I was just there at Westminster Abbey and walked around outside Parliament a few years back. Didn't get to see (or hear) much of Big Ben, though...it was covered with plastic and scaffolding for work. You could see a lot of this area pretty well from the top of the Eye.
My local warbird museum has fighters & strike aircraft from the P-40 to the F-111! So it's a good place to find a WWIII toy.
Got some good laughs on first run, that first missile was a guess who situation, loved the vid.
Agree with Matrix on Parliament- just please leave the Old Hall!
I think the overwhelming size of the attacks in ww2 could have made a difference. Say 100 to 200 fighters. They won’t have enough misses for example
AMAZING VIDEO!!!!
Love the video. One question, when will the P-38 Lighting be available in DCS?
Not that I know of.
@@grimreapers sadness. Would be a great addition.
13:58 I’m sure Air Force commanders sound like this in real life as well.
It was awesome to watch, sorry you had such a shitty flying day CAP! But you did get some work done!
Need to re do with a Human F-15 and shorad for the SA-10
It seems to me that warbirds could be a good choice to take into modern combat, in areas where they will not be at risk from modern aircraft. Essentially, the way helicopters are currently being used. They have advantages of being low cost and having a long loiter time over target. With modern upgrades, they would truly be dangerous.
You needed B-25 gunships with parafrags.
I wonder how the old birds would do with a make over? Something you can go to the shed but equipped with modern benefits
In a permissive environment? With the advent of turboprops, one would go for modifications such as Piper's Mustang-mod. It made sense then.
The US Military is upgrading an actual cropduster for support missions, because if the enemy can't touch it then it doesn't have to be impressive.
If enemy anti-air is nonexistent and their airforce can't do anything aggressive ,you could use WW1 aircraft if you wanted.
32:09 Cap looking at anything but the church
How about this for a twist: warbirds with an AWACS to tell them at least when a missile is out with evil intent and its vector.
Watching the take off or lack there off 😅 gives me hope 😂
At 13:59.... Was that the guy who went off to drink Schnapps?
Very impressive and great fun…would I want to try it ? not ideally in a war bird, but a skyraider or maybe a super tweet…..dcs really needs to make those or the f-4’s will get lonely.
There's a book I read way back, titled The Seventh Carrier. It falls right in line with this subject.
Would be fun to see this with a ME 262
Lovely, lovely Warbirds! 👍
Fun video, Gents!
The f-15 is missile load limited here. Try a F-15EX that carries more missiles.
I wonder how much of this is applicable to low performance drones operating in modern environments.
so ... where is SHOARDS to proteckt S300 ? In Greece they have combo with Tor M1 and guns for example
when you are doing your WW2 warbird scenarios have you considered the B25 Mitchell with the solid (not glass) nose, look at the firepower it has :-)
I believe the us navy seals use a prop plane for close support, super tucano, very similar to the ww2 birds.
How about WW2 fighters vs Drone swarm, see if they do better than modern fighters?
Cool
So the CAS in London is Roundheads vs Cavaliers?
I'd love to see this scenario with a selection of coin planes skyraiders, pucaras,tucanos, wolverines, from different eras but in the tasks set on this one ❤
Maybe av10s the underworld is your oyster
Fun!
a nice scenario for you to maybe do but you might need to scale it back a bit is China ( 2 aircraft carrier groups and rockets launched from land with land based jets aswell vs Taiwan/America (Taiwanese subs(maybe substitute for destroyers or something and 2 American Aircraft carrier groups with land based air defense with WW2 Land defense planes ) it is kind of a big war scenario over Taiwan but Realistic as it can be so while the servers can also handle the stress without too much lag
Congrats, guys. I loved this video; it was great fun to watch...! ❤❤❤
Maybe a squad od 70s clearing deployed gr1s in close support in this sought of scenario but got to go and reload at clearins - like the old model box lids
30 seconds in my guess is, "probably not very well."
Nice video but you also have to factor in the cost of planes and the cost of operating them, ww2 Mustang cost some 700$ price adjusted however modern tooling could offset that by more than half so you'd get something ~300k / plane and at end of ww2 US had some 60k? planes, picture them sending say 1/2 or ~30k on a single attack on modern day US with weapons that can engage modern planes ... I`d be very interested in simulation of that just for the sake of unicorns vs mealworms kinda thing.
You're nowhere near on costs. Go and look at what something mundane like a Beech Bonanza costs today - $925K
This is actually very nice example you have a plane that has a production rate of few dozens a year @ 900$k now scale the production rate to something like ~5k a year since we kinda need many and economics of scale will kick in.
So, I don 't currently play any flight sim, but I'm interested. I have a little bit of light aircraft flying experience and theory. I'm just really daunted by the huge amount of learning there would be involved. How do you find it learning all the specs of aircraft, missiles, bombs, ground defence etc (let alone all the controls of things like the A-10)
The cost of the peripherals is a bit scary too!
Any thoughts for a potential enthusiast?
They did a video within the last couple of months on recommended value configurations for newbs
I haven't played DCS for years. As it seems, the AI radar can still track through trees?
Is it possible that the F-15 is having trouble locking on to the slower, smaller planes?
Another video I missed.. now watched.
In a nuclear strike if an EMP took out the modern aircraft, the old birds will still work. 😁
Can someone plleeaaase fit a clipped wing Spitfire with sidewinders!!!
It should be pointed out that none of the major powers asked the question: 'What if some halfwit sent WW2-era aircraft against us?'. Because it was a stupid idea. If there was any chance of it happening, a very specific sequence of weapons would have been developed. Not a thing which you have taken into account.
Bolt on some AIM 92 ATAS and take a handheld GPS and in a warbird your golden 😅
And replace the heavy piston engine with a 3kshp turboprop.
Okay, so who's going to fly a lancaster 50' above the deck all the way there and body all the targets? :P
I had an interesting read the other day, Israel is upgrading Taiwanese f-5 with modern hardware and missiles. Maybe an easy mid for someone to make and check out
These videos are a lot of fun to watch. (seem painful to make though!) Perhaps it would be reasonable to scale down the defenses a bit (maybe half or 1/3 of normal) because warbirds are cheap and were always used in much larger numbers than they are today. For example, in the Battle of Britain the RAF had about 2,000 aircraft, whereas today the RAF has only a fraction of that number) Yes, 160 Eurofighters and F-35s are cool... but sheer numbers would be important over time they'd have to do ALL the roles done by the thousands of RAF aircraft. They can't be everywhere at once, and have fewer bases with less ammo stored. It'd be realistically at least 10-1. In something small like DCS (without killing a server), say maybe 12 Eurofighters and 4 F-35 vs 250 Luftwaffe warbirds?
And to be fair, even the A-10 of the same 1980s vintage (or even modern helicopters) would have been hard pressed to do better against SAMs either. Without anti-radiation missiles and/or jamming EVERYTHING gets chewed up by them.
While true, the RAF did have greater numbers in WWII than today, those aircraft were split among 5 (I think) different sectors. So they had limited numbers for any one mission.
So, how do you think a model T would do at indy today? Silly
If...when you get hit, climb out on the wing and fire your 45 sidearm at the purple bugger!!
Jack ~'()'~
I'm sorry, "Cap," but the 1st missile "off" strikes you in that P-51 instead of that bomber - that even surprised me...! What a bummer, first thing when the action began in this video...! 😢
No mosquito? WOW nothing like hobbling the WWII side by taking away the fastest stealthiest and most versatile fighter/bomber of the war.
OK they did take mosquitos even though he said they were all metalic.
No Tucano model in DCS?
Yeh we got it.
I have an aircraft combat strategy wargame/board game for sale.
Thought be good place to ask here
I'm not surprised, what surprises me is the lack of investment in cheap turboprop aircraft. Once your aircraft are cheaper than their missiles it doesn't matter how effective they are any longer. Add some countermeasures and you're golden. Some nations like I believe brazil have embraced it, but instead the focus for 1st world nations is drones and burning money. It isn't an either-or situation.
Obviously counter cheap AAA would be a response.
Though, I didn't anticipate 6 of you to be successful in random aircraft and no meaningful plan. I'd expect 12 or more to be needed...
More than this, though, wooden and carbon fibre low radar aircraft aren't more expensive using modern principles and materials.
Effectively 100-1,000 people are killed by poverty for each billion pound aircraft lost, so the loss of pilots isn't such a big deal. Combat aircraft only need to cost as much as a car.
Does the AI "understand" what it's fighting against? I assume modern fighter jet AI is programmed to treat adversaries as if they were also modern fighter jets, so I wonder if the huge performance mismatch caused the strange combat behavior. I'd like to see you all try WWI aircraft against modern SAMs. My guess is that you'd be too slow for the algorithm to even see you as a threat.
I does not understand. It just knows it's a target. That's why it gets confused.
Hey, why are you not using Mosquitos?!
There were always two Mossies in the flight
@@daszieher I stand corrected. I did see them.
@@gofoats ❤️
but this is not a fair fight
WWII planes should also have modern avionics
(cockpit like F15) and modern missiles, at least two
And then descend the duel to 5000 feet and slow down to 160 knots
let's see the duel then
Badly. Edit: Actually, way more effective than I'd have thought.
It’s a GREAT DAY!
I'd still love to see warbirds modded to carry IR missiles (if feasible in game; should be theoretically possible IRL if one cared to do it) vs modern fighters stripped down to IR missiles and guns. Or, failing that, a Super Tucano or similar modded to reflect warbird performance and handling vs the same.
The Tucano and the Pucara, and OV-10 among others would be able to use them and are props (all community mods though). In a/c we HAVE.... well, it wouldn't be TOO far off to consider the F-86, MB-339 and C-101 as decent candidates because they are all either 1940s designs or of comparable performance. The MB-339 or C-101 are arguably less maneuverable or as fast as say an Me-262 so it's not like they'd be out of place.
Yeah, a human instead of AI should work better for the air superiority....
Idk, ask the cesta drone that just kamikazed the Russian drone factory😅
Woop, woop!
Topical ... topical ... since 2016.
North Korean Air Force is taking notes
1x fratricide
you know we could upgrade thse mustangs to use jetfuel powered terbine intrenal combustion engine and elctrcal hibrid terboprop engine with recharcable batterys. then we turn them into a UAV. give them some multifrescly electoopic, inferead ir sensors, and laser tagerting and tracking sistem. then give them extrnal wing mution hardponts and wing internal wapon gun pod monuts. these can have like manpad stingers/javlein missle pods, then have like 6 50mm bushwacker intrenal gimbled airming cablabe wing gunpod guns,the aqblyt to have ahrdponts with some SDB II racks, and maybie one or two AGM-158C that can be combalte to the wing hardponts too as well. that would be very very very scary and realy cheap but can be very dangorus with very lagre numbers for usa drone swarms to be used as a usa ecrot and strake uav force mutlipiaer. i called thsie new uav mustangs bacly helliions. baclt horses from bacly hell.
XD #UrinOfDeath
fun video. i didnt understand what took out the planes in london. otherwise, your question of whether warbirds would be "good" in modern war? it depends on the conflict. they probably would have been fine in afghanistan and iraq (insurgency). they had almost no AA capability. in some cases, they might have been better than F-15's or F/A-18E's (to name two) - because they are less costly to fly and can fly slower and thus see their targets easier. but in against anyone with sufficient SAMs they probably wouldnt work - as you note because where all of the SAMs and AAA are located wouldn't be known and wouldn't necessarily be only in a small area, so these aircraft would have to get to their targets and out again.
I believe CAP stalled the I-16 which has a nasty snap-roll tendency if you pull back on the stick too hard.
This is different
Very badly. Notice the complete lack of navigational aids on all of them. How were you planning them to get to the site? Anything launching them within reasonable range would be murdered.
When Brexiteers try to attack the EU for all the problems after Brexit! A metaphor!
it would be more useful if any of you were good at flying fighter planes. Why dont you do what police and military do and use compass directions? your instructions are so vague. "The tree by the church."
Ukrainian aircraft vs Russian aircraft be like:
Two A-50s and all the SU-34s shot down would beg to differ
@@bsmith9149 I meant to say “Most modern Russian fighter vs Oldest Ukrainian plane”.