The Future Of Guitar Amps
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2024
- It's hard to predict what the future will hold for the guitar amp. But there are definitely changes happening. Some believe that amp modellers will be the future, though I disagree. While I'm a fan of modellers, I personally see a bright future for the combo amp.
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Timestamps
0:00 Intro
0:40 The Combo
2:12 Marshall Stack
2:43 Lunchbox Amps
4:50 Amp modellers
6:02 FRFR
7:11 My Prediction
7:30 Volume
8:28 Sound
9:36 Weight
11:27 Looks
I love how guitarists in 2024 are OBSESSED with portability, meanwhile even the smallest 4 piece drum set is like 1000x more annoying to haul, load and setup than a half stack.
There’s a classical musician in my town who carries around his tympani with a uhaul lol
it’s just the current trend, remember that 10 years ago everyone was obsessed with their axe fx and 8 string guitars… the guitar industry is marketing at bedroom players because they most likely don’t have a definite sound so they’re most likely to get the latest online gear trend
well which is the reason why sharing the drumkit amongst bands or relying on a backline kit from the venue and only bringing cymbals and snare is the most common thing in touring. I know, because I am a live engeneer in a club without a backline kit an so I get to deal with A LOT of annoyed bands who have to bring their kit (or straightup are not able to bring their kit so I have to rent one).
*taps away at a drum machine with more than 4 drum parts*
Just imagine being Terry Bozzio's tech! Actually he needs a tech crew, and a whole semi trailer for his full kit!
Also something I forgot to mention that I've noticed is that there isn't as strong a market for 4x12 cabinets as there used to be. I can find an abundance for sale second hand at heavily discounted prices and yet they seem to sit for a very long time.
Just an observation.
I used to have 4x12 spinners stand up, and 8x4 spinners flat. Made for organs, (Deep Purple) but sounded cool for guitars.
Great content once again thanks! Also leaving it there for your own assessment, should ou get any interest in a new topic to investigate: the new version of GHS fast fret...suprisingly haven't seen this that much on UA-cam even though it seems to get a ton of complaints from their customers'base. They drastically downgraded this popular product (essential to many) while keeping prices high and bring up trendy "eco friendly" justifications while the product itself is actually way less reliable and sustainable than before. cheers
I’m really happy to hear this since I always wanted to play a show of 3 fullstacks wall of 6 4x12 speakers and for the price they always were there was no chance. Allready bought two cheap 4x12s last year but thought it was just coincidence. Now I realize there is not so big market for them. Also since having private practice place is starting to get hard and people are not able to store 4x12s. Also big part of it.
it.s the same with large and heavy combo's like a fender twin / super reverb /bassman or marshall bluesbreaker , you can buy them 2e hand for under a 1000 euro's overhere in Holland , but nobody is buying them , and now you have the fender tonemaster series wich have the same sound and are a lot lighter and more practical in many way's . so yeah , the times they are a changing .
Ton of 4x12 for sale but 2x12 cabs are harder to find used
On stage looks: I used to play in an Australian AC/DC tribute show called Accadacca and we played a car festival, Summer Nats in 2005 to a few thousand people and we got there and I said to our manager we need extra cabs on stage to look the part! It aint ACDC without the wall; we hired from the local music shop Pro Audio who supplied them for a couple of tickets to the show. We each had 3 cabs on stage, two plugged in and one was for looks. The good old days.
‘AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE!!’
Oi, that's nothing... I once saw Yngwie Malmsteen at the state theatre in Sydney.
Man that was such a big wall that the US could just put Yng on their southern border!!
I couldn’t imagine being that douchey
I can't imagine a cover band having a manger 😂
But then again, I've always been into the DIY punk scene. 🤷
Aussies do it better
Combos can look cool. I love how AC15s, AC30s, Jazz Choruses, Fender tweed and blackface combos. Maybe I'm the weird one but for me they're cooler than stacks.
Agreed! I love a good combo amp.
depends on the manufacturers really. the AC30s and fender twin reverbs are still pretty sexy looking combos today. manufacturers need to step up their game in making combos look good.
@@edimabadcats and mesas small combos sound good and all, but the front facing controls just arent practical for a combo, and also none have kick back legs like were found on stuff like twins and AC amps. companies need to see that small combos are the way, but in a way where the musician can use and hear them on stage, and let PA do the rest.
@@flyingrat492 Put the amp on a chair. It raises the amp and gives you a limited ability to tilt it. Still not great, but way better than aiming all of your sound at your legs and feet.
@@mal2kscI’ve got a bunch of tilt stands, I can’t just magic a chair in a small venue and that’s my problem here, both are just another thing to bring along, whereas a pair of kickback legs add practically nothing to the size and weight of an amp and are also more practical
There is only one rule: MARKETING IS KING.
None of this is new. 20 years ago I bought a Boss GT-8, and the forums were full of people discussing how it was better than an amp, more versatile, etc. People were never satisfied, and after complaining how their GT-8 sounded worse when put into the front of, say, a Marshall head...lead to people using FRFR speakers. Even then, they complained about fizziness, the tones, etc. People sold their rigs and went all in on these "modelers", although we just called them multi-effects...although the GT-8 was the first floor multi effect unit with quite good amp "models" and even cabinets. People would try the FRFR route, get frustrated, switch BACK to pedals (this was at the very beginning of the glut of pedals, booteek makers) and arguments flew.
Sound familiar? This was TWENTY YEARS AGO. Think about that. 2024 and what's the difference? Nothing, really. Sure, the tech is better. Are people making better music? No. Are players growing by leaps and bounds? No. Is live music making a huge comeback in local venues? No.
But...are guitar equipment manufacturers making heaps of cash over all this? YES.
Are guitarists still chasing tone dragons and arguing over absolutely every possible angle? YES.
If you want to spend the next twenty years of your guitar life going around in circles, spending money, chasing gear and arguing over what's "better", the only people who benefit is the guitar manufacturing industry.
You will not progress. You will not get better. You will primarily SPEND TIME and MONEY. And at least with the money, you can get some of that back.
I saw all this and fell for it for about one year, when I got my GT-8. I still own it, and for a reason far more important than its functionality (it's still a phenomenal piece of gear) I keep it to remind me that no matter how good all these new things that come out, Kemper, Fractal, etc, nothing is more valuable than TIME.
Don't waste endless years chasing tone dragons. Don't bother yourself with these marketing and industry driven attempts to get your money. Find out what works for you best, buy that and get PLAYING. Write some music, get out there. Don't spiral into a hole of consumerism pretending to be art. This is a business to them.
Buy a Tiny Terror, Kemoer, Fractal or whatever your situation requires and carry on. It's not important that itnis the "best". Just minimize the spending (and wasting) of time and money and focus on becoming a better guitar player. In another twenty years, you'll be far better off for it.
well said. I'm 25. figuring out what i like and i don't like. ive got about 30 pedals, a blues jr, and an orange micro dark with a 1x12.
and a half a dozen guitars.
it's hard not spending more money cause today i think i need a jcm800
Digitech rp500>gt8 😜
My MKIII Mesa was like carrying a small engine block. My back does not miss it.
MK3 was my weapon of choice. My 1x12 was a monster. Yeah it was heavy but it was built like a tank
Yeah why on earth are they so heavy?
Get a Mojotone Lite 4x,12 with Celestion Neodymium Creambacks. 43 pounds.
my brother in christ, i toured with a dual recto for years. i know your pain lmao.
Now that's funny I ordered my Mesa Boogie in the 70's when you could communicate with both Randall and Rayven Smith. Weight wise I understand the Mesa's are hefty.
Remember. Manufacturers don't want the best solution. They want us all going round in circles buying and selling and buying and selling but never finding out what's best for us until we have spent a fortune.
If that’s true then why isn’t there just a manufacturer who sees this and does make the “best solution”. Then they’d be insanely rich right? That’s now how economics works unfortunately, supply is based off on consumer demands, like he stated there are different eras of guitar amps and it all boiled down to the technology available and way was in at the time. It’s as simple as they provide what people want, not the ladder like you’re suggesting.
I feel called out, haha.
@@yemartini5443 it’s not a short game it’s a long one. Giving everything in one is not profitable in the long game 🤫
I used 1 pedal and a bass amp for over 20 years until last year.when hurricane damage paid for a helix floor. There are way too many options. I like it though. I never fretted over tone as I practiced too often to worry. I have a friend with a half million worth of gear and has never used a metronome and sounds worse than some students I've had and he's played as long as me. Priorities kept me from gathering rooms full of gear. Haha
That's fair. Too many people feel the need to buy the next newest thing that comes out. Even in a studio setting I can get away with a Marshall 1959slp and an ac30 99% of the time. No need to buy the newest thing.
In 10 years, I think amplifiers will be the least of our concerns
In ten years we'll all be eating zee bugs, living in a 150 s.f. pod inside a Fifteen Minute open air prison, using our Digital ID to participate in Society, collecting UBI...at least so long as we're up to date on the latest injection that supports the current psy-op, and being so happy that we own nothing.
At least that's the future the psychos in charge want for us.
@reptalien_music There’s always a damned realist in the group …
That's what you said 10 years ago.
That’s what they told us 10 years ago too, so…
Johns950 beat me to it! 😂
Guilty as charged@@doktabob328
I've noticed the same thing as of late. Aside from 'fly gigs' a lot of musicians are wanting 'stage sound' for not only themselves but also for audience in the front rows in smaller venues. Then you have people bringing cabs and poweramps or FRFR's and making their 'travel size' roughly the same as a traditional 'amp / tube amp'. Yes, I think combos, especially tube combos will be another option that will start seeing more popularity soon.
That said, I think we are finding there are a lot of tools for different contexts for guitarists using as much or as little gear as required---and that's great!
PS. I think more and more people are going back to tube amps (lunch box or tube combos) because the 'on stage' sound tends to sound much better and doesn't require as much 'fiddling' as a lot of modelers. Moreover, 'smaller bands' can often get into trouble if they rely too heavily on going direct to a PA without any on-stage sound option because there will be venues with horrible PA's etc.
Small tube combos like defunct Super Champ x2 are more needed.
"I like my Spine, currently..." 😆
yup...
I still prefer my tube amps, a 4 x 12 cab and pedalboard of stomp boxes. I have a Helix and a Headrush pedalboard as well as a bunch of PC plug-ins but they just don't have the same thump and presence of my tube amps. I do love the modeller for recording purposes.
Don't know about the Headrush but the Helix having no thump I agree. That's why I sold mine and got a Boss GT-1000. Fractal Audio works for me as well but Line 6 always sounded to me as if there was some kind of hard-programmed low cut filter.
It's almost all dependent on the speaker. I didn't really like my helix until I got the Fender FR10. That adds so much more to the sound.
Have you tried a Kemper? I have a Headrush Pedalboard and have used the Helix Plugin aswell as other plugins I was told were good. The Kemper just has an incredible feel to it. When I first tried it I was stunned how other products are even in the conversation. I'm in the process of selling my amp, pedals and the Pedalboard
In 30 years, I've only ever used combos. A Crate Vintage Club 30, a Fender Blues Jr, and now an Orange Crush 20. I've never needed more.
Same here, but then I aint a pro. I'm in a bedsit.
Same...
same
I've used Marshall Mode 4, JCM 2000, Laney Ironheart, Peavey 6505 all in half stacks and never gone past 1.5/2 on the volume 😂
I gig a Marshal DSL 40 combo (the older one, not the CR), and it does just fine at clubs, weddings and conventions, and I don't even crank the volume past 3.5/4.
I work in a big music shop in Australia, and the trend I’ve noticed at the moment is definitely towards portability and convenience, so modellers are certainly the popular choice. Most of the responses I get from customers are basically “I just turn up to the gig with a pedal and my guitar, plug into the PA and it’s as simple as that”, I’ve noticed a lot of touring bands switching to modellers as well who previously would have used amps exclusively, but I’d say that’s down to the cost of touring now being astronomical.
I think if they started making amps (including heads) lighter and have built in silent recording and xlr/cab sim outputs that would be the best direction. You could feasibly use it at home without a cab just direct, and then hire or borrow a cab for gigs, which even then wouldn’t be entirely necessary.
Hah, you've found a new use for the term "hiring a cab"
Sometimes I bow down in front of the speakers and I hail the cab.
If a big name amp builder produced a 1x12 in solid state that sounded good, and had effects loop, headphone out, DI out with cab sim, power scaling, and all the other MIDI good stuff, it could win a big market share.
I think the new soldano astro is basically this iirc, just with tubes probably pretty heavy still.
@@colinfreeman-ib1zzI mean these are the Mesa Boogie Mark V combos
The Laney heads (SRT SLS something) seems to keep their value, never seen any in the wild though. Peavey made a nice one years ago (20W IIRC, USB also). Lately Blackstar St. James (also with combo option) and Yoyo / Bantamp. Maybe the nu-tube lines comes through, like a Vox MV50 with decent features.
My Marshall DSL40CR does everything I need. Bedroom practice, band practice, live - I love it.
Plenty loud, and I have mine sitting on a 1x12 extension cab to move more air. Best of both worlds.
It's a great combo. All the overdrive that I need, a really good speaker, and it doesn't take up too much space in my home. For anyone else reading, I would recommend buying used rather than new.
That's what I've used on stage for the last 10 years and will for the next 10
Man that amp it's so fucking cool.....I want another Marshall combo.
Extremely well built too.
One other thing you're not mentioning is running a valve amp into a loadbox or interface with no speaker, just straight into the computer or desk... Rabea Massaad has done virtually all his home recording that way with his valve amps.
This is also every UA-camrs setup.
Well you don't want to sound like UA-camr.
@@bassyey what's wrong with using a real amp and a cab sim/impulse response thing? The recordings sound pretty damn good to me, and I've heard A/Bs of that method versus the same amp with a miced cab and couldn't tell the difference.
I'm pretty sure he's still running a cab sim, it's just on the computer that's doing the recording so he can easily change his mind later. I know I do it this way.
Spot on with what I''m seeing in the guitar world. I went and bought a 100w head and a 2x12 vertical cab recently. Had always wanted one... Played it a couple times and asked myself "what am I really gaining with this thing?" the answer was about 30lbs of unneeded weight. No more volume. No better sound dynamics. I took it back and came home with a solid 1x12 combo. Infinitely more usable and portable.
There's something very satisfying about plugging your guitar into an amp, maybe it's a generational thing...🙏🇬🇧🎸🤘
I’m not a gigging musician, I write and record my own music at home for fun. Up to now I’ve used a Marshall JTM60 and a Vox AC15 combo to record all the bass and guitars with. Recently I’ve got hold of a BOSS IR-2 that I’m really impressed with especially the variety of sounds, and I plan to use to record the bass and all the quieter guitar parts with.
But I very much doubt I will stop using my Combos to play the key lead guitar parts through, as it the time I get to have fun and pretend to be a rockstar. Without an amp cab I won’t get feedback and even hiss that I feel is part of the sound. Plus I don’t think a lot of modern players realise what a combination of a Les Paul and a Marshall sounds like- I don’t want to lose that.
I've got the Boss IR-2. I think it's great. However, I watched the Studio Rats change the IR in it, and the sound improved massively. I tried it myself, and hey presto. Best sound I've ever had in the house. Really good. Can't wait to try it live.
Love my AC15. Quiet enough for late night bedroom work. Loud enough to be heard over drums.
What! Is your bedroom in an underground nuclear bunker?😂
@@sid35gb My AC15 rocks the house lol. Its way overpowered for bedroom work lol
Keep the master at a decent bedroom volume, crank top boost or normal to taste. Sounds great by my ears, also I’m more of indie player than a metal player, and that overdrive sound suits my needs.
I have a Blue's Jr, makes enough noise for anything I'll ever do and with my Shariton plugged into it the blues never sounded so good. Unless somebody else is playing them of course.
I do the same with my AC10. Still has the classic Vox chime via actual tubes and maintains a balance between being loud enough for rehearsal and a small venue but also able to dial in a good sound at modest "home" volumes.
Just last week had my first show using in-ears and No cab on stage (well, I did bring one as backup). Just an amp, cab-sim+loadbox. I always thought that not having a cab would mean that I missed the interaction/feedback between amp and guitar. But in reality, my guitar sound was great (and easy to mix) and I did not mis the cab and stagesound at all during the whole 2 hour show. And the people in the first row where happy to not be pierced by my guitar sound :)
Oh and even better, we are working on some promotion material for the band and I recorded the audio of the whole show. I wasn't that happy with one of the solo's, the timing was of. Yesterday at home. I picked up the same amp, and the same loadbox. Hooked it up to my DAW an re-recorded the solo and the sound was identical to the live recording. I could never achieve that by miking up a cab.
I was there, I wasn't happy.
@.welt.sein. you LIE!! On the INTERNET, no less!!
For shame.
@@matturner6890 There are no lies on the internet.
Been running in ears and a modeler onstage for almost 10 years. It’s the way to go. I thought I’d miss having a cab onstage too. Had to do it for fly dates. But I haven’t looked back. It’s way better. Sound guys love it too.
@@matturner6890Everything you read and see on the interwebs is true.
It’s gonna be a 5 watt world out there.
For his distorted crunch sound for decades a friend has used a miked 50's Fender Champ run wide open.
It’s gonna be a boring world out there.
Hey I love that channel haha
lol, that's all I use baby. I have a Fender 57 champ and it's got it all! ... except it cannot do clean tones in any live situation to save its life.
@@75YBA sorry you can't seem interesting without overcompensating
I think this topic is very genre specific, and could possibly be specific to local music scene as well. The Fender Twin and the Vox AC30 (or clones of them) have been staples in the world of jazz, blues, country, fusion, and more classic rock styles of rock n roll for decades. For a volume sake, a Twin and an AC30 can be every bit as loud as 100 Watt Marshall through a 4x12, its just more direction so they don't spread the sound out as much. (if you've never dimed a Twin, I highly highly recommend it, they are absolute flame throwers when cranked. haha)
In the world of heavier music, I think you're absolutely right through and I think it's due to more and more people getting exposed to recording guitar before performing these days. It used to be that you started a band, practiced with your big amps, and did the gigs with your big amps then you went into the studio to record. Since people like to record with the gear they spent so much money on, they recorded with their big amps, and it sounded good so who cares. But I remember, my entire life, people saying the "secret weapon" in the studio is a small combo amp, and it makes total sense. But we already owned big amps haha. Now the new players are recording and capturing their guitar sound right away, and they are learning that for the most part, an SM57 that's 3 inches from the cone, sounds pretty damn good and doesn't necessarily care about the delivery system. (Yes there are differences in sound between a types of cabs, and what not, but it all sounds good and it all create a good sound for an album) So the newer players aren't as inclined to think a huge stack is necessary.
Are they really loud the same just more directional? Sounds counter-physics to me, why more directional. Also, running a 10 W amp through the same set of speakers as a 100 W amp will be quieter. But contrary to popular belief, the 100 W amp is not ten times louder than the 10 W one but only twice as loud (loudness and its perception considering wattage is logarithmic, not linear).
That said, I am not saying that a Twin run hard through a different than its stock speakers can sound fire!!!! Speakers are the biggest tonewood in electric guitar anyway :)
I started with shitty Amos and found my way to a 100 Watt stack. Then I got ahold of a Fender bronco. It was like 7.5 watts and a 6 inch speaker. Sound guys fell in love with me. Worked great in the studio too. I’m 100% modeler these days. But I did love amps. Still do. But portability reigns supreme. Line 6 helix has about 10,000 pounds worth of gear packed into about a 10 pound box.
My Fender Super Reverb was heavy but I always carried it by myself, usually lifted up in both arms to cover distance, then by the handle to get it placed.
I’m speaking from the bass world and what you are talking about is starting to hit our market.
We have been playing through digital amplification for a while now. All bass amp companies are doing it. It’s the standard now.
For ages we have had to carry a bigger load because of our 300 watt tube heads and refrigerator 8x10 cabinets.
Now I can get away with a 2x10 combo at the same wattage. Add a small cabinet with the combo and now I’m pushing 500 watts.
My combo weighs only 2 and a half stone and the ext. cab is only 2 stone.
Most gigs I don’t even need the extra cab.
Speaker technology is now going smaller as well. Phil Jones is doing great things with bass cabinets that only have 2x7 speakers at 300 watts.
I've been taking a portable 3u rackmount case round with a tuner, Sansamp and compressor for bout 12 years now, all I need.
It's possible to get deep response with small speakers, but good god are they inefficient. You're easily losing 10 dB across the spectrum to keep the bass from rolling off. That means pumping in a whole lot more power. The trick is finding where the weight saved on speakers and the weight gained from more amplification cross over each other.
@@mal2ksc That’s an interesting point. I have played through Phil Jones stuff before but never owned. So my experience with what you speak of never occurred to me. I know there is some companies in the biz are going to FFR speakers. It’d be curious if they are the same way or the next new thing in speakers for bass and guitar.
I've just switched to frfr and a modeler and honestly it's amazing. Good quality, paid for impulse responses can give you any tone and sound that would usually cost thousands of pounds. Also, the weight reduction is massive. Amps are difficult to predict tonally in different environments and don't travel well. I can see why the new tech is killing off the old. It's a spiral though because without those old combos, we wouldn't have the range of tones for the new stuff to emulate. This is pretty much the Spotify effect for the guitar industry.
I'm keeping my mind open on amps. I learned long ago (back int he 80s) to be agnostic on amps. Don't get hung up on tubes, solid state, form factor, etc. If it works it works. I had a Marshall stack but realized I preferred combos for gigging. I loved rocking it out with anything from a Gallien Krueger, Randall, Crate or Peavey solid state, or a Laney or Marshall or Fender combo. I eventually got a Boogie 50 Cal combo and that became my main gigging and rehearsal amp for a decade. I loved it. But I'll try anything. I think modelers are awesome and had a Boss GT modeler a couple years ago. I'm also a fan of the Boss Katana. I'm always eager to see what new amp wonders are coming down the pike.
My 2 rigs are both 50 watt heads and 1x12 cabinets. Different rigs for different gigs. One is a blackstar club 50 head thru an eminence man o war, and the other rig is an EVH 5150 III 50 watt thru an eminence private jack. Fits in the trunk of my little ford focus hatchback. Both rigs get PLENTY loud for any gig. I use the XLR out on the blackstar and a lil sonicake ir loader for the evh (from the preamp out). I am able to turn both rigs master volumes up loud enough to sound good, but quiet enough to not interfere with the PA. I also place them to the right side of the stage facing towards the left, to help further reduce interference with the PA.
Something people never mention is the efficiency of certain speakers. I’ll always choose a lower efficiency speaker like a greenback type speaker which can have a 97bd efficiency as opposed to vintage 30s and other speakers which have 100+db. The lower efficiency speakers allow you to get the amp further into working territory at the same volume and also be lighter at the same time.
Greenbacks sound great with most amps.
On the bass guitar side of things, I love high sensitivity speakers. Allows me to run a lower power head and a single cab.
I think FLAT amp combos will be the new rage, personally. Good video, btw, KDHaych! Thoughtful, cogent, and well researched as always.
I just stumbled into a Peavy Delta Blues 115 and was blown away. I thought they only did metal machines but this things cleans are sublime! The dirt channel does get filthy but for a fuzzer like myself the clean channel is perfect for effects and they sound fantastic! Plenty of output, great reverb and solid trem it's a perfect lil 30 watter
I have one of those amps. They sound huge. I love the on board tremolo and spring reverb. It's a great amp. Hidden gem.
Last time I played with dinosaur equipment for a gig (we covered the entire Never Mind the Bollocks album, at a smaller Detroit area club - the Token Lounge for those curious), I was using a Marshall JCM 800, into a 2x12 cab along with my pedalboard. Even though we were super loud (our drummer only has one volume level too...!!!), I barely had the amp above 3 on the master volume. I can't imagine playing anywhere that I'd ever need more volume, which illustrates how obsolete such legendary equipment is these days. Now, all our mega amps and cabs now sit like museum pieces in our band's rehearsal area as reminders of glory days gone......never to return, IMO.
I've been using a Kemper toaster in my studio for years. Amazing piece of kit and a joy to play through. Recording both the DI and processed signals through SPDIF into the DAW, and the DI is there for re-amping, or for use with a VST plugin.
Just recently, I decided to grab a Kemper Player and a FRFR amp as I plan to jam with friends more often and see what happens. The Kemper player is just great, whether through the FRFR or a decent set of headphones. Being able to use it as an audio interface and track with it (even though the 44.1Khz sample rate limit is a bit annoying) is also pretty amazing. The portability plus the sound quality is hard to beat. It's the best of all worlds for me.
I am not sure if there is really a need for it, but I could see companies combining modellers/profilers into a powered cab at some point, as that is a gap in the market.
Great video, as usual, man! I saw Black Label Society live back in 2009 or so. They had had a total of 8 Marshall heads powering 12 4x12 cabinets, a unique arrangement of two full stacks on either side and then a row of half stacks in front of the drum riser. You could actually tell the PA in this smaller club was mostly just blasting the vocals and drums. It was.... incredibly rock'n'roll.
And 2/3 of the heads were off
@@Pikilloification You mean they were idling on standby in case one has a problem.
@@Pikilloification I yield to your supreme and infallible knowledge of all things live music circa 2009. You were there. You know all... And all hail, God-king PiKilloification!! (All hail...)
I really doubt they were all even real stacks. Dummy stacks were absolutely commonplace by 09
@@gonzoengineering4894 tell me you don't know Black Label Society without telling me
J Mascis still uses two Marshall full stacks for Dinosaur Jr. gigs. Louder than hell! Glad I wore earplugs.
I saw them and it was just stupid. Couldn't hear a damn thing they were doing even with earplugs. Definitely an album band for me. Glad I saw them, but wish I could've heard it, too it was so loud it just became like TV-static.
What really shocks me is the Twin J. keeps pointed right at his head along with all the other amps on stage. How can he hear anything?!
Only two stacks? Thats down from the usual three! Dino Jr was Easily the loudest show ever for me and it was loud even with earplugs in. That being said, it was a fantastic show.
J is probably deaf. Decades of loud. Decades. That's one question I'd like somebody to ask him if he's ever interviewed again. J, how's your hearing holding up
@@motoki1 How could you possibly tell? They're so loud you can't hear the actual song when they turn on distortion.
Totally agree, I use a 20 Watt Blackstar valve combo through a PA and it's great. Always thought modelling amps were too complicated
Glad I‘ve bought a 1x12 tube combo! Can use it at home for practice and also rehearsal & small gigs. 😎
Life begins at 100 Watts. Generator parties need stacks for a reason. Little toys have no place in heavy music. For those who have played at 120dB there is no comparison.
🍆
Lower watts means the amp hits the ideal tone at a lower volume, which is ideal for recording with a mic.
Exactly. Just like the guy said. You don't want to sound like a chainsaw
The whole 100W doesn't have to come from where your amp though! I think that's the point that's being missed. You dial in the sound you want, but it's no longer physically tied to one particular volume level. Also this works a lot better for the audience at a distance, who get sound reinforcement from distributed speakers with hand-tuned delays.
Don't be afraid of low wattage, just find your sound. When the volume is still required, transistor amps are perfectly capable of providing it. You'll get a lot more volume out of 100 transistor watts than 100 tube watts also, which I'd think is important for generator parties.
great vid.. good points and hit the nail on the head. Having said that, im old school 80s metal player and i use 2 100w marshall tube heads into 2 marshall 4x12 cabs.. i love the delay stereo fullness and warm tube driven sound(w distortion).
It will be modeler+flat PA for gigging with consistent tone, and vintage style combos/racks for home or studio inspiration.
It already is like that for many bands ranging from local club dwellers to Metallica..
What is that emerald green quilted maple guitar there behind your left?
(I really love emerald green quilted maple guitars.)
Ormsby SX, he has a video about it
@@marcussoininen2084 thank you!!
@jamesogara7053 Unfortunately dude is wrong.
It is a Vola - Japanese imports. Very good quality to price ratiom
What an interestingly timed video. I love my modeling pedal (Boss IR 200). I'm going to be gigging with a band this summer and I need a speaker or a small cabinet or something to hear myself with. I slightly regret not buying another boss katana lol. Combo amps are amazing.
Can't decide between a personal PA speaker or a small 212 cabinet.
A very well thought out and clearly expressed view of the possible future direction of guitar amps. I'm only an old "bedroom" guitarist, but everything you say makes sense. I really enjoy the videos you create, keep up the good work. Thank you.
I feel like I’ve gone through all of this the last 10 years. I’ve come back around and am using a traditional pedal board with an amp modeler (NUX Amp Academy). I went a while only using in ears being happy not lugging an amp but missed the feedback and feel of an amp on stage. I then started using an Ev powered speaker and now am using an Orange pedal baby powering an Orange open back 212. This gives me everything I want. Perfect Ir Bogner 412 sound to FOH and my in ears every show, and some real cab feel (at a reasonable volume) on stage.
Glad to hear your thoughts on modelers. I went to Fender tube combos years ago and nust recently got a lunchbox Marshall origin and a 112 cab. All work well. I finally sold my DeVille 212 when I got the Marshall.
Excellent dive into the subject man.
I recently built a killer ‘MegaMicroCube’. It’s a Celestion 6” (TF-0615) which can handle 150W continuous, mounted in a solid box about 23x23x20 cm. There is a rechargeable lithium battery inside, powering a car audio amp - around 60W into 8 ohms, class A/B, which is mounted on a large heatsink. That is mounted on the side of the box. It’s a very hifi, very loud, very compact box. I use a Boss IR-200, and the whole thing *rocks*. It’s easy to carry with one hand, it sounds like a big guitar amp., and I can have any tone I want.
If I want 120W, another box with a 6” Celestion wired in parallel is all I need to do.
It’s so simple to do, very affordable, and sounds HUGE and rock solid.
Done.
✌ 👽 🎸
Great Video Thanks!
I'd been looking to go smaller for years. Had a Legacy III when they first came out, a 5150 III as well, but when I saw the Victory V4 Kraken pedalboard amp, I was hooked. Now I make one trip from my car for gigs. My 2x12 cab, my pedalboard bag with cables, and my guitar on my back. Simple set up, light weight, and sounds killer.
I agree. I've found that a 30-ish watt 1x12 combo to be right around the sweet spot for size vs sound.
I thoroughly enjoyed this video. Thank You.
I’ve mostly looked at combos exclusively for my bedroom and largely potential live experience needs as a way of keeping the cost down, and also only looked at solid states for the same reason. I was gonna do whatever I wanted anyway, but I’d love to be a trendsetter.
i have a mix of celestion and jensen neodymium speakers in my old marshall 1960 and love em. There is also new speakers with regular magnets but halfed weight like the Blackstar St. James 2x12 cabs (with celestion zephyrs), but i have not heard them yet in comparison to other speakers / cabs.
I split my signal before the IR Block in my helix, and I have a hotone loudster and 30ft speaker cable in my gig bag. if theres is a cab in the venue I can use then ill run it for stage volume and run the IR to the FOH. benefit is i can turn up my volume on stage for monitoring without it messing with the sound engineers gain staging at the desk.
I'm going just a pedalboard - Line 6 HX Effects > Chase Bliss Preamp > Victory V4 The Copper on a Metromax pedalbooard, does everything & the two notes output right into the PA using IEM. Chase Bliss is in the effects loop so the dirt can be put in whatever order in the chain. super portable.
The FRFR speakers from GR Guitar use Neodymium magnets. They are insanely light weight and they sound AWESOME! (Tough to find in the USA though. Only a few dealers.)
i love amps AND modelers i own both and both serve a purpose. Even amp sims these days are insane!
The 1x12 combo NEVER went away! Look at the enduring popularity of the Deluxe Reverb! :)
Was the Orange the first? Before HK Tubemeister or Mesa TA15?
Agree 100%. For pub gigs, I'm doing a modeler into an FRFR nowadays. In my old original band, we would play some of the bigger clubs in Chicago and I've gone down to a 1x12 for stage volume and my Revv G20, with the Torpedo XLR out going to FOH and our IEMs. I don't even need the cab if I really wanted to travel light. 4x12's are now more for recording purposes and even that is few and far between thanks to IRs and loadboxes.
good points! I'm a bit surprised you didn't touch on the availability of the 'old' technology. I think you are right about the combo's, my main amp is a Hook combo and I do have a few stacks (Marshall, BadCat, Koch, Blackstar). But I think it will be solid state combo's, like the Fender Tonemaster series, since tubes are getting very hard to source. That's my 2 cts. Cheers!
Fender had been making 'stacks' before Marshall. The reason was for sealed back cabinets, a new trend in audio projection (for larger venues). The sealed cabinet was its own larger audio unit and the amp sat atop that because tubes need to have ventilation so they need open back. Marshall did make it their own once they arrived.
I’ve thought about this topic for quite a while now, and if we do indeed see a return of combo amps, I just find it so funny that we’ve pretty much come full circle back to the days of the line 6 spider. In essence, a digital modeler with a fairly flat response speaker. Now that technology has improved in the digital modeler world, I’m definitely not opposed, I just think the frfr speaker/cab side of the equation needs to catch up to the advancements that have been made to the modeler side of things. There just doesn’t seem to enough traction on the frfr front or the “go-to” frfr that people talk about, like there is for the modelers. I know there’s been several attempts the last few years, but everything that’s been released just seems to fizzle out after the marketing hype is over and actual consumers get their hands on the product. i.e, fender frfr, L6 powercab, kemper kab, etc… I’m sure they’re decent, but nobody’s really talking about them like they do about their modelers. Once there’s shit talk and “frfr wars” on forums at the consistency of the modeler wars, then we’ll know we’re at that point.
i was gigging for a few years before covid with MATRIX AMPLIFICATION NL212 COMPACT 2X12 GUITAR CAB super light big on sound with Neodymium magnet speakers and a blueguitar amp1, i never needed anything else and so much easier to carry around and way more power than i needed.
I talked to a guy who works for all the major festivals around here not too long ago. He does sound and lights. He told me that 10 years ago, the norm for the bands coming to play were full stacks, 8 guitars for a show, boutique pedals built by some guy in his apartment, Ampeg SVT’s. Bands would be in a huge camper or bus with a 6x10” trailer full of gear.
Now the same bands travel around in a van, one single 1x12” combo, Boss pedals, Line6 HD Stomp in the PA, two guitars max, bass in the PA, and no trailer full of gear.
And the bands charge more money. 😂😂
"Now the same bands travel around in a van, one single 1x12” combo, Boss pedals, Line6 HD Stomp in the PA, two guitars max, bass in the PA, and no trailer full of gear.
And the bands charge more money. 😂😂"
The gear has always been for the players, not for the audience. ;)
Thank you for relaying your experience- it is interesting to hear!
I love the Catalyst combos!
When I got into stand-up, I bought a pair of big, heavy 600 watt active speakers which looked great but were heavy. I later bought a 100 watt sound bar employing an array of smaller speakers. It blew out a hall and was no heavier than an electric guitar. I later brought a 50-watt amp about the size of a lunchbox. It also blew out a hall that sat 450 people.
This worked because voice requireme ts are minimal. You don't need a lot of bass. Electric guitars don't, either. Bass guitars are the Ines that need the equivalent of a subwoofer. A single 10 to 12 inch box would serve, so long as you had an amp capable of running juice through it.
You don't need any of this if you pipe through the P.A. system. But it's cool to have boxes on stage. There's also excitement when you have a source for all that sound, something that will shake your shirt like a subway passing in front of you. In many venues, a band in a van will be able to use something minimal in size to get decent sound. But if you have a little extra space, stacks look cool.
About FRFR - I think it's niche product and isn't necessary to use with modelers
When playing at home - you can use studio monitors/hifi system/good quality computer speakers/headphones
When playing at campfire - you can use your bluetooth speaker
When playing gig - you plug in straight into PI
Correct me if I'm wrong
I use FRFR for small gigs with my 4 piece band. We basically use it to amplify our already dialed in tones from our individual electric/acoustic guitar amps. We don't use modelers, but they could work for it as well. FRFR are nice because they require you to get the "sound" you want before it gets to the PA and then it does not alter or color it in any way (in theory), so you know what you are going to get and you know that the sound coming at you from your amp (used as a stage monitor) is the exact same sound going out to the audience. I have a 57 champ that I mic with a SM57 and then a Loudbox Mini for acoustic which I DI out to the FRFR. I know the sound for each guitar I want is already dialed on my presets, so I don't have to mess with the PA system very much. I don't know if that's how FRFR are supposed to be used, but that's how I have been using it haha
Acoustics exist. If you absolutely cannot go camping without a guitar, then take one of those.
I plug an ISP Theta DSP into 2 powered PA speakers, the kind that can be "mains" on tripods, and also floor wedges. I already have two pair of these speakers, so I put them to use in a new application. They are relatively light weight as well.
You didn't mention the scenario of jamming with friends, loud acoustic drums and no PA. You do still need loud power. Also you might want some additional air moving on stage at a gig for good old-school feedback. Remember when Brian May, Mick Ronson, Nugent, Randy Rhoads were controlling raging beast guitar rigs? If you want to play like that some stage volume is required.
@@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t Electrics exist. More robust for camping. Most folk take a music player anyway. You can adjust the volume - all the way to zero using headphones. I’ll do it my way thanks buddy.
I'm in a band that uses modelers and FRFR speakers for our stage volume, and that's just it, sometimes you play a show where you NEED stage volume. I love the ease of use of our modelers, and the things I can do using them/FRFR speakers that we just couldn't do with traditional guitar amps/cabs, but there's certain places where the sound guy may just not run guitars through the PA (I was amazed when it happened to us that we were told he wasn't going to mic up amps or run guitars through the PA. Luckily we had the FRFR speakers) or other situations where I just don't want to put that much trust in the sound guy (played a show once where EVERY band on the bill except one ran guitars direct, and you just couldn't hear the guitars for any band except the one who had amps. Since then, we always bring the FRFR speakers in case we need stage volume)
I went from 2, 4 x 12s and two heads in the 70s, to a single Vox MV 50, that looks like a clothes iron, and two tiny Vox 8 inch speakers. 50 watts and sounds amazing. Stacked on top of each other, I have to bend down to adjust it. The only thing that’s the same these days is that I still have to wear earplugs.
A few points here. You want the necessary decibal that correctly fills the room. If you're in a small room , then get a low wattage amp that can be turned up to at least 80% for a full sound, especially a tube amp.
On another page, the discussion turned to EVH about his 'brown sound'. Well the story was: he bought a Marshall and like the sound only when he turned it all the way up. But the problem was 'it was so damn loud'. He bought another Marshall that sounded really good, but it was too quiet. He discovered that it was a European amp and was under voltage due to different power requirements. Then it hit him. Lower the voltage, lower the decibal, while keeping the sound that he liked. He acquired the Variac to do just that. Only that it did change the tone a bit. It also introduced a bit of delay. It was hard on the amp though because it introduced the power issue of a 'brown out'. The opposite destructive issue like the 'spike'. So he had to replace tubes often.
So you see! You want to be able to turn your amps up for the best sound but low enough wattage that correctly fills the room. Need to be able to turn up the volume and open it up. Size your amps to the room in which you're playing in. . A PA system, if available, can certainly change strategy and the need for high wattage amps.
i enjoy it all, its a great time to be alive and a guitarist. Love my 100w amps and my 5w mini heads, my plugins, and modelers. they all have a place
Hello K. I hope you're doing great since meeting you at NAMM. And Shout out to Glenn as well. I want to confirm with your prediction a bit with my own observation. I believe that combos started making a comeback in early 2000. I remember when Guitar Magazine did a review on a particular combo. (forgive me if I can't remember the name of the combo). That article made me partly retire my 5150 and use my Silver Stripe Peavey Bandit and purchased the matching 112 sx to go with it. AS of recently, I purchased a Valeton GP-200 and my back thanked me for it. It's versatility is amazing and capabilities and endless. In so many words, I concur.
I use the Victory V4 amps and a vertical 2x12. It's small footprint, and if I want I can turn up with just my pedalboard and guitar to either use backline or go straight through the PA.
I get real feel from the on stage cab, don't get option paralysis or EQ nightmares from digital modelling/FRFR and I get the versatility of choosing my format.
I prefer this format to the drama format. This is a well-informed video and I appreciate it.
I had a Hughes&Kettner 30W-Transistor-Combo and then a Marshall 50W-Hybrid-Combo (to be loud enough for my band) that I still use today.
Small combos are really nice for studio work. I like your analysis. I would love to see more rackgear again. I have bought me an Engl 530. Love it to bits. I am considering the Synergy system, JMP and other rack units available.
I'm running a bit of a combo set up right now. I've got my Amp1 Iridium out to a TwoNotes Opus to the PA, but also another out to a 2x12 at the back of the stage for stage sound. I know it's dumb because a direct out should be fine for coming out of the monitors but a real speaker cab just hits different on stage.
For a time I did use a little Laney LC-15 combo with a pedalboard and both the sound man AND my back loved me.
Completely agree. When I first started guitar, the only thing that made sense were combos. Seems crazy to use anything else.
When I first started, the combo made sense also. Axe Fx Ultra and everything that followed offered something different, and I mean different in multiple ways. In digital chains, you can do things that would be hard to do with analog and you can throw in analog gear to your chain to boot. I would say the in-the-room feel is overall better with analog, but for me the difference is so negligible that I'm happy with an Axe 3 and Atomic CLR at band practice/rehearsal. After all, one of the biggest drawbacks of digital is it has too many EQ options, let alone everything else, just rock what works.
I believe the future is quality tube power amps. I’ve got a really nice 112 Engl cab that is a lifer as far as I’m concerned, but I’ll always try new things with heads.
Currently running a Friedman Runt 20 with a UAFX Lion and Stomp in 4cable which gives me a vast array of cleans to go with the Runt’s overdrive. If I didn’t have the Runt I’d get a Fryette 50 power amp and a Friedman IR-X
My favourite line, "but one thing's for certain and that's a virtual 4x12 is significantly lighter than a real one".
I've been looking to lighten the load for years. I have tried the modelling route, hybrid, solid state, FRFR, etc. I just never could fully bond with the digital stuff. It's missing some life and immediacy.
I have an all analog signal path now. I am currently playing an AMT Electronics SH-100-4R which I love. It has a direct out and can be run without a cab. I have a traditional pedalboard with a Carl Martin "the Strip" switcher.
Those things are reasonably light but that still leaves the cabinet.
I use a clone of the MojoTone Slammins 2x12 loaded with G12K-85 Celestions. That is still pretty heavy and awkward. I am considering neo speakers but haven't tried any yet. I think I might try the Celestion neo V-Type.
I don't think I can ever go full digital, for the reasons mentioned above. I love the tone of my all analog signal path. It really inspires me.
Thanks for the video!
I had that problem with digital for years. But I was doing fly dates and didn’t really have a better option. Forced me to keep working with it. But when the Helix came out, I changed my tune. Now, I actually prefer having it onstage. My problem was holding a note and not getting any feedback or play from the cab. But either I just got used to it, or they fixed it. Because I have zero complaints about the digital realm these days.
@@vincentpeer5188Absolutely, there are applications where it is pretty much necessary.
I keep eyeing the Fractal AX8. You can get them pretty cheap these days.
You'll pry my 4x12 and loud wattage tube amps from my cold dead hands. Been through the amp sim, digital modelers and analog amps. Nothing comes close to the sound, feel, and stomach punch of a true 4x12 and tube amp combo. The world can tick on with pa's and IR and axeFX. I will be in my corner half deaf with my marshalls cranked and neighboors calling the cops. Metal til' death \m/
get a look at this edgelord over here.
@@teddy3k3 yup.
I agree, it will be combos with not too much power. In fact, I worked 10 years on that concept and designed and built my own 20W amp with an integrated microphone and a slightly tilted speaker. So I can hear myself very well on small stages while there's also a real mic signal available to send to a PA. It sounds REALLY good! Way better than any amp I owned before.
As someone who gigs multiple days a week every week, I for one agree with you! I have a VHT classic 6 that I use and has been the perfect gigging solution. I run my pedalboard through the front of the amp, use the 12" speaker for onstage monitoring, take the line out of the back and put that through an IR loader and out to the PA. I've never been happier with our stage volume/house mix
I like what BluGuitar is doing with their analog pedal/pedalboard sized amps, made possible by using nano tubes instead of regular sized ones. I’m 99% sure they can be used both with a traditional speaker setup and send the signal directly to the front of house, without the need for a load box. The Amp X will include both analog and digital effect solutions aswell, and it looks very exciting.
I’ve played since the early seventies and always had a combo.
Back then it was an HH IC100 2x12 combo and after that a couple of other HH 1x12 combo’s till I came across the Sessionette 75 1X12 by Award Session, a 75 watt 3 channel combo that did everything I wanted!
I still have an old one that needs a service badly and mostly use a Blackstar ID60 TVP these days!
I’ve tended to use solid state rigs because they were lighter, but also because I never seemed to be able to get the tone’s I wanted at the volumes I needed from the valve/tube amps I tried!
For one of the metal bands I play in I run a Quilter 200 watt Pro-Block set to run clean with a few pedals in front then into a 2x12. Honestly it works great for me and I don't see the need to change up that setup anytime soon as it sounds great, can get loud or quiet, and isn't too difficult to lug around all things considered.
When I was a young guy in my first regularly working band, the two guitarists both had Marshall stacks with the heads at 100W. This period in my city was the tag end of big live venues and more small rooms being the gigging space. Some of them really small. Both guitarists eventually got their Marshall heads rewired down to 50W.
Jumping forward several decades and as well as venues being small, it's all small combos and/or Modelers and speaker boxes.
I was in a band for a little while where the lead guitarist had a modelling rack and a speaker box. Can't remember the exact set up, but it was really cool. It never sounded quite right to me, and I did suggest maybe running it through a tube pre-amp of some kind. I don't know if that is possible/the done thing or not. The guitarist looked at me blankly and said, but the sounds are all modeled.
I dunno, his call after all. I left it at that. But they don't sound quite right to me, maybe I'm just too old scholl, and or a bit deaf.
I agree with that prediction. Since the 90s, I insisted on my 2×12 combo and the bass rig to be faced in towards the band as monitors. The pa took care of the front of the house. Sound guys loved us for that. Other good bands hated their sound, playing after us. The combo amp rules.
I have sold my soul to modeling. I am fully invested in the Fender TMP with its FR-12 speaker. A company finally put out a great modeler that has a super simple user interface. I love the Fractal FM-9 and it is great for those that need or just want to really take a deep dive and have all those tweaks but it has a learning curve that is kinda steep. The Fender TMP fits in my wheelhouse. Great tones and stupid simple.
For some reason I have gotten a sound that I really like out of my Focusrite scarlett through my PC. I found this of course while taking zoom lessons during the pandemic. I might try focusrite into an actrive poweramp...
I have a pedalboard that uses analog effects but uses a little HxStomp as the amp and cab sim. The signal is then split, one going to the front of house and one going to an Orange 1x12 cab loaded with an FRFR speaker powered by a tiny little Seymour Duncan powerstage. The reason? When using just a modeler, the audience in the first few rows only hear drums and vocals due to lack of amps on stage. Also having a speaker near you, vibrating the stage and it helps with the "feel" of playing live. The cab is not mic'd and not cranked up loud enough to mess with the house mix so that ensures the house is always consistent and myself as well as the crowd can hear the guitars/bass. All of this gear can fit in the backseat of my car no problem.
KDH i dont know much about trending amps but you said makes perfect sense to me.
I've thought about trying to build foam and composite cabinets for my rig because I'm just tired of heavy amps. I've even considered building a 2x10 pedal board amp combo where the lid is basically a baffle board with two speakers and a simple tone stack, class d amp. I could even go stereo that way.
i just picked up a used tiny terror and it is WONDEROUS!
Well, my rig changed exactly into that. I have a modded blues jr and a marshall dsl20cr. I take one of them to the gigs, with my pedalboard and guitar and go. 3 volumes. Not a lot of trouble carrying it to gigs when i don't have a roadie available.
i agree. combos are a really convenient and viable one-stop-shop for jams and gigs. I have an orange 35ldx that i can just plug into and jam. Ive also been using little diy cabinets with heads like the micro-terror and bugera t5. the versatility has been really handy
I'd probably agree. I went the modeler route for a good long while, but this was the early days of modelers being good enough for live use, and next to no sound guys seemed to understand that I needed all my sound to come through the foldback. To get around this, I started bringing along a powered PA speaker... After a few months of doing that, I realised how ridiculous and how much more complicated than it needed to be it all was, and switched to a 1x12 combo...
That said, these days I'm almost exclusively using IEMs, so having stage sound is no longer something I actually need, and I've just recently acquired a Boss IR-2 so that all I need to bring to a gig is my guitar and pedalboard. We'll see how long it lasts before I'm back to a combo again...
Yep , that checks out !
For me I'm going the "Sans Amp FlyRig5 with a 3 huge cardboard boxes dressed up like a stack" route ( until I can buy a combo amp )
I think you are spot on. I love my lunchbox amps. Plugging into a cab sim to the front of the house is a great option. I think you're going to find guitarists are going to opt for a lunchbox amp and some sort of digital cab sim. Like my Hughes and Ketner TubeMeister Delux is a great amp with a Red Box. Awesome. that I don't have to lug around a huge cab.
For touring (metal) it's mostly modelers, combined with full stacks. You can feed the pre-IR signal to the amp return, and mic up the cab, as usual. then feed the post-IR signal from the modeler directly to the board, and blend the two sounds. perfect!
Modelers are also cost-effective, and bring more flexibility: a pedalboard fits in on-board luggage. @festivals, there'll be full stacks backline. Lastly, if an amp dies, there's still the DI signal to feed the FOH and monitor mix.
Having said that: the other trend is a no amps stage: the modelers feed into a monitor mixer for IEM transmitters, with the split inputs being sent to the monitor mixer and FOH. With a 2 guitar and 1 bass player band, that means 3 pedalboards, one 19" rack for on-stage mix, and a drum kit. See for example Queensryche live, the past few club tours.
I started out in 96 with a Zoom 505 and I could split the output for “stereo” which never worked, but did use that to run two Peavey Rage 158s clean at 7. Two 15 watt 8” amps was plenty good to play with a drummer or if we had PA, I sent one side to the board and used a Rage as a monitor. Now I use a modeler/MFX pedal and a powered PA cab or two. You have to learn how to get the most out of your tools. Even my dad who is an old-school Jazz guy runs a Roland Cube 65 with a 12” Extension cab when needed and a line to the board. And that’s just the COSM tech DSP as in the BOSS ME series…