Guitar Speaker Shootout, Celestion, JBl D120F, Eminence, Altec Lansing using a Marshall JCM-2000
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- Опубліковано 16 гру 2011
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Jeff Floro and Joe Mazzeo take you through a great speaker shootout. They test everything form Celestion Greenbacks, Vintage 30, Eminence Vintage 30, JBL D120F, Altec Lansing and others. Joe plays through a Marshall JCM-2000 Triple Super Lead and uses a Jackson guitar.
Each cabinet is recorded using a Shure SM-57 microphone plugged into the a Zoom H4n. The final audio for each speaker is a blend of the SM-57 and the overhead mics from the Zoom H4n.
Joe plugs directly into the Marshall head and uses only a custom switchbox to go between all the cabinets/speakers.
List of Speakers Tested:
Celestion 25 watt Greenbacks (G12 M)
Celestion 75 watt (G12T-75)
JBL D120-F
Celestion Vintage 30
Eminence Vintage 30 Copy
Altec Lansing 417
EVM 12L
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Equipment Used: Jackson Guitars, Marshall JCM-2000, Diezel Cabinets, Marshall Cabinets, Bandmaster Cabinet, Shure SM-57, Zoom H4n, Canon Mark II 5D
Video By: Scott Sill
Very cool. Thanks for putting the time in and making this!
Np
Thanks for the feedback. We will certainly try to make sure we show all the mic positions are the same next test. I agree with you regarding the different cabinets, but we worked with what we had with no budget!
Thanks so much for stopping by, I hope to see you back again.
What a surprise! My favorite was the Eminence Vintage 30 Copy.
Yeah it's a nice speaker
great suggestion, thanks for watching. I hope to see you back again sometime soon.
I agree, I really thought the Celestion Vintage 30s did really well in this test too. Feel free to come back again and subscribe.
Thanks - speakers are such a critical component that many people don't consider often enough. Really helps to have these demos. But remember, unless you have a mic up close to a speaker, it will sound different from cabinet to cabinet. Also, different than when you are practicing or using an cab that is not mic'd up. A small enclosure sounds different than a big one. And if you are using a mic, mic placement makes a huge difference. This demo certainly helps hear speaker character though.
Nice
Thanks man, I let Joe know your kind words and he was very greatful. Thanks for stoping by.
Very good point. Thanks for the feedback.
That would be a great comparison. Hopefully we can dig up some other speaker types and test them out.
Excellent demo guys! It really helps to check out demos like yours when a guy is on the fence about what kind of speakers he wants to go with... Interesting to see a blues player using a shredder axe! But the Eruption opening chords were a nice touch! Well done guys!
Thx
Jim here 67 yrs old. The JBL D120 #1, for clean tele etc, 2the Celestion 30s for basic rock, the Celestion 75 for grunge, The Altec sounded good for again clean lipstick pickups surfcaster stuff, The Celestion 25's for 70's rock. Thanks.
Thx for your thoughts
That would be a great thing for them to have for sure! Thanks for watching and hope to see you back again sometime soon.
Just spoke with Joe the owner of the speakers and cabinets and they were Eminence copies of Vintage 30s speced out by Diezel and Uwe. Not sure if they are a regular speaker you can buy unless you get a specific Diezel cab.
I really loved the V30 copies too.
@Zillogism, thanks for the comments. This was an off the cuff speaker test that we thought would be fun. I recently did one on Celestion only speakers making sure the same cabinet and mic placement was used everytime. You should check it out.
Thanks so much Rick!
3:26 Greenbacks,
3:51 Celestion 75
4:18 GBL D120 F
4:43 Ceestion V30's
5:11 Emeinence V30's Copy
5:34 Altec Lancing 417
6:03 EVM 12L
6:47 So, but any way
7:01 So any way...
Rock on
Might be worth doing a demo on this to demonstrate this effect if it does exist. I'll look into it. Thanks for the comment.
@Stephentherarabear, thanks for stopping by.
I think Greenback Is the best of all
Thx for stopping by
Thanks man. Feel free to come back and view some of my other videos.
I just spoke with Joe the owner of all these speakers and none of them were Governors. They were Eminence copies of the Vintage 30s speced out by Diezel & Uwe.
Thanks for this video! At least one of the better speaker comparisons. I highly prefer the sound of the Greenback 25.
Nice
wow never knew anything had more clarity than a jbl d120 , but that Celestion vintage 30 was super clear and had a nice bell chime.
Nice
@cilcannonvryce thanks for coming by, I hope to see you around again in the future. Thanks for the comment.
Hey Guys...Rick from Celestion here. Thanks for making the video, lots of fun! Cheers
Rick thanks for reaching out..... from all the way back then
@MrJAMVideo Thanks Dude! More coming as always
@owenface1, I checked with the original owner of the speaker and he isn't sure which one it is. The original sticker on the back of the speaker is missing so there isn't a way to really tell.
I think the folks there would argue each amp recorded different than it sounded live. That could be the SM-57 coloring them, but honestly I couldn't tell much difference in the room because it was so loud, but listening the recordings it was obvious to me. Thanks for stopping by and feel free to subscribe!
With the SM-57, anything sounds SM-57 first. SM-57 is OK to hghlight some freq when teamed with the 15x more expensive Royer R-121.
If you want a PA mic where you recognise your amp, go for the Sennheiser e906, and it's much easier for placement : you just let it fall, hanging to its cable, in front of the speaker... All the PA for hire companies we have here have long switched to the e906 (about 15 years now) : they do better job than the '57, are not so expensive and much easier to use : rather than losing time at fine tuning the SM-57 placement, it makes life much easier.
I do like the 906
Nice! I would love to hear a comparison between a Celestion Heritage G12H "75 Hz" and the new Eminence Eric Johnson speakers.
Ok
Superb guys!!! Cant see how the eminence copys of the vintage 30s sound in any way close but theyre decent in their own right.
Ok
Different cabinets pretty much negate any "comparison". I still believe you pretty good idea of each speakers voicing though.
Yeah this was fixed in my later vids
All about those Greenbacks!
Right on
I didn't see anywhere what pickup your running in the Jackson? The Greenbacks and 75 mixed would be Awesome! ! Great demo guys!!
Tim Stanley my guess is he was using the bridge pickup, but it was a long time ago so I really don't know.
seymore duncan custom custom.
@twonkytwonk Thanks so much for watching, I hope to see you back at some of my other videos.
Great stuff! Do you know if the altec is a 417-8h or 417-8c?
Not sure
@GODBOXFX Thanks for watching. We will have quite a bit more coming, most likely after the holidays.
Can you test them with say, a 1965 Fender Bassman or late 60's Twin, with a Stratocaster? I would like to hear that. Thanks.
Good suggestion, closes I have to that now is a '65 Deluxe reissue or a '65 Twin reissue.
And to think this guy may have been a BOSS Hair Band guitarist in the 80's!
Its very possible, actually highly likely! Don't forget to subscribe and you will get 100 bonus points!
@itsdizzylizzy Thanks so much. I personally like the Eminence copies the best in this test. The clean test I like the JBLs and the eminence copies.
@Bojan Vasilic, thanks for watching.
Anyone know what finish is on that blue Jackson? It's pretty cool!
It's from the 80s
sillennium yeah I figured it was from the 80s. Looks great!
@Ben Groenen, thanks for the comments. Feel free to stop by anytime and subscribe!
@LedWhisky69 It is hard to say why, but it could even be something as simple as using a SM-57 to mic the amps. The mic could color the sound a little, but I personally really liked the Vintage 30s and Vintage 30 copies.
I like the JBLs, but for some reason the Vintage 30 clones and real deals sounded the best to me.
YOU NEED to use the EVM12L and the 417 with a post-preamp EQ just like on Mesa Mark and Caliber series or their racked preamps then you have a speeaker to rule them all, it becomes your precious! Actually, unlike the others, you don't have the 1.4kHz frequency drop producing the rhythm guitar usual scooping.
The EVM12L sounds better in the TL806 ported cabs, and, although I never could try the 417, the EVM12L is a ferrite version of this alnico speaker, they even share the same cone (EV purchased the Altec factory which was making the 417).
When you use the EV with a good EQ, preferably a programmable analogic one, the more bands, the better (e.g. Digitech MEQ28), the rather flat (compared to other guitar speakers) frequency response allows you to use your EQ to cut frequencies (sound sculpting) then simply "copy" the frequency response of other speakers!!!
This is why the EVM12L is used in all styles, from jazz (Larry Carlton) to death-metal (Cannibal Corpse, Napalm Death), from classic rock (think about Knopfler in the early/mid 80's) to fusion (Holdsworth), to Blues (Gary Moore, SRV) to funk (Earth Wind & Fire) or Heavy (Zakk Wylde) : the 12L can adapt to anything, since there is no freq drop, you can get your Santana-like punchy singing mids...
The only thing you can't do is emulating alnico speakers like the D120/K120 etc, but the 417, as well as a the EVM12 SRO(alnico) or its Weber replica, the recently discontinued Michigan 12 Alnico may do this...
Would love to try some of those speakers
V 30 rocks, D120F are very nice. Those testing dudes should perform at Opera Springer show
Nice
a good way to show the difference of angle can be done with someone moving the mic slowly while another plays a repetetive riff with cam corder showing the movements. i set a flat EQ on desk and find the best sound with moving the mic around before i consider adding an EQ adjustment on desk. My boogie sounds best listening to at an angle. If the speaker faces straight at my head, it sounds thin trebly crap. 25 - 35 deg sounds massive with a full spectrum of frequencies and a sweet mid tone
Ok
Is this Eminence V30 copy actually the V128?
Possibly this was a long time ago
It's obvious that different speakers will sound differently. But we can't make definitive judgement as to which is "better" when mic placement is a big contributing factor.
All we can do is get a general sense of which one we may prefer.
Joe the player preferred the EVM in the little "oval" cab, but to me it sounded muffled.
Ok
Joe, you can effin shred dude! It's like my dad became a guitar God.
Nice
@Blue9z, all but the EVM speaker.
Rockin' grampa's!
Giddy up
Switching speakers require make adjustments in the EQ of the amps for the best response of each speaker
Ok
I agree with msowl, it's not a true comparison unless it's in the same cab with the exact same mic placement. This should be viewed as a general comparison but it does a good job giving an idea of what these speakers sound like so thumbs up there.
On the other hand, the accuracy of the comparison is going to be greatly flawed not only by the variance in the speaker cabs but the room placement, variations in the back of the cab (such as open or back) and the height of the cab/speaker such as that Bandmaster/Altec cab sitting on another cab which will again affect the sound quite a bit.
Slight changes in mic placement can yield wildly different results in tone as well so sliding the stand from one cab to another is an incredibly random way to do the comparison. Try sitting in a control room and listening to an amp with someone moving the mic around very slowly in front of the cab/speaker -- you'll hear huge differences in the slightest moves.
The other item of note is the impedance of the cabs... Are all the cabs of the same impedance AND when the Marshall is switched down to 25 watts what does that do to the impedance output of the amp?
On many amps, when using a 1/2 power switch, you'd use a lower impedance output to compensate. So for a 100 watt amp into 8 ohms, if you change it to a 50 watt output you'd use the 4 ohm tap. I don't know what it is on this amp but that could have a dramatic effect as well.
Of course the other thing to bear in mind here is that a speaker that sounds good with one amp might sound miserable with another. You need to match your speaker to your particular amp. Thanks for the vid!
RadicalTone you are correct this wasn't that scientific, but please make sure to check out my recent speaker shootouts, I think you will find them like you are asking for. Don't forget to subscribe.
sillennium Hi Sillennium, not to disparage this at all! I was surprised at how much you could tell from this demo. But folks just need to be aware that it's not a very clinical comparison and that there are other factors to be considered when making decisions about what they're hearing. Best wishes! ML
Thanks for watching!
@sillennium The 57 is pretty transparent, my best guess would be the cabs they're in. Not a true comparison unless they're in same cab, same mic placement etc...
Ok
The JBL has a pretty good tone. It sounds louder than the others and bassier, but if you listen to it on laptop speakers you can't hear the quality of the bass response. The lead tone has good bite.
Next time arrange the speakers and place a mic about 10 feet away, and make sure each speaker is equally away the same distance. This will give us a different perspective removing mic placement as the effect of placement will be much less farther away. Then we can compare tone in the room sound.
Nice
Tthe Greenbacks were to my liking, but the Eminence V30 copies sounded very close to the Greenbacks. They both had very similar "breakup" and similar smooth distortion. The V30's were also very nice, but I'll bet they would sound better if the mix was actually place closer to the cone as it was with the Greenbacks. Look and you'll see that the mic was up close for the Greenbacks, and that will give it a fuller and rounder sound, due to proximity effect of the mic being closer to the cone.
Awesome
Vintage 30- Holy Shit. THAT IS uhhhh ohhhhh
Nice
Thanks for Heaven ! Great Video :-)
Np
Thanks so much for watching, feel free to subscribe!
Try a JBL E120-8, the sound is even larger than the EV12 L. The EV 12 L makes any amp sound bigger, the E120-8 even larger than that. The accuracy, efficiency, and db levels are amazing. The most powerful JBL speaker ever made for that size.
Good suggestion
Anytime.
oops , a bit shocked to hear the Celestion 25 followed by the 75 speakers before I realized, you changed the microphone position drastically ... :D
frankpaush Thanks for stopping by, check out my other speaker shootouts. These were done for fun, and not too scientific. The others are more what you are looking for.
"The Grumps" is that short for grumpy old men? LOL The EVM 12L sounded very good to MY ears. But of course being there live make a big difference. The cab has a lot to do with the speaker tone just as the speakers do. I've got a Randal 4x12 with Greenbacks, a Marshall 4x12 with those 75 watt ones like this demo and a oversized Egnater 2x12 with what Egnater calls Elite 80's with are just like Lead 80 speakers. The Egnater really has the best all around sound with all my amp heads. Certain heads just don't go with certain speakers but that doesn't mean somebody else might have the Head & cab setup that works great with those speakers. So many variables. Good demo.
hawg427 thanks for watching!
It's not about what's the best speaker. It's about the mixture of your personal sound. A humbucker-equipped guitar will have a less piercing, more "filling" tone than a single coil-equipped guitar. You can either alter or emphasise this tone by adding or removing more low/mid/high in your amp. I personally love a V30 in a Marshall JCM800 with a Les Paul that has .022 and .047 caps in it. Why? So a dark tone(with tone rolled off to 2) won't be like you're playing under water ;) Great video btw!!!
Thx
I will see what I can find out for you
The Greenbacks had the better mic placement, closer to the driver, slightly off center. The Celestion GT12 had the worst placement, pulled farther back, but WAY off center. It was closer to the cabinets edge then the cones center. The GT12 is actually a very good sounding speaker when you listen to it on Celestions website. On that site you get to hear the exact same guitar riff played through different speakers. The GT12 has a great sound as does the Greenback. more...
Ok
As always the vintage 30's sound the best to me
Ok
mic placement is Everything -- you could make the same speaker sound totally different moving the mic 1 inch
Ok
Great choice of speakers, superb playing, but something isn't just right ... I suspect the TSL is, let's say, not my cup of tea. Some speakers like the T75 sound muffled, the JBL like through a trash can. There is the other video with the harmonics, and the overall tone is so much better IMHO. All taste of course & thanks nevertheless for sharing!
Thx for watching
jbls and altecs are the most musical for me
Thx
I like the Celestian Greenback sound. They sound perfect. I didn't like the EVM sound at all. It's interesting that Joe liked the EVMs the best.
Great!
It sounded to me as if someone put a blanket over the G12T-75's cab.
They could have
@@sillennium What is that supposed to mean? The cabinet is in the video and I don't see a blanket. And why did it take 10 years for you to respond? I'm not trying to be an asshole, It's just your comment seems strange to me.
Next time first a shootout clothing test and then a speaker test shootout!
Umm is that supposed to be funny?
sillennium LOL
Technically the altec is probably the most hifi of the lot. Jbl is 2nd. I think the jbl gets highest ratings because it’s slight more emphasis in the highs but the altec actually extends a little better.. I own both and think they both are classic
Thx for watching
Celestion V30's are nice but a bit harsh. The Altecs sound muffled. SO my vote goes to the Eminence.
Ok
EMINENCE FOR SURE
thanks for watching.
Joe could play anything and make it sound great. JBL was my choice.
Thx for stopping by
Thanks anyway!
Ok
The Altec speaker would have an alnico magnet if it's a 417.
Ok
The Celestion 25 watt Greenbacks is awesome for 90' Rock lead...like that... Eminence Vintage 30 Copy sound's is more soft than the original celestion... anyway rock on dude
Rock on
every music store should have the little speaker switching box or no deal, so you dont go buying every single speaker until you find your tone.
Yeah they should
Great idea! Execution, not so good. MIC PLACEMENT! I'll say it again, MIC PLACEMENT! Take notice that mic placement was "in the vicinity", but accurate.
Does it matter? Of course it does, very much so. In the studio when we're trying to get a certain recorded sound mic placement is a very important variable. Even a slight axis adjustment can distinctly alter the tone we're capturing.
more....
Ok
The celestion v30 and eminence v30 sound totally different. different speakers require different mic positions to get the best sound. I had an ac30 sounding best centred, where as a boogie with a black shadow, one inch from edge of cone. something over looked is how the guitarist hears the speaker. listen to the speaker at an angle like the sound guy places the mic, and you may like the tone better than too much or too little angle.
Rock on
I like the JBL best, then Greenbacks, then EV and lastly then 70 watt celestions. I didn't like the Vin. 30 or the Altec at all. The JBL would be my favorite if I didn't own a 1952 Magnavox speaker that is my favorite. -PK
Ok
Celestion 25's won by far. The v30 copies sound better than the real deals do as well
Nice
Celestion 25 sounded best for me
Ok
I am not sure will need to check for you.
JBL's win for sure! Dad jeans!!!! (belt not included)
Even that made me laugh. :) Thanks for watching.
Like the greenies best
Ok
maybe the eminence cobie are governors with75watt!!
Ok
The TSL gets as decent as it can be with the EV, almost good with the 75s and the V30s. The Greenback is no speaker for this amp, very harsh sounding, lacking definition and focus - just noizzze...
Nice
the eminence ones sounded the better to me
Thx
JBL FTW ;)
Yes
eminence
You are a big fan of Eminence eh.. :)
I believe its the Governor
Ok
Maybe someday you can get a proper high resolution recording mic.... And learn how to place it where you can get more than a 3" area of the driver sound.... like NOT pretending the cab is getting a proctology exam. Get back a few feet.. For cripe sakes, you don't listen to the speaker an inch or less in front of it. Why mic it there..
Check my other demos you will be happier
@msowl61 Thanks for watching, I hope to see you around on some my other videos.
I don't want to sound like a fuddy duddy but no one appreciates a clean tone..And never does a test for CLEAN TONE..JBL D series has a great clean tone.With good fret conditioning & tightly fitted guitar ( on assembly ) you can get some great clean slurp. Natural sustain ( or Natural Compression as some call it )..Anyone that is familiar with beautiful mesmerizing violin solos can fall in love with making a guitar do it...Lightning speed and fuzz tone is not much for peace and floating away on a cloud...Hendrix on REDHOUSE & WATCHTOWER could sound clean rich & fat..If you were to blend a JBL d130F with a couple greenbacks...It should make for a nice rich clean tone.
That Eminence JOSH SMITH SIGNATURE turned out to be a very interesting speaker...I can't get the George Harrison treble top string like the hook in " It won't be long ", but a non latching foot pedal to hit the string through a pre adjusted 2nd amp will do it. Since we do not have a foot switch remote pickup selector for that " one note "..The separate amp deal works alot better without having my pickup switch involved in such a compromise..
Check out my other speaker shootouts you will be happy to see both clean and dirty
🤘
NICE GUITAR MAN!!! just your pants are a little too high
Lol