Hyarmendacil I was the Sun King of Gondor. Like Louis the 14th. Although his success was largely built off of his predecessors, he helped to build a realm on par with old Numenor. Complete gigachad.
While I agree in principle, I disagree with the extent; Númenor grew powerful under the tutelage and light of the Valar. The only nations more powerful than Númenor would be those that were themselves under the tutelage of the Valar (e.g. Tirion), or those that are themselves ruled by gods (Valinor itself, Utumno, Angband).
I've always thought he was a bit more like the Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius in the sense that he was the last of a line of exceptionally good monarchs who was followed by a son who was, shall we say, not exactly a chip off the old block - Commodus in the case of Marcus, and Atanatar II in the case of Hyarmendacil.
@@kylephillips6027 But that was Eru though? Manwe asked for Eru to intervene or something like that. If the Valar wanted to, I'm sure they could've handled Numenor by themselves quite easily.
I'm just gonna say it now. I feel bad for that guy who only ruled Gondor as King for 2 years, and those two years just so happened to be during the Great Plague, 2 of the worst years in the entirety of Gondor's history. King Telemnar and all of his descendants died because of the disease. RIP.
"“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness; that is life.” Jean Luc Picard" I think Picard really nails it in one of his best quotes. You can do everything in your power to raise a child to be the best they can be, there's no guarantee that it won't completely backfire and they will end up becoming entire different or even a polar opposite of how they where raised. On the flipside, there's tons of examples of people having really crappy parents or even people having to raise themselves, going on to succeed despite poor/absent parents. For the most part, parents try their best but make errors due to inheriting flaws and defects from their parents (generational trauma is a big culprit behind stuff like this)..
Romendacil II is my favorite he worked for so long as regent until finally becoming king, keeping the realm together in the presence of kings that had little care for governing Gondor.
In fairness, Narmacil was self-aware and competent enough to appoint a man more suited for the position. Atanatar was the truely stagnant one. Also, Calmacil was pretty old, we cannot expect a pensioner to take an active role in the realm's governance (Vardamir, son of Elros abdicated for this exact reason). Just as Tywin Lannister said, a good king knows what he knows, and knows what he doesn't, and seeks the council of others regarding the latter. Romendacil II reminds me of the Hunyadi's. John Hunyadi was a legendary general, and later on Regent.
THANK YOU for disqualifying those 4 and making this an interesting video, not fan gushing. Anyway, something similar for the Stewards would be interesting. Or among the Valar. Or the Maiar (which would probably be Gandalf vs Melian, but you also have Eonwe and Arien and Uinen).
Also, I think it'd be cool if you explored more alternative histories of middle earth. Ideas such as, what if Borondir had failed to make his ride, what if the Valar never sent the Ishtari/Wizards to middle earth, what if Earendil failed to make his voyage, what if the Elves won the Battle of Innumerable Tears, etc. You could also explore scenarios, such as, How Sauron could have won, How Saruman could have won, and How Arnor could have survived, etc. Lots of options to explore Middle Earth.
could you make a video on what are in your opinion the biggest flaws in Tolkien's worldbuilding? And could Sauron take his power back which he invested in the one ring?
I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure Sauron could not take his power back from the ring itself. Once his power is spent/imbued, it’s gone. Much like with Morgoth disseminating his power all across Middle Earth and into various beings to corrupt them. Even when those corruptions were felled, the power never returned to Morgoth. But good topic for a video if it was indeed possible in some way and what the implications would be if Sauron was able to pursue that route.
@@Lawrence_Talbot I think you're right. Sauron knew the power of the Three would make his hopes of conquest hopeless, so he put much of his power into the Ring to control them (and the Seven and the Nine). In some ways, it was a desperate move. But he had great faith in the power of the machine, as Tolkien might describe it, to give him power over the world, so he was willing to make the move to put so much of himself forever into the Ring.
@@Bombur888 what are you talking about? Orcs, Trolls, Dragons, Balrogs were “made” because of Morgoth’s corruption. Orcs were felled. Trolls were felled. Dragons were felled. Balrogs are felled.
Eldacar and castamir are tied in my opinion it said castamir focused on Gondor’s ports. However like moving the capital to pelargir those aren’t crime’s or being evil it’s just favoritism . And angry traditionalists. Ironic the man who came to power because of tradition would also fall because of it. still considering eldacar lost the first part of the war and only won because of castamir’s failure to learn the lessons from history. Id say it’s likely gondor suffered the reverse upon eldacar’s return pelargir and belfalas probably sunk into obscurity or had their roles greatly reduced we don’t know much about castamir or eldacar’s personality’s we don’t even know what castamir’s prime reasons for taking the throne were. Was he a true believer of the purity of blood or was he just using it to his advantage. The worst king of Gondor was eärnur for destroying the line of kings by committing suicide by witch king
@@abhorrentsoul The worst thing about Eldacar's personality was stubbornness, probably inherited from his father Valacar. This led him to sometimes cling to decisions long after they were producing the reverse of what he wanted. He also somewhat foolishly dithered around and wasted several opportunities in the early part of the Kin-Strife to nip Castamir's rebellion in the bud. For his part, Castamir's motivations for revolting against his cousin appear to have been sincere belief in his own superior claim to the throne, mixed with, shall we say, a certain amount of simple xenophobia; He was a true Gondorian prince of undiluted Gondorian lineage, whereas his cousin Eldacar was the half-blood brat of a foreign upstart who thought he was going to make off with somebody else's rightful inheritance. It's sad that people think that way, but they do, especially at the elite level of money and politics. Comparing their records as kings however, is almost night and day. Eldacar could be pigheaded and indecisive at times, but Castamir was downright cruel, greedy, and tyrannical. He torched and practically destroyed the beautiful capitol of Osgiliath to the extent that it never really recovered; He executed Ornendil, his cousin's son and heir, out spite, taxed Gondor's people mercilessly to support his ship-building programs, maliciously burned the elven port city of Edhellond when they wouldn't pay up, and imprisoned, tortured, and frequently executed any that he suspected of being loyal to Eldacar's family. He was terrible, altogether. And after ten years, when Eldacar finally marched back into Gondor, reclaimed his throne and killed his cousin, the people were well rid of him (except of course for the corsairs in Umbar, who were likewise no gems of decency themselves).
@@elagabalusrex390 Eldacar was in osgiliath in wars brutal sieges were not uncommon. And after a war taxes were needed to rebuild the kingdom. Any rebellions could provide Eldacar an opportunity to return. In short you are with me or you are against me. If Castamir was a true believer in his cause then the killing of Ornendil might have been an act of zealotry. His killing of any potential traitors was understandable having usurped the throne he had many enemies. And Eldacar was not dead he was hiding in rhovanion planing to return. The lands of anorien and calenardhon were not loyal and would join Eldacar or His Heirs if they would return. Moving the capital to pelargir could be seen as an act of caution as well as favoritism. Like any usurper as long as any enemy claimants were alive neither castamir or his heirs would be safe. in a way The Heirs of Eldacar could have become a twisted mirror of the corsairs of umbar raiding and troubling gondor up to the point of the war of the ring unless the easterlings destroy rhovanion like they would do later on. Sorry for moving away from the discussion but i need to think more about this before i answer any further
@@abhorrentsoul Well it is true that the winners write the history books. If Castamir had succeeded in holding onto the throne, he would probably be remembered differently.
Romandecil is an excellent choice. Less an expansionist than someone consolidating the kingdom's position through alliances and building in buffering zones between Gondor and its enemies.
Oh I agree with you’re pick of Romendacil 2, as he arrested the beginning of gondor’s decline and put it in a sounder and stronger position in terms of military might and powerful Allies to defend its vast territories. A position that would have continued for several centuries if not for the disastrous kin strife civil war. Though all the ship builder kings deserve honourable mentions for expanding Gondor to its greatest territorial expanse as well as seal their enemies mortal blues to leave them destroyed or severely crippled from e many generations and not a threat.
I am somewhat thorn between Hyarmendacil I and Romendacil II, one brought Gondor at the very height of its power while the other ruled Gondor at the height of its power.
Difficult to say. Hyarmendacil I was undoubtedly the most impressive conqueror of them, but his immense territory annexations and constant wars and travels left the kingdom overstrained militarily and economically; Equally perniciously, he neglected to properly instruct his son in the royal ways, which caused a lot of trouble in later years. Romendacil II was probably the most versatile and remarkable in the sense of the sheer variety of his abilities - military captain, administrator, builder, scholar - and equally great in all of them. Tarondor also is a good candidate; The the longest reigning Gondorian monarch at 162 years of reign, he inherited a kingdom that had been devastated by a Great Plague and a southron invasion, and managed to largely heal its worst effects, leaving behind a strong realm to his son and heir.
Did it though? We have really no indication of Gondor being overstretched in that period. And we don't know about how he raised his son; it might have been his fault, or it might not.
I thought Earnil II would have been the 3rd King. He defeated the Wainriders and the Haradrim in what? One, two weeks! True, he was not king yet, but he still did it! He was loyal to Arthedain and sent aid to Arthedain and then the fall of Angmar! True, he couldn't save Minas Ithil, but it's covered in Why Did Minas Ithil fall? And The Watch on Mordor. If Earnil was a disappointment it was for not making sure Earnur had a son as they were the last Heirs of Anarion! I guess that could remove him from the third spot on the list. And yes, please do one on the Kings of Arnor/Arthedain and Chieftains of the Dunedain! Maybe even if just who, when, a few small things on them or what was h happening in Middle-Earth if Tolkien does not give us anything.
True, but where's the fun in that? Darth wisely removes the obvious choices of Aragorn and the founders from consideration to make it more interesting.
I think Aragorn and Elendil could/should have technically eligible, but I absolutely respect the decision to omit them because that would have made the question less interesting.
Meneldil. If it wasn't for his shrewdness in getting out from under the yoke of Isildur and his descendants, there wouldn't have been a separate kingdom of Gondor in the first place, rendering this whole video moot. (Yeah, I don't really believe this makes him the "best king", and might make him one of the worst.)
I would put Meneldil in the top five, but not quite at number one. He reigned longer than any but one of the kings of Gondor, and had to pick up the pieces from the War of the Last Alliance - no easy task. It certainly couldn't have been easy following the double act of Isildur and Anarion. If they were the Julius Caesar and Pompey of Gondor, then Meneldil was definitely Augustus.
Yeah, it was pretty dumb of them not maintaining the High-Kingship. Elendil and Isildur basically ruled over Numenor Minor (or Numenor Diminished). If Meneldil had any wits about him, following the Gladden Fields he would've appointed himself acting Regent until Isildur's only surviving son came of age. Then Gondor would remain a vassal kingdom and gradually expanding westward, so as to better link up with Arnor territorially. Huge miss for the Dunedain.
@@bundayeti There were two big problems with that though: first, Valandil of Arnor may well have been only a child when he became king, but nevertheless he was of the senior line of the Dunedain royal house(Isildur), whereas Meneldil was of the junior line of Anarion. So it would have been a hard sell to get the people of Arnor to agree to something like that. National pride is a thing, unfortunately. Second, and more importantly, the geographical distance between the two kingdoms was simply too great for either to exert any real control over the other; Seriously, look at a map of Middle-Earth - they're a long ways apart in an age of horse-drawn wagons. Even in Elendil's lifetime, he probably never exercised any real day to day control in Gondor - his High Kingship was largely a formality to honor the common legacy of Numenor and to ensure a military alliance between the two domains in case Sauron ever returned (a good gamble, as it turned out). And his sons probably paid him an annual tribute as a token gesture of loyalty. Only Elendil's exceptional standing among the Edain allowed him to claim such a title with any credibility, and once both he and his sons were dead, I think it's doubtful that anyone in either of the kingdoms would have acknowledged anyone as being a worthy replacement. The High Kingship was only meant for Elendil, and perhaps for Isildur, and when the latter was killed at the Gladden Fields, he took the took the title to the grave with him.
@@elagabalusrex390 There is a lot of sense in what you said. However...Elessar exhumed the title and, as far as we can tell, exerted some measure of actual control over the Reunited Kingdom, and expected to pass this on to his descendants. In some ways this would have been easier than at the beginning of the Third Age, but in many other ways much, much more difficult. I think this is pretty good evidence that Tolkien wouldn't have seen the distances involved as the critical challenge, but rather other factors. Meneldil's ambition and Valandil's youth being the main items implied in his writings. It's not silly to think that logistics as well would have played a part in the division of the two kingdoms after Isildur's death. But we are essentially speaking of the distance between Britain and Italy. If the Romans could manage it (and a lot more) I think the Dunedain, not far removed from the height of their power, were more than capable of similar accomplishments. But it was not to be, not until another 3000 years had passed.
@@tiltskillet7085 Very true. Actually, Aragorn was far worse off, as most of the Palantiri were either lost or rendered unusable, with only 2 or 3 left. Maybe.
I was definitely going with Hyarmendacil I until you pointed out the very long lasting effects of Rómendacil II's starting the alliance with the Northmen. So, I am persuaded by your argument but it's practically a tie between the two. As far video ideas, while Best Kings of Arnor would be interesting, how about Best Stewards of Gondor?
Excellent choices, I agree that they're the best. Earnur was of course a terrible king for THAT ONE DECISION, but he was still a great warrior and leader who did a great job of wiping out the armies of Angmar, if a bit too late. He would've done great as a general instead of taking up the throne, I think.
Earnil II is the best king of Gondor because he gave almost a century of political stability, kept Gondor's enemies at bay and saved the day literally after the death of Ondoher and his heirs. Without Earnil II Gondor would have been defeated- with Earnil II he gave that declining kingdom a lot more time to delay the inevitable defeat and this ensured that it still existed in the time of Bilbo and Frodo and Aragorn.
if you've ever played Total War then you know it's much much more of an achievement to get out from a desperate starting position with little resources, alliances etc. than to start as the most powerful, richest power on the map and then conquer more from there.
Could numenor at its height conquer first age elves? Could gondor at its height conquer middle earth including elves and dwarves. I always thought that was a good question why didn’t men conquer the other peoples. I think you could get a lot of content out of versus videos and it also covers the stuff you enjoy like population and geography of middle earth
The elves certainly had naval capability. They were numerous then. Millions. The noldor were at their peak with the light of the undying lands Still fresh. Had great leaders like glorfindel, ecthelion, etc and kings like fingon, finrod, thingol etc. I'd love to see a video on that. As for the dwarves I think they'd Just hold up in their mountain strongholds.
Gondor called the land between the Misty Mountains and the White Mountains Calenardhon. As Gondor waned, most of the people living there moved to the land between the White Mountains and the Mountains of Shadow or into the lands of the Seven Rivers. Only outposts at Angrenost (Isengard) and Aglarost (Helm's Deep) and fortresses along the Isen remained. For Gondor's sake, it was ready for the Rider's to resettle there.
@@jrpipik he asked what the 'GAP OF Rohan' was called, ie. the narrow bit between the Mountains, South of Isengard, before Rohan was called Rohan, was it called the gap of Calenardon?
@@jrpipik maybe. I wasn't really expecting an answer, just letting you know you didn't seem to have quite understood his question, going by your answer.
Hyarmendacil I was the Sun King of Gondor. Like Louis the 14th. Although his success was largely built off of his predecessors, he helped to build a realm on par with old Numenor. Complete gigachad.
On par is a bit much. The Valar had to throw mountains down to stop the army of Númenor...
While I agree in principle, I disagree with the extent; Númenor grew powerful under the tutelage and light of the Valar. The only nations more powerful than Númenor would be those that were themselves under the tutelage of the Valar (e.g. Tirion), or those that are themselves ruled by gods (Valinor itself, Utumno, Angband).
I've always thought he was a bit more like the Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius in the sense that he was the last of a line of exceptionally good monarchs who was followed by a son who was, shall we say, not exactly a chip off the old block - Commodus in the case of Marcus, and Atanatar II in the case of Hyarmendacil.
@@kylephillips6027 But that was Eru though? Manwe asked for Eru to intervene or something like that.
If the Valar wanted to, I'm sure they could've handled Numenor by themselves quite easily.
I'm just gonna say it now. I feel bad for that guy who only ruled Gondor as King for 2 years, and those two years just so happened to be during the Great Plague, 2 of the worst years in the entirety of Gondor's history. King Telemnar and all of his descendants died because of the disease. RIP.
Yeah, he never had a chance to do much.
"“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness; that is life.” Jean Luc Picard"
I think Picard really nails it in one of his best quotes. You can do everything in your power to raise a child to be the best they can be, there's no guarantee that it won't completely backfire and they will end up becoming entire different or even a polar opposite of how they where raised. On the flipside, there's tons of examples of people having really crappy parents or even people having to raise themselves, going on to succeed despite poor/absent parents. For the most part, parents try their best but make errors due to inheriting flaws and defects from their parents (generational trauma is a big culprit behind stuff like this)..
so true !
Romendacil II is my favorite he worked for so long as regent until finally becoming king, keeping the realm together in the presence of kings that had little care for governing Gondor.
In fairness, Narmacil was self-aware and competent enough to appoint a man more suited for the position. Atanatar was the truely stagnant one. Also, Calmacil was pretty old, we cannot expect a pensioner to take an active role in the realm's governance (Vardamir, son of Elros abdicated for this exact reason). Just as Tywin Lannister said, a good king knows what he knows, and knows what he doesn't, and seeks the council of others regarding the latter.
Romendacil II reminds me of the Hunyadi's. John Hunyadi was a legendary general, and later on Regent.
THANK YOU for disqualifying those 4 and making this an interesting video, not fan gushing. Anyway, something similar for the Stewards would be interesting. Or among the Valar. Or the Maiar (which would probably be Gandalf vs Melian, but you also have Eonwe and Arien and Uinen).
Also, I think it'd be cool if you explored more alternative histories of middle earth. Ideas such as, what if Borondir had failed to make his ride, what if the Valar never sent the Ishtari/Wizards to middle earth, what if Earendil failed to make his voyage, what if the Elves won the Battle of Innumerable Tears, etc. You could also explore scenarios, such as, How Sauron could have won, How Saruman could have won, and How Arnor could have survived, etc. Lots of options to explore Middle Earth.
could you make a video on what are in your opinion the biggest flaws in Tolkien's worldbuilding? And could Sauron take his power back which he invested in the one ring?
I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure Sauron could not take his power back from the ring itself. Once his power is spent/imbued, it’s gone. Much like with Morgoth disseminating his power all across Middle Earth and into various beings to corrupt them. Even when those corruptions were felled, the power never returned to Morgoth.
But good topic for a video if it was indeed possible in some way and what the implications would be if Sauron was able to pursue that route.
@@Lawrence_Talbot I think you're right. Sauron knew the power of the Three would make his hopes of conquest hopeless, so he put much of his power into the Ring to control them (and the Seven and the Nine). In some ways, it was a desperate move. But he had great faith in the power of the machine, as Tolkien might describe it, to give him power over the world, so he was willing to make the move to put so much of himself forever into the Ring.
The biggest flaws in Tolkien''s legendarium is a good idea.
@@Lawrence_Talbot I agree with you on the topic of taking back their power, but Morgoth's corruptions were never felled. Not until Dagor Bragollach.
@@Bombur888 what are you talking about? Orcs, Trolls, Dragons, Balrogs were “made” because of Morgoth’s corruption. Orcs were felled. Trolls were felled. Dragons were felled. Balrogs are felled.
Hell yeah, guessed it was gonna be Romendacil II
Could do the Same for arnor and Rohan.
What if numenor never at first interfered with the war of the elves Vs Sharon?
Sharon, former servant of Karen, great enemy to all Men
there's gotta be gondor's worst kings next, I have a feeling I may know who would be the worst, but just curious to see anyways~
Castamir the Usurper, beyond in any doubt in my mind. He was absolutely terrible.
Eldacar and castamir are tied in my opinion it said castamir focused on Gondor’s ports. However like moving the capital to pelargir those aren’t crime’s or being evil it’s just favoritism . And angry traditionalists. Ironic the man who came to power because of tradition would also fall because of it. still considering eldacar lost the first part of the war and only won because of castamir’s failure to learn the lessons from history. Id say it’s likely gondor suffered the reverse upon eldacar’s return pelargir and belfalas probably sunk into obscurity or had their roles greatly reduced we don’t know much about castamir or eldacar’s personality’s we don’t even know what castamir’s prime reasons for taking the throne were. Was he a true believer of the purity of blood or was he just using it to his advantage. The worst king of Gondor was eärnur for destroying the line of kings by committing suicide by witch king
@@abhorrentsoul The worst thing about Eldacar's personality was stubbornness, probably inherited from his father Valacar. This led him to sometimes cling to decisions long after they were producing the reverse of what he wanted. He also somewhat foolishly dithered around and wasted several opportunities in the early part of the Kin-Strife to nip Castamir's rebellion in the bud. For his part, Castamir's motivations for revolting against his cousin appear to have been sincere belief in his own superior claim to the throne, mixed with, shall we say, a certain amount of simple xenophobia; He was a true Gondorian prince of undiluted Gondorian lineage, whereas his cousin Eldacar was the half-blood brat of a foreign upstart who thought he was going to make off with somebody else's rightful inheritance. It's sad that people think that way, but they do, especially at the elite level of money and politics. Comparing their records as kings however, is almost night and day. Eldacar could be pigheaded and indecisive at times, but Castamir was downright cruel, greedy, and tyrannical. He torched and practically destroyed the beautiful capitol of Osgiliath to the extent that it never really recovered; He executed Ornendil, his cousin's son and heir, out spite, taxed Gondor's people mercilessly to support his ship-building programs, maliciously burned the elven port city of Edhellond when they wouldn't pay up, and imprisoned, tortured, and frequently executed any that he suspected of being loyal to Eldacar's family. He was terrible, altogether. And after ten years, when Eldacar finally marched back into Gondor, reclaimed his throne and killed his cousin, the people were well rid of him (except of course for the corsairs in Umbar, who were likewise no gems of decency themselves).
@@elagabalusrex390 Eldacar was in osgiliath in wars brutal sieges were not uncommon. And after a war taxes were needed to rebuild the kingdom. Any rebellions could provide Eldacar an opportunity to return. In short you are with me or you are against me. If Castamir was a true believer in his cause then the killing of Ornendil might have been an act of zealotry. His killing of any potential traitors was understandable having usurped the throne he had many enemies. And Eldacar was not dead he was hiding in rhovanion planing to return. The lands of anorien and calenardhon were not loyal and would join Eldacar or His Heirs if they would return. Moving the capital to pelargir could be seen as an act of caution as well as favoritism. Like any usurper as long as any enemy claimants were alive neither castamir or his heirs would be safe. in a way The Heirs of Eldacar could have become a twisted mirror of the corsairs of umbar raiding and troubling gondor up to the point of the war of the ring unless the easterlings destroy rhovanion like they would do later on. Sorry for moving away from the discussion but i need to think more about this before i answer any further
@@abhorrentsoul Well it is true that the winners write the history books. If Castamir had succeeded in holding onto the throne, he would probably be remembered differently.
me, in Third Age Total War, after I render Harad a vassal and Mordor an even more ashen waste
Hahaha I know right 😊👍
Though the script in DAC does make denathor a bit bi polar 😅
Better to work to make alliances and trade relationships with both East and South before Sauron's reappearance.
I've spent a good couple hours going through these kings, and they sure are an exciting bunch.
Great vid as always!
Here's a topic: would Gondor under Hyarmendacil have been able to defeat Sauron at the end of the Third Age.
Romandecil is an excellent choice. Less an expansionist than someone consolidating the kingdom's position through alliances and building in buffering zones between Gondor and its enemies.
Oh I agree with you’re pick of Romendacil 2, as he arrested the beginning of gondor’s decline and put it in a sounder and stronger position in terms of military might and powerful Allies to defend its vast territories. A position that would have continued for several centuries if not for the disastrous kin strife civil war.
Though all the ship builder kings deserve honourable mentions for expanding Gondor to its greatest territorial expanse as well as seal their enemies mortal blues to leave them destroyed or severely crippled from e many generations and not a threat.
Brilliant video mate, you always make such high quality content
I am somewhat thorn between Hyarmendacil I and Romendacil II, one brought Gondor at the very height of its power while the other ruled Gondor at the height of its power.
Difficult to say. Hyarmendacil I was undoubtedly the most impressive conqueror of them, but his immense territory annexations and constant wars and travels left the kingdom overstrained militarily and economically; Equally perniciously, he neglected to properly instruct his son in the royal ways, which caused a lot of trouble in later years. Romendacil II was probably the most versatile and remarkable in the sense of the sheer variety of his abilities - military captain, administrator, builder, scholar - and equally great in all of them. Tarondor also is a good candidate; The the longest reigning Gondorian monarch at 162 years of reign, he inherited a kingdom that had been devastated by a Great Plague and a southron invasion, and managed to largely heal its worst effects, leaving behind a strong realm to his son and heir.
Did it though? We have really no indication of Gondor being overstretched in that period. And we don't know about how he raised his son; it might have been his fault, or it might not.
@@Bombur888 Ah, you weary me with your incessant contradictions. Have some pipeweed, Bombur.
I thought Earnil II would have been the 3rd King. He defeated the Wainriders and the Haradrim in what? One, two weeks! True, he was not king yet, but he still did it! He was loyal to Arthedain and sent aid to Arthedain and then the fall of Angmar!
True, he couldn't save Minas Ithil, but it's covered in Why Did Minas Ithil fall? And The Watch on Mordor.
If Earnil was a disappointment it was for not making sure Earnur had a son as they were the last Heirs of Anarion!
I guess that could remove him from the third spot on the list.
And yes, please do one on the Kings of Arnor/Arthedain and Chieftains of the Dunedain!
Maybe even if just who, when, a few small things on them or what was h happening in Middle-Earth if Tolkien does not give us anything.
This really could be a two second video: "Aragorn, son of Arathorn."
He was the king of the Reunited kingdoms not Gondor proper.
@@frenchsterr4708 A kingdom that includes Gondor proper. 😂😂😂
@@markstott6689 DG specifically said he wasn't considering Aragorn because he was king of the Reunited kingdoms, not just Gondor.
True, but where's the fun in that? Darth wisely removes the obvious choices of Aragorn and the founders from consideration to make it more interesting.
@@istari0 It was said tongue in cheek tbh. 😏
I think Aragorn and Elendil could/should have technically eligible, but I absolutely respect the decision to omit them because that would have made the question less interesting.
Meneldil. If it wasn't for his shrewdness in getting out from under the yoke of Isildur and his descendants, there wouldn't have been a separate kingdom of Gondor in the first place, rendering this whole video moot. (Yeah, I don't really believe this makes him the "best king", and might make him one of the worst.)
I would put Meneldil in the top five, but not quite at number one. He reigned longer than any but one of the kings of Gondor, and had to pick up the pieces from the War of the Last Alliance - no easy task. It certainly couldn't have been easy following the double act of Isildur and Anarion. If they were the Julius Caesar and Pompey of Gondor, then Meneldil was definitely Augustus.
Yeah, it was pretty dumb of them not maintaining the High-Kingship. Elendil and Isildur basically ruled over Numenor Minor (or Numenor Diminished). If Meneldil had any wits about him, following the Gladden Fields he would've appointed himself acting Regent until Isildur's only surviving son came of age. Then Gondor would remain a vassal kingdom and gradually expanding westward, so as to better link up with Arnor territorially. Huge miss for the Dunedain.
@@bundayeti There were two big problems with that though: first, Valandil of Arnor may well have been only a child when he became king, but nevertheless he was of the senior line of the Dunedain royal house(Isildur), whereas Meneldil was of the junior line of Anarion. So it would have been a hard sell to get the people of Arnor to agree to something like that. National pride is a thing, unfortunately. Second, and more importantly, the geographical distance between the two kingdoms was simply too great for either to exert any real control over the other; Seriously, look at a map of Middle-Earth - they're a long ways apart in an age of horse-drawn wagons. Even in Elendil's lifetime, he probably never exercised any real day to day control in Gondor - his High Kingship was largely a formality to honor the common legacy of Numenor and to ensure a military alliance between the two domains in case Sauron ever returned (a good gamble, as it turned out). And his sons probably paid him an annual tribute as a token gesture of loyalty. Only Elendil's exceptional standing among the Edain allowed him to claim such a title with any credibility, and once both he and his sons were dead, I think it's doubtful that anyone in either of the kingdoms would have acknowledged anyone as being a worthy replacement. The High Kingship was only meant for Elendil, and perhaps for Isildur, and when the latter was killed at the Gladden Fields, he took the took the title to the grave with him.
@@elagabalusrex390 There is a lot of sense in what you said. However...Elessar exhumed the title and, as far as we can tell, exerted some measure of actual control over the Reunited Kingdom, and expected to pass this on to his descendants. In some ways this would have been easier than at the beginning of the Third Age, but in many other ways much, much more difficult. I think this is pretty good evidence that Tolkien wouldn't have seen the distances involved as the critical challenge, but rather other factors. Meneldil's ambition and Valandil's youth being the main items implied in his writings.
It's not silly to think that logistics as well would have played a part in the division of the two kingdoms after Isildur's death. But we are essentially speaking of the distance between Britain and Italy. If the Romans could manage it (and a lot more) I think the Dunedain, not far removed from the height of their power, were more than capable of similar accomplishments.
But it was not to be, not until another 3000 years had passed.
@@tiltskillet7085 Very true. Actually, Aragorn was far worse off, as most of the Palantiri were either lost or rendered unusable, with only 2 or 3 left. Maybe.
I was definitely going with Hyarmendacil I until you pointed out the very long lasting effects of Rómendacil II's starting the alliance with the Northmen. So, I am persuaded by your argument but it's practically a tie between the two.
As far video ideas, while Best Kings of Arnor would be interesting, how about Best Stewards of Gondor?
Best Stewards is a good idea. I feel like I probably haven't talked about them as much as I could.
Dude just canceled out all my picks in the first minute 😂 now I _have_ to finish the video to know who he picks.
Awesome as usual
Excellent choices, I agree that they're the best.
Earnur was of course a terrible king for THAT ONE DECISION, but he was still a great warrior and leader who did a great job of wiping out the armies of Angmar, if a bit too late.
He would've done great as a general instead of taking up the throne, I think.
Earnil II is the best king of Gondor because he gave almost a century of political stability, kept Gondor's enemies at bay and saved the day literally after the death of Ondoher and his heirs. Without Earnil II Gondor would have been defeated- with Earnil II he gave that declining kingdom a lot more time to delay the inevitable defeat and this ensured that it still existed in the time of Bilbo and Frodo and Aragorn.
Could you do a video like this for the kings of Rohan?
Who's the better king? The guy with an army and society at the top of its game who does awesome or the guy who barely survives with a weak one.
if you've ever played Total War then you know it's much much more of an achievement to get out from a desperate starting position with little resources, alliances etc. than to start as the most powerful, richest power on the map and then conquer more from there.
9:08 nb
Could numenor at its height conquer first age elves?
Could gondor at its height conquer middle earth including elves and dwarves. I always thought that was a good question why didn’t men conquer the other peoples. I think you could get a lot of content out of versus videos and it also covers the stuff you enjoy like population and geography of middle earth
The elves certainly had naval capability.
They were numerous then. Millions.
The noldor were at their peak with the light of the undying lands Still fresh.
Had great leaders like glorfindel, ecthelion, etc and kings like fingon, finrod, thingol etc.
I'd love to see a video on that.
As for the dwarves I think they'd Just hold up in their mountain strongholds.
What was the gap of Rohan called before Rohan?
Gondor called the land between the Misty Mountains and the White Mountains Calenardhon. As Gondor waned, most of the people living there moved to the land between the White Mountains and the Mountains of Shadow or into the lands of the Seven Rivers. Only outposts at Angrenost (Isengard) and Aglarost (Helm's Deep) and fortresses along the Isen remained. For Gondor's sake, it was ready for the Rider's to resettle there.
@@jrpipik he asked what the 'GAP OF Rohan' was called, ie. the narrow bit between the Mountains, South of Isengard, before Rohan was called Rohan, was it called the gap of Calenardon?
@@DraconimLt I don't know that Tolkien ever mentions it. Perhaps someone else can find a source.
@@jrpipik maybe. I wasn't really expecting an answer, just letting you know you didn't seem to have quite understood his question, going by your answer.
Who would be the worst?
Algormancy!
Song name pls! Is it from LOTRO?
Yes, it's "Lines of Earendil" from LOTRO.
LORD! PALMERSTON!
Pitt the Elder!
Darth
What if Gondor fell instead of arnor, say the losses for them wasn't as extreme at the war of the last alliance.
Oh ya? Disqualify my every choice will ya? Fine than. Castamire than. 💯
Same video but with Elven High-Kings and lesser kings
Romendacil
Algorithm
first! awesome 🙂
I choose eldarion. The son of Aragorn. The guy hase no enemies in the south east or north.