My 10 Essential Early Black Mal Albums: Venom - Black Metal Hellhammer - Apocalyptic Raids EP Celtic Frost - Morbid Tales EP Bathory - Under The Sign Of The Black Mark Sarcófago - INRI Mayhem - De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas Darkthrone - A Blaze In The Northern Sky Blasphemy - Fallen Angel Of Doom Beherit - Drawing Down The Moon Burzum - Burzum
The whole idea of this debate/list- lumping 80's & 90's BM together (first and second wave) and simply calling it 'early BM' is a total disservice to the genre. They put Venom and Burzum in the same category, give me a break! It should be two shows- one for first wave and one for second wave. As it stands this list is a load of bollocks.
@@MeetTheSLAYER Not exclusively. Plenty of important second wave bands from elsewhere. Czechia had Root, Master's Hammer, Greece had Rotting Christ, Varathron, Necromantia, France had all the bands in Les Legiones Noires... could go on all day. The Scandinavian bands did the most to bring global attention to the genre, but the second wave was certainly more than just them.
Hvis Lyset Tar Oss is Burzum's most haunting record in my oppinion. It is atmospheric as hell, the vocals and album cover freaks me out. Even though it's only 4 songs I think it's better than Filosofem, Self Titeled and Det Som En Gang Var in my oppinion
These are the awards: Most ahead of their time: "Dissection - The Somberlain" Lone album to shape a genre: "Thorns - Trøndertun" Coldest album (debatable): "Emperor - In the Nightside Eclipse/ Satyricon - Dark Medieval Times" BM in it's most purest form stylistically: "Darkthrone - Transylvanian Hunger" Most historically significant to the genre: "Mayhem - De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas" For excellence in band progression: Enslaved
Mercyful fate definitely needs to be there! Their imagery and lyrics are definitely ask dark as any of those other early Black metal bands! Sure it's not speed black metal like some of the others but it's definitely black heavy metal!
I seriosly don't understand why they put "Filosofem" on the list and not "Aske", which was a much earlier record that actualy came with a Zipo lighter and had a burnt church on the cover. What could be more black metal than that?
Terje Sørensen Had this discussion so many times too. Filosofem is great, but as an album is not as satisfying as any of the first three Burzum albums, including the Aske EP.
Salonus Krypticus Correct, as we said Aske the EP, along with the first three albums are, in my opinion, more influential and important, yet Filosofem continues to get high praise over Burzum, Det Som or the mighty Hvis Lyset and I'll never understand this? They are timeless masterpieces!
Salonus Krypticus Maybe it was more influential towards ultimately spawning the atmospheric black metal sub-genre, but Burzum still had atmospheric parts in all his prior albums. Filosofem started the fuzzier sound in atmospheric bm, but then there's bands like Strid and even the real creator of the bm sound, Thorns, that already showed that style, before Filosofem. Vargs vocals on his early albums influenced the depressive bm vocal style too. We could talk about this forever :)
Jason looks like he just wants Norwegian Black Metal bands and looks rather uncomfortable with all the Venom, Bathory, Celtic Frost, Mercyful Fate, Sarcofago...
Mercyful is a pre Black Metal band want you or not. Yes, instrumentally, they sound heavy metal, but lirically has satanic and obscure themes. This is enough to they were considered great influence to both genres.
@@jaredlesperance6874 your 100% accurate , but he had no clue about anything outside the mainstream . Probably never heard of anything Black Metal his buddies didn't talk about . In this day and age is no excuse for such ignorance,he could have done a little research on the internet knowing he was going to appear on the show if he didn't have much knowledge
Jason Longo is as personable and exciting as a bag of potatoes. :/ I'd be pumped to talk metal with you guys at the banger bar and he doesn't even seem too care. Lol.
Dissection "The Somberlain" is one that should be mentioned. As for the artwork of Emperor's "In the Nightside Eclipse", It takes the chromatic influence from the Dissection Album.
It’s the same artist who made both covers, and they were released less than 2 months apart. I wouldn’t say it takes any influence one way or another, Necrolord was simply popular in the scene as an artist. Many many bands used him for their covers.
I'm surprised Sam has not heard or is familiar with Beherit. Very atmospheric. The only other album missing is Impaled Nazarene Tol Cormpt Norz Norz Norz. Other Scandinavian bands exist and are influential other than the Norwegians.
Sam nails the Venom summary on the head. It may be difficult for those who are younger to wrap their heads around the importance of Venom's Black Metal LP but it is unquestionably the cornerstone of the genre. As a zine editor, tape trader, etc.. in the early 80's I can assure you that the bands I was corresponding with and interviewing at the time (Slayer, Bathory, Hellhammer, Exodus, Metallica, Crowley, Nasty Savage, you name it) - they ALL derived inspiration for what they did from Venom's first two albums.
In several previous episodes, the "proto" band that started the movement has been put above the title, signifying that they spawned or influenced the movement but weren't necessarily part of it. That's where I would have put Venom. Leave them above the list and THEN put the top 10 essential BM albums underneath. It seems like a reasonable compromise, and then you could keep someone like Ulver or Satyricon (I wouldn't necessarily put Enslaved on there, much as I love them, because their early BM stuff wasn't as influential as their 2000s-era prog albums).
I get that this guest has been playing music and has been involved with metal for 20+ years, but he doesn't seem so well versed with this subject. Maybe he's just not so great at elaborating on his thoughts, but it comes across like he's unfamiliar with this genre, save the more popular bands.
Black metal doesn't have to be hard if you do some research. I understand there are varying factors at play here and I didn't really grill the guy, but I don't believe I was off base with my observations. Just so I know for future reference, is there a basic outline you guys try and work through, do you guys have talking points or just wing it?
We have a script outline but alot gets decided/changed on the fly depending on what's going on in the chat. We like to say this is a threeway conversation between Sam, the guest and the audience.
The guest Jason has little respect for the true origins of the black metal genre that influenced and largely created the bands he would later love in the '90s. It all traces back to Venom! Martin Ain himself said Hellhammer started out imitating Venom which led to Celtic Frost. Quorthon followed Venom around from city to city when they came to Scandinavia as he was a huge die hard fan of Venom who were a giant influence on Bathory. Dead from Mayhem had a famous quote that roughly said all black metal is here because of the fathers Venom as he put it. Plenty of early pics of Euronymous wearing Venom tshirts. In my view whether you love Venom's early music or not black metal traces it's evolutionary roots directly from them. Even listen to the sound at the start of the song "Black Metal" it sounds much like the early Bathory and Scandinvian bm guitar sound.
I would have personally looked into other bands in the scene that were hugely influential under the radar. Bands like Samael with Ceremony of Opposites and Rotting Christ with Thy Mighty Contract, maybe Enslaved's Frost too.
I'm watching along and wondering ...are they really not going to even mention Samael ? Ceremony of Opposites is a top ten BM album of all time. Samael are criminally overlooked.
Adam Fine I don’t know why - I am normally straight. But when I listen to black metal I feel the strong urge to finger a big muscular black man in his ass and then smell my fingers. How do I cope with this fantasy? I don’t know what to do.
Neckbeards and beanies never look too excited about anything . How do you spell hipster? He's a Hot topic guy if they have Hot topics in Canada that is. I wish you would have guests that know about the music instead of choosing someone because of their geographic location . Canadian pride does not make for a good show. This joker's never even heard of Beherit that's insulting , and downright disrespectful to the black metal community. Funny the other guest that really sucked wasn't stuck up asshole on the power metal episode which ironically his name was also Jason. He was also equally ignorant . A glam hair metal dude , and a hipster . Both equally ignorant of the musical genres they supposedly represent
So many millions of fundamentalists do not recognize early Venom and Mercyful fate albums as BM classics - why? Oh, because they have melodies and hard rock gimmicks and the whole old bag of tricks. SO FUCKING WHAT? Black Metal is not only about chainsaw guitars and sepulchral Halloween vokillz. It's about ambience and spirit, and in that sense, Venom and MFate MADE IT . So, albums like the Venom Trilogy and MFate's Melissa and "..Oath" are BLACK METAL CLASSICS. They paved the way... and I even fear that I am now (at 53) getting a little bit tired of NBM, especially after knowing from the words of people WHO WERE there in the day, that it was basically a can of bees... of course I also cherish the memories of Bathory's early tetralogy and Hellhammer's scarce discographic legacy. Why do I think this, you may ask... - well just watch this Lock Horns video. Any way I was 18 in 1981, that best explains my opinion. Lock Horns UP !
jc costa da silva So fucking true! Can't believe so many kids here trying to rewrite history. I have a feeling many here trying to discredit Venom's legacy weren't even born when those first two albums came out. Venom started the image, Venom started the lyrics, Venom created the name,Venom started the chainsaw fuzz guitar, the fake names derived from demonology, and above all the ATTITUDE! Love live Venom and Mercyful Fate!
Mercyful Fate, Celtic Frost/Hellhammer, Possessed, Venom, Bathory were all huge influences on Black Metal so I believe they all deserve a place on this list! this all helped the great black metal bands to come like Darkthrone, Mayhem, Burzum, Emperor, Immortal, Gorgoroth, those are what I consider great 2nd wave Black Metal bands.
I'd like to say thanks for another great video Sam and company. To me, the feeling and atmosphere of black metal is exemplified by Bathory, and that sound of another world that the darkness, sorrow and "the journey into the void" is the hallmark of what became black metal as we know it. Many elements came together to allow black metal to exist. Mercyful Fate, Sarcafago, Hellhammer, Celtic Frost, Motorhead, GBH, Amibex, Discharge, Venom, Bathory, and many more are essential to the formation of that signature sound. Are any of those bands black metal? Depends on how YOU feel, and YOUR experience while partaking of this artform. But there seems to be a dividing line at the Norwegian bands and that's when the genre ceses to be super a influential mix of many things and become a solid cohesive genre that stands on it's own.
Thank u Sam for the amazing work that you have been putting up for almost so long. I have always appreciated your work and your channel. I have always wanted to be a part of the debates u host but unfortunately i have discovered your channel a little late. Hope to be a part of the other future events... Much love from India brother\m/
Also, maybe even before Sodom, a band called Holy Moses (which most of you probably don't know) Put out a demo called Black Metal Masters in 1980, and Satan's Angel in 1982. The music is darker than Venom, almost sounding like Deathcrush or early Darkthrone. The vocals, oh the vocals. The vocals actually sound like they are out of Live in Leipzig, or 2nd wave Black Metal!
Venom defined black metal. The Norwegians just 'redefined' it for themselves. Plus black metal in the 80's was defined by it's satanic lyrical content and not necessarily it's sound. Thus bands like Mercyful Fate and Possessed were described as black metal bands back in the day.
Pure Holocaust totally needs to be there! That album is top ten early black metal material all day long. An absolute classic! Pummelling, melodic, raw and quintessentially Norwegian black metal \,,/
despite the guest adding almost nothing substantial to this segment, this is still one of my favorites recently. thanks for doing these. I need all of those magnets, you should look into having them licensed and sell them through banger, because I would love a full black metal magnet covered fridge.
Thanks Raymond. And yeah, it's a licensing issue we can't sell band logos. But Banger's merch/shoppe is getting a relaunch soon and maybe we'll make Lock Horn magnets. As a consolation prize. :-)
Why would anything from the 90's be considered "Early" black metal. That's ridiculous. The list should have had bands like Venom, Hellhammer/Celtic Frost, Slayer (Show No Mercy), Bathory, Vulcano, Sarcofago, Mayhem, Sodom, Tormentor, Bulldozer, Morbid, Mefisto, Sabbat, Necrodeath and such bands.
those are just inspirations to the Early, yes I said Early, black metal bands but that doesn't make it Early Black Metal, it's only black metal now because we know they influenced the bands like Darkthrone etc
What the younger members of the metal community might not be aware of is that the term Black Metal had a different meaning in the 80's. It only referred to a band that had lyrics mainly focused on satanism / anti-xtianity. Venom coined the term but Bathory defined the sound.
Nobody wants to talk about Hellhammer but everyone wants to talk about Mayhem. This being despite the fact that three members of Mayhem are named after Hellhammer songs (Messiah, Maniac and Euronymous) and another named Hellhammer! Which just goes to show how fucking clueless most black metal fans are.
Hellhammer was mentioned by Sam in the debate and beforehand in chat we spoke about it a bit, comments were just not enough to be read. And if you imply that Hellhammer is more important to black metal in general than Mayhem, you're delusional.
Er nope. I'm not implying anything, I'm flat out saying it. There is no more important band to extreme metal than Hellhammer period other than Bathory (maybe) Just because Mayhem added a few things that got copied by all of the other Norwgian sheep doesn't take away from the fact black metal had been defined long before they discovered tremolo picking and blast beats.
Oh and by the way. Ulver are the only truly great creative force to come out of the Norwegian scene and Bergtatt was the blueprint for so many modern bands, to leave them off was a bit silly.
I'd like to make a connection between your Lock Horns video about NWOBHM where you mentionned Witchfynde and this one: can we consider Withfynde as a precursor in terms of imagery? The artwork of the Give 'Em Hell album looks so evil and black metal to me! And it only came out in 1980!
Also angel witch was a big influence on early black metal,baphomet ,extermination day,angel of death,flight 19 were extreme song for that period(all of them were written in 1978) and the debut album is full of ocult stuff.
This definitely seems to be an age issue. Any metalhead in their 40s knows how significant and mindfucking Venom, Hellhammer/Celtic Frost, Sarcofago, and Sodom were in redefining what metal was back then, especially if you were coming off Maiden and Priest in the 80s. This dude Jason and the most of the chat seem too young to have experienced any real shift or evolution firsthand.
D. McG I'm 26 and I'm on the side on history on that one and agree with you guys. Venom should be the legend and they shouldn't be erased because some newer generations don't understand the fucking immense impact they had back in the early 80's. They were the pioneers, deal with it.
Right. I often make this comparison: Chuck and DEATH are credited as being the first "official" Death Metal band, but it was POSSESSED that coined the term in '85. So, do you leave Possessed out of the DM equation, or include them in the mix? Same with VENOM and BM.
The first sound of black metal was created with hellhammer (fav. Satanic rites) and bathory. My personal favorites from the first wave are bathory, tormentor and samael!
Sam I am totally grateful for what you do man, you keep the metal flag flying and that's what matters in the end. I watch all your shows and while I might disagree with some viewpoints, I respect you for being a huge metal fan. All I ask is please leave political viewpoints out, that shit does not matter, its all about the music, good metal is good metal period!
Sodom's "In the Sign of Evil" and "Obsessed by Cruelty" have WAY more in common with Venom, Bathory, and Hellhammer than any releases by Kreator and Destruction, who sound relatively much more like Slayer, Exodus, and Metallica, so I strongly disagree on that one.
Actaully early Kreator and Destruction have something in common with them as well in fact they all recorded their records at Caet Studios Berlin, Germany same studio Hellhammer/early Celtic Frost used. It was all part of the same deal.
Great episode. Love this series. The more content the better from Sam and Banger, we need this shit to keep going. Have to agree with many on here, not sure Venom is the BM jump-off, but Welcome To Hell and Black Metal freaked the fuck out of a 12 year old me in early 80's (in a really fucking awesome way!). Still, Bathory s/t and The Return seemed to me like the 1st albums where the "sound of black metal" cultivated over the next 30 years actually took form. Frost - love them, Venom - love them, Fate - loved them all, but a genre is defined by most importantly a "sound". Those bands influenced the sound, but BM as it came to be was just something different. Could of benefited from a definition of the word "early" i.e. years we should be looking at. A younger person than myself might say "screw Bathory, fucking Enthroned or Taake!" and they wouldn't be wrong, just coming from a different place time wise. Maybe Essential Early should've been set at '84 to '94 or something? "Early" is individually dictated by someone's introduction point. Love what you guys are up to, thanks.
I'd really like to see you guys have a modern black metal episode. Black Metal has come a long way since then and anything outside of the 90's hasn't really been discussed on the show. Leviathan, Blut Aus Nord, Deathspell Omega, Wolves in the Throne Room (can't remember if this made the Blackgaze tree or not), Watain, tons of bands that could be added to the tree.
Man, why the hell is Dark Medieval Times by Satyricon not on there? That's disappointing, it is one of my favorite bm albums of all time. It wasn't even mentioned.
Mayhem members have acknowledged that they learned they raw sound from bands in Colombia such as Typhon, Inquisition, Masacre, Parabellum, Nebiros..etc
Burzum Aske , Darkthrone A Blaze In the Northern Sky , Immortal Pure Holocaust , Mayhem De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas , Venom Black Metal , Hellhammer Apocalyptic Raids , Bathory the Return
Dissection and Sacramentums First one are my favorites but Black metal at all has so much gems like kvist, taake, vinterland, or the early abigor couldnt decide which are the best, i love all the classic albums the same in their own way
I would include KAT albums, a heavy metal band with a lot of black metal elements, the lyrics, from time to time almost deep shrieks, I would rather say it's a polish version of Venom, but the band is influencial for Polish bands such as Vader, Behemoth and many others.
you fucking joking right? Slayer is no way in any form death metal, no matter how much twist the definition of the genre or reach. They definitely inspired and helped pave TOWARD death metal but were NEVER death metal themselves. They are firmly planted in the trash family. I cant tell if you were just fucking around; sarcasm is hard to detect in text.
i really enjoy this channel. there's a lot of knowledge and diversity. i'm 19, very passionate about music and from England. the first metal i even heard of was from the new wave of British heavy metal, typically :P like Deep Purple. i have really began to admire the genre that is black metal though, because thankfully i befriended some awesome metalheads. it is quite incredible how many genres there really are in metal. my top 10 black metal bands that i like the most are: Venom Bathory Mayhem Burzum Darkthrone Hellhammer Behemoth Anaal Nathrakh Emperor Imperial Triumphant (this band genuinely fucking scares me) there are others that i enjoy like Celtic Frost, Taake, Gorgoroth, Watain, Agalloch, Immortal, Satyricon, Marduk, Sunn O))), Katharsis, Korgonthurus & Carach Angren. and i have many more black metal bands to listen to! if anyone sees this comment and would like to recommend me something to listen to, please do respond :) also, people need to stop being mean about the guest in this episode. he must have been nervous as this was his first time.
Sooooo when it comes to the Ulver issue, it DEFINITELY should've been up there. You guys need to think of Bergtatt, Kveldssanger, and Nattens Madrigal almost as one...mainly because it was meant to be a trilogy. Each of those album styles are now widely used in modern day black metal..If that's not 100% influential on the genre, then I don't know what is.
Respect your opinion, but definitely beg to differ on that. Bergtatt came out in '95, In The Nightside... '94, Filosofem '96. They were right at the heart of the second wave, and definitely integral to the genre.
This is about Early Black Metal like it or not would be bands like Bathory,Venom,Hellhammer,Sarcofago,and Mercyful Fate. Also the first Sepultura, Sodom,Destruction,Slayer,Possessed albums were, regardless of thrash/death metal sounding thsa is where Black Metal started.Also no one will mention them but Onslaught's "Power from Hell' and Exorcist's "Nightmare Theater"I would consider "early Black Metal albums.The bands from the early 90's are not the early/first wave of Black Metal.Bands like Darkthrone,Mayhem,Immortal were obviously influenced by these early Black Metal albums/bands.
edward jones Nightmare Theater was such an odd record. At times, like early Bathory, but a song like Black Mass was so different, very campy, cheesy classic/speed.
Great Black Metal albums; there is a lot of bands and records for a top ten, but in general you took a good choices. I just pick Eld from enslaved and Shadowthrone from Satyricon to add! fucking killer channel ImI
You should research about Parabellum and all the Ultrametal scene in Colombia and its relation with Euronymous and the early norwegian Black Metal scene. That will give you a whole new perspective about the birth of Black Metal.
Mayhem - Death Crush is a sick Early Black Metal Album \,,/ I really need to stop missing out on these shows!!!!! would have loved to have been involved in the Industrial show, My fav genre of Metal
I feel like the term "early" is far too vague. A lot of clarity would have been had if you set a definite parameter like only pre 94/3/2. You could have a top ten list for black metal 94 alone that would be a debate indeed. On another note, hell yes for the death/doom.
People who refer to Mercyful Fate as just "traditional heavy metal" really annoy me. Do you not hear the thrashy riffing and drumming when compared to their contemporaries of the early 80s?! Contemporaries, meaning Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath... They definitely DID have more in common with Motörhead and Venom than THOSE bands. The main difference (than the two bands I just mentioned) was that Mercyful Fate had more melody in their musical equation. Of course, these are the bands I'm mentioning because this is pre-thrash; before the likes of Metallica and Slayer, etc. arrived on the scene. King Diamond's vocal acrobatics weren't akin to the bands that came before them either. His falsetto could rival that of Rob Halford but his growls could rival that of Cronos!! Mercyful Fate gets lumped in with regular metal far too often but they were so much more than that! I feel like I'm one of the few people who just gets lost in their music when I listen to them and I just hear the heaviness and atmosphere that pulls me in every time! I feel like there are a lot of people that don't pay much attention when they listen to music. I listen to it and FEEL it. It's harder to categorize them due to their myriad of styles, but they aren't just "traditional metal"... They're so much more than that. Anyway, I just really felt the need to address this since people tend to downplay them a lot, especially when considering the timeline that they arrived onto the scene.
If we're considering the definition of "albums" as a compilation of songs written by a single artist, I think the Witching Metal demo by Sodom is the first Black Metal record (even though it is technically a demo). It came out in 1982, before Hellhammer and Bathory. It sounds 100 times more true black metal than Venom
Kudos. Black Metal is a tough one. I didn't agree with a lot of what was said and bands that were "unknown" to the host and guest but whatever, much like the death doom episode this is obviously not a genre these dudes have studied deeply. It could also be said that BM is an incredibly vast and multifaceted genre, this is a huge task to take on. There could be an entire season of shows debating Black Metal. So, good job for giving it a go. I'd enjoy an episode focused on USBM.
Thanks, Noah. Of all the metal genres, the Black Metal episodes are the most challenging. Not because we're not fans, or there aren't Bangers who are super into it, but because the audience is, shall we say, incredibly opinionated. Not everyone has the guts to go on live TV and debate this stuff!
BANGER it's rad that it's live!! I bet it's waaaay scarier than it looks! But it looks fun too. I only just stumbled upon your show, haven't googled you guys or anything, but I'm wondering if these are presented as a podcast anywhere? Watching is cool but it would also be awesome if I could listen in my car or at work. Keep it up though, I really enjoy the show! Thanks for your hard work and dedication!
So far these are just a live stream show that is archived on our UA-cam channel. As for podcasts, Banger has always been about making films so not sure that's in our near future but you never know. Thanks for the feedback.
Mercyful Fate was a prog metal band . Other than King diamond image his makeup specifically , and the lyrics , had more to do musically with tech death and power metal
Mercyful Fate totally belongs on this list man. Between King's corpsepaint, and the lyrical content...yeah it needs to be on here. Id put Dont Break the Oath. I agree that Live at Leipzig is the Mayhem album to put up.
jilemnice occultist is a black diamond....totally overlooked ...i ordered it and drawing down the moon out of the back of metal maniacs...masters hammer are far and away overlooked genius
Lock Horns is a hell of a show and Sam is always perfect, but please choose your guests wisely. this dude barely says the same adjectives for each album and doesn't have a clue about black metal :(
First of all it was not Venom's Black Metal who inspired the genre, it was Welcome To Hell a year earlier. Many actual Black Metal musicians from that time remember that album as something really evil and worth listening to. Second, as Venom, Bathory, Hellhammer and Mercyful Fate are widely considered the main pioneers of the 1st Wave there are other bands who also played this sort of fast heavily distorted and evil music, for example Sodom (Germany), Parabellum and Reencarnación (Colombia), Sepultura, Vulcano, Mystifier and Sarcófago (Brazil), Bulldozer and Mortuary Drape (Italy), Blasphemy (Canada), Von (USA), Tormentor (Hungary), Samael (Switzerland), Master's Hammer (Czech Republic), Pentagram (Chile) and many others.
if we are talking about essential albums and not just bands then I think Panzer Division Marduk should for sure be up there. That album changed a lot of things in Black Metal...it was faster than ANY BM that I know of that had previously come out. How could this not be up there? Also Not adding Satyricon - Nemesis Devina is insane ... Everyone knows those riffs, they are iconic. Remember we aren't talking just bands here..we are talking about THE ESSENTIAL ALBUMS!
I have a question is Mercyful Fate and celtic Frost Black Metal or heavy metal for Mercyful Fate and thrash for celtic frost? Venom is no way hard rock. I don't think Venom sounds like Kiss, Van Halen , Rush and Def Leppard. they would be closer to heavy Metal.
Mark Santucci Mercyful Fate (traditional heavy metal) Celtic Frost (death metal, with aspects of doom, black and thrash. Experimental) Venom (original black metal. Norway and Sweden are irrelevant as they came later!)
Along with brazilian Sarcófago there was some bands from Medellín Colombia, specially Parabellum and Rencarnación who plays a rude anti-technical extreme metal in the mid eighties.
Neckbeard in a beanie can't wait to get home and crank up some Black veil brides and some Slipknot. Which I'm sure he knows a lot more about those types of music than he does black metal. Which maybe he's heard of
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I think Beherit is overlooked quite often, it's definitely an essential band for those who love BM.
Blasphemy too
Agreed
Under the Sign of the Black Mark is everything
Damn right
Next time debate with a Black Metal musician.
Yeah, no shit. The guy doesn't know that much about Black Metal.
Yeah. I enjoyed this episode a lot, but the guest wasn't as passionate as the other guests have been.
"Black Metal is Evil" thanks tips
Jajaja yea
This guy isn't very knowledgable.
My 10 Essential Early Black Mal Albums:
Venom - Black Metal
Hellhammer - Apocalyptic Raids EP
Celtic Frost - Morbid Tales EP
Bathory - Under The Sign Of The Black Mark
Sarcófago - INRI
Mayhem - De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas
Darkthrone - A Blaze In The Northern Sky
Blasphemy - Fallen Angel Of Doom
Beherit - Drawing Down The Moon
Burzum - Burzum
You forgot Tormentor and Master´s Hammer
Sweet list
Dude like half of those are proto black metal.
I personally find Hvis Lyset Tar Oss to be the most essential Burzum album
The whole idea of this debate/list- lumping 80's & 90's BM together (first and second wave) and simply calling it 'early BM' is a total disservice to the genre. They put Venom and Burzum in the same category, give me a break! It should be two shows- one for first wave and one for second wave. As it stands this list is a load of bollocks.
You guys really Need to split this to a proto/first wave black metal list and a second wave list
Fair enough, but you'd reach the same conclusion - one wouldn't exist without...
@@karllux-d6g the first wave would include Celtic Frost, the second wave came from the Scandinavian countries.
@@MeetTheSLAYER Not exclusively. Plenty of important second wave bands from elsewhere. Czechia had Root, Master's Hammer, Greece had Rotting Christ, Varathron, Necromantia, France had all the bands in Les Legiones Noires... could go on all day. The Scandinavian bands did the most to bring global attention to the genre, but the second wave was certainly more than just them.
Hvis Lyset Tar Oss is Burzum's most haunting record in my oppinion. It is atmospheric as hell, the vocals and album cover freaks me out. Even though it's only 4 songs I think it's better than Filosofem, Self Titeled and Det Som En Gang Var in my oppinion
These are the awards:
Most ahead of their time: "Dissection - The Somberlain"
Lone album to shape a genre: "Thorns - Trøndertun"
Coldest album (debatable): "Emperor - In the Nightside Eclipse/ Satyricon - Dark Medieval Times"
BM in it's most purest form stylistically: "Darkthrone - Transylvanian Hunger"
Most historically significant to the genre: "Mayhem - De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas"
For excellence in band progression: Enslaved
TheIndescribableMan I agree completely with The Somberlain and ITNE.
Mercyful fate definitely needs to be there! Their imagery and lyrics are definitely ask dark as any of those other early Black metal bands! Sure it's not speed black metal like some of the others but it's definitely black heavy metal!
They are basically irrelevant to the BM scene. In an essay naming them would be an automatic fail.
I seriosly don't understand why they put "Filosofem" on the list and not "Aske", which was a much earlier record that actualy came with a Zipo lighter and had a burnt church on the cover. What could be more black metal than that?
Terje Sørensen Had this discussion so many times too. Filosofem is great, but as an album is not as satisfying as any of the first three Burzum albums, including the Aske EP.
aske is an EP first of all
Salonus Krypticus Correct, as we said Aske the EP, along with the first three albums are, in my opinion, more influential and important, yet Filosofem continues to get high praise over Burzum, Det Som or the mighty Hvis Lyset and I'll never understand this? They are timeless masterpieces!
+iBelial Because that album defined the meaning of atmosphere in black metal
Salonus Krypticus Maybe it was more influential towards ultimately spawning the atmospheric black metal sub-genre, but Burzum still had atmospheric parts in all his prior albums. Filosofem started the fuzzier sound in atmospheric bm, but then there's bands like Strid and even the real creator of the bm sound, Thorns, that already showed that style, before Filosofem. Vargs vocals on his early albums influenced the depressive bm vocal style too. We could talk about this forever :)
Jason looks like he just wants Norwegian Black Metal bands and looks rather uncomfortable with all the Venom, Bathory, Celtic Frost, Mercyful Fate, Sarcofago...
Mercyful is a pre Black Metal band want you or not. Yes, instrumentally, they sound heavy metal, but lirically has satanic and obscure themes. This is enough to they were considered great influence to both genres.
Early black metal may not sound like what was to come but they helped start it out.
Thank you I wish more people would refer to the 80's bands and not the 90's bands when referring to early black metal.
That's because he has no clue about the differences between 1st wave and 2nd wave black metal.
@@jaredlesperance6874 your 100% accurate , but he had no clue about anything outside the mainstream . Probably never heard of anything Black Metal his buddies didn't talk about . In this day and age is no excuse for such ignorance,he could have done a little research on the internet knowing he was going to appear on the show if he didn't have much knowledge
I'm glad Bathory made it on, but I feel their debut (the yellowgoat album) was the true beginning of the LO-FI sound of black metal.
Listen to Don't Burn the Witch off Black Metal by Venom and tell me what you hear.
Jason Longo is as personable and exciting as a bag of potatoes. :/ I'd be pumped to talk metal with you guys at the banger bar and he doesn't even seem too care. Lol.
Hey! He likes the basics!
Starting a debate on black metal never ends well for anyone, this was extremely constructive though
Thanks. It's definitely the trickiest waters on Lock Horns!
Patrick William I don't think banger should debate on DSBM. I think there are barely viewers who even know what dsbm is.
BANGERTV - All Metal It's clear. You don't define black metal by the bands that came later. You define it by the originators - VENOM.
JenErik🤘 venom isn’t a black metal band lol
Dissection "The Somberlain" is one that should be mentioned. As for the artwork of Emperor's "In the Nightside Eclipse", It takes the chromatic influence from the Dissection Album.
It’s the same artist who made both covers, and they were released less than 2 months apart. I wouldn’t say it takes any influence one way or another, Necrolord was simply popular in the scene as an artist. Many many bands used him for their covers.
I'm surprised Sam has not heard or is familiar with Beherit. Very atmospheric. The only other album missing is Impaled Nazarene Tol Cormpt Norz Norz Norz. Other Scandinavian bands exist and are influential other than the Norwegians.
Sam nails the Venom summary on the head. It may be difficult for those who are younger to wrap their heads around the importance of Venom's Black Metal LP but it is unquestionably the cornerstone of the genre. As a zine editor, tape trader, etc.. in the early 80's I can assure you that the bands I was corresponding with and interviewing at the time (Slayer, Bathory, Hellhammer, Exodus, Metallica, Crowley, Nasty Savage, you name it) - they ALL derived inspiration for what they did from Venom's first two albums.
In several previous episodes, the "proto" band that started the movement has been put above the title, signifying that they spawned or influenced the movement but weren't necessarily part of it. That's where I would have put Venom. Leave them above the list and THEN put the top 10 essential BM albums underneath. It seems like a reasonable compromise, and then you could keep someone like Ulver or Satyricon (I wouldn't necessarily put Enslaved on there, much as I love them, because their early BM stuff wasn't as influential as their 2000s-era prog albums).
Absolutely clueless guest with no knowledge on the subject whatsoever.
Christopher K. so much yes! Worst guest they ever had imo!
Well indeed his band sounds like death rather than black metal
Beherit rules !!! 👏👊👍
Beherit rules!!!!!
I get that this guest has been playing music and has been involved with metal for 20+ years, but he doesn't seem so well versed with this subject. Maybe he's just not so great at elaborating on his thoughts, but it comes across like he's unfamiliar with this genre, save the more popular bands.
Goat Hammer He's a drummer !
Live TV is harder than it looks, especially your first time. And black metal is the hardest!
BANGER True enough on that point. No rehearsal, no script, no net.
Black metal doesn't have to be hard if you do some research. I understand there are varying factors at play here and I didn't really grill the guy, but I don't believe I was off base with my observations. Just so I know for future reference, is there a basic outline you guys try and work through, do you guys have talking points or just wing it?
We have a script outline but alot gets decided/changed on the fly depending on what's going on in the chat. We like to say this is a threeway conversation between Sam, the guest and the audience.
The guest Jason has little respect for the true origins of the black metal genre that influenced and largely created the bands he would later love in the '90s. It all traces back to Venom! Martin Ain himself said Hellhammer started out imitating Venom which led to Celtic Frost. Quorthon followed Venom around from city to city when they came to Scandinavia as he was a huge die hard fan of Venom who were a giant influence on Bathory. Dead from Mayhem had a famous quote that roughly said all black metal is here because of the fathers Venom as he put it. Plenty of early pics of Euronymous wearing Venom tshirts. In my view whether you love Venom's early music or not black metal traces it's evolutionary roots directly from them. Even listen to the sound at the start of the song "Black Metal" it sounds much like the early Bathory and Scandinvian bm guitar sound.
oilerdiehard So true. That chainsaw guitar sound started with Venom.
gp365y Dude, it's not a "chainsaw guitar sound" it's a chainsaw cutting into a door bolt.
Early Death SS sounded more "black metal" than Venom. The 1979 version of Murder Angels is a perfect example.
exactk'lyfor image and mood
I would have personally looked into other bands in the scene that were hugely influential under the radar. Bands like Samael with Ceremony of Opposites and Rotting Christ with Thy Mighty Contract, maybe Enslaved's Frost too.
I'm watching along and wondering ...are they really not going to even mention Samael ? Ceremony of Opposites is a top ten BM album of all time. Samael are criminally overlooked.
This really should've been two lists: 80's with Poison, Morbid, and Samael & 90's with all the second wave bands.
this dude doesnt look to excited to be here talking about black metal lol
Well he just seems a bit uneasy, maybe he was having a bad day or not comfortable in front of a camera.
They should have been sitting for the interview. Standing is prone to awkwardness because it’s uncomfortable so people shift around.
Adam Fine I don’t know why - I am normally straight. But when I listen to black metal I feel the strong urge to finger a big muscular black man in his ass and then smell my fingers. How do I cope with this fantasy? I don’t know what to do.
Neckbeards and beanies never look too excited about anything . How do you spell hipster? He's a Hot topic guy if they have Hot topics in Canada that is. I wish you would have guests that know about the music instead of choosing someone because of their geographic location . Canadian pride does not make for a good show. This joker's never even heard of Beherit that's insulting , and downright disrespectful to the black metal community. Funny the other guest that really sucked wasn't stuck up asshole on the power metal episode which ironically his name was also Jason. He was also equally ignorant . A glam hair metal dude , and a hipster . Both equally ignorant of the musical genres they supposedly represent
@@wenndingofoster5680 lame. What a lameass pretentious comment.
So many millions of fundamentalists do not recognize early Venom and Mercyful fate albums as BM classics - why? Oh, because they have melodies and hard rock gimmicks and the whole old bag of tricks. SO FUCKING WHAT? Black Metal is not only about chainsaw guitars and sepulchral Halloween vokillz. It's about ambience and spirit, and in that sense, Venom and MFate MADE IT . So, albums like the Venom Trilogy and MFate's Melissa and "..Oath" are BLACK METAL CLASSICS. They paved the way... and I even fear that I am now (at 53) getting a little bit tired of NBM, especially after knowing from the words of people WHO WERE there in the day, that it was basically a can of bees... of course I also cherish the memories of Bathory's early tetralogy and Hellhammer's scarce discographic legacy. Why do I think this, you may ask... - well just watch this Lock Horns video. Any way I was 18 in 1981, that best explains my opinion. Lock Horns UP !
jc costa da silva So fucking true! Can't believe so many kids here trying to rewrite history. I have a feeling many here trying to discredit Venom's legacy weren't even born when those first two albums came out. Venom started the image, Venom started the lyrics, Venom created the name,Venom started the chainsaw fuzz guitar, the fake names derived from demonology, and above all the ATTITUDE! Love live Venom and Mercyful Fate!
Come on.
Samaels debut lp, and their 1988 7"
?
Worship Him, what a wicked album 👌
Mercyful Fate, Celtic Frost/Hellhammer, Possessed, Venom, Bathory were all huge influences on Black Metal so I believe they all deserve a place on this list! this all helped the great black metal bands to come like Darkthrone, Mayhem, Burzum, Emperor, Immortal, Gorgoroth, those are what I consider great 2nd wave Black Metal bands.
The entire list in general is excellent because all these bands were brutal black metal and were original!
I'd like to say thanks for another great video Sam and company. To me, the feeling and atmosphere of black metal is exemplified by Bathory, and that sound of another world that the darkness, sorrow and "the journey into the void" is the hallmark of what became black metal as we know it. Many elements came together to allow black metal to exist. Mercyful Fate, Sarcafago, Hellhammer, Celtic Frost, Motorhead, GBH, Amibex, Discharge, Venom, Bathory, and many more are essential to the formation of that signature sound. Are any of those bands black metal? Depends on how YOU feel, and YOUR experience while partaking of this artform. But there seems to be a dividing line at the Norwegian bands and that's when the genre ceses to be super a influential mix of many things and become a solid cohesive genre that stands on it's own.
Thank u Sam for the amazing work that you have been putting up for almost so long. I have always appreciated your work and your channel. I have always wanted to be a part of the debates u host but unfortunately i have discovered your channel a little late. Hope to be a part of the other future events... Much love from India brother\m/
Also, maybe even before Sodom, a band called Holy Moses (which most of you probably don't know) Put out a demo called Black Metal Masters in 1980, and Satan's Angel in 1982. The music is darker than Venom, almost sounding like Deathcrush or early Darkthrone. The vocals, oh the vocals. The vocals actually sound like they are out of Live in Leipzig, or 2nd wave Black Metal!
Yeah man. They actually did a cover of the song "Black Metal" with Cronos as well.
I'd consider "early" black metal to be the first wave. What are all those 2nd wave bands doing there?
Neckbeard in the beanie never even heard of beherit or what is he doing on the show ? Oh I forgot he's Canadian
Blood of Christ ? Sounds Christian
Long Live BEHERIT
@@wenndingofoster5680 Nah, Glory of Christ sounds christian, lol
@@Thesortvokter neckbeard in a beanie looking so Black Metal
Venom defined black metal. The Norwegians just 'redefined' it for themselves. Plus black metal in the 80's was defined by it's satanic lyrical content and not necessarily it's sound. Thus bands like Mercyful Fate and Possessed were described as black metal bands back in the day.
3-digit intellects always save the day...
Obviously someone who knows their stuff.Same with the first Sepultura,Sodom,Slayer,and Destruction albums.
Lyrical content alone isn't enough, so I exclude Fate in that, but certainly Venom defined it.
Finally someone who know what black metal was (is). Black metal is a subject matter (the praise of satan as a deity) not a musical style of metal.
@Mezzy Mez Who cares?
Pure Holocaust totally needs to be there! That album is top ten early black metal material all day long. An absolute classic! Pummelling, melodic, raw and quintessentially Norwegian black metal \,,/
👍❤💪
How the fuck does Hellhammer not get mentioned!?!?!?!?!?
i know this is 6 years old, but it's cause Hellhammer never released an album, only some demos and an EP. they're only talking about albums here
despite the guest adding almost nothing substantial to this segment, this is still one of my favorites recently. thanks for doing these. I need all of those magnets, you should look into having them licensed and sell them through banger, because I would love a full black metal magnet covered fridge.
Thanks Raymond. And yeah, it's a licensing issue we can't sell band logos. But Banger's merch/shoppe is getting a relaunch soon and maybe we'll make Lock Horn magnets. As a consolation prize. :-)
Why would anything from the 90's be considered "Early" black metal. That's ridiculous. The list should have had bands like Venom, Hellhammer/Celtic Frost, Slayer (Show No Mercy), Bathory, Vulcano, Sarcofago, Mayhem, Sodom, Tormentor, Bulldozer, Morbid, Mefisto, Sabbat, Necrodeath and such bands.
wiidisc now we’re talkin’
dont forget the early usa cannibail
Definitely agree! Sarcofago’s INRI is the most extreme and fast BM album of all time...
those are just inspirations to the Early, yes I said Early, black metal bands but that doesn't make it Early Black Metal, it's only black metal now because we know they influenced the bands like Darkthrone etc
What the younger members of the metal community might not be aware of is that the term Black Metal had a different meaning in the 80's. It only referred to a band that had lyrics mainly focused on satanism / anti-xtianity. Venom coined the term but Bathory defined the sound.
It was all a fake. None of them thought satan was real .
@@MRSludgedude Well, since there's absolutely no evidence of any such entities ever existing I'd say that was a smart move on their part.
@@kenwheeler3637 seek them
Nobody wants to talk about Hellhammer but everyone wants to talk about Mayhem.
This being despite the fact that three members of Mayhem are named after Hellhammer songs (Messiah, Maniac and Euronymous) and another named Hellhammer! Which just goes to show how fucking clueless most black metal fans are.
Millie Burton Well said! Unfortunately, most black metal "fans" are fucking pretentious hipsters who know next to nothing about metal.
Hellhammer was mentioned by Sam in the debate and beforehand in chat we spoke about it a bit, comments were just not enough to be read. And if you imply that Hellhammer is more important to black metal in general than Mayhem, you're delusional.
Er nope. I'm not implying anything, I'm flat out saying it. There is no more important band to extreme metal than Hellhammer period other than Bathory (maybe) Just because Mayhem added a few things that got copied by all of the other Norwgian sheep doesn't take away from the fact black metal had been defined long before they discovered tremolo picking and blast beats.
Oh and by the way. Ulver are the only truly great creative force to come out of the Norwegian scene and Bergtatt was the blueprint for so many modern bands, to leave them off was a bit silly.
Ah so you just don't know many bands from Norway and you are also flat out lying. Interesting.
Under A Funeral Moon ???
The Darkthrone trilogy is fucking amazing.
I'd like to make a connection between your Lock Horns video about NWOBHM where you mentionned Witchfynde and this one: can we consider Withfynde as a precursor in terms of imagery? The artwork of the Give 'Em Hell album looks so evil and black metal to me! And it only came out in 1980!
Also angel witch was a big influence on early black metal,baphomet ,extermination day,angel of death,flight 19 were extreme song for that period(all of them were written in 1978) and the debut album is full of ocult stuff.
I think the cornflakes reference talking about Burzum went over Sam's head...
Movies are mostly stupid, but it is Sam's career to document Metal, so you'd think he'd be obligated to see it.
It would appear that Sam likes his cornflakes...SOFT
"So I wasn't really into black metal until this dude showed me the basics, but here are my opinions on the top 10!"
I suppose you were Into black metal before you heard it?
I think the fact that he didnt put Sepultura's Morbid Visions is just not right
Interesting!
Bestial Devastation as well. In my mind very early Sepultura is definitely early black metal.
Thats not black metal you fucking moron
So according to the comments kids these days think Venom isn't black metal HAHAHAHA
Pretentious hipsters usually say that shit.
This definitely seems to be an age issue. Any metalhead in their 40s knows how significant and mindfucking Venom, Hellhammer/Celtic Frost, Sarcofago, and Sodom were in redefining what metal was back then, especially if you were coming off Maiden and Priest in the 80s. This dude Jason and the most of the chat seem too young to have experienced any real shift or evolution firsthand.
D. McG I'm 26 and I'm on the side on history on that one and agree with you guys. Venom should be the legend and they shouldn't be erased because some newer generations don't understand the fucking immense impact they had back in the early 80's. They were the pioneers, deal with it.
Right. I often make this comparison: Chuck and DEATH are credited as being the first "official" Death Metal band, but it was POSSESSED that coined the term in '85. So, do you leave Possessed out of the DM equation, or include them in the mix? Same with VENOM and BM.
Venom isn't black metal though
The first sound of black metal was created with hellhammer (fav. Satanic rites) and bathory. My personal favorites from the first wave are bathory, tormentor and samael!
Sam I am totally grateful for what you do man, you keep the metal flag flying and that's what matters in the end. I watch all your shows and while I might disagree with some viewpoints, I respect you for being a huge metal fan. All I ask is please leave political viewpoints out, that shit does not matter, its all about the music, good metal is good metal period!
It seems the audio way off-sync with the video whenever I want to watch it. And it's the same for a few other of the Lock Horns videos.
Sodom's "In the Sign of Evil" and "Obsessed by Cruelty" have WAY more in common with Venom, Bathory, and Hellhammer than any releases by Kreator and Destruction, who sound relatively much more like Slayer, Exodus, and Metallica, so I strongly disagree on that one.
Actaully early Kreator and Destruction have something in common with them as well in fact they all recorded their records at Caet Studios Berlin, Germany same studio Hellhammer/early Celtic Frost used. It was all part of the same deal.
Love Metal like everyone here. Every time i watch a video here though i seem to love it more. Great work Banger. Keep it up!
Great episode. Love this series. The more content the better from Sam and Banger, we need this shit to keep going.
Have to agree with many on here, not sure Venom is the BM jump-off, but Welcome To Hell and Black Metal freaked the fuck out of a 12 year old me in early 80's (in a really fucking awesome way!). Still, Bathory s/t and The Return seemed to me like the 1st albums where the "sound of black metal" cultivated over the next 30 years actually took form. Frost - love them, Venom - love them, Fate - loved them all, but a genre is defined by most importantly a "sound". Those bands influenced the sound, but BM as it came to be was just something different.
Could of benefited from a definition of the word "early" i.e. years we should be looking at. A younger person than myself might say "screw Bathory, fucking Enthroned or Taake!" and they wouldn't be wrong, just coming from a different place time wise.
Maybe Essential Early should've been set at '84 to '94 or something?
"Early" is individually dictated by someone's introduction point.
Love what you guys are up to, thanks.
fucking destuction speed and death and black all in one
Video starts at 0:45
Thanks!!
I'd really like to see you guys have a modern black metal episode. Black Metal has come a long way since then and anything outside of the 90's hasn't really been discussed on the show. Leviathan, Blut Aus Nord, Deathspell Omega, Wolves in the Throne Room (can't remember if this made the Blackgaze tree or not), Watain, tons of bands that could be added to the tree.
We'll get there!
Awesome! Love the show, always looking forward to the next one!
Man, why the hell is Dark Medieval Times by Satyricon not on there? That's disappointing, it is one of my favorite bm albums of all time. It wasn't even mentioned.
Yeah. Taakeslottet is probably my favourite BM song of all times.
I'm really surprised no one brought up that Transilvanian Hunger and Filosofem being what directly influenced the start of DSBM.
Because nobody cares about DSBM
Venom and Hellhammer are on top of the list of early blackmetal.No debate needed. It is what it is.
Mayhem members have acknowledged that they learned they raw sound from bands in Colombia such as Typhon, Inquisition, Masacre, Parabellum, Nebiros..etc
they forgot VON
c'mon guy, get the guests a seat next time, it was so awkward seeing him standing up like that haha
Burzum Aske , Darkthrone A Blaze In the Northern Sky , Immortal Pure Holocaust , Mayhem De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas , Venom Black Metal , Hellhammer Apocalyptic Raids , Bathory the Return
Dissection and Sacramentums First one are my favorites but Black metal at all has so much gems like kvist, taake, vinterland, or the early abigor couldnt decide which are the best, i love all the classic albums the same in their own way
Mayhem 'De Mysteriis' is essential
Id say the legend is Venom's Welcome to Hell or Black Metal for sure..
I would include KAT albums, a heavy metal band with a lot of black metal elements, the lyrics, from time to time almost deep shrieks, I would rather say it's a polish version of Venom, but the band is influencial for Polish bands such as Vader, Behemoth and many others.
Xela Hollow Agreed but id switch the word 'legend' with Godfather
you fucking joking right? Slayer is no way in any form death metal, no matter how much twist the definition of the genre or reach. They definitely inspired and helped pave TOWARD death metal but were NEVER death metal themselves. They are firmly planted in the trash family. I cant tell if you were just fucking around; sarcasm is hard to detect in text.
Only clueless people who think that second wave of black metal was the beginning of the genre would disagree
This is the most sensible sentence written on this debate...well said.
Neckbeard in a beanie doesn't even know about Beherit . great guest choice SAM
The Immortal guys look like they had a Black Metal checklist to check off and have notorized before that photoshoot/cover you showed of them.
i really enjoy this channel. there's a lot of knowledge and diversity. i'm 19, very passionate about music and from England. the first metal i even heard of was from the new wave of British heavy metal, typically :P like Deep Purple. i have really began to admire the genre that is black metal though, because thankfully i befriended some awesome metalheads. it is quite incredible how many genres there really are in metal.
my top 10 black metal bands that i like the most are:
Venom
Bathory
Mayhem
Burzum
Darkthrone
Hellhammer
Behemoth
Anaal Nathrakh
Emperor
Imperial Triumphant (this band genuinely fucking scares me)
there are others that i enjoy like Celtic Frost, Taake, Gorgoroth, Watain, Agalloch, Immortal, Satyricon, Marduk, Sunn O))), Katharsis, Korgonthurus & Carach Angren. and i have many more black metal bands to listen to! if anyone sees this comment and would like to recommend me something to listen to, please do respond :)
also, people need to stop being mean about the guest in this episode. he must have been nervous as this was his first time.
Sooooo when it comes to the Ulver issue, it DEFINITELY should've been up there. You guys need to think of Bergtatt, Kveldssanger, and Nattens Madrigal almost as one...mainly because it was meant to be a trilogy. Each of those album styles are now widely used in modern day black metal..If that's not 100% influential on the genre, then I don't know what is.
Respect your opinion, but definitely beg to differ on that. Bergtatt came out in '95, In The Nightside... '94, Filosofem '96. They were right at the heart of the second wave, and definitely integral to the genre.
This is about Early Black Metal like it or not would be bands like Bathory,Venom,Hellhammer,Sarcofago,and Mercyful Fate. Also the first Sepultura, Sodom,Destruction,Slayer,Possessed albums were, regardless of thrash/death metal sounding thsa is where Black Metal started.Also no one will mention them but Onslaught's "Power from Hell' and Exorcist's "Nightmare Theater"I would consider "early Black Metal albums.The bands from the early 90's are not the early/first wave of Black Metal.Bands like Darkthrone,Mayhem,Immortal were obviously influenced by these early Black Metal albums/bands.
edward jones Nightmare Theater was such an odd record. At times, like early Bathory, but a song like Black Mass was so different, very campy, cheesy classic/speed.
How could they leave off Slayer? Any body remember Infernal Majesty's album None Shall Defy?
You guys forgot these:
Sabbat
Master's Hammer
Samael
Graveland
Marduk
Impaled Nazarene
Mortuary Drape
Rotting Christ
Mystifier
Samael in particular
Why is there no Marduk?
Ahriman 616 More dick?
What do you do with the magnets when a show is done? Is there a frig in the Banger bar that is covered in metal magnets? @banger
Yes. :-)
BATHORY- Under The Sign Of The Black Mark is the 1st black metal album proper. nuff said.
Hahaha of course mate and it's fukin' awesome! I just feel that the sound on Black Mark is closer to what most regard as black metal today.
The Return is my favorite Bathory album.
I’m so happy the first band this guy said was DISSECTION 👌🏻🤘🏻 thank god
Great Black Metal albums; there is a lot of bands and records for a top ten, but in general you took a good choices. I just pick Eld from enslaved and Shadowthrone from Satyricon to add! fucking killer channel ImI
You should research about Parabellum and all the Ultrametal scene in Colombia and its relation with Euronymous and the early norwegian Black Metal scene. That will give you a whole new perspective about the birth of Black Metal.
Mayhem - Death Crush is a sick Early Black Metal Album \,,/
I really need to stop missing out on these shows!!!!! would have loved to have been involved in the Industrial show, My fav genre of Metal
I feel like the term "early" is far too vague. A lot of clarity would have been had if you set a definite parameter like only pre 94/3/2. You could have a top ten list for black metal 94 alone that would be a debate indeed. On another note, hell yes for the death/doom.
Definitely.
In the Woods " Heart of the Ages" is one hidden gem of an album.
👍
To all (New Wave) Black Metal Preschoolers : True, Black Metal was not the first Black Metal album, it was Welcome To Hell.
As well, Venom created all extreme music including Death Metal/Thrash Metal & Rule All !!!!
New Wave Of Black Metal Kids Are Sacrificial Lambs.
This made me smile. Absolutely true!
YES!
I love how hellhammer ended up in the board.
People mention all these 1st wave bands, but not VULCANO? Their LIVE! album is essential and captures the true essence of black metal.
People who refer to Mercyful Fate as just "traditional heavy metal" really annoy me. Do you not hear the thrashy riffing and drumming when compared to their contemporaries of the early 80s?! Contemporaries, meaning Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath... They definitely DID have more in common with Motörhead and Venom than THOSE bands. The main difference (than the two bands I just mentioned) was that Mercyful Fate had more melody in their musical equation. Of course, these are the bands I'm mentioning because this is pre-thrash; before the likes of Metallica and Slayer, etc. arrived on the scene. King Diamond's vocal acrobatics weren't akin to the bands that came before them either. His falsetto could rival that of Rob Halford but his growls could rival that of Cronos!! Mercyful Fate gets lumped in with regular metal far too often but they were so much more than that! I feel like I'm one of the few people who just gets lost in their music when I listen to them and I just hear the heaviness and atmosphere that pulls me in every time! I feel like there are a lot of people that don't pay much attention when they listen to music. I listen to it and FEEL it. It's harder to categorize them due to their myriad of styles, but they aren't just "traditional metal"... They're so much more than that. Anyway, I just really felt the need to address this since people tend to downplay them a lot, especially when considering the timeline that they arrived onto the scene.
I'm still bewildered that they had to add Burzum to that list
If we're considering the definition of "albums" as a compilation of songs written by a single artist, I think the Witching Metal demo by Sodom is the first Black Metal record (even though it is technically a demo). It came out in 1982, before Hellhammer and Bathory. It sounds 100 times more true black metal than Venom
Kudos. Black Metal is a tough one. I didn't agree with a lot of what was said and bands that were "unknown" to the host and guest but whatever, much like the death doom episode this is obviously not a genre these dudes have studied deeply. It could also be said that BM is an incredibly vast and multifaceted genre, this is a huge task to take on. There could be an entire season of shows debating Black Metal. So, good job for giving it a go.
I'd enjoy an episode focused on USBM.
Thanks, Noah. Of all the metal genres, the Black Metal episodes are the most challenging. Not because we're not fans, or there aren't Bangers who are super into it, but because the audience is, shall we say, incredibly opinionated. Not everyone has the guts to go on live TV and debate this stuff!
BANGER it's rad that it's live!! I bet it's waaaay scarier than it looks! But it looks fun too. I only just stumbled upon your show, haven't googled you guys or anything, but I'm wondering if these are presented as a podcast anywhere? Watching is cool but it would also be awesome if I could listen in my car or at work.
Keep it up though, I really enjoy the show! Thanks for your hard work and dedication!
So far these are just a live stream show that is archived on our UA-cam channel. As for podcasts, Banger has always been about making films so not sure that's in our near future but you never know. Thanks for the feedback.
BANGER thank you and yours. keeping things interesting. I'll definitely be exploring more videos from the channel and sharing them too.
What about Gorgoroth's Under The Sign of Hell?
Mercyful Fate's first 3 studio recordings are the gold standard. Dissection's First two studio recordings are right up there with them. From a lifer.
Mercyful Fate was a prog metal band . Other than King diamond image his makeup specifically , and the lyrics , had more to do musically with tech death and power metal
Mercyful Fate totally belongs on this list man. Between King's corpsepaint, and the lyrical content...yeah it needs to be on here. Id put Dont Break the Oath.
I agree that Live at Leipzig is the Mayhem album to put up.
Proto along with venom.
Dimmu Borgir - For All tid 1994 ?
jilemnice occultist is a black diamond....totally overlooked ...i ordered it and drawing down the moon out of the back of metal maniacs...masters hammer are far and away overlooked genius
Lock Horns is a hell of a show and Sam is always perfect, but please choose your guests wisely. this dude barely says the same adjectives for each album and doesn't have a clue about black metal :(
Literally, how do you not know about Beherit? I was cringing the whole time.
First of all it was not Venom's Black Metal who inspired the genre, it was Welcome To Hell a year earlier. Many actual Black Metal musicians from that time remember that album as something really evil and worth listening to. Second, as Venom, Bathory, Hellhammer and Mercyful Fate are widely considered the main pioneers of the 1st Wave there are other bands who also played this sort of fast heavily distorted and evil music, for example Sodom (Germany), Parabellum and Reencarnación (Colombia), Sepultura, Vulcano, Mystifier and Sarcófago (Brazil), Bulldozer and Mortuary Drape (Italy), Blasphemy (Canada), Von (USA), Tormentor (Hungary), Samael (Switzerland), Master's Hammer (Czech Republic), Pentagram (Chile) and many others.
if we are talking about essential albums and not just bands then I think Panzer Division Marduk should for sure be up there. That album changed a lot of things in Black Metal...it was faster than ANY BM that I know of that had previously come out. How could this not be up there? Also Not adding Satyricon - Nemesis Devina is insane ... Everyone knows those riffs, they are iconic. Remember we aren't talking just bands here..we are talking about THE ESSENTIAL ALBUMS!
I have a question is Mercyful Fate and celtic Frost Black Metal or heavy metal for Mercyful Fate and thrash for celtic frost?
Venom is no way hard rock. I don't think Venom sounds like Kiss, Van Halen , Rush and Def Leppard. they would be closer to heavy Metal.
Mark Santucci Mercyful Fate (traditional heavy metal)
Celtic Frost (death metal, with aspects of doom, black and thrash. Experimental)
Venom (original black metal. Norway and Sweden are irrelevant as they came later!)
Along with brazilian Sarcófago there was some bands from Medellín Colombia, specially Parabellum and Rencarnación who plays a rude anti-technical extreme metal in the mid eighties.
Agree with the Nattens Madrigals comments........absolutely
insane black metal album regardless of what year it was released!!! Wow!!!
Probably my favorite second wave black metal record
Neckbeard in a beanie can't wait to get home and crank up some Black veil brides and some Slipknot. Which I'm sure he knows a lot more about those types of music than he does black metal. Which maybe he's heard of
I think in order to do this properly you would have to divide the first wave and Norwegian black metal.