Although true, I'd say Julian Glover was the true presence in this particular scene. The way he unfolds from a timid, stuttering old man into this tall, proud thespian is just masterful.
Couldn't you consider the confirmation that Tywin *knows* about Pycelles charade a positive charge? Up until that point we're under the impression nobody is aware of Pycelles true nature, they all think him the decrepit fool. But this scene confirms that at least one person has caught on, one of the most powerful men in the kingdoms knows, he isn't as secret as he thinks.
@@warpedwhimsical which one? the one with rose or are you talking about another one? the one with rose has disctractions (hehe) and no tension especially since it's partly played for laughs
@@maxmustermann-zx9yq Eh it does have distractions but there's quite a large scene portion where he stands up and stretches, clearly very vital and capable, and then as he gets dressed he very clearly goes into his act of a stooped back, weakness and doddering speech, etc
The scene where Tyrion wakes up after the battle of the Blackwater, Pycelle is looking down at him. When he talks to Tyrion, he does it in this same thing, standing tall, not stuttering and weak sounding. So the show already established there is more to Pycelle
We already knew that though. There is a scene in season 2 where he had just finished... soliciting Ros's services... where he is talking about the kings he's served and pretends to be becoming senile. Ros quickly excuses herself, and when she is gone, Pycelle drops the act, stands up straight, stretches, and briskly walks out of frame.
That was probably another reason why they deleted it: they realized by that time that they had very little more story to develop with Pycelle. If they'd had him more involved with later episodes, it would've made sense to include it. Glad we got to see it, though!
we do see it in the episode where he gets ready, he like squats and cracks his back and is pretty spry for an oldie. but HEARING it is actually crazy lol
I had a feeling it would be this scene. I'm actually pretty sad it wasn't included because of previous scenes, but it makes sense all things considered.
I was about to say that Tyrion Sansa wight takedown scene was the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen but then I remembered half of the actual scenes that made it into that episode made no logical sense
Awesome breakdown of value charges! I do like the “canon” Pycelle’s reveal though. I like the mundanity of it, the everyday manner of “ah shit, here we go again, back to work.”
You could argue it shows that Tywin respects Tyrion's decisions as acting hand. That he, on some level, DOES value and respect Tyrion's intellect. Although there are other scenes that show Tywin acknowledging this, I dont think there many that do that "in private", as in when Tyrion not being in the room.
I heard Jim Downey on Conan's podcast say about his comedic writing that if you're cutting lean you're in good shape. This is the definition of cutting lean, back when the show was so good and well-written that a scene like this could be left on the floor.
I love the scene, but I would have done it differently. In the books Twin and Pycelle have know each other for decades and they probably conspired when taking KL and at many other points in time. I would have shown how he was always Tywin's creature, which would have achieved the same surprising turn but story wise it would have bolstered both Tywin, who is now recontextualized as a someone who always had someone in Roberts council and works on many levels to gain power, but also shown that Tyrion had it right when he dismissed him. Even more it would have turned the dismissal into a (unknown) move against Tywin rather than Cercei, which foreshadows the eventually clash between Tywin and him
Yeah, as good as this scene is on its' own merits, the idea that Pycelle would have worked for Tywin for decades and not even told him is pretty absurd.
This^, and also this scene only works if Pycelle is lying about his motivations (most likely, his loyalty to the Lannisters). He seems to be revealing his competence here, but his stated goals are not compatible: 1) only wishing to "remain in the garden" 2) being, essentially, fully loyal to the Lannisters for no immediate gain. Tywin should detect the contradiction A later scene that shows how these goals might easily conflict, and Pycelle's response, would justify Pycelle's characterization here. But without that, this scene is just melodrama.
Tywin (at least show tywin) is one of my favorite characters. He skins a deer (like charles dance even did in real life for the scene apparently) for supper. He's shown fishing in this scene also for supper. He's the most self-reliant character in the whole show. If I were stranded on a desert island I'd want him to be with me cuz we'd be eating wild boar at day 2 and at day 15 I'd be married off to the local tribe priestess for 6 plots of land but hey I'd be 100 percent down for this.
He's seems to very much embody the word "competent", though his treatment of Tyrion shows no one can be perfect. Maybe "ruthlessly practical" would be a more accurate term.
Do you mean that Tywin was killing the fish as a metaphor for what befell House Tully? And Pycelle is proposing to deal damage to the Tyrells somehow to weaken them?
I like to think it’s a case of the show runners subconsciously putting deep elements from GRR Martin into the show, but not understanding their relationship, as they lack integrity. But that’s just little ole me.
You're right that this scene doesn't tell us anything about Pycelle that we don't already know. One thing it does show us that we don't see anywhere else though is Tywin being aware of and respecting the decisions Tyrion made as hand. For all we see in the rest of the show, Tywin might have as well have just come in and hit the reset button on everything Tyrion did. This scene however shows us that, as dismissive as Tywin was of him to his face, he was aware of what Tyrion did as hand, and agreed with and respected at least some of it. That is something we never get in the show and a bit of nuance that would have added a lot more depth to their relationship.
I love Tywin making powerful characters do trivial and insulting tasks like carrying fish or fetching him paper and quills and watching them do it without question because he is more powerful and formidable than anyone else by far more than anything else
A pretty important thing about this scene that gets unnoticed is that Tywin is fishing. It means that he’ll attack house Tully soon, the same way he attacked house Baratheon when he was skinning a stag at his introduction scene. RR Martin is very much influenced by Seakspeare and the Ancient Greek theatrical authors such as Euripides and this scenes shows it.
@@Dimitris_1987 yeah, unless it were some unsung writer in the room - d&d made a lot of really positive additions in the first few seasons, pretty much anything without a book pov present. Robert/cersei, littlefinger/varys, viserys/jorah - they deserved praise for a while there.
They deleted the scenes because spoiled the red wedding : Season 1 Tywin is peeling a deer (Robert Baratheon) Season 3 is burning the wolves fur and rebuilding "Ice" (the Starks) Now this, fishing some . . . Tullys
How many normal viewers (that is, non-book viewers) actually got the symbolism of most of the families outside of Stark and Lannister? Nobody I know who watched the show would have made that connection. I would, but I read the books. Or am I just being a book snob and underestimating the viewers?
Oh this scene. I imagine this scene was removed because it fit too much within Varys’ and LF archetypes as this is both their exact strategies so it’d be a bit weird to have 3 people with the exact same strategy to be in the small council.
Great video. Something else i like about this scene that goes along with a scene from season 1. Tywin has hobbies. Season 1 we see him butchering a buck. Here we see him fishing. Its symbolism in that the animals are represent different families. But this also serves to characterize Tywin. He does things in his free time. He doesn't mind getting his hands dirty.
4:18 this is an amazing visual shot. In the scene Tywin is the smallest person dwarfed by the immense structure that has stood for probably centuries. Even at his most vulnerable and smallest looking in stature, he's still seems to cast a wide shadow.
Thank you for explaining the value charge, you made so much sense and I just stumbled on this video because I binge watching GoT videos. Youve inspired me to revisit a story I was trying to write but I wasnt happy with how I was writing it and you've made me feel so much better about it. Thank you again
If there is one core strength of GOT it is their excellent use of visual metaphors. Even later seasons do it well. As bad as the dothraki charge was tactically, visually it was a spectacular moment as the inspiring flaming swords ignited 10 seconds ago were snuffed out one by one by the dark.
Very cool to see coverage of this scene, really love it and wish it was included in the show! Whenever I show someone Game of Thrones, I also show them this scene, because it really feels like it should have been included.
Firstly, let’s all take the time to understand how godlike gorgeous this man is. Then appreciate how well he can articulate the beauty of an amazingly written scene.
Honestly the Ros scene should’ve been the one to hit the cutting room floor. The deleted dynamic between two well-crafted book characters shouldn’t fall victim to David and Dan’s Original Character Do Not Steal. A damned shame.
Your voice is like sweet nectar on the wind. You remind me of a young Christopher Judge. I watched a lot of stargate growing up so your voice is very calming. This is my first time seeing your channel. Thanks for the content my brother keep up the good work.
Excellent breakdown, both of how a hard decision to cut a strong scene is made, and also of scene structure in general. In learning writing, trying to think of an individual scene in a three act structure and with protag/antagonists with a clear goal and obstacle is one of the hardest parts.
Id argue the scene DOES add to the audience's viewpoint and the story itself in a pretty major way. Its not so much that Pycell is an agent of Cersei and by extension Tywin, or even that Tywin knows as it IS pretty stupid how no one sees through the rouse. No, the real information that changes the story is that Tywin calls it out right to Pycell's face. Now Pycell knows that HE knows, and now that all the cards are on the table hes able to be put fully on offense, which you see in the small council interactions after the Battle of the Blackwater in the show.
the season one scene didn't do enough to establish pycel's falsehood, the season 2 scene was needed for furtherment of his character development and removing it was a mistake
The season 1 scene aught to have been removed, both to let attentive viewers catch onto his facade organically, and to allow a superior scene to inform the less perceptive after a few remarkable uses of said facade. Imagine Pycelle acting the fool as an aspirant at court gets arrested or banished, and he just glances over with an ill-contained self-satisfied expression.
This is the first video I’ve watched of yours with you in it not just your disembodied voice and somehow this is both exactly what i was expecting and not at all what i was expecting
i think it would have felt strange for them to only be having that conversation at that point in time. like, why not ever in the many years prior that they knew and (at times) worked together? i also actually rather liked the subtlety of the s1 scene. however if they were to put in a scene like the above it would be more believable to me if tywin was already in the know (either they are around others and pycell drops the pretense when the others leave, or just changing the line of interruption from tywin to something more in the tune of “why the hell are u acting like that when it’s just us here”)
i am not a book reader. i really want to be but they intimidate me lol but seeing the scene and seeing Pycelle go from this fragile thing to a man who speaks like that absolutely BAFFLED me. and i REALLLLY wish they kept it in the show.
Read the books. If my elderly father who preferred non-fiction or American Westerns can get into them, you can. He loved them, as well as the Harry Potter series. Alas, he died 5 years ago, before he found out how things wind up. If my mother had lived longer, I bet she would have liked them, too.
I'd add I think the reason this scene is so powerful is that by the time it takes place in the story, we understand what's going on. We didn't really in the first season, and we were too busy trying to put all the characters in their place then. By the time this takes place in the story, it has meaning, whereas the one with the chick in the first season doesn't.
The Ros (pronounced Rozz, not rose) scene is a better choice because it also gives the audience a glimpse into her new day-to-day now that she's come to the capital. She left Winterfell headed to King's Landing but we get to see that she didn't end up solely in Baelish's brothel or worse, in Flea Bottom. Additionally, we already had a scene with Tywin showing his "hunter" prowess with him dressing a dear carcass. The audience didn't need to see that he can also unalive a fish. That just feels repetitive. To your point, all the information in the deleted scene is already info we knew but the nugget about Ros's new place in King's Landing is "value positive" information. I dont think they chose the scene they did for "sexposition" as you put it. Coming to that conclusion ignores the other character in the scene entirely.
I still say it's a shame this seen was deleted. While it may (arguably) not convey new information, it's a damn well done scene that displayed Pycel's character on a new level. Also, it's always great to see more Tywin.
I actually learned about the three acts of a scene in terms of DM'ing. The intro, I learned as "the hook", and learned to avoid exposition during that time, since exposition is reserved for when the players are already interested (hooked).
Great video. Agreed with everything you said. All I’d add is that we never heard Pycelle speak in a non-feeble voice, so there was still ENOUGH rooms for some fans to speculate if maybe he wasn’t faking, especially by season 8. So, I think they might have also thought making SUCH a direct scene about Pycelle removed too much room for interpretation
i think the scene still expands on where his loyalties are and reminding the audience of this dynamic is also important. It's also good story telling to create parallels to previous events. Having that seen just adds to the foreshadowing and it improves the show as a whole.
I remember seeing this cut scene and wondering _why_ did they ever cut it? Makes more sense now. I do wish they'd kept this, in favor of either or both of the others. And, oof the phrase "sometimes you have to kill your darlings" cuts deep. My life got turned upside down recently but, before it did, I was working on a scene for a story that, even as I wrote it, and as hyped as I am about it, I'm pretty sure is already destined for the Cut Clips Folder, before I'm even through writing it. Didn't expect that emotional knife twist. :3
This scene would have added so much to his character. We see him kinda put on the old man act in one early episode, and in his death scene, he fights back much better than you'd expect. This scene should have tied it all together.
I think that scene should have been left in. It would have reinforced the previous S01 scene, as it could easily have been missed. Plus it was a cool scene!
It's bad for tywin's character arc to have him see through Pycel, it's bad for Pycel to admit everything like this. It's a good scene but bad for the story.
After rewatching seasons 1-5, it's bittersweet with Tyrion's trial before his father and the court. On 1 hand, it's so good him being on trial and the acting and jamie trying to help as best he can. On the other hand (except for jamie fookin Lannister ha ha ha) after the hearing is done so is Tyrion's character basically. He becomes a shell of what he used to be, almost all of the character's after the trial end up like that.
You have quite an epic voice :) Oh, well, I gotta add this; the scene where Tywin is fishing, I actually had a beer on that exact spot last april :D Cheers
I disagree with the main thesis of this video. I think that it was left out because it would add the idea that his father supports Thyron, while in reality (even though he recognizes that he is clever) will never completely accept and stand . (Remember the words to his son when he returned and discharged him from his Hand position.) And that he likes better to relax fishing than being in command. Which along with creating power, is his total passion. I also don't think the scene with the prostitute boring, as it reveals how far can reach his commitment with his acting of decrepit man, that even with the less powerful and socially irrelevant people he continues it. And moments later, in his total solitude, just with a few stretches and change of posture he reveals the facade of the character, undubtly changing 180 degrees all the past interpretations of his actions by the viewers.
it was deleted likely because it was a plot point that didn’t really go anywhere, and there were many other more important scenes that needed the screen time also, the dialogue here was okay, but was a little hamfisted and on the nose
I've seen some of your videos before and decided to check your channel out and holy shit youtube really decided to recommend this one to everyone didn't they? Not complaining tho this was a bomb ass video and i really enjoyed your explanations and breakdowns.
I think it's crazy cause I spent this entire time having already seen this scene and thinking it was part of the actual show. I had no knowledge of it being a cut scene
I must have blinked during the Rose scene but I do remember the Tyrion scene though. I agree with your assessment of the Tywin scene that it should have stayed but I don't agree with the Jaime/Briene scene that it had neutral value. It does change the narrative of the Kingslayer.
The early game of thrones were so much fun so many of the dialogues gave a subtle hint to what is going to occur in the future of the show or even hints to some of the theory from the books to be true such as in the first episode "you might if you knew what it ment " in context of jon wanting to join the nights watch and benjin telling what it really means to become member of the nights watch (i always saw it as him telling jon what he is going to miss out on like having a family or such . But after reading the books and on rewatch of the show i thought it was a refrence to jon not begin a bastard stark but a dragon there are hints in the books that benjin new about lyana and rhaegar .
Pycelle is actually a badass in this scene. He stands tall and and has an honest and assertive conversation with the much feared Tywin Lannister himself.
But isn’t there some value charge in the scene, considering we learn that Tywin knows about Pycelles supposed frailty, while we also learn why Pycelles acts like this
The weirdest part of this scene for me is that I've been to that location in real life when I visited Dubrovnik in 2015, and that location is a kayak rental shop. Like those stairs onto the beach literally had piles of kayaks stacked up, and you just jetty off into where Tywin is fishing and go off for a journey 😂 I can never unsee it 😅
For a modern TV show made for streaming, where varying episode lengths are acceptable, even 'useless' scenes that are enjoyable to watch but don’t significantly advance the plot can still be beneficial, as long as the added cost of including them isn’t too high. Game of Thrones was at its best during relaxed scenes where a small group of characters interacted in ways that were consistent with their personalities.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Charles Dance simply commands any scenes he's in.
Julian Glover does a great job here too though!
They are both masterful actors and there were some powerful performances in the show.
Tywin , is the man. No comparison
One does not just out act Charles Dance in a scene
Although true, I'd say Julian Glover was the true presence in this particular scene. The way he unfolds from a timid, stuttering old man into this tall, proud thespian is just masterful.
Couldn't you consider the confirmation that Tywin *knows* about Pycelles charade a positive charge? Up until that point we're under the impression nobody is aware of Pycelles true nature, they all think him the decrepit fool. But this scene confirms that at least one person has caught on, one of the most powerful men in the kingdoms knows, he isn't as secret as he thinks.
it is also the only scene I remember that clearly confirms, that there even is a deception by Pycelles
@@maxmustermann-zx9yq I mean it’s thr only time it’s outright said, but it’s made extremely obvious in a prior scene
@@warpedwhimsical which one? the one with rose or are you talking about another one? the one with rose has disctractions (hehe) and no tension especially since it's partly played for laughs
@@maxmustermann-zx9yq The one in which he speaks to Tyrion after he wakes up in his quarters after the Blackwater.
@@maxmustermann-zx9yq Eh it does have distractions but there's quite a large scene portion where he stands up and stretches, clearly very vital and capable, and then as he gets dressed he very clearly goes into his act of a stooped back, weakness and doddering speech, etc
"is it possible that so many people could have been stupid for so long?" the way he glares down Pycelle, holy moly
"I could have you returned to the dirt this afternoon, if you like."
........when shit gets cold, I gets the chillz.
that line was simply savage. as in: you're treading on thin ice, be careful. charles dance is such a great actor.
Honestly any scene with Tywin is probably the best scene of that episode.
The scene where Tyrion wakes up after the battle of the Blackwater, Pycelle is looking down at him. When he talks to Tyrion, he does it in this same thing, standing tall, not stuttering and weak sounding. So the show already established there is more to Pycelle
This would’ve been a great scene to add to the show. It’s shown that Pycell is more… springy than he appears but they never take it anywhere
We already knew that though. There is a scene in season 2 where he had just finished... soliciting Ros's services... where he is talking about the kings he's served and pretends to be becoming senile. Ros quickly excuses herself, and when she is gone, Pycelle drops the act, stands up straight, stretches, and briskly walks out of frame.
@@j-rey- I know. It just would’ve been a nice addition and definitely would have made his mental acuity more apparent
That was probably another reason why they deleted it: they realized by that time that they had very little more story to develop with Pycelle. If they'd had him more involved with later episodes, it would've made sense to include it. Glad we got to see it, though!
Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
we do see it in the episode where he gets ready, he like squats and cracks his back and is pretty spry for an oldie. but HEARING it is actually crazy lol
I had a feeling it would be this scene. I'm actually pretty sad it wasn't included because of previous scenes, but it makes sense all things considered.
I was about to say that Tyrion Sansa wight takedown scene was the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen but then I remembered half of the actual scenes that made it into that episode made no logical sense
Awesome breakdown of value charges! I do like the “canon” Pycelle’s reveal though. I like the mundanity of it, the everyday manner of “ah shit, here we go again, back to work.”
You could argue it shows that Tywin respects Tyrion's decisions as acting hand. That he, on some level, DOES value and respect Tyrion's intellect. Although there are other scenes that show Tywin acknowledging this, I dont think there many that do that "in private", as in when Tyrion not being in the room.
I love the final shift in Pycelle's voice at the end of the scene. Putting that mask back on.
I heard Jim Downey on Conan's podcast say about his comedic writing that if you're cutting lean you're in good shape. This is the definition of cutting lean, back when the show was so good and well-written that a scene like this could be left on the floor.
I love the scene, but I would have done it differently. In the books Twin and Pycelle have know each other for decades and they probably conspired when taking KL and at many other points in time.
I would have shown how he was always Tywin's creature, which would have achieved the same surprising turn but story wise it would have bolstered both Tywin, who is now recontextualized as a someone who always had someone in Roberts council and works on many levels to gain power, but also shown that Tyrion had it right when he dismissed him. Even more it would have turned the dismissal into a (unknown) move against Tywin rather than Cercei, which foreshadows the eventually clash between Tywin and him
Good points
Yeah, as good as this scene is on its' own merits, the idea that Pycelle would have worked for Tywin for decades and not even told him is pretty absurd.
This^, and also this scene only works if Pycelle is lying about his motivations (most likely, his loyalty to the Lannisters). He seems to be revealing his competence here, but his stated goals are not compatible: 1) only wishing to "remain in the garden" 2) being, essentially, fully loyal to the Lannisters for no immediate gain. Tywin should detect the contradiction
A later scene that shows how these goals might easily conflict, and Pycelle's response, would justify Pycelle's characterization here. But without that, this scene is just melodrama.
Tywin (at least show tywin) is one of my favorite characters. He skins a deer (like charles dance even did in real life for the scene apparently) for supper. He's shown fishing in this scene also for supper. He's the most self-reliant character in the whole show. If I were stranded on a desert island I'd want him to be with me cuz we'd be eating wild boar at day 2 and at day 15 I'd be married off to the local tribe priestess for 6 plots of land but hey I'd be 100 percent down for this.
He's seems to very much embody the word "competent", though his treatment of Tyrion shows no one can be perfect.
Maybe "ruthlessly practical" would be a more accurate term.
Tywin: Kills Fish
Pycelle: Flowers get plucked.
Pycelle is wise in the ways of house sigil metaphors.
Do you mean that Tywin was killing the fish as a metaphor for what befell House Tully?
And Pycelle is proposing to deal damage to the Tyrells somehow to weaken them?
@@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δ Last season, Tywin was gutting a stag. At the start of season 4, he's burning wolf pelts. There's probably no metaphors here.
I like to think it’s a case of the show runners subconsciously putting deep elements from GRR Martin into the show, but not understanding their relationship, as they lack integrity. But that’s just little ole me.
@@Sinewmirethe sarcasm ❤
You're right that this scene doesn't tell us anything about Pycelle that we don't already know. One thing it does show us that we don't see anywhere else though is Tywin being aware of and respecting the decisions Tyrion made as hand. For all we see in the rest of the show, Tywin might have as well have just come in and hit the reset button on everything Tyrion did. This scene however shows us that, as dismissive as Tywin was of him to his face, he was aware of what Tyrion did as hand, and agreed with and respected at least some of it. That is something we never get in the show and a bit of nuance that would have added a lot more depth to their relationship.
It also shows Twin responding to Pycelle's directness and dropping his charade so as to convey a bit more respect to Tywin.
I love Tywin making powerful characters do trivial and insulting tasks like carrying fish or fetching him paper and quills and watching them do it without question because he is more powerful and formidable than anyone else by far more than anything else
A pretty important thing about this scene that gets unnoticed is that Tywin is fishing. It means that he’ll attack house Tully soon, the same way he attacked house Baratheon when he was skinning a stag at his introduction scene. RR Martin is very much influenced by Seakspeare and the Ancient Greek theatrical authors such as Euripides and this scenes shows it.
Sure, except neither of these scenes were from the books/written by GRRM
@@CrizzleSnaps I didn’t know that. Do you think D&D came up with this? I doubt it
@@Dimitris_1987 yeah, unless it were some unsung writer in the room - d&d made a lot of really positive additions in the first few seasons, pretty much anything without a book pov present. Robert/cersei, littlefinger/varys, viserys/jorah - they deserved praise for a while there.
@@CrizzleSnaps looks weird because GRRM steals Shakespeare and the Greeks like a maniac. Anyway, good conversation
Show only my guy
I *WISH* they'd gone for Charles Dance as Emperor Shaddam Corrino IV 😭🔥
Brooo I was thinking this after the first dune came out lol
Doesn’t matter, it was just another shitty attempt to bring Dune to the screen.
They deleted the scenes because spoiled the red wedding :
Season 1 Tywin is peeling a deer (Robert Baratheon)
Season 3 is burning the wolves fur and rebuilding "Ice" (the Starks)
Now this, fishing some . . . Tullys
"Peeling" a deer... Smh
How many normal viewers (that is, non-book viewers) actually got the symbolism of most of the families outside of Stark and Lannister? Nobody I know who watched the show would have made that connection. I would, but I read the books.
Or am I just being a book snob and underestimating the viewers?
I watched the show before reading the books and I understood the symbolism of skinning the deer
Tywin eating fish out of Blackwater Bay is character assassination.
Oh this scene. I imagine this scene was removed because it fit too much within Varys’ and LF archetypes as this is both their exact strategies so it’d be a bit weird to have 3 people with the exact same strategy to be in the small council.
It would make sense no, you probably need to be to have a say in the most powerful table in the world?
I remember they said they deleted the scene as Tywin fishing seemed to common for someone in his position.
@@devanman7920he was skinning a stay at the start
@@BowiePhillips-j2w that's exactly what I said to myself when I heard them say it. I
@@BowiePhillips-j2wprobably a mistake too tbh. Book Tywin would never
Great video.
Something else i like about this scene that goes along with a scene from season 1. Tywin has hobbies. Season 1 we see him butchering a buck. Here we see him fishing. Its symbolism in that the animals are represent different families.
But this also serves to characterize Tywin. He does things in his free time. He doesn't mind getting his hands dirty.
The timing of this is pretty wild. I literally just watched a clip of this scene for the first time like an hour ago 😂
Sometimes the universe works in mysterious ways.
SAME
Bad poosi is my favorite dialogue in the entire franchise.
For better or worse it is undeniably iconic
It won an Emmy for Outstanding Writing.
Only matched by "finger in the bum"
4:18 this is an amazing visual shot. In the scene Tywin is the smallest person dwarfed by the immense structure that has stood for probably centuries. Even at his most vulnerable and smallest looking in stature, he's still seems to cast a wide shadow.
Thank you for explaining the value charge, you made so much sense and I just stumbled on this video because I binge watching GoT videos. Youve inspired me to revisit a story I was trying to write but I wasnt happy with how I was writing it and you've made me feel so much better about it. Thank you again
If there is one core strength of GOT it is their excellent use of visual metaphors. Even later seasons do it well. As bad as the dothraki charge was tactically, visually it was a spectacular moment as the inspiring flaming swords ignited 10 seconds ago were snuffed out one by one by the dark.
This is an excellent explanation that highlights some of the best missing scenes from the book-to-screen adaptation. Thank you for your delivery!
Excellent video. I learned a lot! This will be useful as I work to convert novels to screenplays. Thank you!
Hi, SavageBooks just wanted take a moment and say that I am a massive fan of the channel and your content keep up the great work!
Removing any scene with Tywin is criminal.
Very cool to see coverage of this scene, really love it and wish it was included in the show! Whenever I show someone Game of Thrones, I also show them this scene, because it really feels like it should have been included.
Firstly, let’s all take the time to understand how godlike gorgeous this man is. Then appreciate how well he can articulate the beauty of an amazingly written scene.
Pycelle is really hot you are so right
@@savagebooks7482 If in the right light he strikingly resembles the delicious narrator than I would be more than pleasures to agree 😉
Damn
Someone thirsty 😅
Agree, savagebooks is gorgeous
Honestly the Ros scene should’ve been the one to hit the cutting room floor. The deleted dynamic between two well-crafted book characters shouldn’t fall victim to David and Dan’s Original Character Do Not Steal. A damned shame.
Thanks, you are very knowledgeable and you are a good teacher too.
1:20 I just read that scene between Tywin and Tyrion in Storm of Swords. It’s almost a 1:1 from the chapter
Your voice is like sweet nectar on the wind. You remind me of a young Christopher Judge. I watched a lot of stargate growing up so your voice is very calming. This is my first time seeing your channel. Thanks for the content my brother keep up the good work.
Nice. Your delivery is comfortable, approachable. Thank you for your thoughts.
Tywin killing fish is brilliant subtext I didn't notice until you pointed it out
Excellent breakdown, both of how a hard decision to cut a strong scene is made, and also of scene structure in general. In learning writing, trying to think of an individual scene in a three act structure and with protag/antagonists with a clear goal and obstacle is one of the hardest parts.
Wow!!!... that was great and very informative.
First good GoT vid in years. Thank you for that!
Agreed. I would rather cheer the many things this epic series got right instead of listening to all the haters complain about “bad writing”.
Id argue the scene DOES add to the audience's viewpoint and the story itself in a pretty major way. Its not so much that Pycell is an agent of Cersei and by extension Tywin, or even that Tywin knows as it IS pretty stupid how no one sees through the rouse.
No, the real information that changes the story is that Tywin calls it out right to Pycell's face. Now Pycell knows that HE knows, and now that all the cards are on the table hes able to be put fully on offense, which you see in the small council interactions after the Battle of the Blackwater in the show.
Every scene with tywin was gold , he played that role so beautifully its hard to remember he is an actor.
One could argue that the scene explains why Pycelle is added to the council again, therefore needed to be added to the final cut.
When you consider what scenes the later seasons DIDN’T cut, it makes the exclusion of the scene all the more perplexing.
the season one scene didn't do enough to establish pycel's falsehood, the season 2 scene was needed for furtherment of his character development and removing it was a mistake
The season 1 scene aught to have been removed, both to let attentive viewers catch onto his facade organically, and to allow a superior scene to inform the less perceptive after a few remarkable uses of said facade.
Imagine Pycelle acting the fool as an aspirant at court gets arrested or banished, and he just glances over with an ill-contained self-satisfied expression.
Too true ...
This is the first video I’ve watched of yours with you in it not just your disembodied voice and somehow this is both exactly what i was expecting and not at all what i was expecting
This video is absolutely brilliant my man good information for a writer
i think it would have felt strange for them to only be having that conversation at that point in time. like, why not ever in the many years prior that they knew and (at times) worked together?
i also actually rather liked the subtlety of the s1 scene. however if they were to put in a scene like the above it would be more believable to me if tywin was already in the know (either they are around others and pycell drops the pretense when the others leave, or just changing the line of interruption from tywin to something more in the tune of “why the hell are u acting like that when it’s just us here”)
youtube keeps recommending me handsome men who write scripts for some reason, i didn’t know this was a genre
There's a scene that got left in that shows Pycel warm up his Persona
i am not a book reader. i really want to be but they intimidate me lol
but seeing the scene and seeing Pycelle go from this fragile thing to a man who speaks like that absolutely BAFFLED me. and i REALLLLY wish they kept it in the show.
@@DANiCL4WS the audiobooks are amazing
Read the books. If my elderly father who preferred non-fiction or American Westerns can get into them, you can. He loved them, as well as the Harry Potter series. Alas, he died 5 years ago, before he found out how things wind up. If my mother had lived longer, I bet she would have liked them, too.
Can't believe Pycel masterfully acted the President of 'Merica
I'd add I think the reason this scene is so powerful is that by the time it takes place in the story, we understand what's going on. We didn't really in the first season, and we were too busy trying to put all the characters in their place then. By the time this takes place in the story, it has meaning, whereas the one with the chick in the first season doesn't.
Kami house background goes hard💯
Awesome scene but sad it was taken out. I remember seeing this years ago when it was brought up. Glad you’re talking about this.
I didn’t know I care about knowing this information. I just came here to see the scene and hear why it was deleted. Awesome video! Well done!
The Ros (pronounced Rozz, not rose) scene is a better choice because it also gives the audience a glimpse into her new day-to-day now that she's come to the capital. She left Winterfell headed to King's Landing but we get to see that she didn't end up solely in Baelish's brothel or worse, in Flea Bottom. Additionally, we already had a scene with Tywin showing his "hunter" prowess with him dressing a dear carcass. The audience didn't need to see that he can also unalive a fish. That just feels repetitive. To your point, all the information in the deleted scene is already info we knew but the nugget about Ros's new place in King's Landing is "value positive" information. I dont think they chose the scene they did for "sexposition" as you put it. Coming to that conclusion ignores the other character in the scene entirely.
I still say it's a shame this seen was deleted. While it may (arguably) not convey new information, it's a damn well done scene that displayed Pycel's character on a new level. Also, it's always great to see more Tywin.
One thing the scene adds is we viewers see Tywin sees through the deception. This teaches us something about his perceptions of plots.
I actually learned about the three acts of a scene in terms of DM'ing. The intro, I learned as "the hook", and learned to avoid exposition during that time, since exposition is reserved for when the players are already interested (hooked).
Great video. Agreed with everything you said. All I’d add is that we never heard Pycelle speak in a non-feeble voice, so there was still ENOUGH rooms for some fans to speculate if maybe he wasn’t faking, especially by season 8. So, I think they might have also thought making SUCH a direct scene about Pycelle removed too much room for interpretation
i think the scene still expands on where his loyalties are and reminding the audience of this dynamic is also important. It's also good story telling to create parallels to previous events. Having that seen just adds to the foreshadowing and it improves the show as a whole.
8:27
Such a subtle yet somehow massive difference in delivery masks Pycell’s true nature. Incredible.
I remember seeing this cut scene and wondering _why_ did they ever cut it? Makes more sense now. I do wish they'd kept this, in favor of either or both of the others. And, oof the phrase "sometimes you have to kill your darlings" cuts deep. My life got turned upside down recently but, before it did, I was working on a scene for a story that, even as I wrote it, and as hyped as I am about it, I'm pretty sure is already destined for the Cut Clips Folder, before I'm even through writing it. Didn't expect that emotional knife twist. :3
This scene would have added so much to his character. We see him kinda put on the old man act in one early episode, and in his death scene, he fights back much better than you'd expect. This scene should have tied it all together.
Not sure I agree. I just don't believe Pycelle is that important of a character, in the grand scheme of things.
Some of us don't like subtle. Thanks for explaning how things work...I definitely learned a lot today about that.
I think that scene should have been left in. It would have reinforced the previous S01 scene, as it could easily have been missed. Plus it was a cool scene!
It's bad for tywin's character arc to have him see through Pycel, it's bad for Pycel to admit everything like this. It's a good scene but bad for the story.
After rewatching seasons 1-5, it's bittersweet with Tyrion's trial before his father and the court. On 1 hand, it's so good him being on trial and the acting and jamie trying to help as best he can.
On the other hand (except for jamie fookin Lannister ha ha ha) after the hearing is done so is Tyrion's character basically. He becomes a shell of what he used to be, almost all of the character's after the trial end up like that.
One of the BIGGEST mistakes the show made was ommitting the "The Lady Stoneheart"storyline entirely.
🤦
You have quite an epic voice :)
Oh, well, I gotta add this; the scene where Tywin is fishing, I actually had a beer on that exact spot last april :D
Cheers
I wish HotD writers knew something about value charges. 80% of season 2 scenes change nothing and are added just to fill screentime.
I always wondered why this scene didn't make it into the final cut of the show. Thanks for the explanation:)
Charles Dance is one of the greatest actors of our time. Simply superb in every single scene throughout his run in GoT.
I disagree with the main thesis of this video.
I think that it was left out because it would add the idea that his father supports Thyron, while in reality (even though he recognizes that he is clever) will never completely accept and stand . (Remember the words to his son when he returned and discharged him from his Hand position.)
And that he likes better to relax fishing than being in command. Which along with creating power, is his total passion.
I also don't think the scene with the prostitute boring, as it reveals how far can reach his commitment with his acting of decrepit man, that even with the less powerful and socially irrelevant people he continues it. And moments later, in his total solitude, just with a few stretches and change of posture he reveals the facade of the character, undubtly changing 180 degrees all the past interpretations of his actions by the viewers.
I honestly want more people to "debunk" your videos so you can respond to them
in what way?
it was deleted likely because it was a plot point that didn’t really go anywhere, and there were many other more important scenes that needed the screen time
also, the dialogue here was okay, but was a little hamfisted and on the nose
I've seen some of your videos before and decided to check your channel out and holy shit youtube really decided to recommend this one to everyone didn't they? Not complaining tho this was a bomb ass video and i really enjoyed your explanations and breakdowns.
I think it's crazy cause I spent this entire time having already seen this scene and thinking it was part of the actual show. I had no knowledge of it being a cut scene
Love your analysis of Game of Thrones scenes! I think some Stannis ones have a lot going for them
I had no idea this scene was out there. Thanks
It could be argued that so many other scenes made the cut that should not have though, and this one was brilliant.
I must have blinked during the Rose scene but I do remember the Tyrion scene though. I agree with your assessment of the Tywin scene that it should have stayed but I don't agree with the Jaime/Briene scene that it had neutral value. It does change the narrative of the Kingslayer.
The early game of thrones were so much fun so many of the dialogues gave a subtle hint to what is going to occur in the future of the show or even hints to some of the theory from the books to be true such as in the first episode "you might if you knew what it ment " in context of jon wanting to join the nights watch and benjin telling what it really means to become member of the nights watch (i always saw it as him telling jon what he is going to miss out on like having a family or such . But after reading the books and on rewatch of the show i thought it was a refrence to jon not begin a bastard stark but a dragon there are hints in the books that benjin new about lyana and rhaegar .
i'm straight but this man's making me feel something
Pycelle is actually a badass in this scene. He stands tall and and has an honest and assertive conversation with the much feared Tywin Lannister himself.
I've said for years that this clip wouldve been a top 10 clip. Insane that they didnt include it.
Love your voice, hope you're a voice actor or digitise it ❤
I'm sure they said somewhere they cut the scene as Tywin fishing seemed too common for someone in his position.
Agh Damn it, that makes sense. I wish it weren't true cause this is more interesting than the other scenes before it.
oh wait, you literally say that in the video
But isn’t there some value charge in the scene, considering we learn that Tywin knows about Pycelles supposed frailty, while we also learn why Pycelles acts like this
I got the same DBZ Kame House wallpaper! Fire video
As always great video, i cry for the show that could have been...
The weirdest part of this scene for me is that I've been to that location in real life when I visited Dubrovnik in 2015, and that location is a kayak rental shop.
Like those stairs onto the beach literally had piles of kayaks stacked up, and you just jetty off into where Tywin is fishing and go off for a journey 😂
I can never unsee it 😅
I have never seen pycell this straight and clear!!
For a modern TV show made for streaming, where varying episode lengths are acceptable, even 'useless' scenes that are enjoyable to watch but don’t significantly advance the plot can still be beneficial, as long as the added cost of including them isn’t too high. Game of Thrones was at its best during relaxed scenes where a small group of characters interacted in ways that were consistent with their personalities.