I was 7 when my older brother came home from the store w a brand new NES in the box and copies of RC Pro Am and LoZ. I asked what they were and the wise ass said “one’s a racing game and the other teaches you how to make pies”. I still remember the disappointment I felt at this lol. Little did I know it ended up being a game that helped shaped my childhood and whose legacy still piques interest of gamers of any age. Great retrospective.
I had a similar experience - I was hoping my brother was going to buy Mario 2 and he brought this home. I was so disappointed. Fast forward and this game became special to everyone in my family. We loved discovering and sharing secrets. As an aside - a similar thing happened with the snes. My brother purchased secret of mana instead of Zelda LttP: disappointment followed by years of love for secret of mana (obviously still love LttP too!)
This was a great overview of the history and an intriguing discussion of the (somewhat nebulous) definition of genres such as "open world games" I'm personally fascinating by the fact that, even though they didn't go through with it in the end, the idea around Link being the...well, link, between two times and/or worlds seems to a central concept for the series even at the very beginning. Keep up the good work ^_^
Thia was my intro to gaming. We spent days trying to beat it. Now im listening to this while playing BOTW knowing theres anotger whole game after this one. IM IN GAMING HEAVEN!!😊
Zelda was not described as a role playing game at the time of release, nor in the years after. That was crystal clear to me as a kid in the 80s- I was reading virtually everything that was written about Zelda at the time, never any mention of Zelda as an RPG. We did not have a term for what kind of game it was. Personally, I referred to it as an adventure game during those early years, and I do recall often referring to it as an action-adventure. There still is no term for what kind of game it is. There is no game anything like it, not even any of the Zelda sequels are like Zelda 1 almost whatsoever, with Zelda 3 coming closest to being similar. This is why Zelda 1 is genre defying.
@@SamusGunship Perhaps not everywhere but it certainly was considered an RPG, and from my own experience I would say I recall seeing Zelda games primarily classified as RPGs in to the early '00s. Here's a couple examples I found, this isn't an exhaustive list, but it's just to give an idea of what I was saying. 1. Check out the review on pg. 144 which refers to Zelda as a role playing game. web.archive.org/web/20210610164925/retrocdn.net/images/d/d9/ACE_UK_26.pdf#page=144 2. Famitsu is printed in Japanese but the letters RPG are still plain to read in its review of LOZ. cdn-ak.f.st-hatena.com/images/fotolife/M/MULTi88/20200420/20200420023445.jpg 3. And you can see in this archive link from 2001 that Nintendo had Zelda games categorized as RPGs in their website. web.archive.org/web/20010517052024/www.nintendo.com/games/specific_category.jsp?genreId=8
Yes, many of today's labels did not exist back then. This was an "adventure" game back then. Super Mario Bros was a side-scrolling action game, as "platformer" was not a thing yet.
Hydlide and Ys are Action RPGs and the closest parallels to Zelda. It's more likely the RPG moniker was used in Japan, because in Japan back then, everything that was inspired by RPGs were called RPGs.
@@Mer.Saloon yeah well i can't speak for how it was in Japan at the time, but I can for how it was in the US, because I was steeped in these games, and in the late 80s I was literally obsessed with Zelda 1. We knew what an RPG was, and Zelda 1 was most definitely not an RPG. I do not see almost anything similar about Hydlide and Ys with Zelda, except for the vantage point. Sorry
You really should try the second quest, it’s pretty different and fun! Loved this version of your work, can’t wait to see the updates to the other videos ❤
Two things that prove to me that The Legend of Zelda is open-world: 1. Of the 128 overworld screens, only two require an item of any kind to reach. While extremely difficult, Link can get to Spectacle Rock before getting the sword. 2. Levels 1, 2, 3, and 8 can be found, entered, and completed in any order. The only locks for half of the levels are items found in the overworld and the difficulty curve.
Nothing's really made me feel like this game since. The world seemed so huge. The challenges and mysteries were difficult but not to the point of angering you.
Gotta love the commitment those dungeon dudes have. They are presumably imprisoned there, yet they're still like, "they hate a certain sound." "Tell me man, the flute? Help me help you!"
This is so great, thanks for your hard work and research! It's never been confirmed but Kondo's main theme and dungeon theme sound similar to a long song by Deep Purple called "April", not sure if Kondo took subconscious inspiration from that tune. It's an amazing track from IIRC Deep Purple's third album.
7:39- "We were inspired by Peter Pan, not completely of course, otherwise it wouldn't have been great because we would've been sued by that other company that is just litigious as us" -my interpretation of Miyamoto.
Sorry but that's not how I understood it. Obviously he didn't want Link to be Peter Pan, Link is supposed to be the legendary hero the player identifies to. Inspiration is limited to the tunic and the pointy ears, but Link's personality has nothing to do with the one of Peter Pan.
I remember my mother waking me up the first day of summer vacation when I was 10. I was angry because I wanted to sleep in but she had woken me up because she got me LoZ for the NES. I spent the Summer playing this game and loving it. And yes, i apologized for being a brat.
It's certain that the core elements of Zelda games are already in LoZ. Yet the game is still very cryptic, there are barely any clue, if any, and the same can be said about its successor AoL. ALTTP on the other hand found the right balance so that the player can find the solution to a problem by himself, giving him a feeling of gratification. That ability to solve the puzzle by yourself has been central to all Zelda games after it. Another problem about LoZ is that game is actually quite hard. That difficulty forces the player to try several times, learning sequences by heart, and therefore limiting the sense of exploration that you would expect from an adventure game. Miyamoto understood that after AoL, coming to the conclusion that ALTTP should be made easier, so that exploration would be more fluid.
I mean, the manual gives you plenty of clues and gives you a whole map and walkthrough to the first dungeon, and previews of the second. All that stuff just isn't in the game itself.
love your videos! you cover the history of these games so well, and i think it would be with your time to do some work on your japanese pronunciation to show that little extra bit of reverence and respect to these amazing developers.
Let me guess, Hydlied was the first Cartridge based game to use backup saves on the NES. I guess Nintendo wouldn't want to admit that a game before them had to walk before Zelda knew how to run.
My top 10 Zelda Games 🛡️🙏 #1 Majora’s Mask #2 Twilight Princess #3 A Link Between Worlds #4 Ocarina of Time #5 Breath of the Wild #6 A Link To The Past #7 Minish Cap #8 Zelda 2: Adventures of Link #9 Link’s Awakening #10 Legend of Zelda(Original)
Open world gaming to me means that you can interact with a game loop that the developers didn't necessarily intend (or not connected to finish the game). Open world I think is strongly connected to how you can interact with the parts of the game and maybe put an emphasize on exploration, experimenting and investigation rather than finishing the game content. The definition that "open world has a connected map well depends how you implement the game. I don't think that having a big map where you can travel where you want necessarily constitutes an "open world".
What you talked about is usually called an immersive sim, not an open world. The definition is confusing, though, since it seems all immersive sims are directed by the same two people, but the idea is to have systems in the game that can interact with each other in ways the devs didn’t intend.
@@sdFreerey "immersive sim", hm, interesting. However I consider Daggerfall to be open world and RPG. I don't know if you you describe it by calling it "immersive sim". Also Fallout 1&2.
@@deltapi8859 I wouldn’t describe those as immersive sims, because usually immersive sims have a narrow streamlined focus and, compared to your examples, small and confined worlds that are all handcrafted. Stuff like Arx Fatalis, Dishonored, and System Shock are usually what people think of as immersive sims.
The dungeon creation for players came many years later, right? So it never happend to Zelda 1. I think it came with Link's Awakening for Switch 2019...
This was a great overview but I have a small or slight suggestion in that your use of the words softlock and hardlock might throw some people off because those are already established terms to mean other things. Hardlock is when a game crashes, freezes or malfunctions completely while a softlock is when you're unable to progress a part of a game that's intended for progression due to a software bug or untested poor level design where the player is accidentally trapped in a pit, stuck in a wall, or basically being forced into resetting the game. The phenomenon you're describing I've heard of it referred to as a, "level gate," or an area being, "item locked," meaning you can't progress to that area without a required item. Keep up the fantastic work! 😇
Ironically Metroid WAS an open world game but it isn't anymore. Metroid games tend to be quite linear, though by the end of the game you can go anywhere you want.
What perfectly named and proportioned video have you made on your channel that lets you have such an opinion and not just be a useless, self-entitled critic?
0:34 why is it those games run at low frame rates, but our high frame capture can't capture blinking/flashing of characters? That's the real question lol
I was 7 when my older brother came home from the store w a brand new NES in the box and copies of RC Pro Am and LoZ. I asked what they were and the wise ass said “one’s a racing game and the other teaches you how to make pies”. I still remember the disappointment I felt at this lol. Little did I know it ended up being a game that helped shaped my childhood and whose legacy still piques interest of gamers of any age. Great retrospective.
What was the pie thing?
He wasn't lying, you make a piece of pie from 8 pieces with a lot of stabby action in between lol
Pie-rule
@@michaelstevenson5044 legend of Zelda. He was being a wisenheimer
I had a similar experience - I was hoping my brother was going to buy Mario 2 and he brought this home. I was so disappointed. Fast forward and this game became special to everyone in my family. We loved discovering and sharing secrets.
As an aside - a similar thing happened with the snes. My brother purchased secret of mana instead of Zelda LttP: disappointment followed by years of love for secret of mana (obviously still love LttP too!)
My ears are in love with this version
This was a great overview of the history and an intriguing discussion of the (somewhat nebulous) definition of genres such as "open world games"
I'm personally fascinating by the fact that, even though they didn't go through with it in the end, the idea around Link being the...well, link, between two times and/or worlds seems to a central concept for the series even at the very beginning.
Keep up the good work ^_^
Man, time really flies. It only feels like yesterday when I was watching the original podcast...
Thia was my intro to gaming. We spent days trying to beat it. Now im listening to this while playing BOTW knowing theres anotger whole game after this one. IM IN GAMING HEAVEN!!😊
Zelda was not described as a role playing game at the time of release, nor in the years after. That was crystal clear to me as a kid in the 80s- I was reading virtually everything that was written about Zelda at the time, never any mention of Zelda as an RPG. We did not have a term for what kind of game it was. Personally, I referred to it as an adventure game during those early years, and I do recall often referring to it as an action-adventure. There still is no term for what kind of game it is. There is no game anything like it, not even any of the Zelda sequels are like Zelda 1 almost whatsoever, with Zelda 3 coming closest to being similar. This is why Zelda 1 is genre defying.
@@SamusGunship Perhaps not everywhere but it certainly was considered an RPG, and from my own experience I would say I recall seeing Zelda games primarily classified as RPGs in to the early '00s.
Here's a couple examples I found, this isn't an exhaustive list, but it's just to give an idea of what I was saying.
1. Check out the review on pg. 144 which refers to Zelda as a role playing game. web.archive.org/web/20210610164925/retrocdn.net/images/d/d9/ACE_UK_26.pdf#page=144
2. Famitsu is printed in Japanese but the letters RPG are still plain to read in its review of LOZ. cdn-ak.f.st-hatena.com/images/fotolife/M/MULTi88/20200420/20200420023445.jpg
3. And you can see in this archive link from 2001 that Nintendo had Zelda games categorized as RPGs in their website. web.archive.org/web/20010517052024/www.nintendo.com/games/specific_category.jsp?genreId=8
Yes, many of today's labels did not exist back then. This was an "adventure" game back then. Super Mario Bros was a side-scrolling action game, as "platformer" was not a thing yet.
@@greenmachine5487 I seem to remember hearing the word platformer at the very least in common use in the early 90s, and probably earlier
Hydlide and Ys are Action RPGs and the closest parallels to Zelda.
It's more likely the RPG moniker was used in Japan, because in Japan back then, everything that was inspired by RPGs were called RPGs.
@@Mer.Saloon yeah well i can't speak for how it was in Japan at the time, but I can for how it was in the US, because I was steeped in these games, and in the late 80s I was literally obsessed with Zelda 1. We knew what an RPG was, and Zelda 1 was most definitely not an RPG.
I do not see almost anything similar about Hydlide and Ys with Zelda, except for the vantage point. Sorry
You really should try the second quest, it’s pretty different and fun! Loved this version of your work, can’t wait to see the updates to the other videos ❤
I 100% agree with everything you said about the open world question
Two things that prove to me that The Legend of Zelda is open-world:
1. Of the 128 overworld screens, only two require an item of any kind to reach. While extremely difficult, Link can get to Spectacle Rock before getting the sword.
2. Levels 1, 2, 3, and 8 can be found, entered, and completed in any order. The only locks for half of the levels are items found in the overworld and the difficulty curve.
Well done! Greatly enjoyed your video
Nothing's really made me feel like this game since. The world seemed so huge. The challenges and mysteries were difficult but not to the point of angering you.
Legend of Zelda, Dark Souls, and then Breathe of the Wild were the 3 times in my like I felt a certain way.
Gotta love the commitment those dungeon dudes have. They are presumably imprisoned there, yet they're still like, "they hate a certain sound."
"Tell me man, the flute? Help me help you!"
This is so great, thanks for your hard work and research!
It's never been confirmed but Kondo's main theme and dungeon theme sound similar to a long song by Deep Purple called "April", not sure if Kondo took subconscious inspiration from that tune. It's an amazing track from IIRC Deep Purple's third album.
Great video!
Great video. Subbed. Any plans on doing a video on A Link Between Worlds? That's my favorite Zelda game.
@@retroman-- I will get there eventually
@@legendaryadventurespod translation: you never played it :-O
@@retroman-- I've played it, but I'm going through the games in release order
Amazing well researched!
7:39- "We were inspired by Peter Pan, not completely of course, otherwise it wouldn't have been great because we would've been sued by that other company that is just litigious as us" -my interpretation of Miyamoto.
Sorry but that's not how I understood it. Obviously he didn't want Link to be Peter Pan, Link is supposed to be the legendary hero the player identifies to. Inspiration is limited to the tunic and the pointy ears, but Link's personality has nothing to do with the one of Peter Pan.
I remember my mother waking me up the first day of summer vacation when I was 10. I was angry because I wanted to sleep in but she had woken me up because she got me LoZ for the NES. I spent the Summer playing this game and loving it.
And yes, i apologized for being a brat.
It's certain that the core elements of Zelda games are already in LoZ. Yet the game is still very cryptic, there are barely any clue, if any, and the same can be said about its successor AoL. ALTTP on the other hand found the right balance so that the player can find the solution to a problem by himself, giving him a feeling of gratification. That ability to solve the puzzle by yourself has been central to all Zelda games after it.
Another problem about LoZ is that game is actually quite hard. That difficulty forces the player to try several times, learning sequences by heart, and therefore limiting the sense of exploration that you would expect from an adventure game. Miyamoto understood that after AoL, coming to the conclusion that ALTTP should be made easier, so that exploration would be more fluid.
I mean, the manual gives you plenty of clues and gives you a whole map and walkthrough to the first dungeon, and previews of the second. All that stuff just isn't in the game itself.
love your videos! you cover the history of these games so well, and i think it would be with your time to do some work on your japanese pronunciation to show that little extra bit of reverence and respect to these amazing developers.
Let me guess, Hydlied was the first Cartridge based game to use backup saves on the NES.
I guess Nintendo wouldn't want to admit that a game before them had to walk before Zelda knew how to run.
5:08 -- We managed to get that with Mario...we're still waiting for chance to do that with Zelda...almost 40 years later :(
Great!
"Name your Character? what should I name them?" ....Friend next to me, "Uh... I dunno just call it Zelda." "Yeah alright."
DOOMED.
Love your stuff! Been following for ages now.
Just an fyi:
Your title screen reads "poscast" instead of podcast.
was also sitting here wondering if thats an insider term
Paul Andrew Smith -cast. That's his name. *head canon updated*
@@brandonkemenymusic D'oh!
@@legendaryadventurespod happens to the best of us.
Is there a chance you could do a spin-off podcast for Mario or Zelda spin-off titles?
@@randallscott4581 I wouldn't be able to fit that in at this time.
I didn't mean right now, your voice is nice to listen to, and, in my opinion, expanding your work beyond Zelda would be a treat.
My top 10 Zelda Games 🛡️🙏
#1 Majora’s Mask
#2 Twilight Princess
#3 A Link Between Worlds
#4 Ocarina of Time
#5 Breath of the Wild
#6 A Link To The Past
#7 Minish Cap
#8 Zelda 2: Adventures of Link
#9 Link’s Awakening
#10 Legend of Zelda(Original)
eastern peninsula will be revealed on switch2
Where is the version of Zelda that's "Make your own Zelda Dungeons" that 'no one liked'?
I'd like to see that.
So everything was completely random and discovered along the way.
What SuperPlay magazine from 2003 are you referencing? SuperPlay ended in the mid 90s
@@liamschulzrules The Swedish magazine which ended in 2009
@@legendaryadventurespod oh ok cool I'll look it up
Open world gaming to me means that you can interact with a game loop that the developers didn't necessarily intend (or not connected to finish the game). Open world I think is strongly connected to how you can interact with the parts of the game and maybe put an emphasize on exploration, experimenting and investigation rather than finishing the game content. The definition that "open world has a connected map well depends how you implement the game. I don't think that having a big map where you can travel where you want necessarily constitutes an "open world".
What you talked about is usually called an immersive sim, not an open world. The definition is confusing, though, since it seems all immersive sims are directed by the same two people, but the idea is to have systems in the game that can interact with each other in ways the devs didn’t intend.
@@sdFreerey "immersive sim", hm, interesting. However I consider Daggerfall to be open world and RPG. I don't know if you you describe it by calling it "immersive sim". Also Fallout 1&2.
@@deltapi8859 I wouldn’t describe those as immersive sims, because usually immersive sims have a narrow streamlined focus and, compared to your examples, small and confined worlds that are all handcrafted. Stuff like Arx Fatalis, Dishonored, and System Shock are usually what people think of as immersive sims.
You left out the part of Takashi Tezuka inspired by Lord of the Rings books and Keiji Terui by medieval wars!
The dungeon creation for players came many years later, right? So it never happend to Zelda 1. I think it came with Link's Awakening for Switch 2019...
It's a hard-lock life, for me.
Soft locks are more fun
Out of curiosity, would you consider the Metroid games open world?
@@Twisted_Logic I personally would, and that aligns with the article I cited as well.
We got Mario maker..
Now we need Zelda maker.
This was a great overview but I have a small or slight suggestion in that your use of the words softlock and hardlock might throw some people off because those are already established terms to mean other things. Hardlock is when a game crashes, freezes or malfunctions completely while a softlock is when you're unable to progress a part of a game that's intended for progression due to a software bug or untested poor level design where the player is accidentally trapped in a pit, stuck in a wall, or basically being forced into resetting the game. The phenomenon you're describing I've heard of it referred to as a, "level gate," or an area being, "item locked," meaning you can't progress to that area without a required item. Keep up the fantastic work! 😇
Is Dimitri meant to be a triceratops or a dodongo? They look pretty similar.
@@Sara-bear-a He is a dodongo, but they do look similar
Ironically Metroid WAS an open world game but it isn't anymore. Metroid games tend to be quite linear, though by the end of the game you can go anywhere you want.
First thank you very much for pronouncing brothers instead of broze.
Video is 50% fascinating history of the game's development, and then 50% opinions on definitions on terms.
Just stop watching at 14 minutes.
What perfectly named and proportioned video have you made on your channel that lets you have such an opinion and not just be a useless, self-entitled critic?
Hey I made a game, it has a secret. To find the secret you have to name your character a name. The name of the game is also a name. Good luck!
A dungeon-maker, while fun, wouldn't have been good for a first foray into this type of game anyway.
0:02 What is the significance of blurring the right-hand fire?
@@l9day No significance. Just a side effect of a quick edit in UA-cam studio to remove a typo.
0:34 why is it those games run at low frame rates, but our high frame capture can't capture blinking/flashing of characters?
That's the real question lol