The Quad Cortex is in Trouble
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- Опубліковано 26 бер 2023
- When Neural DSP announced the Quad Cortex at NAMM 2020 a lot of players were very excited. But after 3 years and promised features like plugin porting and a desktop editor no where to be found, it seems more and more like an Over-promise, Under-Deliver situation.
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LTT always says to never buy a piece of tech based on what features are promised in the future.
LTT and everyone with a bit of common sense...
I cant stand LTT, but he is right.
what is LTT?
Linus Tech Tips?
Words to live by.
I've been an engineer for most of my life and treat most things that appear in front of me as a cartoon until proven otherwise
Reduction to simplicity is a great tool and you use it well. Also, I love the overall call-to-responsibility tone with no malice added. Proper journalism!
kdh just crossed his arms guys im sobbing
😭😭😭
You made an excellent point about Kemper - over the course of 10 years, they have consistently improved their features and software surrounding their hardware, but it always comes as a surprise (at least to me). They underpromise and overdeliver, which seems to be the opposite of Neural DSP. This whole thing reminds me of the Mackie Hotwire, a tube/SS hybrid amp they made a huge marketing push about, and then a few months after it was available it just disappeared and they never talked about it again. In my experience, if there's smoke, there's usually some fire. If a company seems to be in disarray, it usually is.
You failed to mention the rig manager is a nightmare. They also lied last year about being able to hook it up with your cell phone wouldn’t respond at all to anybody and it cost an extra $50-$100 to do that if you do want to connect to a cell phone not worth it. It feels terrible and I think the people that like it are using pedals to help it or they’re using clean sounds or they’re playing I think they’re getting help with the sound when you see them on UA-cam through a lot of other equipment lotta guys just use it you know what never mind buy what you want. I love the QC. The first modeler I do like. Right Anthony? You have not tried it so how would you know? By these videos?
@@Utubesup7890 I bought my Kemper about one year ago and I haven't had any problems like you mentioned. The only problem I had was I had to update my windows to windows 10 on my laptop and it was a nightmare lol. Besides that, the Kemper is by far the best studio investment ever. I was going to buy the qc but it was almost 1 year wait so I bought the Kemper and never looked back. By the way the windows editor has never failed me so far. Sorry you had a bad experience.
@@tonyg6158 the Kemper imo was so bad that I did pass on the quad three times but started seeing and hearing about it. Tried it out. Loved it immediately. I like the quad so much I bought two. I never have liked modelers. I still use amps and pedals first but the quad comes next. I love it. It’s being badly ripped on over plug ins when the modeler sounds better. It feels like an amp too.
@@Utubesup7890 KEMPER have the best ecosystem...including cab in the room via kemper kone and liquid profiling !! Kemper's effects and profiles (e.g., M Britt, tone Junkie) are also much more well engineered... The powered versions are also very versatile .
I think the folks at Neural thought it was going to be a lot easier than it actually is to develop a cloud library platform with desktop editors. Line 6 is the only company that makes one of these hardware modelers that actually has the engineering and development resources to deliver these kinds of features.
Yes, but it is still very unlike for us Finns to make empty promises. We have a reputation of do and deliver. Neural QC is looking a lot like empty steam even if it is still good. Competitors will soon just go further than the QC.
- A random Finn
@@SakariKempas I almost bought one, but instead I got an Axe FX 3. I thought the Axe 3 was going to be a lot more user friendly than it turned out to be, tbh. But then I learned that Fractal Audio is basically a bunch of people in a garage in New Jersey. They’re a super small company, and I believe Neural DSP are even smaller.
@@5urg3x Helix floor owner, its the best trust me. I've used AXFX3 multiple times, it sounds and feels great, but an extra 700 for a floorboard and complicated UI makes the helix the best IMO. And every time I hook it up to my computer it has a new update or two with new amps, effects, ect.
@@h1tsb1unt Yeah. The GUI of the AxeFX is terrible. Even AxeEdit is not that great. It does sound amazing though, and the impulses and effects that it comes with are basically the best.
Fractal has had that for years.
Thanks! I’ve had one for a while and it’s nice to get some real coverage. You are also forgetting the free alternative in the form of NAM (Neural Amp Modeler)
NAM made me sell my axe-Fx!!!
its the best ampsim that ever existed and I’m thinking about selling my amps for the first time there’s literally 99% no difference
@@Airtrooper719 hahaha, that's rich! Thats like trading in a car for a bike.
@@shaharbar Have you tried NAM?
@@TudorAdrian While NAM is da bombz, I agree with Shahar Bar - would never sell such a unit for NAM, because NAM does not give you the flexibility of tweaking, you are heavily reliant on the quality of captures.
Would also not wanna miss the STL Tones Stuff, I love the fact in the Josh Middleton plugin that the Multiwatt just behaves like the real thing! That's stuff NAM cannot do.
But, as Machine learning progresses, who knows what will be possible in a few years? Definitely interesting times!
There are a lot of people who will winge and nitpick like this, but after everything, you can't deny to sheer flexibility and utility that the QC offers despite everything. I'm setting up mine to run a whole band (2 guitars + Bass) which allows me to distill an entire van's worth of gear into this one little box. But hey, that's my scenario, not everyone is going to need to go that extreme. I'm definitely happy, however, that I don't have to rent a robbery-prone trailer
As a QC owner and owner of multiple Archtype plugins it’s a bit aggravating that in the last update they said they were choosing to prioritize M1 updates for the plugins but also they keep rolling out new plugins…and I expect after paying 1800 and waiting almost a year to get it…that as you mentioned their “flagship” products and the consumers that bought them would be priority but I can tell you that’s not the case! Great video man 👍🏼👍🏼
You should’ve bought a helix
I feel you bro 👍🏻✊
Am sorry - and glad I dodged buying one.
Probably because they already got your money. (Joke) Quad Cortex is most likely a different beast compared to the plugins. They might actually be completely different in code and how they work with the hardware or something like that so maybe they might even have to write a completely different plugin for the QC because the hardware it’s running on is completely different. From my understanding sharc processors are different from regular cpus, that might present somekind of obstacles that takes time to resolve
With that said sharc processors are great. UAD has sharc processors (and probably many other) as well and UAD is amazing imo.
I do not own a QD but actually would like to own one in the future. I think they nailed the UI and that’s very important to be able to really deep dive and get out the most of it without too much work. Some music products have tedious menu diving and it really ruins those creative on the fly experimental ideas.
I love how the sales man kept saying “should be” “should have” gotta love that plausible deniability
I noticed that as well. Government talk there
If someone in a music shop tells me a unit 'should' do something, I'm not touching it. It either means they don't know, or literally, it should but doesn't.
This just reinforces why I went for the helix environment, especially as a bassist. Bass kit in the QC is an afterthought at best. While my HX XL could be more bass friendly, it beats the pants off anything else out there. Also having a desktop editor is a must. No editor, no purchase.
Highly Agree, with the new update in Helix .. Bass got incredible.. am getting the Tonex if its about the the capturing.
This QC is overprice!!
Totally agree with you! I sold my helix so I could buy my quad cortex - based entirely on promises. I had dialed in a perfect bass tone with the Helix the first day I had it. I've had my quad cortex for a few months and I'm still struggling to find something quite as natural sounding!
I have the opposite experience. I used to have a helix and I keep trying native, but I never get the great sounds I get with the QC 😂
@@somebassdude I've come back around to my QC - it takes a bit more playing around to really dial something in (I'm on bass) but now I'm unbelievably happy with it
@@adventuremachineVGM Same! Bass player here too (Ursa, BE). I always tend to make my bass patches too complex. Right now I do:
Jewel compressor > Sadowsky preamp capture > b3k (blend 2, level 6.5) > ampeg Svt ( gain 4.5 ish), and it sounds amazing.
Probably will upload a preset once I am happy with it.
Recently picked up a QC and yes not being able to use my 2 dsp plug-ins is a bummer. But... I have been very satisfied with the unit. I am happy with my purchase, and since then my entire band has moved to a QC haha.
You are a true journalist, I appreciate your coverage on this and all the other topics. Fair. Balanced. KDH news.
When I bought a Helix I had no idea how great the updates would be ! And all the features are magnificent. Line 6 really look after the players. If a Helix 2.0 comes out, I trust it to be fantastic too
I own a HX Stomp and I'm so glad that it can piggyback it's bigger brother in terms of updates!
Fellow HX Stomp here. They just started another beta test round, it's always like a mini Christmas. Or in the case of a couple months ago with the much needed and insane quality cab / IR update, a huge Christmas!
while 99% of the amps sound like crap though, the fx are worth it
Cant really compare a mega corporation like Yamaha to some shabby swedish basement company like Neural.
@@kimseniorb fortunately, you always have UA-cam to learn how to tweak it….
One more point about under-delivering of Neural DSP - they made a declaration that Nameless and Natas plugin will have delay and reverb section like later plugins. 2 years later - nothing has changed.
That's weird. They mentioned the Cali was gonna get delay and reverb at some point. I didn't really read into it about timeframes, but then one day it happened and they provided a software update with the new FX, and I was like "wa-hey"! Weird that this hasn't happened with those two.
I bought one because it’s the perfect size. Fits right into my backpack for flight gigs. If I had more income and could afford to check another case, I would have gotten an FM9.
Also got mine when it was the original cheaper price
@@blackmetalbreadstick I got one a month ago on Demo 1600 pre-tax. Do you think these videos discourage your purchase? I do a little. But, I have faith. Could you look at the fractal that took ages to get to where it's at now? feel stupid buying it sometimes considering I had an FM3 which was too infinite
Yeah, it's what I want from a form factor and ease of use standpoint. I'm quite happy with it and have been running it for more than a year now
Form factor and easy interface are the strongest point of QC, got mine just because of compact size. If Fractal launched a flagship of this size, it would the endgame. And I would get one, even for 2500$+
@@rosthariton7930 You know there is both FM3 AND FM9.
Been thinking about the QC for recording as I really like some of the plugins (to me they have a better 'feel' than the Helix variants), but TBH I'm beginning to think about just going back to an amp and decent 412 and re-learning how to record a guitar properly :-)
The thing is the size and weight of my laptop and I can take a capture of any amp it doesn’t already have built in (digital or analog). They shouldn’t have promised the moon but I can literally just capture whatever one of the plug-ins and use it live in a box that’s lighter than anything else I’ve ever used. Not quite getting what the issue is besides some valid complaints about over-promising).
My tube amps are not overpromising and pedals are doing the rest (either analog or if you want to go digital go Strymon - they deliver). For recording a reactive load will do the trick (Suhr). This works and will not result in electronic waste like the QC not too far away in the future.
It’s funny that you uploaded this. Neural just sent an email out today asking for people to do surveys about the quad cortex
10:42 I don't know, Chapman seems to have sold plenty of British Standards without the promised feature of them... existing
Very fair, very smart, and very honest assessment. Thank you. I had bought the Plini plug-in years ago and was happy with it... When they introduced the QC, it had my interest - but I wasn't going to pre-order something that wasn't ready for prime time. Sadly, it still isn't ready. At least, not enough to win my confidence to purchase. Thanks again for your solid angle on this situation. I still believe in Neural, but they need to rectify this; especially for those that purchased something that the company knew wasn't ready.
I've had my quad cortex for a little while now and while I love it, I can't deny that it's disappointing how NDSP is letting it fall behind the competition
You're the only person I know that would count how many posts a company has on Facebook! Keep up the fantastic work!
Many of these problems are marketing mistakes. The actual unit itself as used in the real world is excellent. I personally love it. The ui alone is ground breaking and the tones are fantastic. I have used it at over 100 gigs. I’ve only had a couple of issues relating to power. As far as a desk top editor, it’s not needed with the touchscreen. All of these issues are not really that big of a deal. The quad cortex is an excellent piece of gear for the gigging and practical musician.
"Marketing mistakes" is inaccurate, at this point it's somewhere closer to "lying".
Idk I’m sure there was some capital issue as well. Now that tonemaster was released they have been pumping updates constantly now. The fact they are still not backing down from trying to make the plugins work is a good sign. But to be honest plugins don’t mean anything really cause what extra does it bring outside of effects being combined into one block. There’s plenty of headroom on the qc dsp to have way more effects than you need outside of some special blurbs like a feedback pedal or something. Doesn’t change how good the product sounds
One of the reason I bought the QC was for the use of plugins on it. But I’ve found myself really using either my own captures of amps I sold after getting it, or for an all-in-one pedal board. I love the QC as a bass rig more than a guitar rig, but that’s just me.
The company that owns Kemper were the first to provide online firmware updates for their range of synths years before they released the Kemper. It's partly why I bought a Kemper, knowing they'd support the platform as long as they're in business.
I’ll support Kemper as long as they continue their mentality of wringing the best the can out of the hardware, instead of releasing new hardware every 2-3 years and locking features to it. The fact that the Kemper is 11 years old and basically the same hardware is commendable, and keeps people from having to chase the dragon, as it were.
kemper is horse crap
Bro they took about 10years to release an app for the kemper.
@@some_g333 why the hell do you need a phone app anyways? There was already a computer program, or you can do everything on the unit itself. They weren't even promising a phone app.
The app is superfluous. Been professionally using the Kemper for years and never even thought about needing a phone app to get the most out of it.
@@TheRustedShackleford I meant the editor software, which is industry standard and has been for years.
Besides the Quad Cortex issue, Neural DSP also needs to address two issues with their plug-ins. 1) No central hub software to house all the different gear pieces accumulated from the many plug-ins, so you're forced to have to open up many instances of the various plug-ins just to be able to use the gear pieces in them together. 2) For a company that's supposed to be on the cutting-edge, the drop-down menu for presets browsing/management system is laughably archaic and cumbersome to use compared to other products on the market like Amplitube, Guitar Rig, and many others, where you can easily sort by category, genre, mood, and search/tag presets, without the annoying problem of accidentally clicking away from the drop-down menu.
The “no central hub software” argument means nothing to most people. These companies all make dogshit software, so I’d rather know whether a device is good enough straight out of the box. The software is always dull
All valid points.
Although I love both my Kemper and Quad Cortex, (for what I bought and use them for) my main problem with the Quad Cortex is, that I can't switch presets without audio dropouts. You have to program multiple amps and drives into one scene and program switches inside that scene to cover multiple sounds or even toggle between clean and rhythm sounds. This makes it really hard to program a show and makes adjusting details a real pain. Sometimes I lose track of what scene I'm in or have to switch to next.
Overall i have to state, that Kemper was the exact same in the beginning. I was an early adopter in both cases (buying a unit when it was brand new on the market) and Kemper didn't deliver features they promised right from the start. I had a conversation at NAMM Frankfurt in 2011 where I was told they were planning on creating for example a guitar synth inside the Kemper, which never happened. Also there are LEDs on the remotes which have no use until today, so I guess Kemper was planning on adding features that have been cancelled. Kemper just never promised anything like this publicly.
At the end of the day you should always only buy equipment if it suits your needs at the point of purchase. None of these features (at least for me) is a must have, luckily. I'm sorry for everyone who expected it to be there from the start.
Use scenes or hybrid mode.
@@JackR617 yeah, i do use scenes. but it really feels like a workaround instead of a perfect solution.
Quad Cortex:The STAR CITIZEN of the guitar world since 2020!
Hey Kelan, i don't know if this is coincidence or not but there is another content creator on this platform who reviewed one of their units, one of these units. After an in depth review, that was totally honest, he's a good guy, he say's NDSP threatened him and he took the review down. Glad you are asking why things are getting a little sub standard, folk listen to you. Great stuff as always , thanks.
Do you know who the YT was?
@@mrscourtneyward I'm curious too!
Can confirm, I know exactly who you’re talking about. We’ve been talking to him about coming to TheGearForum to do an AMA and he mentioned it to a couple of us now, among other things.
@@DrewJD please let us know if/when it drops, would love to hear the story
@@hortazonw395 I know who it is but I'm a little dubious of telling folk who he is. Please understand he took the review down because of threats. He's older than most of us and he's UK midlands. That's as much as I'm saying. It's not for me to give his name out. I will say this. I have watched loads of his reviews and he does a deep dive, boards out the lot. That should be all the clues you need. I did ask him about what had happened but he didn't want to talk about it on this platform. Anyway guys I hope you understand. It's not right for me to name him.
This is partly why I stick with standalone pedals. Also because I'm simple.
Another killer video. You do great work.
Same here. Sticking to pedals and combos. This technology, and the companies that design it, still have to mature. There are too many lumps in the gravy. In a studio I think plugins can be really cool for gettting a variety of consistent tones. But if I can't edit the tones at home before taking them out in a pedal or rack system for gigs I'm not interested. I spend a lot of time dialing in the right tone. DSP without a desktop editor is just a turkey.
I have analog pedals plus switcher and hx stomp for amps. And that’s it.
You are correct there’s no excuse for the lack of plugin port. They *knew* it was going to be hard ! They literally had to build DSP for 2 different architectures when they made the cortex , so they *knew* it wasn’t going to be a simple copy paste.
Which points back to the mssg in this video, the QC is not their priority. They are putting the effort on other products.
The problem is it’s not hard. Any competent software developer can support DSP plugins across multiple architectures and operating systems.
I have a feeling they are actually working on the licensing and packaging for the firmware.
Great name
It’d probably do a lot of people some good to read Doug’s posts on TGP, where the plug-in feature was born. Things would make a lot more sense when they’d see he was handing out promises and features like a taping of Oprah. He straight up said “No problem, it’s just a matter of…”
What can be seen by his posts is that he has a surface level understanding of what the developers needed to do and I suspect that’s the main reason he’s no longer communicating anything about development himself. He was writing checks NDSP couldn’t cash for nearly 2 years on TGP, the day after it started shipping he stopped posting.
@@apropostt it **is** hard (or can be) with the M1 released we’ve seen devs struggle for months of not years to make an ARM compatible plugin. Depending how it’s made, it can require a full rewrite which can be an extremely hazardous task
Good video that cuts through the hype (as usual). I had a QC pre-ordered, but as the unit got closer to release, it became apparent that many of the key features were vaporware. I've been waiting for these issues to get sorted, and along comes Tonex. The quality of the tones that can be produced, the flexible, open nature of the eco system, and the price point finally allowed me to make the leap into the digital realm. QC is off my radar at this point.
Fantastic video! Nailed every point and shortcoming. Also, never thought I'd see myself in one of these vids. 🤣
Yes .. I am VERY DISAPPOINTED with the empty promises.
I am leading the charge by petitioning Long and McQuade Music Canada, my point of purchase, for a FULL REFUND. I suggest WE ALL DO THIS.
I want a FULL REFUND - as no one wants to buy it with all these issues.
Constantly putting out plug-ins that are useless to me with my QC adds insult to injury.
The cell phone 'only' app is ridiculous, where's the PC option?
and they are 'working hard' to do something with Apple. - wtf.
OH .. and the ridiculously WEAK wifi is total shyt.
With my QC literally sitting right next to my WIFI it's drops connection constantly.
Me and my buddy both use QC (only one for both, bass and guitar).
We originally bought it so we could use our already existing plug ins. Especially the Gojira and Parallaxe, wich we would love to use in a band situation.
But right now, we are actually considering to sell our unit if that feature doesn't drop soon and just continue to use our HX stomps'.
100% agreed - same with the plethora. Bought it on a lie that it would be continuously updated and so far we've gotten midi, a different delay and that's about it. They're super defensive about it too.
Well the Quad Cortex is doing awesome now. You can capture amps, vst plugins from your DAW, Neural DSP plug-ins and pedals, and it's sick.
Very valid points! Hopefully someone from Neural will see this and crack the whip! I’d like to see these features added to the QC 🙂
I am a Quad Cortex owner and PERSONALLY I really love it. I use a pretty massive rig with everything being in stereo (input and a WDW guitar amp setup inside the quad cortex) and compared to every other modeler this one fits my needs best. People say don’t buy tech on promises and that’s ABSOLUTELY TRUE, I didn’t. I bought mine based on what I saw online and thoroughly enjoyed what I got, and I honestly think that the QC is going to get the plugin support this year. They’ve sent out emails talking about what is and isn’t happened and I get the sense that they’re not only embarrassed by the current situation but they’re working on fixing it and I wouldn’t be surprised if we got the plugin support by the end of 2023, early 2024. That sounds like a long time but it’s almost April, I think it could realistically happen so here’s hoping!
Tbh it’s probably great. But people always complain. Its more of a corporate problem, don’t promise anything. Roll out the updates when they are done. Then you can mention them, at least that’s my 2 cents.
With this said I’m sure everything will be fine. The hardware seems solid, software is always software it can be updated many times.
@@Acekorv I agree with you, it was stupid to promise the stuff before it was actually done, maybe the dev team thought it would be done by release but something came up and the optics change but IDC. The Quad is the best floor modeler on the market IMO, and if you say the helix has better effects then you could always go get something like an HX Effects or a Stomp XL and use that. That’s what I’m going to be doing!
@@matthewbehrle4428 could be other things as well I’ve seen that Neural DSP has been hiring a lot. I think they are understaffed and growing so quickly that it’s hard to keep up combined with underestimating the work it takes to get the programming to work seamlessly with the hardware.
Because as soon as you put a bunch of stuff into a box you have limitations and I believe there’s lots of that going on as well on how to optimize the code running with as little processing power as possible. This is just a guess of course I don’t know or claim to have any information about it but something along those lines
However I do know that Finnish people are very thorough and this could also be a factor, they don’t want to drop “shitty update” or “patches”
I think the hardware is spot on and the ios and the user interface. I don’t own one myself but boy is there crappy music UI:s out there that just destroys the whole product. Quad Cortex is def not one of them.
my buddy uses one live into a power amp and 4x12 cab. He's very happy with his and it sounded great in the PA mix.
I can't believe how much better the unit is today based on when I bought it. I thought it was great when I bought it. Made me drop amps, and I never thought that would happen. I bought it right after it came out. They have continuously updated it over the last three years. Every update makes the unit better. Now we have the Desk Top editor which is excellent. Software updates take time, I think Neural has done a great job and they are still at it. New amps, new pedals, are still coming. IF it doesn't do what you want then don't buy it till it does.
I got the QC in September 2021 to replace my Helix Floor, very aware that I was, and still am to some extent, a beta tester getting an "unfinished" product.
My main "selling point" was having similiar processing power and routing options as the Helix in a much smaller and lighter package as well as the option to profile/capture amps.
I was tempted in the past to ditch the QC for a Fractal FM3/FM9 or go back to the Helix and am still strongly thinking about especially if another year goes past without NDSP delivering on their pre release promises, because to me it seems they value their plugins more than their only hardware product, that supposedley was the "one target" they tried to achieve all along.
That would be a shame, because all in all it is a very good unit...
im selling my helix floor aswell to get wuad cortex ,do you think i shouldnt do it ? i only play indoor , sometimes gigs , or mates house ,helix is just too big for me ,i discover QC adter bought helix
@@mrblues1981 I can not give a clear cut answer, as it depends on what you want.
With the Helix(and other similar units from Line6) you get a pretty much „finished“ product with little to no problems to be expected.
The Quad Cortex is still somewhat in its infancy, both in software as well as knowing how durable it is on the road.
Maybe have a look at the Line6 HX Stomp XL if that fits your needs, otherwise I‘d stick with the Helix for now.
My opinion about the QC, is that despite still being a competent unit for guitar/bass rigs, it's very very far from a mature state, and a lot of features were delivered way too late, significantly watered down, with some promises still not delivered, e.g., plugin compatibility.
In a few years, if it does "grow up", I'm still willing to give it a go, but for now, I'm sticking with my Helix.
Yeah because i buy a 2K piece of hardware to run computer based plugins on. When the piece of hardware (QC) has 20+ captures of the same amp used in the 100 dollar plugin. Why would anyone care about such a feature? Everything that is in the software based computer plugins are offered on the QC in many many many different flavors....
Agreed for sure. I've had one for just over a year. I love it but it is lacking many features that it should have had from the get-go. The longer it takes them to update, the worst it's going to get for them as there are going to be other competitors upgrading and raising the bar
I feel like they just said stuff they knew we wanted than didn't do it thinking we would be happy with the fact that it sounded good.
it did sound good but it has such a small option list of amps when it came out I refused to pay for it. plus my axe fx has a new beta that added so much literally a few days ago. how is a unit that's years old is contently getting new stuff and changes and improvements but a newer product takes forever for even a small update.
and let's not forget the axe fx 3 was recoded from the ground up several times so its not like its using some older code.
@@VapnFagan If you're okay buying a pricey piece of gear that doesn't deliver everything it was promised to do then hey...more power to you. However, that's not how a lot of people roll and just as rightfully so.
@@Schatje79 He has to justify spending all the benjamins that he did on it. It's a natural reaction 🤣
Thx, man, for taking the role of the industry's conscience and critical observer!
What is the fanned fret blue guitar behind you? Looks beautiful. I've been looking for a good FF 6 string.
I'll be honest I haven't tried a Quad Cortex out yet but watching videos of people demoing it I do like the simplicity of it compared to Kemper etc.
Check out tone x
@@anidemolimacnauj Tonex isn't even in the same class. It does amp captures, adds EQ, and simple reverb/compressor. The others are all-in-one units.
@@jaykemper Precisely, for what a QC costs you can buy the Tonex and a used QC or the Tonex, a laptop, a midi controller and plugins for whatever you want or the Tonex plus a bunch of pedals ... you get the idea. I was considering the QC but I honestly now see at as a poor value proposition.
@@jaykemper eeehh with how low the cost of the tonex is you can get an HX Effects with it for like half the price of kemper/qc and arguable do more, although I can see the appeal of an all in one unit for simplicity's sake.
@@jaykemper Agreed. Tonex is nowhere near comparable. It' covers about 5% of what QC covers. That being said if someone already has a full pedal board with everything they'll ever need, then it's not necessarily such a bad option. My biggest isssue with Tonex is that the captures on the ToneNET are horrible.
I have another guess. Neural DSP has figured out the the ability to match the desktop plugin models simply isn’t possible with the current hardware of the Quad Coretex. They’re waiting for a long enough span of time for them to say it’s time for a hardware refresh, and with that new fresh comes the plug-in feature that simply wasn’t possible with the V1 Quad Cortex hardware.
How old of a processor can easily do plug ins… like seriously? QC don’t have the hardware BAHAHAHAHA
Kemper (Access) essentially made the virus ti 2 va synthesiser that had a software editor (which is why it was so class leading) over 10 years ago lol.
Shame they discontinued it as the virus ti 3 would have sold sooooo many bloody units, I guess it didn't fit into their financial business plan to do so. Shame.
All speculation of course, though I only raise it in response to the processor plugin capability comment 😂 I'm aware we are talking guitar effects / amp modeler processors
I loved this video! And it is absolutely important that the community holds these companies to their words! If I had bought the QC with the expectation of these features being added, I would indeed be disappointed. Having said that, I own a QC and a couple of the plugins, but quite honestly, the plugin integration wasn't at all what sold me on the QC. I bought it because it sounds amazing, and its SO easy to use, transport, and gig with (I've not touched the plugins I own since acquiring the QC, because to my ear, the QC is simply better). I must also say, with the way I use the QC at home I've never felt the need for a desktop editor, which would kinda (in my mind) defeat the purpose of having such an intuitive UI and control system built into the QC. And to be quite honest, even if they never added plugin integration, a desktop editor, or even another pedal, amp, or anything. I suspect I'd likely still use this for years to come (wear and tear permitted). I use this every day, it does everything I've ever asked of it, and I'm yet to even explore completely the depth of options it currently has to offer. I suspect, if potential CQ customers wanted the AxeFX experience, with all the options, and controls it affords its users, the solution would be to get an AxeFX. The QC may not have everything it was touted to eventually have, but for what it's worth, from one internet stranger to another, I would still recommend this unit without hesitation, and would myself buy it again. It is a beast, even without the features mentioned in the video!
Facts!
I dunno trying to convince yourself you spent 2k on a “beast” would read like that.. again to your ear supposedly QC sounds better but you haven’t bought any new plug ins-which could be 100 times better now and blow away what the QC has. If that was the case…it’s subjective until it’s not. Plus this way their revenue stream never thins into only qc buys. I. think they most definitely need to hire a couple more hard working engineers SPECIFICALLY just for the QC; if I heard that they did indeed pick up some hard working geniuses who are stoked to work and not play guitar and their sm is blowing up every day with out fail maybe I would then buy one. But they screwing a lot of people still i believe.
@@6nosis no I think he said what he meant. It’s easy to use with the UI. Sounds and feels more amp like and it is better than a plug in. It’s a great piece of gear. I love mine.
It's cool that you like the unit, but the video was about what Neural promised and didn't deliver. I own QC as well, but it's biggest advantage over Fractal is size and weight.
@@rosthariton7930 the UI though makes it super simple to get a good sound. Too much tweaking on the axe fx. Although, I think that’s the only other modeler that’s as good. Lots of these companies promised things at the beginning and took yrs to implement. I’m going by the modeler not a plug in I’ll never use. The QC has better sounds in it.
Thank you SO MUCH! This needed to be said and called out. I have a QC. Was one if the first to have one BECAUSE it was suppose to get plugin compatibility. Years later, I still love my QC but am very frustrated by the lack of the feature promised and the lack if a desktop manager. Idk if I’ll trust NDSP again.
Your opinion seems to be a familiar one, "I love my QC, but...".
I hope they don't destroy their reputation over a promise they never actually had to make. It sounds like the QC stands on its own without the plug in promises, they just may not have made as many sales on release.
I read in another comment that this sounds like a cash flow issue, and I tend to agree. I mean, why else would this not have been sorted?
@@castleanthrax1833 Idk if it was cash flow. I think it was more about assigning resources and prioritization. They've released several plug in since QC came out and according to one of their recent reports, the teams will be focusing on getting to features for the QC.
They didn't have to make those promises, but they did. Also, the QC sounds great but so does the Kemper and other modelers and especially the ones that can capture amps. Plug In integration can give the QC the edge to win. It sets Neural apart.
@@figu7716 I didn't realise that they had solved the plugin integration issue?
Also can't wait for the new NN update for old plugins (pre-whichever plugin was the first with it, the SLO or something around then). Hopefully they polish up the entire product line and simultaneously integrate those same captures as things that you can load into a QC using your Neural DSP account.
This did not age well
He wasn't wrong lol
Neural DSP's lack of updates or even a desktop editor still are beyond astounding and I am glad I never got one.
I now humbly play with an HX stomp and ToneX pedal duo! Very great setup.
Dude! I was just about to buy one…awesome I just came across this! 💪🏽😌
The one and only reason why I bought QC is that it sounds good... everything that will be part of some future period will only be a plus for me. I won't go into details, but the editor is not as important as someone who uses Kemper
Tonex has to be cheaper because it doesn't have nearly the options that QC has
Headrush prime is a new product and we have yet to see how the captures option works.
I won't even compare it with helix because they are not at the same level
I say all this as someone who has tried everything and has been using Kemper for live gigs for 10 years.
if it sounds good, that's enough for me...
Hit the nail on the head (as normal)..... All that said, I love my QC and have a lot of plugins too but I didn't buy the QC with a view to using the plugins on it. I'm glad you mentioned Kemper in comparison because it took a good few years of development to get it to its full potential & I fully expected the QC to follow a similar development path. I understand why some might be frustrated with all the up front promises they made but I bought it on the strength of what it could do out of the box at the time I bought it & its the single best piece of gear I've ever purchased. I've had Kempers, Axe FX 2 & 3 and Helix too, they all have a leg up over the QC in one respect or another but none sound as good IMHO. I'm aware its a long game with the QC & happy to take it as it is & reap the benefits as & when the updates roll out.
I have had a QC for a while, and although I am disappointed, I still can't use the plug-ins, I am more than happy with everything else with the unit and have been happy with the updates.
In my opinion it is the best choice still over the likes of axe fx and helix as it is much simpler and quicker to use and sounds great, but as far as sound goes, all these modellers sound great and with a bit of tweaking are just as good as each other.
I did find my Kemper with the right profiles sounded better than all of the above mentioned, but the Kemper is a pain in the ass to use too many knobs and buttons everywhere.
Overall, Neural have a long list still to deliver, but I am happy with my purchase and love how easy to use and more importantly, so compact and easy to take anywhere.
I have the axe and my brother has the cortex. I like the axe better. What the cortex has built in sounds good but no desktop editor is a big no no from me.
I’m more than happy with my Boss MS-3.
I held off on getting the QC because of the reverb/ echo carry over issue where the signal would cut between presets. I wonder if anything major came out of that (outside of an entire rig in one preset)
Never. Ever. Buy a tech product based on the promise of future software updates. - Marques Brownlee 2021
I bought one when the first became available in February 2021 and it's a good product for what it was and that's what I bought it for. If anything gets added, sweet. If they released a QC2, I wouldn't buy it immediately.
I also bought a Kemper and used it once. Far too complicated.
you can apply this to the Universal Audio OX too. I love mine and it sounds great (I haven't played with a real cab in years!) but still has crappy wifi connectivity only to an iPad, an USB port that doesn't work and tons of stuff underdelivered.
I didn’t know anything about the plug-ins when I bought my QC. I bought it based on reviews from seasoned guitarist that I trust confirming that it bridged the gap between tone and “feel” that my original AxeFX lacked. I must say, for me, the QC delivers. Feels like an amp in the room with a ton of awesome tones. If plugins or a desk top editor never materialize I’m all good.
What do you mean feels like an amp in the room? Are u plugging to a power amp and cab?
@@kembooo000 the return fx and a real guitar cab. It still feels better than the Kemper and helix. It still has a great ui and sounds better. I did not have that experience with the kemper. It feels stiff and it’s not for me. Tons of Kemper’s for sale and helix’s on reverb. It FEELS AND SOUNDS BETTER IMO.
I bought the QC several months ago and it’s a great unit but it has been way too long for these features to release. The world of modelers is getting spicy, recently with the Headrush Prime. Kemper and Fractal will have an answer as well, NDSP needs to get on top of their game and deliver
It some point the modelling community will become the next tube amp corksniffers.
@@BETAsin In what way do you mean?
@@BETAsin It is the nature of guitar players...they are a silly lot. We are talking about a community that sees one video about a pedal and starts buying said pedal for ridiculous amounts of money (a pedal that was resoundingly unpopular for almost 2 decades). Stupid. All the modeling platforms have pros and cons and that market has really not matured yet. I expect with the overall quality of the products that NDSP makes that they will step it up with the QC and hire more developers and designers to get the promises fulfilled. Their goal should be to do it sooner rather than later. However, the cork-sniffer comment is spot on - you are going to see more and more videos of people comparing the modelers and saying "I can tell the difference between and ToneX model and a Neural model and a Fractal model.....blah blah blah. All these people who have been listening to loud music for 20-30 years suddenly have perfect hearing!
@@DanielBobke one day JHS is going to ab a line 6 spider and a , and the market will explode again.
@@mrcoatsworth429 the “my special sticker chakra aligned 5150 is better than the 5150 made today” discussion will be replaced by “the JCM800 model in x modeller is more authentic than y modeller” even though realistically no one knows which is which in a full mix.
Well said. Quad Cortex is the Cyberpunk 2077 of modelers and Neural DSP is the CDPR of guitar gear manufacturers.
Cyberpunk is a lot better now.
@@PaulLembo That is what I heard, havent played it in over a year.
This
@@PaulLembo I agree, there's actually a lot to like, and it has improved since launch. Same goes for the Quad Cortex, from what I gather. But even as good as Cyberpunk is now, it's still nowhere near at the level it was hyped at by CDPR.
Have you even tried the quad? If not how do you post anything about how it works?
The lack of plug in support is annoying but can be overcome somewhat by downloading user uploaded captures of the amps in the plugins.
I haven't bought the plug-ins but I've just been able to download the emulated ones off of the cloud and they sound great
My guess is the plugin compatibility and desktop editor will drop at the same time the Quad Cortex 2 does. I have a feeling this is an intentional move as 5-6 years is right about the time when most brands will drop a rev 2 or XL model.
Yeah that's what Headrush did with the big pedal board. They promised a bunch of stuff for this board and doesn't deliver, instead all of us Headrush pedal board users got stiffed and have to buy that new prime Headrush which is bullshit !!!!
The QC is basically a computer with buttons and ports. Even the most complex models and effects only utilise around 20% processor. It will be a long time before they need to release another unit with greater capacity. Kemper is still going strong a decade later. No reason why this unit can't do the same.
@@DeanEGardiner Exactly right.
@@DeanEGardiner wasn't the multivoicer only have 2 voices? that sounds like bullshit saying it only use 20%
@alexamder hamiltom The QC has a CPU monitor, so my comment was based on my experience with actual usage. You can certainly build patches that consume all CPU with multi amp configs. Effects in general are the QCs weakest point, no idea why multivoicer is only 2 voice,. Unlikely to be hardware limitation because other modellers are able to do this on a single Sharc core. My feeling this is just another case of porting issues from the plug ins.
You never fail to make a great video, man. As a QC owner you hit the nail on the head! I love my
QC but the future of it has started to worry me somewhat.
Great summary, love your work!
I have a QC and I absolutely love it, stellar amps and connectivity, the effects are very good and programming is simple. As for the updates etc.... well at the time of buying I didn't choose it above Fractal or Kemper for for what it was going to be able to do in the future,. I bought it because I loved what it could do at the time. I'm sure I'm not in a minority here either, I don't know many other QC owner who bought the unit on the strength of what was promised. I'm sure there are people out there who did exactly that though and while Neural didn't live up to their promises the old adage 'buyer beware' springs to mind. I would never rely on any future promises from any company for a product I was buying...there are just too many variables to take into consideration and too many things that can go wrong. They did release a major firmware upgrade a few months back which was a big improvement so I do believe they are making an effort., but we'll see how that goes.. Anyway, love the channel and your impartiality. must catch your band when I'm up in the big smoke next, sláinte 🤘
Pretty much me too. It sounded great in the beginning with an interface that made sense. Any updates are perks for me. Zero issues here.
This is exactly it for me. The Helix always seemed too clunky and antiquated. It has the right features and a decent price, but is super clunky, slow, and bloated in my opinion. Kemper is worse; it has not aged well.
The QC got rid of the goofy scribble strips and the mandatory expression pedal, made it much easier to use without sacrificing power and functionality, and gave it Amp Capturing and WiFi (I mean, I could do with out the massive data leaks, but Cloud IRs and on-the-fly firmware updates are pretty great).
Anything that they add at this point is just a bonus for me, but then again, we're all looking for different things in our gear.
Extremely interesting video. Been thinking for a long time now if I should get a Quad Cortex. Now I will be thinking even longer 😂
I think one of the mistakes is that all devices are expected to do the same thing...what's the point then? One of the major reasons I got a QC is precisely that it doesn't have or require a desktop editor, that it's easy to use, and can be pretty much treated and used like an overgrown pedal. I'm an 80's cromag, when I have some time to play I want to plug and play, not tweak on the computer for hours, scratch my head trying to figure out what is what, etc. The QC is able to do a ton of stuff, I will likely never use 80% of its power, but it can also be used in a very simple manner to great effect. I purchased a Boss ME-5 back in 89 and started my gear nerd thing and the very long list of gear I have tested and owned over the years, the QC is the only multi fx EVER where I have found it easier to build a preset from scratch rather than tweaking an existing one, that says volumes. Out of the box I was able to dial a great tone in less than 3 minutes without reading the manual. So I think that is defo one of its greatest strengths, making the new tech accessible for us who have the more old school approach of guitar into pedal into amp -> dzoiing krank rumble :D
Just bought one knowing all this.stil worth it. So many options and so many captures to entertain me for who knows how long.
I'm commenting for the algorithm. Great vid!
Great video. Thanks for taking the time. I'll stick with my ampero 2 stomp.
QC IS DOPE - Best piece of gear I've ever spent money on - and some new features are coming soon or sooner -
I have had my QC since June of '21, almost 2 years now. While I absolutely love it and do think it is better than it's competitors based on experience, I think Neural has grown too comfortable relying on the hardcore fans to defend their lackluster development of the product. It sounds phenomenal as is, but the thing is capable of so much more if the development team had better leadership or maybe even talent running things. While I do love mine, and probably would never sell it, I am fairly disappointed in certain aspects of how the company is handling these issues you mentioned. The push for new plugins could be that they happened upon a good contract and had to focus their efforts on it to get it released, but it is concerning from a corporate point of view in that this type of behavior could mean that the company is possibly experiencing financial issues. Pure speculation on my end, but business is what I do, and when a business needs cash it focuses on the easiest cash generation and/or cuts in budget. But, I do hold hope that they are actually working on these things for update releases this year.
A valid theory indeed. ✌️
Interesting take. I'm biased to Fractal. I just don't believe the other processes sound as good.
@@espojespo5 fractal is amazing as well. I’ve had all 3 and they all 3 sound great. But to me the QC just edges them out. Genre might matter. I play blues, so cleans and edgy stuff, and it’s my choice piece of gear for it. Although my choice was also influenced by my dislike for the other’s workflows.
@@espojespo5 tried Helix and Fractal both great but I have to admit that the QC not only sounds better but it feels better too. On top of that you get a good tone out of the box. Anyway is my opinion but is great to have many options.
Well, its got a better touch screen, but thats about all that is better at this point. The ToneX is better for captures and the Fractal is better for models. I'd sell while its reasonable and move on.
I see your points and they are valid. They are about bad marketing and bad communication. But not all bought the QC for the same reason (plugin compatibility or whatever). Sure the first batch of buyers got somehow fooled but got a nice product, that works. But all the customers, that bought the QC later, know that there are flaws and maybe bought it for other reasons. Like more channels, easy to operate, size, modeling and profiling etc. I would like to see the plugin compatibility feature in the (near) future, but I never relied on the feature, when I bought it. I don't see NDSP going for "easy plugin money" instead of pushing the QC further.
We should also mention Neural Amp Modeler - Free and Open source amp capturing/pedal capturing plugin for Windows and Mac.
I'm so glad you finally made this video. As a QC owner, to say I'm frustrated with NDSP is an understatement. Started with getting a broken unit, to getting a cheap ass toy of a PSU with grounding issues, to not getting the promised features, to finding a very big security vulnerability that hasn't been fixed months later, to getting banned on their discord for making my own firmware with THEIR promised features. Probably the worst experience I've had buying a product. What is even better is that there is an army of fanboys defending these things with their life.
Fan boys are fan boys becuase people hate to admit they made an expensive mistake. I should have bought an AXE FX. It already does the stuff that Neural promised, even if it's in a more unweildy package. One lives and learns.
@@Justin_the_Analog_IC_architect FM9 had a 9+ month back order, that's the only reason I kept the QC.
Sounds like Gibson products.
"to getting banned on their discord for making my own firmware with THEIR promised features"
Tbh you should know better. This is not only a license agreement violation, but also a risk for Neural if their customers start installing random shady 3rd party hacks.
That being said I'm actually quite curious about this. Do you have a GitHub repo for this?
Yup..the Boss type power adapter was a huge red flag I noticed right off and knew that was something that they could never fix.
Love mine, sounds awesome, simple to use , does what I need it to.
tell that you lack some conscience and critical thinking without telling that...
@@Sabbra why because we like it? It sounds great. Feels great and it’s great UI? I bought two. And I’m still an amp user. The Kemper lacks feeling and sound. It just approved a so called easier to use with ur cell last year. If you want that it’s about an extra $50-100’s to get the right equipment. They never responded to anyone re that issue they don’t respond at all. Neural responds asap and takes care not only the QC bought used but if you have an issue of any kind they will fix it for free and pay for shipping n pay both ways and they get it back to u in a few days. Try that with the dead weight Kemper. Go get one on reverb there’s quite a few and helix’s and axe fx’s. Tweak away on ur computer. There’s only a handful of qc’s for sale. Don’t buy it if you just want your plug ins when the modeler sounds better. You lack critical thinking. I’m betting you’ve never used a great real life amp. You’ve only heard digital plug ins on a computer you’re whole life. I’m comparing mine to great amps. I also didn’t buy great gear until I deserved it. Meaning I can play more than chugging.
@@Utubesup7890 another one jezzz.... yeah keeping licking your own balls to justify your purchase....
people cant damn interpret what they hear and read, the guy is criticizing the fact that the company doesn't keep its promises and you come here to say how much do you like the sound of the pedal? What does this have to do with the video? goshh
@@SabbraI’d say you do. If it’s great and we own it and you don’t how would you know anything about it?
Supposedly you can capture a plug-in with the QC, and I have downloaded a preset off the sharing site that sounded pretty good, but don’t own the original plugin to compare it to.
I mean for me I’m happy with what it does already what more do I need it to do ?
I agree with this video.. saying that I’ve been using a Helix for 7 years took the risk and bought a Quad Cortex 2 months ago. I can assure that the QC sounds so much better and feels more like a real amp that the Helix is collecting dust. Is so much easier to get a good sound too.
Helix still have the edge in features but the sound is more important to me and I really hate to tweak a lot to get a good sound and the QC fixed that.
Tone X is cheaper but a totally different product. In my case I’m not going back to analog pedals.
I rarely use the HX edit so I’m not worry about the editor.
The quad has a ton of stuff in it to keep me busy for a long time. Let the whiners whine while we enjoy it.
This is actually kind of ridiculous if im being honest. It is not a cheap unit, and for them to demand a premium price, we should demand a premium experience espescially when its things that are promised. Moreover, the software aspect from a predominantly software company seems sus. I appreciate you KDH, youre becoming the TotalBiscuit of guitar.
this is a good video. I am one of the QC users who never got into plugins, bc my use case doesn’t really call for it. But i do think that this video will serve as a wake-up call to the company.
Fractal audio is top of the line
I’ve used Kemper for 5 years and don’t see myself moving on for another 5 years. The Quad Cortex was a competitor, I was tempted, but it lacks the kind of professional presets that are readily available for Kemper.
I think the most concerning point is instead of applying themselves and solving the issue of "difficulty" regarding the qc plugin compatability as well as the editor; they keep creating new plugins for profit (which is understandable) however alot of these products bring you a new modeled head but the fx pedals cabs are mostly recycled...creating a platform where you can purchase just the head or just the cabs and be able to run it with your existing purchased digital fx pedals etc. Would be a great idea, and should have been released by now
It’s simply not their strategy. Please pay full price for almost identical plug-in plus wammy or pitch shifter or whatever is new compared to the one you already bought. Neh. I bought 4 NDSP plugins. Enough.
The Plethora X5 was also sold without claimed features , and seems nearly abandoned as well even with the X3 coming out the both seem kinda forgotten by TC
Great video! I don’t have a Quad Cortex and I have several Neural DSP plugins. I love how they sound but they definitely deserve criticism. Many have pointed out that some of their plugins are very similar. They have done some groundbreaking things, but I do feel like they could improve and actually deliver on their promises
The few people I know that have the Quad Cortex love it for it's modeling features. I hadn't heard anything until now about downloading the plugins onto it. As for the effects, the unit is compact enough to incorporate into a pedalboard and users will simply add their favorite pedals around it and mainly just use the amp models and IR's from the Quad Cortex. Similar to how I've seen people use some of the Helix units, but the QC supposedly has some more robust features that those users really seem to like.
I have no skin in this game so far, but it seems the ability to download existing plugins to the device would be cool, but as far as I'm concerned it's main selling point has been (or at least they pivoted to) the modeling capabilities within the unit itself, and there are probably existing repositories of QC captured models you can download already, such that you don't even need to think about putting the plugins on there, but I don't have one in my hands so I don't know sh*t about F*ck.
As a QC owner myself i gotta say it took a little while, but i believe after CoreOS 2.0 came out, they will start prioritising the things mentioned in the video. All though, it sounds awesome and works really well for me and my band. I think the future will come sooner or later anyways! :')
So they sold you a product that they lied about while advertising it initially?
Thanks for this. I will have a look at other amp modelers.
I have a Kemper Stage and I've been considering switching it for a QC purely because I find the Kemper's interface such a pain in the arse to navigate and the QC's looks a lot less of a headache. I'm genuinely surprised there hasn't been a Kemper 2 yet that has put a touchscreen or something on it; perhaps they feel that there hasn't been any appreciable improvements in the sonic side to really justify it.
I pre-ordered a QC at launch and still love it. I have no complaints still in 2023 and its only going to get better with updates.
Im sure it's a cool piece of gear, but what this video about is a very real complaint about it. QC was supposed to make the plugin library live in the box. It doesn't.
dare i say, NDSP's No Man's Sky moment but instead of addressing the issue they're too busy on a tangent of releasing another artist Archetype plugin.
There are several reasons why I cancelled my QC order. Lack of plugin support and desktop editor were two of them.
For the record, the H90 was released with promises of a bluetooth enabled and a mobile editor. No idea when that will actually happen.
Things I didn't agree with: It seems to be a common commentary to break the QC down to just capturing. I find it very odd to compare it to the ToneX. The QC has so many features beyond what that, or the headrush can do. For me, the biggest deal is the routing capabilities. I can run my guitar through multiple different amps, and caps,either in serial or parallel. So, many studio tricks I can use right there inside the box. I honestly do not believe a desk top editor is all that important and I question whether most people would actually use it. The interface on the QC is second to none.
Things I agree: communication, communication, communication. For a company that is so small and supposedly close to the community, they are terrible with communication. Something I really do not understand.
+1
I was impressed when I was explained about the QC during 2020 NAMM Show… but then promises weren’t delivered.
PS I was the one in Adidas jacket interviewing the dude 😂 I’m glad you used part of my video.