💥Download Enlisted for FREE and get your bonus! ► Use my link - playen.link/arch #ad Tarkov obviously had to update their recoil when I finished the video... & sorry for the delay on the video. It got corrupted while rendering and I lost a bunch of footage
This is where VR really shines through, trying to aim and move with a rifle is much more cumbersome and difficult than a pistol, especially in games like Pavlov I find myself favouring pistols over larger firearms like shotguns and rifles
You could simulate it in M&K games with a lot of bloom if you have to move your weapon very quickly and more than like, 45 degrees(or disconnect your aim point from where the gun is pointing), but I feel like a lot of people would complain. The only type of game I've seen that controls how quickly a heavy weapon can turn are in tank/mech combat, where the limitations of the turret drive speed basically stop large cannons and heavily armored turrets from spinning on a dime, while smaller tanks and their lighter guns can generally get around faster, and also spin their turret faster too.
@@Appletank8 escape from tarkov has a mechanic called "ergonomics" in the game, basically a numeric value given to a gun which indicates how easy it is to handle. A gun with low ergonomics will sway in your hands more when aiming, it lags behind slightly when moving point of aim quickly, takes slightly longer to do things like reload or aim down sights etc. Pistols tend to have much higher ergonomic values than rifles or other large weapons, giving it a slight advantage in how quickly you can react to seeing someone and flick to their head. Guns can also be customized to improve their ergonomics and that does allow some rifles to have as high ergo as pistols tho so it's not a perfect system as it is right now.
@@justcallmenoah5743 this is also how Cataclysm Dark Days Ahead and Metal Gear Solid (3-V) handle the difference between larger and smaller guns; while Cataclysm represents an "aiming speed" in time units (being a turn based RPG rather than an FPS) it tends to make the somewhat weaker pistols a very good choice in a tight space - they're quiet, small, light, and you can draw and aim quickly when encountering an unexpected monster. Metal Gear Solid actually reduces your aiming/turning speed with heavier weapons in 4 onward, and still does so in first person in MGS2 and 3; further, while you can still use your handgun while holding a human shield or carrying someone in MGS, you cannot use a rifle that way - bringing in the "free hand" considerations from this.
There's gonna be a game that revolves ( pun intended ) around Arch's gun balancing videos, it's gonna be unique that you can shoot a pistol while reviving, a realistic shotgun mechanic and a sniper's unique charge mechanic and range balance.
I've recently been thinking of the sad truth that there are little bits and pieces of what would be the best game in the history of the world just stuck in obscurity never to be combined by the right developer. Imagine skyrim but the dragons use the nemesis system from Mordor. The nemesis system added to any game would increase its awesome ratio immediately. Including games like Barbie Dress Up and those fake UA-cam ad roller games
@@sweypheonix Sadly the nemesis system is currently copyrighted so unless someone gets permission to use it, we aren't seeing it anytime soon. I really hate the current copyright system right when it comes to things like these.
@@netherwarrior6113 that's so true but is it not screaming out for someone to take it, change two things, and skirt the copy right? I hate it for valid copyright holders but this is same as when the concept of having a mini game during load screens was taken out in the 80s and we never saw a game with one again. Some concepts shouldn't be allowed to be copywritten because they are so broad they stifle innovation. It's similar to the idea that any smartphone copyright shouldn't block all other smartphones from being produced.
SWAT4 had a damage system where if your arms get damaged your aim is affected, and often you end up switching to a pistol when your arm gets hit because you just can't aim with your primary.
@@macromage i mean, yeah but... The technique for throwing a bullet and a knife are VERY different. Throwing a bullet required mostly back energy, a tactical axe persay needs spin and back energy and a knife... Well you throw it with little spin because it is NOT aerodynamic. A bullet=aerodynamic high velocity knife. They're BUILT for high velocity, a knife (unless it's a throwing one) isn't built for that (and generally it's harder to throw a knife anyways) essentially, knife = hard to throw slow non aerodynamic projectile Bullet = fast af, don't throw, just shoot, aerodynamic projectile.
Really like the idea of the "extra hand" concept. Interestingly enough I often both play support and gravitate towards pistols. I used to buy nades and a pistol on buy rounds if I couldn't afford a rifle in CS. The newest COD just added a vest that replaces your primary weapon slot with another secondary weapon slot and gives you a bunch of free perks. I already think the pistols are kinda OP in the game and now they're getting a huge buff.
A good perk for Handguns would be: Fast Nades. The ability of taking out a Granade with your secondary hand, pulling the pin and throwing, WHILE aiming with your pistol, but the recoil is increased while you throw. That way the typical "I put my weapon away to toss a nade and the enemy pushes in that second" moment gets compensated.
It's kinda like siege shields. You get protection and a pistol. It is also balanced by having to expose your head to shoot. Also, you get the option to run in. Blitz Has the blind so he can get closer and shoot you without getting headshoted, and Montage can explain his shield for more support. And Fuze has Ak-12 so he can choose to be a Fragger or support.
@@C0lon0 I hate it too, I wish Ubi didn't nerf everything, at this point it's becoming a bland room clearing sim. And on defense it's holding one angle to try to get a kill.
Another thing that would be relevant in PvE games is concealability if you have a "social stealth" system. Something I find annoying in games like Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Starfield is that the inventory system allows you to somehow have long guns conveniently carried without raising suspicion. On the other hand, the Hitman games give pistols a clear role as the weapon you can easily holster and walk around with.
I mean this could be attributed to some games but both Adam Jensen and Your character in starfield have non nefarious reason to be carrying assault rifles, Adam lives in Detroit as a security guard, and your character in starfield lives in space.
@@DorkN313 There are plenty of non nefarious reasons to be carrying an assault rifle, but what I really ment was the people in detroit are probably just used to military looking augmented men holding assault rifles.
PAYDAY 2 has similar system as well. You still can bring AR's, but modding for concealment would make most of them less viable than high damage pistols/SMG's in stealth.
I wasn't watching the video, just listening at the time, and by the time I realized that it was the ad, he said thank you to the sponsor and continued on
Arch, we need more! I had a whole idea about making a game with all the balancing ideas in these videos, but I can't do that when all you've done is snipers, shotguns, and pistols.
To expend the ammo in your primary, pull out your pistol and finish them off, winning the firefight... The clutch feeling is one that stays with you. But when you take a pistol out and clean up the match? That's when you have a story. The pistol; simple yet effective.
Hey arch could we get melees and armour next please (Maybe even healing)? Love your content and would love to see more of those meta discussions like this!
@@OfficialArchhealing is probably a problem, honestly... Overtime healing, more balanced, requires you to really take cover, but something like a stim in a fast paced shooter also makes sense. Or perhaps overtime healing, when you just stay still.
this reminds me of half life alyx where I mostly picked the pistol over any other gun, just because it was so fun. thank the director to give me so many pistol bullets because i played pistol so much
Honestly, this doesn't likely seem like a chance to happen, but if Arch ever covered melee weapons, and how they have changed throughout games and their weird consistencies across games, that would be a really neat video.
@@homeygfunkoffacherryfruitl4971 Interestingly, many older games the melee weapon was a case of "Strictly for starting enemies" to preserve ammo and once you get your fourth weapon, you pretend the weapon doesnt exist yet in a game called Turok Evolution, the melee weapon is never useless, as long as the enemy is on the ground, you can effectively do harm, infact I think it does a lot more damage than rockets. You may say "oh there maybe some enemies that are freaking dangerous to approach and yes, you are correct, that does not mean they are immune to the poison arrow, if the arrow isn't killing them, they are busy vomitting.
Just a small comment on the Tarkov recoil model, in case someone else hasn't already mentioned (and I'm sure you may already know if you are an avid fan), but the game has just had a huge update to certain mechanics, including the recoil one. Early thoughts are that it's incredible, although how that balances late game with 'meta' weapon builds is to be seen. But that's a digression. In short, pistols and SMGs seem to be 'realistically' balanced regarding recoil now.
Yup, the changes definitely pushed the game's realism forward, so Arch's remark about "horrible recoil changes" kinda stuck in my ear. I really like this series, and it mostly makes sense, but some small things throughout the videos makes me think Arch's knowledge about weapons is based on research, instead of hands-on experience. Not that it matters that much in this context, since we're talking about balancing guns in video games.
@@Ironpine27 Since these videos take a long time to make (script writing, story boarding, animation, editing etc etc) the script was made before the update. The previous recoil change from about .12 to now was universally considered bad and I assume that's what was being referenced, not the current iteration. Hope that helps.
Something I want to note about Ready or Not is that handguns are way smaller. This lets you identify targets faster, see if they have a knife or gun, your gun won't get blocked by walls as easily, etc. If you aim it canted and have a laser on it, it becomes a very viable alternative to the primaries.
yeah Darktide handles this well too. instead of putting the pistol at the bottom of the screen when ADS they hold it at a bit of an angle with one hand, takes up way less of the screen, you move faster when ADS and you sprint faster too. great for melee characters and the vision is important when getting attacked at all sides during a horde. I've seen so many people go down because they tunnel visioned with their rifle. Also you can pull your gun out much quicker when switching from melee which is great when theres a sudden ranged enemy and you can take them out quicker before they can shoot you.
Totally accurate battlegrounds (TABG) had a very nice per-hand handgun/melee/spell/grappling hook system, where you could even have 2 main slots with 2 guns each, AND a single pistol/melee slot, so if you wanted you could have 5 auto revolvers on you to swap between before reloading :D
@@amazingnoo9935 Not removed, but the game is no longer supported, as in most times the servers are empty, you can still play it just fine with enough players i think
I prefer the regular revolver to the auto revolver because there is no fire rate cooldown, meaning you can empty the full mag in a quarter second if you could click fast enough. I've killed full teams with a revolver before.
what i find interesting is that, in ultrakill, the revolver maintains use and is one of the best weapons purely because of it's marksman variant, allowing you to throw a coin and shoot it to kill an enemy within sight, and this simple tool combos with tons of other weapons in the game and there are still 2 other variants you can use and an alt variant with slower fire rate but higher damage if you use the revolver more as a secondary
i really love ricochet alternate, able to wipe out mass lower-class enemies or deal quite a bit of damage to higher-tier ones (granted theres a ceiling)
the pistol/revolver is also just such a nice weapon in general. every weapon has some sort of gimmick that makes them usable in certain scenarios, but the pistol/revolver can be used at all times. its such a like, good general versatile weapon for any situation
I like the way Half-Life balanced its pistol the most. The MP5 has a way higher fire rate but way less accuracy while the pistol is perfectly accurate. Makes it a great utility secondary.
It is also weak when you compare it to other primaries except maybe medic, a shotgun would be better for a close range class like him but it doesn’t suit him well Still better than pistols and smgs
there was an open world zombie survival game i used to play with a cool inventory grid system. for the same inventory space as 1 rifle, you could carry a pistol, food, bandages, and a flashlight. of course, handguns were outclassed in combat by any other firearm, but they were still popular because you could have viable firepower in your pocket, while keeping your hands and back slot free for a fire axe or something. it was an interesting way to get more players to choose a pistol over long guns.
Normally, when you shoot a pistol with iron sights you don't only look through the sights, you have one eye through the sights and one eye able to see around. instead of just adding scopes you could make the pistol with irons semi-transparent with distinct ironsight.
Also, you can play around with the zero of your gun, so that your shots don't land exactly where you aim, but slightly above the iron sight, so you don't cover your target.
I don't think this actually resolves the issue though, pistols feel worse in games than in real life because games very rarely take into account the dreaded 3rd dimension. Guns end up so often being a flat overlay on your screen, you can get right up to a wall with your weapon still in your shoulder ready to fire, but in actuality with my weapon in my shoulder straight forward the closest I can get to the wall is however long the weapon is, if I want to hold tighter to that barrier I have to hold the weapon tighter to my body, something that in games seems rarer than not. In an enclosed space or going through a door I can't just be sideways with the weapon facing forward, I have to transition to a low or high ready, maybe even hold tight, to move sideways and even if I go straight in that might be better because the weapon will appear some distance in front of me alerting someone hiding to my presence before I'm aware of theirs.
Simple solution, add drag to aiming; if you pull a 180, that heavy rifle needs to move with you, and getting your aim back to center will take time. Make the pistol do it faster, making it better for snap shot and 180s.
Please keep up this way of doing sponsorships. Tying sponsorships into the content you are creating, and talking about and critiquing the sponsor, are a great way to make your audience feel respected, while also keeping the sponsor happy and getting paid for all the hard work you put into these videos. Keep it up, can't wait for the next upload!
@@Wingsfanacc Well, and this approach gets you a sponsor segment beside the "main" one that doesn't even get tagged for sponsor block because it's part of the content.
Based on my recent experience in VR shooter, there is one extreme important factor that have not been mentioned: Length / size. When encounter in extreme close or narrow space, long guns can sometimes stuck in the wall (or forced to be held vertically like Tarkov) and unable to pre-aim. This factor can bring pistol as sometimes a great advantage in narrow environment, and could be discuss as a factor. Alao best quote of the day: "I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it." - Arch, PISTOLS: Better Than Reloading
This is a very interesting topic especially in VR or Airsoft, a lot of the things are different like when you have limited ammo, are encumbered by a large primary, get a jam or runout of ammo, when its faster to switch to the secondary than reload, or the fact that you hopefully have two eyes and can aim while being able to see everything else. Also as mentioned in the video they are smaller and less heavy. One other thing of little interest is rotating the item; you only need your wrist while with bigger two handed primary you use both arms. I may have forgotten some stuff about this topic so there is likely more to it, and keep up the good work.
As a game designer, please take everything this guy says with a heap of salt. His videos are mostly for entertainment purposes. Most of the 'problems' he discusses are only there because he either misunderstand certain aspects of design or because he oversimplifies a feature to the point problems start appearing that wouldn't be there if he'd just show the whole picture. Its honestly been incredibly frustrating seeing this man spreading so much false information and half-truths in his past couple FPS design related videos. If you want good information on game design, go look up GDC talks (they're on UA-cam) or look up videos by more well-researched hobbyists like Mark Brown. Its fine to enjoy these videos as entertainment or to get yourself thinking about design, but if you're serious about design there's more to be learned by figuring out what he's wrong about.
@@HD_HerpDerp all i saw in the solution was use the semi auto glock or the 1911 if you want a slightly better option, all other pistols are worse than the primary options, also 2 meme weapons to dunk on new players with
@@ryelywall228 See, this is part of what I'm talking about. I don't think HALO players would agree that pistols are necessarily worse than other weapons because the Magnum in those games is notoriously good. Also the way he described these 'meme weapons' they would be ridiculously unbalanced in your run-of-the-mill shooter. He makes these sweeping statements about the way 'things are' when he hasn't played a wide variety of games and he's talking about game design from the perspective of a player, not a dev. I mean hell, his first two videos were mainly about the way sniper rifles and shotguns are balanced in Counter-Strike (while acting like these are generally applicable), claiming they're unbalanced without even making a single mention of the whole economy system which is a core balancing factor. Then when he finally actually mentions the economy in this video, he just sweeps it under the rug with a 'I'm not an economist'. He's not a game designer either, so why does he feel comfortable talking about that subject with authority but not about in-game economies (which is a part of game design)?
12:55 fun fact: there is a game where they add this kind of customization. They even add the ability to duel wield heavier guns if your character is strong enough Madness: Project Nexus
I've never heard of this. Interesting ooohhhh, it's one of those kind of games with the silly character models. I can't for the life of me remember the first time I saw that style of character. Anyway I'll definitely pick it up on sale.
@@Scroolewse the gameplay is extremely fun, especially in the combat arena mode with a ton of customization can be unlocked by playing the game multiple times
a realistic element that also fits the get out of jail free card type in the video would be the fact that black powder weapons produce a giant cloud of smoke when fired. The term 'fog of war' originally referred to a literal thick fog that would roll across battlefields when these things were in use, that's the whole reason for the brightly coloured uniforms is so you can see who's who
I really like how insurgency sandstorm manages its weapon stats. Every weapon can kill you with one or two shots, usually depending on whether the bullet hit your upper or lower half, anything at chest height or higher is a confirmed kill 80% of the time (except for headshots of course, that's 100%). Armor is pretty much just dead weight and will only protect you once damage falloff comes into the equation, or if the caliber is small enough. Then again, it'd only take like an additional shot or two to take you down. Keeping things equally lethal makes it easier to give handguns a little more protagonism, you're still outmatched by even the shittiest rifle, but if you're a better shot than your opponent then your chances are not that bad, specially in CQB.
Armor helps a lot with protecting from explosives. But you're 100% right it's dead weight for bullet protection. At most, it'll let you last 1 or 2 bullets, assuming it's low calibre.
And another thing that helps insurgency (both OG and sandstorm) is that it's a generally urban focused tactical shooter, even if pistol is objectively worse on all aspects compared to a rifle or SMG, you mostly use it around corners in snap encounters, pre-aim and first to peek advantages are far more than enough to make them still come out on top.
Another thing I love about Sandstorm's pistols is that they are made more useful due to slow primary weapon reload speeds. In games with fast primary weapon reloads, there is rarely a reason to use your pistol unless you're totally out of primary ammo, but in Sandstorm it's critical to get good at smoothly switching to your pistol once you realize your main gun is dry. Also, Sandstorm has a system where your gun's barrel length affects whether or not it can be used when close to objects, and pistols are significantly less clumsy than rifles in CQB.
STALKER realistically puts this to practice as well. An AK-74 will kill a human regardless of body armor at close range, but at longer ranges, even simpler ballistic armor can keep you alive from 1-2 hits
That was legitimately one of the best integrated sponsorships I've seen on UA-cam, and I genuinely enjoyed it rather than skipping it to get on with the video.
I love coming back to this video. The editing is so good and your suggestions for fixing the pistols are also really cool. I also go back to the shotgun and sniper videos but this is definitely my favourite of the 3.
You could also add in a weight mechanic where the less and smaller gear you have, the lighter you are and faster that you are. Having less armor means that you’ll have less health and protection, but you are faster, have a ton more stamina and get hit less. While having more gear means more options, such as heavier armor means more health and protection with being able to use heavier weapons for effectively at the cost of moving fairly slowly. And an idea for next video, you could do a video about lethals, tacticals, medicine or gear. Since they are the smaller but very useful things that can help shape if you win or not. Find a small room that you’re not confident in? Use a flashbang or grenade. In a wide area with small areas to go? A smoke should be able to conceal you. Wounded? Use a medkit which will heal you but takes a while. Need a quick get up? Use morphine and adrenaline, but it doesn’t last very long and if you use too much you’ll start seeing things
To be honest, I agreed with basically everything in this video, but I have to take a little bit of a stance when it comes to Ready or Not. In Reay or Not, the main use of the pistol is as a one-handed weapon to be used with a shield, which instantly makes them balanced, as shields are absurdly good. In addition, when peeking doors, you will often find yourself with a dilemma: do you push the door open after peeking it (which you might do to check for bombs), or do you open the door completely? In a few cases, I have found that it puts me in a much better situation to open the door by pushing it open with my body. And while primary weapons are undoubtedly better in terms of damage, fire rate, accuracy, etc., there is an problem in Ready or Not where your gun will become unusable when you are too close to a wall or door. Your character, instead of allowing the gun to clip through the surface, will instead aim it directly up. However, with a pistol, the range at which this occurs is essentially negligible. This allows you much more versatility in clearing rooms. Loved the video though, keep it up!
12:46 I love that you brought up the idea of mixing and matching different guns when dual-wielding. Halo 2 did this back in 2004, and aside from Halo 3 and Halo 2 Anniversary, I can't think of any other shooter that allows this as an option. It was so much fun to try different combinations of weapons together to see what works really well and what doesn't. I really wish other games tried this out.
Just Cause 2 allows dual wielding with different weapons. I wish it’s sequels kept that feature, because it was really cool holding an SMG in one hand and a compact grenade launcher in the other.
@@amazingnoo9935 I can't believe I forgot about Just Cause 2 when I made the original comment, but that game is another great example of the mechanic done well.
It was possible through cheating in Apex Legends, but that cheat has either been patched or fell out of favor because of how blatant it is. It would be cool as a legitimate mechanic though.
I am honestly shocked nobody here has brought up Hunt Showdown, a fantasy cowboy style fps with PvPvE gameplay. almost half the guns in Hunt are pistols, mostly revolvers, and they are almost all just as important as your primary weapon if not more so. some of them straight up ARE primary weapons! Honestly the way Hunt Showdown handles it's handguns could be an entire followup video to this in and of itself! Anyway, loved the video, looking forward to more like it in the future!
Came to comment this, really works with how the ammo stacking works, especially with stuff like the sparks pistol! The whole ammo thing is an entire different breakdown.
My favorite instance of proper handgun balancing is Mass Effect 3, where lighter guns reduce your ability cooldowns. I went from using mostly assault rifles to almost exclusively pistols in the switch to ME3.
i love that the "using your secondary hand for something else thing" already exists in VR games like pavlov or contractors cause why wouldn't it, you could hold 2 LMGs even just gotta try and control the recoil
I can’t lie, the sponsor introduction here was the absolute best I’ve ever seen. I was actually engaged with the discussion of how Enlisted’s handguns work instead of having the usual reaction of repeatedly fast forwarding.
10:42 really love this mechanic in stalker,i usually have a pistol to use with a artifact detector,so that if i get attacked while artifact hunting i can use a weapon do defend myself
Hi Arch, In Ready or not , if you have a primary weapon, and your front is blocked by something, you can't aim/ posture it. there's a mechanism in place where if you have a long gun, it will take into account the space in front of you, making pistols very viable for CQB. especially in narrow corridors/ rooms.
He also didn't mention the very thing a free hand (which he mentioned in earlier segment funny enough) offers: Tactical Shield. In a well-coordinated team the utility of having someone take aggro while your teammates flank and neutralize suspects is invaluable, especially when going against HVTs like Brixley, Gerald, Voll (may he rot in hell)
In Destiny 2, sidearms are generally avoided as primary weapons but they do more damage within their effective range. Bungie balances them by giving them steep damage falloff past ~18 meters
Something I would add to the revolvers is that when you draw the gun, there is a small window where, if you hold down the click while drawing, you can immediately take it out and fire 3 or 4 quick shots with high (but controllable) recoil. It's more about reflexes. Maybe it's not realistic, but I think it would be fun. (sorry for typos I don't speak english) 33:46
I have a suggestion for potentially solving the whole "pistol blocks your view" issue that I believe makes justifiable sense. Semi-transparency. In fact, it could apply to most weapons aside from heavies or high magnification scopes. So in most games you ADS by closing one eye, slowing down, and focusing down your scope. Makes sense to line up a target in a rifle or magnified scope, but for a pistol consistently held in a forward position, especially without a scope, its easy enough to move around and keep the gun in a sighted position while moving at less than a sprint. You wouldn't be running around the map with one eye closed, would you? Due to the offset nature of our binary vision, you technically have two fields of view from separate angles that combines to make our vision seem singular, but when using both eyes you can easily see *through* close-held objects. This is actually how professionals are trained to use firearms so that they aren't running around squinting through a scope that blocks 70% of their peripheral vision. In most FPS games, scopes lower the main body of the rifle out of the way already, so I don't think it's entirely necessary to apply transparency there, but for pistols I think giving the player full or even fuzzy vision through the gun would make a lot of sense and provide that little gameplay advantage to an otherwise underwhelming support item. This, combined with free-hand contextual actions/accessories, would be a great step towards making pistols feel more useful for certain situations.
while not trying to be a more realistic modern military shooter, Darktide makes it so they hold the pistols with one hand and aim it at a bit of an angle and it takes up way less screen space.
1:00 That's because in that game, Rainbow Six Siege, that operator's (Caveira) special ability is to be kind of a silent assassin and her pistol is made to have high damage closerange but also having a high damage dropoff so it aligns with other pistols for consistency. So close range her pistol does more damage but for far range I'd pick Rook with his MP5 and 2x scope.
2 minutes into watching my first video from Arch, and I'm hooked. Incredible appeal, simple but intriguing questions, nice music, and a strange and charismatic or atleast happy voice to couple it all. Wow.
Pistol in Ready Or Not is actually pretty useful, because it is short :) In some tight space or doorways, your long gun is more likely to be blocked, stopping you from firing your gun. If you use a pistol, however, you can fire your gun freely in tight spaces, I usually use it while I am attacking some tight corner Well, it can be replaced by smg in this case :P
That was the single best sponsored segment ive ever seen, it was so integrated into the videos premise that I diddnt notice and was actually interested until the end when yo u reminded me with the overlay. Props mate!
i feel like the "interaction thing" you were talking about is something that is way more prevalent in VR games like Breachers and Zero Caliber. Zero Caliber also has the customization down for secondaries where i personally like an SMG as my primary, i carry a scoped revolver as a secondary. It might be an interesting video to see what VR does to the FPS genre.
How about Pavlov? I often played with revolver purely because it does rifle damage. My free hand was holding cocked grenades, the bomb, a knife, healing pills, or even grabbing the magazine of my enemy. And recoil control was unmatched compared to rifles, so I could play deathmatch with no problems at all. A knife in my off hand instantly won me any fight if we both turned a corner. The ability to carry 2 pistols was key to my reload management, and I could hold 2+2 if I included the ones in my hand (-1 since I needed to drop one to reload, balancing!). One more thing that pistols can do? Concealment. I played TTT and I can assure you that guessing who is fooling around and who is carrying the oneshot detective Desert Eagle made subterfuge possible. I literally held my hands up, reached for my waist, and got killed. We had a chuckle in deadchat about how I almost made it to my revolver.
One really interesting case study for pistols in gaming is Isonzo and the WW1 series. Because everyone is running around with bolt actions that take a long time to ADS and ready, the pistols become amazing trench- and objective-clearing weapons. That, coupled with the limited slots for certain roles and weapons, makes the pistols fulfill the primary and secondary niche simultaneously when combined with the equipment system.
32:35 The phantom forces Glock 18 has very bad recoil. At 30 studs, you can kill someone with half a mag, but because of the horizontal recoil causing you to need to mag dump.
Can’t wait to watch this video, thanks for taking the time to bring quality content to us. Will edit after I watch for my reaction :) Edit: Incredible video with a lot of thought provoking ideas. I agree that pistols should be a slightly weaker version of primary weapons with worse ammo capacity, however I still want the choice of it being a primary with a free hand and an ability if I feel like it. My main gripe with pistols today isn’t even the balancing anymore so much as it is the lack of customization.
I think you did not emphasize the barrel length in realistic games. One of the big benefits pistols have in close quarters they do not need to be lowered, plus height over bore when shooting near cover. I could also see additional movement options/speed for taking pistols. I will say good video and I hope you do more!
Honestly the production quality (graphics, animations, etc) and everything on these vids is sooo good. One other thing you (and SummoningSalt) get right is a proper intro sequence (with nice synthwavey music that definitely does not bias me) before the main content. This one was great, keep it up!
I fell in love with your sniper video, and then enjoyed your shotgun video. The fact you made a video for pistols makes me so happy. Cheers for your hard work, and consider me subbed... oh, I forgot I already subbed.
An awesome detail enabled by VR is that the "free-hand" mechanic is built in! Yet another of the details that (I hope) will eventually lead to VR shooters someday being an awesome, innovative way to experience the genre.
I watched every video from you (except this video what I am watching right now) and I have to say that I love your videos!!! I am feeling very comfortable when I am watching them. Big praise to you!
For Enlisted, I think you may have missed a few things about pistols Pistols aren't all built equal. The semi-autos like the C96 and the 1911 and the Hi-Power are blatantly better. More controllable, higher damage and rate of fire. I can't speak for the autos since I don't have any. At lower BRs where most infantry are armed with bayoneted bolt actions. You can use them very effectively in close quarters. And because it takes its own slot, you still have your regular weapons available to you. I regularly use semi-automatic pistols to give my sniper squads assault capability. They can clean house against a player and AI who only has a bolt action and well timed reloads combined with good use of cover can let you pick apart a whole squad. If you die, every soldier in your squad can carry a pistol, so you have more chances. It's fun to John Wick your way around buildings and houses with the 1911. You won't win a straight up fight with a submachine gun but that makes sense, that's thier niche. You can still clean house with pistols against rifle squads. Another niche I've found for Pistols is with Machinegunners. Machineguns in enlisted really slow you down when equipped, so I give my machinegunners Pistols I swap to whenever I need to quickly change positions. They give me some defensive capability while being able to run and move more freely than with the Machinegun. As an aside, you can also fire sub-machineguns from the hatches of tanks. Really useful for surprising sneaky AT players.
the two handed style that can freely managed with any "onehanded" weapon is very fun and can be balanced. A good example is "Totally accurate battle grounds" for it is really fun and often encouraged to use two pistols at once because of the lack of better dmg options as the drops are random. It is obv a joke game but still manages to represent the "what if" factor really well.
One thing I think of is the game Roboquest- and though it is a hero shooter- it does do somthing interesting. The starting pistol has a wepon affix called "sidekick" which fully reloads your unequiped weapon on kill. Quite literally, better then reloading, the drawback being peashooter status.
For revolvers SA/DA revolvers(So cocking a double action revolver) could give the first shot a quick followup so essentially with the revolver you’d get 2 round burst, single x4. Or whenever you reloaded the first shot would be burst again.
After playing Helldivers 2 (like everyone else) I have totally reevaluated my stance on secondaries being useless. Because it has realistic magazines, you want to expend all of your bullets before reloading to not be wasteful. This leads to you entering gunfights with a partially empty weapon leading to you switching weapons. In other games, ammo isn't much of a concern, so you impulsively reload after shooting one bullet which means you are always able to kill your opponent before emptying your mag (unless you are a really bad shot/unlucky/fighting multiple enemies). So really switching to your pistol ISN'T always faster than reloading but it is more economically efficient.
It's really wonderful how you can make such interesting videos out of such (normally) boring topics. Your animations really work great together with your explanations to make a great and interesting product. Thanks for your Videos dude
12:54 TABG has this feature. You can pick a Luger for your left hand and a Glock for your right, or a taser in the left and a flintlock in the right. I forgot to mention the genius trade off. If you have a desert eagle and a Glock 18, you fire each weapon with either the left or right mouse button. This makes it so you can have the high damage of a 50 call and the fast fire rate of the Glock, but you can’t ADS with either of them. This makes the player choose between having 2 guns that could do different things or having one gun that you can aim with. Both options are viable, but some are better than others *in certain situations.* I love this balancing tool and I will probably be adding something like this in my own game.
HUD as an offhand option is definitely a game designing idea. Especially if the player normally would have to swap to their HUD object if they have a 2 hand item equipped.
I think it's interesting to consider how adding a "shield" or other feature that raises the time to kill affects the viability of handguns. In Destiny, the hand cannons are an extremely viable and popular choice among primaries, and the sidearms that were introduced in Destiny 2 were also fairly viable. They managed to feel distinct even though "scout rifles" which were essentially DMRs existed in the game as well.
When you run out of ammo and juke the enemy by retreating and then immediately 180 with the pistol and get the kill is one of the best feelings in gaming
My main issue with pistols in games is that, especially in earlier call of duty games is the 1911 is basically a pea shooter. A good marksman can kill someone with one shot. But yet it's treated like its a smoothebore shooting .22.
Flare Gun should also blind for at least 2 seconds, so you can escape/switch weapon. I personally like a small shotgun as a sidearm and a medium range sniper as main. Great video as always :)
What I think all games should do (that have ads) for all handguns is have them displayed center of frame like in DOOM, but slightly below where your crosshair is instead of the weird and unrealistic off to the side frame thing. Then, when you use your sights you raise the gun slightly. This is done in real life and it’s called a “low ready position” so you can keep your spacial awareness but be able to ready the gun really quick.
I honestly want to see games lean away from the way ADS works right now and back toward relying on just a crosshair. Ironsights on guns aren't always accurate to where the gun's going to shoot because of how the gun is animated, and this is a difficult problem to fix--but if you just _had a crosshair_ as if you always had a red-dot sight on your face, then it would be a nonissue, and the gun's model could be moved much lower to enable a clear field of view.
Destiny does sidearms really well. I don't enjoy them because they kick like a mule on PC, but they are amazing at close range on controller. There's even special ammo sidearms that can 3 tap.
i genuinely love how this channel was most likely founded by the following thought process: "Man all these damn FPS games are SO horribly and unrealistically balanced! If only their balance teams had brains and more then 5 minutes to think about this UGH" and i'm 100% here for it. May you get millions of subs and get some actual changes made in games mate!
![PC Master Race Explained in 9 minutes [Animated]](/img/n.gif)
💥Download Enlisted for FREE and get your bonus! ► Use my link - playen.link/arch #ad
Tarkov obviously had to update their recoil when I finished the video...
& sorry for the delay on the video. It got corrupted while rendering and I lost a bunch of footage
We accept the apology
@@JoAuJan same
I swear i tought this game wuold never be free as how cool this game seemed.
Oh wait since its free it will have its downsides...
Can't wait for a story vid!
@@stoutishvoice4185progression is really really slow eversince they added the merge update its a good update but with alot of downsides
This is where VR really shines through, trying to aim and move with a rifle is much more cumbersome and difficult than a pistol, especially in games like Pavlov I find myself favouring pistols over larger firearms like shotguns and rifles
You could simulate it in M&K games with a lot of bloom if you have to move your weapon very quickly and more than like, 45 degrees(or disconnect your aim point from where the gun is pointing), but I feel like a lot of people would complain. The only type of game I've seen that controls how quickly a heavy weapon can turn are in tank/mech combat, where the limitations of the turret drive speed basically stop large cannons and heavily armored turrets from spinning on a dime, while smaller tanks and their lighter guns can generally get around faster, and also spin their turret faster too.
@@Appletank8 escape from tarkov has a mechanic called "ergonomics" in the game, basically a numeric value given to a gun which indicates how easy it is to handle. A gun with low ergonomics will sway in your hands more when aiming, it lags behind slightly when moving point of aim quickly, takes slightly longer to do things like reload or aim down sights etc. Pistols tend to have much higher ergonomic values than rifles or other large weapons, giving it a slight advantage in how quickly you can react to seeing someone and flick to their head. Guns can also be customized to improve their ergonomics and that does allow some rifles to have as high ergo as pistols tho so it's not a perfect system as it is right now.
you might wanna try Hot Dogs, Horseshoes & Hand Grenades. because their gun selection is pretty awesome.
@@justcallmenoah5743 this is also how Cataclysm Dark Days Ahead and Metal Gear Solid (3-V) handle the difference between larger and smaller guns; while Cataclysm represents an "aiming speed" in time units (being a turn based RPG rather than an FPS) it tends to make the somewhat weaker pistols a very good choice in a tight space - they're quiet, small, light, and you can draw and aim quickly when encountering an unexpected monster.
Metal Gear Solid actually reduces your aiming/turning speed with heavier weapons in 4 onward, and still does so in first person in MGS2 and 3; further, while you can still use your handgun while holding a human shield or carrying someone in MGS, you cannot use a rifle that way - bringing in the "free hand" considerations from this.
@@accounterror5517 i gave it a whirl a while back it wasn't too keen, might give it another go now though
Laughed at the inclusion of a subway surfer cutaway but also unironically found myself watching it. Funny touch
I love visual gags like that
lol
i was so confused when i saw that i was like pls no its too distracting
I wasn't sure it was a joke or not, I actually blocked that part of the screen with my arm.
Heh I was wondering about that too
There's gonna be a game that revolves ( pun intended ) around Arch's gun balancing videos, it's gonna be unique that you can shoot a pistol while reviving, a realistic shotgun mechanic and a sniper's unique charge mechanic and range balance.
I've recently been thinking of the sad truth that there are little bits and pieces of what would be the best game in the history of the world just stuck in obscurity never to be combined by the right developer. Imagine skyrim but the dragons use the nemesis system from Mordor. The nemesis system added to any game would increase its awesome ratio immediately. Including games like Barbie Dress Up and those fake UA-cam ad roller games
@@sweypheonix Sadly the nemesis system is currently copyrighted so unless someone gets permission to use it, we aren't seeing it anytime soon. I really hate the current copyright system right when it comes to things like these.
@@netherwarrior6113 that's so true but is it not screaming out for someone to take it, change two things, and skirt the copy right? I hate it for valid copyright holders but this is same as when the concept of having a mini game during load screens was taken out in the 80s and we never saw a game with one again. Some concepts shouldn't be allowed to be copywritten because they are so broad they stifle innovation. It's similar to the idea that any smartphone copyright shouldn't block all other smartphones from being produced.
I mean for charge tf2 has sniper that has to charge
Left 4 Dead gave players a pistol while incapacitated in 2008.
SWAT4 had a damage system where if your arms get damaged your aim is affected, and often you end up switching to a pistol when your arm gets hit because you just can't aim with your primary.
Thats actually a really good idea
Fallout has a similar system where if you're arm gets crippled, your aim becomes terrible
It’s like that in Tarkov , your head stomach, arms, chest and legs have their own health bars
sick
SWAT 4 is the goat, that game is criminally underrated yet so good and realistic specially for its time
As a wise man once said
"Remember - switching to your pistol is always faster than reloading"
"using your knife is even faster than switching to your pistol"
"knoife the wortormelon"
@@macromage I heard throwing your primary is even faster than switching to your knife
@@JoAuJan might as well just throw the bullets themselves, because "what is a bullet, but a high velocity knife"
@@macromage i mean, yeah but... The technique for throwing a bullet and a knife are VERY different. Throwing a bullet required mostly back energy, a tactical axe persay needs spin and back energy and a knife... Well you throw it with little spin because it is NOT aerodynamic. A bullet=aerodynamic high velocity knife. They're BUILT for high velocity, a knife (unless it's a throwing one) isn't built for that (and generally it's harder to throw a knife anyways) essentially, knife = hard to throw slow non aerodynamic projectile
Bullet = fast af, don't throw, just shoot, aerodynamic projectile.
eating a poptart is faster than reloading
Really like the idea of the "extra hand" concept. Interestingly enough I often both play support and gravitate towards pistols. I used to buy nades and a pistol on buy rounds if I couldn't afford a rifle in CS. The newest COD just added a vest that replaces your primary weapon slot with another secondary weapon slot and gives you a bunch of free perks. I already think the pistols are kinda OP in the game and now they're getting a huge buff.
A good perk for Handguns would be: Fast Nades.
The ability of taking out a Granade with your secondary hand, pulling the pin and throwing, WHILE aiming with your pistol, but the recoil is increased while you throw. That way the typical "I put my weapon away to toss a nade and the enemy pushes in that second" moment gets compensated.
It's kinda like siege shields. You get protection and a pistol. It is also balanced by having to expose your head to shoot. Also, you get the option to run in. Blitz Has the blind so he can get closer and shoot you without getting headshoted, and Montage can explain his shield for more support. And Fuze has Ak-12 so he can choose to be a Fragger or support.
@@xyzzzzzzzzzzzp693siege just became a bullshit game, not anymore a Tom Clancy's game.
@@C0lon0 I hate it too, I wish Ubi didn't nerf everything, at this point it's becoming a bland room clearing sim. And on defense it's holding one angle to try to get a kill.
Another thing that would be relevant in PvE games is concealability if you have a "social stealth" system. Something I find annoying in games like Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Starfield is that the inventory system allows you to somehow have long guns conveniently carried without raising suspicion. On the other hand, the Hitman games give pistols a clear role as the weapon you can easily holster and walk around with.
I mean this could be attributed to some games but both Adam Jensen and Your character in starfield have non nefarious reason to be carrying assault rifles, Adam lives in Detroit as a security guard, and your character in starfield lives in space.
@@MilataB32 non-nefarious reason to carry an assault rifle is an oxymoron
@@DorkN313 There are plenty of non nefarious reasons to be carrying an assault rifle, but what I really ment was the people in detroit are probably just used to military looking augmented men holding assault rifles.
PAYDAY 2 has similar system as well. You still can bring AR's, but modding for concealment would make most of them less viable than high damage pistols/SMG's in stealth.
calling starfield a game is a bit of a far fetch
I love how Arch incorporated the sponsor of the video into the argument, rather than just an interruption to the video. Love your content.
Yeah I really liked that, this is probably the first sponsor segment that I really didn't mind/enjoyed
@@legendaryblob8227one of the few sponsored segments I’ve ever watched and been actually engaged it
I’ve seen a couple of UA-camrs do that in a variety of ways
Either interesting or straight up the funny type of intriguing
I really wish many UA-camrs do the same cause the sponsor would be much more enjoyable
I wasn't watching the video, just listening at the time, and by the time I realized that it was the ad, he said thank you to the sponsor and continued on
Arch, we need more! I had a whole idea about making a game with all the balancing ideas in these videos, but I can't do that when all you've done is snipers, shotguns, and pistols.
To expend the ammo in your primary, pull out your pistol and finish them off, winning the firefight...
The clutch feeling is one that stays with you.
But when you take a pistol out and clean up the match?
That's when you have a story.
The pistol; simple yet effective.
This sounds like one of Ahoy's gun analysis scripts
Hey arch could we get melees and armour next please (Maybe even healing)? Love your content and would love to see more of those meta discussions like this!
Its planned!
@@OfficialArch Hell yes! Thank you so much! Might I enquire as to wich of those are planned and in what order?
@@papakamirneron2514 i don't think he well want to ruin the surprise
@@OfficialArchhealing is probably a problem, honestly... Overtime healing, more balanced, requires you to really take cover, but something like a stim in a fast paced shooter also makes sense. Or perhaps overtime healing, when you just stay still.
Finnaly, melees that actualy do damage and don't just exist to make you faster
This is exactly why in vr I always lean toward pistols
this reminds me of half life alyx where I mostly picked the pistol over any other gun, just because it was so fun. thank the director to give me so many pistol bullets because i played pistol so much
Honestly, this doesn't likely seem like a chance to happen, but if Arch ever covered melee weapons, and how they have changed throughout games and their weird consistencies across games, that would be a really neat video.
i believe he replied to another comment saying a melee weapon video was on the way or something
If so I am so excited@@zombieslayer1468
About to comment the same thing, glad someone talked about it first
We've gone from the days of useless melee weapons like the axe in Quake to melee literally being more powerful than a point blank gunshot.
@@homeygfunkoffacherryfruitl4971 Interestingly, many older games the melee weapon was a case of "Strictly for starting enemies" to preserve ammo and once you get your fourth weapon, you pretend the weapon doesnt exist yet in a game called Turok Evolution, the melee weapon is never useless, as long as the enemy is on the ground, you can effectively do harm, infact I think it does a lot more damage than rockets.
You may say "oh there maybe some enemies that are freaking dangerous to approach and yes, you are correct, that does not mean they are immune to the poison arrow, if the arrow isn't killing them, they are busy vomitting.
Just a small comment on the Tarkov recoil model, in case someone else hasn't already mentioned (and I'm sure you may already know if you are an avid fan), but the game has just had a huge update to certain mechanics, including the recoil one. Early thoughts are that it's incredible, although how that balances late game with 'meta' weapon builds is to be seen. But that's a digression.
In short, pistols and SMGs seem to be 'realistically' balanced regarding recoil now.
Yup, the changes definitely pushed the game's realism forward, so Arch's remark about "horrible recoil changes" kinda stuck in my ear.
I really like this series, and it mostly makes sense, but some small things throughout the videos makes me think Arch's knowledge about weapons is based on research, instead of hands-on experience.
Not that it matters that much in this context, since we're talking about balancing guns in video games.
@@Ironpine27 Since these videos take a long time to make (script writing, story boarding, animation, editing etc etc) the script was made before the update.
The previous recoil change from about .12 to now was universally considered bad and I assume that's what was being referenced, not the current iteration.
Hope that helps.
yh, I was shocked when he said terrible recoil changes at first, it's leagues above the old recoil now
@@Ironpine27 yea no idea what Arch was smoking with that comment.
this guy posts 8 good, high quality videos, and disappears. crazy
Fearless incident
Something I want to note about Ready or Not is that handguns are way smaller. This lets you identify targets faster, see if they have a knife or gun, your gun won't get blocked by walls as easily, etc. If you aim it canted and have a laser on it, it becomes a very viable alternative to the primaries.
yeah Darktide handles this well too. instead of putting the pistol at the bottom of the screen when ADS they hold it at a bit of an angle with one hand, takes up way less of the screen, you move faster when ADS and you sprint faster too. great for melee characters and the vision is important when getting attacked at all sides during a horde. I've seen so many people go down because they tunnel visioned with their rifle. Also you can pull your gun out much quicker when switching from melee which is great when theres a sudden ranged enemy and you can take them out quicker before they can shoot you.
Love seeing an Arch video. His minimalistic approach to videos are always my favourite type of video. Keep doing what you’re doing, Arch!
ahoy did it best
same bro, i love his vid because of it
The damn subway surfers killed me 😭
I agree it gives more of an distinction compared to other youtubers
@@leomuller2841 Sure, but Ahoy uploads once a solar eclipse.
That was the smoothest sponsor ever i almost didnt notice
One that's fun to watch too. And doesn't seem top praising.
he literally tells you it's a sponsored part right after mentioning enlisted.
Totally accurate battlegrounds (TABG) had a very nice per-hand handgun/melee/spell/grappling hook system, where you could even have 2 main slots with 2 guns each, AND a single pistol/melee slot, so if you wanted you could have 5 auto revolvers on you to swap between before reloading :D
Tabg the goat
Was it removed? How come you’re speaking in the past tense?
@@amazingnoo9935 Not removed, but the game is no longer supported, as in most times the servers are empty, you can still play it just fine with enough players i think
I prefer the regular revolver to the auto revolver because there is no fire rate cooldown, meaning you can empty the full mag in a quarter second if you could click fast enough. I've killed full teams with a revolver before.
5 tasers.
what i find interesting is that, in ultrakill, the revolver maintains use and is one of the best weapons purely because of it's marksman variant, allowing you to throw a coin and shoot it to kill an enemy within sight, and this simple tool combos with tons of other weapons in the game and there are still 2 other variants you can use and an alt variant with slower fire rate but higher damage if you use the revolver more as a secondary
*shooting a coin with a railgun*
i really love ricochet alternate, able to wipe out mass lower-class enemies or deal quite a bit of damage to higher-tier ones (granted theres a ceiling)
Not even necessarily in sight. The coin tracks anything *it* sees, and it has 360 degree view.
the pistol/revolver is also just such a nice weapon in general. every weapon has some sort of gimmick that makes them usable in certain scenarios, but the pistol/revolver can be used at all times. its such a like, good general versatile weapon for any situation
@@chillyconmorBlast resistance? Nah no need to approach with a shotgun, you have a revolver!
Range? Revolver while approaching
13:01 Load one with armour piercing and another with explosive rounds and you've got yourself a combo deadlier than any rifle could achieve
🤯
I like the way Half-Life balanced its pistol the most.
The MP5 has a way higher fire rate but way less accuracy while the pistol is perfectly accurate. Makes it a great utility secondary.
The glock also has more damage per round than the mp5, but less dps due to the rate of fire, which encourages switching between the two based on range
the mp5 is just a longer crowbar with a grenade launcher
....And then CS 1.6 made it more complicated when each caliber has its own damage and the guns has its own damage modifiers.
@@johndexterzarate6663 both the glock 18 and mp5 use the same caliber fyi
Spy's default revolver is not weak at all, it packs quite the punch when you consider other classes' health numbers
It is also weak when you compare it to other primaries except maybe medic, a shotgun would be better for a close range class like him but it doesn’t suit him well
Still better than pistols and smgs
Its a good job most spys don't seem to know they have a gun
@@CAMSLAYER13 Except gun spies. I think they might know they have a gun most of the time.
in many cases they can outright carry because of there reliable solid damage
i agree, they just dont use their revolver actively at all, have you seen spies retreat shooting at you? most of the time, they dont
there was an open world zombie survival game i used to play with a cool inventory grid system. for the same inventory space as 1 rifle, you could carry a pistol, food, bandages, and a flashlight. of course, handguns were outclassed in combat by any other firearm, but they were still popular because you could have viable firepower in your pocket, while keeping your hands and back slot free for a fire axe or something. it was an interesting way to get more players to choose a pistol over long guns.
As a Scout main once said, "It is always better reloading your scattergun than using your pistol."
I disagree
That scout main was bad.
Skill issue on their part
Not always, especially with the force a nature
I guess you never played with a gun with fast reload.@@cseagul1
Normally, when you shoot a pistol with iron sights you don't only look through the sights, you have one eye through the sights and one eye able to see around. instead of just adding scopes you could make the pistol with irons semi-transparent with distinct ironsight.
Also, you can play around with the zero of your gun, so that your shots don't land exactly where you aim, but slightly above the iron sight, so you don't cover your target.
I don't think this actually resolves the issue though, pistols feel worse in games than in real life because games very rarely take into account the dreaded 3rd dimension. Guns end up so often being a flat overlay on your screen, you can get right up to a wall with your weapon still in your shoulder ready to fire, but in actuality with my weapon in my shoulder straight forward the closest I can get to the wall is however long the weapon is, if I want to hold tighter to that barrier I have to hold the weapon tighter to my body, something that in games seems rarer than not. In an enclosed space or going through a door I can't just be sideways with the weapon facing forward, I have to transition to a low or high ready, maybe even hold tight, to move sideways and even if I go straight in that might be better because the weapon will appear some distance in front of me alerting someone hiding to my presence before I'm aware of theirs.
That's actually a brilliant and very realistic depiction of how it looks in real life.
Simple solution, add drag to aiming; if you pull a 180, that heavy rifle needs to move with you, and getting your aim back to center will take time. Make the pistol do it faster, making it better for snap shot and 180s.
Please keep up this way of doing sponsorships. Tying sponsorships into the content you are creating, and talking about and critiquing the sponsor, are a great way to make your audience feel respected, while also keeping the sponsor happy and getting paid for all the hard work you put into these videos. Keep it up, can't wait for the next upload!
I just use sponsorblock lmao
@@Wingsfanacc Well, and this approach gets you a sponsor segment beside the "main" one that doesn't even get tagged for sponsor block because it's part of the content.
@@Vivi-yw1eu skipped it anyways lol, should actually dm the dev of the plugin about this
Based on my recent experience in VR shooter, there is one extreme important factor that have not been mentioned: Length / size.
When encounter in extreme close or narrow space, long guns can sometimes stuck in the wall (or forced to be held vertically like Tarkov) and unable to pre-aim.
This factor can bring pistol as sometimes a great advantage in narrow environment, and could be discuss as a factor.
Alao best quote of the day:
"I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it." - Arch, PISTOLS: Better Than Reloading
not just moving around obstacles, but also a long gun is easier for somebody to keep pointed away from themself in hand to hand combat.
This is a very interesting topic especially in VR or Airsoft, a lot of the things are different like when you have limited ammo, are encumbered by a large primary, get a jam or runout of ammo, when its faster to switch to the secondary than reload, or the fact that you hopefully have two eyes and can aim while being able to see everything else. Also as mentioned in the video they are smaller and less heavy. One other thing of little interest is rotating the item; you only need your wrist while with bigger two handed primary you use both arms. I may have forgotten some stuff about this topic so there is likely more to it, and keep up the good work.
As an aspiring game designer, I really enjoy these videos. I hope that in the future, you keep making videos like this.
PLEASE take this guys advaice he thinks of such good and fun looking ideas i would die for them to be in a game
As a game designer, please take everything this guy says with a heap of salt. His videos are mostly for entertainment purposes. Most of the 'problems' he discusses are only there because he either misunderstand certain aspects of design or because he oversimplifies a feature to the point problems start appearing that wouldn't be there if he'd just show the whole picture. Its honestly been incredibly frustrating seeing this man spreading so much false information and half-truths in his past couple FPS design related videos. If you want good information on game design, go look up GDC talks (they're on UA-cam) or look up videos by more well-researched hobbyists like Mark Brown. Its fine to enjoy these videos as entertainment or to get yourself thinking about design, but if you're serious about design there's more to be learned by figuring out what he's wrong about.
@@HD_HerpDerp oh i understand now thank you
@@HD_HerpDerp all i saw in the solution was use the semi auto glock or the 1911 if you want a slightly better option, all other pistols are worse than the primary options, also 2 meme weapons to dunk on new players with
@@ryelywall228 See, this is part of what I'm talking about. I don't think HALO players would agree that pistols are necessarily worse than other weapons because the Magnum in those games is notoriously good. Also the way he described these 'meme weapons' they would be ridiculously unbalanced in your run-of-the-mill shooter. He makes these sweeping statements about the way 'things are' when he hasn't played a wide variety of games and he's talking about game design from the perspective of a player, not a dev. I mean hell, his first two videos were mainly about the way sniper rifles and shotguns are balanced in Counter-Strike (while acting like these are generally applicable), claiming they're unbalanced without even making a single mention of the whole economy system which is a core balancing factor. Then when he finally actually mentions the economy in this video, he just sweeps it under the rug with a 'I'm not an economist'. He's not a game designer either, so why does he feel comfortable talking about that subject with authority but not about in-game economies (which is a part of game design)?
12:55 fun fact: there is a game where they add this kind of customization. They even add the ability to duel wield heavier guns if your character is strong enough
Madness: Project Nexus
bro i literally thought of that as well but i wasn’t expecting to find someone that played that too lmaoo
I've never heard of this. Interesting
ooohhhh, it's one of those kind of games with the silly character models. I can't for the life of me remember the first time I saw that style of character. Anyway I'll definitely pick it up on sale.
@@Scroolewse It's from Madness Combat.
Borderlands 2 Salvador
@@Scroolewse the gameplay is extremely fun, especially in the combat arena mode with a ton of customization can be unlocked by playing the game multiple times
I would pay a lot of money if you made a game with all the balances you’ve made in this series
I would love if the flintlock also had a hand club option, so you shoot once and then have a melee weapon, like in real life.
a realistic element that also fits the get out of jail free card type in the video would be the fact that black powder weapons produce a giant cloud of smoke when fired. The term 'fog of war' originally referred to a literal thick fog that would roll across battlefields when these things were in use, that's the whole reason for the brightly coloured uniforms is so you can see who's who
Its to outdated for modern setting!
I really like how insurgency sandstorm manages its weapon stats.
Every weapon can kill you with one or two shots, usually depending on whether the bullet hit your upper or lower half, anything at chest height or higher is a confirmed kill 80% of the time (except for headshots of course, that's 100%).
Armor is pretty much just dead weight and will only protect you once damage falloff comes into the equation, or if the caliber is small enough. Then again, it'd only take like an additional shot or two to take you down. Keeping things equally lethal makes it easier to give handguns a little more protagonism, you're still outmatched by even the shittiest rifle, but if you're a better shot than your opponent then your chances are not that bad, specially in CQB.
Armor helps a lot with protecting from explosives. But you're 100% right it's dead weight for bullet protection. At most, it'll let you last 1 or 2 bullets, assuming it's low calibre.
And another thing that helps insurgency (both OG and sandstorm) is that it's a generally urban focused tactical shooter, even if pistol is objectively worse on all aspects compared to a rifle or SMG, you mostly use it around corners in snap encounters, pre-aim and first to peek advantages are far more than enough to make them still come out on top.
Another thing I love about Sandstorm's pistols is that they are made more useful due to slow primary weapon reload speeds. In games with fast primary weapon reloads, there is rarely a reason to use your pistol unless you're totally out of primary ammo, but in Sandstorm it's critical to get good at smoothly switching to your pistol once you realize your main gun is dry. Also, Sandstorm has a system where your gun's barrel length affects whether or not it can be used when close to objects, and pistols are significantly less clumsy than rifles in CQB.
STALKER realistically puts this to practice as well. An AK-74 will kill a human regardless of body armor at close range, but at longer ranges, even simpler ballistic armor can keep you alive from 1-2 hits
My guy made eight bangers then dissapered to nothing lol
14:45
No way was the subway surfers game play in the video, our attention spans are still here
LMAO RIGHT??
Fr fr
That was legitimately one of the best integrated sponsorships I've seen on UA-cam, and I genuinely enjoyed it rather than skipping it to get on with the video.
I love coming back to this video. The editing is so good and your suggestions for fixing the pistols are also really cool. I also go back to the shotgun and sniper videos but this is definitely my favourite of the 3.
You could also add in a weight mechanic where the less and smaller gear you have, the lighter you are and faster that you are. Having less armor means that you’ll have less health and protection, but you are faster, have a ton more stamina and get hit less. While having more gear means more options, such as heavier armor means more health and protection with being able to use heavier weapons for effectively at the cost of moving fairly slowly. And an idea for next video, you could do a video about lethals, tacticals, medicine or gear. Since they are the smaller but very useful things that can help shape if you win or not. Find a small room that you’re not confident in? Use a flashbang or grenade. In a wide area with small areas to go? A smoke should be able to conceal you. Wounded? Use a medkit which will heal you but takes a while. Need a quick get up? Use morphine and adrenaline, but it doesn’t last very long and if you use too much you’ll start seeing things
My guy you should play Ready or Not.
Battlebit already has that
Loadout points yo
already in insurgency sandstorm
To be honest, I agreed with basically everything in this video, but I have to take a little bit of a stance when it comes to Ready or Not. In Reay or Not, the main use of the pistol is as a one-handed weapon to be used with a shield, which instantly makes them balanced, as shields are absurdly good. In addition, when peeking doors, you will often find yourself with a dilemma: do you push the door open after peeking it (which you might do to check for bombs), or do you open the door completely? In a few cases, I have found that it puts me in a much better situation to open the door by pushing it open with my body. And while primary weapons are undoubtedly better in terms of damage, fire rate, accuracy, etc., there is an problem in Ready or Not where your gun will become unusable when you are too close to a wall or door. Your character, instead of allowing the gun to clip through the surface, will instead aim it directly up. However, with a pistol, the range at which this occurs is essentially negligible. This allows you much more versatility in clearing rooms.
Loved the video though, keep it up!
As a person who loves gunslingers and handguns revolvers sir you just answered my prayers
12:46 I love that you brought up the idea of mixing and matching different guns when dual-wielding. Halo 2 did this back in 2004, and aside from Halo 3 and Halo 2 Anniversary, I can't think of any other shooter that allows this as an option. It was so much fun to try different combinations of weapons together to see what works really well and what doesn't. I really wish other games tried this out.
Wolfenstein new Colossus allows both hands to have completely different guns. So I'd run the shotgun and the AR for that wombo combo
Just Cause 2 allows dual wielding with different weapons. I wish it’s sequels kept that feature, because it was really cool holding an SMG in one hand and a compact grenade launcher in the other.
@@amazingnoo9935 I can't believe I forgot about Just Cause 2 when I made the original comment, but that game is another great example of the mechanic done well.
Ive pretty much only seen this in vr games, which is a shame.
It was possible through cheating in Apex Legends, but that cheat has either been patched or fell out of favor because of how blatant it is. It would be cool as a legitimate mechanic though.
I am honestly shocked nobody here has brought up Hunt Showdown, a fantasy cowboy style fps with PvPvE gameplay.
almost half the guns in Hunt are pistols, mostly revolvers, and they are almost all just as important as your primary weapon if not more so. some of them straight up ARE primary weapons!
Honestly the way Hunt Showdown handles it's handguns could be an entire followup video to this in and of itself!
Anyway, loved the video, looking forward to more like it in the future!
its one of my fav game, because you can win with every gun, if all are op none are :)
Came to comment this, really works with how the ammo stacking works, especially with stuff like the sparks pistol! The whole ammo thing is an entire different breakdown.
My favorite instance of proper handgun balancing is Mass Effect 3, where lighter guns reduce your ability cooldowns. I went from using mostly assault rifles to almost exclusively pistols in the switch to ME3.
i love that the "using your secondary hand for something else thing" already exists in VR games like pavlov or contractors cause why wouldn't it, you could hold 2 LMGs even just gotta try and control the recoil
14:32 this video’s got everything including Subway Surfers gameplay for our short attention spans
Fr fr
speak for yourself
If I would have a short attention span, I would not watch this video...
The clip only removed my attention!
@@carbonx0718 true! but it was really funny!
I can’t lie, the sponsor introduction here was the absolute best I’ve ever seen. I was actually engaged with the discussion of how Enlisted’s handguns work instead of having the usual reaction of repeatedly fast forwarding.
10:42 really love this mechanic in stalker,i usually have a pistol to use with a artifact detector,so that if i get attacked while artifact hunting i can use a weapon do defend myself
Hi Arch, In Ready or not , if you have a primary weapon, and your front is blocked by something, you can't aim/ posture it. there's a mechanism in place where if you have a long gun, it will take into account the space in front of you, making pistols very viable for CQB. especially in narrow corridors/ rooms.
Does CQB stand for Close Quarter Battle?
@@ShiddyKongyes
He also didn't mention the very thing a free hand (which he mentioned in earlier segment funny enough) offers: Tactical Shield. In a well-coordinated team the utility of having someone take aggro while your teammates flank and neutralize suspects is invaluable, especially when going against HVTs like Brixley, Gerald, Voll (may he rot in hell)
In Destiny 2, sidearms are generally avoided as primary weapons but they do more damage within their effective range. Bungie balances them by giving them steep damage falloff past ~18 meters
I find it funny that I don’t play a single fps game and I still enjoy your videos. They’re just really well crafted!
The amazing video quality combined with the simplistic style and references to media creates a perfect video. Keep up the good work!
Something I would add to the revolvers is that when you draw the gun, there is a small window where, if you hold down the click while drawing, you can immediately take it out and fire 3 or 4 quick shots with high (but controllable) recoil. It's more about reflexes. Maybe it's not realistic, but I think it would be fun.
(sorry for typos I don't speak english) 33:46
I have a suggestion for potentially solving the whole "pistol blocks your view" issue that I believe makes justifiable sense. Semi-transparency. In fact, it could apply to most weapons aside from heavies or high magnification scopes. So in most games you ADS by closing one eye, slowing down, and focusing down your scope. Makes sense to line up a target in a rifle or magnified scope, but for a pistol consistently held in a forward position, especially without a scope, its easy enough to move around and keep the gun in a sighted position while moving at less than a sprint. You wouldn't be running around the map with one eye closed, would you? Due to the offset nature of our binary vision, you technically have two fields of view from separate angles that combines to make our vision seem singular, but when using both eyes you can easily see *through* close-held objects. This is actually how professionals are trained to use firearms so that they aren't running around squinting through a scope that blocks 70% of their peripheral vision. In most FPS games, scopes lower the main body of the rifle out of the way already, so I don't think it's entirely necessary to apply transparency there, but for pistols I think giving the player full or even fuzzy vision through the gun would make a lot of sense and provide that little gameplay advantage to an otherwise underwhelming support item. This, combined with free-hand contextual actions/accessories, would be a great step towards making pistols feel more useful for certain situations.
Thats actually quite the genius idea
I abuse the see through close objects thing in laser tage
Tag
@@zuon_0182 Thanks, but really it's just mirroring real life, so if anything it'd be considered as realism rather than innovation.
while not trying to be a more realistic modern military shooter, Darktide makes it so they hold the pistols with one hand and aim it at a bit of an angle and it takes up way less screen space.
1:00
That's because in that game, Rainbow Six Siege, that operator's (Caveira) special ability is to be kind of a silent assassin and her pistol is made to have high damage closerange but also having a high damage dropoff so it aligns with other pistols for consistency. So close range her pistol does more damage but for far range I'd pick Rook with his MP5 and 2x scope.
2 minutes into watching my first video from Arch, and I'm hooked. Incredible appeal, simple but intriguing questions, nice music, and a strange and charismatic or atleast happy voice to couple it all. Wow.
Pistol in Ready Or Not is actually pretty useful, because it is short :)
In some tight space or doorways, your long gun is more likely to be blocked, stopping you from firing your gun.
If you use a pistol, however, you can fire your gun freely in tight spaces, I usually use it while I am attacking some tight corner
Well, it can be replaced by smg in this case :P
Whats with the random subway surfer clip around 14:30 lmao
I was also wondering that😭
to make sure we pay attention since ppl now-a-days have an attention span worse than a goldfish
No way 💀
That was the single best sponsored segment ive ever seen, it was so integrated into the videos premise that I diddnt notice and was actually interested until the end when yo u reminded me with the overlay. Props mate!
i feel like the "interaction thing" you were talking about is something that is way more prevalent in VR games like Breachers and Zero Caliber. Zero Caliber also has the customization down for secondaries where i personally like an SMG as my primary, i carry a scoped revolver as a secondary. It might be an interesting video to see what VR does to the FPS genre.
How about Pavlov? I often played with revolver purely because it does rifle damage. My free hand was holding cocked grenades, the bomb, a knife, healing pills, or even grabbing the magazine of my enemy. And recoil control was unmatched compared to rifles, so I could play deathmatch with no problems at all. A knife in my off hand instantly won me any fight if we both turned a corner. The ability to carry 2 pistols was key to my reload management, and I could hold 2+2 if I included the ones in my hand (-1 since I needed to drop one to reload, balancing!).
One more thing that pistols can do? Concealment. I played TTT and I can assure you that guessing who is fooling around and who is carrying the oneshot detective Desert Eagle made subterfuge possible. I literally held my hands up, reached for my waist, and got killed. We had a chuckle in deadchat about how I almost made it to my revolver.
You think I am gonna read this long ass paragraph?
One really interesting case study for pistols in gaming is Isonzo and the WW1 series. Because everyone is running around with bolt actions that take a long time to ADS and ready, the pistols become amazing trench- and objective-clearing weapons. That, coupled with the limited slots for certain roles and weapons, makes the pistols fulfill the primary and secondary niche simultaneously when combined with the equipment system.
Also Light LMGs are done well
inaccurate when hip fireing
But deady and accurate when put on a surfiace
Bf1?
@@ADMICKEY battlefield gives everyone but snipers semi-automatic or automatic weapons that all outclass every handgun in the game in a 1-on-1 fight.
32:35 The phantom forces Glock 18 has very bad recoil. At 30 studs, you can kill someone with half a mag, but because of the horizontal recoil causing you to need to mag dump.
Can’t wait to watch this video, thanks for taking the time to bring quality content to us. Will edit after I watch for my reaction :)
Edit: Incredible video with a lot of thought provoking ideas. I agree that pistols should be a slightly weaker version of primary weapons with worse ammo capacity, however I still want the choice of it being a primary with a free hand and an ability if I feel like it. My main gripe with pistols today isn’t even the balancing anymore so much as it is the lack of customization.
I hope you like it!
@@OfficialArchits really good
this video editing is fantcastic. I have never seen animation and footage blended so well.
I think you did not emphasize the barrel length in realistic games. One of the big benefits pistols have in close quarters they do not need to be lowered, plus height over bore when shooting near cover. I could also see additional movement options/speed for taking pistols. I will say good video and I hope you do more!
love how hes genuinely honest about his sponsor, thats great tbh
3:13 the left one is a short barrelled rifle, the bottom one is an assault rifle, *and the right one in the eyes of the ATF is a felony*
Honestly the production quality (graphics, animations, etc) and everything on these vids is sooo good. One other thing you (and SummoningSalt) get right is a proper intro sequence (with nice synthwavey music that definitely does not bias me) before the main content. This one was great, keep it up!
I fell in love with your sniper video, and then enjoyed your shotgun video.
The fact you made a video for pistols makes me so happy.
Cheers for your hard work, and consider me subbed... oh, I forgot I already subbed.
14:44 Jokes on you Arch i would always choose a pistol because no one expects to be deleted by a pistol
An awesome detail enabled by VR is that the "free-hand" mechanic is built in! Yet another of the details that (I hope) will eventually lead to VR shooters someday being an awesome, innovative way to experience the genre.
You just *KNOW* it’s a good day when Arch uploads. Props.
I watched every video from you (except this video what I am watching right now) and I have to say that I love your videos!!! I am feeling very comfortable when I am watching them. Big praise to you!
For Enlisted, I think you may have missed a few things about pistols
Pistols aren't all built equal. The semi-autos like the C96 and the 1911 and the Hi-Power are blatantly better. More controllable, higher damage and rate of fire. I can't speak for the autos since I don't have any.
At lower BRs where most infantry are armed with bayoneted bolt actions. You can use them very effectively in close quarters. And because it takes its own slot, you still have your regular weapons available to you.
I regularly use semi-automatic pistols to give my sniper squads assault capability. They can clean house against a player and AI who only has a bolt action and well timed reloads combined with good use of cover can let you pick apart a whole squad. If you die, every soldier in your squad can carry a pistol, so you have more chances. It's fun to John Wick your way around buildings and houses with the 1911.
You won't win a straight up fight with a submachine gun but that makes sense, that's thier niche. You can still clean house with pistols against rifle squads.
Another niche I've found for Pistols is with Machinegunners. Machineguns in enlisted really slow you down when equipped, so I give my machinegunners Pistols I swap to whenever I need to quickly change positions. They give me some defensive capability while being able to run and move more freely than with the Machinegun.
As an aside, you can also fire sub-machineguns from the hatches of tanks. Really useful for surprising sneaky AT players.
the two handed style that can freely managed with any "onehanded" weapon is very fun and can be balanced. A good example is "Totally accurate battle grounds" for it is really fun and often encouraged to use two pistols at once because of the lack of better dmg options as the drops are random. It is obv a joke game but still manages to represent the "what if" factor really well.
One thing I think of is the game Roboquest- and though it is a hero shooter- it does do somthing interesting.
The starting pistol has a wepon affix called "sidekick" which fully reloads your unequiped weapon on kill. Quite literally, better then reloading, the drawback being peashooter status.
I’m loving this series, the videos are all very well written, edited and made.
For revolvers SA/DA revolvers(So cocking a double action revolver) could give the first shot a quick followup so essentially with the revolver you’d get 2 round burst, single x4. Or whenever you reloaded the first shot would be burst again.
Nice idea, too bad that revolver have a high kick
@@emperorcokelord1021 Depends on the caliber
After playing Helldivers 2 (like everyone else) I have totally reevaluated my stance on secondaries being useless. Because it has realistic magazines, you want to expend all of your bullets before reloading to not be wasteful. This leads to you entering gunfights with a partially empty weapon leading to you switching weapons. In other games, ammo isn't much of a concern, so you impulsively reload after shooting one bullet which means you are always able to kill your opponent before emptying your mag (unless you are a really bad shot/unlucky/fighting multiple enemies). So really switching to your pistol ISN'T always faster than reloading but it is more economically efficient.
It's really wonderful how you can make such interesting videos out of such (normally) boring topics. Your animations really work great together with your explanations to make a great and interesting product. Thanks for your Videos dude
A video on balancing guns in VR would be pretty sweet
12:54 TABG has this feature. You can pick a Luger for your left hand and a Glock for your right, or a taser in the left and a flintlock in the right.
I forgot to mention the genius trade off. If you have a desert eagle and a Glock 18, you fire each weapon with either the left or right mouse button. This makes it so you can have the high damage of a 50 call and the fast fire rate of the Glock, but you can’t ADS with either of them. This makes the player choose between having 2 guns that could do different things or having one gun that you can aim with. Both options are viable, but some are better than others *in certain situations.* I love this balancing tool and I will probably be adding something like this in my own game.
HUD as an offhand option is definitely a game designing idea. Especially if the player normally would have to swap to their HUD object if they have a 2 hand item equipped.
12:01
You can hear the regret and shame before he said it, that being said. AMONGUS
I think it's interesting to consider how adding a "shield" or other feature that raises the time to kill affects the viability of handguns. In Destiny, the hand cannons are an extremely viable and popular choice among primaries, and the sidearms that were introduced in Destiny 2 were also fairly viable. They managed to feel distinct even though "scout rifles" which were essentially DMRs existed in the game as well.
When you run out of ammo and juke the enemy by retreating and then immediately 180 with the pistol and get the kill is one of the best feelings in gaming
14:40 did you really just attack my short attention span like that?
My main issue with pistols in games is that, especially in earlier call of duty games is the 1911 is basically a pea shooter. A good marksman can kill someone with one shot. But yet it's treated like its a smoothebore shooting .22.
Flare Gun should also blind for at least 2 seconds, so you can escape/switch weapon.
I personally like a small shotgun as a sidearm and a medium range sniper as main.
Great video as always :)
This channel appeared out of nowhere and went down silently. Sometimes i still wonder what was that?
What I think all games should do (that have ads) for all handguns is have them displayed center of frame like in DOOM, but slightly below where your crosshair is instead of the weird and unrealistic off to the side frame thing. Then, when you use your sights you raise the gun slightly. This is done in real life and it’s called a “low ready position” so you can keep your spacial awareness but be able to ready the gun really quick.
I honestly want to see games lean away from the way ADS works right now and back toward relying on just a crosshair. Ironsights on guns aren't always accurate to where the gun's going to shoot because of how the gun is animated, and this is a difficult problem to fix--but if you just _had a crosshair_ as if you always had a red-dot sight on your face, then it would be a nonissue, and the gun's model could be moved much lower to enable a clear field of view.
Genuinely this isnt something that has ever crossed my mind, but I think you're absolutely right. Id love to see this in more games
Thanks to Arch for always giving us bangers
Destiny does sidearms really well. I don't enjoy them because they kick like a mule on PC, but they are amazing at close range on controller. There's even special ammo sidearms that can 3 tap.
This guy doesn't make UA-cam videos he's making youtube productions, great channel, deserves more love.
i genuinely love how this channel was most likely founded by the following thought process:
"Man all these damn FPS games are SO horribly and unrealistically balanced!
If only their balance teams had brains and more then 5 minutes to think about this UGH"
and i'm 100% here for it.
May you get millions of subs and get some actual changes made in games mate!
Same lol great explanation
i really love your simple and yet really nice style. always understable and easy to see.
8:44 could’ve picked any other alternative angles to aim then the 2nd one
I knew I wasn’t the only one who sounded the alarms
_aim for head :)?_
u came in the middle of nowhere, but then just made amazing content like what? like seriously keep it up dude!