What are the Best Watch Movements?
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- Опубліковано 6 сер 2024
- Serveral viewers have asked for a video on the best watch movements. The best ones are not necessarily the most expensive ones, but really excellent movements may be found for more affordable prices on the pre-owned market.
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![[EN] ETA or Sellita movements? Do you know what are they and what are the differences?](/img/n.gif)
One of the best is the ETA 2892-A2. The track record is there with millions made, they all are accurate within +-2 seconds, and they are durable as heck. Seems like a winner.
Yeah Hameal, it is a good solid movement. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Have this movement on my de Grisogono Uno Grande Seconde
Somewhere in UA-camville is a video on manually winding a Sellita movement; one of the gears is "flawed" in that the metal predisposes the gear teeth towards chipping & 'fuxing' up the movement, hard to find & remove the lil' bastard... thereby making the grinding unlikely to be properly (& cost-effectively) fixed.
Hi Bill.
You got me thinking about what's really important in choosing a watch, or even which watches I admire and why. Aided by a large cup of coffee, I'm going to watch (😊) this again.
You know, Phil, that's what I do, I have read and re-read or re-view watch information. Then I get it! Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Another great video, this time showcasing some excellent movements. Thanks as always Bill.
Hey Bruce, I was happy to see I could include Rolex and Omega movements ... instead of just hand-made ones like we got to see with Rolf's! Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Thank you Bill, educational as always.
The pleasure is mine, Tuneiupful! Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Thank you Bill for sharing, great video.
You are very welcome Johnny! Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Thank you Bill, great video!
My pleasure! Zhopperman! Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Love your content man! It’s like a master class on watches
Hey Angel, thanks man! Tale care. Bill
Thanks for explaining the difference Bill I'm gonna have to watch this a few times ,Stay Safe 😷
Keep in mind Junior, this whole video was requested by lots of subscribers, and so I had to do the best I could ... without making too long! (Attention spans being what they are...)If you find something in a re-view let me know. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
I've been catching up on all of your excellent videos. This is my favorite so far. A watch movement is the heart of the watch. Too many people focus on the dial on the brands. Appearances only go so far, however. Look under the hood. It's the engine that drives the watch. I would like to see a video about one movement, the Vaucher Fleurier VMF 5401 micro-rotor movement. It's a movement used by many brands. Would love to know your thoughts. Thank you.
I think I have a VMF 5401, David. It's an excellent movement. I just haven't taken the time to create a watch with it. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Thank you, Bill. As I've said, I know nothing about watches. It's a humble request but, if you someday have time, I would love to see a video examining and explaining everything about the VMF 5401 movement. BTW, I'm an artist. I dream. I would love to design a watch dial based on the Patek Philippe Ref 96. It would take me awhile but I think it could be a modern masterpiece. I would make mock-ups in Photoshop and Illustrator and get your opinion.
Thanks, Bill for the great video, I think there are two types of best movements, one best from the artistic point of view (looks good, innovative, maybe handmade), and the other best type of movement is the workhorse kind like for example Rolex movements, ETA 2829, or even Seiko NH35.
I wish more movements were like Marcos Lang's...open in the back to see all the works clearly. Visible craftsmanship. Take care and stay well, Bill😷
@@watchartsciNH70A would be a treat for you.
Hi Bill, great video. Daniels book is a great read if you really want to know about watches.
I’ll do some controversy for you. For me, great movements are those that make watches people actually buy better. And those improvements usually only come from years of R&D, not from single experiments like in the GPHG competition.
For me, as my top 3, in 3rd place I would go with the Omega. Not just because of the co-axial, but mostly because of the master chronometer certification. Making a watch so it can stand up to all manner of practical situations (water, shocks, magnatic fields, accuracy, ...) is a feat of a lot of R&D.
For 2nd place, a movement build after 7 years of R&D and launched in 1969, the Zenith el primero. Imagine making such a complex movement (36000bph, 1/10 second accurate chronograph, 50hrs power reserve, relative small) that nobody even attempts to beat it in the 50 years since!
And for first place, the latest and greatest from the best R&D watch company in the world, the Seiko 9SA5. I could have gone for the T0, but as that is not in an actual watch, it didn’t qualify for me. But all the new technology in the 9SA5, using their innovations made over the years, giving a 36000bph movement with 80hrs of power reserv in a small package, is really impressive!
BTW, this does not mean I dissagree with your analysis, I just use different parameters for defining the best watch movements.
Naturally, I value the importance of R&D, and Defy Labs at Zenith is certainly a great example of a "skunk works" in a watch company. Same with Seiko and Omega. However, RsRs, I've come to value more a single brilliant watchmakers like Marco Lang, F.P. Journe or Daniel Roth. However, you're right, we both appreciate good mechanical watches...just from slightly different perspectives. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Spring drive(biggest innovation in watchmaking)is just head and shoulder more revolutionary than any of this movement, it combined all previous movements with perfect accuracy and mesmerising rotation of seconds dial.
It's a tech marvel as is the smart watch. Take care, Dado! Bill
Excellent topic and very well put accross.
Hey Paddy, thanks man! Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Thanks Bill.Always learn from your videos and the French key wound is very appealing but scared to see how much they are.All the best.
Yes, Richard, that French watch is listed at 80k CHF, but I think he makes other ones in a more affordable range ... using keys. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Excellent Dr. Bill!
Hey Harvey, thanks man! Take care, Bill
Thank you Bill, very nice video, my favourite Is Gege' LeCoultre, greetings from Rome. Ciao ciao ☺👍✋
Glad you enjoyed it, Dom, and once I can pronounce Jaeger-LeCoultre ... it'll be even better! Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Fine vid Thanks!
Hey Jazz! Thanks man! Take care, Bill
Another great video, I enjoy these technical and detailed topics. I heard Adrian Barker interview Roger Smith on a podcast and that was fascinating. He‘s definitely a lower VPH proponent, for the reasons you mention. Do you think there will be a trend in mid-tier independents making/using more sub-28,800 vph movements?
Ced, I may be wrong, but for a number of reasons, it's less expensive to make the 4Hz balances; so I don't expect the mid-tier movements to drop below 28,800vph. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Legendary movements are the Valjoux 7750 and variants, Lemania 2310 and variants, Patek 215 MW and 240, ALS SAX-O-MAT, L&H Caliber VI, Rolex 3135.
If you include the 7750, you'll need the El Primero, Southnc.... nothing wrong with that. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
My education continues! Thanks! Could you argue its a case of performance vs reliability? Automated manufacture vs artisan? Computer vs eye... laser vs hand!
Interesting you're not a fan of silicon components. I've heard this elsewhere (and strangely share it myself), but never heard any engineering justification? Yes, you can't repair it so long term (10? 20? 50...100 years?) you'll need replacement parts, but anything else? For sure, it's anything but bench made. But it seems to be ok for JLC (though not Rolex). As for beat rate, what do you think about Breguet's 10Hz?! The 500 GP motorcycle of movements, or a crash about to happen!? I'm certainly fascinated by the magnetic bearing concept.
With very little published accuracy testing now, these things become a bit academic vs long-term reliability and ease of servicing. So, surely the 'chronometer' category at GPHG should include an accuracy trial? Accuracy really is the only point of a chronometer!
To some extent you may be exactly right, James; performance vs. reliability. The finely tuned hand-made watches may not be able to sustain their precision while the more pedestrian tool watches have less elegance, higher frequency and better reliability. As for the accuracy trials of the GPHG chronometers; I would imagine they have the most expensive and accurate timegraphers available, but they may lose points for higher speeds masking fine craftsmanship. I really don't know. I'll try and contact my friend who used to be an GPHG judge and see if he know. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
ETA 6497-1 Why? Rock solid, easy to work and find parts for, accurate, affordable and good looking. Something special about hand wind movements. Can be found in watches costing less then $1000 all the way up to $10,000. Maybe its not the best movement but it definitely is the best movement for the 💰 money by a land slide.
Desmo, you forgot to mention the '-1' series are 2.5Hz (the '-2' series are 3Hz). Lots of cool watches with the Unitas/ETA 6497/8 movements.Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Great topic
Nice video mate
Hey Tim, thanks man! Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Relative to the Moser, the Straumann hairspring is made out of Novarix, which I don't believe is the same material as Rolex. In addition, the bridge is designed to allow quick replacement of the entire free sprung balance module, turning maintenance of your watch a matter of hours, not days.
Hi wysiwyg...the Straumann hairspring is a combination of niobium and titanium while Rolex uses niobium and chromium-both developed in part by the same person.🤫 Take care, Bill
Just an idea ofcourse, but I would love a follow up on this video; what other parts make a movement great? Kind regards, Eelco
That's a tough one Eelco! Let me see what I can do. Take care, Bill
Nice timepiece on your wrist :-D
Hey Mpp Didi! Thanks man! Get your shot and go outside! Bill😎
Hello Bill. Please tell me which one should I choose. Omega seamaster 300 diver 43,5 mm ceramic, JLC polaris blue or Jlc master diver chrono . It would be for this Christmas , thanks , Alex
I like them both, but I'd go for the JLC. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Thanks. I was thinking 65% for it!
Hi Bill! Can you make a video telling us about your opinion on silicon components on watchmaking?
Brian, I can tell you without a video: there are many advantages to silicon in terms of both non-deterioration and non-magnetism. However, there are advantages to quartz and smart watches too. Using silicon does not require the watchmaking skill nor metallurgy that a metal one does. As such, while great for mass production, I find it a short cut to craftsman ship and skill. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci thank you Bill!
Bill, this subject -- "best" movements -- has no resolution of course. i was surprised that you put such emphasis on free-sprung balance however because the merits of it are unclear to me as a user. My modest ($400-$900) collection of mechanical watches contains two with free sprung balance wheels: the ETA Powermatic 80s of course. They work well enough but i can only get them regulated by Swatch USA . . . but, stipulating that, what exactly is the reason i would prefer them over 2824s (leaving other factors like power reserve out of it)? Would you say having free sprung is a major advantage over the 2824?
Hi Gary, you're right, I didn't talk much about the advantages of the free sprung balance. Essentially, it's maintaining a constant length of the hairspring and certain other problems caused by curb regulators. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci Bill, i know next to nothing about the details of the mechanical engineering issues associated with watches, other than to immensely respect those that do. i suppose if i were serious i should get George Daniel's book. From a materials science point of view, i should suppose that the curb regulation causes a stress concentration in the hairspring which cannot be a good idea for fatigue life or long term time keeping/hysteresis. But why are you hostile to silicon hairsprings? Does your view extend to other related silicon alternative uses, such as (apparently) entire escapement pieces like Breguet? Bill . . . there is no END to the interesting podcasts you could do. Manufacturers present these things as if there are no downsides . . . gary
@@garybliss5673 I'm not hostile to silicon per se, and of course, they have many qualities that make them both more consistent and less magnetic ... they're magnetic to about a factor of 0. By the same token, I know that quartz movements are more accurate than even the most fine tuned mechanical watches. However, I choose not to collect watches with quartz movements. They just don't interest me. That doesn't mean I'm 'hostile' to quartz; it just means I find mechanical watches far more interesting. Take the Straumann hairspring, developed by H. Moser. By using an alloy of titanium and niobium they were able to create a strong, non-magnetic and consistent hairspring. (Considering H. Moser sells around 2,000 new watches annually and 50,000 Straumann hairsprings, those hairsprings are valued by most independents as well.) If Breguet uses silicon, it's their choice, and like it or not, it's based on more than just the quality of the material. Easier to manufacture in bulk and maintain. Instead of adjustment, they're simply replaced. That's Breguet's choice, but not mine. Nothing against those who think otherwise, though. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
"silicone hairsprings ......a slippery slope on the way up to a smart watch"
Too much drama Andy? Maybe so... 😁 Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci Great quote Bill, I found it amusing and interesting. It sounds like you prefer traditional methods and materials. I never thought about the hair spring this way, I just thought it's an improvement because magnetic fields wont effect it. Really if one's this concerned about fields effecting the spring maybe that environment's not a suitable place to bring a watch
Does the Rolex Calibre 3230 have a rated antimagnetic rating?
Good question Moreshwar! It has the Parachrom hairspring which is made of a paramagnetic alloy, making it effectively immune to magnetic interference, but no rating like the Milgauss. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci thank you. You too take care.
Does Habring2 use silicon hairsprings
Francis, Habring2 uses Carl Haas hairsprings, which uses Nivaflex45/5 which contains 45% cobalt, 21% nickel, and 18% chrome. No silicon. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Hi Bill any comments on BNB movements that Laurent Ferrier uses?
Eddie, "BNB?" ... what is that? Bill
@@watchartsci Buttet, Navas and Barbasini, it is BNB concept movements
@@eddiedevonrex2308 Thanks! That is a watchmaking group I definitely need to learn about. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Thanks Bill, rumor has it that u were the secret Santa winner of the Nautilus Tiffany for a 😎 5.5 million
@@eddiedevonrex2308 Rats! Nobody was supposed to know that!
Hey Bill what's your pick?
Vaucher or Concepto
Vaucher, Redlox. Not certain about Concepto. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci thank you. what do you mean by not certain about Concepto? you have heard of them before?
www.conceptowatch.ch/movement/calibre-1053/
@@RedloxBeats I know who they are, and perhaps that's part of my hesitancy. Finding out about the details of their company is the reason. Start with this ( www.jckonline.com/editorial-article/arrest-of-jaquet-sa-boss-stirs-swiss-watch-business/ ) and follow it to the current Concepto. This is not to say that the sins of the father are visited on the son, but I was told the on the QT JPJ is still involved ... which actually could be a good thing. Let me know what you think. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci I did not understand something. is Jean-Pierre Jaquet CEO of Concepto now? was Concepto involved in counterfeiting Rolex watches? ha ha. My English is not the best but from what I
@@RedloxBeats No Jean-Pierre Jaquet's son, Valérien Jaquet, runs Concepto not far from where Jaquet, SA (now La Joux-Perret) is located. Valérien was not involved at all in the scandal in the early 2000s. Jean-Pierre was banned from the watchmaking industry, but rumors abound that he's involved is some unseen ways in Concepto. However, I have great respect for Jean-Pierre's talents; so it may not be a bad thing if he is. Take
What caliber’s on a watch?
It's just the name of the movement, Prashant. I'm working on a watch now with an ETA 6498, and one of my German watches has a caliber VI movement. Just a name. Take care, Bill
My 5626 is currently running at five seconds fast per week.
The Seiko 5626 certainly sounds like a good movement, Ace. Take care, Bill
Do you like Dornblueth & Sohn watches?
They're ok, Chin-hwan ... a good entry level in-house watch with good design and in-house horology. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Big wheel keep on turning
Indeed it does Andy! Cheers, Bill
😍😍😍🎆
Hey WA, I'm glad you liked it. Take care, Biil
It’s very subjective question and vary from one to another , If we think of it , most people chose in term of aesthetic. But if you take it objectively some ETAs and F piguet are ones of most reliable and accurate movements in market and it could go far by competing or being better than some of it house movements that has better finishing and beautiful structure , nothing more . Jack Foster has a point in one of his article : A Reader Asks, 'Are ETA Movements Ever OK In High-End Watchmaking?'.
No Mohamed, it's not entirely subjective. I strongly suggest you take a look at George Daniels' "Watchmaking," and you'll see (among other things) why a free sprung balance is better than a curb-regulator. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
7750
More Space Wave. Bill
We think seiko 5 watches are fairly cheap and best
A classic with horological history Manu! Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci i have seiko 5 1983 model still works without overhaul shows Right time weekly slows one minute thank you sir thank for yours Advice
Pretty, but at 2.5 hz, not that accurate
William, a well made 2.5Hz is better than an assembly line 4Hz. Take care, Bill
:)
Haaaaaaaa-vvvvveeeeee! Take care and be safe, Bill 😷