And by the way trauma doesn't make you a creep that's just bad writing to the story because the point of having PTSD is to avoid the area or the place that cause you to have the trauma in the first place and being a stalker is not a sign of PTSD that's just pure obsession a very toxic at that and I don't care if you're a man or a woman you shouldn't be stalking someone like this you shouldn't know about their personal life or what they have going on in them knowing their calendar knowing their food schedule knowing what place they can go or just whatever sneaking into someone's House stealing his phone using her powers irresponsively when she used them against the Lila being a hypocrite and just a terrible friend even her friends are just as terrible as her and hypocrites at that and this is stuff that we shouldn't be teaching our kids especially the impressionable ones who think stalking their BF and GF is a good thing but in fact you're just being a damn creep
I think one of the core reasons why Marinette is so hated is that she didn't get call out for her BS often despite doing a lot of BS or had any long-lasting consequences. Hell, many encouraged her behaviors, which overall is a bad lesson for children.
Yeah there’s a moment where Juleka points out her crazy date plan is CREEPY and what does innocent Rose say? Something like ‘I think it’s sweet’ 😶yeah her friends are a bad influence and after a while even poor Juleka looses her common sense 😣
It would have been good to have Mari get a wake up call around the Vincent Asa situation when she realised that sharing the same desire as him was soooo wrong but noooo (And have him be arrested....) Would have open new developments for Chat and LB that an misguided Miraculous are not the only dangerous crinimals
@selmabm3409 Exactly, I felt bad for her parents and uncle. They were so excited for her to connect with her Chinese heritage and she literally went all the way to China JUST to see Adrien. They could've easily fixed that by her actually going to China out of wanting to go for her uncle and ancestry and she just so happens to run into Adrien in China as well.
Who did she just broke out of Magakuma? When Chloe broke out of akuma (before darkness consumed her) she had a breathing problems. Marinette should have get a heart attack from something like this!
Thomas: - Adrien - useless love interest - Chloe - irredeemable monster - Gabriel - misunderstood father - Marinette - innocent angel Fans: - Adrien - kitten left in the dark - Chloe - emotionally abused victim - Gabriel - irredeemable monster and an abusive father who deserves to rot in prison - Marinette - stalker, abuser, backstabber, terrible hero, super liar and a mary sue.
yeah and it also shows the massive misogyny: Adrien is SO MUCH MORE worse than Marinette EVER was and the fact people aren't disgusted by him and think he's an angel is proof of that (TLDR for why Adrien sucks: He's a sexual harrasser who can't take "no" for an answer and is continously harassing a girl who has told him MANY TIMES she is not in love with him and SHE is framed as the bad guy for this because how dare she make him sad, he just can't HELP his loveeeeeee. This is so much worse than Marinette because this is a show geared at little girls, it is teaching them if a guy will not stop harassing you it's cause he geniunely loves you and your feelings don't matter at all.)
@@asherville7163 to be far that's a side effect of how the writers portray his crush strangely. They tend to over blow love into uncomfortable but the main reason he's liked is because of his background, being a cat and the fact that more often than not he's sidelined despited being the other half of the title. Also he doesn't always act like that😅
The ONLY way to fix Marinette's character (and many other Miraculous's problems) is to remake the show. That's why I am glad that the Miraculous Movie exists. It might not be perfect, but, it managed to make Marinette a likeable and normal person.
But ,,imagine you knew Master Fu 's lifeline , & marinette kows she is in right timeline .., if all present giving happened as planned ,,..marinette planned her own obsellessence ,, rretirement at 60
@@MGory828 im torn between sabine irl needing to know about this show solely so she knows never to be near this man ever again, not even in the same city... or hoping shes blissfully unaware of how creepy her ex Still Is about her.
He's a rather deranged individual. The fact he rages over the girl he went to school with who he based Chloe on so much he acts like Chloe is her and the fact that Marinette, his fictional daughter, is an invasive stalker... it's not a stretch to imagine WHY the IRL Chloe didn't like him. He was probably stalking her like Marinette stalks Adrien and when she wouldn't go to prom with him it set off a rage within him that he still can't let go of.
@@barbararab6390that's not how cancelling works, it should have done like just barely well enough and then Disney may have been willing to sell the IP to another studio, if it had gotten cancelled the show would've been dead. (edit after 9 days because I feel like I need to explain it a bit better: if the show had gotten cancelled it would have been because the show had done so poorly that it wasn't profitable to keep making it. Thus no other studio would've been willing to buy the IP either because why buy an IP that obviously wouldn't get them anything. If the show did just baaaaarely well enough that it's not logical to cancel it, but it's also right on the border of if it's that profitable to keep making it either, then Disney would most likely be willing to sell the IP)
Nope not true only the American fans are toxic like that like every country outside the USA likes it if you don't like a FRENCH show made by a FRENCH creator go write your own in your American way.
@@MGory828 Hell, that whole arc could've been interesting IF IT WASN'T JUST TO TURN CHLOE INTO THE SPAWN OF SATAN If they made it during season 1 or 2 then it would've been in character for Chloe and would've helped both her redemption arc and Marinette's arc of coming out of her shell of terror But Astruc is just incapable of making an actually good storyline with likeable characters or just ANYTHING positive
Dude I thought I was the only who hated it too! I also left because of not only her but for the rest of the show because of how it made me both angry and confused! Like why would you leave a interesting guy who actually cares about you only for you to go for a guy with daddy issues who should have had CPS and cops called on, and with her stalking and other problems I was like "Good thing Luka dodge a huge bomb on her" for me the only reason I watched it back many years a little bit of middle school was because of Luka, his sister, Rose, and Zoe who I always found better and interesting characters. But no instead people were like we want Marinette x Adrien! Yeah no offense but I really hated that and I'm like really!? What about their adventures?! What about Marinette learning a lesson from all the consequences she caused!? What about oh idk maybe whole show!? I don't know why Miraculous is even popular still?
I love how the writers decided to throw shade at Chloe fans by saying her trauma is no excuse for her bad behavior... in the EXACT SAME EPISODE where they would proceed to get people to excuse Marinette's bad behavior by saying it's because of her trauma. Make it make sense
As someone who's hated Marinette since season 1, it makes me so happy to see so many in the fandom finally speak out about how much of a terrible, unrelatable, and unlikable character she is.
The one thing that I hate is why don't they play to Marinette's passions to make new plotlines? You could've had the premise of the Shanghai Special be that she's having a designer's block, and that coupled with the fact that she sees her mother's outfits being traditional to Chinese culture, she could be like "I want to go to learn more about my culture and to feel inspired", and maybe Adrien just happens to visit her uncle's restaurant and you could still have them interact. You don't need to make her a weirdo to make plotlines work, you need to play to pre-established plot details to pay them off in a satisfying way. And this is why I'm going to rewrite this show in a similar but different style to the Scarlet Lady AU. Similar in the sense that I'll try to preserve storylines from the og show, but different because some of the set up won't be the same.
THIS!! It’s the fact that Marinette (and really the other characters too) don’t get to showcase their interests and passions like normal people! It would’ve been great to see more focus on Marinette’s passion for design and learning more about her heritage but Astruc chooses to just focus on her stalker tendencies ☹️
I think the writers forgot about Marinette’s interest in fashion. In season 4, the Wishmaker episode, Marinette said she wasn’t sure what she wanted to be when she’s older which was strange because you think she wanted to be a fashion designer but, I don’t remember that interest being mentioned in the entire episode. It makes me wonder, when even was the last time she was shown designing clothes?
@@utahsrainbowsprinkles But here's the thing as well: there is an ENTIRE WRITING TEAM and not one of them ever decided to make Marinette less of a creep.
I think the worst part about Marinette’s reaction to Adrien saying he loves someone is the double standard Marinette is holding against him. She tells Cat off every day, which is her right, but she does it in so many cruel ways. Adrien lets it slip once that he has a crush on a girl, and it’s unacceptable. Pick a lane!
@@ChillyOutsideit is really funny because nowadays a person can say something like criticizing women without than a person talks about incel when it has no link with the discussion
By Season 3, I was starting to really hate Marinette. In Season 4, it was mostly the writers decisions as whole. In Season 5, the hatred for Marinette returned with the finale.
And you do feel bad for Cyrus the Great after all just talking about this show would have caused him to lose most of his sanity ages ago besides that he don't care at the show continues running the only thing that matters to him is for the show to finally end and hopefully get canceled because that's the only real way to save that show is cancellation
Yeah I can agree with you I started to hate her a little bit in season 3 but season 4 made me hate her even more answers the congratulations to miraculous for making a such a hypocritical protagonist in my life 😊
Not even a best superhero at that Spider-Man will always be goaded over Marinette who use her powers irresponsively because where is great Powers great responsibility do you even see that in that episode
Cat Noir was not innocent either. Him being pushy flew over my head as a kid, but after having female friends and doing self evaluation, his behavior is also creepy and uncomfortable sometimes.
No one can change my mind about Chloe being Thomas’s old school bully, why else would he lie about her not having a redemption when she actually has had one? And also he hates her so much even though she’s way younger than him and isn’t even real lol.
Just to explain: that arc was not Thomas’ doing 😅 you can sort of tell by the writer names of the episodes and the knowledge of Thomas loathing Chloe with a passion 😶
@@d4red3v1l8yeah i guess he just completely ignores what season 2 showed😅 I wasn’t saying Thomas stopped hating her, I’m saying having the knowledge of this fact explains why Season 2 was so different 🤷♀️ hope that makes sense (and yeah…that rumour of Chloe being based on his bully is likely true😳)
Whenever I see her parents and friends be fooled by her my heart starts aching. Like I feel so bad for them, can you imagine them finding out she lied about so many things because of a stupid crush? Can you imagine Adrien getting therapy and realising how awfully she treated him?(Tho that probably won't happen cause creators just want her to be viewed as perfect). I say make her realise her trauma isn't an argument and Luka call her out on stalking Adrien and not stalking him, thus proving her trauma doesn't play a role here at all. Make her apologise. And make Adrien learn the truth and dump her
Yeah but then she gets mad when Lila lies?😭 I might really hate Lila but it doesn't make sense how Mari gets mad when Lila lies when she's told a ton of lies just because of Adrian
@@caitlincabzz0918 Marinette and Lila are very similar yet they hate eachother I honestly find that interesting, it would be cool if it was expanded and important in the show
Yeah I feel bad for Luka who actually cares and loved her! But she chose to be toxic and decided to go after Adrian! I say this: "my guy Luka dodge a huge bomb" and I hope the show does get a ending where it's over and as time goes by no one will remember Miraculous! Is that harsh? Yes, but is it the truth? Obviously!
Yeah man I do feel bad for a parents because they would have needed that money so that they can take Marinette to Shanghai so that she can understand way more about herself and her heritage from her mother's side of the family but instead she only went there because of Adrian and that's it and if you've done the same thing with your parents about using that money to go with your crush instead of understanding your own heritage then you are just a bad rotten person and I wish Marinette understands that Luca will be there for her like after all he does love her and he is not a stalker he's just a regular dude who is just chill you know Luca will be the type of friend that you can chill out with why he gives off a bunch of Good vibes whenever he does his music someone who can be a best friend for life or you can be vulnerable with because Marinette and Luca did have that moment when she was vulnerable but she was more open with it and not being stuttered like she was with Adrian that's a ship that will work so well if the main writer will ever decided that Adrian and Marinette do not work anymore as a ship it consume most of our time and it's so damn tiring it just gets repetitive real fast when a ship doesn't succeed
I’m gonna say this as many times as people need to hear it. Trauma doesn’t excuse bad behavior or actions, it could be a factor, but it should never be a get-out-of-jail-free-card. You own up to your actions, and you fix them and improve yourself, you don’t blame it on trauma.
Yeah man kratos is a better character than Marinette for one he has done a lot of fuck up as well it has done a lot of terrible things even though everything that he has done won't be forgotten he is trying to make amends for his sins and actually confront his past to learn something from it how to improve yourself use your path as a lesson about how to be better in the future that is the true message of God of war Valhalla and he does own up for it even though people are never going to forget that and some may not never never forgive him but he is trying his best to be a better man and a better father because he is a veteran who has finally take a break from doing wars and not trying to get into fights anymore and with the blades of chaos kratos can control on how he uses them now than he does when Aries controlled them and that's a sign that your past doesn't control you anymore
trauma is not an excuse it's an explanation trauma shouldn't excuse your actions it should explain them so Mari stalking Adrien shouldn't be excused because "she's traumatised she can't help it" no you absolutley can help it go to therapy or idk do litterally anything but being a creepy stalker
And the people they blame the trauma on are people who ALSO HAVE TRAUMA hence why they ruin lives and feel in the right cus then they blame THEIR own trauma which the cycle never ends
I’d like to see them try. It’s not going to work. And I can say from experience. I know from the shows I’ve watched when a character is truly sorry for their actions. Marinette is not one of them.
Ah yes, as like lying to your lover about their father who was an evil twat is somehow better than....I don't know.....TELLING THEM THE TRUTH!? The show made me hate Marinette by season 3 and seasons 4-5 have doubled down on the hatred of her (I know that the writers and Thomas made her be that way but....god, she's such an piece of trash, it's sad.
I never saw her as a stalker for literally one reason. And its quite controversial. Because she's a girl. I guess when I watched this when I was a bit younger, I was so stuck on the thought of: "Only men can be creepy stalkers. When a girl does it, she just really likes him and is dedicated!" News flash young me, women can be creepy stalkers too.
I mean I was gonna say wait until you encounter the 45 year old Brazilian woman I was stalked by who threatened to forcefully impregnate me when I was 17 for a picture of a necklace on Instagram and only fled cause of a good timed cop siren after I threatened her for flying over to the states and to my house when I never talked about it once, but glad you get it regardless.
Of it makes you feel better, its not just you. I watched a whole series as a kid about mennwho were stalked, abused, and some killed, by women they rejected. Every one of them tried to go to the police for help snd was laughed at and called a baby.
My worst complaint about MLB isn't even really about Marinette! It's about Kagami! Kagami is my favorite character in MLB, because I think that a lot of kids can relate to her. An introvert with little to no social skills, controlled by her strict and "uncaring" mother. She is alot like Adrien in that respect. However, the thing that I hate most about her, isn't even her fault at ALL! It's her fucking design! Her blue hair is too reminiscent of Marinette, but her Ryuko identity is where it gets bad. The red and black accents are almost identical to Ladybug, and to top it off, Marinette got to be DragonBug, and their design is basically the same thing! It's horrible. But what really pisses me off is the fact that her name is "Kagami". Now, don't get me wrong, I LOVE her name. It's simple, adorable, actually the right race, (Japanese) and rolls off the tongue nicely. But the Japanese meaning for Kagami is "mirror". She's literally just a mirror to Marinette, created so that Adrien could have another love intrest that wasn't Marinette, but could make it feel like it was Marinette dating him. Astruc wanted a character to date Adrien to create "drama", but decided on another FUCKING MARINETTE. Not that her personality is even remotely similar to Marinette, because in my opinion, Kagami is 1000x better than Marinette. I would have loved to see a series of Kagami as Ladybug and Adrien as Chat Noir that focuses on two sheltered kids being able to have fun for once.
Me too! It would have been amazing to see them bond and becoming a couple or just a pair of besties (much better than you know who) Though Kagami being Adrien's wingwoman....that would have been fun too
@@aria-fantrexian5574 I don't know what ship you ship, but I personally ship Adrigami, and would have LOVED to see Chat Noir confiding in Ryuko about a girl he likes, (Kagami), and Ryuko giving advice on how to win this mystery girl over, all the while being oblivious as to why Adrien has started to flirt with her in really specific ways. Like, Ryuko is like, "You.. Should give this girl some flowers, maybe. And try looking into the meaning of the flowers, she might like that," and then the next day she gets some pink camellias from Adrien, who's gone online and found this random website for flower love languages and is trying to figure out which flowers means "I love you" in a poetic way.
Oh gosh you’re right 😳 Kagami’s mother doesn’t even have blue hair, they just purposely make the cool Japanese girl resemble the main character 😅oh boy
I always feel so sad looking at seasons one and two. The show wasn’t perfect but it had the potential to be a great show and then you know who came in and threw it all out. I actually started to like the idea of Adrian and Marinette having a relationship. And don’t even get me started on Chloe because she became my favorite character because of the amazing redemption arc they were setting up. So much wasted for one mans ego :/
@@MGory828 yes, but you are forgetting .. adults making a cartoon for adults ,,.. i forgot to count the number of times i cried since season 3 , over marinette having succeeded in stopping Mr Agreste ~ shadowmoth from exposing everyones dreams , then getting no memory,, but no way of expressing emotive joy that her friends fell in love .,, but marinette has moments of not being able to be herself ,, tha Agreste family , Bouguese family are share holders of companies so yes Marinette spying as a commoner is legal.,, as ,marinette is nullifying Hawkemoths use of illegal insider knowledge , marinette is more a court judge.
@@gracekim1998 ok,, so as admin to many pages ,, after a while ,, one just dissapears offline as superhero job done .. no need to return ,,.. but from what i know ,..Hawkmoth / shadowmoth Monarcs perspective he is the kink finder ,.. but since our,, i ment marinettes kink is to be alone free of Adrien , a parent forgets their own family .. mr Agreste would know all that Adrien searches online ,, or is that Natelies job,, i wonder since Marinnette or Master Fu set up their internet ,, is Cat Noirs staff phone on French Wifi ,, hmm so many future storylines ..for 30 years time,.. so marinette is undetected til the miraculus is passed to the next person in 2065.. and marinette is in retirement
You know your videos make us realise ,, the more we discuss a disney show the more the bots try to interprete our discussions,, no wonder disney will keep the franchise going ,, i predict that we all contribute to the fandom ,.. even though i write elusively to confuse a bot .
I can’t believe she decided to give SUPER HERO POWERS to everyone in her class, her love rival, her bully, her 5-episodes boy toy and a girl she has only known for like, a week, but not to her middle school friend that literally was almost the only one there for her AND got expelled for standing against the girl that bullied her (I’m talking about Jocqueline). Like she isn’t even MENTIONED before season 5 so you know damn well she was a last minute add on just like Zoey, except Zoey actually had the purpose of replacing Chloe as Queen Bee. Idk wtf Jocqueline’s purpose was.
Further proof as why she shouldn't be Guardian. As she hands them out like candy when they are powerful and potentially DANGEROUS ARTIFACTS!! For all she knew, they would've tried to keep the miraculous for themselves, told someone else, or sell the miraculous for money. A better story would have been if the miraculous kept getting lost over the centuries and the holders keep finding them by chance.
@@BridgetMaranje I like that, like Juluka and Luka could have found there somewhere like Luka finding it in his moms attic that she didn't know and that is where the Snake Miraculous would be there or Juluka finding the Dragon one on a field trip and Zoe finding the Bee somewhere else before she came to Paris like those I think would make sense because think about who's to say they wouldn't make better Guardians than Stalkernett! I like your idea!
@@summersnyder5436 I'm actually working on my own rewrite where some miraculous are either lost or passed down generations. Mari's grandma found the LB miraculous, mistaking it for common jewelry, and given to Mari as a present. Amilie and her husband were former holders and the cat and dog miraculous fell out of Amilie's bag while she was visiting and Adrian and Felix find them (They are twins in my AU). Chloe finds the Bee miraculous while cleaning out her mom's old closet, with a picture of her great grandma wearing it. Chloe later gets hospitalized by Mayura and her identity gets compromised, so she lends it to Zoe, while their dad (Zoe and Chloe are also identical twins in my AU) accidentally gives Chloe a new miraculous as a get well present, not knowing it was magic (I thought a Phoenix would be fitting, seeing as how Chloe's character was burned to ashes.)
Marinette needs karma!! (Like don't get me wrong in the first seasons she was likeable) but after that, she's at fault for Chloe's downfall for siding with HawkMoth, using his powers for personal gain for the sake of Adrien and even broke out of his house, caused the akumas more than Chloe, and forgave Gabriel, who has neglected the fuck out of his son and terrorized innocent lives for a year, especially her trauma got justified because stalking as if it's was okay)
But someone with PTSD would react to the place or certain an event that gave them PTSD in the first place because PTSD people wouldn't be stalking and like I said that is just you being creepy
Thomas thinks everybody loves Marinette when in reality everybody hates her. She has quickly become the most hated female MC’s of all time go watch pretty cure sky you will enjoy that way more
You know what Marinette could have benefited from her parents that they went to Shanghai they would have told her about Shanghai culture her people they could even teach her how to speak Chinese having a focused time on her and her family so that we can see more family Dynamics with her like we should have gotten in that Shanghai movie instead of her obsessing over Adrian
And getting upset when that one girl (I forgot what her name is) stole her miraculous she was crying like “how could you?!?!” But she has stolen herself for her own gain as well.
@@JustinJulian-00 They could've even done it as a Chinese New Year's special where her parents finally raised enough money to visit Sabine's parents for the celebration but Marinette is worried that she won't be able to connect with her maternal grandparents since she doesn't know much about her Chinese heritage.
As if it were her only chance to ever see him or something . . . like. Girl. HE SITS THREE FEET IN FRONT OF YOU EVERY DAY. Just talk to him at school. You know, like a normal person
as if Marinette being a deranged creep/stalker wasn't bad enough, the fact that Thomas Astruc sees her as his "daughter" and went outta his way to create a fictional family with his ex just adds more layers to how much of a creepy lunatic he actually is in real life. seriously, i feel like this guy needs to be on a watchlist at this point.
Lets be honest here. for the wax museum episode if it was a male protagonist being like "that" to a female character, the episode wouldn't even have aired in the first place. because when a girl does it, its "quirky" and "funny", but when a guy does it, then suddenly it's disgusting, creepy and weird. This behaviour is bad no matter what the gender of the character is and you can't tell me otherwise.
Oh my God, that's true, the double standards are crazy... We all agree that she is creepy right? It's creepy in any way to try to kiss someone's statue! My God, go take some fricking therapy or something!
Just being honest I don't hate Marinette for being a character I just hate the way that she is written and that's why people do not like Mary Sue's they just hate the way that the characters are written not hating on the other gender itself because that is the main issue with these characters
@fynchan11of course because she is a fictional character and it's really very pathetic to get this worked up over a character that is.not even real....
@fynchan11I agree! She is the worst character as Charlie from Hazbin hotel!! Both are annoying judging selfish hypocrites They are literally the same!! Instead Charlie doesn't have stalker tendencies as Marinette. And some of Charlie's fans are insanely too.
If I got to be honest with you the show itself is beyond redeemable there is nothing anyone can do to redeem this show even Cyrus the Great doesn't have any hope that the show will get any better and besides that he has done a lot of videos on miraculous ladybug and how awful the show is and a quote by him just because it's a kid's show it doesn't mean the bad writing can't be excused
@@JustinJulian-00 Honestly, I agree with both you and Cyrus the Great. Low-key saw it when season three premiered once upon a time ago. Not many will agree with me, but the only reason why people continue watching the show, it's for Adrienette's canonization, the reveal and trashing Thomas's writing decisions.. Honestly, the only thing saving this show [besides the fanfics, rewrites, comics and redesigns] is Thomas Astruc and Jeremy Zag rebranding the entire series.
@@UnholyGrave834 Actually I can assure you that most people WILL agree with you. In fact most miraculous fans simultaneously hate the show. And in my experience a lot of people don’t care for or like Adrienette so it’s really just to see a terrible show continue to crash and burn.
See, this is why I like fanfiction. Most of the fanfic I've read for MLB is actually fun content to consume and does not make all the characters all messed up and crazy. Most actually fix what the show did.
Is there some sort of app or web site where I can find Miraculous fanfictions. I have heard so much good about them & they have sounded interesting to me.
@@nameless6232 I would recommend ao3, it has an amazing filtering system so you can find what you want and filter out what you don't like. I've also found some good stuff on tumblr. Hope you find something good!
I'll put this comment separate from the other, not only Marinette is a bad character with bad writing she's the "MariSue" , Adrien is writed as a spainless love obsessed kid, Alya as a cloud chaser, Nino as a pick me a cup boyfriend, wont comment on Chloe cause its painful to see, and all the hypocrite friends on the friend group, idk the more you watch and go deep on dialogues and history it gets worse and worse , too many plotholes
@@MGory828yeah but still I think Luka and his sister were more interesting and I feel like Luka should have gotten justice because he actually genuinely cares about Marinette and even was fine with her not liking him back! Bet yet the creator decided to ruin that, for me I rather learn more about Zoey, Rose, Luka and his sister than Marinette and the whole show, I know it's an unpopular opinion but Luka, his sister, Rose and Zoey was the only people in the shos I like, again unpopular opinion I know
It now makes me thing that Mari is basically both what Thomas wish his daughter to be. While, at the same time, is his self insert. Because I suspect this is why he not only has a girl he hates so much he makes a character of her to villainize and harass. AND another woman (who is his ex) to be his "wife" with his other self insert. His obsession greatly matches Mari's. Her actions in the show is possibly some sort of unintentional confession. Or at least him trying to find justification for what he WISHES he could do towards these women in his life.
This is why I loved the Miraculous movie so much. It removes so much of what's wrong with the show and especially Marinette. Adrien and Chat Noir are actually important to the story. He and Marinette/Ladybug bounce off each other really well and genuinely feel like a team, unlike the show which treats Ladybug like she's the royal queen of superheroes and Chat Noir is her useless sidekick that's there just for the sake of being there. And best yet, Marinette doesn't stalk Adrien. She has her crush on him yes, but she doesn't stalk him and obsess over him. Her crush on him is a healthy one. And another fantastic thing, Adrien and Marinette reveal their identities to each other at the end of the movie and get together. I fucking despise the bullshit of them not being allowed to reveal their identities and the movie goes to show that it could be a good thing, better even for them to know rather than to keep it a secret from each other. Not to mention the show put its fans through years of "will they won't they" and it's beyond annoying
Chat noir being assassinated is by far the worst thing this series has done. Would rather they had at least kept him as comedic relief like season 1. Now he’s just.. bleh
Marinette: *makes hand crafted gifts for Adrien’s next 50 birthdays* Also Marinette: *is a month late to Mother’s Day and uses her moms own money to buy her a gift*
The only reason the identity rule exists is to drag the show out by will they or won't get together it took like what? 5 seasons for them to get together. Coincidence? I THINK NOT!
Another moment that I consider a Mary Sue moment because I’m positive she won’t receive any consequences for doing this Lying to Adrien about Gabriel and what Adrien is. She has 0 right to keep that from him and the fact that Thomas and other people think this is okay because it’s “protecting his happiness” is total bs, they’re removing Adrien of any agency and actively withholding development from him nor allowing him the right to come to his own conclusions and deal with his own feelings, they’re over sheltering and controlling him She, Nathalie, Felix, and Kagami are frankly no better than Gabriel in that regard,
So worth the wait MG! And I’m with you not hating Marinette at first. In seasons 1 and 2. She was chill and even likable. But then 3, NYS, season 4 and 5 came along. And all that respect of thinking Marinette was amazing back then turned to pure black hatred! Like a solar eclipse. But without any light.
Fr, fr. Ron Stoppable, despite being supposed to be the silly sidekick and less capable than Kim, is actually treated with more respect than Chat Noir, who is supposed to be Ladybugs Partner. Ron gets several episodes, in which he saves the day, his own arch enemies and several special talents of his own. The entire KP movie is actually about how important Rons help is and how Kim isn't as effective without him. Meanwhile poor Chat Noir doesn't even get to be a part in the season 5 Finale. It is also really weird how Kim is both more relatable and less of a Mary Sue than Marinette, eventhough Kim is supposed to be extraordinary and ridiciously talented. Yet the KP series let's its maincharacter actually struggle, not only with her villains but also with belivable teenage problems and gives Kim real consequences for messing up.
@@regenbogenwolf True. Despite all of Kim's talents and the tagline "she can do anything", she struggles a lot. She isn't perfect and many times, she needs Ron and/or Rufus to aid her. Ron is just called the sidekick but like you said, even he gets more respect compared to Chat Noir (the show says that he and Ladybug are equals but that isn't true. He's more often used as a punching bag/meat shield/victim to be used against LB). Also, the romance between Kim and Ron is SO much better.
Sailor Moon is WAY BETTER than Miraculous.😆🌙✨💗 Usagi Tsukino/Sailor Moon is a better written female protagonist because She started out as a crybaby not wanting to fight bad guys but she transitioned into a strong young woman, becoming a the most powerful sailor guardian and protecting her dear friends. I think she’s a wonderful hero, also she’s written by a woman.😊🥰Unlike Miraculous, It’s created by a man child and guys have no idea what’s inside a girl’s head.😒🤦🏻♀️
One thing I hate about this show is how it could have gone right. Being a stalker is a HUGE flaw in her character. The problem was the show never stripped it away. I wish Adrien had been the main character, because you can see that he’s trying to change. He went from being extremely sheltered to trying to make friends and trying to be normal. He feels real. The show used Cat Noir to make Adrien better, and that’s how it should be… Marinette though… We’ve seen that Marinette is a lot better of a character as Ladybug, because she shows herself work smarter and be more collected (Though she’s a bit of Mary Sue as Ladybug). But unlike Adrien, none of those traits transferred to Marinette. Cat noir made Adrien less sheltered and more brave. Ladybug didn’t change Marinette at all. She’s still a stalker all these seasons later. She just comes across as a Mary Sue with too many issues. To fix Marinette, I would 1. Transfer the good traits of Ladybug into Marinette to progress her character 2. Give Marinette other struggles than just secrets and her boy crush. Make her feel real. She could have times where her other life hurts her family, or makes her fall behind. Show us that she’s not little miss perfect and “I can do everything!” 3. The stalker behavior has to go. She could realize how unhealthy she’s being and how she’s making her situation worse. Progress her in a normal way with Adrien Okay thats all.
Marinette is one of the worst characters in the show! The world has to revolve around her! She's a total creep! She's more focused on getting a date with the guy she's obsessing over instead of doing her job and tracking down the villain, which is way MORE IMPORTANT!! Hello, what about Adrien, the other main character who is way more interesting?! You know since his dad is the villain! Seriously, what's more interesting to watch, A superhero team working together to stop a Villian bent on destroying the world,or a stupid girl trying time and time again to get a date?🤦 They should really rewrite the whole show, it's the worst. I think the Shadybug and Claw Noir special was good, I enjoyed their personalities. Heck,at least in the Scarlet Lady AU, Mari wasn't a creep like she is in the show.
Yes sir Marinette and Caillou belong in this category of being God above their own show they going to do what they want treat their friends and parents or siblings like shit they don't get the stuff for the consequences that they get and they get rewarded at the end instead of getting punished I never like Caillou for its theme song how the character was portrayed and how he treated those around him and why do people even make him if I were to go back in time in Canada then I would have make sure that Caillou never existed then we wouldn't have many kids that are just like him
@@MGory828I agree and even @user-oy6he1qs8b is right! She is the worst character as Charlie from Hazbin hotel!! Both are annoying judging selfish hypocrites They are literally the same!! Instead Charlie doesn't have stalker tendencies as Marinette.
The first episode of season 5 could have honestly ended the show but no Gabriel had to make a stupid decision to go after the miraculouses instead of just saving his wife and preventing every mistake ever made in miraculous ladybug. Seriously all he have to do was save his wife and everything would have been happy.
Can you tell me what miraculous it is that will give you any power that you want and if you do please let me know because Gabriel could have used that miraculous to give himself the ability to resurrect his wife instead of taking the ladybug and cat noir miraculous so that way he can finally bring her back and then we can understand her more as a character because we're tired of the mystery of why his wife is still in comatosis that's been happening for way too long now can you please just give us something that we hope for right now is for Adrian's family to be important
To be honest, this could potentially work. Like how he got obsessed with power and forgot why he even wanted that power in first place. That WOULD be cool, but writing in this show is too shitty to make this work (excluding first 2 seasons, they were enjoyable)
When my friend and I watched this show and got to season 5, we would both go "how will the universe bend over backwards to ensure a win for Marinette".
i really am not a fan of the “Character loses all higher brain function and becomes a stuttery mess around their crush who remains completely oblivious to this behavior” trope. I just- don’t find it cute or endearing in the slightest, and I find it incredibly hard to be invested in a dynamic if half of said dynamic is complete brain mush whenever the other half is around. That’s not compelling to me. I can’t get reasons to want these two together if there’s no interactions that get legitimate chemistry going. Of course, when i figured out that was really all this show wanted to be centered around, i lost any interest i had pretty quick lol
3:04 Marinette also shares the same English VA as Ren Yamai from Komi Can't Communicate, another character whose main trait is being overly obsessed with one of the main leads. They're both terrible people, but at least Yamai gets called out for her bs, and the show doesn't try to justify her actions.
Bittersweet fact: Marinette and Verosika aren’t the only characters who are voiced by Cristina. She also voiced Tulin in ‘The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom’. The sweet side, being that Tulin is my favourite Sage and the arc he goes through. The bitter side is that he’s voiced by the same person who voiced Marinette and I question, “Did Cristina even know what the script in ‘Derision’ was implying?”.
i remember being so disturbed by the Marrinette and Adrien statue scene that even as a kid i turned the show off and stopped watching it completely. People have to remember that kids minds are still developing and its bad to show kids things like that and paint it as a completely okay thing to do, so i'm glad that someone talked about it :) great vid btw you got a new sub
Yeah man I have also seen that seen where Marinette just walks at Adrian pertain to be a statue and then kissing him as a statue that's just nasty and creepy as hell I would be like Adrian and jump as well if I can kiss like that while I'm pertaining to be a statue and people with impersonable minds think that this stuff is okay we need to give him that jolt of that stuff is wrong man we shouldn't be stalking anyone like this even if it a boy or a girl
The same people who condemn Chloe for acting the way she does with trauma will excuse Marinette and praise her. It's the textbook definition of double standards.
@@Prominence2.0 That's what I say I am kinda a stalker victim myself so mari isn't a great person even if she has trauma but the same people forgive chloe because of her trauma I have met 1000 of mari haters but everyone loves Chloe I admit it she deserved a redemption arc but season 5 Chloe was horrible while mari got a little development. The show itself could've written 10X better than now I Wish Thomas stops writing rathe Jeremy writes he wrote the movie it was good also the shanghai special was the worst.
@@Prominence2.0 I am fine now but thanks. People literally forgive chloe for everything because of her trauma I'm not saying mari is an angel she stalks and it's not a very nice thing but mari could be sweet caring and supportive to and s4 and mari stopped stalking and about chloe she has never been nice when when she was given a second chance rather she teamed up with lie la or may I say cerise
I just honestly don't understand how shows or films continue to make the "mean girls" more likeable and relatable than the main character. Sierra and Veronica (Sierra Burges), Belly and Taylor (TSITP) Ginny and Abby (Ginny and Georgia), Marinette and Chloe. All those secondary characters had more depth and realism than any of the main ones
to be honest i don't quite get why she was written to be a creep but it could've maybe worked if they just gave simple consequences to her actions and acknowledge things were wrong, as someone who's been watching miraculous since i was a kid i'm glad when i watched it as a kid i knew her actions were wrong because i fear that this show could push this behaviour onto children.
@@Cinnamonraisin_Bagel honestly I thought mari's stalking could have been a good shock lesson because most of us are in mari's pov in the show. we generally understand her thought process and how she explains or justifies the behavior to herself and because mari is generally a good person who is cute and helpful and awkward but means well...we don't see her as a threat...her friends dont see her as a threat either and think its romantic or let it slide because they trust her character. but I though it would have worked where mari gets away with it and not realizing the issues in her behaviour for a while...just for it to blow up in her face where adrien finds out mari has kind of been treating him like a celebrity crush. that she'skindof treated him as a love interest first anda friend second fearing the friendzone...how its easy to tell yourself its not abig deal when your anonmous and the crush doesnt know so you think your not bothering them... where we see side affects from her NOT being honest with her feelings and lying to his face...like if anything I felt adrien had put civilian mari on a pedistal because he thought she saw him properly...when in fact her rose tinted glasses often warped her view of him a bit. the show directly has adrien face consequences when he messed up or does something wrong in how forward and open he is about his crush...where usually LB calls it out directly or the show punishes him more directly... but always has him realize where his action was wrong. while mari holding back her feelings, doing stuff whre he can't see it, collecting info from afar on the surface seemslikethe better choice since its not bothering adrien like how chat's way bothered LB....but then they culd have a shock where it catches up to her and it blpows up in her face where he genuinely does get pissed and hurt. over how she handled it. and it points out the negatives from how mari handled her crush..like her not having a proper accurate picture of who he is in her head because she struggled to talk to him properly...and how her view aboid looking down on the friendship part for fear of a freindzone and jumping steps could have issues. and how even if your feelings coem from a sincere place..handling it the way mari did could make your sincere feelings come off as shallow where its more like a celebrity crush type. it would work as a contrast to eachother like yin and yang and have more impact becuase alot of us DO not realize how far we goa times and how its easy to justify ourself or others to enable and not call the behaviour out because WE think we are fine/believe we are being harmless. but then the stupid episode of ehr repressed trauma came to try to justify and explain it when mai being afraid of vulnerability so collecting info from afar IS already relatable and ow plent of teens can act around a crush! boundaries can be hard to realize when its alot easier to collect info on people now adays
Marienette be on that crazy shit no cap.Lets talk about how many thing she stole from people in the first three seasons alone. Marinette has literally stolen multiple things and nobody calls her a thief. Kagami "steals" Adrien and is thought of like a criminal. Lets be real. Girl a full ahh criminal.
It’s the fact how when cat noir confesses to ladybug and she’s mean to him instead ppl are like, “she’s absolutely right u can’t force someone to like you” but when Adrien rejects Marinette in a nice way and she acts dramatic ppl are like “omg he’s so blind he’s a terrible boyfriend
Marinette is such a perfect representation of how much of an out-of-touch weirdo Astruc is. He's a rich guy who still has a grudge on his middleschool bully and wrote a protagonist based on the imaginary child he fantasized about having with his ex. Of course she would be a rich spoiled brat who calls herself a normal person. Of course she would be a creepy stalker with a complete disregard for boundaries. And of course the universe within the show would love and praise her every step along the way. Because the writers think this behavior is good. They think it's normal. It's normal to Astruc.
Great video MG! In the beginning I didn’t hate Marinette but when season 3 and 4 happened it made me hate her. Maribrat deserves karma. Luz from TOH, Sofia from Sofia the First, Elena from Elena of Avalor, Anne from Amphibia and the MLP main girls are so much better female MCs. Unlike Ladybrat, they do the right thing, are kind and have character development. And when they have their villains in their finales, they defeated them, unlike her when she forgave a terrorist.
Why is the power system soooo bad here? Besides the fact that the lore is so minimal it's a miracle that they have it in the first place. I don't want to bash my head with the bunny and the snake but there's this tiny other thing that frustrated me along with the others from the fandom: WHY ARE THEY SO MANY!? Not only it creates bloat in the ensemble with the kwamis and the class but some of them don't even need to be there! If I were a writer, I'd have the Miraculous be seven max at least in Paris while the villians can be on the supernatrual or mystical kind....because Gabe was soooo tiring after season 2! If they wanted to have mutiple seasons, at least they should have done that!
I know its an obvious point but Marinette forgives Gabriel for almost killing her, abusing his son who is her crush then keeps the dark past as secret from said boy for no reason, and then she tunrs around and Cloe, a teenage girl who hanst thretaned her life and saftey, is unforgivable Second way less important point, Marinette is a fashon designer and despite possesing the ability to choose what her Ladybug costume looks like she sticks to the UGLIEST most BALBDEST more UNISPIRED design ever, good job Marniette, so fashon of you
Another thing I forgot to say is that the miraculous costumes don't look good the design of them are just too simple and a bit bland like I can give you examples of characters with better costume designs than miraculous Spider-Man Batman iron Man and probably many more but their costumes that they have gained over the years like Spider-Man's iron spider armor iron Man Endosymbiote armor and Batman's hell-bat armor but they need to bounce out the complexities and some simplicity of costume designs so that their design is not too simple and not too complex just something in the balance
And since the miraculous are magic Base anyone who wears the jewelry should be able to change the designs of their costumes every once in awhile because the ladybug and cat noir have the blindness costume designs can they at least change their designs when they do the transformation phase next time
@BreadBush I agree like wtf?!! She is the worst character as Charlie from Hazbin hotel!! Both are annoying judging selfish hypocrites They are literally the same!! Instead Charlie doesn't have stalker tendencies as Marinette.
Even since I first saw the ending of season 3 I trough making Marinette the guardian was a cheap way of trying to give her more ''relevance'' in the story.Because up to that point all the importants things of the story were making Adrien more relevant;He is Chat Noir ,His father is the villian, his father's assistant is the other villian ,his mother is the main goal of the villian ,his cousin and aunt obviously knowing Gabriel has something to do with the akumas,while all Marinette had in that moment was just being Ladybug. Is like if they realized how much relevance they gaved Adrien at that moment that they needed to do something to give Marinette more relevance so she could stand out more than him.And it makes no sense because Fu wasn't even a real guardian since he never finnished his training! So obviosly she should have never became a guardian.But oh well Miraculous Logic 🤷🏻♀
And they made Fu so pathetic. Like an anti zordon. He’s suppose to be much older and should’ve been smarter than that. Like imagine if they used good writing to have a fail safe plan and it actually came to me today. Say Hawkmoth did find him before the mess with Chloe but the box he had was empty and a fake with not sensing the miraculouses anymore, leading Hawkmoth to believe he’s been chasing after a fake or decoy all this time. When in reality Fu had the kwami’s hide away in time without renouncing his guardianship. Can also give him time to finish his training and for the heroes to seek outside help.
The fact that Mari has very supportive parents who own the best bakery in the whole town, her uncle is a world class chef, her bestie Aliya has the most famous vlog channel in the city, her crush is a famous model, she is a superhero, she is pretty, she has so many friends who are also superhero as well, how tf she has trauma ? Oh that bullying she faced from Chloe ? Still it doesn't make any sense why she is so so so so over obsessive and such a huge stalker.
Everything that needed to be said was said. It really does make me miss season 1 and 2 Marinette because she wasn't being the forced "kind helpful person loved by everyone". Worst part is that every-time she does act like this, the show wants to make you believe it's for a selfless reason to be helpful, when it's in fact for a selfish reason that benefits her. The boys only party : She wanted to get in Adrien's room Forcing Kagami to reconcile with Adrien: She wanted to see Adrien in the pool And other stuff like the twins birthday, Chloe becoming a villain were also pretty bad. But the most annoying one so far, was the diamond dance. Girl, stole Zoe's identity, snuck (yet again) into a private event uninvited, all just so she could tell Adrien two words she could've said to him the next day at school or by text. She could've waited one night but noooo, she had to make a scene in front of all the guests and not only did she not suffer consequences, she didn't consider she could've gotten both her boyfriend and her friend in trouble with their parents. And she still wonders why Gabriel doesn't like her.
I don't think you understand how much this is becoming common and I love it so much she treats her partner abusively and yes cat noir flirts way too much but the way she goes about it is really wrong, constant down talk on Chloe for other actions other miraculous holders have done after her it's just her personal bias against Chloe, shes a Mary Sue I don't think I need to say much more about that, and her most egregious offense is being a stalker; but those people don't know anything, crushes don't have birthday plans for their 60th birthday, have a layout of their crushes schedule with their exact time and dates and don't use their superpowers to break into their home and sniff their pillows. That's not having a crush that's called full-blown creepy stalking but this would make for an interesting character if she faced consequences, I'm pretty sure we can see that she faces little to no consequence. However not all main characters have to be good people just good written characters unless this show was made for children and it's supposed to be their role model; and by the time that we do address the stalking date excuse it with fake PTSD and ruin another character who honestly wasn't that interesting to begin with. Marinette is a bad person that the show tries to write off as a good person which in turn makes her a bad character. However that's only Marinette if I were to even talk about the power system the story and the other characters I would be here for an hour
@@MGory828 my head hurts just thinking about it also a fun fact remember when Alex became time tagger when she accidentally rolled over the clock you know the miraculous that is invincible
@@Keith_Norman The show for sure made a retcon after season 1. It was supposed to be a normal pocket watch but naah, it was a Miraculous the whole time....It doesn't make sense!
as someone who's watched the Miraculous movie myself.... he might be waaay better than Thomas in every way... but he still has a long way to go with his writing skills
The whole “Marinette’s trauma 🥺” thing was so badly written and last minute. Of course the show needed an excuse for her creepy behaviour, and they came up with the laziest excuse ever. They legit just shoved it in there when it had no trace of existing before.
Ikr it felt so forced and there was no trace or hints leading to it (sorry for my wording but you know what I'm saying) For example Angel Dust from Hazbin Hotel (I'm sorry if you don't like the show or him) is an SA victim and he turns to hypersexuality as a way to gain back agency he lost in his abuse as a result makes other people uncomfortable. He even went too far to the point it led to harassment but he got called out for it, although an apology would be nice but them calling him out for it was enough to tell me it's negative and should never be done to anyone and we know where it stems from so even though you don't like him, you know where it's from. Or Isabela from encanto, I hate her so much mainly because she treats Mirabel like trash, forces her to apologize for "ruining" Isabela's life intentionally to hurt Mirabel's feelings and they neither make Isabela apologize nor call her out for it but I know it stems from how Abuela is moulding her to be her mini copy which also makes her copy Abuela's ideals.
The truth,you spoke nothing but the truth. They destroyed her character beyond comprehension. Poor Adrien. How Thomas has the guts to do what he did and still defend Mari is beyond me. For goodness sake Tikki claimed Mari is the best Ladybug she had ! I mean HELLO,Astruc had the audacity to have Tiki claim that after saying the past Ladybugs were a Saint and JESUS. The Son of God. What is WRONG with him!? 🤷😠😳🤯🤦 I agree with everything you said,we can only hope this Show gets the remake it deserves,it had potential the fans used better than the writers and Astruc.
Wait, wait, wait, as a Christian, I need you to back up. Thomas Astruc, that egotistical man written Jesus Christ as a past Ladybug??? YET HAS THE AUDACITY the utter audacity to claim Marinette is the best? What?! That's utterly ridiculous! Utterly ludicrous!
@@gracekim1998 Yes I mean her. About Jesus It was,If I remember correctly,on a post of his mentioned. Also in the photos when It was talked about the Miraculous and the previous hosts it showed some famous figures as past holders.
No one ever talks about the episode Riposte. In the episode Marinette trys to take fencing and Adrien says Marinette your supposed to touch me. And after he says that Marinette giggles and says touch you then she moans after..... That is the episode when Kagami first comes into the show.
Other than that, there's also Animestro where Marinette teamed up with Chole to stop Kagami for bonding with Adrien which.....WHY!? (Ignoring the fact that Tommy would have been writing Chole being bad on purpose because he doesn't know how personal growth works). Marinette doesn't try to be friendly or just help her parents because apperantly she thinks that Kagami is as bad as Lila when she's not (sigh....what a jealous dog)
@aria-fantrexian5574 I hate that episode because Thomas is being a big baby in it just like in real life. And the writing for that episode is horrible.
No one talks enough about the diamond dance because girl literally snuck into an event, stealing Zoe identity, made a scene, just so she could tell Adrien something she could’ve told him the next day at school
Kinda unrelated and I might be wrong about this but (if I remember correctly) in season 4 Gabriel says something like "the reason why ladybugs never makes any mistakes is because she NEVER takes any risks." But if you remember in season 3, She accidently leads him to master Fu while still in her ladybug costume, which is a huge risk and ends up being huge mistake which leads to him capturing master Fu, hell I think he even mocks her for her mistake during the fight when they are about to DE transform. So yeah (if I am right) this is yet another instance of the writers forgetting their own story to treat Marinette like someone who is perfect.
In s6 leaks we can Marinette is still a stalker despite being with Adrien. If the show wants me to believe that Chloe will never be good, I have every right to think that Marinette will never change and will never have consequences cause she'll use her plot armor.
Sigh I kind of agree with you, the issue with Marinette is she always seems to admit she was wrong at the end of the episode but then continues to repeat that same mistake over and over again and she doesn't seem to realize this.
Sometimes i feel tha Cat Noir shouldve been the main hero. Ladybug has done a lot of heartbreaking stuff to him. I dont think the fans would be mad if he made his own team and protected Paris.
EXACTLY!! Are we really gonna forget Chloe, Lila and Kagami?? I think imo, it should've been Chloe or Kagami be the main character, heck, we have so many yandere troupes now can we just move on from those by having villains or misunderstood characters to be in the limelight?? Kagami may fit the main character role but I would die if it's Chloe or Lila, those two will absolutely crash the show like villains into good guys or Lila being a villain and recognizing that lying leads her going nowhere and redeems her action by going to mental hospital and the new ladybug would be Chloe or Kagami.
Marinette is the child friendly version of Yuno Gasai 14 year old pigtailed stalker high schooler taking notes and breaking into her crush's house being in love with the idea of her crush all the while having little self love. The shade of pink Marinette wears is the same as Yuno's hair colour. Overall, they are both psyco and i wouldn't be surprised if Astruck watched future diery
Here's another thing that Thomas can be considered for, creativly bankrupt that he rips designs off from other franchises: The monster that Thomas's self insert transforms into when he's pissed off that someone doesn't like Marinette is basiclly a rip off of Zarude from Pokemon, the dark coat, and green spiked vines around the wrists.
Ok with the end of season 5 the results are: Marinette is an horrible person, but is treated like a Goddess Gabriel is a Monster who menace to destroy Paris from 5 seasons, 1 time Shangai, 1 time NY and the whole world, but at the end he is considered a Hero. Chloe a child how suffer because her mother left her alone for years and said mother consider her daughter as a burden, if she could renounce to it, she will do it without thinking one second, but at the end she is considered like a fusion of the Devil, Hitler and all the serial killers ever existed. Adrien called a Co-protagonist and have the same value as Marinette. But at the end he is nothing more than the love interest of the true protagonist, in the meantime he is victim of a Stalker, and is considered by the producers of the show as the damsel in distress of the season
From watching Miraculous Ladybug analysis videos, I can describe Marinette in few points: 1. Her crush on Adrien went from normal puppy love to yandere obsessive in later seasons 2. Doesn't know her boundaries 3. Her friends enabling her obsessive behavior 4. Gets no repercussions for her actions and is easily forgiven 5. Mistreats and gaslights Chat Noir in season 4(well... she was somewhat of a jerk towards him in the earlier seasons but this attitude got worse in the fourth season) 6. Is written as a Mary Sue with BS deus-ex machina moments 7. The reason her father got akumatized ( looking back on the episode "Weredad" now I know who's in the wrong) 8. Forgives Gabriel Agreste for his villainy in the finale despite all the horrible things he's done throughout the show and keeping Adrien in the dark about his father's sins 9. Her "trauma" being explored in a LATE episode to justify her stalker tendencies ( I pray for your sanity discussing "Derision"....🙏) 10. Thomas Astruc's favoritism towards the character
Marinette was actually a very bad friend. Especially towards Alya. When she met Nino at the zoo and Nino said he was in love with Alya, she immediately encouraged him to date Alya, even though Alya had clearly told her that she didn't want that. (Yes, the two ended up together, but Marinette can't just give another boy hope if her best friend doesn't want that). Then when she accidentally deleted the video on Alya's phone, she lied to Alya and stole the phone. Later, she also stole Adrien's phone and the file card from the camera during the class photos. When Juleka wanted to model, she immediately replaced Juleka when she got nervous for a moment. When they made a film for the first time, she told Chloe that she had a good idea, just so that Chloe and Adrien wouldn't kiss and she could get rid of Chloe. In general, she goes completely crazy when Adrien has something to do with a girl. When Lila lied the first time, it could have been portrayed as a girl who just wanted to impress a boy, and Marinette overreacted and humiliated her in front of that boy and then used every opportunity to badmouth Lila. She raged against Lila for what was initially an innocent lie. And whenever something happened that involved Chloe, Marinette automatically thought of Chloe as the bad guy. But when Alya was suspended, she violated Chloe's privacy. When Chloe's bracelet disappeared, she acted like Chloe was crazy. She also noticed how Chloe stood by her mother and instead of helping Chloe, she took away one of the few things that made Chloe happy because "Hawkmoth knows her identity." But she was able to keep giving the Miraculous to Kagami, Alya and Nino. And as for the video game competition, she didn't really care about the competition, but she wanted to take part in it to be with Adrien, even though she knew how much it meant to Max. When Nathanael was akumatized, she knew he had a crush on her and she went to his party anyway and deliberately gave him hope. And a lot of people were akumatized because of her. And it was totally stupid of Master Fu to give two people a Miraculous just because they helped an old man once. For Marinette, her own needs always come first, even if the world is in danger or she hurts others.
As an adult woman who had several girls-only sleepover parties in middle and high school, but hasn’t watch MLB since s2 lol, the whole “the guys-only party was sexist” criticism mentioned around 22:15 or so just strikes me as so stupid. Sure, “no girls allowed” clubs and groups and stuff, THAT could definitely be argued is sexism because you’re excluding one gender from ALL events with a particular group, and even then I feel like context and nuance matters. But having one single event with just your dude friends, I feel like that’s completely normal?? Heck, for one of my good friends - the day before her birthday, we both took off work and had a girls day - spa, dinner, then just hung out for a few hours. When her husband got home from work, he left us to our liquor and TV and was like “y’all enjoy your girls night.” And we would have included him if he WANTED to get his brows waxed and nails done lol but that very much didn’t interest him, so the entire evening (& night bc I wasn’t driving after moonshine lolllll) was just us girls.
I don’t hate Marinette but I hate what the writers make her do: the yearly schedule obsession, breaking into Adrien’s room, stalking (in both Paris and Shanghai) etc😅 that’s why I’m so grateful for analysis videos ❤ It’s also why Felix is in the right in that one moment he finds the messages and deletes Marinette’s message😅
@@MGory828you’re welcome 😊 to be honest the way the show has kinda incoherent lore makes it hard for me to fix it in a rewrite 😅 do you have any tips for fixing the way the miraculous work (especially the rooster)?
![Lets redesign Marinette!! [this took 3 years to make]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cgXLx4jklZU/mqdefault.jpg)
The argument of "she's stalker because of trauma" makes it feels that the Luca relationship was a joke all along, she wasn't that stalkerish with him
Wait til my Derision video
also having trauma is not an excuse to be a creep, it can be a reasoning but show treating her actions as just because she had trauma is stupid imo.
@@MGory828 will doo
@@Cinnamonraisin_Bagel indeed
And by the way trauma doesn't make you a creep that's just bad writing to the story because the point of having PTSD is to avoid the area or the place that cause you to have the trauma in the first place and being a stalker is not a sign of PTSD that's just pure obsession a very toxic at that and I don't care if you're a man or a woman you shouldn't be stalking someone like this you shouldn't know about their personal life or what they have going on in them knowing their calendar knowing their food schedule knowing what place they can go or just whatever sneaking into someone's House stealing his phone using her powers irresponsively when she used them against the Lila being a hypocrite and just a terrible friend even her friends are just as terrible as her and hypocrites at that and this is stuff that we shouldn't be teaching our kids especially the impressionable ones who think stalking their BF and GF is a good thing but in fact you're just being a damn creep
I think one of the core reasons why Marinette is so hated is that she didn't get call out for her BS often despite doing a lot of BS or had any long-lasting consequences. Hell, many encouraged her behaviors, which overall is a bad lesson for children.
Because she’s the MC
Yeah there’s a moment where Juleka points out her crazy date plan is CREEPY and what does innocent Rose say? Something like ‘I think it’s sweet’ 😶yeah her friends are a bad influence and after a while even poor Juleka looses her common sense 😣
It would have been good to have Mari get a wake up call around the Vincent Asa situation when she realised that sharing the same desire as him was soooo wrong but noooo
(And have him be arrested....)
Would have open new developments for Chat and LB that an misguided Miraculous are not the only dangerous crinimals
@@MGory828 Nah it is because she is the director's digital daughter.
@@gracekim1998 I love how it played out like Juleka is the "oddball" of the group yet irl THEY are the oddballs
Still can’t believe she literally WENT TO A DIFFERENT COUNTRY just to be near adrien
I really felt bad for her parents. They saved money so she could learn about her family and heritage and she didn't give a crap.
@@selmabm3409Agreed! She’s a psycho for that
@selmabm3409 Exactly, I felt bad for her parents and uncle. They were so excited for her to connect with her Chinese heritage and she literally went all the way to China JUST to see Adrien. They could've easily fixed that by her actually going to China out of wanting to go for her uncle and ancestry and she just so happens to run into Adrien in China as well.
Exactly!
@@selmabm3409yeah i don’t know why they thought this was ‘adorable’ when she was ignoring her uncle’s birthday 😅
Imagine that Gabriel just sees the entire flashback and is like seriously this girl is messed up.
That would save Derision ngl
Who did she just broke out of Magakuma? When Chloe broke out of akuma (before darkness consumed her) she had a breathing problems. Marinette should have get a heart attack from something like this!
Thomas:
- Adrien - useless love interest
- Chloe - irredeemable monster
- Gabriel - misunderstood father
- Marinette - innocent angel
Fans:
- Adrien - kitten left in the dark
- Chloe - emotionally abused victim
- Gabriel - irredeemable monster and an abusive father who deserves to rot in prison
- Marinette - stalker, abuser, backstabber, terrible hero, super liar and a mary sue.
yeah and it also shows the massive misogyny: Adrien is SO MUCH MORE worse than Marinette EVER was and the fact people aren't disgusted by him and think he's an angel is proof of that
(TLDR for why Adrien sucks: He's a sexual harrasser who can't take "no" for an answer and is continously harassing a girl who has told him MANY TIMES she is not in love with him and SHE is framed as the bad guy for this because how dare she make him sad, he just can't HELP his loveeeeeee. This is so much worse than Marinette because this is a show geared at little girls, it is teaching them if a guy will not stop harassing you it's cause he geniunely loves you and your feelings don't matter at all.)
What does Mary sue mean?
@@J0k3risXD Mary Sue is a fictional female character who is perfect in every way and has no flaws whatsoever.
@@milenazon6724 Ohh okay
@@asherville7163 to be far that's a side effect of how the writers portray his crush strangely. They tend to over blow love into uncomfortable but the main reason he's liked is because of his background, being a cat and the fact that more often than not he's sidelined despited being the other half of the title. Also he doesn't always act like that😅
The ONLY way to fix Marinette's character (and many other Miraculous's problems) is to remake the show. That's why I am glad that the Miraculous Movie exists. It might not be perfect, but, it managed to make Marinette a likeable and normal person.
To me, this show is irredeemable
I didn't saw the movie, what is it about?
@@MGory828 "Just like Chloe" - Thomas Astruc, probably
@@mathiashoppe6762 It's basically a shorter, fixed version of the show by Jeremy Zag.
@@Mitt-zc8uw thanks
She made birthday presents for Adrian ready for the next _50_ years… Oh, sis… 😭😭😭
Yeah that logically is impossible 😳🤦♀️
Not to mention creepy as frick
@@aria-fantrexian5574precisely
If someone did that for me. I’d call the cops without hesitation.
But ,,imagine you knew Master Fu 's lifeline , & marinette kows she is in right timeline .., if all present giving happened as planned ,,..marinette planned her own obsellessence ,, rretirement at 60
Ironically, the more the narrative tries to get me to hate Chloe and love Marinette, the more I love Chloe and hate Marinette
That’s the formula
That is the truth. I prefer Chole anyway
@@spatuladeviousong she’s literally an icon
@@spatuladevious shes a bully even in season 1
@@itzskye7074 so she's an icon for bullying and being annoying and wanting to hurt marinette? ok
The fact that Astruc made an imaginary family with his fucking ex is INSANE! The inability to cope needs to be studied 😭
And people say that’s cute or Sabine IRL would love that
@@MGory828 im torn between sabine irl needing to know about this show solely so she knows never to be near this man ever again, not even in the same city... or hoping shes blissfully unaware of how creepy her ex Still Is about her.
He's a rather deranged individual. The fact he rages over the girl he went to school with who he based Chloe on so much he acts like Chloe is her and the fact that Marinette, his fictional daughter, is an invasive stalker... it's not a stretch to imagine WHY the IRL Chloe didn't like him. He was probably stalking her like Marinette stalks Adrien and when she wouldn't go to prom with him it set off a rage within him that he still can't let go of.
That guy needs therapy but that’ll probably never happen since he’s too damn prideful.
That explains Marinettes behavior. Like creator like creation
I swear if this had a higher rating, Marinette would have ended up as a Yandere
I wish this show had gotten canceled in the first season just so another team could pick it up and make it justice
@@barbararab6390that's not how cancelling works, it should have done like just barely well enough and then Disney may have been willing to sell the IP to another studio, if it had gotten cancelled the show would've been dead.
(edit after 9 days because I feel like I need to explain it a bit better: if the show had gotten cancelled it would have been because the show had done so poorly that it wasn't profitable to keep making it. Thus no other studio would've been willing to buy the IP either because why buy an IP that obviously wouldn't get them anything. If the show did just baaaaarely well enough that it's not logical to cancel it, but it's also right on the border of if it's that profitable to keep making it either, then Disney would most likely be willing to sell the IP)
If it had a higher rating it wouldn't exist lol
A superhero yandere?
Not gonna lie if done well i would watch that i mean a hero torn between her duty and her love would make a very good show
As a song quote once said "Were united by our love, were united by our pain" which summarizes the majority of the MLB fandom
Good quote
Yeah, that's from "To Be Human" by Marina, right?
Nope not true only the American fans are toxic like that like every country outside the USA likes it if you don't like a FRENCH show made by a FRENCH creator go write your own in your American way.
So true 😞
@@lucasgachalife0 yeah
I dropped this show when they tried to pin marionettes stalker behavior on Chloe. That was the last straw for me.
Good reason to vent
@@MGory828 Hell, that whole arc could've been interesting IF IT WASN'T JUST TO TURN CHLOE INTO THE SPAWN OF SATAN
If they made it during season 1 or 2 then it would've been in character for Chloe and would've helped both her redemption arc and Marinette's arc of coming out of her shell of terror
But Astruc is just incapable of making an actually good storyline with likeable characters or just ANYTHING positive
Dude I thought I was the only who hated it too! I also left because of not only her but for the rest of the show because of how it made me both angry and confused! Like why would you leave a interesting guy who actually cares about you only for you to go for a guy with daddy issues who should have had CPS and cops called on, and with her stalking and other problems I was like "Good thing Luka dodge a huge bomb on her" for me the only reason I watched it back many years a little bit of middle school was because of Luka, his sister, Rose, and Zoe who I always found better and interesting characters. But no instead people were like we want Marinette x Adrien! Yeah no offense but I really hated that and I'm like really!? What about their adventures?! What about Marinette learning a lesson from all the consequences she caused!? What about oh idk maybe whole show!? I don't know why Miraculous is even popular still?
I love how the writers decided to throw shade at Chloe fans by saying her trauma is no excuse for her bad behavior... in the EXACT SAME EPISODE where they would proceed to get people to excuse Marinette's bad behavior by saying it's because of her trauma. Make it make sense
Exactly! It’s a good thing I never watched that stupid episode!
As someone who's hated Marinette since season 1, it makes me so happy to see so many in the fandom finally speak out about how much of a terrible, unrelatable, and unlikable character she is.
OMG, same!!
I hated her the entire show
I only kinda liked her in the first episode, but when the other episodes came I realized she was a complete stalker
So true❤
She betrayed me, she doesn't deserves my respect after what she did to André and Chloe, what a unforgivable monster she is...!
Marinette is like a kid friendly Yandere
Sort of
@@MGory828I say kid friendly because she never killed someone or any adult rated stuff but still has the unhealthy love for Adrien like a Yandere
@@area52ron fair
If Marinette were a Yandere her theme song would be "This is Love" by Air Traffic Controller
@@hdnallstars4471 yeah
The one thing that I hate is why don't they play to Marinette's passions to make new plotlines? You could've had the premise of the Shanghai Special be that she's having a designer's block, and that coupled with the fact that she sees her mother's outfits being traditional to Chinese culture, she could be like "I want to go to learn more about my culture and to feel inspired", and maybe Adrien just happens to visit her uncle's restaurant and you could still have them interact.
You don't need to make her a weirdo to make plotlines work, you need to play to pre-established plot details to pay them off in a satisfying way. And this is why I'm going to rewrite this show in a similar but different style to the Scarlet Lady AU. Similar in the sense that I'll try to preserve storylines from the og show, but different because some of the set up won't be the same.
THIS!! It’s the fact that Marinette (and really the other characters too) don’t get to showcase their interests and passions like normal people! It would’ve been great to see more focus on Marinette’s passion for design and learning more about her heritage but Astruc chooses to just focus on her stalker tendencies ☹️
I think the writers forgot about Marinette’s interest in fashion.
In season 4, the Wishmaker episode, Marinette said she wasn’t sure what she wanted to be when she’s older which was strange because you think she wanted to be a fashion designer but, I don’t remember that interest being mentioned in the entire episode.
It makes me wonder, when even was the last time she was shown designing clothes?
@@Sparklecakes13 Season 5 Episode 19 when she showed her sketches to Gabriel, but I do see your point and I completely agree.
@@utahsrainbowsprinkles But here's the thing as well: there is an ENTIRE WRITING TEAM and not one of them ever decided to make Marinette less of a creep.
Exactly 😅 it’s like they forgot she’s into fashion or that Gabriel us a fashion designer
I think the worst part about Marinette’s reaction to Adrien saying he loves someone is the double standard Marinette is holding against him. She tells Cat off every day, which is her right, but she does it in so many cruel ways. Adrien lets it slip once that he has a crush on a girl, and it’s unacceptable. Pick a lane!
OMG,you took the words right out of my mouth
In a certain way, it almost sounds like what happen lot of time in real life...
Yeah it’s pretty hypocritical
@@novastarburst3939 incel
@@ChillyOutsideit is really funny because nowadays a person can say something like criticizing women without than a person talks about incel when it has no link with the discussion
By Season 3, I was starting to really hate Marinette. In Season 4, it was mostly the writers decisions as whole. In Season 5, the hatred for Marinette returned with the finale.
Good timeline
And you do feel bad for Cyrus the Great after all just talking about this show would have caused him to lose most of his sanity ages ago besides that he don't care at the show continues running the only thing that matters to him is for the show to finally end and hopefully get canceled because that's the only real way to save that show is cancellation
@@JustinJulian-00 Sure hope he finds some good shows to watch
Yeah I can agree with you I started to hate her a little bit in season 3 but season 4 made me hate her even more answers the congratulations to miraculous for making a such a hypocritical protagonist in my life 😊
But why ?
Marinette is the real bully of the series.
Nah she’s the main antagonist
Not even a best superhero at that Spider-Man will always be goaded over Marinette who use her powers irresponsively because where is great Powers great responsibility do you even see that in that episode
@@MGory828glad you don’t watch dragon ball z
@@CoffyThecat what dragon ball is the best and marinette this video explains
@@MGory828 what do you think of steven universe and star vs the forces of evil?
Marinette comes off as a psychopath with rage issues with how she treats chat noir in the newer seasons💀
Yep! We call that abusive leadership.
Oh yeah. Classic LB
Cat Noir was not innocent either. Him being pushy flew over my head as a kid, but after having female friends and doing self evaluation, his behavior is also creepy and uncomfortable sometimes.
@@dangerbuffrocky that's true but there were times it just felt out of place for her character to be that cruel
@@starfiresreign I do agree that she should've articulated her mannerisms better, but it's a two-way street.
No one can change my mind about Chloe being Thomas’s old school bully, why else would he lie about her not having a redemption when she actually has had one? And also he hates her so much even though she’s way younger than him and isn’t even real lol.
Just to explain: that arc was not Thomas’ doing 😅 you can sort of tell by the writer names of the episodes and the knowledge of Thomas loathing Chloe with a passion 😶
@@gracekim1998 Thomas still hates her tho, & he refuses to believe she had a redemption arc.
@@d4red3v1l8yeah i guess he just completely ignores what season 2 showed😅 I wasn’t saying Thomas stopped hating her, I’m saying having the knowledge of this fact explains why Season 2 was so different 🤷♀️ hope that makes sense (and yeah…that rumour of Chloe being based on his bully is likely true😳)
@@gracekim1998Wasn't she based on a really bad boss he had when working on a show? To me that makes more sense.
If Mari is Astruc’s fictional golden child then Chloe is definitely his scapegoat.
Whenever I see her parents and friends be fooled by her my heart starts aching. Like I feel so bad for them, can you imagine them finding out she lied about so many things because of a stupid crush? Can you imagine Adrien getting therapy and realising how awfully she treated him?(Tho that probably won't happen cause creators just want her to be viewed as perfect). I say make her realise her trauma isn't an argument and Luka call her out on stalking Adrien and not stalking him, thus proving her trauma doesn't play a role here at all. Make her apologise.
And make Adrien learn the truth and dump her
Absolutely
Yeah but then she gets mad when Lila lies?😭 I might really hate Lila but it doesn't make sense how Mari gets mad when Lila lies when she's told a ton of lies just because of Adrian
@@caitlincabzz0918 Marinette and Lila are very similar yet they hate eachother
I honestly find that interesting, it would be cool if it was expanded and important in the show
Yeah I feel bad for Luka who actually cares and loved her! But she chose to be toxic and decided to go after Adrian! I say this: "my guy Luka dodge a huge bomb" and I hope the show does get a ending where it's over and as time goes by no one will remember Miraculous! Is that harsh? Yes, but is it the truth? Obviously!
Yeah man I do feel bad for a parents because they would have needed that money so that they can take Marinette to Shanghai so that she can understand way more about herself and her heritage from her mother's side of the family but instead she only went there because of Adrian and that's it and if you've done the same thing with your parents about using that money to go with your crush instead of understanding your own heritage then you are just a bad rotten person and I wish Marinette understands that Luca will be there for her like after all he does love her and he is not a stalker he's just a regular dude who is just chill you know Luca will be the type of friend that you can chill out with why he gives off a bunch of Good vibes whenever he does his music someone who can be a best friend for life or you can be vulnerable with because Marinette and Luca did have that moment when she was vulnerable but she was more open with it and not being stuttered like she was with Adrian that's a ship that will work so well if the main writer will ever decided that Adrian and Marinette do not work anymore as a ship it consume most of our time and it's so damn tiring it just gets repetitive real fast when a ship doesn't succeed
I’m gonna say this as many times as people need to hear it.
Trauma doesn’t excuse bad behavior or actions, it could be a factor, but it should never be a get-out-of-jail-free-card.
You own up to your actions, and you fix them and improve yourself, you don’t blame it on trauma.
Yeah man kratos is a better character than Marinette for one he has done a lot of fuck up as well it has done a lot of terrible things even though everything that he has done won't be forgotten he is trying to make amends for his sins and actually confront his past to learn something from it how to improve yourself use your path as a lesson about how to be better in the future that is the true message of God of war Valhalla and he does own up for it even though people are never going to forget that and some may not never never forgive him but he is trying his best to be a better man and a better father because he is a veteran who has finally take a break from doing wars and not trying to get into fights anymore and with the blades of chaos kratos can control on how he uses them now than he does when Aries controlled them and that's a sign that your past doesn't control you anymore
trauma is not an excuse it's an explanation trauma shouldn't excuse your actions it should explain them so Mari stalking Adrien shouldn't be excused because "she's traumatised she can't help it" no you absolutley can help it go to therapy or idk do litterally anything but being a creepy stalker
And the people they blame the trauma on are people who ALSO HAVE TRAUMA hence why they ruin lives and feel in the right cus then they blame THEIR own trauma which the cycle never ends
Can't wait to see all the counter arguments the writers will make in ss6 only for those to prove that we are all right about Marinette.
I’d like to see them try. It’s not going to work. And I can say from experience. I know from the shows I’ve watched when a character is truly sorry for their actions. Marinette is not one of them.
I am a man who adores chaos
@@MGory828 Ah yes, a man of culture you are
@@Winter-Hero Indeed
Ah yes, as like lying to your lover about their father who was an evil twat is somehow better than....I don't know.....TELLING THEM THE TRUTH!? The show made me hate Marinette by season 3 and seasons 4-5 have doubled down on the hatred of her (I know that the writers and Thomas made her be that way but....god, she's such an piece of trash, it's sad.
I never saw her as a stalker for literally one reason. And its quite controversial.
Because she's a girl.
I guess when I watched this when I was a bit younger, I was so stuck on the thought of: "Only men can be creepy stalkers. When a girl does it, she just really likes him and is dedicated!"
News flash young me, women can be creepy stalkers too.
Glad you realized that isn’t an excuse. Male or female. Stalker regardless means they are creepy AF
I mean I was gonna say wait until you encounter the 45 year old Brazilian woman I was stalked by who threatened to forcefully impregnate me when I was 17 for a picture of a necklace on Instagram and only fled cause of a good timed cop siren after I threatened her for flying over to the states and to my house when I never talked about it once, but glad you get it regardless.
Of it makes you feel better, its not just you. I watched a whole series as a kid about mennwho were stalked, abused, and some killed, by women they rejected. Every one of them tried to go to the police for help snd was laughed at and called a baby.
To be fair it took me a while to catch on she was displaying stalker tendencies too😶
@@gracekim1998 same
My worst complaint about MLB isn't even really about Marinette! It's about Kagami!
Kagami is my favorite character in MLB, because I think that a lot of kids can relate to her. An introvert with little to no social skills, controlled by her strict and "uncaring" mother. She is alot like Adrien in that respect. However, the thing that I hate most about her, isn't even her fault at ALL! It's her fucking design!
Her blue hair is too reminiscent of Marinette, but her Ryuko identity is where it gets bad. The red and black accents are almost identical to Ladybug, and to top it off, Marinette got to be DragonBug, and their design is basically the same thing! It's horrible.
But what really pisses me off is the fact that her name is "Kagami". Now, don't get me wrong, I LOVE her name. It's simple, adorable, actually the right race, (Japanese) and rolls off the tongue nicely. But the Japanese meaning for Kagami is "mirror".
She's literally just a mirror to Marinette, created so that Adrien could have another love intrest that wasn't Marinette, but could make it feel like it was Marinette dating him. Astruc wanted a character to date Adrien to create "drama", but decided on another FUCKING MARINETTE.
Not that her personality is even remotely similar to Marinette, because in my opinion, Kagami is 1000x better than Marinette. I would have loved to see a series of Kagami as Ladybug and Adrien as Chat Noir that focuses on two sheltered kids being able to have fun for once.
LOVE that idea
@@phylesenavidad5714
I'm glad!
Me too! It would have been amazing to see them bond and becoming a couple or just a pair of besties (much better than you know who)
Though Kagami being Adrien's wingwoman....that would have been fun too
@@aria-fantrexian5574
I don't know what ship you ship, but I personally ship Adrigami, and would have LOVED to see Chat Noir confiding in Ryuko about a girl he likes, (Kagami), and Ryuko giving advice on how to win this mystery girl over, all the while being oblivious as to why Adrien has started to flirt with her in really specific ways.
Like, Ryuko is like, "You.. Should give this girl some flowers, maybe. And try looking into the meaning of the flowers, she might like that," and then the next day she gets some pink camellias from Adrien, who's gone online and found this random website for flower love languages and is trying to figure out which flowers means "I love you" in a poetic way.
Oh gosh you’re right 😳 Kagami’s mother doesn’t even have blue hair, they just purposely make the cool Japanese girl resemble the main character 😅oh boy
I always feel so sad looking at seasons one and two. The show wasn’t perfect but it had the potential to be a great show and then you know who came in and threw it all out. I actually started to like the idea of Adrian and Marinette having a relationship. And don’t even get me started on Chloe because she became my favorite character because of the amazing redemption arc they were setting up. So much wasted for one mans ego :/
Wasted potential at its finest
@@MGory828 yes, but you are forgetting .. adults making a cartoon for adults ,,.. i forgot to count the number of times i cried since season 3 , over marinette having succeeded in stopping Mr Agreste ~ shadowmoth from exposing everyones dreams , then getting no memory,, but no way of expressing emotive joy that her friends fell in love .,, but marinette has moments of not being able to be herself ,, tha Agreste family , Bouguese family are share holders of companies so yes Marinette spying as a commoner is legal.,, as ,marinette is nullifying Hawkemoths use of illegal insider knowledge , marinette is more a court judge.
@@acewickhamyoshi8330 sorry i'm confused by your sentence....could you phrase it in a clearer way please? also every cartoon is made by adults😅
@@gracekim1998 ok,, so as admin to many pages ,, after a while ,, one just dissapears offline as superhero job done .. no need to return ,,.. but from what i know ,..Hawkmoth / shadowmoth Monarcs perspective he is the kink finder ,.. but since our,, i ment marinettes kink is to be alone free of Adrien , a parent forgets their own family .. mr Agreste would know all that Adrien searches online ,, or is that Natelies job,, i wonder since Marinnette or Master Fu set up their internet ,, is Cat Noirs staff phone on French Wifi ,, hmm so many future storylines ..for 30 years time,.. so marinette is undetected til the miraculus is passed to the next person in 2065.. and marinette is in retirement
You know your videos make us realise ,, the more we discuss a disney show the more the bots try to interprete our discussions,, no wonder disney will keep the franchise going ,, i predict that we all contribute to the fandom ,.. even though i write elusively to confuse a bot .
I can’t believe she decided to give SUPER HERO POWERS to everyone in her class, her love rival, her bully, her 5-episodes boy toy and a girl she has only known for like, a week, but not to her middle school friend that literally was almost the only one there for her AND got expelled for standing against the girl that bullied her (I’m talking about Jocqueline).
Like she isn’t even MENTIONED before season 5 so you know damn well she was a last minute add on just like Zoey, except Zoey actually had the purpose of replacing Chloe as Queen Bee. Idk wtf Jocqueline’s purpose was.
Yesssss😂
Agreed 👏🏼
Further proof as why she shouldn't be Guardian. As she hands them out like candy when they are powerful and potentially DANGEROUS ARTIFACTS!! For all she knew, they would've tried to keep the miraculous for themselves, told someone else, or sell the miraculous for money. A better story would have been if the miraculous kept getting lost over the centuries and the holders keep finding them by chance.
@@BridgetMaranje I like that, like Juluka and Luka could have found there somewhere like Luka finding it in his moms attic that she didn't know and that is where the Snake Miraculous would be there or Juluka finding the Dragon one on a field trip and Zoe finding the Bee somewhere else before she came to Paris like those I think would make sense because think about who's to say they wouldn't make better Guardians than Stalkernett! I like your idea!
@@summersnyder5436 I'm actually working on my own rewrite where some miraculous are either lost or passed down generations. Mari's grandma found the LB miraculous, mistaking it for common jewelry, and given to Mari as a present. Amilie and her husband were former holders and the cat and dog miraculous fell out of Amilie's bag while she was visiting and Adrian and Felix find them (They are twins in my AU). Chloe finds the Bee miraculous while cleaning out her mom's old closet, with a picture of her great grandma wearing it. Chloe later gets hospitalized by Mayura and her identity gets compromised, so she lends it to Zoe, while their dad (Zoe and Chloe are also identical twins in my AU) accidentally gives Chloe a new miraculous as a get well present, not knowing it was magic (I thought a Phoenix would be fitting, seeing as how Chloe's character was burned to ashes.)
Marinette needs karma!! (Like don't get me wrong in the first seasons she was likeable) but after that, she's at fault for Chloe's downfall for siding with HawkMoth, using his powers for personal gain for the sake of Adrien and even broke out of his house, caused the akumas more than Chloe, and forgave Gabriel, who has neglected the fuck out of his son and terrorized innocent lives for a year, especially her trauma got justified because stalking as if it's was okay)
Her karma will be beautiful
But someone with PTSD would react to the place or certain an event that gave them PTSD in the first place because PTSD people wouldn't be stalking and like I said that is just you being creepy
@@JustinJulian-00yeah the show’s writers doesn’t seem to understand how PTSD works 😅
Alexa, play Karma Police by Radiohead.
@@Brotherofthe4thCompany Heck yeah!
Thomas thinks everybody loves Marinette when in reality everybody hates her. She has quickly become the most hated female MC’s of all time go watch pretty cure sky you will enjoy that way more
Shadybug managed to be more interesting than Marinette in 40 minutes
Easily
No shit Buddy
Exactly cuz she manages to make me gay in only a movie
But I still simp for Felix don’t get me wrong
@@Just_Green42588 okay then
LMAOOOOO
Can we talked about marinette literally lied to her parents of going to her uncle's bday just to see adrien in shanghai😃
You know what Marinette could have benefited from her parents that they went to Shanghai they would have told her about Shanghai culture her people they could even teach her how to speak Chinese having a focused time on her and her family so that we can see more family Dynamics with her like we should have gotten in that Shanghai movie instead of her obsessing over Adrian
BWAHAHA I REMEMBER THAT LMFO XO
And getting upset when that one girl (I forgot what her name is) stole her miraculous she was crying like “how could you?!?!” But she has stolen herself for her own gain as well.
@@JustinJulian-00 They could've even done it as a Chinese New Year's special where her parents finally raised enough money to visit Sabine's parents for the celebration but Marinette is worried that she won't be able to connect with her maternal grandparents since she doesn't know much about her Chinese heritage.
As if it were her only chance to ever see him or something . . . like. Girl. HE SITS THREE FEET IN FRONT OF YOU EVERY DAY. Just talk to him at school. You know, like a normal person
as if Marinette being a deranged creep/stalker wasn't bad enough, the fact that Thomas Astruc sees her as his "daughter" and went outta his way to create a fictional family with his ex just adds more layers to how much of a creepy lunatic he actually is in real life. seriously, i feel like this guy needs to be on a watchlist at this point.
fr
ewww what?! i knew thomas was such a toenail but a character is based off his ex with a fictional character?! WTHHHH HELP
FR!
He really needs therapy, a LOT of therapy...
Lets be honest here. for the wax museum episode if it was a male protagonist being like "that" to a female character, the episode wouldn't even have aired in the first place. because when a girl does it, its "quirky" and "funny", but when a guy does it, then suddenly it's disgusting, creepy and weird. This behaviour is bad no matter what the gender of the character is and you can't tell me otherwise.
Yeah! There is zero excuse for that male or female.
That's just zero excuses for anybody of any gender to stalk someone and I cannot condone it at all
Nu uh!! How else will the Ovary Protection Propaganda be spread??
IT WAS CREEPY AND WEIRD, but she didn't know it was Adrien so it's a real s3ggsual assault.
Oh my God, that's true, the double standards are crazy... We all agree that she is creepy right? It's creepy in any way to try to kiss someone's statue! My God, go take some fricking therapy or something!
And people wonder why I hate Marisue. Thank you for making this video, more people need to know how bad she is and not defend most of her actions
Glad I can help
Just being honest I don't hate Marinette for being a character I just hate the way that she is written and that's why people do not like Mary Sue's they just hate the way that the characters are written not hating on the other gender itself because that is the main issue with these characters
@fynchan11of course because she is a fictional character and it's really very pathetic to get this worked up over a character that is.not even real....
@fynchan11I agree! She is the worst character as Charlie from Hazbin hotel!! Both are annoying judging selfish hypocrites
They are literally the same!! Instead Charlie doesn't have stalker tendencies as Marinette.
And some of Charlie's fans are insanely too.
@@ShoukoNishimiya17Hazbin Hotel as MLB are both poorly written shows
Astruc's fictional daughter will not be saved!! ☕🌸
Allow me to quote a Jake Daniels song:
“There is nothing that could Save Ya.”
If I got to be honest with you the show itself is beyond redeemable there is nothing anyone can do to redeem this show even Cyrus the Great doesn't have any hope that the show will get any better and besides that he has done a lot of videos on miraculous ladybug and how awful the show is and a quote by him just because it's a kid's show it doesn't mean the bad writing can't be excused
@@JustinJulian-00 Honestly, I agree with both you and Cyrus the Great. Low-key saw it when season three premiered once upon a time ago. Not many will agree with me, but the only reason why people continue watching the show, it's for Adrienette's canonization, the reveal and trashing Thomas's writing decisions.. Honestly, the only thing saving this show [besides the fanfics, rewrites, comics and redesigns] is Thomas Astruc and Jeremy Zag rebranding the entire series.
I mean it's astruc's daughter, no wonder she's so bad
@@UnholyGrave834 Actually I can assure you that most people WILL agree with you. In fact most miraculous fans simultaneously hate the show.
And in my experience a lot of people don’t care for or like Adrienette so it’s really just to see a terrible show continue to crash and burn.
See, this is why I like fanfiction. Most of the fanfic I've read for MLB is actually fun content to consume and does not make all the characters all messed up and crazy. Most actually fix what the show did.
Fans know how to write better than professionals in this community
The mlb cast are nether professionals nor writers
Is there some sort of app or web site where I can find Miraculous fanfictions. I have heard so much good about them & they have sounded interesting to me.
@@nameless6232 I would recommend ao3, it has an amazing filtering system so you can find what you want and filter out what you don't like. I've also found some good stuff on tumblr. Hope you find something good!
@@nameless6232 archive of our own is a good place for it
I'll put this comment separate from the other, not only Marinette is a bad character with bad writing she's the "MariSue" , Adrien is writed as a spainless love obsessed kid, Alya as a cloud chaser, Nino as a pick me a cup boyfriend, wont comment on Chloe cause its painful to see, and all the hypocrite friends on the friend group, idk the more you watch and go deep on dialogues and history it gets worse and worse , too many plotholes
That’s MLB
@@MGory828yeah but still I think Luka and his sister were more interesting and I feel like Luka should have gotten justice because he actually genuinely cares about Marinette and even was fine with her not liking him back! Bet yet the creator decided to ruin that, for me I rather learn more about Zoey, Rose, Luka and his sister than Marinette and the whole show, I know it's an unpopular opinion but Luka, his sister, Rose and Zoey was the only people in the shos I like, again unpopular opinion I know
It now makes me thing that Mari is basically both what Thomas wish his daughter to be. While, at the same time, is his self insert.
Because I suspect this is why he not only has a girl he hates so much he makes a character of her to villainize and harass. AND another woman (who is his ex) to be his "wife" with his other self insert.
His obsession greatly matches Mari's. Her actions in the show is possibly some sort of unintentional confession. Or at least him trying to find justification for what he WISHES he could do towards these women in his life.
an actual IRL creep. why is this weirdo still finding work??
This is why I loved the Miraculous movie so much. It removes so much of what's wrong with the show and especially Marinette. Adrien and Chat Noir are actually important to the story. He and Marinette/Ladybug bounce off each other really well and genuinely feel like a team, unlike the show which treats Ladybug like she's the royal queen of superheroes and Chat Noir is her useless sidekick that's there just for the sake of being there. And best yet, Marinette doesn't stalk Adrien. She has her crush on him yes, but she doesn't stalk him and obsess over him. Her crush on him is a healthy one. And another fantastic thing, Adrien and Marinette reveal their identities to each other at the end of the movie and get together. I fucking despise the bullshit of them not being allowed to reveal their identities and the movie goes to show that it could be a good thing, better even for them to know rather than to keep it a secret from each other. Not to mention the show put its fans through years of "will they won't they" and it's beyond annoying
The movie really felt like a breath of fresh air
Plus the main leads gained injuries in the movie! (Curse you whump fanfics!)
@@aria-fantrexian5574 AND, Gabriel got arrested! And not turned into a hero like in the season 5 finale.
@@selmabm3409 i was so glad Adrien was present when he was unmasked in the movie
@@gracekim1998 yup and movie Gabriel apologised to his son instead of yeeting him to the stratosphere like his show version
Season 2 was the best season of the series then marinette become a psycho and chloe was assassinated with chat noir too
Welcome to MLB
Chat noir being assassinated is by far the worst thing this series has done. Would rather they had at least kept him as comedic relief like season 1. Now he’s just.. bleh
@@exoticeditz8863 the creators ruining chloes redemption arc still pains me
@@N0peto3the worst part is that it's thommas' fault that everything went downhill after season 2, since S2 wasn't mainly written by him
Marinette: *makes hand crafted gifts for Adrien’s next 50 birthdays*
Also Marinette: *is a month late to Mother’s Day and uses her moms own money to buy her a gift*
For Marinette imagine if adrian finally stayed away from her
That’s a miracle
@@MGory828which is ironic, isn't it MIRACULOUS Ladybug?
Yeah, it's only a hope... He's lost. The whole show is lost and is never gonna come back.
The only reason the "identity rule" exist is because if these two knew who each other is, they'd immediately broke up.
Yep
The only reason the identity rule exists is to drag the show out by will they or won't get together it took like what? 5 seasons for them to get together. Coincidence? I THINK NOT!
Another moment that I consider a Mary Sue moment because I’m positive she won’t receive any consequences for doing this
Lying to Adrien about Gabriel and what Adrien is. She has 0 right to keep that from him and the fact that Thomas and other people think this is okay because it’s “protecting his happiness” is total bs, they’re removing Adrien of any agency and actively withholding development from him nor allowing him the right to come to his own conclusions and deal with his own feelings, they’re over sheltering and controlling him
She, Nathalie, Felix, and Kagami are frankly no better than Gabriel in that regard,
This is a very good point and if the writers get good for some reason this would lead to a break up and character development in season 6
Precisely 😅 it’s why I’m grateful for the miraculous movie
And some people wonder why we don't like Show!Mari anymore....
Oh noooo, Kagami gained the idiot stick treatment since season 4...
she has if the flop of Adrien will be akumatize and destroy the world again like in CB and ephemeral.
the difference between her and (Nathalie, Felix, and Kagami), she the less interesting
So worth the wait MG! And I’m with you not hating Marinette at first. In seasons 1 and 2. She was chill and even likable. But then 3, NYS, season 4 and 5 came along. And all that respect of thinking Marinette was amazing back then turned to pure black hatred! Like a solar eclipse. But without any light.
Indeed
Definitely same
Yeah same
Kim Possible and Sailor Moon are what she wishes to be.
Edit: Holy Flippichino, Batman! I'm famous!!
Fr, fr. Ron Stoppable, despite being supposed to be the silly sidekick and less capable than Kim, is actually treated with more respect than Chat Noir, who is supposed to be Ladybugs Partner. Ron gets several episodes, in which he saves the day, his own arch enemies and several special talents of his own. The entire KP movie is actually about how important Rons help is and how Kim isn't as effective without him. Meanwhile poor Chat Noir doesn't even get to be a part in the season 5 Finale.
It is also really weird how Kim is both more relatable and less of a Mary Sue than Marinette, eventhough Kim is supposed to be extraordinary and ridiciously talented. Yet the KP series let's its maincharacter actually struggle, not only with her villains but also with belivable teenage problems and gives Kim real consequences for messing up.
@@regenbogenwolf True. Despite all of Kim's talents and the tagline "she can do anything", she struggles a lot. She isn't perfect and many times, she needs Ron and/or Rufus to aid her. Ron is just called the sidekick but like you said, even he gets more respect compared to Chat Noir (the show says that he and Ladybug are equals but that isn't true. He's more often used as a punching bag/meat shield/victim to be used against LB).
Also, the romance between Kim and Ron is SO much better.
Sailor Moon is WAY BETTER than Miraculous.😆🌙✨💗 Usagi Tsukino/Sailor Moon is a better written female protagonist because She started out as a crybaby not wanting to fight bad guys but she transitioned into a strong young woman, becoming a the most powerful sailor guardian and protecting her dear friends. I think she’s a wonderful hero, also she’s written by a woman.😊🥰Unlike Miraculous, It’s created by a man child and guys have no idea what’s inside a girl’s head.😒🤦🏻♀️
@@Biancalovestosew98 I'm a guy, and that last sentence honestly made me chuckle.
@@HyperHeroesYT are you offended? If so then I’m sorry.
One thing I hate about this show is how it could have gone right. Being a stalker is a HUGE flaw in her character. The problem was the show never stripped it away.
I wish Adrien had been the main character, because you can see that he’s trying to change. He went from being extremely sheltered to trying to make friends and trying to be normal. He feels real. The show used Cat Noir to make Adrien better, and that’s how it should be…
Marinette though…
We’ve seen that Marinette is a lot better of a character as Ladybug, because she shows herself work smarter and be more collected (Though she’s a bit of Mary Sue as Ladybug).
But unlike Adrien, none of those traits transferred to Marinette. Cat noir made Adrien less sheltered and more brave. Ladybug didn’t change Marinette at all. She’s still a stalker all these seasons later. She just comes across as a Mary Sue with too many issues.
To fix Marinette, I would
1. Transfer the good traits of Ladybug into Marinette to progress her character
2. Give Marinette other struggles than just secrets and her boy crush. Make her feel real. She could have times where her other life hurts her family, or makes her fall behind. Show us that she’s not little miss perfect and “I can do everything!”
3. The stalker behavior has to go. She could realize how unhealthy she’s being and how she’s making her situation worse. Progress her in a normal way with Adrien
Okay thats all.
Marinette is one of the worst characters in the show! The world has to revolve around her! She's a total creep! She's more focused on getting a date with the guy she's obsessing over instead of doing her job and tracking down the villain, which is way MORE IMPORTANT!! Hello, what about Adrien, the other main character who is way more interesting?! You know since his dad is the villain! Seriously, what's more interesting to watch, A superhero team working together to stop a Villian bent on destroying the world,or a stupid girl trying time and time again to get a date?🤦 They should really rewrite the whole show, it's the worst. I think the Shadybug and Claw Noir special was good, I enjoyed their personalities. Heck,at least in the Scarlet Lady AU, Mari wasn't a creep like she is in the show.
She’s a mess
The Scarlet Lady AU felt like what the writers had in mind for the characters and it just didn't translate well from concept to screen writing.
Yes sir Marinette and Caillou belong in this category of being God above their own show they going to do what they want treat their friends and parents or siblings like shit they don't get the stuff for the consequences that they get and they get rewarded at the end instead of getting punished I never like Caillou for its theme song how the character was portrayed and how he treated those around him and why do people even make him if I were to go back in time in Canada then I would have make sure that Caillou never existed then we wouldn't have many kids that are just like him
@@MGory828I agree and even @user-oy6he1qs8b is right! She is the worst character as Charlie from Hazbin hotel!! Both are annoying judging selfish hypocrites
They are literally the same!! Instead Charlie doesn't have stalker tendencies as Marinette.
THEY GOT THEIR ADULT POWERS JUST BY WANTING IT BAD ENOUGH?? Y'know I think I'm glad I stopped watching S5 part way through
Yeah 😅 agreed
Yeah save your sanity and not watch this dumb show it's the only way it can be safe is by not watching it
I save my sanity not watching s3, s4 and s5
Glad I fucking did-
I'm just there for Adrien
The first episode of season 5 could have honestly ended the show but no Gabriel had to make a stupid decision to go after the miraculouses instead of just saving his wife and preventing every mistake ever made in miraculous ladybug. Seriously all he have to do was save his wife and everything would have been happy.
Yeah 😣 he became too power hungry…which would have worked better if it was written well
Can you tell me what miraculous it is that will give you any power that you want and if you do please let me know because Gabriel could have used that miraculous to give himself the ability to resurrect his wife instead of taking the ladybug and cat noir miraculous so that way he can finally bring her back and then we can understand her more as a character because we're tired of the mystery of why his wife is still in comatosis that's been happening for way too long now can you please just give us something that we hope for right now is for Adrian's family to be important
Well at least Natalie called him out on it
To be honest, this could potentially work.
Like how he got obsessed with power and forgot why he even wanted that power in first place.
That WOULD be cool, but writing in this show is too shitty to make this work (excluding first 2 seasons, they were enjoyable)
@@gracekim1998 They said it in the show
When my friend and I watched this show and got to season 5, we would both go "how will the universe bend over backwards to ensure a win for Marinette".
It’s ridiculous
i really am not a fan of the “Character loses all higher brain function and becomes a stuttery mess around their crush who remains completely oblivious to this behavior” trope. I just- don’t find it cute or endearing in the slightest, and I find it incredibly hard to be invested in a dynamic if half of said dynamic is complete brain mush whenever the other half is around. That’s not compelling to me. I can’t get reasons to want these two together if there’s no interactions that get legitimate chemistry going. Of course, when i figured out that was really all this show wanted to be centered around, i lost any interest i had pretty quick lol
Now you see why I hate Adrienette
The way Marinette looks like the Chick-fil-A girl on the thumbnail. I'm dying of laughter.
Good choice
3:04 Marinette also shares the same English VA as Ren Yamai from Komi Can't Communicate, another character whose main trait is being overly obsessed with one of the main leads. They're both terrible people, but at least Yamai gets called out for her bs, and the show doesn't try to justify her actions.
I've never seen Miraculous Ladybug in my life, but I live for video essays and the songs you chose for the background ARE ALL AMAZING ASS CHOICES
Why thank you
Bittersweet fact:
Marinette and Verosika aren’t the only characters who are voiced by Cristina. She also voiced Tulin in ‘The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom’.
The sweet side, being that Tulin is my favourite Sage and the arc he goes through. The bitter side is that he’s voiced by the same person who voiced Marinette and I question, “Did Cristina even know what the script in ‘Derision’ was implying?”.
Sailor mars , Bennett and Xingqiu from Genshin impact as well , I think killua too
@@kitsuneayanodon't forget Shantae and Risky Boots
@@kitsuneayano Also Darkness from Konosuba.
Implying?
@@dylansharp8471 that it’s okay to stalk someone if you have a tragic backstory.
i remember being so disturbed by the Marrinette and Adrien statue scene that even as a kid i turned the show off and stopped watching it completely. People have to remember that kids minds are still developing and its bad to show kids things like that and paint it as a completely okay thing to do, so i'm glad that someone talked about it :)
great vid btw you got a new sub
Yeah man I have also seen that seen where Marinette just walks at Adrian pertain to be a statue and then kissing him as a statue that's just nasty and creepy as hell I would be like Adrian and jump as well if I can kiss like that while I'm pertaining to be a statue and people with impersonable minds think that this stuff is okay we need to give him that jolt of that stuff is wrong man we shouldn't be stalking anyone like this even if it a boy or a girl
Ur mind still develops until ur 25.
@@JustapersonnamedKaiyour is still developing at 25+ it doesn't stop at 25 that was disproved
As a writer who loves characters, I absolutely agree with you.
Bet!
The same people who condemn Chloe for acting the way she does with trauma will excuse Marinette and praise her. It's the textbook definition of double standards.
Chloe is a monster let's admit. We're not saying Marinette isn't.
@@Prominence2.0 That's what I say I am kinda a stalker victim myself so mari isn't a great person even if she has trauma but the same people forgive chloe because of her trauma I have met 1000 of mari haters but everyone loves Chloe I admit it she deserved a redemption arc but season 5 Chloe was horrible while mari got a little development. The show itself could've written 10X better than now I Wish Thomas stops writing rathe Jeremy writes he wrote the movie it was good also the shanghai special was the worst.
@@milky_tea7678 fr and I'm sorry that you experienced that :(
@@Prominence2.0 I am fine now but thanks. People literally forgive chloe for everything because of her trauma I'm not saying mari is an angel she stalks and it's not a very nice thing but mari could be sweet caring and supportive to and s4 and mari stopped stalking and about chloe she has never been nice when when she was given a second chance rather she teamed up with lie la or may I say cerise
@@milky_tea7678 bruh, lo mismo ocurre con Marinette. Le perdonan a todo a Marinette por pasar un trauma. Qué diferencia hay?
I just honestly don't understand how shows or films continue to make the "mean girls" more likeable and relatable than the main character. Sierra and Veronica (Sierra Burges), Belly and Taylor (TSITP) Ginny and Abby (Ginny and Georgia), Marinette and Chloe. All those secondary characters had more depth and realism than any of the main ones
When in doubt blame the French.
More like blame Astruc. And congrats on first comment
@@MGory828 thanks m8.
@@MGory828thanks for your good videos my brethren.
They did surrender to the Germans in World War II. There’s a why they’re called “Cheese eating surrender monkeys.”
As a French, I approve this message 👍
to be honest i don't quite get why she was written to be a creep but it could've maybe worked if they just gave simple consequences to her actions and acknowledge things were wrong, as someone who's been watching miraculous since i was a kid i'm glad when i watched it as a kid i knew her actions were wrong because i fear that this show could push this behaviour onto children.
That choice will forever be disgusting
i feel like at this point they should've cut the stalker plotline out because it adds nothing but...derision..and that's just a pond of bad writing
@@Cinnamonraisin_Bagelthat’s my fear too😣 especially when young children watch it too😢
@@gracekim1998 I remember i heard a mother ban the show for their kids because of Mari's stalking what is interesting to say the least
@@Cinnamonraisin_Bagel honestly I thought mari's stalking could have been a good shock lesson because most of us are in mari's pov in the show. we generally understand her thought process and how she explains or justifies the behavior to herself and because mari is generally a good person who is cute and helpful and awkward but means well...we don't see her as a threat...her friends dont see her as a threat either and think its romantic or let it slide because they trust her character.
but I though it would have worked where mari gets away with it and not realizing the issues in her behaviour for a while...just for it to blow up in her face where adrien finds out mari has kind of been treating him like a celebrity crush. that she'skindof treated him as a love interest first anda friend second fearing the friendzone...how its easy to tell yourself its not abig deal when your anonmous and the crush doesnt know so you think your not bothering them...
where we see side affects from her NOT being honest with her feelings and lying to his face...like if anything I felt adrien had put civilian mari on a pedistal because he thought she saw him properly...when in fact her rose tinted glasses often warped her view of him a bit.
the show directly has adrien face consequences when he messed up or does something wrong in how forward and open he is about his crush...where usually LB calls it out directly or the show punishes him more directly... but always has him realize where his action was wrong.
while mari holding back her feelings, doing stuff whre he can't see it, collecting info from afar on the surface seemslikethe better choice since its not bothering adrien like how chat's way bothered LB....but then they culd have a shock where it catches up to her and it blpows up in her face where he genuinely does get pissed and hurt. over how she handled it. and it points out the negatives from how mari handled her crush..like her not having a proper accurate picture of who he is in her head because she struggled to talk to him properly...and how her view aboid looking down on the friendship part for fear of a freindzone and jumping steps could have issues. and how even if your feelings coem from a sincere place..handling it the way mari did could make your sincere feelings come off as shallow where its more like a celebrity crush type.
it would work as a contrast to eachother like yin and yang and have more impact becuase alot of us DO not realize how far we goa times and how its easy to justify ourself or others to enable and not call the behaviour out because WE think we are fine/believe we are being harmless.
but then the stupid episode of ehr repressed trauma came to try to justify and explain it when mai being afraid of vulnerability so collecting info from afar IS already relatable and ow plent of teens can act around a crush! boundaries can be hard to realize when its alot easier to collect info on people now adays
That's why when it comes to Disney channel female mcs Luz Noceda will forever be the goat
Hands down.
@@MGory828 LMAO I didn't even know you liked TOH lol, I just saw the title and wanted to gas up my goat
Luz for the win! Though I'd add Eda, Amity and Willow as great female characters into the list
@@mmmrrreeeooowwwthecat8183 Been a fan for over a year. Even made my own story for TOH
@@aria-fantrexian5574 also good choices
Marienette be on that crazy shit no cap.Lets talk about how many thing she stole from people in the first three seasons alone. Marinette has literally stolen multiple things and nobody calls her a thief. Kagami "steals" Adrien and is thought of like a criminal. Lets be real. Girl a full ahh criminal.
She's worse than a criminal...
It’s the fact how when cat noir confesses to ladybug and she’s mean to him instead ppl are like, “she’s absolutely right u can’t force someone to like you” but when Adrien rejects Marinette in a nice way and she acts dramatic ppl are like “omg he’s so blind he’s a terrible boyfriend
I just love the random "goofy" censor sound it cracks me up EVERY TIME omg
Especially at 20:13 - 20:45 & 49:20 - 49:39
Those are comedy gold in my eyes.
Petition for Lukadrien to happen. They lowkey have more chemistry. And they don't even go to school together.
REAL. They deserve each other. Not Assholenette
they're *cousins,* aren't they?
@@christopherbravo1813 No. No they are not.
@@Miss_Agana Right, I got Luka mixed up with Felix. My bad.
As a Lukanette shipper, I approve. Lukadrien over Adrienette ANY day. 💙💚
Marinette is such a perfect representation of how much of an out-of-touch weirdo Astruc is. He's a rich guy who still has a grudge on his middleschool bully and wrote a protagonist based on the imaginary child he fantasized about having with his ex. Of course she would be a rich spoiled brat who calls herself a normal person. Of course she would be a creepy stalker with a complete disregard for boundaries. And of course the universe within the show would love and praise her every step along the way. Because the writers think this behavior is good. They think it's normal. It's normal to Astruc.
Great video MG! In the beginning I didn’t hate Marinette but when season 3 and 4 happened it made me hate her. Maribrat deserves karma. Luz from TOH, Sofia from Sofia the First, Elena from Elena of Avalor, Anne from Amphibia and the MLP main girls are so much better female MCs. Unlike Ladybrat, they do the right thing, are kind and have character development. And when they have their villains in their finales, they defeated them, unlike her when she forgave a terrorist.
Could you imagine if it was a guy treating a girl like Marinette treats Adrian?
Gender don't matter on who gets stalk both are equally creepy either way
Why is the power system soooo bad here? Besides the fact that the lore is so minimal it's a miracle that they have it in the first place. I don't want to bash my head with the bunny and the snake but there's this tiny other thing that frustrated me along with the others from the fandom:
WHY ARE THEY SO MANY!? Not only it creates bloat in the ensemble with the kwamis and the class but some of them don't even need to be there!
If I were a writer, I'd have the Miraculous be seven max at least in Paris while the villians can be on the supernatrual or mystical kind....because Gabe was soooo tiring after season 2!
If they wanted to have mutiple seasons, at least they should have done that!
Yeah you have a point there🤔
Yeah. Honestly I might even have less than that; probably 5 or 6 at most. There should not be enough miraculous for everyone in the class to get one.
There were only 3 seasons, but the show got extended to now having at least 8.
@@dangerbuffrockyyeah season 5 was originally going to be the last and then potatoes
@@gracekim1998 They could have just finish Gabe as Hawk Moth by season two and make the following seasons lore-heavy but noooo...
I know its an obvious point but Marinette forgives Gabriel for almost killing her, abusing his son who is her crush then keeps the dark past as secret from said boy for no reason, and then she tunrs around and Cloe, a teenage girl who hanst thretaned her life and saftey, is unforgivable
Second way less important point, Marinette is a fashon designer and despite possesing the ability to choose what her Ladybug costume looks like she sticks to the UGLIEST most BALBDEST more UNISPIRED design ever, good job Marniette, so fashon of you
Another thing I forgot to say is that the miraculous costumes don't look good the design of them are just too simple and a bit bland like I can give you examples of characters with better costume designs than miraculous Spider-Man Batman iron Man and probably many more but their costumes that they have gained over the years like Spider-Man's iron spider armor iron Man Endosymbiote armor and Batman's hell-bat armor but they need to bounce out the complexities and some simplicity of costume designs so that their design is not too simple and not too complex just something in the balance
And since the miraculous are magic Base anyone who wears the jewelry should be able to change the designs of their costumes every once in awhile because the ladybug and cat noir have the blindness costume designs can they at least change their designs when they do the transformation phase next time
@BreadBush I agree like wtf?!! She is the worst character as Charlie from Hazbin hotel!! Both are annoying judging selfish hypocrites
They are literally the same!! Instead Charlie doesn't have stalker tendencies as Marinette.
Her entire show is terrible, so it's no surprise that Marinette is terrible herself.
Damn right
Even since I first saw the ending of season 3 I trough making Marinette the guardian was a cheap way of trying to give her more ''relevance'' in the story.Because up to that point all the importants things of the story were making Adrien more relevant;He is Chat Noir ,His father is the villian, his father's assistant is the other villian ,his mother is the main goal of the villian ,his cousin and aunt obviously knowing Gabriel has something to do with the akumas,while all Marinette had in that moment was just being Ladybug. Is like if they realized how much relevance they gaved Adrien at that moment that they needed to do something to give Marinette more relevance so she could stand out more than him.And it makes no sense because Fu wasn't even a real guardian since he never finnished his training! So obviosly she should have never became a guardian.But oh well Miraculous Logic 🤷🏻♀
exactly
And they made Fu so pathetic. Like an anti zordon. He’s suppose to be much older and should’ve been smarter than that. Like imagine if they used good writing to have a fail safe plan and it actually came to me today.
Say Hawkmoth did find him before the mess with Chloe but the box he had was empty and a fake with not sensing the miraculouses anymore, leading Hawkmoth to believe he’s been chasing after a fake or decoy all this time. When in reality Fu had the kwami’s hide away in time without renouncing his guardianship. Can also give him time to finish his training and for the heroes to seek outside help.
The fact that Mari has very supportive parents who own the best bakery in the whole town, her uncle is a world class chef, her bestie Aliya has the most famous vlog channel in the city, her crush is a famous model, she is a superhero, she is pretty, she has so many friends who are also superhero as well, how tf she has trauma ? Oh that bullying she faced from Chloe ? Still it doesn't make any sense why she is so so so so over obsessive and such a huge stalker.
Everything that needed to be said was said. It really does make me miss season 1 and 2 Marinette because she wasn't being the forced "kind helpful person loved by everyone". Worst part is that every-time she does act like this, the show wants to make you believe it's for a selfless reason to be helpful, when it's in fact for a selfish reason that benefits her.
The boys only party : She wanted to get in Adrien's room
Forcing Kagami to reconcile with Adrien: She wanted to see Adrien in the pool
And other stuff like the twins birthday, Chloe becoming a villain were also pretty bad.
But the most annoying one so far, was the diamond dance. Girl, stole Zoe's identity, snuck (yet again) into a private event uninvited, all just so she could tell Adrien two words she could've said to him the next day at school or by text. She could've waited one night but noooo, she had to make a scene in front of all the guests and not only did she not suffer consequences, she didn't consider she could've gotten both her boyfriend and her friend in trouble with their parents. And she still wonders why Gabriel doesn't like her.
I don't think you understand how much this is becoming common and I love it so much she treats her partner abusively and yes cat noir flirts way too much but the way she goes about it is really wrong, constant down talk on Chloe for other actions other miraculous holders have done after her it's just her personal bias against Chloe, shes a Mary Sue I don't think I need to say much more about that, and her most egregious offense is being a stalker; but those people don't know anything, crushes don't have birthday plans for their 60th birthday, have a layout of their crushes schedule with their exact time and dates and don't use their superpowers to break into their home and sniff their pillows. That's not having a crush that's called full-blown creepy stalking but this would make for an interesting character if she faced consequences, I'm pretty sure we can see that she faces little to no consequence. However not all main characters have to be good people just good written characters unless this show was made for children and it's supposed to be their role model; and by the time that we do address the stalking date excuse it with fake PTSD and ruin another character who honestly wasn't that interesting to begin with. Marinette is a bad person that the show tries to write off as a good person which in turn makes her a bad character. However that's only Marinette if I were to even talk about the power system the story and the other characters I would be here for an hour
Maybe I will make a power system video. That can be good content
@@MGory828 my head hurts just thinking about it also a fun fact remember when Alex became time tagger when she accidentally rolled over the clock you know the miraculous that is invincible
@@MGory828 Yes please!
@@Keith_Norman The show for sure made a retcon after season 1. It was supposed to be a normal pocket watch but naah, it was a Miraculous the whole time....It doesn't make sense!
I don't get why Jeremy Zag is still working with Thomas. He's clearly a better writer than him
as someone who's watched the Miraculous movie myself.... he might be waaay better than Thomas in every way... but he still has a long way to go with his writing skills
Growing up is realizing Marinette is a literal yandere!
The whole “Marinette’s trauma 🥺” thing was so badly written and last minute. Of course the show needed an excuse for her creepy behaviour, and they came up with the laziest excuse ever. They legit just shoved it in there when it had no trace of existing before.
@@DarkShadow-hy6iq it’s a mistake!
Ikr it felt so forced and there was no trace or hints leading to it (sorry for my wording but you know what I'm saying)
For example Angel Dust from Hazbin Hotel (I'm sorry if you don't like the show or him) is an SA victim and he turns to hypersexuality as a way to gain back agency he lost in his abuse as a result makes other people uncomfortable. He even went too far to the point it led to harassment but he got called out for it, although an apology would be nice but them calling him out for it was enough to tell me it's negative and should never be done to anyone and we know where it stems from so even though you don't like him, you know where it's from.
Or Isabela from encanto, I hate her so much mainly because she treats Mirabel like trash, forces her to apologize for "ruining" Isabela's life intentionally to hurt Mirabel's feelings and they neither make Isabela apologize nor call her out for it but I know it stems from how Abuela is moulding her to be her mini copy which also makes her copy Abuela's ideals.
The truth,you spoke nothing but the truth. They destroyed her character beyond comprehension. Poor Adrien.
How Thomas has the guts to do what he did and still defend Mari is beyond me. For goodness sake Tikki claimed Mari is the best Ladybug she had ! I mean HELLO,Astruc had the audacity to have Tiki claim that after saying the past Ladybugs were a Saint and JESUS. The Son of God. What is WRONG with him!? 🤷😠😳🤯🤦
I agree with everything you said,we can only hope this Show gets the remake it deserves,it had potential the fans used better than the writers and Astruc.
I speak the truth
Wait, wait, wait, as a Christian, I need you to back up.
Thomas Astruc, that egotistical man written Jesus Christ as a past Ladybug???
YET HAS THE AUDACITY the utter audacity to claim Marinette is the best? What?!
That's utterly ridiculous! Utterly ludicrous!
Wait sorry one of the ladybugs was Jesus?😮 that honestly sounds cool. I’m guessing by Saint you mean Joan of arc right?
@@gracekim1998 Yes I mean her. About Jesus It was,If I remember correctly,on a post of his mentioned. Also in the photos when It was talked about the Miraculous and the previous hosts it showed some famous figures as past holders.
Are you certain its Jesus, not Jeanne D'Arc?
No one ever talks about the episode Riposte. In the episode Marinette trys to take fencing and Adrien says Marinette your supposed to touch me. And after he says that Marinette giggles and says touch you then she moans after..... That is the episode when Kagami first comes into the show.
Other than that, there's also Animestro where Marinette teamed up with Chole to stop Kagami for bonding with Adrien which.....WHY!? (Ignoring the fact that Tommy would have been writing Chole being bad on purpose because he doesn't know how personal growth works). Marinette doesn't try to be friendly or just help her parents because apperantly she thinks that Kagami is as bad as Lila when she's not (sigh....what a jealous dog)
@aria-fantrexian5574 I hate that episode because Thomas is being a big baby in it just like in real life. And the writing for that episode is horrible.
@@katelynallison6036 Exactly! Maribrat is a jealous witch for treating Kagami like that
No one talks enough about the diamond dance because girl literally snuck into an event, stealing Zoe identity, made a scene, just so she could tell Adrien something she could’ve told him the next day at school
@@katelynallison6036eee 😅 I’m not sure how i never noticed 😬
Kinda unrelated and I might be wrong about this but (if I remember correctly) in season 4 Gabriel says something like "the reason why ladybugs never makes any mistakes is because she NEVER takes any risks." But if you remember in season 3, She accidently leads him to master Fu while still in her ladybug costume, which is a huge risk and ends up being huge mistake which leads to him capturing master Fu, hell I think he even mocks her for her mistake during the fight when they are about to DE transform. So yeah (if I am right) this is yet another instance of the writers forgetting their own story to treat Marinette like someone who is perfect.
Stalking ain't love it's lust!
so basically BOTH marinette and Lila lust for him
@gracekim25 yeah they are definitely lusting for him
It doesn't even matter if there's lust involved or not. Obsession isn't love. Stalking is just people acting on obsession
@gloop7458 yeah I feel like she has an obsession with him
@@gloop7458I know. My point is that both girls think it’s love when it’s actually lust 😶 but yeah stalking is wrong 😣
In s6 leaks we can Marinette is still a stalker despite being with Adrien. If the show wants me to believe that Chloe will never be good, I have every right to think that Marinette will never change and will never have consequences cause she'll use her plot armor.
Sigh I kind of agree with you, the issue with Marinette is she always seems to admit she was wrong at the end of the episode but then continues to repeat that same mistake over and over again and she doesn't seem to realize this.
This is anothe reason of why despite the flaws, I consider the Movie significantly better than the show: the character act like humans would act.
Sometimes i feel tha Cat Noir shouldve been the main hero. Ladybug has done a lot of heartbreaking stuff to him. I dont think the fans would be mad if he made his own team and protected Paris.
EXACTLY!! Are we really gonna forget Chloe, Lila and Kagami?? I think imo, it should've been Chloe or Kagami be the main character, heck, we have so many yandere troupes now can we just move on from those by having villains or misunderstood characters to be in the limelight??
Kagami may fit the main character role but I would die if it's Chloe or Lila, those two will absolutely crash the show like villains into good guys or Lila being a villain and recognizing that lying leads her going nowhere and redeems her action by going to mental hospital and the new ladybug would be Chloe or Kagami.
Marinette is the child friendly version of Yuno Gasai 14 year old pigtailed stalker high schooler taking notes and breaking into her crush's house being in love with the idea of her crush all the while having little self love. The shade of pink Marinette wears is the same as Yuno's hair colour. Overall, they are both psyco and i wouldn't be surprised if Astruck watched future diery
At least Yuno has legit trauma and is entertaining to watch.
I just know if the show was made for adults, marinette would have killed Chloe, but frame it as an accident.
Here's another thing that Thomas can be considered for, creativly bankrupt that he rips designs off from other franchises: The monster that Thomas's self insert transforms into when he's pissed off that someone doesn't like Marinette is basiclly a rip off of Zarude from Pokemon, the dark coat, and green spiked vines around the wrists.
Oh yeah
I can definitely see the love you put into this video. I’m very happy for you.
Again, your fellow MLB content creator is late. Nevertheless, glad you enjoyed another VE from the horror show.
Ok with the end of season 5 the results are:
Marinette is an horrible person, but is treated like a Goddess
Gabriel is a Monster who menace to destroy Paris from 5 seasons, 1 time Shangai, 1 time NY and the whole world,
but at the end he is considered a Hero.
Chloe a child how suffer because her mother left her alone for years and said mother consider her daughter as a burden, if she could renounce to it, she will do it without thinking one second,
but at the end she is considered like a fusion of the Devil, Hitler and all the serial killers ever existed.
Adrien called a Co-protagonist and have the same value as Marinette.
But at the end he is nothing more than the love interest of the true protagonist, in the meantime he is victim of a Stalker, and is considered by the producers of the show as the damsel in distress of the season
@@furiusnecroiris701 SS5 of MLB in a nutshell:
From watching Miraculous Ladybug analysis videos, I can describe Marinette in few points:
1. Her crush on Adrien went from normal puppy love to yandere obsessive in later seasons
2. Doesn't know her boundaries
3. Her friends enabling her obsessive behavior
4. Gets no repercussions for her actions and is easily forgiven
5. Mistreats and gaslights Chat Noir in season 4(well... she was somewhat of a jerk towards him in the earlier seasons but this attitude got worse in the fourth season)
6. Is written as a Mary Sue with BS deus-ex machina moments
7. The reason her father got akumatized ( looking back on the episode "Weredad" now I know who's in the wrong)
8. Forgives Gabriel Agreste for his villainy in the finale despite all the horrible things he's done throughout the show and keeping Adrien in the dark about his father's sins
9. Her "trauma" being explored in a LATE episode to justify her stalker tendencies ( I pray for your sanity discussing "Derision"....🙏)
10. Thomas Astruc's favoritism towards the character
Marinette was actually a very bad friend. Especially towards Alya. When she met Nino at the zoo and Nino said he was in love with Alya, she immediately encouraged him to date Alya, even though Alya had clearly told her that she didn't want that. (Yes, the two ended up together, but Marinette can't just give another boy hope if her best friend doesn't want that). Then when she accidentally deleted the video on Alya's phone, she lied to Alya and stole the phone. Later, she also stole Adrien's phone and the file card from the camera during the class photos. When Juleka wanted to model, she immediately replaced Juleka when she got nervous for a moment. When they made a film for the first time, she told Chloe that she had a good idea, just so that Chloe and Adrien wouldn't kiss and she could get rid of Chloe. In general, she goes completely crazy when Adrien has something to do with a girl. When Lila lied the first time, it could have been portrayed as a girl who just wanted to impress a boy, and Marinette overreacted and humiliated her in front of that boy and then used every opportunity to badmouth Lila. She raged against Lila for what was initially an innocent lie. And whenever something happened that involved Chloe, Marinette automatically thought of Chloe as the bad guy. But when Alya was suspended, she violated Chloe's privacy. When Chloe's bracelet disappeared, she acted like Chloe was crazy. She also noticed how Chloe stood by her mother and instead of helping Chloe, she took away one of the few things that made Chloe happy because "Hawkmoth knows her identity." But she was able to keep giving the Miraculous to Kagami, Alya and Nino. And as for the video game competition, she didn't really care about the competition, but she wanted to take part in it to be with Adrien, even though she knew how much it meant to Max. When Nathanael was akumatized, she knew he had a crush on her and she went to his party anyway and deliberately gave him hope. And a lot of people were akumatized because of her. And it was totally stupid of Master Fu to give two people a Miraculous just because they helped an old man once. For Marinette, her own needs always come first, even if the world is in danger or she hurts others.
Getting a real Cyrus the Great energy from these reviews.
Kudos for having a great taste.
Marinette character deserved a better creator in a better series, Ladybug had a lot of potential and it was all burnt to the ground
shivers ran up my spine when you mentioned the scene with "wax statue adrien" because oh it so uncomfortable to watch
Literally so gross like what the fuck..
Yall if I was Adrien I’d would move to another planet 💀
Fr, I'm rich! I'm dipping
knowing marinette, she would have followed you into space🌹
As an adult woman who had several girls-only sleepover parties in middle and high school, but hasn’t watch MLB since s2 lol, the whole “the guys-only party was sexist” criticism mentioned around 22:15 or so just strikes me as so stupid. Sure, “no girls allowed” clubs and groups and stuff, THAT could definitely be argued is sexism because you’re excluding one gender from ALL events with a particular group, and even then I feel like context and nuance matters. But having one single event with just your dude friends, I feel like that’s completely normal??
Heck, for one of my good friends - the day before her birthday, we both took off work and had a girls day - spa, dinner, then just hung out for a few hours. When her husband got home from work, he left us to our liquor and TV and was like “y’all enjoy your girls night.” And we would have included him if he WANTED to get his brows waxed and nails done lol but that very much didn’t interest him, so the entire evening (& night bc I wasn’t driving after moonshine lolllll) was just us girls.
I don’t hate Marinette but I hate what the writers make her do: the yearly schedule obsession, breaking into Adrien’s room, stalking (in both Paris and Shanghai) etc😅 that’s why I’m so grateful for analysis videos ❤
It’s also why Felix is in the right in that one moment he finds the messages and deletes Marinette’s message😅
And I’m grateful for your support.
.......I forgot about that video until MG mentioned it, Jeez Mari....way to be ignorant....even CHOLE knew that Adrien needed a shoulder to cry on
@@MGory828you’re welcome 😊 to be honest the way the show has kinda incoherent lore makes it hard for me to fix it in a rewrite 😅 do you have any tips for fixing the way the miraculous work (especially the rooster)?
@@gracekim1998 Don’t make then so powerful, they can end the show
@@MGory828good point 😅
Is it appropriate to put Marinette on the list of Hated Characters We’re Supposed to Like?
Yes!