About Clerics, Clerics were never mentioned in the previous games, but in the show, it’s true that Quintus said that he got his orders from the “highest Clerics in the Commonwealth”. His name in the show is “Elder Cleric Quintus”, so the Elder role was not eliminated with the show and replaced by the Cleric. Rather, it looks like the terms, in this case, can be used interchangeably, as the highest Cleric would be the Elder Cleric. In Fallout 4, Arthur Maxson ruled the Brotherhood by himself. He did not answer to a quorum or council of Clerics or Elders. However, in Fallout 1, John Maxson, the grandson of founder Roger Maxson, was only one of many Elders who ran Lost Hills (he was the High Elder though). So by this standard, chapters should be run by councils of Elders, not one solitary High Elder. It’s possible, then, that after the events of Fallout 4, with the Brotherhood reigning supreme (or at least at peace with the Minutemen), Arthur Maxson re-established the council of Elders, as was tradition with the west coast chapters. And in fact, we have to believe that he did. Before we can conclude that there is a continuity error (or a retcon), we need to exhaust all other possibilities. We can explain away Quintus referring to the “highest Clerics in the Commonwealth” by: A) Assuming that by “Cleric” he meant “Elder Cleric”, and that “Elder” and “Cleric” are interchangeable. B) That Arthur Maxson re-convened the council of Elders, establishing himself as High Elder, as his forefathers were before him And so since this explanation resolves the issue, it must then be the truth. Of course, any other explanations that successfully resolve the “Cleric” issue could also be the truth, and we’d need clarification from the showrunners to know which one is accurate. The existence of an Elder Cleric does infer that there is a non-Elder Cleric, or a “lesser Cleric”. This would be new to the franchise. It’s possible, but highly unlikely, that “lesser Clerics” had always existed in the Brotherhood; we just never saw them in any of the games. As for the Brotherhood existing before the war, I’m technically wrong in this video. After massacring the scientists at Mariposa, Maxson led his soldiers on a months’-long “exodus” to Lost Hills where he settled and there, in November, he officially founded the Brotherhood of Steel. But what exactly were they between October 20th and November 2077? They had seceded by October 20th, making them traitors, but then the nation fell-and you can’t be traitors to a nation that doesn’t exist. So while the Brotherhood did not form in name until November of 2077, I believe they formed in spirit on October 20th 2077. But again, I am technically wrong on this date. Arthur Maxson actually didn’t leave with Lyons in search of the midwestern chapter. He was dispatched years later, after Lyons had already settled the Citadel in the Capital Wastelands. I combined two expeditions there, my bad. So there were a total of five expeditions from the west to the east that we know of: 1) Paladin Rahmani and Knight Shin, arriving in West Virginia around 25 years after the bombs dropped, in search of Taggardy’s Thunder, 2) The midwestern expedition to Chicago, 3) Lyon’s expedition to find the missing Chicago expedition, 4) Arthur Maxson’s expedition to meet Lyons at the Citadel, and 5) Elder Elijah’s expedition to the Hoover Dam. It’s true that the Brotherhood could have vertibirds for a variety of reasons, not just the one I listed in the video. In addition to having vertibirds because they got the plans during Fallout 2, they could have been gifted vertibirds from Lyons after Broken Steel, or from Maxson after Fallout 4. We don’t really know.
I agree with your thoughts on the Clerics! Although I passionately dislike the “This prominent thing of importance has been completely unseen until now” I agree it’s possible. However, I prefer to speculate that the introduction of the Clerics as a Rank as something that was formed after the events of fallout 4. In fact i think it started in the Commonwealth, before culturally spreading to all other Chapters of the Brotherhood of Steel (note, Quintus calls his army’s a “Legion” not a chapter…showing his social structure for his desired BoS may be very different..) Especially considering that Elder Cleric Quintus begrudgingly takes orders from the Highest Clerics of the Commonwealth, implying it’s likely that the BoS seat of power is now there! So this naturally means that Elder Cleric Quintus’s power is not absolute, being a “Elder cleric” does not mean being on the same level as being a General Elder, and presumably there is also a position of “High Cleric” who act as a Council of Advisors to High Elder Maxson! I’m so fascinated to learn more! This must be what fallout 3 fans felt like when a BoS presence was confirmed in Fallout 4! How has their history progressed??
The BoS organizational structure has been infuriatingly contradicting since Fallout 1. For example, in F1 scribes were also knights and only the fighters were paladins, lancers are new to F4, and I still do not understand how Paladins work in the F4 organization (they are not simply officers or else there would be no Knight-Captain rank that is higher than a Paladin, nor are they simply an elite formation among the knights since they clearly have a say in policy). As such an out-of-universe retcon and/or an convoluted in-universe explaination how the organization changed yet again to include clerics is very much in line with what we've seen before about the BoS. That being said, the concept of a 'cleric' is very suitable for the BoS. The organization is very much ideological driven (and zealous ideology is really no different from religious faith...) so of course they would have Political Officers, Commisars or something like that to ensure ideological purity among its members and persecute doubt, critisisms or lack of faith. And these Clerics would not necessarily form the leadership caste of Elders themselves; Elders are more like the executive branch of the organization and concerned with with daily leadership and operations of the BoS, and thus care most about 'practical' issues and less about matters of faith. Thus most Elders would not be Clerics. However, to ensure ideological purity among the core leadership it is very natural that even the Elders must pay respect to Clerics and defer to them in certain matters regarding ideology, and to ensure the clerics have influence on daily policy some clerics would be Elders too and this part of BoS leadership. With this in mind, the fact that we see only 'Elder Clerics' in the show seems to hint that the ideological/religious Zealots have taken control of the BoS. That does not bode well for both the BoS and the Wasteland...
Great dissection Oxhorn, I agree with much of what is said, especially about the Clerics. While we know that the Knights safeguard and produce technology, and we know that Scribes study and preserve it. Clerics are ba meant be the Brotherhood's cultural branch of leadership, instilling the Brotherhood's more "quasi-religious" teachings in its members and making sure it is upheld. I am thinking that perhaps it was something that was brought into the early Brotherhood by Rodger Maxson and then maybe discontinued at some point only to be as you mentioned brought back by Arthur Maxson. As you said it's hard until we get firm explanation, or perhaps it was something that the West Coast predominantly did as they kind of had the Cyber monk vibe going on before. But perhaps with him becoming High Elder as you mentioned perhaps the East has also adopted this tradition making it more prevalent. And as you said I do believe that the Elder still exists as a rank, I just believe that as you said Elder clerics are the highest ranking clerics because we do see an example of a "lesser cleric" in the show, and by lesser cleric I mean someone who's not an elder cleric obviously. And that would be Cleric Felix, he was responsible for teaching initiates and hopefuls about the Brotherhood's rules and the search for technology. And I really did think about that I discussed it with someone the other day. About how there is a Council of Elders in Lost Hills, like 5 including High Elder Maxson III of I remember right. If you listen to Mason's speech he does mention that the Brotherhood doesn't plan on hoarding technology forever or being isolationist. I believe you had the quote in this video.
I love the idea of the Brotherhood adopting more and more pre-war traditions as they discover and learn more. Them learning Latin could've easily been explained as something they recently discovered and implemented
I heard an interesting "theory" or a bit of fan fiction, Wouldn't it be crazy if The Legion Ending was the Chronological Ending to New Vegas and the Brotherhood was actually infiltrated by them. Which would sorta fit in nicely with curtain slides at the end of The Show, the ones of The Strip being ravaged. Mind you those "slides" would still work for any ending to FNV, as anyone that has beat the game, with the different factions would/could say. Even "Independent". Because War.. something, something.. Nuclear Winter.. something, something. 🤙
the Brotherhood has used latin phrases for as long as the franchise to my knowledge, I don't about Fallout 1 & 2, but Taggerdy's chapter knew what Ad Victorium meant.
i feel like its important to remember that the BoS isn't a unified organization and that it has separate chapters with separate traditions, just because we see one group doing one thing, doesn't mean ALL of them do that thing.
An excellent point! Veronica describes the BoS in New Vegas as “quasi-religious” and devoted to literal application of the Codex, but that’s her experience of the Mojave chapter under McNamara. Every regional Brotherhood chapter has a different focus and perspective on their founding ideals.
The chapters don't matter that much, they all have the same beliefs, what matters is the Elder at any given time. Lyons was overall a good elder who wanted to help people so did, than Arthur Maxson took them back to tech hoarders who kill anyone in their way again.
Actually the Show implies they have all changed to some extent. In Fallout 4, we never saw these “Cleric” Techpriests dudes. Yet the Show says they are now in the Commonwealth, in positions of such power that they are mentioned over Elder Maxson…
The Maxson family are akin to royalty to the BoS so switching HQ to the east coast wouldn't be surprising, im sure it would ruffle a few feathers at the same time
An organization that models itself along Arthurian legend? Yes, they will eventually pick up the concept of 'the one true king' regardless what more down-to-earth elders consider sensible doctrine.
Switching HQs was problematic as Lyons and his East Cost branch were effectively exiled for abandoning the Codex and putting efforts into helping and integrating settlers. Like Lyons did with the Lone Wanderer. Even with little Maxson traveling with them, the primary West Coast branch didn’t agree with Lyons’ decisions and kicked them to the curb. That’s why the Outcasts exist in Fallout 3, they’re the part of Lyons’ group that wanted to stick to the Codex and ignore or harass settlers.
@@SomaCruz500 as of Fallout 4 Lyons is dead and the brotherhood outcasts have been reintegrated into the east coast BoS and most of Lyon's progressive policy's have been reversed back to the more traditional ways under the leadership of Elder Arthur Maxon
The very reason the West Coast Elders sent Maxson out East when he was a child was to distance him from their power base, and to avoid him using his name to challenge their authority as he grew older... Ironic how it was literally the move that gave him the very opportunity needed to build a sufficient power base to not only challenge them, but seemingly take full command of both the East Coast and West Coast...
@@thestanleys3657 yes however, some of the ideals of Lyons was upheld solely because Arthur Maxson loved Sarah Lyons, who had the same ideals, such as a willingness to let outsiders join them.
I personally like the theory that the chapter featured in the TV show are recruited heavily from the remnants of Caesar's Legion (most likely after Caesar died from the brain cancer featured in NV, likely resulting in the Legion descending into civil war)... It would explain why they are so much more zealous, along with the use of Latin names, having brought those attitudes and traditions with them, but it's some of the remarks made by the Elder that is the biggest hint... He makes the statement... "We once ruled these lands"... but the West Coast Brotherhood have never ruled over any territory, and were always the underdogs, where as Caesar's Legion did rule significant territory... He also remarks... "Power is taken, not given..." in response to Maximus killing Titus, which is a very Caesar's Legion view on "promotion"...
while that would explain some things, iirc Caesar legion was not pro technology and modern world things, so i doubt they would join the brotherhood, let alone become elder (or elder clerk)
@@Ricardo_Rick they were not anti-technology, they just didn't hoard it in the way the Brotherhood do... They used advanced weapons in NV, but reserved them for their most experienced and elite soldiers, IIRC... If the Legion had collapsed, a bunch of indoctrinated fighters looking for a new leader could easily turn to a faction like the Brotherhood, if Maxson's Brotherhood could prove their strength... Given they must have established contact with the West Coast Brotherhood, and then demonstrate it's power -- the Prydwyn and a fleet of Vertibirds would have shown that -- it's reasonable that the Legion survivors would sign on...
@@Ricardo_Rick sure, but I was only focusing on what we saw of the chapter featured in the show, and a possible reason for their especially zealous, and pseudo-religious deviation from standard Brotherhood practices, along with their assignment of Latin names, which was something the Roman Legions did for recruits from non-Roman backgrounds...
@@ImRuined666 well, yeah, perhaps, then again i'm not sure if that elder zealot came from the airship or if he was already in camp tho, that could change things
I think Oxhorn need to make a side quest brainstorm video. Who knows? If Nolan watches the video and read the comment section he can prepare some bullshit for Cooper.
Fun fact. They filmed the brotherhood base scenes in my hometown of Wendover at the Wendover Airbase. Which is where they did several nuclear bomb testings during WW2 and is where the Enola Gay ran test flights and left off of to go drop the bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. As a huge fan of the video games I’m glad this little nod go recognized in my home town.
Super mutants in Fallout 4’s Commonwealth would oftentimes scream at the player saying, “You humans made us. Now suffer for your arrogance!” Another physical manifestation of the human hubris.
@@luckyflynt1646 West-tek developed them before the war. The information was actually leaked to the public and even the Chinese heard about FEV. It was actually one of their first targets. Ballistic missiles from either the Chinese mainland or a offshore submarine struck the West Tek facility in Southern California. They were able to score direct hits on the facility multiple times. When this happened the explosions caused the vats of FEV ruptured and this released tons of it into the atmosphere, which led to countless genetic mutations that we see throughout the franchise. Another facility in Huntersville, West Virginia also created a strain of FEV, they used it to infect the local townsfolk of Huntersville using their water supply. And this occurred before the Great War even happened. Now in my opinion floaters should have been made by the Master. But we do see them in 76 as well so it is possible that they were also created by West-tek.
From the show that one mention of Eden sounded to me like the Botherhoods version of Paradise or Utopia. And it makes sense; the Brotherhood sees itself as the ones who will start a new and better world. Note I say 'start', not 'rule'. Their paradise is a world where all mistakes of the past have been corrected and humanity can start anew, the Botherhood no longer required having completed its mission and can fade away.
@@jimcalhoun361 Oh, there a more problems than just that. But those can conveniently be ignored by someone who tries to achieve paradise. As is usual for beliefs that are more based on faith or ideology than on reason or realism.
Eden is the future that has been predicted by the Brotherhood's founder, Rodger Maxson. "Our Scribes will hold onto them, preserve them, perhaps even progress beyond them. And the Knights will protect them. Like a hard shell around a precious seed. One day, when the time is right, that seed will grow. And a new civilization will be born. This... This is why we were born, don't you see it? Helping your fellow man is a good goal, a soldier's goal. But this... We will be the catalyst that changes the world." ~ High Elder Roger Maxson
My favorite theory about the Brotherhood in the Show is that after Caesar died, some of the Legion joined with the Western Brotherhood and perhaps if “Elder Cleric Quintus” is actually a former Legate. By working together It’s how they got so strong on West Coast again. It’s how they have a Base on the Utah Salt Flats (Legion Territory) and when you think about it, the NCR really isn’t really isn’t the “Antithesis” of the Legion. In fact they have many similarities, such as Imperialism. The Brotherhood is. Their exact opposite. As the BoS they remove advanced technology from everyone else, they are forced to adapt or die. The Red and Gold BoS Banners, the Latin names…the Cultish Clerics. Quintus even calls his forces a “Legion” not a Chapter. When Elder Cleric Quintus says “we used to rule the Wasteland” he is talking about Caesar’s Legion. The “New Brotherhood” he talks about making? It’s the fulfillment of Caesar’s dreams. *A synthesized Legion.* The 88th Tribe. With Cold Fusion now in their possession, California shall be their Rome.
That makes total sense. Quintus even tells Maximus they “once ruled the wasteland”. I don’t recall any Brotherhood chapters proclaiming themselves to be an empire or nation state (NCR & the Legion), but in the first episode when Quintus sends the knights in search of the cold fusion device he says it has potential to “harm our NATION”. Add this to your theory and Quintus could be a former legate seeing this Brotherhood and a synthesis of the old one and Caesar’s Legion.
@@allistertenpenny6871 The lack of technology is probably cause the war with the NCR probably drained them. You don't see any T-51's and energy weapons cause they're probably either all rusted away and broken after centuries of use or now locked away in Western Brotherhood vaults to only be used in case of emergencies.
Side notes...In the earliest Welsh mythology (the origins of King Arthur,) one character is Macsen Wledig, which is probably where Roger Maxson's name came from. Prydwen was the name of the ship that brought King Arthur to the Otherworld.
There was a line in the NCR and BOS cooperation ending in New Vegas that said there were other chapters that still fought the NCR. So there are more than two chapters on the west coast.
So the Brotherhood destroys the Enclave, then they destroy the Institute…and now Big MT? If anyone is bringing us back to the Dark Age, it’s the Brotherhood.
If the airship is actually the Prydwen, I hope we get to see Maxson in the next season and maybe even a hint of the Sole Survivor saving Boston from the Institute.
That would be a cool idea but who would play a live action Arthur maxson? I can imagine he would like to meet Maximus and he tells him to keep an eye on the elder from the first season!
But what’s weird is that they never refer to Elder Maxson in the Commonwealth…they mention the “Highest Clerics in the Commonwealth” not Maxson….so either Maxson left the Commonwealth but didn’t use the Predwen…or he died and the BoS is now run by this priestly order of Clerics..
@@jakespacepiratee3740 I’m pretty sure Maxson is one of those highest order of Elders. Since they made Elders plural it could be referring to Macon, Elder Lyons’s successor, and maybe even the Sole Survivor getting promoted to Elder since there were cut content of the SS being promoted to Elder after destroying the Institute.
I think you are correct. As it stands at the conclusion of Season 1, the BoS airship is the Prydwin. The elder-guy mentions the clerics of the Commonwealth, and Knight Titus has a Boston accent. Not to mention, the surprise and awe of the recruits at the arrival of the airship.
I’m gonna be disappointed if the Brotherhood doesn’t make some awesome tech from Cold Fusion, like Infinite-Charge Cold Fusion Cores for Power Armor, or Infinite-Ammo Blue Laser Rifles, or Cold Fusion powered Robots, a City built on Los Angeles…they are probably going to go for the smallest impact possible, because the Nolan Brothers don’t like making CGI-Heavy Cool Sci-Fi Tech stuff 😢 if it turns out that way, it will remind me all too much of the implications of Fallout 3 Broken Steel - in that Epilogue the BoS acts so excited to begin salvaging and reverse-Engineering Enclave tech far past just the Virtibirds. You can see a Scribe tinkering on Enclave Power Armor, another Scribe made a Scrambler that can turn Enclave Mind-Controlled Deathclaws over to their side, they started to use more Plasma Rifles….all of that is gone by Fallout 4. 😭
Tbf BOS does use Vertbirds and the prydwen is an example of their victory however I think the reason they don't have plasma is balancing and symbolism blue laser for institute and Pre war red lasers for the Brotherhood
23:27 Maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't part of the lore in FO4 that Arthur Maxon reunited the eastern chapter with the west after the deaths of Elder and Sarah Lyons? If so, it would make sense that they could/would send the Prydwen to where it was needed, and have orders come from Maxon's chapter.
Yup, the red themes in Arthur's people's armor came from the 'Outcasts' red stripes in Fallout 3. Lyons got cut off for being a decent human being, that wanted to work more with local communities and protect them, instead of raiding them for food and tech anything more complex than a toaster.
@@ToniJ-ol8bgI actually wish the Outcasts rejoined the Brotherhood but kept their unique style. It looked so cool and it kept a reminder of their history, rather than erasing it.
Seems strange that the elder would oppose Arthur Maxon, he says the brotherhood has gotten weak but if we know anything about Maxon he'd surely improve the west coast since his order is more akin to the original values of the brotherhood
@@mizv4043 I think canonically he wouldn't spare him, he's the same guy that chose to completely destroy the institute without preserving any of their superior technology
It's entirely possible that the religious elements of the Brotherhood we see in the show are just that, the half remembered traditions of Maxson's old unit chaplain. The Brotherhood are basically 1950s US Army crossed with medieval crusader order. I like the idea that they have continued and adapted what they know of religion from a US military chaplaincy corps, which would include a number of old world religious traditions including Catholicism.
The guys in Robes aren’t Scribes. I thought that at first that they were bringing back the older look, but the guys in the Robes are consistently referred to as *“Clerics”* not Scribes. The Leader of the Brotherhood in the Show? He is named *“Elder Cleric Quintus”* he himself in the first episode says that their mission comes from the “Highest Clerics in the Commonwealth” in fact i don’t think “Scribe” is ever mentioned in the Show. And why would the BoS make a Scribe an Elder? Consistently, the Robed members of the BoS are called “Clerics” not Scribes. All the Fallout Wikis refers to them as such, not Scribes. I was excited to see how Oxhorn thought the Clerics came about as a Rank. Most likely formed after Fallout 4, as I cordially dislike the explanation of “Oh, the Clerics always existed you just never saw them until now.”
I hope they explain the shifting around in the ranks and the new ranks. The squires tended to be children in the game, then when they started more training theyd become aspirants, then initiate, then knight, paladin, sentinel and elder with branches going into scribe.
What I love about the brotherhood, is it isn't the conventional "good guys" faction like the minutemen, their goal is greater than just being good and nice, they need to protect pre-war technology because they saw how evil people use it, it ultimately protects the whole wellbeing of the world instead of just doing good things on a smaller scale, this is why they are the nemesis of the institute, also, people complain about them because of how militarized they seem to be, THEY ARE needed like any other rising country needs army that focuses on defense, and they are effective at that, particularly hunting super mutants and other creatures that threatens humanity, THEY DON'T NEED to be charitable like the minutemen, people don't seem to understand this.
I think people misunderstand Quintus as well. People are addicted to trying to see the bad within the Brotherhood and ignore the good. And he insinuated multiple things but I don't know why you only spoke about one. Because the dialogue he gives depicts that he is talking about the West Coast Brotherhood "a time where we used to rule the Wasteland", well they already rule the Wasteland on the East Coast more or less. So that doesn't really hold true for that side of the Brotherhood. I truly do believe he is talking about rebirthing the Western Brotherhood. He might try to take over but he has no name right to it. People are too loyal to Maxson. We know that there was issues with cults on the West Coast.
Caswennan was a red herring unfortunately. I really wish that they had built a second airship. Even if it was the second airship it still indicates that the Brotherhood was victorious in Fallout 4, or at minimal the Minutemen with them kept alive. Say it was a new ship that showed up completely. Number one, it would be extremely hard to recreate a model without having the other one to scale up to. Now I'm sure that they have blueprints so that's not really as much of a factor. Number two a new airship showing up doesn't confirm that the Prydwen was destroyed. The dialogue given by Elder cleric Quintus "these orders come from the highest clerics in the Commonwealth". This would insinuate that the Brotherhood is still active and even has some kind of command structure operating out of the Commonwealth.. which wouldn't be possible without BoS ending, or the Minutemen ending where they are kind of allied with them. But yeah, that kind of solidifies things in my opinion. Regardless of what the ship is they have a command structure in the Commonwealth...
8:37 Pause here. I don't know if I'm the only one to notice, but the T-60 Knight on the right has a helmet resembling one more from the games. The other knight, one on the left has one looking like one from the TV show. And also the knight on the rights helmet is brighter than the armor which confuses me.
There were some opinions,that tha BoS we see, it's the BoS , with The Legion implemented. So,the change from the original military,to the semi-religious one.
I can actually see this being a thing for the west coast chapter. The BoS gaining converts who bring in their own practices that are modified to their new belief system.
Fellow Paladins, Knights, Scribes, Squires and Initiates! Remember, regardless of propaganda never stray from the path of steel. And for those of you who oppose us and our goals... There will come a day where you'll wish you had done a little evil... For a greater good. Human kind must march on... To glorious salvation... No matter what!!! Ad Victoriam ~Sentinel Edwards - East Coast Brotherhood of Steel
i think the reason they never really say elder is because Maxson sort of centralized the brotherhood as much as he could, and that means he's the only elder. BUT because of the nature of how far the other chapters are, that there is still a recognized local authority, thus requiring a new rank. "Clerics" would be experienced, learned individuals (likely, former elders). In this way, there is unity, and administration within the BOS
26:41 I saw that scene and i was all, "well, they could try, but this is Arthur Maxon we're talking about" i highly doubt Arthur would ever let this slide, he'd probably realize what was happening and then proceed to take matters into his own hands and he'd start by discharging that western elder.
In here you mention that Maxon never studied Christian mythology. He may have. As a former soldier I can tell you that to become an officer in the US Military you need to have a college degree. He could have studied any number of different things during his pursuit of a degree.
Ox, I think you need to revisit the terminals on the Prydwen. Proctor Quinlan's terminal in particular states that the West Coast Elders appointed Maxon to the position of Elder of the East Coast chapter following his reunification with the Outcasts. Because Arthur is a Maxon, he outranks the West Coast Elders, especially after conquering the Institute
Something that's been forgotten is that the prewar USA created commonwealth out of groups of states. Its possible that the guy in charge of the base we see in the show was referring to the commonwealth they were in
Favorite line was Elder Maxson noting that this was in fact a new dark age. Love that as it not only harkens the Brotherhood back to the monastic orders of that era whose job it was to record and collect knowledge, but it also validates their ranking system instead of it just “sounding cool”
I have never seen the BOS display a murderous attitude toward Ghouls in any walkthrough. Given their past with FEV and how most Super Mutants turn out, it's unsurprising they don't give Marcus and Fawkes the benefit of the doubt. Honestly, the only BOS character I can actually call evil is Father Elijah, who's supposed to be a villain.
The only problem I had with the show's depiction of the Brotherhood was that all the initiates were uneducated idiots and bullies. Love them or hate them in all the Fallout games I played in the Brotherhood had always highly educated their initiates.
Titus does say what kind of remnants. It’s literally the same type of fetch quest they send you on in fallout 4. They’re sending him on mission to retrieve remnants of past technology and it usually ends up being a toaster. Stop looking for a deeper meaning to what he said there is none.
@@bagelbite99 The T-60 was also discovered on the east coast and adopted there, the west coast chapter never had it. In the show one even asks what model is that? They even refer to orders from clerics back in the commonwealth, it is the Prydwen and those knights landing were from Maxson's chapter remember one guy asking "what are they doing here?".
I like how NONE of the BoS fans know how to write "Ad Victoriam". I've seen "Ad Victoram", "Ad Victorium", even "Ad Victoria" just this week. You guys are like Caesar's LARPers in Fallout: New Vegas. Life imitates art.
@@wetrix2119 ehh auto correct and honestly when I wrote it I was too lazy to actually correct it 🤷♂️ sue me. And cry some more about things you can't possibly hope to understand.
I've always just kinda assumed the minutemen ending for FO4 was Canon. It's the most open for possibilities and kinda the "good ending" which is the one that Bethesda and most games tend to look at as canon
Don't forget the "infamous" line spoken in anger by various Brotherhood Members in Fallout 4, during and after curtain combat sequences. "GODLESS FREAKS!" It's definitely meant to be a derogatory statement toward non humans. Edit Why wouldn't or couldn't "Eden" mean anything other than what most would think it refers to? A place of beauty and/or tranquility. Maximus may not fully comprehend it's meaning ("..or whatever".), but it doesn't mean he hasn't overheard someone talking about or even "preaching" about it, during his tenure. This would also fit in with people's assumptions that this "new" depiction of the Brotherhood is more on the religious side. Furthermore, Bethesda (Todd) was ok with it and therefore it's now canon. Perhaps they've always wanted this to be part of the lore, but couldn't put it into the recent games, for various (obvious) reasons.
Maybe it's just me, But i can't help shake the feeling that the Show's western brotherhood has some Ceasar's Legion influence to it. The brutality of the knights towards squires, especially how Titus threatens maximus. The Coloring of the BoS sigil being a red background with Orange secondary color which i can't remember seeing them ever use before. Red with white, sure, blues and yellows, absolutely... Red and orange though? that's Legion colors. Might just be looking into things too much though
Explains a lot. All males in the compound. Do we see any females in uniform? Seeing the colors made me think of the Outcasts, before I thought of the BoS in general. Latinate chanting and twisting of medieval religious practices. It would even make sense for "Neo-Roma" to become "Psuedo-Christianity". For a while now, I've been wondering if this is a fake BoS. Like the "Elder Cleric" is actually running a scam and "The Prydwen" is actually a knock-off, somehow. Perhaps another scheme of Management?
I agree, The brutality and as Mariolis mentioned, there is alot more latin aswell. I wouldnt be surprised if something happened in the Mojave with the Legion, and the brotherhood always being more Military, and CL, being also more military that the BoS took in lots of legion folks and that caused some CL Brutality and other Influence to seep into the BoS. But well certainly find out more in S2 when we see more of the Mojave and whats become of the big 3 factions out that way.
the brother hood under maxons rule feels like an actual family/brotherhood, the brother hood in the show feels like an unified army where everyone dislikes eachother.
I love where the BoS is at in the show. I think the show runners brought the BoS far closer to what they originally were meant to be, than any of the games since 2.
I would also surmise that because of the time jump and, assuming, the BOS ending of Fallout 4, it’s likely that Arthur became the High Elder. He could’ve been majority voted to that position or he could’ve taken it. Either way, I could see the Fallout show Elder being bitter, especially in the former and wanting to break off from Maxson.
I played the BoS in my first few playthroughs, then realized they were nothing more than powerful raiders. From the show, I see BoS more as being like the Holy Roman Empire of Charlemagne, etc.
LMFAO they're definitely not raiders. They usually only confiscate technology from those who are deemed dangerous. The reason why they don't go and master every single ghoul and or intelligent super mutants is because they're just not that type of organization. They fight with real threats for the most part, only clashing with average people over technology when it is absolutely crucial
@@Ricardo_Rick lol people only choose to see the view the negative they are either ignorant of or willingly choose to ignore the positive. Requisition of food and other materials in serious events such as war or when it is deemed absolutely necessary is something done by modern militaries the world round, even the Canadian army did it to French, Dutch and German citizens. These armies are not raider groups and neither is the BoS, they are always willing to negotiate first, when it comes to requisitioning crops and stuff people have to remember that it is up to the player's choice whether they attack the settlement or not, it is easy to find a diplomatic solution. Which the Brotherhood mostly always tries to work things out first, unless it's there actual enemy or it's deemed absolutely crucial. Raiders brutalize innocent settlers for the fun of it, they commit constant acts of sadistic and unprovoked violence. The Brotherhood doesn't mutilate the bodies of civilians... As a matter of fact they mainly just target synths, super mutants and feral ghouls, which a lot of the Commonwealth population agrees with, on average besides the railroad people hate synths. Even the Minuteman's senior members like Preston Garvey have made comments about super mutants like "when it comes to the super mutants it's them or us" and even comments on how the Minuteman had been struggling against them for years, and that he was happy to have the Brotherhoods help subduing and clearing them out. Either way I think generic statements like the one that you made just aren't that accurate, the organization is a lot more complicated then that.
@@canadianbacon9819 the brotherhood started the war, they quite literally invaded the commonwealth with an army, made the settlers give up food (the MC can negotiate, but it's clear the brotherhood doesn't care if the mc does it with violence) and wants to rule the land while destroying anyone who gets in their way (you can argue that the institute was the enemy, but the railroad never did a thing to the brotherhood, nor would they do since after destroying the institute they would become without purpose, but they destroyed them either way) the brotherhood are not psychos like the raiders, but honestly they are basically cleaner raiders with a sense of morality
Hello, Oxhorn. I still consider "Red Snappah" as your finest video. Regarding "Brotherhoon of Steel use of Latin in Fallout" = While Latin is considered the official language of Vatican City, it is heavily used in English vocabulary in theology, the sciences, medicine, and law. It would be vital to identify pre-war technology.
One of my favourite mysteries with the Brotherhood is where is the Chicago expedition? We know Fallout Tactics is essentially non-canon now but the expedition being sent there is still canon as per lore from Fallout 3. I can see a future game definitely being set there, Brotherhood and Enclave the like are know to be in the area at some point.
My wife and I are longtime fallout fans and even named my car Beth as she is the best car I have ever had and the same can be said of the developers of this franchise. That said you are hands down the best influencer my beloved Fallout franchise has ever had. I love the format and I appreciate your work from the bottom of my heart.
A very well thought out evaluation of all things BoS. I enjoy your thorough history and factoids. Very well done. Please continue!! God bless you for sharing!
I feel like they abandoned the area because it was likely irradiated at that time. I think she was an NCR ranger they sent to recon the area, after all that time had passed, to see if it was still able to be powered and therefor worth their time.
@@kittensoundwave3480 I'll disagree on the ranger bit she's a prewar mystery, who use NCR motifs as a rallying cry to get power, enough to be afraid of. Cause even as a guy who likes the brotherhood. If you look at the equipment they had it wasn't professional. Even if shady sands did get nuked the NCR should have enough equipment to standardize the gear, and in the opening you would not have the chaos of the vault raid. Even if you want to think they wanted to hide their NCR. It's just window dressing for her goal of cold fusion! And she used people.
@@pacchar1423yeah no, those guys had a somewhat direct connection to the NCR. The official NCR would do something if people using their symbols held out in a place they retreated from. They wouldn’t want people using their symbols if they were doing stuff they didn’t approve of. If they did approve of them, they are a part of the NCR.
@@jakespacepiratee3740 no they wouldn't they just not care, it's normal to ignore an inconvenience. and she was powerful but no more than the bos in new vegas and inconvenience at best. who gathered rabble if they had any connection to the wider NCR shady sands would have been under their control. they abandoned the area and the people to their fate. nation do it all the time. wave a flag no one cares. it was local and she was a pre war/post-war resident. for all the ncr would know she's a mad woman on the hill. just like the form ranger said.
We also don't know why the Brotherhood was in the ruins. They most likely as you said send a team to figure out what happened. But I also do believe that a crime against humanity that large would be taken seriously by them. They probably were also looking for survivors, or they wouldn't have been willing to take them in. As it is not their inside the borders of their objective (if they truly are there just to scavenge as you say)
11:14 I don’t think Maximus here is saying that the Great War happened when he was a kid, but that the only bombs that dropped that mattered to him, or rather the one that ended his world and past life, dropped when he was a kid, if anything this was for dramatic effect to add to the reveal that shady sands got nuked and he was there.
Maxson: “YOU ARE A SYNTH! You’re not the real Danse, you’re an abomination! You are the institutes play thing!” Danse: “you are a sad, overzealous, crazy man and you have my pity. farewell” 😂. Also Awesome video Ox! 😎👍🏼
Yes but Danse also believes that he is a complete security risk and that he should be destroyed. In order for him to save the court above you have to convince him not to take his own life.
@3:30 - yeah, but right there, in the clip you attach - the writers have a teacher telling cadets who have been there 10 years what their basic mission is, and then our intrepid hero, again after 10 years of study, doesn't know the difference between a rotor and a circuit board. I can think of a hundred ways to convey a sense for the brotherhoods basic mission, having members reminded as though they are too stupid to remember why they are there also treats the audience like they are stupid, we can't just observe how the brotherhood does their business and understand it. Or at least have maximus explain to lucy later, since an explanation to someone who hasn't been sitting there ten years actually makes sense. In a bigger picture, the brotherhood has been turned into the Legion, ordered by fear rather than mission. It's basically nihilist - people can't form a community on a principle and have mutual respect, each one needs to tear the other down in order to feel better about themselves. There is no such thing as dedication to mission, each knight will waste brotherhood resources whenever they "wanna kill something" , even as it seems their kind of power armor is unable to handle the common preditors of the environment they drop into (gently by cable instead of a power jump, so much for keeping the obvious high points of the game. Oh, but add hand jets while the iconic stance is holding a big gun because ??). I'll continue watching this video, but how can you show a clip of the brotherhood being treated like drooling morons and not comment?
I love these guides to the lore of all the Fallout factions! Here's hoping for a lore guide on The Enclave soon. You have earned a new subscriber. Love your videos.
I'm surprised Oxhorn doesn't realize those aren't actually the only two possible canonical endings from fallout 4. There's a number of reasons that isn't necessarily true. For example the prydwen we saw may not have been the same one we got in fallout 4. In fact there is a very real possibility that it could have been destroyed and the one we saw was a newly rebuilt prydwen.
They did not send Arthur with Elder Lyons. Arthur was not born. Sarah Lyons was born in DC she is years older than Arthur. Arthur was sent to Dc before the west coast cut the east coast off.
For anyone interested, I think it's pretty clear that Brotherhood of Steel is based at least partially on Canticle of Leibowitz. They are essentially a militarized version of the priesthood, and the book itself is pretty clearly in line with the phrase "war never changes". Just didn't hear that, and want to give more context as to why there is a technological priesthood in an apocalypse.
The show has a potential to be so sick, the universe and lore of fallout is already so convoluted and extensive.. the whole first season serves as not even a set up but an intro. One monster one faction barely any conflict. What we know for sure is that its going to be a war over the cold fusion. Gunna be a great show in the coming years
Actually, don’t assume the brotherhood wasn’t responsible for shady sands. Hank was a bit too comfortable and familiar with power armor. I bet he worked with them to destroy shady sands. And Maximus is going to find out that the brotherhood was involved, and is actually the enemy, and he’s an inside man now. trying to take them down
The BoS wouldn't launch nukes at the NCR. In FNV the only way to get max affinity with them is to disable the nukes in Lonesome Road - despite the NCR being one of the available targets.
@@dutchpatriot17 nobody said it was a nuke. They bombed it. That’s why when Hank saw the bombs in vault 33 he said “I think I know who you are…” it was probably the same bombs.
I know some people dont like how BoS has changed over the two centuries, but if anything it gives it all more believability in my mind. All generations and iterations think they're doing the best and right thing at the time, and they're all ... "complicated".. when it comes down to whether or not they're currently succeeding.
I still want fallout 5 be a BoS civil war between Midwest BoS and East coast BoS. Where mid west have super mutant and Ghoul members and basically is less fashy.
I have to say, the way the Brotherhood of Steel was depicted in the show screamed Warhammer Space Marines to me. Perhaps some may appreciate this depiction, but to me personally it feels off when compared to the games.
It’s definitely based on catholic traditions, they’re literally on a quest to fine the garden of Eden and the President is also Eden… Also why are people upset Bioshock has Christian references everywhere
I find it interesting that one of the fallout shows main points of interest is on cold fusion or limitless power. There are instances of this technology being used in falliut new vegas in the microfusion breeder technology. Recharge rifles and pistols are essentially using this tech, but it hasnt been scaled up to be useful for house snd home use. I know its a gimic item meant to give you a gun with no ammo needs but it introduces this concept that fallout has unlocked a form of this power producing frame already.
My head cannon is that the Elder in the show we see might be a Enclave Remnant. He would be the right age to have been a young member of either east or west coast Enclave and probably would been easy to join up with the Westcoast BOS in its weakened state and raise up the ranks. That plus each Chapter being separate means that particular group might have more Enclave ideals as adverse to the Chapters seen in games.
The thing about the Brotherhood is that it went wrong almost immediately. Roger Maxson rebelled against the US Government for ethical reasons. He was horrified not by the technology being used but by the use it was put to. He established the Brotherhood of Steel in order to create a command structure that was completely separate from the US Military. He chose Knights, Paladins and Scribes in order to create a structure that was somewhat similar to a military command, but which had an in-built expectation of honor and defense. The purpose of the Brotherhood was to collect and preserve technology FOR the people that would rebuild society. But very shortly after the formation of the Brotherhood, the Elders were created to "assist" Roger Maxson in leading the group. And almost immediately they began to add a religious element to the Brotherhood. And they perverted the purpose of the Brotherhood until it became their purpose to preserve technology FROM the people that would rebuild society. Elders like Lyons were much closer to the original goals of Roger Maxson than most of the Brotherhood. Arthur Maxson ended up going against the teachings of Elder Lyons. He followed the path of the Elders who twisted Roger's plans. And, it appears that the Commonwealth Brotherhood not only survived Fallout 4 it became the central authority of the Brotherhood of Steel. The mention of Clerics seems to indicate that he went even further into the quasi-religious nature of the Brotherhood. And the Elder shown in the show seems to be almost fanatical.
i am disapointed by the knight Titus. No Fallout game had ever had such a whinning knight, or am i mistaken? I got the impression, the tv chapter lacks dicipline. What is your impression?
@veranicus6060 true! But I guess we will find out what's going on in the brotherhood in the next season! Seems kinda like it may be rocky within the ranks, considering the elder said he wanted to start a new brotherhood
@veranicus6060 The TV chapter did seem to be dropping the ball with its initiates. They were uncontrolled and ignorant of their own history. Titus I can forgive as an isolated case of an older Knight that has grown jaded over time. The brotherhood are still human after all. Maximus still remains the biggest disappointment; ignorance I can forgive, but the way he is rewarded without merit annoys me to no end.
As I would Interpret it, the Minute Men ending was the true ending, but the Vault 111 survivor, who remembers the prewar era, is helping Elder Maxon make the brotherhood better, more benevolent. And the Show's elder who's taking orders doesn't like the change and wants to keep the power for himself. That's why the Prydwen is on the west coast. Elder Maxon and the Survivor are there now to change the west coast and the current leader isn't having it.
At the beginning of the video you describe how the brotherhood started and it is interesting to think that's the sole survivor and The ghoul would have been highly likely to join this army, both power armor trained American vets with new families, if the brotherhood had more time before the bombs dropped they could have reached a lot of people
About Clerics, Clerics were never mentioned in the previous games, but in the show, it’s true that Quintus said that he got his orders from the “highest Clerics in the Commonwealth”. His name in the show is “Elder Cleric Quintus”, so the Elder role was not eliminated with the show and replaced by the Cleric. Rather, it looks like the terms, in this case, can be used interchangeably, as the highest Cleric would be the Elder Cleric.
In Fallout 4, Arthur Maxson ruled the Brotherhood by himself. He did not answer to a quorum or council of Clerics or Elders. However, in Fallout 1, John Maxson, the grandson of founder Roger Maxson, was only one of many Elders who ran Lost Hills (he was the High Elder though). So by this standard, chapters should be run by councils of Elders, not one solitary High Elder.
It’s possible, then, that after the events of Fallout 4, with the Brotherhood reigning supreme (or at least at peace with the Minutemen), Arthur Maxson re-established the council of Elders, as was tradition with the west coast chapters.
And in fact, we have to believe that he did. Before we can conclude that there is a continuity error (or a retcon), we need to exhaust all other possibilities. We can explain away Quintus referring to the “highest Clerics in the Commonwealth” by:
A) Assuming that by “Cleric” he meant “Elder Cleric”, and that “Elder” and “Cleric” are interchangeable.
B) That Arthur Maxson re-convened the council of Elders, establishing himself as High Elder, as his forefathers were before him
And so since this explanation resolves the issue, it must then be the truth. Of course, any other explanations that successfully resolve the “Cleric” issue could also be the truth, and we’d need clarification from the showrunners to know which one is accurate.
The existence of an Elder Cleric does infer that there is a non-Elder Cleric, or a “lesser Cleric”. This would be new to the franchise. It’s possible, but highly unlikely, that “lesser Clerics” had always existed in the Brotherhood; we just never saw them in any of the games.
As for the Brotherhood existing before the war, I’m technically wrong in this video. After massacring the scientists at Mariposa, Maxson led his soldiers on a months’-long “exodus” to Lost Hills where he settled and there, in November, he officially founded the Brotherhood of Steel. But what exactly were they between October 20th and November 2077? They had seceded by October 20th, making them traitors, but then the nation fell-and you can’t be traitors to a nation that doesn’t exist. So while the Brotherhood did not form in name until November of 2077, I believe they formed in spirit on October 20th 2077. But again, I am technically wrong on this date.
Arthur Maxson actually didn’t leave with Lyons in search of the midwestern chapter. He was dispatched years later, after Lyons had already settled the Citadel in the Capital Wastelands. I combined two expeditions there, my bad. So there were a total of five expeditions from the west to the east that we know of:
1) Paladin Rahmani and Knight Shin, arriving in West Virginia around 25 years after the bombs dropped, in search of Taggardy’s Thunder,
2) The midwestern expedition to Chicago,
3) Lyon’s expedition to find the missing Chicago expedition,
4) Arthur Maxson’s expedition to meet Lyons at the Citadel, and
5) Elder Elijah’s expedition to the Hoover Dam.
It’s true that the Brotherhood could have vertibirds for a variety of reasons, not just the one I listed in the video. In addition to having vertibirds because they got the plans during Fallout 2, they could have been gifted vertibirds from Lyons after Broken Steel, or from Maxson after Fallout 4. We don’t really know.
I agree with your thoughts on the Clerics! Although I passionately dislike the “This prominent thing of importance has been completely unseen until now” I agree it’s possible.
However, I prefer to speculate that the introduction of the Clerics as a Rank as something that was formed after the events of fallout 4. In fact i think it started in the Commonwealth, before culturally spreading to all other Chapters of the Brotherhood of Steel (note, Quintus calls his army’s a “Legion” not a chapter…showing his social structure for his desired BoS may be very different..)
Especially considering that Elder Cleric Quintus begrudgingly takes orders from the Highest Clerics of the Commonwealth, implying it’s likely that the BoS seat of power is now there! So this naturally means that Elder Cleric Quintus’s power is not absolute, being a “Elder cleric” does not mean being on the same level as being a General Elder, and presumably there is also a position of “High Cleric” who act as a Council of Advisors to High Elder Maxson!
I’m so fascinated to learn more! This must be what fallout 3 fans felt like when a BoS presence was confirmed in Fallout 4! How has their history progressed??
The BoS organizational structure has been infuriatingly contradicting since Fallout 1. For example, in F1 scribes were also knights and only the fighters were paladins, lancers are new to F4, and I still do not understand how Paladins work in the F4 organization (they are not simply officers or else there would be no Knight-Captain rank that is higher than a Paladin, nor are they simply an elite formation among the knights since they clearly have a say in policy).
As such an out-of-universe retcon and/or an convoluted in-universe explaination how the organization changed yet again to include clerics is very much in line with what we've seen before about the BoS.
That being said, the concept of a 'cleric' is very suitable for the BoS. The organization is very much ideological driven (and zealous ideology is really no different from religious faith...) so of course they would have Political Officers, Commisars or something like that to ensure ideological purity among its members and persecute doubt, critisisms or lack of faith.
And these Clerics would not necessarily form the leadership caste of Elders themselves; Elders are more like the executive branch of the organization and concerned with with daily leadership and operations of the BoS, and thus care most about 'practical' issues and less about matters of faith. Thus most Elders would not be Clerics.
However, to ensure ideological purity among the core leadership it is very natural that even the Elders must pay respect to Clerics and defer to them in certain matters regarding ideology, and to ensure the clerics have influence on daily policy some clerics would be Elders too and this part of BoS leadership.
With this in mind, the fact that we see only 'Elder Clerics' in the show seems to hint that the ideological/religious Zealots have taken control of the BoS.
That does not bode well for both the BoS and the Wasteland...
I have been waiting for a while for you to explain the Brotherhood in this era
I love how straightforward and non complex fallout is, yay.
Great dissection Oxhorn, I agree with much of what is said, especially about the Clerics. While we know that the Knights safeguard and produce technology, and we know that Scribes study and preserve it. Clerics are ba meant be the Brotherhood's cultural branch of leadership, instilling the Brotherhood's more "quasi-religious" teachings in its members and making sure it is upheld. I am thinking that perhaps it was something that was brought into the early Brotherhood by Rodger Maxson and then maybe discontinued at some point only to be as you mentioned brought back by Arthur Maxson. As you said it's hard until we get firm explanation, or perhaps it was something that the West Coast predominantly did as they kind of had the Cyber monk vibe going on before. But perhaps with him becoming High Elder as you mentioned perhaps the East has also adopted this tradition making it more prevalent.
And as you said I do believe that the Elder still exists as a rank, I just believe that as you said Elder clerics are the highest ranking clerics because we do see an example of a "lesser cleric" in the show, and by lesser cleric I mean someone who's not an elder cleric obviously. And that would be Cleric Felix, he was responsible for teaching initiates and hopefuls about the Brotherhood's rules and the search for technology. And I really did think about that I discussed it with someone the other day. About how there is a Council of Elders in Lost Hills, like 5 including High Elder Maxson III of I remember right.
If you listen to Mason's speech he does mention that the Brotherhood doesn't plan on hoarding technology forever or being isolationist. I believe you had the quote in this video.
I love the idea of the Brotherhood adopting more and more pre-war traditions as they discover and learn more. Them learning Latin could've easily been explained as something they recently discovered and implemented
And an actual religion
An actual explanation is that Emil loves Adeptus Mechanicus.
"they recently discovered". Yes from the legion which they crossed paths with in New Vegas.
I heard an interesting "theory" or a bit of fan fiction,
Wouldn't it be crazy if The Legion Ending was the Chronological Ending to New Vegas and the Brotherhood was actually infiltrated by them. Which would sorta fit in nicely with curtain slides at the end of The Show, the ones of The Strip being ravaged.
Mind you those "slides" would still work for any ending to FNV, as anyone that has beat the game, with the different factions would/could say. Even "Independent".
Because War.. something, something.. Nuclear Winter.. something, something. 🤙
the Brotherhood has used latin phrases for as long as the franchise to my knowledge, I don't about Fallout 1 & 2, but Taggerdy's chapter knew what Ad Victorium meant.
i feel like its important to remember that the BoS isn't a unified organization and that it has separate chapters with separate traditions, just because we see one group doing one thing, doesn't mean ALL of them do that thing.
An excellent point! Veronica describes the BoS in New Vegas as “quasi-religious” and devoted to literal application of the Codex, but that’s her experience of the Mojave chapter under McNamara. Every regional Brotherhood chapter has a different focus and perspective on their founding ideals.
Idk If You BOS your a hypocrite
The chapters don't matter that much, they all have the same beliefs, what matters is the Elder at any given time. Lyons was overall a good elder who wanted to help people so did, than Arthur Maxson took them back to tech hoarders who kill anyone in their way again.
@@janetd5121 Maxsons a hypocrite he hates synths but is a augmented human???
Actually the Show implies they have all changed to some extent. In Fallout 4, we never saw these “Cleric” Techpriests dudes. Yet the Show says they are now in the Commonwealth, in positions of such power that they are mentioned over Elder Maxson…
The Maxson family are akin to royalty to the BoS so switching HQ to the east coast wouldn't be surprising, im sure it would ruffle a few feathers at the same time
An organization that models itself along Arthurian legend? Yes, they will eventually pick up the concept of 'the one true king' regardless what more down-to-earth elders consider sensible doctrine.
Switching HQs was problematic as Lyons and his East Cost branch were effectively exiled for abandoning the Codex and putting efforts into helping and integrating settlers. Like Lyons did with the Lone Wanderer.
Even with little Maxson traveling with them, the primary West Coast branch didn’t agree with Lyons’ decisions and kicked them to the curb. That’s why the Outcasts exist in Fallout 3, they’re the part of Lyons’ group that wanted to stick to the Codex and ignore or harass settlers.
@@SomaCruz500 as of Fallout 4 Lyons is dead and the brotherhood outcasts have been reintegrated into the east coast BoS and most of Lyon's progressive policy's have been reversed back to the more traditional ways under the leadership of Elder Arthur Maxon
The very reason the West Coast Elders sent Maxson out East when he was a child was to distance him from their power base, and to avoid him using his name to challenge their authority as he grew older... Ironic how it was literally the move that gave him the very opportunity needed to build a sufficient power base to not only challenge them, but seemingly take full command of both the East Coast and West Coast...
@@thestanleys3657 yes however, some of the ideals of Lyons was upheld solely because Arthur Maxson loved Sarah Lyons, who had the same ideals, such as a willingness to let outsiders join them.
I personally like the theory that the chapter featured in the TV show are recruited heavily from the remnants of Caesar's Legion (most likely after Caesar died from the brain cancer featured in NV, likely resulting in the Legion descending into civil war)... It would explain why they are so much more zealous, along with the use of Latin names, having brought those attitudes and traditions with them, but it's some of the remarks made by the Elder that is the biggest hint... He makes the statement... "We once ruled these lands"... but the West Coast Brotherhood have never ruled over any territory, and were always the underdogs, where as Caesar's Legion did rule significant territory... He also remarks... "Power is taken, not given..." in response to Maximus killing Titus, which is a very Caesar's Legion view on "promotion"...
while that would explain some things, iirc Caesar legion was not pro technology and modern world things, so i doubt they would join the brotherhood, let alone become elder (or elder clerk)
@@Ricardo_Rick they were not anti-technology, they just didn't hoard it in the way the Brotherhood do... They used advanced weapons in NV, but reserved them for their most experienced and elite soldiers, IIRC...
If the Legion had collapsed, a bunch of indoctrinated fighters looking for a new leader could easily turn to a faction like the Brotherhood, if Maxson's Brotherhood could prove their strength... Given they must have established contact with the West Coast Brotherhood, and then demonstrate it's power -- the Prydwyn and a fleet of Vertibirds would have shown that -- it's reasonable that the Legion survivors would sign on...
@@ImRuined666 perhaps, but maybe some could have gone to the NCR as well
@@Ricardo_Rick sure, but I was only focusing on what we saw of the chapter featured in the show, and a possible reason for their especially zealous, and pseudo-religious deviation from standard Brotherhood practices, along with their assignment of Latin names, which was something the Roman Legions did for recruits from non-Roman backgrounds...
@@ImRuined666 well, yeah, perhaps, then again i'm not sure if that elder zealot came from the airship or if he was already in camp tho, that could change things
Jonah Nolan and Todd Howard should make you an official lore consultant for the show.
signed
Im sure they watching lore videos on UA-cam 😂
No way
Oxhorn said he was satisfied with the show’s depiction of BOS. Also Oxhorn got his information from the same source material Jonathan Nolan did.
I think Oxhorn need to make a side quest brainstorm video. Who knows? If Nolan watches the video and read the comment section he can prepare some bullshit for Cooper.
Fun fact. They filmed the brotherhood base scenes in my hometown of Wendover at the Wendover Airbase. Which is where they did several nuclear bomb testings during WW2 and is where the Enola Gay ran test flights and left off of to go drop the bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. As a huge fan of the video games I’m glad this little nod go recognized in my home town.
Filmed it most of it on the Salt Flats as well.
Super mutants in Fallout 4’s Commonwealth would oftentimes scream at the player saying, “You humans made us. Now suffer for your arrogance!” Another physical manifestation of the human hubris.
This is also a line from sci-fi. I forget where, but it was pretty famous for a while. I think it was also pulled from further back.
Also - a nod to Frankenstein.
You know it's legit when even the super mutants back up the Brotherhood of Steel's point of view. Lol 🤣
didnt the master make them?
@@luckyflynt1646 West-tek developed them before the war. The information was actually leaked to the public and even the Chinese heard about FEV. It was actually one of their first targets. Ballistic missiles from either the Chinese mainland or a offshore submarine struck the West Tek facility in Southern California. They were able to score direct hits on the facility multiple times. When this happened the explosions caused the vats of FEV ruptured and this released tons of it into the atmosphere, which led to countless genetic mutations that we see throughout the franchise. Another facility in Huntersville, West Virginia also created a strain of FEV, they used it to infect the local townsfolk of Huntersville using their water supply. And this occurred before the Great War even happened. Now in my opinion floaters should have been made by the Master. But we do see them in 76 as well so it is possible that they were also created by West-tek.
BOS is one of my favorite Fallout Factions
I was playing Fallout 3 today, and when I was aiding some brotherhood soldiers fight the enclave post game, one of them shouted out, "For Eden!"
From the show that one mention of Eden sounded to me like the Botherhoods version of Paradise or Utopia.
And it makes sense; the Brotherhood sees itself as the ones who will start a new and better world. Note I say 'start', not 'rule'. Their paradise is a world where all mistakes of the past have been corrected and humanity can start anew, the Botherhood no longer required having completed its mission and can fade away.
@@quantum340 The problem is who gets to decide when to start rebuilding.
@@jimcalhoun361 Oh, there a more problems than just that. But those can conveniently be ignored by someone who tries to achieve paradise. As is usual for beliefs that are more based on faith or ideology than on reason or realism.
Eden is the future that has been predicted by the Brotherhood's founder, Rodger Maxson. "Our Scribes will hold onto them, preserve them, perhaps even progress beyond them. And the Knights will protect them. Like a hard shell around a precious seed. One day, when the time is right, that seed will grow. And a new civilization will be born. This... This is why we were born, don't you see it? Helping your fellow man is a good goal, a soldier's goal. But this... We will be the catalyst that changes the world." ~ High Elder Roger Maxson
@@quantum340 yes I agree 100% basically said the same thing in my comment
My favorite theory about the Brotherhood in the Show is that after Caesar died, some of the Legion joined with the Western Brotherhood and perhaps if “Elder Cleric Quintus” is actually a former Legate. By working together It’s how they got so strong on West Coast again. It’s how they have a Base on the Utah Salt Flats (Legion Territory) and when you think about it, the NCR really isn’t really isn’t the “Antithesis” of the Legion. In fact they have many similarities, such as Imperialism. The Brotherhood is. Their exact opposite. As the BoS they remove advanced technology from everyone else, they are forced to adapt or die. The Red and Gold BoS Banners, the Latin names…the Cultish Clerics. Quintus even calls his forces a “Legion” not a Chapter. When Elder Cleric Quintus says “we used to rule the Wasteland” he is talking about Caesar’s Legion. The “New Brotherhood” he talks about making? It’s the fulfillment of Caesar’s dreams. *A synthesized Legion.* The 88th Tribe. With Cold Fusion now in their possession, California shall be their Rome.
That makes total sense. Quintus even tells Maximus they “once ruled the wasteland”. I don’t recall any Brotherhood chapters proclaiming themselves to be an empire or nation state (NCR & the Legion), but in the first episode when Quintus sends the knights in search of the cold fusion device he says it has potential to “harm our NATION”. Add this to your theory and Quintus could be a former legate seeing this Brotherhood and a synthesis of the old one and Caesar’s Legion.
They nuked the NCR to make sure they could use the legion
This makes sense when you notice the lack of technology this faction of the BoS have.
@@allistertenpenny6871 The lack of technology is probably cause the war with the NCR probably drained them. You don't see any T-51's and energy weapons cause they're probably either all rusted away and broken after centuries of use or now locked away in Western Brotherhood vaults to only be used in case of emergencies.
Side notes...In the earliest Welsh mythology (the origins of King Arthur,) one character is Macsen Wledig, which is probably where Roger Maxson's name came from. Prydwen was the name of the ship that brought King Arthur to the Otherworld.
In my playthrough it also took Maxson to the otherworld 😊
Prydwen is also very close to Prydwain, an old Welsh word for the English word Britain.
It has to be the Prydwen because Knight Titus distinctively has a Boston Ascent
THAT WTF I SAID!!!!!!!!!😂😂😂 he sounds like literally every CPU in fallout 4
Wrong use of CPU. It's NPC. A cpu is a computer processor unit. Not even the same as an NPC, which stands for non player character@@oizys2475
It could be a “prydwen II” depending on player choice.
To be fair, Rappaport is a terrible actor that can't do any other accents
@@EyeHeytEwe fair
There was a line in the NCR and BOS cooperation ending in New Vegas that said there were other chapters that still fought the NCR. So there are more than two chapters on the west coast.
I like to think that the toaster oven that Knight. Thaddeus talking about was the little toaster in The Big Mt
"Don't mess with me, pal, I got a heating coil with your name on it!"
Titus after getting cussed out by a toaster: maybe pre-war technology isn't worth saving...
That vicious toaster would cause a crisis of faith in anyone...
Lmfao. This is an underrated comment 😂
So the Brotherhood destroys the Enclave, then they destroy the Institute…and now Big MT? If anyone is bringing us back to the Dark Age, it’s the Brotherhood.
If the airship is actually the Prydwen, I hope we get to see Maxson in the next season and maybe even a hint of the Sole Survivor saving Boston from the Institute.
That would be a cool idea but who would play a live action Arthur maxson? I can imagine he would like to meet Maximus and he tells him to keep an eye on the elder from the first season!
They should 100% bring Tim Russ back as captain Kells
But what’s weird is that they never refer to Elder Maxson in the Commonwealth…they mention the “Highest Clerics in the Commonwealth” not Maxson….so either Maxson left the Commonwealth but didn’t use the Predwen…or he died and the BoS is now run by this priestly order of Clerics..
@@jakespacepiratee3740 I’m pretty sure Maxson is one of those highest order of Elders. Since they made Elders plural it could be referring to Macon, Elder Lyons’s successor, and maybe even the Sole Survivor getting promoted to Elder since there were cut content of the SS being promoted to Elder after destroying the Institute.
@@ngythe1king yeah cut content isn’t canon, and Maxson isn’t a Cleric. They said “Highest Clerics” not Highest Elders.
I think you are correct. As it stands at the conclusion of Season 1, the BoS airship is the Prydwin. The elder-guy mentions the clerics of the Commonwealth, and Knight Titus has a Boston accent.
Not to mention, the surprise and awe of the recruits at the arrival of the airship.
I’m gonna be disappointed if the Brotherhood doesn’t make some awesome tech from Cold Fusion, like Infinite-Charge Cold Fusion Cores for Power Armor, or Infinite-Ammo Blue Laser Rifles, or Cold Fusion powered Robots, a City built on Los Angeles…they are probably going to go for the smallest impact possible, because the Nolan Brothers don’t like making CGI-Heavy Cool Sci-Fi Tech stuff 😢 if it turns out that way, it will remind me all too much of the implications of Fallout 3 Broken Steel - in that Epilogue the BoS acts so excited to begin salvaging and reverse-Engineering Enclave tech far past just the Virtibirds. You can see a Scribe tinkering on Enclave Power Armor, another Scribe made a Scrambler that can turn Enclave Mind-Controlled Deathclaws over to their side, they started to use more Plasma Rifles….all of that is gone by Fallout 4. 😭
Tbf BOS does use Vertbirds and the prydwen is an example of their victory however I think the reason they don't have plasma is balancing and symbolism blue laser for institute and Pre war red lasers for the Brotherhood
It's all going to be retconned in whatever sequel this gets anyway because writers really hate letting _anything_ stay established.
23:27 Maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't part of the lore in FO4 that Arthur Maxon reunited the eastern chapter with the west after the deaths of Elder and Sarah Lyons? If so, it would make sense that they could/would send the Prydwen to where it was needed, and have orders come from Maxon's chapter.
I think he reuinited the Eastern Brotherhood with the Brotherhood Outcasts, and regained support from the Western Chapter Elder Council
Yup, the red themes in Arthur's people's armor came from the 'Outcasts' red stripes in Fallout 3.
Lyons got cut off for being a decent human being, that wanted to work more with local communities and
protect them, instead of raiding them for food and tech anything more complex than a toaster.
@@ToniJ-ol8bgI actually wish the Outcasts rejoined the Brotherhood but kept their unique style. It looked so cool and it kept a reminder of their history, rather than erasing it.
Seems strange that the elder would oppose Arthur Maxon, he says the brotherhood has gotten weak but if we know anything about Maxon he'd surely improve the west coast since his order is more akin to the original values of the brotherhood
they found out he spared danse?
@@mizv4043 I think canonically he wouldn't spare him, he's the same guy that chose to completely destroy the institute without preserving any of their superior technology
@@StrangerOnTheWeb that always irked me. They are the Brotherhood of Steal, not the Brotherhood of Destroy.
It's entirely possible that the religious elements of the Brotherhood we see in the show are just that, the half remembered traditions of Maxson's old unit chaplain. The Brotherhood are basically 1950s US Army crossed with medieval crusader order. I like the idea that they have continued and adapted what they know of religion from a US military chaplaincy corps, which would include a number of old world religious traditions including Catholicism.
The guys in Robes aren’t Scribes. I thought that at first that they were bringing back the older look, but the guys in the Robes are consistently referred to as *“Clerics”* not Scribes. The Leader of the Brotherhood in the Show? He is named *“Elder Cleric Quintus”* he himself in the first episode says that their mission comes from the “Highest Clerics in the Commonwealth” in fact i don’t think “Scribe” is ever mentioned in the Show. And why would the BoS make a Scribe an Elder? Consistently, the Robed members of the BoS are called “Clerics” not Scribes. All the Fallout Wikis refers to them as such, not Scribes.
I was excited to see how Oxhorn thought the Clerics came about as a Rank. Most likely formed after Fallout 4, as I cordially dislike the explanation of “Oh, the Clerics always existed you just never saw them until now.”
I hope they explain the shifting around in the ranks and the new ranks. The squires tended to be children in the game, then when they started more training theyd become aspirants, then initiate, then knight, paladin, sentinel and elder with branches going into scribe.
@@mizv4043 99% confident they were given a glossary and then just made shit up based on what they assumed those terms meant.
What I love about the brotherhood, is it isn't the conventional "good guys" faction like the minutemen, their goal is greater than just being good and nice, they need to protect pre-war technology because they saw how evil people use it, it ultimately protects the whole wellbeing of the world instead of just doing good things on a smaller scale, this is why they are the nemesis of the institute, also, people complain about them because of how militarized they seem to be, THEY ARE needed like any other rising country needs army that focuses on defense, and they are effective at that, particularly hunting super mutants and other creatures that threatens humanity, THEY DON'T NEED to be charitable like the minutemen, people don't seem to understand this.
I think people misunderstand Quintus as well. People are addicted to trying to see the bad within the Brotherhood and ignore the good. And he insinuated multiple things but I don't know why you only spoke about one. Because the dialogue he gives depicts that he is talking about the West Coast Brotherhood "a time where we used to rule the Wasteland", well they already rule the Wasteland on the East Coast more or less. So that doesn't really hold true for that side of the Brotherhood. I truly do believe he is talking about rebirthing the Western Brotherhood. He might try to take over but he has no name right to it. People are too loyal to Maxson. We know that there was issues with cults on the West Coast.
I hadn't thought of that, very interesting!
@@oxhorn Always great community to share opinions in. Thank you for all the great work you do for us 🙏
Caswennan was a red herring unfortunately. I really wish that they had built a second airship. Even if it was the second airship it still indicates that the Brotherhood was victorious in Fallout 4, or at minimal the Minutemen with them kept alive. Say it was a new ship that showed up completely. Number one, it would be extremely hard to recreate a model without having the other one to scale up to. Now I'm sure that they have blueprints so that's not really as much of a factor. Number two a new airship showing up doesn't confirm that the Prydwen was destroyed. The dialogue given by Elder cleric Quintus "these orders come from the highest clerics in the Commonwealth". This would insinuate that the Brotherhood is still active and even has some kind of command structure operating out of the Commonwealth.. which wouldn't be possible without BoS ending, or the Minutemen ending where they are kind of allied with them.
But yeah, that kind of solidifies things in my opinion. Regardless of what the ship is they have a command structure in the Commonwealth...
8:37 Pause here.
I don't know if I'm the only one to notice, but the T-60 Knight on the right has a helmet resembling one more from the games. The other knight, one on the left has one looking like one from the TV show. And also the knight on the rights helmet is brighter than the armor which confuses me.
There were some opinions,that tha BoS we see, it's the BoS , with The Legion implemented.
So,the change from the original military,to the semi-religious one.
I can actually see this being a thing for the west coast chapter. The BoS gaining converts who bring in their own practices that are modified to their new belief system.
Fellow Paladins, Knights, Scribes, Squires and Initiates! Remember, regardless of propaganda never stray from the path of steel. And for those of you who oppose us and our goals... There will come a day where you'll wish you had done a little evil... For a greater good. Human kind must march on... To glorious salvation... No matter what!!!
Ad Victoriam
~Sentinel Edwards - East Coast Brotherhood of Steel
i think the reason they never really say elder is because Maxson sort of centralized the brotherhood as much as he could, and that means he's the only elder. BUT because of the nature of how far the other chapters are, that there is still a recognized local authority, thus requiring a new rank. "Clerics" would be experienced, learned individuals (likely, former elders). In this way, there is unity, and administration within the BOS
26:41 I saw that scene and i was all, "well, they could try, but this is Arthur Maxon we're talking about" i highly doubt Arthur would ever let this slide, he'd probably realize what was happening and then proceed to take matters into his own hands and he'd start by discharging that western elder.
In here you mention that Maxon never studied Christian mythology. He may have. As a former soldier I can tell you that to become an officer in the US Military you need to have a college degree. He could have studied any number of different things during his pursuit of a degree.
agreed. the modern military is one of the most highly educated with even enlisted having masters and PhDs.....but in the 2070s - who knows.
He might have studied theology who knows
Ox, I think you need to revisit the terminals on the Prydwen. Proctor Quinlan's terminal in particular states that the West Coast Elders appointed Maxon to the position of Elder of the East Coast chapter following his reunification with the Outcasts. Because Arthur is a Maxon, he outranks the West Coast Elders, especially after conquering the Institute
Something that's been forgotten is that the prewar USA created commonwealth out of groups of states. Its possible that the guy in charge of the base we see in the show was referring to the commonwealth they were in
Favorite line was Elder Maxson noting that this was in fact a new dark age. Love that as it not only harkens the Brotherhood back to the monastic orders of that era whose job it was to record and collect knowledge, but it also validates their ranking system instead of it just “sounding cool”
That swirling incense is for praying to the smoking miniguns
I have never seen the BOS display a murderous attitude toward Ghouls in any walkthrough. Given their past with FEV and how most Super Mutants turn out, it's unsurprising they don't give Marcus and Fawkes the benefit of the doubt. Honestly, the only BOS character I can actually call evil is Father Elijah, who's supposed to be a villain.
You forgot to mention the Montana Brotherhood that Lyons mentions.
The only problem I had with the show's depiction of the Brotherhood was that all the initiates were uneducated idiots and bullies. Love them or hate them in all the Fallout games I played in the Brotherhood had always highly educated their initiates.
Perhaps that's why the elder states "we've lost our way"
Quintus did say they were weak. Maybe this was part of his thinking.
I mean Maximus seems to be the only uneducated one Dane and Thaddeus don’t seem stupid (he knew about the ghoul radiation thing) and Maximus didn’t
Titus does say what kind of remnants. It’s literally the same type of fetch quest they send you on in fallout 4. They’re sending him on mission to retrieve remnants of past technology and it usually ends up being a toaster. Stop looking for a deeper meaning to what he said there is none.
Wish we see Elder Maxson in Season 2, if that's really the Prydwen.
I killed him in one of my playthroughs.. he won't be showing up in S2 😂😅
i don’t think they would confirm it’s the prydwen or would confirm anything just because todd doesnt want to ruffle any feathers about canon endings
@@bagelbite99the ship says Prydwen on the side of it
@@_Azulite_ please you can barely read it
@@bagelbite99 The T-60 was also discovered on the east coast and adopted there, the west coast chapter never had it. In the show one even asks what model is that? They even refer to orders from clerics back in the commonwealth, it is the Prydwen and those knights landing were from Maxson's chapter remember one guy asking "what are they doing here?".
Ad Victoriam brothers and sisters. May not be a paragon of good, but we seek to preserve and maintain humanity at whatever cost. Ad Victorium.
Ad Victoriam!
I like how NONE of the BoS fans know how to write "Ad Victoriam". I've seen "Ad Victoram", "Ad Victorium", even "Ad Victoria" just this week. You guys are like Caesar's LARPers in Fallout: New Vegas. Life imitates art.
@@wetrix2119 ehh auto correct and honestly when I wrote it I was too lazy to actually correct it 🤷♂️ sue me. And cry some more about things you can't possibly hope to understand.
Ad Victoriam!
@@wetrix2119cry some more 🙏🙏🙏
the Scribe is an underrated and overlooked rank of the BoS, if they were just Knights & Paladins the whole organisation would be aimless.
I've always just kinda assumed the minutemen ending for FO4 was Canon. It's the most open for possibilities and kinda the "good ending" which is the one that Bethesda and most games tend to look at as canon
The song "I don't want to see Tomorrow" actually perfectly reflects the Brotherhood of Steel's idealized vision of "Eden."
Don't forget the "infamous" line spoken in anger by various Brotherhood Members in Fallout 4, during and after curtain combat sequences.
"GODLESS FREAKS!"
It's definitely meant to be a derogatory statement toward non humans.
Edit
Why wouldn't or couldn't "Eden" mean anything other than what most would think it refers to? A place of beauty and/or tranquility. Maximus may not fully comprehend it's meaning ("..or whatever".), but it doesn't mean he hasn't overheard someone talking about or even "preaching" about it, during his tenure.
This would also fit in with people's assumptions that this "new" depiction of the Brotherhood is more on the religious side.
Furthermore, Bethesda (Todd) was ok with it and therefore it's now canon. Perhaps they've always wanted this to be part of the lore, but couldn't put it into the recent games, for various (obvious) reasons.
Maybe it's just me, But i can't help shake the feeling that the Show's western brotherhood has some Ceasar's Legion influence to it. The brutality of the knights towards squires, especially how Titus threatens maximus. The Coloring of the BoS sigil being a red background with Orange secondary color which i can't remember seeing them ever use before. Red with white, sure, blues and yellows, absolutely... Red and orange though? that's Legion colors. Might just be looking into things too much though
Explains a lot. All males in the compound. Do we see any females in uniform? Seeing the colors made me think of the Outcasts, before I thought of the BoS in general. Latinate chanting and twisting of medieval religious practices. It would even make sense for "Neo-Roma" to become "Psuedo-Christianity". For a while now, I've been wondering if this is a fake BoS. Like the "Elder Cleric" is actually running a scam and "The Prydwen" is actually a knock-off, somehow. Perhaps another scheme of Management?
And the significant increase in the use of latin too ...
Red and black could mean a West Coast version of the BoS outcasts! Those were their colors in FO3
I agree, The brutality and as Mariolis mentioned, there is alot more latin aswell.
I wouldnt be surprised if something happened in the Mojave with the Legion, and the brotherhood always being more Military, and CL, being also more military that the BoS took in lots of legion folks and that caused some CL Brutality and other Influence to seep into the BoS.
But well certainly find out more in S2 when we see more of the Mojave and whats become of the big 3 factions out that way.
This is Institute propaganda.
the institute is at least aiming to be self sufficient at some point. BoS produce nothing. it is literally a dead end
The institute hogged all of their resources and left the commonwealth to die
This comment is BoS blasphemy!!
@@kimrasmussen7188 found the synth
@@kituwahband vertibirds are cool. we will assimilate them for better use.
the brother hood under maxons rule feels like an actual family/brotherhood, the brother hood in the show feels like an unified army where everyone dislikes eachother.
I love where the BoS is at in the show. I think the show runners brought the BoS far closer to what they originally were meant to be, than any of the games since 2.
i agree
I would also surmise that because of the time jump and, assuming, the BOS ending of Fallout 4, it’s likely that Arthur became the High Elder. He could’ve been majority voted to that position or he could’ve taken it. Either way, I could see the Fallout show Elder being bitter, especially in the former and wanting to break off from Maxson.
I played the BoS in my first few playthroughs, then realized they were nothing more than powerful raiders. From the show, I see BoS more as being like the Holy Roman Empire of Charlemagne, etc.
Hail Ceasar.....
LMFAO they're definitely not raiders. They usually only confiscate technology from those who are deemed dangerous. The reason why they don't go and master every single ghoul and or intelligent super mutants is because they're just not that type of organization. They fight with real threats for the most part, only clashing with average people over technology when it is absolutely crucial
the BoS in fallout 4 are indeed basically raiders, but they try to pretend they are morally superior
@@Ricardo_Rick lol people only choose to see the view the negative they are either ignorant of or willingly choose to ignore the positive. Requisition of food and other materials in serious events such as war or when it is deemed absolutely necessary is something done by modern militaries the world round, even the Canadian army did it to French, Dutch and German citizens. These armies are not raider groups and neither is the BoS, they are always willing to negotiate first, when it comes to requisitioning crops and stuff people have to remember that it is up to the player's choice whether they attack the settlement or not, it is easy to find a diplomatic solution. Which the Brotherhood mostly always tries to work things out first, unless it's there actual enemy or it's deemed absolutely crucial.
Raiders brutalize innocent settlers for the fun of it, they commit constant acts of sadistic and unprovoked violence. The Brotherhood doesn't mutilate the bodies of civilians... As a matter of fact they mainly just target synths, super mutants and feral ghouls, which a lot of the Commonwealth population agrees with, on average besides the railroad people hate synths. Even the Minuteman's senior members like Preston Garvey have made comments about super mutants like "when it comes to the super mutants it's them or us" and even comments on how the Minuteman had been struggling against them for years, and that he was happy to have the Brotherhoods help subduing and clearing them out. Either way I think generic statements like the one that you made just aren't that accurate, the organization is a lot more complicated then that.
@@canadianbacon9819 the brotherhood started the war, they quite literally invaded the commonwealth with an army, made the settlers give up food (the MC can negotiate, but it's clear the brotherhood doesn't care if the mc does it with violence) and wants to rule the land while destroying anyone who gets in their way (you can argue that the institute was the enemy, but the railroad never did a thing to the brotherhood, nor would they do since after destroying the institute they would become without purpose, but they destroyed them either way)
the brotherhood are not psychos like the raiders, but honestly they are basically cleaner raiders with a sense of morality
Hello, Oxhorn. I still consider "Red Snappah" as your finest video.
Regarding "Brotherhoon of Steel use of Latin in Fallout" = While Latin is considered the official language of Vatican City, it is heavily used in English vocabulary in theology, the sciences, medicine, and law. It would be vital to identify pre-war technology.
Man I love Oxhorn 😤
One of my favourite mysteries with the Brotherhood is where is the Chicago expedition? We know Fallout Tactics is essentially non-canon now but the expedition being sent there is still canon as per lore from Fallout 3. I can see a future game definitely being set there, Brotherhood and Enclave the like are know to be in the area at some point.
Wow this video cleared up so much confusion I had after watching the TV show. Thanks 😊
I never played the Fallout games only watched bits of gameplay and the tv show too so yeah this video helps explain a lot about the BOS
My wife and I are longtime fallout fans and even named my car Beth as she is the best car I have ever had and the same can be said of the developers of this franchise.
That said you are hands down the best influencer my beloved Fallout franchise has ever had. I love the format and I appreciate your work from the bottom of my heart.
man i love the BOS, they remind of the space marines in warhammer 40k❤❤
as long as you remember that 40k doesn't have any good guys, comrade.
A very well thought out evaluation of all things BoS. I enjoy your thorough history and factoids. Very well done. Please continue!! God bless you for sharing!
They didn't beat the NCR it was a mad woman on a hill. The NCR just abandoned the area.
I feel like they abandoned the area because it was likely irradiated at that time. I think she was an NCR ranger they sent to recon the area, after all that time had passed, to see if it was still able to be powered and therefor worth their time.
@@kittensoundwave3480 I'll disagree on the ranger bit she's a prewar mystery, who use NCR motifs as a rallying cry to get power, enough to be afraid of. Cause even as a guy who likes the brotherhood. If you look at the equipment they had it wasn't professional. Even if shady sands did get nuked the NCR should have enough equipment to standardize the gear, and in the opening you would not have the chaos of the vault raid. Even if you want to think they wanted to hide their NCR. It's just window dressing for her goal of cold fusion! And she used people.
@@pacchar1423yeah no, those guys had a somewhat direct connection to the NCR. The official NCR would do something if people using their symbols held out in a place they retreated from. They wouldn’t want people using their symbols if they were doing stuff they didn’t approve of. If they did approve of them, they are a part of the NCR.
@@jakespacepiratee3740 no they wouldn't they just not care, it's normal to ignore an inconvenience. and she was powerful but no more than the bos in new vegas and inconvenience at best. who gathered rabble if they had any connection to the wider NCR shady sands would have been under their control. they abandoned the area and the people to their fate. nation do it all the time. wave a flag no one cares. it was local and she was a pre war/post-war resident. for all the ncr would know she's a mad woman on the hill. just like the form ranger said.
Weren't there four expeditions east? The Appalatchian expedition?
I clicked as soon as I seen it
Soon as the notification came down
Same
Same
Me too!!
We also don't know why the Brotherhood was in the ruins. They most likely as you said send a team to figure out what happened. But I also do believe that a crime against humanity that large would be taken seriously by them. They probably were also looking for survivors, or they wouldn't have been willing to take them in. As it is not their inside the borders of their objective (if they truly are there just to scavenge as you say)
Sounds like we’re gonna need an Elder Maxson appearance, but who would play him ??? Can’t screw this up.
11:14 I don’t think Maximus here is saying that the Great War happened when he was a kid, but that the only bombs that dropped that mattered to him, or rather the one that ended his world and past life, dropped when he was a kid, if anything this was for dramatic effect to add to the reveal that shady sands got nuked and he was there.
The brotherhood probably activated a GECK somewhere and are protecting the location or want to make such a location
I just can’t wait for season 2 it better be at least 12 episodes that release weekly I want a slow burn
Maxson: “YOU ARE A SYNTH! You’re not the real Danse, you’re an abomination! You are the institutes play thing!”
Danse: “you are a sad, overzealous, crazy man and you have my pity. farewell” 😂. Also Awesome video Ox! 😎👍🏼
Yes but Danse also believes that he is a complete security risk and that he should be destroyed. In order for him to save the court above you have to convince him not to take his own life.
Thanks for the hard work and dedication to the Fallout Universe. Love the uploads Ox
@3:30 - yeah, but right there, in the clip you attach - the writers have a teacher telling cadets who have been there 10 years what their basic mission is, and then our intrepid hero, again after 10 years of study, doesn't know the difference between a rotor and a circuit board.
I can think of a hundred ways to convey a sense for the brotherhoods basic mission, having members reminded as though they are too stupid to remember why they are there also treats the audience like they are stupid, we can't just observe how the brotherhood does their business and understand it. Or at least have maximus explain to lucy later, since an explanation to someone who hasn't been sitting there ten years actually makes sense.
In a bigger picture, the brotherhood has been turned into the Legion, ordered by fear rather than mission. It's basically nihilist - people can't form a community on a principle and have mutual respect, each one needs to tear the other down in order to feel better about themselves. There is no such thing as dedication to mission, each knight will waste brotherhood resources whenever they "wanna kill something" , even as it seems their kind of power armor is unable to handle the common preditors of the environment they drop into (gently by cable instead of a power jump, so much for keeping the obvious high points of the game. Oh, but add hand jets while the iconic stance is holding a big gun because ??).
I'll continue watching this video, but how can you show a clip of the brotherhood being treated like drooling morons and not comment?
I love these guides to the lore of all the Fallout factions! Here's hoping for a lore guide on The Enclave soon.
You have earned a new subscriber. Love your videos.
I'm surprised Oxhorn doesn't realize those aren't actually the only two possible canonical endings from fallout 4. There's a number of reasons that isn't necessarily true. For example the prydwen we saw may not have been the same one we got in fallout 4. In fact there is a very real possibility that it could have been destroyed and the one we saw was a newly rebuilt prydwen.
They are the only two realistically possible Endings for the "Brotherhood in the Commonwealth" to be giving orders to the West
They did not send Arthur with Elder Lyons. Arthur was not born. Sarah Lyons was born in DC she is years older than Arthur. Arthur was sent to Dc before the west coast cut the east coast off.
I love the sarcastic rant he goes on about why the brotherhood can do no wrong and how they’re little more than tyrants
For anyone interested, I think it's pretty clear that Brotherhood of Steel is based at least partially on Canticle of Leibowitz. They are essentially a militarized version of the priesthood, and the book itself is pretty clearly in line with the phrase "war never changes". Just didn't hear that, and want to give more context as to why there is a technological priesthood in an apocalypse.
I'm sure they made the show with the intention of having oxhorn deciphering the show then just rolling with it 😂
The show has a potential to be so sick, the universe and lore of fallout is already so convoluted and extensive.. the whole first season serves as not even a set up but an intro. One monster one faction barely any conflict. What we know for sure is that its going to be a war over the cold fusion. Gunna be a great show in the coming years
Hey ox can you do the same video but about enclave their current statuts where are they theorys and that stuff
Actually, don’t assume the brotherhood wasn’t responsible for shady sands. Hank was a bit too comfortable and familiar with power armor. I bet he worked with them to destroy shady sands. And Maximus is going to find out that the brotherhood was involved, and is actually the enemy, and he’s an inside man now. trying to take them down
The BoS wouldn't launch nukes at the NCR. In FNV the only way to get max affinity with them is to disable the nukes in Lonesome Road - despite the NCR being one of the available targets.
@@dutchpatriot17 nobody said it was a nuke. They bombed it. That’s why when Hank saw the bombs in vault 33 he said “I think I know who you are…” it was probably the same bombs.
@@dutchpatriot17 and also, only SOME of FONV is canon. According to Bethesda themselves. And we don’t know everything that is or isn’t yet.
I know some people dont like how BoS has changed over the two centuries, but if anything it gives it all more believability in my mind.
All generations and iterations think they're doing the best and right thing at the time, and they're all ... "complicated".. when it comes down to whether or not they're currently succeeding.
I still want fallout 5 be a BoS civil war between Midwest BoS and East coast BoS. Where mid west have super mutant and Ghoul members and basically is less fashy.
I have to say, the way the Brotherhood of Steel was depicted in the show screamed Warhammer Space Marines to me. Perhaps some may appreciate this depiction, but to me personally it feels off when compared to the games.
Brotherhood might be the reason why wasteland is still a wasteland even though 200 years has passed.
23:26 and that's when we knew what the 2 possible canon endings are for Fallout 4.
It’s definitely based on catholic traditions, they’re literally on a quest to fine the garden of Eden and the President is also Eden…
Also why are people upset Bioshock has Christian references everywhere
if the brotherhood is not religious then I'm Santa
i hope you’re having a good day, and i hope you’re happy, ox.
I love me some Oxhorn lol
I find it interesting that one of the fallout shows main points of interest is on cold fusion or limitless power.
There are instances of this technology being used in falliut new vegas in the microfusion breeder technology. Recharge rifles and pistols are essentially using this tech, but it hasnt been scaled up to be useful for house snd home use. I know its a gimic item meant to give you a gun with no ammo needs but it introduces this concept that fallout has unlocked a form of this power producing frame already.
They did the brotherhood of steel dirty in the show.
Agreed. The red logo had me thinking they were the Brotherhood Outcasts though.
@DanBarry851 I kinda like it the brotherhood is like a mid evil cut obsessed with technology but still sorta primitive idk Iike it
They were perfect, what show did you watch?
What's wrong?
@CyberController- Clearly you don't know anything about Fallout lore and the Brotherhood
My head cannon is that the Elder in the show we see might be a Enclave Remnant. He would be the right age to have been a young member of either east or west coast Enclave and probably would been easy to join up with the Westcoast BOS in its weakened state and raise up the ranks. That plus each Chapter being separate means that particular group might have more Enclave ideals as adverse to the Chapters seen in games.
Simply the best Fallout faction, period.
The thing about the Brotherhood is that it went wrong almost immediately.
Roger Maxson rebelled against the US Government for ethical reasons. He was horrified not by the technology being used but by the use it was put to.
He established the Brotherhood of Steel in order to create a command structure that was completely separate from the US Military. He chose Knights, Paladins and Scribes in order to create a structure that was somewhat similar to a military command, but which had an in-built expectation of honor and defense. The purpose of the Brotherhood was to collect and preserve technology FOR the people that would rebuild society.
But very shortly after the formation of the Brotherhood, the Elders were created to "assist" Roger Maxson in leading the group. And almost immediately they began to add a religious element to the Brotherhood. And they perverted the purpose of the Brotherhood until it became their purpose to preserve technology FROM the people that would rebuild society.
Elders like Lyons were much closer to the original goals of Roger Maxson than most of the Brotherhood.
Arthur Maxson ended up going against the teachings of Elder Lyons. He followed the path of the Elders who twisted Roger's plans.
And, it appears that the Commonwealth Brotherhood not only survived Fallout 4 it became the central authority of the Brotherhood of Steel. The mention of Clerics seems to indicate that he went even further into the quasi-religious nature of the Brotherhood. And the Elder shown in the show seems to be almost fanatical.
Never been this early to an Oxhorn video 🗿
Fr
Come on Bos just rocking that 40k fill!
Hey Ox, are the brotherhood still securing b.o.s folders around the west coast?
Mannnnnnn😂 let that go oxhorn tries his best we all make mistakes it's not his fault there was a brotherhood file in the sunset sasprilla factory 😂
@@TheFeltmeister I mean, it kind of was his fault since he installed a mod which altered the blank file to one with the BoS written on it.
@@dutchpatriot17 hey we all make mistakes, man lol i just think its funny that he reuploaded it into a short not long ago 💀
Hey buddy, are you still in your mom's basement?
Maybe Eden is the friends we make along the way
If this portrayal of the brotherhood upsets you, then you aren't a fallout fan, plain and simple! Wonderful vid as always ox
Muty sympathizer spotted
Because god forbid people have an opinion.
i am disapointed by the knight Titus. No Fallout game had ever had such a whinning knight, or am i mistaken?
I got the impression, the tv chapter lacks dicipline.
What is your impression?
@veranicus6060 true! But I guess we will find out what's going on in the brotherhood in the next season! Seems kinda like it may be rocky within the ranks, considering the elder said he wanted to start a new brotherhood
@veranicus6060 The TV chapter did seem to be dropping the ball with its initiates. They were uncontrolled and ignorant of their own history. Titus I can forgive as an isolated case of an older Knight that has grown jaded over time. The brotherhood are still human after all. Maximus still remains the biggest disappointment; ignorance I can forgive, but the way he is rewarded without merit annoys me to no end.
As I would Interpret it, the Minute Men ending was the true ending, but the Vault 111 survivor, who remembers the prewar era, is helping Elder Maxon make the brotherhood better, more benevolent. And the Show's elder who's taking orders doesn't like the change and wants to keep the power for himself. That's why the Prydwen is on the west coast. Elder Maxon and the Survivor are there now to change the west coast and the current leader isn't having it.
The BoS is fascinating because there descendants of pre war army veterans which parallels/contrast the enclave.
At the beginning of the video you describe how the brotherhood started and it is interesting to think that's the sole survivor and The ghoul would have been highly likely to join this army, both power armor trained American vets with new families, if the brotherhood had more time before the bombs dropped they could have reached a lot of people