I think its really important to consider 3D files the same way you'd think of physical minis. If you don't get around to printing and painting them, they're worthless. Buy 1 set of files, print them, paint them repeat. Don't get caught up in fomo or big sales, you'll likely save more money in the long run, even if you miss out on a few deals.
There's a huge amount of quality STLs you can get just for free. The vast majority of the files I've collected were free. And of the rest, most came in big batches for relatively cheap from Patreons.
@@Perserra This is really important and a good point - there is a difference between 1) suporting a creator on Patreon because, hey thats cool for $5/10 a month and you get bonus files, and 2) buying into a Tribe or Kickstarter for for as many minis as possible because thats the broken/pushed GW army of the month. You can probably get the stuff for 2) on Thingiverse/Cults for cheap, and you don't need to buy a Chimera or Leman Russ Proxy.
For those who do not wish to 3D print. One Page Rules can be used with whatever miniatures you have available. You can also use standees, paper tokens, or anything else to play their games. The rules are free. The Army books are free.
Here is my trick, I won't let myself buy any more models until the ones I have are all printed AND painted. It really slows down on the impulse purchases lol
Decent breakdown, missing some of the PPE and cleaning costs. People really underestimate some of the up front and ongoing costs to 3d printing every time they parrot "Just print your minis". Also the time and space investment
My mars 3 pro was 2nd hand from ebay, £120, I use SUNLU ABS like resin £15, I use a dust mask, £2, uv curing torch, £6 box of gloves, £5 for 100, 5l bottle of alcahol, £10, lasted over a year already, just used free files, as loads are around, my first prints was 3 Wraithknights and some guardians, warp spiders and a Farseer from the first bottle of resin, enought to do a 2000 point army, which would have cost over £500, so already saved around £350, I have since printed out a 2000 point ork and imperial guard army, varying cost of resin used betweed £15 and £30 per 2000 point army, and still using the same alcahol,gloves and mask.
I've been 3d printing for about 5 years now. I started just so I can make my own "model kits and toys"! I've also been a patreon of OPR for just under 3 years now. I still have never played a wargame. I signed up because of their Mummified Undead. Another plus is you can make the models any size you want. Large display pieces and such. I just like to paint. I started off with apple barrel paint but moved on to the "Slap Chop" technique with speed paints. While I'm the last person to tell someone they spent too much... I would say if you keep spending that much per month, (which i doubt you will) then yes! However, it does sound like you have enough different armies to last for a while.
I started printing recently, using FDM because I didn't have a good place to setup a resin printer, and all in it cost me a bit under $900. Printer, worktable, enclosure, tools, PPE, a ventilation solution, several spools of PLA, dehydrator, extra nozzles and bits, a lot of great STLs, and the electric bill to run it all With that I am in the process of printing 6 different armies, maybe 7, and several entire tables of terrain in different styles. I can print a bloodthirster to put GW to shame for about $8-$12 between materials and electric usage (which is more than half that cost). It doesn't take long to make the money back, and now I have a new facet to my hobby and no worries about the minis selling out or getting massive price hikes all the time. The pile of shame also doesn't grow. I can't say the same about the Files of Shame though
I print FDM minis too and while I can make stuff that's good enough for me to put on the table and play games with, I wouldn't say anything I print puts GW to shame, not even close to it. Also I've pretty much given up on printing whole armies and am just doing skirmish stuff for now because every single model that wasn't made specifically for FDM (which is almost all of them) is it's own puzzle to solve and takes a lot of time figuring out where to chop it into printable bits, and then takes even longer to assemble because most of the time there is no completely support free solution to that puzzle and FDM supports leave you with a lot of clean up knife work to do. Teach me your secrets.
@@Sjonegaard The bloodthirster in particular does well since it's already in parts from the designer, but I just put in hours of knife work and nipper snipping and fiddling with slicing and positioning and re-slicing to get supports where I want them so any leftover scars won't be an issue. Then print with a 0.2mm nozzle in 0.04mm layers for many many hours (not too bad with a higher speed Klipper firmware printer). I actually printed it at 0.08mm layers for speed so the layers are more visible and I didn't bother with the prime-sand-repeat smoothing as I was happy enough as is for a table-top piece. I imagine I'll be putting in the extra effort whenever I get around to trying figure painting. But just being able to pick from such a vast array of STL designs means I can about always find something I like the looks of better than official models. For the most part, minis on FDM remind me a lot of working with old metal cast minis. Always some flashing to clean or a gap to fill or other imperfection to work around and maybe use a touch of putty here and there. But I've done that for decades and now the mini costs less than a dollar and I can print it whenever I'm ready to work on the project instead of having a closet overflowing with kits for projects that I haven't gotten to yet but they were on sale at the time or limited availability or whatever the case. I'm also learning to kitbash in cura a bit which is opening up some interesting possibilities to just print a model already modified instead of needing to physically convert it by hand.
But that $200 a month will actually decrease. The cost of the printer starts to spread over more and more months. Plus you now have enough models to keep you busy for a while especially if you just stick with the patreon prints moving forward.
Put a note in your diary to do a follow up to this when you've been printing for a year. Assuming you don't buy another printer and you slow down a little with the file purchases, you might have a monthly cost that you don't feel like you need to hide from your -fiancé- wife. BTW, congratulations. 💐💐💐
There are a lot of cheaper and more niche, smaller studios that create wonderful STLs too. Basicly - everyone can find something for himself. Tbh I don't like OPR minis so I only use their rules and go with different models from different companies.
This really illustrates the real danger of printing, which is becoming a whale for STLs! If you have an addictive personality (and many gamers do) before you know it you'll be swimming in thousands of files for things you have no intention on printing and would never have bought in a store, because your printer brain was telling you "it doesn't matter wjat it is, if you get it as a file its a bargain!" Definitely set a fixed monthly budget before you get going or you'll be in the same danger as anyone who blows their life savings on in game loot boxes. The purchase dopamine makes humans reeeeaaaallly dumb.
Also consider that the printer itself has a huge up front cost, but then it serves you for years. I also started doing prints for fiends into DnD or Warhammer and the printer has paid for itself many times now and also I can cover the upkeep costs from there.
A fairer comparison would be to consider the GW price for models you have actually printed. Not all the models you COULD print. The comparison still strongly favors 3D printing. After two years subscribing to OPR, I will never print everything in my hard drive of shame 😋
I guess the biggest issue to consider is money vs time. The time to print all the STLs you bought is immense. Days and days if not months off your life. And that’s if they all print perfectly first time. That doesn’t even include cleaning time or the potential health effects of resin. Now I’m not disagreeing with your assessment as GW prices are robbery but….but… if you value time with your kids more than sitting in a toxic room for hours printing models - then I still end up buying GW because of speed. Then use those with OPR. After all an uprinted stl is just a file. Not a mini.
I hear you. And as a dad I’m absolutely prioritizing my times with my kiddos! That’s why I usually start prints and night and wake up to whatever happened 😂 I don’t babysit my printer.
the printers are a 1 time purchase, unless you feel the need to turn it into a hobby and constantly upgrade your equipment. but i have found my 3d printers make more than game stuff now. but i also print my table my own terrain.
Looking over your costs... You don't have a washing and final curing station? How much in IPA for washing? What was the cost of the respirator masks (and replacement filters) and gloves? Even if you don't have a washing and curing station, you still need some sort of station for washing. Going DIY, you can probably use dollar store basins and put the models outside in the sun for the final cure after washing. Also throw in the cost of electricity to run the 3D printers. Granted, all these costs don't add up to much, but they are real (and reoccurring for the consumables) costs. Even with those extra costs that you didn't cover for this video, you are still way below the cost from GW.
It's definitely the way to go, the only thing left is for regular tournaments or local game stores being okay with the figures you are using. It sounds like you most likely have the space and other friends with the area to play with printed models. I've been printing since 2019, I have slightly more regular models than printed models, but it's definitely saved me a lot, and it's also allowed me to print things for my friends. Like you said you can print as many as you want. It's definitely worth it and you will most likely make back the cost of the printer and materials in value off of one bottle of resin, maybe two. And if you play multiple game systems that are miniatures agnostic then 3d printing kicks in the door and prints everything that you need with a little bit of searching. I've printed off D&D figures for my friends, and fan art statues, it's fun.
The network effect is a thing. GW keeps driving away their previous customers, thinking nothing of it because they think they can always get new ones. But 3D printing gives people the power to make their own minis, and people like One Page Rules provide both cheap minis and free rules. Once all those discarded GW customers reach a critical mass using a different ruleset, it's game over for GW.
@@Perserra 3d printing is a major gamechanger. I Printed a small 1000 point army i dont like after a game or 2? no problem, i can just give them away to somebody who is interested to try the game but doesnt want to spend 500€ on a starter army. i already good a couple of people into playing that would normaly never have started.
buying the files for the included supports are great. but you can really save by finding all the free ones out there and just supporting yourself. takes some extra time but moneys money. now if its something like i know im gonna need 30 of these guys at the very least, ill buy the supported ones cause then you know they work and you wont bee dropping 10$ on failed prints.
You did not add in the cost of the respirators, filters, air cleaner, VOC meter, ventilation, gloves, IPA, etc., etc., etc. Time is also a HUGE factor. Is STL slicing, supporting, etc., plus printing and cleaning time more or less than assembling the minis?
The printing time should not be compared to the building time of plastic models, you don't need to sit next to your printer to watch it print. I'm in my living room doing other stuff while my printer is busy printing dwarves (right now).
I went through this exact thing when I first started. My mortgage increased so I had to look at my budgets and realised I had spent £4000 on print files in a year. I deleted my patreon account shortly after because I was fighting the FOMO but have found a new love of looking through my mmf library to see what crazy proxys I can find for things. Turns out I have enough crazy tentacle monsters to make a full Mind flayer army for example which I found in the OPR community lists.
Its automatically cheaper to print vs buying from GW. Only way its more expensive is if you make poor decisions on resin - printer - and your designs unless you buy designs and most dont check to see if other peoples files have good compatibility.
Good video! Would have been nice to know how many minis you actually did print in those five months. It's a simple calculation: $1007/x minis = cost per mini. I'm curious why you didn't add a washing and a curing station and omitted the costs for tools, masks and gloves? I think 3D printing is great when you have the ventilated space and want to print an army. If you only need a few models for a skirmish game it's still less expensive to buy, even from Games Workshop. ;-) Last question: Did you print all the files you bought at least once?
A follow up video is in order! I’m definitely going to print everything I’ve paid for. As for washing and such, I had the masks and gloves already. Homeownership and all that. I imagine my cost for curing is about $50. Two cans of acetone and some plastic storage containers to dip stuff in.
3D printing has a Fixed upfront cost and a consumable cost. If you own and assemble plastic miniatures, you already have tools that have a fixed cost and consumables such as replacement X-acto blades. No one throws away an x-acto knife and a pair of nippers on one use, that cost is spread across the many dozens if not hundreds of miniatures you assemble using those tools. A 3D printer is a tool and the cost ends up being spread out across the hundreds if not thousands of miniatures you print with it.
Basic Fixed / upfront cost for 3D printing 3D printer $150 - $400 on average. The higher cost 3D printers have more bells and whistles. The higher cost 3D printers can also have a higher print volume. What is print volume: a small 3D printer you might only be able to fit a squad of 5 miniatures on it vs a larger 3D printer where you can fit a squad of 20+ miniatures per print run. Consumables: paper towels, gloves, liquid resin. Just like assembling and painting a miniature you have fixed costs and consumables. Fixed cost is that x-acto blade holder. Consumable is that x-acto knife blade that you replace when it gets dull. Fixed cost: nippers for cutting sprues. Consumables: paint brushes, paint and paper towels, water.
I agree with your video don't get me wrong, but these files only start to become comparatively cheaper if you actually printed and used them all. It'd be interesting to know how much of those hundreds of paid model files you have as physical models, and how many you actually printed multiple of. Otherwise it's a kind of digital pile of shame if you will, which is IMO another consideration if someone is thinking about 3D printing.
Keep in mind - OPR will keep sending you new armies.... So your investment of $10 a month will keep you busy even after you finish your current armies. My wife and I spend *mumble* on Patreons each month, there is a lot of value for small increments.
The easy problem that I could see would be a "digital pile of shame." I for one don't want to pay for things I'm never going to use. So when I see amazing kickstarters out there and I think. Oh I'd love to have that entire army. But then I already look at what I have that isn't painted I think to myself that I shouldn't buy that army. But that's just my though.I enjoyed the video. Have a great day.
A couple critiques: -You didn't add in costs for power and safety equipment -Your math assumes no bad prints -Your math assumes you will print every stl you have -You bought all the 3D printing on discount but took all GW prices without looking for retailers with discount Not saying it would be higher that GW with this, but it would be more accurate
Hmm. Fair points. That bottle is really huge honestly and can handle some misfires 😂 I already had the mask and my machine came with gloves and such so that got built in I suppose. And if you got everything at a 15% discount from Amazon you’re still at $4250 or there about!
Hey, remember when people said that 3D printing was never going to be a viable alternative to buying GW plastic because of cost, details and time..? Yeah I think that prediction is now effectively dead in the water. I'm completely flabbergasted at GW's arrogance and lack of foresight. One thing is that they didn't predict how easy and quick 3D printing would become for miniatures, fair enough, but the fact is that they already do all their sculpting via 3D modeling now anyway, so there is literally no excuse for them not to do alternative poses, chapter/subfaction specific models and then sell them as STL's. They can't control the spread and they can't limit the amount of prints, they might as well bite that bullet, because the amount of money that people will GLADLY hand over for files is evident, people are just fine paying for digital things and either they participate and get a ton of revenue for comparatively very little work (only modeling needed, don't need to make molds, print cardboard and ship the product) or they don't, they get nothing, people flock everywhere else and they just... lose. Make it make sense to me. Nice video, I think you clearly illustrate how GW is not worth it anymore. The bonus aspect is that I can go to someone like you, who'd be willing to sell their time to print for me, so I don't have to and it'd still be cheaper and in many cases better. That's not to speak of all the non-regular files with more accurate depictions that are available and traded between people.
Hey bud :-) good video. IMO the true cost of 3D printing is saving more money :-P I got my printer in 2020 Mars 3 got it on pre order was little over 250 Euro then another 100 for wash and cure station, the resin I get on deals at the time 500ml bottles of ABS like Resin cost me 15 euro or less cant rememebr at the time. Took me a couple of hours to get my settings done (still use the same settings to this day) I print at .03 layer level takes a little longer but the quality jump is worth it. I spend 50 something Euro a month on Patreon stuff (not just mini stuff) I have the same methylated spirits (easy to clean it just put it in a container and put in the cure machine and filter it out perfect to go again. My last big army was a Korps army from The Makers Cult (they are one of my favourite creators) lots of guys 3 artilary pieces, 3 tanks and one of them being very big and one flamer unit on top of those 3 tanks. Each tank print cost including supports was between 4-8 euro because size ha If you want some good creators I can point you towards some badass creators bigger and smaller who do amazing work, if not no worries :-) (several of them I like also do alot of kits as well as big units and vehices patreons as well all very good priced like OPR or cheaper)
@@AcceptablyEPIC Oh I actually gave several but it appears that UA-cam didnt like it ha but some great ones I have currently are The Makers Cult, DakkaDakka Store, Red Pilgrim Miniatures and Bestiarum Miniatures. These are my go to guys. I had Station Forge, Titan Forge. They are great. So is Den of imagination, GHAMAK and Solwyte Studio.
Fumes from Resin is heavily overblown, if you use normal resin, yes the fumes are pretty bad, but Elegoo does have rechargeable activated carbon filters that sit at the back of the machine. The main point is WATER WASHABLE resin has far fewer fumes (aka it's not as smelly). I have printed for 4 years with resin as well as FDM, and while resin wasn't my most favorite of printing due to the extra post processing, what came out is amazing. There is "8k" water washable resin, that is designed for the high def "12k and 16k" printers as the polymers are smaller and allow for crisper details. Again water washable resin is the way to go, far less to worry about, and you don't need IPA to clean your models, saving you big money in the long run. Currently there is the Elegoo Saturn 4 Ultra on the market (just came out and are shipping now), its got a lot of great modern features that new resin printers that have advanced in recent years. The bundle with the Wash and Cure station is $580, so you get the printer and the ability to wash the models and cure them for a damn good price.
@@AcceptablyEPIC i started with water washable. its nice not having to deal with IPA but the stuff i had was a bit more brittle, things broke from time to time. im using sunlu abs like now and that stuff is a tank
@@TheCarlopare The water washable I have used. Sunlu's water washable was nice, and Elegoo's own water washable. I have liked Elegoos stuff better. Do note that resin can be brittle from overcuring as well. I never had brittle problems with water washable resin, if the resin is old (over a year) from being opened it can get brittle as the polymers brake down. Never cared to try ABS like stuff as I have FDM printers that...print actual ABS, well really its better brother, ASA.
You kinda went overboard spending US$1k in 5 months. I bought a printer and curing station together for about $400, I buy 1 bottle of resin a month for about $40, and I spend maybe $25/month on Patreons and buying STLs. So I've spent less than US$1.2k in a whole year, and my hobby room is literally overflowing with printed minis of all kinds.
I don't own a printer. So my comparisons focus what I can buy. I find GW pretty competitive when it comes to troups kits (cheaper than buying printed miniatures off of etsy, or smaller miniatures companies) but that completely goes out the window when it comes to characters.
Costs of paints and painting supplies or are all your armies naked? I assume this would be more expensive for 3D prints because you have more minis. Any cost in venting and furniture for setting up the garage space?
I made shelves from old lumber to hold the printer. And the paint I buy is not model paint. I use craft paint and am happy with my results. But I suppose those are things I’d buy with GW models too!
put mine in my shed, got an fdm and resin, bambu a1 mini $230, mars 4 $190, filament $20, resin $20. for comparison 55pts of catachans are $35, Chimera $60. x6 of each is not an army, not even 1k pts! and costs more than the 2 printers and filament/resin combined. im halfway through my $20 filament roll, and ive printed 2 hellhounds and 2 chimeras, with test prints that got tossed added in.
@@AcceptablyEPIC it's actually not that hard to do, you do need to fiddle a bit with some things to get it to work from one FDM printer to the other, but as a general rule 60-80% infill is better than 100%, under some conditions for some figures that are spindlier, you can get better results by going as low as 50%, but you shouldn't go lower. A good rule of thumb is that you want your outer wall thickness about double the thickness of your nozzle size. Beyond that it's kind of printer and software dependent. There's videos for both higher and lower end printers and profiles available for both to get good quality. Though when I say good quality I don't mean resin quality. Resin is the king of detail, but for most people too much detail can be its own problem. I like a little more detail than most so I trick my Ender into treating every layer like it's the top layer and it gives me good enough quality to satisfy me, which is a bit more than most would want.
@@AcceptablyEPIC understanding that it's FDM is key though, so expecting resin level of detail is pointless. But you can do enough detail to make a reasonably good looking terminator assault squad that you won't be ashamed to show to others. I say that cause that's my most printed model set. 🤣
As an old guy coming back to the hobby I am leaning more and more to adding 3d printing to my repertoire. At 200 per month at the age I estimate you to be you'd have about 400,000 in your retirement nest egg. Now if you have to feed your hobby and your retirement, half of that would net you about 175,000 at retirement and you have 1000's of models. HAHA!
Soooo... no ABS or tough resin able to handle tabletop manipulation without breaking like that brittle low cost standard resin ? No Isopropyl alcohol for cleaning your prints ? No UV curing station or equipment ? No ultrasonic cleaner either ? No cost for filter cartridges for that mask and disposable gloves ? Because that's the real cost of 3D printing, not Patreon supplementary subscriptions and MMF impulse buys.
Depends. I start prints at night and clean them up in the morning. I think I spend less time handling models than if I were to glue them together. A large portion come out all ready to put on a base!
@@AcceptablyEPIC My favorite part of modeling is gluing them together though! Working with plastic is fun. Kitbashing and reposing is fun. While I could probably enjoy getting into designing sculpts that's a big time commitment to learn to do well and then I'd have less time to model paint and play...
lose a shit ton of money buying a broken 3d printer from a crooked hobby shop with no refund policy. You might as well spend the $300+ on a Official GW army.
To be honest, having been in 3d printing for several years, I would never buy a used one. A new one is cheap enough and you know it will work and have a warranty. Especially with older 3d printers can be finicky and are a hobby(“job”) just to keep them running consistently
You are not buying an army for anywhere near $300 $35 for 55pts of catachans, $60 for a chimera at 70 pts x6 = $570 for 750 pts, not even 1kpts, no leader, and old ugly "cheap" sculpts
@@timrusk1916 Used Resin is not a good idea. replacing the screen makes no sense, they often have leaks, etc. FDM on the other hand depends on the printer and the price. there are plenty of good fdm printer on the market from people who started during covid and stopped after. those are often barely used and easy to fix.
Okay, I have notes. This is going to be long, brace yourself. I appreciate your effort to be inclusive on the dollar costs incurred. I do think you're putting an overly positive spin on certain aspects, however. First, you continually refer to your *files* as *miniatures.* But they're not. Until you have spent the time and the resin, they're just files. So it is, on one level, deceptive to say "I've spent 355$ to get all these miniatures." Granted that you could, now that you have the files, increase the total number of literal miniatures to whatever you wanted, this phrasing still implies a level of instantaneous production that isn't true. Second: you gloss over the way the subscriptions lose value if one isn't interested in all or part of that months offerings. To be sure, this is very personal and you made it clear that this video is about your own spending and value received, but it would have been nice if you'd acknowledged the weakness of the subscription model as you went past. Third: your final cost comparison is completely invalid. You ruined it by including a comparison of the cost of GW's games to that of OPR's games in the numbers, and that has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of acquiring the minis. I can spend the time and effort to print minis and then play using 40K's rules (with my friends, of course, the entire scenario collapses if the goal is to play in official GW events) or I can spend the money to buy GW minis and then play using OPR rules. The cost of the rulebooks has NOTHING to do with this discussion and the inclusion of it is a major contributor to why this video seems, to me, less like information and more like propaganda. There are other problems with the cost comparison. On the one hand, you are including real-world numbers by only listing the money you've actually spent over the last five months. On the other hand, you are using worst-case theoretical numbers by using the full retail price on GW's website. Very few people actually pay that price; most independent stores offer a discount of between 10 and 20% off nominal retail. Moreover, your "cost of resin" is misleading. You have listed the amount you actually spent on resin, but provided no information about how many actual physical miniatures that resin has produced. To legitimately compare the costs of printing and purchasing, you need to calculate how much you would spend on resin to produce the same number of physical miniatures. As it is, we viewers have received no useful information about how much we'd spend on materials to get a particular result. The result, then, is that your "price comparison" is absolutely meaningless and collapses into a pure emotional argument rather than a useful examination of the differences between printing and purchasing miniatures. And this is extremely frustrating, because you *could* have easily produced a meaningful comparison by gathering up all the minis you've *actually printed* and estimating the cost of the resin (and electricity and spare parts) needed to produce them, adding in the cost of the printer and the cost of the relevant STLs, and comparing *that* number to what it would take to buy the equivalent GW models. Even if you properly priced the GW models by including the 10 to15% discount most people will get via an independent gaming store, the dollar values would almost certainly land squarely in favour of printing. This could have been such a valuable video - and instead it's just a puff piece that boils down to "I like printing and I don't like GW." But I think the big problem is that you, explicitly, glossed over the time and learning/frustration costs. I'm active in the R2-D2 builder's club, and in the last few years 3D printing has become a very popular tool for building full-size replicas of Artoo. That's fine, but every couple of months we get a new builder who has decided they want to 3D print their droid and knows nothing about how it works. Some of those do listen to our advice, but some just dive in and then experience massive levels of frustration because instead of spending their time building their droid they're spending it learning how to use the 3D printer. And this is just as true of gaming miniatures. 3D printing your minis instead of buying them from GW is a textbook example of how one can save time by spending money or save money by spending time, and the fact they one is making this exchange is fundamental to the decision. Of course every individual has their own personal exchange rate on how much money their time is worth, so it would be difficult to reach a nice final number about the relative cost. But the fact remains: if one chooses to move to 3D printing their own miniatures, there is a major upfront investment in both money AND TIME that *must* be spent before one has anything at all. I am, of course, just like you neglecting the money cost of all the wasted material created as one learns to use the printer. I don't have the experience with SLA to accurately predict that; with FDM, I would pin it at one to two kg of filament for an easy-to-use machine like Bambu and three to five kg for a cheap machine like an Ender 3. This cost is not trivial, but is also hard to calculate. Still, it should have been mentioned. (I acknowledge that any resin you used learning to use the machine is included in the dollar amount you've used here, because that's the cost of *all* your resin; my point is that not all of that money was actually spent on miniatures because some of it was spent on learning how, and that distinction should not have been smoothed over.) In my opinion, then, you've both chosen to make an unequal comparison of the dollar costs whilst at the same time you've glossed over a key part of the set-up costs of 3D printing. By doing so, you have seriously reduced the value of this video as a tool for anyone trying to decide between buying commercially produced minis or printing their own. I feel that the stated goal of this video is to help the viewer make a decision about what method of getting minis is best for them - but the actual result is some enthusiastic cheerleading for "print-your-own" that's not all that useful for the neophyte. To end on a high note: I did very much enjoy the style of the video; your pieces to camera are well done, the narration is clear and the audio is good. There's reasonable production value in this video and that's not true of most people on UA-cam. Finally, you did make me laugh several times (though I expect the funniest part was unintentional, because "two thousand millilitres" is absolutely hilarious). Anyway, I hope this lengthy missive comes across as a genuine critique. It's not meant to be a personal attack or to accuse you of anything, but rather to convey my impressions of the video and my concerns over the content. I hope this allows you to compare what you hoped to accomplish with how the final result is perceived, and use that information to refine your future videos. Thanks!
I read everywhere! I appreciate the insight and you taking the time to write them! I’m considering doing a follow up video on what I actually have printed. Because let’s be real, you are absolutely right in that if I only own the files and don’t print them minis, it doesn’t make sense. But I’ve printed a heck ton of minis and painted a fair few. Something I hope to highlight and a video next week!
I think the cost should include the gloves, filters, and everything. Because you had to buy that too. Pretty cool though. But, you've spent more in the last 5 months 3d printing than I have in the last 2 years buying from GW. Anyway, I support Games Workshop because I love Warhammer.
@@AcceptablyEPIC Also resin goes bad if you don't use it. For me every time I wanted to print something it would fail without long exposure or perfect weather, and I'd probably need new resin. It was just way more hassle than it was worth not to mention the safety concerns of storing according to the safety data and time it takes to print and post process and haz disposal. I'm sure there is some idiot washing his resin down the sink somewhere
I think its really important to consider 3D files the same way you'd think of physical minis. If you don't get around to printing and painting them, they're worthless. Buy 1 set of files, print them, paint them repeat. Don't get caught up in fomo or big sales, you'll likely save more money in the long run, even if you miss out on a few deals.
There's a huge amount of quality STLs you can get just for free. The vast majority of the files I've collected were free. And of the rest, most came in big batches for relatively cheap from Patreons.
@@Perserra This is really important and a good point - there is a difference between 1) suporting a creator on Patreon because, hey thats cool for $5/10 a month and you get bonus files, and 2) buying into a Tribe or Kickstarter for for as many minis as possible because thats the broken/pushed GW army of the month. You can probably get the stuff for 2) on Thingiverse/Cults for cheap, and you don't need to buy a Chimera or Leman Russ Proxy.
For those who do not wish to 3D print.
One Page Rules can be used with whatever miniatures you have available.
You can also use standees, paper tokens, or anything else to play their games.
The rules are free.
The Army books are free.
So much free! 🆓
Here is my trick, I won't let myself buy any more models until the ones I have are all printed AND painted. It really slows down on the impulse purchases lol
Definitely need something to slow me down! 😂
Who would have guessed its cheaper when you don't have to pay for things like staff, taxes and other overheads. What a shock.
It makes sense! But also it feels GW has been going in wildly unsustainable direction 🤷🏻♂️
Decent breakdown, missing some of the PPE and cleaning costs. People really underestimate some of the up front and ongoing costs to 3d printing every time they parrot "Just print your minis". Also the time and space investment
Space matters! I have a garage 😂
My mars 3 pro was 2nd hand from ebay, £120, I use SUNLU ABS like resin £15, I use a dust mask, £2, uv curing torch, £6 box of gloves, £5 for 100, 5l bottle of alcahol, £10, lasted over a year already, just used free files, as loads are around, my first prints was 3 Wraithknights and some guardians, warp spiders and a Farseer from the first bottle of resin, enought to do a 2000 point army, which would have cost over £500, so already saved around £350, I have since printed out a 2000 point ork and imperial guard army, varying cost of resin used betweed £15 and £30 per 2000 point army, and still using the same alcahol,gloves and mask.
Like a pro 😎😎😎
Saving 80-90% on getting a massive grey pile of shame is definitely not nothing.
You'll never run out of models to buy paint and base decorations for.
I definitely have more than I can paint for now!
The Saturn 3 is a solid choice.
We have a Saturn 2, and have been quite happy with it.
Big fan of the 3!
He looks like half of That High Couple.
He does!? 😂
I've been 3d printing for about 5 years now. I started just so I can make my own "model kits and toys"! I've also been a patreon of OPR for just under 3 years now. I still have never played a wargame. I signed up because of their Mummified Undead. Another plus is you can make the models any size you want. Large display pieces and such. I just like to paint. I started off with apple barrel paint but moved on to the "Slap Chop" technique with speed paints. While I'm the last person to tell someone they spent too much... I would say if you keep spending that much per month, (which i doubt you will) then yes! However, it does sound like you have enough different armies to last for a while.
Oh. Trust me. This would be unsustainable. 😂 I’m pulling back spending a ton. Got way too excited 😅
I started printing recently, using FDM because I didn't have a good place to setup a resin printer, and all in it cost me a bit under $900.
Printer, worktable, enclosure, tools, PPE, a ventilation solution, several spools of PLA, dehydrator, extra nozzles and bits, a lot of great STLs, and the electric bill to run it all
With that I am in the process of printing 6 different armies, maybe 7, and several entire tables of terrain in different styles. I can print a bloodthirster to put GW to shame for about $8-$12 between materials and electric usage (which is more than half that cost). It doesn't take long to make the money back, and now I have a new facet to my hobby and no worries about the minis selling out or getting massive price hikes all the time. The pile of shame also doesn't grow. I can't say the same about the Files of Shame though
Library. We call that really big folder a library. 😅
"Files of shame" is a genius pun lmao
My wife prefers the term 'library' to 'piles of shame'. :P
I print FDM minis too and while I can make stuff that's good enough for me to put on the table and play games with, I wouldn't say anything I print puts GW to shame, not even close to it.
Also I've pretty much given up on printing whole armies and am just doing skirmish stuff for now because every single model that wasn't made specifically for FDM (which is almost all of them) is it's own puzzle to solve and takes a lot of time figuring out where to chop it into printable bits, and then takes even longer to assemble because most of the time there is no completely support free solution to that puzzle and FDM supports leave you with a lot of clean up knife work to do.
Teach me your secrets.
@@Sjonegaard The bloodthirster in particular does well since it's already in parts from the designer, but I just put in hours of knife work and nipper snipping and fiddling with slicing and positioning and re-slicing to get supports where I want them so any leftover scars won't be an issue. Then print with a 0.2mm nozzle in 0.04mm layers for many many hours (not too bad with a higher speed Klipper firmware printer). I actually printed it at 0.08mm layers for speed so the layers are more visible and I didn't bother with the prime-sand-repeat smoothing as I was happy enough as is for a table-top piece. I imagine I'll be putting in the extra effort whenever I get around to trying figure painting. But just being able to pick from such a vast array of STL designs means I can about always find something I like the looks of better than official models.
For the most part, minis on FDM remind me a lot of working with old metal cast minis. Always some flashing to clean or a gap to fill or other imperfection to work around and maybe use a touch of putty here and there. But I've done that for decades and now the mini costs less than a dollar and I can print it whenever I'm ready to work on the project instead of having a closet overflowing with kits for projects that I haven't gotten to yet but they were on sale at the time or limited availability or whatever the case.
I'm also learning to kitbash in cura a bit which is opening up some interesting possibilities to just print a model already modified instead of needing to physically convert it by hand.
The good thing about a 3d printer is once youre done printing armies you can print anything else unlike spending $300 to maybe make it to 1500pts
Trying to get to that point amount with games workshop is insane!
But that $200 a month will actually decrease. The cost of the printer starts to spread over more and more months. Plus you now have enough models to keep you busy for a while especially if you just stick with the patreon prints moving forward.
You were right! I totally haven’t bought any more models since making this video. Not one. Definitely not a set. 😅
Put a note in your diary to do a follow up to this when you've been printing for a year. Assuming you don't buy another printer and you slow down a little with the file purchases, you might have a monthly cost that you don't feel like you need to hide from your -fiancé- wife. BTW, congratulations. 💐💐💐
Thanks! I hope the yearly cost goes way down and the future misses helps me curtail my spending 😂
There are a lot of cheaper and more niche, smaller studios that create wonderful STLs too. Basicly - everyone can find something for himself. Tbh I don't like OPR minis so I only use their rules and go with different models from different companies.
I’m glad you found something that you like! And I’m really glad OPR rules. Let you use whatever you want! That’s a lot of the fun for me too.
This really illustrates the real danger of printing, which is becoming a whale for STLs! If you have an addictive personality (and many gamers do) before you know it you'll be swimming in thousands of files for things you have no intention on printing and would never have bought in a store, because your printer brain was telling you "it doesn't matter wjat it is, if you get it as a file its a bargain!"
Definitely set a fixed monthly budget before you get going or you'll be in the same danger as anyone who blows their life savings on in game loot boxes. The purchase dopamine makes humans reeeeaaaallly dumb.
Yeah it does 😅
Not to mention you can make unlimited amounts of each of those prints.
It’s true!!
Also consider that the printer itself has a huge up front cost, but then it serves you for years. I also started doing prints for fiends into DnD or Warhammer and the printer has paid for itself many times now and also I can cover the upkeep costs from there.
Absolutely! Keep those fiends happy!
A fairer comparison would be to consider the GW price for models you have actually printed. Not all the models you COULD print. The comparison still strongly favors 3D printing. After two years subscribing to OPR, I will never print everything in my hard drive of shame 😋
Hard drive of shame? No friend! You mean a library of resources! 😎
Also stay tuned for a video next week 😝
What is with the strange flickering in this video?
I would say OBS is having a weird day 😅
I guess the biggest issue to consider is money vs time. The time to print all the STLs you bought is immense. Days and days if not months off your life. And that’s if they all print perfectly first time. That doesn’t even include cleaning time or the potential health effects of resin. Now I’m not disagreeing with your assessment as GW prices are robbery but….but… if you value time with your kids more than sitting in a toxic room for hours printing models - then I still end up buying GW because of speed. Then use those with OPR. After all an uprinted stl is just a file. Not a mini.
I hear you. And as a dad I’m absolutely prioritizing my times with my kiddos! That’s why I usually start prints and night and wake up to whatever happened 😂 I don’t babysit my printer.
the printers are a 1 time purchase, unless you feel the need to turn it into a hobby and constantly upgrade your equipment. but i have found my 3d printers make more than game stuff now. but i also print my table my own terrain.
It’s true! I think I may do terrain later
@@AcceptablyEPIC i recommend dark realms for fantasy stuff. sadly there is so much 40k and sci fi I have not found a favorite for yet.
Thanks!
This is just a fucking advertisement.
It’s not though 🤷🏻♂️
You're missing the second "A" in Acceptably in your intro.
Nice catch! 😎
Looking over your costs... You don't have a washing and final curing station? How much in IPA for washing? What was the cost of the respirator masks (and replacement filters) and gloves? Even if you don't have a washing and curing station, you still need some sort of station for washing. Going DIY, you can probably use dollar store basins and put the models outside in the sun for the final cure after washing. Also throw in the cost of electricity to run the 3D printers.
Granted, all these costs don't add up to much, but they are real (and reoccurring for the consumables) costs. Even with those extra costs that you didn't cover for this video, you are still way below the cost from GW.
You’re right! I bought some tubs and about $49 total in acetone
The cost of buying a warhammer army from GW is your self respect.
Ouch 😂
It's definitely the way to go, the only thing left is for regular tournaments or local game stores being okay with the figures you are using. It sounds like you most likely have the space and other friends with the area to play with printed models. I've been printing since 2019, I have slightly more regular models than printed models, but it's definitely saved me a lot, and it's also allowed me to print things for my friends. Like you said you can print as many as you want. It's definitely worth it and you will most likely make back the cost of the printer and materials in value off of one bottle of resin, maybe two. And if you play multiple game systems that are miniatures agnostic then 3d printing kicks in the door and prints everything that you need with a little bit of searching. I've printed off D&D figures for my friends, and fan art statues, it's fun.
Gonna be a blast over time!
The network effect is a thing. GW keeps driving away their previous customers, thinking nothing of it because they think they can always get new ones. But 3D printing gives people the power to make their own minis, and people like One Page Rules provide both cheap minis and free rules. Once all those discarded GW customers reach a critical mass using a different ruleset, it's game over for GW.
Right?
@@Perserra 3d printing is a major gamechanger. I Printed a small 1000 point army i dont like after a game or 2? no problem, i can just give them away to somebody who is interested to try the game but doesnt want to spend 500€ on a starter army. i already good a couple of people into playing that would normaly never have started.
Frieda like you are the real ones!
buying the files for the included supports are great. but you can really save by finding all the free ones out there and just supporting yourself. takes some extra time but moneys money.
now if its something like i know im gonna need 30 of these guys at the very least, ill buy the supported ones cause then you know they work and you wont bee dropping 10$ on failed prints.
Heard!
You did not add in the cost of the respirators, filters, air cleaner, VOC meter, ventilation, gloves, IPA, etc., etc., etc. Time is also a HUGE factor. Is STL slicing, supporting, etc., plus printing and cleaning time more or less than assembling the minis?
I find it to be less time than clipping out models, cleaning off, mold, lines, and assembling them. But that’s just been my experience!
The printing time should not be compared to the building time of plastic models, you don't need to sit next to your printer to watch it print.
I'm in my living room doing other stuff while my printer is busy printing dwarves (right now).
Agreed! I print and run errands etc all the time. It is one of the things I love about 3d printing!!
I love to set it and walk away! Work while I work please!
Absolutely!
I went through this exact thing when I first started. My mortgage increased so I had to look at my budgets and realised I had spent £4000 on print files in a year. I deleted my patreon account shortly after because I was fighting the FOMO but have found a new love of looking through my mmf library to see what crazy proxys I can find for things. Turns out I have enough crazy tentacle monsters to make a full Mind flayer army for example which I found in the OPR community lists.
So. Many. Files.
Its automatically cheaper to print vs buying from GW. Only way its more expensive is if you make poor decisions on resin - printer - and your designs unless you buy designs and most dont check to see if other peoples files have good compatibility.
I've really enjoyed printing! It's stopping that's the issue 😅
Good video! Would have been nice to know how many minis you actually did print in those five months. It's a simple calculation: $1007/x minis = cost per mini.
I'm curious why you didn't add a washing and a curing station and omitted the costs for tools, masks and gloves?
I think 3D printing is great when you have the ventilated space and want to print an army. If you only need a few models for a skirmish game it's still less expensive to buy, even from Games Workshop. ;-)
Last question: Did you print all the files you bought at least once?
A follow up video is in order! I’m definitely going to print everything I’ve paid for.
As for washing and such, I had the masks and gloves already. Homeownership and all that.
I imagine my cost for curing is about $50. Two cans of acetone and some plastic storage containers to dip stuff in.
3D printing has a Fixed upfront cost and a consumable cost.
If you own and assemble plastic miniatures, you already have tools that have a fixed cost and consumables such as replacement X-acto blades.
No one throws away an x-acto knife and a pair of nippers on one use, that cost is spread across the many dozens if not hundreds of miniatures you assemble using those tools.
A 3D printer is a tool and the cost ends up being spread out across the hundreds if not thousands of miniatures you print with it.
Basic Fixed / upfront cost for 3D printing
3D printer $150 - $400 on average.
The higher cost 3D printers have more bells and whistles. The higher cost 3D printers can also have a higher print volume.
What is print volume: a small 3D printer you might only be able to fit a squad of 5 miniatures on it vs a larger 3D printer where you can fit a squad of 20+ miniatures per print run.
Consumables: paper towels, gloves, liquid resin.
Just like assembling and painting a miniature you have fixed costs and consumables.
Fixed cost is that x-acto blade holder.
Consumable is that x-acto knife blade that you replace when it gets dull.
Fixed cost: nippers for cutting sprues.
Consumables: paint brushes, paint and paper towels, water.
It’s all true!
Cost of
Time not included
Usually takes me about ten minutes to set up files to slice and fifteen to clean and cure per round!
I agree with your video don't get me wrong, but these files only start to become comparatively cheaper if you actually printed and used them all. It'd be interesting to know how much of those hundreds of paid model files you have as physical models, and how many you actually printed multiple of.
Otherwise it's a kind of digital pile of shame if you will, which is IMO another consideration if someone is thinking about 3D printing.
He`ll never print all those, never mind paint 1/2 of it.
It’s true! I’ve printed A LOT and am making my way through painting 😎
He might 😆
Keep in mind - OPR will keep sending you new armies....
So your investment of $10 a month will keep you busy even after you finish your current armies.
My wife and I spend *mumble* on Patreons each month, there is a lot of value for small increments.
MuMbLe 😂😂😂
The easy problem that I could see would be a "digital pile of shame." I for one don't want to pay for things I'm never going to use. So when I see amazing kickstarters out there and I think. Oh I'd love to have that entire army. But then I already look at what I have that isn't painted I think to myself that I shouldn't buy that army. But that's just my though.I enjoyed the video. Have a great day.
It’s a good thought! I’m trying to paint what I print and print what I buy! 😎
A couple critiques:
-You didn't add in costs for power and safety equipment
-Your math assumes no bad prints
-Your math assumes you will print every stl you have
-You bought all the 3D printing on discount but took all GW prices without looking for retailers with discount
Not saying it would be higher that GW with this, but it would be more accurate
Hmm. Fair points. That bottle is really huge honestly and can handle some misfires 😂
I already had the mask and my machine came with gloves and such so that got built in I suppose.
And if you got everything at a 15% discount from Amazon you’re still at $4250 or there about!
Hey, remember when people said that 3D printing was never going to be a viable alternative to buying GW plastic because of cost, details and time..? Yeah I think that prediction is now effectively dead in the water.
I'm completely flabbergasted at GW's arrogance and lack of foresight. One thing is that they didn't predict how easy and quick 3D printing would become for miniatures, fair enough, but the fact is that they already do all their sculpting via 3D modeling now anyway, so there is literally no excuse for them not to do alternative poses, chapter/subfaction specific models and then sell them as STL's.
They can't control the spread and they can't limit the amount of prints, they might as well bite that bullet, because the amount of money that people will GLADLY hand over for files is evident, people are just fine paying for digital things and either they participate and get a ton of revenue for comparatively very little work (only modeling needed, don't need to make molds, print cardboard and ship the product) or they don't, they get nothing, people flock everywhere else and they just... lose. Make it make sense to me.
Nice video, I think you clearly illustrate how GW is not worth it anymore. The bonus aspect is that I can go to someone like you, who'd be willing to sell their time to print for me, so I don't have to and it'd still be cheaper and in many cases better. That's not to speak of all the non-regular files with more accurate depictions that are available and traded between people.
It’s a great time to own a printer! 😎
Hey bud :-) good video. IMO the true cost of 3D printing is saving more money :-P I got my printer in 2020 Mars 3 got it on pre order was little over 250 Euro then another 100 for wash and cure station, the resin I get on deals at the time 500ml bottles of ABS like Resin cost me 15 euro or less cant rememebr at the time. Took me a couple of hours to get my settings done (still use the same settings to this day) I print at .03 layer level takes a little longer but the quality jump is worth it. I spend 50 something Euro a month on Patreon stuff (not just mini stuff) I have the same methylated spirits (easy to clean it just put it in a container and put in the cure machine and filter it out perfect to go again. My last big army was a Korps army from The Makers Cult (they are one of my favourite creators) lots of guys 3 artilary pieces, 3 tanks and one of them being very big and one flamer unit on top of those 3 tanks. Each tank print cost including supports was between 4-8 euro because size ha If you want some good creators I can point you towards some badass creators bigger and smaller who do amazing work, if not no worries :-) (several of them I like also do alot of kits as well as big units and vehices patreons as well all very good priced like OPR or cheaper)
I’d love the rec’s!
@@AcceptablyEPIC Oh I actually gave several but it appears that UA-cam didnt like it ha but some great ones I have currently are The Makers Cult, DakkaDakka Store, Red Pilgrim Miniatures and Bestiarum Miniatures. These are my go to guys. I had Station Forge, Titan Forge. They are great. So is Den of imagination, GHAMAK and Solwyte Studio.
Oh awesome!!! Thanks!
Fumes from Resin is heavily overblown, if you use normal resin, yes the fumes are pretty bad, but Elegoo does have rechargeable activated carbon filters that sit at the back of the machine. The main point is WATER WASHABLE resin has far fewer fumes (aka it's not as smelly). I have printed for 4 years with resin as well as FDM, and while resin wasn't my most favorite of printing due to the extra post processing, what came out is amazing.
There is "8k" water washable resin, that is designed for the high def "12k and 16k" printers as the polymers are smaller and allow for crisper details. Again water washable resin is the way to go, far less to worry about, and you don't need IPA to clean your models, saving you big money in the long run.
Currently there is the Elegoo Saturn 4 Ultra on the market (just came out and are shipping now), its got a lot of great modern features that new resin printers that have advanced in recent years. The bundle with the Wash and Cure station is $580, so you get the printer and the ability to wash the models and cure them for a damn good price.
I haven’t tried water washable yet. I should!
@@AcceptablyEPIC i started with water washable. its nice not having to deal with IPA but the stuff i had was a bit more brittle, things broke from time to time. im using sunlu abs like now and that stuff is a tank
Agreed!
@@TheCarlopare The water washable I have used. Sunlu's water washable was nice, and Elegoo's own water washable. I have liked Elegoos stuff better. Do note that resin can be brittle from overcuring as well. I never had brittle problems with water washable resin, if the resin is old (over a year) from being opened it can get brittle as the polymers brake down.
Never cared to try ABS like stuff as I have FDM printers that...print actual ABS, well really its better brother, ASA.
I’ll have to give it a shot!
Nah no such thing if you enjoy the printing. I still buy the major pieces from GW but proxy the rest
Heroes and such are what made me get the printer 😎
You kinda went overboard spending US$1k in 5 months. I bought a printer and curing station together for about $400, I buy 1 bottle of resin a month for about $40, and I spend maybe $25/month on Patreons and buying STLs.
So I've spent less than US$1.2k in a whole year, and my hobby room is literally overflowing with printed minis of all kinds.
I absolutely went overboard. Trying to cut back. I swear. 😅
I don't own a printer. So my comparisons focus what I can buy. I find GW pretty competitive when it comes to troups kits (cheaper than buying printed miniatures off of etsy, or smaller miniatures companies) but that completely goes out the window when it comes to characters.
$40 for a single model is insane
@@AcceptablyEPIC It's especially weird when they package models of similar quality into their skirmish games for about $8 a figure.
Right??
Costs of paints and painting supplies or are all your armies naked? I assume this would be more expensive for 3D prints because you have more minis. Any cost in venting and furniture for setting up the garage space?
I made shelves from old lumber to hold the printer. And the paint I buy is not model paint. I use craft paint and am happy with my results.
But I suppose those are things I’d buy with GW models too!
@@AcceptablyEPIChell yeah, I'm sticking to Golden Acrylics personally, I really like them.
put mine in my shed, got an fdm and resin, bambu a1 mini $230, mars 4 $190, filament $20, resin $20. for comparison 55pts of catachans are $35, Chimera $60. x6 of each is not an army, not even 1k pts! and costs more than the 2 printers and filament/resin combined. im halfway through my $20 filament roll, and ive printed 2 hellhounds and 2 chimeras, with test prints that got tossed added in.
Woohoo!! 🥳
Nah, forget resin. There's no need for resin, FDM is good enough for it all.
I tried printing minis on FDM and just couldn’t get them to look like I wanted. I’m a really big fan of my risen printer, but to each their own!
@@AcceptablyEPIC guessing you made the mistake of 100% infill and had stock settings.
It’s possible! I did a lot of youtubing and searching. If you have any recommendations, I’d love to hear them!
@@AcceptablyEPIC it's actually not that hard to do, you do need to fiddle a bit with some things to get it to work from one FDM printer to the other, but as a general rule 60-80% infill is better than 100%, under some conditions for some figures that are spindlier, you can get better results by going as low as 50%, but you shouldn't go lower. A good rule of thumb is that you want your outer wall thickness about double the thickness of your nozzle size. Beyond that it's kind of printer and software dependent. There's videos for both higher and lower end printers and profiles available for both to get good quality. Though when I say good quality I don't mean resin quality. Resin is the king of detail, but for most people too much detail can be its own problem. I like a little more detail than most so I trick my Ender into treating every layer like it's the top layer and it gives me good enough quality to satisfy me, which is a bit more than most would want.
@@AcceptablyEPIC understanding that it's FDM is key though, so expecting resin level of detail is pointless. But you can do enough detail to make a reasonably good looking terminator assault squad that you won't be ashamed to show to others. I say that cause that's my most printed model set. 🤣
As an old guy coming back to the hobby I am leaning more and more to adding 3d printing to my repertoire. At 200 per month at the age I estimate you to be you'd have about 400,000 in your retirement nest egg. Now if you have to feed your hobby and your retirement, half of that would net you about 175,000 at retirement and you have 1000's of models. HAHA!
Hey! The retirement plan is kicking in! Also, I can’t keep spending this kind of hobby money. I have family to feed 😂
Yes but most of that is not every month most was I one time buy
Absolutely. Now I just have to stop spending monthly 😅
Lol I understand but now it should only cost you about 50 a month
Here’s hoping! 😎
Soooo... no ABS or tough resin able to handle tabletop manipulation without breaking like that brittle low cost standard resin ? No Isopropyl alcohol for cleaning your prints ? No UV curing station or equipment ? No ultrasonic cleaner either ? No cost for filter cartridges for that mask and disposable gloves ? Because that's the real cost of 3D printing, not Patreon supplementary subscriptions and MMF impulse buys.
I’d add an extra $10 a month for that. I just have tubs of acetone that I buy at $20 a can. And those last about two months
you can easily find abs-like and tough resins at 1kg for 40 bucks or less
I’ll look!
Time is more valuable than money. Therefore 3D printing looks more expensive to me.
Depends. I start prints at night and clean them up in the morning. I think I spend less time handling models than if I were to glue them together. A large portion come out all ready to put on a base!
@@AcceptablyEPIC My favorite part of modeling is gluing them together though! Working with plastic is fun. Kitbashing and reposing is fun. While I could probably enjoy getting into designing sculpts that's a big time commitment to learn to do well and then I'd have less time to model paint and play...
It’s always a trade for sure!
lose a shit ton of money buying a broken 3d printer from a crooked hobby shop with no refund policy. You might as well spend the $300+ on a Official GW army.
Yikes!! Sorry about that!
To be honest, having been in 3d printing for several years, I would never buy a used one.
A new one is cheap enough and you know it will work and have a warranty.
Especially with older 3d printers can be finicky and are a hobby(“job”) just to keep them running consistently
You are not buying an army for anywhere near $300
$35 for 55pts of catachans, $60 for a chimera at 70 pts x6 = $570 for 750 pts, not even 1kpts, no leader, and old ugly "cheap" sculpts
@@timrusk1916 Used Resin is not a good idea. replacing the screen makes no sense, they often have leaks, etc.
FDM on the other hand depends on the printer and the price. there are plenty of good fdm printer on the market from people who started during covid and stopped after.
those are often barely used and easy to fix.
Gotta love the hobby 😅
Okay, I have notes. This is going to be long, brace yourself.
I appreciate your effort to be inclusive on the dollar costs incurred. I do think you're putting an overly positive spin on certain aspects, however.
First, you continually refer to your *files* as *miniatures.* But they're not. Until you have spent the time and the resin, they're just files. So it is, on one level, deceptive to say "I've spent 355$ to get all these miniatures." Granted that you could, now that you have the files, increase the total number of literal miniatures to whatever you wanted, this phrasing still implies a level of instantaneous production that isn't true.
Second: you gloss over the way the subscriptions lose value if one isn't interested in all or part of that months offerings. To be sure, this is very personal and you made it clear that this video is about your own spending and value received, but it would have been nice if you'd acknowledged the weakness of the subscription model as you went past.
Third: your final cost comparison is completely invalid. You ruined it by including a comparison of the cost of GW's games to that of OPR's games in the numbers, and that has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of acquiring the minis. I can spend the time and effort to print minis and then play using 40K's rules (with my friends, of course, the entire scenario collapses if the goal is to play in official GW events) or I can spend the money to buy GW minis and then play using OPR rules. The cost of the rulebooks has NOTHING to do with this discussion and the inclusion of it is a major contributor to why this video seems, to me, less like information and more like propaganda.
There are other problems with the cost comparison. On the one hand, you are including real-world numbers by only listing the money you've actually spent over the last five months. On the other hand, you are using worst-case theoretical numbers by using the full retail price on GW's website. Very few people actually pay that price; most independent stores offer a discount of between 10 and 20% off nominal retail.
Moreover, your "cost of resin" is misleading. You have listed the amount you actually spent on resin, but provided no information about how many actual physical miniatures that resin has produced. To legitimately compare the costs of printing and purchasing, you need to calculate how much you would spend on resin to produce the same number of physical miniatures. As it is, we viewers have received no useful information about how much we'd spend on materials to get a particular result.
The result, then, is that your "price comparison" is absolutely meaningless and collapses into a pure emotional argument rather than a useful examination of the differences between printing and purchasing miniatures. And this is extremely frustrating, because you *could* have easily produced a meaningful comparison by gathering up all the minis you've *actually printed* and estimating the cost of the resin (and electricity and spare parts) needed to produce them, adding in the cost of the printer and the cost of the relevant STLs, and comparing *that* number to what it would take to buy the equivalent GW models. Even if you properly priced the GW models by including the 10 to15% discount most people will get via an independent gaming store, the dollar values would almost certainly land squarely in favour of printing. This could have been such a valuable video - and instead it's just a puff piece that boils down to "I like printing and I don't like GW."
But I think the big problem is that you, explicitly, glossed over the time and learning/frustration costs. I'm active in the R2-D2 builder's club, and in the last few years 3D printing has become a very popular tool for building full-size replicas of Artoo. That's fine, but every couple of months we get a new builder who has decided they want to 3D print their droid and knows nothing about how it works. Some of those do listen to our advice, but some just dive in and then experience massive levels of frustration because instead of spending their time building their droid they're spending it learning how to use the 3D printer. And this is just as true of gaming miniatures.
3D printing your minis instead of buying them from GW is a textbook example of how one can save time by spending money or save money by spending time, and the fact they one is making this exchange is fundamental to the decision. Of course every individual has their own personal exchange rate on how much money their time is worth, so it would be difficult to reach a nice final number about the relative cost. But the fact remains: if one chooses to move to 3D printing their own miniatures, there is a major upfront investment in both money AND TIME that *must* be spent before one has anything at all.
I am, of course, just like you neglecting the money cost of all the wasted material created as one learns to use the printer. I don't have the experience with SLA to accurately predict that; with FDM, I would pin it at one to two kg of filament for an easy-to-use machine like Bambu and three to five kg for a cheap machine like an Ender 3. This cost is not trivial, but is also hard to calculate. Still, it should have been mentioned. (I acknowledge that any resin you used learning to use the machine is included in the dollar amount you've used here, because that's the cost of *all* your resin; my point is that not all of that money was actually spent on miniatures because some of it was spent on learning how, and that distinction should not have been smoothed over.)
In my opinion, then, you've both chosen to make an unequal comparison of the dollar costs whilst at the same time you've glossed over a key part of the set-up costs of 3D printing. By doing so, you have seriously reduced the value of this video as a tool for anyone trying to decide between buying commercially produced minis or printing their own. I feel that the stated goal of this video is to help the viewer make a decision about what method of getting minis is best for them - but the actual result is some enthusiastic cheerleading for "print-your-own" that's not all that useful for the neophyte.
To end on a high note: I did very much enjoy the style of the video; your pieces to camera are well done, the narration is clear and the audio is good. There's reasonable production value in this video and that's not true of most people on UA-cam. Finally, you did make me laugh several times (though I expect the funniest part was unintentional, because "two thousand millilitres" is absolutely hilarious).
Anyway, I hope this lengthy missive comes across as a genuine critique. It's not meant to be a personal attack or to accuse you of anything, but rather to convey my impressions of the video and my concerns over the content. I hope this allows you to compare what you hoped to accomplish with how the final result is perceived, and use that information to refine your future videos. Thanks!
I read everywhere! I appreciate the insight and you taking the time to write them!
I’m considering doing a follow up video on what I actually have printed. Because let’s be real, you are absolutely right in that if I only own the files and don’t print them minis, it doesn’t make sense.
But I’ve printed a heck ton of minis and painted a fair few.
Something I hope to highlight and a video next week!
I think the cost should include the gloves, filters, and everything. Because you had to buy that too. Pretty cool though. But, you've spent more in the last 5 months 3d printing than I have in the last 2 years buying from GW. Anyway, I support Games Workshop because I love Warhammer.
I want to love them. I have a hard time with so many price increases!
I'm sure you don't have all those printed. 3d printing is a hobby in itself and without a climate controlled space you will have failed prints
I’ve printed a heck ton 😅
@@AcceptablyEPIC Also resin goes bad if you don't use it. For me every time I wanted to print something it would fail without long exposure or perfect weather, and I'd probably need new resin. It was just way more hassle than it was worth not to mention the safety concerns of storing according to the safety data and time it takes to print and post process and haz disposal. I'm sure there is some idiot washing his resin down the sink somewhere
I have yet to let a bottle last a whole month 😅