Pony (washed out) looking videos on YouTube? - Fixed.
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
- If you’re using a Mac and uploading videos to UA-cam, you’ve probably come across the problem of gamma shift or “washed out” images. When I switched to DaVinci Resolve, the problem got noticeably worse for me. I needed to find a simple solution that didn’t ruin my normal workflow. This is it.
Hope it helps.
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It's great to see you posting more lately.... I've missed you!
I missed you too!
The whole world of colour space, gamma and range in modern video production is one giant mess. I can imagine how long it took you to test what works and what doesn't... so hats off to you for doing that, and for going to the trouble of sharing it.
It took me ages to figure out the webcam output of my Blackmagic Atem was kicking out a full range instead of the more normal partial range signal, screwing up the black level. Couple that with inconsistencies elsewhere in the chain and it was like playing whack-a-mole with settings everywhere. :)
Glad to see your back :). Loved the ending.
Thanks for the lovely comment... and you're spot on... whack-a-mole is a good way of describing colour management! 😂
(I didn't realise the ATEM was pumping out data levels... I presume that's only from the web cam USB?)
@@extrashot yeah, I was just referring to the USB web cam output on the Atem 🙂
I'm sorry for your loss🤣
I haven’t heard the word Pony used in that context for years! Brilliant!
... I wondered if it would only be Cockneys who got that! 👍
@@extrashot guilty as charged! Born in Plaistow dragged up in East Ham.
Masterfully resolving a complicated topic with a fine touch of british humor , you sir deserve a new sub ! I just wish more youtube content creators watched this video , cause even to this day you get big photography/videography related channels push washed out videos on UA-cam ( yes im looking at you Tony Northrop ) .
*British humour.
Thanks for this tip, now that I am working on a Mac I will save this video to my favorites.
Hey Dave, good to hear from you and thanks for the comment. Hope you're well and doing okay.
@@extrashot I'm doing great, thanks for asking. I should do a new video, not sure on what but I should do one.
DAVE we need you back!
This has been the recommended solution for years, for Mac users. In fact, the Rec709-A setting in Resolve was added specifically, to address this issue.
I don't remember the exact explanation why this is necessary, but it has something to do with Apple inventing their own standards of what Rec. 709 should be. In other words, the Rec. 709-A was supposed to be a temporary solution, until Apple fixed the issue, but we all know how Apple works.
Hi @akyhne, I can't remember when 709-A was added to Resolve... but the problem I had, when grading for the 709-A output, was that the scopes and the image wouldn't be what you wanted in Quicktime or for delivery to the client. If you grade for 709-A and then convert to a vanilla 709 gamma 2.4 output, it rarely looks the same?
ua-cam.com/video/8geDbNpH5cI/v-deo.html&pp=ygUdZGFycmVuIG1vc3R5biBjb2xvciB0cmFuc2Zvcm0%3D
ua-cam.com/video/CtSBVKmHkjU/v-deo.html&pp=ygUdZGFycmVuIG1vc3R5biBjb2xvciB0cmFuc2Zvcm0%3D
ua-cam.com/video/c4AVwVdKTHc/v-deo.html&pp=ygUdZGFycmVuIG1vc3R5biBjb2xvciB0cmFuc2Zvcm0%3D
ua-cam.com/video/dxL7tclBlnY/v-deo.html&pp=ygUdZGFycmVuIG1vc3R5biBjb2xvciB0cmFuc2Zvcm0%3D
Thanks for the info... hope all is well. Good to have you back online!
Thank you, and good to hear from you too!
The color space settings can be easily changed by right clicking the timeline in the media browser and choosing Timeline / Timeline settings - a window will open and you can uncheck "Use Project Settings" and change the same parameters you did when make a duplicate.
A few things - everyone should try to calibrate their displays as best they can. It doesn't matter if you are grading for Netflix etc. Simply put if you are looking and making decisions on a monitor that's not calibrated and your monitor is too blue - so you add yellow. The next person that has a monitor that is too yellow with then be multiplied and the image will look like urine. Consider the target like the bullseye on a dart board - your decisions are on target, then all the monitors out there that are trying to hit the target will be off in different directions. Best to have them relative to the calibrated reference.
And while you were mentioning LUTs to compensate - Adding the rec709-a into the output is doing the same thing. It's baking it in. And when you bake it in for your Mac - you are baking it in for PCs to which it wasn't needed in the first place - So although your title is "Fixed", it's only fixed on the Mac.
But, there is not really a fix for this - just band-aids like the Adobe LUT and the way you figured out. The problem is Colorsync and it has tow problems, the one that you almost explained and a smaller problem but not fixable.
The 1-2-1 under NCLC tagging , the second number is the display transfer ( gamma ) that you are sending to the display to tell it what gamma to add to the inverse function for the display to use ( back to linear ). Unfortunately there is no display transfer for rec709-2.4 ( BT18886 standards ) and the tag number 2 in the NCLC is "undefined" - so an Apple colorsync reading will just inverse the predetermined camera gamma ( to which Apple is applying 1.96 and subsequently, the rest of the world is applying 2.2 )
Because of the math involved - you will never get a true gamma 2.4 for uploading to youTube. youTube is color managed as well.
If people work and most of their videos are going to youTube - it's a better idea to grade with some lights on and a screen set and calibrated to gamma 2.2 - A consistent gamma throughout all decision making and environmental ( lighting in the room ) and tagging will get the best results.
But unless you are an engineer who can change how Colorsync works - there is no actual fix for the scenario you are describing.
Hi Jim, Thank you for the comprehensive comment and useful info, very helpful. I didn’t realise you could change the settings on an individual timeline in the browser without effecting the project. That is quicker. I think I’d still like to duplicate the timeline first, just to keep it separate from my master… I know I’d forget to switch back to the project settings once the UA-cam version was uploading!
When you point out that baking in 709-A will only look right on a Mac (not on a PC), I totally understand, which is why I was keeping the 709 G2.4 for normal file distribution to clients etc… but are you saying that the 709-A UA-cam upload looks wrong on PC’s? (Ie. too dark or contrasty). When I checked on a friends PC it was looking correct?
The tags issue is really confusing me. I get that tag number 2 is undefined with G2.4, but I’m not sure what UA-cam will then convert it to on upload? They say they will assume standard 709 but that doesn’t look the same as G2.2… but then, I’m watching on a Mac !!!
On a Mac:
1) G2.4 output will tag the file as 1.2.1, QuickTime plays that file back with the desired gamma but UA-cam lifts it on conversion (so it’s washed out).
2) 709-A output will tag the file as 1.1.1 and drops the gamma on the scopes, which Quicktime still plays back with the desired look. But this time, when UA-cam lifts the gamma on conversion, it also ends up looking correct online.
3) If I render a G2.4 file but change the output tags to 1.1.1, UA-cam still lifts the gamma so it’s washed out online. This time, Quicktime also lifts the gamma so that’s also washed out.
You can see why I’m getting confused… it’s like color sync and UA-cam are fighting each other!
Man, would love to hear this ASMR voice in a documentary as a voice-over. Also what's that A7Siv, are you teasing us?
😂 not sure about that!
Thanks 🙏 for sharing, I've seen several approaches to the washed-out color problem ⚠️ and yours is simple. This is one thing Davinci Resolve is too complex for starters, even if they did video editing with FCP or Premiere for years. But we all learn new things every Resolve day 😂🎉
I suppose REC709-A is Resolve's effort to make it simple for UA-cam (on a Mac) but I'm still confused !!!
Dear Sir, your videos are great, entertaining and educational at the same time. And I love your special sense of humor. Please accept my most sincere thanks!
... And thank you Sir. Your kind words are greatly appreciated and make it worthwhile! Take care.
Next video will be a review of the ligo detector which can pick up the faint distortions of spacetime supernovae are producing
Have you got one I can borrow? 😂
This is THE best solution!
Thanks ❤
Thank you... hope it helps. 👍
Best Kanal on UA-cam
i use a crt monitor ~ NEC - AccuSync 70 - Real Cool Crisp Movie Videos...only way to watch with glasses
Wow... it's a while since I've seen a CRT. !!!
Thanks a lot for sharing!
Pleasure.
Really Good information and useful from your video. Keep going…💪👍
Thank you.
a7Siv review 😂
😂
Awesome! Is there a Premiere Pro workflow that solves this issue also?
I couldn't get on with Premier Pro... went straight from FCPX to Resolve, which is why I can't answer!
Excellent video as ever, very informative and oddly reassuring to know that even users with your level of experience have problems with colour management. Can anyone point me towards any reading material on the different Variants of Rec 709, Rec 709-A Rec 709 (scene)? Also I still don't understand the difference between video level and data level.I mean I can see there is a difference in the scopes but which setting is preferable in resolve and why ?
Hi Micky, Personally, I let Resolve choose between data and video levels by leaving it in auto! Resolve will always be using full data levels internally, no matter what output you choose. Traditionally, data (or full) levels was useful for web, graphics, RGB input, while video levels was used for TV YUV broadcast etc. You'd think that, now we're all shooting RAW, RGB and editing on computers, full data range would have taken over. In fact, the vast majority of video codecs and delivery formats are still designed for video level. It's easy to see when your software can't cope with 'super blacks' or 'super whites' as the scopes won't reach 0-100%.
Seriously, Resolve does a good job at sorting it all out for you, and it's not as if one is going to give you a better picture than the other! Take care.
Thanks really appreciate you took the time to reply @@extrashot
Simpler solution, export h.264 in default settings and change tags to rec709-a and sRGB.
Hi matteimages, I did look at that. In my tests, sRGB didn't give exactly the same image. It's close, but almost like a little too much contrast and saturation compared to a REC709-A render. From the specs, it looks like UA-cam will convert sRGB tags to REC709 anyway? I saw someone produced an sRGB to 709-A LUT, but that sounds even more complicated to me.
@@extrashot My mistake, it's rec709 (not rec709-A) and sRGB. The reason for the sRGB is to correct the gamma tag so that Quicktime will play it back correctly. The other thing to note about this that your image will look the same as a grading monitor going through an IO device. if you are using your mac display as your reference, this become a bit trickier and your method then works better. That said, it's subtle but I noticed that, even with your settings, there is a slight gamma shift. It looks like the highlights are lowered slightly. In any case your solution is an easy one and will get people 95% accurate to their inteded grade, which is more than close enough for sociak media ;)
"Promo SM" 😒
With all the power of resolve , this is its biggest downfall. Don't have that problem in FCPX , Resolve really needs to fix this issue once and for all. No point having all that colour grading power if the export looks like a turd. 💩💩💩
It feels like apple color sync and UA-cam are fighting... which is why FCPX wins this battle!
You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. Hundred million dollar movies are colored corrected or color enhanced using resolve… Nobody in the real world uses Final Cut Pro for color correcting.