Piranha Plant - G&W Joker - Sonic Hero - Greninja B&K - Olimar Terry - Shulk Byleth - pikachu MinMin - Sheik Steve - Sonic Sephiroth - Sheik P/M - Diddy Kong Kazuya - Sonic Sora - Diddy Kong
If Rex was in smash bros, he would definitely be Pyra and Mythra's worst matchup, cause he would be able to smash them both in ultimate and canonically
@@Splonton That’s not objective. Sonic’s rushdown game is just as good as his “campiness”, because the character itself basically has no unviable options. That’s why Sonic is a valid contender for best character in the game for a lot of people
@@RealBroccoliHour no it really isn't. The reason his camping playstyle is just objectively more viable is because the vast majority of characters have no answer to it. There's nothing they can do unless the sonic screws something up. With the rushdown style yeah it's still good, but more characters have a solution to being rushed down than being camped out
@@Splonton Sonic’s rushdown is just as good as his camping mainly because of invincible moves like Spin dash and all of its conversions, that’s the whole reason it’s used as a camping tool to begin with. An actually good aggressive Sonic is literally just as oppressive.
I'm a Sephiroth main. I agree that Sheik is pretty rough, but Pikachu is also ridiculously hard for him. Maybe more so. People think of Sephiroth as a slow spacing machine but one factor that is also tough is that a lot of his moves are precision. Really it's only his up-air, forward-tilt, and up-smash that don't require precision. Sort of Neutral-B too but that's just a different thing altogether. Landing meaningful hits on Pika is so hard. Not to mention that Seph is amazing at ledge trapping and solid at edge guards. That strength is pretty much nullified by Pika's total lack of disadvantage. I know Pika is a very generic bad match up but hot damn is he hard for this character. He's definitely got a few bad ones but probably the next worst is Sonic.
Pikachu isn't that bad once you really learn it, I think Tweek even put Sephiroth as winning. Personally I would recommend using Scintilla to counter Pikachu's up-B and neutral-B, as well as using orbs to nullify his neutral-B approaches. Nair is also helpful in this matchup, it is hard to learn at first but completely doable, don't worry!
@@marcmothersole8265 That surprises me a lot that Tweek put him as winning! I appreciate the encouragement! Honestly I actually do have a solid grasp on the match up with both Pika and Sheik. I can win against both for sure. But I've found that generally true in my experience. There's no match up where I feel like they're unbeatable with Seph. Against Pika what I've done that helps is use shield only to parry T-Jolt and focus on maintaining control with Shadow Flare and good spacing with Scintilla to catch Quick Attack and other burst options (sparingly). Luckily Seph has no problem with kill moves so after a little control just landing an F-Tilt or b-air tends to do the trick. Still a good Pika will use his small hurt box and pancaking to evade very effectively but with minimal effort. Maybe I can reevaluate the match up though and see it in Seph's favor!
@@d.a.d.-ohgosh bair doesnt hit pika easily, but you can use fair to poke him offstage, or retreating up air to cover air approaches. Both of these moves are easier to hit small characters with. T-Jolt approach doesn't work as like you said, Scintilla will fuck him up for trying it, AND side B goes through the t-jolt and nullifies it. You can kill Pika with up airs, catch him in shield with d smash, catch him grounded with f-tilts or get a bair read. A reliable method is to knock him offstage (fair is easy to do this with) and then edgegaurd or ledgetrap, if he tries to skip either phase by just quick attacking past you, Scintilla will activate and kill him. NOTE: Scintilla will NOT activate on Pichu's quick attack as it has no hitbox, making it significantly easier for him to get past you. The only matchup I think is REALLY bad for Sephiroth is Joker, I play Aegis for Joker because any good Joker player will never lose to you in this mu, unless you are miles better than them (just being miles better than people is not a reliable tournament winning strategy). Sheik is reliably winnable but definitely favours Sheik. Good luck and have fun bringing despair to Smash.
@@marcmothersole8265 don't think tweek has played very many top level pikas with seph. It's crazy how your opinion can change depending who you play. Pika can low profile most of seph's aerials, which is a huge problem for him. Speed and T Jolt of course make neutral pretty difficult even if orbs intercept t jolt. Coupled with the fact he could get edgeguarded pretty hard by pika, and is tall and incredibly light, it's pretty rough. He also can't camp on ledge because of Tjolt. Meaning it's really hard to adjust to the disadvantage.
Honestly find Shulk's MUs rather interesting. He has a lot of favorable matchups against the new DLC (Steve, Terry, Kazuya, probably some others I'm missing) but Shulk tends to struggle hard against the traditional top tiers, like Palu, Snake, and Pikachu, and he goes even or losing against a lot of swordies.
he has crazy disjointed range for dealing with slow and hard hitting characters like Steve and kazuya but fast characters like pika run circles around him edit: also if I had to guess, pika can edgeguard shulk pretty easily like if the character does to swords, he kinda exemplifies the strengths and weaknesses of swordies to the max with arts and his stats
@@seviyasouji Mostly just a question of if Shulk can keep pikachu out, but pikachu has a good projectile and a very fast speed so shulk has to approach, and shulk thrives off of edgeguard kills, which is hard to do against Pikachu.
Greninja being the standout Hero counter is by far one of the weirdest and unexpected matchups. I didn't expect Greninja to be _anyone's_ worst matchup.
you know how painful it is, playing _3 different characters_ and having _ALL_ of their worst MU be Diddy? that chimp lives in my goddamn nightmares....
I play both Kazuya and Ganondorf. Min Min is abysmal in general, considering her arms (obviously) keep them away, because that’s what both characters want. It sucks, but that’s how it just goes.
Gannon definitely, but kazuya is able to get hits that are meaningful on min min. It's hard to get in, but he kills min min when he gets in. Plus Kazuya has gates of hell
I do think Sonic is a worse matchup for Kazuya, but as someone who plays Min Min a lot, I agree that Kazuya feels like a pretty chill matchup. I rarely struggle against him. It's not free, but I agree that Min Min is very, very difficult for Kazuya.
@@juliamedina3322 Basically characters with opressive neutrals are the ones who can win against Kazuya. Pikachu and Sheik feel like a -1, Min-Min is a -2 while Sonic is a -3. Meanwhile Kazuya wins against almost everything who doesn't have immaculate neutral game. Kazuya is basically the most polarizing character in smash.
These videos are really appreciated Jordan! If you want video ideas, maybe a video with something about frame data or a video on how to optimally train amiibos?
@@wingedbluj1674 Not to mention the fact that certain characters can reflect it right back at him/her. Oh, and Mr. Game & Watch can absorb it with his trusty little bucket.
I like how the character that beats Steve and Kazuya, two of the most hated characters in the game, happens to be the absolute most hated character in Ultimate, surpassing even those two.
Awesome stuff!! As a sephiroth main I was suspecting pichu. Sheik can punish a little easier and spam on almost freely attack with her frame data. I would agree with you though
As someone who actually plays Sonic, i do kinda get scared whenever i face Kazuya because i know he can kill me at any moment if i'm not carefull. But yeah, if you are carefull and play smart you can wreck Kazuya pretty hard and it is pretty sattisfying.
Here are the characters' worst matchups in roster order, with parentheses around characters whose worst matchup is Steve that have alternate options. Samus/Dark Samus: Pichu and Pokemon Trainer Yoshi: Jigglypuff Fox: Pac-Man Pikachu: Roy, Sonic, Palutena, Simon/Richter, and Byleth Luigi: Fox Sheik: Min Min and Sephiroth Ice Climbers: Ken Roy: Ike Mr. Game and Watch: (Donkey Kong), Pikachu, Captain Falcon, Peach/Daisy, Falco, Lucario, ROB, Wii Fit Trainer, and Piranha Plant Meta Knight: King K. Rool Zero Suit Samus: Mr. Game and Watch, Meta Knight, and Incineroar Snake: Shulk Diddy Kong: Pit/Dark Pit, Pyra/Mythra, and Sora Sonic: (Kirby), Marth/Lucina, Greninja, Mii Gunner, Bayonetta, Joker, Steve, and Kazuya Olimar: Samus/Dark Samus, (Wario), Robin, and Banjo and Kazooie ROB: Wolf and Ridley Wolf: Zero Suit Samus Mega Man: Snake and Duck Hunt Rosalina: (Ryu) Greninja: Hero Palutena: Ness Pac-Man: (Sheik), Diddy Kong, and (Little Mac) Shulk: Mario, Yoshi, Dr. Mario, Corrin, (Inkling), and Terry Cloud: Young Link, Olimar, Mii Brawler, and Cloud Bayonetta: Mewtwo Joker: Zelda, Chrom, and Mii Swordfighter Hero: Villager Min Min: Ice Climbers, (Ganondorf), and Mega Man Steve: Donkey Kong, Kirby, Bowser, Sheik, Ganondorf, Wario, Little Mac, Bowser Jr., Ryu, and Inkling Sephiroth: Luigi and Lucas Pyra/Mythra: Link, Toon Link, Rosalina, (Bowser Jr.), and Isabelle Kazuya: (Bowser) Sora: Dedede
I'd argue MK is just as bad for MinMin as Sheik is. MK can easily easily avoid MinMin's arms because of his multi-jumps and has the speed on the ground to easily catch up her, but most importantly has probably the easiest time in the world, not only getting her offstage, but edgeguarding her.
I’m a Banjo main and I know alot of people say Olimar is terrible but I think that TG has proven the matchup is more than doable. I think he tends to struggle more versus Fox/Greninja , basically just characters who can oppress him and not let him set up his gameplan
As a fellow Banjo main, I would say that in terms of olimar, he has a lot of moves the he can safely smack pikmin away with while setting up his combos, so it's not a big deal. Greninja and fox are super exploitable with his general gameplan because of 1) Fox's weight and 2) Greninja's dependence on grabs. I would say his worst matchup is easily Isabelle, just due to her ability to invalidate his game plan. you have to play some heavy mind games to win.
@@tallen3057 I'm a Banjo main and Isabelle doesn't annoy me nearly as much Fox and Olimar. Yes Isabelle can take away his grenade, but she's still very easy to avoid, and the fun of Banjo is avoiding the opponent till they mess up.
I'd say for Terry due to being a main of Terry. I'd say Lil Mac because of his super armor. If Mac charges or uses down smash at the ledge, Terry wouldn't be able to recover due to the hit box on Terry's recover. It's painful to deal with.
As a seph player there are alot of bad mus for faster characters but i definitely feel like diddy is at least a honorable mention due to how easy it is for him to whiff punish and kill sephiroth while also applying pressure with the monkey flip mix ups, min min is also on the level of sheik imo
Watched them all, great work collecting data, although I still find it sus that your main is Mr. Game & Watch and he manages to be the counter to most characters. I’ll have to take him up and find that out myself.
I'm surprised you found footage of every single matchup. I'd think there'd be at least one no one's recorded a match of, especially since these are bad matchups.
shiek generally does pretty good vs. most swordies, i think because they dont have great escape options vs her combos and she is really good at edgeguarding their decent at best recoveries Min min is just a swordie on crack
I remember I tried the Olimar (me) vs. the Banjo (bro) matchup. Very abysmal for Banjo. Can't even Side B approach. The Pikmin tanking and making Banjo be stuck in place was horrendously bad for Banjo
As a seph main, i think robin and zss are his worst matchups. they are both extremely fast. they have mid range attacks that can do some noticeable damage. Robin's poison builds up percentage on the light seph making ko easier, and zss stunning seph is not good. zss also has the extended grab which is hard for seph who has no real good out-f-shield. and when you try to use any of seph range attacks, robin reflects or endures while samus either runs away of flips over them and is on top of you before you have a chance to recover and use the up neutral. It may sound odd, but I use slide a lot to initiate combos with seph and it is probably the best scenario for zss. slide, neutral air, down smash, octoslash, throw out a mega flaree in case they go higher, scintilla to edge guard. honestly, that is my best advice for any seph user
9:05 I think its undoubtedly ivysaur, steve loses his most oppressive option (block walls) against ivy cause his fair just destroys any blocks not to mention up air literally deletes the character
The problem is while it might be good at destroying blocks on level when recovering the blocks completely stop you. You're trading off an advantage for a loss and up air is good against most characters because of its size.
I honestly think that Cloud is an effective counter pick to Sora. He has a bigger sword, he hits harder, and has a much better Anti-combo game on top of being able to match his speed.
I'm not here because i necessarily think you're wrong about the cloud counterpick (though spells really do hurt cloud and sora can edgeguard the crap out of cloud, so i wouldn't say it's too bad if bad at all, but i can see someone saying cloud-sora is good for cloud nonetheless) but did you really just say cloud has better combos than sora? because that is flat out wrong, sora has infinite combos and even not including those sora has some crazy combos with double-jump canceling, such as down-tilt -> double jump cancel nair 1 -> nair 2 -> double jump cancel nair one -> nair 2 -Double jump cancel Fair 1 -> fair 2. -> down tilt -> fair 1/2/3 dealing 55%. all this isn't even talking about how cloud doesn't have much of a combo game in the first place, with is combos usually being a grand total of 2 hits. namely Bair -> Dash attack or Up air -> up air, dealing around 25%.
@@undeadmyth9977 No, it’s that it’s harder to land the Sora combos on Cloud because of the range issue. Also, since Sora’s sword has three different hotboxes, all with different amounts of hitstun, the spacing is also an issue, since you can’t just run up and start the combo from the hilt. Sora has to play with tippers to get anything done, which is a problem because Clouds sword still outranges him. The core issue is the range and that Cloud can match his speed.
I’m gonna have to disagree pretty heavy on Sonic V Steve.I think a lot of people don’t take into account how much tnt does Vs sonic. Sonic can’t spin dash through the tnt. He’ll have to constantly spin dash over, jump over or wait. Which then can make up for all the burst speed of sonic, giving you plenty of time to get resources and cancel into a counterattack. Personally I’d argue Sephiroth/Sora/Cloud are MUCH more oppressive for a Steve. They’re all faster then Steve and can put him in nasty disadvantage states. Steves best ways of getting back are blocks minecart and sometimes anvil. Sora and Sephiroth can challenge those moves very well. Cloud in general just counters campy gameplay and then has the big hitboxes and speed on top. TLDR. Sonic is not as bad a matchup as Square Characters.
Former Sephiroth main, Sheik is a bad matchup but the worst for me was Fox. It's hard to stop Fox pressure, the frame data is insane against Seph and the advantage Fox has over Sheik is weight. Sheik dies far easier than Fox and does less damage even if she can combo you longer
I disagree with Min Mins worst mu I think MK is worse. All his moves clank with hers, edgeguards her really well, has his teleport move, and is small with a lot of jumps. Speaking of Min Min I think they’re the hardest for Pyra and Mythra not diddy Kong although he’s up there.
I agree that Meta knight beats minmin, but it’s not worse than shiek. MK does get wall out a bit, and if you wait for him to land after dair camping, it’s not as bad.
I actually main both characters, and I agree that MK is awful for Min Min, and she's awful for Aegis. I do struggle more against Sheik with Min Min than against MK, but both are ridiculously hard. Diddy feels worse than Min Min for Aegis. Min Min is super difficult, don't get me wrong, but in general, when a character can out-neutral Mythra, you're in big trouble, and Diddy's neutral is just insane.
@@xanander4693 I may be biased but Sheik is still a tall character who’s light which means it’s easier to land hits on her than someone like MK but I’ll admit that sheiks needles are harder to deal with than most of MKs kit and speed as well
Sonic is definitely a bad matchup for Joker but I wouldn’t say Joker loses that matchup harder than the Pikachu matchup. Bro cannot hit Pikachu it’s a pain in the ass
shulk counter: 6 steve counter: 10 mr game and watch counter: 10 marth/lucina counter: 1 olimar counter: 4 sonic counter: 10 luigi counter: 1 sephiroth counter: 3 palutena counter: 1 yoshi counter: 1 kazuya counter: 1 min min counter: 3 pac-man counter: 3 joker counter: 4 samus / dark samus counter: 2 cloud counter: 3 bayonetta counter: 1 pikachu counter: 5 zero suit samus counter: 3 diddy kong counter: 3 wolf counter: 1 mega man counter: 2 roy/chrom counter: 1 sora counter: 1 pyra and mythra counter: 4 ROB counter: 2 hero counter: 1 fox counter: 1 snake counter: 1 rosalina counter: 1 ice climber counter: 1 metaknight counter: 1 greninja counter: 1 sheik counter: 2 this the final result. the steve counter is redundant, because poppt1 took the second worst matchup for each character.
As a Joker main I'd have to say Pikachu (and Pichu) over Sonic. Pika evades the bait and punish playstyle by just spamming neutral B and is very hard to combo with how small he is. Pika is also one of the few characters that can reliably edgeguard Joker and he can just camp when Arsene is out. If you're a Joker main, try picking up a secondary that does decently against Pika. G&W is a good one that doesn't require too much effort imo
I think cloud does steve much worse then sonic honestly… sonic doesnt have a reliable way to destroy blocks and dies early to diamond, almost all of clouds options clank or just beat out steves strongest attacks as well
I main banjo and I would argue falco also if ur using side b as a burst option to go through projectiles a lot idk what ur doing I mean it’s good sometimes but not close to the main use of that move
@@darkmewmewsans5481 There's plenty of people who main a character because they love the franchise they're from. As an example I know someone who mains Ness because Earthbound is his favorite game. I'd assume that it's a similar case for OP since like you said, there's not much appealing about Banjo from a mechanics/gameplay perspective.
@@darkmewmewsans5481 I was born far after the series came out I just like him because I like bears in general as an animal and you can create crafty combos and allows for lots of improv in play which I find fun
Shiek is Sephiroth’s worst nightmare. Fox and Wolf are really close but they are more doable than Shiek since they at least have a hard time fighting Seph offstage or in another niche situation. On the other hand, Shiek just wins 😅
Every character's Best Matchup next, take a shot every time you say Ganondorf
Or Little Mac
Or Donkey Kong
I got a buz just reading this. And I don't even drink🤦♂️
His liver would be crying
I think that many shots would kill even the irish-
0:29 Piranha Plant
1:25 Joker
2:46 Hero
3:53 Banjo & Kazooie
4:57 Terry
6:00 Byleth
7:35 Minmin
8:54 Steve
11:34 Sephiroth
13:08 Pyra/Mythra
15:03 Kazuya
16:08 Sora
Thank you
The G.O.A.T ♥️
Piranha Plant - G&W
Joker - Sonic
Hero - Greninja
B&K - Olimar
Terry - Shulk
Byleth - pikachu
MinMin - Sheik
Steve - Sonic
Sephiroth - Sheik
P/M - Diddy Kong
Kazuya - Sonic
Sora - Diddy Kong
@@konkurer775This most definitely did not age well for Hero
@@konkurer775Diddy Kong for Pyra? Really?
My biggest takeaway from this series of videos: Jordan mains a character that is almost half the cast's worst match-up.
Strategy!
And Steve is basically the other half
That’s my piranha plant being destroyed by Maister 👀😂
lmao good job even going to tournaments im too scared
You played plant against maister, you deserve a medal
Your a good piranha plant player
If Rex was in smash bros, he would definitely be Pyra and Mythra's worst matchup, cause he would be able to smash them both in ultimate and canonically
This f-ing picture at the end of 3 💀
Bruh💀💀💀💀
Pyra and mythra mains wish they were rex
I knew this comment was inevitable
Xenoblade 2 sucks
Villager is a worse mu for plant, pocketing the ball completely defuses plants gameplan and villager can happily camp an approaching plant
Villager and Isabelle are fing terrible for plant. They just nullify his only good move
I ran I to a good villager after I got my plant into elite smash and he damn near made me quit playing plant
the thing with villager being bad matchups is that villager is just a horrendous character in general and at a top level, g&w is more invalidating
this also happens with banjo but for a lesser degree. if u pocket the grenade, it completly nullifies it which is his main advantage state starter.
true, sadly. very specific but very bad for plant
Moral of the story: Sonic may be annoying and boring, but he's a necessary evil to keep the dlc in check
Imo an aggressive Sonic who doesn’t even let you breathe is not boring at all, there’s more than one way to play that character
@@RealBroccoliHour yeah, but objectively the most efficient way to play him is campy, so people in tournament do that instead
@@Splonton That’s not objective. Sonic’s rushdown game is just as good as his “campiness”, because the character itself basically has no unviable options. That’s why Sonic is a valid contender for best character in the game for a lot of people
@@RealBroccoliHour no it really isn't. The reason his camping playstyle is just objectively more viable is because the vast majority of characters have no answer to it. There's nothing they can do unless the sonic screws something up. With the rushdown style yeah it's still good, but more characters have a solution to being rushed down than being camped out
@@Splonton Sonic’s rushdown is just as good as his camping mainly because of invincible moves like Spin dash and all of its conversions, that’s the whole reason it’s used as a camping tool to begin with. An actually good aggressive Sonic is literally just as oppressive.
I'm a Sephiroth main. I agree that Sheik is pretty rough, but Pikachu is also ridiculously hard for him. Maybe more so. People think of Sephiroth as a slow spacing machine but one factor that is also tough is that a lot of his moves are precision. Really it's only his up-air, forward-tilt, and up-smash that don't require precision. Sort of Neutral-B too but that's just a different thing altogether. Landing meaningful hits on Pika is so hard. Not to mention that Seph is amazing at ledge trapping and solid at edge guards. That strength is pretty much nullified by Pika's total lack of disadvantage. I know Pika is a very generic bad match up but hot damn is he hard for this character. He's definitely got a few bad ones but probably the next worst is Sonic.
Pikachu isn't that bad once you really learn it, I think Tweek even put Sephiroth as winning. Personally I would recommend using Scintilla to counter Pikachu's up-B and neutral-B, as well as using orbs to nullify his neutral-B approaches. Nair is also helpful in this matchup, it is hard to learn at first but completely doable, don't worry!
@@marcmothersole8265 That surprises me a lot that Tweek put him as winning! I appreciate the encouragement! Honestly I actually do have a solid grasp on the match up with both Pika and Sheik. I can win against both for sure. But I've found that generally true in my experience. There's no match up where I feel like they're unbeatable with Seph. Against Pika what I've done that helps is use shield only to parry T-Jolt and focus on maintaining control with Shadow Flare and good spacing with Scintilla to catch Quick Attack and other burst options (sparingly). Luckily Seph has no problem with kill moves so after a little control just landing an F-Tilt or b-air tends to do the trick. Still a good Pika will use his small hurt box and pancaking to evade very effectively but with minimal effort. Maybe I can reevaluate the match up though and see it in Seph's favor!
@@d.a.d.-ohgosh bair doesnt hit pika easily, but you can use fair to poke him offstage, or retreating up air to cover air approaches. Both of these moves are easier to hit small characters with. T-Jolt approach doesn't work as like you said, Scintilla will fuck him up for trying it, AND side B goes through the t-jolt and nullifies it. You can kill Pika with up airs, catch him in shield with d smash, catch him grounded with f-tilts or get a bair read. A reliable method is to knock him offstage (fair is easy to do this with) and then edgegaurd or ledgetrap, if he tries to skip either phase by just quick attacking past you, Scintilla will activate and kill him. NOTE: Scintilla will NOT activate on Pichu's quick attack as it has no hitbox, making it significantly easier for him to get past you. The only matchup I think is REALLY bad for Sephiroth is Joker, I play Aegis for Joker because any good Joker player will never lose to you in this mu, unless you are miles better than them (just being miles better than people is not a reliable tournament winning strategy). Sheik is reliably winnable but definitely favours Sheik. Good luck and have fun bringing despair to Smash.
@@marcmothersole8265 don't think tweek has played very many top level pikas with seph. It's crazy how your opinion can change depending who you play.
Pika can low profile most of seph's aerials, which is a huge problem for him. Speed and T Jolt of course make neutral pretty difficult even if orbs intercept t jolt.
Coupled with the fact he could get edgeguarded pretty hard by pika, and is tall and incredibly light, it's pretty rough. He also can't camp on ledge because of Tjolt. Meaning it's really hard to adjust to the disadvantage.
As another sephiroth main yeah I agree. Skeik is bad, but pika is worse for all the reasons you listed
Honestly find Shulk's MUs rather interesting. He has a lot of favorable matchups against the new DLC (Steve, Terry, Kazuya, probably some others I'm missing) but Shulk tends to struggle hard against the traditional top tiers, like Palu, Snake, and Pikachu, and he goes even or losing against a lot of swordies.
he has crazy disjointed range for dealing with slow and hard hitting characters like Steve and kazuya but fast characters like pika run circles around him
edit: also if I had to guess, pika can edgeguard shulk pretty easily
like if the character does to swords, he kinda exemplifies the strengths and weaknesses of swordies to the max with arts and his stats
Shulk only exists to be the DLC slayer lmao
Not sure why some believe the Pikachu and Shulk matchup is favorable for Pika. It’s even imo
@@seviyasouji Mostly just a question of if Shulk can keep pikachu out, but pikachu has a good projectile and a very fast speed so shulk has to approach, and shulk thrives off of edgeguard kills, which is hard to do against Pikachu.
Greninja being the standout Hero counter is by far one of the weirdest and unexpected matchups. I didn't expect Greninja to be _anyone's_ worst matchup.
Greninja over here channeling Frog from Chrono Trigger, seeking revenge for DQ taking his game's spot.
This list is straight up wrong Hero does not lose to Greninja in fact it's the complete opposite as he destroys Greninja
@@mrwrighthen who destroys hero
@@meinman7591 unironically Hero himself at worst and realistically maybe Pikachu
a character O don't have and a character that dies to a lucky fsmash... fml
you know how painful it is, playing _3 different characters_ and having _ALL_ of their worst MU be Diddy?
that chimp lives in my goddamn nightmares....
Try picking up Rosalina, stealing the banana with down b is always a pleasure :)
Pick up Steve then
Duck Hunt supposedly does well against Diddy Kong.
Watching the gameplay of Sonic's spin dash just going right through minecart like 50 times: Yup, this has to be Steve's worst matchup
As a Sonic main, I was like, "..... That's genius! I never thought of that!" - also ngl, I'm hyped that Sonic tops Steve 🙌😆
Now someone's gotta make a comprehensive chart showing all these worst matchups in one place
I have a newfound respect for Sonic players.
Thank you very much good sir
id still rather watch steve and kazuya over sonic
I just just absolutely love the analysis type videos.
I play both Kazuya and Ganondorf. Min Min is abysmal in general, considering her arms (obviously) keep them away, because that’s what both characters want. It sucks, but that’s how it just goes.
Gannon definitely, but kazuya is able to get hits that are meaningful on min min. It's hard to get in, but he kills min min when he gets in. Plus Kazuya has gates of hell
@@dempseyt4976 yeah, the angle on that move has always been disgusting lmao.
@@SaulTeeNutz MU still bad for Kazuya, but it's not unwinnable, it's just difficult. Sonic actually looks unwinnable at top level
I do think Sonic is a worse matchup for Kazuya, but as someone who plays Min Min a lot, I agree that Kazuya feels like a pretty chill matchup. I rarely struggle against him. It's not free, but I agree that Min Min is very, very difficult for Kazuya.
@@juliamedina3322 Basically characters with opressive neutrals are the ones who can win against Kazuya. Pikachu and Sheik feel like a -1, Min-Min is a -2 while Sonic is a -3. Meanwhile Kazuya wins against almost everything who doesn't have immaculate neutral game. Kazuya is basically the most polarizing character in smash.
Love these informative videos! A video showcasing the ways characters can play vs different matchups would make for a good series
I love how like 75% of worst matchups are steve, shulk, game and watch, sonic and diddy.
These videos are really appreciated Jordan! If you want video ideas, maybe a video with something about frame data or a video on how to optimally train amiibos?
6:46 Not to mention that Pikachu can completely duck under Byleth's Neutral-B.
Why would you use Byleth's Neutral B unless the shield breaks?
@@weirdguy1495 Snipes and damage across the stage?
The uncharged version is good, but the full charge version is too committal for anything other than sniping off stage opponents.
a lot of characters can, you can just cancel it not really something that makes the mu worse since you're not using failnaught in neutral much anyway
@@wingedbluj1674 Not to mention the fact that certain characters can reflect it right back at him/her.
Oh, and Mr. Game & Watch can absorb it with his trusty little bucket.
These were a great trio of videos ! Keep it up my guy !
I like how the character that beats Steve and Kazuya, two of the most hated characters in the game, happens to be the absolute most hated character in Ultimate, surpassing even those two.
After I fight Sonic, I’m not sad that I lost, I’m just happy it’s over.
Steve’s worst MU is cloud bc back air beats minecart. This is why Acola has been struggling with Sparg0
and acola says sonic is even mu
Great video. Though I am pretty sure Steve's worst matchup is just Spargo
My thought exactly 😂
ya thats just spargo tho. Aint no other clouds beating steves tbh
@@kkokay4I see clouds beating Steves all the time
@@xanander4693that’s spargod cloud
That Steve vs Sonic match was painful to watch
Moral of the story
Don’t ban Steve from tournaments
Bring more sonics 🤣
Thx for making good videos Poppt
Awesome stuff!! As a sephiroth main I was suspecting pichu. Sheik can punish a little easier and spam on almost freely attack with her frame data. I would agree with you though
Steve vs Sonic: I used the cringe to destroy the cringe
I might pick up Sonic because I hate Kazuya
“It’s a sacrifice…I’m willing to make”
As someone who actually plays Sonic, i do kinda get scared whenever i face Kazuya because i know he can kill me at any moment if i'm not carefull. But yeah, if you are carefull and play smart you can wreck Kazuya pretty hard and it is pretty sattisfying.
@@robmacher3253 Thanks for the advice
Great series!
I had so much fun watching the vids Poppt
gr8 clips m8
Bob's your uncle was always a confusing phrase for me as a kid, I actually had an uncle named Bob so it was just a matter of fact
I am constantly bemused by how Sonic seems to consistently rip his fellow SEGA reps apart by design. First Bayonetta and now Joker.
you asked for more ideas, please keep doing every character in a tournament, I love those vids!
Ok this has been a really cool and informative series
It's finally out, been very curious about sephiroth and sora lmao
Here are the characters' worst matchups in roster order, with parentheses around characters whose worst matchup is Steve that have alternate options.
Samus/Dark Samus: Pichu and Pokemon Trainer
Yoshi: Jigglypuff
Fox: Pac-Man
Pikachu: Roy, Sonic, Palutena, Simon/Richter, and Byleth
Luigi: Fox
Sheik: Min Min and Sephiroth
Ice Climbers: Ken
Roy: Ike
Mr. Game and Watch: (Donkey Kong), Pikachu, Captain Falcon, Peach/Daisy, Falco, Lucario, ROB, Wii Fit Trainer, and Piranha Plant
Meta Knight: King K. Rool
Zero Suit Samus: Mr. Game and Watch, Meta Knight, and Incineroar
Snake: Shulk
Diddy Kong: Pit/Dark Pit, Pyra/Mythra, and Sora
Sonic: (Kirby), Marth/Lucina, Greninja, Mii Gunner, Bayonetta, Joker, Steve, and Kazuya
Olimar: Samus/Dark Samus, (Wario), Robin, and Banjo and Kazooie
ROB: Wolf and Ridley
Wolf: Zero Suit Samus
Mega Man: Snake and Duck Hunt
Rosalina: (Ryu)
Greninja: Hero
Palutena: Ness
Pac-Man: (Sheik), Diddy Kong, and (Little Mac)
Shulk: Mario, Yoshi, Dr. Mario, Corrin, (Inkling), and Terry
Cloud: Young Link, Olimar, Mii Brawler, and Cloud
Bayonetta: Mewtwo
Joker: Zelda, Chrom, and Mii Swordfighter
Hero: Villager
Min Min: Ice Climbers, (Ganondorf), and Mega Man
Steve: Donkey Kong, Kirby, Bowser, Sheik, Ganondorf, Wario, Little Mac, Bowser Jr., Ryu, and Inkling
Sephiroth: Luigi and Lucas
Pyra/Mythra: Link, Toon Link, Rosalina, (Bowser Jr.), and Isabelle
Kazuya: (Bowser)
Sora: Dedede
I like that this series was also technically an "every character's best matchups" video series, as well.
I never found out what Dedede’s best matchup is
@@Baxter_the_Octopus Probably either Ganon or DK.
@@TheSharkAntliterally the only two matchups I think favor dedede
@@Blackfedoraowner King Dedede apparently has a surprisingly good matchup with Peach. What do you think?
@@TheSharkAnt I would probably say that is even as a Dedede main. I don’t know how Dedede has an advantage over Peach.
I'd argue MK is just as bad for MinMin as Sheik is. MK can easily easily avoid MinMin's arms because of his multi-jumps and has the speed on the ground to easily catch up her, but most importantly has probably the easiest time in the world, not only getting her offstage, but edgeguarding her.
I’m a Banjo main and I know alot of people say Olimar is terrible but I think that TG has proven the matchup is more than doable. I think he tends to struggle more versus Fox/Greninja , basically just characters who can oppress him and not let him set up his gameplan
As a fellow Banjo main, I would say that in terms of olimar, he has a lot of moves the he can safely smack pikmin away with while setting up his combos, so it's not a big deal. Greninja and fox are super exploitable with his general gameplan because of 1) Fox's weight and 2) Greninja's dependence on grabs. I would say his worst matchup is easily Isabelle, just due to her ability to invalidate his game plan. you have to play some heavy mind games to win.
@@tallen3057 I'm a Banjo main and Isabelle doesn't annoy me nearly as much Fox and Olimar. Yes Isabelle can take away his grenade, but she's still very easy to avoid, and the fun of Banjo is avoiding the opponent till they mess up.
Sora being weak to Diddy makes sense. Those Powerwild monkey Heartless in KH1 are my Kryptonite.
Another interesting video you could make is a list of matchups where a low/mid tier beats a high/too tier like DK cloud for example
Apparent Mr. Game & Watch loses to Little Mac.
@@TheSharkAnt It's possible if Game & Watch fails to keep Little Mac offstage
I'd say for Terry due to being a main of Terry. I'd say Lil Mac because of his super armor. If Mac charges or uses down smash at the ledge, Terry wouldn't be able to recover due to the hit box on Terry's recover. It's painful to deal with.
2:47 Smooth description into the MU
As a seph player there are alot of bad mus for faster characters but i definitely feel like diddy is at least a honorable mention due to how easy it is for him to whiff punish and kill sephiroth while also applying pressure with the monkey flip mix ups, min min is also on the level of sheik imo
Watched them all, great work collecting data, although I still find it sus that your main is Mr. Game & Watch and he manages to be the counter to most characters. I’ll have to take him up and find that out myself.
You should watch and give commentary on some of the larger tournaments
Steve is cloud
😂
Steve's Worst Matchup: Sonic
Sonic mains: **Pop off Celebration**
The video, showcasing the best player for each character, would be interesting to watch
Definitely make one of these for smash 64
I would never expect a rich bendy fruit full of Potassium be deadly, but the Chimp proved me wrong😂😂😂
Remember Lanky's fight with K Rool? I think that is what is what Sakurai trying to reference.
I would love to see a video talking about everyone's worst mu
Feels so good to be a sonic main sometimes
I'm surprised you found footage of every single matchup. I'd think there'd be at least one no one's recorded a match of, especially since these are bad matchups.
Steve also struggles against characters with long range (not projectiles), such as Cloud, Sephiroth and Min Min.
shiek generally does pretty good vs. most swordies, i think because they dont have great escape options vs her combos and she is really good at edgeguarding their decent at best recoveries
Min min is just a swordie on crack
From all my sora experience the worst match up for me has been snake. Just hold/pull a grenade and it renders the three hit useless
I remember I tried the Olimar (me) vs. the Banjo (bro) matchup. Very abysmal for Banjo. Can't even Side B approach. The Pikmin tanking and making Banjo be stuck in place was horrendously bad for Banjo
As a seph main, i think robin and zss are his worst matchups. they are both extremely fast. they have mid range attacks that can do some noticeable damage. Robin's poison builds up percentage on the light seph making ko easier, and zss stunning seph is not good. zss also has the extended grab which is hard for seph who has no real good out-f-shield. and when you try to use any of seph range attacks, robin reflects or endures while samus either runs away of flips over them and is on top of you before you have a chance to recover and use the up neutral. It may sound odd, but I use slide a lot to initiate combos with seph and it is probably the best scenario for zss. slide, neutral air, down smash, octoslash, throw out a mega flaree in case they go higher, scintilla to edge guard. honestly, that is my best advice for any seph user
9:05 I think its undoubtedly ivysaur, steve loses his most oppressive option (block walls) against ivy cause his fair just destroys any blocks not to mention up air literally deletes the character
The problem is while it might be good at destroying blocks on level when recovering the blocks completely stop you.
You're trading off an advantage for a loss and up air is good against most characters because of its size.
@@Buglin_Burger7878Ivy’s recovery goes through blocks
You should do every characters best matchup
I honestly think that Cloud is an effective counter pick to Sora. He has a bigger sword, he hits harder, and has a much better Anti-combo game on top of being able to match his speed.
his aerials go crazy into sora too cuz of how floaty he is and how wide they are
I'd imagine Sora basically gets an edgeguard kill on Cloud any percent though. If Sora gets him offstage he could just run off, hold A, Cloud dies.
@@vision4860 If you get Cloud off stage it’s an easy kill, but you’ve got to deal with the giant sword first
I'm not here because i necessarily think you're wrong about the cloud counterpick (though spells really do hurt cloud and sora can edgeguard the crap out of cloud, so i wouldn't say it's too bad if bad at all, but i can see someone saying cloud-sora is good for cloud nonetheless)
but did you really just say cloud has better combos than sora? because that is flat out wrong, sora has infinite combos and even not including those sora has some crazy combos with double-jump canceling, such as down-tilt -> double jump cancel nair 1 -> nair 2 -> double jump cancel nair one -> nair 2 -Double jump cancel Fair 1 -> fair 2. -> down tilt -> fair 1/2/3 dealing 55%.
all this isn't even talking about how cloud doesn't have much of a combo game in the first place, with is combos usually being a grand total of 2 hits. namely Bair -> Dash attack or Up air -> up air, dealing around 25%.
@@undeadmyth9977 No, it’s that it’s harder to land the Sora combos on Cloud because of the range issue.
Also, since Sora’s sword has three different hotboxes, all with different amounts of hitstun, the spacing is also an issue, since you can’t just run up and start the combo from the hilt. Sora has to play with tippers to get anything done, which is a problem because Clouds sword still outranges him.
The core issue is the range and that Cloud can match his speed.
I’m gonna have to disagree pretty heavy on Sonic V Steve.I think a lot of people don’t take into account how much tnt does Vs sonic. Sonic can’t spin dash through the tnt. He’ll have to constantly spin dash over, jump over or wait. Which then can make up for all the burst speed of sonic, giving you plenty of time to get resources and cancel into a counterattack.
Personally I’d argue Sephiroth/Sora/Cloud are MUCH more oppressive for a Steve. They’re all faster then Steve and can put him in nasty disadvantage states. Steves best ways of getting back are blocks minecart and sometimes anvil. Sora and Sephiroth can challenge those moves very well. Cloud in general just counters campy gameplay and then has the big hitboxes and speed on top.
TLDR. Sonic is not as bad a matchup as Square Characters.
Also I neglected to mention tnt does not win you the MU against sonic but it makes it easier.
Former Sephiroth main, Sheik is a bad matchup but the worst for me was Fox. It's hard to stop Fox pressure, the frame data is insane against Seph and the advantage Fox has over Sheik is weight. Sheik dies far easier than Fox and does less damage even if she can combo you longer
This series is why my Ridley maining ass picked up Mega Man.
A new best combos or best kill confirms would be so cool
If every one starts maining Sonic to sort of counter Steve, im quiting the game
Say hello to Sonix.
Sonic is Steve's worst matchup, huh? I guess what it takes to defeat a spammy character... Is another spammy character.
I disagree with Min Mins worst mu I think MK is worse. All his moves clank with hers, edgeguards her really well, has his teleport move, and is small with a lot of jumps.
Speaking of Min Min I think they’re the hardest for Pyra and Mythra not diddy Kong although he’s up there.
I agree that Meta knight beats minmin, but it’s not worse than shiek. MK does get wall out a bit, and if you wait for him to land after dair camping, it’s not as bad.
I actually main both characters, and I agree that MK is awful for Min Min, and she's awful for Aegis. I do struggle more against Sheik with Min Min than against MK, but both are ridiculously hard. Diddy feels worse than Min Min for Aegis. Min Min is super difficult, don't get me wrong, but in general, when a character can out-neutral Mythra, you're in big trouble, and Diddy's neutral is just insane.
@@xanander4693 I may be biased but Sheik is still a tall character who’s light which means it’s easier to land hits on her than someone like MK but I’ll admit that sheiks needles are harder to deal with than most of MKs kit and speed as well
@@juliamedina3322 true diddy does do good against swordies just like Min min but he also has banana and good stage control with his item
Not cloud for Steve?
Sonic eating good with this one
On top of the matchups listed here, i'm aware he's also one of Byleth's worst matchups.
After watching everything, it seems like maining sonic with a pocket diddy would be a good strat.
Sure Mr. Game And Watch wins against half the matchups but Sonic has an even more important role: the DLC killer.
6:10 the shinymark in question:
Sonic is definitely a bad matchup for Joker but I wouldn’t say Joker loses that matchup harder than the Pikachu matchup. Bro cannot hit Pikachu it’s a pain in the ass
shulk counter: 6
steve counter: 10
mr game and watch counter: 10
marth/lucina counter: 1
olimar counter: 4
sonic counter: 10
luigi counter: 1
sephiroth counter: 3
palutena counter: 1
yoshi counter: 1
kazuya counter: 1
min min counter: 3
pac-man counter: 3
joker counter: 4
samus / dark samus counter: 2
cloud counter: 3
bayonetta counter: 1
pikachu counter: 5
zero suit samus counter: 3
diddy kong counter: 3
wolf counter: 1
mega man counter: 2
roy/chrom counter: 1
sora counter: 1
pyra and mythra counter: 4
ROB counter: 2
hero counter: 1
fox counter: 1
snake counter: 1
rosalina counter: 1
ice climber counter: 1
metaknight counter: 1
greninja counter: 1
sheik counter: 2
this the final result.
the steve counter is redundant, because poppt1 took the second worst matchup for each character.
As a Joker main I'd have to say Pikachu (and Pichu) over Sonic. Pika evades the bait and punish playstyle by just spamming neutral B and is very hard to combo with how small he is. Pika is also one of the few characters that can reliably edgeguard Joker and he can just camp when Arsene is out.
If you're a Joker main, try picking up a secondary that does decently against Pika. G&W is a good one that doesn't require too much effort imo
Why is Sonic easier for Joker?
I think cloud does steve much worse then sonic honestly… sonic doesnt have a reliable way to destroy blocks and dies early to diamond, almost all of clouds options clank or just beat out steves strongest attacks as well
I think Cloud might be better than Sonic vs Steve. Cloud's big fair and bair can break mine cart, and Steve cannot punish on shield.
We gotta have an every character's BEST matchup now
Alright, take a shot for every time Ganon is best MU.
I main banjo and I would argue falco also if ur using side b as a burst option to go through projectiles a lot idk what ur doing I mean it’s good sometimes but not close to the main use of that move
Can you please explain why you main banjo? This isn’t an insult I just don’t understand why anyone wants to play him
@@darkmewmewsans5481 There's plenty of people who main a character because they love the franchise they're from. As an example I know someone who mains Ness because Earthbound is his favorite game.
I'd assume that it's a similar case for OP since like you said, there's not much appealing about Banjo from a mechanics/gameplay perspective.
@@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569 That’s a fair point, I main Mega Man cause I love the games so I guess that’s fair
@@darkmewmewsans5481 I was born far after the series came out I just like him because I like bears in general as an animal and you can create crafty combos and allows for lots of improv in play which I find fun
@@Eli_Becker fair point, I respect that
To fight cancer *cough* steve you have to fight cancer with cancer *cough* sonic
My most played characters really don't like diddy kong: Pit/Dark Pit, Sora, Pyra/Mythra. To compensate it, I also play diddy kong and wolf.
You forgot that shulk can shield art out of terry’s combos 😂
Min min is byleth's worth matchup easily
But pika, shiek, and sonic are similarly hard imo
Can you make every characters best combo?
It's crazy how much hate Sonix specifically gets when KEN's sonic is ungodly levels of lame.
If sephis isnt pika, imma riot
Edit: Fair enough
Great now bring a video with every characters hypest matchup 0 0
Why is no one talking about how sonic counters Steve and kazuya and has no bad matchups
It’s funny how Sonic beats the other two Sega characters
Honestly I think Byleth's worst matchup is Min Min by far, but yeah pikachu is pretty bad too
Every characters best matchup please
Shiek is Sephiroth’s worst nightmare. Fox and Wolf are really close but they are more doable than Shiek since they at least have a hard time fighting Seph offstage or in another niche situation. On the other hand, Shiek just wins 😅
Best matchup next pretty please
I just like that no DLCs have a worst mu against another DLC
I think the worst matchup for Steve is cloud
This video is the reason why i came back to my sonic