This is quickly becoming my favorite car talk show. The chemistry and car nerdiness of Jason and Derek play beautifully with their differing personalities. Loving it. And yeah, the new RS6 Avant is sex on wheels. Too bad the people that would buy them will never be able to afford them.. If I had the money, I"d drive it every day and twice on Sunday
Seriously? VW killed off the alltrack after what? 3 years and the US won't be getting a Sportwagen in the MK8 platform. Buick TourX is being discontinued after 2020. We lost the 3 series wagon. All affordable options that no one bought and being replaced by cross overs.
They still have to make money off of them - and, because volumes are inherently extremely low, their margins are nonexistent, which is why MSRP has to be much higher. This is why it's an industry wide problem, they aren't all just "making the same dumb choices", if only these intelligent people really were THAT inept
@@audisportracer being "affordable" is completely different than the point he was making of the wagons being "unbuyable". They may have been affordable, but the lack of features the car was equipped with made the cars "unbuyable" at their price point.
I would never buy anything but a wagon, or a hatchback. No sedan for me. And never ever an SUV. Case in point: the Mercedes CLA looks soooo much better as a wagon (shooting brake, as they call it) than a sedan.
I had a 2015.5 Volvo V60 Polestar. I remember one day taking it to the track, passing a few Porsches, then hitting the grocery store and Home Depot on the way home.
@@robl7532 well, I think you missed the most beautiful of them all, the 1800ES. no matter if you hate Volvos and only want to ride bikes will you most probably think that it is a beautiful car.
I am SICK. TO. DEATH. of Crossovers and SUVs clogging up the horizon. A pretty rare event happened a few weeks ago. I pulled into a double left-turn lane to wait at the light, interstate on-ramp. I pulled up behind a small sedan..... in my small sedan. In a few moments, several other small sedans pulled in a surrounded me, all waiting for the light. It was remarkable how I could see everywhere without obstructed view, yet everyone was in perfectly adequate vehicles getting where they needed to go. No one needs to sit up high because if you're driving a small sedan, you don't have your view blocked. You also handle better, feel the road surface, experience a dynamically better ride without the need to be distracted by stupid tech. It felt like a moment in time, a small slice of 10 years ago. And yes, I drive a manual 5 speed 170 horsepower 4-banger. CUV's don't offer more space than the sedans they replaced with the same number of seats. They offer a bit more headroom, but at what cost? And at the loss of real driving dynamics? No thanks.
@@G_G_G_G_ What kind of small sedan? A Civic? Corolla? Yaris? Perhaps for you a good middle ground would be a more premium compact like maybe a BMW 2-series, Audi A3, or Mercedes CLA. Those would feel a lot more substantial then a typical economy car while still being nimble and returning good fuel economy. I can’t argue with what feels better to you, but to me I just don’t like vehicles that are larger than what I need. Even when I drove a 2010 Ford Taurus for a few months, even though it’s still a sedan, it just felt massive and needlessly ponderous.
@@nowiecoche I stroked a check for a less-than-7k mile one year old 2015 Focus sedan. Had the updated body style, had the reliable manual transmission, had the winter package with heated seats/steering, had enough tech without being ridiculous. Swapped in a larger rear sway bar to stabilize the car and reduce understeer. Popped a CAI under the hood and a cat-back Magnaflow. Picked up about 12-15 horsepower and some sound. It's been stone cold reliable, gets 43 mpg on the interstate with 3 adults in it, running a/c. It's entertaining enough not to get boring. The Focus always rode and steered pretty confidently, feeling stable and solid well over 100 mph if you want to. But it's serving my needs right now. Is this how I judge other cars? Absolutely not. I'm much more rounded, informed, but I'm also practical. I'll buy my RWD sports car at some point but right now with a scumbag in the office of US president and the financial future of all of us hanging by a Federal reserve thread, I'm not leaving my 30+ mpg reliable car to some 16 mpg V8 giant snoozefest road-numb box. Safety is just as much the ability to punch it and zip out of the way, as it is having a barge to crush everything smaller and lighter than I am. This big barge mentality is the reason roads are so congested and no on can see anything unless they're sitting up at Freightliner eye-level. Didn't have trouble seeing anything back in the 90's when people drove actual cars. People buy something they believe will do EVERYTHING they could possibly imagine themselves ever doing. You do not need to buy for EVERY possible situation. All you end up with is a boring box that is so heavily compromised you'll lose all the joy of driving. Every time you go for a drive will be a big event, like taking a ship out of the harbor. You don't need to buy for ultimate utility. Buy for FUN. Buy for EXCITEMENT. Buy something that YOU can drive, rather than IT driving YOU.
I despise crossovers and suvs I don't really like wagons either, but tolerate them much MUCH more, and brands are coming up with some amazing designs no more do they look like hearses
I always thought Europe has the wagons, US has the suvs and thought everyone was happy with what they got, apparently from the comments, the latter is not the case
@@easycheddy I love my Magnum, a big cam and a tune for a little more punch and an aggressive exhaust for an aggressive sound to match...my only complaint is that it wasn't available with a 6spd. The stock Mercedes 5spd slushbox is depressing.
Don't forget in 05 at Subaru you could get a Wagon WRX, a Legacy GT (turbo) wagon with a manual, or a Outback XT (turbo) manual wagon... Not to mention a Forester XT turbo manual and Baja turbo manual :(
FacePwn64 the current Outback seems to be freakin everywhere. It’s amazing to me given that America supposedly hates wagons. Subaru has a great marketing department apparently.
As a college student, my first car that I’ve ever bought with my own money is a BMW 328i wagon (E91). This video totally nails it in that as a younger buyer I don’t want a giant marshmallow of an suv and I’ve began to notice that trend is starting to become more prominent
I went to buy a Volvo V60 T6 AWD only to find it was a one year only car, and no longer available. To get AWD, you need to buy a Crossallroadtrekback (or what ever they call it) with raised ride height and gross plastic cladding. The only other option is V60 T5 FWD. You guys are so right about product planners not understanding what wagon enthusiasts want. Great video.
I’m here for the wagon talk! CTS-V, V70, V90, Outbacks (just traded), E55 (My Lord), Saab 9-3 Wagon??? Not sure but it think that did exist but RS6 is definitely a buy for me if I was jonesing for a wagon.
There's something interesting about automatic transmissions in Europe until the mid 2000's the mindset was that aromatics were only for people who didn't know how to drive and for who wanted to waste money on fixing them...
I kind of hate SUV's, especially small SUV's and "crossovers". They are just bad. When I went to buy a family car I ended up going with a minivan because it actually is way more "utility" than a "sport utility". More seating, more cargo room, easier to get in and out of. It just made more sense. If I'm going to buy an SUV I'm going to buy a full size, actual SUV, not these small bastardized things people call SUVs these days.
@Sean Cotlier I purchased a 2017 new Ford focus RS. Got it for $9000 under msrp due to the head gasket issue. They fixed it before I took delivery under warranty. Most fun car I've ever owned. Also, it is literally selling for the same price I bought it for
Cars are big-ticket items, and most people only have one for themselves. You give me the option of two cars with the same power, but one is a low-slung coupé with style and the other is a lifted CUV that is more useful across a broader set of use-cases, and then tell me that the difference in price is only around $2,000...in favor of the SUV...and guess which one I'm going to have a hard time justifying? The bottom line is that auto-makers do not actually want to sell these things, because to actually do so would require destroying the illusion they have perpetuated for decades that performance costs money. They aren't offering the smaller cars as a real alternative to the lifted boxes which have 90% of the handling and 100% of the power and 150% the utility for effectively the same price. Case-in-point: Audi TT. There is no reason that car should have a $12,000 premium over the S3 and RS3 given that the mechanicals are nigh-identical, but here we are! Audi TT going out the door because not enough people were stupid enough to spend Porsche money on a tarted-up super-Golf. Combine with the fact that the used market is oversaturated with phenomenally well-optioned and reliable options for any make and model, and It's the entire small-car market in a nutshell.
I bought a 2019 VW golf Sportwagon, 6 speed manual with 4 motion. Love it. My biggest complaint was I couldn't have a manual transmission in a higher than base trim level. Why VW?? Also, my previous car was an 03 tdi Jetta wagon with a 5 speed manual. Best car I've ever owned. Got 412,000 miles out of it.
I can’t figure out what the planners at VW are thinking. In a lot of ways they do the opposite of what Americans want with a car. Now is the time for a well equipped wagon VW!!! SUV’s are not cool VW!!!
@@JasonCammisa Don't think that we're spoiled. I for one appreciate you doing this type of content, dude. Been missing it since you've left MT. Now, between Issimi and your IG reviews, we're all set. Keep it up!
JasonCammisa Don’t do it, this amount of content is pretty perfect. Longer episodes, less frequently posted and higher quality, super-hot co-host...perfect.
I remember when the Dodge Magnum wagon was the hot thing back in the early 2000's, Dodge put a Hemi V8 in the RT and SRT-8 models, the top engine was 425 HP. They kind of went away in popularity in the 2010's, but that was America's big beefy wagon craze. I guess the big car crash after the 2008 recession kind of ruined the Magnum's reign, otherwise we might have seen a Magnum Hellcat in the 2010's.
So, I'm not done watching yet, but how the holy fuck have you not mentioned the 04-07 Volvo V70R!?!?!? Seriously, AWD, 6sp manual, adaptive suspension, and all the other goodies you mentioned. Also gorgeous and sounds great.
@@ISSIMIOfficial please, cause I'm damn near stroking out over here. lol. '95 850 T5R?, 98-99 V70T5 manual, 98-00 V70R, All the Saab Vigens and Aeros etc.... Cast the net wider than Germany.
I love the RS6 I want one in Sonoma green with black rims and green calipers. SUV'S are not my cup of tea. My wife has had 3 7 or 8 seaters so far. They work for road trips and going to my family that lives in the mountainous country but that's it. Otherwise a Wagon is better in almost every way.
I would kill for BMW or MB or Audi to bring to the USA: 1) A3 Sportback TFSI e with Quattro 2) M135iX Hatch (would love a 135eX... but one thing at a time) 3) Mercedes-AMG A 35 4Matic Hatch (or the CLA Shooting Brake, which looks phenomenal)
As a European, i'd argue that we prefer to drive manual gears because they are more engaging and interesting to drive and that we don't opt for them because they are cheaper, Auto gearboxes are just boring. Plus, we have a lot less long distance driving than in the US and especially in the UK and Ireland, we have a lot more minor roads, with more twisty and undulating sections, which is where a Manual Gearbox comes into it's own
+1. .. Caught the show only recently. .. Thoroughly enjoy discussions with folks who leave their ego's at the door. .. Subscribed. .. The wagon discussion dredges up fond wagon memories. .. Returning from a Germany trip I'd head straight to the Audi dealer buying a new `95.5 UrS6 wagon. .. Silver metallic over gorgeous black leather Recaro seating. .. My 1 of 433 S6 wagons had the one and only available option, a Motorola phone with a console nested handset. . .. Those were the days! .. Several Euro RS2 engine enhancements, Porsche 993 Big Reds, lowering Euro S6 Audi springs & dampers, Euro Audi HID's w/levelers, and a sport exhaust made for a sportive sleeper wagon. .. All the while our stock appearing UrS6 Avant became a daily driver of 10 years. .. I could kick myself in the arse for selling to a fellow Audi S Club member. .. The UrS6 Avant (Uber ski wagon) was a special car.
venomspeak - I started with a 323i E46 touring (2000 only in the US) and swapped the engine, trans, subframes and other M3 related parts into the touring. The convertible was sold for scrap after I harvested everything I needed for it. The CSL box video I did was the touring as well as one other. I’ll try and make a more in depth video of the finished car here soon.
We love wagons here in canada.. I just went shopping in my volvo cross-country and parked next to a subaru outback and corolla wagon and then a focus wagon parked beside me... four wagons in a row.. mostly SUVs around though... boo.
More Canada wagon love: even the newest gen golf sportwagen/alltrack still had a 50% take rate for the manual transmission in Canada! Sad that we might not get that car here anymore because it wouldn't make sense for VW to ship it to NA if Americans don't buy them.
@@saturndesigns2339 my 2002 volvo v70 xc Ocean race edition might be one of the rarest around with only 100 that came to canada! By chance I pulled up to another one at an intersection and chatted with the owner quick.. what are the odds of that happening?? I got to drive an Audi S4 avant manual V8 model once.. what a blast!
Manual is better to slow down in snow and ice is a big reason I preferred them. I’m wondering if we’ll get a wagon from Tesla - they don’t seem to care too much what consumers want and already have an SUV...I’d prefer an e-wagon over our 3.
Great show as usual. Thanks, guys! Apart from other wagons already mentioned in the comments (Volvos, Saabs, CTS-V, etc.) we did have in Europe a nice version of the mid 2000's Legacy wagon called Spec-B, which had the flat 6 engine combined with a sporty suspension and diff and gearbox from the Impreza WRX (if I remember correctly), probably aiming at stealing some E46 330i customers from BMW, and which resulted a nice, understated enthusiasts car, but they are rather rare nowadays and usually sell in hours when one shows up. My last wagon was a Saab 9-5 Aero (the one with the 'glasses'); nice car but not really sporty
I miss my 850 Turbo wagon. Was a great car, fun to drive, quick, comfy and pretty good mileage. Hope to get back into a wagon again. Problem is there aren't many, and they're pricey. I do look at used BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Volvo wagons all the time. Maybe some day.
As someone with a moderate income who likes wagons, when I finally part with my 91 Accord wagon with manual trans, the manual Civic hatch seems like the closest thing to the wagon I want.
@@questioner1596 Yes I know. I've also never seen one here in Austria with an Austrian plate but now I regularly see a black Civic wagon with a Slovakian license plate parked next to a construction site. The Eastern Europeans now get better vehicles than us. We get fucking VW while they get all kinds of Japanese and Korean cars. I also recently saw a freaking Kia K9 here, also with an Eastern European plate.
I currently have a 2019 Skoda Superb Wagon with AWD and the engine from the Golf R in a slightly detuned guise, making about 270PS. I can only own one car, and I am convinced that this is the best single car on the European market considering price, utility, interior space, ride, power, looks... is it a switchblade sporty handler? No, but the thing flies down the Autobahn with four adults, a dog, and everybody's luggage as well as anything I've ever driven. Just a wonderful place to spend time with an insane amount of passenger room, and that's before you lay the back seats down.
In regards to 5 cylinder vehicles, you guys in the US really missed out on the Ford Focus ST and RS models with the volvo 5 cyl 2.5 Turbo engines, it is an absolute symphony every time you hear it.
I literally have one of those dual rear wiper Camry Wagons on my street - if Tam HYPHEN Scott wants to give up his AAN factory equipped wagon Jason can put us in touch.
My wife and I updated our garage this year with two wagons. First, they were better to drive than the comparably priced SUVs we tested. And, second, principle. Period. We're nearly a year in and we love our 2019 E450 and 2019 Mazda 3 Hatch (basically a small wagon, yes?).
I dig wagons down here in Texas! My CTS-V was my daily driver for 60K miles! 850 hp on E85 Flex Fuel was an absolute riot every day. Jason is clearly partial to the Germans and that's okay - but I agree if youre going to mention wagons CTS-V deserves a remote mention at the least as an american rarity.
Hottest wagon of all time is the early 70’s Olds Vista Cruiser. That rear roof with all the sunroofs was awesome! If i can comment about EV’s. They’ll make a small dent in sales compared to Internal Combustion engine. But will never be the sole type of vehicle. What about people living in apartments? Those that park on the streets in cities? What about the fact that our electric grids cannot handle millions of cars charging each night.
I loved my '88 Honda Civic AWD wagon with the CRX 1.6 and 6-speed manual. I got 250,000 miles out of it. It had that special something that made me love it every time I got behind the wheel. I still want an E39 Touring with a manual. I really wanted an A6 Allroad but my mechanic told me that I would just put his kid through college with it.
At 25:36 about 10 years ago, I owned a Dark grey/Black Audi S4 C4 avant. It had a chip, so instead of 230hp, it had 273hp, and 415NM... Damn I loved that car.. Still got pictures from it. Before that I had a non turbo quattro coupé 1986 in champagne metal (they are very expensive today- an more rare than the UR-quattro)... I loved that car- still do... After that I had a Dark grey/Black A4 B5 avant quattro with almost all the options, and with a full RS4 cabin from a RS4 B5. Fully adjustable with heated seats ect.. Now I have a light blue manuel A6 2.4 V6 quattro avant (pretty rare model here in Denmark btw)... Great Channel😃✌🏻🌍🇺🇸🚗🏎🛻🇩🇰
5:10 We actually never got the F31 in a manual here, diesel or otherwise. Only offered with the ZF 8HP. Sad, but the E91 328i is just so good I don't really feel like I missed much personally.
I'm an auto detailer in New Zealand, where we've had Subaru Legacy turbos since 1989, and those Audi wagons sell, man! The company I work for does the cars for the local Audi dealership so we get to drive them often. Not only are they comfy and well-spec'd, but even the non-RS models are effortlessly quick. I'm also pretty sure the Golf R Wagon sold out here before any of them actually landed in-country.
Best combination of current estates (cough) / wagons would be: -Volvo V60 R design for shell / body / looks. 😎 -The lovely V8 engine from the Mercedes E63.😍 -The manual gearbox from the Ford Focus ST.💙 -The drivetrain from the Audi RS6.👌🏻
I llike the bit where they say that if you drive a Diesel Manual Wagon you are their hero. Well I now drive a 2015 Ford Focus estate with a manual shifter and 105 Hp... am I hero material ? I assume not, but this was the best value for the money that I had at the time and I really love my car (I can fit a whole bicycle in the back with zero effort).
I absolutely love my '12 VW Sportwagon. It has the 2.5 w/ an IE ECM tune, a GTI suspension and brakes, chassis bracing and 18" Eagle F1 tires. Looks great, has the handling and quickness of a stock GTI of that era but w/ that 5 cyl. sound. Wish it had a 6 speed manual (alas it's tiptronic) but other than that it's a terrifically practical yet fun car that doesn't look like everything else on the road.
As the owner of a CTS-V wagon and previously two Magnum SRT8's, I'm kind of disappointed neither was mentioned in this segment. Neither may be made any more, which is a shame, but both are some of the coolest late model American wagons made in decades. And to Jason's point, I would have considered a TSX wagon for my wife, especially if they made in a Type-S variant, but the fact that Honda/Acura didn't even offer it with the V6 I had to bail. The manufacturers are setting the 5 doors up to fail. As a wagon enthusiast I am hoping this trend is on it's way out. To be determined...
Might have been different if you guys had got the Volvo V70 D5 back in the 00's. A fantastic all round wagon. They pulled like a train, were well specced and very comfortable. They're everywhere in Europe.
I got my 2019 Great Falls Green VW Alltrack 6 spd. manual right as VW was phasing them out and I absolutely LOVE that wagon! Much more than my wife's 2019 VW Tiguan. I wish VW would continue to bring them here to our shores but until the SUV/CUV craze dies down, I doubt that will happen anytime soon. I guess I am going to try and nurse that Alltrack along for as long as possible.
I have owned from new a 2000 A6 Quattro wagon with the 2.8 VR6 engine (30V). It has been the best car I have owned (living in South Africa I was able to set the cruise control at 200km/h and drive for 3 hours, refill the tank and repeat). Still own it but it is now slipped to No 2 as I bought my 40 year dream, and 4 years ago bought a new 991.2 C2. I like the lightly turbo engine in it as I used to drive up to altitude in Jo’burg 2000m high and 1500km away, each month). Hate SUV’s with a passion, but did have an old diesel Gwagom on a farm in the UK which completed 500,000 abused miles, and was still running when I left there!
Dang, you guys are my spirit animals. I owned 5-speed '88 E30 touring, daily a lowered B8.5 Audi allroad, have drooled over Sciroccos (and Corrados!) since forever and have my eye on a 2022 Volvo V60 (they're still available here in Canada!). Plus I thought I was the only person to ever appreciate the Camry wagon's dual rear wipers. Rock stars.
Another reason why wagons don't sell here in the states is because wagon buyers are intelligent buyers & know buying a new car is a bad investment & they would much rather buy a car two years old. Manufacturers like BMW also made it easy on us by never putting there more powerful engine in a wagon with RW drive. I own bmw 07 328i manual & 09 V8 Vantage. Thinking about selling both to get the RS6 Avant
My parents had a 5 speed N/A Audi 5000 from 1985 to 2004. Thing ran like a top the entire time. Never had major issues with it. Neighbor had an 86 turbo auto that caught fire in the front driveway in the middle of the night.
I wonder...did the US get the E61 M5 Touring? They are quite rare here and the V10 cars never got sold as manuals in Europe, so a manual US e61 M5 would be a goldmine of an investment.
The sad fact is that crossovers and SUVs have taken over Europe as well which means wagons may become a rarity on this side of the pond too until they disappear altogether.
When it’s time to replace my Focus ST, I’ll definitely buy a brand new wagon. As long as there’s a non-lifted, sporty, manual transmission, and somewhat quick option available for less than $30,000. Currently though, it seems like basically every wagon on the market is worse than a sporty CUV in just about every metric. It makes no sense to me why i would buy something like an Golf Wagon when something like the new 2020 Escape 2.0L seems to beat it in just about every way and really doesn’t handle that much worse in stock configuration. Now if they sold a Golf R wagon, that would be the choice 100%.
Absolutely nada to do with wagons, but when they talked about broken down cars.... I just gotta say, my Mclaren 12C blew a coolant hose or some such today on Angeles Crest Hwy (no freaking cell service up there) and almost left me stranded (with no freaking cell service and I forgot how to use my Garmin InReach satellite text function to connect with someone able to come rescue me. I done bought that just for this contingency and forgot how to use it!) Other motorists tried what they could to help (thanks fellas!), gave me water to add in the radiator, offered to drive down to civilization and get me help, but I eventually limped down to where Verizon began to care... Thanks fellas, there is hope for humanity yet. The point here, is that uptil the car overheated, it wa absolutely nivana. Don't get that tingle from my F90 M5 or 997 turbo or 991.2 TS
I am 100% the target market for these wagons. I couldn't find one so I had to settle for a 19' BMW 340i GT. Closest thing to a fun wagon I can find without breaking the bank.
Im suprised yall never mentioned the Magnum SRT8 and the Cadillac CTSV Wagon. Those were Americas last sporty wagons n they were great, especially the CTSV.
I absolutely LOVE how the new Buick Regal wagon looks. I'm sad that they haven't depreciated savagely because I want one. That car in 2WD with a stick would be so amazing.
Same!! 1st time I saw one, I thought "that's a Euro car. How did Buick get away with that?!" I then found out it's because it's a rebadged Opel Insignia & it made a lot more sense.
Yes, but I was test driving a used 1 owner Mercedes-Wagon dealer maintained and there was a waiting line for a test drive. It sold for 2-3 x what a sedan would cost. So there is still plenty of car enthusiasts who feel special about wagons. High power wagons are my favorites. The challenge is to find one that was well maintained. When you do you won the lottery so don't hesitate.
Jason you're wrong; your wagon is superior to Derek's. I saw you driving it once on highway 37 in the North Bay and couldn't not stare. It's just f*cking awesome
Finally had the money to buy a manual AWD wagon. Bought a 19 Alltrack. Love it. And of course it went out of production. I'm 30. A friend of mine just bought an Allroad, same age. Wagons are hot to my generation, we just needed to become adults first.
+1. .. Good discussion; wagons. . Question? The 2020 Subaru Outback 2.4l Turbo, is the Outback a wagon or SUV. . OB ground clearance is in the 9-inch + neighborhood. . The 2.4l turbo four is good for 265PS and 260ft torque running through Subaru's all-wheel-drive scheme. ..
I especially loved this episode as a happy owner of Audi A4 B8 Avant with 3,2 FSI and manual :) I have made the mistake of owning a SUV/Crossover (Subaru XV) in the past, and never ever again!
Very sad with the current state of automobiles. Unless you are rich, you really have nothing but suvs. Give me a rwd wagon with no cladding, that's under $40k and you can get my money. Absolutely love this show. Great work
This is such a great video. Individual car enthusiasts may be able to buy 1 or three cars that they like, but they do not have the power to make wagons good, affordable, and can't convince the general public to buy them the way a manufacturer or dealership can, let alone change industry trends. I can't do anything when the only wagons left are the subaru outback, $50k volvos and $100k german luxury yachts.
I own a 2017 VW Alltrack, top of the line SEL model. Got it for only 28K brand new when the list price was 35K at the time. Love this CAR!!!!! Looks great, drives better than my 2018 GTI and loaded with a lot of tech and amenities +panoramic sunroof. If you can live with some of its (minor) reliability issues, there is not a better all-arounder car for the money. I will keep it forever or until the engine dies, which should probably happen right around the 130K mark if history proves true. Still, $130K for an A6 wagon? I can only dream.
I think that one important detail that is missing in discussions like these is that the people who make up the group "enthusiasts" are ever-changing. For example, there are enthusiasts from the hot rod era, the 90s-era Japanese tuners, and current-day enthusiasts - to which group should the auto manufacturers cater to? The reality is that enthusiasts expect consistency from companies that are also expected to innovate and push the envelope by new customers and their shareholders. It's impossible to build cars that please everyone, and the fact that even enthusiasts don't agree unanimously on what the perfect car is should paint a better understanding as to why car manufacturers build cars to please the next person, not the buyer of yesterday.
List your top 5 favorite wagons that have gone extinct, Here’s mine: 5) Volvo V60 Polestar 4) Toyota Tercel 4x4 3) Cadillac CTS-V 2) Lexus IS300 Sportwagon 1) Subaru WRX/STi
There's only one wagon in recent years that I wish was still in production, and it's not on your list. The Dodge Magnum, if that car continued on and got the 2nd gen update that the 300 got with all the same options, I'd own one right now instead of a 300.
@@brodiwheeler7583 They did make an SRT8 version back when they were in production. 6.1L 425 HP, they're all over used. Of what they did make I'd be after the R/T(5.7) AWD, those are actually harder to come by then the SRT8. However everything about the 2nd gen update is just SOOO much better in the LX platform cars. They stopped Magnum production in 2008, but in 2009 they introduced the upgraded Eagle Hemi and the MUCH better AWD system. Then there's the 2011 face lift and interior redesign, much better then before, nicer with far more options/features. To really be happy with one I'd have to combine a 2nd gen 300C and a Magnum into one car. That'd be awesome but too much work and expense. Maybe if my 300C was to get rear ended I'd find a shop that could graph on the rear roof/hatch section of a Magnum, that's about the only piratical path I can think of to having one.
snek Siiick, I never knew they had a 5.7 AWD. What a Legend! Frankenstein that 300C if you get the chance, but don’t get hurt trying to get rear ended to do it. Maybe Wagons will come back into favor again someday. If they do, I would count on Dodge to build a sick one since they have definitely established themselves as a brand that ain’t scared to build Fun stuff.
@@brodiwheeler7583 Thanks, FWIW my 300C is also a special edition, the John Varvatos Luxury edition and has every option available even the block heater. This version of the 300 was only made for one year.
1000%. My wife and I were shopping for a new car not too long ago, and I had my heart set on the A4 Allroad. Eventually, after looking and negotiating, we got an X3 M40i for the same price we'd have had to pay for a mid-equipped A4 Allroad. I was ready to get the Allroad, but I just got so much more vehicle for the same money that I couldn't justify the wagon... I do think EVs will push a variant of the wagon back into the mix, as the packaging flexibility allowed by EV power trains and batteries will push down the center of gravity and roofline of crossover-derived EVs without sacrificing interior volume.
The E63 wagon has always been my dream car, that when I win the lottery, that would be my first purchase, but now I dream of the RS6 🤤 Ohmygosh yes please! I could afford the A6, but the styling on the RS6 is amazing. I love a wagon, still driving my 300TE 😁
I have a W210 E55 estate, Don't know why you never got them in states unless it was to do with AMGs limited production capacity back then but 20 years later it's still a really fun way to move a wardrobe.
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This is quickly becoming my favorite car talk show. The chemistry and car nerdiness of Jason and Derek play beautifully with their differing personalities. Loving it.
And yeah, the new RS6 Avant is sex on wheels. Too bad the people that would buy them will never be able to afford them.. If I had the money, I"d drive it every day and twice on Sunday
they just know so much specific shit about so many cars
@@obnxsdonky9394 ikr? I try to learn as much as possible about cars of all eras and still keep getting blown away by their knowledge
A friend of mine got an RS6 Avant, but yeah, my guess is after taxes he makes at least $500k a year...
make it 5 times on Sunday. Five 20 minute sessions on track, that is.
"They're making them unbuyable"
THANK YOU!! I know for A FACT, if they priced the wagons right, they probably would have sold a good number of wagons
Seriously? VW killed off the alltrack after what? 3 years and the US won't be getting a Sportwagen in the MK8 platform. Buick TourX is being discontinued after 2020. We lost the 3 series wagon. All affordable options that no one bought and being replaced by cross overs.
They still have to make money off of them - and, because volumes are inherently extremely low, their margins are nonexistent, which is why MSRP has to be much higher. This is why it's an industry wide problem, they aren't all just "making the same dumb choices", if only these intelligent people really were THAT inept
@@audisportracer this is because the world is full of idiots with no taste hence why I see crossovers EVERYWHERE I go.
@@audisportracer being "affordable" is completely different than the point he was making of the wagons being "unbuyable". They may have been affordable, but the lack of features the car was equipped with made the cars "unbuyable" at their price point.
@@audisportracer the vw wagon was very ugly and vw isnt known for reliability or honesty...
"Wagons are making a comeback!"
I want to believe...
What about the CTS-V wagon?
I can't believe it wasn't even mentioned.
Magnum too...
V wagon can be had with a manual, its a rare unicorn.
umm... volvo v70r.. like volvo raced a wagon and won with it in british touring car
My dream family hauler, in manual too
@@NXT_LVL we are long forgotten my friend, outside of us rare few that love and own them and those that hated them from day one.
Wagons ruled in Europe, specially before the SUV craziness. They are still much appreciated, and in my opinion still the best looking 4+ door cars.
I would never buy anything but a wagon, or a hatchback. No sedan for me. And never ever an SUV. Case in point: the Mercedes CLA looks soooo much better as a wagon (shooting brake, as they call it) than a sedan.
I had a 2015.5 Volvo V60 Polestar. I remember one day taking it to the track, passing a few Porsches, then hitting the grocery store and Home Depot on the way home.
To me this reads, "I win" no matter how you spell it!
Volvo 850 T5R manual in cream yellow. Coolest wagon ever.....
No mention of the T5R. Raced. Swede wagons are sex, 145, 245, 745, 945, 965……yum. Boring to most…..but yum.
@@robl7532 well, I think you missed the most beautiful of them all, the 1800ES. no matter if you hate Volvos and only want to ride bikes will you most probably think that it is a beautiful car.
nah audi rs4 avant
@@alalal123421 nah, Volvo 1800ES
@@alalal123421 nothing can beat a Volvo station wagon…
I am SICK. TO. DEATH. of Crossovers and SUVs clogging up the horizon.
A pretty rare event happened a few weeks ago. I pulled into a double left-turn lane to wait at the light, interstate on-ramp. I pulled up behind a small sedan..... in my small sedan. In a few moments, several other small sedans pulled in a surrounded me, all waiting for the light. It was remarkable how I could see everywhere without obstructed view, yet everyone was in perfectly adequate vehicles getting where they needed to go. No one needs to sit up high because if you're driving a small sedan, you don't have your view blocked. You also handle better, feel the road surface, experience a dynamically better ride without the need to be distracted by stupid tech. It felt like a moment in time, a small slice of 10 years ago. And yes, I drive a manual 5 speed 170 horsepower 4-banger. CUV's don't offer more space than the sedans they replaced with the same number of seats. They offer a bit more headroom, but at what cost? And at the loss of real driving dynamics? No thanks.
I have a truck and and small sedan I feel more comfortable in my truck idc what you say. I drive the small sedan to save gas or go on longer trips.
That I couldn’t have said better myself
@@G_G_G_G_ What kind of small sedan? A Civic? Corolla? Yaris?
Perhaps for you a good middle ground would be a more premium compact like maybe a BMW 2-series, Audi A3, or Mercedes CLA. Those would feel a lot more substantial then a typical economy car while still being nimble and returning good fuel economy.
I can’t argue with what feels better to you, but to me I just don’t like vehicles that are larger than what I need. Even when I drove a 2010 Ford Taurus for a few months, even though it’s still a sedan, it just felt massive and needlessly ponderous.
May I ask what you drive? Just curious what exactly " manual 5 speed 170 horsepower 4-banger" is. Sounds like a good old classic 20+ year old car.
@@nowiecoche I stroked a check for a less-than-7k mile one year old 2015 Focus sedan. Had the updated body style, had the reliable manual transmission, had the winter package with heated seats/steering, had enough tech without being ridiculous. Swapped in a larger rear sway bar to stabilize the car and reduce understeer. Popped a CAI under the hood and a cat-back Magnaflow. Picked up about 12-15 horsepower and some sound. It's been stone cold reliable, gets 43 mpg on the interstate with 3 adults in it, running a/c. It's entertaining enough not to get boring. The Focus always rode and steered pretty confidently, feeling stable and solid well over 100 mph if you want to.
But it's serving my needs right now. Is this how I judge other cars? Absolutely not. I'm much more rounded, informed, but I'm also practical. I'll buy my RWD sports car at some point but right now with a scumbag in the office of US president and the financial future of all of us hanging by a Federal reserve thread, I'm not leaving my 30+ mpg reliable car to some 16 mpg V8 giant snoozefest road-numb box.
Safety is just as much the ability to punch it and zip out of the way, as it is having a barge to crush everything smaller and lighter than I am. This big barge mentality is the reason roads are so congested and no on can see anything unless they're sitting up at Freightliner eye-level. Didn't have trouble seeing anything back in the 90's when people drove actual cars.
People buy something they believe will do EVERYTHING they could possibly imagine themselves ever doing. You do not need to buy for EVERY possible situation. All you end up with is a boring box that is so heavily compromised you'll lose all the joy of driving. Every time you go for a drive will be a big event, like taking a ship out of the harbor. You don't need to buy for ultimate utility. Buy for FUN. Buy for EXCITEMENT. Buy something that YOU can drive, rather than IT driving YOU.
is a dying breed man, here in Europe they are also selling fewer and fewer by the years. death by crossover
At least you guys still get midsize wagons and with manuals at that, hell you can even get the Jaguar XF wagon with a manual in Europe.
I despise crossovers and suvs
I don't really like wagons either, but tolerate them much MUCH more, and brands are coming up with some amazing designs
no more do they look like hearses
You might think it is a dying breed but the actual Numbers say something different
J R but the numbers say more and more people worldwide are buying crossovers instead of wagons 😂
I always thought Europe has the wagons, US has the suvs and thought everyone was happy with what they got, apparently from the comments, the latter is not the case
Did we forget about the srt8 hemi wagon and the almighty cts v wagon
Apparently we have
The fact that an SRT8 Magnum even existed has been lost to history. The only people that remember them are those that own them and diehard Mopar fans.
desertsavagery I’m not a mopar fan but the srt8 was a fast wagon heck it could still give a regular mustang gt or camaro ss a good scare
@@easycheddy I love my Magnum, a big cam and a tune for a little more punch and an aggressive exhaust for an aggressive sound to match...my only complaint is that it wasn't available with a 6spd. The stock Mercedes 5spd slushbox is depressing.
people...women in particular, like sitting up higher in an SUV..this is the first thing about SUVs mentioned by every woman I have asked.
100% facts.
Sad truth
My friend drives a wagon while his wife drives an SUV. My friend is 6’4” and his wife is 5’4”
@@aygwm Xactly. 👌🏻
...so... women are wrong? That's what I'll go with 😂
Don't forget in 05 at Subaru you could get a Wagon WRX, a Legacy GT (turbo) wagon with a manual, or a Outback XT (turbo) manual wagon... Not to mention a Forester XT turbo manual and Baja turbo manual :(
Duh, how could we forget Subaru!
The manual Forester XT was the best of the Subaru wagons, then the 2009 SH hit.
@@JasonCammisa Also the Dodge Magnum, and the CTS V. The early 2000's were all about the wagons.
FacePwn64 the current Outback seems to be freakin everywhere. It’s amazing to me given that America supposedly hates wagons. Subaru has a great marketing department apparently.
@@Shredmo Foresters are not wagons, they are crossovers. You get the shitty crossover seating possition and short stubby tall design.
As a college student, my first car that I’ve ever bought with my own money is a BMW 328i wagon (E91). This video totally nails it in that as a younger buyer I don’t want a giant marshmallow of an suv and I’ve began to notice that trend is starting to become more prominent
We are in our 30s and my wife just got a Buick TourX. Fuck jumping on the CUV train.
DODGE MAGNUM SRT8.
Since i was little i want one, but are impossible to find one where I live
I was looking at them, but the interior isn’t very nice.
And I’m not an interior snob either, it was just the peak of Chrysler cost cutting.
I went to buy a Volvo V60 T6 AWD only to find it was a one year only car, and no longer available. To get AWD, you need to buy a Crossallroadtrekback (or what ever they call it) with raised ride height and gross plastic cladding. The only other option is V60 T5 FWD. You guys are so right about product planners not understanding what wagon enthusiasts want. Great video.
I’m here for the wagon talk! CTS-V, V70, V90, Outbacks (just traded), E55 (My Lord), Saab 9-3 Wagon??? Not sure but it think that did exist but RS6 is definitely a buy for me if I was jonesing for a wagon.
The 9-5 aero wagon was better than the 9-3 until '06, when the 9-3 wagon got a 2.8. The ease of tuning made it unfair.
No mention of the CTS-V wagon.
Put some respect on the Volvo 5 cylinder motors name!
Wish Cadillac would bring back the wagon in the v configuration
There's something interesting about automatic transmissions in Europe until the mid 2000's the mindset was that aromatics were only for people who didn't know how to drive and for who wanted to waste money on fixing them...
I think it's just that automatics have gotten so much better in recent years, and the fuel economy is supposedly better.
Walter Röhrl eine wahre Legende 👌
The internet is always a blaze with positive comments for different cars. However, when it comes time to spending their money, they buy an SUV.
No, the problem is car guys are all buying used cars
Sean Cotlier yeah, my mom only just bought a vw alltrack new because it's the last manual wagon with awd and she wants to use it for 10 years at least
I kind of hate SUV's, especially small SUV's and "crossovers". They are just bad. When I went to buy a family car I ended up going with a minivan because it actually is way more "utility" than a "sport utility". More seating, more cargo room, easier to get in and out of. It just made more sense. If I'm going to buy an SUV I'm going to buy a full size, actual SUV, not these small bastardized things people call SUVs these days.
@Sean Cotlier I purchased a 2017 new Ford focus RS. Got it for $9000 under msrp due to the head gasket issue. They fixed it before I took delivery under warranty. Most fun car I've ever owned. Also, it is literally selling for the same price I bought it for
Cars are big-ticket items, and most people only have one for themselves. You give me the option of two cars with the same power, but one is a low-slung coupé with style and the other is a lifted CUV that is more useful across a broader set of use-cases, and then tell me that the difference in price is only around $2,000...in favor of the SUV...and guess which one I'm going to have a hard time justifying? The bottom line is that auto-makers do not actually want to sell these things, because to actually do so would require destroying the illusion they have perpetuated for decades that performance costs money. They aren't offering the smaller cars as a real alternative to the lifted boxes which have 90% of the handling and 100% of the power and 150% the utility for effectively the same price. Case-in-point: Audi TT. There is no reason that car should have a $12,000 premium over the S3 and RS3 given that the mechanicals are nigh-identical, but here we are! Audi TT going out the door because not enough people were stupid enough to spend Porsche money on a tarted-up super-Golf. Combine with the fact that the used market is oversaturated with phenomenally well-optioned and reliable options for any make and model, and It's the entire small-car market in a nutshell.
I bought a 2019 VW golf Sportwagon, 6 speed manual with 4 motion. Love it. My biggest complaint was I couldn't have a manual transmission in a higher than base trim level. Why VW??
Also, my previous car was an 03 tdi Jetta wagon with a 5 speed manual. Best car I've ever owned. Got 412,000 miles out of it.
I can’t figure out what the planners at VW are thinking. In a lot of ways they do the opposite of what Americans want with a car. Now is the time for a well equipped wagon VW!!! SUV’s are not cool VW!!!
I would watch 24-hour long version of this.
Vladimir Bogdantsev Same!
Thanks, guys! That would be a LOT of work! ;)
@@JasonCammisa Don't think that we're spoiled. I for one appreciate you doing this type of content, dude. Been missing it since you've left MT. Now, between Issimi and your IG reviews, we're all set. Keep it up!
JasonCammisa Don’t do it, this amount of content is pretty perfect. Longer episodes, less frequently posted and higher quality, super-hot co-host...perfect.
I remember when the Dodge Magnum wagon was the hot thing back in the early 2000's, Dodge put a Hemi V8 in the RT and SRT-8 models, the top engine was 425 HP. They kind of went away in popularity in the 2010's, but that was America's big beefy wagon craze. I guess the big car crash after the 2008 recession kind of ruined the Magnum's reign, otherwise we might have seen a Magnum Hellcat in the 2010's.
So, I'm not done watching yet, but how the holy fuck have you not mentioned the 04-07 Volvo V70R!?!?!? Seriously, AWD, 6sp manual, adaptive suspension, and all the other goodies you mentioned. Also gorgeous and sounds great.
there's definitely room for episode 2!
@@ISSIMIOfficial please, cause I'm damn near stroking out over here. lol. '95 850 T5R?, 98-99 V70T5 manual, 98-00 V70R, All the Saab Vigens and Aeros etc.... Cast the net wider than Germany.
ISSIMI Official DO. IT.
@@itsonlymusic1 breathe; breeeeaaaathhee. Heh, but seriously, my neighbor had a manual R wagon. So hot.
JasonCammisa lol, my color is returning to normal and I have unclenched. Thanks
I love the RS6 I want one in Sonoma green with black rims and green calipers. SUV'S are not my cup of tea. My wife has had 3 7 or 8 seaters so far. They work for road trips and going to my family that lives in the mountainous country but that's it. Otherwise a Wagon is better in almost every way.
24:40 “If you have the balls you can try to race me back down as well.” Mouton was a savage
She showed Walter who's boss and I can never praise her enough for that!
I can’t believe I just listened to an entire episode about wagons and Subaru wasn’t brought up one time 🤦🏽♂️
I would kill for BMW or MB or Audi to bring to the USA:
1) A3 Sportback TFSI e with Quattro
2) M135iX Hatch (would love a 135eX... but one thing at a time)
3) Mercedes-AMG A 35 4Matic Hatch (or the CLA Shooting Brake, which looks phenomenal)
As a European, i'd argue that we prefer to drive manual gears because they are more engaging and interesting to drive and that we don't opt for them because they are cheaper, Auto gearboxes are just boring.
Plus, we have a lot less long distance driving than in the US and especially in the UK and Ireland, we have a lot more minor roads, with more twisty and undulating sections, which is where a Manual Gearbox comes into it's own
+1. .. Caught the show only recently. .. Thoroughly enjoy discussions with folks who leave their ego's at the door. .. Subscribed. ..
The wagon discussion dredges up fond wagon memories. .. Returning from a Germany trip I'd head straight to the Audi dealer buying a new `95.5 UrS6 wagon. .. Silver metallic over gorgeous black leather Recaro seating. .. My 1 of 433 S6 wagons had the one and only available option, a Motorola phone with a console nested handset. . .. Those were the days! .. Several Euro RS2 engine enhancements, Porsche 993 Big Reds, lowering Euro S6 Audi springs & dampers, Euro Audi HID's w/levelers, and a sport exhaust made for a sportive sleeper wagon. .. All the while our stock appearing UrS6 Avant became a daily driver of 10 years. .. I could kick myself in the arse for selling to a fellow Audi S Club member. .. The UrS6 Avant (Uber ski wagon) was a special car.
I‘d love to see a M3 Touring
There is one built by BMW.
It's a prototype to convince the executive board of cool car.
Cool car does not work well in BMWs executive board.
There are a handful of non factory F80/F31 based M3 wagons on youtube. ua-cam.com/video/xZfDiopyoOo/v-deo.html&feature=emb_title
Julian - I ruined an E46 M3 convertible to build my S54 powered E46 touring. It was worth it because it’s an amazing little car and a blast to drive.
LC's Garage Sounds awesome!
venomspeak - I started with a 323i E46 touring (2000 only in the US) and swapped the engine, trans, subframes and other M3 related parts into the touring. The convertible was sold for scrap after I harvested everything I needed for it. The CSL box video I did was the touring as well as one other. I’ll try and make a more in depth video of the finished car here soon.
We love wagons here in canada.. I just went shopping in my volvo cross-country and parked next to a subaru outback and corolla wagon and then a focus wagon parked beside me... four wagons in a row.. mostly SUVs around though... boo.
More Canada wagon love: even the newest gen golf sportwagen/alltrack still had a 50% take rate for the manual transmission in Canada! Sad that we might not get that car here anymore because it wouldn't make sense for VW to ship it to NA if Americans don't buy them.
Ryan Freeman too bad they don't sell the Corolla, focus, or golf wagon anymore.
@@saturndesigns2339 my 2002 volvo v70 xc Ocean race edition might be one of the rarest around with only 100 that came to canada! By chance I pulled up to another one at an intersection and chatted with the owner quick.. what are the odds of that happening?? I got to drive an Audi S4 avant manual V8 model once.. what a blast!
Ryan Freeman I'm jealous 😂
Manual is better to slow down in snow and ice is a big reason I preferred them. I’m wondering if we’ll get a wagon from Tesla - they don’t seem to care too much what consumers want and already have an SUV...I’d prefer an e-wagon over our 3.
Great show as usual. Thanks, guys! Apart from other wagons already mentioned in the comments (Volvos, Saabs, CTS-V, etc.) we did have in Europe a nice version of the mid 2000's Legacy wagon called Spec-B, which had the flat 6 engine combined with a sporty suspension and diff and gearbox from the Impreza WRX (if I remember correctly), probably aiming at stealing some E46 330i customers from BMW, and which resulted a nice, understated enthusiasts car, but they are rather rare nowadays and usually sell in hours when one shows up.
My last wagon was a Saab 9-5 Aero (the one with the 'glasses'); nice car but not really sporty
It's funny that America dislikes station wagons in general but older American station wagons bring insane amounts of money.
I miss my 850 Turbo wagon. Was a great car, fun to drive, quick, comfy and pretty good mileage. Hope to get back into a wagon again. Problem is there aren't many, and they're pricey. I do look at used BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Volvo wagons all the time. Maybe some day.
As someone with a moderate income who likes wagons, when I finally part with my 91 Accord wagon with manual trans, the manual Civic hatch seems like the closest thing to the wagon I want.
They actually made a Civic wagon 1 or 2 generations ago btw.
@@imnotusingmyrealname4566, not for North America. There was a 2 door hatch until 2000, but no wagon since the early 90s.
@@questioner1596 Yes I know. I've also never seen one here in Austria with an Austrian plate but now I regularly see a black Civic wagon with a Slovakian license plate parked next to a construction site. The Eastern Europeans now get better vehicles than us. We get fucking VW while they get all kinds of Japanese and Korean cars. I also recently saw a freaking Kia K9 here, also with an Eastern European plate.
The Regal TourX was drop-dead gorgeous. Gone.
I currently have a 2019 Skoda Superb Wagon with AWD and the engine from the Golf R in a slightly detuned guise, making about 270PS. I can only own one car, and I am convinced that this is the best single car on the European market considering price, utility, interior space, ride, power, looks... is it a switchblade sporty handler? No, but the thing flies down the Autobahn with four adults, a dog, and everybody's luggage as well as anything I've ever driven. Just a wonderful place to spend time with an insane amount of passenger room, and that's before you lay the back seats down.
In regards to 5 cylinder vehicles, you guys in the US really missed out on the Ford Focus ST and RS models with the volvo 5 cyl 2.5 Turbo engines, it is an absolute symphony every time you hear it.
I literally have one of those dual rear wiper Camry Wagons on my street - if Tam HYPHEN Scott wants to give up his AAN factory equipped wagon Jason can put us in touch.
Saltyweasel, I can't hide from you. :)
My wife and I updated our garage this year with two wagons. First, they were better to drive than the comparably priced SUVs we tested. And, second, principle. Period. We're nearly a year in and we love our 2019 E450 and 2019 Mazda 3 Hatch (basically a small wagon, yes?).
SEAT Altea can fit a pallet in the back
🔥🔥
The 3 hatch is a wagon if you squint hard enough, but Mazda did make a 3 (Protege) wagon and a Mazda 6 wagon that is pure sex.
I dig wagons down here in Texas! My CTS-V was my daily driver for 60K miles! 850 hp on E85 Flex Fuel was an absolute riot every day. Jason is clearly partial to the Germans and that's okay - but I agree if youre going to mention wagons CTS-V deserves a remote mention at the least as an american rarity.
Hottest wagon of all time is the early 70’s Olds Vista Cruiser. That rear roof with all the sunroofs was awesome!
If i can comment about EV’s. They’ll make a small dent in sales compared to Internal Combustion engine. But will never be the sole type of vehicle. What about people living in apartments? Those that park on the streets in cities? What about the fact that our electric grids cannot handle millions of cars charging each night.
I loved my '88 Honda Civic AWD wagon with the CRX 1.6 and 6-speed manual. I got 250,000 miles out of it. It had that special something that made me love it every time I got behind the wheel. I still want an E39 Touring with a manual. I really wanted an A6 Allroad but my mechanic told me that I would just put his kid through college with it.
"We love cars that break"
I do love my MINI. It's got character, and it's fun.
Then you'll love the BMW 2-Series they sell in the USA: it's a Mini underneath with the least expensive BMW parts tacked on: a recipe for disaster.
I love my wagon. Mk4 VW Jetta Wagon, 12V VR6, 5-speed. With a low boost turbo, I could upset a lot of SUVs.
At 25:36 about 10 years ago, I owned a Dark grey/Black Audi S4 C4 avant. It had a chip, so instead of 230hp, it had 273hp, and 415NM...
Damn I loved that car..
Still got pictures from it.
Before that I had a non turbo quattro coupé 1986 in champagne metal (they are very expensive today- an more rare than the UR-quattro)...
I loved that car- still do...
After that I had a Dark grey/Black A4 B5 avant quattro with almost all the options, and with a full RS4 cabin from a RS4 B5.
Fully adjustable with heated seats ect..
Now I have a light blue manuel A6 2.4 V6 quattro avant (pretty rare model here in Denmark btw)...
Great Channel😃✌🏻🌍🇺🇸🚗🏎🛻🇩🇰
That avant is drop dead GORGEOUS!
just wish I could afford it. Yikes. $$$
MAWA Make America Wagon Again
5:10 We actually never got the F31 in a manual here, diesel or otherwise. Only offered with the ZF 8HP. Sad, but the E91 328i is just so good I don't really feel like I missed much personally.
As an old school Audi fan, this one hit me right in the happy place. Thanks dudes..
Was going to sleep but just saw this and was like nahhh
I'm an auto detailer in New Zealand, where we've had Subaru Legacy turbos since 1989, and those Audi wagons sell, man! The company I work for does the cars for the local Audi dealership so we get to drive them often. Not only are they comfy and well-spec'd, but even the non-RS models are effortlessly quick.
I'm also pretty sure the Golf R Wagon sold out here before any of them actually landed in-country.
You talk about cool wagons but you didn’t mention one of the coolest: Dodge Magnum.
SRT8 Magnums are in high demand too...huge omission from this video.
Or cts-v wagon
@@KevAlberta the only thing that makes sense on this post right now.
Best combination of current estates (cough) / wagons would be:
-Volvo V60 R design for shell / body / looks. 😎
-The lovely V8 engine from the Mercedes E63.😍
-The manual gearbox from the Ford Focus ST.💙
-The drivetrain from the Audi RS6.👌🏻
I love my diesel manual VW Sportwagen sooo much! I even have a personalized license plate that says DSLGATE
I llike the bit where they say that if you drive a Diesel Manual Wagon you are their hero. Well I now drive a 2015 Ford Focus estate with a manual shifter and 105 Hp... am I hero material ? I assume not, but this was the best value for the money that I had at the time and I really love my car (I can fit a whole bicycle in the back with zero effort).
I absolutely love my '12 VW Sportwagon. It has the 2.5 w/ an IE ECM tune, a GTI suspension and brakes, chassis bracing and 18" Eagle F1 tires. Looks great, has the handling and quickness of a stock GTI of that era but w/ that 5 cyl. sound. Wish it had a 6 speed manual (alas it's tiptronic) but other than that it's a terrifically practical yet fun car that doesn't look like everything else on the road.
As the owner of a CTS-V wagon and previously two Magnum SRT8's, I'm kind of disappointed neither was mentioned in this segment. Neither may be made any more, which is a shame, but both are some of the coolest late model American wagons made in decades.
And to Jason's point, I would have considered a TSX wagon for my wife, especially if they made in a Type-S variant, but the fact that Honda/Acura didn't even offer it with the V6 I had to bail. The manufacturers are setting the 5 doors up to fail. As a wagon enthusiast I am hoping this trend is on it's way out. To be determined...
Remember the Dodge Magnum? That was also a recent attempt at a wagon.
You guys forgot to mention the Passat W8 wagon & Quantum wagon.
Might have been different if you guys had got the Volvo V70 D5 back in the 00's. A fantastic all round wagon. They pulled like a train, were well specced and very comfortable. They're everywhere in Europe.
I got my 2019 Great Falls Green VW Alltrack 6 spd. manual right as VW was phasing them out and I absolutely LOVE that wagon! Much more than my wife's 2019 VW Tiguan. I wish VW would continue to bring them here to our shores but until the SUV/CUV craze dies down, I doubt that will happen anytime soon. I guess I am going to try and nurse that Alltrack along for as long as possible.
I'm so pleased to see a Land Rover Defender behind Derek.
I have owned from new a 2000 A6 Quattro wagon with the 2.8 VR6 engine (30V). It has been the best car I have owned (living in South Africa I was able to set the cruise control at 200km/h and drive for 3 hours, refill the tank and repeat). Still own it but it is now slipped to No 2 as I bought my 40 year dream, and 4 years ago bought a new 991.2 C2. I like the lightly turbo engine in it as I used to drive up to altitude in Jo’burg 2000m high and 1500km away, each month). Hate SUV’s with a passion, but did have an old diesel Gwagom on a farm in the UK which completed 500,000 abused miles, and was still running when I left there!
Dang, you guys are my spirit animals. I owned 5-speed '88 E30 touring, daily a lowered B8.5 Audi allroad, have drooled over Sciroccos (and Corrados!) since forever and have my eye on a 2022 Volvo V60 (they're still available here in Canada!). Plus I thought I was the only person to ever appreciate the Camry wagon's dual rear wipers. Rock stars.
3 and 1/2 years later and the wagon still hasn't made a comeback :( I wish Jason's prediction had come true!
Another reason why wagons don't sell here in the states is because wagon buyers are intelligent buyers & know buying a new car is a bad investment & they would much rather buy a car two years old. Manufacturers like BMW also made it easy on us by never putting there more powerful engine in a wagon with RW drive. I own bmw 07 328i manual & 09 V8 Vantage. Thinking about selling both to get the RS6 Avant
No mention of B5/6/7 hot wagons? Legacy turbo? C5 Wagons? There HAS to be an episode 2. It’s illegal not to.
Michele Mouton is a fucking legend
your e30 wagon is so dope, that car is one of my dream cars
My parents had a 5 speed N/A Audi 5000 from 1985 to 2004. Thing ran like a top the entire time. Never had major issues with it. Neighbor had an 86 turbo auto that caught fire in the front driveway in the middle of the night.
I wonder...did the US get the E61 M5 Touring? They are quite rare here and the V10 cars never got sold as manuals in Europe, so a manual US e61 M5 would be a goldmine of an investment.
Nope, no E61 M5 for the US. :(
The sad fact is that crossovers and SUVs have taken over Europe as well which means wagons may become a rarity on this side of the pond too until they disappear altogether.
When it’s time to replace my Focus ST, I’ll definitely buy a brand new wagon. As long as there’s a non-lifted, sporty, manual transmission, and somewhat quick option available for less than $30,000.
Currently though, it seems like basically every wagon on the market is worse than a sporty CUV in just about every metric. It makes no sense to me why i would buy something like an Golf Wagon when something like the new 2020 Escape 2.0L seems to beat it in just about every way and really doesn’t handle that much worse in stock configuration.
Now if they sold a Golf R wagon, that would be the choice 100%.
I've seen Golf R Wagon's here in Australia. Not sure about overseas.
Absolutely nada to do with wagons, but when they talked about broken down cars.... I just gotta say, my Mclaren 12C blew a coolant hose or some such today on Angeles Crest Hwy (no freaking cell service up there) and almost left me stranded (with no freaking cell service and I forgot how to use my Garmin InReach satellite text function to connect with someone able to come rescue me. I done bought that just for this contingency and forgot how to use it!) Other motorists tried what they could to help (thanks fellas!), gave me water to add in the radiator, offered to drive down to civilization and get me help, but I eventually limped down to where Verizon began to care... Thanks fellas, there is hope for humanity yet. The point here, is that uptil the car overheated, it wa absolutely nivana. Don't get that tingle from my F90 M5 or 997 turbo or 991.2 TS
You have good taste
I am 100% the target market for these wagons. I couldn't find one so I had to settle for a 19' BMW 340i GT. Closest thing to a fun wagon I can find without breaking the bank.
Im suprised yall never mentioned the Magnum SRT8 and the Cadillac CTSV Wagon. Those were Americas last sporty wagons n they were great, especially the CTSV.
I absolutely LOVE how the new Buick Regal wagon looks. I'm sad that they haven't depreciated savagely because I want one. That car in 2WD with a stick would be so amazing.
Same!! 1st time I saw one, I thought "that's a Euro car. How did Buick get away with that?!" I then found out it's because it's a rebadged Opel Insignia & it made a lot more sense.
Yes, but I was test driving a used 1 owner Mercedes-Wagon dealer maintained and there was a waiting line for a test drive. It sold for 2-3 x what a sedan would cost. So there is still plenty of car enthusiasts who feel special about wagons. High power wagons are my favorites. The challenge is to find one that was well maintained. When you do you won the lottery so don't hesitate.
Jason you're wrong; your wagon is superior to Derek's. I saw you driving it once on highway 37 in the North Bay and couldn't not stare. It's just f*cking awesome
I couldn't like this comment more. DEREK YOUR WAGON SUUUUUUCKS! E304Ever! :)
Finally had the money to buy a manual AWD wagon. Bought a 19 Alltrack. Love it. And of course it went out of production. I'm 30. A friend of mine just bought an Allroad, same age. Wagons are hot to my generation, we just needed to become adults first.
Can't wait until you guys become rich adults and buy more wagons!
+1. .. Good discussion; wagons. . Question? The 2020 Subaru Outback 2.4l Turbo, is the Outback a wagon or SUV. . OB ground clearance is in the 9-inch + neighborhood. . The 2.4l turbo four is good for 265PS and 260ft torque running through Subaru's all-wheel-drive scheme. ..
Can we all agree that Audi builds the best wagons? Let everyone else sell SUVs and crossovers.
Cammissa left over Jag XF wagons are going for around 58-59k and if the dealer is willing to lease you can get for 540ish/mth. Would you do it then?
I especially loved this episode as a happy owner of Audi A4 B8 Avant with 3,2 FSI and manual :)
I have made the mistake of owning a SUV/Crossover (Subaru XV) in the past, and never ever again!
Very sad with the current state of automobiles. Unless you are rich, you really have nothing but suvs. Give me a rwd wagon with no cladding, that's under $40k and you can get my money. Absolutely love this show. Great work
This is such a great video. Individual car enthusiasts may be able to buy 1 or three cars that they like, but they do not have the power to make wagons good, affordable, and can't convince the general public to buy them the way a manufacturer or dealership can, let alone change industry trends. I can't do anything when the only wagons left are the subaru outback, $50k volvos and $100k german luxury yachts.
I own a 2017 VW Alltrack, top of the line SEL model. Got it for only 28K brand new when the list price was 35K at the time. Love this CAR!!!!! Looks great, drives better than my 2018 GTI and loaded with a lot of tech and amenities +panoramic sunroof. If you can live with some of its (minor) reliability issues, there is not a better all-arounder car for the money. I will keep it forever or until the engine dies, which should probably happen right around the 130K mark if history proves true. Still, $130K for an A6 wagon? I can only dream.
I think that one important detail that is missing in discussions like these is that the people who make up the group "enthusiasts" are ever-changing. For example, there are enthusiasts from the hot rod era, the 90s-era Japanese tuners, and current-day enthusiasts - to which group should the auto manufacturers cater to? The reality is that enthusiasts expect consistency from companies that are also expected to innovate and push the envelope by new customers and their shareholders. It's impossible to build cars that please everyone, and the fact that even enthusiasts don't agree unanimously on what the perfect car is should paint a better understanding as to why car manufacturers build cars to please the next person, not the buyer of yesterday.
List your top 5 favorite wagons that have gone extinct, Here’s mine:
5) Volvo V60 Polestar
4) Toyota Tercel 4x4
3) Cadillac CTS-V
2) Lexus IS300 Sportwagon
1) Subaru WRX/STi
There's only one wagon in recent years that I wish was still in production, and it's not on your list. The Dodge Magnum, if that car continued on and got the 2nd gen update that the 300 got with all the same options, I'd own one right now instead of a 300.
snek Redeye/Hellcat/Demon/SRT Versions of the Magnum would be SIICK!
@@brodiwheeler7583 They did make an SRT8 version back when they were in production. 6.1L 425 HP, they're all over used.
Of what they did make I'd be after the R/T(5.7) AWD, those are actually harder to come by then the SRT8. However everything about the 2nd gen update is just SOOO much better in the LX platform cars. They stopped Magnum production in 2008, but in 2009 they introduced the upgraded Eagle Hemi and the MUCH better AWD system. Then there's the 2011 face lift and interior redesign, much better then before, nicer with far more options/features.
To really be happy with one I'd have to combine a 2nd gen 300C and a Magnum into one car. That'd be awesome but too much work and expense. Maybe if my 300C was to get rear ended I'd find a shop that could graph on the rear roof/hatch section of a Magnum, that's about the only piratical path I can think of to having one.
snek Siiick, I never knew they had a 5.7 AWD. What a Legend! Frankenstein that 300C if you get the chance, but don’t get hurt trying to get rear ended to do it. Maybe Wagons will come back into favor again someday. If they do, I would count on Dodge to build a sick one since they have definitely established themselves as a brand that ain’t scared to build Fun stuff.
@@brodiwheeler7583 Thanks, FWIW my 300C is also a special edition, the John Varvatos Luxury edition and has every option available even the block heater. This version of the 300 was only made for one year.
1000%. My wife and I were shopping for a new car not too long ago, and I had my heart set on the A4 Allroad. Eventually, after looking and negotiating, we got an X3 M40i for the same price we'd have had to pay for a mid-equipped A4 Allroad. I was ready to get the Allroad, but I just got so much more vehicle for the same money that I couldn't justify the wagon... I do think EVs will push a variant of the wagon back into the mix, as the packaging flexibility allowed by EV power trains and batteries will push down the center of gravity and roofline of crossover-derived EVs without sacrificing interior volume.
I have a 2019 VW Golf Alltrack with leaking Pano roof. Perfectly adequate car
But you get a great view.
The E63 wagon has always been my dream car, that when I win the lottery, that would be my first purchase, but now I dream of the RS6 🤤 Ohmygosh yes please! I could afford the A6, but the styling on the RS6 is amazing. I love a wagon, still driving my 300TE 😁
I have a W210 E55 estate, Don't know why you never got them in states unless it was to do with AMGs limited production capacity back then but 20 years later it's still a really fun way to move a wardrobe.
1993 S4 avant v8 owner here! Very cool video!
wagons = SUV space + sports car pace
I love this podcast. I remember the stat that the E-Class wagon was sold to the most wealthy Mercedes' customers. Love hearing from Jason.
Yeah…I think it has the highest rate of cash buyers for a new car.