I've worked in the Automotive and Diesel world the last 20 years and you did a very good job on describing this topic. Its a boat load of information and you did well putting it in laymen's terms
The video isn't really half an hour, its really 15 minutes. It seems to run twice. Maybe Jeff knows that none of us listen very well and we need to hear it again!
Jeff thank you so much for all your videos and sharing your knowledge. I watch them thoroughly every time I work on my bike, do top ends etc. If you were to sell an OBDII module for the 250/300 TPI bikes I would buy it in a heart beat.
The problem with this technology is that it's software driven. When that software has a bug which they all do things stop working. This is why cars have many issues and need updates all the time. I'd rather have the old fashion way of a switch that turns the light on rather than a computer to decide if the light comes on or not.
And that’s where you think you want that but you actually don’t as you probably didn’t drive a car that had no software used for anything. Just think ABS, Injection, Engine Control, … going back to mechanical would make the way more inefficient. The same is with theft protection systems would simply not enough anymore.
@platin2148 I agree, there are lots of software applications on cars and bikes. The difference with this though is companies like KTM can switch off your abs or your traction control when ever they like, such as when you sell the bike. They will make it a subscription so you don't own the add ons. It will still cost the same just that you can't sell it on. Very different to software that controls your fuel injection.
@@OrangeManStan Ahh so you do have a problem as soon as you have to pay multiple times? I guess the main reason why this stuff has a running cost is because there are people maintaining and trying to update the software on these controllers. Also there are licensing costs and certification costs that are ongoing. I highly doubt that you’d like to pay for a life time of these things that have to be payed some how and that would make the price significantly more expensive. I suspect there would be not a huge market for controllers with software that support only a Smartphone OS from 2011 and doesn’t have newer standards. I guess one could certainly add the option for adding additionally +8k to each motorcycle that you get a life time update. Well what ever that meant. Is it possible to freeze these things in time? I guess it’s possible but you certainly wouldn’t want that either. And doing everything onboard is sadly a very unrealistic idea as KTM doesn’t own 99% of the ECU’s and control units on there own motorcycles, and there are several suppliers which require the things to be connected now. Actually in cars it’s already mandatory so running costs occur.
@platin2148 all companies are doing it, they love subscriptions. They can get on going payments, ultimately for the companies you will be leasing the item. Cars come with everything, heated seats, different power outputs, same as KTM bikes, you now choose what you'd like with extra payments. So you pay for all the hardware but cannot use it until you pay more. Then you need to sign up for their app otherwise you cannot have options. This only works with Canbus tech. When you sell the car the options go with the app. It's perfect for the big companies not great for the end user.
@@OrangeManStan CAN BUS is btw. nothing new at all it’s basically a thing from 30 years ago. The thing you have today is they made it possible that a normal user can access it. Like the hardware was and still is there for you to access that bus since then but as it is like it was back then most of the average people don’t know how it works. So what you pay with these subscriptions is typically that the stuff works with your smartphone or whatever gadget thingy you own for a reasonable amount of time this simply would not be acceptable for people to pay once. The other option is to not have these things and that would make you basically pay once.
It's great ktm went that direction, at the end of the day yeah it takes away the simplicity of it but leaves room for mega performance side of things to dial a 2 stroke in on a bike to a tee. They been doing it on sleds for decades and look where those are at now!
Hey Jeff, as always thank you for your awesome videos 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻. However, I do have 1 question. 2024 KTM XC-300 will not idle and the red nub to adjust the idle is maxed out as far as it goes to higher the RPM, but will NOT idle, especially when it's cold, even when it's hot it will idle for few sec and dies. Any suggestions? thax
I'm not a anti-tech, just the opposite. This sounds like more chances to get stranded when an electrical voltage spikes from whatever issues (water, shorting, etc), on the KTM 500 or 350 EXC-Fs fail to report properly. Jeff your thoughts on whether this will A) enable more safety and reliability going forward. My bikes have plenty of performance already so I just need to focus on those two priorities now. Many of us get far out from the traillhead? B) Is this going to do that or increase service costs at the Shops, when trying to troubleshoot problems. ("we better put in a new CANBus just to be sure"). C)Will the CANBus enable forward compatibility like when a new year dirt bike or dual sport model some feature (TC, ECU factory maps, and then you want to add these plug and play to your prior year CANBus models, are they saying this was part of the reason? that is big for those who can't afford new bikes every few years. On my 2022 500 EXC-F I still have the speedo resetting Trips, Aves, etc. often on stopping. Even after I checked the button battery voltage and shimmed it up to sit in tighter in that round slot. I won't add Athen or Get ECUs cause I have enough power as is and don't need any new trouble to wonder about when something acts up. Any thoughts on these points mentioned would be appreciated. I'm and advocate for Slavens Store and their great Customer Service, my friend just spent $430 on suspension parts on my sending him to your store. Keep up the good work! Thanks for this video.
Hello Jr: A) As I mentioned in the video, Canbus is known for reliability and that has been my experience with other models that have had it for years. It is in your truck, your car, your boat, your everything. So I ask you this, have you had a CANbus issue in any of your non-motorcycle products? My guess is probably not. CANbus simplifies the electronics and does not make it more complicated. It is a simple 2 wire system called CAN in and CAN out. B) It should not increase service cost. If your dealer says the opposite, find a new dealer that is knowledgeable and ethical. C) One of the benefits of CANbus is compatibility, however my dang crystal ball is broken and I cannot predict what KTM will do in the future, ha! I suggest you reconsider a Vortex or GET ECU. I realize you don't want more power but in stock form they very easily flame out and toss you on your head. That is because the O.E.M. mapping is very lean (thanks to the EPA) which makes your bike run hot and causes premature engine wear. If you would like to discuss ECUs further, please give us a call and ask for Alec. Thank you for your patronage and referrals. We appreciate you!
@@slaverace1 It is common for dirt bikes to get submerged in water crossings, and drenched from rain. That is a significant difference when comparing to passenger vehicles as they are totaled when they submerge. I'd like to see if they have any waterproof seals to help.
Hey Jeff, Appreciate the information. So you mentioned this setup reduces the bulk of the wiring harness, How do the multiple modules communicate? Is there some sort of Bluetooth?
Basically computers talk in 0's and 1's. Think on and off. Theres parameters that programed this way and the computers basically talk to each other in this way. At the end of the lines there's called these things called terminating resistors , and think of them as gates that don't let information spill out. That's done by resistors that are put between the two data link wires. They have figured out how to basically do it between two wires and the information is going back and forth and a pretty high rate of speed.
So the wiring still exists between ecm/ecu to ecm/ecu and sensors to ecm/ecu, they are just smaller and less bulky? I can see then why the addition of components to these data circuits could cause problems with communication. Therefore the need to add aftermarket circuits fused directly to the battery. Thanks for the ongoing education here, I am a veteran rider (65) on a 2018 TX300 . I am preparing my mind for the inevitable, eventual upgrade in technology.
Sorry but your video needs an edit ... it repeats itself around minute 16 or 17 ... otherwise I appreciate the intro to Canbus ... I've heard of it but needed your intro here!
To be clear, this 28 minute video repeats itself at about minute 16 ... the rest of the video has already been given in the first 16 minutes ... if you want that to stay, so be it ... but seems like an easy edit @@slaverace1
I've worked in the Automotive and Diesel world the last 20 years and you did a very good job on describing this topic. Its a boat load of information and you did well putting it in laymen's terms
Thank you.
I’m 67 and really appreciate the dumbing down ya do on the videos.
Side question, is Brandon’s Canbus taking a crap?
Sorry, don't know. It's difficult to keep track of Brandon, ha!
Great educational video. I discovered I knew how it worked, but never understood that "CanBus" was what it ws called. Thans Jeff.
Glad you enjoyed it!
The video isn't really half an hour, its really 15 minutes. It seems to run twice. Maybe Jeff knows that none of us listen very well and we need to hear it again!
Hello:
You Tube corrupted the file. We reloaded and it should be fine now.
Jeff thank you so much for all your videos and sharing your knowledge. I watch them thoroughly every time I work on my bike, do top ends etc. If you were to sell an OBDII module for the 250/300 TPI bikes I would buy it in a heart beat.
You may be interested in this: slavensracing.com/shop/ecu-reflash-module-erm-by-two-stroke-performance/
Thanks! I’ll check it out.
Eric: The market is flooded with them at cheap prices.
The problem with this technology is that it's software driven. When that software has a bug which they all do things stop working. This is why cars have many issues and need updates all the time. I'd rather have the old fashion way of a switch that turns the light on rather than a computer to decide if the light comes on or not.
And that’s where you think you want that but you actually don’t as you probably didn’t drive a car that had no software used for anything. Just think ABS, Injection, Engine Control, … going back to mechanical would make the way more inefficient. The same is with theft protection systems would simply not enough anymore.
@platin2148 I agree, there are lots of software applications on cars and bikes. The difference with this though is companies like KTM can switch off your abs or your traction control when ever they like, such as when you sell the bike. They will make it a subscription so you don't own the add ons. It will still cost the same just that you can't sell it on. Very different to software that controls your fuel injection.
@@OrangeManStan Ahh so you do have a problem as soon as you have to pay multiple times? I guess the main reason why this stuff has a running cost is because there are people maintaining and trying to update the software on these controllers. Also there are licensing costs and certification costs that are ongoing. I highly doubt that you’d like to pay for a life time of these things that have to be payed some how and that would make the price significantly more expensive. I suspect there would be not a huge market for controllers with software that support only a Smartphone OS from 2011 and doesn’t have newer standards.
I guess one could certainly add the option for adding additionally +8k to each motorcycle that you get a life time update. Well what ever that meant. Is it possible to freeze these things in time? I guess it’s possible but you certainly wouldn’t want that either. And doing everything onboard is sadly a very unrealistic idea as KTM doesn’t own 99% of the ECU’s and control units on there own motorcycles, and there are several suppliers which require the things to be connected now. Actually in cars it’s already mandatory so running costs occur.
@platin2148 all companies are doing it, they love subscriptions. They can get on going payments, ultimately for the companies you will be leasing the item. Cars come with everything, heated seats, different power outputs, same as KTM bikes, you now choose what you'd like with extra payments. So you pay for all the hardware but cannot use it until you pay more. Then you need to sign up for their app otherwise you cannot have options. This only works with Canbus tech. When you sell the car the options go with the app. It's perfect for the big companies not great for the end user.
@@OrangeManStan
CAN BUS is btw. nothing new at all it’s basically a thing from 30 years ago. The thing you have today is they made it possible that a normal user can access it. Like the hardware was and still is there for you to access that bus since then but as it is like it was back then most of the average people don’t know how it works. So what you pay with these subscriptions is typically that the stuff works with your smartphone or whatever gadget thingy you own for a reasonable amount of time this simply would not be acceptable for people to pay once. The other option is to not have these things and that would make you basically pay once.
Jeff does this mean at some point we will have access to fault codes like on cars?
Hello
You can do that now with the TSP ERM slavensracing.com/shop/ecu-reflash-module-erm-by-two-stroke-performance/ or with an OBD2 reader.
It's great ktm went that direction, at the end of the day yeah it takes away the simplicity of it but leaves room for mega performance side of things to dial a 2 stroke in on a bike to a tee. They been doing it on sleds for decades and look where those are at now!
Fair enough!
How come on the '24 xcw, over obd2, you can't read live stuff like RPM, temp, sensors, etc like other KTM bikes?
If You want to plug in cooling fan? The combination switch button?
Hello:
Sorry, I don't understand your comment.
Is the CANbus system built into each ecu , or is there a stand alone canbus module?
It's a simple 2 wire system that allows components to communicate with each other.
Do the 2024 small bikes come with switched and unswitched accessory ports like the KTM ADV bikes?
Jeff:
No.
Hey Jeff, as always thank you for your awesome videos 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻. However, I do have 1 question. 2024 KTM XC-300 will not idle and the red nub to adjust the idle is maxed out as far as it goes to higher the RPM, but will NOT idle, especially when it's cold, even when it's hot it will idle for few sec and dies. Any suggestions? thax
Hello:
First thing I always check is the compression. If compression is good, clean the injectors.
I'm not a anti-tech, just the opposite. This sounds like more chances to get stranded when an electrical voltage spikes from whatever issues (water, shorting, etc), on the KTM 500 or 350 EXC-Fs fail to report properly. Jeff your thoughts on whether this will
A) enable more safety and reliability going forward. My bikes have plenty of performance already so I just need to focus on those two priorities now. Many of us get far out from the traillhead?
B) Is this going to do that or increase service costs at the Shops, when trying to troubleshoot problems. ("we better put in a new CANBus just to be sure").
C)Will the CANBus enable forward compatibility like when a new year dirt bike or dual sport model some feature (TC, ECU factory maps, and then you want to add these plug and play to your prior year CANBus models, are they saying this was part of the reason? that is big for those who can't afford new bikes every few years.
On my 2022 500 EXC-F I still have the speedo resetting Trips, Aves, etc. often on stopping. Even after I checked the button battery voltage and shimmed it up to sit in tighter in that round slot. I won't add Athen or Get ECUs cause I have enough power as is and don't need any new trouble to wonder about when something acts up.
Any thoughts on these points mentioned would be appreciated. I'm and advocate for Slavens Store and their great Customer Service, my friend just spent $430 on suspension parts on my sending him to your store. Keep up the good work! Thanks for this video.
Hello Jr:
A) As I mentioned in the video, Canbus is known for reliability and that has been my experience with other models that have had it for years. It is in your truck, your car, your boat, your everything. So I ask you this, have you had a CANbus issue in any of your non-motorcycle products? My guess is probably not. CANbus simplifies the electronics and does not make it more complicated. It is a simple 2 wire system called CAN in and CAN out.
B) It should not increase service cost. If your dealer says the opposite, find a new dealer that is knowledgeable and ethical.
C) One of the benefits of CANbus is compatibility, however my dang crystal ball is broken and I cannot predict what KTM will do in the future, ha!
I suggest you reconsider a Vortex or GET ECU. I realize you don't want more power but in stock form they very easily flame out and toss you on your head. That is because the O.E.M. mapping is very lean (thanks to the EPA) which makes your bike run hot and causes premature engine wear. If you would like to discuss ECUs further, please give us a call and ask for Alec.
Thank you for your patronage and referrals. We appreciate you!
@@slaverace1 It is common for dirt bikes to get submerged in water crossings, and drenched from rain. That is a significant difference when comparing to passenger vehicles as they are totaled when they submerge. I'd like to see if they have any waterproof seals to help.
@@dirtrider9268
Hello:
It's a very simple 2 wire system that can handle aquatic adventures. Ride on!
Hey Jeff, Appreciate the information. So you mentioned this setup reduces the bulk of the wiring harness, How do the multiple modules communicate? Is there some sort of Bluetooth?
Basically computers talk in 0's and 1's. Think on and off. Theres parameters that programed this way and the computers basically talk to each other in this way. At the end of the lines there's called these things called terminating resistors , and think of them as gates that don't let information spill out. That's done by resistors that are put between the two data link wires. They have figured out how to basically do it between two wires and the information is going back and forth and a pretty high rate of speed.
So the wiring still exists between ecm/ecu to ecm/ecu and sensors to ecm/ecu, they are just smaller and less bulky? I can see then why the addition of components to these data circuits could cause problems with communication. Therefore the need to add aftermarket circuits fused directly to the battery. Thanks for the ongoing education here, I am a veteran rider (65) on a 2018 TX300 . I am preparing my mind for the inevitable, eventual upgrade in technology.
@@BenLea-rq3rm yes , exactly. If they ran each wire for each needed circuit , there would be miles of wires and it would look like a box of spaghetti
@@unclematt7223 you lose cred when you start with Basically... as that is the BS'ers call sign.
@@dirtrider9268 Just simplifying a complex topic . Im to old to worry about credit , just trying to be helpful. Cheers
it seems you hooked a tsp-erm. will we get some feedback on that?
Hello:
TSP ERM videos will post soon, probably 2-3 weeks.
Sorry but your video needs an edit ... it repeats itself around minute 16 or 17 ... otherwise I appreciate the intro to Canbus ... I've heard of it but needed your intro here!
Hello
Sorry if the editing is not correct. We are not going to edit it. Have bigger fish to fry.
To be clear, this 28 minute video repeats itself at about minute 16 ... the rest of the video has already been given in the first 16 minutes ... if you want that to stay, so be it ... but seems like an easy edit
@@slaverace1
@@byronstuck8875
Ok, I’ll ask the crew to look into it. Thanks.
@@byronstuck8875
Hello:
Thanks for your help. YT corrupted the file, so it has been reloaded and should be working now.