Man this video was long missing bro from somebody but I actually knows the industry. I wish there were more devs and people who know software design that would make UA-cam channels that can give their perspective on actually making stuff. It would help significantly with all the hating back and front between consoles and PCs and all this ridiculousness. Thank you my man. That's why I've been a member of your channel for a bit now
There’s no hate. Everyone on a pc is looking at console fans claiming it’s superior like a child claiming they didn’t get into the cookie jar while covered in crumbs. It’s cute, but we all know it’s not true
I'm a little potty so I own an S & X. I use my S almost exclusively nowadays, as it has no issues with the games I play. It isn't holding back "the brand" imo - it is an alternate system ideally suited to specific games. It runs at low wattage, yet still holds it's own with games I love like Grounded, Division 2 & Doom: Eternal. All of these games run beautifully and it is the ultimate indie system for the price and with a Gamepass subscription. Rather than parts of the industry focusing on the so-called negatives of the S - let's focus on the positives. Building and maintaining a PC rig is an entirely different tech adventure. They are expensive to build and run (as you know). I have a PC but stopped gaming using my beast when energy bills sky rocketed across Europe. To game on my PC costs 3x as much on average as the S, in terms of energy draw. Let's face it, if a company like Nintendo had a system like S on the market, they would milk the system dry - we would see wonders. Gears 5 shows what the hardware is capable of in the right hands, it is a pity we don't see focused projects with S primarily in mind. There are how many millions of S owners globally? The potential market for the system is sizeable.
I am glad for the Xbox s. It's all I could buy during COVID and the console scalping wars. In got me into Xbox and made me take the leap from Sony to Microsoft
I had one I bought during Covid because I was curious how games looked and played and to be honest at launch it actually booted games faster then my launch PS5 but games definitely didn’t look as good as Series X or PS5 games Since launch with updates the PS5 runs faster . It’s a nice little machine especially for the price but wouldn’t recommend it as your main console.
the S is a great value entry point into current gen. MS probably slipped up when they said the box would do everything the X could do but at a lower resolution(and no disc ofc). I think they'll need to let Devs drop features for games on the S.remnant 2 for example didn't have a 60fps option on the S.
Devs may not like it but lower income players have the S as their access to modern gaming. If Devs had their way, we'd be spending thousands on rigs. No, real life exists, the S is the best value in Gaming.
But as someone who spent the extra money on a Series X, my access of games is tied to feature parity to an economy model. Sure, I also play on PC but I actually would have preferred to get BG3 on my Xbox so that my wife could co-op with me without having to have purchased another copy of BG3. I feel that the restrictions of the Series S has been a point of consideration on whether to release on Xbox for 3rd party devs or, if they do, they build around the Series S and simply try to upscale other versions. It's a non-zero chance that is one of the reasons that some titles are still releasing at 30fps.
Im wondering if this has more to do with player base? I'm guessing there actually isnt that many series s in the wild. Ive heard rumors of it only making up for less than 20% of the already low xbox play base.
I was just watching another video where they brought up how developers will optimize for the series S and not spend time on taking advantage of the series X basically making no point to buying the series X since the only thing you get is slightly higher FPS but no additional graphical features. Maybe that’s enough but it still feels like we lose something from having two hardware specs.
"we can't do XYZ on the series S" is just dev speak for, "this feature isn't optimized well" So it turns out that the split screen performance for BG3 is very poor on PC, to the point where it essentially cuts your frame rate in half. While I understand why that might be the case from a technical perspective, I think it's asking a lot of the players to accept an unstable ~ 30 fps when they were running ~60 before. So why did larian insist on launching with a feature that doesn't work very well, to the point where an entire platform is gonna be delayed? And the feature is gonna run like crap regardless? Kinda seems like larian wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They want the clout from having split screen in their game despite facing the same technical limitations that would cause most developers to just omit the feature. This feature that they just "can't do" on the series S doesn't even work very well on PC.
I think they should had new features to increase the performance of the console in the new carbon edition to keep the console viable for the rest of the 9na gen cuz otherwise am not sure if is gonna handle it all the way long
Of course a machine that is more capable than many current mid end pcs that runs the same games with satisfactory performance is more than able to run practically anything under the sun if it targets fullhd and uses smart upscaling tech that is widely available. When it comes to development for consoles the main goal is to achieve a stable performance throughout the whole game, which demands time, which equates to money. The xss is different enough from the ps5 and the xsx to require extra time and attention in order to achieve this stability. For many studios this means postponing the xbox release to recoup their costs with the streamlined ps5 release, since xbox releases require simultaneous release with feature parity on the xsx and xss. It is not a matter of the xss capabilities, more development cost. If I could ask anything out from this whole BG debacle is that Larian implemented keyboard and mouse support for BG3 on xbox, since xbox games support those peripherals. Now THAT would make some people mad lol.
The forced parity is definitely the biggest problem here. You essentially force them to cater to the lower standard, which prevents the more powerful system from showing off what it can do as well. I think we need to bring back compression. Since the days of digital downloads during the PS3 era, we''ve seen a complete disregard for game/file size when other tech has been unable to keep up. CoD is up to something like 200+ GB with some of their games now and hard drives just aren't meant to store and pull all that. Games used to use tricks like split area zones, limiting rendering of areas, and even supplemental hardware to bypass the limitations of their system. But now, those tricks are gone. Everyone is limited by the system and the other aspects of game development aren't advancing. SSDs are now the limiting factor for a lot of games due to load times and file sizes.
Having a game in a lower spec system only means more time in development doesn't prevent high spec systems to show off, the min requirements of BG3 on steam are a GTX 970(which is wors than a Series S) does that prevent the game from looking incredible on a RTX4090?
@@ohnosmoarlulcatz Noooooo no no no, you DESIGN for the 4090 and OPTIMIZE for the 560 or however low you can go to reach a broader market. Just listen to the game developer dude ↑
@@BernardoPC117 Tell that to the modern developers for these games because they're doing the opposite. Just look at the whole Pokemon Sword and Shield fiasco. They already had higher end designs thanks to Sun and Moon, but they didn't use them. Instead, they're developing for the lower spec system instead and upscaling it from there instead of downscaling.
@@ohnosmoarlulcatz I haven't heard about that "fiasco" but I believe you, the thing is you can't put Game Freak as the modern developer standard, their pokemon games for the last 20 years have being the most lazy thing in the gaming industry.
8:30 "I don't think the Xbox S/X is holding back the Xbox S/X" It is, but more critically it is holding back next gen games overall and will only get worse. Microsoft is trying to have all it's cake - cheapest console, most powerful console and their service on every system, but will end up getting none.
@@GingerPrimeGaming There have been mentions by third party developers saying the XS/S is pretty weak and holds back the XS/X Baldurs Gate III is delayed on the Xbox because XS/S cannot handle split screen because of it's low ram and Microsoft mandates there has to be parity features between XS/S and XS/X. The XS/S is considered Microsoft's main Xbox console where the XS/X is the "pro" model. The thing is, this generation of games naturally are taking advantage of the highest end consoles specs like the PS5 and of course PCs. It's only going to get worse when this generations gets back to normal pace post covid and late gen games are going to suffer on the Xbox Platform because they have to be developed for the "main" xbox console which is the XS/S.
The reason Microsoft calls there calls by name and numbers are due to project code name such as Xbox 360 Xbox one and the short version of Xbox project Scarlett is Xbox series s
I wish the One X was still supported! That’s what I have and discovered that the series S is technically weaker than my console problem is Microsoft doesn’t support it anymore! I’d start a petition but I can waste my time elsewhere
stop kidding yourself Xbox Series S owners. The console is not really next gen, it's just an updated Xbox One X that MS mandates next gen games must be able to run on it. Do you really think as time goes this generation, it's not going to get worse as developers will really want their games to shine on true next gen hardware especially when the PS5 Pro comes out and PCs?
Bad tradesmen blame their tools, it's as simple as that. Hearing game developers complain about how difficult their jobs are, that involve getting to sit on their asses all day in air-conditioned offices, is an absolute joke, and betray a complete lack of self-awareness. My sixty-one year old mother, who works at an amazon warehouse, has a harder job than these over-privileged clowns. EDIT: Just want to be clear, I'm talking about the devs that have come out and said that the consumer shouldn't expect Baldur's Gate 3 level of quality with their games cause it's really hard, not Larian Studios themselves.
Ginger BG3 & Starfield were scheduled to hit GP the SAME day, so Larian used the SS as an excuse to avoid having their back blown out by Bethesda ( as you yourself stated with the PC version ) 🤣 👏 🤯 Edit: Also I question your statement that Larian did a masterful job at advertising.. I personally know many Xbox fans that were willing to try BG3 even though they "hate" turn based games.. But now they have the opinion that Larian made them feel like 2nd class citizens with their inability to "optimize" for the SS on time for the "scheduled" release date & so now they plan to just skip it all together 😮💨 not very masterful by Larian to miss Millions in sales from the Xbox player base.. & Just to be clear Microsoft wanted to skip entirely the Split Screen feature with BG3 just like they did with Halo Infinite ( because they know hardly anybody will use it ) BUT Larian said this VERY underutilized feature MUST be present at launch.. Like I said it was ALL just BS excuses to avoid competing directly with Starfield, just like they did on PC 💯
@@GingerPrimeGaming The only insecurities I'm picking up on is from Larian being soo afraid to go head to head with Starfield that they use the SS as a BS excuse to "justify" them not being able to hit their own scheduled release date.. Either way for myself turn based gets a pass, but regardless of everything else Larian definitely fumbled the bag with how they announced this "delay" & to call that "masterful" is a bit off base to say the least 💯
I have to disagree with you. The "S" has always been trash. It's holding up really great games coming to the "X" There was no reason for the release of a "S" it's noting but a cheap cash grab for the people that didn't want to spend the money for the "X" Xbox needs to make games exclusively for the "X" or have the people who didn't spend the money wait their turn for the extra optimization needed for their cheap purchase.
If you enjoyed this discussion, check out my "The Problem with... " Series here on UA-cam > ua-cam.com/play/PLmfQaUGtmQWjlkDrY8grZSyvKrpWAo_l-.html
I own the s because i couldn't afford the x. It works great for me, i havent had any problems with it at all.
Man this video was long missing bro from somebody but I actually knows the industry. I wish there were more devs and people who know software design that would make UA-cam channels that can give their perspective on actually making stuff. It would help significantly with all the hating back and front between consoles and PCs and all this ridiculousness. Thank you my man. That's why I've been a member of your channel for a bit now
There’s no hate. Everyone on a pc is looking at console fans claiming it’s superior like a child claiming they didn’t get into the cookie jar while covered in crumbs. It’s cute, but we all know it’s not true
I'm a little potty so I own an S & X.
I use my S almost exclusively nowadays, as it has no issues with the games I play.
It isn't holding back "the brand" imo - it is an alternate system ideally suited to specific games.
It runs at low wattage, yet still holds it's own with games I love like Grounded, Division 2 & Doom: Eternal.
All of these games run beautifully and it is the ultimate indie system for the price and with a Gamepass subscription.
Rather than parts of the industry focusing on the so-called negatives of the S - let's focus on the positives.
Building and maintaining a PC rig is an entirely different tech adventure. They are expensive to build and run (as you know).
I have a PC but stopped gaming using my beast when energy bills sky rocketed across Europe.
To game on my PC costs 3x as much on average as the S, in terms of energy draw.
Let's face it, if a company like Nintendo had a system like S on the market, they would milk the system dry - we would see wonders.
Gears 5 shows what the hardware is capable of in the right hands, it is a pity we don't see focused projects with S primarily in mind.
There are how many millions of S owners globally?
The potential market for the system is sizeable.
I am glad for the Xbox s. It's all I could buy during COVID and the console scalping wars. In got me into Xbox and made me take the leap from Sony to Microsoft
Exactly.
I had one I bought during Covid because I was curious how games looked and played and to be honest at launch it actually booted games faster then my launch PS5 but games definitely didn’t look as good as Series X or PS5 games Since launch with updates the PS5 runs faster . It’s a nice little machine especially for the price but wouldn’t recommend it as your main console.
Never lagged or bugged?
the S is a great value entry point into current gen. MS probably slipped up when they said the box would do everything the X could do but at a lower resolution(and no disc ofc).
I think they'll need to let Devs drop features for games on the S.remnant 2 for example didn't have a 60fps option on the S.
Honestly there isn't a problem with the series s the problem is consumers think the $500 series x can perform as well as a $1800 computer 😝
I see you’ve watched the video and summarized it as a comment. Well done 👍
Devs may not like it but lower income players have the S as their access to modern gaming. If Devs had their way, we'd be spending thousands on rigs. No, real life exists, the S is the best value in Gaming.
But as someone who spent the extra money on a Series X, my access of games is tied to feature parity to an economy model. Sure, I also play on PC but I actually would have preferred to get BG3 on my Xbox so that my wife could co-op with me without having to have purchased another copy of BG3.
I feel that the restrictions of the Series S has been a point of consideration on whether to release on Xbox for 3rd party devs or, if they do, they build around the Series S and simply try to upscale other versions. It's a non-zero chance that is one of the reasons that some titles are still releasing at 30fps.
Im wondering if this has more to do with player base? I'm guessing there actually isnt that many series s in the wild. Ive heard rumors of it only making up for less than 20% of the already low xbox play base.
I was just watching another video where they brought up how developers will optimize for the series S and not spend time on taking advantage of the series X basically making no point to buying the series X since the only thing you get is slightly higher FPS but no additional graphical features. Maybe that’s enough but it still feels like we lose something from having two hardware specs.
"we can't do XYZ on the series S" is just dev speak for, "this feature isn't optimized well"
So it turns out that the split screen performance for BG3 is very poor on PC, to the point where it essentially cuts your frame rate in half.
While I understand why that might be the case from a technical perspective, I think it's asking a lot of the players to accept an unstable ~ 30 fps when they were running ~60 before.
So why did larian insist on launching with a feature that doesn't work very well, to the point where an entire platform is gonna be delayed? And the feature is gonna run like crap regardless?
Kinda seems like larian wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They want the clout from having split screen in their game despite facing the same technical limitations that would cause most developers to just omit the feature.
This feature that they just "can't do" on the series S doesn't even work very well on PC.
Poor? Nah im getting over a 100fps still with split screen
Is anyone upgrading from a S to X for Starfield and BG3? Is it worth it?
I got a Xbox series S second hand in good condition for £80 last days…just to play Starfield
respect lol
Just did the same. Just recently upgraded to an Xbox one, too. 😡
Built a system that comes close to the Xbox Series S price. You couldnt do it for double what you pay for a Xbox Series S.
Never played a Baldur Gate game which is weird since I’ve played just about every MMO ever made
The old ones were great and this new one looks better
The burning question is....will Starfield run well on the series s?
probably the real reason they had to lock starfield to 30fps.
@aceanime8634 Well it's clocked at 30fps for both systems so for those who are S owners no need to upgrade there's no point.
@aceanime8634 I agree
So the standard challenge of little manufacturer support followed by difficult SDKs to build games on…and this is BEFORE network coding.
I think they should had new features to increase the performance of the console in the new carbon edition to keep the console viable for the rest of the 9na gen cuz otherwise am not sure if is gonna handle it all the way long
I wonder how many Playstation 5s are going to be sold by Sony because Microsoft gave them a free timed exclusive on BG3.
Of course a machine that is more capable than many current mid end pcs that runs the same games with satisfactory performance is more than able to run practically anything under the sun if it targets fullhd and uses smart upscaling tech that is widely available.
When it comes to development for consoles the main goal is to achieve a stable performance throughout the whole game, which demands time, which equates to money. The xss is different enough from the ps5 and the xsx to require extra time and attention in order to achieve this stability. For many studios this means postponing the xbox release to recoup their costs with the streamlined ps5 release, since xbox releases require simultaneous release with feature parity on the xsx and xss. It is not a matter of the xss capabilities, more development cost.
If I could ask anything out from this whole BG debacle is that Larian implemented keyboard and mouse support for BG3 on xbox, since xbox games support those peripherals. Now THAT would make some people mad lol.
I’m stupid… graphics don’t matter to me very much but will my Xbox s at the very least be able to run starfield well? Like gameplay wise?
Yes, todd howard said himself that he loves playing it on his series s cause his kids hog up the series x.
@@-carpet-sweet!
@@-carpet-yeah and tod howard is a person you should fully trust at all times
The forced parity is definitely the biggest problem here. You essentially force them to cater to the lower standard, which prevents the more powerful system from showing off what it can do as well.
I think we need to bring back compression. Since the days of digital downloads during the PS3 era, we''ve seen a complete disregard for game/file size when other tech has been unable to keep up. CoD is up to something like 200+ GB with some of their games now and hard drives just aren't meant to store and pull all that. Games used to use tricks like split area zones, limiting rendering of areas, and even supplemental hardware to bypass the limitations of their system. But now, those tricks are gone. Everyone is limited by the system and the other aspects of game development aren't advancing. SSDs are now the limiting factor for a lot of games due to load times and file sizes.
Having a game in a lower spec system only means more time in development doesn't prevent high spec systems to show off, the min requirements of BG3 on steam are a GTX 970(which is wors than a Series S) does that prevent the game from looking incredible on a RTX4090?
@@BernardoPC117 If one is running a GTX 560 and the other is running a RTX 4090, you have to design the game for the GTX 560.
@@ohnosmoarlulcatz Noooooo no no no, you DESIGN for the 4090 and OPTIMIZE for the 560 or however low you can go to reach a broader market. Just listen to the game developer dude ↑
@@BernardoPC117 Tell that to the modern developers for these games because they're doing the opposite. Just look at the whole Pokemon Sword and Shield fiasco. They already had higher end designs thanks to Sun and Moon, but they didn't use them. Instead, they're developing for the lower spec system instead and upscaling it from there instead of downscaling.
@@ohnosmoarlulcatz I haven't heard about that "fiasco" but I believe you, the thing is you can't put Game Freak as the modern developer standard, their pokemon games for the last 20 years have being the most lazy thing in the gaming industry.
Millions own a Xbox ss that’s a lot of money they can’t afford to lose
And the name ps5 is so much better than series x lol.
8:30 "I don't think the Xbox S/X is holding back the Xbox S/X"
It is, but more critically it is holding back next gen games overall and will only get worse.
Microsoft is trying to have all it's cake - cheapest console, most powerful console and their service on every system, but will end up getting none.
What do you mean holding back?
@@GingerPrimeGaming There have been mentions by third party developers saying the XS/S is pretty weak and holds back the XS/X
Baldurs Gate III is delayed on the Xbox because XS/S cannot handle split screen because of it's low ram and Microsoft mandates there has to be parity features between XS/S and XS/X.
The XS/S is considered Microsoft's main Xbox console where the XS/X is the "pro" model.
The thing is, this generation of games naturally are taking advantage of the highest end consoles specs like the PS5 and of course PCs.
It's only going to get worse when this generations gets back to normal pace post covid and late gen games are going to suffer on the Xbox Platform because they have to be developed for the "main" xbox console which is the XS/S.
Baldur's Gate III is just the start of the growing disparity of next gen games being hampered because of the Xbox S/S as this generation continues.
The reason Microsoft calls there calls by name and numbers are due to project code name such as Xbox 360 Xbox one and the short version of Xbox project Scarlett is Xbox series s
I wish the One X was still supported! That’s what I have and discovered that the series S is technically weaker than my console problem is Microsoft doesn’t support it anymore! I’d start a petition but I can waste my time elsewhere
They should have named it XBox XL and XS
stop kidding yourself Xbox Series S owners.
The console is not really next gen, it's just an updated Xbox One X that MS mandates next gen games must be able to run on it.
Do you really think as time goes this generation, it's not going to get worse as developers will really want their games to shine on true next gen hardware especially when the PS5 Pro comes out and PCs?
A beanie in an incredibly hot summer is brave!
I remember had to wait for rdr2 for pc release now its the other way around.
My PC is faster than Series X or PS5, Series S is the only console worth buying.
Ps5 disk is superior I refuse to give s company complete control over how I can buy games
Idk how many times I have heard that the series S is only holding back lazy devs
Bad tradesmen blame their tools, it's as simple as that. Hearing game developers complain about how difficult their jobs are, that involve getting to sit on their asses all day in air-conditioned offices, is an absolute joke, and betray a complete lack of self-awareness. My sixty-one year old mother, who works at an amazon warehouse, has a harder job than these over-privileged clowns.
EDIT: Just want to be clear, I'm talking about the devs that have come out and said that the consumer shouldn't expect Baldur's Gate 3 level of quality with their games cause it's really hard, not Larian Studios themselves.
dont worry series E is coming in 2024
I99900k 32GB RAM NVME RTX4080 :) bring on starfield
Heck yes dude, I can't wait to see this game in Ultrawide.
Have a Series X but I am building a gaming PC to play Baldur's Gate 3 and Starfield at 60 fps.
Nailed it 👌
One thing i absolutely hate about the Xbox ... their freaking names lol. X 360, X1, X series X, X 1 X, X series s, One S. Good lord lol
Ginger BG3 & Starfield were scheduled to hit GP the SAME day, so Larian used the SS as an excuse to avoid having their back blown out by Bethesda ( as you yourself stated with the PC version ) 🤣 👏 🤯
Edit: Also I question your statement that Larian did a masterful job at advertising..
I personally know many Xbox fans that were willing to try BG3 even though they "hate" turn based games..
But now they have the opinion that Larian made them feel like 2nd class citizens with their inability to "optimize" for the SS on time for the "scheduled" release date & so now they plan to just skip it all together 😮💨 not very masterful by Larian to miss Millions in sales from the Xbox player base..
& Just to be clear Microsoft wanted to skip entirely the Split Screen feature with BG3 just like they did with Halo Infinite ( because they know hardly anybody will use it ) BUT Larian said this VERY underutilized feature MUST be present at launch..
Like I said it was ALL just BS excuses to avoid competing directly with Starfield, just like they did on PC 💯
If you're friends are getting that from them, they're projecting some form of gaming inserceties.
@@GingerPrimeGaming The only insecurities I'm picking up on is from Larian being soo afraid to go head to head with Starfield that they use the SS as a BS excuse to "justify" them not being able to hit their own scheduled release date..
Either way for myself turn based gets a pass, but regardless of everything else Larian definitely fumbled the bag with how they announced this "delay" & to call that "masterful" is a bit off base to say the least 💯
Lol delusional fanboy.
Mandatory support for series S should be dropped. It holds this generation back...
I have to disagree with you.
The "S" has always been trash. It's holding up really great games coming to the "X" There was no reason for the release of a "S" it's noting but a cheap cash grab for the people that didn't want to spend the money for the "X"
Xbox needs to make games exclusively for the "X" or have the people who didn't spend the money wait their turn for the extra optimization needed for their cheap purchase.
your wrong on every single point you made in this vid
How so? Just saying I’m wrong makes me think you’re more in a cult then someone who knows what they’re talking about, but I’m willing to hear you out.
Yeah, well… that’s just like, your opinion man.