@@ZogJhones Pit is allowed to fly, because he's not Ganon levels of strong. Ganon's is all about kill power, more so than even bower, but it comes at a cost. Literally everything else.
@@orangeslash1667I believe he's saying that Ganon having a better recovery wouldn't make him broken because he'll still be slow. Also having to rely on your opponent being bad isn't an efficient strategy
@@henkiestudios5117 Listen carefully, Ganon has the Tri-force of power, so in Smash he has a powerful moveset. However this comes at a cost, literally everything else other than defense. This means that you can't afford to make as much mistakes compared to the other Zelda characters. He's that much of a high risk high reward character.
@@henkiestudios5117 Normally this would be a bad thing, but it works with Falcon for one reason. If Ganon had Mario's fire ball, thats a bad thing because it's not just Mario's attack in Smash. It's one of the most iconic moves in the Mario series, not the case with Falcon. Caption Falcon has no references to F-zero other than he's fast. Ganon maybe be copying Falcon's moveset, but because he isn't fast, his play style has nothing to do with F-zero. Ganon is like Falcon in that they only have one pacific thing that relates to their series and everything else is Smash original. With Falcon it's speed, with Ganon it's power.
(As a mac main) here's the thing about mac's recovery it's predictable and exploitable but it goes a fair distance. He is really slippery sometimes and hard to edge guard him
There’s also the counter that actually gives him a level of threat offstage while furthering his recovery even if it’s highly committal and on some stages his wall jump can potentially net him an insane amount of extra distance.
Unironically, Chrom's recovery isnt all that bad because of his top 5 airspeed, one of the best directional airdodges and generous magnet hands. Counters arent even all that bad for up b since most of them have a decently easy sweetspot position to avoid the hitbox
It has good verticality but 0 horizontal range, and is cripplingly easy to edgeguard As far as pure distance goes it's pretty good but it's the one thing holding him as a character back
Unironically, it IS that bad. Good air speed and air dodge is something virtually every top-high (and honestly plenty of mid tiers) can lay claim to. Getting hit out with any moderate knock back is Chrom’s stock unless the other player is throwing. Furthermore, because his up-B is so trash, he is FORCED to drift in and use air dodge with “good magnet hands” virtually every single offstage situation-which is obviously extremely predictable and easy to punish (any extra hit offstage is also the stock!) It’s cool to see a Chrom believer out here but it 100% is absolute dog water and easily bottom 3 in the game. Roy is pretty much worse than Chrom is nearly every way but is picked legit always instead because his recovery is actually usable-even though Roy’s is pretty bad too!
Ganondorf used to be slightly better in Melee where Down B restored his double jump. I think that was a glitch because that mechanic has never returned for any other fighter
Sakurai: Ganondorf with good recovery would be OP. Also Sakurai: Steve can literally create platforms out of thin air in a platform fighter, let's give him an amazing recovery as well!
Fun fact: even with Nana, their recovery is still terrible. It was pointed out by PJiggles that if you block Nana while she is going up, Popo goes nowhere. It’s a similar case to how Ness gets stalled when he does his Thunder Tackle recovery. So realistically, the ice climbers, with or without nana has a bad recovery
While ganondorf may be easier to reach when he s sent far away offstage, Chrom up B is still the more ridiculous. If you force him using it AND you know the timing to hit him (which is really not complicated to learn), he IS dead.
@@Chill-Noob1 If it's purely Up+B only and nothing else then it is Jigglypuff. I mean, the guy in the vid counted Ice Climbers despite the fact that they have fairly good Side+B horizontal recovery but lacking Up+B depending on certain conditions.
It’s hard for me to feel bad for the parents who bought tickets to the wonka experience. After seeing those ai images, I have no clue why you’d still pay for it.....
No, I think Robin with no magic has the worst recovery. I've played as him before and tried to recover with no magic. I think I could jump higher than he could recover.
Heres my list of characters with bad recoveries: Little Mac, Ganondorf, Dr Mario, Incineroar, Wolf, The Belmonts, Jigglypuff, Chrom, i think everyone already knows
Just give Ganon a side B that doesn't put him in free fall. It wouldn't make him unbalanced and the character would be much more consistent, more mixups and more playable
Ganon's recovery options are bad, but that's missing the point of Ganon imo. The true way to play Ganondorf is to abandon any efforts to actually return to the stage, and instead try and drag your opponents down with you
As bad as it is, Doc technically has a mix up option in down b, making him slightly better than Ganon. I also do agree that the changes Mac has received in Ult makes his recovery just good enough that you couldn't consider it the worst anymore, just in the bottom 3. This leaves Ganon and Sopo. Sopo's is the worst situationally, Ganon's is the worst more consistently. So while on a technicality you have to call Sopo #1, Ganon's is still worse imo, since to consistently up Nana and Popo, you need to be good at the IC's matchup. Which in itself isn't a guarantee that you can/will have them split up.
If we are thinking recovery with the purpose of getting back to stage with an up b the worst recovery in smash is without a doubt Jigglypuff since it's the only one that doesn't work as a recovery.
Doc and little Mac both have good recoveries when compared to trash ones entirely The reason I say that is docs kills stupid early out of shield and Mac with enough momentum in the air can get somewhat horizontal movement with his. Ganon has a slow one that can also be blocked by someone running into him making him more vulnerable although the worst I’d say is duck hunt since although it’s long it’s slow to a personal hell level because almost any character can run off stage and stage spike him while he recovers
In my opinion, as a sonic main... Id give the award to ike... I would say pyra but atleast she can switch. Ike gets his double jump taken then rises up with no horizontal momentum, then dive bomb to his doom. It's actually alot funnier then you think.
Or ROB without fuel. But at least for me, the difference with those is that they aren’t permanent changes. They will all get the resources back eventually, making it more of a fluid character state, while Sopo is stuck as that version of the character until the next stock.
Someone forgot that jigglypuff literally doesn’t have a recover. Yeah she has a ton of jumps and good air mobility but her up b literally doesn’t send her… you know up
Tether or no tether, Belmonts are for sure bottom 1. Doc and Ganon have better and quicker aerial hitboxes to threaten reversal situations while the Belmonts have nothing.
I think Ganon's recovery is better than Doc's because Doc goes NO WHERE. At least Ganon's up b kinda has a bit of reach and can hit opponents standing above the ledge, but Doc basically NEEDS his double jump at all times. Plus, if Ganon uses aerials as a defensive option, at least they send further, have bigger hitboxes, and last longer than if Doc were to do the same.
Docs is better overall, but if he has to use cyclone, he’s the easiest character to edgeguard in the game. He’s a sitting duck for like 2 seconds after he uses it
Where is duckhunt? His recovery goes somewhat high but it has no hitbox and is extremely unsafe. You don't have much control either. Sure you can end it early with an aerial but it puts you into freefall. It's so easy to get spiked. It's like rob's recovery if it was ass.
If you think about it, hes correct Because Little mac has many different ways to mix up them for recovery (*cough cough* peanut) Docter mario same thing as little mac can mix up Belmonts just like the video they have a tether sopo can use side-b but that still sucks but it's something Ganon, just sucks
@@Sephiroth_fallenangel like cyu said, she has the best airspeed in the game, 5 midair jumps, and a great airdodge to get to the ledge up b is not the only tool characters have to recover
I think that Popo without Nana it's even better recovery than Ganon's, because at least it gives you more horizontality and speed, Ganon recovery doesn't does that, but makes you decide between UP B and SIDE B which are just bad at recovering.
Dr mario's recovery is... honestly not so bad. Like i know I'm biased and everything but hear me out. Doc has fantastic mixup options, the biggest weaknesses would be his abysmal vertical height on his up-b, but even that is somewhat negated by probably one of the biggest ledge snaps in the game, also making him rather difficult to 2-frame. Sure, if you do end up getting hit by an edgeguard, you are unequivocally fucked, but he has plenty of options to prevent getting hit by said edgeguard.
Ganon having a shit recovery sucks because he can canonically FLY
But then he would be over powered!!
@@orangeslash1667 ganon with brawl Pit up b wouldnt be OP.
@@ZogJhones Pit is allowed to fly, because he's not Ganon levels of strong.
Ganon's is all about kill power, more so than even bower, but it comes at a cost. Literally everything else.
@@orangeslash1667 he already has slow attacks
@@orangeslash1667I believe he's saying that Ganon having a better recovery wouldn't make him broken because he'll still be slow. Also having to rely on your opponent being bad isn't an efficient strategy
Nah, Popo after losing Nana is the TRUE bottom tier
And he would still be a bad matchup for Ganon
Thats exactly what he said
Someone hasn't seen big d recover on popo
I still take it over little mac, peanuts just really good at the game. Sopo is easy
@@hellojacobw4151 sopo
chrom mains trying to recover against incineroar is like watching sisyphus
One must imagine Chrom happy
And Mario acuac
I’m pretty sure it’s also bad against pyras side b
@@cesaryelarodriguez440spanish player spotted
mi cara cuando estela y destello
@@the_neto06 Me has pillado jajajaja
Reminder that Ganon knows how to float in the main games so who is that imposter
Some characters have to be nerfed for balance reasons.
@@orangeslash1667You could still give him a better recovery , like R.O.B’s recovery but instead of fuel give him limited time
@@henkiestudios5117 Listen carefully, Ganon has the Tri-force of power, so in Smash he has a powerful moveset.
However this comes at a cost, literally everything else other than defense.
This means that you can't afford to make as much mistakes compared to the other Zelda characters. He's that much of a high risk high reward character.
@@orangeslash1667 It’s still very strange that he is a Captain Falcon clone, they can easily replace warlock punch
@@henkiestudios5117 Normally this would be a bad thing, but it works with Falcon for one reason.
If Ganon had Mario's fire ball, thats a bad thing because it's not just Mario's attack in Smash. It's one of the most iconic moves in the Mario series, not the case with Falcon.
Caption Falcon has no references to F-zero other than he's fast. Ganon maybe be copying Falcon's moveset, but because he isn't fast, his play style has nothing to do with F-zero.
Ganon is like Falcon in that they only have one pacific thing that relates to their series and everything else is Smash original.
With Falcon it's speed, with Ganon it's power.
Little Mac can’t even reach above the lights on his own stage
Harsh
😂😂
After all, it makes sense ! Have you ever seen a boxer jump to the ceiling ? 😂
He can if he jumps on the lines
(As a mac main) here's the thing about mac's recovery it's predictable and exploitable but it goes a fair distance. He is really slippery sometimes and hard to edge guard him
There’s also the counter that actually gives him a level of threat offstage while furthering his recovery even if it’s highly committal and on some stages his wall jump can potentially net him an insane amount of extra distance.
Hit Belmonts once off stage and they’re done.
Just like in their games
If there is another smash game ganon needs to be able to float/fly
We had it, and then nintendo shut it down
there is project M
Unironically, Chrom's recovery isnt all that bad because of his top 5 airspeed, one of the best directional airdodges and generous magnet hands. Counters arent even all that bad for up b since most of them have a decently easy sweetspot position to avoid the hitbox
It has good verticality but 0 horizontal range, and is cripplingly easy to edgeguard
As far as pure distance goes it's pretty good but it's the one thing holding him as a character back
Unironically, it IS that bad. Good air speed and air dodge is something virtually every top-high (and honestly plenty of mid tiers) can lay claim to. Getting hit out with any moderate knock back is Chrom’s stock unless the other player is throwing. Furthermore, because his up-B is so trash, he is FORCED to drift in and use air dodge with “good magnet hands” virtually every single offstage situation-which is obviously extremely predictable and easy to punish (any extra hit offstage is also the stock!)
It’s cool to see a Chrom believer out here but it 100% is absolute dog water and easily bottom 3 in the game. Roy is pretty much worse than Chrom is nearly every way but is picked legit always instead because his recovery is actually usable-even though Roy’s is pretty bad too!
his airspeed is really good, but his air acceleration is kinda dogwater so if you get hit with like a pit arrow or something you are a little screwed
it definitely is that bad
Nah, it's horrible. Unlike Ike it does not have a hitbox on the way up so it's very easy to intercept
Ganondorf used to be slightly better in Melee where Down B restored his double jump. I think that was a glitch because that mechanic has never returned for any other fighter
As someone who tries to main Dr Mario, can confirm is recovery is bad.
Ganon in smash: no air mobility
Ganon in tloz: flying
Sakurai: Ganondorf with good recovery would be OP.
Also Sakurai: Steve can literally create platforms out of thin air in a platform fighter, let's give him an amazing recovery as well!
Simon should have been video games accurate where his falling speed is like a satellite falling out of orbit.
Messing up Steve though 😭😭😭
Guy tried to loop it at the end but it doesn't sound right
At least he didn’t say “and that’s why”
Fun fact: even with Nana, their recovery is still terrible. It was pointed out by PJiggles that if you block Nana while she is going up, Popo goes nowhere. It’s a similar case to how Ness gets stalled when he does his Thunder Tackle recovery.
So realistically, the ice climbers, with or without nana has a bad recovery
Popo after losing Nana💀
The Gannon clip was TCnick3 I can tell because of that name tag
Nice
*Cloud has entered the chat*
He has Limit
As a lower skilled Mac casual, I have convinved all my friends several times why Mac's recovery isn't the worst in the game
Me, a Doc player: "It's gonna be Doc and Ganon right?"
While ganondorf may be easier to reach when he s sent far away offstage, Chrom up B is still the more ridiculous. If you force him using it AND you know the timing to hit him (which is really not complicated to learn), he IS dead.
As a ganondaddy main I can say that hero with 0 MP has the worst recovery
Jigglypuff and solo ice climber: 😐
Jigglypuff’s 5 jumps, air speed, and weight help her recover unless she has no jumps left
@@Chill-Noob1 If it's purely Up+B only and nothing else then it is Jigglypuff.
I mean, the guy in the vid counted Ice Climbers despite the fact that they have fairly good Side+B horizontal recovery but lacking Up+B depending on certain conditions.
@@_Just_Another_Guy Just up B makes no sense lol
No because if chrom had Roy’s recovery he too would be s tier but the fact most counters can prevent him from recovering entirely is demeaning 😭😭🙏
As a Ganon main I knew this answer, but it still hurts
Everybody talking about Popo without Nana but no one about Robin without wind charges
It’s hard for me to feel bad for the parents who bought tickets to the wonka experience. After seeing those ai images, I have no clue why you’d still pay for it.....
No, I think Robin with no magic has the worst recovery. I've played as him before
and tried to recover with no magic. I think I could jump higher than he could recover.
Heres my list of characters with bad recoveries:
Little Mac, Ganondorf, Dr Mario, Incineroar, Wolf, The Belmonts, Jigglypuff, Chrom, i think everyone already knows
I would’ve thought that Jigglypuff (without any more jumps) would’ve been the worst since their Up-B is just them singing
Robin without wind magic is the true worst recovery
Just give Ganon a side B that doesn't put him in free fall. It wouldn't make him unbalanced and the character would be much more consistent, more mixups and more playable
Ganon's recovery options are bad, but that's missing the point of Ganon imo. The true way to play Ganondorf is to abandon any efforts to actually return to the stage, and instead try and drag your opponents down with you
Man just ignored the Ice Climbers if we lose the sibling.
Didn't he literally mention it at the end?
Robin without resources
As bad as it is, Doc technically has a mix up option in down b, making him slightly better than Ganon. I also do agree that the changes Mac has received in Ult makes his recovery just good enough that you couldn't consider it the worst anymore, just in the bottom 3. This leaves Ganon and Sopo.
Sopo's is the worst situationally, Ganon's is the worst more consistently. So while on a technicality you have to call Sopo #1, Ganon's is still worse imo, since to consistently up Nana and Popo, you need to be good at the IC's matchup. Which in itself isn't a guarantee that you can/will have them split up.
Robin when no green book
Popo when no nana
Hero with no MP
If we are thinking recovery with the purpose of getting back to stage with an up b the worst recovery in smash is without a doubt Jigglypuff since it's the only one that doesn't work as a recovery.
Imagine ganon was given float ability
How about YOSHI, his recovery is just trowing an egg and Yoshi barely goes up
Casual
You have to use the egg at the top of the jump, plus you have a busted air speed, the second jump is huge, you can airdodge and have like 50 s
As the worst Simon main, recovery and survivability are my only strongsuits 😢
Doc and little Mac both have good recoveries when compared to trash ones entirely
The reason I say that is docs kills stupid early out of shield and Mac with enough momentum in the air can get somewhat horizontal movement with his. Ganon has a slow one that can also be blocked by someone running into him making him more vulnerable although the worst I’d say is duck hunt since although it’s long it’s slow to a personal hell level because almost any character can run off stage and stage spike him while he recovers
You know he can air dodge mid up b, right? And protect himself with the can
In my opinion, as a sonic main... Id give the award to ike... I would say pyra but atleast she can switch. Ike gets his double jump taken then rises up with no horizontal momentum, then dive bomb to his doom. It's actually alot funnier then you think.
If your gonna count popo without nana, than how about robin without his tome or hero with no mana?
Or ROB without fuel.
But at least for me, the difference with those is that they aren’t permanent changes. They will all get the resources back eventually, making it more of a fluid character state, while Sopo is stuck as that version of the character until the next stock.
Someone forgot that jigglypuff literally doesn’t have a recover. Yeah she has a ton of jumps and good air mobility but her up b literally doesn’t send her… you know up
recovery doesn't mean up-b
Recovery means "ability to get back to the stage"
the jigg has enterd chat
Nah man Popo cracked, I once took out 2 of somebody’s stocks with just him
Robin without magic.
Tether or no tether, Belmonts are for sure bottom 1. Doc and Ganon have better and quicker aerial hitboxes to threaten reversal situations while the Belmonts have nothing.
Jigglypuffs air dodge gets more moment than doc and also ness air dodge and a lot of other 😊
Ness? I might just suck but having to accurately hit yourself back onto the stage is a little much
Incineroar’s recovery sucks too
Little Mac has an even more linear and Predictable Recovery than Ganon tho.
Then you havent watched peanut
Pichu, even though it damages him, has a great recovery
The thing with peanut, he simply just makes little Mac look godlike.
It’s easily Sopo, but if you’re not counting that, Ganondorf might as well not even have a double jump
Sopo recovery is underrated… in terms of how bad it is
Robin without elwind:
Yoshis up B has some pretty bad verticality without a jump in store
Oh my goodness. Someone with actually good opinions! I didnt think such a thing was possible
Like they forgot about yoshi recovery
I think Ganon's recovery is better than Doc's because Doc goes NO WHERE. At least Ganon's up b kinda has a bit of reach and can hit opponents standing above the ledge, but Doc basically NEEDS his double jump at all times. Plus, if Ganon uses aerials as a defensive option, at least they send further, have bigger hitboxes, and last longer than if Doc were to do the same.
Yoshi's sucks unless I'm using it incorrectly
Steve has the lowest jump height in the game, but his up b is good, so he does not have the worst recovery
why isn't there an honourable mention for bayonetta 👀
if you count up B's as recoverys for EVERY character, yoshi solos worst recovery, he doesnt even go up with his up B
Docs is better overall, but if he has to use cyclone, he’s the easiest character to edgeguard in the game. He’s a sitting duck for like 2 seconds after he uses it
The Mii fighter with the up special of kicks is probably the worst real recovery
Bowser jr recovery also suck because he does not get up b back if the opponent does not enough dmg
Where is duckhunt? His recovery goes somewhat high but it has no hitbox and is extremely unsafe. You don't have much control either. Sure you can end it early with an aerial but it puts you into freefall.
It's so easy to get spiked. It's like rob's recovery if it was ass.
I would argue it's Ivysaur.😅
hero with no mana
I used to think Yoshi's was the worst until i used it straight after a double jump.
Yoshi entered the chat
Yoshi is super floaty and the highest double jump in the game. It even has armor
Yoshi recovery is good wym?
He probably has a tough time with Yoshis up B
His air mobility is one of the best in the game tho, so that makes up for it
Bro his airspeed is the number 1 fastest in the game
Robin without tome is bad too, although not as bad as some on this list
My lil bro that mains max always complains about his shit recovery and then I solo him with doc.
I know it’s not as bad as some of the comments, but Olimar with 3 purple Pikmin is also pretty bad if I’m remembering correctly
Someone forgot Jigglypuff
You can jump and air dodge 😅
Remember olimar's recovery in brawl?
If you think about it, hes correct
Because Little mac has many different ways to mix up them for recovery (*cough cough* peanut)
Docter mario same thing as little mac can mix up
Belmonts just like the video they have a tether
sopo can use side-b but that still sucks but it's something
Ganon, just sucks
Sopo is the definitive worse recovery
He didnt interupt it, he made it better
Jigglypuff rn:😐😑😐
Edit: I'm talking about his up b
??????Jigglypuff has 5 midair jumps and the best airspeed in the game
as a jigglypuff main
no
@@cyusontheinternet his up b
@@furretwalk2447his up b goes nowhere
@@Sephiroth_fallenangel like cyu said, she has the best airspeed in the game, 5 midair jumps, and a great airdodge to get to the ledge
up b is not the only tool characters have to recover
when I first watched this I thought of kirby having the best recovery
Ganon is the worst on paper, but ive seen some Ganons recover from some ridiculous scenarios thanks to his MASSIVE magnet hands radius.
I’ve always been a believer that it is Doc, then Ganon, then probably Chrom. Mac’s isn’t that horrible if you know what you’re doing.
I think that Popo without Nana it's even better recovery than Ganon's, because at least it gives you more horizontality and speed, Ganon recovery doesn't does that, but makes you decide between UP B and SIDE B which are just bad at recovering.
Dr mario's recovery is... honestly not so bad.
Like i know I'm biased and everything but hear me out. Doc has fantastic mixup options, the biggest weaknesses would be his abysmal vertical height on his up-b, but even that is somewhat negated by probably one of the biggest ledge snaps in the game, also making him rather difficult to 2-frame.
Sure, if you do end up getting hit by an edgeguard, you are unequivocally fucked, but he has plenty of options to prevent getting hit by said edgeguard.
Jigglypuff “Ha, imbecile’s”
Ok based on the worst up b based on recovery then jigglypuff
nahhh gotta be yoshi with no extra jump
You're just bad
@@JoelGarcia-lu3tw no theres not a singuilar way to get back its just popo without nana
Yoshi literally just existing:
Yoshis recovery is amazing
Yoshi doesn't have a recovery, its his egg throw instead@@yeehaw8089
@@Tailsmonkjump
jigglypuff: am I a joke to you?
Kirby [if Kirby can’t fly]
Charecters like terry and sora can't recover too good against jiggly puff or kirby because their side b goes in the direction of their opponents
They don’t tho…
???
Yoshi💀
His recovery is good
Nobody puts respect (I guess disrespect) on how bad robin’s recovery is with no book juice
Kirby's recovery is also pretty bad