My biggest issue with how Ironwood was handled is that at NO POINT was there an attempt to appeal to his better nature. Winter, who essentially sees him as a father figure, never even tries to get him to listen to reason. She just declares him an enemy and starts fighting him. Nobody mentions his Semblance, which Winter and the Ace Ops should know about, and suggest that that might be a reason for his actions. There’s never an attempt to save him, so what kind of fucking “heroes” are we dealing with here? These are not the actions of people we should be cheering on
They don’t treat his fall as the tragedy it’s meant to be he’s just treated as evil mustached bad guy 100. Hell the only one who seems saddened by how things turned out is James himself (his crying before he fights Winter). In my opinion they could’ve had him go out like any of Noble Team from Halo Reach (either version of Noble Six, Emile, or Jorge specifically), self sacrifice all in the name of keeping people safe, or even Grifter from “Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox” where he dies in a last stand but still manages to go out like a badass. Or if they wanted to work the tragedy angle have Qrow go through with killing him but play as a legitimately sad moment: have Qrow approach the situation like Optimus Prime after Megatron dies in the first “Transformers” where he claims “You left me no choice Brother” or like Daryl from the “Walking Dead” as he mercy kills Dale while saying “Sorry Brother”.
@@crimson1million Perhaps, but it was far more subtle. This is a gurl power show at its core, after all. So it is to be expected. But more importantly, it didn't force cringy and ridiculous writing like it did in V7 and V8. Even in V9.
"james's semblence is mettle" Everyone: "I recognize that the council has made a decision, but given that it's a stupid-ass decision, I've elected to ignore it"
@@jacksimpson8529 That's a good idea, we even know it could work in canon because of Hazel's Semblance. It's also nice to tie it in with more then just Aura more like a traditional magic system using willpower like in the Dresden files.
@@silverscorpio24 I mean it was pretty clearly invented in the gap between seasons. - Jason Rose, IW's VA, didn't even know about it until a fan asked him at a Q+A. - There are no visual or audio indicators of it being active. - Nobody in-universe discusses it as a potential motivator for IW's behaviour, not even subordinates like Winter/the Aces or his Ozluminati buddies who've known this man for potentially *decades* at this point.
Fun fact: Yang NEVER mentions that she got the arm from Ironwood in the show. No reference, nothing. Not even a THANK YOU for a state of the art custom made robotic arm calibrated to her specifically so that she can control it mentally like it was her own arm again. Oh and ALSO, he even had the framework of Ember Celica BUILT INTO IT, just as another cherry on top of the trust he placed in her. He had to have spent a frankly ludicrous amount of money on both building it and getting it securely to Vale post-CCT fall, just because he recognized how good of an ally Yang is and did all this to ensure she was back at 100% fighting strength. And how does Yang repay him? Lies, zero gratitude, and straight up betrayal on multiple occasions.
How was he unworthy? He was open with them and helped them out and even took their advice, and they went behind his back while lying to him. They did everything wrong
You know what makes the scene of them admitting they stole the ship hurt me more was because James giggled when they admitted it. You could see before winter started talking he looked like a dad that giggles when they're kid does something bad but is hilarious. The fact that he found it funny rather than staying serious hurts my heart more with what they did to him
they kept telling us how paranoid he is and then when he learns that a group of teenagers who never finished school managed to hijack his airship and infiltrate his kingdom during closed borders, he chuckles??? Like it's amusing to him instead of terrifying him that Salem could've already done the same
Crwby’s attempt to have the audience turn against Ironwood has severely backfired cause I know that I now feel bad for him and prefer him over RWBY even more
I keep forgetting the White Fang were ever in the show with how easily they were dealt with and swept away, and while their methods were incorrect and there’s a bigger bad to be fought it was Blake’s entire mission at one point to stop the prejudice against Faunus.
@@thomasraines1396 Yeah I don't think there's much saving the white fang. They died at volume 5 and buried when Adam lifeless corpse hit the waterfall.
I still find the funny part with White Fang (or at least in Season 4 onward) is that they had a decent villain assassin (Illia) have a murder boner for the "so-proclaimed" White Fang betrayer Blake. And then give Illia an actual love boner after nearly killing Blake in the next season or so. Like wow. I know I was born early 2000s, but i feel like a boomer if this is what love is like now a days. Nearly kill your crush and then profess you had feeling for them a month later
Switching between between Atlas troops fighting and dying in literal trenches and Team RWBY sitting in a mansion drinking tea is a fast way to turn an audience against the "heroes".
yeah, seeing our "heroes" fighting side by side with the soldiers of atlas would have been better. that despite being hunted by atlas, being branded as "criminals" they chose to defend atlas. to try and succeed where they failed at beacon.
Blake: “his heart seems to be in the right place, but that doesn’t mean we trust him” Also Blake: give information to a bitch they don’t even know well and could be just like Adam, a person who pretends to do the right thing but only did it to reach his own goals.
Robyn was openly committing act of terrorism against Atlas by raiding their supply lines. So it’s more like: Blake: I quit the White Fang because I realized terrorism was bad and wanted to changes for the better. Also Blake: I betrayed the law and gave state secrets to a know terrorist, turning back into the terrorist I supposedly regretted of having once been. Old habits die hard.
Wasn't this during a time where they knew for a fact that Salem had a spy in the city? So for all they knew, they just gave Salem's pawn key information on their plans.
@@Rand0mPeon don't forget Yang also criminal at some point, her mother was way better person than little miss attitude bitch. She destroyed Junior's club, his men, twin malachite, sexual assaulted him. Killed adam for her cat girl, never told truth about Raven being Spring Maiden, worked with Jaune's criminal plan to steal ariship, turn back on ironwood. She has done so many shit.
@@Rand0mPeon She's been like that from the start. In Volume 1 she left the White Fang because they were going too far and hurting innocent people and she didn't even deny Weiss's accusation that they wanted to kill all humans, instead saying they were just very misguided as an excuse. And yet she somehow wants to think that stealing Dust shipments like they have no doubt done plenty of times before should be too low for them to sink to.
What infuriates me is that the girls, or ANY of the heroes, could have easily halted ironwoods decent into madness by just offering alternatives to his decisions which also ties into the whole "Tell him LITERALLY ANYTHING" issue. Ironwoods worried about massive grimm attacks: Silver eyes is literally the most efficient grimm killer in existance. Ironwood doesn't think he can save everybody in mantle in time: hey Weiss, person who's been groomed to take over the SDC for who knows how long, tell the man about all the extra hundreds of ships your family has at the ready at any time. Ironwood wants to use the staff to jet into space and leave mantle to die: suggest using the staff for literally anything else because the staff can do virtually anything and atlas won't fall immediately after taking it out because convenient gravity dust. Instead of offering any type of argument against his ideas, they just spout generic and useless platitudes at him and expect the paranoid man to just get it and fall in line with them. Its not like he wasnt receptive to ideas, if anything he was literally BEGGING for guidance. They just decided to fuck him over for no reason then get mad at him for losing it.
Yeah that's the thing if they talked to him first or try devise a plan instead of immediately villainizing him they could have come up with a plan that pleases both party.
If Ruby hadn't jumped to tell Jaune about about the staff plan and let Jaune talk, they would have come up with a compromise: We keep evacuating people, you go rescue Oscar.
And the thing is, there are plenty of solutions. Even if we ignore any of the solutions we can come up with on our own ("Okay, we use the staff to land Atlas next to Mantle. Then we use it to create a shield like the one Atlas has that encompasses both of them while we continue evacuating everyone. Once the city is clear, we use the staff to send Atlas into the sky again, and bring it back down near one of the other Kingdoms so we can regroup and begin rallying the rest of Remnant"), there's something very important that they all seem to conveniently forget: Ozpin. Ozpin is still very much present. Even if they're angry at him because he's lied to them, this man has been holding the line against Salem for *millennia* now. We also know that he's still keeping an eye out and will help if they need it, because when Oscar didn't know what to do during the helicopter crash, Ozpin stepped in to save him. Oz is also more familiar with Salem and the Relics than anyone else on Remnant. Furthermore, James knows the truth about what happened with Ozpin now, so you can't use the excuse of being worried about how he might react to learning the truth. Instead of sitting here shrieking about how wrong he is and offering no solutions of your own besides "fight and hope for the best," offer this idea: We find Oscar, suck our petty grudges the fuck up, and just ask Ozpin for help, because we're in deep and he's been willing to come back and help in situations like this before.
Did the Writers just forget how extensive Ironwoods prosthetics are? Like he’s got that shit all over his body and he still cared about humanity why does losing his other arm suddenly mean he “lost humanity”?
My best guess is they were going down the "Cybernetics Eat your Soul" trope but forgot to show him losing humanity. Or maybe he just loved his other arm that much.
You want to know something even more messed up. Ironwood, the real Ironwood character we knew for most of the show, reminds me a lot of my father. Similar sounding names, tall imposing yet kind men, both are leaders, both are deeply loving to their close circles, incredibly giving, neurodivergent (hyper focused), great with technology, respect for the military, and they even look similar. So you could imagine how I immediately became attached to Ironwood when I first saw him in the second season. I was basically seeing my father in the show and I was loving it! I only grew more attached to him the more I saw him, especially as he grew to look more and more like my father. I even showed my father his scenes and he was happy to watch those with me even if he didn’t watch the show. Then I heard they made Ironwood into a villain. I saw what they did to his character and I saw how he was killed off. I cried really hard when I saw those scenes and I was hurt and angry. I’m still hurt and angry at the show and I never showed RWBY to my father ever again. It was basically like watching a bunch of writers using stupid teenage girls to gleefully kill my dad. Ironwood of course isn’t my dad but the similarities are too close for comfort for me, they made me extremely uncomfortable.
It's really telling that Ironwood was the only one who showed any form of regret at having to fight former allies, from the tear he sheds before the he fights Winter in the vault, to the tired sigh of relief when he thinks Penny has come without a fight. Even when he is supposed to be this irredeemable "Genocide General", he remains the most sympathetic character in the volume. That's not even getting into him being the only one to actually take an active role in resisting the currently ongoing invasion by the witch of darkness. Saving countless civilian lives of those on Atlas, including an unknown ammount of refugees from Mantle mind you. But sure the "Heroes" are the one we are to unambiguously root for. But where was Ruby Rose the entire volume? The world wonders.
@@flowersandcheesecake1710 fucking girlboss, eh? ditching their city just to tear down others in their pursuit of virtue signaling. i can't wait to see how the fuck the writers are gonna make the story come to an end if werner doesn't just outright cancel it mid-production.
@@darthkai3621 if this were a better written story, the girls would be out kicking butt and taking names! Not drinking tea. They wasted so much by just having them wait to be attacked.
having an anti-militarism message in a setting where the civilians are under constant threat of a monster invasion, monsters that cannot be reasoned with, is... kinda strange ngl
And all the while they bash the military, they're propping up the Huntsman system. Which for all the fanfare of being devoted to protecting humanity, is in practice really a glorified mercenary market. It's acknowledged in-story how villages have been destroyed because they couldn't afford Huntsmen.
Kerry "And then of course Ironwood now losing another part of his humanity." Ironwood heroically sacrificing a arm in background. I dont think you understand symbolism very well.
Honestly, that isn't the case. He heroically sacrificed his arm in the prior volume, showing his devotion. Here he cut off his sitll living, if wounded, limb frmo his body cause it was 'in the way'.
So him being willing to sacrifice an limb to save people is supposed to show a lost of humanity? By that measure, he should be as short sighted and childish as the heroes....oh, was that the point?
@@mosesmm5473 Are you saying sacrificing an arm to make sure that the bad guy doesn't get away and do any more damage is supposed to be shortsighted? Because that seems pretty logical to me.
Also winter's line of "you sacrificed nothing" makes no fucking sense when this man sacrificed it all along with himself and if you wanted to be poetic, his humanity
What does Winter even know about sacrifice anyway? And even worse, if Ironwood had sacrificed everyone else she’d be an accomplice because she was like his second in command 🤡🤡🤡
What’s worse is that Winter didn’t sacrifice anything during this volume making the writing for that line stupid completely unself-aware on what’s happening and Winter herself an as*hole
Let’s me guess this straight… Ironwood despite having a complex personality, understandable motivation, has helped the protagonists several times and has a clear desire to save people isn’t given a redemption arc because he disagrees with the main crew on there plans. BUT Emerald, a character who has worked with the main villain, fought against and tried to kill the main protagonists, helped orchestrate the Fall of Beacon and even help cause Penny’s first death is given a redemption arc because a farm boy told her to stop being evil… That isn’t even bullshit, that’s horseshit!
It's truly disgusting. It's an insult to the viewer's intelligence, one of the poorest displays of a moral compass I've seen in fiction, further fuel for the, "If she's relatively hot, she's forgiven while men get crucified for anything" vibe this show has been pushing since Adam's character assassination in V3 and it's just so stupid. Like, at the very least, Yang and Jaune should've said "Hell no." Emerald is part of why Yang lost an arm and Jaune lost Pyrrha, because that green-haried tapeworm was simping for discount FMA Lust. And the fact that James, who has overlooked crimes, helped where he could, trusted them with sensitive information, provided anything they could ask and BEGGED, with tears in his eyes as that bitch Winter put the final knife in his back, to stop this madness, is supposed to be this "Genocide General", but all Emerald, "I burned your school and helped kill your friends" has to do is "Switch sides" and she's forgiven? There is no way to make Team RWBY even seem tolerable by this point, let alone heroic, because this is a vile display indeed.
@@randomcenturion7264 At this point, I somewhat want Salem to succeed in her goals just so Team RWBY gets some sorta of comeuppance for the destruction they played a part in.
@@kedharswaminathan7571 Given how the "Plot" is written to pretty much glorify that quartet of terrorists for everything they do, I doubt they'll ever get their just desserts.
That’s what I’m saying I’ve always like the concept of Emerald joining the good guys, but we’re 8 years into the show. In my opinion the execution of this redemption arc was rushed, and overall OK. But in a volume where ironwood should been redeemed for doing what his right for him, a general, other than a group of inexperienced teen, it just feels wrong, very wrong.
@@OnlyOSpoonFull pffft what good guys? THEIR ARE NONE!! Emerald just decided to join an even more evil side she got bored of salem and decided hey team rwby are doing more shit to destroy atlas I'll join them
You know what's really dismal about the writing? Despite Ironwood not arresting Ruby's crew for stealing an Atlas airship, giving Yang a free prosthetic, defending Weiss at the party, giving Ruby's crew a place to stay, huntsmen licenses and training by an elite crew of hunstmen so that they can get stronger, they still do not trust him. Meanwhile, Emerald comes up to the group and Ruby lets her join her crew. Despite the fact that the last time they saw each other was at the attack at Haven. Despite using her semblance to cause Pyrrha to kill Penny, playing a role in the fall of Beacon, and working with the big bad of the series. But I guess it's okay because she is a cute anime girl.
@@sprite9897 Other than the fact that they knew something was up (Especially Yang the victim here), how does that make it any better? They knew she worked with Cinder... There is no other explanation other than she is a cute girl.
@@QuarianGuy you would think Yang would comment on that, but sadly her being ostracized for “breaking” Mercury’s leg didn’t go anywhere and basically stopped being a thing as soon as it started.
>Nobody knew Emerald tricked Yang >Also Emerald tricked Ironwood by the same semblance and at least half of the team saw it I'm calling stupid for sake of plot card.
Emerald was with Cinder that should be enough to see that she a bad guy so to me they shouldn't let her be on their side so easily gotta please the male fanstay ,while female fanstay is being ignore , I thought male gaze is a bad thing ?
I know right? Like, it takes weeks, maybe even months for nations to even DECIDE to go to war, longer to mobilize and then they need to establish a base of operation. So not only did Professor Big Boobs not teach them how to fight Grimm properly (seriously, the army does most of the work), no one even taught them proper logistics, political acumen or, Fuck it, basic common sense.
CRWBY writes RWBY with fixed plot points to achieve. This is why all the good guys share the same opinions, why Ironwood acts the way he does, why the portal plan is so poorly conceived. The show is not written to explore a world and the lives of its characters, it's written to advance a plot they already decided at the start. It's a series of bullet points to accomplish, while people who are legitimately passionate and mindful about the world and characters - the artists, animators and other unsung heroes in the staff - have to shut up and crank it out, knowing they are powerless to change things, so they just do the best they can. So many things like Mantle and Atlas' great environments and Neo's expressive mannerisms, those are all because someone in CRWBY legitimately cared about how the world of Remnant works and how its characters move and think, and went out of their way to add it when the script doesn't go into detail.
We need more people who were willing to show those moments of expression and world building than whatever the showrunners and writers are plopping out.
Every time I hear the "They're following Mounty's plot" argument, they don't get that Mounty didn't write every single thing and dialogue, but bullet points. You can see how often you have obvious "key moments", but either no build up or just "deal with it". It's like trying to understand a myth with just the results of events. They also feel the need to add tension between characters, because those are the sort of things that are often forgotten or put aside when you write over 9 seasons. Gang, we have two clear objectives, we can do both things as we are numerous and have worked on our own before. Ooooor we could argue and make it some sort of "Civil War".
THe problem is that they don't even know what endgoal they're going towards. You don't have this many blatant retcons of previous details less than a season or even less than an episode later, completely rewriting, omitting, or just abandoning important elements if you actually have a clear plan. Like I can totally believe the show HAD a plan, but whatever it was ended up stuffed in a dumpster several seasons ago when the show decided Yang cares more about her deadbeat mother than her beloved sister she supposedly cares about.
Thats literally what happened salem and cinder didn't destroy atlas team rwby did it all while having the nerve to claim they were in the right for everything
They really “killed” the actual, literally wants to destroy the world, main villain of the series halfway through the volume just to make way for villain Ironwood.
@@dlo397 And then, ugh, Cinder was the final villain after him. It felt nice watching her eyes fill with fear when Salem FINALLY arrived in front of her as she tried to come up with a BS excuse as to why the last wish was used up.
Honestly, Ironwood's fall is just another example of rwby's biggest problem: Setting things up without proper payoff. Seriously, how many things in this show become terrible because they simply decide to rush through everything? The White Fang, Yang's PTSD, Adam's death, Bumblebee being cannon, pretty much everything with oscar, etc. Its like RT just wants to get to end result without realizing that its the Journey that makes these things compelling. You need to take your time with these subplots and sometimes, that's just not possible if you try to release a volume every year. Also, damn, your last speech at the end got to me. Its like expressing how much you wish a drug addict could come clean. But no matter how much you plead, it just falls on dead ears
Oh... Bumblebee is officially proper cannon now? How... Quaint. Nevermind the actual time, dedication, loyalty amd faith and abuse Sun gave and endured with Blake, and actual chemistry. Although I guess, the toxics being together is realistic, so... Realism, I guess.
Let's add a few more to that list shall we: Jaune grieving Dust, all of it Yang meeting Raven Blake and Sun spend 2 volumes together and they were set up as a couple since volume 1 Weiss's prejudice against faunus Why does Hazel exist? Tyrians "but you interest me." Qrow who supposedly stayed away due to his semblence just stays with the heroes now. Grimm, are they even a threat? I could go on.
@@andreasfiltenborg4952 Qrow as a character is ruined because of his semblance: He and Raven were both sent to Beacon to learn how to kill Huntsmen, with Raven it makes things even worse because we know Qrow’s semblance doesn’t affect him, it affects people around him, so sending them both would just increase their odds of getting screwed over in some fashion, His semblance seems to be the reason as to why drinks so heavily (again tragedy) however the show constantly and unapologetically makes fun of the fact he’s a drunk, Qrow was somehow able to be a teacher at Signal despite his semblance and the fact he’s “always drunk” (according to Glynda), The tribe of bandits and killers who thrive on the “strong survive” somehow hasn’t killed him, due to the fact he literally brings bad luck everywhere he goes and could’ve easily been attributed to all the bad luck that happened to them.
Ignorance and malice are not the same thing, but ignorance has a shelf life. It will expire, and when it does, it becomes negligence; continuing to rely on it will do harm. There is no innocence in that.
@@spenjak18 I mean yeah there probably was, V8 seems like damage control after they accidentally made Ironwood the most complex and likeable character in V7, like honestly they wanted him to be an unlikeable villain and failed miserably so they went as hamfisted as possible and had him shoot an innocent civilian at the beginning of V8 and it was all down hill from there, RWBY at this point is the writer's and VA's power trip at this point so they can't have the main cast being overshadowed, like I'm pretty sure Blake's VA recently tried to cancel one of the writers for the new RWBY anime by making someone else's abuse situation all about herself while dragging the poor writer's ex-wife's history out into the open when she just wanted to put it behind her, these are the type of people behind RWBY now.
If Ironwood was put in chibi I'd imagine the gag would be he hyper focuses on something and then people would laugh he can't move or do anything besides that one thing. Like "haha you've been at that jar of pickles for 3 days!"
“Team RWBY may have not liked Ironwood’s plan, but at least he HAD a plan.” A 100% that. I remember watching the final episodes of Volume 7 and thinking exactly that. Both Ruby and Ironwood are trying to save Mantle and Atlas, but Ironwood is the only one of the two with a plan. Team RWBY only comes up with one towards the end of Volume 8.
Honestly, it's similar to the issue I had in Naruto with the conflict between the titular character and Pain. Pain's plan might not have been amazing - he knew that it wouldn't bring permanent peace and relied on the inevitable rise of violence for peace to be reasserted - but he actually *had* a plan with defined goals and methods of achieving them. Naruto's plan was basically "Believe in me, I'll figure it out." Granted, at least in that case it was more of a philosophical conflict. It wasn't about an immediate danger that they were fighting to stop, but rather about their different approaches to bringing peace to the world. So there's a bit more leeway to be had with Naruto's lack of a specific course of action. RWBY doesn't even have that. They're literally facing down an immediate, physical danger that is currently approaching them, and their entire plan is "fight and hope for the best." It's amazing how Ruby has devolved from a character who wants to be a hero but recognizes that the world isn't a fairy tale in V1 to someone blindly clinging to the idea that they can make the world work like a fairy tale in V7/8.
Team rwbys plan was literally: Step 1: Break into the vault of atlas that, just like the vault of haven has a convineant hole at the bottom. Step 2: Steal the staff Step 3: Say "Please golden magic stick, make our problems go away"
I do not understand how the writers don't realise how offencive that whole "Ironwood losing his limbs is a metafor for losing his humanity" thing really is. Remember how when the show was first created and Monty gave them "anime homework?" Remember how Fullmetal Alchemist was on that list? You know, the show wich features two disabled young boys as the protagonists? Two kids who lost an arm, a leg and an entire body? A story where one of the main themes is being human. A show which had a whole arc where one of the main characters was starting to doubt his humanity due to being a suit of armor now (okay, granted, that arc was kind of stupid because it hinged on Al believing the words of a crazy serial killer)? The arc that ended with them literally saying - at multible times, none the less - that Al was still human, despite his circumstance? How do you go through that show and not learn that being disabled, or born diferent, does not make you evil or disposable? Was FMA too hard to for them understand? This is a genuine question. I am truly baffled.
I think they were thinking of it like Blade Runner, where people would willingly cut off limbs to replace them with cybernetics (which I think would actually fit this idea of "more robotic parts represents loss of humanity"). But they didn't consider how the events of the show drastically change that message. Ironwood DIDN'T chose to just lop off an arm to replace it with a robotic one in an attempt to "become stronger" or something, but they didn't think about that I suppose.
Ironwood wanted to save Atlas, it’s entire population, nearly half of Mantle’s population that was already evacuated, a Maiden, TWO RELICS, and indirectly save all of Remnent. Salem was making a bee-line directly to HIM, not Mantle. He was saving millions. Team RWBY wanted to stay and fight a villain they KNOW cannot be killed with even an entire army. They wanted to risk everyone’s safety with the off-chance they could save everyone. Ironwood wanted to guarantee the safety of the world rather then risk everything for a battle he JUST LEARNED he COULD NOT WIN. But yeah, that makes him evil 🙄 Everyone who died in the Battle of Atlas? That’s “our heroes” fault
I can no longer consider them heroes anymore they have blood on their hands wherever team rwby go bodies lie in their wake who needs salem when u can have team rwby be better villians then salem could dream of
Too bad that the RWBY community still considers them heroes @@nyhtfall1969, and the writers as well… and whoever is in charge of RWBY or Rooster Teeth Even though they’re somehow more evil than what is considered evil Ricther Belmont
@@James-oj6ru rwby fandom is the worst fandom I've ever seen i hate the rwby fandom I don't go near that fandom with a 10ft pole a bunch of crayon eaters
@@James-oj6ru- heroes doesn’t mean they don’t make mistakes. I can admit that they had faults but people want blindly say Ironwood had the best plans but his escape plans was terrible because not only does it means that Mantle dies but it means that Salem has free range over Remnant and because of the embargo Atlas the only kingdom with the most fire power but because Ironwood fear he wants to wait to be fully prepared even if the world get set burning.
The transition of Ironwoods character just comes across as the writers going "oh crap, we made him too complex and morally gray, quick we have to make him a Villain now. "
Pretty much, they couldn’t handle the thought that people would side against the main girls in a morally grey conflict so they made the other side jump off the slope. That is bad writing.
@@jonathanjuarez5544 I agree. It's annoying that the main characters must always be in the right. They never face the consequences of their actions and they never learn from their mistakes.
Is ridiculous and stupid they nerf other characters to make team Rw-by look good , and yet the writer's couldn't make them insteating at all , in vol 7 to 8 here what we know about them so far Ruby is a gaslighting sociopath Weiss has anti brother complex Blake is a damsal in distress weakling cat princess Yang has a bad nasty attitude who cares about getting cat princess booty then helping out her sister or uncle nothing about Team Rw-by makes me want to watch them , but we have to like them because reasons , they suppose to be the main characters and yet none of them are good main characters, this a big fail from the writers .
@@loiiysailor1177 The characters aren't that likable, I agree. I would have had Ruby use her love of weapons more, like upgrading Jaune's weapon herself instead of some random blacksmith. She should have struggled with the responsibilities of being a team leader and learning the harsh reality of the world they lived in. No matter how hard they try, they cannot save everybody. Weiss should've dealt with her racist behavior more. Her story arc should have been understanding the discrimination that Faunus face, understanding why the White Fang exist and what they hope to accomplish. She should have also tried to be more controlling, to try and take control of the team not accepting Ruby as her leader. That would have created conflict. Black should have struggled with whether or not violence is the answer or if she should try a more peaceful method. Adam would only be a mentor figure to her, somebody she looked up to and was inspired by until she saw how far he was willing to go for his cause. She should also have some issues trusting other people, especially Weiss. Yang would have been a protective and understanding older sister. She would have wanted adventure and to use a grimm as an outlet for her anger. She'd be a hotheaded person and have a carefree attitude. Her story arc would have been finding her mother and finding out why she left. That's how I would have written the characters, to give them flaws and their own struggles. It's just my opinion though.
@@LonelyStar04 I actually read a fanfic that had Ruby help improve Yang, Blake and Weiss’s weapons, she’s just constantly tinkering with stuff and improving them, it was pretty nice. Also the whole idea that Ruby needs to wise up to how the world works is odd, in her first conversation with Blake she acknowledges that life isn’t like the fairytales so it was strange how they made her a wide eyed idealist who thought saving everyone was a viable option.
I feel like RWBY suffers from using the "Designated Hero/Villain" tropes too much. The good guys are only the good guys because the show says they are and the bad guys are either a botched attempt at a nuanced villain or fucking Team Rocket (or RCKT if you prefer.) I feel like they can make really good morally gray characters, but only when they don't realize that's what they're making. Hazel was a really interesting antagonist, working for Salem yet still being an overall nice dude who you could actually feel for. But the writers still wanted to make him someone for the 'heroes' to fight so they put a half assed backstory in there that doesn't make any sense and just screwed him over. Emerald had the potential to be a neutral party who leaves Salem and fucks off to do her own thing, yet the creators wanted to make her a hero so they swept a lot of what she did under the rug (she helped with the fall of beacon, she killed Penny, and she indirectly led to Pyhrra's death but the group still accepts her anyway?!) The few times they want to make morally gray characters they're still inside this black and white mentality and it leads to the show constantly saying that they're gray when the characters never really doing anything to deserve that title (looking at you Ozpin/Ozma.)
The audience had long since expected Emerald to switch sides, mostly because they actually showed her backstory BEFORE she became the willing trigger-man for their version of the Columbine Shooting (and as such, every death, including Pyrrha's, is indirectly on her head). They just did what was expected, and it had the added bonus of further erasing Pyrrha's existence (they've REALLY grown to hate her because of the valid criticism in their plan to kill her the way they did).
I feel the pain. RIP Adam. The most interesting character with reasons you could understand before he was turned into a stalker ex-boyfriend for no reason.
@@itzzbowserjr Don't let the positive fans hear you say you liked Adam's character or that he was very blatantly written differently to be hated before he died
@@johannesseyfried7933 I loved his motivation. His people had been oppressed and mistreated for years, and he was willing to do whatever it took for them to be seen as equals. Whether it was by fear or respect, he didn’t care. It’s no secret the Faunus were an allegory for racism/the African American community, and Adam essentially was modeled after Malcom X. He was interesting to watch because he wasn’t like the rest of the villains in this show. He didn’t even want the White Fang to be a part of the school attack in season 3, but after Cinder threatened them with her maiden powers he knew too many Faunus would die trying to fight. Then his character completely changed in season 4 for no reason. It’s sad how him and Ironwood both faced the same end result.
@@itzzbowserjr Adam was another character that could have been so good, but no, RT had to go and butcher his character Just look at his character short
The way the writing team narratively butchered what was basically the only morally complex individual left on the roster in volume 8 was utterly pathetic and infuriating to watch unfold. Great video.
The fact that Ironwood being morally complex and not downright cartoonishly evil in Vol 7 _by accident_ makes V8 both funny and infuriating too. Like Vol 8 Ironwood is what the writers were going for. That was "damage control."
@@tama3162 yea I lost all respect for the show after I read that lol, how do you ACCIDENTALLY write a fantastic character, go “whoops didn’t fit in how I expected,” and then subsequently destroy any perceived subtlety or complexity.
@@johnpaulcross424 Its like Pilot boy, Miles and Kerry were so frustrated fans liked him more than the characters they spent time and effort on instead of a throw away character they gave VERY little thought to. Added to the fact he was originally written to be gay but were told making a gay character with negative character traits and then dying would be going to far, it was okay for morally complex straight pilot boy to die but not morally complex gay pilot boy. Better for gay pilot boy never to live than to die I guess.
I am absolutely flabbergasted that the person who came up with the plan to save Atlas was Whitley fucking Schnee. He had like, 10% of the total information the good guys had and while they were walking around his house, wondering what to do and sending him to his room, he came up with a near perfect solution. And then Ironwood ruined it because we can't have Whitley save the day when the heroes have done nothing of consequence.
Honestly Whitley and Willow did more good than most of the main cast, which sadly in this show isn't too hard. wall of text warning, but this is just off the top of my head what Whitley and Willow did in the short moments they were on screen this volume - Willow provided the evidence of Jacques' election cheating AND the fact Watts was still alive (v7) - Whitley called Klein when an injured nora was brought to the manor. weiss didn't even consider the known family doctor as a person how could help her injured friend (tea and coffee was too important) also weiss saying how May should care about her Atlesian family when weiss's whole story is a broken home and she just pointed a weapon in her brothers face and told him to go to his room - Whitley carried penny while blake just opened and held the door for the other 3 (green goo on him not her) - Whitley came up with the plan to rescue the people from the crater while weiss just complained that her rich family had advantages over the poor (specifically the back-up generator) - Whitley AS WELL was apparently the only one who could use his dads computer, despite wiess also being raised to take over the company so should know how to control the ships/ drones (in the story its been less than 4 months since she lost her heiress title) - Willow used her cameras to warn wiess, the now licensed huntswoman, the hound was about to ambush her - Willow also tracked the hound through the manor before it could get to Whitley, where weiss gave up the chase the second the hound stopped attacking her - Willow was also the one to save Whitley in the study where they had to run two whole corridors before wiess put an ice wall up to defend the three of them...she apparently was just standing there waiting for them (weiss also just kind of stayed there with the hound as the scene cuts away as she starts to summon but cuts back and the hound is still untouched on the other side of the wall and she unsummons her knight) - Whitley and willow are the only ones ready to do anything to the hound in the foyer, blake and weiss slowly move penny and ruby just stands there when it comes back through the window - hound is literally attacking three professional huntswomen (rewatching the clip ruby even curls in on herself as if too scared to move) and yet the alcoholic socialite and her son drop a statue on it without a second thought
@@johannesseyfried7933Considering he killed it as well I think it would be better if Whitley summoned it. Just as a "screw you" to Weiss for her being insufferable these past volumes.
Right? Whitley was the damn MVP for the "heroes" in V8. It was a strange moment when I realized that all of his smugness was apparently 100% deserved, because he currently comes off as the most competent person in Atlas and Mantle. Possibly Remnant.
You know what baffles me . No member of team rwby has ever faught a member of team wtch 1 on 1 let alone won against them. There are no dynamics between the Heroes and villains because they have barely interacted . Even Hazel the villain they have had the most interaction with faught Nora , not the main characters and now ironwood defeated watts . When we were first introduced to these villains , I had seen pretty blatant parallels with our main cast Yang vs Hazel( brute force fighters , one doesn't feel pain , the other gets stronger as the fight goes on, both older siblings who love their sisters) Blake vs Tyrian ( Faunas, murderer, giving Faunas a bad name and everything Blake hated about Adam but even more) Wiess vs Watts( from Atlas, both prideful , egotistical and jealous of being outshone by their coworkers Ruby getting leadership over wiess Pietro getting funding over watts) Ruby vs Cinder ( Girls with special powers being the student of an immortal with a personal grudge) Somehow the writing was all there but they still managed to fuck it up. Now half of them are dead and I will literally feel nothing for these other fights if they happen because they has been no buildup 😑
I remember years ago seeing a break down of the parallels between Rwby and Salem's court back when they were first introduced. I won't go into it here but the amount was staggering and could have been a great thematic set up for the fights to come. And all of it was wasted
Dear God just when you think rt can't drop the ball any further you just have to look a little bit and you'll find it. How do they keep doing this?????
Two things: I find it ironic that the heroes bring so much chaos wherever they go, especially when things were seemingly looking up with Ironwood at the helm. My second thought was that, it would have been cool if V8 immediately got rid of the civilian problem and Atlas just became a battlefield for Ironwood, Ruby and Co, and the Atlesian Military against Salem, her cohort and the whale/grimm
Good point! Even though Ironwood was paranoid, he did have the Maiden and the Relic secure. And he had a workable plan to reunit the world by establishing global comms again. Untill RWBY showed up. He was aready on the edge. R/W/BY practically shoved him off.
@@DocMicrowave I love how they co-opted his plan and then make him the bad guy. Like yeah, James is paranoid, but who wouldn't be in his situation, but the girls just were so extra and dumb sometimes. 😩
Simeon Washington Lol. They not only co-opted his plan, they didn't even execute it well. End result, Penny dead. Maiden power out in the open, far and away, and it's new host publically Identified. BOTH relics in Salem's possession. She didn't even have to work for them. Took a nap, woke up, here ya go. Oh, and of course the cherry on top, Atlas and Mantle destroyed. NO one, NO Kingdom came to aid Atlas despite Ruby's half hearted call for help after finally getting the tower up and her message out. (Hmm, I wonder if telling the world 'Ironwood bad', not to be trusted might have had anything to do with that.) Had to make sure the world, as well as remind viewers, that Ironwood is Evil. It is practically a crime how many times Ironwood was depicted trying to drive home that narrative. That Sith backlighting on a black background while he was giving the "heroes" an ultimatum was thoroughly laughable. The only thing he was missing was a cloak and hood. Trying too much to prove a point you think?
It would've actually been good just to have them come to grips with their lies, apologize, and work together. Ozpin could come out and apologize to everyone, including Ironwood, the heroes could apologize for lying and mistrusting Ironwood, and Ironwood would start thinking rationally now that has time to think right now with only one issue to address, and it could be a good point for coming together to battle a massive threat. It would've been great.
@@bluej4life183 Sounds nice! But sorry, that scenario wouldn't chime with the narritive CRWBY wanted to push. You would be implying that the girls did not do the right thing. That they were........ dare I say....... Nefarious in their dealings with Ironwood. That they were somehow in error in how they handled things. Nah, R/W/BY did the right thing. Ironwood was the essence of EVIL they day he walked into Oz's office back in V2. He was never to be trusted. He was planning this debacle from day one. And the girls knew this. So they were correct in not trusting him. (If I understand correctly how some fans see this.) The kiddies are always right. Grownups just don't understand.
that comment about how Ironwood was made the villain is because he isn't a cute girl feels way to on the nose ngl. Like, we lost how many men this volume who were either bad or just there and yet Neo and Cinder got out scott free. Neo got out because she's a fan fave made on a whim and yet she got better treatment than Ironwood. Jaques died for NO reason. But the biggest indicator of why things sucked for Ironwood this volume? Emerald. Emerald, who has COUNTLESS crimes under her belt was forvigen in an episode. Her change was as fast as Ironwoods. TeamGOODGUY let Emerald into their team so damn fast. She caused the fall of beacon and the DEATH OF PENNY AND PYRRAH but she felt sad about it boohoo in an OFF-SCREEN scene that the protags would have absolutely 0 knoweldge on. This girl caused fatal casualties and an entire academy to FALL. Penny v1 would still be alive, if she didn't mind-psyche Pyrahh into thinking there was more blades. And although not directly involved in Pyrrahs death she was still part of the bad guy team. Emerald, within one episode was allowed to join the goodguys and be part of their take-down Ironwood plan to save the robot she helped murder. Because she is a cute, fan fave girl. Ironwood, using all of the notes you made on his good points in the vid... is now a bad guy because he said "Salem is on our door step, we literally do not have time to save absolutely everyone both here and below. We MUST save one" Team GOODGUY prevented Ironwood from saving at least half of the nation. Now both nations are gone and that Tech is now LOST forever. Not to mention the Schnee dust company which provided weapononised magic to the whole world. Watts died for NO reason this volume. He has been the main powerhouse on Team WTCH for 2 kingdom fallings. Without his hacking, Cinder never would have won in both Atlas and Beacon. It was his intelligence that got her as far as she did and how did she repay him? Locking him in a room and letting him burn to death... Hazel went out with a literal mind-switch too. He's always had a shit backstory but him turning on Salem so damn fast like he did was so dumb but he died for it so Emerald can enter team GOODGUY. Jaques was an asshole, and his end didn't even match his abuse. He was just blown up by Ironwood because... he was in eyeshot? Ironwoods semblence, they literally could have said was "damage null" where he flat out feels no damage so that he can get through fights... but THEY GAVE THAT SEMBLENCE TO FUCKING HAZEL who wasted it. Throughout RWBY we have been told that once Aura breaks the semblence goes too. Ironwood was knocked the fuckout by Winter and his semblence broke. When he woke up in that Jail cell his mind should have reverted to a somewhat "normal" thought process where he could reflect on his actions. But no, he woke up and his semblence was apparently still active INSTANTLY. The show attracted people by cool fights. Those fights died LONG ago but what should have improved through 6 extra volumes of this show was the storytelling and instead we get shit like volume 8 in which characters just do whatever the fuck the plot needs them to do in the most ham fisted way.
Honestly, I could argue Emerald was changed just because Cinder could be more dangerous without having to be chained down by lackeys who could act as some kind of moral chain. In Vacuo, you got Mercury who sees all this as some gig with a sweet payday and Tyrian, a lunatic that sees Salem as a goddess whose happiness is the only thing that matters more than satisfying his bloodlust. And with them out of the way, Salem and Cinder can go out and take over Remnant as discount Ozai and Azula.
It is a huge problem with this show. The writers act like these champions of progressivism but they still cling onto the idea that women are innocent and if men are abused it is funny or they deserved it. Weiss gets slapped by her father, it's taken very seriously. Sun gets slapped around by Blake and it's treated like a joke. Blake gets abused by Adam so she gets to get away with her own abusive behavior towards her friends. Adam was abused and branded by humans but he's not allowed to hold grudges against them or even defend himself. He gets turned into an abusive ex-boyfriend and killed off. Yang suffers from PTSD and the writer's take it so seriously. She gets nightmares, hallucinations, etc. She is paranoid that Blake won't come back. Her paranoia is portrayed sympathetically. She cries over Blake's absence and Weiss is there to comfort her. Ironwood also suffers from PTSD, but his paranoia is written off as him being evil and untrustworthy. He then gets unceremoniously killed off. Ruby lies and has no plan whatsoever to stop Salem, but everyone reassures her that she's trying to do the right thing. Ozpin also lies and has no plan on how to defeat Salem, but he gets abused by our "heroes" (in a child's body no less) and deemed an untrustworthy liar. Emerald and Ilia are the only villains to have a successful redemption arc. Hell, even Cinder had a backstory that got her some sympathy. But despite having one of the most depressing backstories and being just as young and naïve as Emerald, Mercury gets nothing. No character development, redemption arc, he just exists. It's ridiculous how egregious this is. I could go on and on.
Emerald switching sides in Volume 8 would be more convincing if like, she wasn't working with Cinder to try and kill Penny about 20 in-universe minutes before she did the side switching.
I think her redemption works for her on a personal end but everyone accepting it so easily was lame. Allowing her to be there but keeping her on a leash outside of maybe Oscar and maybe Ren believing and trusting in her would've been a lot better.
@@twiinsiink Even if Emeralds redemption was well handle it would still be fucked up because the side she's joining is basically responsible for getting Atlas and such destroyed so nothings really changed she's still evil and happy to cause destruction only difference is she's no longer moaning for Cinder senpai and is instead a deluded hypocrite much like team rwby.
I could generally get over a lot of the crap Crwby came up with for the show, but I’ll never forgive what they did to Ironwoods character and how they had him kill that one council member just as a quick way to dismiss any need to write an actual coherent way for him to go overboard. That kill was only there because they wanted the audience to have a “no doubt” excuse to hate Ironwood and fully take RWBYs side. No matter how in the wrong RWBY so obviously is🙄
If i wrote season 7, I would have had the girl's actually trust ironwood, tell him everything, have ironwood restore ozpins trust in the group. As all this success builds up his semblance starts to strengthen with his aura. he has these allies, his plan is working, his old friend is back, his aura is strengthening. Then i'd have him win 3 crucial fights and be the hero to both cities, then with all the failures salem is PISSED! so she comes. He kicks his mettle into overdrive. He's planning he's building his army, the whale comes, he AGAIN rachets up his semblance because he HAS to save the girls, he HAS to save ozpin they are his best friends. Now he charges into the war, going into war mode, without his knowledge his mettle keeps racheting up, he pushes himself past his "human" limits his mettle increasing all the while. He enters the whale with the girls, fighting off grimm fighting off baddies, fighting off every single obstacle. Then he grabs the girls and jumps out of the whale. Then he pushes through a grim armada. Now, finally given a moment to rest, he tries to de-escelate his mettle....but it won't. He doesn't want oz to worry, he doesn't want his new girls to try and "save" him instead of keep themselves safe he has lost ALL safety they are his ONE string to humanity. over the next few months his mettle increases but subtly, funding the army, building more forces, building new airships. The new spending pushes blackouts, he stresses his troops past their limits. In his final confrontation, Ozpin begs ironwood to use his semblance for what it was meant for. Speaking truth to authority, regardless if authority want's to hear it or not. In the very end mettle takes over and the final line of "hero ironwood is" "ozpin, you have always been my friend. A brother in arms, and a trusted confidant.... yet I cannot let hundreds of innocent people die because you have a grudge from centuries ago!" and like that mettle has taken over, he will not be reasoned with, and he will not change his mind. After ozpin finally beats ironwood, he walks over and de-activates his aura, and mettle FINALLY cools down. Ozpin pulls him up and says "and I will always be a brother in arms" then they move into season 8 to save both cities. on the talk ozpin will mention how he didn't know friends could be permanent, but ironwood showed him it could, the girls showed him the tides are changing, and finally ironwoods mettle showed him that a plan executed perfectly is better than no plan at all. So the moral of season 7, would be that despite your flaws, you can always be saved you can always be better, and you are never down and out. you can be the metal man with a human heart.
I don't think you were harsh at all. I thought everything you said was on point. As somebody who used to be a fan as well, your video essay perfectly summed up how I feel about this show and its writing. Don't feel bad for putting your thoughts out there. It was well organized and well done.
Absolutely agree! A critic needs to be honest and specific with their criticism, and harshness is not simply the a sense of sugar coating. For someone who actually was in support of the symbolism that the more Ironwood turned into a machine being equivalent for him losing his humanity, I was hit with a HUGE wave of guilt for not considering the prospect of ableism. That's a very significant feature to address and needed to be brought up for discussion. I'm certain that RT would never have intentionally targeted prosthetics for a negative connotation of symbolism, but it's there, and other writers need to know how to avoid this. For the sake of conversation, my decision would have been to further develop the relationship between Ironwood and our other amputee, Yang. Yang has been going through a significant downgrade from her prime years, but there could have easily been a comparison between the two where Yang is striving to reestablish her charms and passions, whereas Ironwood is more determined to strip himself of flesh for the sake of mechanical improvement. Becoming the Tin Man, so to speak. However, if the traits of the Tin Man is what Ironwood represents, we should be mindful of what he strived for; like how Leo was afflicted by cowardice, Ironwood is afflicted by a lack of heart. It baffles me that Yang, who's new arm was requested, delivered and paid for by Ironwood didn't lead to any form of connection between them, or how Yang's firey spirit didn't prove itself more of a contrast. It could have kept the 'More machine than flesh' symbolism without being truly ableist by having Yang stand up for her own humanity. Wasted potential to be honest.
As boring as it was, "The house volume" was a state of consistency, not wild mood and moral swings and flippant goals that are achieved without effort or planning
Sadly they still got enough zealots to keep going. As controversial as V8 has been, the impact of the controversy hasn't been as big as V5's, where it was big enough to make even the writers admit that they fucked up (only for them to pretend that they listened and improved). Even some zealots admitted V5 has been a fuckup (then again back then they weren't as stubborn either).
I'd like to take this moment to remind everyone that a lot of the Problems that happened in the show are directly team RWBY's fault. The Godzilla grim showing up? Their fault. The forces of good not trusting each other? Their fault. Salem getting the relics? Their fault. The deaths of the countless innocents civilians and Atlas Soldiers? Their fault. (Due to preventing Iornwoods plan without presenting one of their own.) Oh, and the deaths of countless more civilians that are going to happen because they sent them to a desert nation KNOWN for being wild and dangerous? Their fault. I'm certain I missed more than a few things, but I think I made my point.
Oh, what about the whole illegal disruption of train lines and supplies… which delayed and now tarnished the Amity tower plan and now they have to use the staff to fucking bolt of there? Or how they also broke Ironwood’s sanity and patiences, turning him… probably just briefly mad in volume 8 but… the writers probably made him permanently evil What about…. Causing public panic, unrest and general uneasiness with the whole Salem exist, that their forces is coming to kill them and humanity? Honestly? I rather trust Evil Richter Belmont to do the choices than these fuckers and he was under heavy influence to be extremely prideful, honor whoring and fight thirsty guy… he even admits that what use is the Shepard (the Belmont against Dracula) if the wolves are all gone (humanity being able to survive without them)
27:36 In regard to Yang, I think I recognize what they were doing with her character - because I fell into the same hole while developing my own characters. Essentially, they think that by having Yang act rude and abrasive, they're making her cool and badass; the strong, independent woman that stands up to authority and doesn't let anyone boss her around. The problem is that the 'authority' she's standing up to don't deserve her scorn. As you have pointed out, Qrow, Ozpin and Ironwood are all trying their best to be reasonable (or at least Ironwood was until the writer's made him snap). So, as a result, what should be Yang seeming cool just makes her come across as bratty and annoying. The only time this could have worked was when Yang started mouthing off to Salem; the actual villain. But by that point, Yang had spent so long mouthing off to the wrong people, that I personally was rooting for Salem to shut Yang up (which she did eventually do with her Grimm arms, thankfully). If we're going to have a rebel character who stands up to authority, we need to make sure that said authority deserves to get stood up to. A hero is only as good as their villain after all, and when the 'villain' is really just someone trying to do their job, it becomes very hard to see the 'hero' as very heroic.
Salem shutting Yang up made her more noble than Team RWBY for me XD Yang's so much better when she doesn't talk. She should learn from Neo's example. And you're very right. A big problem with "Edgy Rebels" in fiction these days is the authority they oppose just doesn't seem to warrant their petty scorn. It's less funny and more bratty.
I kind of see Yang as CRWBY poorly attempting to create a Buffy type of character. In Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the titular character is also a rebellious teenager who tends to mouth off to authorities. But the thing is, she has does it in different degrees depending on the authority and her relationships with them. Giles, who serves as her Watcher and mentor figure, is an authority figure. Her mother is an authority figure. Angel, while not authority figure in the same sense, has centuries of experience and is an expert on various subjects. She gives them crap sometimes, but it's pretty much always the kind of playful ribbing that you give a friend/family member. She rarely gives them a hard time in serious moments, and not only listens to their advice, but will even seek that advice out when she needs it. On the other hand, you have authority figures like the Watcher's Council. People who constantly try to control her and treat her like a pawn, rather than treating her as a person, and who seem to think they're the end-all, be-all authority on the supernatural world. When she comes into conflict with them, you can tell a clear difference between how she mouths off to them and how she takes jabs at Giles. Not just because they're a group with authority, but because they're an authority that has proven highly ineffective and disrespectful to her and her friends/allies. As she puts it later when she finally gets tired of their nonsense and lays out how she honestly needs them far less than they need her, "You're Watchers. Without a Slayer, you're pretty much just watching Masterpiece Theater." Buffy is a cocky, rebellious character who revels in mouthing off to authority, but she doesn't *blindly* do so. She has a great deal of respect for people and organizations in positions of authority when that authority is wielded responsibly and competently. That's where Yang's problem comes in: As you said, she just acts rude and abrasive to *any* kind of authority, no matter who they are, what they're doing, or what their relationships are, which makes her seem less "cool rebel fighting The Man" and more "clueless contrarian fighting whoever is there to fight with." TL;DR Version: Yang is that person who films themselves screaming like a banshee at a Starbucks barista about saying "Happy Holidays" while thinking that it makes them look cool and brave for standing up to the evil corporation that's waging a war on Christmas, when all it really does is make them seem like an asshole yelling at a barista that's just trying to get people their coffee.
It really says something when they even admitted through commentary in vol.7 that Ironwood being a complexed character was a complete accident only to be made worse the moment vol.8 starts. I especially hated every route they took to demonize him for the sake of validating team RWBY’s actions. The true kicker was despite Ruby’s constantly saying they’re all on the same side, she sure didn’t hesitate to denounce Ironwood on broadcast stating he couldn’t trusted even when they flat out lied to his face from the beginning.
Denouncing him seemed like a stupid thing to do. Ironwood wasn't the enemy, Salem was. It felt petty of them to try and turn the other kingdoms against him. Also, Ironwood is a general, I believe a part of the council. I can't imagine the kingdoms taking Ruby's side.
@@LonelyStar04 One of the many problems I had with Ruby's 'plan' was that she hinged on people believing on what she said. Like let's take a spot in a citizen's shoe: You don't know who this girl is and she's telling you all these fantastical tales.
They demonized him and invalidated his argument long before he shot Councillor Sleet. And they did it indirectly. How? Ironwood's whole reason for an IMMEDIATE evac to the heavens was because the Atlas army, Specialists, Navy and other forces were exhausted and depleted from the Mantle evacuation, which means that the Grimm would have even more of an advantage than they'd already have with their endlessly replenishing numbers. Ironwood advocated retreat to try and buy time to prepare their combat forces to better fight the Grimm. So what did CRWBY do? They had Salem wait around for about...a day, maybe two, before attacking. And I was just sitting there thinking why are you waiting, bitch? Just ZERG RUSH the damn place! Stop waiting and have at it! Shields bothering you? Have your whale vomit Grimm sludge onto it to break through, or just RAM the bloody shields for fuck's sake! Considering that Monstra is so tough that it's apparently invulnerable from the outside and was only brought down by a magical NUKE going off from INSIDE it, I'm fairly confident it could just *charge* through Atlas' shields with no real danger. But instead she just sits on her ass, giving the Atlas army a whole day to prepare, rest and rearm, thus retroactively invalidating IW's primary reason for leaving and making him look dumb for suggesting it. This is despite the fact that he had no way of knowing that Salem would make the dumb decision to wait that she made, and was instead thinking that she'd do the obvious and smart thing by Zerg rushing Atlas RIGHT when she showed up, while they were still weak and underprepared.
I really like this, especially as someone who used to have high hopes for the show. So far the only thing I really disagree with you on is how you said that the show handles a lot of difficult topics, and only because I don't think the show actually handles them at all. It invokes them, rarely says anything of value, and actively attempts to sweep them away as quickly as they're brought up. I don't think they're handled at all, and that's even more sad to me.
Agreed 100% and that’s been an issue since the earliest volumes, it was even hinted at in the trailers. Weiss’ trailer and the song she sings hints at the childhood abuse from her father. Blake’s is overt with her terrorist activities that she’s running away from. Yang’s subtly points out that she’s been abandoned by her mother, who she’s actively looking for. Then you get into the first 3 volumes. Weiss’ overt and ignorant prejudices (elitist, racist, perfectionist, ageist) whenever she clashes with Ruby and Blake for various reasons are the first difficult issues that are mostly brushed over. Even though she makes peace with Ruby, her ‘apologies’ come across as begrudging to me. She never clearly owns up to her part from when she waved Dust in Ruby’s face and it was accidentally detonated by Ruby’s sneeze. For someone who clearly has the highest proficiency with Dust usage among the team, she was just as reckless with it around others when SHE should’ve known better from the start. And I can’t recall if she ever outright apologized for calling Ruby a brat (several times in fact) when at times she was more immature than Ruby aka the youngest member of the team. She openly stated that having someone 2 years her junior as her team leader was an insult and that she deserved better. That obviously Ozpin made a mistake when making Ruby the team leader, as though she knew better than the headmaster did, in all her teenaged arrogance. Ridiculous. Weiss only changed her tune after Prof. Port called her out on it to her face. And though I appreciate that, it just felt like a spoiled brat correcting misbehavior. Sure, it displayed that she CAN be reasoned with and she isn’t so close-minded that she can’t handle criticism (unlike her dirtbag dad). But it would’ve been much more impactful if she matured enough on her own to realize how unfair she’s been to Ruby. Like if over a period of time constantly working with Ruby during team assignments she comes to realize how she’s acting similarly to toxic Jacques and that’s her ‘oh shit’ moment where she consciously starts to work on changing for the better. But there’s nothing like that, no real WORK to make things right. It’s just a single episode hand-wave and then moving on to the next topic. For the same reasons, her “I don’t care” line was so egregious to me because the hefty baggage between Blake and her was basically swept away, when BOTH of them needed group therapy to work past those same issues and work as a proper unit. The forgiveness on both ends wasn’t actively worked towards and the peace that came from “burying the hatchet” was totally unearned. No one just gets over deeply ingrained shitty mentality and bad habits that easily. There needs to be consistent and conscientious effort put into breaking out of those terrible molds that both Blake and Weiss started in to get to the level of teamwork that they achieved by volume 3. Don’t misunderstand, I love Weiss. She had one of the best development arcs in the first 3 volumes out of teams RWBY and JNPR (which really wasn’t saying much tbh). She could’ve been one of the most compelling characters too if they just kept at it, exploring serious world building topics through the microcosm of Weiss growing into her own person free of Jacques’ mental conditioning and interacting with her friends. She was the heiress of the largest corporation on the planet. Having her most negative traits properly and healthily addressed through her maturation into Nice Weiss (as she gets rightfully called out on her bad behaviors so she can understand not only why they’re wrong but also how to overcome them) would by proxy bring focus on the larger problems of Remnant like the SDC’s “questionable business practices” and discriminatory human supremacy over the oppressed Faunus and impoverished people. But that eventually took a backseat to other more ‘lucrative’ dramas and tropes. They turned her into a basic tsundere for the show. Then there’s Blake’s inability to face her demons and the consequences of her actions are at least somewhat considered in later volumes when she comes back from running away after Yang’s dismemberment, but even that is more or less swept under the rug given the poor execution. First, she practically implied that she worried Yang was exactly like Adam after her DQ from the tournament for ‘breaking’ Mercury’s leg rather than trusting that BOTH Yang and Weiss told Blake that Yang wasn’t cruel like that. She’d been partnered to Yang for MONTHS by then to know the differences between her and Adam. Yang even told her about being abandoned by her mother and Yang never seemed to be (understandably) angry over it, just sadly curious. Blake knows Weiss never holds back her own opinions (even when they’re wrong) so if Weiss thought Yang was actually guilty she would’ve been the first to throw Yang under the bus. So the fact that she didn’t should be an indication that Yang had a character witness that she wasn’t lying. So if she couldn’t trust Ruby’s belief in her big sister she could’ve trusted Weiss’ assessment. But she didn’t. And when shit hit the fan, she never really apologized for fearing and nearly giving up on her own partner (which is an early theme with her based on her trailer). Blake was all too willing to run away at the first sign of trouble. The train mission with Adam, the blow-up with Weiss, and worst of all is fleeing after Yang gets her dominant arm cut off trying to defend Blake (who didn’t do the same when roles were reversed earlier in the tournament). It’s even more damning because once she was found by her team shortly after running away from the Weiss argument, Weiss got Blake to promise that she would come to her TEAM when there’s a problem. Yet, when the most difficult thing the team has had to face up to that point happens, she’s in the wind running back home to her parents rather than keeping her word. And she does so knowing that the threat of Adam is still out there and ever-present but doesn’t bring that up to her parents until it practically kicked in their door. So all that so-called development of Blake at Beacon with her team was either a farce to begin with or wasted. Then it was glossed over later on after her predictable return to her team. Yang’s abandonment issues was clearly ignored in favor of inconsistent pacing and storytelling. She seeks out Raven, rather easily no less, not to fulfill her personal quest for answers (which was her main motivation for becoming a huntress in the first place, so is the main core of her character arc) but to hitch a ride on the Raven Express to reach Qrow, who’s with Ruby. And when Raven offers those answers, Yang tells her in no uncertain terms that she’s not having it, just get her to Ruby. So ignoring the fundamental drive of a character is not a problem? Lastly, there’s the fact that Jaune sneaks his way into a school to train kids how to fight and kill demons without any prior knowledge or experience to make him qualified to even be there. On one hand there’s the shitty vetting process to contend with that implies those who’re in charge of admissions are carelessly incompetent. And on the other is the sheer disregard for safety at play here. Glynda says that Jaune isn’t ready to be at Beacon despite what his ‘transcripts’ implies, suggesting she’s suspicious of his qualifications (or lack thereof). When she brings it up to Ozpin (during the life-threatening entry exam), he never bothered to respond. The man couldn’t have cared less that a boy with no clue what AURA even was at that point, was participating in a life-or-death test in a Grimm-infested forest. That’s child endangerment right there, and it’s a persistent theme throughout the show. Plus, Jaune’s total lack of preparedness could’ve gotten those he worked with killed if they weren’t actually capable of facing giant ass Grimm from the start. They let a liability just walk into a combat school with zero forethought to his and others’ safety despite being in charge of that very thing (for all kingdoms in fact). There’s no accountability for the adults (Ozpin especially) about that and it’s hardly ever hashed out even when they learn that Ozpin never admitted Salem’s immortality to them but let them all blindly volunteer to fight in his shadow war, Remnant’s cultural acceptance of glorifying the use of child-soldiers be damned. And while the list goes on, the common denominator here is that like you said: overall, again and again, serious subjects get outright overlooked and blatantly ignored. It’s no wonder why this show is so heavily criticized. If it’s meant to be taken seriously then it should face serious scrutiny. Sorry for the long-winded rant but this is one of the issues that ruined RWBY in my opinion and I had lots to say about it.
@@FiTzYsAsHoWsToPa Weiss’s conflicts and how they’re handled feels like something out of a CW show: brought up and over the course of (at most) few episodes dealt with never to be brought up again.
@@thomasraines1396 Exactly. They do things more for shock value than any real substance, even if it completely disregards things like a real fleshed out plot and actual character development. They’ll even retcon something in a way that totally contradicts what was done before then. 🤦🏾♀️
@@FiTzYsAsHoWsToPa yep, in Volume 7 Weiss apologizes for how her family has treated the Faunus like crap and her “complacency in it” as if she wasn’t actively a racist, even all the way back in Volume 2 they made it out to be her family’s problem not hers.
@@thomasraines1396 warning: another long rant incoming 😆 I agree with you that, bare minimum, she also needs to apologize for her own actions from earlier in the show. That would at least sort of address her bs from the beginning volumes and some minimal character growth for her. But of course RT doesn’t do even that. They just have Weiss seemingly pass ALL the blame onto her family, which when I think about it contradicts the sort of character they were angling for her to be based on the first 3 volumes. She outright said that her goal was to take control of the SDC from her father so she could turn it back into what it was like when her grandfather ran it. So it’s implied that she knew Jacques was ruining the company with how he ran things and her life goal was to fix it. That’s basically taking responsibility for problems she didn’t directly cause herself. This shows that she sees something wrong and wants to correct it, even when it’s currently beyond her control. But when the time comes to take accountability for her own wrongs, she basically passes the buck. Quite literally that’s RT contradicting their earlier work. Makes me wonder which is the real Weiss. Is it the hardworking misguided girl with a chip on her shoulder seeking to restore honor to her family’s name, prove there’s more to her than just her last name, and help to right the wrongs in the world? Or is it some Tsundere providing lip service to the audience and does no real work towards said life goals? RT has to stop showing characters being one way but then have them do complete 180s in a span of one volume. Now, I’m trying to be fair here. Weiss was taught to be a bigot by her father who’s the worst bigot of the show (in so many ways) and before going to Beacon he completely ran her entire life. Weiss was basically an extension of Jacques. At the start of the show, she’s such a dislikable person mainly because of his influence on her. He told her how she needed to act, what kind of people are ‘acceptable’ for her to be around, and what he expected of her performance at school. Jacques mentally conditioned Weiss to view the world HIS way. He was essentially her puppet master. But at the same time, she’s meant to be a rebel. Monty even said that the way she styles her hair is part of her rejecting Jacques’ standards for perfection. It’s not perfectly symmetrical. And her attending Beacon after defeating that armor was her chance to really break away from his control over her life, kinda as the first (of many) big ‘screw you’ to him. So basically she was technically already actively trying to change herself. And I get it that no one changes overnight (despite what RT would have people believe). That’s why her racism is so bad in the beginning. People need to see where she’s starting from in order to understand how she’s growing. But to start a character out as someone who is actually working on improving themselves (RT literally TELLS watchers this in the first 2 volumes) and then not even give any solid PROOF that she’s really changing or, worse, contradict it is the height of bad writing. It was a blink and you missed it face turn and that’s too much for my suspension of disbelief. RT can’t expect the audience to find her “I don’t care” line believable when earlier in that same episode she was openly racist against the Faunus and had a huge argument with an ex-White Fang Faunus. Tbh, it would’ve been more believable if Weiss went to Ozpin to get Blake thrown out of Beacon (based on her apparent racism) since in her mind the White Fang are scum that keep attacking her family. Or, if that didn’t work, tried to get herself transferred to a different team because being on a team with a secret Faunus is too much for her racism to deal with. At the very least, she should’ve been terrified of Blake once it came out that she was a former member of the terrorist organization, not deciding that after less than a day of looking for her Weiss is ok with it because Blake said she quit. Yet instead we’re given that “I don’t care” scene in volume 2 and the “I apologize for everyone else’s crap but not mine” bit in volume 7. Proof that RT doesn’t really care about the show’s subject matter or its characters beyond entertaining their customers. Where’s the actual effort in changing her racist mentality? It’s not like Weiss is allergic to constructive criticism, hard work, and consistent effort. That’s literally one of her main character traits (she puts the most work in on the team when it comes to studying). I was really looking forward to watching her mature similar to how Zuko did in AtLA. She definitely had the potential for it; sadly, it got wasted. But RT doesn’t care about these things. They just want to have people believe that life in a harsh world like Remnant is actually that simple and it’s easy to get over things. That it’s ok to think hard topics like racism and terrorism can be willed away if you ignore it enough. They gloss over the hard parts and expect a pass. 👎🏾 It’s why imo the most compelling characters (the ones that bring up these topics to begin with) in the show always either get the least amount of screen time (Pyrrha, Raven, etc.) or have their characterizations butchered (Ironwood, Weiss, etc.) in favor of pushing a trash narrative and really bad storytelling. It’s insulting to my intelligence to expect me accept that. If they didn’t really want to work on these subjects then they never should’ve been brought up in the first place. The series might’ve been better off that way because at least RT could’ve stuck with it being a kiddie show. 😩
He's effectively Adam 2.0. Rather than last minute changes behind the scenes post Monty's death was vastly different from how he was set up to how he was officially introduced, we just get to see the assassination real time.
As someone with autism, it feels really nice to hear you talk about how RWBY handled it's nerodivergent characters. I've always felt uncomfortable wih it since volume four and the characters ignoring Penny's death. I've never really felt confident enough to share my thoughts about, but seeing someone finally adress it makes me really happy. Thank you.
@@KritoSkywaker Not going to make what happen? The writers showing the team heart broken and how they deal with it? Or Ruby's or Jaune reaction? The story is going to be rushed. We'll have to see how much time the writers devote to showing this. I am guess not much. I also wonder if they will see her body on the island, or anyone else who fell for that matter. That may further complicate matters, feelings. Of course that might not happen either as the writers may come up with an excuse as to why they are the only ones on the island. Saves time and animation resources.
@@thomasraines1396 True, but they were all friends. Yang seemed to acknowledge Penny's loss back in 3x12. Of course, that was then, this is now. Yang being hurt may take up more of the team's attention. Correction. Take up more of Blake's attention actually. 'It's not like Ruby or Weiss had a relationship with Yang.' ;)
Team RWBY: complains about saving people during a grimm invasion Me: Ladies, that's literally your job! Team RWBY definitely suffers from perfect protagonist syndrome Edit: if there are any new writers in the audience who are insecure about their work, remember that four writers who work for a large and well to do company, with several other works under their belts, were unable to make a major character's turn to villainy convincing
@@darthkai3621 Exactly, it's so ironic. She says in the third episode of the show that she wants to be a huntress so she can be like the heroes from her old story books, which, side note, I always thought was a strange motivation, like something a child would say, it reminds me of when I was seven and told my parents I wanted to be a movie star because...I liked Disney movies
@@selena44842 I get it and I kinda find it endearing, until I realized she basically does nothing to achieve it, which gets her ass kicked in volume 5, and then in the past 3 volumes, she actively goes against her goals.
@@darthkai3621 True, after season 4 the characters seem to forget their motivations, ruby doesn't strive to become a better leader and huntress, Yang doesn't want to find out why her mom left, Blake doesn't seem to care about faunus equality. My head canon is the tea in Remnant makes people dumber and more forgetful. It's strange how basically every volume since volume 4 has a scene where the characters sit around and just drink tea, I have to wonder if it's an inside joke, and after volume 8 I never want to see the characters drink tea ever again
@@selena44842 my head cannon is that they don’t really care about their goals on the inside. But rather, they’re just trying to lie, cheat, and steal their way all while looking innocent. Well, that or they’re Salem’s sleeper agents
Harsh? No Twiins, you were anything BUT harsh. You NEEDED to say these things. You could not sit idly by and just be silent about this. And your anger over what should have been improvement that ended up being squandered is justified. Don’t apologize for being fair and right.
I agree with this 100%. Die hard RWBY fans are gonna' baby the hell out of the RWBY writers because they eat up anything they put out. But Twiins clearly cares about not just the show, but actual GOOD writing. Her anger is completely justified, especially if the writing is so infuriatingly asinine and dumb. Honestly, I felt as though she wasn't harsh ENOUGH. XP
*Gives Ironwood's soul a hug* "It's ok my friend goes rest in Elysium with the true heroes of life." *Opens portal to the underworld where Pyrha is waiting with a smile*
Speaking of the underworld... if there is a hell on remnant Penny is probably in it. Why? Well the god of light hates it if anyone but him creates life... so he does this. Or at least that's my theory
"But they're just kids?" They're fully trained huntsmen, like all the fully trained huntsmen who've just graduated. I want to love this show, but it makes it so hard.
I thought the whole point of Season 3 was that since The Fall of Beacon, childhood is essentially cancelled. Everywhere in the world just became a much more shit place to live and if you can't handle it, you're going to die. Ozpin in Season 2 even suggested that the moment the hunters graduated, innocence was going to go right out the window. It's easy to be heroic in a moment of idealism, but BEING a hero and a defender as your day-to-day occupation is going to have it's own effects on you over time. The fact that early seasons acknowledge this when later seasons either ignore it or outright condemn it is just ridiculous.
@@Avengedtenfold it’s even weirder how Ruby herself acknowledges pretty early on that life isn’t like a fairytale, so it’s strange how they make her obsessively want to save everyone despite it clearly not being a realistic action or outcome.
Honestly, Ironwood's earlier characterization is basically an accident, especially S7. There was even a thread about it on the critics reddit. And as far as the whole utilitarian thing, I also saw a comparison between rwby and Gurren Lagann. Rossiu did a similar thing with trying to only save a handful of people and even put Simon on death row just to appease everyone once everything went to shit. After everything was over, Simon forgives Rossiu and thanks him for being the one to make those hard decisions because he understood what needed to be done even if he didn't necessarily agree with it.
Penny didn't want Jaune to heal her, she wanted to die. She hoped that if she died this time, it would stick, and the writers wouldn't drag her soul kicking and screaming to be forced back into this Hell.
So I searched up the "Hero" song and one thing I found interesting is how the lyrics in said song actually kind of directly responds to the direction that the show is going in terms of Ironwood with lines like "I will fight for you no matter how I am despised, portrayed as cruel and heartless" and "What if it's true as they say, that I don't have a heart, that I'm more a machine than a man" It actually made me tear up a bit, not gonna lie.
Exactly Ironwood is perfectly willing to sacrifice his own reputation to keep people alive but no simply because he knows he can’t save everyone he’s hated by the show. Instead we’re meant to side with the morons who put thousands of people in the middle of a fucking desert with no supplies or any idea how far they are away from civilization also surrounded by monsters, also all of those people are accustomed to the cold of Atlas, they just got all plopped in the middle of a desert.
@@RickyUzumaki993 I wouldn’t say I’m sick of it, I think me coming into the show so late and not having to wait for all the stupidity to unfold instead being able to watch all of it, makes it (only slightly) more bearable.
Watching that last part with Glenda telling Ironwood to trust people more, while showing how that trust ultimately got him killed, and scrolling down to see "Trust Love huh?" really gave me a gut punch of emotion.
Yeah. And that last part brought a morbid realization to me. Ironwood did exactly that what Glynda said about trust. And what did it brought him? His 'allies' that he thought he can trust the most, lied and turned against him. Even Winter, who been trusted the most. And events happen afterward until ultimately got him killed and Atlas and Mantle destroyed. 'Wtf' after I saw that.
@@klemenhudobreznik3421 Ozpin lied to everyone in his inner circle and kept vital information which would have influence the decisions of everyone in it. James had a good reason to not trust ozpin as ozpin didn't believe in anyone which led to James believing that Salem is someone who can be beaten through enough force and can be killed. Although James border decision did isolate atlas that wasn't a bad thing had he opened his borders Lionheart who was a traitor could have sent Salem's spies there with ease which ment he was right to not trust in the other kingdoms as well.
"This is too hard". I think you summed up RT's entire problem inadvertently. They keep trying to tell these grand world-shattering Avatar/Lord of the Rings high fantasy stories, but those stories require metric fuckloads of effort to do and take a long long time. Last Airbender was conceived in 2001 and didn't air until 2005 and don't get me started on Tolkien's ludicrous attention to detail.
That's been RWBY problem since day one. The type of story that RWBY wanted to be wasn't possible with it's current resources. Not to mention Miles and Kerry are comedic based writers not dramatic ones, they're not the type to pay attention to every little detail and it shows.
17:00 I guessed Ren; caught me sleeping with that 7/10character split. Well played RWBY is based on fundamental misunderstandings of their own characters: the Tin Man was defined by having a heart, the Lion was brave, the Scarecrow was smart. RWBY’s versions aren’t characters, these are caricatures, which the writers specifically commented on wanting to get away from as far back as V2’s commentary (Jaune isn’t just a goofball, he wants to be a hero; Pyrrha is the best, but she’s lonely for it). Something that bothered me as soon as the team arrived in Atlas was the lack of calling back to Ironwood’s past actions to remind the audience of who he is. And I don’t mean in an evil way. He sends Yang her new arm. “I like the personal touch you added. Don’t worry; in time, you grow into it.” I remember how important it felt in V3 when it was revealed how extensive Ironwood’s prosthetics were. It didn’t seem to me that he had lost more of his humanity; it seemed like he had anted up in the fight against the Grimm. Ironwood was the first major character to be equipped with Atlas prosthetics (I don’t specifically count Penny in this example because she was built from scratch; I do not discount her as a person, in fact, her story parallels some of my favorites in fiction, like CHAS from Roughnecks or Data from TNG), so it made it seem like “the world beyond Veil is dangerous. Ironwood has been there.” That’s why he’s so anxious about the threat he’s been fighting getting bigger and badder, and now that it’s in Veil, we seem him in his element. While the kids and civilians are afraid, Ironwood goes to work, protecting people, assembling a reaction force of the students and Qrow and Glinda once he can find them. Even with his army being hacked, he is the one to make moves to get the situation under control. He wasn’t inhuman; he was a general in a world of wannabe knights and heroes, he was battle-hardened. He isn’t wearing armor and cosplay; he has metal prosthetics and a uniform. You can’t switch to an “anti-military” message after showing that military being an effective peacekeeping force and when fighting a genuinely inhuman enemy. The show got so lost in Salem’s backstory and her Council that they forgot that, in their absence/for most of the show, the primary threat has been the Grimm. Torchwick was “first bad guy” for Ruby, the White Fang are Blake and Weiss problems; the Grimm have torched cities, orphaned Ren and Nora, killed Ruby’s mom. The show has been bad at handling the White Fang storyline; this isn’t news. But to try for the “military leadership is tyranny” angle at this stage just rings so hollow, when the antagonist of that arc is “monsters born from the literal god of destruction who feed on fear and hate”. I agree; generals shouldn’t be in charge. But we went to fantasy land, which has four kingdoms. Why are kings bad by default now? The black/white story of kids fight monsters is fine; so is a morally complex chess game of politics and betrayal. But this show can’t be both simultaneously. Even if Ironwood is turning villain, he shouldn’t be so cold about it; it should feel tragic. He should be openly crying. He loves his home; he should be watching the bomb fly to Mantle with tears in his eyes because he believes that he’s failed to protect his people, but this is all he can do to save the world. Or better yet, have him just be stubborn. Ruby and the gang suggest evacuating to Vacuo (for no reason, sure, but, we gotta put all four kingdoms in the show somehow, right?) and Ironwood can be such a paranoid control freak that he doesn’t trust his people to the difficult terrain, the harsh climate, the lack of a central point to defend. He’s a king in a losing war afraid to leave his castle, and he’s getting tunnel vision, so maybe he starts conscripting civilians into the fight, connecting to what we saw with FNKI, or just backs into the corner of hiding in the subway; while RWBY are evacuating the city via the staff, he leads a last stand against the army of Grimm the writers forgot, and when a doorway appears, he sends his soldiers through, but holds his ground as his tin soldiers fall, so while he may have been losing his way, in the end he gets to die heroically, albeit tragically, now seeing that the kids made good on their promise to find a better way to save his people, even if he ends up dying for his lack of faith. As a neurodivergent veteran, I watch shows like this for a break from things, so it makes me feel aggravated when the show goes HAM in trying to be like other shows, while losing the things I liked about it to begin with (solid character design, cool fights). But when the show’s creators revel in their ignorance, while vilifying characters like me, it does what so many BMBLB shippers were crying out about; it makes me feel like an enemy. I loved this show since the RED trailer, I introduced my sister to it, bought her merch for it, we made OC’s for it. Now I feel like Ironwood: betrayed. Thank you, Twiins, for taking the time to be actively and effectively critical of this show. Your observations are poignant, your jokes are fun, your commentary is substantial. And thank you for sticking your feet back into the FNDM for this one, because bad writing hurts the show, but bad writing coupled with the active intention of spreading a poorly thought out message can be hurtful to the audience too.
The whole “they’re just kids” line and bashing of the military would be fine if said military wasn’t by and large why the world wasn’t completely fucked over. It would be like having a anti violence message in Mortal Kombat. Also I’m pretty sure a world like Remnant would have more lax policy on “kids” fighting, sort of like “The Walking Dead” where no not everyone is a fighter but any notions of them not fighting simply because they’re “kids” is pretty much non existent.
also sidenote the tin mans problem wasn't that he had prosthetics he actually liked them overall seeing them as an upgrade his problem was when he changed too much and I believe temporarily became emotionless his problem was temporary I believe the wizard pointed out the flaw in his verbatum "the fact you want your emotions back means they came back on there own " so the narative plot here should be his panic reaction drugs or a concussion not a lost arm
Honestly the problem I have about Ironwood's heel turn isn't that it happened but how it happened. I had a feeling the guy would turn heel, but I always thought it would be because of his own actions and methods due to how the show teased it. But instead, the show made him the most sympathetic character in the series and had him do everything right regarding the protagonists by giving them his full trust and aid only to have those same protagonists openly lie to him, conceal valuable information, go behind his back and leak valuable information to someone they knew nothing about, etc. The show wanted us to hate Ironwood in V7 and see him as the bad guy, but we ended up seeing him as a guy who wanted to help and was pushed over the edge by both enemies AND friends/allies. And then in V8 in response to the sympathy Ironwood was getting, the show kicked Ironwood's villanousness to 11 and just made him a gun wielding sociopath that tried to nuke a whole city. And on top of that, to paraphrase EruptionFang, the show justifies the writing of his extreme actions by blaming it on a semblance that is the equivalent to a mental disorder (that was never once mentioned or explicitly alluded to in the show) and they STILL expect us to hate him after knowing that the reason the guy is acting all irrational is because he has what is basically a mental disorder. Ironwood's heel turn could have been handled sooo much better and they fumbled his character so hard before saying "Fuck it!" and just spiking him into the ground. And then there's Penny. They basically undermined two of the biggest points in her character arc in just one move by making her human, which is honestly impressive.
Ironwwod seems to suffer from a writing problem new writers are often warned against, what I personally call the "shoot the pet" problem, where a character, usually a villain, ends coming across more nuanced and sympathetic than the writers originally intended, and the audience ends up liking them, sometimes more than the heroes. Instead up taking a step back and thinking up ways they can write the story to work with this new characterization, the author instead forces the old characterization at the audience even if it doesn't make sense, like jamming a square peg into a round hole, and have them preform over the top acts of villainy, like shooting someone's pet, hoping the audience will hate them and root for the heroes instead. Ironwood's actions are so over the top it almost comes across as parody.
Penny turning human was genuinely so, so, so bad, i was genuinely so flabbergasted holy shit cool sirin pfp btw, her writing godstomps whatever the fuck is happening in v8
@@lunatic0verlord10 Killing Pyrrha set the new standard for "Women in Refrigerators". Killing Penny the second time almost leapt over that bar. SO PROGRESSIVE.....
Fucking banger of an analysis. Its a shame the show is in the state its in, it could have been amazing. You got nothing to be sorry for, the writers deserve 100% of the critque they get.
It's like the writers took the line, “He is more machine now than man. Twisted and evil" and forgot that at the end of the day, Obi-Wan was wrong. Anakin still had humanity despite all he did and all he had become. He destroyed the emperor in the end along with his own evil for his son. That's not to say that he should be forgiven of all he'd done, but the point is he/his humanity wasn't "destroyed" as Vader proclaimed. A similar lesson could have been done with Ironwood. But nah, he has to be evil cause team RWBY always right!
Difference also is that unlike ironwood, Vader was basically in an Ironman suit. The whole technology is bad on people thing only works when it’s like The Borg
Vader post-death wasn't immediately forgiven in the EU/legends continuity, it took leia a long time to come to terms with her father being the man who blew her planet up. Emerald barely did anything to prove herself redeemed and was practically lusting for cinder for half the volume. Her fight with penny had only been like, 4 to 5 hours ago at most and that was just the most recent missdeed done to the "heroes". Twiins is right they prioritized a mint-haired waifu over ironwood's development making sense.
@@rachelbachman9074 if I recall correctly a similar situation occurs in the Disney cannon as was depicted in like one of the first books they head released to coincide with force awakens
I admit I haven't read alot of disney star wars so i didn't use it as an example and i'm not a fan of the fact that what i do read tends to be retconned. Example: Caleb Dume during order 66
@@rachelbachman9074 yeah....it still amazes me that anyone can criticize the eu anymore for being so disjointed when Disney can’t even keeps its cut down cannon straight (Another good example is Poe fighting stormtroopers with jet packs in his comic back when that was still a thing)
It really irritates me with how they handled bringing back Penny. What was the point of constantly reassuring her she's real despite her metal body and that she deserves her own life just to give her a flesh body and kill her almost immediately after? What was the point of her becoming the Winter Maiden instead of Winter just to give her the powers a volume later? It renders it all moot. She might as well have stayed dead instead of wasting time on a character they would end up re-killing. Also, poor Pietro. He never saw her after she fell from Amity Tower and never knew she was hacked. He probably could've helped with that so she wouldn't have to become human. The "hacked Penny" storyline was such a waste of potential. They made us think it would lead to her fighting her own friends and possibly help her realize the true power of her free will, but all it was was an excuse to abandon her robot body for an inferior human one, making her easier to kill.
It still baffles me how this show manage to revive, I assume, a beloved character, only to kill them off in the very next season. That is writing 101 levels of bad writing, rendering the previous season completely pointless. I feel so bad for the fans who just want the show to be better.
That got me too, they put so much focus on her only for her to die....again...in the lamest and dumbest way possible when she would've definitely survived. It felt like she was just there for nothing more but shock value and didnt really have any type of purpose beyond that we just look at her and say "OMG SHE IS A ROBOT BUT HAS HUMAN EMOTIONS AND IS REAL AHHHH" Dies "NOOOO SHE WAS REAL AND EVERYTHING BUT SHE IS DEAD AND CAN NEVER FULLY EXPERIENCE BEING HUMAN BIG SAD, MUSIC EVERYWHERE" Like what was the point of all that emotional shit? Was she nothing but a ploy to give emerald a quick ass redemption(which is still complete horseshit in every way possible lmao) And create tension that at the end of the day was pointless but is gonna be dramatized throughout the series?
@@mauriceisaac3646 well they did use the "let me save her so i can gain their trust despite all the shit i have done" move so i was morely going off that but you right.
Oooooo long twiins video nice. Glad to see someone else noticed that Ruby apparently expected all the huntsman to like teleport to Atlas despite the ending of V6 being all like oh man Atlas is really hard to get to
Yeah that part was weird. Did she expect them to all appear like it's Avengers Endgame and show up out of nowhere to save the day? Thinking the kingdoms will just come to save the day out of nowhere is ridiculous.
Not to mention that Vacuo needs all its Huntsmen just to survive, Vale is still trying to reclaim Beacon....and Mistral doesn't HAVE Huntsmen anymore. Thanks to Leo. And Hazel.
Why send help to Atlas/Mantle at all? Ruby told the world that Ironwood was not to be trusted. He is commander of the most powerful military in the world and you just told the world he is bad. If anything, the other kingdoms would be recalling all of their huntsmen and military to have on hand to defend their kingdoms in case Ironwood decides to attack.
stuckerfan 256. Yep! So Ruby being disappointed that no one came to help is a little silly. I would try and give Ruby the benefit of the doubt with excuse that she is a kid and didn't know better. The problem is, the writers have worked really hard at depicting Ruby as being mostly right and righteous in all she does. Even if it isn't instantly apparent. While equally going through great lengths showing Ironwood to be the big nasty meanie who does everything wrong. I am pretty sure they did not intend for the audience to make that assessment. That no one came to help because of what Ruby said in the broadcast.
There's a pattern with these deaths. Basically if you're a redhead, a male that's not a main character, or a villain that isn't Cinder Fall or Neo, you're on the chopping block for dying off at some point.
I don't think I'll get over how hypocritical team RWBY's been with lying and general handling of sensitive information in volumes 7 and 8. They just shat on everything they preached about in vol 6, and put countless lives in more danger than they already were because of their paradoxical behavior. Ironwood wasn't perfect, sure, but he at least tried to do his best with what he was given and made an attempt at trust. All that talk of trust and working together was just for the heroes to pat themselves on the back, I guess.
Also, Ironwood didn’t turn against RWBY for hiding Salem’s immortality from him. He was pretty understanding of their reason for hesitating. He turned against them because Yang and Blake betrayed him by giving state secrets to a know terrorist (who somehow was allowed to run for election?) And since we’re pointing out hypocrisy, Yang then blamed Ruby and her leadership for Ironwood turning against them, when it was _her_ fault.
@@darthkai3621 Which sucks doubly because 1) Her entire character was supposed to be how evil could be defeated by a "Simple, more HONEST soul" since V1 and 2) It completely derails any faith we could've had in Ozpin's already terrible decision making and validates Weiss' complaints in V1 that Ruby is not fit to lead and has never proven herself throughout eight seasons.
Ironwood’s Job was to protect his kingdom and it’s people, whatever the cost. So him wanting to save those he can was a smart decision which he wouldn’t need to do if rwby had just told him the truth! Sometimes some people have to make the hard call. “Our duty, as soldiers, is to protect humanity. Whatever the cost."
Well, on the subject of Halo quotes, how about some scenes about cutting your losses? Some Halo 3 dialogue - *Commander Keyes* "The Flood. It's spreading all over the city." *Admiral Hood* "How do we contain it?" *Commander Keyes* "Find the crashed flood ship, overload its engine core. We either destroy the city, or risk losing the entire planet." *Admiral Hood* _sigh_ "Do it." Some Halo:Reach dialogue - _6-Echo-2 ship gets shot down_ *Falcon pilot* "Oh my God!" *6-Echo-2 pilot* "Mayday! Mayday! *Fox Actual* "6-Echo-2, can you maintain altitude?" *6-Echo-2 pilot* "Negative! We're going down!" *Falcon pilot* "Son of a bit--! We can't watch this." *Dispatch* "Fox Actual, should we send search and rescue birds?" *Fox Actual* "Negative, Dispatch. _sigh_ No point."
@@konstellashon1364something else from Halo 3 when talking about the emergence of The Flood: *Lord Hood* “And you Shipmaster just glassed half a continent!” *Rtas Vandum* “One single Flood spore can destroy a species. Were it not for the Arbiter's counsel, I would have glassed your entire planet!"
if V9 really is somehow gonna be the heroes talking to some dead people, I would absolutely love it for Ironwood to confront Ruby and be like "I was right, I have no regrets, and you need to learn to be a better leader by trusting others and being open." It would be interesting to see Ruby learn a lesson in her short life that has taken Ozpin thousands of years to learn just now. I really want to see Ironwood from beyond the grave going "hey what the fuck was that" and holding the team accountable for deciding they were the only ones capable of leading with no regard for what others may want
Oh I would love that but you seen RoosterTeeth are nothing more than arrogant shits at least the writing staff is there's no gray morals or ethics all of it is just very clear-cut black-and-white if you're not on Team Rwby's and Jnpr's side then you are the bad guy
@@djmars1983 even if you were originally portrayed as all around decent: Ironwood and Qrow suffered from this but since Qrow fell back in like a good little sheep he’s good again.
That would be great, but the writers are so ungodly arrogant and take any criticism as greedy fans being meanie pants, and continue to do shitty writing, making their main characters unlikable while simultaneously claiming "no, they're perfect adorable anime girl protagonists who always do the right thing and are NEVER morally grey!"
Twiins: Thats it Im done with Rwby. Im done with this fandom. Im moving on with my life. PEACE!! also Twiins: *crashes from orbit* I’M BACK BITCHESS!!!
@@theshire9173 I prefer to compare it to an abusive relationship, you know it's unhealthy and toxic, but you can't break up and still hope for it to become better. Tho drugs do fit pretty good as well.
Inb4 before the toxic RWBY defenders accuse you of nitpicking and hating the show even though you criticize it because you want it to be the best version of itself.
@@olserknam Nobody in this comments section is excusing what Ironwood did in Volume 8. They are expressing the opinion that the way it happened was poorly written.
@@olserknam nobody is excusing his actions. we're only criticizing the awful writing choices that were made during volume 8. and i also find it funny that you call critics toxic for criticism of the writing, yet here you are blatantly lying about the comment section through your teeth while seeing us as the bad guys because we simply want this show to be written better. 😐
@@olserknam i appreciate you actually taking your time to talk to me lol well, i actually HAVE seen people simp for ironwood during the volume 7 days. not so much during volume 8 tho. the majority didn't really like ironwood much either due to bad writing (mostly for bad writing) or his actions. and i've seen nobody excusing him, only understanding, sympathizing, or justifying him lol
@@olserknam Sorry i'm not excusing ironwood's actions.I mean his plang was very fucked up.But i side with him because he's the one who are literally doing the right thing.
Also wanna make a comment to show support for Twiins and let you know (on the off-chance you're reading this), this was a very solid video. You really unpacked the ass-hattery of RWBY and its writers very well. Would love to see a similar video for how they completely butchered the ending of volume 7. I remember watching qrow and the scorpion guy fighting the good guy and being in pieces from laughter what a hilariously poorly-written product this is
Clovers death triggered me cause of how idiotic I was for Qrow to not only fight the one friend he made sice arriving and quitting alcohol but to work with the serial killer to kill said friend and then instead of blaming himself or Tyrion he has the balls to blame Ironwood. Like clover was trying to bring them in peacefully to talk to James and straighten the situation out but effin Robin pulled the fucking trigger. I hope that Qrows semblance kills her too cause I can smell a forced romance plot there from then spending a few days in prison.
@@homunculus7 Qrow tried to deescalate the situation on the ship, he’s the one to start the fight on the ground and hit him when he had Tyrian tied up causing his aura to break which allowed Tyrian to sneak up from behind and kill him. I feel absolutely nothing for him when Clover dies.
Notice how there are no female in the list? The only female villians that died is from cinder back story All male villians died while the female get redempted
@@djmars1983 of course they'll all the males the writers can't have body pillows of ironwood like they cam neo and emerald dkntbe suprised if neo goes to the good guys side and becomes BFF's with Ruby
There's something else I forgot to mention a scene that irritated me in Vol 7 is when they were in the office and Yang admitted to Ironwood they told Robyn the plan Weiss said "none of this matters right now" I was sitting there like "Two of your teammates gave away vital information to a stranger it very much matters"
An interesting thought occurred to me while I was listening to this, because your descriptions of the differences between how RWBY reacts to lying vs being lied to brought to light how they are written without empathy. It’s a super common trait for heroic characters to have, you could even say it’s a fundamental part of heroism. But while they have big speeches about saving people and all that, they never ask themselves how Ironwood is feeling in any given moment and whether or not they can relate.
Here is an oddity about RWBY prosthetics that I have noticed. RWBY weapons have followed the tagline "It's also a gun". However another rule that it followed during the beacon era was the weapons had to be locker storable because they didn't have them 24/7. You would think the good guys would follow this rule and bad guys don't. Mercury, a bad guy, had his guns built into his legs. He switches to storable boots at beacon, but has never switched back. Tyrian, a really bad guy, only replaced his tail to do the same function and didn't add new weapons. Ironwood, a morally gray/ bad guy, never decided to put weapons in his prosthetics. He always kept his guns separate. Yang, a good guy, has a gun built into her arm and we have never seen her wear a civilian arm.
The fact that they could've easily changed the story to make Ironwood an AntiVillain who stays in the background and possibly redeems himself and then free up a fuckton of time to focus on Cinder and Salem being the main villains, and it would give Emerald time to develop before she chooses to leave Cinder. All of the weird lack of development in the main 7 villains is due to the fact that they created an 8th in Ironwood. ALL and I mean all, of this could've been avoided if they made Ironwood into an anti-villain or minor antagonist instead of a major villain. And also speaking of ableism. Can we talk about the fact that before the novels, they specifically tried to not have Neo sign, write, or make any form of communication like AAC simply so that they wouldn't have to write for another character? Or so that Neo wouldn't have to explain her emotions or backstory in the main canon. They could also have made gags where they write subtitles for her or something if they really wanted it to have comedic value like it did in chibi. And that they have these weird Music (the movie) moments in the series where they have other characters explicitly speak for her or have music WITH WORDS in them singing as if it's her. But they explicitly in the main series REFUSE to have her actively communicate outside of eye rolls and gesturing. She's canonically mute, and they refuse to have her act like a legitimate person who's nonverbal. The song only leaves a bad taste in my mouth because in the main series she has never communicated or even typed a single word out, it's like they feel that spoken word is the only type of communication that's "real". The fact that we get a full length song before we get Neo literally communicating in a natural way for mute people is disgusting IMO. I feel like a lot of people ignore that part when discussing neurodivergencies and ableism with Yang and Ironwood. Neo is canonically neurodivergent and the story treats her either like a gag or a filler character because they don't want to put in the effort to have her communicate in ways that are common for neurodivergent people. Neo is considered an "easy" character simply because she doesn't have to speak, and they use her as a blend-in extra. But in reality, in order to do Neo realistically, Neo is actually just as hard to write because canonically she would likely still have lines or other forms of communication. And that's ignoring the fact that canonically never question why Neo would even prefer to not use writing or AAC to express herself like she seemed to try to in the novel and Chibi. Why all of a sudden does she stop communicating other than: "the writers don't want to spend time animating her using a tablet or paper to write"? And it gets worse when you look at how characters react to her being mute in the show. Cinder actively seems annoyed and rolls her eyes at the fact that she's mute and speaks AT her instead of TO her. And I don't think that was supposed to be a "this villain is ableist to Neo because she's a condescending bitch" but a "hahah isn't it so annoying that Neo is mute and Cinder can't understand her" even though Cinder spent a few months literally mute. Or the fact that they imply that Neo is communicating in very specific ways OFF-SCREEN... Remember Ms. Malachite? She had to have communicated in some way to Ms. Malachite and others to find Cinder! Meaning that she does have a set way to communicate but they refuse to show it on screen. It's not like she never writes, signs, or uses communication tools, she just doesn't do it on-screen because they find it too boring/hard. It's some of the weirdest shit ever.
Agreed, I think a good way for neo to communicate would be using her semblance to show what she wants like how she transformed into ruby to remind cinder of their deal or at least create words in mid air for people to read. It would save the time needed to have her write down everything or use AAC while also being a clever usage of her semblance as well at least in my opinion.
I've seen enough things in RWBY now to think that the writers are actually sexist (specifically misandrist), racist AND heterophobic, but I didn't catch the ableist side of things. Correction, I don't think that they themselves are any of these things except the racist part. What I DO think is that they are writing for the audience they actively courted, so they can see their views projected back to them.
Regarding the ableist mindset the writers have I have to point out that it doesn't make any sense especially for ironwood who since V2 has shown to be mostly machine and he was one of the most selfless, caring characters. Having to lose another limb just to make a stupid analogy that he's becoming evil is one of the dumbest writing flobs I've ever seen
Also it fails when you take into account Yang: Yang lost her arm when she attempted to attack Adam at Beacon, Ironwood mutilated his own arm to stop Watts. What the fuck was Ironwood meant to do? Just sit there and let the mad doctor do whatever he wanted? Yang’s loss of arm is met with empathy and understanding, her putting on the new arm is meant to be celebrating her getting back up getting back out there, her song “Armed and Ready” reinforces that fact. Ironwood doesn’t get that.
They blundered their way into a compelling character and then had to assassinate him the next volume to keep things consistent and to show that only RWBY's way of doing things is the 'right' way.
I've commented on the ableist storytelling in one of your other videos before so seeing it being discussed makes me so happy! I personally don't see the fandom talk/acknowledge how messed up it is enough, so I'm really happy that you're using your platform to talk about it!
I can understand him losing himself by sacrificing soo much he’s not himself. Similar to in the song “Hero” where he seems to throw everything he has away… can now only sacrifice things that belong to others. Which may not be “bad” but it goes against “saving” others. Which would make it grey… which they don’t want… I guess. Then that he goes so far, becomes insane from paranoia, I can see that, he becomes bad due to crazy, shoots those he “can’t trust” rather than being reasonable. But that would need more set up… or a “less subtle” approach. But yeah… they could have done it all WAY BETTER! But yeah, after this video I can really see the lack of love, the low hanging fruit of “if it’s a common view of what’s bad, it is doesn’t need explanation, it’s obviously bad.” Like, man bad, army bad, war bad… etc. I think the biggest analogy of how badly and clumsily it was done is that fight with him and Winter. Where he’s swinging around this dumb clumsy cannon thing. It looked ugly, should’ve just used his pistols.
Speaking of Ironwood vs Winter, can we talk about Winter's hypocrisy? She claimed that Ironwood "sacrificed everyone else" with the embargo and "squeezing Mantle until it choked". Really Winter? Let's talk about your three claims: 1. Uh, his song literally includes the lyrics *I would die* *Without regret, I'd offer up my life* *With zero reservations I would fly Into the sun, if that would keep our dream alive* Those seem like a self-sacrificing person to me you white-haired bitch. *I will fight* *For you no matter how I am despised* *Portrayed as cruel and heartless,* I am might I am power, *I'm due process, I will smite* Those sound like someone who'll protect the people who will never thank him and will even hate him. Why is it that fans and writers always use songs as an excuse for other characters, but Ironwood's is ignored? 2. He based the embargo on your reports on Mistral Winter, did you forget? (Vol. 4) 3. "Squeezing Mantle until it choked" was probably referring to him declaring martial law. Well guess what Winter? You also suggested declaring martial law after the election killings and Robyn stealing dust supplies so y'all can finish building the tower (vol. 7 chapter 7). It's not like Ironwood's the first to consider martial law a viable option for something. You have similar ideas to him you hypocrite, and those weren't due to Ironwood "pressuring" or "oppressing" you. Honestly, Winter turned from one of my favourite characters to one I can't stand.
This is such a great video and such a perfect discussion about ironwoods character. It sometimes makes me think that whenever I watch RWBY….it makes me feel sick and disgusted. With how they portray a suffering and paranoid man as a bad guy. With how getting a prosthetic doesn’t consider you “human” anymore. How basically telling you that if you have ptsd to “just stop it”. Abusing friends trying to help you makes you the good guy, abusing a kid and suffering man who have been hiding things and forced into this situation and killed multiple times by his loved one makes you the good guy, abusing a paranoid man who has had his trust broken time and time again by people he loved and cared about and honesty just is trying to handle the situation the best he can makes you the good guy. This is why for me it’s so difficult to agree with RWBY. There’s nothing to love anymore, it’s all about profit. If they really think this is the way they want to handle the show? Then please just stop making it altogether. They keep promising good material and they fail, good characters and they fail, good WRITING and they fail. It would be best to just cancel the show when all they do is just insult the people who watch it and never listen to the things they really need to care about.
I agree, RWBY pushes a lot of strange ideals onto it's audience. People with prosthetics have no soul, being different makes you less human, Love is a cure all for trauma, people in authority are untrustworthy and delusional regardless of their ideals, equal rights activists are all crazy extremists that want to rule over others and are also abusive creeps who stalk their exs, lying, cheating and stealing is okay if its "for a good cause", it's okay to abandon your loved ones and never apologize because you're just protecting them, abusive victims get a free pass to inflict the the same physical and verbal abuse on to others etc.
@@selena44842 RWBY sends a lot of mixed messages: another one I can think of is how they handle Qrow’s alcoholism vs Willow Schnee: they make several jokes about Qrow being a drunk, they then try (and fail) to make it a serious issue which fails because of how easily they poked fun at him, with Willow her drunkenness was and is portrayed as a the tragic life ruining thing it realistically is, we’re not meant to laugh at her or find her “funny” or “cool”.
22:42 I'm so glad you brought this up. Ruby completely forgot that she wanted to be a hero "just like in the books", and she has her silver eyes which can nuke Grimm, but she chooses to sit this fight out. Weiss and Blake are powerful, and they choose to do nothing. These aren't actions of heroes; they're actions of villains. If their characters weren't FUBAR before, they most certainly are now.
@@venustheanimecat6513 I think it's because the fans are too attached to the series at this point, looking at the fandom at this point. It's more of hating anyone that hates the show instead of actually liking the show
@@Peigay Yeah, if anything the RWBY fandom is kind of an object lesson in why you don't want to become too much of a fan of something. I was the same way with Blizzard games. Monstrous fanboy, Orcs and Humans was literally my first real video game, I loved Diablo, Starcraft, and played WoW from launch up until BfA. I was That fan. Whenever people questioned Blizzard's practices, the immediate response was making excuses or ignoring the tarnish on my favorite game company. Because it's emotional now, you're not thinking it through, you just remember the good feelings and games that made you happy when times were good. For a fullblown fan, criticism isn't just opinion or critique from a differing opinions. It's an attack on something you have a massive emotional attachment to. Criticism might make you second-guess your fond memories, make you wonder if "maybe the thing that made me so happy isn't as good as I remember it?" So... I dunno, don't ever become a fanboy when you like things.
@@patchwurk6652 agree, same goes to Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas being compared to each other. Many fans of Fallout New Vegas just keep saying that 'Fallout 3 bad, Fallout New Vegas good' or Fallout New Vegas is better than Fallout 3 for many many MANY times to the point it became irritating and annoying. For me, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas are like two brothers that made Fallout series lovable and memorable.
I truly believe that they made Ironwood a villain so shittily because he made more sense and was a far better character than the main crew. Bro was my favorite character in the show and they just snapped their fingers and went “yall think he’s right and RWBY is wrong? We shall change that!”
It continues to bother me that right after Ruby, Blake, and Weiss watch Salem invade Atlas, what they decide to do is...have some tea. No desire to spring into action, no coming up with a plan to help the people in imminent danger, just drink tea and talk about how bad everything is, even though they're mostly to blame. Did they not realize how useless this makes their main characters look? In the end, the volume just proved Ren right that they weren't ready for any of this. At this point, after their plan involving sending defenseless civilians to a place where they’re no safer than they were before while Atlas and Mantle are both destroyed, they all deserve to have their licenses revoked.
It just cemented who they are really: Arrogant little brats that will happily crap on someone else's idea, proceed to do no work in return and then whine that things aren't going their way. And on top of it all, Yang was probably the worst, because even though she wasn't lazing around drinking tea, she was acting as Ruby's thug, keeping Ren in line and stopping him from speaking out, telling him he's going to "Push everyone away." Last time I heard talk like that, it was from Dutch in RDR2 and that was when he started to go crazy. So I don't know how they thought that was a good look for the Bimbo. As for revoking their licenses, it wouldn't matter. They got their licenses after not even completing half of their first year at "Training." I'm pretty sure these things come in cereal boxes.
@@jeskler Assuming the people of Mantle and Atlas haven't formed a lynchmob once they return from that Wonderland-esque place. They don't need to know how the staff works to do so, and RWBY and co better pray they never learn.
That's sadly very true. A lot of Fanfics manage to improve on Ironwood, and Qrow....hell, they even made me genuinely ship Arkos! 😄 Having Jaune stand up to his Parents and defend his decision to become a Huntsman (and to continue dating Pyrrha) is one of the the best Scenes I ever read and I actually cheered for him. Its too bad Canon Jaune can't gwt such emotions out of me.
Literally Unicorn Of War rewrote Volume 8 and it is phenomenal go watch it, it had me on pins and needles and gave me goosebumps, I've never got goosebumps from RWBY....EVER!
They did the exact same thing Game of Thrones did with Danerys Targaryen... something everyone agreed was bad. Just because you want a character to become "evil" doesn't mean you can ruin their character to do it.
To be honest, they fucked up virtually every named major character by the end of season 8. Almost nobody was left unruined. GoT and RWBY also have that in common.
For a show that has a lot of villains, the really don't write them well... except Torchwick, but he died early... which I can only see as a positive. And the morally grey characters barely exist...
@@thomasraines1396 I saw someone joke that that was why people latched onto Tyrian: still reeling from the loss of our beloved Clockwork Orange husbando, we craved a man who really just enjoyed beating the shit out of teenagers.
On a different note regarding RWBY's worldbuilding as a whole, I was always wondering how remnant survived with how the militaries exist in thier current state, with medieval tactics and no basic necessities like armored (tracked) vehicles and artillery. For a rather technologically modern/sci-fi setting, having the arguably most techologically advanced military in the world hinge on only aircraft, mechs and infantry is pretty barebones all things considered. Even the city of atlas itself with grimm flying around inside it, you're saying that Atlestions didn't concieve the concept of turreted weapons that could be placed around as anti-aircraft guns and/or artillery to bombard the whale? (Rip, I get that budget restrictions do exist and I know modelling assets do take time and effort but still. I'm not even gonna mention the lack of huntsmen/huntresses either, like where have all the atlas academy students apart from FNKI been the whole time?)
Ima be honest, shitty png turrets would have been enough. Also the tunnels in the final battle instead being used and manned by troops like sensible people are ignored. That's an easy way you can tell the writers were high that day.
Yes, but the main writers are super anti military, which means they don't know enough about warfare to depict it waged sensibly/competently, and have an active ideological incentive to do the opposite, and make it a US civil war/ WW1 style "Oh, the humanity!" fest.
My biggest issue with how Ironwood was handled is that at NO POINT was there an attempt to appeal to his better nature. Winter, who essentially sees him as a father figure, never even tries to get him to listen to reason. She just declares him an enemy and starts fighting him. Nobody mentions his Semblance, which Winter and the Ace Ops should know about, and suggest that that might be a reason for his actions. There’s never an attempt to save him, so what kind of fucking “heroes” are we dealing with here? These are not the actions of people we should be cheering on
They don’t treat his fall as the tragedy it’s meant to be he’s just treated as evil mustached bad guy 100.
Hell the only one who seems saddened by how things turned out is James himself (his crying before he fights Winter).
In my opinion they could’ve had him go out like any of Noble Team from Halo Reach (either version of Noble Six, Emile, or Jorge specifically), self sacrifice all in the name of keeping people safe, or even Grifter from “Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox” where he dies in a last stand but still manages to go out like a badass. Or if they wanted to work the tragedy angle have Qrow go through with killing him but play as a legitimately sad moment: have Qrow approach the situation like Optimus Prime after Megatron dies in the first “Transformers” where he claims “You left me no choice Brother” or like Daryl from the “Walking Dead” as he mercy kills Dale while saying “Sorry Brother”.
In winters defense- fathers can’t be trusted lol
@@Steve19906TF?!
@@crono6874 Daddy issues.
@@Steve19906imma quote gaoshun (apothecary diaries): there is no father out there who legitimately wants to be hated by his own children
Ozpin: *Lies*
Team RWBY: He bad.
Also Team RWBY: *Lies*
Ironwood: *Finds out and punishes them*
Team RWBY: We knew we couldn't trust him
That pretty much sums it up, yep!
@@Dream-Eternal87 Welcome to the new SJW/Ultra-Progressive side of RWBY.
Volume 7 and 8 were loaded with themes like that.
@@DocMicrowave it’s been like this since volum 4-5
I mean that's not what happened but okay
@@crimson1million Perhaps, but it was far more subtle. This is a gurl power show at its core, after all. So it is to be expected.
But more importantly, it didn't force cringy and ridiculous writing like it did in V7 and V8. Even in V9.
"james's semblence is mettle"
Everyone: "I recognize that the council has made a decision, but given that it's a stupid-ass decision, I've elected to ignore it"
@@jacksimpson8529 That's a good idea, we even know it could work in canon because of Hazel's Semblance. It's also nice to tie it in with more then just Aura more like a traditional magic system using willpower like in the Dresden files.
In fact, lets call it a mental illness instead...
Pretty sure Miles just made that up on the spot
@@silverscorpio24
I mean it was pretty clearly invented in the gap between seasons.
- Jason Rose, IW's VA, didn't even know about it until a fan asked him at a Q+A.
- There are no visual or audio indicators of it being active.
- Nobody in-universe discusses it as a potential motivator for IW's behaviour, not even subordinates like Winter/the Aces or his Ozluminati buddies who've known this man for potentially *decades* at this point.
A semblance so stupid, even the writers did not acknowledge it by name in the main series
Fun fact: Yang NEVER mentions that she got the arm from Ironwood in the show. No reference, nothing. Not even a THANK YOU for a state of the art custom made robotic arm calibrated to her specifically so that she can control it mentally like it was her own arm again. Oh and ALSO, he even had the framework of Ember Celica BUILT INTO IT, just as another cherry on top of the trust he placed in her. He had to have spent a frankly ludicrous amount of money on both building it and getting it securely to Vale post-CCT fall, just because he recognized how good of an ally Yang is and did all this to ensure she was back at 100% fighting strength.
And how does Yang repay him? Lies, zero gratitude, and straight up betrayal on multiple occasions.
I don’t think the writers put that much thought into who gave the arm to Yang and as you stated it shows
And Yang had never even met Robyn in person when they decided to tell her the secret.
@@konstellashon1364 Yang doesn’t really help the stereotype of blondes being dumb.
That's not trust.
And ironwood wasn't trustworthy
In fact the only mistake rwby made relative to their knowledge, was telling ironwood the truth
How was he unworthy? He was open with them and helped them out and even took their advice, and they went behind his back while lying to him. They did everything wrong
You know what makes the scene of them admitting they stole the ship hurt me more was because James giggled when they admitted it. You could see before winter started talking he looked like a dad that giggles when they're kid does something bad but is hilarious. The fact that he found it funny rather than staying serious hurts my heart more with what they did to him
they kept telling us how paranoid he is and then when he learns that a group of teenagers who never finished school managed to hijack his airship and infiltrate his kingdom during closed borders, he chuckles??? Like it's amusing to him instead of terrifying him that Salem could've already done the same
RWBY: Yeah, we stole one.
Winter: U fukin wut?
Ironwood: Oh you silly little rascals.
Crwby’s attempt to have the audience turn against Ironwood has severely backfired cause I know that I now feel bad for him and prefer him over RWBY even more
For a paranoid guy, he sounds pretty chill
Ironwood had a heart. Ruby and Co. broke it. James Ironwood is not a villain; he’s a victim.
'And then our heroes showed up.'
I felt that sentence.
"Ah shit, here we go again"
"Congratulations Ruby, you destroyed the mental psyche of a general trying to help everyone in a difficult situation, do you feel like a hero?"
Rwby does a good job of sending the message "never meet your heros", without having the heros doing anything wrong just plain dumb
Some spec ops the line messaging.
“You feel like a hero yet?”
I await the day that team RWBY finds out that they are the bad guys.
I keep forgetting the White Fang were ever in the show with how easily they were dealt with and swept away, and while their methods were incorrect and there’s a bigger bad to be fought it was Blake’s entire mission at one point to stop the prejudice against Faunus.
I know right! It felt like there should have been more to "fixing" them or something.
Sadly by and large it was just “there”.
@@thomasraines1396 Yeah I don't think there's much saving the white fang. They died at volume 5 and buried when Adam lifeless corpse hit the waterfall.
@@noctisastrum7495 that’s true.
I still find the funny part with White Fang (or at least in Season 4 onward) is that they had a decent villain assassin (Illia) have a murder boner for the "so-proclaimed" White Fang betrayer Blake. And then give Illia an actual love boner after nearly killing Blake in the next season or so.
Like wow. I know I was born early 2000s, but i feel like a boomer if this is what love is like now a days. Nearly kill your crush and then profess you had feeling for them a month later
Switching between between Atlas troops fighting and dying in literal trenches and Team RWBY sitting in a mansion drinking tea is a fast way to turn an audience against the "heroes".
yeah, seeing our "heroes" fighting side by side with the soldiers of atlas would have been better. that despite being hunted by atlas, being branded as "criminals" they chose to defend atlas. to try and succeed where they failed at beacon.
ive played rwby character ai chats that were better than the actual show
Blake: “his heart seems to be in the right place, but that doesn’t mean we trust him”
Also Blake: give information to a bitch they don’t even know well and could be just like Adam, a person who pretends to do the right thing but only did it to reach his own goals.
Yes but she's a female so it's better than a male ij their eyes
Robyn was openly committing act of terrorism against Atlas by raiding their supply lines.
So it’s more like:
Blake: I quit the White Fang because I realized terrorism was bad and wanted to changes for the better.
Also Blake: I betrayed the law and gave state secrets to a know terrorist, turning back into the terrorist I supposedly regretted of having once been.
Old habits die hard.
Wasn't this during a time where they knew for a fact that Salem had a spy in the city? So for all they knew, they just gave Salem's pawn key information on their plans.
@@Rand0mPeon don't forget Yang also criminal at some point, her mother was way better person than little miss attitude bitch. She destroyed Junior's club, his men, twin malachite, sexual assaulted him. Killed adam for her cat girl, never told truth about Raven being Spring Maiden, worked with Jaune's criminal plan to steal ariship, turn back on ironwood. She has done so many shit.
@@Rand0mPeon
She's been like that from the start.
In Volume 1 she left the White Fang because they were going too far and hurting innocent people and she didn't even deny Weiss's accusation that they wanted to kill all humans, instead saying they were just very misguided as an excuse.
And yet she somehow wants to think that stealing Dust shipments like they have no doubt done plenty of times before should be too low for them to sink to.
“Are the characters stupid or are the showrunners lazy?”
Yes.
The right answer is fucking YES
their stupid lazy
Yeah pretty much
Both
Both
What infuriates me is that the girls, or ANY of the heroes, could have easily halted ironwoods decent into madness by just offering alternatives to his decisions which also ties into the whole "Tell him LITERALLY ANYTHING" issue.
Ironwoods worried about massive grimm attacks: Silver eyes is literally the most efficient grimm killer in existance.
Ironwood doesn't think he can save everybody in mantle in time: hey Weiss, person who's been groomed to take over the SDC for who knows how long, tell the man about all the extra hundreds of ships your family has at the ready at any time.
Ironwood wants to use the staff to jet into space and leave mantle to die: suggest using the staff for literally anything else because the staff can do virtually anything and atlas won't fall immediately after taking it out because convenient gravity dust.
Instead of offering any type of argument against his ideas, they just spout generic and useless platitudes at him and expect the paranoid man to just get it and fall in line with them. Its not like he wasnt receptive to ideas, if anything he was literally BEGGING for guidance. They just decided to fuck him over for no reason then get mad at him for losing it.
Yeah that's the thing if they talked to him first or try devise a plan instead of immediately villainizing him they could have come up with a plan that pleases both party.
@@stuckerfan2563 and as far as I can tell, they still hadn't told him SILVER Eyes was a thing yet. Why?
If Ruby hadn't jumped to tell Jaune about about the staff plan and let Jaune talk, they would have come up with a compromise: We keep evacuating people, you go rescue Oscar.
@@MsAnimefan95 Yeah.
And the thing is, there are plenty of solutions. Even if we ignore any of the solutions we can come up with on our own ("Okay, we use the staff to land Atlas next to Mantle. Then we use it to create a shield like the one Atlas has that encompasses both of them while we continue evacuating everyone. Once the city is clear, we use the staff to send Atlas into the sky again, and bring it back down near one of the other Kingdoms so we can regroup and begin rallying the rest of Remnant"), there's something very important that they all seem to conveniently forget:
Ozpin. Ozpin is still very much present. Even if they're angry at him because he's lied to them, this man has been holding the line against Salem for *millennia* now. We also know that he's still keeping an eye out and will help if they need it, because when Oscar didn't know what to do during the helicopter crash, Ozpin stepped in to save him. Oz is also more familiar with Salem and the Relics than anyone else on Remnant. Furthermore, James knows the truth about what happened with Ozpin now, so you can't use the excuse of being worried about how he might react to learning the truth. Instead of sitting here shrieking about how wrong he is and offering no solutions of your own besides "fight and hope for the best," offer this idea: We find Oscar, suck our petty grudges the fuck up, and just ask Ozpin for help, because we're in deep and he's been willing to come back and help in situations like this before.
Did the Writers just forget how extensive Ironwoods prosthetics are? Like he’s got that shit all over his body and he still cared about humanity why does losing his other arm suddenly mean he “lost humanity”?
My best guess is they were going down the "Cybernetics Eat your Soul" trope but forgot to show him losing humanity. Or maybe he just loved his other arm that much.
Also that line of thinking falls flat as Yang has a prosthetic arm and she’s still treated entirely as Yang.
Apparently it shows that Ironwood cares for efficiency, he could have waited for his arm to heal but he was rather impatient.
@@daisyperez6708 shit was going sideways and his arm didn’t have skin on it: he’s not healing from that, there was no “waiting”.
Not just Yang, there's a certain character who's got even more robot parts than even Ironwood who's still got their humanity.
You want to know something even more messed up. Ironwood, the real Ironwood character we knew for most of the show, reminds me a lot of my father. Similar sounding names, tall imposing yet kind men, both are leaders, both are deeply loving to their close circles, incredibly giving, neurodivergent (hyper focused), great with technology, respect for the military, and they even look similar.
So you could imagine how I immediately became attached to Ironwood when I first saw him in the second season. I was basically seeing my father in the show and I was loving it! I only grew more attached to him the more I saw him, especially as he grew to look more and more like my father. I even showed my father his scenes and he was happy to watch those with me even if he didn’t watch the show.
Then I heard they made Ironwood into a villain. I saw what they did to his character and I saw how he was killed off. I cried really hard when I saw those scenes and I was hurt and angry. I’m still hurt and angry at the show and I never showed RWBY to my father ever again. It was basically like watching a bunch of writers using stupid teenage girls to gleefully kill my dad. Ironwood of course isn’t my dad but the similarities are too close for comfort for me, they made me extremely uncomfortable.
I can understand why you’d feel that way, my friend
*offers Internet hugs* 🫂
It's really telling that Ironwood was the only one who showed any form of regret at having to fight former allies, from the tear he sheds before the he fights Winter in the vault, to the tired sigh of relief when he thinks Penny has come without a fight. Even when he is supposed to be this irredeemable "Genocide General", he remains the most sympathetic character in the volume. That's not even getting into him being the only one to actually take an active role in resisting the currently ongoing invasion by the witch of darkness. Saving countless civilian lives of those on Atlas, including an unknown ammount of refugees from Mantle mind you. But sure the "Heroes" are the one we are to unambiguously root for. But where was Ruby Rose the entire volume? The world wonders.
Nothing but drinking tea. It sickens me that people think she’s a hero
It’s honestly sadly impressive how they make are hero’s so unlikeable
@@flowersandcheesecake1710 fucking girlboss, eh? ditching their city just to tear down others in their pursuit of virtue signaling. i can't wait to see how the fuck the writers are gonna make the story come to an end if werner doesn't just outright cancel it mid-production.
@@liben5052 And also won’t do the job they sign up for! Smh
@@darthkai3621 if this were a better written story, the girls would be out kicking butt and taking names! Not drinking tea. They wasted so much by just having them wait to be attacked.
having an anti-militarism message in a setting where the civilians are under constant threat of a monster invasion, monsters that cannot be reasoned with, is... kinda strange ngl
I'm gonna say it, IT'S STUPID AS HELL! How would you even do that? Would the monsters just stop if they said please?
It would be like having a non violence message in something like Mortal Kombat.
@@thomasraines1396 Exactly, they HAVE to fight or the villains will win!
@@legendarymarston9174 yep.
And all the while they bash the military, they're propping up the Huntsman system. Which for all the fanfare of being devoted to protecting humanity, is in practice really a glorified mercenary market.
It's acknowledged in-story how villages have been destroyed because they couldn't afford Huntsmen.
"He's not a girl the writers and fans can't fantisize about."
Shots fired!!
Edit:* can
Also true
@@marlom7882 yep.
They do realize that women can fantasize about boys too, right? XP
@@3ds_fellgod-myhopewillneve617 yep.
@@3ds_fellgod-myhopewillneve617 they can what!? Wow… I did not know that
Kerry "And then of course Ironwood now losing another part of his humanity."
Ironwood heroically sacrificing a arm in background.
I dont think you understand symbolism very well.
Honestly, that isn't the case. He heroically sacrificed his arm in the prior volume, showing his devotion. Here he cut off his sitll living, if wounded, limb frmo his body cause it was 'in the way'.
@@taddad2641 It was definitely in the way in his fight with Watts so replacing it with a prosthetic does make sense so that it won't happen again.
So him being willing to sacrifice an limb to save people is supposed to show a lost of humanity? By that measure, he should be as short sighted and childish as the heroes....oh, was that the point?
@@mosesmm5473 Are you saying sacrificing an arm to make sure that the bad guy doesn't get away and do any more damage is supposed to be shortsighted? Because that seems pretty logical to me.
@@unknownbystander8145 That's the exact opposite of what I was saying. I was trying to imply that the writers seem to think that for whatever reason.
Also winter's line of "you sacrificed nothing" makes no fucking sense when this man sacrificed it all along with himself and if you wanted to be poetic, his humanity
He mutilated his own body to stop Watts.
what does she think he wears the prosthetics for FUN?!
What does Winter even know about sacrifice anyway? And even worse, if Ironwood had sacrificed everyone else she’d be an accomplice because she was like his second in command 🤡🤡🤡
What’s worse is that Winter didn’t sacrifice anything during this volume making the writing for that line stupid completely unself-aware on what’s happening and Winter herself an as*hole
@@flowersandcheesecake1710 and Winter herself was the one who 1st brought up declaring Martial Law. ua-cam.com/video/ADMyKx14F_4/v-deo.html
Let’s me guess this straight… Ironwood despite having a complex personality, understandable motivation, has helped the protagonists several times and has a clear desire to save people isn’t given a redemption arc because he disagrees with the main crew on there plans.
BUT Emerald, a character who has worked with the main villain, fought against and tried to kill the main protagonists, helped orchestrate the Fall of Beacon and even help cause Penny’s first death is given a redemption arc because a farm boy told her to stop being evil…
That isn’t even bullshit, that’s horseshit!
It's truly disgusting.
It's an insult to the viewer's intelligence, one of the poorest displays of a moral compass I've seen in fiction, further fuel for the, "If she's relatively hot, she's forgiven while men get crucified for anything" vibe this show has been pushing since Adam's character assassination in V3 and it's just so stupid.
Like, at the very least, Yang and Jaune should've said "Hell no." Emerald is part of why Yang lost an arm and Jaune lost Pyrrha, because that green-haried tapeworm was simping for discount FMA Lust.
And the fact that James, who has overlooked crimes, helped where he could, trusted them with sensitive information, provided anything they could ask and BEGGED, with tears in his eyes as that bitch Winter put the final knife in his back, to stop this madness, is supposed to be this "Genocide General", but all Emerald, "I burned your school and helped kill your friends" has to do is "Switch sides" and she's forgiven?
There is no way to make Team RWBY even seem tolerable by this point, let alone heroic, because this is a vile display indeed.
@@randomcenturion7264 At this point, I somewhat want Salem to succeed in her goals just so Team RWBY gets some sorta of comeuppance for the destruction they played a part in.
@@kedharswaminathan7571 Given how the "Plot" is written to pretty much glorify that quartet of terrorists for everything they do, I doubt they'll ever get their just desserts.
That’s what I’m saying
I’ve always like the concept of Emerald joining the good guys, but we’re 8 years into the show. In my opinion the execution of this redemption arc was rushed, and overall OK. But in a volume where ironwood should been redeemed for doing what his right for him, a general, other than a group of inexperienced teen, it just feels wrong, very wrong.
@@OnlyOSpoonFull pffft what good guys? THEIR ARE NONE!! Emerald just decided to join an even more evil side she got bored of salem and decided hey team rwby are doing more shit to destroy atlas I'll join them
You know what's really dismal about the writing? Despite Ironwood not arresting Ruby's crew for stealing an Atlas airship, giving Yang a free prosthetic, defending Weiss at the party, giving Ruby's crew a place to stay, huntsmen licenses and training by an elite crew of hunstmen so that they can get stronger, they still do not trust him.
Meanwhile, Emerald comes up to the group and Ruby lets her join her crew. Despite the fact that the last time they saw each other was at the attack at Haven. Despite using her semblance to cause Pyrrha to kill Penny, playing a role in the fall of Beacon, and working with the big bad of the series. But I guess it's okay because she is a cute anime girl.
To be fair how would anybody know Emerald killed Penny by using her semblance on Pyrrah?
Nobody knew she tricked Yang.
@@sprite9897 Other than the fact that they knew something was up (Especially Yang the victim here), how does that make it any better? They knew she worked with Cinder... There is no other explanation other than she is a cute girl.
@@QuarianGuy you would think Yang would comment on that, but sadly her being ostracized for “breaking” Mercury’s leg didn’t go anywhere and basically stopped being a thing as soon as it started.
>Nobody knew Emerald tricked Yang
>Also Emerald tricked Ironwood by the same semblance and at least half of the team saw it
I'm calling stupid for sake of plot card.
Emerald was with Cinder that should be enough to see that she a bad guy so to me they shouldn't let her be on their side so easily gotta please the male fanstay ,while female fanstay is being ignore , I thought male gaze is a bad thing ?
I love how Ruby expected that a whole kingdom could mobilize their entire military force and fly to another kingdom in under 6 hours.
Did ruby expect it to be here in less then an hour like it was takeout? also she caused a global panic now thx ruby u whinny little shitbag monster
@@nyhtfall1969 is it weird that I find rubys voice super annoying now?
I know right? Like, it takes weeks, maybe even months for nations to even DECIDE to go to war, longer to mobilize and then they need to establish a base of operation.
So not only did Professor Big Boobs not teach them how to fight Grimm properly (seriously, the army does most of the work), no one even taught them proper logistics, political acumen or, Fuck it, basic common sense.
Right? It was like a 1-2 week training/boat ride just to get Blake's Menagerie army to Haven in Volume 5, and Atlas is even further north XD
@@igorpachmelniekzakuskov776 No, I find her voice annoying too
CRWBY writes RWBY with fixed plot points to achieve. This is why all the good guys share the same opinions, why Ironwood acts the way he does, why the portal plan is so poorly conceived. The show is not written to explore a world and the lives of its characters, it's written to advance a plot they already decided at the start. It's a series of bullet points to accomplish, while people who are legitimately passionate and mindful about the world and characters - the artists, animators and other unsung heroes in the staff - have to shut up and crank it out, knowing they are powerless to change things, so they just do the best they can. So many things like Mantle and Atlas' great environments and Neo's expressive mannerisms, those are all because someone in CRWBY legitimately cared about how the world of Remnant works and how its characters move and think, and went out of their way to add it when the script doesn't go into detail.
Well said!
We need more people who were willing to show those moments of expression and world building than whatever the showrunners and writers are plopping out.
@@MisteRRYouTuby They had one but they fired him.
Every time I hear the "They're following Mounty's plot" argument, they don't get that Mounty didn't write every single thing and dialogue, but bullet points. You can see how often you have obvious "key moments", but either no build up or just "deal with it". It's like trying to understand a myth with just the results of events. They also feel the need to add tension between characters, because those are the sort of things that are often forgotten or put aside when you write over 9 seasons. Gang, we have two clear objectives, we can do both things as we are numerous and have worked on our own before. Ooooor we could argue and make it some sort of "Civil War".
THe problem is that they don't even know what endgoal they're going towards.
You don't have this many blatant retcons of previous details less than a season or even less than an episode later, completely rewriting, omitting, or just abandoning important elements if you actually have a clear plan.
Like I can totally believe the show HAD a plan, but whatever it was ended up stuffed in a dumpster several seasons ago when the show decided Yang cares more about her deadbeat mother than her beloved sister she supposedly cares about.
When you realize Salem won by doing nothing...
She can just sit back and let the " Heroes " do her job for her
Thats literally what happened salem and cinder didn't destroy atlas team rwby did it all while having the nerve to claim they were in the right for everything
They really “killed” the actual, literally wants to destroy the world, main villain of the series halfway through the volume just to make way for villain Ironwood.
It’s like something out of SMG4 (a UA-camr who does Mario parodies) at one point Luigi wins a game by “doing absolutely nothing.”
@@thomasraines1396 yeah
@@dlo397 And then, ugh, Cinder was the final villain after him. It felt nice watching her eyes fill with fear when Salem FINALLY arrived in front of her as she tried to come up with a BS excuse as to why the last wish was used up.
Honestly, Ironwood's fall is just another example of rwby's biggest problem: Setting things up without proper payoff. Seriously, how many things in this show become terrible because they simply decide to rush through everything? The White Fang, Yang's PTSD, Adam's death, Bumblebee being cannon, pretty much everything with oscar, etc. Its like RT just wants to get to end result without realizing that its the Journey that makes these things compelling. You need to take your time with these subplots and sometimes, that's just not possible if you try to release a volume every year.
Also, damn, your last speech at the end got to me. Its like expressing how much you wish a drug addict could come clean. But no matter how much you plead, it just falls on dead ears
I’m reminded of quote from the Robot Chicken version of Skeletor from “He-Man”: “Life’s a journey, not the destination.”
Oh... Bumblebee is officially proper cannon now? How... Quaint. Nevermind the actual time, dedication, loyalty amd faith and abuse Sun gave and endured with Blake, and actual chemistry. Although I guess, the toxics being together is realistic, so... Realism, I guess.
At this rate, there's no hope for this show to improve.
Let's add a few more to that list shall we:
Jaune grieving
Dust, all of it
Yang meeting Raven
Blake and Sun spend 2 volumes together and they were set up as a couple since volume 1
Weiss's prejudice against faunus
Why does Hazel exist?
Tyrians "but you interest me."
Qrow who supposedly stayed away due to his semblence just stays with the heroes now.
Grimm, are they even a threat?
I could go on.
@@andreasfiltenborg4952 Qrow as a character is ruined because of his semblance:
He and Raven were both sent to Beacon to learn how to kill Huntsmen, with Raven it makes things even worse because we know Qrow’s semblance doesn’t affect him, it affects people around him, so sending them both would just increase their odds of getting screwed over in some fashion,
His semblance seems to be the reason as to why drinks so heavily (again tragedy) however the show constantly and unapologetically makes fun of the fact he’s a drunk,
Qrow was somehow able to be a teacher at Signal despite his semblance and the fact he’s “always drunk” (according to Glynda),
The tribe of bandits and killers who thrive on the “strong survive” somehow hasn’t killed him, due to the fact he literally brings bad luck everywhere he goes and could’ve easily been attributed to all the bad luck that happened to them.
Ignorance and malice are not the same thing, but ignorance has a shelf life. It will expire, and when it does, it becomes negligence; continuing to rely on it will do harm. There is no innocence in that.
Willful ignorance is purposeful malice, that’s my view on the matter.
I think there's 100% malicious intent behind all of this... :T
@@spenjak18 I mean yeah there probably was, V8 seems like damage control after they accidentally made Ironwood the most complex and likeable character in V7, like honestly they wanted him to be an unlikeable villain and failed miserably so they went as hamfisted as possible and had him shoot an innocent civilian at the beginning of V8 and it was all down hill from there, RWBY at this point is the writer's and VA's power trip at this point so they can't have the main cast being overshadowed, like I'm pretty sure Blake's VA recently tried to cancel one of the writers for the new RWBY anime by making someone else's abuse situation all about herself while dragging the poor writer's ex-wife's history out into the open when she just wanted to put it behind her, these are the type of people behind RWBY now.
If Ironwood was put in chibi I'd imagine the gag would be he hyper focuses on something and then people would laugh he can't move or do anything besides that one thing. Like "haha you've been at that jar of pickles for 3 days!"
You know, I don't watch RWBY Chibi so I didn't know he wasn't in it. But now that I do, I'm blown away! Like? Why not?
@@twiinsiink 18:55 Is prob your answer.
He would be like Patrick Star from SpongeBob when he’s questioned what he’s doing he just responds with “focusing!”
@@thomasraines1396 Ruby: Back Up, Jack
@@TheVTable Ironwood: “hey nice place ya got here.”
“Team RWBY may have not liked Ironwood’s plan, but at least he HAD a plan.”
A 100% that. I remember watching the final episodes of Volume 7 and thinking exactly that. Both Ruby and Ironwood are trying to save Mantle and Atlas, but Ironwood is the only one of the two with a plan. Team RWBY only comes up with one towards the end of Volume 8.
It's like in-universe reliance on plot armor.
IT was a stupid plan tho frankly I'm surprised no went Ironwood you just burned off your arm sit down and think.
Honestly, it's similar to the issue I had in Naruto with the conflict between the titular character and Pain. Pain's plan might not have been amazing - he knew that it wouldn't bring permanent peace and relied on the inevitable rise of violence for peace to be reasserted - but he actually *had* a plan with defined goals and methods of achieving them. Naruto's plan was basically "Believe in me, I'll figure it out." Granted, at least in that case it was more of a philosophical conflict. It wasn't about an immediate danger that they were fighting to stop, but rather about their different approaches to bringing peace to the world. So there's a bit more leeway to be had with Naruto's lack of a specific course of action.
RWBY doesn't even have that. They're literally facing down an immediate, physical danger that is currently approaching them, and their entire plan is "fight and hope for the best." It's amazing how Ruby has devolved from a character who wants to be a hero but recognizes that the world isn't a fairy tale in V1 to someone blindly clinging to the idea that they can make the world work like a fairy tale in V7/8.
Team rwbys plan was literally:
Step 1: Break into the vault of atlas that, just like the vault of haven has a convineant hole at the bottom.
Step 2: Steal the staff
Step 3: Say "Please golden magic stick, make our problems go away"
And it's a shit plan.
I do not understand how the writers don't realise how offencive that whole "Ironwood losing his limbs is a metafor for losing his humanity" thing really is.
Remember how when the show was first created and Monty gave them "anime homework?" Remember how Fullmetal Alchemist was on that list? You know, the show wich features two disabled young boys as the protagonists? Two kids who lost an arm, a leg and an entire body? A story where one of the main themes is being human. A show which had a whole arc where one of the main characters was starting to doubt his humanity due to being a suit of armor now (okay, granted, that arc was kind of stupid because it hinged on Al believing the words of a crazy serial killer)? The arc that ended with them literally saying - at multible times, none the less - that Al was still human, despite his circumstance?
How do you go through that show and not learn that being disabled, or born diferent, does not make you evil or disposable? Was FMA too hard to for them understand? This is a genuine question. I am truly baffled.
I think they were thinking of it like Blade Runner, where people would willingly cut off limbs to replace them with cybernetics (which I think would actually fit this idea of "more robotic parts represents loss of humanity"). But they didn't consider how the events of the show drastically change that message. Ironwood DIDN'T chose to just lop off an arm to replace it with a robotic one in an attempt to "become stronger" or something, but they didn't think about that I suppose.
I’m as baffled as you are
@@twiinsiink
Indeed
FMA was probably too hard for them to understand if the other parts of their anime homework fell flat.
@@trulymrword
Probably
Their losing limbs meant losing his humanity idea would have worked if he was chopping off his limbs himself to get upgrades.
Exactly! It's fine idea but the execution just did not work.
That sounds pretty...metal.
It honestly the only way for losing limb=losing humanity to work
Good example would be Wilhelm from borderlands 2 and the presequel.
Just like General Grievous.
Ironwood wanted to save Atlas, it’s entire population, nearly half of Mantle’s population that was already evacuated, a Maiden, TWO RELICS, and indirectly save all of Remnent. Salem was making a bee-line directly to HIM, not Mantle. He was saving millions.
Team RWBY wanted to stay and fight a villain they KNOW cannot be killed with even an entire army. They wanted to risk everyone’s safety with the off-chance they could save everyone. Ironwood wanted to guarantee the safety of the world rather then risk everything for a battle he JUST LEARNED he COULD NOT WIN.
But yeah, that makes him evil 🙄
Everyone who died in the Battle of Atlas? That’s “our heroes” fault
I can no longer consider them heroes anymore they have blood on their hands wherever team rwby go bodies lie in their wake who needs salem when u can have team rwby be better villians then salem could dream of
If not for plot RWBY and their little gaggle of hanger ons would all die and their plan would fail.
Too bad that the RWBY community still considers them heroes @@nyhtfall1969, and the writers as well… and whoever is in charge of RWBY or Rooster Teeth Even though they’re somehow more evil than what is considered evil Ricther Belmont
@@James-oj6ru rwby fandom is the worst fandom I've ever seen i hate the rwby fandom I don't go near that fandom with a 10ft pole a bunch of crayon eaters
@@James-oj6ru- heroes doesn’t mean they don’t make mistakes. I can admit that they had faults but people want blindly say Ironwood had the best plans but his escape plans was terrible because not only does it means that Mantle dies but it means that Salem has free range over Remnant and because of the embargo Atlas the only kingdom with the most fire power but because Ironwood fear he wants to wait to be fully prepared even if the world get set burning.
The transition of Ironwoods character just comes across as the writers going "oh crap, we made him too complex and morally gray, quick we have to make him a Villain now. "
Pretty much, they couldn’t handle the thought that people would side against the main girls in a morally grey conflict so they made the other side jump off the slope.
That is bad writing.
@@jonathanjuarez5544 I agree. It's annoying that the main characters must always be in the right. They never face the consequences of their actions and they never learn from their mistakes.
Is ridiculous and stupid they nerf other characters to make team Rw-by look good , and yet the writer's couldn't make them insteating at all , in vol 7 to 8 here what we know about them so far
Ruby is a gaslighting sociopath
Weiss has anti brother complex
Blake is a damsal in distress weakling cat princess
Yang has a bad nasty attitude who cares about getting cat princess booty then helping out her sister or uncle
nothing about Team Rw-by makes me want to watch them , but we have to like them because reasons , they suppose to be the main characters and yet none of them are good main characters, this a big fail from the writers .
@@loiiysailor1177 The characters aren't that likable, I agree.
I would have had Ruby use her love of weapons more, like upgrading Jaune's weapon herself instead of some random blacksmith. She should have struggled with the responsibilities of being a team leader and learning the harsh reality of the world they lived in. No matter how hard they try, they cannot save everybody.
Weiss should've dealt with her racist behavior more. Her story arc should have been understanding the discrimination that Faunus face, understanding why the White Fang exist and what they hope to accomplish. She should have also tried to be more controlling, to try and take control of the team not accepting Ruby as her leader. That would have created conflict.
Black should have struggled with whether or not violence is the answer or if she should try a more peaceful method. Adam would only be a mentor figure to her, somebody she looked up to and was inspired by until she saw how far he was willing to go for his cause. She should also have some issues trusting other people, especially Weiss.
Yang would have been a protective and understanding older sister. She would have wanted adventure and to use a grimm as an outlet for her anger. She'd be a hotheaded person and have a carefree attitude. Her story arc would have been finding her mother and finding out why she left.
That's how I would have written the characters, to give them flaws and their own struggles. It's just my opinion though.
@@LonelyStar04 I actually read a fanfic that had Ruby help improve Yang, Blake and Weiss’s weapons, she’s just constantly tinkering with stuff and improving them, it was pretty nice.
Also the whole idea that Ruby needs to wise up to how the world works is odd, in her first conversation with Blake she acknowledges that life isn’t like the fairytales so it was strange how they made her a wide eyed idealist who thought saving everyone was a viable option.
I feel like RWBY suffers from using the "Designated Hero/Villain" tropes too much. The good guys are only the good guys because the show says they are and the bad guys are either a botched attempt at a nuanced villain or fucking Team Rocket (or RCKT if you prefer.) I feel like they can make really good morally gray characters, but only when they don't realize that's what they're making.
Hazel was a really interesting antagonist, working for Salem yet still being an overall nice dude who you could actually feel for. But the writers still wanted to make him someone for the 'heroes' to fight so they put a half assed backstory in there that doesn't make any sense and just screwed him over. Emerald had the potential to be a neutral party who leaves Salem and fucks off to do her own thing, yet the creators wanted to make her a hero so they swept a lot of what she did under the rug (she helped with the fall of beacon, she killed Penny, and she indirectly led to Pyhrra's death but the group still accepts her anyway?!) The few times they want to make morally gray characters they're still inside this black and white mentality and it leads to the show constantly saying that they're gray when the characters never really doing anything to deserve that title (looking at you Ozpin/Ozma.)
That’s really messed up. It feels like something out of a CW show.
The audience had long since expected Emerald to switch sides, mostly because they actually showed her backstory BEFORE she became the willing trigger-man for their version of the Columbine Shooting (and as such, every death, including Pyrrha's, is indirectly on her head). They just did what was expected, and it had the added bonus of further erasing Pyrrha's existence (they've REALLY grown to hate her because of the valid criticism in their plan to kill her the way they did).
@@2097Pyros even if it was expected they could’ve handled it in a way that was actually good.
Why does RT hate her so much?
@@2097Pyros What is the criticism about Pyrrha's death?
40 minutes of “Look at how they massacred my boy”. RIP My favorite character in RWBY
I feel the pain. RIP Adam. The most interesting character with reasons you could understand before he was turned into a stalker ex-boyfriend for no reason.
@@itzzbowserjr Don't let the positive fans hear you say you liked Adam's character or that he was very blatantly written differently to be hated before he died
@@itzzbowserjr I didn't care about Adam at all and even *I* think his Character got wasted!
@@johannesseyfried7933 I loved his motivation. His people had been oppressed and mistreated for years, and he was willing to do whatever it took for them to be seen as equals. Whether it was by fear or respect, he didn’t care. It’s no secret the Faunus were an allegory for racism/the African American community, and Adam essentially was modeled after Malcom X. He was interesting to watch because he wasn’t like the rest of the villains in this show. He didn’t even want the White Fang to be a part of the school attack in season 3, but after Cinder threatened them with her maiden powers he knew too many Faunus would die trying to fight.
Then his character completely changed in season 4 for no reason. It’s sad how him and Ironwood both faced the same end result.
@@itzzbowserjr Adam was another character that could have been so good, but no, RT had to go and butcher his character
Just look at his character short
The way the writing team narratively butchered what was basically the only morally complex individual left on the roster in volume 8 was utterly pathetic and infuriating to watch unfold. Great video.
The fact that Ironwood being morally complex and not downright cartoonishly evil in Vol 7 _by accident_ makes V8 both funny and infuriating too. Like Vol 8 Ironwood is what the writers were going for. That was "damage control."
@@tama3162
I call this "Boom kaboom"
@@tama3162 yea I lost all respect for the show after I read that lol, how do you ACCIDENTALLY write a fantastic character, go “whoops didn’t fit in how I expected,” and then subsequently destroy any perceived subtlety or complexity.
I wouldn't say it's infuriating, I'd say it's disappointing. I agree, it sucks.
@@johnpaulcross424 Its like Pilot boy, Miles and Kerry were so frustrated fans liked him more than the characters they spent time and effort on instead of a throw away character they gave VERY little thought to. Added to the fact he was originally written to be gay but were told making a gay character with negative character traits and then dying would be going to far, it was okay for morally complex straight pilot boy to die but not morally complex gay pilot boy. Better for gay pilot boy never to live than to die I guess.
I am absolutely flabbergasted that the person who came up with the plan to save Atlas was Whitley fucking Schnee. He had like, 10% of the total information the good guys had and while they were walking around his house, wondering what to do and sending him to his room, he came up with a near perfect solution. And then Ironwood ruined it because we can't have Whitley save the day when the heroes have done nothing of consequence.
Honestly Whitley and Willow did more good than most of the main cast, which sadly in this show isn't too hard.
wall of text warning, but this is just off the top of my head what Whitley and Willow did in the short moments they were on screen this volume
- Willow provided the evidence of Jacques' election cheating AND the fact Watts was still alive (v7)
- Whitley called Klein when an injured nora was brought to the manor. weiss didn't even consider the known family doctor as a person how could help her injured friend (tea and coffee was too important) also weiss saying how May should care about her Atlesian family when weiss's whole story is a broken home and she just pointed a weapon in her brothers face and told him to go to his room
- Whitley carried penny while blake just opened and held the door for the other 3 (green goo on him not her)
- Whitley came up with the plan to rescue the people from the crater while weiss just complained that her rich family had advantages over the poor (specifically the back-up generator)
- Whitley AS WELL was apparently the only one who could use his dads computer, despite wiess also being raised to take over the company so should know how to control the ships/ drones (in the story its been less than 4 months since she lost her heiress title)
- Willow used her cameras to warn wiess, the now licensed huntswoman, the hound was about to ambush her
- Willow also tracked the hound through the manor before it could get to Whitley, where weiss gave up the chase the second the hound stopped attacking her
- Willow was also the one to save Whitley in the study where they had to run two whole corridors before wiess put an ice wall up to defend the three of them...she apparently was just standing there waiting for them (weiss also just kind of stayed there with the hound as the scene cuts away as she starts to summon but cuts back and the hound is still untouched on the other side of the wall and she unsummons her knight)
- Whitley and willow are the only ones ready to do anything to the hound in the foyer, blake and weiss slowly move penny and ruby just stands there when it comes back through the window
- hound is literally attacking three professional huntswomen (rewatching the clip ruby even curls in on herself as if too scared to move) and yet the alcoholic socialite and her son drop a statue on it without a second thought
@@bluegallade Makes you wonder if Willow is now able to summon the Hound....
I mean, she *did* kill it.
@@johannesseyfried7933Considering he killed it as well I think it would be better if Whitley summoned it. Just as a "screw you" to Weiss for her being insufferable these past volumes.
Whitley being legit was a welcome surprise
Right? Whitley was the damn MVP for the "heroes" in V8. It was a strange moment when I realized that all of his smugness was apparently 100% deserved, because he currently comes off as the most competent person in Atlas and Mantle. Possibly Remnant.
You know what baffles me . No member of team rwby has ever faught a member of team wtch 1 on 1 let alone won against them. There are no dynamics between the Heroes and villains because they have barely interacted . Even Hazel the villain they have had the most interaction with faught Nora , not the main characters and now ironwood defeated watts . When we were first introduced to these villains , I had seen pretty blatant parallels with our main cast
Yang vs Hazel( brute force fighters , one doesn't feel pain , the other gets stronger as the fight goes on, both older siblings who love their sisters)
Blake vs Tyrian ( Faunas, murderer, giving Faunas a bad name and everything Blake hated about Adam but even more)
Wiess vs Watts( from Atlas, both prideful , egotistical and jealous of being outshone by their coworkers
Ruby getting leadership over wiess
Pietro getting funding over watts)
Ruby vs Cinder ( Girls with special powers being the student of an immortal with a personal grudge)
Somehow the writing was all there but they still managed to fuck it up. Now half of them are dead and I will literally feel nothing for these other fights if they happen because they has been no buildup 😑
I remember years ago seeing a break down of the parallels between Rwby and Salem's court back when they were first introduced. I won't go into it here but the amount was staggering and could have been a great thematic set up for the fights to come.
And all of it was wasted
Dear God just when you think rt can't drop the ball any further you just have to look a little bit and you'll find it. How do they keep doing this?????
@@swiftstrike4044 simple they don't like listening to criticism and pander to people who are more obsessed with shipping than the story itself
This is what I wished would've happened. These fights would not only be interesting, but help develop the girls further as characters.
👏
Two things: I find it ironic that the heroes bring so much chaos wherever they go, especially when things were seemingly looking up with Ironwood at the helm.
My second thought was that, it would have been cool if V8 immediately got rid of the civilian problem and Atlas just became a battlefield for Ironwood, Ruby and Co, and the Atlesian Military against Salem, her cohort and the whale/grimm
Good point! Even though Ironwood was paranoid, he did have the Maiden and the Relic secure. And he had a workable plan to reunit the world by establishing global comms again.
Untill RWBY showed up.
He was aready on the edge.
R/W/BY practically shoved him off.
@@DocMicrowave I love how they co-opted his plan and then make him the bad guy. Like yeah, James is paranoid, but who wouldn't be in his situation, but the girls just were so extra and dumb sometimes. 😩
Simeon Washington Lol. They not only co-opted his plan, they didn't even execute it well.
End result, Penny dead. Maiden power out in the open, far and away, and it's new host publically Identified. BOTH relics in Salem's possession. She didn't even have to work for them. Took a nap, woke up, here ya go.
Oh, and of course the cherry on top, Atlas and Mantle destroyed.
NO one, NO Kingdom came to aid Atlas despite Ruby's half hearted call for help after finally getting the tower up and her message out.
(Hmm, I wonder if telling the world 'Ironwood bad', not to be trusted might have had anything to do with that.)
Had to make sure the world, as well as remind viewers, that Ironwood is Evil.
It is practically a crime how many times Ironwood was depicted trying to drive home that narrative.
That Sith backlighting on a black background while he was giving the "heroes" an ultimatum was thoroughly laughable. The only thing he was missing was a cloak and hood.
Trying too much to prove a point you think?
It would've actually been good just to have them come to grips with their lies, apologize, and work together. Ozpin could come out and apologize to everyone, including Ironwood, the heroes could apologize for lying and mistrusting Ironwood, and Ironwood would start thinking rationally now that has time to think right now with only one issue to address, and it could be a good point for coming together to battle a massive threat. It would've been great.
@@bluej4life183 Sounds nice! But sorry, that scenario wouldn't chime with the narritive CRWBY wanted to push. You would be implying that the girls did not do the right thing. That they were........ dare I say....... Nefarious in their dealings with Ironwood. That they were somehow in error in how they handled things.
Nah, R/W/BY did the right thing. Ironwood was the essence of EVIL they day he walked into Oz's office back in V2. He was never to be trusted. He was planning this debacle from day one. And the girls knew this. So they were correct in not trusting him. (If I understand correctly how some fans see this.)
The kiddies are always right. Grownups just don't understand.
that comment about how Ironwood was made the villain is because he isn't a cute girl feels way to on the nose ngl.
Like, we lost how many men this volume who were either bad or just there and yet Neo and Cinder got out scott free. Neo got out because she's a fan fave made on a whim and yet she got better treatment than Ironwood.
Jaques died for NO reason.
But the biggest indicator of why things sucked for Ironwood this volume?
Emerald.
Emerald, who has COUNTLESS crimes under her belt was forvigen in an episode. Her change was as fast as Ironwoods. TeamGOODGUY let Emerald into their team so damn fast. She caused the fall of beacon and the DEATH OF PENNY AND PYRRAH but she felt sad about it boohoo in an OFF-SCREEN scene that the protags would have absolutely 0 knoweldge on. This girl caused fatal casualties and an entire academy to FALL. Penny v1 would still be alive, if she didn't mind-psyche Pyrahh into thinking there was more blades. And although not directly involved in Pyrrahs death she was still part of the bad guy team.
Emerald, within one episode was allowed to join the goodguys and be part of their take-down Ironwood plan to save the robot she helped murder. Because she is a cute, fan fave girl.
Ironwood, using all of the notes you made on his good points in the vid... is now a bad guy because he said "Salem is on our door step, we literally do not have time to save absolutely everyone both here and below. We MUST save one" Team GOODGUY prevented Ironwood from saving at least half of the nation. Now both nations are gone and that Tech is now LOST forever. Not to mention the Schnee dust company which provided weapononised magic to the whole world.
Watts died for NO reason this volume. He has been the main powerhouse on Team WTCH for 2 kingdom fallings. Without his hacking, Cinder never would have won in both Atlas and Beacon. It was his intelligence that got her as far as she did and how did she repay him? Locking him in a room and letting him burn to death...
Hazel went out with a literal mind-switch too. He's always had a shit backstory but him turning on Salem so damn fast like he did was so dumb but he died for it so Emerald can enter team GOODGUY.
Jaques was an asshole, and his end didn't even match his abuse. He was just blown up by Ironwood because... he was in eyeshot?
Ironwoods semblence, they literally could have said was "damage null" where he flat out feels no damage so that he can get through fights... but THEY GAVE THAT SEMBLENCE TO FUCKING HAZEL who wasted it.
Throughout RWBY we have been told that once Aura breaks the semblence goes too. Ironwood was knocked the fuckout by Winter and his semblence broke. When he woke up in that Jail cell his mind should have reverted to a somewhat "normal" thought process where he could reflect on his actions. But no, he woke up and his semblence was apparently still active INSTANTLY.
The show attracted people by cool fights. Those fights died LONG ago but what should have improved through 6 extra volumes of this show was the storytelling and instead we get shit like volume 8 in which characters just do whatever the fuck the plot needs them to do in the most ham fisted way.
Watts died because he pointed how out much of a pathetic loser Cinder actually is.
It's a shame, I actually liked Watts.
i swear i am still hurt by the missed opportunity and the washed build up with ironwood - hazel - and watts.
Honestly, I could argue Emerald was changed just because Cinder could be more dangerous without having to be chained down by lackeys who could act as some kind of moral chain. In Vacuo, you got Mercury who sees all this as some gig with a sweet payday and Tyrian, a lunatic that sees Salem as a goddess whose happiness is the only thing that matters more than satisfying his bloodlust. And with them out of the way, Salem and Cinder can go out and take over Remnant as discount Ozai and Azula.
It is a huge problem with this show. The writers act like these champions of progressivism but they still cling onto the idea that women are innocent and if men are abused it is funny or they deserved it.
Weiss gets slapped by her father, it's taken very seriously. Sun gets slapped around by Blake and it's treated like a joke.
Blake gets abused by Adam so she gets to get away with her own abusive behavior towards her friends. Adam was abused and branded by humans but he's not allowed to hold grudges against them or even defend himself. He gets turned into an abusive ex-boyfriend and killed off.
Yang suffers from PTSD and the writer's take it so seriously. She gets nightmares, hallucinations, etc. She is paranoid that Blake won't come back. Her paranoia is portrayed sympathetically. She cries over Blake's absence and Weiss is there to comfort her. Ironwood also suffers from PTSD, but his paranoia is written off as him being evil and untrustworthy. He then gets unceremoniously killed off.
Ruby lies and has no plan whatsoever to stop Salem, but everyone reassures her that she's trying to do the right thing. Ozpin also lies and has no plan on how to defeat Salem, but he gets abused by our "heroes" (in a child's body no less) and deemed an untrustworthy liar.
Emerald and Ilia are the only villains to have a successful redemption arc. Hell, even Cinder had a backstory that got her some sympathy. But despite having one of the most depressing backstories and being just as young and naïve as Emerald, Mercury gets nothing. No character development, redemption arc, he just exists.
It's ridiculous how egregious this is. I could go on and on.
Like Emeralds “redemption”, the seeds were there but they haven’t grown into anything that’s convincing.
Emerald was ded set up to be redeemed, or at least a inside women, but they rushed it in 8. Just like they kinda jumped the gun with James
Emerald switching sides in Volume 8 would be more convincing if like, she wasn't working with Cinder to try and kill Penny about 20 in-universe minutes before she did the side switching.
@@twiinsiink the way Emerald said all that felt like she was reading off the script the writers just handed to her. It just felt REALLY forced.
I think her redemption works for her on a personal end but everyone accepting it so easily was lame.
Allowing her to be there but keeping her on a leash outside of maybe Oscar and maybe Ren believing and trusting in her would've been a lot better.
@@twiinsiink Even if Emeralds redemption was well handle it would still be fucked up because the side she's joining is basically responsible for getting Atlas and such destroyed so nothings really changed she's still evil and happy to cause destruction only difference is she's no longer moaning for Cinder senpai and is instead a deluded hypocrite much like team rwby.
I could generally get over a lot of the crap Crwby came up with for the show, but I’ll never forgive what they did to Ironwoods character and how they had him kill that one council member just as a quick way to dismiss any need to write an actual coherent way for him to go overboard.
That kill was only there because they wanted the audience to have a “no doubt” excuse to hate Ironwood and fully take RWBYs side. No matter how in the wrong RWBY so obviously is🙄
Seriously, there is no reason he couldn't have just arrested the dude. But no "Ironwood is evul hurr durr".
They assassinated his character.
If i wrote season 7, I would have had the girl's actually trust ironwood, tell him everything, have ironwood restore ozpins trust in the group. As all this success builds up his semblance starts to strengthen with his aura. he has these allies, his plan is working, his old friend is back, his aura is strengthening. Then i'd have him win 3 crucial fights and be the hero to both cities, then with all the failures salem is PISSED! so she comes. He kicks his mettle into overdrive. He's planning he's building his army, the whale comes, he AGAIN rachets up his semblance because he HAS to save the girls, he HAS to save ozpin they are his best friends.
Now he charges into the war, going into war mode, without his knowledge his mettle keeps racheting up, he pushes himself past his "human" limits his mettle increasing all the while. He enters the whale with the girls, fighting off grimm fighting off baddies, fighting off every single obstacle. Then he grabs the girls and jumps out of the whale. Then he pushes through a grim armada.
Now, finally given a moment to rest, he tries to de-escelate his mettle....but it won't. He doesn't want oz to worry, he doesn't want his new girls to try and "save" him instead of keep themselves safe he has lost ALL safety they are his ONE string to humanity. over the next few months his mettle increases but subtly, funding the army, building more forces, building new airships.
The new spending pushes blackouts, he stresses his troops past their limits. In his final confrontation, Ozpin begs ironwood to use his semblance for what it was meant for. Speaking truth to authority, regardless if authority want's to hear it or not. In the very end mettle takes over and the final line of "hero ironwood is"
"ozpin, you have always been my friend. A brother in arms, and a trusted confidant.... yet I cannot let hundreds of innocent people die because you have a grudge from centuries ago!" and like that mettle has taken over, he will not be reasoned with, and he will not change his mind.
After ozpin finally beats ironwood, he walks over and de-activates his aura, and mettle FINALLY cools down. Ozpin pulls him up and says "and I will always be a brother in arms" then they move into season 8 to save both cities. on the talk ozpin will mention how he didn't know friends could be permanent, but ironwood showed him it could, the girls showed him the tides are changing, and finally ironwoods mettle showed him that a plan executed perfectly is better than no plan at all.
So the moral of season 7, would be that despite your flaws, you can always be saved you can always be better, and you are never down and out. you can be the metal man with a human heart.
@@Smol_Eri damn that’s really good.
@@Smol_Eri I think you need to write the show!! 🤧
I don't think you were harsh at all. I thought everything you said was on point. As somebody who used to be a fan as well, your video essay perfectly summed up how I feel about this show and its writing. Don't feel bad for putting your thoughts out there. It was well organized and well done.
Absolutely agree! A critic needs to be honest and specific with their criticism, and harshness is not simply the a sense of sugar coating.
For someone who actually was in support of the symbolism that the more Ironwood turned into a machine being equivalent for him losing his humanity, I was hit with a HUGE wave of guilt for not considering the prospect of ableism. That's a very significant feature to address and needed to be brought up for discussion. I'm certain that RT would never have intentionally targeted prosthetics for a negative connotation of symbolism, but it's there, and other writers need to know how to avoid this.
For the sake of conversation, my decision would have been to further develop the relationship between Ironwood and our other amputee, Yang. Yang has been going through a significant downgrade from her prime years, but there could have easily been a comparison between the two where Yang is striving to reestablish her charms and passions, whereas Ironwood is more determined to strip himself of flesh for the sake of mechanical improvement. Becoming the Tin Man, so to speak. However, if the traits of the Tin Man is what Ironwood represents, we should be mindful of what he strived for; like how Leo was afflicted by cowardice, Ironwood is afflicted by a lack of heart. It baffles me that Yang, who's new arm was requested, delivered and paid for by Ironwood didn't lead to any form of connection between them, or how Yang's firey spirit didn't prove itself more of a contrast. It could have kept the 'More machine than flesh' symbolism without being truly ableist by having Yang stand up for her own humanity. Wasted potential to be honest.
Totally agreed
Personally, this is the deepest hole that RT has dug for the show. Even worse than volume 5 and I dont think that they will ever get out of this mess.
As boring as it was, "The house volume" was a state of consistency, not wild mood and moral swings and flippant goals that are achieved without effort or planning
Sadly they still got enough zealots to keep going. As controversial as V8 has been, the impact of the controversy hasn't been as big as V5's, where it was big enough to make even the writers admit that they fucked up (only for them to pretend that they listened and improved). Even some zealots admitted V5 has been a fuckup (then again back then they weren't as stubborn either).
And they're only going to sink lower.
wait what happened in v5 again?
@@iwannaseehowlongyoucanmakethis literally nothing
I'd like to take this moment to remind everyone that a lot of the Problems that happened in the show are directly team RWBY's fault.
The Godzilla grim showing up? Their fault.
The forces of good not trusting each other? Their fault.
Salem getting the relics? Their fault.
The deaths of the countless innocents civilians and Atlas Soldiers? Their fault. (Due to preventing Iornwoods plan without presenting one of their own.)
Oh, and the deaths of countless more civilians that are going to happen because they sent them to a desert nation KNOWN for being wild and dangerous? Their fault.
I'm certain I missed more than a few things, but I think I made my point.
Yeah but the writer's will make it seem that it wasn't their fault which really just hurts so bad
I trust these crdl then rwby at this point
Oh, what about the whole illegal disruption of train lines and supplies… which delayed and now tarnished the Amity tower plan and now they have to use the staff to fucking bolt of there?
Or how they also broke Ironwood’s sanity and patiences, turning him… probably just briefly mad in volume 8 but… the writers probably made him permanently evil
What about…. Causing public panic, unrest and general uneasiness with the whole Salem exist, that their forces is coming to kill them and humanity?
Honestly? I rather trust Evil Richter Belmont to do the choices than these fuckers and he was under heavy influence to be extremely prideful, honor whoring and fight thirsty guy… he even admits that what use is the Shepard (the Belmont against Dracula) if the wolves are all gone (humanity being able to survive without them)
They really are better antagonists than the actual baddies
Also Qrow getting poisoned is entirely Ruby’s fault, and they have the audacity to have her say she isn’t “gung ho” anymore.
27:36 In regard to Yang, I think I recognize what they were doing with her character - because I fell into the same hole while developing my own characters.
Essentially, they think that by having Yang act rude and abrasive, they're making her cool and badass; the strong, independent woman that stands up to authority and doesn't let anyone boss her around.
The problem is that the 'authority' she's standing up to don't deserve her scorn. As you have pointed out, Qrow, Ozpin and Ironwood are all trying their best to be reasonable (or at least Ironwood was until the writer's made him snap). So, as a result, what should be Yang seeming cool just makes her come across as bratty and annoying.
The only time this could have worked was when Yang started mouthing off to Salem; the actual villain. But by that point, Yang had spent so long mouthing off to the wrong people, that I personally was rooting for Salem to shut Yang up (which she did eventually do with her Grimm arms, thankfully).
If we're going to have a rebel character who stands up to authority, we need to make sure that said authority deserves to get stood up to. A hero is only as good as their villain after all, and when the 'villain' is really just someone trying to do their job, it becomes very hard to see the 'hero' as very heroic.
Yeah there’s quite a few pieces of work where a character who is meant to be “cool” or “badass” simply comes off as a massive jerk.
Salem shutting Yang up made her more noble than Team RWBY for me XD Yang's so much better when she doesn't talk. She should learn from Neo's example.
And you're very right. A big problem with "Edgy Rebels" in fiction these days is the authority they oppose just doesn't seem to warrant their petty scorn. It's less funny and more bratty.
I kind of see Yang as CRWBY poorly attempting to create a Buffy type of character. In Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the titular character is also a rebellious teenager who tends to mouth off to authorities. But the thing is, she has does it in different degrees depending on the authority and her relationships with them. Giles, who serves as her Watcher and mentor figure, is an authority figure. Her mother is an authority figure. Angel, while not authority figure in the same sense, has centuries of experience and is an expert on various subjects. She gives them crap sometimes, but it's pretty much always the kind of playful ribbing that you give a friend/family member. She rarely gives them a hard time in serious moments, and not only listens to their advice, but will even seek that advice out when she needs it.
On the other hand, you have authority figures like the Watcher's Council. People who constantly try to control her and treat her like a pawn, rather than treating her as a person, and who seem to think they're the end-all, be-all authority on the supernatural world. When she comes into conflict with them, you can tell a clear difference between how she mouths off to them and how she takes jabs at Giles. Not just because they're a group with authority, but because they're an authority that has proven highly ineffective and disrespectful to her and her friends/allies. As she puts it later when she finally gets tired of their nonsense and lays out how she honestly needs them far less than they need her, "You're Watchers. Without a Slayer, you're pretty much just watching Masterpiece Theater."
Buffy is a cocky, rebellious character who revels in mouthing off to authority, but she doesn't *blindly* do so. She has a great deal of respect for people and organizations in positions of authority when that authority is wielded responsibly and competently. That's where Yang's problem comes in: As you said, she just acts rude and abrasive to *any* kind of authority, no matter who they are, what they're doing, or what their relationships are, which makes her seem less "cool rebel fighting The Man" and more "clueless contrarian fighting whoever is there to fight with."
TL;DR Version: Yang is that person who films themselves screaming like a banshee at a Starbucks barista about saying "Happy Holidays" while thinking that it makes them look cool and brave for standing up to the evil corporation that's waging a war on Christmas, when all it really does is make them seem like an asshole yelling at a barista that's just trying to get people their coffee.
It really says something when they even admitted through commentary in vol.7 that Ironwood being a complexed character was a complete accident only to be made worse the moment vol.8 starts.
I especially hated every route they took to demonize him for the sake of validating team RWBY’s actions. The true kicker was despite Ruby’s constantly saying they’re all on the same side, she sure didn’t hesitate to denounce Ironwood on broadcast stating he couldn’t trusted even when they flat out lied to his face from the beginning.
Denouncing him seemed like a stupid thing to do. Ironwood wasn't the enemy, Salem was. It felt petty of them to try and turn the other kingdoms against him. Also, Ironwood is a general, I believe a part of the council. I can't imagine the kingdoms taking Ruby's side.
@@LonelyStar04 One of the many problems I had with Ruby's 'plan' was that she hinged on people believing on what she said. Like let's take a spot in a citizen's shoe: You don't know who this girl is and she's telling you all these fantastical tales.
They demonized him and invalidated his argument long before he shot Councillor Sleet. And they did it indirectly.
How?
Ironwood's whole reason for an IMMEDIATE evac to the heavens was because the Atlas army, Specialists, Navy and other forces were exhausted and depleted from the Mantle evacuation, which means that the Grimm would have even more of an advantage than they'd already have with their endlessly replenishing numbers. Ironwood advocated retreat to try and buy time to prepare their combat forces to better fight the Grimm.
So what did CRWBY do? They had Salem wait around for about...a day, maybe two, before attacking.
And I was just sitting there thinking why are you waiting, bitch? Just ZERG RUSH the damn place! Stop waiting and have at it!
Shields bothering you? Have your whale vomit Grimm sludge onto it to break through, or just RAM the bloody shields for fuck's sake! Considering that Monstra is so tough that it's apparently invulnerable from the outside and was only brought down by a magical NUKE going off from INSIDE it, I'm fairly confident it could just *charge* through Atlas' shields with no real danger.
But instead she just sits on her ass, giving the Atlas army a whole day to prepare, rest and rearm, thus retroactively invalidating IW's primary reason for leaving and making him look dumb for suggesting it. This is despite the fact that he had no way of knowing that Salem would make the dumb decision to wait that she made, and was instead thinking that she'd do the obvious and smart thing by Zerg rushing Atlas RIGHT when she showed up, while they were still weak and underprepared.
@@jacksimpson8529 wow that’s terrible.
@@btrando1 most people would either write her off as a liar or a conspiracy nut.
I really like this, especially as someone who used to have high hopes for the show. So far the only thing I really disagree with you on is how you said that the show handles a lot of difficult topics, and only because I don't think the show actually handles them at all. It invokes them, rarely says anything of value, and actively attempts to sweep them away as quickly as they're brought up. I don't think they're handled at all, and that's even more sad to me.
Agreed 100% and that’s been an issue since the earliest volumes, it was even hinted at in the trailers. Weiss’ trailer and the song she sings hints at the childhood abuse from her father. Blake’s is overt with her terrorist activities that she’s running away from. Yang’s subtly points out that she’s been abandoned by her mother, who she’s actively looking for. Then you get into the first 3 volumes.
Weiss’ overt and ignorant prejudices (elitist, racist, perfectionist, ageist) whenever she clashes with Ruby and Blake for various reasons are the first difficult issues that are mostly brushed over.
Even though she makes peace with Ruby, her ‘apologies’ come across as begrudging to me. She never clearly owns up to her part from when she waved Dust in Ruby’s face and it was accidentally detonated by Ruby’s sneeze. For someone who clearly has the highest proficiency with Dust usage among the team, she was just as reckless with it around others when SHE should’ve known better from the start.
And I can’t recall if she ever outright apologized for calling Ruby a brat (several times in fact) when at times she was more immature than Ruby aka the youngest member of the team. She openly stated that having someone 2 years her junior as her team leader was an insult and that she deserved better. That obviously Ozpin made a mistake when making Ruby the team leader, as though she knew better than the headmaster did, in all her teenaged arrogance. Ridiculous.
Weiss only changed her tune after Prof. Port called her out on it to her face. And though I appreciate that, it just felt like a spoiled brat correcting misbehavior. Sure, it displayed that she CAN be reasoned with and she isn’t so close-minded that she can’t handle criticism (unlike her dirtbag dad). But it would’ve been much more impactful if she matured enough on her own to realize how unfair she’s been to Ruby.
Like if over a period of time constantly working with Ruby during team assignments she comes to realize how she’s acting similarly to toxic Jacques and that’s her ‘oh shit’ moment where she consciously starts to work on changing for the better. But there’s nothing like that, no real WORK to make things right. It’s just a single episode hand-wave and then moving on to the next topic.
For the same reasons, her “I don’t care” line was so egregious to me because the hefty baggage between Blake and her was basically swept away, when BOTH of them needed group therapy to work past those same issues and work as a proper unit. The forgiveness on both ends wasn’t actively worked towards and the peace that came from “burying the hatchet” was totally unearned. No one just gets over deeply ingrained shitty mentality and bad habits that easily. There needs to be consistent and conscientious effort put into breaking out of those terrible molds that both Blake and Weiss started in to get to the level of teamwork that they achieved by volume 3.
Don’t misunderstand, I love Weiss. She had one of the best development arcs in the first 3 volumes out of teams RWBY and JNPR (which really wasn’t saying much tbh). She could’ve been one of the most compelling characters too if they just kept at it, exploring serious world building topics through the microcosm of Weiss growing into her own person free of Jacques’ mental conditioning and interacting with her friends. She was the heiress of the largest corporation on the planet.
Having her most negative traits properly and healthily addressed through her maturation into Nice Weiss (as she gets rightfully called out on her bad behaviors so she can understand not only why they’re wrong but also how to overcome them) would by proxy bring focus on the larger problems of Remnant like the SDC’s “questionable business practices” and discriminatory human supremacy over the oppressed Faunus and impoverished people. But that eventually took a backseat to other more ‘lucrative’ dramas and tropes. They turned her into a basic tsundere for the show.
Then there’s Blake’s inability to face her demons and the consequences of her actions are at least somewhat considered in later volumes when she comes back from running away after Yang’s dismemberment, but even that is more or less swept under the rug given the poor execution. First, she practically implied that she worried Yang was exactly like Adam after her DQ from the tournament for ‘breaking’ Mercury’s leg rather than trusting that BOTH Yang and Weiss told Blake that Yang wasn’t cruel like that. She’d been partnered to Yang for MONTHS by then to know the differences between her and Adam. Yang even told her about being abandoned by her mother and Yang never seemed to be (understandably) angry over it, just sadly curious.
Blake knows Weiss never holds back her own opinions (even when they’re wrong) so if Weiss thought Yang was actually guilty she would’ve been the first to throw Yang under the bus. So the fact that she didn’t should be an indication that Yang had a character witness that she wasn’t lying. So if she couldn’t trust Ruby’s belief in her big sister she could’ve trusted Weiss’ assessment. But she didn’t. And when shit hit the fan, she never really apologized for fearing and nearly giving up on her own partner (which is an early theme with her based on her trailer).
Blake was all too willing to run away at the first sign of trouble. The train mission with Adam, the blow-up with Weiss, and worst of all is fleeing after Yang gets her dominant arm cut off trying to defend Blake (who didn’t do the same when roles were reversed earlier in the tournament). It’s even more damning because once she was found by her team shortly after running away from the Weiss argument, Weiss got Blake to promise that she would come to her TEAM when there’s a problem. Yet, when the most difficult thing the team has had to face up to that point happens, she’s in the wind running back home to her parents rather than keeping her word. And she does so knowing that the threat of Adam is still out there and ever-present but doesn’t bring that up to her parents until it practically kicked in their door. So all that so-called development of Blake at Beacon with her team was either a farce to begin with or wasted. Then it was glossed over later on after her predictable return to her team.
Yang’s abandonment issues was clearly ignored in favor of inconsistent pacing and storytelling. She seeks out Raven, rather easily no less, not to fulfill her personal quest for answers (which was her main motivation for becoming a huntress in the first place, so is the main core of her character arc) but to hitch a ride on the Raven Express to reach Qrow, who’s with Ruby. And when Raven offers those answers, Yang tells her in no uncertain terms that she’s not having it, just get her to Ruby. So ignoring the fundamental drive of a character is not a problem?
Lastly, there’s the fact that Jaune sneaks his way into a school to train kids how to fight and kill demons without any prior knowledge or experience to make him qualified to even be there. On one hand there’s the shitty vetting process to contend with that implies those who’re in charge of admissions are carelessly incompetent. And on the other is the sheer disregard for safety at play here.
Glynda says that Jaune isn’t ready to be at Beacon despite what his ‘transcripts’ implies, suggesting she’s suspicious of his qualifications (or lack thereof). When she brings it up to Ozpin (during the life-threatening entry exam), he never bothered to respond. The man couldn’t have cared less that a boy with no clue what AURA even was at that point, was participating in a life-or-death test in a Grimm-infested forest. That’s child endangerment right there, and it’s a persistent theme throughout the show.
Plus, Jaune’s total lack of preparedness could’ve gotten those he worked with killed if they weren’t actually capable of facing giant ass Grimm from the start. They let a liability just walk into a combat school with zero forethought to his and others’ safety despite being in charge of that very thing (for all kingdoms in fact). There’s no accountability for the adults (Ozpin especially) about that and it’s hardly ever hashed out even when they learn that Ozpin never admitted Salem’s immortality to them but let them all blindly volunteer to fight in his shadow war, Remnant’s cultural acceptance of glorifying the use of child-soldiers be damned.
And while the list goes on, the common denominator here is that like you said: overall, again and again, serious subjects get outright overlooked and blatantly ignored. It’s no wonder why this show is so heavily criticized. If it’s meant to be taken seriously then it should face serious scrutiny.
Sorry for the long-winded rant but this is one of the issues that ruined RWBY in my opinion and I had lots to say about it.
@@FiTzYsAsHoWsToPa Weiss’s conflicts and how they’re handled feels like something out of a CW show: brought up and over the course of (at most) few episodes dealt with never to be brought up again.
@@thomasraines1396 Exactly. They do things more for shock value than any real substance, even if it completely disregards things like a real fleshed out plot and actual character development. They’ll even retcon something in a way that totally contradicts what was done before then. 🤦🏾♀️
@@FiTzYsAsHoWsToPa yep, in Volume 7 Weiss apologizes for how her family has treated the Faunus like crap and her “complacency in it” as if she wasn’t actively a racist, even all the way back in Volume 2 they made it out to be her family’s problem not hers.
@@thomasraines1396 warning: another long rant incoming 😆
I agree with you that, bare minimum, she also needs to apologize for her own actions from earlier in the show. That would at least sort of address her bs from the beginning volumes and some minimal character growth for her. But of course RT doesn’t do even that. They just have Weiss seemingly pass ALL the blame onto her family, which when I think about it contradicts the sort of character they were angling for her to be based on the first 3 volumes.
She outright said that her goal was to take control of the SDC from her father so she could turn it back into what it was like when her grandfather ran it. So it’s implied that she knew Jacques was ruining the company with how he ran things and her life goal was to fix it. That’s basically taking responsibility for problems she didn’t directly cause herself. This shows that she sees something wrong and wants to correct it, even when it’s currently beyond her control. But when the time comes to take accountability for her own wrongs, she basically passes the buck.
Quite literally that’s RT contradicting their earlier work. Makes me wonder which is the real Weiss. Is it the hardworking misguided girl with a chip on her shoulder seeking to restore honor to her family’s name, prove there’s more to her than just her last name, and help to right the wrongs in the world? Or is it some Tsundere providing lip service to the audience and does no real work towards said life goals? RT has to stop showing characters being one way but then have them do complete 180s in a span of one volume.
Now, I’m trying to be fair here. Weiss was taught to be a bigot by her father who’s the worst bigot of the show (in so many ways) and before going to Beacon he completely ran her entire life. Weiss was basically an extension of Jacques. At the start of the show, she’s such a dislikable person mainly because of his influence on her.
He told her how she needed to act, what kind of people are ‘acceptable’ for her to be around, and what he expected of her performance at school. Jacques mentally conditioned Weiss to view the world HIS way. He was essentially her puppet master.
But at the same time, she’s meant to be a rebel. Monty even said that the way she styles her hair is part of her rejecting Jacques’ standards for perfection. It’s not perfectly symmetrical. And her attending Beacon after defeating that armor was her chance to really break away from his control over her life, kinda as the first (of many) big ‘screw you’ to him. So basically she was technically already actively trying to change herself.
And I get it that no one changes overnight (despite what RT would have people believe). That’s why her racism is so bad in the beginning. People need to see where she’s starting from in order to understand how she’s growing. But to start a character out as someone who is actually working on improving themselves (RT literally TELLS watchers this in the first 2 volumes) and then not even give any solid PROOF that she’s really changing or, worse, contradict it is the height of bad writing. It was a blink and you missed it face turn and that’s too much for my suspension of disbelief.
RT can’t expect the audience to find her “I don’t care” line believable when earlier in that same episode she was openly racist against the Faunus and had a huge argument with an ex-White Fang Faunus. Tbh, it would’ve been more believable if Weiss went to Ozpin to get Blake thrown out of Beacon (based on her apparent racism) since in her mind the White Fang are scum that keep attacking her family. Or, if that didn’t work, tried to get herself transferred to a different team because being on a team with a secret Faunus is too much for her racism to deal with.
At the very least, she should’ve been terrified of Blake once it came out that she was a former member of the terrorist organization, not deciding that after less than a day of looking for her Weiss is ok with it because Blake said she quit. Yet instead we’re given that “I don’t care” scene in volume 2 and the “I apologize for everyone else’s crap but not mine” bit in volume 7. Proof that RT doesn’t really care about the show’s subject matter or its characters beyond entertaining their customers.
Where’s the actual effort in changing her racist mentality? It’s not like Weiss is allergic to constructive criticism, hard work, and consistent effort. That’s literally one of her main character traits (she puts the most work in on the team when it comes to studying). I was really looking forward to watching her mature similar to how Zuko did in AtLA. She definitely had the potential for it; sadly, it got wasted.
But RT doesn’t care about these things. They just want to have people believe that life in a harsh world like Remnant is actually that simple and it’s easy to get over things. That it’s ok to think hard topics like racism and terrorism can be willed away if you ignore it enough. They gloss over the hard parts and expect a pass. 👎🏾
It’s why imo the most compelling characters (the ones that bring up these topics to begin with) in the show always either get the least amount of screen time (Pyrrha, Raven, etc.) or have their characterizations butchered (Ironwood, Weiss, etc.) in favor of pushing a trash narrative and really bad storytelling. It’s insulting to my intelligence to expect me accept that. If they didn’t really want to work on these subjects then they never should’ve been brought up in the first place.
The series might’ve been better off that way because at least RT could’ve stuck with it being a kiddie show. 😩
I'm so glad there's such a comprehensive breakdown of how my absolute favorite character was cruelly, mercilessly assassinated right before our eyes.
He's effectively Adam 2.0. Rather than last minute changes behind the scenes post Monty's death was vastly different from how he was set up to how he was officially introduced, we just get to see the assassination real time.
RWBY Writing Room Rules
1. Team RWBY is always right
2. Only the current volume is canon
3. Nuance doesn't matter
4. Character and death are fluid
5. Make sure someone/something hurts Oscar at some point during the volume.
6. Force in humour
7. Mention stuff that should be stated in canon in an interview.
8. Only thirteen 20-minute episodes. No more, always less.
9: retcons.
10. We are right, anyone who doesn't agree with us is wrong.
As someone with autism, it feels really nice to hear you talk about how RWBY handled it's nerodivergent characters. I've always felt uncomfortable wih it since volume four and the characters ignoring Penny's death. I've never really felt confident enough to share my thoughts about, but seeing someone finally adress it makes me really happy. Thank you.
It’s not like anyone aside from Ruby had a relationship with Penny.
It will be interesting to to see how the writers deal with the team learning of Penny's (2nd) death.
Not to mention that Jaune had a hand in it.
@@DocMicrowave
I fear that they not going to make it happen...
@@KritoSkywaker Not going to make what happen?
The writers showing the team heart broken and how they deal with it?
Or Ruby's or Jaune reaction?
The story is going to be rushed. We'll have to see how much time the writers devote to showing this. I am guess not much.
I also wonder if they will see her body on the island, or anyone else who fell for that matter. That may further complicate matters, feelings.
Of course that might not happen either as the writers may come up with an excuse as to why they are the only ones on the island. Saves time and animation resources.
@@thomasraines1396 True, but they were all friends. Yang seemed to acknowledge Penny's loss back in 3x12.
Of course, that was then, this is now. Yang being hurt may take up more of the team's attention.
Correction. Take up more of Blake's attention actually.
'It's not like Ruby or Weiss had a relationship with Yang.' ;)
Team RWBY: complains about saving people during a grimm invasion
Me: Ladies, that's literally your job!
Team RWBY definitely suffers from perfect protagonist syndrome
Edit: if there are any new writers in the audience who are insecure about their work, remember that four writers who work for a large and well to do company, with several other works under their belts, were unable to make a major character's turn to villainy convincing
Isn’t it Ruby’s whole goal is to be a huntress? This should be her opportunity to prove that.
@@darthkai3621 Exactly, it's so ironic. She says in the third episode of the show that she wants to be a huntress so she can be like the heroes from her old story books, which, side note, I always thought was a strange motivation, like something a child would say, it reminds me of when I was seven and told my parents I wanted to be a movie star because...I liked Disney movies
@@selena44842 I get it and I kinda find it endearing, until I realized she basically does nothing to achieve it, which gets her ass kicked in volume 5, and then in the past 3 volumes, she actively goes against her goals.
@@darthkai3621 True, after season 4 the characters seem to forget their motivations, ruby doesn't strive to become a better leader and huntress, Yang doesn't want to find out why her mom left, Blake doesn't seem to care about faunus equality. My head canon is the tea in Remnant makes people dumber and more forgetful. It's strange how basically every volume since volume 4 has a scene where the characters sit around and just drink tea, I have to wonder if it's an inside joke, and after volume 8 I never want to see the characters drink tea ever again
@@selena44842 my head cannon is that they don’t really care about their goals on the inside. But rather, they’re just trying to lie, cheat, and steal their way all while looking innocent. Well, that or they’re Salem’s sleeper agents
Harsh? No Twiins, you were anything BUT harsh. You NEEDED to say these things. You could not sit idly by and just be silent about this. And your anger over what should have been improvement that ended up being squandered is justified. Don’t apologize for being fair and right.
Exactly my point Rwby has become and forgive me for saying this the "Family Guy" of web animation and not a good representation of Family Guy
agreed
I agree with this 100%. Die hard RWBY fans are gonna' baby the hell out of the RWBY writers because they eat up anything they put out. But Twiins clearly cares about not just the show, but actual GOOD writing. Her anger is completely justified, especially if the writing is so infuriatingly asinine and dumb. Honestly, I felt as though she wasn't harsh ENOUGH. XP
@@christscrackers647 The RWBY writers are the literary equivalent of abusers and drug dealers.
@@2097Pyros Considering how they treat their animators, I'm inclined to agree and have distaste for them.
*Gives Ironwood's soul a hug*
"It's ok my friend goes rest in Elysium with the true heroes of life."
*Opens portal to the underworld where Pyrha is waiting with a smile*
Yes. YES to ALL of this.
They can escape all the stupidity and suffering.
Speaking of the underworld... if there is a hell on remnant Penny is probably in it. Why? Well the god of light hates it if anyone but him creates life... so he does this.
Or at least that's my theory
"But they're just kids?" They're fully trained huntsmen, like all the fully trained huntsmen who've just graduated.
I want to love this show, but it makes it so hard.
Also their not even kids their all teenagers that are approaching adulthood what are they smoking how is an 18 to 19 year old considered child age?
@@nyhtfall1969 young adult, yeah, but not a child.
I thought the whole point of Season 3 was that since The Fall of Beacon, childhood is essentially cancelled. Everywhere in the world just became a much more shit place to live and if you can't handle it, you're going to die. Ozpin in Season 2 even suggested that the moment the hunters graduated, innocence was going to go right out the window. It's easy to be heroic in a moment of idealism, but BEING a hero and a defender as your day-to-day occupation is going to have it's own effects on you over time. The fact that early seasons acknowledge this when later seasons either ignore it or outright condemn it is just ridiculous.
@@Avengedtenfold ikr
@@Avengedtenfold it’s even weirder how Ruby herself acknowledges pretty early on that life isn’t like a fairytale, so it’s strange how they make her obsessively want to save everyone despite it clearly not being a realistic action or outcome.
Honestly, Ironwood's earlier characterization is basically an accident, especially S7. There was even a thread about it on the critics reddit.
And as far as the whole utilitarian thing, I also saw a comparison between rwby and Gurren Lagann. Rossiu did a similar thing with trying to only save a handful of people and even put Simon on death row just to appease everyone once everything went to shit. After everything was over, Simon forgives Rossiu and thanks him for being the one to make those hard decisions because he understood what needed to be done even if he didn't necessarily agree with it.
Interesting, I saw the similarities between Ironwood and Rossiu as well.
If it's an accident than it just cements more how incompetent Kerry is as a writer.
@@JeffCJY Why Kerry specifically?
All the Ironwood stuff Kerry wrote were some of Ironwood’s best scenes.
@@cbhensoncbhenson5515 Cause he is head writer. I would blame Miles but he already quit.
@@JeffCJY Miles still writes for the show. He’s just working on contract now rather than working directly under RT.
Penny didn't want Jaune to heal her, she wanted to die. She hoped that if she died this time, it would stick, and the writers wouldn't drag her soul kicking and screaming to be forced back into this Hell.
Imagine how grim and tragic that would be if it were in the story. "No. Just...let me go. I don't want to cross over again."
She knew she was better off dead.
I see that scene as penny going
Penny: no jaune i want out of this stupid show i can't take it anymore i liked it better when i was dead keep me dead
So I searched up the "Hero" song and one thing I found interesting is how the lyrics in said song actually kind of directly responds to the direction that the show is going in terms of Ironwood
with lines like "I will fight for you no matter how I am despised, portrayed as cruel and heartless" and "What if it's true as they say, that I don't have a heart, that I'm more a machine than a man"
It actually made me tear up a bit, not gonna lie.
Exactly Ironwood is perfectly willing to sacrifice his own reputation to keep people alive but no simply because he knows he can’t save everyone he’s hated by the show. Instead we’re meant to side with the morons who put thousands of people in the middle of a fucking desert with no supplies or any idea how far they are away from civilization also surrounded by monsters, also all of those people are accustomed to the cold of Atlas, they just got all plopped in the middle of a desert.
@@thomasraines1396
Indeed. It’s honestly fucking idiotic.
@@RickyUzumaki993 it is.
@@thomasraines1396
I am honestly so sick of canon RWBY at this point. Are you, Thomas?
I responded.
@@RickyUzumaki993 I wouldn’t say I’m sick of it, I think me coming into the show so late and not having to wait for all the stupidity to unfold instead being able to watch all of it, makes it (only slightly) more bearable.
Watching that last part with Glenda telling Ironwood to trust people more, while showing how that trust ultimately got him killed, and scrolling down to see "Trust Love huh?" really gave me a gut punch of emotion.
Yeah. And that last part brought a morbid realization to me. Ironwood did exactly that what Glynda said about trust. And what did it brought him? His 'allies' that he thought he can trust the most, lied and turned against him. Even Winter, who been trusted the most.
And events happen afterward until ultimately got him killed and Atlas and Mantle destroyed.
'Wtf' after I saw that.
@@klemenhudobreznik3421 All in Volume 7 he trusted.
Yeah, it's ironic how it was Glenda's students that destroyed his attempt at trusting others.
I legit cried at that part.
@@klemenhudobreznik3421
Ozpin lied to everyone in his inner circle and kept vital information which would have influence the decisions of everyone in it.
James had a good reason to not trust ozpin as ozpin didn't believe in anyone which led to James believing that Salem is someone who can be beaten through enough force and can be killed.
Although James border decision did isolate atlas that wasn't a bad thing had he opened his borders Lionheart who was a traitor could have sent Salem's spies there with ease which ment he was right to not trust in the other kingdoms as well.
"This is too hard". I think you summed up RT's entire problem inadvertently. They keep trying to tell these grand world-shattering Avatar/Lord of the Rings high fantasy stories, but those stories require metric fuckloads of effort to do and take a long long time. Last Airbender was conceived in 2001 and didn't air until 2005 and don't get me started on Tolkien's ludicrous attention to detail.
The emotions of the show are writing checks the lore and worldbuilding cant cash.
That's been RWBY problem since day one. The type of story that RWBY wanted to be wasn't possible with it's current resources. Not to mention Miles and Kerry are comedic based writers not dramatic ones, they're not the type to pay attention to every little detail and it shows.
@@brandonontama2415
RWBY tries to be Avatar, when it should have been Samurai Jack.
@@jp4951 Agreed.
They also thrwe most of Monty's future plans into the garbage after his death.
17:00 I guessed Ren; caught me sleeping with that 7/10character split. Well played
RWBY is based on fundamental misunderstandings of their own characters: the Tin Man was defined by having a heart, the Lion was brave, the Scarecrow was smart. RWBY’s versions aren’t characters, these are caricatures, which the writers specifically commented on wanting to get away from as far back as V2’s commentary (Jaune isn’t just a goofball, he wants to be a hero; Pyrrha is the best, but she’s lonely for it).
Something that bothered me as soon as the team arrived in Atlas was the lack of calling back to Ironwood’s past actions to remind the audience of who he is. And I don’t mean in an evil way. He sends Yang her new arm. “I like the personal touch you added. Don’t worry; in time, you grow into it.” I remember how important it felt in V3 when it was revealed how extensive Ironwood’s prosthetics were. It didn’t seem to me that he had lost more of his humanity; it seemed like he had anted up in the fight against the Grimm. Ironwood was the first major character to be equipped with Atlas prosthetics (I don’t specifically count Penny in this example because she was built from scratch; I do not discount her as a person, in fact, her story parallels some of my favorites in fiction, like CHAS from Roughnecks or Data from TNG), so it made it seem like “the world beyond Veil is dangerous. Ironwood has been there.”
That’s why he’s so anxious about the threat he’s been fighting getting bigger and badder, and now that it’s in Veil, we seem him in his element. While the kids and civilians are afraid, Ironwood goes to work, protecting people, assembling a reaction force of the students and Qrow and Glinda once he can find them. Even with his army being hacked, he is the one to make moves to get the situation under control. He wasn’t inhuman; he was a general in a world of wannabe knights and heroes, he was battle-hardened. He isn’t wearing armor and cosplay; he has metal prosthetics and a uniform. You can’t switch to an “anti-military” message after showing that military being an effective peacekeeping force and when fighting a genuinely inhuman enemy. The show got so lost in Salem’s backstory and her Council that they forgot that, in their absence/for most of the show, the primary threat has been the Grimm. Torchwick was “first bad guy” for Ruby, the White Fang are Blake and Weiss problems; the Grimm have torched cities, orphaned Ren and Nora, killed Ruby’s mom. The show has been bad at handling the White Fang storyline; this isn’t news. But to try for the “military leadership is tyranny” angle at this stage just rings so hollow, when the antagonist of that arc is “monsters born from the literal god of destruction who feed on fear and hate”. I agree; generals shouldn’t be in charge. But we went to fantasy land, which has four kingdoms. Why are kings bad by default now? The black/white story of kids fight monsters is fine; so is a morally complex chess game of politics and betrayal. But this show can’t be both simultaneously.
Even if Ironwood is turning villain, he shouldn’t be so cold about it; it should feel tragic. He should be openly crying. He loves his home; he should be watching the bomb fly to Mantle with tears in his eyes because he believes that he’s failed to protect his people, but this is all he can do to save the world. Or better yet, have him just be stubborn. Ruby and the gang suggest evacuating to Vacuo (for no reason, sure, but, we gotta put all four kingdoms in the show somehow, right?) and Ironwood can be such a paranoid control freak that he doesn’t trust his people to the difficult terrain, the harsh climate, the lack of a central point to defend. He’s a king in a losing war afraid to leave his castle, and he’s getting tunnel vision, so maybe he starts conscripting civilians into the fight, connecting to what we saw with FNKI, or just backs into the corner of hiding in the subway; while RWBY are evacuating the city via the staff, he leads a last stand against the army of Grimm the writers forgot, and when a doorway appears, he sends his soldiers through, but holds his ground as his tin soldiers fall, so while he may have been losing his way, in the end he gets to die heroically, albeit tragically, now seeing that the kids made good on their promise to find a better way to save his people, even if he ends up dying for his lack of faith.
As a neurodivergent veteran, I watch shows like this for a break from things, so it makes me feel aggravated when the show goes HAM in trying to be like other shows, while losing the things I liked about it to begin with (solid character design, cool fights). But when the show’s creators revel in their ignorance, while vilifying characters like me, it does what so many BMBLB shippers were crying out about; it makes me feel like an enemy. I loved this show since the RED trailer, I introduced my sister to it, bought her merch for it, we made OC’s for it. Now I feel like Ironwood: betrayed.
Thank you, Twiins, for taking the time to be actively and effectively critical of this show. Your observations are poignant, your jokes are fun, your commentary is substantial. And thank you for sticking your feet back into the FNDM for this one, because bad writing hurts the show, but bad writing coupled with the active intention of spreading a poorly thought out message can be hurtful to the audience too.
Wonderful points
The whole “they’re just kids” line and bashing of the military would be fine if said military wasn’t by and large why the world wasn’t completely fucked over. It would be like having a anti violence message in Mortal Kombat. Also I’m pretty sure a world like Remnant would have more lax policy on “kids” fighting, sort of like “The Walking Dead” where no not everyone is a fighter but any notions of them not fighting simply because they’re “kids” is pretty much non existent.
also sidenote the tin mans problem wasn't that he had prosthetics he actually liked them overall seeing them as an upgrade his problem was when he changed too much and I believe temporarily became emotionless his problem was temporary I believe the wizard pointed out the flaw in his verbatum "the fact you want your emotions back means they came back on there own "
so the narative plot here should be his panic reaction drugs or a concussion not a lost arm
I completely glossed over the fact that Atlas was probably producing so much useful technology for remnant and now that's gone, like damn.
too busy being in shock over writing decisions to realize, huh?
Honestly the problem I have about Ironwood's heel turn isn't that it happened but how it happened. I had a feeling the guy would turn heel, but I always thought it would be because of his own actions and methods due to how the show teased it. But instead, the show made him the most sympathetic character in the series and had him do everything right regarding the protagonists by giving them his full trust and aid only to have those same protagonists openly lie to him, conceal valuable information, go behind his back and leak valuable information to someone they knew nothing about, etc. The show wanted us to hate Ironwood in V7 and see him as the bad guy, but we ended up seeing him as a guy who wanted to help and was pushed over the edge by both enemies AND friends/allies.
And then in V8 in response to the sympathy Ironwood was getting, the show kicked Ironwood's villanousness to 11 and just made him a gun wielding sociopath that tried to nuke a whole city. And on top of that, to paraphrase EruptionFang, the show justifies the writing of his extreme actions by blaming it on a semblance that is the equivalent to a mental disorder (that was never once mentioned or explicitly alluded to in the show) and they STILL expect us to hate him after knowing that the reason the guy is acting all irrational is because he has what is basically a mental disorder.
Ironwood's heel turn could have been handled sooo much better and they fumbled his character so hard before saying "Fuck it!" and just spiking him into the ground.
And then there's Penny. They basically undermined two of the biggest points in her character arc in just one move by making her human, which is honestly impressive.
Ironwwod seems to suffer from a writing problem new writers are often warned against, what I personally call the "shoot the pet" problem, where a character, usually a villain, ends coming across more nuanced and sympathetic than the writers originally intended, and the audience ends up liking them, sometimes more than the heroes. Instead up taking a step back and thinking up ways they can write the story to work with this new characterization, the author instead forces the old characterization at the audience even if it doesn't make sense, like jamming a square peg into a round hole, and have them preform over the top acts of villainy, like shooting someone's pet, hoping the audience will hate them and root for the heroes instead. Ironwood's actions are so over the top it almost comes across as parody.
“All warfare is Based.” -James Ironwood
Penny turning human was genuinely so, so, so bad, i was genuinely so flabbergasted holy shit
cool sirin pfp btw, her writing godstomps whatever the fuck is happening in v8
@@patd2806 And then they just killed her off.
Fuck this show.
@@lunatic0verlord10 Killing Pyrrha set the new standard for "Women in Refrigerators". Killing Penny the second time almost leapt over that bar. SO PROGRESSIVE.....
Fucking banger of an analysis. Its a shame the show is in the state its in, it could have been amazing. You got nothing to be sorry for, the writers deserve 100% of the critque they get.
It’s so FRUSTRATING how much potential RWBY really has, but the writers keep missing the mark
@@ryanspears9704 FR
It's like the writers took the line, “He is more machine now than man. Twisted and evil" and forgot that at the end of the day, Obi-Wan was wrong. Anakin still had humanity despite all he did and all he had become. He destroyed the emperor in the end along with his own evil for his son. That's not to say that he should be forgiven of all he'd done, but the point is he/his humanity wasn't "destroyed" as Vader proclaimed. A similar lesson could have been done with Ironwood. But nah, he has to be evil cause team RWBY always right!
Difference also is that unlike ironwood, Vader was basically in an Ironman suit.
The whole technology is bad on people thing only works when it’s like The Borg
Vader post-death wasn't immediately forgiven in the EU/legends continuity, it took leia a long time to come to terms with her father being the man who blew her planet up.
Emerald barely did anything to prove herself redeemed and was practically lusting for cinder for half the volume. Her fight with penny had only been like, 4 to 5 hours ago at most and that was just the most recent missdeed done to the "heroes".
Twiins is right they prioritized a mint-haired waifu over ironwood's development making sense.
@@rachelbachman9074 if I recall correctly a similar situation occurs in the Disney cannon as was depicted in like one of the first books they head released to coincide with force awakens
I admit I haven't read alot of disney star wars so i didn't use it as an example and i'm not a fan of the fact that what i do read tends to be retconned. Example: Caleb Dume during order 66
@@rachelbachman9074 yeah....it still amazes me that anyone can criticize the eu anymore for being so disjointed when Disney can’t even keeps its cut down cannon straight
(Another good example is Poe fighting stormtroopers with jet packs in his comic back when that was still a thing)
I’m not a mega RWBY fan, but I really liked Ironwood.
Seeing him fall this way hurts.
Look how they slaughtered my dad.
Salem after her victory : that actually wasn't as hard as i thought.
It really irritates me with how they handled bringing back Penny.
What was the point of constantly reassuring her she's real despite her metal body and that she deserves her own life just to give her a flesh body and kill her almost immediately after? What was the point of her becoming the Winter Maiden instead of Winter just to give her the powers a volume later? It renders it all moot. She might as well have stayed dead instead of wasting time on a character they would end up re-killing.
Also, poor Pietro. He never saw her after she fell from Amity Tower and never knew she was hacked. He probably could've helped with that so she wouldn't have to become human. The "hacked Penny" storyline was such a waste of potential. They made us think it would lead to her fighting her own friends and possibly help her realize the true power of her free will, but all it was was an excuse to abandon her robot body for an inferior human one, making her easier to kill.
It feels like the story went in one giant circle.
It still baffles me how this show manage to revive, I assume, a beloved character, only to kill them off in the very next season. That is writing 101 levels of bad writing, rendering the previous season completely pointless. I feel so bad for the fans who just want the show to be better.
That got me too, they put so much focus on her only for her to die....again...in the lamest and dumbest way possible when she would've definitely survived. It felt like she was just there for nothing more but shock value and didnt really have any type of purpose beyond that we just look at her and say "OMG SHE IS A ROBOT BUT HAS HUMAN EMOTIONS AND IS REAL AHHHH"
Dies
"NOOOO SHE WAS REAL AND EVERYTHING BUT SHE IS DEAD AND CAN NEVER FULLY EXPERIENCE BEING HUMAN BIG SAD, MUSIC EVERYWHERE"
Like what was the point of all that emotional shit?
Was she nothing but a ploy to give emerald a quick ass redemption(which is still complete horseshit in every way possible lmao)
And create tension that at the end of the day was pointless but is gonna be dramatized throughout the series?
@@rexthedinosaur2229 More like Winter’s development. Hazel was the one who died for Emerald’s.
@@mauriceisaac3646 well they did use the "let me save her so i can gain their trust despite all the shit i have done" move so i was morely going off that but you right.
Oooooo long twiins video nice. Glad to see someone else noticed that Ruby apparently expected all the huntsman to like teleport to Atlas despite the ending of V6 being all like oh man Atlas is really hard to get to
Yeah that part was weird. Did she expect them to all appear like it's Avengers Endgame and show up out of nowhere to save the day? Thinking the kingdoms will just come to save the day out of nowhere is ridiculous.
Not to mention that Vacuo needs all its Huntsmen just to survive, Vale is still trying to reclaim Beacon....and Mistral doesn't HAVE Huntsmen anymore. Thanks to Leo.
And Hazel.
Why send help to Atlas/Mantle at all? Ruby told the world that Ironwood was not to be trusted.
He is commander of the most powerful military in the world and you just told the world he is bad.
If anything, the other kingdoms would be recalling all of their huntsmen and military to have on hand to defend their kingdoms in case Ironwood decides to attack.
@@DocMicrowave Yeah they would literally be afraid of what he might do
stuckerfan 256. Yep! So Ruby being disappointed that no one came to help is a little silly.
I would try and give Ruby the benefit of the doubt with excuse that she is a kid and didn't know better.
The problem is, the writers have worked really hard at depicting Ruby as being mostly right and righteous in all she does. Even if it isn't instantly apparent.
While equally going through great lengths showing Ironwood to be the big nasty meanie who does everything wrong.
I am pretty sure they did not intend for the audience to make that assessment. That no one came to help because of what Ruby said in the broadcast.
RT: "We wanted to make Ironwood's descent believable"
Me: "Then why did you make him so nice, likeable, and trustworthy?"
There's a pattern with these deaths.
Basically if you're a redhead, a male that's not a main character, or a villain that isn't Cinder Fall or Neo, you're on the chopping block for dying off at some point.
Adam Taurus hits all those patterns.
@@MisteRRYouTuby indeed
The character also has the unfortunate potential to be character assassinated.
@@thomasraines1396 Again, Adam, but also Roman Torchwick (who among these three has it the most poetically done to him).
@@thomasraines1396 At this point, it isnt even Character Assassination, its Character Massacre.
Adam and ironwood got did completely dirty.
"Look how they massacred my boy, the video essay"
Seriously one of your best videos to date. Anyway have a great day
I don't think I'll get over how hypocritical team RWBY's been with lying and general handling of sensitive information in volumes 7 and 8. They just shat on everything they preached about in vol 6, and put countless lives in more danger than they already were because of their paradoxical behavior. Ironwood wasn't perfect, sure, but he at least tried to do his best with what he was given and made an attempt at trust.
All that talk of trust and working together was just for the heroes to pat themselves on the back, I guess.
Also, Ironwood didn’t turn against RWBY for hiding Salem’s immortality from him. He was pretty understanding of their reason for hesitating.
He turned against them because Yang and Blake betrayed him by giving state secrets to a know terrorist (who somehow was allowed to run for election?)
And since we’re pointing out hypocrisy, Yang then blamed Ruby and her leadership for Ironwood turning against them, when it was _her_ fault.
Ruby is nothing but a liar and a cheater.
@@darthkai3621 Which sucks doubly because 1) Her entire character was supposed to be how evil could be defeated by a "Simple, more HONEST soul" since V1 and 2) It completely derails any faith we could've had in Ozpin's already terrible decision making and validates Weiss' complaints in V1 that Ruby is not fit to lead and has never proven herself throughout eight seasons.
@@randomcenturion7264 Indeed. It’s embarrassing to say that Ruby used to be my waifu
@@darthkai3621 We all make strange choices we regret XD
Ironwood’s Job was to protect his kingdom and it’s people, whatever the cost. So him wanting to save those he can was a smart decision which he wouldn’t need to do if rwby had just told him the truth! Sometimes some people have to make the hard call.
“Our duty, as soldiers, is to protect humanity. Whatever the cost."
Exactly.
Well, on the subject of Halo quotes, how about some scenes about cutting your losses?
Some Halo 3 dialogue -
*Commander Keyes* "The Flood. It's spreading all over the city."
*Admiral Hood* "How do we contain it?"
*Commander Keyes* "Find the crashed flood ship, overload its engine core. We either destroy the city, or risk losing the entire planet."
*Admiral Hood* _sigh_ "Do it."
Some Halo:Reach dialogue -
_6-Echo-2 ship gets shot down_
*Falcon pilot* "Oh my God!"
*6-Echo-2 pilot* "Mayday! Mayday!
*Fox Actual* "6-Echo-2, can you maintain altitude?"
*6-Echo-2 pilot* "Negative! We're going down!"
*Falcon pilot* "Son of a bit--! We can't watch this."
*Dispatch* "Fox Actual, should we send search and rescue birds?"
*Fox Actual* "Negative, Dispatch. _sigh_ No point."
@@konstellashon1364something else from Halo 3 when talking about the emergence of The Flood:
*Lord Hood* “And you Shipmaster just glassed half a continent!”
*Rtas Vandum* “One single Flood spore can destroy a species. Were it not for the Arbiter's counsel, I would have glassed your entire planet!"
Even The Marvels movie had a scene of 'we can't save everyone' in it.
if V9 really is somehow gonna be the heroes talking to some dead people, I would absolutely love it for Ironwood to confront Ruby and be like "I was right, I have no regrets, and you need to learn to be a better leader by trusting others and being open." It would be interesting to see Ruby learn a lesson in her short life that has taken Ozpin thousands of years to learn just now. I really want to see Ironwood from beyond the grave going "hey what the fuck was that" and holding the team accountable for deciding they were the only ones capable of leading with no regard for what others may want
You just see Ironwood’s ghost giving them all the finger.
Oh I would love that but you seen RoosterTeeth are nothing more than arrogant shits at least the writing staff is there's no gray morals or ethics all of it is just very clear-cut black-and-white if you're not on Team Rwby's and Jnpr's side then you are the bad guy
@@djmars1983 even if you were originally portrayed as all around decent: Ironwood and Qrow suffered from this but since Qrow fell back in like a good little sheep he’s good again.
That would be great, but the writers are so ungodly arrogant and take any criticism as greedy fans being meanie pants, and continue to do shitty writing, making their main characters unlikable while simultaneously claiming "no, they're perfect adorable anime girl protagonists who always do the right thing and are NEVER morally grey!"
I am from the future and I have bad news lol
Twiins: Thats it Im done with Rwby. Im done with this fandom. Im moving on with my life. PEACE!!
also Twiins: *crashes from orbit* I’M BACK BITCHESS!!!
It's like a drug. You just can't quit. I myself wanted to quit the show but just have to keep watching to see where this goes
@@theshire9173
It's like watching a train wreck...Than a car crash in it, a bunch of seals jumps on it.
You realize the driver was a chicken
@@unchartedraider7547 i like that last part.
@@unchartedraider7547 I like this comparison
@@theshire9173 I prefer to compare it to an abusive relationship, you know it's unhealthy and toxic, but you can't break up and still hope for it to become better.
Tho drugs do fit pretty good as well.
Inb4 before the toxic RWBY defenders accuse you of nitpicking and hating the show even though you criticize it because you want it to be the best version of itself.
@@olserknam
Nobody in this comments section is excusing what Ironwood did in Volume 8.
They are expressing the opinion that the way it happened was poorly written.
@@olserknam nobody is excusing his actions. we're only criticizing the awful writing choices that were made during volume 8. and i also find it funny that you call critics toxic for criticism of the writing, yet here you are blatantly lying about the comment section through your teeth while seeing us as the bad guys because we simply want this show to be written better. 😐
@@olserknam comment troller cease
@@olserknam i appreciate you actually taking your time to talk to me lol
well, i actually HAVE seen people simp for ironwood during the volume 7 days. not so much during volume 8 tho. the majority didn't really like ironwood much either due to bad writing (mostly for bad writing) or his actions.
and i've seen nobody excusing him, only understanding, sympathizing, or justifying him lol
@@olserknam Sorry i'm not excusing ironwood's actions.I mean his plang was very fucked up.But i side with him because he's the one who are literally doing the right thing.
Also wanna make a comment to show support for Twiins and let you know (on the off-chance you're reading this), this was a very solid video. You really unpacked the ass-hattery of RWBY and its writers very well.
Would love to see a similar video for how they completely butchered the ending of volume 7. I remember watching qrow and the scorpion guy fighting the good guy and being in pieces from laughter what a hilariously poorly-written product this is
I see all!
And thank you :)
Clovers death triggered me cause of how idiotic I was for Qrow to not only fight the one friend he made sice arriving and quitting alcohol but to work with the serial killer to kill said friend and then instead of blaming himself or Tyrion he has the balls to blame Ironwood. Like clover was trying to bring them in peacefully to talk to James and straighten the situation out but effin Robin pulled the fucking trigger. I hope that Qrows semblance kills her too cause I can smell a forced romance plot there from then spending a few days in prison.
@@homunculus7 Qrow tried to deescalate the situation on the ship, he’s the one to start the fight on the ground and hit him when he had Tyrian tied up causing his aura to break which allowed Tyrian to sneak up from behind and kill him. I feel absolutely nothing for him when Clover dies.
RIP Roman Torchwick
RIP Adam Taurus
RIP James Ironwood
RIP Jacques Schnee
RIP Arthur Watts
The writers can't hurt you anymore
Add raven to the list
Notice how there are no female in the list?
The only female villians that died is from cinder back story
All male villians died while the female get redempted
@@maienglyshisbat174 and that in itself is sexist it has been fucking garbage
Non important characters,
RIP Hazel
RIP Vine Zeki
RIP Clover
RIP Lion Heart
@@djmars1983 of course they'll all the males the writers can't have body pillows of ironwood like they cam neo and emerald dkntbe suprised if neo goes to the good guys side and becomes BFF's with Ruby
There's something else I forgot to mention a scene that irritated me in Vol 7 is when they were in the office and Yang admitted to Ironwood they told Robyn the plan Weiss said "none of this matters right now" I was sitting there like "Two of your teammates gave away vital information to a stranger it very much matters"
An interesting thought occurred to me while I was listening to this, because your descriptions of the differences between how RWBY reacts to lying vs being lied to brought to light how they are written without empathy. It’s a super common trait for heroic characters to have, you could even say it’s a fundamental part of heroism. But while they have big speeches about saving people and all that, they never ask themselves how Ironwood is feeling in any given moment and whether or not they can relate.
Wew lass. You just listed off many reasons about this show. It's giving me so much to refine on my Fanfic-comic of this show.
Here is an oddity about RWBY prosthetics that I have noticed.
RWBY weapons have followed the tagline "It's also a gun". However another rule that it followed during the beacon era was the weapons had to be locker storable because they didn't have them 24/7. You would think the good guys would follow this rule and bad guys don't.
Mercury, a bad guy, had his guns built into his legs. He switches to storable boots at beacon, but has never switched back.
Tyrian, a really bad guy, only replaced his tail to do the same function and didn't add new weapons.
Ironwood, a morally gray/ bad guy, never decided to put weapons in his prosthetics. He always kept his guns separate.
Yang, a good guy, has a gun built into her arm and we have never seen her wear a civilian arm.
The fact that they could've easily changed the story to make Ironwood an AntiVillain who stays in the background and possibly redeems himself and then free up a fuckton of time to focus on Cinder and Salem being the main villains, and it would give Emerald time to develop before she chooses to leave Cinder. All of the weird lack of development in the main 7 villains is due to the fact that they created an 8th in Ironwood. ALL and I mean all, of this could've been avoided if they made Ironwood into an anti-villain or minor antagonist instead of a major villain.
And also speaking of ableism. Can we talk about the fact that before the novels, they specifically tried to not have Neo sign, write, or make any form of communication like AAC simply so that they wouldn't have to write for another character? Or so that Neo wouldn't have to explain her emotions or backstory in the main canon. They could also have made gags where they write subtitles for her or something if they really wanted it to have comedic value like it did in chibi. And that they have these weird Music (the movie) moments in the series where they have other characters explicitly speak for her or have music WITH WORDS in them singing as if it's her. But they explicitly in the main series REFUSE to have her actively communicate outside of eye rolls and gesturing. She's canonically mute, and they refuse to have her act like a legitimate person who's nonverbal. The song only leaves a bad taste in my mouth because in the main series she has never communicated or even typed a single word out, it's like they feel that spoken word is the only type of communication that's "real". The fact that we get a full length song before we get Neo literally communicating in a natural way for mute people is disgusting IMO.
I feel like a lot of people ignore that part when discussing neurodivergencies and ableism with Yang and Ironwood. Neo is canonically neurodivergent and the story treats her either like a gag or a filler character because they don't want to put in the effort to have her communicate in ways that are common for neurodivergent people. Neo is considered an "easy" character simply because she doesn't have to speak, and they use her as a blend-in extra. But in reality, in order to do Neo realistically, Neo is actually just as hard to write because canonically she would likely still have lines or other forms of communication. And that's ignoring the fact that canonically never question why Neo would even prefer to not use writing or AAC to express herself like she seemed to try to in the novel and Chibi. Why all of a sudden does she stop communicating other than: "the writers don't want to spend time animating her using a tablet or paper to write"?
And it gets worse when you look at how characters react to her being mute in the show. Cinder actively seems annoyed and rolls her eyes at the fact that she's mute and speaks AT her instead of TO her. And I don't think that was supposed to be a "this villain is ableist to Neo because she's a condescending bitch" but a "hahah isn't it so annoying that Neo is mute and Cinder can't understand her" even though Cinder spent a few months literally mute.
Or the fact that they imply that Neo is communicating in very specific ways OFF-SCREEN... Remember Ms. Malachite? She had to have communicated in some way to Ms. Malachite and others to find Cinder! Meaning that she does have a set way to communicate but they refuse to show it on screen. It's not like she never writes, signs, or uses communication tools, she just doesn't do it on-screen because they find it too boring/hard. It's some of the weirdest shit ever.
They're too lazy to research and animate Neo communicating with methods like hand-signs or writing
Agreed, I think a good way for neo to communicate would be using her semblance to show what she wants like how she transformed into ruby to remind cinder of their deal or at least create words in mid air for people to read.
It would save the time needed to have her write down everything or use AAC while also being a clever usage of her semblance as well at least in my opinion.
Man that’s really petty of them.
I've seen enough things in RWBY now to think that the writers are actually sexist (specifically misandrist), racist AND heterophobic, but I didn't catch the ableist side of things. Correction, I don't think that they themselves are any of these things except the racist part. What I DO think is that they are writing for the audience they actively courted, so they can see their views projected back to them.
Regarding the ableist mindset the writers have I have to point out that it doesn't make any sense especially for ironwood who since V2 has shown to be mostly machine and he was one of the most selfless, caring characters. Having to lose another limb just to make a stupid analogy that he's becoming evil is one of the dumbest writing flobs I've ever seen
Also it fails when you take into account Yang: Yang lost her arm when she attempted to attack Adam at Beacon, Ironwood mutilated his own arm to stop Watts. What the fuck was Ironwood meant to do? Just sit there and let the mad doctor do whatever he wanted?
Yang’s loss of arm is met with empathy and understanding, her putting on the new arm is meant to be celebrating her getting back up getting back out there, her song “Armed and Ready” reinforces that fact.
Ironwood doesn’t get that.
They blundered their way into a compelling character and then had to assassinate him the next volume to keep things consistent and to show that only RWBY's way of doing things is the 'right' way.
It's insane how much protagonist centered morality RWBY has
It feels like a CW show.
@@thomasraines1396 maybe even riverdale
@@thomasraines1396 Qrow: "This Scythe is literal Perfection!"
Ruby Rose: "It will be....once it can be wielded by a Woman.*
@@johannesseyfried7933 oh my god no.
@@thomasraines1396 And then, Team RWBY gets taken over by a homeless Girl that lives in her Van and talks to Plants. 😆
I've commented on the ableist storytelling in one of your other videos before so seeing it being discussed makes me so happy! I personally don't see the fandom talk/acknowledge how messed up it is enough, so I'm really happy that you're using your platform to talk about it!
I can understand him losing himself by sacrificing soo much he’s not himself. Similar to in the song “Hero” where he seems to throw everything he has away… can now only sacrifice things that belong to others. Which may not be “bad” but it goes against “saving” others.
Which would make it grey… which they don’t want… I guess.
Then that he goes so far, becomes insane from paranoia, I can see that, he becomes bad due to crazy, shoots those he “can’t trust” rather than being reasonable. But that would need more set up… or a “less subtle” approach.
But yeah… they could have done it all WAY BETTER!
But yeah, after this video I can really see the lack of love, the low hanging fruit of “if it’s a common view of what’s bad, it is doesn’t need explanation, it’s obviously bad.” Like, man bad, army bad, war bad… etc.
I think the biggest analogy of how badly and clumsily it was done is that fight with him and Winter.
Where he’s swinging around this dumb clumsy cannon thing. It looked ugly, should’ve just used his pistols.
Speaking of Ironwood vs Winter, can we talk about Winter's hypocrisy? She claimed that Ironwood "sacrificed everyone else" with the embargo and "squeezing Mantle until it choked". Really Winter? Let's talk about your three claims:
1. Uh, his song literally includes the lyrics
*I would die*
*Without regret, I'd offer up my life*
*With zero reservations I would fly
Into the sun, if that would keep our dream alive*
Those seem like a self-sacrificing person to me you white-haired bitch.
*I will fight*
*For you no matter how I am despised*
*Portrayed as cruel and heartless,* I am might
I am power, *I'm due process, I will smite*
Those sound like someone who'll protect the people who will never thank him and will even hate him.
Why is it that fans and writers always use songs as an excuse for other characters, but Ironwood's is ignored?
2. He based the embargo on your reports on Mistral Winter, did you forget? (Vol. 4)
3. "Squeezing Mantle until it choked" was probably referring to him declaring martial law. Well guess what Winter? You also suggested declaring martial law after the election killings and Robyn stealing dust supplies so y'all can finish building the tower (vol. 7 chapter 7). It's not like Ironwood's the first to consider martial law a viable option for something.
You have similar ideas to him you hypocrite, and those weren't due to Ironwood "pressuring" or "oppressing" you.
Honestly, Winter turned from one of my favourite characters to one I can't stand.
This is such a great video and such a perfect discussion about ironwoods character. It sometimes makes me think that whenever I watch RWBY….it makes me feel sick and disgusted. With how they portray a suffering and paranoid man as a bad guy. With how getting a prosthetic doesn’t consider you “human” anymore. How basically telling you that if you have ptsd to “just stop it”. Abusing friends trying to help you makes you the good guy, abusing a kid and suffering man who have been hiding things and forced into this situation and killed multiple times by his loved one makes you the good guy, abusing a paranoid man who has had his trust broken time and time again by people he loved and cared about and honesty just is trying to handle the situation the best he can makes you the good guy.
This is why for me it’s so difficult to agree with RWBY. There’s nothing to love anymore, it’s all about profit. If they really think this is the way they want to handle the show? Then please just stop making it altogether. They keep promising good material and they fail, good characters and they fail, good WRITING and they fail. It would be best to just cancel the show when all they do is just insult the people who watch it and never listen to the things they really need to care about.
I agree, RWBY pushes a lot of strange ideals onto it's audience. People with prosthetics have no soul, being different makes you less human, Love is a cure all for trauma, people in authority are untrustworthy and delusional regardless of their ideals, equal rights activists are all crazy extremists that want to rule over others and are also abusive creeps who stalk their exs, lying, cheating and stealing is okay if its "for a good cause", it's okay to abandon your loved ones and never apologize because you're just protecting them, abusive victims get a free pass to inflict the the same physical and verbal abuse on to others etc.
@@selena44842 RWBY sends a lot of mixed messages: another one I can think of is how they handle Qrow’s alcoholism vs Willow Schnee: they make several jokes about Qrow being a drunk, they then try (and fail) to make it a serious issue which fails because of how easily they poked fun at him, with Willow her drunkenness was and is portrayed as a the tragic life ruining thing it realistically is, we’re not meant to laugh at her or find her “funny” or “cool”.
I think the most baffling thing is that there are people who _defend_ Ironwood's turn.
And pretend like it has been done well...
It's pretty telling that I haven't seen any of that here that isn't a reply to something else.
This was a genuinely phenomenal video twins, thank you for saying what needed to be said.
22:42 I'm so glad you brought this up. Ruby completely forgot that she wanted to be a hero "just like in the books", and she has her silver eyes which can nuke Grimm, but she chooses to sit this fight out. Weiss and Blake are powerful, and they choose to do nothing. These aren't actions of heroes; they're actions of villains.
If their characters weren't FUBAR before, they most certainly are now.
"Are you proud of the show you've made? If 'yes'... f*cking why?"
The perfect question.
I’ve wondered if someone would do a video on why people like RWBY. Kind of like Mother’s Basement’s Art of Mass Appeal videos.
@@venustheanimecat6513 I think it's because the fans are too attached to the series at this point, looking at the fandom at this point. It's more of hating anyone that hates the show instead of actually liking the show
@@Peigay Yeah, if anything the RWBY fandom is kind of an object lesson in why you don't want to become too much of a fan of something.
I was the same way with Blizzard games. Monstrous fanboy, Orcs and Humans was literally my first real video game, I loved Diablo, Starcraft, and played WoW from launch up until BfA. I was That fan.
Whenever people questioned Blizzard's practices, the immediate response was making excuses or ignoring the tarnish on my favorite game company. Because it's emotional now, you're not thinking it through, you just remember the good feelings and games that made you happy when times were good.
For a fullblown fan, criticism isn't just opinion or critique from a differing opinions. It's an attack on something you have a massive emotional attachment to. Criticism might make you second-guess your fond memories, make you wonder if "maybe the thing that made me so happy isn't as good as I remember it?"
So... I dunno, don't ever become a fanboy when you like things.
@@patchwurk6652 agree, same goes to Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas being compared to each other. Many fans of Fallout New Vegas just keep saying that 'Fallout 3 bad, Fallout New Vegas good' or Fallout New Vegas is better than Fallout 3 for many many MANY times to the point it became irritating and annoying. For me, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas are like two brothers that made Fallout series lovable and memorable.
Yeah, I agree. The "heroes" completely screwed up in Atlas due to their entitlement to being the hero.
I truly believe that they made Ironwood a villain so shittily because he made more sense and was a far better character than the main crew. Bro was my favorite character in the show and they just snapped their fingers and went “yall think he’s right and RWBY is wrong? We shall change that!”
It continues to bother me that right after Ruby, Blake, and Weiss watch Salem invade Atlas, what they decide to do is...have some tea.
No desire to spring into action, no coming up with a plan to help the people in imminent danger, just drink tea and talk about how bad everything is, even though they're mostly to blame. Did they not realize how useless this makes their main characters look?
In the end, the volume just proved Ren right that they weren't ready for any of this. At this point, after their plan involving sending defenseless civilians to a place where they’re no safer than they were before while Atlas and Mantle are both destroyed, they all deserve to have their licenses revoked.
It just cemented who they are really: Arrogant little brats that will happily crap on someone else's idea, proceed to do no work in return and then whine that things aren't going their way.
And on top of it all, Yang was probably the worst, because even though she wasn't lazing around drinking tea, she was acting as Ruby's thug, keeping Ren in line and stopping him from speaking out, telling him he's going to "Push everyone away." Last time I heard talk like that, it was from Dutch in RDR2 and that was when he started to go crazy. So I don't know how they thought that was a good look for the Bimbo.
As for revoking their licenses, it wouldn't matter. They got their licenses after not even completing half of their first year at "Training." I'm pretty sure these things come in cereal boxes.
And sadly Ren was lambasted by the story.
@@randomcenturion7264 Then how about they’re all blacklisted from the huntsman profession altogether?
@@jeskler I’m pretty sure they would all be put in front of a firing squad.
@@jeskler Assuming the people of Mantle and Atlas haven't formed a lynchmob once they return from that Wonderland-esque place. They don't need to know how the staff works to do so, and RWBY and co better pray they never learn.
I swear, fanfiction writers can handle the conflicts and topics the writers set up better than they ever could!
That's sadly very true.
A lot of Fanfics manage to improve on Ironwood, and Qrow....hell, they even made me genuinely ship Arkos! 😄
Having Jaune stand up to his Parents and defend his decision to become a Huntsman (and to continue dating Pyrrha) is one of the the best Scenes I ever read and I actually cheered for him.
Its too bad Canon Jaune can't gwt such emotions out of me.
Literally Unicorn Of War rewrote Volume 8 and it is phenomenal go watch it, it had me on pins and needles and gave me goosebumps, I've never got goosebumps from RWBY....EVER!
“Fixing RWBY” is leaps and bounds better then the actual show.
They did the exact same thing Game of Thrones did with Danerys Targaryen... something everyone agreed was bad. Just because you want a character to become "evil" doesn't mean you can ruin their character to do it.
To be honest, they fucked up virtually every named major character by the end of season 8. Almost nobody was left unruined. GoT and RWBY also have that in common.
To quote Krillin from TFS's DBZA: "OH MY GOD, SOMEONE FINALLY PUT IT INTO WORDS"
For a show that has a lot of villains, the really don't write them well... except Torchwick, but he died early... which I can only see as a positive.
And the morally grey characters barely exist...
Torchwick was so great because he was nothing more then a campy enjoyable bastard.
@@thomasraines1396 I saw someone joke that that was why people latched onto Tyrian: still reeling from the loss of our beloved Clockwork Orange husbando, we craved a man who really just enjoyed beating the shit out of teenagers.
@@MsAnimefan95 amazing.
On a different note regarding RWBY's worldbuilding as a whole, I was always wondering how remnant survived with how the militaries exist in thier current state, with medieval tactics and no basic necessities like armored (tracked) vehicles and artillery.
For a rather technologically modern/sci-fi setting, having the arguably most techologically advanced military in the world hinge on only aircraft, mechs and infantry is pretty barebones all things considered.
Even the city of atlas itself with grimm flying around inside it, you're saying that Atlestions didn't concieve the concept of turreted weapons that could be placed around as anti-aircraft guns and/or artillery to bombard the whale?
(Rip, I get that budget restrictions do exist and I know modelling assets do take time and effort but still. I'm not even gonna mention the lack of huntsmen/huntresses either, like where have all the atlas academy students apart from FNKI been the whole time?)
Apparently they can have turrets in a RWBY mobile game. But not in the dang show!
Ima be honest, shitty png turrets would have been enough.
Also the tunnels in the final battle instead being used and manned by troops like sensible people are ignored.
That's an easy way you can tell the writers were high that day.
Don't you remember volume 6? Automated turrets attract Grimm.
@@handles_are_a_bit_rubbish Doesn't matter with large targets like cities
Yes, but the main writers are super anti military, which means they don't know enough about warfare to depict it waged sensibly/competently, and have an active ideological incentive to do the opposite, and make it a US civil war/ WW1 style "Oh, the humanity!" fest.