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Why do you believe it’s necessary to change history to your narrative? There’s no proof and your theory of the Soviet Union but there is proof in the direction that the atomic weapons had a huge effect on the emperor and the civilian leaders.
I don't think there was a D Day that was commenced in February.....if I'm wrong let me know please and thanx for taking the time to make these videos... especially cuz there'd not too many things I love as much as aviation
@@More_Row Still, receiving only 17K views after 24 hours for such an incredible production is abysmal. This is due to UA-cam's algorithms not promoting their content.
I was very fortunate to have as a friend a marine who went ashore at Iwo, a great man and a credit to the marines, He mentioned the men that raised the flag were all killed within 4 days of doing that. Cheshire UK
The book "The Flags of our Fathers" tells the story about that. Just be advised, the cynicism and amorality of the war, and the story behind the photo is on full display. It was pure propaganda. There was a reason some of those dudes didn't want to be identified.
I don't think they were all killed. I know there was an American-Indian Marine who survived (who came to his own bad end in civilian life, but that's another story.)
When it comes to whether a battle was necessary, the view I've developed over the years is that the people who fought at these battles couldn't have known if it was necessary or not. So in a way it doesn't really matter, because hindsight is 20-20. I feel it's more important to understand the battle from the perspective of those who fought it at the time.
It doesn't matter. No war is actually necessary something could always be done to avoid it so in essence we accept that it doesn't matter. What matters is who you are how you perform and your buddies. I fought so my friends would go home alive. I served hoping someone else would not have to.
Some islands could have simply been bypassed, but you're right, we didn't know that at the time. The fact is that every island we took was a net loss for the enemy, regardless of our casualties. The whole point of war is to hurt the enemy more than he hurts you, and we sure did that. Iwo Jima is an example. Yes, we sustained as many casualties as the enemy, but a lot of our guys were RTD in time or the next battle. Enemy casualties were almost all KIA, eliminating them from the equation altogether. Also, bombers could link up with fighter escorts who took off from Iwo Jima. Interestingly, the fighter escorts were so effective that Lemay had all of the machine guns on the B29s removed so more bombs could be loaded. Think about it, our fighters launched from Iwo Jima were so effective that our bombers no longer needed machine guns for protection. Also, any of the fighter escorts could strafe ground targets if they had ammo. For every casualty we took on Iwo Jima, we dished out many others. Taking the island may have hurt us, but it hurt the enemy far worse.
27:15 Imperial Japan in a nutshell. Nonstop insane and self-destructive decisions. It cost the equivalent of $3.3 billion to build that ship, and their best idea was to beach it on an island where it would have lasted a grand total of 5 minutes before being destroyed.
You have to put their decision to make Yamato into context though. At the time making a battleship that could wreck any other battleship made sense to them as they didn't have the production capability to churn out tons of ships. As well, the idea of aircraft being the true dominating force in naval combat hadn't exactly been the school of thought that was in the minds of the people in charge so it was believed battleships still had a role to play. On top of that the japanese military was internally bickering which probably didn't help matters.
Both the Yamato and Musashi had an insoluble issue with the sighting of their AA armament, which was probably the real reason they were kept away from battles. In the battle which sunk it, the Yamato failed to shoot down a single one (!!) of the literally hundreds of enemy aircraft attacking her. Other big Japanese battleships had the same problem. They just couldn't get the sighting on their AA machine guns right for some reason.
My grandfather was in the 4th Marine division on the right into the rock quarry. He said they called that area The meat grinder. He was lucky and survived with shrapnel in his leg and was sent home with a purple heart.😮
Germany is a perfect example of what can happen when a people does not consider itself defeated. Peace can’t be restored by simply throwing some concessions, and until the enemy has accepted defeat it’s just a facade to wait for a rematch. If you’re fighting for complete victory and no negotiations, well you have to put yourself in the right position to dictate terms.
Both Japan and Germany were ground to ashes after the war and were back on their feet in 20 years. Africa and India 70 years after colonialism ended still blame the outside world for their current state of affairs .
@@Crashed131963 war lasted 5-6 years. It damaged the economy and took a heavy toll on civilian lives. But the nation will have roughly the same % of literacy, education, infrustructure chain, innovators, etc. Also, your wealth is not siphoned by other countries. War took a heavy toll from all parties involved. Colonisation, on the other hand, lasted 200+ years. It created civil wars, castism,/racism among the people, huge drop in literacy and infrustucture, etc. Alomost all your wealth and produce are siphoned to other countries. With that, Europe Industrialised with the blood of Africa and Indian subcontinent. When its time for them (3rd world) to finally undergo industrialization in the 21st century... BAMM... CLIMATE CHANGE. Pollution control. Carbon emission. Sustainable development... Which they themselves all ignored in the 19th-20th centuring.
7 July 1944. About 5000 lightly armed Japanese soldiers and civilians (men, women, _and_ children) armed with bamboo spears, knives, and shovels overran the US Army and Marine Corps on Saipan. A unit they overran was an artillery battery that was firing 105mm shells fused to explode at four-tenths of a second - this is point blank artillery fire and the Japanese still kept coming. They overran 50-calibre machine guns - the kind that rip people apart. They were so successful that when the reached the ocean they didn't know what to do next. In response the US military had to organise firing lines of the kind used in the Civil War (shoulder to shoulder). After the Japanese were wiped out the US went in to recover their wounded and dead. One of killed was an Army dentist (Ben Salomon) whose body was found surrounded by 98 dead Japanese; Salomon had been shot 76 times - 24 whilst still alive - and stabbed many more times. The battle had been utter mayhem. The same would have happened on Kyushu if Operation Olympic had been executed.
Here are a few facts: the Japanese imperial forces killed 35,000 civilians and slave labor, killed 330,000 prisoners of war, kidnap 200,000 Asian women and forced them in to prostitution in the imperial bravos and murdered between 13,million and 19 million civilians in China, Vietnam, Korea and the Philippines. Between 1938 and 1945 Japanese imperial forces murdered between 100,000 and 250,000 civilians a month. That stopped when the bombs dropped.
Through field tests of USA in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we were able to confirm that the atomic bomb was powerful enough to cause mass murder and to investigate the effects of radioactivity. Therefore, I pray that we will not use atomic bombs or nuclear weapons in the future, because we currently have enough nuclear bombs to destroy the earth.
Outstanding! The way in which you simplify (dumb down) and illustrate very difficult battles and explain complex strategies so all can understand it, is awesome! Well done folks!
The idea that the Red Army could've invaded a country they didn't have a rail connection with is pretty silly in general. Unlike the game Risk, there's no red dotted line that you can magically transport armies over bodies of water.
They invaded Manchuria only after the USA bombed Hiroshima. Stalin thought his position in Europe was secure and that the USA overhyped their new weapon. He was motivated into action to keep his part of the Potsdam deal.
The discussion regarding deaths in the case of invasion of Japan ignores the ongoing deaths in territories occupied by Japan. In addition the deaths due to atomic weapons were not significantly greater than events such as the firebombing of Tokyo.
I agree more with the orthodox view on why the bombs were dropped on Japan. Revisionists do have compelling arguments and I don’t believe they are completely incorrect, but I believe that the primary goals of the bombs were the goals that the orthodox believe, while the revisionists goals seem more secondary, or even the goals that were obtained as a side effect of the main goals
``Russian President Vladimir Putin said on the 27th at the ``Wodai Conference,'' an international discussion forum held in Moscow, that the dropping of atomic bombs by the United States on Hiroshima and Nagasaki during World War II was ``militarily unnecessary.'' Stated. "The United States is the only country that uses nuclear weapons against non-nuclear states." Mentions the dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan. He said there was no threat to U.S. territorial integrity or national sovereignty, noting that Japan "effectively conducted a nuclear attack against civilians" even though Japan lacked the ability to counterattack at the time. did. ” Of course, this is a politically motivated statement. facts are facts. Whether that fact is collect or not collect changes depending on the times. War is legal murder, and both Japan and the Allies killed people in war. The winner only says that I was right to kill someone.
@user-pn5pq8yw2wwhy not?? Japan didnt surrender after the first.. so why would the second bomb be unnecessary? Without those bombs the invasion of Japan would have killed millions of people
Japan didn’t need to attack Pearl Harbor because we stopped selling them gasoline. The second bomb was for being cowards and attacking Pearl Harbor. Those bombs saved a million lives. We caused more casualties fire bombing Tokyo. I don’t know how people would even question what we did. The pacific was a nightmare. My grandfather did three beach landings. I know he was glad he didn’t have to invade mainland.
I visited Shuri Castle back in October. While the castle burned down a couple of years ago, the view from the hill was absolutely beautiful. I’m very grateful to have visited as a tourist and not a marine in 1945.
I have seen one video that puts a greater emphasis on the blockade and the resulting food shortages in and on the Japanese home Islands. Based on that idea, I think it's more that there were multiple events that influenced the Japanese surrender. All the arguments that focus on one cause or another ignore the multiple issues Japan was facing.
My grandfather was in an Army mobile medical unit on Okinawa. He had previously been on Leyte. He was 27 with three kids. I'm grateful he served and made it home. Many Years later I met my best friend. His obachan was Okinawan. She was not living on Okinawa during the war, but what a circle of life. She was a courageous woman, and I'm blessed to have known her.
All those opinions seem to ignore the fog of war and its effects. Truman was no Moriarty computing every effects to the smallest details. And forcing Japan to surrender sooner had the obvious secondary benefit of stopping Soviet advances on Japanese held territories. One goal is not necessarily contrary to the other.
The revisionists fail to recognise that the USSR had few naval forces at Vladivostok and Kamchatka. They had no experience in amphibious landings and warfare. The Soviets had to obtain warships and landing craft from the USA, and the 20 LCI(L) they received could carry 200 men each. (Japan and the USSR only shared a land border in Manchuria and Sakhalin Island.) When the Soviets invaded the Kuril Islands, the Japanese, who thought the war was over three days earlier and weren't manning their defence fortifications in any significant way, rose in response. In the Battle of Shumshu the first wave that landed uncontested failed to establish a beachhead. Inexperience. The Soviets lost communications. The second wave of landings were shot up badly by Japanese artillery. The Soviets lost their artillery, mortars, and most of their radios. Eventually comms were re-established and the Soviets called in effective artillery fire from southernmost Kamchatka and air support. About 1/3rd of the Soviets who partook were casualties (KIA, wounded, missing). Remember, this was a surprise assault on forces who thought the war had ended three days earlier. It was a debacle for the Soviets. Amphibious warfare is the most difficult offensive operation to pull off.
The revisionists fail to recognize that Japan had few naval forces to counter an invasion in 1945 -- because the US Navy had sunk them! So whatever capabilities that the USSR had to invade Japan was a gift from the US Navy.
@@ScottKozelWe found and destroyed thousands of combat ready aircraft at the end of the war. All were recycled and scrapped for post war reparations/rebuilding Japan. They could have easily launched 80 of them and taken out all of the Soviets entire fleet. At that point, comrade Stalin would have gave the order to start swimming across to the mainland. It’s a pipe dream through and through. The Soviets could only ever dominate a country they could walk across, just like the mongols.
I havent watched this piece yet and I certainly will, but I just wanted to confess my astonishment on how you were able to put together a 60 (!) minute video, undoubtly well researched and produced just 2 weeks after your latest production. I want to congratulate you on your continious excelent work and thank you for bringing history into my daily life for years now!
thanks! the little secret for this one is, that this is an assembly of three previous videos. Though we did go back and fixed a few things and added a scene after the Battle of Okinawa. If you haven't seen these older ones yet by chance, enjoy them all in one video.
@@realtimehistoryYou guys should make atleast one video on the Austro Sardinian War & the subsequent Italian wars of independence. There's so little available about it on UA-cam
And revisionists still say the atomic bombs should not have been used despite the fact that Japan had been losing the war since mid 1942. It's also rather sad that people think a Soviet war against Japan would've resulted in less civilian deaths than 2 atomic bombs
Excellent video. Well researched and presented. Not exactly "island hopping" but in Europe, when D-Day happened, the allied forces ignored Guernsey and Jersey. They weren't worth taking and despite D-Day being 6th June 1944, the channel islands were not liberated until Germany surrendered on 8th May 1945.
This was my thought. If you can control the island with the navy, would it make more sense to seige the island with the occasional air strike. Unless the island was needed as an airstrip.
Outstanding show with the visuals to give the horrors of the war. 80 years later we can argue why they surrendered and if the bombs should have been dropped. The big factor to remember is that Japan was an honor society. They planned to have anyone capable of fighting to shed their blood. They fought to the last man on the islands. This was the homeland. No surrender! The bombs as you said, were a way to save face/honor and still end the war.
Oliver Stone's "The Bomb" makes a case for the Revisionist position. After some consideration I don't buy it. Certainly the Soviet invasion was a factor but the bombs were a factor as well. It's easy to second guess from an ivory tower 80 years later but I have to say that Truman made the right decision. One bit of information I think needs to be remembered and shows the casualty concerns in 1945. Approximately 500,000 Purple Hearts were manufactured in preparation for the invasion of Japan. They were expected to last until 1947. There are still 120,000 of those medals available. Young soldiers wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan were awarded medals originally made for their grandfathers.
The Japanese defense strategy was called The Glorious Death of 100 Million at a time when there were fewer than 77 million Japanese on the home islands. If the IJA had gotten the ground invasion they wanted, millions of Japanese would have died along with much of their culture.
Probably the best examination of the events leading up to the Surrender of Japan I have ever read is Downfall: The End of the Imperial Japanese Empire by Richard B. Frank. He did his best to view events from the perspectives of the combatants including their misperceptions of each other's actions and intents. He examines the deaths from forced labor camps, POW mistreatment, battle, engineered famines and plagues in the occupied territories, and the destruction of the food distribution infrastructure in Japan. The author carefully traces both the Japanese resistance to surrender and the origins of the American doctrine of unconditional surrender. He definitely takes the side of the orthodox version of history, but his research was so thorough and comprehensive, that it is difficult to come to any other conclusion than the bombs were the lesser of two evils.
Excellent video as usually RTH. One thing I noted was an erroneous arrow at 34:51 pointing at Shikoku. According to the books I read, while Shikoku was initially considered as a target for invasion (either in place of or in support of the attack on Kyushu) it was eventually discarded due to inadequate port facilities available to capture. It may be a bit outside your wheelhouse, but I think it would be really cool if you guys did a video on Operation Downfall as it was shaping up and its likely outcome. I have read two different books on it and found the plan incredibly interesting. I just can't believe anyone saying only 20k casualties would be taken by the Americans. Post-war demobilization and disarmament revealed that US intelligence had badly underestimated the scale of the defensive preparations, both in terms of defensive works and in the amount of men and material successfully transferred to Kyushu from Manchuria and Honshu. Of particular note was the false assumption that the IJAAS had been neutralized, when there were the 20,000 kamikaze aircraft secretly assembled to throw at the invasion fleet. It's also hard to know how the use of tactical nuclear weapons would've impacted the outcome of the battle, as more were being prepared.
we had just used the official westpoint map as a source for the animation, didn't know the plan evolved so much. Definitely would be an interesting topic to cover and we talked about these 1946 operations a lot. But the question always is: How do you vizualise something that didn't happen for a youtube documentary?
@@realtimehistorywhile it might end up being quite long and drawn out, you could potentially represent what a battle for Japan would look like by considering the past tactics developed by both nations, and potentially new ones they might engineer to overcome new obstacles they would encounter while fighting each other. Perhaps we would see the introduction of massive earthquake bombs developed to reduce the multitude of Japanese mountains and hills to rubble to prevent the Japanese from playing the cave game that they refined so well throughout the campaign. Just a thought!
After watching this video, I definitely get the sense that the "Porque no los dos" principle applies. The different schools of thought definitely make a convincing argument that neither Soviet invasion nor the nuclear bombings could have knocked Japan out of the war in August 1945. It took the combination of both events to convince the military leadership that surrender was necessary and to give them a face-saving excuse for doing so.
I must say, this was a truly excellent production. The last 15 minute discussion about the end of pacific war and the use of atomic weapons was a 1st class summary. 👍
as a revisionist's revisionist, I think the last 15 minutes was long winded guesswork (at best) The revisionists have had 80 years to armchair admiral about what Truman had 48 hrs to decide. Get over it.
My father worked in the Manhatten Project. To his dying day he never mentioned what his project he was working on for DuPont at Hanford Washington during the war.
I really like this presentation of the contemporary debate about the end of the war against Japan - very few documentaries canvass alternative views - well done
Hearing your correct pronunciation of "Okinawa" was refreshing. (In case you're all wondering, it has been misspronounced forever, so no, it isn't "Oki-nar-wah") Edit: Damnit, and then you lapsed and reverted back to the American pronunciation.
Wow this is so educational and fascinating. Thanks for sharing it. Btw I’m so grateful you pronounce and enunciate Japanese names and places properly!! 🤙🏽 Aloha nō
I think you did an amazing job of highlighting both sides of the argument regarding the use of the atomic bombs. Having read extensively on this matter I think the one one thing that is not discussed is the mind of Hirohito. In truth he was really more a figurehead than the actual ruler of Japan. In fact from the 1920s on Japan was ruled almost entirely by the military with civilian rule being nearly completely subjugated to the will of the Army leadership with the Navy playing a secondary role. All my readings on this matter show that the atomic bombs had a unique effect on Hirohito and drove him to force the military's hand
From what I have read and seen in the histories, Hirohito's role is complex and nuanced. It is known that he was aware of many of the horrors the Imperial Forces committed and either acquiesced or approved of them. I am not sure how much he could have done to prevent or mitigate them but it seems that he did not even try. Given that some of the August 14-15 mutineers were willing to take the emperor hostage or kill him to prevent the surrender rescript from being broadcast, it is clear that Hirohito was in a delicate position and he probably knew it. I believe that Hirohito supported Japan's expansionist wars and had little regard for the death and suffering they caused. Again, I believe that, in the end, the surrender rescript was issued because the Soviet Union's entry into the war dashed any hope of a negotiated end of the war and the nuclear weapons showed that the Allied Powers could destroy Japan without expending large numbers of allied lives.
Do not forget the British Pacific Fleet of 6 fleet carriers, 15 other small carriers, 5 battleships, 11 cruisers, over 50 destroyers and frigates, 31 submarines, and over 50 supply and tanker ships. Over 1 million Commonwealth trooops served in South East Asia.
In 1941, Britain was an imperial power with colonies across south and south-east Asia. In December 1941, Japan attacked British territories in Hong Kong, Malaya (now Malaysia), Singapore and Burma (now also known as Myanmar). Kind of like they were helping themselves by helping the allies.
Hey Jesse. Love this video. I keep forgetting you narrate this channel so I almost skipped this one because I’ve consumed so much Pacific War content at this point. Given you know so much about China during this time, would you consider making a video about what was exclusively on the Second Sino-Japanese War? It always fades once the United States enters the war.
This is a great channel! Great narration and presentation. All within an half an hour programme. A Happy and.....Peaceful New Year Everyone....Probably not too Peaceful. 🥳🍻👍 Best Regards from England.
It seems to me that it is easy to judge the actions of Truman from the safety of a world mostly at peace. As for the USSR invasion--Japan knew that although they likely were unable to defeat the USSR on the ground in China/Mongolia, but they were also well aware that the USSR could not invade Japan.
It was an informative and wonderful historical coverage episode...it was a great work....thank you respectful ( real time history) channel for sharing this magnificent epic
Well done. Richard Frank is correct " . . . it is fantasy, not history . . . ". History is a milieu of factors influencing outcomes. Information that is common knowledge now was not available or widely known at the time. How in the world were the Soviets going to invade Japan without the resources and logistics to support amphibious operations? The Japanese knew this. Truman's prime objective was to prevent US deaths, period. All other objectives were lower in the hierarchy. As it later played out in Eastern Europe, distrust of Soviet aspirations in Asia was warranted and deserved its high, but still secondary priority.
@@realtimehistory It was no secret the Soviets did not have a navy worth mentioning. Ships going to or from the east coast would have to pass through areas easily monitored by Japan.
@@realtimehistory --- Yes, the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters was acutely aware of the Soviet incapacity to invade Japan's Home Islands. The Imperial Japanese Navy maintained a cruiser on patrol in the area despite the inability to refuel most of its other warships on such a constant basis. The Soviets had zero capability to successfully invade Hokkaido or the other Japanese Home Islands, the Japanese knew it, and the Soviets knew it despite Stalin's last minute proposals to occupy Hokkaido after the Japanese ceasefire and surrender to the United States and other Allies. The Soviet Pacific Fleet's flagship in a proposed hostile occupation was nothing more than a destroyer leader which lacked a serious anti-aircraft armament. The Imperial Japanese Navy's remaining strength in Japan's Home Islands after being reduced to a small fraction of its former strength was still far more numerous and powerful than the small number of destroyers and small craft in the Soviet Pacific Fleet. The thousands of Japanese combat aircraft alone would have sunk any units of the Soviet Pacific Fleet which attempted to breach the American sea mine blockade surrounding Hokkaido and other Japanese Home Islands. See: Giangreco, D.M. (2016). "The Hokkaido Myth" (PDF). Journal of Strategy and Politics (2): 148-164.
Why did Japan surrender? The nuclear bombs? Yes. The combined submarine and aerial mining blockade? Yes. The conventional bombing? Yes. The Soviets joining in? Yes. A lot argue an either / or viewpoint. One of the other channels I watch likes to caution against mono-causality when it comes to history. I think Jessie and the team at RTH hit it right when they pointed out there isn't one person or one small committee making decisions in isolation, there's networks and multiple influences. Great vid - glad I could finally watch it 3 days after release.
Iwo Jima was the biggest milestone to Japan getting the 2 nukes! The US did the math, extrapolated the casualties and chose the "nuclear" shortcut! Simple as that!
The Soviet declaration of war could not have been that much of a shock, as the Soviets notified Japan in early April that they would not be renewing the Soviet-Japanese non-aggression pact when it would expire three months later.
17:39 the value of Iwo Jima is that Marines are cheap and B29s are very very expensive. They paid a high price but if you get 2,400 emergency touch down landings... it's a price you have to pay with a hard heart. Pelilieu, that was bs
It has since been 110 years since WW1 . We have History documentaries but some leaders from certain countries have not learn anything about the horrors that wars bring .
For those with a revisionist perspective, put yourself into Truman's shoes. How do you NOT use the bomb? Regarding Iwo's usefulness to the bomber campaign- it does not bear out in the USAAF's historical record. The 7th fighter command did not make use of Iwo as a fighter base- it was too far from the Japanese mainland. Additionally, the claim that 29000 USAAF bomber crew were saved was pure speculation. The actual number saved comes to a couple of thousand. Tops. So Iwo, despite the postwar obfuscation, was not ultimately worth the cost. The blockade argument fails to take into account the 40,000 Asian civilians dying every month under Japanese occupation.
I do not know much about the great game world leaders play. But i do know that both of my grandfather's were both deployed to participate in Downfall. They have survived up to this point being involved in many actions in the pacific theater and Atlantic theater. The odds are one of their numbers if not both were up. Then what would the future be for their many descendants? We would all be the never born...
Great video, it's impossible to cover all the different factors in one video. It's likely we will never know all the facts, it's not likely the dialogue over these events will ever reach a consensus.
The revisionist views usually have two common characteristics; 1) An anti-western undercurrent 2) Wholly ignoring the surrender message by the Emperor who specifically mentions the bomb but NOT the invasion of Manchuria
It was left out consciously. The threat of a new super weapon was used as an excuse to capitulate without losing face. In reality Hirohito would then be almost assassinated by the army radicals despite the excuse. In reality Tojo was never willing to surrender and wanted the japanese civilization rather be wiped out than surrender to the enemy. The truth is that the atomic bombs did far less damage than the rapidly ramping up fire bombing and it would have eventually razed every city of the IJ, but it was used as a successful propaganda device on both sides to get out of the war without, ironically, complete destruction of Japan.
This was an excellent presentation of the Japanese surrender with both Orthodox and Revisionist points of view. I met Admiral Yamamoto's grandson in the late 1980s at the Norwood Country Club in Massachusetts and found him to be very polite, charming, exceptionally kind, and gracious. He was very reluctant to get into any discussions about his grandfather or the Japanese government's surrender, in 1945 however, he hinted somewhat that the Japanese regime finally decided to capitulate once the United States guaranteed the survival of his reign and Japan's transformation to the Constitutional Monarchy. This is only one man's thoughts and opinions, however, it must be said that there were a multitude of reasons for Japan's final capitulation and surrender, and in the end, it is up to individuals to make up their own judgments based on the uncovered available information.
Anytime Jesse pronounces something in a funny way, I figure I've been doing it wrong. Funny thing, I'm so used to the way Americans pronounce Okinawa that Jesse's pronunciation sounds inflected to me, but when I say it his way myself, I realize it's not, that it's flat, the way Japanese words typically are spoken.
@@fredrickmarsiello4395 He uses the vernacular from the time. From the people who lived there. I suspect you also leave similarly asinine comments on videos by Dr Mark Felton, etc, correctly pronouncing German cities in the local pronunciation.
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Suggested title: "Japan's Defeat 1945: From Iwo Jima to Hiroshima." The Japanese empire didn't fall down, it was utterly defeated.
👍👍👍👍
Why do you believe it’s necessary to change history to your narrative? There’s no proof and your theory of the Soviet Union but there is proof in the direction that the atomic weapons had a huge effect on the emperor and the civilian leaders.
I don't think there was a D Day that was commenced in February.....if I'm wrong let me know please and thanx for taking the time to make these videos... especially cuz there'd not too many things I love as much as aviation
The way UA-cam's algorithms treat you guys is a crime. You are undoubtedly one of the highest-quality channels on the platform.
Dude for real. It is INSANE that these guys aren’t sitting at 10x subs. They should look into hiring a marketing/PR team for this..
They have Nebula don't worry.
@@More_Row Still, receiving only 17K views after 24 hours for such an incredible production is abysmal. This is due to UA-cam's algorithms not promoting their content.
Indeed
Wrong wrong wrong.
You're totally wrong
Wrongy Mr.wrongerson
Undoubtedly one of the best, highest quality history channels on UA-cam
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I was very fortunate to have as a friend a marine who went ashore at Iwo, a great man and a credit to the marines, He mentioned the men that raised the flag were all killed within 4 days of doing that.
Cheshire UK
The book "The Flags of our Fathers" tells the story about that. Just be advised, the cynicism and amorality of the war, and the story behind the photo is on full display. It was pure propaganda. There was a reason some of those dudes didn't want to be identified.
nope
I don't think they were all killed. I know there was an American-Indian Marine who survived (who came to his own bad end in civilian life, but that's another story.)
Three of those Marines were killed within days of the flag-raising. The other three survived the Battle of Iwo Jima
When it comes to whether a battle was necessary, the view I've developed over the years is that the people who fought at these battles couldn't have known if it was necessary or not. So in a way it doesn't really matter, because hindsight is 20-20. I feel it's more important to understand the battle from the perspective of those who fought it at the time.
It doesn't matter. No war is actually necessary something could always be done to avoid it so in essence we accept that it doesn't matter. What matters is who you are how you perform and your buddies. I fought so my friends would go home alive. I served hoping someone else would not have to.
@@Yakomoeunit 731.
Well said!
Some islands could have simply been bypassed, but you're right, we didn't know that at the time. The fact is that every island we took was a net loss for the enemy, regardless of our casualties. The whole point of war is to hurt the enemy more than he hurts you, and we sure did that. Iwo Jima is an example. Yes, we sustained as many casualties as the enemy, but a lot of our guys were RTD in time or the next battle. Enemy casualties were almost all KIA, eliminating them from the equation altogether. Also, bombers could link up with fighter escorts who took off from Iwo Jima. Interestingly, the fighter escorts were so effective that Lemay had all of the machine guns on the B29s removed so more bombs could be loaded. Think about it, our fighters launched from Iwo Jima were so effective that our bombers no longer needed machine guns for protection. Also, any of the fighter escorts could strafe ground targets if they had ammo. For every casualty we took on Iwo Jima, we dished out many others. Taking the island may have hurt us, but it hurt the enemy far worse.
Agreee! It is a high crime of historians to look at events with modern perspectives and knowledge.
27:15 Imperial Japan in a nutshell. Nonstop insane and self-destructive decisions. It cost the equivalent of $3.3 billion to build that ship, and their best idea was to beach it on an island where it would have lasted a grand total of 5 minutes before being destroyed.
You have to put their decision to make Yamato into context though. At the time making a battleship that could wreck any other battleship made sense to them as they didn't have the production capability to churn out tons of ships. As well, the idea of aircraft being the true dominating force in naval combat hadn't exactly been the school of thought that was in the minds of the people in charge so it was believed battleships still had a role to play. On top of that the japanese military was internally bickering which probably didn't help matters.
@@everythingsalright1121
they did not have the fuel to run yamato
Both the Yamato and Musashi had an insoluble issue with the sighting of their AA armament, which was probably the real reason they were kept away from battles. In the battle which sunk it, the Yamato failed to shoot down a single one (!!) of the literally hundreds of enemy aircraft attacking her.
Other big Japanese battleships had the same problem. They just couldn't get the sighting on their AA machine guns right for some reason.
kantai kessen doctrine
@@4FYTfa8EjYHNXjChe8xs7xmC5pNEtz Yamato did shoot down a few planes. When it’s magazine detonated and the shockwave knocked them out of the sky
It’s an absolute blessing to have you guys post these phenomenal documentaries for free on UA-cam. Thank you RTH
My grandfather was in the 4th Marine division on the right into the rock quarry. He said they called that area The meat grinder. He was lucky and survived with shrapnel in his leg and was sent home with a purple heart.😮
Mine was 5th div. I have his japanese samurai sord that he brought back from the island
Germany is a perfect example of what can happen when a people does not consider itself defeated. Peace can’t be restored by simply throwing some concessions, and until the enemy has accepted defeat it’s just a facade to wait for a rematch. If you’re fighting for complete victory and no negotiations, well you have to put yourself in the right position to dictate terms.
Both Japan and Germany were ground to ashes after the war and were back on their feet in 20 years.
Africa and India 70 years after colonialism ended still blame the outside world for their current state of affairs .
You do realize that both Germany and Japan were rebuilt by the Allies?
@@Crashed131963 war lasted 5-6 years. It damaged the economy and took a heavy toll on civilian lives. But the nation will have roughly the same % of literacy, education, infrustructure chain, innovators, etc. Also, your wealth is not siphoned by other countries. War took a heavy toll from all parties involved.
Colonisation, on the other hand, lasted 200+ years. It created civil wars, castism,/racism among the people, huge drop in literacy and infrustucture, etc. Alomost all your wealth and produce are siphoned to other countries.
With that, Europe Industrialised with the blood of Africa and Indian subcontinent.
When its time for them (3rd world) to finally undergo industrialization in the 21st century... BAMM... CLIMATE CHANGE. Pollution control. Carbon emission. Sustainable development... Which they themselves all ignored in the 19th-20th centuring.
@@chrisr4023 Well said .
Thank you .
@@chrisr4023 Uh.... the war lasted more than 6 years bruh it really started in 37
Oh, final summation of arguments, so well done. Most listeners should put that on repeat a few times. Best I've ever heard, ty.
He's very clear and concise.
He's very clear and concise.
7 July 1944. About 5000 lightly armed Japanese soldiers and civilians (men, women, _and_ children) armed with bamboo spears, knives, and shovels overran the US Army and Marine Corps on Saipan. A unit they overran was an artillery battery that was firing 105mm shells fused to explode at four-tenths of a second - this is point blank artillery fire and the Japanese still kept coming. They overran 50-calibre machine guns - the kind that rip people apart. They were so successful that when the reached the ocean they didn't know what to do next.
In response the US military had to organise firing lines of the kind used in the Civil War (shoulder to shoulder). After the Japanese were wiped out the US went in to recover their wounded and dead. One of killed was an Army dentist (Ben Salomon) whose body was found surrounded by 98 dead Japanese; Salomon had been shot 76 times - 24 whilst still alive - and stabbed many more times. The battle had been utter mayhem.
The same would have happened on Kyushu if Operation Olympic had been executed.
tHese facts or opinion?
Here are a few facts: the Japanese imperial forces killed 35,000 civilians and slave labor, killed 330,000 prisoners of war, kidnap 200,000 Asian women and forced them in to prostitution in the imperial bravos and murdered between 13,million and 19 million civilians in China, Vietnam, Korea and the Philippines.
Between 1938 and 1945 Japanese imperial forces murdered between 100,000 and 250,000 civilians a month. That stopped when the bombs dropped.
@@KalebRandalLoshboughhis last statement was opinion but everything else he said was accurate
That is very courageous
Through field tests of USA in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we were able to confirm that the atomic bomb was powerful enough to cause mass murder and to investigate the effects of radioactivity. Therefore, I pray that we will not use atomic bombs or nuclear weapons in the future, because we currently have enough nuclear bombs to destroy the earth.
Outstanding! The way in which you simplify (dumb down) and illustrate very difficult battles and explain complex strategies so all can understand it, is awesome! Well done folks!
He's got a rare talent with words. I really hope he's a teacher, he would be perfect teaching writing reports at a higher standard.
I think that they simplified without dumbing down. That's the best way to explain complex data.
The idea that the Red Army could've invaded a country they didn't have a rail connection with is pretty silly in general. Unlike the game Risk, there's no red dotted line that you can magically transport armies over bodies of water.
Soviets are not stupid they would find a way to invade mainland Japan
@@JDDC-tq7qm It does not matter if they are stupid or not. They could have never invaded Japan, they had no navy.
@@JDDC-tq7qm Well, they were stupid enough.
They invaded Manchuria only after the USA bombed Hiroshima.
Stalin thought his position in Europe was secure and that the USA overhyped their new weapon.
He was motivated into action to keep his part of the Potsdam deal.
@@JDDC-tq7qm
By doing what? Spending 15 years to build a fleet and attacking in 1960?
The discussion regarding deaths in the case of invasion of Japan ignores the ongoing deaths in territories occupied by Japan. In addition the deaths due to atomic weapons were not significantly greater than events such as the firebombing of Tokyo.
When I heard the quote "one company of 240 marines, is reduced to just 18 men fit for duty" I'm not going to lie, my blood ran cold.
😮😢😢😢😮😢😮😢😅😮😮😅😮
😢😢
I agree more with the orthodox view on why the bombs were dropped on Japan. Revisionists do have compelling arguments and I don’t believe they are completely incorrect, but I believe that the primary goals of the bombs were the goals that the orthodox believe, while the revisionists goals seem more secondary, or even the goals that were obtained as a side effect of the main goals
@user-pn5pq8yw2w そうではないかもしれないが、帝国戦争評議会は、別の爆弾を扱えると信じていたが、アメリカの期限に間に合わなかったことを思い出してほしい。残念なことですが、日本人の熱意はアメリカ人にもよく理解されており、これ以上待ちの試合をするつもりはありませんでした。
陸地の侵略よりはましだった。アメリカ人にとっても日本人にとっても
Word salad?
``Russian President Vladimir Putin said on the 27th at the ``Wodai Conference,'' an international discussion forum held in Moscow, that the dropping of atomic bombs by the United States on Hiroshima and Nagasaki during World War II was ``militarily unnecessary.'' Stated. "The United States is the only country that uses nuclear weapons against non-nuclear states." Mentions the dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan. He said there was no threat to U.S. territorial integrity or national sovereignty, noting that Japan "effectively conducted a nuclear attack against civilians" even though Japan lacked the ability to counterattack at the time. did. ”
Of course, this is a politically motivated statement. facts are facts. Whether that fact is collect or not collect changes depending on the times. War is legal murder, and both Japan and the Allies killed people in war. The winner only says that I was right to kill someone.
@user-pn5pq8yw2wwhy not?? Japan didnt surrender after the first.. so why would the second bomb be unnecessary? Without those bombs the invasion of Japan would have killed millions of people
Japan didn’t need to attack Pearl Harbor because we stopped selling them gasoline. The second bomb was for being cowards and attacking Pearl Harbor. Those bombs saved a million lives. We caused more casualties fire bombing Tokyo. I don’t know how people would even question what we did. The pacific was a nightmare. My grandfather did three beach landings. I know he was glad he didn’t have to invade mainland.
I visited Shuri Castle back in October. While the castle burned down a couple of years ago, the view from the hill was absolutely beautiful. I’m very grateful to have visited as a tourist and not a marine in 1945.
Just leaving this here to say you guys are absolutely fantastic and are my go to channel when it comes to World War history!
much appreciated. you will like what we have in store in 2024
I have seen one video that puts a greater emphasis on the blockade and the resulting food shortages in and on the Japanese home Islands.
Based on that idea, I think it's more that there were multiple events that influenced the Japanese surrender.
All the arguments that focus on one cause or another ignore the multiple issues Japan was facing.
+nilo9456
Well said.
My grandfather was in an Army mobile medical unit on Okinawa. He had previously been on Leyte. He was 27 with three kids. I'm grateful he served and made it home. Many Years later I met my best friend. His obachan was Okinawan. She was not living on Okinawa during the war, but what a circle of life. She was a courageous woman, and I'm blessed to have known her.
I try to watch everything covering the pacific theater. By far your video is the best and maintains quite a bit of detail. Great job!
thanks, we will see that we cover more in the future.
All those opinions seem to ignore the fog of war and its effects. Truman was no Moriarty computing every effects to the smallest details. And forcing Japan to surrender sooner had the obvious secondary benefit of stopping Soviet advances on Japanese held territories. One goal is not necessarily contrary to the other.
Gonna fully watch it tonight thanks!!!
Suggested title: "Japan's Defeat 1945: From Iwo Jima to Hiroshima." The Japanese empire didn't fall down, it was utterly defeated.
Great video as always. Ur the channel on YT I've been watching longer than any other. Love it, keep up your excellent work
The revisionists fail to recognise that the USSR had few naval forces at Vladivostok and Kamchatka. They had no experience in amphibious landings and warfare. The Soviets had to obtain warships and landing craft from the USA, and the 20 LCI(L) they received could carry 200 men each. (Japan and the USSR only shared a land border in Manchuria and Sakhalin Island.) When the Soviets invaded the Kuril Islands, the Japanese, who thought the war was over three days earlier and weren't manning their defence fortifications in any significant way, rose in response. In the Battle of Shumshu the first wave that landed uncontested failed to establish a beachhead. Inexperience. The Soviets lost communications. The second wave of landings were shot up badly by Japanese artillery. The Soviets lost their artillery, mortars, and most of their radios. Eventually comms were re-established and the Soviets called in effective artillery fire from southernmost Kamchatka and air support. About 1/3rd of the Soviets who partook were casualties (KIA, wounded, missing). Remember, this was a surprise assault on forces who thought the war had ended three days earlier.
It was a debacle for the Soviets. Amphibious warfare is the most difficult offensive operation to pull off.
Amphibious operations are as you say highly complicated. It took the Allies three years to become experts at it.
The revisionists fail to recognize that Japan had few naval forces to counter an invasion in 1945 -- because the US Navy had sunk them!
So whatever capabilities that the USSR had to invade Japan was a gift from the US Navy.
@@ScottKozelWe found and destroyed thousands of combat ready aircraft at the end of the war. All were recycled and scrapped for post war reparations/rebuilding Japan. They could have easily launched 80 of them and taken out all of the Soviets entire fleet. At that point, comrade Stalin would have gave the order to start swimming across to the mainland. It’s a pipe dream through and through. The Soviets could only ever dominate a country they could walk across, just like the mongols.
I havent watched this piece yet and I certainly will, but I just wanted to confess my astonishment on how you were able to put together a 60 (!) minute video, undoubtly well researched and produced just 2 weeks after your latest production. I want to congratulate you on your continious excelent work and thank you for bringing history into my daily life for years now!
thanks! the little secret for this one is, that this is an assembly of three previous videos. Though we did go back and fixed a few things and added a scene after the Battle of Okinawa. If you haven't seen these older ones yet by chance, enjoy them all in one video.
@@realtimehistoryYou guys should make atleast one video on the Austro Sardinian War & the subsequent Italian wars of independence. There's so little available about it on UA-cam
And revisionists still say the atomic bombs should not have been used despite the fact that Japan had been losing the war since mid 1942.
It's also rather sad that people think a Soviet war against Japan would've resulted in less civilian deaths than 2 atomic bombs
Если советский союз не помогал то сша досихпор воевали с японией
@@МусаБазарбаев-о5с nah bro
I think the suns were enough
@@МусаБазарбаев-о5сthat’s only because Japan was trying to negotiate peace through the soviets
I guarantee you every marine in 1945 would tell you dropping the bombs was necessary
Excellent video. Well researched and presented.
Not exactly "island hopping" but in Europe, when D-Day happened, the allied forces ignored Guernsey and Jersey. They weren't worth taking and despite D-Day being 6th June 1944, the channel islands were not liberated until Germany surrendered on 8th May 1945.
This was my thought. If you can control the island with the navy, would it make more sense to seige the island with the occasional air strike.
Unless the island was needed as an airstrip.
Outstanding show with the visuals to give the horrors of the war. 80 years later we can argue why they surrendered and if the bombs should have been dropped. The big factor to remember is that Japan was an honor society. They planned to have anyone capable of fighting to shed their blood. They fought to the last man on the islands. This was the homeland. No surrender! The bombs as you said, were a way to save face/honor and still end the war.
Excellent video! The detailed exploration of the final stages of the Pacific War is both informative and engaging. Great storytelling-well done!
My father Edward Sanchez fought on Iwo with the 3rd Marine division.
Great documentary! I really appreciate that you put an effort in finding a real historical quotes and present the topic from both perspectives.
Oliver Stone's "The Bomb" makes a case for the Revisionist position. After some consideration I don't buy it. Certainly the Soviet invasion was a factor but the bombs were a factor as well. It's easy to second guess from an ivory tower 80 years later but I have to say that Truman made the right decision.
One bit of information I think needs to be remembered and shows the casualty concerns in 1945. Approximately 500,000 Purple Hearts were manufactured in preparation for the invasion of Japan. They were expected to last until 1947.
There are still 120,000 of those medals available. Young soldiers wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan were awarded medals originally made for their grandfathers.
The Japanese defense strategy was called The Glorious Death of 100 Million at a time when there were fewer than 77 million Japanese on the home islands. If the IJA had gotten the ground invasion they wanted, millions of Japanese would have died along with much of their culture.
wow
Alternative history: What would post-war Japan be like without Stalin worrying about the American A-Bomb and wanting more?
Probably the best examination of the events leading up to the Surrender of Japan I have ever read is Downfall: The End of the Imperial Japanese Empire by Richard B. Frank. He did his best to view events from the perspectives of the combatants including their misperceptions of each other's actions and intents. He examines the deaths from forced labor camps, POW mistreatment, battle, engineered famines and plagues in the occupied territories, and the destruction of the food distribution infrastructure in Japan. The author carefully traces both the Japanese resistance to surrender and the origins of the American doctrine of unconditional surrender. He definitely takes the side of the orthodox version of history, but his research was so thorough and comprehensive, that it is difficult to come to any other conclusion than the bombs were the lesser of two evils.
Sounds like an interesting read. Thanks for mentioning it.
Vielen Dank! Ausgezeichnet gemacht, bitte weiter so!
Great channel. I appreciate that different (and sometimes conflicting) points of view are presented.
Excellent video as usually RTH. One thing I noted was an erroneous arrow at 34:51 pointing at Shikoku. According to the books I read, while Shikoku was initially considered as a target for invasion (either in place of or in support of the attack on Kyushu) it was eventually discarded due to inadequate port facilities available to capture.
It may be a bit outside your wheelhouse, but I think it would be really cool if you guys did a video on Operation Downfall as it was shaping up and its likely outcome. I have read two different books on it and found the plan incredibly interesting. I just can't believe anyone saying only 20k casualties would be taken by the Americans. Post-war demobilization and disarmament revealed that US intelligence had badly underestimated the scale of the defensive preparations, both in terms of defensive works and in the amount of men and material successfully transferred to Kyushu from Manchuria and Honshu. Of particular note was the false assumption that the IJAAS had been neutralized, when there were the 20,000 kamikaze aircraft secretly assembled to throw at the invasion fleet. It's also hard to know how the use of tactical nuclear weapons would've impacted the outcome of the battle, as more were being prepared.
we had just used the official westpoint map as a source for the animation, didn't know the plan evolved so much. Definitely would be an interesting topic to cover and we talked about these 1946 operations a lot. But the question always is: How do you vizualise something that didn't happen for a youtube documentary?
@@realtimehistory Hello
It's called Battle Planning.
Peace
@@realtimehistorywhile it might end up being quite long and drawn out, you could potentially represent what a battle for Japan would look like by considering the past tactics developed by both nations, and potentially new ones they might engineer to overcome new obstacles they would encounter while fighting each other. Perhaps we would see the introduction of massive earthquake bombs developed to reduce the multitude of Japanese mountains and hills to rubble to prevent the Japanese from playing the cave game that they refined so well throughout the campaign. Just a thought!
After watching this video, I definitely get the sense that the "Porque no los dos" principle applies. The different schools of thought definitely make a convincing argument that neither Soviet invasion nor the nuclear bombings could have knocked Japan out of the war in August 1945. It took the combination of both events to convince the military leadership that surrender was necessary and to give them a face-saving excuse for doing so.
I can't possibly imagine the brutality these young men went through.
Their lives were not in vain, and may their souls be at peace for an eternity!
This was a very well balanced argument for both sides of the bombing of japan. You presented both arguments well.
A terrific channel. Excellent analysis, from both perspectives.
0:10 Douglas McArthurs island hopping strategy*
The strategy is attributed to him and Nimitz as well as Halsey, it belongs to et al, not any specific one
Absolutely fabulous documentary, one of the best I've ever seen!
I must say, this was a truly excellent production. The last 15 minute discussion about the end of pacific war and the use of atomic weapons was a 1st class summary. 👍
as a revisionist's revisionist, I think the last 15 minutes was long winded guesswork (at best) The revisionists have had 80 years to armchair admiral about what Truman had 48 hrs to decide. Get over it.
😂
Mn090
My father worked in the Manhatten Project. To his dying day he never mentioned what his project he was working on for DuPont at Hanford Washington during the war.
I really like this presentation of the contemporary debate about the end of the war against Japan - very few documentaries canvass alternative views - well done
I'm truly impressed with this channel and have subscribed and look forward to hearing a lot interesting content.
I enjoyed your video and I gave it a Thumbs Up
Excellent content. Really enjoyed it. Very informative.
Hearing your correct pronunciation of "Okinawa" was refreshing. (In case you're all wondering, it has been misspronounced forever, so no, it isn't "Oki-nar-wah")
Edit: Damnit, and then you lapsed and reverted back to the American pronunciation.
Do you insist on pronouncing Germany “Deutschland?”
Wow this is so educational and fascinating. Thanks for sharing it. Btw I’m so grateful you pronounce and enunciate Japanese names and places properly!! 🤙🏽 Aloha nō
I think you did an amazing job of highlighting both sides of the argument regarding the use of the atomic bombs. Having read extensively on this matter I think the one one thing that is not discussed is the mind of Hirohito. In truth he was really more a figurehead than the actual ruler of Japan. In fact from the 1920s on Japan was ruled almost entirely by the military with civilian rule being nearly completely subjugated to the will of the Army leadership with the Navy playing a secondary role. All my readings on this matter show that the atomic bombs had a unique effect on Hirohito and drove him to force the military's hand
From what I have read and seen in the histories, Hirohito's role is complex and nuanced. It is known that he was aware of many of the horrors the Imperial Forces committed and either acquiesced or approved of them. I am not sure how much he could have done to prevent or mitigate them but it seems that he did not even try. Given that some of the August 14-15 mutineers were willing to take the emperor hostage or kill him to prevent the surrender rescript from being broadcast, it is clear that Hirohito was in a delicate position and he probably knew it.
I believe that Hirohito supported Japan's expansionist wars and had little regard for the death and suffering they caused. Again, I believe that, in the end, the surrender rescript was issued because the Soviet Union's entry into the war dashed any hope of a negotiated end of the war and the nuclear weapons showed that the Allied Powers could destroy Japan without expending large numbers of allied lives.
Always gets me, that image of the marine feeding the Japanese child with water. Hard men with compassion.
Do not forget the British Pacific Fleet of 6 fleet carriers, 15 other small carriers, 5 battleships, 11 cruisers, over 50 destroyers and frigates, 31 submarines, and over 50 supply and tanker ships. Over 1 million Commonwealth trooops served in South East Asia.
In 1941, Britain was an imperial power with colonies across south and south-east Asia. In December 1941, Japan attacked British territories in Hong Kong, Malaya (now Malaysia), Singapore and Burma (now also known as Myanmar).
Kind of like they were helping themselves by helping the allies.
@@stewiesaidthat So after Pearl Harbour were the Americans helping themselves by helping the allies?
Very informative and interesting channel! Great content.
Hey Jesse. Love this video. I keep forgetting you narrate this channel so I almost skipped this one because I’ve consumed so much Pacific War content at this point. Given you know so much about China during this time, would you consider making a video about what was exclusively on the Second Sino-Japanese War? It always fades once the United States enters the war.
A very enjoyable, and entertaining video. Thank you for the experience.
This is a great channel!
Great narration and presentation.
All within an half an hour programme.
A Happy and.....Peaceful New Year
Everyone....Probably not too Peaceful. 🥳🍻👍
Best Regards from England.
It seems to me that it is easy to judge the actions of Truman from the safety of a world mostly at peace.
As for the USSR invasion--Japan knew that although they likely were unable to defeat the USSR on the ground in China/Mongolia, but they were also well aware that the USSR could not invade Japan.
At 46:52 you can hear the narrators cat meowing during the voiceover recording
it happens right after he says "might end the war on better terms"
It was an informative and wonderful historical coverage episode...it was a great work....thank you respectful ( real time history) channel for sharing this magnificent epic
at 42:57 that's my wife's great-uncle (the younger of the 2 men) signing the surrender documents on board the Missouri
Well done. Richard Frank is correct " . . . it is fantasy, not history . . . ". History is a milieu of factors influencing outcomes. Information that is common knowledge now was not available or widely known at the time. How in the world were the Soviets going to invade Japan without the resources and logistics to support amphibious operations? The Japanese knew this. Truman's prime objective was to prevent US deaths, period. All other objectives were lower in the hierarchy. As it later played out in Eastern Europe, distrust of Soviet aspirations in Asia was warranted and deserved its high, but still secondary priority.
Did the Japanese knew this about the Soviet capabilities? Do you have a source for that? Would love to read more
@@realtimehistory It was no secret the Soviets did not have a navy worth mentioning. Ships going to or from the east coast would have to pass through areas easily monitored by Japan.
@@realtimehistory --- Yes, the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters was acutely aware of the Soviet incapacity to invade Japan's Home Islands. The Imperial Japanese Navy maintained a cruiser on patrol in the area despite the inability to refuel most of its other warships on such a constant basis. The Soviets had zero capability to successfully invade Hokkaido or the other Japanese Home Islands, the Japanese knew it, and the Soviets knew it despite Stalin's last minute proposals to occupy Hokkaido after the Japanese ceasefire and surrender to the United States and other Allies. The Soviet Pacific Fleet's flagship in a proposed hostile occupation was nothing more than a destroyer leader which lacked a serious anti-aircraft armament. The Imperial Japanese Navy's remaining strength in Japan's Home Islands after being reduced to a small fraction of its former strength was still far more numerous and powerful than the small number of destroyers and small craft in the Soviet Pacific Fleet. The thousands of Japanese combat aircraft alone would have sunk any units of the Soviet Pacific Fleet which attempted to breach the American sea mine blockade surrounding Hokkaido and other Japanese Home Islands. See:
Giangreco, D.M. (2016). "The Hokkaido Myth" (PDF). Journal of Strategy and Politics (2): 148-164.
@@waynepatterson5843 Excellent source
Him: Got a source for that?
You: BAM
Nice one!@@waynepatterson5843
Outstanding work
Why did Japan surrender? The nuclear bombs? Yes. The combined submarine and aerial mining blockade? Yes. The conventional bombing? Yes. The Soviets joining in? Yes.
A lot argue an either / or viewpoint. One of the other channels I watch likes to caution against mono-causality when it comes to history. I think Jessie and the team at RTH hit it right when they pointed out there isn't one person or one small committee making decisions in isolation, there's networks and multiple influences. Great vid - glad I could finally watch it 3 days after release.
I agree. Why does have it to be one reason? It could be all of the above. Makes more sense.
This balanced account which allows the viewer to draw his/her own conclusions is rare and important.
thanks a lot!
Iwo Jima was the biggest milestone to Japan getting the 2 nukes! The US did the math, extrapolated the casualties and chose the "nuclear" shortcut! Simple as that!
Peace treaty between USSR (then Russia) and Japan still didn't signed.
Great video, this was extremely interesting
The Soviet declaration of war could not have been that much of a shock, as the Soviets notified Japan in early April that they would not be renewing the Soviet-Japanese non-aggression pact when it would expire three months later.
17:39 the value of Iwo Jima is that Marines are cheap and B29s are very very expensive. They paid a high price but if you get 2,400 emergency touch down landings... it's a price you have to pay with a hard heart. Pelilieu, that was bs
I'm sorry, but those "revisionists" sound like a bunch of flat earthers to me. Lol
My thoughts as well, they ruined this video spouting that garbage for so long. Want to mention it then sure whatever but for 20 minutes…. Just no.
Excellent video and perspectives of this war and the ending of it.
Incredible documentaries!
Thanks!
Truman dropped the ball on Stalin. I heard Churchill and Gen Patton wanted to take Stalin but the president didn't want to.
perfect visulation and narrative
Okinawa is not part of Japan, it is an independent country. The world should recognize it independence
Extremely informative, precise, and concise. Great content, thank you
It has since been 110 years since WW1 . We have History documentaries but some leaders from certain countries have not learn anything about the horrors that wars bring .
Great content. Excellent diagrams
For those with a revisionist perspective, put yourself into Truman's shoes. How do you NOT use the bomb? Regarding Iwo's usefulness to the bomber campaign- it does not bear out in the USAAF's historical record. The 7th fighter command did not make use of Iwo as a fighter base- it was too far from the Japanese mainland. Additionally, the claim that 29000 USAAF bomber crew were saved was pure speculation. The actual number saved comes to a couple of thousand. Tops. So Iwo, despite the postwar obfuscation, was not ultimately worth the cost. The blockade argument fails to take into account the 40,000 Asian civilians dying every month under Japanese occupation.
O-ki-na-wa, not O-KI-na-wa, i.e., the stress is on the first syllable, not the 2nd
I was fascinated from beginning to end.
In a dark way, its battles like these that still have not taught us all how wasteful war truly is.
Netflix would love to buy your history documentaries. They are much better than what they produce.
I do not know much about the great game world leaders play. But i do know that both of my grandfather's were both deployed to participate in Downfall. They have survived up to this point being involved in many actions in the pacific theater and Atlantic theater. The odds are one of their numbers if not both were up. Then what would the future be for their many descendants? We would all be the never born...
Great video, it's impossible to cover all the different factors in one video. It's likely we will never know all the facts, it's not likely the dialogue over these events will ever reach a consensus.
They don't have much in the way of heavy weapons, but they do have plenty of artillery ???
As to be expected. Phenomenal attention to detail, production and quality.
The revisionist views usually have two common characteristics; 1) An anti-western undercurrent 2) Wholly ignoring the surrender message by the Emperor who specifically mentions the bomb but NOT the invasion of Manchuria
It was left out consciously. The threat of a new super weapon was used as an excuse to capitulate without losing face. In reality Hirohito would then be almost assassinated by the army radicals despite the excuse. In reality Tojo was never willing to surrender and wanted the japanese civilization rather be wiped out than surrender to the enemy. The truth is that the atomic bombs did far less damage than the rapidly ramping up fire bombing and it would have eventually razed every city of the IJ, but it was used as a successful propaganda device on both sides to get out of the war without, ironically, complete destruction of Japan.
@@thedamntrain3467Left out? You know this how?
The Pacific Theatre is an Inferno. Brutal. Horrendous.
Without a doubt this cats channel is excellent
This was an excellent presentation of the Japanese surrender with both Orthodox and Revisionist points of view.
I met Admiral Yamamoto's grandson in the late 1980s at the Norwood Country Club in Massachusetts and found him to be very polite, charming, exceptionally kind, and gracious. He was very reluctant to get into any discussions about his grandfather or the Japanese government's surrender, in 1945 however, he hinted somewhat that the Japanese regime finally decided to capitulate once the United States guaranteed the survival of his reign and Japan's transformation to the Constitutional Monarchy.
This is only one man's thoughts and opinions, however, it must be said that there were a multitude of reasons for Japan's final capitulation and surrender, and in the end, it is up to individuals to make up their own judgments based on the uncovered available information.
You didn't by any chance meet Jacky Kennedy and ask her how her trip to Dallas went?
Anytime Jesse pronounces something in a funny way, I figure I've been doing it wrong. Funny thing, I'm so used to the way Americans pronounce Okinawa that Jesse's pronunciation sounds inflected to me, but when I say it his way myself, I realize it's not, that it's flat, the way Japanese words typically are spoken.
Use the vernacular in use at the time, i.e., American pronunciations. It sounds phony otherwise.
@@fredrickmarsiello4395 He uses the vernacular from the time. From the people who lived there. I suspect you also leave similarly asinine comments on videos by Dr Mark Felton, etc, correctly pronouncing German cities in the local pronunciation.
Great video!
Thanks!
I believe that the US general referenced at the 12:39 point was Erskine Graves, not Graves Erskine.
Amazing stuff. Seriously amazing.
An Excellent Historically Correct and well explained Presentationon the Final Defeat of the Imperial Army of Japan.