Andertons Big Secret
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2024
- Not quite an Audio Audit, But close. Todays video started out with the question, "Who owns Victory amps?" But the more I uncovered the more it became a video about Andertons and Lee Anderton. Disclosure of ownership of brands is required by law. There shouldn't be a need to do a full scale investigation.
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Timestamps
0:00 Intro
1:12 Victory
2:02 Lee Anderton
4:10 Martin Kidd Interview
6:00 Straight Edge
6:50 Trademarks
7:58 Coincidences
11:36 Lees Response
13:12 The Issue ?
15:26 The Guys At Victory
17:00 A bad thing?
21:50 Lees Response 2
25:56 Conclusion
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Sources
Martin Kidd Interview @tone-talk
ua-cam.com/users/livewVWbZCIJ...
Lee Interview @tone-talk
ua-cam.com/users/liveL7aYqpWM...
www.gov.uk/government/publica...
Lee Responded ua-cam.com/video/_lRPbEHZ9DE/v-deo.html
Have you actually send an email to the Victory Amps asking them to disclose the PSCs?
Not really a secret - change your title it’s very much bait and manufactured drama. It’s totally ok to not declare everything in business - it can give you competitive advantage and i think the UK guitar industry needs all the support it can get… you go Lee and company!!!
@KDH everybody already knows Lee responded, and you know what You're an idiot 😂
@@nornicle2fully agree, he's so up his own ass about this he's created something no one else agrees with.
@@nornicle2 "It’s totally ok to not declare everything in business". No! I'm glad you're a fan and I wish you well but you don't get to redefine the Advertising Standards or ethics, generally.
It's pretty wild seeing Lee, an owner of the company, sit by quietly as Mick talks about his potential bias.
Yeah and they are featured heavily on their Channel. I mean I love them I have 4! And two preamps. But Lee should have come clean a long time ago.
Who gives a f**k?
I did not know guitar-based investigative journalism was a thing, but I'm here for it.
Neither did lee... apparently
Im looooving it ahhah@@rainblaze.
I’ve always thought of Victory being synonymous with Anderton’s, this video just confirms it. Either way, they’re killer amps and I do like Lee (his public persona at least).
think this blokes a whinger
Hes a bit of an oblivious bellend but i do feel hes a good person. Being forced to grow up fast and take over a family company can do that sometimes.
@@Thatdudeoverthere69420I’m sure we’ve all met a ceo much worse than Mr Lee. He’s a great guy who’s managed to accomplish the impossible task of taking over the family business and bringing it into the modern age
@@Thatdudeoverthere69420 *cough cough* Jeff Kiesel
I don't see that much drama here. If I was an investor at a company but had no formal role, I think I'd refer to the people who work at the company as 'the guys at [blah]'. If I owned Apple stock, I wouldn't consider myself part of the company. Being a director, on the other hand, means active involvement and a sense of 'us'. Lee might have been a little too quiet in videos I guess, but given he was honest when asked, I don't feel like he's trying to deceive. Maybe I'm biased, I've never met the fella but I've enjoyed his videos for ages. Kudos to you though KDH, I think this kind of revelation can only have positive effects for transparency.
I can always trust KDH to give me drama on amps I can't dream to afford
That's why I buy used 😂 got a duchess v4 for $600 on reverb
That was my thought. There are certainly amps like that: Soldano, etc but Victory isn't one of them.
That’s because he’s a little slut for the drama
@@michaelgriffin5304 I feel like in the end
All restaurants will be Taco Bell
All guitars will be Ibanez
All amps will be Synergy
Victory amps are moderately priced new. Used you can find some great deals. I was on the fence between Victory and Friedman. In the end the Friedman did more for me and was the Keeper.
Funnily enough I always thought that Victory was an in-house brand from Andertons, I think I got that idea because of body language and tone when they talked about it, it was like "well, this feels more like an add than usual"
Same here. I always kind of had the feeling, given the tone Lee, Rabea, Rob, and Pete would always take with the amps, and the fact that they were the signature artist for the amps, that Victory was an Andertons house brand. I don't like that Lee wont disclose fully his role in the company, and would play a semantics game to seemingly avoid it, but I do understand Lee not seeing himself as a large enough part of the company to note if he is in fact greatly divorced from the operations of the brand.
Yeah well said, and I agree it crossed my mind too, the way they always bigged it up!
Yep. A rabbit hole not worth jumping into. The time to scour the web for info on the subject would probably be better spent on enriching one's personal life, and the family and friends around them. In the grand scheme of life, it's absolutely meaningless. I wish KDH had music to share. I like music😁
@@patrickkish6662well good news we have someone covering it so we don’t have to do any of the leg work 😂 and I personally do find it interesting and entertaining to watch this stuff. Reminds me they are all trying to make a buck off of us 🤷🏽♂️
@@patrickkish6662 Hi Lee !
I've always thought Lee or Rob had their hand in Victory amps in some way after watching a lot of their videos. I was curious about them when I last needed a new amp but went with something else.
Well done. The Martin Kidd interview at the 4:22 mark actually tells a whole bunch when the real story is known. Martin cleverly pivots when he seems to realize that he might accidentally reveal the well-kept ownership secret.
Except that wouldn’t look good if every other video of his was about Victory Amps.
Man... damn. You know its gonna be a rough day when KDH is sitting in your office with a question he probably already has the answer to. LMAO
Seriously, if this dude asked me what I did last week he could probably tell me better than I could remember.
I have to disagree with everyone else's comments and I will explain why. This video and its contents is 'MEh Meh and Meh again'. This video for no good reason whatsoever is having a dig at Lee of Andertons, simply to get views and likes for his 'UA-cam' channel.
62k views = about $60 dollars? Don't spend it all at once....
Completely pointless video, all that is going on is, (you might have heard of this term?)' 'Marketing'. So what if Lee does not 'disclose', every single company he is involved in. If Mr Andertons was using a company as a cover, to import Columbian finest white powder. You would have a story but this is just Meh, and pointless.
In the Uk for years Jhs, (not Josh the other one based in the uk), had a magazine in music shops that advertised their own gear, and of course, gave it glowing reviews. No one gave two dumps about that, and no one should really give the same about this video and its contents.
@@james1658KAAY, Lee’s burner account. Stop being so butthurt. You’re obviously in the minority here. These are the type of videos that are liked and shared, thus growing the channel. Keep a close eye on KDH’s subscriber count over the next month and get back to me on whether he’s gained or lost followers.
@james1658 . Yup. I've been to companies House and I can't see a link between KDH and Buckfast? Hmmmmm. Suspicious, you decide.
@@james1658 I'm sorry, if this is how you do marketing in the UK then you are breaking the law. This is a story that evolved out of a question that MANY people in the industry and consumers of these products have asked MANY TIMES. That question was simply, "Who owns Victory?". The fact that Andertons came up was not a fabrication for views. It was part of the answer that was hidden underneath our noses.
I'm sure you are a fine person but I can't help but entirely disagree with your sentiment and your point of view.
When I saw the signature amplifiers I assumed Lee Anderton was involved with Victory.
Absolutely it’s not a long shot to arrive at that conclusion
Same
I mean, I guess it was dubious. But, as KDH points out, the law is very clear and communication on such matters has to be crystal clear.
Even if the assumption is an obvious one to make, you still have to disclose such things.
I absolutely didnt think that.
I just thought that Victory is a young team of guys that is heavily betting on the youtube game with abdertons because they are just friends
It’s called business, our PM has shares in Moderna through an offshore company he hasn’t declared it and he awarded a £150 billion deal over ten years to Moderna.
Lee has said at some point in those videos that he was involved with Victory amps. Nothing surprising here.
The high comedy of this is that UA-cam served up an Amderton's advertisement in the middle of watching yiur video.
I think it's probably pretty safe to say that Andertons is involved in any brand that has a Rabea/Danish Pete/Chappers et al signature model.
I've watched a lot of Anderton's videos for guitar/gear reviews, so naturally it peaked my curiosity when I came across this video. And while it doesnt appear that there's an earth shattering conspiracy regarding Anderton's that we all should be concerned about, and it doesn't bother me in the least if someone's partnership with a company is 100% transparent, what I will say is that your thoroughness in which you laid everything out (no doubt as a result of a lot of research) was appreciated, and the articulation in which you spoke was commendable. Other than that, to each their own as to what intrigues you and the topics you decide to talk about, but as for anyone at Anderton's, including the gentleman you specifically referred to, I feel they do an overwhelming amount of good for all of us thru their videos that would easily offset any issues such as the ones you mention in this video. They appear to be genuinely good guys from everything I've seen.
These videos are excellent btw, you have a real knack for this kind of stuff, great work.
Great video.
What’s weird is that Lee could have gone the exact opposite direction with his disclosures and garnered a lot of interest and respect. “I have access to some of the best ears and fingers in the UK, I’m an expert in guitar products, my team and I have played virtually every guitar amp ever made, yada yada” and made this a selling point, rather than a secret.
Keep up any videos and content you do
Totally Agree
Had he been honest from the start, there would be no problem. Now he has a ten year history of hiding his conflict of interest. His credibility is gone.
You think the other amp manufacturers they stock would have been cool with it?
It could be the other partners wanted his involvement secret on the vids to get a buzz going and he played ball. Maybe a hard one to admit to after ten years.
KDH is not here to make friends, props mate, excellent work.
It's a BUSINESS and he's a BUSINESSESMAN
But BUSINESSES need ETHICS. Without them the CUSTOMERS get tricked
Great video. I really like the Andertons channel and their content and I'm surprised that this was not disclosed straight up, as I do recall some of the videos with disclaimers related to other brands. Based on this, I would expect them to at least put out a short video owning up for transparency's sake.
Outstanding quality of work. Documented investigation, no personal bias, no drama, no unnecessary shade thrown at Andertons. That's a 10/10 from me.
Honestly think it's his best video yet 11/10
This video is fucking pathetic.
Personally, I felt there was significant shade and drama - I don't have a dog in this fight mind you, but i definitely felt the tone was very provocative.
The way it came across to me was "I'm going to be snappy and condescending for nearly a half hour at Lee Anderton, even tho when I directly asked him he said 'yup I'm part owner'".
The video is called andertons big secret you mug it's blatant drama clickbait bullshit. grow up
I gotta say KDH, When I first started watching your videos a while back I was like "man this guy hates everything". (I am laughing while I write this). But as time has marched on, I realized that you are the hero we need. I love your content keep up the great work.
same!
I was typing my own comment when I noticed this one and you said what I was trying to say in a much better way. So I'll just say "True Dat" 😁
You know, leeches are pretty disgusting little creatures, but they can be useful time to time, heroes for some, parasites for others, so is KDH.
And if there is no new YT drama, just invent your own, right?
Just some toughts for the internet moral police... LOL
This is not moral issue...more breaching laws issue
@@roko650serious point me to the law that has been breached?
Show me the numbers proving that Lee makes more selling a Victory amp than other brands. They push Boss Katana amps more than any other, and have time and again said that they are their best selling amp line.
What he makes per amp sale isn't really the issue. As an owner, he has a special interest in protecting his investment. He stands to gain much more if Victory grows and takes a larger share of the market, and he has a lot more to lose if Victory fails. If anything, him making less selling Victory amps would give him an even bigger incentive to push them harder, since it would mean the company he has a stake in isn't turning a healthy profit.
Since Victory amps started to frequently appear in Anderton's videos I just naturally assumed that it was a house brand. Nevertheless I wouldn't have guessed the actual complexety behind it all and KDH once again delivers in clearing things up!
Me too, I've never heard of them until I kept seeing them on Andertons videos
The Landlord one really surprised me. As far as I know, they never acknowledged being a part of that, while also liking them very vocally. That sounds very dubious to me unfortunately.
I’ll never forget I once bought a landlord pedal from andertons that turned out to be faulty and I just wanted to return it, not swap for a non faulty unit. The rep actually tried to convince me to swap it as “It works out better for us if we just exchange tone city stuff”.
Which gave me 2 impressions.
1) Respectfully, I don’t give a shit what “works out better for you”, give me my refund 😂 and
2) “Oh, so Landlord pedals are just rebranded tone city circuits”.
Not a slight on Landlord though, I’ve used a lock-in tuner for ages, great little unit.
@@BaBaBaBenny well, any shop would rather give an exchange than a refund.
Dodgy as F
@@BaBaBaBenny Tone City, Landlord, loads of those in-house brands are exactly the same pedals. Just rebranded for their respective retailers.
Same goes for most of the Aliexpress pedals and a lot of the other cheap mini-pedals on the market.
@@lueysixty-six7300 Naturally, I've just never had an employee directly tell me that to my face whilst I was trying to get a refund... O _ O
Hey KDH. The following brands are legally affiliated with either Lee or Andertons. Ive also included the gross profit margins on products when sold via Andertons.
Tone City Pedals - 70-80%
Landlord FX Pedals - 70-80%
Chapman Guitars - 35-45%
Burns Guitars - 30-40%
Tourtech - 50-90%
Stagg - 50-80%
Faith Guitars - 30-45%
Eastcoast Guitars - 45-55%
Victory Amps - 35-50%
There are probably more, but this is what can be remembered. Source- Ex Andertons employee.
Interesting list! Perhaps some involvement in Thorpy pedals as well?
I would have been surprised if Tone City wasn’t on the list or if someone listed it.
@@JamesMears76 he uses ThorpyFx to help design some Victory pedals (but only because Dan Coggins is a ThorpyFX employee, not because Adrian has any talent whatsoever). Otherwise he'd employ Coggins directly and not deal with the secretly most hated man in FX pedals.
@@ghalsor the signature Rabea and Danish Pete signature pedals, sold for £44.99 were purchased by Andertons for £8.31 a unit. If you bought both, you got a "free" power supply and daisy chain. The plug was £1.10, the daisy chain was £0.51 (normally retailing at £9.99 and £4.99 respectively). So you'd pay £89.98 for £18.23 worth of product. That applies to any and all Tone City mini-pedal deal.
@@JamesMears76 unfortunately not that I can remember. But it probably shows why Lee was incentivised to use Thorpy for Victory.
I did hear a few years ago while working for PMT that Victory was partially owned by Anderton’s/Chapman and that was why we couldn’t stock them. But honestly I get it because now they’re a great brand where as before they were very close to collapse on a number of occasions. I also just assumed it was mentioned by them that this was the case but I guess I just filled the gaps based on what I knew from work
Pretty much thought everyone knew that Andertons had an interest. Also thought it was pretty much accepted that their channel was about selling stuff. So why the surprise.
Because a witch hunt brings clicks! What a useless c__t
One thing I really like about you KDH, is even when you have dirt on somebody, you don't belittle them for it. You are always straightforward with the facts, and forward about the ethics on why you are doing it, without outright attacking anybody's character. It really allows me to trust your work more as it doesn't seem like a way to mindlessly stroke your ego about being right, but because you actually care about getting to the bottom of these issues.
Keeping business owners responsible and helping to protect consumers. KDH doesn’t need insults and nonsense for that!
What’s the “dirt” here?
@@FlyingCircusAct dirt is a pretty vague word when used like this. In this case I’m just meaning potential drama. But KDH doesn’t make it any worse than it already is by adding any more drama, he respectfully brings to light consumer issues in an incredibly professional way. This is genuine journalism and I was just being a bit hyperbolic for brevity.
@@WeyounSix I appreciate your honesty, extremely rare in todays world. I’m still left wondering where the issue lies, is there pending litigation with this? Something “shady” going on? From what I’ve witnessed, Lee’s fair across the board with amp reviews and the like. Not sue what I’m missing.
@@FlyingCircusActThe issue is that as an influencer you need to be transparent about where your interest lies. We all know he has a vested interest in Andertons and the channel is there to sell products from his shop. No issues there. What we didn’t know is that he is part owner of Victory a brand that he pushes continuously over other amp manufacturers. People watch that and assume it’s unbiased as he sells all of them anyway. Whet he’s not saying is that he also has a vested interest in that brand and it’s market share, therefore it’s not an unbiased opinion but one made as the owner of that company who stands to make money from the sale of Victory no matter where you buy them from.
I have definitely seen Lee in an Andertons video from a few years back mention that he had an involvement in Victory, I remember it as he just mentioned it in passing and my ears pricked up thinking ''well you've never mentioned that before''. Not really a problem but something to bear in mind when they are pushing Victory products.
Really? Can you share the videos? I don't think I've heard him say anything about any involvement with the brand. But I haven't watched every video. But KDH couldn't find anything either.
I mean, other than being friends or helping in development or whatever.
Yeah he had involvement, he would give advice and be asked his opinion on products. He compared speaker cabinets etc. "Involvement" and "part ownership" are quite different though.
@@thebigb3ard exactly. Rabea has involvement (and discloses it). Lee has something else.
@@mrcoatsworth429 Now you're asking... it was just a passing remark in one video, as I recall he was kind of 'off set', hand held camera 'behind the scenes' sort of stuff, pointing out a Victory prototype in the corner of the room, I think a 'work in progress' for a potential signature for Rob or Rabea. What he said wasn't a 'we're working with them' kinda thing, it was definitely something inferring that Andertons had a stake in Victory. As I said, that's why my ears pricked up and since then it's always been in the back of my mind when they feature Victory Amps. It was only a five second bit in a video maybe 3-4 years ago. Good luck finding it!
@@mrbrick5907 Thanks! Well, I'm not about to look for it myself haha Now we know what his involvement is.
But what do you mean by "now you're asking..." At what other time should I have been asking?
Can't wait to hear Lee Anderton play a pentatonic scale over this vid...
I've been in business for decades and it's very common for an investor in a business to want to be a "silent investor".
There is nothing dishonest or underhanded in that practice (generally).
Being a silent investor means that brands are not forced to be associated with each other, so if a consumer hates a brand or a brand owner/investor, it doesn't need to affect a different brand just because the two brands might share one or more investors.
Also, good business strategy allows for exit scenarios, like selling the entire brand later, closing down a brand, or taking it public on the stock exchange etc.
Investors being "silent" allows better (ie; more successful) business practices in all of these cases, and an investor being publicly known puts limitations on all of these cases.
Regarding Andertons and this brand there seems to be nothing that I would call immoral or even underhanded. Lee made it clear the Victory brand was from a "good friend" and Andertons has publicly promoted the brand in an obvious fashion. Any reasonable consumer woukd know that Andertons promotes this brand and has some form of "association" leading them to make profits from selling or even pushing this brand.
Andertons, like any retailer, exists for ONE PURPOSE; to sell product.
In my opinion Lee Anderton has the right to be a visible investor or SILENT investor in any brand he chooses, and as a reasonable, informed consumer, I would expect Andertons have some sort of "deal" with any brand they promote.
KDH, you have a very bright future. Smart, young, and driven. We are watching you grow up right in front of us and you're doing great. Never lose sight of your goals. Remain humble and never compromise your own integrity.
Lee is a slippery one. It makes watching any new gear review mighty tough to look at without doubting eyes.
Andertons should really pass the reviews of Lee owned or partially owned items to someone else.
Transparency is a valued trait these days
I work for a sheet metal company round the corner from straight edge and we laser cut the badges for the victory amps
Great video! You really do your homework and don't just go for drama. You are becoming Guitarzilla (which is meant as a compliment, in case you are not a fan of him 😁). Keep at it.
I will watch Lee's response in a bit, but I imagine he appreciates what you do as well even if you call him out like this.
As someone who, years ago, quit my job as a daily newspaper writer over a matter concerning integrity, honesty, and what I was and was not allowed to write about something, I appreciate your investigative integrity and tenacity in attempting to get to the bottom of things and then not being afraid to say it regardless of what people will and will not conclude.
I've really nothing against Andertons as a business, however, unlike a lot of people, I've never been much of a fan of their videos; they've always come across as a bit cliquey to me, so it was interesting to find, as a result of your investigative efforts here, that there is apparently something more substantial in terms of ownership and interests to that cliquey feeling than just my personal perception.
And with regards to ASA standards breaches, as well as having been a news writer in the past, I also worked in advertising for a number of years. So I can tell them from a position of some personal experience that they really do need to get on that and correct things not merely as a matter of integrity, but also to avoid some potential fines and other punitive measures, because the ASA does actually have some teeth when it comes to things like that.
Retired newspaper journalist here in the U.S. I agree with your analysis as well.
I don't think any standards are being broken - Lee is an investor in Victory as a private individual, not the store, and the videos are the product of the store (which he happens to own as a separate entity).
Is there a conflict? Yes, but it is hardly a scandalous one - see my comment, this is a niche industry dealing in pretty small money values, so raising capital is very hard and this sort of arrangement is very common.
Let me put it this way - if Lee's involvement in Victory, as one of 9 owners and the primary dealer, is £100k, but his involvement in Andertons where his is the principal is, say, £5million, then I can see why he doesn't really see it as a conflict, and why he always says "those guys at Victory". He doesn't see his minor-to-him financial investment as being a big deal. He also doesn't see much return on that compared to what he sees from, say, Chapman (whose value is only £250k, by the way - did I mention that this is a NICHE industry?).
@@MrLivebynight If you have to hide your ownership of companies you review, then it's obviously a hopelessly dishonest position. The dude proved he has no personal integrity by sticking to keeping his personal ownership role for 10 years under wraps as he tried to give his investment a boost with his "unbiased" rave reviews. That is about as obvious an example as you can have, of a completely biased individual who knows how little credibility glowing reviews of a company from one of it's owners are afforded.
So in other words, he understands his own bias very well and how that appears to consumers, hence decided to hide it, and he can't pretend it was a moment of weakness, since he continued to cover it up as he ran a stealth promotion campaign for them disguised as unbiased reviewer comments, publicly for a decade. It wasn't a decision to lie once, but to hide the truth as ongoing policy, from the intended audience (amp shoppers), to influence their buying behavior towards the only behavior that was going to boost his portfolio of business holdings; for a decade.
He hid the truth as he was later forced to admit and made a pathetic excuse for, to make people believe he wasn't involved, because he wanted his promotions to be mistaken for unbiased reviews from a brand fan with no personal stake in whether people responded by purchasing or not. Does honesty mean nothing to you, that even legal standards aren't low enough; you have to excuse the lies of someone who can't even manage to muster up the personal integrity to stay on the right side of advertising laws?
@@Gregorypeckory Perfect summation of the situation. Clearly Anderton lied by omission in every Video with a Victory amp in it. He must have considered that before the cameras rolled, every time. Chose not to be honest. I think it's pretty serious stuff. The other amp makers featured in those videos should seriously consider their relationship with andertons. The videos have to be treated as biased.
Kinda unrelated to the video, but your story gave me major flashbacks. I used to have a little blog reviewing things from time to time and when I was at uni I got a gig as a content writer for a review site. I wasn’t studying journalism or anything and it didn’t pay much, but given my only other income was stocking freezers at a supermarket twice a week and repairing gameboys to sell on eBay it was very appreciated!
They were also pretty patient with me as I was very green - I had to learn real basics of professional reviews like you can’t say it’s bad, you have to say it’s stronger in other areas or find a positive on the back of a downside, the top 5 shootouts, etc that get more traction and mean you can say x is great for y, a great for b, etc and avoid saying directly ‘this is pants’.
That was all kind of okay, I learnt to play the game - you’re selling ad space and advertisers don’t want any beef, they might even be suppliers of products you’ll be reviewing in a different article, plus if you say everything’s crap people stop giving you stuff, and not a lot of places can afford to buy all their review products and turn a profit. It is what it is - I think most people understand; it’s kinda like the 5 star rule right? If it’s a professional product review or a coffee shop eating on google, the scale doesn’t really go from 0-5, it goes from 4.0-5.0.
But then I ran into one company I just couldn’t review. Every time I reviewed a product it’d get bounced back to me and they were not accepting anything other than glowing reviews. I read reviews other had read for the site and it was all the same and this just went on and on. I’m actually keeping the product field and publication under wraps because this is going back 15 years and I don’t know who owns it now or what the deal is, but yeah it kept bugging me. I’d try and not review the products, and keep getting assigned them. I asked over and over if this is just some kind of paid product placement or a big advertiser or anything I could understand or had encountered before and all I got was weasel words along the lines of it’s not about the brand, it’s about what you wrote… and it was all too fishy. I was at u I do didn’t care too much, but eventually looked into it, and it turned out it was just really invidious. Our publication was owned by this investment capital whatever firm that of course also owned this other company but when I started asking other writers about that it came out that it was actually all about pumping this company for an IPO and all manner of people were heavily invested personally in it. I figured my option at that point was invest myself and drink the cool aid or quit, so I quit. It kinda jaded me to how a lot of stuff works tbh
I actually had already thought Victory was an Anderton’s house brand but I can’t recall why.
The whole UK gear manufacturing and retail industry is a very small circle
EXACTLY! This kind of weird "i gotcha" shit is not really warranted here. It's so unbelievably small and informal. Hence why Lee refers to them as the guys at Victory. The reason why he talks about Victory that way is because he FEELS that way. Instead of bleating "I OWN THIS BRAND GUYS" (or something far more reasonable) before playing something on one, he shows respect to the guys who DO run Victory's day-to-day shit and apply their awesome knowledge. I assume, at least partially, that the reason why Lee refuses to see himself as equal with them is because of that HUMAN dynamic. KDH, you're too rigid in how you're seeing this. Brand presentation, rigid assumptions about many things without self-reflecting on your own demands. How do you think the guys at Victory who are responsible for the hard work to create the product itself (the focus should be on who makes it in terms of HANDS ON THE PRODUCT) feel about this guy blasting that he is the owner? You need to think more critically KDH. There is nuance to these things. There's a lot more with the whole brand identity thing and I don't want to type up a whole storm about it.
I have to agree.
Still should be open about it
Same here. No surprise for me......
@@JR_Taylor Think more, meaning critically attack your own position and/or try to build up Lee's so you can see more and find the correct conclusion by rocking back and forth between the practices to arrive at a more rounded understanding by settling between the two extremes. I don't think my position is extreme, there are valid reasons to reduce transparency on certain things because as buyers, we don't think in terms that are conducive to logical conclusions. Everyone suffers from this, that's what Lee was trying to say about the pedals being blindfolded. There's nothing secret or shady about this, it's how the consumer mind works
Excellent video once again my dude! congrats. Someone's gotta do it.
Your like the Pet Detective for Guitars, Amps and Skull Doggery - Good Job - love the details you dug up !
It's called a "lie of omission". It's clearly purposeful to prevent perceived bias. Thanks P.I KDH! 😁
But is it illegal? 🤔
@@Ebbandflow805 It certainly can be. It depends on the motive, consequences,and the "damage" it can and could cause (and how many lawyers your company has) It's always illegal morally. At least in my definition of morality.
I think it's kind of weird that Lee didn't just say he owns a major/minor stake in Victory for disclosure. He's usually pretty good about disclosing that. I actually had assumed Victory was related to Andertons in some way for years until the Tone Talk episode... which isn't great in light of this video. I mean, Rabea, Rob, and Pete all ended up with signature amps and I think those were all of the big guitar hosts.
i'm pretty sure we already knew Andertons owned Victory? Like i was already sure of it for some reason? They must have mentioned it when the amps were first coming out, also at the start they basically only made amps for Rob Chapman, so i guess i had this narrative in my mind that Martin Kidd started making amps for Rob and then Lee bought the company to develop the brand, or something like that, anyway they are undeniably great amps at pretty great prices, so in the end, who cares?
Post rationalisation memory syndrome
Congratulations on your Sherlock-Holmes-Mode investigative capabilities. I watched the whole thing although i'll probably never buy from Andertons because of taxes but i like their videos. I think it's smart to own as many brands as possible at least in part because that's what grocery discounters do and it seems to be very profitable. You could say he learned from the best.
This has absolutely become my favorite guitar channel. It's so refreshing to hear calm and articulate news about the industry. It's like a high-gain channel for grownups. No prattle at 100 mph, editing out the pauses and saying "bruh" every 20 seconds. Sweet Jebus, please keep doing what you're doing \m/
Watching KDH become the go-to name in down-to-earth guitar reporting has been a real treat! Keep it up mate!
Really well done and kept my interest the whole segment! Keep up the great work!
First time I've watched this channel. Kudos for the time and hard work put into making this video.
At the end of the day though I'm left shrugging my shoulders as saying "so what?"
As I mentioned, first video I've watched on the channel but I'll watch more to get a feel for what it's all about.
Very fair comments and information from KDH here. Chapper's probably watched this and thought 'Whew, thats a relief, I got off lightly... glad he didn't go after me this time around'. 😬
I'd watch a Lee Anderton masterclass on marketing.
It would be a short masterclass.
He just got on UA-cam and ran with it .
@@willrobertsmith also, credit where it is due, it was Rob Chapman who got him on UA-cam and built him an audience.
@@richardharrold9736 ehh, I'd argue the "without busting the bank" series and Rabea Massaad's playing in those is what put them on the map in terms of youtube views.
@@mikel5163Chapman too, to be fair.
Nice investigative and reporting. You are creating a form of journalism of the music business which will spread sunshine over the dark places of the industry. Great work. I look forward to more.
Great video. Your hard work is appreciated.
I guess I always just assumed Victory was an Andertons thing based on how often their amps appeared in Andertons videos and how the aesthetics looked in line with Andertons aesthetics.
So many time your video keep me on the edge of my seat watching!! Your an accomplished story teller! Usually I start watching them just wanting to space out for bit and end up with dry eyes because I forget to blink.
Very good work but I can't get overly excited about this one. I think Lee's point that he's not a director/managing partner isn't unreasonable. Owning a stake probably should've been declared yes. I'm just not sure I see it as a big gotcha.
These investigation videos are the reason why I love the channel. You are never satisfied with half the job. You always go fully into every facet! Thanks again for an excellent - and needed - search for the truth!
His pursuit can be a bit dubious. What point is he trying to make? Or is there no point at all other than to create the mystery, where there has not been "a lie" to compromise a product lines' quality. He is trying to make a name for himself like many "UA-cam influencers". The U.S. had Woodward & Bernstein. Where KDH is from........well, has KDH.
@@2010njdevilAre you stupid? The point he makes is blatantly obvious.
Never thought it to be a secret with all the videos of them helping with development and promotions, I assumed they had financial involvement.
This is what I thought too. Had never heard of victory until they were on Andertons, so I assumed they were linked through ownership.
Plus, even if they weren’t linked in ownership: they sell the product. Every product they talk about is one they’re selling. In the case of someone whom you already know is trying to sell you something, whether or not they own part of the parent company is…not really informative.
@@NewnodrogbobAs KDH said in the video, this isn't the case if you live outside the UK - an Andertons video could be seen as fair to each amp they compare, and any bias towards Victory in that video could sell you an amp from a local dealer (when you didn't know it was the owner telling you it beats a Vox/Marshall/Fender/whatever)
@@matthewwatt2295 I am in the US. This is a bullshit argument. KDH says in the video that the retailer’s cut of the profit will be “close to” the same for all products. Define “close to.” Unless Lee owns the Lion’s share of Victory and is making huge profits from them, the differences between the deals from each manufacturer will be as significant an introducer of bias as the dividends from his stock. Since I don’t know the ins and outs of those deals, I don’t just blindly follow what the Anderton’s guys say. Not that they generally endorse one product over another anyway.
It’s also worth noting that these aren’t print articles. They’re recording the gear. The viewer/listener is given plenty of data from which to draw their own conclusion. This isn’t just some pitch man telling you that their soap is the best.
This is a big fat nothingburger. Turns out when you get your clicks by being a muckraker, you have to constantly be on the lookout for new muck to rake.
@@Newnodrogbob Honestly, I see where you're coming from, those are some good points. I think this video has done its 'job' by getting Lee to publicise the fact he partially owns Victory amps so people know that when he talks about them. I'm not a huge fan of the 'drama' angle from the title/thumbnail either.
I hope someday Lee can own all the companies. Maybe after Lee owns all the companies Dave Grohl can do all the music and the two can control the entire global music scene.
Dave Grohl makes Lee Anderton look like an amateur. He really is utterly ubiquitous.
Bahahahahahaaa!! That’s hilarious mate. Lol😂❤
The Best The Best The Best The Best The Best The Best The Best
hahahaha
@@richardharrold9736 Tell me about it I'm so sick of his face I can't listen to Foo Fighters anymore.
I always had some kind of suspicion about it! That was a great investigative job man!!🤘
For some reason I already knew Victory was Anderton. Not sure what made it obvious anymore, but it was clear to me for some time.
Some time ago I‘ve tried to look up the exact same thing, but stopped at the official trade mark database - I couldn’t draw the link from there. Congratulations, well done!
Hmm....who would bring out a Rob Chapman tribute amp??? Should have been able to answer that one quite some years ago 😀
Nothing but respect for Lee Anderton, he is a great personality and a great businessman apparently.
Great business knows how to make great money. Great men are true and integer. The combination of both words would also gather the related attributes, wouldn't it?
I've always liked Lee, but there is an undeniable issue of questionable ethics when a person is advertising his own products whilst hiding that he's doing so. It's not a biased review, and should be taken as such.
US viewer here that Really enjoys your videos. Thorough and evenhanded. Not in a million years would I have predicted I'd find the intrigue of the UK music gear scene so compelling! Well done, KDH
The Landlord doesn't have to visit the effects pedals in order to collect the dividends. Given the prominence of Victory in the videos it did feel very interwoven. Wouldn't be surprised if Lee was more involved with the other brands like Tone City
I've not always agreed with everything you've done on this channel. But, this is genuinely important information that the public should know. I always thought that Andertons fondness for Victory and how often their amps are featured on the channel was simply out of a genuine fondness for the product and wanting to support a fellow British company. It seems that actually, there was an undisclosed commercial interest behind it. People seem to forget that Andertons are an equipment selling business FIRST, not a UA-cam channel. Great job bringing this to light!
Who cares?
@@creamwobbly I think it matters because it's a very simple question that someone has gone out of their way to avoid/hide. It's disingenuous, which I find interesting. You're correct about American vs UK disclosure laws, but I don't think that changes the matter of transparency, whether it's legally required or not. Just my two cents.
Great documentary, always believed Rob and Lee were involved in Victory. Always think you should be up front and let your audience or potential customers know you are involved in an item you are reviewing.
Good job man! Impressive research
I love it when KDH drops one of these videos. He's exposed a lot of stuff about the guitar world and anyone with a hint of curiosity could watch these and walk away more informed.
he does it in such an elegant way.
Yeah but none of it really matters and imo comes off as douchey
he took a LOT of flak from chapman's fans, and has come around to it so full circle that he continue his reporting on the issue, and even met rob and namm
@@7DavesToDieIt absolutely matters. We should know that Lee, who owns a giant channel and music store, partially owns Victory. If Anderson's didn't stock them, no. But they do and he does videos on them regularly.
He’s an utter moron. Something wrong with him.
Just as an FYI. GAP isn’t Andertons. It’s a distribution company owned and run by the owners of Guitarguitar, Andertons and PMT (GAP is an acronym of their companies) so that they could have more buying power on certain products. They realised they could make more margin on cheaper products instead of going through companies like Stagg. Companies like Eastcoast and TourTech exist only for this purpose. You’ll notice only these three companies sell these brands.
Great investigating though.
You're a brilliant journalist . This is fantastic ....thx
The problem isn’t that Andertons owns part of Victory, it is content channels desperate for talking points that will make a mountain out of it. All his products have different profit margins from Chapman to fender. Honestly who’s gives a crap they have never bashed anything they sell ever
Fantastic work, man! Thanks for shedding some light on this. Lack of transparency where transparency is due is always an issue and needs called out.
This video was again a complete treat! I love these videos and appreciate the work put into it.
I have nothing against Lee, seems like a good guy and I think he's a good businessman that at least tries to do mostly the right thing. At least compared to MANY others.
Lee Anderton is a British success story.
ok, you are obviously related to Lee.
And KDH seems like an ordinary guy looking to make a name for himself by putting reputations in to question(Are you related to KDH?)......Partially direct and full of innuendo(leading the witness , your Honor.....) Is he next going to crush the magic for Aussies by telling them that Vegemite was ownd by Kraft until it circled back to Australian owenership in 2017 just so someone could curse out us "damn" Yanks? Or, and I do not believe this, is KDH simply providing answers to questions only he is asking. @@patrickjamesworrow1130
I think the question would be, What companies does Lee Anderton have interest and investment in?
Nothing wrong with it, but would be nice to see the list
I just want to express my appreciation for your efforts. Great journalism, very well researched and elegantly presented.
Very kind of thee, I would also donate if I had income
Looking forward to a KDH Victory signature amp 🇮🇪
Looking forward to buying from your shop when it’s up and running.
You and Benn Jordan are the closest we have to UA-cam investigative music journalists, and even thought I know you'll rebuke that title, it's a very meaningful one. Truth on this website is very hard to come by now.
Bravo !! you spotted it ... since few years now, I do not take anymore any of their "tests" or "gear comparisons" videos from their channel as a reference that would tell me what to buy or not to buy .. They are all friends and have all crossed interests ... including Danish Pete who has now his own pedals and has obviously a close link with the Boss brand ... and that's ok, I do not care, that's business, but you are right, to be honest and transparent (that's the law, right ?) with their customers, they should tell us. Still I love their videos because Pete does play fantastically (Rob, not really, he makes noises and Lee, well an average player with great riffs but always the same ones ... Pete is definitely the one why I look to their videos, I hope he is well rewarded) ... They are pretty close to PRS as well, and promoting often (far too much in my opinion) their guitars ... is there any Lee/Andertons' involvement in PRS ? maybe yes or maybe no, still the result is that I do not take any PRS demo as an "objective" one ... but this is becoming true on most UA-camr influencers' channels that are endorsed by brands ... The list would be too long ... the main issue I can see is that it is impacting the consumers, us, who are buying their gears ... we can't any longer trust them and it is not because they are mentioning it at the beginning of their videos (like a famous german youtuber/musician/producer, 42 something if you see who I am referring to) : "This is a sponsored video but as you know me, I can say what I want on the gear I am presenting you, I am free to give my honest opinion even if the brands are sending me their gears for free for reviews" ... well, No Mr... there is no more objectivity when you do receive a gear for free that you demonstrate on your channel. As soon as you do a review, it means that you are no longer objective. There is still a few UA-camrs / channels (I can name one at least : Elmo Karjalainen) that are still objective because not already endorsed by brands ... but that won't last long, brands will "kill" their objectivity with endorsing all the channels with a decent number of subscribers, and who would be to blame to receive free gears or money to demonstrate Brand's material ??. That's business. In the end, the only objective opinion anyone can have, is the one we make with testing the gears ourselves before buying them (or not) ... Thanks for your work, it is a tremendous valuable work you do 🙏
Wow, amazing research and video as always man. These conflicts of interest are highly problematic. Superb effort in bringing this to light 🤘
You are the Guitar Conmen Slayer LOL. Good work my friend.
Still bloody good amps
When they did a Danish Pete amp it is pretty obvious who's behind it. We'va all known for years. I never knew about the regulations breach though. CLASSIC KDH! Keep it up!!
To be fair, Pete has earned a signature amp just as much as any of the rest. He's done his share of gigging in big venues with big name artists, and is a bloody good musician.
@@richardharrold9736 and he's sucked Lee Andertons dick an awful lot.
Fellow Irishman and UA-camr here. Been watching your videos for a while now and have to say, dude…For me, this has been the most enjoyable one yet. Superb research, professional standpoint and presentation (not mean spirited in any way, shape or form), and killer points made throughout the duration. Keep doing what you’re doing! ❤🤘
GREAT VIDEO
Shady dealings, of course knowing what a huge audience he has keeping this secret was strait forward a business decision! It's obvious but it doesn't surprise me in the least. I do watch their channel and it's very entertaining but this absolutely does / will have an effect when using the videos to decide between different brands of anything guitar from now on!
1) for the sake of integrity and transparency he should've disclosed ownership b) also it's the law. If he is set to make more money out of certain products demonstrated on Andertons TV, we need to know.
When all the Chapman controversy happened, which you were instrumental in, (pun intended) I realised there was some shady things going on at Andertons.
I watched less of their videos, and valued less of their opinions.
Now I know they cannot be trusted in the way we all thought. The conflict of interest is a powerful motivator for such a huge company.
You are a smart guy, and have brought light to the dark swamp of UA-cam advertising that we all wade through on a day to day basis.
Thank you KDH.
Wow, I’m impressed! Thank you for not giving up on this and doing all the legwork. This has been on more minds than just yours. I do hope Lee follows up with this and admits, at least the smallest of wrongdoing and purposely hiding this. I really hope he does. Thanks again and thanks for not making it any shorter. When it comes to something like this, we want at all.
Doesn’t change my opinion of Lee. Love the guys over at Anderton’s, and that includes Lee.
This would certainly explain why for the life of me, I can't think of ever really seeing Victory amps outside of Andertons videos.
I love them though, and it really is weird if this is all true.
Timestamps
0:00 Intro
1:12 Victory
2:02 Lee Anderton
4:10 Martin Kidd Interview
6:00 Straight Edge
6:50 Trademarks
7:58 Coincidences
11:36 Lees Response
13:12 The Issue ?
15:26 The Guys At Victory
17:00 A bad thing?
21:50 Lees Response 2
25:56 Conclusion
Yeah you gotta keep going in on these characters son,tear they ass up now
Excellent research and presentation as usual. These are not easy vids to make. Very impressive. Thanks.
I've noticed your appearance of health has been diminishing with each video. It's about the music, and your mental and physical well being. Think about it, KDH. You're not posting videos of yourself playing. Music is about the song. Not the politics of product production. Think about it as you investigate the image in the mirror
he seems to be in a pretty good shape in my opinion .. and I guess his choice, as a musician, is to not only show him play, but to inform us on what's happening in that industry which is living and existing because of us, consumers, who are buying their gears ... sometimes based on lies and false reviews unfortunately ... KDH work is tremendous, extremely valuable and we should thank him for that.
These videos get the views. It's what everyone wants to watch. If you want the music go look up his band W.A.L.K.E.R.
What's odd to me is that Lee generally does disclose ownership (like you showed). It makes you wonder why he doesn't with Victory.
I think it's likely exactly what Lee said, that with the other brands he is an active member and on the board or equivalent, with Victory he is, assumably, just an investor.
@@alittlebitgoneNo, being a partner is exactly (well, not exactly exactly, but you know what I mean) the same as being on the board of a company.
@@alittlebitgoneBaloney. 10 years of pushing VA w/o once mentioning a financial interest. Even an accidental mentioning … no, he intentionally misled people by never saying anything while acting like the reviews were unbiased.
@@carpediem4413 I don't think it's as cynical as everyone's making out. Knowing Lee, I would have thought it's less shrewd money grabbing, and more likely just not wanting to take credit for the work of others, though I do understand that in this cancel culture we live in people will prefer to jump on the bandwagon and demand his head on a plate. Are Victory amps rubbish? Anyone I know who has a Victory product or has owned one loves them. So maybe he is biased, or maybe his bias is based on believing in a well made product that he invested in once. Nobody really knows how much money Lee Anderton does or doesn't receive for his investment anyway. I don't think there's a story here, personally. If you're basing your £2k amp purchase on UA-cam reviews without going and trying the equipment out, Anderson's or not, then you might have bigger problems.
@@jasonleaman. if it's just Lee not wanting to take credit, then he could publicly state that he was an initial investor in the company but now no longer has any business ties. Easy enough and wouldn't harm any reputations. But he won't say that, will he?
Damn. You are one cold detective. Cheers to you!
Only Sherlock Holmes problem seems to be you in trying to figure out this none sense. Good on Lee for being a businessman.
Brilliant video, good work. Lee was just once FB earlier announcing an amp giveaway with a big thanks to the guys at Victory.
I tend to take videos from Andertons (and most guitar retailers) with a grain of salt because they are all trying to sell gear, so they're never going to be critical of what they're showing, even when they should be. It's almost-but not quite-like a conflict of interest... but this is a whole new version of that because they're hiding their interest in selling a certain brand and that is definitely a conflict
I don't know why people don't understand this. Anderton's is a music store. What kind of videos is a music store going to make? It seems like this is going over people's heads. Very strange.
So freaking epic, I just love what you're doing, KDH, the best guitar channel on earth (imo).