Your videos are very easy to understand and straightforward. I'm going with Rel. It has not been an easy decision but you've helped me out a great deal. Thank you for all your hard work.
Your Mercedes/BMW analogy *resonated* with me. (I have owned both and yes, NOTHING drives like a BMW. The feel of the steering!) Great way to describe the differences in these types of subs. Different "feels"/"Sounds" for two different types of people and what they need. Great job.
Thanks for this video and for breaking down the differences this way. I don’t have all the scientific knowledge on speakers, etc but just a guy who wants to build a great sounding setup. It really helped me get a better understanding on the differences between these brands and also what to look for in a subwoofer in general. I’m definitely subscribing to this channel and making it one of my go to sources for reviews and info!
Thanks so much for this vid. I've been watching several sub vid last few months and have been completely stuck. I've felt like REL was the right speaker but no one's managed to accurately articulate exactly how the two differ so I kept researching other models as well. You've helped to clear it all up in one short vid. I have very revealing system very textured detailed silky smooth setup and I didn't want a sub that would compromise any of that. It's amazing the details I get and now I know REL will compliment my components. Again thanks so much you've saved me a few more months of anxiety and possibly wrong decision. Great analogies very creative and relatable.
I'm happy it was helpful, I spent about 3 months just thinking about this question while wondering how to make this video. I wanted it to be simple to understand and easily relateable :)
Love your reviews. You keep it all the way 100 and you're great with the analogies. Thank you for what you do and keep up the good work. Also love the tactful use of curse words !!!
I appreciate the hell out of this comment, honestly sometimes when I get through a whole video and realize I didn't swear a single time I'm kind of bummed lol.
I spent hours integrating my SVS PB-1000 into my system. It can blend well into a system provided you're good at placement and have a good ear for the gain and phase adjustment.
That's awesome! I was able to integrate my PC-2000 fairly well also when I had that but a lot of this comes down to taste and "how much" integration you want with your bass. For your system its probably perfect for your taste. Not everyone likes maximum integration and some people prefer no integration at all. Personally I don't like the comfort of a Mercedes S560, i find it too comfortable, too cush, just not for me, likewise a BMW M3 is too uncomfortable, but my Audi S7, ah for me, fucking perfection! But the S560 owner would say my S7 is so stiff so it's really "what works for you" that everyone should be trying to get, and not what product is good/bad/etc...
This is the 3rd or 4th video of yours ive watched after randomly coming across your review on the jamo c19 because i saw it on sale for $150. But I have to say your candid honesty and critical thinking/open mindedness is such a breath of fresh air in this cesspool that is youtube. And honestly i normally wouldve thought i was more of the type of guys that wanted to see all the raw data and specs graphs etc because "why would i want to watch a video of some dude just talking ?" But i think your genuineness speaks volumes compared to any numbers ever could.. i dont typically comment on stuff but im just impressed with the authenticity
Hey chem, thank you for the kind words. I appreciate your candid feedback. I just try and keep it real. My real job pays the bills so the YT channel is just for fun :)
Love your approach. It speaks to my perspective. I’m experiential by nature, but also ADHD and OCD. Ultimately, I seek the experience. I love the car metaphor. I’ve driven modern phenomenons (2015 Porsche Cayman S) and other tuned vehicles with amazing capabilities. However, I get greater joy from driving my 1970 Volvo 1800E (with suspension upgrades). My system is music centric. Naim XS3 amp, Rega P6 with Ania MC cartridge trurntable, Lounge Copla MC preamp, Zu Druid IV-13 (Druid V update) speakers. In my quest to fill the bottom end, I’m looking at REL 9/7/5 vs SVS 3000. Going REL to start.
This video was absolutely perfect, best explanation, simple and easy to understand. I just bought an SVS 1000 SB for my F501's a couple of months ago but as I analyzed movies and music the more I used it, the more I realize I have yet to set up a cut off I like or figure out room acoustics to a point of truly enjoying my new system. Could also be the cheap Yahama rxv 679 lol. A month later I bought the new Elac UBR62 Uni-Fi Reference with the Iotavx stack for my pc and holy shit wow!!! What a match those are with the sub. The SVS I have is very well placed for both the home theater AND pc somehow (10 minute crawl ftw) and does integrate to the point where it feels like it's just coming out of the speakers for my PC, I wish I could get the same results with the 501's but it's more than likely my horrible room acoustics have something to do with that. After watching this video though I think I really want to try the Rythmik L12, but I'm going to work on getting a better avr or processor/amp combo and fix that left corner bass problem this room has.
Damn good explanation and it’s very helpful to give people out there perspectives when choosing subs . I have 3 REL subs and I really appreciate the integration it gives to my watching experiences. Great job .. I am now a subscriber to your channel . Cheers
Your explanation about preferences is spot on! Just a different taste! I've posted a vid on youtube with a Rel T9i. Sold him, nut now thinking of adding a sub again.
I was driving myself nuts what to buy. Review after review I watchedand read. I have always been a precise kind of guy. By definition the Rel seemed to be my choice, you and Spare Change swayed me, Rel was my choice. Adorama had the Rel HT 1508 Predators at $999.00 I stretched my wallet and bought 2. Should I not be happy I can return them for free. To get total slam and accuracy where they disappear is above my budget. I think I chose wisely after all the reading. I just installed them so time will tell... I have been in the audio game since the 70's and we both know hype isn't everything. I always enjoy what I buy or just return it. Thanks for the honest thoughts. Btw I owned 1969-73 Mustang Mach 1s... :-) 😀
Amazingly helpful reviews and responses to my tedious questions. I ended up going with dual SVS SB-3000. Very difficult decision, as REL and Rythmik are absolutely amazing. My living room system is 5.2, and dominated by kids movies. If it were a music only 2.1, I would have likely gone REL or Rythmik. That, and a seller made me a great offer on the mint pair. I'm happy with the upgrade (which I find substantially better sounding than my older gen SVS, and highly tuneable through the app). I think any option would have worked well.
Some very good analogies in there,nice explanation video. Personally I went for an SVS sb4000 and couldn't be happier,perfect sub for me. Subscribed now and look forward to your future videos
Hey thank's John! The SB4000 is a beast! I came very close to buying one but after having 3 SVS subs I thought I should give other brands some attention lol. That app is seriously awesome! I do wish there was an option to simplify it though kind of like turn off the features you don't want to adjust for example. It would keep an OCD punk like me from constantly messing around with settings :)
Thank you Pcham! I will cover this topic a little more in the upcoming REL T9X video coming this week, I've discovered the easiest way to break it down is really spectrum in which we have SQ subwoofers on one end and SPL subwoofers on another end. All subs fall somewhere on that spectrum. With that in mind I hope to be able to help everyone find the subwoofer that is correct for them :).
Fantastic video! I love my JL Audio subs. I loved the REL's too. You're right, I wanted a little bit more slam while still being articulate. Maybe in the coming years, I will be switching camps.
@@NemoPropaganda Oh don't worry, I'm done building my first system. Now I'm going to work on my 2nd system which will be mid tier vs budget-ish for my first one.
Me too bro, i’m in California so we get screwed pretty hard on square footage. Homes in my city are like $750k and 1800sqft 😭😭. Over 2000 is usually $1m.
Awesome, that's a great little guy, just don't expect earth shattering sub 30hz bass. It'll more give you overall fullness of sound, that's it's magic.
Congrats. For me, I compared the 2x L12 with 2x t5i. I liked the Rythmik a little better than the RELs. Also, downfiring subs in my house don't work very well.
@@NemoPropaganda Pretty well actually. I was trying to compare subwoofers not based on their woofer size but moreso on price. 8" would have been fine for this room, and the RELs sounded great (on their sides and not down firing) in my room.
Thank u for the breakdown & comparisons! I'm one of those "I want the sub to disappear" guys - I have a SVS & the gain is dialed in pretty low bcause all I wanted was a tad more bottom added to my stand mount speakers. Now I'm wondering if switching to a Rel or Rythmik would even be worthwhile given the low sub volume I like. Thoughts??🤔
Sooooo, I would say no! My reason for saying no is it sounds like you're happy with what you have and how it's setup. Also I have setup subs in a similar way in the past and I do feel that if you keep the gain really low you can integrate most subs well enough :).
@Thomas, the short answer is yes! I own the HT/1205 mated to a pair of Martin Logan Aerius i. I can tell you from experience that sonically, it "disappears." It's freaking awesome! Interestingly, Nemo's review of the HT/1205, along with a few exchanged messages, influenced my decision. This year I am updating several components in my system, and I'm going to upgrade to two Series S. I'm still deciding between the S/510 and the S/812. Go for it! Oh, I highly recommend dual subs. If it doesn't fit your budget, that's okay. After having the one HT/1205, and it's adequate, I see the value of having two.
@@caballerosuave Pourtant le Ht1205 est plus orienté home cinéma, à cause de son caisson qui n'est pas clos. Après, le S/812 ne joue pas dans la cour. Environ 3 fois le prix du Ht. Mais parait-il qu'il excelle en hifi.
Here on youtube and on the internet in general, you helped me the most with my decision of which brand I spend my money on for my first subwoofer. You seem authentic and honest - that's why I take your word and opinion. It's no fun to browse audio forums where they compare and argue upon spec sheets and make up some bs about other companies. My system will be soon completed and I'm confident that it will satisfy my needs and expectations.
hey thank you bro, that's pretty much my goal. On my own journey I found myself constantly obsessing over gear to the point I was fear locked and couldn't make a decision. It was starting to take the fun out of things so I made this channel to try and help people avoid that constant obsessive part of the hobby. If you're in the free discord please post some updates on how it all goes!
Great video! Well said about keeping this hobby fun! We should be thankful there are several great brands at different price points, meeting different needs! There's never been a better time to enjoy hi-fi and home theater!
Thanks for the honest opinion, my svs sb1000 sucks in 2 channel but my svs pb1000's are great in home theater. Now the hunt restarts for a "musical" 2 channel subwoofer and I was leaning to the Rel for just what you state... IT'S ALL MADNESS!!!
Hey Tim, I wouldn't say SVS sucks with music, it just really depends on your taste, I was able to get great results with the SB1000-Pro in a music system but they do have a lot of fine grain controls so it can certainly be challenging, some people love the fine grain controls for others it's too much as 1 wrong setting can mess up the whole presentation. REL takes the opposite approach and only gives you 3 things to adjust making setup much more foolproof. A lot of people love the REL approach and then some people want more fine grain control so one brand can never win over everyone but it sounds like you might be happier with something like a T7X or HT1205.
@Tim P, you can’t go wrong with the HT/1205 for double duty. If your budget allows take a look at the Serie S line. That’s what I’m upgrading to this summer.
I had to retire my old JBL S120P II sub. I thought that it was a great all around sub. Subtle when it needed to be and slammed when you wanted it to. The amp died, after almost 20 years, so I went hunting for a new one. A friend's Boston Acoustics 12" sub did NOTHING to fill in the void. I went to Magnolia and auditioned about 8 subs. REL and SVS were my finalists. I even thought about a Martin Logan but it was too subtle. I truly agree with this video.... It was truly a matter of what did I want most out of my sub, and this time, I wanted the sub to kick my ass, Mike Tyson style. I opted for the SVS. It felt closer to what my JBL wished it could do and did it. But, god, I loved that REL
martin logan is very under rated, the good ones has the punch of the svs and is incredibly musical like the rel. Gotta listen to them, they don’t receive a lot of recognition
Just stopping by to say your videos are the shit. Great job. Always listening while doing boring ass work on my computer and your take / comments are always on point. Keep up the great work man.
Very interesting. I am hesitating between the T9i, the SVS SB 3000 and the B&W DB4S. My main interest is musical content. So for you the Rel would be the best for this purpose ? Have you been able to compare it with the DB4S ? Thanks !
@@alantranouez2815 I think all the subs I mentioned are great for music, it just depends what you're looking for. I have not heard the DB4S as it's a little too expensive imo. I would rather have the REL T9i or SB3000 for that price and put the extra money in my pocket. The SB3000 is as much bass as you can get from that size and price point and it's a damn tight/quick subwoofer too. SVS has a generous in home trial as does REL, I'd flip a coin and order from one of them and see how you like it :). Also how big is your room? If it's big the SB3000 has nearly triple the power of the T9i so that's important to keep in mind. If your room is small to medium the T9i should be good and the SB3000 might be overkill and so on... There are a million reasons that make this ultra user specific.
I've got both. SVS SB3000 connected to the LFE channel. A REL T7X connected to the center channel. They work really well together. The REL is a recent addition and it made a noticeable difference.
@@camilofajardo1453 the Svs is connected to the LFE channel. The REL is wired to the center speaker. Svs moves more air. I noticed more slam with anything out of the center speaker.
Dude I am so glad you made this video. I know this is old, but I just pulled the trigger on a FV18 Rythmik to keep up with my 1977 Klipsch La Scalas in a dual purpose HT 2.1/music setup. And what you said about them is freaking exactly what I was hoping. Something that blends beautifully, that fills in that sub 60hz zone effortlessly, and is everywhere, but nowhere at the same time. I was obviously already excited, but now it is going to be torture until this subwoofer comes in.
@@NemoPropaganda Awesome! Will do. Not an ideal sound space I have, but the next house will have a dedicated HT/listening room where I can do more sound treatment and such. I needed this big boy to attempt to fill this living room which opens into the kitchen and a hallway. Again not ideal, but I am sure this baby will fill it nicely if I can place it in a solid spot for my primary listening position.
Finally a reviewer who actually talks about the why more than the what, balance and taste, more than an outright winner, thank you, you are the most intelligent and informative reviewer of audio equipment I have found, keep it up... and manufacturers... take note of this guy!
Wow, those are a lot of kind words, thank you Paul, I just got asked this question so much I knew there had to be some better way of explaining it aside from methodically asking the person what they listen to, or what the rest of their system is, etc... Happy you enjoyed the vid!
I just got a SB-2000 pro to go with my Heresy IV's. Going with the sealed design seemed like a good middle ground. They can get in your face for home theatre and music with slamming bass while still being plenty articulate for my taste. I also looked at the REL HT line, and I expect I would have been happy either way.
Hey Greg, that's a fair statement for sure. I think 90% of people will be happy either way. These difference are generally only going to show up when doing a direct comparison but at the end of the day I truly believe this hobby is more like food and personal taste is the biggest factor.
GREAT GREAT breakdown on subs - took me years to acquire this conclusion ….And then there re Arendal subs- the best of both worlds- aLMOST REL like articulation and detail, AND GREAT slam and authority and dig deep but no boom !! Great construction and very price competitive and BEAUTIFUL finish. Arendal will please any discerning subwoofer buyer
So I keep hearing, I reached out to them for a sample recently, If I don't hear back soon I might just buy the damn thing but I will be a bit salty :).
I looked at the but way I over my budget for the model I wanted AND I wanted 2... I bought 2 Rel HT 1508s that were on sale for $999 with free returns. Granted the Arendal looks great! Enjoy!
@@whocares0503 I have the Arendal 1723 and 1961 here, so far I can say I like the sound of the HT range over the 1961 range so I think you made a good decision. I'm playing with the 1723 right now though, we'll see if it's larger 13.8" driver can impress or not...
@@marcusmcmurray77 well this is kind of like asking me why I chose to buy an Audi instead of a BMW, it's really personal taste mostly but for me it has the right balance of attributes and is easy to set up. That's really what it comes down to. It's never sounded bad no matter what speakers I pair it with. I keep the frequency at 9 oclock, the gain too, and the phase at 180, literally blends with everything and really easily.
I've never commented on any video ever, but you explanation, analysis, & honesty made start right now! Love the explanation & honesty. I'm between the two types & didn't really know why you would go rel/JL or svs proved. I think closed & detail will be better for my small roo Near field, dynaudio special 40s PL evo 400 computer set up. Cheers!
This was awesome. The hot girl analogy was just perfect! I am looking for a new sub and after hearing this I might lean towards Rythmik. If they can integrate better than SVS. A sub that disappears and still does the job is really what I am looking for. Different taste is one of the things I like with this hobby but also what I hate the most. Everyone experience stuff different. Like I might really like the cheaper speaker in a series compared to the upper models and sometimes I come across someone who just tells me that I am wrong. And states the upper models is better, more technical, better materials etc. When people tells other people their opinion or experience is wrong because something else is technical superior. That is by far the thing I hate most with this hobby. You might not agree with other peoples experience but don't tell them they are wrong because there is no wrong and right in this, imo.
100% agree. I actually prefer cheaper stuff very often in life. Food is a great example, yes an $80 steak taste great BUT I will be more happy and enjoy an $8 bowl of Pho :), clothes too, the T-Shirts you guys see me wearing it's $8 lol but it fits me nicely. I'm not always trying to be cheap of course but sometimes I like what I like and that's all that matters.
@@NemoPropaganda Totally agree about the food. I can order a fine steak at a restaurant but in general I prefer the cheaper cuts from pork and beef. I rarely buy fine meat at home. Not to be cheap but I like the taste better in most cheaper cuts. They are more fatty and juicy, hehe. 😋 A bowl of Pho is great any time of the week. Got to buy some tomorrow now that you mentioned it. 👍😁
@@alambe7275 Is it really both worlds...I mean I am reading many reviews regarding Arendal being much more musical than SVS but lacks the SVS-slam so to speak.
I owned rel and have svs now. Both are great. Rel more musical, svs more for movies but both brands can handle music and movies well. Best tip i can give: always go double if you can.🙂
So I loved my sb3000 and it actually is a very quick and tight Subwoofer. However it seems most maggie users are happy with the REL T series or Rythmik F12. I’ve not had maggies in my room so i’m just repeating what i’ve heard from other owners :).
My man..... fantastic video! This video was perfect timing I currently have dual pb3000 and I'm in my return window. I saw a pair of REL 1508 for $1000 and thought about picking them up but after you video on going to hold onto my SVS. You have become my favorite content for audio info. Keep up the great work!!!!
I just demod the 1508 and the sb3000 and the 1508 packed so oooo much more punch and just sounded so much better. That thing is an absolute beast. That bigger driver makes a huge difference. I had to turn the sb3000 literally all the way up to get what I was getting on the 1508 at like 60% gain. That being said, idk about the pb3000 but the REL at $1000 I had to grab it. My room is pretty big 22'x22' fyi
@@Torgon8 I was not happy with the output of the dual SB3000 for H/T. I listen to 60% music and 40% H/T... So I opted for the dual PB3000 there definitely not as musical but for movies it absolutely pressurizes my space. You got a GREAT deal on those REL's enjoy and stay safe!!! Cheers Jéan
@@NemoPropaganda I got the REL 1508 setup last night ( I had to return the first one because of a defect) OMG its blowing me away again. I can feel it in my chest from upstairs. -12 db on the AVR and 60% gain. Just nuts. I almost pulled the trigger on a ported 15HP Rythmik before this sale came up. I can't imagine what that would be like.
You nailed it…..!!! People get caught up in their feelings with this stuff. I have heard and seen I. So many forums, people arguing why did you buy a Rel, it’s too expensive and no bass, SVS is too boomy. We all hear differently and like different things from our system and your analogies were excellent. Enjoy what you have and don’t feel offended if someone doesn’t like your brand, remember you are not a brand, you are a person and quite simply, the manufacturer doesn’t really care about you, they only care about you buying the product and in terms you should only care about what the product does for you. I like Rel for two channel and SVS for Home Theater. The photography industry is as bad as this or worst when it comes to brand loyalty and the in fighting.
No, we really don't "all hear differently" (at best we have preferences for general bass and treble areas, but that's about it, literally HF and LF shelf filters lmao). Decades of psychoacoustics research proves it. Problem is, the HiFi world *is dominated by ignorance of acoustics and psychoacoustics* A proper sub needs a lot of integration work for it to not sound "boomy" because it has easily enough power to excite room modes. REL is too expensive and their subbass output is pathetic for the price. You probably use sophisticated automatic room correction for home theater and weren't bothered to do the work in your stereo setup. I don't blame you, but don't go saying the REL is a better sub because of your own negligence and ignorance.
@@Gamez4eveR You are right that we have preferences but don't forget as people get older or they abused their hearing, they are not able to hear higher frequencies as well as a younger person, so their hearing is different but I get your general premise. No ignorance here, I have owned many subs to include Emotiva, Vandersteen, Rel among countless others to include my current SVS SB4000. I have had at least 3 different Rel models and I know what Rel does well and what it doesn't. Yes, I used Auto Room correction and the basic subwoofer crawl before that. I have used Autocorrection for home theater, but I have used regular microphones and other programs to tell me if the Autocorrection was correct and I use a mic and software for two-channel, which is where my primary listening is done and I have a separate home theater and 2 channel system. Room correction helps to give you a visual perspective to match what you are hearing. This helps to quickly solve problems and along with Acoustic Room Treatment, this will solve the problem quickly and give you uniformity in your results. I no longer own Rel because I listen to all different types of music and I found that to get anywhere close to the SVS SB4000 that I would have to spend three to four times the price. The SVS SB4000 along with room measurements and their phone app allows you to adjust the sub to whatever you want it to be and I use the SVS SB4000 in a 2 channel setup and will be buying more in the future. The SVS SB4000 has functionality that you don't get from Rel and I use Mono-blocks with a single sub and on the Rel it can be done, but it isn't supported. So I stand by my statement, is Rel a good sub? yes, but is it the best sub given all factors, like price and overall performance, no. I have friends with Rel subs and their system sound amazing, but they put in the work to get it that way. I have heard Rel's upper-end line of subs, and they are good. We have the tendency to knock things both low end, mid or high end that we have never heard, which is cheating by reaching a result without doing the work. I have built up relationships with Audio Dealers to the point where I can take out equipment that most people will never even see, let alone use. I have been involved in audio since 1985 and have owned many systems and work in video and audio production, so I know audio. I rule nothing out, but I won't knock a good product just because of its price and I'm not afraid to call a bad product bad regardless of its price.
@@sidvicious3129 sure thing, luckily, our hearing in the lower frequencies isn't nearly as affected by aging :) I just know the rewards of a properly integrated essentially high end performance subwoofer (anechoic +-2dB 20 to 120Hz, inaudible group delay performance, peak output over 108dB SPL at 2m). When you hear that church air pressure you know you got real low end
@@Gamez4eveR I agree with you regarding the rewards, I spent two months between work getting things set up properly and when I play certain music, I know when to make very minor adjustments by use of the cellphone amp to achieve the desired goal, especially with Classical, Reggie, hip-hop, Jazz, Rock, and Heavy Metal. The goal is the output and natural bass output, so we agree.
@@sidvicious3129 I have missed the updated content of your original reply, but have read it now and it makes me happy that we seem to agree on this. I am much younger (25) but I've been obsessed with audio since I was 3 since my dad was obsessed with it at the time and took me to a variety of studios and hifi showrooms. My parents are also both professional musicians and I've been classically trained as an accordionist and pianist since I was 7, I also had a bit of an adventure as a high tenor in a semi professional classical choir, so I do honestly think it's not too much to say that I can at least somewhat trust my ear when it comes to sound. I went through a variety of differing views in my young life, and have ended up with strong preferences towards the combination of objective measurements, subjective impressions, and discovering how said measurements impact said impressions. I have a very humble setup consisting of well equalises Yamaha HS7 studio monitors - without EQ their tonality is harsh, luckily thanks to relatively good directivity, fixing on axis flaws translate off axis and we get an objective improvement at the listening position regardles of environment. Any more research that I do regarding this matter seems to only further bolster it so I'm quite confident in this. I myself have used them in a nearfield configuration for years and having recently switched to midfield, I myself have experienced, at least subjectively since I don't yet have a measuring mic, the EQ indeed seems to hold the same improvements in the vastly different layout (we're talking 90cm from tweeter to ear to nearly 3 metres). But that's the easy part. Now comes the hard part: I have a Monolith 12 THX subwoofer. Upgraded from a Yamaha HS8S. Compared to the Mono, the Yamaha was borderline plug and play - do a quick crawl, set it, you're done. But it didn't have the output and it didn't have any real extension below 35Hz. So I after literal weeks of obsessive research I landed on the Mono 12. Currently using EqAPO for EQ and a Behringer crossover, but that's suboptimal and I will upgrade to most likely a balanced MiniDSP Flex. I think I got it to sound "good" after a month of trial and error. I now believe that all music benefits from a true flat-down-to-20 subwoofer. Even lute recordings. That breathtaking pressure is very difficult to describe. I still have: a better dsp, a second subwoofer for better chances against physics and room treatment to get done with before I consider upgrading my monitors :D
Nemo, spot on as usual, couldn’t have said it better myself. Having owned SVS since late 90s I’ve also graduated to what real, articulate clean bass that Rythmik provides. Seamless integration with mains give the illusion the hidden speakers are much bigger than in reality. Keep on doing what you do brother, much love.
@@josealfredfernandes I got 6 messages from you today in my email, you're gonna have to join the free discord if you want to communicate that often. UA-cam comments isn't really convenient for me for extended conversations. Link is in all the newer videos.
i’ve got a pb-1000 and I was super impressed with the quality and extension. The linearity was good enough that I use it to check mixes and even make music sometimes in my studio. my reason for upgrading is I think I want a little bit tighter/accurate/punchy sound, and hoping I will get more even coverage with a sealed. i’m between the sb-1000 pro - sb-2000 pro hopefully dual.
So far I can tell you that my sb 1000 pro has a lot more bang than the sennheiser ambeo sub I had. Which I returned because because of distortion at the top end. But right now I wish I knew the right tuning on the Svs app to cut out some of the harshness. I would say I had like how detailed the sennheiser ambeo sub was in comparison to this one. But I just couldn’t get over the popping of the ambeo sub at top end.
Great video. We have been going down the rabbit hole of reading opiniated reviews & forums without any point of reference. It has been confusing. If only we could spend a week with each woofer it would become very easy. Alas, one has to do some online research and reading. And what a wave of polarized opinion we encountered. This video gives some idea of the different perspectives and really helped clarify things. So, thanks for your candour and clarity of thought.
hey rope if you want to join the free discord we can probably help you pick something, we'd just need to know your intended use, budget, pair or single, size limitations, etc.... Here is the discord link: discord.gg/3PkFQf4y6Z
REL subs have made me change my mind about what I’m looking for in a sub 👉🏾 nuanced, subtle, speedy and detailed bass. Plenty of great subs available for different preferences.
Exactly, there is no right or wrong, I really think I might experiment with a ported sub next. I know many will cry blasphemy but I have to try it again.
@@NemoPropaganda oh wow! It’s sad that the comment section gets so toxic sometimes. We should all just be enjoying this hobby and learn from each other’s experiences.
Great analogy! I agree with you and I have been in both camps over the years. I have had many subwoofer over the years including the Infinity Servo Statik 50 years ago, 24 inch Hartley in a custom enclosure, M&K, Polk and probably some I forgot. I lean more to the REL camp these days as I am more of a music listener and I prefer ribbon speakers, hence I want a fast subwoofer that integrates well and disappears into my system. I think many listeners today are more into home theater and are looking for greater slam. P.S. Nothing wrong with that.. your taste your money👍
Great review. I presently have two Svs Pb 4000s. I’m moderately happy with them but I’m looking for more articulation and quality of bass. I just find them a little one notey. I have a dedicated theater and I thinking about replacing them with two Rel 1508 predators. Would love to get your thoughts on this.
Per other reviews I've seen and my own experience with the 1205 vs the sb2000 the predators should have more articulation. You'll be gaining 24% cone surface area while losing 33% of your wattage. That's a fair trade in my opinion. I think with the increase in surface area you'll find more of that rumble experience at all volume levels but especially at lower volumes and the difference in wattage is a moot point as I have a sneaking suspicion that the REL driver has higher sensitivity and lastly REL being REL you kind of just expect to have more articulation. Since they offer an In home trial you can just buy 1 from Adorama or REL directly and give it a whirl, if it's not up to your standards just ship it back :)
I went from SVS which were great subwoofers, had alot of fun with them to REL, however I will never buy another SVS subwoofer as long as there are subwoofers like REL around. They are Just two different sounding subwoofers and one brand floats my boat more than the other.
@@rckrckrckrck Yeah I'm digging the Rythmik sound so far, it really is odd with all the experience I have I literally cannot tell bass from the speakers vs bass from the sub, it just sounds like it's all coming from the same place.
Just purchased a couple of Rel t7i subs a couple of days ago, upgrading from a kef ls50 with dual tzero setup to a ls50 and dual t7i setup, can't wait until they arive!
Reminds me of one channel that compared Rels and SVS subs from the same category of price. SVS had 3 times more power in terms pf watts and was a bigger woofer but Rel could get to much higher desibels without distorting. Specs are overrated these days especially when looking at RELs!
Interesting watch. Definitely on the Rel side and more so now I'm older. In my youth I would have a big sub in the boot/trunk of the car. Now I have a small one and do my best to get it integrated as smoothly as possible with my mids. Still new to subs in the home. Not yet chosen one but Rel is top of my list
What an honest, down to earth and well informed video. And what a great analogy! Definitely lady #2 (which describes my wife to a tee ❤️). So Rel for me 🙏🏼
ok so little update here. I found svs are sounding the same no matter what material i am playing. They have also big attack and it was fooling me by the beginning. Now i have rythmiks and ... there is no comparision i would not take svs for free .. rythmik sounds like speaker, svs like hammer.
I really enjoy your honest reviews. Thank you. I bought two SVS 1000 Pros for my 2 channel high fidelity system. They integrate so well I have to sometimes check to be sure they are on. When the program calls for low-end, they deliver in a seemless way thanks to the excellent adjustability. For me, these are great. Maybe if I heard an SQ subwoofer in direct comparison I might notice, but I'm happy with the 1000 Pros.
integration is like other aspects of sound, how much is enough to satisfy can vary from person to person so your needs for integration could be perfect for the SB1000 pro which is a sub that does integrate fairly well, it's my favorite SVS sub!
@@NemoPropaganda I know you have reviewed a lot of subs, and your review of the SVS SB1000 pro was the primary inspiration for me getting them! Thank you.
Thanks for explaining. My personal taste would be to have a 2 channel system that has a sub that blends into the system and a home theatre system that thumps and wows. I did start with the SVS PB16 Ultra to do both and eventually will get a smaller 12in Rel for 2 channel audio
@@NemoPropaganda I was surprised too. It certainly doesn’t blend into a room either. It is a challenge to match it with the speakers but I do love the app on my phone. Just have to constantly be willing to tweak it depending on what’s playing.
@@chrishargreaves6549 i'm not surprised, its so large it's going to have a hard time keeping up with smaller speakers but for theater it's low end authority is absolutely amazing! I'd try plugging 2 of the ports when listening to music (make the change in the app also of course so the sub knows its in 1 port mode) that will help tighten things up for music.
Nice video ...His car analogy is funny. I am betting some people say they want neither car and will buy another Honda or Toyota product that is polar opposite of the German brands
Thanks for the review Nemo. After staying in the SVS camp with the PC 2000. I am planning to go for the REL HT 1508 for a change. Nothing wrong with SVS though. My tastes are 50:50 for music/music
I still miss the low end of my PC2000 but since your jumping to a sealed 15" you'll probably be fine. I went to a sealed 12" so naturally I had less authority/rumble in the ultra low regions. I do love the tighter presentation and quicker response of sealed models though.
Thanks a lot for the advice. Sorry meant 50:50 music/movies. I like your reviews as they are spot on & helps people like us. I too am contemplating missing the low end of the PC 2000 after going for the REL. Really love that effortless rumble of the SVS for movies but I guess I need to experiment on the music side too. Out of curiosity would like to know which one you preferred for your tastes for music , the REL 1205 or the RythmikF12SE ?
@@nitinkanchan5294 I appreciated the hell out of each subwoofer and I still own both of them however at roughly $400 more expensive the F12SE is the better unit but neither was 100% suited to my personal taste of "perfect". The Rythmik came close but it's just 1" too big to look right in my room and didnt have the slam I wanted but god damn did it integrate flawlessly! It's beautiful don't get me wrong but aesthetically it was just a smidgen too big and considering I'm a low volume listener (75-80db) I will never use the capability of either sub so I'm playing with smaller subs now like the KC62, REL T5, and SVS Micro.
I think they do that because the LFE channel can contain data up to 120hz although I'm not sure modern mixes do that. I have a F113 and I have my processor crossover set at 65hz but I leave the low pass on the sub at 120. If you lower that low pass filter then that data will not be sent to any speakers.
Omg this video is awesome 👏 thanks for making it and no bs. I have an svs will two but my ears feel like they are fatigued over the bass. Like it’s awesome deep and loud but I miss some of the mid bass. I might go within another company. Svs is good but I’m not about super loud low anymore.
Glad I could help! What you are describing is the heaviness that comes with SPL style bass, some people love it while some prefer the lighter tone of SQ style bass. Which SVS subs are you running? You might be able to play around with the PEQ settings to bring in some more midbass a la REW trial and error.
@@NemoPropaganda I have the classic pb13 ultra with the new amp that has the app control to it and I also have the classic pb12 plus with the digital amp but not the one with app control.
@@angelboy12 okay yeah, larger ported subs from any brand generally won't have tactile midbass. What they will give you is damn near unmatched output between 20-40hz which is where a lot of movie effects are. I have a friend who was running dual PB16 and he too was missing the tactile bass so he added an SB2000 Pro next to his couch for that fast hard hitting bass and it worked out really well but if you want a different presentation that's more SQ style where the bass is less the focal point and not really drawing your attention while still having the strong output you have currently you're going to spend some dollars. You'd want something like dual sealed 15's from one of the SQ brands and that's just not cheap. Bass is constant game of compromising this for that. I'd try turning your bass down just a dB and seeing if that helps before you unload a bunch of cash.
Another great video, thanks. Interesting you have this opinion and I agree with you. Recently I headed down to my hifi shop for a cable and my friend who runs the shop told me I had to listen to a couple of songs on the fancy system. He has two towers of three REL subs either side of the mains. Long story short I was a bit disappointed as the eye candy didn't match the 'feel'. At home I run one SVS sub (sealed) with my ATC mains and the presence is more alive, even though it's also backed right down so you hardly notice it. The SVS breathes life into music and gets the foot tapping and smile going. I didn't quite get that with the REL and I think I know why now, its my taste. The SVS suits how I like to experience my music. While I'm here I would like to say that if you add isolators (like my isoacoustic gaia2) under your mains and sub/s then be aware that the floor won't shake. If you like the floor shaking as part of the experience then don't add them. Yes the isolators make the voices 'real' but the physical vibration through the feet and bum is gone no matter the volume.
man... i love your channel! your analogies are great!! got the B&W ASW608 because of your recommendation and absolutely love it in my second stereo setup! would love to get a nice musical sub for my Q acoustics concept 40s in my living room (room is about 27X24 sq. feet). Any recommendation, up to $1200? will only be listening to music...mostly jazz and classical. keep up the great work!
@@themastroiannis a single Rythmik F12SE would be great, the REL Predator 1508 is on sale right now for $1000 from Adorama and the HT-1205 is on sale for $449 so a pair of those would be killer too!
@@NemoPropaganda hey! thanks so much! could not find the HT-1205 at the sale price you mention. what a pity; at that price, it would have been awesome! maybe i will go with Rythmik and will let you know how it goes...
@@themastroiannis totally up to you but i do have an extra one if you want it. Shoot me an email if interested. The F12SE is certainly a step up though.
@@NemoPropaganda your videos are simple, honest, Intuitive and bang on. I just bought a SVS SB 3000 and it will be shipped tomorrow. Was struggling with the ported PB3000 size (Huge). So hope the SB can give me a nice punch
@@kazuto1905 oh dude, you'll be good, unless your room is ginormous the SB3000 is insanely capable of serious output. I owned one for a little over a year and IMO it's just about as much bass as you can have in that form factor without spending a crazy amount more money. It likes to be played loud and will reward you with lots of output with really good speed.
So true. I almost purchased the SVS from reviews but ended up purchasing the REL RT/1508 due to size and sale price to replace my good old Velodyne from the 90s. That Velodyne shook my room and pounded my heart while playing music or watching movies. The REL HT was meant for my home theater system but it ended up with my stereo system after I paired the CW IV with SET tube amp. The REL didn't have the impact and awe effect as the Velodyne but it integrated so well I never noticed the sub at all. The REL HT series are meant for home theater and T/X series are for two channels music. I almost brought the T/X for the CW IV and put the HT on the theater system. When I asked if the T/X 7 or 9 better for my CW IV. REL advised me to stay with the HT because it is a better match for the high sensitivity of the CW IV. REL cares for its customers more than a sale. REL not only manufactures one of the most musical subwoofers you can buy it is also one of the most honest and carrying companies around.
Thanks for the honest review. With over 50 years as an audiophile I have become tired of the use of anthropomorphism in attempts to describe audio gear. But I did appreciate your attempt. As least you did not stoop to the one thing I find worse than fingernails across a chalkboard, that is the worn out phrase used by some reviewers in almost every review “punches above its weight”. So thanks also for that.😊
Hey Score, thank you for the kind words!! I've reviewed many items, I have yet to find more than a couple of products that I felt were priced lower than their performance so we're on the same page there! And honestly the few that "punched above their weight" had a caveat that made the price make sense. A shortcoming here or there that was easy to overlook. Polk Reserve for exmample sounds amazing, but you can hear the price in the tweeter, its treble will not outperform anything more expensive, but its midrange might, it's all give and take :).
Hi Jim, that's awesome, you might have speakers that pair super well with them. Just curious do you happen to have a larger room? I've always felt the SB3000 shined brightest when it was cranking in a larger room.
Hey! Great video, got me really thinking! I am still at the drawingboard with the sub. It will be for a small room which is brick shaped. I saw a video from darko and I would like a KEF ls50 meta with bluenode 2021 and adding a sub to it! Since I don't want to spend another too many euros on sub for this room size and setup, I don't know if a smaller REL would do the job since I haven't heard one in person, nor and svs one. In my country it's a small market for this, they dont have pre setup rooms and systems for this you could try out anytime. Usually I'm more into bass heavy music like electronic or hip hop, everything else comes after. Would the smallest svs 1000 pro or tel t5x do the job for a small room like I have? 3,5 x6 meter maybe, listening would be like 2,5 meters away. I still want to listen to other type of music of course and harmony is what I'm shooting for. BTW, I'm a Mercedes guy
Hey brother, mmm mercedes huh? Okay no problem you're still cool :). So your room is small to medium size it sounds like. I think you should email REL and ask them if 1 T5X will be enough, I'm not sure honestly as I reviewed a pair and I worry 1 may not be enough for your rooms volume. I don't know how tall your ceilings are but if they are 9ft we're looking at about 1800 sq ft, I would instead consider something like the REL HT-1003 instead with it's larger driver and more power or even HT-1205. The SVS SB1000 Pro with it's 12" driver and 325w RMS will of course be big enough for your space unless you listen very loud. Electronic music can be very demanding, for a single sub in your room the HT-1003 is the smallest I recommend.
Hey Vinayak, no absolutely not! SVS actually makes incredibly robust & rigid cabinets and none of them have any resonance that I have heard, not even their most affordable models. It essentially comes down to moving mass and we can see this in car audio too, we have brands like Focal & Morel that make these light weight subwoofers that play incredibly clean but they can't handle too much power (unless you spend big money). Then we have brands like Digital Design that have a moving mass often times triple that of Focal & Morel but they are capable of extreme SPL but lose that lightness that adds a certain character to the sound. It's the same with speakers, a lot of people just don't notice it. Light weight drivers just sound different than heavier drivers.
I just found out your channel and I kinda like it :-) I would like to know what damping settings are you using on Rythmik subwoofer and why? To my understandings this sub should be very dynamic in terms of impulse response due to servo control. But that depends on your settings, right? So if you compare it on low settings with REL, which is no servo control, then it can be less defined and vice versa . But I never heard servo control in my life. But in my next project I will use two GRci kits to build subs in wall. Along with coaxial drivers with DSP amplification.
@@NemoPropaganda What has tighter bass, a Rythmik with high damping or a REL? Since REL doesn't have damping settings would you say it's closest to Rythmik's high setting?
@@Slickman2006 I haven't really made that comparison, both are so good with respect to all the SQ characteristics the setup options are just different. You can get either one to sound incredible. The biggest difference is the larger F12 will of course extend much lower and play louder.
I got a real t7i used on offer up for 600. It’s so Fucken sweet. Using the high level input it sounds so seemless. It’s fun messing with the dials depending on the album lm playing. It knows how to act depending on the genre. I got it to go with the klh model 5’s . It really rounded out the experience. Like a nice rug that ties the room together
Hmmm. Not sure that I agree totally with the differences between REL and SVS. I think that you can dial in an SVS to be well integrated, but it takes a bit more effort, in terms of setting the crossover and the -db. My own challenge was that I was adding a sub to floor standers that already went down to mid 30’s. I was just looking for extra extension below that. An SVS 3000 can do that. Doing it with a REL is challenging without a lot more $$$
Kind of like I said in the video though just because REL and Rythmik integrate well it doesn't mean SVS doesn't integrate good also it's just not as good by direct comparison. You can setup a $700 HT-1205 to integrate perfectly in about 10 minutes.
This is hands down my favorite video that you made! Love the honesty. Keep it up
Thank you dude!
Brother your analogy is spot on. Best and most sensible explanation yet. Thanks for the great post.
thank you phil!! I appreciate you watching the video!
Your videos are very easy to understand and straightforward. I'm going with Rel. It has not been an easy decision but you've helped me out a great deal. Thank you for all your hard work.
Hey Ronald, glad I could help, I made this video for selfish reasons so I'm glad it's serving more than just myself :).
Your Mercedes/BMW analogy *resonated* with me. (I have owned both and yes, NOTHING drives like a BMW. The feel of the steering!) Great way to describe the differences in these types of subs. Different "feels"/"Sounds" for two different types of people and what they need. Great job.
thanks nunya, glad it made sense :)
Thanks for this video and for breaking down the differences this way. I don’t have all the scientific knowledge on speakers, etc but just a guy who wants to build a great sounding setup. It really helped me get a better understanding on the differences between these brands and also what to look for in a subwoofer in general. I’m definitely subscribing to this channel and making it one of my go to sources for reviews and info!
glad you enjoyed it my man!
Great way of describing... At this point in my life, I'm in the REL camp. When I was younger it would have been SVS.
Thanks so much for this vid. I've been watching several sub vid last few months and have been completely stuck. I've felt like REL was the right speaker but no one's managed to accurately articulate exactly how the two differ so I kept researching other models as well. You've helped to clear it all up in one short vid. I have very revealing system very textured detailed silky smooth setup and I didn't want a sub that would compromise any of that. It's amazing the details I get and now I know REL will compliment my components. Again thanks so much you've saved me a few more months of anxiety and possibly wrong decision. Great analogies very creative and relatable.
I'm happy it was helpful, I spent about 3 months just thinking about this question while wondering how to make this video. I wanted it to be simple to understand and easily relateable :)
Love your reviews. You keep it all the way 100 and you're great with the analogies. Thank you for what you do and keep up the good work. Also love the tactful use of curse words !!!
I appreciate the hell out of this comment, honestly sometimes when I get through a whole video and realize I didn't swear a single time I'm kind of bummed lol.
I spent hours integrating my SVS PB-1000 into my system. It can blend well into a system provided you're good at placement and have a good ear for the gain and phase adjustment.
That's awesome! I was able to integrate my PC-2000 fairly well also when I had that but a lot of this comes down to taste and "how much" integration you want with your bass. For your system its probably perfect for your taste. Not everyone likes maximum integration and some people prefer no integration at all. Personally I don't like the comfort of a Mercedes S560, i find it too comfortable, too cush, just not for me, likewise a BMW M3 is too uncomfortable, but my Audi S7, ah for me, fucking perfection! But the S560 owner would say my S7 is so stiff so it's really "what works for you" that everyone should be trying to get, and not what product is good/bad/etc...
“You people that are extremists...I hate you”
👍👍👍👍
because yes
This is the 3rd or 4th video of yours ive watched after randomly coming across your review on the jamo c19 because i saw it on sale for $150. But I have to say your candid honesty and critical thinking/open mindedness is such a breath of fresh air in this cesspool that is youtube. And honestly i normally wouldve thought i was more of the type of guys that wanted to see all the raw data and specs graphs etc because "why would i want to watch a video of some dude just talking ?" But i think your genuineness speaks volumes compared to any numbers ever could.. i dont typically comment on stuff but im just impressed with the authenticity
Hey chem, thank you for the kind words. I appreciate your candid feedback. I just try and keep it real. My real job pays the bills so the YT channel is just for fun :)
Love your approach. It speaks to my perspective. I’m experiential by nature, but also ADHD and OCD.
Ultimately, I seek the experience.
I love the car metaphor. I’ve driven modern phenomenons (2015 Porsche Cayman S) and other tuned vehicles with amazing capabilities.
However, I get greater joy from driving my 1970 Volvo 1800E (with suspension upgrades).
My system is music centric. Naim XS3 amp, Rega P6 with Ania MC cartridge trurntable, Lounge Copla MC preamp, Zu Druid IV-13 (Druid V update) speakers.
In my quest to fill the bottom end, I’m looking at REL 9/7/5 vs SVS 3000.
Going REL to start.
This video was absolutely perfect, best explanation, simple and easy to understand.
I just bought an SVS 1000 SB for my F501's a couple of months ago but as I analyzed movies and music the more I used it, the more I realize I have yet to set up a cut off I like or figure out room acoustics to a point of truly enjoying my new system. Could also be the cheap Yahama rxv 679 lol.
A month later I bought the new Elac UBR62 Uni-Fi Reference with the Iotavx stack for my pc and holy shit wow!!! What a match those are with the sub.
The SVS I have is very well placed for both the home theater AND pc somehow (10 minute crawl ftw) and does integrate to the point where it feels like it's just coming out of the speakers for my PC, I wish I could get the same results with the 501's but it's more than likely my horrible room acoustics have something to do with that.
After watching this video though I think I really want to try the Rythmik L12, but I'm going to work on getting a better avr or processor/amp combo and fix that left corner bass problem this room has.
Holy moly. The past couple of days I’ve been researching my ass off on this topic. Perfect video
Glad I could help :D
For music research open baffle subs. Better than rel and souns completely diff from anything you would have ever heard.
Damn good explanation and it’s very helpful to give people out there perspectives when choosing subs . I have 3 REL subs and I really appreciate the integration it gives to my watching experiences. Great job .. I am now a subscriber to your channel . Cheers
Hey Rick, thank you, welcome aboard my friend!
Your explanation about preferences is spot on! Just a different taste! I've posted a vid on youtube with a Rel T9i. Sold him, nut now thinking of adding a sub again.
Hey Rick, yeah I think we all go back and fourth on certain things lol. It's part of the journey :)
I was driving myself nuts what to buy. Review after review I watchedand read. I have always been a precise kind of guy. By definition the Rel seemed to be my choice, you and Spare Change swayed me, Rel was my choice. Adorama had the Rel HT 1508 Predators at $999.00 I stretched my wallet and bought 2. Should I not be happy I can return them for free. To get total slam and accuracy where they disappear is above my budget. I think I chose wisely after all the reading. I just installed them so time will tell... I have been in the audio game since the 70's and we both know hype isn't everything. I always enjoy what I buy or just return it. Thanks for the honest thoughts. Btw I owned 1969-73 Mustang Mach 1s... :-) 😀
Nice, the 1508 should be awesome!
Amazingly helpful reviews and responses to my tedious questions. I ended up going with dual SVS SB-3000. Very difficult decision, as REL and Rythmik are absolutely amazing. My living room system is 5.2, and dominated by kids movies. If it were a music only 2.1, I would have likely gone REL or Rythmik. That, and a seller made me a great offer on the mint pair. I'm happy with the upgrade (which I find substantially better sounding than my older gen SVS, and highly tuneable through the app). I think any option would have worked well.
aye whats up bro, thank you for the update, a pair of sb3000 should bang pretty hard in that room! You still have the 1000 pro?
@@NemoPropaganda yes I sure do! I have the SB-1000 Pro in my office 2.1 system, where I get most my music listening hours!
@@ABHORRANCE831 nice!
Some very good analogies in there,nice explanation video. Personally I went for an SVS sb4000 and couldn't be happier,perfect sub for me. Subscribed now and look forward to your future videos
Hey thank's John! The SB4000 is a beast! I came very close to buying one but after having 3 SVS subs I thought I should give other brands some attention lol. That app is seriously awesome! I do wish there was an option to simplify it though kind of like turn off the features you don't want to adjust for example. It would keep an OCD punk like me from constantly messing around with settings :)
I've learned so much from your videos while going through the process of buying sub, thank you so much, subbed.
Thank you Pcham! I will cover this topic a little more in the upcoming REL T9X video coming this week, I've discovered the easiest way to break it down is really spectrum in which we have SQ subwoofers on one end and SPL subwoofers on another end. All subs fall somewhere on that spectrum. With that in mind I hope to be able to help everyone find the subwoofer that is correct for them :).
Fantastic video! I love my JL Audio subs. I loved the REL's too. You're right, I wanted a little bit more slam while still being articulate. Maybe in the coming years, I will be switching camps.
Honestly bro just keep what you have, don't open the door of madness lol. I wish I could just keep my system the same way.
@@NemoPropaganda Oh don't worry, I'm done building my first system. Now I'm going to work on my 2nd system which will be mid tier vs budget-ish for my first one.
@@dicmccoy Nice! I wish i could do a second system. I have a spare room but it's a perfect square :(
@@NemoPropaganda a near perfect square is what I'm dealing with. It's not the greatest but it gets the job done. I need a much bigger house.
Me too bro, i’m in California so we get screwed pretty hard on square footage. Homes in my city are like $750k and 1800sqft 😭😭. Over 2000 is usually $1m.
Love your video. Helped me to go with REL T5i!!
Awesome, that's a great little guy, just don't expect earth shattering sub 30hz bass. It'll more give you overall fullness of sound, that's it's magic.
Congrats. For me, I compared the 2x L12 with 2x t5i. I liked the Rythmik a little better than the RELs. Also, downfiring subs in my house don't work very well.
@@Eugene737 That's an odd comparison, how did the 2 8" woofers fair? I feel like they would have been greatly out done by 2 12" woofers?
@@NemoPropaganda Pretty well actually. I was trying to compare subwoofers not based on their woofer size but moreso on price. 8" would have been fine for this room, and the RELs sounded great (on their sides and not down firing) in my room.
@@Eugene737 Very interesting, Maybe I'll give them a whirl next...
I have a REL Q108E and agree with your assessment! It integrates very well and doesn't call attention to itself but you know it's doing its job!!!
I do love the honesty of your vids! Channels like you are the reason youtube is actually a great place for unbiased information! Never change man! 💙
Thank's FIsh, that's super kind of you to say!
just purchased the Rels T7X glad i watched this video....
How are you liking the Rels, im looking at getting one....
Thank u for the breakdown & comparisons! I'm one of those "I want the sub to disappear" guys - I have a SVS & the gain is dialed in pretty low bcause all I wanted was a tad more bottom added to my stand mount speakers. Now I'm wondering if switching to a Rel or Rythmik would even be worthwhile given the low sub volume I like. Thoughts??🤔
Sooooo, I would say no! My reason for saying no is it sounds like you're happy with what you have and how it's setup. Also I have setup subs in a similar way in the past and I do feel that if you keep the gain really low you can integrate most subs well enough :).
@@NemoPropaganda Thanx for the confirmation, I was thinking the same.👍🏼
@Thomas, the short answer is yes! I own the HT/1205 mated to a pair of Martin Logan Aerius i. I can tell you from experience that sonically, it "disappears." It's freaking awesome! Interestingly, Nemo's review of the HT/1205, along with a few exchanged messages, influenced my decision. This year I am updating several components in my system, and I'm going to upgrade to two Series S. I'm still deciding between the S/510 and the S/812. Go for it! Oh, I highly recommend dual subs. If it doesn't fit your budget, that's okay. After having the one HT/1205, and it's adequate, I see the value of having two.
@@caballerosuave Pourtant le Ht1205 est plus orienté home cinéma, à cause de son caisson qui n'est pas clos. Après, le S/812 ne joue pas dans la cour. Environ 3 fois le prix du Ht. Mais parait-il qu'il excelle en hifi.
Here on youtube and on the internet in general, you helped me the most with my decision of which brand I spend my money on for my first subwoofer. You seem authentic and honest - that's why I take your word and opinion. It's no fun to browse audio forums where they compare and argue upon spec sheets and make up some bs about other companies. My system will be soon completed and I'm confident that it will satisfy my needs and expectations.
hey thank you bro, that's pretty much my goal. On my own journey I found myself constantly obsessing over gear to the point I was fear locked and couldn't make a decision. It was starting to take the fun out of things so I made this channel to try and help people avoid that constant obsessive part of the hobby. If you're in the free discord please post some updates on how it all goes!
Great video! Well said about keeping this hobby fun! We should be thankful there are several great brands at different price points, meeting different needs! There's never been a better time to enjoy hi-fi and home theater!
Well said brother!
Thanks for the honest opinion, my svs sb1000 sucks in 2 channel but my svs pb1000's are great in home theater. Now the hunt restarts for a "musical" 2 channel subwoofer and I was leaning to the Rel for just what you state... IT'S ALL MADNESS!!!
Hey Tim, I wouldn't say SVS sucks with music, it just really depends on your taste, I was able to get great results with the SB1000-Pro in a music system but they do have a lot of fine grain controls so it can certainly be challenging, some people love the fine grain controls for others it's too much as 1 wrong setting can mess up the whole presentation. REL takes the opposite approach and only gives you 3 things to adjust making setup much more foolproof. A lot of people love the REL approach and then some people want more fine grain control so one brand can never win over everyone but it sounds like you might be happier with something like a T7X or HT1205.
@Tim P, you can’t go wrong with the HT/1205 for double duty. If your budget allows take a look at the Serie S line. That’s what I’m upgrading to this summer.
I had to retire my old JBL S120P II sub. I thought that it was a great all around sub. Subtle when it needed to be and slammed when you wanted it to. The amp died, after almost 20 years, so I went hunting for a new one. A friend's Boston Acoustics 12" sub did NOTHING to fill in the void. I went to Magnolia and auditioned about 8 subs. REL and SVS were my finalists. I even thought about a Martin Logan but it was too subtle. I truly agree with this video.... It was truly a matter of what did I want most out of my sub, and this time, I wanted the sub to kick my ass, Mike Tyson style. I opted for the SVS. It felt closer to what my JBL wished it could do and did it.
But, god, I loved that REL
Thank you for sharing, this is a perfect example of how excellent both brands are and it's really just personal taste.
SVS for me it’s awesome now I just gotta give me one more to pair with my pb 1000 Pro and get rid of my other 2 klipsch subwoofers can’t wait
martin logan is very under rated, the good ones has the punch of the svs and is incredibly musical like the rel. Gotta listen to them, they don’t receive a lot of recognition
Just stopping by to say your videos are the shit. Great job. Always listening while doing boring ass work on my computer and your take / comments are always on point. Keep up the great work man.
Hell yeah bro, I do the same thing lol, I tell people I don't watch youtube, I listen to youtube :)
Very well said throughout, great video as always
I have a T9i for the stereo and the svs 2000 pb pro for home theater. Both are great . Each one best in their area of expertize:)
ooo you are a lucky man :D I wish i had a T9i!
Very interesting. I am hesitating between the T9i, the SVS SB 3000 and the B&W DB4S. My main interest is musical content. So for you the Rel would be the best for this purpose ? Have you been able to compare it with the DB4S ? Thanks !
@@alantranouez2815 I think all the subs I mentioned are great for music, it just depends what you're looking for. I have not heard the DB4S as it's a little too expensive imo. I would rather have the REL T9i or SB3000 for that price and put the extra money in my pocket. The SB3000 is as much bass as you can get from that size and price point and it's a damn tight/quick subwoofer too. SVS has a generous in home trial as does REL, I'd flip a coin and order from one of them and see how you like it :). Also how big is your room? If it's big the SB3000 has nearly triple the power of the T9i so that's important to keep in mind. If your room is small to medium the T9i should be good and the SB3000 might be overkill and so on... There are a million reasons that make this ultra user specific.
I've got both. SVS SB3000 connected to the LFE channel. A REL T7X connected to the center channel. They work really well together. The REL is a recent addition and it made a noticeable difference.
Nice! I'm guessing gun shot effects are incredibly impactful!!! That sounds awesome!
which has more kick, the rel or the svs?,thanks
@@camilofajardo1453 the Svs is connected to the LFE channel. The REL is wired to the center speaker. Svs moves more air. I noticed more slam with anything out of the center speaker.
How did you connect the sun to the Centre channel? Did you connect the high level cable to the Centre channel or to the amp?
Dude I am so glad you made this video. I know this is old, but I just pulled the trigger on a FV18 Rythmik to keep up with my 1977 Klipsch La Scalas in a dual purpose HT 2.1/music setup. And what you said about them is freaking exactly what I was hoping. Something that blends beautifully, that fills in that sub 60hz zone effortlessly, and is everywhere, but nowhere at the same time. I was obviously already excited, but now it is going to be torture until this subwoofer comes in.
wow man, you got the big daddy! congrats! If you're in the free discord would love to see some pics once you get it! discord.gg/nemopropaganda
@@NemoPropaganda Awesome! Will do. Not an ideal sound space I have, but the next house will have a dedicated HT/listening room where I can do more sound treatment and such. I needed this big boy to attempt to fill this living room which opens into the kitchen and a hallway. Again not ideal, but I am sure this baby will fill it nicely if I can place it in a solid spot for my primary listening position.
Finally a reviewer who actually talks about the why more than the what, balance and taste, more than an outright winner, thank you, you are the most intelligent and informative reviewer of audio equipment I have found, keep it up... and manufacturers... take note of this guy!
Wow, those are a lot of kind words, thank you Paul, I just got asked this question so much I knew there had to be some better way of explaining it aside from methodically asking the person what they listen to, or what the rest of their system is, etc... Happy you enjoyed the vid!
I just got a SB-2000 pro to go with my Heresy IV's. Going with the sealed design seemed like a good middle ground. They can get in your face for home theatre and music with slamming bass while still being plenty articulate for my taste. I also looked at the REL HT line, and I expect I would have been happy either way.
Hey Greg, that's a fair statement for sure. I think 90% of people will be happy either way. These difference are generally only going to show up when doing a direct comparison but at the end of the day I truly believe this hobby is more like food and personal taste is the biggest factor.
GREAT GREAT breakdown on subs - took me years to acquire this conclusion ….And then there re Arendal subs- the best of both worlds- aLMOST REL like articulation and detail, AND GREAT slam and authority and dig deep but no boom !! Great construction and very price competitive and BEAUTIFUL finish. Arendal will please any discerning subwoofer buyer
So I keep hearing, I reached out to them for a sample recently, If I don't hear back soon I might just buy the damn thing but I will be a bit salty :).
I looked at the but way I over my budget for the model I wanted AND I wanted 2... I bought 2 Rel HT 1508s that were on sale for $999 with free returns. Granted the Arendal looks great! Enjoy!
@@whocares0503 I have the Arendal 1723 and 1961 here, so far I can say I like the sound of the HT range over the 1961 range so I think you made a good decision. I'm playing with the 1723 right now though, we'll see if it's larger 13.8" driver can impress or not...
@@NemoPropaganda My guess is you liked the HT range better for music? What about the HT range do you like better than the Arendal?
@@marcusmcmurray77 well this is kind of like asking me why I chose to buy an Audi instead of a BMW, it's really personal taste mostly but for me it has the right balance of attributes and is easy to set up. That's really what it comes down to. It's never sounded bad no matter what speakers I pair it with. I keep the frequency at 9 oclock, the gain too, and the phase at 180, literally blends with everything and really easily.
Love the comparison. Awesome video! 👍🏾
Thanks Antwan! I appreciate you leaving a comment.
I've never commented on any video ever, but you explanation, analysis, & honesty made start right now! Love the explanation & honesty. I'm between the two types & didn't really know why you would go rel/JL or svs proved. I think closed & detail will be better for my small roo
Near field, dynaudio special 40s PL evo 400 computer set up.
Cheers!
Wow, thank you, glad I could help.
This was awesome. The hot girl analogy was just perfect! I am looking for a new sub and after hearing this I might lean towards Rythmik. If they can integrate better than SVS. A sub that disappears and still does the job is really what I am looking for.
Different taste is one of the things I like with this hobby but also what I hate the most. Everyone experience stuff different. Like I might really like the cheaper speaker in a series compared to the upper models and sometimes I come across someone who just tells me that I am wrong. And states the upper models is better, more technical, better materials etc. When people tells other people their opinion or experience is wrong because something else is technical superior. That is by far the thing I hate most with this hobby. You might not agree with other peoples experience but don't tell them they are wrong because there is no wrong and right in this, imo.
100% agree. I actually prefer cheaper stuff very often in life. Food is a great example, yes an $80 steak taste great BUT I will be more happy and enjoy an $8 bowl of Pho :), clothes too, the T-Shirts you guys see me wearing it's $8 lol but it fits me nicely. I'm not always trying to be cheap of course but sometimes I like what I like and that's all that matters.
@@NemoPropaganda Totally agree about the food. I can order a fine steak at a restaurant but in general I prefer the cheaper cuts from pork and beef. I rarely buy fine meat at home. Not to be cheap but I like the taste better in most cheaper cuts. They are more fatty and juicy, hehe. 😋
A bowl of Pho is great any time of the week. Got to buy some tomorrow now that you mentioned it. 👍😁
@@sebulbathx I miss eating Pho :( Hopefully my local spots are still in business.
Yeah but svs for me I want The best of both worlds
@@alambe7275 Is it really both worlds...I mean I am reading many reviews regarding Arendal being much more musical than SVS but lacks the SVS-slam so to speak.
I owned rel and have svs now. Both are great. Rel more musical, svs more for movies but both brands can handle music and movies well. Best tip i can give: always go double if you can.🙂
If going double could you do one of each, so you get the best of both worlds?
My system is 50% HT and 50% Music.
@@damonmaddox1313 No, always go double with the same brand and type subwoofer.
God bless, well said!
Thoughts on duel SB-3000’s for a pair of Maggie 1.7’s?
So I loved my sb3000 and it actually is a very quick and tight Subwoofer. However it seems most maggie users are happy with the REL T series or Rythmik F12. I’ve not had maggies in my room so i’m just repeating what i’ve heard from other owners :).
My man..... fantastic video! This video was perfect timing I currently have dual pb3000 and I'm in my return window. I saw a pair of REL 1508 for $1000 and thought about picking them up but after you video on going to hold onto my SVS. You have become my favorite content for audio info. Keep up the great work!!!!
Oh man that’s a super apples to oranges comparison. The two sound so different from each other. Both are great though.
I just demod the 1508 and the sb3000 and the 1508 packed so oooo much more punch and just sounded so much better. That thing is an absolute beast. That bigger driver makes a huge difference. I had to turn the sb3000 literally all the way up to get what I was getting on the 1508 at like 60% gain. That being said, idk about the pb3000 but the REL at $1000 I had to grab it. My room is pretty big 22'x22' fyi
@@Torgon8 I was not happy with the output of the dual SB3000 for H/T. I listen to 60% music and 40% H/T... So I opted for the dual PB3000 there definitely not as musical but for movies it absolutely pressurizes my space.
You got a GREAT deal on those REL's enjoy and stay safe!!!
Cheers
Jéan
@@Torgon8 oh yeah, 33% more surface area is a huge difference :D. The SB-3000 is a serious beast of it's own though considering how small it is.
@@NemoPropaganda I got the REL 1508 setup last night ( I had to return the first one because of a defect) OMG its blowing me away again. I can feel it in my chest from upstairs. -12 db on the AVR and 60% gain. Just nuts. I almost pulled the trigger on a ported 15HP Rythmik before this sale came up. I can't imagine what that would be like.
Awesome video man! Thanks a lot
You nailed it…..!!! People get caught up in their feelings with this stuff. I have heard and seen I. So many forums, people arguing why did you buy a Rel, it’s too expensive and no bass, SVS is too boomy. We all hear differently and like different things from our system and your analogies were excellent. Enjoy what you have and don’t feel offended if someone doesn’t like your brand, remember you are not a brand, you are a person and quite simply, the manufacturer doesn’t really care about you, they only care about you buying the product and in terms you should only care about what the product does for you. I like Rel for two channel and SVS for Home Theater. The photography industry is as bad as this or worst when it comes to brand loyalty and the in fighting.
No, we really don't "all hear differently" (at best we have preferences for general bass and treble areas, but that's about it, literally HF and LF shelf filters lmao). Decades of psychoacoustics research proves it.
Problem is, the HiFi world *is dominated by ignorance of acoustics and psychoacoustics*
A proper sub needs a lot of integration work for it to not sound "boomy" because it has easily enough power to excite room modes. REL is too expensive and their subbass output is pathetic for the price.
You probably use sophisticated automatic room correction for home theater and weren't bothered to do the work in your stereo setup. I don't blame you, but don't go saying the REL is a better sub because of your own negligence and ignorance.
@@Gamez4eveR You are right that we have preferences but don't forget as people get older or they abused their hearing, they are not able to hear higher frequencies as well as a younger person, so their hearing is different but I get your general premise.
No ignorance here, I have owned many subs to include Emotiva, Vandersteen, Rel among countless others to include my current SVS SB4000. I have had at least 3 different Rel models and I know what Rel does well and what it doesn't.
Yes, I used Auto Room correction and the basic subwoofer crawl before that. I have used Autocorrection for home theater, but I have used regular microphones and other programs to tell me if the Autocorrection was correct and I use a mic and software for two-channel, which is where my primary listening is done and I have a separate home theater and 2 channel system.
Room correction helps to give you a visual perspective to match what you are hearing. This helps to quickly solve problems and along with Acoustic Room Treatment, this will solve the problem quickly and give you uniformity in your results.
I no longer own Rel because I listen to all different types of music and I found that to get anywhere close to the SVS SB4000 that I would have to spend three to four times the price. The SVS SB4000 along with room measurements and their phone app allows you to adjust the sub to whatever you want it to be and I use the SVS SB4000 in a 2 channel setup and will be buying more in the future.
The SVS SB4000 has functionality that you don't get from Rel and I use Mono-blocks with a single sub and on the Rel it can be done, but it isn't supported. So I stand by my statement, is Rel a good sub? yes, but is it the best sub given all factors, like price and overall performance, no.
I have friends with Rel subs and their system sound amazing, but they put in the work to get it that way. I have heard Rel's upper-end line of subs, and they are good. We have the tendency to knock things both low end, mid or high end that we have never heard, which is cheating by reaching a result without doing the work.
I have built up relationships with Audio Dealers to the point where I can take out equipment that most people will never even see, let alone use. I have been involved in audio since 1985 and have owned many systems and work in video and audio production, so I know audio. I rule nothing out, but I won't knock a good product just because of its price and I'm not afraid to call a bad product bad regardless of its price.
@@sidvicious3129 sure thing, luckily, our hearing in the lower frequencies isn't nearly as affected by aging :)
I just know the rewards of a properly integrated essentially high end performance subwoofer (anechoic +-2dB 20 to 120Hz, inaudible group delay performance, peak output over 108dB SPL at 2m).
When you hear that church air pressure you know you got real low end
@@Gamez4eveR I agree with you regarding the rewards, I spent two months between work getting things set up properly and when I play certain music, I know when to make very minor adjustments by use of the cellphone amp to achieve the desired goal, especially with Classical, Reggie, hip-hop, Jazz, Rock, and Heavy Metal. The goal is the output and natural bass output, so we agree.
@@sidvicious3129 I have missed the updated content of your original reply, but have read it now and it makes me happy that we seem to agree on this.
I am much younger (25) but I've been obsessed with audio since I was 3 since my dad was obsessed with it at the time and took me to a variety of studios and hifi showrooms. My parents are also both professional musicians and I've been classically trained as an accordionist and pianist since I was 7, I also had a bit of an adventure as a high tenor in a semi professional classical choir, so I do honestly think it's not too much to say that I can at least somewhat trust my ear when it comes to sound.
I went through a variety of differing views in my young life, and have ended up with strong preferences towards the combination of objective measurements, subjective impressions, and discovering how said measurements impact said impressions.
I have a very humble setup consisting of well equalises Yamaha HS7 studio monitors - without EQ their tonality is harsh, luckily thanks to relatively good directivity, fixing on axis flaws translate off axis and we get an objective improvement at the listening position regardles of environment. Any more research that I do regarding this matter seems to only further bolster it so I'm quite confident in this.
I myself have used them in a nearfield configuration for years and having recently switched to midfield, I myself have experienced, at least subjectively since I don't yet have a measuring mic, the EQ indeed seems to hold the same improvements in the vastly different layout (we're talking 90cm from tweeter to ear to nearly 3 metres).
But that's the easy part. Now comes the hard part: I have a Monolith 12 THX subwoofer. Upgraded from a Yamaha HS8S. Compared to the Mono, the Yamaha was borderline plug and play - do a quick crawl, set it, you're done. But it didn't have the output and it didn't have any real extension below 35Hz. So I after literal weeks of obsessive research I landed on the Mono 12. Currently using EqAPO for EQ and a Behringer crossover, but that's suboptimal and I will upgrade to most likely a balanced MiniDSP Flex.
I think I got it to sound "good" after a month of trial and error. I now believe that all music benefits from a true flat-down-to-20 subwoofer. Even lute recordings. That breathtaking pressure is very difficult to describe.
I still have: a better dsp, a second subwoofer for better chances against physics and room treatment to get done with before I consider upgrading my monitors :D
Nemo, spot on as usual, couldn’t have said it better myself. Having owned SVS since late 90s I’ve also graduated to what real, articulate clean bass that Rythmik provides. Seamless integration with mains give the illusion the hidden speakers are much bigger than in reality. Keep on doing what you do brother, much love.
thanks wolverine!
@@NemoPropaganda studio subwoofer vs Rythmik Audio subwoofers? Which will have highest sq? Genelac 7382a vs Rythmik Audio F18?
@@NemoPropaganda studio subwoofer vs Rythmik Audio subwoofers? Which will have highest sq? Genelac 7382a vs Rythmik Audio F18?
@@NemoPropaganda studio subwoofer vs Rythmik Audio subwoofers? Which will have highest sq? Genelac 7382a vs Rythmik Audio F18?
@@josealfredfernandes I got 6 messages from you today in my email, you're gonna have to join the free discord if you want to communicate that often. UA-cam comments isn't really convenient for me for extended conversations. Link is in all the newer videos.
i’ve got a pb-1000 and I was super impressed with the quality and extension. The linearity was good enough that I use it to check mixes and even make music sometimes in my studio. my reason for upgrading is I think I want a little bit tighter/accurate/punchy sound, and hoping I will get more even coverage with a sealed. i’m between the sb-1000 pro - sb-2000 pro hopefully dual.
SB will play tighter than PB but PB will have a thicker bottom end.
My sb-1000 pro comes in the mail today. I will give you my opinion after I watch endgame.
So far I can tell you that my sb 1000 pro has a lot more bang than the sennheiser ambeo sub I had. Which I returned because because of distortion at the top end. But right now I wish I knew the right tuning on the Svs app to cut out some of the harshness. I would say I had like how detailed the sennheiser ambeo sub was in comparison to this one. But I just couldn’t get over the popping of the ambeo sub at top end.
This is a fantastic video! So simple yet so profound. Bravo!!!
thank's SVD, I appreciate that!
Love this video, keepin it real as always - couldn’t agree more about the unnecessary bipolar community.
Thank's Omar!
I wonder what kind of subwoofer I am...
You're a beautiful subwoofer...
😂
Great video. We have been going down the rabbit hole of reading opiniated reviews & forums without any point of reference. It has been confusing. If only we could spend a week with each woofer it would become very easy. Alas, one has to do some online research and reading. And what a wave of polarized opinion we encountered. This video gives some idea of the different perspectives and really helped clarify things. So, thanks for your candour and clarity of thought.
hey rope if you want to join the free discord we can probably help you pick something, we'd just need to know your intended use, budget, pair or single, size limitations, etc.... Here is the discord link: discord.gg/3PkFQf4y6Z
Great video👍👍👍 my problem is I don’t know which I want, need to audition! Definite food for thought
that's part of the fun of this hobby though, learning what you like :). i didn't know how much i loved smooth speakers until i got the Buchardt S400.
“I hate you.”
Hahaha, love it!
REL subs have made me change my mind about what I’m looking for in a sub 👉🏾 nuanced, subtle, speedy and detailed bass. Plenty of great subs available for different preferences.
Exactly, there is no right or wrong, I really think I might experiment with a ported sub next. I know many will cry blasphemy but I have to try it again.
@@NemoPropaganda awesome. Somebody’s always gonna be mad about what you do. Do it anyway and don’t be bothered 😅
@@cocoj3194 dude seriously I had to block someone last night lol. These damn audio-extremists think they are like gods of audio lol...
@@NemoPropaganda oh wow! It’s sad that the comment section gets so toxic sometimes. We should all just be enjoying this hobby and learn from each other’s experiences.
@@cocoj3194 I totally agree bro.
Great analogy! I agree with you and I have been in both camps over the years. I have had many subwoofer over the years including the Infinity Servo Statik 50 years ago, 24 inch Hartley in a custom enclosure, M&K, Polk and probably some I forgot. I lean more to the REL camp these days as I am more of a music listener and I prefer ribbon speakers, hence I want a fast subwoofer that integrates well and disappears into my system. I think many listeners today are more into home theater and are looking for greater slam. P.S. Nothing wrong with that.. your taste your money👍
Hey John, totally agree!
Great review. I presently have two Svs Pb 4000s. I’m moderately happy with them but I’m looking for more articulation and quality of bass. I just find them a little one notey. I have a dedicated theater and I thinking about replacing them with two Rel 1508 predators. Would love to get your thoughts on this.
Per other reviews I've seen and my own experience with the 1205 vs the sb2000 the predators should have more articulation. You'll be gaining 24% cone surface area while losing 33% of your wattage. That's a fair trade in my opinion. I think with the increase in surface area you'll find more of that rumble experience at all volume levels but especially at lower volumes and the difference in wattage is a moot point as I have a sneaking suspicion that the REL driver has higher sensitivity and lastly REL being REL you kind of just expect to have more articulation. Since they offer an In home trial you can just buy 1 from Adorama or REL directly and give it a whirl, if it's not up to your standards just ship it back :)
The REL 1508 is onsale for $1000 right now at adorama. If its not showing up there check the link in the recent post on slickdeals
I went from SVS which were great subwoofers, had alot of fun with them to REL, however I will never buy another SVS subwoofer as long as there are subwoofers like REL around. They are Just two different sounding subwoofers and one brand floats my boat more than the other.
God bless, that's what this is all about, finding out what we like :)
Yep, same, switched from SVS to Rythmik. Night and day! Rythmik sounds dope. Goes deep but super clean too.
@@rckrckrckrck Yeah I'm digging the Rythmik sound so far, it really is odd with all the experience I have I literally cannot tell bass from the speakers vs bass from the sub, it just sounds like it's all coming from the same place.
Just purchased a couple of Rel t7i subs a couple of days ago, upgrading from a kef ls50 with dual tzero setup to a ls50 and dual t7i setup, can't wait until they arive!
@@b0ltus Nice! My friend has the a dual T5i LS50 setup, it sounds pretty good, the t7i should sound even better and fuller.
To the speech at the end of the video: Amen, brother! 🍻
Hey dude great video.what speakers do u have on the stands and what do they sound like
Buchardt S400, possibly one of the most reviewed speakers on YT :) should be many reviews out there.
Couldn't have put it better myself, very well made review!
Thank's Moot!
If you are not having fun with your music you need to pick a new hobby.
“ I hate you.” LOL! It’s reminding me of people just looking at jthe numbers. How about how it sounds to you? If you like it, that’s all that matters.
Exactly bro! It’s like food, personal taste matters a lot :)
Reminds me of one channel that compared Rels and SVS subs from the same category of price. SVS had 3 times more power in terms pf watts and was a bigger woofer but Rel could get to much higher desibels without distorting. Specs are overrated these days especially when looking at RELs!
You have best understanding of subwoofers I ever seen at UA-cam.
Thank you Matt :)
Great video, I’m running a pair of Buchardt S300 MKII with a Rel T9x on my 2.1 setup and love it!
Shortest comment I'll ever make.... Dedicated home cinema? SVS is your brand. Dedicated audiophile system? REL is your brand.
I dunno, a pair of HT-1508 would make for a wicked theater 😃
@@NemoPropaganda I've never heard a REL lol my comment was really an attempt at personal growth regarding posting shorter youtube comments. 😂😂
@@yamafanboy Ahahahaha, you and me both lol
Rel customers buy a subwoofer not to hear it.
Yes exactly! People like different things. In my home I don't want to hear the subwoofer, in my car BRING IT ON!!! :D
Interesting watch. Definitely on the Rel side and more so now I'm older. In my youth I would have a big sub in the boot/trunk of the car. Now I have a small one and do my best to get it integrated as smoothly as possible with my mids. Still new to subs in the home. Not yet chosen one but Rel is top of my list
I still have a big sub in the trunk of my car :D I can't help it...
Great review !! Totally agree with your outlook on audio 🙌
I appreciate that!
you did an amazing job explaining this man.. brilliant💯
THank you Erwin, glad you enjoyed it.
Good video man! I like your prospective
Thank you brother, I appreciate you watching the video!
Thank you for explaining the sound signature differences in subwoofers.
Well said my friend, your analogy is spot on. 👍
Thank's Retro! I did my best to think of an experience every man would understand and I knew this would be it, it's happened to all of us :)
Hi.
Loving your videos!. What speaker stands are you using there?
Revel Concerta2 M16 stands
Brilliant! Agree 💯%! Do that myth busting video!
What an honest, down to earth and well informed video. And what a great analogy! Definitely lady #2 (which describes my wife to a tee ❤️). So Rel for me 🙏🏼
You're a lucky man!
You’re EXACTLY RIGHT! “Have FUN and ENJOY your HOBBY”
just purchased two sb3000 for my studio control room. They are amazing in the sound matter. Better than any what i heard before.
Very nice!
ok so little update here. I found svs are sounding the same no matter what material i am playing. They have also big attack and it was fooling me by the beginning. Now i have rythmiks and ... there is no comparision i would not take svs for free .. rythmik sounds like speaker, svs like hammer.
@@MaxiMovier some people like hammers though :) I'm happy you found something you love!!
I really enjoy your honest reviews. Thank you. I bought two SVS 1000 Pros for my 2 channel high fidelity system. They integrate so well I have to sometimes check to be sure they are on. When the program calls for low-end, they deliver in a seemless way thanks to the excellent adjustability. For me, these are great. Maybe if I heard an SQ subwoofer in direct comparison I might notice, but I'm happy with the 1000 Pros.
integration is like other aspects of sound, how much is enough to satisfy can vary from person to person so your needs for integration could be perfect for the SB1000 pro which is a sub that does integrate fairly well, it's my favorite SVS sub!
@@NemoPropaganda I know you have reviewed a lot of subs, and your review of the SVS SB1000 pro was the primary inspiration for me getting them! Thank you.
@@scottbennett3119 I'm happy to hear that and happy you're enjoying them :)
Thanks for explaining. My personal taste would be to have a 2 channel system that has a sub that blends into the system and a home theatre system that thumps and wows. I did start with the SVS PB16 Ultra to do both and eventually will get a smaller 12in Rel for 2 channel audio
Wooo Chris that PB16 is BIG BOY!!!!! I couldn't believe how big it was the first time I saw one in person.
@@NemoPropaganda I was surprised too. It certainly doesn’t blend into a room either. It is a challenge to match it with the speakers but I do love the app on my phone. Just have to constantly be willing to tweak it depending on what’s playing.
@@chrishargreaves6549 i'm not surprised, its so large it's going to have a hard time keeping up with smaller speakers but for theater it's low end authority is absolutely amazing! I'd try plugging 2 of the ports when listening to music (make the change in the app also of course so the sub knows its in 1 port mode) that will help tighten things up for music.
Nice video ...His car analogy is funny. I am betting some people say they want neither car and will buy another Honda or Toyota product that is polar opposite of the German brands
Thank you!
Thanks for the review Nemo. After staying in the SVS camp with the PC 2000. I am planning to go for the REL HT 1508 for a change. Nothing wrong with SVS though. My tastes are 50:50 for music/music
I still miss the low end of my PC2000 but since your jumping to a sealed 15" you'll probably be fine. I went to a sealed 12" so naturally I had less authority/rumble in the ultra low regions. I do love the tighter presentation and quicker response of sealed models though.
Thanks a lot for the advice. Sorry meant 50:50 music/movies. I like your reviews as they are spot on & helps people like us. I too am contemplating missing the low end of the PC 2000 after going for the REL. Really love that effortless rumble of the SVS for movies but I guess I need to experiment on the music side too.
Out of curiosity would like to know which one you preferred for your tastes for music , the REL 1205 or the RythmikF12SE ?
@@nitinkanchan5294 I appreciated the hell out of each subwoofer and I still own both of them however at roughly $400 more expensive the F12SE is the better unit but neither was 100% suited to my personal taste of "perfect". The Rythmik came close but it's just 1" too big to look right in my room and didnt have the slam I wanted but god damn did it integrate flawlessly! It's beautiful don't get me wrong but aesthetically it was just a smidgen too big and considering I'm a low volume listener (75-80db) I will never use the capability of either sub so I'm playing with smaller subs now like the KC62, REL T5, and SVS Micro.
Thanks a lot Nemo for the insightful reply.
This video is amazing on so many levels!
Thanks Chris, I appreciate that.
Great review ,honest ,informative and very true nice one.
Hey Glenn, thank you for the kind words.
I love that the JL Fathom suggests that you leave the crossover at 120 hz. Musical as hell!
I like them too but the damn price... ugh...
I think they do that because the LFE channel can contain data up to 120hz although I'm not sure modern mixes do that. I have a F113 and I have my processor crossover set at 65hz but I leave the low pass on the sub at 120. If you lower that low pass filter then that data will not be sent to any speakers.
Omg this video is awesome 👏 thanks for making it and no bs. I have an svs will two but my ears feel like they are fatigued over the bass. Like it’s awesome deep and loud but I miss some of the mid bass. I might go within another company. Svs is good but I’m not about super loud low anymore.
Glad I could help! What you are describing is the heaviness that comes with SPL style bass, some people love it while some prefer the lighter tone of SQ style bass. Which SVS subs are you running? You might be able to play around with the PEQ settings to bring in some more midbass a la REW trial and error.
@@NemoPropaganda I have the classic pb13 ultra with the new amp that has the app control to it and I also have the classic pb12 plus with the digital amp but not the one with app control.
@@angelboy12 okay yeah, larger ported subs from any brand generally won't have tactile midbass. What they will give you is damn near unmatched output between 20-40hz which is where a lot of movie effects are. I have a friend who was running dual PB16 and he too was missing the tactile bass so he added an SB2000 Pro next to his couch for that fast hard hitting bass and it worked out really well but if you want a different presentation that's more SQ style where the bass is less the focal point and not really drawing your attention while still having the strong output you have currently you're going to spend some dollars. You'd want something like dual sealed 15's from one of the SQ brands and that's just not cheap. Bass is constant game of compromising this for that. I'd try turning your bass down just a dB and seeing if that helps before you unload a bunch of cash.
@@NemoPropaganda ok true. I play with the equalizers in the subs app. Hoping that will help. :-)
@@angelboy12 hopefully it helps, turn down the volume a bit on the sub, turn down the crossover a few hz, etc...
Another great video, thanks.
Interesting you have this opinion and I agree with you. Recently I headed down to my hifi shop for a cable and my friend who runs the shop told me I had to listen to a couple of songs on the fancy system. He has two towers of three REL subs either side of the mains. Long story short I was a bit disappointed as the eye candy didn't match the 'feel'.
At home I run one SVS sub (sealed) with my ATC mains and the presence is more alive, even though it's also backed right down so you hardly notice it. The SVS breathes life into music and gets the foot tapping and smile going. I didn't quite get that with the REL and I think I know why now, its my taste. The SVS suits how I like to experience my music.
While I'm here I would like to say that if you add isolators (like my isoacoustic gaia2) under your mains and sub/s then be aware that the floor won't shake. If you like the floor shaking as part of the experience then don't add them. Yes the isolators make the voices 'real' but the physical vibration through the feet and bum is gone no matter the volume.
Hell yeah brother, I'm happy you found the sub you love :)
Perfectly put, 👍. This applies to almost anything in life. There is no perfect subwoofer, only is it perfect for you is all that matters
man... i love your channel! your analogies are great!! got the B&W ASW608 because of your recommendation and absolutely love it in my second stereo setup! would love to get a nice musical sub for my Q acoustics concept 40s in my living room (room is about 27X24 sq. feet). Any recommendation, up to $1200? will only be listening to music...mostly jazz and classical.
keep up the great work!
Which side of the camp are you on? Do you want the disappearing subwoofer?
@@NemoPropaganda yes...no question! i would love a "disappearing subwoofer"
@@themastroiannis a single Rythmik F12SE would be great, the REL Predator 1508 is on sale right now for $1000 from Adorama and the HT-1205 is on sale for $449 so a pair of those would be killer too!
@@NemoPropaganda hey! thanks so much! could not find the HT-1205 at the sale price you mention. what a pity; at that price, it would have been awesome! maybe i will go with Rythmik and will let you know how it goes...
@@themastroiannis totally up to you but i do have an extra one if you want it. Shoot me an email if interested. The F12SE is certainly a step up though.
spot on brother. nice video, thanks for the input
Why the hell did I not know of this Channel. Fuking fantastic reviews man. New Sub here
My man, welcome aboard!! I swear in my vids sometimes so YT doesn't like to promote me :(. But I think swearing is caring :D
@@NemoPropaganda your videos are simple, honest, Intuitive and bang on. I just bought a SVS SB 3000 and it will be shipped tomorrow. Was struggling with the ported PB3000 size (Huge). So hope the SB can give me a nice punch
@@kazuto1905 oh dude, you'll be good, unless your room is ginormous the SB3000 is insanely capable of serious output. I owned one for a little over a year and IMO it's just about as much bass as you can have in that form factor without spending a crazy amount more money. It likes to be played loud and will reward you with lots of output with really good speed.
So true. I almost purchased the SVS from reviews but ended up purchasing the REL RT/1508 due to size and sale price to replace my good old Velodyne from the 90s. That Velodyne shook my room and pounded my heart while playing music or watching movies. The REL HT was meant for my home theater system but it ended up with my stereo system after I paired the CW IV with SET tube amp. The REL didn't have the impact and awe effect as the Velodyne but it integrated so well I never noticed the sub at all.
The REL HT series are meant for home theater and T/X series are for two channels music. I almost brought the T/X for the CW IV and put the HT on the theater system. When I asked if the T/X 7 or 9 better for my CW IV. REL advised me to stay with the HT because it is a better match for the high sensitivity of the CW IV. REL cares for its customers more than a sale.
REL not only manufactures one of the most musical subwoofers you can buy it is also one of the most honest and carrying companies around.
The Predator at the sale price is tough to beat, congrats my man!
Thanks for the honest review. With over 50 years as an audiophile I have become tired of the use of anthropomorphism in attempts to describe audio gear. But I did appreciate your attempt. As least you did not stoop to the one thing I find worse than fingernails across a chalkboard, that is the worn out phrase used by some reviewers in almost every review “punches above its weight”. So thanks also for that.😊
Hey Score, thank you for the kind words!! I've reviewed many items, I have yet to find more than a couple of products that I felt were priced lower than their performance so we're on the same page there! And honestly the few that "punched above their weight" had a caveat that made the price make sense. A shortcoming here or there that was easy to overlook. Polk Reserve for exmample sounds amazing, but you can hear the price in the tweeter, its treble will not outperform anything more expensive, but its midrange might, it's all give and take :).
SVS SB-3000 integrate very well for audio. I can't tell if they are on, until I put my hand on the enclosure.
Hi Jim, that's awesome, you might have speakers that pair super well with them. Just curious do you happen to have a larger room? I've always felt the SB3000 shined brightest when it was cranking in a larger room.
Hey! Great video, got me really thinking! I am still at the drawingboard with the sub. It will be for a small room which is brick shaped.
I saw a video from darko and I would like a KEF ls50 meta with bluenode 2021 and adding a sub to it! Since I don't want to spend another too many euros on sub for this room size and setup, I don't know if a smaller REL would do the job since I haven't heard one in person, nor and svs one. In my country it's a small market for this, they dont have pre setup rooms and systems for this you could try out anytime.
Usually I'm more into bass heavy music like electronic or hip hop, everything else comes after.
Would the smallest svs 1000 pro or tel t5x do the job for a small room like I have? 3,5 x6 meter maybe, listening would be like 2,5 meters away. I still want to listen to other type of music of course and harmony is what I'm shooting for.
BTW, I'm a Mercedes guy
Hey brother, mmm mercedes huh? Okay no problem you're still cool :). So your room is small to medium size it sounds like. I think you should email REL and ask them if 1 T5X will be enough, I'm not sure honestly as I reviewed a pair and I worry 1 may not be enough for your rooms volume. I don't know how tall your ceilings are but if they are 9ft we're looking at about 1800 sq ft, I would instead consider something like the REL HT-1003 instead with it's larger driver and more power or even HT-1205. The SVS SB1000 Pro with it's 12" driver and 325w RMS will of course be big enough for your space unless you listen very loud. Electronic music can be very demanding, for a single sub in your room the HT-1003 is the smallest I recommend.
@@NemoPropaganda Thanks, I'll get back to you with precise room sizes, if that's okay!
Honesty at its best! Great video
Thank you bro!
Quick question: do you mean that svs subwoofer has that distorted cabinet vibration which hinder the actual sound ?
Hey Vinayak, no absolutely not! SVS actually makes incredibly robust & rigid cabinets and none of them have any resonance that I have heard, not even their most affordable models. It essentially comes down to moving mass and we can see this in car audio too, we have brands like Focal & Morel that make these light weight subwoofers that play incredibly clean but they can't handle too much power (unless you spend big money). Then we have brands like Digital Design that have a moving mass often times triple that of Focal & Morel but they are capable of extreme SPL but lose that lightness that adds a certain character to the sound. It's the same with speakers, a lot of people just don't notice it. Light weight drivers just sound different than heavier drivers.
I just found out your channel and I kinda like it :-) I would like to know what damping settings are you using on Rythmik subwoofer and why? To my understandings this sub should be very dynamic in terms of impulse response due to servo control. But that depends on your settings, right? So if you compare it on low settings with REL, which is no servo control, then it can be less defined and vice versa . But I never heard servo control in my life. But in my next project I will use two GRci kits to build subs in wall. Along with coaxial drivers with DSP amplification.
I use high damping because it's what Rythmik recommends.
@@NemoPropaganda What has tighter bass, a Rythmik with high damping or a REL? Since REL doesn't have damping settings would you say it's closest to Rythmik's high setting?
@@Slickman2006 I haven't really made that comparison, both are so good with respect to all the SQ characteristics the setup options are just different. You can get either one to sound incredible. The biggest difference is the larger F12 will of course extend much lower and play louder.
I got a real t7i used on offer up for 600. It’s so Fucken sweet. Using the high level input it sounds so seemless. It’s fun messing with the dials depending on the album lm playing. It knows how to act depending on the genre. I got it to go with the klh model 5’s . It really rounded out the experience. Like a nice rug that ties the room together
that's a great way to put it! A well setup sub really does bring it all together.
Well articulated conversation…. Thx. Need more folks who can entertain such a nuanced and deliberate dialogue…
that's a hell of a compliment, thank you for the kind words!
Hmmm. Not sure that I agree totally with the differences between REL and SVS. I think that you can dial in an SVS to be well integrated, but it takes a bit more effort, in terms of setting the crossover and the -db. My own challenge was that I was adding a sub to floor standers that already went down to mid 30’s. I was just looking for extra extension below that. An SVS 3000 can do that. Doing it with a REL is challenging without a lot more $$$
Kind of like I said in the video though just because REL and Rythmik integrate well it doesn't mean SVS doesn't integrate good also it's just not as good by direct comparison. You can setup a $700 HT-1205 to integrate perfectly in about 10 minutes.