as an experienced Scion player, I would like to share some things I learned about this deck over time, and if someone learns something from this - all the yay. so, 1) Scion is ultra-reliable. you nearly always have the same combos available (molten + tyrant OTK, bladewing into utvara into karrthus etc, karrthus + standardize, skytr + molten ....) and you'll find yourself going through the motions a lot of the times. This is more of a problem than a positive to me, as with so many various dragons and mechanics - you can just usually one shot players or simply go for the same combination of dragons as usual and miss out on the other fun. other players will also learn you like a book, and probably dislike playing against it rather quickly. 2) gimmicky dragons don't usually cut it. stuff like Oros and Crosis and Intet are cute, but there's a few issues on why I eventually figured they can't work in the deck. first and top reason is really hidden in my 1) point; the deck is too damn reliable, and you often have far more powerful plays than using something like Intet's ability to pick some random card off the top of your deck. why care about destroying 2 target lands for 3 mana when you can usually just bash them right outta their seat? not to mention that the mana cost for running all these crazy toolkit creatures with their own costs starts to multiply quickly, with your Scion costing several times 2 to transform then costing 1, 2 or 3 for various activations of abilities, like Regenerate, Redirect (Clockwork Dragon or Quicksilver Dragon is a janky but interesting option for a dragon for sure, for another example of a cool toolkit dragon that costs mana), Haste, Buff and also the consideration that you usually don't wanna just attack once and tap every land just to perform some minor mischief while leaving yourself and Scion open. I mean, I always tend to leave at least enough mana to transform my Scion in case it gets targeted, and since we have Yosei and Keiga for dragons, everyone is on their toes about even touching Scion. Basically, I gave up on nearly all the 'fun' dragons like that except for Teneb, who fits the reanimator flavor and works great. 3) you'll be shuffling your deck a ton per each game, as a 5 color deck tutors lands a lot, then tutors dragons a lot (and mind you, after a while you'll usually just tutor the same lineup involving Utvara, Molten, Bladewing, Karrthus...), then you also probably use some good tutors along with all that. this is a minor inconvenience, but yeah it deserves mentioning. 4) duo to the explosive nature of the deck of being able to oneshot anyone at nearly any time with your commander, people will be eyeing you up a lot during games. If you run stuff like infect dragon or infinite attack phase or turn combos (yes, dragons do those rather easily too) you'll be the main scumbag and the man to kill off first in games. I'll stop right here although I have a lot more to say simply because this wall of text needs to stop at some point. :P so yeah, I personally love the deck, was a bit disappointed that it usually revolves around a few best dragons instead of all of them, but hey, that's how Magic goes. if you have any questions about the deck, I'm happy to try and answer. pardon the rambling!
+breach Hey fellow Scion players. Let me see if there's anything to add: Old Silumgar's (and Dragonlord Ojutai's) hexproof is a great asset to protecting Scion, because as long as you have 2 mana open, spot removal spells are blanked. Also the legendary Kamigawa dragons are just nasty with Blade of Selves. Another utility dragon I like is Tyrant's Familiar, it being essentially tutorable spot removal for annoying blockers. Also you'll have a Lieutenant Commander which sounds cool. You probably know them, Prof, but I'd still like to mention some combos I run in my deck: Having both Savage Ventmaw and Hellkite Charger out gives you extra combat phases for 1 mana each, Moltensteel Dragon cheekily pumps your commander big enough to one-hit-kill with a second transformation into Atarka the Game Ender (or Skittles I guess), and setting up for a Living Death by dumping a ton of dragons into your yard with Scion is sweet. The best dragon you didn't mention, however, is Dragonlord Kolaghan. The last ability reads like it's useless in commander, but a tutorable haste enabler for all your dragons is i-n-s-a-n-e. Reanimate Bladewing and with it Kolaghan and swing for 10 with haste, that's neat. Or Living Death everything and swing for a trillion double strike haste, that's neater. Turn Scion into Kolaghan at any time and give anything else you have haste, it's just ridiculously strong in EDH. Also: Temur Ascendancy. Not just a haste enabler, but it draws you cards when you get dragons, be they cast, reanimated or even tokens from Utvara Hellkite. Finally, Dragon Mage deserves a mention in the toolbox that is Scion. Wheel of fortune at the press of a button is no joke, especially in a deck with this much reanimation. Also thanks for mentioning Bower Passage; I didn't know that one but it's wonderfully efficient. Yet no mention of Sarkhan's Triumph aka Draconic Tutor?
I think you've been misreading Scion (as many players have), Scion does not retain the ability to transform when he transforms. So you can't for example "Moltensteel Dragon pump into a Atarka transformation." Dragonlord Kolaghan is also incredibly redundant with Karrthus if you're only using him for Fervor and in most cases Karrthhus is more worth his slot. Less than .01% of commander decks use one of the cards you can have more than 1 of, but quite a few more include a dragon or 2.
Scion can work with Moltensteel into Skittles (or Atarka) through some stack manipulation. You need to put Scion's transform trigger onto the stack twice. Then with the first resolution, grab Moltensteel and pump it to 10 power (or whatever you need). Once that has resolved let the second Scion transformation resolve to grab Skittles or Atarka. Then attack for lethal. However, it is true that after one transformation has resolved he can't be transformed until the next turn.
Man looking back all those years ago, it was this very video that inspired me to take the challenge of make a 5 color dragon deck and to this day, it is still and will forever be not only my best deck but my favorite deck of all time.
+Tolarian Community College Ok prof, here's an idea for you. I really enjoyed the idea you did with the Kaseto deck, so I had an idea. Why don't you do a little 'commander for beginners' mini series of sorts, taking a look at the many precon commander decks, and then giving viable upgrade tech for them to help people who might be new to the game to have an idea on how to start with a commander deck, and then have ideas on how to upgrade it from there. It'd be interesting to see your takes on these precon decks. maybe even take a single of the decks, and show how to upgrade it for each of it's possible commander options to show how two people starting with the same deck might end up with completely different decks. just an idea for ya.
Scion was my first edh build. This deck is a lot of fun. Savage Ventmaw and Hellkite Charger (or Scion mimicking either) is nuts. Feldon of the Third Path is a favorite in this deck too.
Okay, Professor (or Brian), I already loved you as a UA-camr, but this is the first time I've checked a commander video description. You link every commander video you have ever made, as well as the entire deck list in correct alphabetical order for the said video, as well as giving an amazing video to boot. EVERYONE LIKE HIS VIDEOS AND SUBSCRIBE, FOR THIS MAN IS AWESOME!
@JimmyJames3000 I know your comment was 5 months ago, but that concern never comes into play. Keiga is a legendary creature, so when the tokens come into play the legendary rule triggers and you have to choose which of those creatures to keep. Obviously you keep the non-token one and let all the others die as a state-based action. Since those tokens died (tokens do hit the graveyard, but they don't stay there), their LTB effect triggers. This works for every Kamigawa dragon legend, including Kukusho which gets very mean very fast.
I've been hoping for you to do a Scion guide. I have loved mine since I brewed it up. As with anything, I agree with a lot of your choices, and disagree with a few. I feel you did the deck justice. An interaction I'd love to point out with Hellkite Charger, Scion, and Savage Ventmaw. Having any of these two on field allows for a combo that allows extra combats for a single mana, a devastating and often game ending combo in the late game. Paired with mana doubling cards such as Mirari's Wake or Mana Flare and using the particularly useful wording on Savage Ventmaw's ability, the game will almost always be coming to a grand conclusion.
4am when i saw this video and i nearly had a heart attack. I've had a Scion dragon tribal deck for close to 2 years now, and it is by far my favorite. Honestly, outside of a few cosmetic differences, this is fairly close to my list, which was very reassuring to me that i'm on the right track with it.
Great video! I actually already have a Scion Deck, but this video has given me some new ideas about it that I think I'll keep in mind for future modifications. The thing that surprised me most in this video was no mention of Ojutai, Soul of Winter. If your opponents keep removing your dragons and keep you on the defensive, Ojutai is a great way to buy yourself some time to get your forces back up. Maybe I just run it because my best friend has a hydra tribal deck that is both chock-full of flying creature removal and very weak to continuously tapping down his biggest creatures.
you will probably never read this but, I have been looking for a fun budgetish commander deck. You hit the nail on the head with reanimation 5 color voltron dragon tribal combining all of my favorite casual things that I sadly can not do in modern but look forward to doing in commander. Thank you so much, prof.
Recommendations for next video. I would love to see a guide on Marchesa, the Black Rose as I'm currently building a deck with her. Also, I recently found your channel and am really loving all your content! I really appreciate your dedication to serving the community, and the mix of hilarity and intellect that is the tone of your videos.
Thank You SO MUCH!!! I been really trying to figure out how to do a EDH deck with Scion but my fear was there's so many dragons with very high mama costs that I thought the deck would never fire.
You forgot to mention the easiest way to win the game on turn 5 with one acceleration. Turn 4 put out Scion. Turn 5 use his ability twice, (yes you can activate his ability when one ability is already on the stack. Use the first to resolve ability to turn into moltensteel dragon, then before the next ability resolves you pump up using health for phyrexian mana, or just red mana if it's available. You want to pump 6 times to give your creature +6+0. Then use the 2nd ability to turn into Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon and attack for 10 infect damage, killing the opponent if you go through. Note: this can all be done after the opponent doesn't block right before damage is dealt.
Kinda new to edh, but wouldn't making the second scion ability a copy Skithiryx loose the +1 it gets from molensteele? I thought all power and toughness is changed to the copy.... ?
Actually, I think I found the ruling confirming your strategy. The copiable values of an object are its name, mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and loyalty. These values are usually copied exactly as printed. However, copy effects do respect changes to those values resulting from other copy effects, face-down status, and some effects that set a creature's power or toughness. Looks like it works.
Solid analysis Prof! I'd just like to add that Dragons love speed and gas. To this end, Temur Ascendancy synergises with our high power creatures, giving us both. Same reason we like Sarkhan Unbroken.
This is a treasure for me to find. My brother got into magic last month. Instead of completing we R pooling resources. He got new I went with a slightly older lot online. 5k cards mostly Commons and uncommons. However it came with a good chunk of the working components for a dragon deck and snakes deck. Ordered rainbow last night. Found this vid today. With newer dragon cards at my disposal. tho im filling out with a ramping planes Walker and extra enter the battlefield damage. Then using sirens ruses to be an asshat and deal damage or generate more dragons without actual combat.
Hey Professor, I have a Scion EDH myself with some extra variety. Something to consider is having a Reito Lantern in to put a Dragon you tutored for earlier back into your library. Especially since Scion can tutor at instant speed, in response to a targeted removal finding a hexproof dragon. And just a small note, when you mentioned Tainted Strike, you said it gives all your creatures infect. It's a great instant speed combat trick, but it is only one creature. There is a green sorcery that gives all of your creatures a buff and infect, the name just escapes me at the moment. Anyway, I love the deck tech support videos you've been making. It's opened my eyes to keep a look out for various secret tech that nobody is expecting. If I could add one more thing, would be to mention when there are multiple named cards with the same or similar mechanics as substitutions or additions. Like Dense Canopy that does the same as Bowery Passage, so if you have both in the 99 you effectively double your chances of the effect hitting the board. Or if people played in the Kamigawa block but not Innistrad, they might have a variant already without having to buy another. Thanks again and keep up the great work.
I love this, its pretty amazing and I agree with a lot of this too, i have a scion deck and its pretty consistent. The only thing I can say is that I feel this deck would be very vulnerable to control decks and even faster agro decks. Most of the dragons are perfect; Atarka, Silumgar, Bladewing are must haves, but utility is very necessary in this deck, especially a deck with such high mana costs so the dragons you do put in have to have high effects or do something worth tutoring. A dragon i doubted from the beginning but learned that is irreplaceable is Tyrant's Familiar, with its haste and removal and huge body, it is very efficient. Dragonlord Dromoka is perfect for one of your weaknesses (control) and can win you the game by preventing an untimely Aetherspouts, authorize, or cyclonic rift. Valkas can win you games with a crazy Living Death or even a Bladewing combo. The ramp is good but i also think others are needed like Bloom Tender, Somberwald Sage, Shaman of Forgotten Ways, and of course, Oracle. Yah they die to doom blade but they provide so much advantage, they ramp you two or three or even 5 turns ahead. When the ball gets rolling, commander damage and protection is almost inevitable. Needs more removal too, not for creatures as much, but more for enchantments and artifacts which can ruin your day. But you will also almost always need spot removal. Somethings are too troublesome to let live and will cost you the game with some surprise combo. and another thing i found so useful in this deck is filtering. So important. Dack Fayden, Monastery Siege (which can also be protection), Dragon Wizard and shockingly, Magus of the Bazaar. Let you dig for things you need, get dragons out of your hand that you can't play yet, and also fueling your graveyard for shenanigans with Bladewing, Living Death, Feldon, etc.
Would love to see you tackle; the Reaper King (5-colour scarecrows just seems like a fairly unique deck), Grand Arbiter Augustin IV (loving the look of this guy but not sure how to use him effectively), and finally Ghave, Guru Of Spores, (I built an interesting saprolings/infect deck for less than $40 based on this guy; I'm wondering how competitive and different it is from your suggestions).
+Kevin Scott I ran all 5 of the Invasion cycle dragons and the 5 time spiral dragons, most of them aren't good. But you get a 6 mana 6/6 with flying and they are awesome dragons because of the Lore.
Thanks Professor for putting out this video. I know I am watching this in 2021 but I am building my first tri-colored deck and it happens to be a dragon tribal deck with Karrthus as my Commander (Jund Dragons). But it was good to see that I got a lot of the cards you mentioned, and I am feeling really good about how my deck will turn out.
Here are some cards I put into my Karrthus dragon tribal deck that put in a lot of work and would fit into this very well; Aggravated Assault - if you have Savage Ventmaw on the field, it combos for both infinite mana and infinite combat phases as long as you keep him alive, insane value! Wild Pair and Lurking Predators - constantly fishing out dragons from your library and slamming them down on the battlefield for free feels real good I gotta tell you Deadbridge Chant - insanely good graveyard recursion, especially since you're actively dropping dragons in your graveyard from the Ur-Dragon's ability Mana Echoes - getting a couple mana back for every dragon cast is a real boon and will enable you to do a lot more each turn
+SeraphimKnight I play with Karrthus, and World at War normally means "you die next turn, and on the following turn you'll die as well if you don't pull a nasty trick"
when you asked for recommendations last week i mentioned Gisela so i feel like i got a mini shout out :). keep up the great work prof, and the much needed critical analysis.
This is one of my favorite commander decks in my collection and I must say, Maelstrom Nexus is an absolute house in this deck. Casting a 6-8 drop dragon and cascading off of it is redic. Also the temur sarkhan is actually really amazing for his plus 1 alone as this deck needs card draw to keep things moving. and a lil scion pro tip, Wheel of Sun and Moon. You enchant yourself making all of your scion activations reusable in future turns. ;) ;)
Toshiro is a really intresting commader that not a lot of people know of and he has a intresting board presence as a mono-black spell slinger. also he's a Samurai and you can have your friends "hire" you to take care of creatures that are a problem. you can also double him as a coltron commander as a sub theme to the spell slinging.
Awesome ! Thanks professor, I've been looking for a good dragon EDH guide. Just put together a sliver deck for Commander based on your guide, loving it. Thanks so much for the help!
thx for the great video and for all the great content. I have built a nicol bolas edh deck and my favorite win cons are sark han the mad, scourge of val, and dragon tempest because they read that the dragon deals the damage enabling the planor chaos dragons effects to trigger along with my cmdr. I wish you would have mentioned that to everyone as that can be a combat phase unto itself. Maybe this idea will only be for you and your brewing, but it is fun to take advantage of that small nuance and I bet others would appreciate that trick.
Great video! Been playig Scion for two years now! Although you surely have thought of it, I think you forgot to mention the broken combo of Utavara Hellkite + Scourge of Valkas, which just scores you a ton of burn-damage. To even further add up to this combo you can up your dragon count with Dragon Broodmother and increase, double the ETB damage with Dragon Tempest.
First off great video I have a friend who loves dragons and will enjoy this video! The next Commander should be Kozilek, the Butcher of Truth, don't let the colorless factor detour, I have made a EDH deck with Kozilek and found this deck to be very capable in both multiplayer or one on one. I would love to hear you thoughts on it and anybody else's to.
Hey Prof, I run a Scion EDH deck and I feel there are some honorable mentions that weren't in the video. All of these cards rely on choosing a creature type. Descendants Path, Belbe's Portal, Dragon Arch, Cryptic Gateway - All let you put a creature out for free or a drastically reduced cost. Steely Resolve is a good protection card with the caveat it will also give your opponents the benefit if they happen to have a dragon in play. Thanks for the vids dude!
Yup going to be my next comander beck. I all ready have mass experience with the massive scaled beasts. The brutality they bring is indeed a threat to all at the table. Thank you for the ideas for that extra gasp of air my prey will try to gather. :)
Well, I had a min-maxed Scion deck, but retooled it for flavor reasons. Cut a bunch of great dragons including Hellkite Tyrant, Utvara Hellkite, Dragon Tyrant, Scourge of the Throne, Steel Hellkite, Maelstrom Archangel and others to fit *all* the three colour 'X, the Y' dragons there is, then changed out the objectively better mana rocks for Dragons of Tarkir monument mana rocks. Then squeezed in Ugin and Nicol Bolas. Fun.
Amazing, just what I was looking for! I've been wanting to build a dragon EDH deck for ages, but as I'm a new player those five colours were hard to put into a deck and make it work. I already have tons of these cards, just because I love dragons. Whenever I finish this (with a little tweaking), let's see how all the guys will react to a girl beating them with a dragon deck ;D
If you happen to want an instant win combo through combat, consider a Sword of Feast and Famine or Savage ventmaw as illustrated through the video combo'd with Aggravated Assault. As far as Blade of Selves is concerned it has some really cool interactions. Scion becomes an exact copy of the dragon, so you get all the triggers and copies of the dragons. There have been many games where I won strictly through Dragon Tempest and a mass reanimation spell. During your opponents end step activate Scion Multiple times (You have to put multiple abilities on the stack, once the first ability resolves you lose that ability for that turn) Then Patriarchs bidding, reanimate 8+ Dragons, Tempest Triggers, all the dragons enter at the same time so it sees 8x8 in damage easily 64 damage in increments of 8 easily ending the game
Remember too, that not only do you get ETB effects with Blade of Selves on Legendary creatures, but you get LTB effects too. Kokusho, the Evening Star is a beast with Blade of Selves. 5 player game? Equip and attack. 3 Kokushos enter, and then immediately die. All opponents take 15 damage, you gain 60.
João Arthur Macedo Schatzer it actually does work. The wording says they get exiled at end of combat. With a non legendary creature what you are expecting works out exactly as anticipated. But the legend rule forces you to immediately sacrifice all of those creatures choosing only one left standing. That means the tokens briefly go to the grave and "die" hence triggering each leave the battlefield trigger.
I think Selvala, Explorer Returned is one of the coolest commanders around and the fact that she gives other players cards makes lots of people not want to use her. It seems that most people put her in the group hug category; however, I think there is much more to her. Personally, I run an aura heavy enchantress deck with her as the commander and think of her as another enchantress. When I'm playing someone that hasn't played against my deck before, they usually leave me alone until it is too late and I take over the game with all the synergies that the enchantress archetype provides. I would love to see your take on her Professor.
I run Belbes portal alongside Quicksilver amulet. It is a little more restricted I think since you have to choose the creature type you want to cast with it, but the 3 mana to put your creature onto the battlefield instead of four quite quickly pay for that it costs 5 to cast. Also, Kilnmouth dragon is quite nice aswell in my opinion with his amplify 3 and tap effect. Another fun thing is Thundermaw Hellkite, if you want to tap all fliers you opponent controls and have a clear strike that turn. Dragons are so much fun! :)
Hey Professor, I have a suggestion for videos like these. When showing the cards one by one, can you also show any promo or alternate versions of that card? For example, when showing Dromoka, the Eternal, I noticed a large amount of empty space on screen. It would've been pretty cool to show the Clash Pack version of the card. We, as players, lose nothing from this. It helps you fill out empty space, it puts more magic cards on screen (always a plus), it exposes people to fabulous art, and it gives more options to people building decks (especially for those of us that like to bling out decks). I hope you take this into consideration! Keep up the great work.
Some uncommon green ramp spells great for multicolor decks that run ABUR duals, shocks, and even the BFZ lands are Nature's Lore, Skyshroud Claim, Ranger's Path, and Hunting Wilds. The first 2 are like rampant growth and explosive vegetation, except they fetch any forest and put it into play (not tapped) for the same costs and number of lands, the last 2 are explosive vegetations that fetch forests tapped, though hunting wilds has a kicker that can be played to untap the forests and make them 3/3 creatures with haste. All 4 of the cards can be gotten for under $5 total.
I love this series, particularly because I'm considering making a commander deck for the first time and im not sure who I want as my commander! I've been thinking about animar, soul of elements a lot. So I'd love to see a tech on that.
Finally, my deck!!!! I have a few differences that work better for me though and of course learned a few evasion cards, but it's to see my commander here!!! :)
I would like to correct your comment (or add to it) : You said "hardcasting a dragon muscle" when mentioning Moltensteel Dragon - but forgot to mention that he is 99% of the time the first Scion target if you want to kill a player fast. Perhaps i would say this is my favorite combo in this deck above all. Here's how: Attack with Scion, opponent declares no blocks Activate Scion, hold priority Respond to Scion's ability by activating it again (you now have two Scion activations on the stack). Resolve the second activation, placing Moltensteel Dragon in the graveyard and turning Scion into a copy of Moltensteel Dragon. With the first Scion activation still on the stack, activate Scion's new ability six times. Resolve those six activations one at a time, giving Scion +6/+0 until end of turn. Resolve the first Scion activation, placing Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon into the graveyard and turning Scion into a copy of Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon. Hit defending player for 10 damage, giving them 10 poison counters and killing them. You can also do the same with Dragon Tyrant and double strike for lethal commander damage, if you have Skithiryx in your hand and vice versa. You can do this the turn after scion comes into play, since you have 4 mana available to use them for the two scion abilities. Plus if you played a mana on that turn, it gives you 2 extra mana for protecting your scion with either Bowyer's Passage, Apostate's blessing, Swiftfoot boots, Champion's helm etc. I would say protecting your Commander is one of the most important things in this deck, since he is the main engine of the deck. Sorry for being annoying :)
Kinda new to edh, but wouldn't making the second scion ability a copy Skithiryx loose the +1's it gets from molensteele? I thought all power and toughness is changed to the copy.... ? Moletensteel says "Moltensteele gets +1 until end of turn"
Actually, I think I found the ruling confirming your strategy. The copiable values of an object are its name, mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and loyalty. These values are usually copied exactly as printed. However, copy effects do respect changes to those values resulting from other copy effects, face-down status, and some effects that set a creature's power or toughness. Looks like it works.
There is also the Worldgorger, buried alive/entomb +dance of the dead/animate dead combo where you can keep phasing your board state out until you've used it as many times as you want. This is ideal for mana rocks that add 1 mana of any color and come into play untapped as this will give you infinite every color of mana. If you are lucky enough to have omniscience and grasp the infinite in your hand with this, you should be winning the game. [I recommend buried alive unless you already have another monster in the grave when you use dance of the dead on Worldgorger.] There is the Scion 3 card infinite with Niv Mizzet Firemind and/or Niv Mizzet Dracogenius. Having both of those dragons will let you do damage up to the amount of cards in your deck however if you end your turn and then also cast "clear the mind" you will be able to fire off whatever you discard as another set of damage. This is easier to pull off with Scion as he makes it so you only have to have reanimated/hard casted 1 of those 2 dragons and you don't need "Clear the Mind" in your hand as you will be going through your entire deck with this combo. This not only makes the Worldgorger combo a good buddy, but will give you an alternate win use out of buried alive+animate dead if Worldgorger was shut down. [This combo really only costs you 4 mana assuming you have Scion out [which is indeed the hard part] using both entomb and and reanimate/dance of the dead/animate dead] This also goes with the card that says if you were to draw the last card of your deck, you win. If you aren't ready for that sort of commitment you could also Both of these combos benefit from Demonic Tutor, and Dark Ritual and also makes Mana Crypt and Mana Vault useful as there is colorless mana in those costs and can simplify the early game as opposed to branching out for all 5 colors for anything except on other mana rocks. In the same vein, Chromatic Orrery, Mana Crypt and Mana Vault, sol ring, together can offer superior mana options when comboed out. [Orrery allows all mana to be spent as mana of any color but CMC only requires raw numbers.] Also combos with Worldgorger! Aside from these combos. There is a Blue card called "Show and Tell" which will let you skip the ramping process on 1 dragon in your hand at the cost of giving opponents abilities to play things. The same can be said about "Oath of Druids". And there is Ramos, the Dragon Engine whom makes it easier to ramp up into your dragons and has only a colorless cost and is a dragon. [Really perfect if you can play him before playing Scion.] Can combo with a door to nothingness but... well that would be slowing down because it comes into play tapped. [Can fix with voltaic key or manifold key which will also work on your Orrery, Crypt, Vault or other mana rocks but sorta dead draws otherwise.]
i just made a scion deck yesterday and finally got a chance to test it out a few mins ago :) i was able to cast scion on turn 6 and even kept all 5 color cards and discarded 1 when someone played that card that makes you pick one of each color ;) but by the time i got him out i was dead lol, everyone was attacking me
I've actually noticed that some people don't like to see Scion as a General, possibly because of Kokusho and friends, but interestingly even though I run both him and Nico Bolas (creature) in mine those same people often respect it because of the Favor theme: Dragon tribal, Legendary Dragon Cycle. I first put it together before Tarkir so I don't have the most recent cycles added, but I have the Original Elder Dragons (4/5 signed by artist, Ed. Beard Jr. is awesome!), the Primordials, the Planar Chaos reflections, and the Kamigawa cycle of the day. I have fun playing it, though my friends sometimes got sick of seeing it.
Professor, when are you going to do another EDH / Commander Guide? I enjoy watching these videos the most and I'm always curious to know what people are building and playing.
this video maybe a little old but i have been wanting to build a dragon commander deck for five colors. thanks for the video man,it helped me with its wonderful tips :)
Hellkite Charger and Savage Ventmaw is a killer combo. Attack with both and stack the triggers, so Ventmaw's resolves first, add 3 green and 3 red, then spend that mana plus 1 land, and Bam! Extra combats galore!
yore-tiller nephilim and kaalia of the vast are sick in Scion decks. Yore-tiller gets dragons from GY and Kaalia gets dragons from hand. Nephilim is much cheaper, but lacks evasion. If you play the recursion route, yore-tiller nephilim is insane.
An EDH deck that I really want to build now! I've been looking for a decent deck to build to get started in EDH. I started playing magic with Dragons of Tarkir, and played with a dragons based deck until this rotation with Shadows and haven't moved from standard just yet.
I would like to see a Nissa, Vastwood seer edh deck tech because the power of mono green needs to be shared. I would provide a decklist if needed. Great vids
to help hard cast i'd throw in a Urza's Incubator, and Dragon lord's Servant. Thundermaw hellkite - cheap way to tap all everyone but yours creatures that can fly Avaricious Dragon and Knollspine Dragon - MUST HAVES - both allow card draw and are creatures Crucible of fire - Enchantment that gives all your dragons 3/3 for 4 mana Kilnmouth dragon - Get him out early with 4 dragon cards in your hand and he is a 17/17 for 7 mana that can tap to destroy. Ryusei the falling star - wipe out every creature not flying that under 5 toughness - this dragon is a maybe
Some dragons you may want to consider are the acid-spewer dragon, to give Scion deathtouch at instant speed, and Belltoll dragon for instant speed hexproof to your Scion. Another dragon that is just fantastic in this deck is Dragonlord Kolaghan, who gives all of your creatures haste.
A great card to try in this deck is fires of invention. It helps to not only get dragons out a bit quicker but also leaves mana open for activating scions ability. Its not a super huge advantage but pretty fun to slam down 2 dragons for free and still have lots of mana for scions ability
Torrent of Souls goes great in a Scion deck. You can dump Bladewing into your graveyard and target him with Torrent of Souls to get two dragons, with haste out onto the battlefield. If you have enough mana (9 total) you can transform Scion into Utrava and revive Utvara+Bladewing to get two out Utvaras on the battlefield giving you 6 more dragons!
This looks like an amazing fun and aggro deck. Really want to build this now. For another EDH deck tech, I would LOVE to see your thoughts on a Horde of Notions deck.
"Relentlessy efficient" is exactly the term I have been using for quite a while... ^^ But honestly, Gisela and Gratuitous Violence look a bit like win-more. I would rather turn to Sheoldred, Whispering One first. If she isn't handled immediately, she will just start vomitting dragons onto the board from your graveyard. Anyway, if you want to run non-Dragon creatures, make sure to also play Xenograft and Conspiracy (naming "Dragon"). That way Scion can tutor them up as well ;) . Those two enchantments are good in general (pun intended) in five-color decks with tutor abilities - like General Tazri or Sliver Overlord - or tribal-bound triggers like Reaper King. Thanks for the tip with that green "flyers can't block"-enchantment however, had never heard of it! ;)
Thundermaw Hellkite is also great in this deck because it knocks out flying blockers for a combat round. A tutorable combat trick with Scion and some graveyard recrusion.
This video is neat, but it doesn't delve as much into using Scion's ability as more than a road for dragons from your deck to your graveyard. There's a few things to know about it to get the most out of this commander: 1) Scion's ability drops at instant speed. That means you can use it any time you want, in response to spells and abilities, after blocks are declared, or even on your opponent's turn. That makes some really, really stupid stuff happen. For example: Quicksilver Dragon has an ability that allows you to redirect a single-target spell from itself to another target. So it can act as a counter to a removal spell by activating Scion in response to the spell, mimicking Quicksilver, and then using the redirect for a total cost of 2 (U) mana. 2) When Scion is a copy of another creature, it loses its copy ability. However, you CAN stack the copy ability as many times as you like so long as you don't let one go off. That can either let you fill your graveyard by spending spare mana at the end of your opponent's turn, OR do silly things like activate it twice after (no) blocks are declared, let one pop, turn into Moltensteel dragon, buff up +6 (Or as little as +1 if you only have double strike), then let the second one go off into Skittles, and now there's a surprise 10 infect damage coming in already unblocked. Or even if you're not going that route, Intet, Teneb, Numot, Balefire, etc. all activate their abilities when they deal damage, not when they attack, so when your untransformed Scion is past all blocks, you have tons of options on what sort of damage you want to do. 3) Again, since this is all instant speed (and doesn't even require a tap), you can defend against conditional removal as well. "Destroy target non-artifact creature?" Oh, suddenly my commander is a Steel Hellkite. "Destroy target (color or multicolor) creature?" Whoopsie doodle, looks like I'm suddenly (other color or pure red). Or, hey that spell's white. Scion has no protection, but Stormbreath Dragon is pro-white. Also I've manaramped to such absurdity I'll just become monstrous for 7 and spread some damage around and get some +1/+1 tokens in the meantime. The point is, Scion is a silly, silly card that is unparalleled in utility, from what I've seen, among Commanders. And once you learn to play the spell stack he gets even more absurd.
Wow professor, that's one ruthless tribal deck to be sure, waaay over the power level of any of my decks! I did have one question related to tribal decks. I've wanted for a while to make a skeleton tribal deck, but infect is a big no-no with my playgroup, so Skithiryx isn't really an option, and I'm not really a fan of skeleton ship. I'd be fine with running something outside the tribe, but I'm not sure where good synergy lies.
Thundermaw Hellkite is also a strong card that usually signals the loss of a player, as it lets you swing unopposed with your dragon army, though it likely falls into the Tier 3 variety as its usefulness is basically relegated to just that role. I'm also a personal fan of Dragon Mage, though it can backfire on you pretty easily in EDH but I'm sure I'd still run it because it's a fun card.
Since you did dragons, I'd love to see Angels. Personally, I would like to see Avacyn, Angel of Hope. I have an Avacyn EDH, and that deck is seriously nasty.
Also, I'm building a Zurgo Helmsmasher equipment deck and would love to see your version. If you do, don't forget the basically mandatory addition of Worldslayer
id love to see a video on your views for a kemba white-commander deck, Kaalia of the vast commander deck, and an ulamog colorless commander deck for sure!
Don't know if anyone pointed this out yet, but tainted strike is just "Target Creature" not all creatures. If you want all creatures to get infect, try Triumph of the Hordes
Two things. 1) Could you put these on tapped out rather then just in the description, and 2) This is a great list, and I now want to make this deck. But a deck I was thinking that you should make for your next commander is Rakdos, Lords or Riots.
Swap in psychic spiral to mill out your opponents and/or refill the library with dragons. A good Havengul Lich to reanimate fallen dragons without spiral, as well as give lich a whole new ability.
this is great! it gives me in deep review of most scion player tend to use. though why didn't add protection like Dragonlord Ojutai? most people will try to kill scion and in this video scion's protection is by far only by transfrorming into silumgar. IMO, there should be a combo piece between bladewing and those etb dragons like ashnod's altar and nim deathmantle. (in case most player tend to get bored and need a next game start) but still this review sounds fun! thanks professor!
Have you considered doing one of these videos for Kaalia of the Vast or Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge? I understand they are fairly straightforward generals but you seem to like putting an interesting spin on decks so I would love to see what you come up with!
Another card that would be great for this deck. Dragons Arch. 5 generic mana for an artifact, 2 generic mana and tap to put a multicolour creature into play. I noticed the deck is basically all multicolour so I think its very well worth using. The price is also dirt cheap.
I was seriously expecting a trogdor joke at the start, was surprised. I would dig a 100% colorless deck Just glad you're not a monster running a hermit druid deck
as an experienced Scion player, I would like to share some things I learned about this deck over time, and if someone learns something from this - all the yay. so, 1) Scion is ultra-reliable. you nearly always have the same combos available (molten + tyrant OTK, bladewing into utvara into karrthus etc, karrthus + standardize, skytr + molten ....) and you'll find yourself going through the motions a lot of the times. This is more of a problem than a positive to me, as with so many various dragons and mechanics - you can just usually one shot players or simply go for the same combination of dragons as usual and miss out on the other fun. other players will also learn you like a book, and probably dislike playing against it rather quickly. 2) gimmicky dragons don't usually cut it. stuff like Oros and Crosis and Intet are cute, but there's a few issues on why I eventually figured they can't work in the deck. first and top reason is really hidden in my 1) point; the deck is too damn reliable, and you often have far more powerful plays than using something like Intet's ability to pick some random card off the top of your deck. why care about destroying 2 target lands for 3 mana when you can usually just bash them right outta their seat? not to mention that the mana cost for running all these crazy toolkit creatures with their own costs starts to multiply quickly, with your Scion costing several times 2 to transform then costing 1, 2 or 3 for various activations of abilities, like Regenerate, Redirect (Clockwork Dragon or Quicksilver Dragon is a janky but interesting option for a dragon for sure, for another example of a cool toolkit dragon that costs mana), Haste, Buff and also the consideration that you usually don't wanna just attack once and tap every land just to perform some minor mischief while leaving yourself and Scion open. I mean, I always tend to leave at least enough mana to transform my Scion in case it gets targeted, and since we have Yosei and Keiga for dragons, everyone is on their toes about even touching Scion. Basically, I gave up on nearly all the 'fun' dragons like that except for Teneb, who fits the reanimator flavor and works great. 3) you'll be shuffling your deck a ton per each game, as a 5 color deck tutors lands a lot, then tutors dragons a lot (and mind you, after a while you'll usually just tutor the same lineup involving Utvara, Molten, Bladewing, Karrthus...), then you also probably use some good tutors along with all that. this is a minor inconvenience, but yeah it deserves mentioning. 4) duo to the explosive nature of the deck of being able to oneshot anyone at nearly any time with your commander, people will be eyeing you up a lot during games. If you run stuff like infect dragon or infinite attack phase or turn combos (yes, dragons do those rather easily too) you'll be the main scumbag and the man to kill off first in games.
I'll stop right here although I have a lot more to say simply because this wall of text needs to stop at some point. :P so yeah, I personally love the deck, was a bit disappointed that it usually revolves around a few best dragons instead of all of them, but hey, that's how Magic goes. if you have any questions about the deck, I'm happy to try and answer. pardon the rambling!
+breach Hey fellow Scion players. Let me see if there's anything to add:
Old Silumgar's (and Dragonlord Ojutai's) hexproof is a great asset to protecting Scion, because as long as you have 2 mana open, spot removal spells are blanked.
Also the legendary Kamigawa dragons are just nasty with Blade of Selves.
Another utility dragon I like is Tyrant's Familiar, it being essentially tutorable spot removal for annoying blockers. Also you'll have a Lieutenant Commander which sounds cool.
You probably know them, Prof, but I'd still like to mention some combos I run in my deck: Having both Savage Ventmaw and Hellkite Charger out gives you extra combat phases for 1 mana each, Moltensteel Dragon cheekily pumps your commander big enough to one-hit-kill with a second transformation into Atarka the Game Ender (or Skittles I guess), and setting up for a Living Death by dumping a ton of dragons into your yard with Scion is sweet.
The best dragon you didn't mention, however, is Dragonlord Kolaghan. The last ability reads like it's useless in commander, but a tutorable haste enabler for all your dragons is i-n-s-a-n-e. Reanimate Bladewing and with it Kolaghan and swing for 10 with haste, that's neat. Or Living Death everything and swing for a trillion double strike haste, that's neater. Turn Scion into Kolaghan at any time and give anything else you have haste, it's just ridiculously strong in EDH. Also: Temur Ascendancy. Not just a haste enabler, but it draws you cards when you get dragons, be they cast, reanimated or even tokens from Utvara Hellkite.
Finally, Dragon Mage deserves a mention in the toolbox that is Scion. Wheel of fortune at the press of a button is no joke, especially in a deck with this much reanimation. Also thanks for mentioning Bower Passage; I didn't know that one but it's wonderfully efficient. Yet no mention of Sarkhan's Triumph aka Draconic Tutor?
I think you've been misreading Scion (as many players have), Scion does not retain the ability to transform when he transforms. So you can't for example "Moltensteel Dragon pump into a Atarka transformation."
Dragonlord Kolaghan is also incredibly redundant with Karrthus if you're only using him for Fervor and in most cases Karrthhus is more worth his slot. Less than .01% of commander decks use one of the cards you can have more than 1 of, but quite a few more include a dragon or 2.
Scion can work with Moltensteel into Skittles (or Atarka) through some stack manipulation.
You need to put Scion's transform trigger onto the stack twice. Then with the first resolution, grab Moltensteel and pump it to 10 power (or whatever you need). Once that has resolved let the second Scion transformation resolve to grab Skittles or Atarka. Then attack for lethal.
However, it is true that after one transformation has resolved he can't be transformed until the next turn.
All of that sounds perfectly legal, but it also sounds like MTGO shenanigans and not something you just do in "kitchen table" Magic.
People in my LGS casual EDH explained the combo TO me and was wondering why I didn't have Molten since I had skittles. I now do xD
Man looking back all those years ago, it was this very video that inspired me to take the challenge of make a 5 color dragon deck and to this day, it is still and will forever be not only my best deck but my favorite deck of all time.
Just an FYI, the Shadows Over Innistrad Booster Box game will be posted this Saturday.
no shivan dragon for flavor?
Mea- den wild born budget? Human tribal?
+Tolarian Community College I've been building a Scion deck for the past few months now, this video was really helpful.
+Tolarian Community College Ok prof, here's an idea for you. I really enjoyed the idea you did with the Kaseto deck, so I had an idea. Why don't you do a little 'commander for beginners' mini series of sorts, taking a look at the many precon commander decks, and then giving viable upgrade tech for them to help people who might be new to the game to have an idea on how to start with a commander deck, and then have ideas on how to upgrade it from there. It'd be interesting to see your takes on these precon decks. maybe even take a single of the decks, and show how to upgrade it for each of it's possible commander options to show how two people starting with the same deck might end up with completely different decks. just an idea for ya.
+darklotuz I got over 150 bucks in value in my box so that's actually not hard to imagine. Great value set, this is.
The scary thing about this build is how many of these cards are part of Draconic Domination. Glad I picked it up when it was still $40 USD.
I'm happy for you and I also hate you
True! Super regretting that I didn't get it back then
Scion was my first edh build. This deck is a lot of fun. Savage Ventmaw and Hellkite Charger (or Scion mimicking either) is nuts. Feldon of the Third Path is a favorite in this deck too.
Okay, Professor (or Brian), I already loved you as a UA-camr, but this is the first time I've checked a commander video description. You link every commander video you have ever made, as well as the entire deck list in correct alphabetical order for the said video, as well as giving an amazing video to boot. EVERYONE LIKE HIS VIDEOS AND SUBSCRIBE, FOR THIS MAN IS AWESOME!
Hi Profesor! You will need an update with the new Dragons from Commander 2017. It will be great to see that ^^
Blade of Selves + Keiga might be the best way to piss off an entire table that I've ever seen. I love it.
Kestral287 purely evil
@JimmyJames3000 I know your comment was 5 months ago, but that concern never comes into play. Keiga is a legendary creature, so when the tokens come into play the legendary rule triggers and you have to choose which of those creatures to keep. Obviously you keep the non-token one and let all the others die as a state-based action. Since those tokens died (tokens do hit the graveyard, but they don't stay there), their LTB effect triggers.
This works for every Kamigawa dragon legend, including Kukusho which gets very mean very fast.
I've been hoping for you to do a Scion guide. I have loved mine since I brewed it up. As with anything, I agree with a lot of your choices, and disagree with a few. I feel you did the deck justice. An interaction I'd love to point out with Hellkite Charger, Scion, and Savage Ventmaw. Having any of these two on field allows for a combo that allows extra combats for a single mana, a devastating and often game ending combo in the late game. Paired with mana doubling cards such as Mirari's Wake or Mana Flare and using the particularly useful wording on Savage Ventmaw's ability, the game will almost always be coming to a grand conclusion.
My cousin was actually just building this deck this will help so very much
4am when i saw this video and i nearly had a heart attack. I've had a Scion dragon tribal deck for close to 2 years now, and it is by far my favorite. Honestly, outside of a few cosmetic differences, this is fairly close to my list, which was very reassuring to me that i'm on the right track with it.
Great video! I actually already have a Scion Deck, but this video has given me some new ideas about it that I think I'll keep in mind for future modifications. The thing that surprised me most in this video was no mention of Ojutai, Soul of Winter. If your opponents keep removing your dragons and keep you on the defensive, Ojutai is a great way to buy yourself some time to get your forces back up. Maybe I just run it because my best friend has a hydra tribal deck that is both chock-full of flying creature removal and very weak to continuously tapping down his biggest creatures.
you will probably never read this but, I have been looking for a fun budgetish commander deck. You hit the nail on the head with reanimation 5 color voltron dragon tribal combining all of my favorite casual things that I sadly can not do in modern but look forward to doing in commander. Thank you so much, prof.
Recommendations for next video. I would love to see a guide on Marchesa, the Black Rose as I'm currently building a deck with her. Also, I recently found your channel and am really loving all your content! I really appreciate your dedication to serving the community, and the mix of hilarity and intellect that is the tone of your videos.
Thank You SO MUCH!!! I been really trying to figure out how to do a EDH deck with Scion but my fear was there's so many dragons with very high mama costs that I thought the deck would never fire.
You forgot to mention the easiest way to win the game on turn 5 with one acceleration. Turn 4 put out Scion. Turn 5 use his ability twice, (yes you can activate his ability when one ability is already on the stack. Use the first to resolve ability to turn into moltensteel dragon, then before the next ability resolves you pump up using health for phyrexian mana, or just red mana if it's available. You want to pump 6 times to give your creature +6+0. Then use the 2nd ability to turn into Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon and attack for 10 infect damage, killing the opponent if you go through. Note: this can all be done after the opponent doesn't block right before damage is dealt.
Kinda new to edh, but wouldn't making the second scion ability a copy Skithiryx loose the +1 it gets from molensteele? I thought all power and toughness is changed to the copy.... ?
Actually, I think I found the ruling confirming your strategy.
The copiable values of an object are its name, mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and loyalty. These values are usually copied exactly as printed. However, copy effects do respect changes to those values resulting from other copy effects, face-down status, and some effects that set a creature's power or toughness.
Looks like it works.
Matt Tschida Also could work with Commander damage, use Scion for Moltensteel then Atarka. Cool thing is you only have to pump 5 times.
Or dragon tyrant for only 3 pumps
Solid analysis Prof! I'd just like to add that Dragons love speed and gas. To this end, Temur Ascendancy synergises with our high power creatures, giving us both. Same reason we like Sarkhan Unbroken.
This is a treasure for me to find.
My brother got into magic last month. Instead of completing we R pooling resources. He got new I went with a slightly older lot online. 5k cards mostly Commons and uncommons.
However it came with a good chunk of the working components for a dragon deck and snakes deck. Ordered rainbow last night. Found this vid today.
With newer dragon cards at my disposal. tho im filling out with a ramping planes Walker and extra enter the battlefield damage. Then using sirens ruses to be an asshat and deal damage or generate more dragons without actual combat.
I was actually just staring at most of these dragons recently and wanted to make Ur the commander. Thanks for the ideas, prof.
Hey Professor, I have a Scion EDH myself with some extra variety. Something to consider is having a Reito Lantern in to put a Dragon you tutored for earlier back into your library. Especially since Scion can tutor at instant speed, in response to a targeted removal finding a hexproof dragon. And just a small note, when you mentioned Tainted Strike, you said it gives all your creatures infect. It's a great instant speed combat trick, but it is only one creature. There is a green sorcery that gives all of your creatures a buff and infect, the name just escapes me at the moment.
Anyway, I love the deck tech support videos you've been making. It's opened my eyes to keep a look out for various secret tech that nobody is expecting. If I could add one more thing, would be to mention when there are multiple named cards with the same or similar mechanics as substitutions or additions. Like Dense Canopy that does the same as Bowery Passage, so if you have both in the 99 you effectively double your chances of the effect hitting the board. Or if people played in the Kamigawa block but not Innistrad, they might have a variant already without having to buy another.
Thanks again and keep up the great work.
+pyrezombiezero Ooh, Reito Lantern. Nifty. I may see if I can slide it into my Scion deck.
I love this, its pretty amazing and I agree with a lot of this too, i have a scion deck and its pretty consistent. The only thing I can say is that I feel this deck would be very vulnerable to control decks and even faster agro decks.
Most of the dragons are perfect; Atarka, Silumgar, Bladewing are must haves, but utility is very necessary in this deck, especially a deck with such high mana costs so the dragons you do put in have to have high effects or do something worth tutoring. A dragon i doubted from the beginning but learned that is irreplaceable is Tyrant's Familiar, with its haste and removal and huge body, it is very efficient. Dragonlord Dromoka is perfect for one of your weaknesses (control) and can win you the game by preventing an untimely Aetherspouts, authorize, or cyclonic rift. Valkas can win you games with a crazy Living Death or even a Bladewing combo.
The ramp is good but i also think others are needed like Bloom Tender, Somberwald Sage, Shaman of Forgotten Ways, and of course, Oracle. Yah they die to doom blade but they provide so much advantage, they ramp you two or three or even 5 turns ahead. When the ball gets rolling, commander damage and protection is almost inevitable.
Needs more removal too, not for creatures as much, but more for enchantments and artifacts which can ruin your day. But you will also almost always need spot removal. Somethings are too troublesome to let live and will cost you the game with some surprise combo.
and another thing i found so useful in this deck is filtering. So important. Dack Fayden, Monastery Siege (which can also be protection), Dragon Wizard and shockingly, Magus of the Bazaar. Let you dig for things you need, get dragons out of your hand that you can't play yet, and also fueling your graveyard for shenanigans with Bladewing, Living Death, Feldon, etc.
Would love to see you tackle; the Reaper King (5-colour scarecrows just seems like a fairly unique deck), Grand Arbiter Augustin IV (loving the look of this guy but not sure how to use him effectively), and finally Ghave, Guru Of Spores, (I built an interesting saprolings/infect deck for less than $40 based on this guy; I'm wondering how competitive and different it is from your suggestions).
+TornadoCreator Grand Arbiter is basically Satan on a floaty throne :D
Reaper king would be a good commander for a shapeshifter tribal
So excited to see this! Scion was my first EDH deck! The best cards imo are Dragon Tyrant, Xenagos god of revels, and patriarch's bidding
+Kevin Scott I ran all 5 of the Invasion cycle dragons and the 5 time spiral dragons, most of them aren't good. But you get a 6 mana 6/6 with flying and they are awesome dragons because of the Lore.
Thanks Professor for putting out this video. I know I am watching this in 2021 but I am building my first tri-colored deck and it happens to be a dragon tribal deck with Karrthus as my Commander (Jund Dragons). But it was good to see that I got a lot of the cards you mentioned, and I am feeling really good about how my deck will turn out.
Here are some cards I put into my Karrthus dragon tribal deck that put in a lot of work and would fit into this very well;
Aggravated Assault - if you have Savage Ventmaw on the field, it combos for both infinite mana and infinite combat phases as long as you keep him alive, insane value!
Wild Pair and Lurking Predators - constantly fishing out dragons from your library and slamming them down on the battlefield for free feels real good I gotta tell you
Deadbridge Chant - insanely good graveyard recursion, especially since you're actively dropping dragons in your graveyard from the Ur-Dragon's ability
Mana Echoes - getting a couple mana back for every dragon cast is a real boon and will enable you to do a lot more each turn
+SeraphimKnight I play with Karrthus, and World at War normally means "you die next turn, and on the following turn you'll die as well if you don't pull a nasty trick"
another great video professor, I personally don't even play commander but still watch these videos because they're interesting and well put-together
when you asked for recommendations last week i mentioned Gisela so i feel like i got a mini shout out :). keep up the great work prof, and the much needed critical analysis.
Very timely.
I was just thinking about building this because I lost to it so many times in college.
I was actually trying to make this deck but had no idea how. Thanks for the vid!
This is one of my favorite commander decks in my collection and I must say, Maelstrom Nexus is an absolute house in this deck. Casting a 6-8 drop dragon and cascading off of it is redic. Also the temur sarkhan is actually really amazing for his plus 1 alone as this deck needs card draw to keep things moving. and a lil scion pro tip, Wheel of Sun and Moon. You enchant yourself making all of your scion activations reusable in future turns. ;) ;)
Toshiro is a really intresting commader that not a lot of people know of and he has a intresting board presence as a mono-black spell slinger. also he's a Samurai and you can have your friends "hire" you to take care of creatures that are a problem.
you can also double him as a coltron commander as a sub theme to the spell slinging.
Awesome ! Thanks professor, I've been looking for a good dragon EDH guide. Just put together a sliver deck for Commander based on your guide, loving it. Thanks so much for the help!
thx for the great video and for all the great content. I have built a nicol bolas edh deck and my favorite win cons are sark han the mad, scourge of val, and dragon tempest because they read that the dragon deals the damage enabling the planor chaos dragons effects to trigger along with my cmdr.
I wish you would have mentioned that to everyone as that can be a combat phase unto itself.
Maybe this idea will only be for you and your brewing, but it is fun to take advantage of that small nuance and I bet others would appreciate that trick.
Thanks for the EDH deck tech! My kid runs a Scion EDH deck and some of the advice here will be of help to him!
Great video! Been playig Scion for two years now! Although you surely have thought of it, I think you forgot to mention the broken combo of Utavara Hellkite + Scourge of Valkas, which just scores you a ton of burn-damage. To even further add up to this combo you can up your dragon count with Dragon Broodmother and increase, double the ETB damage with Dragon Tempest.
Sneak attack is incredible in this deck, getting in suprise nicol bolas, or dumping your hand to win, and works very well with reanimation
Hey, Professor, I challenge you to make a colourless commander deck!
an eldrazi titan as commander 99 wastes.
YES!!!! Professor, you're the best, I've been waiting for your take on a scion of the ur-dragon deck, and it did not disappoint
First off great video I have a friend who loves dragons and will enjoy this video! The next Commander should be Kozilek, the Butcher of Truth, don't let the colorless factor detour, I have made a EDH deck with Kozilek and found this deck to be very capable in both multiplayer or one on one. I would love to hear you thoughts on it and anybody else's to.
Hey Prof, I run a Scion EDH deck and I feel there are some honorable mentions that weren't in the video.
All of these cards rely on choosing a creature type.
Descendants Path, Belbe's Portal, Dragon Arch, Cryptic Gateway - All let you put a creature out for free or a drastically reduced cost.
Steely Resolve is a good protection card with the caveat it will also give your opponents the benefit if they happen to have a dragon in play.
Thanks for the vids dude!
Yup going to be my next comander beck. I all ready have mass experience with the massive scaled beasts. The brutality they bring is indeed a threat to all at the table. Thank you for the ideas for that extra gasp of air my prey will try to gather. :)
Well, I had a min-maxed Scion deck, but retooled it for flavor reasons. Cut a bunch of great dragons including Hellkite Tyrant, Utvara Hellkite, Dragon Tyrant, Scourge of the Throne, Steel Hellkite, Maelstrom Archangel and others to fit *all* the three colour 'X, the Y' dragons there is, then changed out the objectively better mana rocks for Dragons of Tarkir monument mana rocks. Then squeezed in Ugin and Nicol Bolas.
Fun.
Amazing, just what I was looking for! I've been wanting to build a dragon EDH deck for ages, but as I'm a new player those five colours were hard to put into a deck and make it work. I already have tons of these cards, just because I love dragons. Whenever I finish this (with a little tweaking), let's see how all the guys will react to a girl beating them with a dragon deck ;D
If you happen to want an instant win combo through combat, consider a Sword of Feast and Famine or Savage ventmaw as illustrated through the video combo'd with Aggravated Assault. As far as Blade of Selves is concerned it has some really cool interactions. Scion becomes an exact copy of the dragon, so you get all the triggers and copies of the dragons.
There have been many games where I won strictly through Dragon Tempest and a mass reanimation spell. During your opponents end step activate Scion Multiple times (You have to put multiple abilities on the stack, once the first ability resolves you lose that ability for that turn) Then Patriarchs bidding, reanimate 8+ Dragons, Tempest Triggers, all the dragons enter at the same time so it sees 8x8 in damage easily 64 damage in increments of 8 easily ending the game
This is actually my commander, awesome video professor
Remember too, that not only do you get ETB effects with Blade of Selves on Legendary creatures, but you get LTB effects too. Kokusho, the Evening Star is a beast with Blade of Selves. 5 player game? Equip and attack. 3 Kokushos enter, and then immediately die. All opponents take 15 damage, you gain 60.
you can't hit LTB effects such as kokusho's with Blade of Selves. The tokens get exiled, and don't hit the graveyard. :P
João Arthur Macedo Schatzer it actually does work. The wording says they get exiled at end of combat. With a non legendary creature what you are expecting works out exactly as anticipated. But the legend rule forces you to immediately sacrifice all of those creatures choosing only one left standing. That means the tokens briefly go to the grave and "die" hence triggering each leave the battlefield trigger.
Billable understood. Legend rule
My English os rusty
I think Selvala, Explorer Returned is one of the coolest commanders around and the fact that she gives other players cards makes lots of people not want to use her. It seems that most people put her in the group hug category; however, I think there is much more to her. Personally, I run an aura heavy enchantress deck with her as the commander and think of her as another enchantress. When I'm playing someone that hasn't played against my deck before, they usually leave me alone until it is too late and I take over the game with all the synergies that the enchantress archetype provides. I would love to see your take on her Professor.
I run Belbes portal alongside Quicksilver amulet. It is a little more restricted I think since you have to choose the creature type you want to cast with it, but the 3 mana to put your creature onto the battlefield instead of four quite quickly pay for that it costs 5 to cast. Also, Kilnmouth dragon is quite nice aswell in my opinion with his amplify 3 and tap effect. Another fun thing is Thundermaw Hellkite, if you want to tap all fliers you opponent controls and have a clear strike that turn. Dragons are so much fun! :)
Hey Professor, I have a suggestion for videos like these.
When showing the cards one by one, can you also show any promo or alternate versions of that card?
For example, when showing Dromoka, the Eternal, I noticed a large amount of empty space on screen. It would've been pretty cool to show the Clash Pack version of the card.
We, as players, lose nothing from this. It helps you fill out empty space, it puts more magic cards on screen (always a plus), it exposes people to fabulous art, and it gives more options to people building decks (especially for those of us that like to bling out decks).
I hope you take this into consideration! Keep up the great work.
Some uncommon green ramp spells great for multicolor decks that run ABUR duals, shocks, and even the BFZ lands are Nature's Lore, Skyshroud Claim, Ranger's Path, and Hunting Wilds. The first 2 are like rampant growth and explosive vegetation, except they fetch any forest and put it into play (not tapped) for the same costs and number of lands, the last 2 are explosive vegetations that fetch forests tapped, though hunting wilds has a kicker that can be played to untap the forests and make them 3/3 creatures with haste. All 4 of the cards can be gotten for under $5 total.
I love this series, particularly because I'm considering making a commander deck for the first time and im not sure who I want as my commander! I've been thinking about animar, soul of elements a lot. So I'd love to see a tech on that.
+th3on3thatb3atu try cramming a bunch of morph creatures
it can be really fun
Finally, my deck!!!! I have a few differences that work better for me though and of course learned a few evasion cards, but it's to see my commander here!!! :)
I've a foil cauldron dance in my Rakdos, Lord of Riots deck. Putting a Blighsteel Colossus into play from your hand is gas.
I would like to correct your comment (or add to it) : You said "hardcasting a dragon muscle" when mentioning Moltensteel Dragon - but forgot to mention that he is 99% of the time the first Scion target if you want to kill a player fast. Perhaps i would say this is my favorite combo in this deck above all. Here's how:
Attack with Scion, opponent declares no blocks
Activate Scion, hold priority
Respond to Scion's ability by activating it again (you now have two Scion activations on the stack).
Resolve the second activation, placing Moltensteel Dragon in the graveyard and turning Scion into a copy of Moltensteel Dragon.
With the first Scion activation still on the stack, activate Scion's new ability six times.
Resolve those six activations one at a time, giving Scion +6/+0 until end of turn.
Resolve the first Scion activation, placing Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon into the graveyard and turning Scion into a copy of Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon.
Hit defending player for 10 damage, giving them 10 poison counters and killing them.
You can also do the same with Dragon Tyrant and double strike for lethal commander damage, if you have Skithiryx in your hand and vice versa.
You can do this the turn after scion comes into play, since you have 4 mana available to use them for the two scion abilities. Plus if you played a mana on that turn, it gives you 2 extra mana for protecting your scion with either Bowyer's Passage, Apostate's blessing, Swiftfoot boots, Champion's helm etc.
I would say protecting your Commander is one of the most important things in this deck, since he is the main engine of the deck.
Sorry for being annoying :)
Kinda new to edh, but wouldn't making the second scion ability a copy Skithiryx loose the +1's it gets from molensteele? I thought all power and toughness is changed to the copy.... ? Moletensteel says "Moltensteele gets +1 until end of turn"
Actually, I think I found the ruling confirming your strategy.
The copiable values of an object are its name, mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and loyalty. These values are usually copied exactly as printed. However, copy effects do respect changes to those values resulting from other copy effects, face-down status, and some effects that set a creature's power or toughness.
Looks like it works.
There is also the Worldgorger, buried alive/entomb +dance of the dead/animate dead combo where you can keep phasing your board state out until you've used it as many times as you want. This is ideal for mana rocks that add 1 mana of any color and come into play untapped as this will give you infinite every color of mana. If you are lucky enough to have omniscience and grasp the infinite in your hand with this, you should be winning the game. [I recommend buried alive unless you already have another monster in the grave when you use dance of the dead on Worldgorger.]
There is the Scion 3 card infinite with Niv Mizzet Firemind and/or Niv Mizzet Dracogenius. Having both of those dragons will let you do damage up to the amount of cards in your deck however if you end your turn and then also cast "clear the mind" you will be able to fire off whatever you discard as another set of damage. This is easier to pull off with Scion as he makes it so you only have to have reanimated/hard casted 1 of those 2 dragons and you don't need "Clear the Mind" in your hand as you will be going through your entire deck with this combo. This not only makes the Worldgorger combo a good buddy, but will give you an alternate win use out of buried alive+animate dead if Worldgorger was shut down. [This combo really only costs you 4 mana assuming you have Scion out [which is indeed the hard part] using both entomb and and reanimate/dance of the dead/animate dead] This also goes with the card that says if you were to draw the last card of your deck, you win. If you aren't ready for that sort of commitment you could also
Both of these combos benefit from Demonic Tutor, and Dark Ritual and also makes Mana Crypt and Mana Vault useful as there is colorless mana in those costs and can simplify the early game as opposed to branching out for all 5 colors for anything except on other mana rocks. In the same vein, Chromatic Orrery, Mana Crypt and Mana Vault, sol ring, together can offer superior mana options when comboed out. [Orrery allows all mana to be spent as mana of any color but CMC only requires raw numbers.] Also combos with Worldgorger!
Aside from these combos. There is a Blue card called "Show and Tell" which will let you skip the ramping process on 1 dragon in your hand at the cost of giving opponents abilities to play things. The same can be said about "Oath of Druids". And there is Ramos, the Dragon Engine whom makes it easier to ramp up into your dragons and has only a colorless cost and is a dragon. [Really perfect if you can play him before playing Scion.] Can combo with a door to nothingness but... well that would be slowing down because it comes into play tapped. [Can fix with voltaic key or manifold key which will also work on your Orrery, Crypt, Vault or other mana rocks but sorta dead draws otherwise.]
i just made a scion deck yesterday and finally got a chance to test it out a few mins ago :) i was able to cast scion on turn 6 and even kept all 5 color cards and discarded 1 when someone played that card that makes you pick one of each color ;) but by the time i got him out i was dead lol, everyone was attacking me
I've actually noticed that some people don't like to see Scion as a General, possibly because of Kokusho and friends, but interestingly even though I run both him and Nico Bolas (creature) in mine those same people often respect it because of the Favor theme: Dragon tribal, Legendary Dragon Cycle. I first put it together before Tarkir so I don't have the most recent cycles added, but I have the Original Elder Dragons (4/5 signed by artist, Ed. Beard Jr. is awesome!), the Primordials, the Planar Chaos reflections, and the Kamigawa cycle of the day.
I have fun playing it, though my friends sometimes got sick of seeing it.
Professor, when are you going to do another EDH / Commander Guide? I enjoy watching these videos the most and I'm always curious to know what people are building and playing.
this video maybe a little old but i have been wanting to build a dragon commander deck for five colors. thanks for the video man,it helped me with its wonderful tips :)
am i crazy or does tainted strike just give one creature infect?
I love your videos professor! Keep up the good work!!!
Hellkite Charger and Savage Ventmaw is a killer combo. Attack with both and stack the triggers, so Ventmaw's resolves first, add 3 green and 3 red, then spend that mana plus 1 land, and Bam! Extra combats galore!
yore-tiller nephilim and kaalia of the vast are sick in Scion decks. Yore-tiller gets dragons from GY and Kaalia gets dragons from hand. Nephilim is much cheaper, but lacks evasion. If you play the recursion route, yore-tiller nephilim is insane.
An EDH deck that I really want to build now! I've been looking for a decent deck to build to get started in EDH. I started playing magic with Dragons of Tarkir, and played with a dragons based deck until this rotation with Shadows and haven't moved from standard just yet.
I would like to see a Nissa, Vastwood seer edh deck tech because the power of mono green needs to be shared. I would provide a decklist if needed. Great vids
to help hard cast i'd throw in a Urza's Incubator, and Dragon lord's Servant.
Thundermaw hellkite - cheap way to tap all everyone but yours creatures that can fly
Avaricious Dragon and Knollspine Dragon - MUST HAVES - both allow card draw and are creatures
Crucible of fire - Enchantment that gives all your dragons 3/3 for 4 mana
Kilnmouth dragon - Get him out early with 4 dragon cards in your hand and he is a 17/17 for 7 mana that can tap to destroy.
Ryusei the falling star - wipe out every creature not flying that under 5 toughness - this dragon is a maybe
Great video as usual Professor! I would love to see a Commander deckbuilding Guide for Basandra, Battle Seraph.
Some dragons you may want to consider are the acid-spewer dragon, to give Scion deathtouch at instant speed, and Belltoll dragon for instant speed hexproof to your Scion. Another dragon that is just fantastic in this deck is Dragonlord Kolaghan, who gives all of your creatures haste.
A great card to try in this deck is fires of invention. It helps to not only get dragons out a bit quicker but also leaves mana open for activating scions ability. Its not a super huge advantage but pretty fun to slam down 2 dragons for free and still have lots of mana for scions ability
Torrent of Souls goes great in a Scion deck. You can dump Bladewing into your graveyard and target him with Torrent of Souls to get two dragons, with haste out onto the battlefield. If you have enough mana (9 total) you can transform Scion into Utrava and revive Utvara+Bladewing to get two out Utvaras on the battlefield giving you 6 more dragons!
Yay, more commander and poetry! You don't post enough poetry on your channel.
This looks like an amazing fun and aggro deck. Really want to build this now.
For another EDH deck tech, I would LOVE to see your thoughts on a Horde of Notions deck.
"Relentlessy efficient" is exactly the term I have been using for quite a while... ^^
But honestly, Gisela and Gratuitous Violence look a bit like win-more. I would rather turn to Sheoldred, Whispering One first. If she isn't handled immediately, she will just start vomitting dragons onto the board from your graveyard.
Anyway, if you want to run non-Dragon creatures, make sure to also play Xenograft and Conspiracy (naming "Dragon"). That way Scion can tutor them up as well ;) .
Those two enchantments are good in general (pun intended) in five-color decks with tutor abilities - like General Tazri or Sliver Overlord - or tribal-bound triggers like Reaper King.
Thanks for the tip with that green "flyers can't block"-enchantment however, had never heard of it! ;)
I didn't hear him say anything about the end cost,any idea what it is?
my friend runs a scion edh. not the same as this but it's still terrifying. this video made me weep in fear haha
Rat tribal with marrow gnawer as the commander would be a great video!
I would be interested in seeing how you would build Prossh, Skyraider of Kher EDH and whether or not you would run on the spot win combos.
Thundermaw Hellkite is also great in this deck because it knocks out flying blockers for a combat round. A tutorable combat trick with Scion and some graveyard recrusion.
Omnath, Locus of Mana.
great video, waiting for the SoI booster box game
This video is neat, but it doesn't delve as much into using Scion's ability as more than a road for dragons from your deck to your graveyard. There's a few things to know about it to get the most out of this commander:
1) Scion's ability drops at instant speed. That means you can use it any time you want, in response to spells and abilities, after blocks are declared, or even on your opponent's turn. That makes some really, really stupid stuff happen. For example: Quicksilver Dragon has an ability that allows you to redirect a single-target spell from itself to another target. So it can act as a counter to a removal spell by activating Scion in response to the spell, mimicking Quicksilver, and then using the redirect for a total cost of 2 (U) mana.
2) When Scion is a copy of another creature, it loses its copy ability. However, you CAN stack the copy ability as many times as you like so long as you don't let one go off. That can either let you fill your graveyard by spending spare mana at the end of your opponent's turn, OR do silly things like activate it twice after (no) blocks are declared, let one pop, turn into Moltensteel dragon, buff up +6 (Or as little as +1 if you only have double strike), then let the second one go off into Skittles, and now there's a surprise 10 infect damage coming in already unblocked. Or even if you're not going that route, Intet, Teneb, Numot, Balefire, etc. all activate their abilities when they deal damage, not when they attack, so when your untransformed Scion is past all blocks, you have tons of options on what sort of damage you want to do.
3) Again, since this is all instant speed (and doesn't even require a tap), you can defend against conditional removal as well. "Destroy target non-artifact creature?" Oh, suddenly my commander is a Steel Hellkite. "Destroy target (color or multicolor) creature?" Whoopsie doodle, looks like I'm suddenly (other color or pure red). Or, hey that spell's white. Scion has no protection, but Stormbreath Dragon is pro-white. Also I've manaramped to such absurdity I'll just become monstrous for 7 and spread some damage around and get some +1/+1 tokens in the meantime.
The point is, Scion is a silly, silly card that is unparalleled in utility, from what I've seen, among Commanders. And once you learn to play the spell stack he gets even more absurd.
Wow professor, that's one ruthless tribal deck to be sure, waaay over the power level of any of my decks!
I did have one question related to tribal decks. I've wanted for a while to make a skeleton tribal deck, but infect is a big no-no with my playgroup, so Skithiryx isn't really an option, and I'm not really a fan of skeleton ship. I'd be fine with running something outside the tribe, but I'm not sure where good synergy lies.
Bogardan Hellkite is a great addition to this deck
Thundermaw Hellkite is also a strong card that usually signals the loss of a player, as it lets you swing unopposed with your dragon army, though it likely falls into the Tier 3 variety as its usefulness is basically relegated to just that role. I'm also a personal fan of Dragon Mage, though it can backfire on you pretty easily in EDH but I'm sure I'd still run it because it's a fun card.
Since you did dragons, I'd love to see Angels. Personally, I would like to see Avacyn, Angel of Hope. I have an Avacyn EDH, and that deck is seriously nasty.
Also, I'm building a Zurgo Helmsmasher equipment deck and would love to see your version. If you do, don't forget the basically mandatory addition of Worldslayer
id love to see a video on your views for a kemba white-commander deck, Kaalia of the vast commander deck, and an ulamog colorless commander deck for sure!
Cauldron dance is in my cube! It's freaking awesome
Hey professor. Great content as always. And Sheoldred, whispering one for a commander would be interesting :)
Don't know if anyone pointed this out yet, but tainted strike is just "Target Creature" not all creatures. If you want all creatures to get infect, try Triumph of the Hordes
yes!! i was hoping you would make this video some day!!
Two things. 1) Could you put these on tapped out rather then just in the description, and 2) This is a great list, and I now want to make this deck. But a deck I was thinking that you should make for your next commander is Rakdos, Lords or Riots.
An Employee at my LGS built a shapeshifter/changeling tribal EDH deck, and I would love to see you tackle it.
Swap in psychic spiral to mill out your opponents and/or refill the library with dragons. A good Havengul Lich to reanimate fallen dragons without spiral, as well as give lich a whole new ability.
this is great! it gives me in deep review of most scion player tend to use. though why didn't add protection like Dragonlord Ojutai? most people will try to kill scion and in this video scion's protection is by far only by transfrorming into silumgar.
IMO, there should be a combo piece between bladewing and those etb dragons like ashnod's altar and nim deathmantle. (in case most player tend to get bored and need a next game start)
but still this review sounds fun! thanks professor!
Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper; Rakdos, Lord of Riots; or Niv Mizzet, Firemind. Those would be my picks professor!
Would love to see a Zedruu the Greathearted EDH deck. Good stuff love the content.
Have you considered doing one of these videos for Kaalia of the Vast or Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge? I understand they are fairly straightforward generals but you seem to like putting an interesting spin on decks so I would love to see what you come up with!
Another card that would be great for this deck. Dragons Arch. 5 generic mana for an artifact, 2 generic mana and tap to put a multicolour creature into play. I noticed the deck is basically all multicolour so I think its very well worth using. The price is also dirt cheap.
This is perfect for the recent price drop from the commander deck
I was seriously expecting a trogdor joke at the start, was surprised.
I would dig a 100% colorless deck
Just glad you're not a monster running a hermit druid deck