Love the hot takes! I disagree with every single point you made about single wall tents (I own both styles), but I fully appreciate and applaud your motivation to go and make these arguments! I do agree that folks are making too many gear review videos. Let’s see more hiking, more trail reviews and trail prep advice. Have a great day!
LOL! Thanks Ken, I knew hikers could agree to disagree on gear and still be friends! Though, at least 3 of those points are really facts, right? DCF costs way more (or has the cost come way down, I haven't looked in a couple of years), and a single wall tent can flap loudly in the wind where mesh, without a rainfly on will not. You can't see through a single wall - so moon/star gazing is out of the question. The rest of the info has really come from watching videos of other hikers running into issues. The condensation concern came straight from Dixie, Homemade Wanderlust. Video of the puddles in her Duplex and wet sleeping bag. Here in Arizona, it would never really be an issue. Anyway, thanks for the comment!
You're completely right! Point number one is the only one that I have ever needed. I don't want to get wet. As a young man I always tried to camp with some super cheap Walmart tent. Always wondered why it was wet inside in the morning. I would go on rants about what's the point of the tent if it's wet inside of. It was always because they were single wall. Took me years to figure out
Great points. Regarding why so many people don't share your "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality, in a word: insecurity. But to expand, social media has rewired us in ways that have turned our "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality into a half-conscious fixation. In a world where we're now so unavoidably aware of how many people will always be better painters than us, we seek comfort in at least buying the best brushes and making sure everyone knows about them. But also, I think a lot of it is that people are desperate to feel alive. I know that sounds strange in the context of why people are always looking for a better tent or something, but I think what drives a lot of people here, both to get outside and to obsess over gear, is that in our modern society of digital overload and excessive connection, getting outdoors becomes not just a nice break, but an existential refuge from a world that they realize is making them less human and less alive. And it's good that they're driven to do something about that feeling, but the circumstances make people very emotionally invested in "getting it right": They look at themselves on social media and at the office and sitting in front of Netflix and think "that's not me," and the version of themselves that spends time out in nature becomes the version they want to look at and say "THAT is me," and they want to make that version the best it can be. If you realize your life is making you feel less alive and you decide to do something about it, it's easy to feel like this pleasurable recreation activity has major stakes attached, and to get anxious over the details of how it's done. Sorry if this sounds too heavy and overdramatic, but they want to be the best at the thing that keeps their darkness away. A bit self-defeating, but I think it's a significant part of the psychology of why we're like this, and it's a reflection of how troubled we are as a society these days.
Thank you for making all the hike-along videos! These are so helpful when I'm trying to plan a trip. And they are so entertaining. It sucks that most of the hiking youtube stuff is all about gear. Who cares. I often carry 3 - 4 liters of water because the places I go have little water. Saving a few ounces just doesn't matter when I have 9-12 pounds of food & water. Lots of great points in this video.
Totally. I'm just trying to show what works for me. I'm more interested in getting out there and hiking than I am in worrying too much about saving ounces. Glad the videos are helpful!
I have a double wall, copper spur, I had the tiger wall, but that was semi free standing and I switched up, getting frustrated with the need to stake even that. Why do I have and carry this, even on thru hikes like the JMT? I’m lazy when I get to camp. If I don’t have to stake it or mess with a fly I don’t. I also don’t use the fly ever unless there is weather. I can also squeeze into tiny spots. I know there is a weight penalty, but it’s only a bit over a pound when you consider the amount of stakes one needs for a single wall and I’ve adjusted other gear to compensate.
I really love my double wall xmid tents. I have a 1 and 2 person. I like that they are long enough for my 6’4” self and how small they pack down. I have wanted to get the stargazer kit so I can set it up without the rain fly if I want. It’s hard finding tents long enough for me, so it’s been great.
My buddy Troy is 6’4 too, I’ll have to tell him about the xmids. His single wall was whipping in the wind one night when I was cowboy camping next to him and it kept us both up all night. 😳
I feel like this too, I just feel safer with something that doesn't need as much space, can hold condensation away from me and is free standing or semi-free standing. I don't know what camp sites I might find, and here in Sweden condensation can be a real issue I want to avoid. Just got my very first 1p tent and I'm very happy with it, it took me months to find the thing *I* wanted and wanted to spend money on, and not what it seems like all the "professionals" use. I have been watching gear review videos, and that way figured out what I don't want! And in the end what I do value and want. I prefer watching hiking videos, especially longer videos or longer hikes. Syntax77 makes really nice videos, just not nearly often enough. And I enjoyed Homemade Wanderlust's thru-hiking videos from the PCT and CDT, the AT was too over crowded and in my opinion looks pretty boring. I have a few others I watch as well.
#8, the drab ass color. All makes perfect sense to me. But I do love my Bibler(now Black Diamond) when I'm above treeline and in weather, and it is quite quiet in the wind, even at 50mph.
I totally agree with you on the footprint issue, mostly because it's rarely, if ever, addressed in reviews. And by footprint, I mean the total area required for a tent, including all the guylines. With a trekking pole tent, those things are going all over the place, and take up a huge amount of room beyond the "actual" fabric footprint. I do have both types of tents, and when I sit there trying to decide which to take for a trip, I usually end up with my 1P double wall tent. However, I LOVE my Dyneema tarp, and hope to get better at using that, including getting better at determining when conditions will be okay for it (for me). I've been out too many times (in the summer) and realized, you know what, I didn't really need a tent of any kind!
Great point! When I don’t need a tent, I like to cowboy camp, but only when I know there’s no chance for rain and no bugs! Tough to know when there will or won’t be mosquitoes and biting flies, gnats or whatever creates that high pitch buzzing sound that keeps aiming for your ear. 🦟🦟🦟
Nice video. Have tested a lot of gear, and I love my Big Agnes Tiger Wall. But I also love my Xmid Pro 2+ tent both have pros and cons. Find what works for you
I've fully converted to single-wall tents now. I haven't found any downsides and don't see myself going back. I have a silnylon Tarptent Double Rainbow and it's the best tent I've ever used. I don't have any complaints with the inevitable condensation on certain nights. I've had worse condensation in double wall tents. The Double Rainbow might be worth a look if you ever do consider it. Small footprint for the interior size, uses an arch pole rather than trekking poles, vestibules on each side roll up fully for views on nice nights. Ticks a few of your boxes. Thanks for the vid :)
Good video in general. One thing though, if you have a trecking pole tent and you break a trekking pole you can just use a stick. It's usually not a problem.
Ahhh, I figured that's what you'd have to do. I lost my tent stake bag once, but was easily able to make some new stakes out of sticks. I was thinking about some of the places I've hiked here in Arizona where the stick supply is not exactly plentiful. You're definitely right, for most people probably not a problem at all.
@ oh yeah. I’ve broken a couple tent poles, both times the tent pole repair sleeve and duct tape solved it. Would be much harder, or impossible to fix with just a stick.
I've just bought the real best solution for almost all of your "reasons not to buy a DCF single wall tent" (except stargazing and cost maybe): Buy a Tarptent Rainbow Li like I did a few weeks ago, with a liner to clip in and to separate you from condensation, which btw usually runs down - if it occurs at all - without dripping onto your feet because of the steep construction of the head- and foot-end ... and so almost all those reasons you mentioned are solved by this tent-miracle ... Love my Tarptent Rainbow Li so far after testing it a couple of nights here in the middle of Germany 🥰! Have a merry christmas everybody 🎄!
You're the second person to mention this one! When the zippers fail on my current tent (they eventually will), I'll check out the Tarptent for sure. Looks like a great choice.
Love this... He is correct, the UA-cam content providers in the backpacking genre saturated the video searches w hear reviews. You are right about Dixie, Dan, and many others... Do nothing but upsell gear... They don't hike much...
To be fair, its hard to make a living on YT with hiking videos alone, if not impossible. Have a friend with a popular local channel, not a full time youtuber, but he still has to spend all week editing, planning, packing, unpacking, cleaning gear, prepping and traveling in order to put out an actual hiking video every week. That seems impossible to sustain. That's why we see so many gear videos, or top 5 tricks to avoid this, top 3 places to go do that. It's understandable, but I definitely prefer hiking videos...I like to see the trail and watch and learn how hikers handle the challenges along the way. Thanks for the comment!
I am not into gear videos either. One exception are tents. I want to buy an affordable free standing tent that I can use for thru hiking AND bikepacking without spending a ton of money. The BA Copper Spur looks good. After a long day's hiking or cycling, I want to throw tent on the ground add the poles and I am done. Not into these trekking pole tents as I cant use this tent for bikepacking. What is a good selection? You look as though you own the BA Copper Spur 1P/2P?
I find videos from Darwin or Steven very informative and Darwin has a lot of hiking videos that he has made over the years. But I agree, there are too many gear videos from algorithm recommended videos. A single wall tent makes sense for thru-hikers, who want to walk a lot of kms every day. Other than that it's not necessary but to each their own.
Good point! Truth be told, I primarily watch videos if I’m planning to hike the trail, so I know what I’m getting into. I like it when people show water sources, camp spots, trail conditions. Don’t really care what they are wearing, or what pack they have…
I agree with the condensation issue but I have never had to the level you describe. If I was younger and did not have to carry all of my dog’s gear and food I still be using my Tiger Wall. I paid a lot for my Duplex but to be honest for the amount of use it’s pretty cheap. I live on Northeast and whenever I tried to camp with my rain fly off my sleep system got wet from the air moisture. I think most people talk about gear because it sells and allows some to actually make a living hiking or talking about hiking and gear. I am pretty dialed in so I don’t really care. I am more into staying fit and on the trial. I will be driving out to Colorado the end of August to hike the CT with my hound mix Maggie. I can’t wait.
Oh man, that's going to be awesome. If you're lucky enough to avoid those afternoon thunderstorms. I'd love to have a dog who can handle hiking like that.
Stopped watching all of them, the problem is their livelihood is highly dependent on pumping out videos, gear videos get a lot of clicks from newbies and people that have no self control and always thinking there’s better out there, embarrassing 1st world issues, the other issue is constant sponsors, for god sake I purchased UA-cam premium just to stop the bombardment of ads now I have to hold the bloody remote in my hand to fast forward the sponsor section.
Good point. I just hate gear videos is all, they do way more gear videos than hiking videos. Of course, I’m subbed to all of them. I know people love gear talk… just ain’t for me.
@@MoonJuiceHikes I respect that. Gear videos saved my from wasting lots of money when I first got into backpacking by helping me make more informed gear decisions. With the knowledge and resources I have now, gear videos are pretty irrelevant to me. Still very grateful for them for educating me about the gear industry
@@j.a.1785saying all of the hiking gurus then calling them out to say they make 15 gear videos to 1 hiking video can rub one the wrong way was all I was saying. And I never agreed or disagreed with him. I understand his perspective entirely
Yep! Me too. I train with a 40lb pack on basically every day during the week, so there's no need to worry about an extra lb or two on a longer hike. I'm ready. Jerry? I might have made it all sound a little less terrifying than it actually is...but in the end, I think he really is thanking me for it. ha ha!
The non-gear review, gear review video. Like a breath of fresh air :)
Love the hot takes! I disagree with every single point you made about single wall tents (I own both styles), but I fully appreciate and applaud your motivation to go and make these arguments! I do agree that folks are making too many gear review videos. Let’s see more hiking, more trail reviews and trail prep advice. Have a great day!
LOL! Thanks Ken, I knew hikers could agree to disagree on gear and still be friends! Though, at least 3 of those points are really facts, right? DCF costs way more (or has the cost come way down, I haven't looked in a couple of years), and a single wall tent can flap loudly in the wind where mesh, without a rainfly on will not. You can't see through a single wall - so moon/star gazing is out of the question. The rest of the info has really come from watching videos of other hikers running into issues. The condensation concern came straight from Dixie, Homemade Wanderlust. Video of the puddles in her Duplex and wet sleeping bag. Here in Arizona, it would never really be an issue. Anyway, thanks for the comment!
Oh nice to hear im not the only one who likes to open my tent in the morning make 2-4 cups of coffee and just enjoy the wilderness morning!
That’s what I’m talking about! Hot dinners and hot coffee… the best.
You're completely right! Point number one is the only one that I have ever needed. I don't want to get wet. As a young man I always tried to camp with some super cheap Walmart tent. Always wondered why it was wet inside in the morning. I would go on rants about what's the point of the tent if it's wet inside of. It was always because they were single wall. Took me years to figure out
I agree about gear vids 100%. Earned a sub and a like, great video.
Knew I wasn’t alone!
You talked me out of it, made me realize AGAIN why I chose Big Agnes over Duplex in 2019.
Great points.
Regarding why so many people don't share your "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality, in a word: insecurity.
But to expand, social media has rewired us in ways that have turned our "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality into a half-conscious fixation. In a world where we're now so unavoidably aware of how many people will always be better painters than us, we seek comfort in at least buying the best brushes and making sure everyone knows about them.
But also, I think a lot of it is that people are desperate to feel alive. I know that sounds strange in the context of why people are always looking for a better tent or something, but I think what drives a lot of people here, both to get outside and to obsess over gear, is that in our modern society of digital overload and excessive connection, getting outdoors becomes not just a nice break, but an existential refuge from a world that they realize is making them less human and less alive.
And it's good that they're driven to do something about that feeling, but the circumstances make people very emotionally invested in "getting it right": They look at themselves on social media and at the office and sitting in front of Netflix and think "that's not me," and the version of themselves that spends time out in nature becomes the version they want to look at and say "THAT is me," and they want to make that version the best it can be. If you realize your life is making you feel less alive and you decide to do something about it, it's easy to feel like this pleasurable recreation activity has major stakes attached, and to get anxious over the details of how it's done. Sorry if this sounds too heavy and overdramatic, but they want to be the best at the thing that keeps their darkness away. A bit self-defeating, but I think it's a significant part of the psychology of why we're like this, and it's a reflection of how troubled we are as a society these days.
Man, you hit the nail right on the head. Thanks for the input.
Thank you for making all the hike-along videos! These are so helpful when I'm trying to plan a trip. And they are so entertaining.
It sucks that most of the hiking youtube stuff is all about gear. Who cares. I often carry 3 - 4 liters of water because the places I go have little water. Saving a few ounces just doesn't matter when I have 9-12 pounds of food & water. Lots of great points in this video.
Totally. I'm just trying to show what works for me. I'm more interested in getting out there and hiking than I am in worrying too much about saving ounces. Glad the videos are helpful!
I have a double wall, copper spur, I had the tiger wall, but that was semi free standing and I switched up, getting frustrated with the need to stake even that. Why do I have and carry this, even on thru hikes like the JMT? I’m lazy when I get to camp. If I don’t have to stake it or mess with a fly I don’t. I also don’t use the fly ever unless there is weather. I can also squeeze into tiny spots. I know there is a weight penalty, but it’s only a bit over a pound when you consider the amount of stakes one needs for a single wall and I’ve adjusted other gear to compensate.
I really love my double wall xmid tents. I have a 1 and 2 person. I like that they are long enough for my 6’4” self and how small they pack down. I have wanted to get the stargazer kit so I can set it up without the rain fly if I want. It’s hard finding tents long enough for me, so it’s been great.
My buddy Troy is 6’4 too, I’ll have to tell him about the xmids. His single wall was whipping in the wind one night when I was cowboy camping next to him and it kept us both up all night. 😳
I feel like this too, I just feel safer with something that doesn't need as much space, can hold condensation away from me and is free standing or semi-free standing.
I don't know what camp sites I might find, and here in Sweden condensation can be a real issue I want to avoid.
Just got my very first 1p tent and I'm very happy with it, it took me months to find the thing *I* wanted and wanted to spend money on, and not what it seems like all the "professionals" use.
I have been watching gear review videos, and that way figured out what I don't want! And in the end what I do value and want.
I prefer watching hiking videos, especially longer videos or longer hikes. Syntax77 makes really nice videos, just not nearly often enough. And I enjoyed Homemade Wanderlust's thru-hiking videos from the PCT and CDT, the AT was too over crowded and in my opinion looks pretty boring. I have a few others I watch as well.
Sound logic. I also like pole tents because the reliability
#8, the drab ass color. All makes perfect sense to me. But I do love my Bibler(now Black Diamond) when I'm above treeline and in weather, and it is quite quiet in the wind, even at 50mph.
Oh yeah, that’s a sturdy tent!
I totally agree with you on the footprint issue, mostly because it's rarely, if ever, addressed in reviews. And by footprint, I mean the total area required for a tent, including all the guylines. With a trekking pole tent, those things are going all over the place, and take up a huge amount of room beyond the "actual" fabric footprint. I do have both types of tents, and when I sit there trying to decide which to take for a trip, I usually end up with my 1P double wall tent.
However, I LOVE my Dyneema tarp, and hope to get better at using that, including getting better at determining when conditions will be okay for it (for me). I've been out too many times (in the summer) and realized, you know what, I didn't really need a tent of any kind!
Great point! When I don’t need a tent, I like to cowboy camp, but only when I know there’s no chance for rain and no bugs! Tough to know when there will or won’t be mosquitoes and biting flies, gnats or whatever creates that high pitch buzzing sound that keeps aiming for your ear. 🦟🦟🦟
Nice video. Have tested a lot of gear, and I love my Big Agnes Tiger Wall. But I also love my Xmid Pro 2+ tent both have pros and cons. Find what works for you
I agree although I just purchased a single wall tent. Did a gear video of it as well😂. Subbed!
Yeah man, obviously very popular - especially if you’re aiming for 10lb base weight. 👍 Hope it works out well for you.
I've fully converted to single-wall tents now. I haven't found any downsides and don't see myself going back. I have a silnylon Tarptent Double Rainbow and it's the best tent I've ever used. I don't have any complaints with the inevitable condensation on certain nights. I've had worse condensation in double wall tents. The Double Rainbow might be worth a look if you ever do consider it. Small footprint for the interior size, uses an arch pole rather than trekking poles, vestibules on each side roll up fully for views on nice nights. Ticks a few of your boxes. Thanks for the vid :)
That looks pretty interesting! Not a bad price either. Thanks for the tip.
Good video in general. One thing though, if you have a trecking pole tent and you break a trekking pole you can just use a stick. It's usually not a problem.
Ahhh, I figured that's what you'd have to do. I lost my tent stake bag once, but was easily able to make some new stakes out of sticks. I was thinking about some of the places I've hiked here in Arizona where the stick supply is not exactly plentiful. You're definitely right, for most people probably not a problem at all.
True,it's a bigger problem when a tent pole breaks on a freestanding tent.
@ I guess on a very windy night without rain you could take off the rainfly to prevent the poles from breaking on a freestanding tent.
@ oh yeah. I’ve broken a couple tent poles, both times the tent pole repair sleeve and duct tape solved it. Would be much harder, or impossible to fix with just a stick.
Great gear video. Make more!
I've just bought the real best solution for almost all of your "reasons not to buy a DCF single wall tent" (except stargazing and cost maybe): Buy a Tarptent Rainbow Li like I did a few weeks ago, with a liner to clip in and to separate you from condensation, which btw usually runs down - if it occurs at all - without dripping onto your feet because of the steep construction of the head- and foot-end ... and so almost all those reasons you mentioned are solved by this tent-miracle ... Love my Tarptent Rainbow Li so far after testing it a couple of nights here in the middle of Germany 🥰! Have a merry christmas everybody 🎄!
You're the second person to mention this one! When the zippers fail on my current tent (they eventually will), I'll check out the Tarptent for sure. Looks like a great choice.
Agree 100%. Single wall tents are just not worth the extra pound or so that they save
Love this... He is correct, the UA-cam content providers in the backpacking genre saturated the video searches w hear reviews. You are right about Dixie, Dan, and many others... Do nothing but upsell gear... They don't hike much...
To be fair, its hard to make a living on YT with hiking videos alone, if not impossible. Have a friend with a popular local channel, not a full time youtuber, but he still has to spend all week editing, planning, packing, unpacking, cleaning gear, prepping and traveling in order to put out an actual hiking video every week. That seems impossible to sustain. That's why we see so many gear videos, or top 5 tricks to avoid this, top 3 places to go do that. It's understandable, but I definitely prefer hiking videos...I like to see the trail and watch and learn how hikers handle the challenges along the way. Thanks for the comment!
I am not into gear videos either. One exception are tents. I want to buy an affordable free standing tent that I can use for thru hiking AND bikepacking without spending a ton of money. The BA Copper Spur looks good. After a long day's hiking or cycling, I want to throw tent on the ground add the poles and I am done. Not into these trekking pole tents as I cant use this tent for bikepacking. What is a good selection? You look as though you own the BA Copper Spur 1P/2P?
wait but if you sleep without the rainfly couldn't you just sleep out?
Bugs? And in the desert: scorpions. If you take a black light, you see them everywhere at night.
Yeah man, its bugs. Getting that mosquito buzzing sound around my ears drives me crazy. Though I do like a cowboy camp whenever possible!
I find videos from Darwin or Steven very informative and Darwin has a lot of hiking videos that he has made over the years. But I agree, there are too many gear videos from algorithm recommended videos.
A single wall tent makes sense for thru-hikers, who want to walk a lot of kms every day. Other than that it's not necessary but to each their own.
I dunno. Not like camping focused videos are very interesting either.
Good point! Truth be told, I primarily watch videos if I’m planning to hike the trail, so I know what I’m getting into. I like it when people show water sources, camp spots, trail conditions. Don’t really care what they are wearing, or what pack they have…
@@MoonJuiceHikes 👍
Amen bro🤣👍
As a matter of fact gear videos get the most views. Content creators react to that, of course.
"Jimmy Rig"........"MacGyver" and "vestibule".......three words you never thought you would say in the same video.....LOL
LOL! Ain't that the truth
I agree with the condensation issue but I have never had to the level you describe. If I was younger and did not have to carry all of my dog’s gear and food I still be using my Tiger Wall. I paid a lot for my Duplex but to be honest for the amount of use it’s pretty cheap. I live on Northeast and whenever I tried to camp with my rain fly off my sleep system got wet from the air moisture. I think most people talk about gear because it sells and allows some to actually make a living hiking or talking about hiking and gear. I am pretty dialed in so I don’t really care. I am more into staying fit and on the trial. I will be driving out to Colorado the end of August to hike the CT with my hound mix Maggie. I can’t wait.
Oh man, that's going to be awesome. If you're lucky enough to avoid those afternoon thunderstorms. I'd love to have a dog who can handle hiking like that.
double wall, single wall?
Ill take the Wonder wall
LOL...me too!!
I also despise gear videos. Dyneema....yuck!
Stopped watching all of them, the problem is their livelihood is highly dependent on pumping out videos, gear videos get a lot of clicks from newbies and people that have no self control and always thinking there’s better out there, embarrassing 1st world issues, the other issue is constant sponsors, for god sake I purchased UA-cam premium just to stop the bombardment of ads now I have to hold the bloody remote in my hand to fast forward the sponsor section.
Pretty disrespectful shade thrown at amazing experienced hikers who have successful UA-cam channels..
Good point. I just hate gear videos is all, they do way more gear videos than hiking videos. Of course, I’m subbed to all of them. I know people
love gear talk… just ain’t for me.
@@MoonJuiceHikes I respect that. Gear videos saved my from wasting lots of money when I first got into backpacking by helping me make more informed gear decisions. With the knowledge and resources I have now, gear videos are pretty irrelevant to me. Still very grateful for them for educating me about the gear industry
They'll be ok.
It's not shade at all, he's stating he doesn't care for gear videos. He's entitled to his opinion and I 100% agree with him.
@@j.a.1785saying all of the hiking gurus then calling them out to say they make 15 gear videos to 1 hiking video can rub one the wrong way was all I was saying. And I never agreed or disagreed with him. I understand his perspective entirely
I totally agree with you. I rather carry the extra weight……and I do.
Hey, what did you do to @jerryarizona? Absolutely funny!!!
Yep! Me too. I train with a 40lb pack on basically every day during the week, so there's no need to worry about an extra lb or two on a longer hike. I'm ready. Jerry? I might have made it all sound a little less terrifying than it actually is...but in the end, I think he really is thanking me for it. ha ha!