I almost bought one about 40 years ago. But ammo was just about unobtainable so passed on it. Wish I would have bought it, that 401 is the More powerful than the 44 mag would be a great deer rifle for the woods. Thank you Mark. It's good to see you back at the cinnabar!
@@Theonederboyyes it is. With a 250 gr. Factory load at about 1870 fps and 1940 fp muzzle energy. It's closer to the 44 mag than the 444 Marlin but definitely more powerful than the 44 mag.
I know you are partial to Winchesters, but don't pass up a chance to shoot a Remington Model 8, or 81 with the long recoil action (if haven't already). Thanks for another video.
Very nice, I have each model, one 03, two 05's (.32 & .35). three 07's, one 1910, 1911 WIdowmaker 12 gauge and a 63 I first saw these weapons in some 1930's gangster movie, wit a buncha dames. gats, cigarette smoke, hard liquor and crooked coppers. A newspaper article I found from the late 1920's/early 1930's in a local newspaper had an article and picture of the first motorcycle cops on the force, and their new rifles, Winchester 1907's
I have a 1910 standard model. It’s rather blue worn and beat up but it still works great . As you mentioned, ammo is real hard to find. I make my own out of, believe it or not, 7.62 x 39 brass that’s been reformed. I also make it out of 303 British brass, but it requires a lot of lathe work to get it to size. For reloading, .41 magnum dies work just fine.
I was in a gun shop in Ohio in about 1968. There was a 55gal barrel full of 351 Winchesters. They were former correctional facility rifles. $100-$120ea. Take your pick. To put it in perspective, that was the price of a brand new S&W K38 + tax.
The .32 WSL round was the inspiration for the 30 US M1 carbine cartridge. The .30 Carbine cartridge was developed by Winchester and is basically a rimless .30 caliber (7.62 mm) version of the much older .32 Winchester Self-Loading cartridge of 1906 introduced for the Winchester Model 1905 rifle. The .30 Carbine uses a lighter bullet (110 grain versus 165 grain) and improved powder. As a result, it has approximately 41% higher muzzle velocity with 27% more impact energy than the parent .32 WSL cartridge. The .30 Carbine's relatively straight case and round nose bullet have misled some to believe it was designed for use in pistols. U.S. Army specifications for the new cartridge mandated the caliber to be greater than .27, with an effective range of 300 yards or more, and a midrange trajectory ordinate of 18 inches or less at 300 yards. With these requirements in hand, Winchester's Edwin Pugsley chose to design the cartridge with a .30 caliber, 100-120 grain bullet at a velocity of 2,000 feet per second. The first cartridges were made by turning down rims on .32SL cases and loading with .308 caliber bullets which had a similar profile to those of the U.S. military .45 ACP bullets. The first 100,000 cartridges manufactured were headstamped ".30 SL" (for "self-loading") www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/cartridge-of-the-week.7804/
I wonder if the winchester 1903 was the inspiration for the browning .22 take down auto rifle. Both load from the butt. The browning SA-22 began production in 1914.
(Mike C.) Every time I watch you do a shooting video I get the urge to go burn some powder myself. Can't let you keep all the fun to yourself! Mark, I really thought the video you did on original smokeless loads for black powder rifles was excellent and very informative. Got me thinking, have you ever used duplex loads? I am curious to see if a guy can get original velocities for 44-40 or 56-50 Spencer using modern constructed cases with duplex loads ( enough smokeless to make up for the 5-10 grain capacity loss ). Really look forward to your content every week!
My uncle Tom used the 401 on elk in the 60s because it fit in his backpack. Killed a few sheep with it too. Peep sight. I sure wish I knew what happened to that rifle.
When I was 13 I hunted with a Winchester 401 it was the first rifle I got to carry I hunted with a 20 gauge with slugs the year before I didn't get to shoot the 401 at all I got a 94 in 30-30 for my 14th birth day I got my first deer with that one I don't have it but I'll never forget it
the old Remington semi autos are pretty interesting. wait what am i saying all old guns are interesting along with the new ones! why don't the gun manufactures do like guitar company's do and re issue the popular vintage models? or car company's? can you imagine how fast a 55 bel air or 57chevy reissues would sell out? or a 63 corvette reissue..ford mopar they all have designs that would be far more popular than thier current cookie cutter lack luster offerings..am i crazy or is their a huge missed opportunity here?
Always enjoy your videos.I am in the process of restoring a Win 1903...metalwork complete and now on to the stock. When I am done I will share a photo. The .22 Auto ammo is at approx $400 for a brick plus shipping. Last company that made it was Agilla.
Yep. I’d buy a deluxe version in 357 and 41 mag. I have a 07 but I don’t shoot it as much as I’d like due to ammunition costs. And component cost is bad as well due to limited selection of jacketed bullets. But at least the one they do sell is high quality and is very good as a short range hunting bullet. 👍🏼
I don’t think 357 would work for this design seeing as it’s a rimmed cartridge. There was that one off prototype from Winchester 1905 that was chambered in 45 acp and took 1911 mags. I could see that being easier to make and much more popular
@@inadequatefoodstuffs It wouldn't be ideal, but there have been successful semi-autos that have used rimmed cartridges. The Coonan .357 Magnum 1911 is one, and any patents on the mags must have lapsed by now. Although I'm thinking the .350 and .400 Legend cartridges would be ideal, if they aren't too hot for the design. Other cartridges that could work are 10mm auto and (going full circle) .30 Carbine.
New Liberty Arms, a reproduction company out here in Richfield is working on a line of repops. We're planning a PCC designed around the 1905 as well as looking into some various straightwall cartridges.
That's pretty nice 401 👍 I have a very nice standard grade I have been meaning to take deer hunting. I think it would be an excellent eastern type deer gun. I don't however' like how it makes cases disappear & jacketed projectiles are virtually impossible to get!
Nice rifles. Your comment about the maximum effective range of the .401 Winchester reminded me of a fellow NZ Deerstalker who took his Ruger .44 semiauto down to Stewart Island to hunt whitetail in the late? 1990s. He did not think to resight his rifle from 50 metres to 75 metres before the trip. He found himself a nice clearing, spotted a deer and fired off all four (4) rounds without hitting the animal😂! Cheers from NZ🇳🇿.
I have had a 1907 .351 (2) one was in excellent shape but traded it ( regret). My grandpa on my mom's side used one as a part-time Deputy Sheriff and later as a Corrections Officer. Really liked it. I have always wanted the 1910 .401 far better than a .44 Magnum carbine. Thanks for reviewing these interesting firearms.
Love the old early semi autos. All are pretty quirky. I have a Remington model 81 which is pretty much the same as the older model 8... It is a lot like a Auto 5 shotgun with no gas system at all... if that is not quirky enough it has a fixed single stack magazine that you load with stripper clips (unobtainable but M1a clips will work) mine is in 300 savage which is a very useful round. I really like the old Winchester 351 round tho and its removeable magazine.
There is a video on yt where a friend shoots my .351 into ballistil gel with very impressive results. It was the only time he put music to any of his videos. He is known as the Brassfetcher.
I've got a model five in the 35 self loader as they were called it's in very good to excellent condition and a three digit serial number @@thecinnabar8442
I have a Winchester 1911 SL shotgun have you considered doing a video on them? I know they had a short production run and were nicknamed the Widowmaker.
The Winchester model 88 is a lever action. The model 100 is a much later semi-auto Winchester than we were demonstrating in this video. There's nothing wrong with the model 100, but I don't have one. Sadly, I don't have an example of every gun ever made, but I'd sure like to. 🤣🤣🤣
I almost bought one about 40 years ago. But ammo was just about unobtainable so passed on it. Wish I would have bought it, that 401 is the More powerful than the 44 mag would be a great deer rifle for the woods. Thank you Mark. It's good to see you back at the cinnabar!
Isn’t it in between 444 Marlin and 44 mag?
@@Theonederboyyes it is. With a 250 gr. Factory load at about 1870 fps and 1940 fp muzzle energy. It's closer to the 44 mag than the 444 Marlin but definitely more powerful than the 44 mag.
I know you are partial to Winchesters, but don't pass up a chance to shoot a Remington Model 8, or 81 with the long recoil action (if haven't already). Thanks for another video.
Very nice, I have each model, one 03, two 05's (.32 & .35). three 07's, one 1910, 1911 WIdowmaker 12 gauge and a 63 I first saw these weapons in some 1930's gangster movie, wit a buncha dames. gats, cigarette smoke, hard liquor and crooked coppers. A newspaper article I found from the late 1920's/early 1930's in a local newspaper had an article and picture of the first motorcycle cops on the force, and their new rifles, Winchester 1907's
I have a 1910 standard model. It’s rather blue worn and beat up but it still works great . As you mentioned, ammo is real hard to find. I make my own out of, believe it or not, 7.62 x 39 brass that’s been reformed. I also make it out of 303 British brass, but it requires a lot of lathe work to get it to size. For reloading, .41 magnum dies work just fine.
Howdy, Are you planning on attending the upcoming Winchester Arms Collectors Show in Cody this year?
Yes Sir! Living the dream you are. Thank you a bunch for sharing a glimpse of your world!
I was in a gun shop in Ohio in about 1968. There was a 55gal barrel full of 351 Winchesters. They were former correctional facility rifles. $100-$120ea. Take your pick. To put it in perspective, that was the price of a brand new S&W K38 + tax.
That 401 would make an excellent brush gun!
The 351 was also a great deer gun.
The .32 WSL round was the inspiration for the 30 US M1 carbine cartridge.
The .30 Carbine cartridge was developed by Winchester and is basically a rimless .30 caliber (7.62 mm) version of the much older .32 Winchester Self-Loading cartridge of 1906 introduced for the Winchester Model 1905 rifle.
The .30 Carbine uses a lighter bullet (110 grain versus 165 grain) and improved powder. As a result, it has approximately 41% higher muzzle velocity with 27% more impact energy than the parent .32 WSL cartridge. The .30 Carbine's relatively straight case and round nose bullet have misled some to believe it was designed for use in pistols.
U.S. Army specifications for the new cartridge mandated the caliber to be greater than .27, with an effective range of 300 yards or more, and a midrange trajectory ordinate of 18 inches or less at 300 yards. With these requirements in hand, Winchester's Edwin Pugsley chose to design the cartridge with a .30 caliber, 100-120 grain bullet at a velocity of 2,000 feet per second. The first cartridges were made by turning down rims on .32SL cases and loading with .308 caliber bullets which had a similar profile to those of the U.S. military .45 ACP bullets. The first 100,000 cartridges manufactured were headstamped ".30 SL" (for "self-loading")
www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/cartridge-of-the-week.7804/
I wonder if the winchester 1903 was the inspiration for the browning .22 take down auto rifle. Both load from the butt. The browning SA-22 began production in 1914.
Do the 1911 shotgun next...
Good to see you back in the Cinnabar 🤗
Good looking rifles! Thank you for sharing them with us!
(Mike C.) Every time I watch you do a shooting video I get the urge to go burn some powder myself. Can't let you keep all the fun to yourself! Mark, I really thought the video you did on original smokeless loads for black powder rifles was excellent and very informative. Got me thinking, have you ever used duplex loads? I am curious to see if a guy can get original velocities for 44-40 or 56-50 Spencer using modern constructed cases with duplex loads ( enough smokeless to make up for the 5-10 grain capacity loss ). Really look forward to your content every week!
My uncle Tom used the 401 on elk in the 60s because it fit in his backpack. Killed a few sheep with it too. Peep sight. I sure wish I knew what happened to that rifle.
When I was 13 I hunted with a Winchester 401 it was the first rifle I got to carry I hunted with a 20 gauge with slugs the year before I didn't get to shoot the 401 at all I got a 94 in 30-30 for my 14th birth day I got my first deer with that one I don't have it but I'll never forget it
I always come here to see the guns that I'll never own. Love the history you provide.
Never say never
Browning leaving Winchester was like Shelby leaving Ford.
the old Remington semi autos are pretty interesting. wait what am i saying all old guns are interesting along with the new ones! why don't the gun manufactures do like guitar company's do and re issue the popular vintage models? or car company's? can you imagine how fast a 55 bel air or 57chevy reissues would sell out? or a 63 corvette reissue..ford mopar they all have designs that would be far more popular than thier current cookie cutter lack luster offerings..am i crazy or is their a huge missed opportunity here?
I love my 1907
There’s no place like home. Beautiful day at the cinnabar. Good video. God bless
I cast n load all my ammo from 1985 ..
Always enjoy your videos.I am in the process of restoring a Win 1903...metalwork complete and now on to the stock. When I am done I will share a photo. The .22 Auto ammo is at approx $400 for a brick plus shipping. Last company that made it was Agilla.
Winchester should do retro versions chambered in the popular straight wall cartridges..
That would be a very interesting reproduction. I'm kind of surprised the Italians haven't made them.
Yep. I’d buy a deluxe version in 357 and 41 mag. I have a 07 but I don’t shoot it as much as I’d like due to ammunition costs. And component cost is bad as well due to limited selection of jacketed bullets. But at least the one they do sell is high quality and is very good as a short range hunting bullet. 👍🏼
I don’t think 357 would work for this design seeing as it’s a rimmed cartridge. There was that one off prototype from Winchester 1905 that was chambered in 45 acp and took 1911 mags. I could see that being easier to make and much more popular
@@inadequatefoodstuffs It wouldn't be ideal, but there have been successful semi-autos that have used rimmed cartridges. The Coonan .357 Magnum 1911 is one, and any patents on the mags must have lapsed by now. Although I'm thinking the .350 and .400 Legend cartridges would be ideal, if they aren't too hot for the design. Other cartridges that could work are 10mm auto and (going full circle) .30 Carbine.
New Liberty Arms, a reproduction company out here in Richfield is working on a line of repops. We're planning a PCC designed around the 1905 as well as looking into some various straightwall cartridges.
Thanks for bringing them out and knocking the dust off them! Very cool!
Great informative video ! Thank you! 👍🏽😀❤️🇺🇸
I was thinking the same thing about the M1 carbine and how similar the ammo looked. I absolutely love my model 100 in 308.
Fantastic!
I have a 1907, great gun.
On my bucket list to find
Thanks for the video. I know nothing about them and have never shot one but now I know something
Good video, but the Let's Go Brandon adds on gun channels are seriously a bunch of malarkey!!
Sadly, we don't have any control over the ads that are placed on our videos. Really ticks me off, too.
Those are very unique. That charging mechanism is unlike anything I've seen before. Thanks for sharing!
If I remember, John Browning patented the side charging handle used on the Remington Model 8, so Winchester had to devise a different method.
That hole line up was excellent shooters
Hey Mark. Do you think the 400 Legend my be a reincarnation of the .401WSL?
It definitely it. So is the 350 legend 👍🏼
We recently built some 400 LGND for guys on the eastern side. Full video series coming soon, subscribe to the channel for more info!
Thanks for sharing those wonderful rifles with us!
No Model 100's? Just kidding, thanks for letting us see those nice old gals in action Mark.
Interesting old rifles you do not see very often these days
Wow those are beautiful rifles!
That's pretty nice 401 👍 I have a very nice standard grade I have been meaning to take deer hunting. I think it would be an excellent eastern type deer gun. I don't however' like how it makes cases disappear & jacketed projectiles are virtually impossible to get!
Graf & Sons have the bullets.
I remember reading that Prison's bought a lot of the 351 and 401.
Four very interesting rifles. Thanks for showing them!
I always enjoy your videos Mark. Thanks!
Nice rifles. Your comment about the maximum effective range of the .401 Winchester reminded me of a fellow NZ Deerstalker who took his Ruger .44 semiauto down to Stewart Island to hunt whitetail in the late? 1990s. He did not think to resight his rifle from 50 metres to 75 metres before the trip. He found himself a nice clearing, spotted a deer and fired off all four (4) rounds without hitting the animal😂!
Cheers from NZ🇳🇿.
Thank you. I too am a lever guy but those early Winchester semiautomatic were cool.
I have had a 1907 .351 (2) one was in excellent shape but traded it ( regret). My grandpa on my mom's side used one as a part-time Deputy Sheriff and later as a Corrections Officer. Really liked it. I have always wanted the 1910 .401 far better than a .44 Magnum carbine. Thanks for reviewing these interesting firearms.
Thanks Mark! I'm wanting to go to Cody to visit the museum and area. Is there a particular time of the year that you would recommend?
Great video Mark, on Winchesters semi auto rifles.
Thanks for showing us those early semi autos Rarely you see those.
Love the old early semi autos. All are pretty quirky. I have a Remington model 81 which is pretty much the same as the older model 8... It is a lot like a Auto 5 shotgun with no gas system at all... if that is not quirky enough it has a fixed single stack magazine that you load with stripper clips (unobtainable but M1a clips will work) mine is in 300 savage which is a very useful round. I really like the old Winchester 351 round tho and its removeable magazine.
I enjoy my model 63 ; I have become enthralled with Winchesters and I keep my eye peeled for vintage models. Thank you for your informative program
There is a video on yt where a friend shoots my .351 into ballistil gel with very impressive results. It was the only time he put music to any of his videos. He is known as the Brassfetcher.
Was the Winchester rim fire a 5 mm. Or was it the wrf the one that's comparable to the 22 mag in size
It kinda takes down like a 62 A.
Great to see you back on the ranch and a great vidio to boot...
I had a 1907.. I just couldn’t get into it
Very nice rifles. Aloha
Mark, can you please comment on how the original magazines were made? I do not see any seams on mine.
Sorry, I don't have any insights as to the particulars as to how they were made.
@@thecinnabar8442 I would encourage you to look at them. It appears they were formed out of a single piece of metal.
I've got a model five in the 35 self loader as they were called it's in very good to excellent condition and a three digit serial number @@thecinnabar8442
Good to see ya in Lake County again.
I have a Winchester 1911 SL shotgun have you considered doing a video on them? I know they had a short production run and were nicknamed the Widowmaker.
Thank you 😉
Why but why did I sold my O7 !!
Probably because the forearm was cracked. 😉😁👍🏼
is the 88 Winchester to new for you?
The Winchester model 88 is a lever action. The model 100 is a much later semi-auto Winchester than we were demonstrating in this video. There's nothing wrong with the model 100, but I don't have one. Sadly, I don't have an example of every gun ever made, but I'd sure like to. 🤣🤣🤣
@@thecinnabar8442 lol im well aware that the 88 is a lever i was just wondering with all the levers you have and represent why not do an 88 vid
Some Pretty Awesome Rifles 😀😇😀😊❤️
Man that John Browning was a real wizard. Thanks Mark for that run down.