We agree, this movie made us love the BN much more after we learned the real story. They were an Epic Railroad in so many ways. Thanks for your support!
29.20 shows Western Springs. Remember waiting at a LaGrange crossing in the school bus during winter months and seeing the morning North Coast Limited eastbound into Chicago,- most notably after the zephyr had gone thru a storm the previous night and the lower third of each two-tone green passenger car and wheels (trucks) were loaded with light gray ice. Thought it must have been a tough run thru some really cold weather. Long train, this zephyr coming all the way from Seattle. Also, during the early 1960s went on a number of fantrips with 5632 and 4960 (missed but saw the 6315 and 5632 double-header at both LaGrange Road and the little bridge at Highlands station)…Sunday Only excursions mostly to Galesburg all the way in the baggage car for me were a big deal, though cleaning exposed face and ears not protected by goggles was quite a chord the night before starting back to school the next morning.
He says that "most railroads were in good shape by war's end". That may have been true financially. But they were certainly worn out physically by war traffic added to much deferred maintenance due to the Great Depression.
The roads that excepted the financial help during the war years came out in fair shape at best. While roads that invested prior and opted out of excepting aid like the MKT for new locomotives, rolling stock and track and signal upgrades came back to bite them in the ass after the war when they asked for the help that had been offered during the war and the government said nope the war is over we don't need you.
@@onrr1726Highway administrations, waterway management (Corp of engineers), and fat cats in aviation all had no qualms with accepted the hundreds of millions the pocket padding gooberment reps were throwing at them.
Wow, thanks you for your vote it makes us here at CSP feel really to receive compliments like yours. It inspires us to keep "Bringing the Trains"! Have a super day!
@@charlessmileyvideosI don't like watching videos of trains going by I want to hear the history and the logistics of what is going on and nobody has done this better than you. Have always have had your DVDs as a kid starting with UP vintage West and have a pretty good collection. Pentrix was good but Charles Smiley is the undisputed GOAT of Railroad Videos and Railroad History.
Thanks! I worked two summers in the CB&Q Havelock shops as a Carman's Helper, a"Car Toad" in Q talk., and rode the Zepher from Hastings, NE to New York in 1966, and Hastings to Oakland, CA in 1969. Pullman all the way, and the bar car was great!
This was a cracking video of a great, majorly influential railroads history! I love this kind of history and as an Australian, it’s a great way to learn about the background of American railroads! Thank you for posting this!
When I was younger, CSX was rife with foreign power and leasing units. It seems like a Burlington Northern unit rolled through about once a week, and it was usually an SD40-2. I really miss those days.
Thanx for the history lesson. I wish that BNSF after the merger had gone with the BN green and black color scheme or one of the Santa Fe schemes rather than the terrible pumpkin color scheme.
On the flip side, you have ATSF fans saying they should have stayed with the warbonnet scheme! While I don't like what BNSF has eventually become, especially in the last 5 years, it probably was for the best to have their own identity.
Actually, the GN's colors were Omaha Orange and Pullman Green. I'm old enough to remember those colors on the Empire Builder, before the GN switched to Big Sky Blue and white.
@@davidmackey344 Yeah. CB&Q 5629 is at the museum. 5632 was illegally sold and scrapped right under the nose of her owner, Richard Jensen. He sued the people who scrapped that locomotive, and won the case. However, this caused Jensen to believe that the same outcome would always happen if one of his locomotives was lost. So, when Jensen was in serious financial trouble in the 1980's, he sacrificed his prized pacific (Grand Trunk Western 5629) in an attempt to get out of said troubles, but it didn't go as planned. That was because Jensen intentionally abandoned and used GTW 5629, leading to her demise. As a result, the railfan community disowned Jensen, and he died a hated man in 1991 at the age of 60 from poor health. It's also a very odd and fascinating coincidence that Grand Trunk Western and Burlington Route had two locomotives with the same number (5629 and 5632), and they had similar outcomes.
The 5629 O5 is at the Colo. RR Museum in Golden. Truly wish what you are thinking about 5632 were true. I’ll go for complete restoration of 5629 and it’s temporary renumbering though. Even paint it brass engine gold for a special event.
I used to live in Jonesboro, GA, so I model the Central of Georgia railway. But I have an old set of nice HO scale Gilbert coaches from the 1950's in the Northern Pacific livery with an F-3 engine and I love to run those since I've always liked the paint scheme of the NP. Main Street of Northwest. Cheers from eastern TN
It is interesting that you pointed that out, we were wondering the same thing too! What an motley mix of Alco power they had, but they were a cool railroad!
My guess is that Alco gave them better pricing on locomotives, and their owners didn't do anything to help them get more favorable pricing or financing from EMD. PRSL and PRR/PC were like this. The overall higher altitudes and climate might have made for better performance from the Alcos, too.
Alco was well known for producing marine diesal engines as was Fairbanks Moorse for ships, submarines and tug boats. Perhaps many of the guys who returned home from WWII were Navy and merchant marine Veterans and were more familiar and better trained with working on them compared to EMD, GE and Baldwin??
My Grandpa worked for the NP ... He said the Alco RS11 units would out pull their EMD GP9 counterparts like nobody's business. When the BN was formed the SP&S units were thrown in the mix... Their Alco units C424/C425 and the huge C636 were stellar units as far as brute strength. The big C636 units would out pull the EMD SD45 everytime... The problem was the EMD SD45 was 20 times more reliable... That was Alco's downfall... Reliability...the big C636 units were also very heavy and wore down or tore up light rail quickly
The GN Depot in Minneapolis lasted until 1978. I remember picking up passengers there in my first year as a driver for Yellow Cab. The address was "Foot of Hennepin Avenue".
Skipped BN's 1980 merger with the Frisco. NP was the third transcontinental RR completed, after the first transcontinental RR meeting of the CP and UP at Promontory Summit, UT and the second transcontinental RR meeting of the SP and AT&SF at Deming, NM.
Those modern steam locomotives set aside for traffic peaks DID get used. When a Soviet wheat harvest failed in the mid 50's, Burlington reactivated their 4-8-4's. The diesels went out to the grain branches to get wheat from the grain elevators and they turned the mainlines over to the 4-8-4's. Similar peaks occurred on the Reading and Santa Fe. And when the Pennsy couldn't acquire new diesels as fast as their old steamers were wearing out, they leased new modern steam power from two of those same railroads, the Reading and Santa Fe as well as the RF&P.
And with the the exception of the Homestake pass line (which has not been pulled up), the majority of the NP through Montana IS still in service, until the beginning of this year as Montana Rail Link.
I liked there green color. Today there grain hopper cars look like there rusted with there dull paint. Another thing you don’t see in these videos is all the graffiti
Yes paul no graffiti what a treat! And you are right the Green on the BN Hoppers has certainly faded over the years. Surprisingly there are a lot out there in service some in clean paint!
The Four companies also attempted to merge in the 1920s. But the deal was give up all interest in the Burlington. Unfortunately neither the Great Northern or Northern Pacific was willing to give it up. And in one proposal Great Northern would paired with the Milwaukee road. While Northern Pacific would be paired with the Burlington. But honestly I feel like they should had the Milwaukee road join in the hill lines. Because before the Milwaukee road built its pacific extension. James Hill offered to purchase Milwaukee road to serve as connection to Chicago for the Great Northern. But he was turned down. If James hills offer had been accepted and knowing he would still later purchase the Burlington route. Both the Great Northern and the Northern Pacific could have had two connections to Chicago instead of one.
MLWK-NP would have been the the better match then MLWK-GN. as it is now BN preferred GN's route west of Minneapolis anyway. NP and MLWK were fairly close in many areas, and outright paralleled in quite few across Montana, idaho and Washington. MLWK could have done a lot of consolidation giving it much stronger financial base in the west long term. This would given both roads one good route across the divide (As NP/MLWK parallel, the NP line could have been abandoned, or absorbed as a double track. They were that close in spots), instead do one with two, and the other with one.
Truth be told Northern Pacific should've been left out of the Northern Lines merger. NP had bond issues which would haunt BN. GN+Milwaukee+SP&S+CB&Q should have been the merger. Then they could've scrapped Milwaukee's Pacific Extension from Judith Gap, MT to Renton, WA.
The NP had plenty going for it: being a Land grant road it had tons of natural resources to bring to the table! Milwaukee Road's Pacific Extension was a joke, as you point out. In your example, you'd pull up most of it! What kind of partner is that? BN was truly GN/CBW- centric.
Even though the BN wasn't created until 1970, the GN and the NP, jointly, had voting control of the CB&Q. That control came about, because the UP started buying CB&Q shares, in order to gain control of the Burlington and obtain a link between Omaha and Chicago, as well as a more direct route between Chicago and Denver.. I wonder what U.S. railroading would look like today, if the Union Pacific had gained contol of the Burlington? At the very least, the GN and the NP would probably have had to send the Empire Builder and the North Coast Limited, respectively, to Chicago via the CN&W or the Milwaukee Road.
Maybe we all didn't appreciate BN and Conrail when they were around. Part of our theory is the Big Green and Giant Blue painting of the two fleets kind of lulled railfans into liking them because both roads gobbles up fan favorites! These solid colors didn't always show up so well in slides and their trains looked too much the same time and time again. Even though now we all realize their paint schemes were actually really cool compared to now!
Could have been worse Conrail had considered keeping Black and white. For a short time they thought about solid Brown and gold for a color scheme similar to the Monon Railroad as well.
That canal crippled those railroads - plus it introduced Ralph Budd. Did you miss that? Or did you miss how Roosevelt tampered with anti-trust weapons against James Hill?
Well yes, because that was when Hill filed for the merger! The federal government blocked the merger in 1902 until finally allowing it to proceed in 1970. They basically had to after allowing the politically connected Pennsy and New York Central to merge 2 years earlier.
I had this DVD years ago as a kid, it's one of the reasons why I love the Burlington Northern!
We agree, this movie made us love the BN much more after we learned the real story. They were an Epic Railroad in so many ways. Thanks for your support!
An often overlooked suburb of Chicago, I was so happy to see old footage of my hometown rails in Clarendon Hills, IL at the 29:15 mark.
29.20 shows Western Springs. Remember waiting at a LaGrange crossing in the school bus during winter months and seeing the morning North Coast Limited eastbound into Chicago,- most notably after the zephyr had gone thru a storm the previous night and the lower third of each two-tone green passenger car and wheels (trucks) were loaded with light gray ice. Thought it must have been a tough run thru some really cold weather. Long train, this zephyr coming all the way from Seattle. Also, during the early 1960s went on a number of fantrips with 5632 and 4960 (missed but saw the 6315 and 5632 double-header at both LaGrange Road and the little bridge at Highlands station)…Sunday Only excursions mostly to Galesburg all the way in the baggage car for me were a big deal, though cleaning exposed face and ears not protected by goggles was quite a chord the night before starting back to school the next morning.
I lived in Hinsdale from 1965 to 1971. I used to go to the rr tracks and enjoyed the trains. as a high schooler.
He says that "most railroads were in good shape by war's end". That may have been true financially. But they were certainly worn out physically by war traffic added to much deferred maintenance due to the Great Depression.
true enough.
Railroad shop forces / track gang are unfortunately such overlooked heroes. Kept stuff running with a bit of luck and duct tape
The roads that excepted the financial help during the war years came out in fair shape at best. While roads that invested prior and opted out of excepting aid like the MKT for new locomotives, rolling stock and track and signal upgrades came back to bite them in the ass after the war when they asked for the help that had been offered during the war and the government said nope the war is over we don't need you.
@@onrr1726Highway administrations, waterway management (Corp of engineers), and fat cats in aviation all had no qualms with accepted the hundreds of millions the pocket padding gooberment reps were throwing at them.
I miss that old green BN livery. I am always stoked when I see an old BN car that hasn't been repainted.
Grinsteen Green & Cream was the worst paint imaginable. The SD 70’s deserved better. 😂😂😂
@@mattanderson6336 On the contrary in my opinion! The executive paint scheme is sharp!
@@JoshuaEhlenour break room at Northtown still has the BN executive paint scheme.
I caught one on an industry track last Thursday. Wish I'd have been able to get a picture of it.
Charles Smiley is the Goat of rail videos. My opinion.
Wow, thanks you for your vote it makes us here at CSP feel really to receive compliments like yours. It inspires us to keep "Bringing the Trains"! Have a super day!
@@charlessmileyvideosI don't like watching videos of trains going by I want to hear the history and the logistics of what is going on and nobody has done this better than you. Have always have had your DVDs as a kid starting with UP vintage West and have a pretty good collection. Pentrix was good but Charles Smiley is the undisputed GOAT of Railroad Videos and Railroad History.
Thanks! I worked two summers in the CB&Q Havelock shops as a Carman's Helper, a"Car Toad" in Q talk., and rode the Zepher from Hastings, NE to New York in 1966, and Hastings to Oakland, CA in 1969. Pullman all the way, and the bar car was great!
This was a cracking video of a great, majorly influential railroads history! I love this kind of history and as an Australian, it’s a great way to learn about the background of American railroads!
Thank you for posting this!
Thanks for watching, we have 50 movies on American Railroading at www.cspmovies.com
A fascinating account A thoroughly enjoyable history lesson in a subject about which I previously knew very little.
When I was younger, CSX was rife with foreign power and leasing units. It seems like a Burlington Northern unit rolled through about once a week, and it was usually an SD40-2. I really miss those days.
Thanx for the history lesson. I wish that BNSF after the merger had gone with the BN green and black color scheme or one of the Santa Fe schemes rather than the terrible pumpkin color scheme.
They were pushing it as a merger of equals, so they couldn't really just paint everything in the colours of one of the constituents.
I agree, but the pumpkin scheme is based on the GN scheme. The swoosh scheme is my least favorite.
Plus they have NP paint jobs.
Yes indeed
On the flip side, you have ATSF fans saying they should have stayed with the warbonnet scheme! While I don't like what BNSF has eventually become, especially in the last 5 years, it probably was for the best to have their own identity.
Actually, the GN's colors were Omaha Orange and Pullman Green. I'm old enough to remember those colors on the Empire Builder, before the GN switched to Big Sky Blue and white.
WOW what little video there was On the Western Pacific I whole-heartedly enjoyed it Wish there was more on Carlin & Elko runs shops turntables ❤
The 5632 was not scrapped. It is on display at the Colorado Railroad Museum in Golden, Colorado.
Wow, that is super news thanks for correcting us! That Museum is a great visit!
Wrong. You're thinking of 5629. 5632 is long gone.
@@davidmackey344 Yeah. CB&Q 5629 is at the museum. 5632 was illegally sold and scrapped right under the nose of her owner, Richard Jensen. He sued the people who scrapped that locomotive, and won the case. However, this caused Jensen to believe that the same outcome would always happen if one of his locomotives was lost. So, when Jensen was in serious financial trouble in the 1980's, he sacrificed his prized pacific (Grand Trunk Western 5629) in an attempt to get out of said troubles, but it didn't go as planned. That was because Jensen intentionally abandoned and used GTW 5629, leading to her demise. As a result, the railfan community disowned Jensen, and he died a hated man in 1991 at the age of 60 from poor health.
It's also a very odd and fascinating coincidence that Grand Trunk Western and Burlington Route had two locomotives with the same number (5629 and 5632), and they had similar outcomes.
The 5629 O5 is at the Colo. RR Museum in Golden. Truly wish what you are thinking about 5632 were true. I’ll go for complete restoration of 5629 and it’s temporary renumbering though. Even paint it brass engine gold for a special event.
35:30 whatever the name of this music track is i adore it especially in the ending of milw scrapbook
I used to live in Jonesboro, GA, so I model the Central of Georgia railway. But I have an old set of nice HO scale Gilbert coaches from the 1950's in the Northern Pacific livery with an F-3 engine and I love to run those since I've always liked the paint scheme of the NP. Main Street of Northwest. Cheers from eastern TN
Amazing historical footage and detailed facts makes this a must-see for any train enthusiast.
I've always found if peculiar that the SP&S was an Alco holdout despite the fact that its owners were solidly in the EMD camp.
It is interesting that you pointed that out, we were wondering the same thing too! What an motley mix of Alco power they had, but they were a cool railroad!
My guess is that Alco gave them better pricing on locomotives, and their owners didn't do anything to help them get more favorable pricing or financing from EMD. PRSL and PRR/PC were like this. The overall higher altitudes and climate might have made for better performance from the Alcos, too.
Alco was well known for producing marine diesal engines as was Fairbanks Moorse for ships, submarines and tug boats. Perhaps many of the guys who returned home from WWII were Navy and merchant marine Veterans and were more familiar and better trained with working on them compared to EMD, GE and Baldwin??
My Grandpa worked for the NP ... He said the Alco RS11 units would out pull their EMD GP9 counterparts like nobody's business. When the BN was formed the SP&S units were thrown in the mix... Their Alco units C424/C425 and the huge C636 were stellar units as far as brute strength. The big C636 units would out pull the EMD SD45 everytime... The problem was the EMD SD45 was 20 times more reliable... That was Alco's downfall... Reliability...the big C636 units were also very heavy and wore down or tore up light rail quickly
I always feel satisfied when I watch and learn more about our Railroad History . I am glad Railroads are still around !
Life without UA-cam ads. Imagine the possibilities.
There actually would be no "UA-cam" without ads it is a reality! And then there would be no possibility for anyone to see any of this!
@@charlessmileyvideos yes but the ads can be placed at the start or end of the videos. You just need to go into the settings to do it.
Me watching this on Brave: "you guys have ads?"
Firefox ad-blocker
Great video! Had the DVD.
Thanks, they were a super railroad with an epic story!
What a great video. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Thank you. Andy
Nice film. Very interesting. Like the vintage footage.
Well done video. Learned a lot.
Check out our other movies, most of them have history just like this one! www.cspmovies.com
39:22 NP 340 is still in use as SRY 119 after being retired from Montana Rail Link.
20:23 that is the old Depot in Minneapolis not the Union Depot in downtown St. Paul
Cool! The BN legacy was strong in MN!
The GN Depot in Minneapolis lasted until 1978. I remember picking up passengers there in my first year as a driver for Yellow Cab. The address was "Foot of Hennepin Avenue".
Skipped BN's 1980 merger with the Frisco. NP was the third transcontinental RR completed, after the first transcontinental RR meeting of the CP and UP at Promontory Summit, UT and the second transcontinental RR meeting of the SP and AT&SF at Deming, NM.
Great looking video, but the trailer doesn't mention the BN+Frisco acquisition.
We wanted to limit the merger to the 1970 original part in this youtube upload. In the full DVD production, the Frisco and other topics are covered.
Frisco came much later around 80 or 81
Those modern steam locomotives set aside for traffic peaks DID get used. When a Soviet wheat harvest failed in the mid 50's, Burlington reactivated their 4-8-4's. The diesels went out to the grain branches to get wheat from the grain elevators and they turned the mainlines over to the 4-8-4's. Similar peaks occurred on the Reading and Santa Fe. And when the Pennsy couldn't acquire new diesels as fast as their old steamers were wearing out, they leased new modern steam power from two of those same railroads, the Reading and Santa Fe as well as the RF&P.
And with the the exception of the Homestake pass line (which has not been pulled up), the majority of the NP through Montana IS still in service, until the beginning of this year as Montana Rail Link.
I liked there green color. Today there grain hopper cars look like there rusted with there dull paint. Another thing you don’t see in these videos is all the graffiti
Yes paul no graffiti what a treat! And you are right the Green on the BN Hoppers has certainly faded over the years. Surprisingly there are a lot out there in service
some in clean paint!
yall mad at graffiti? I bet you guys probably sit down to pee
super great video bro ❤❤😍😍
Right on, more to come! Thanks for watching!
The Four companies also attempted to merge in the 1920s. But the deal was give up all interest in the Burlington. Unfortunately neither the Great Northern or Northern Pacific was willing to give it up. And in one proposal Great Northern would paired with the Milwaukee road. While Northern Pacific would be paired with the Burlington. But honestly I feel like they should had the Milwaukee road join in the hill lines. Because before the Milwaukee road built its pacific extension. James Hill offered to purchase Milwaukee road to serve as connection to Chicago for the Great Northern. But he was turned down. If James hills offer had been accepted and knowing he would still later purchase the Burlington route. Both the Great Northern and the Northern Pacific could have had two connections to Chicago instead of one.
MLWK-NP would have been the the better match then MLWK-GN. as it is now BN preferred GN's route west of Minneapolis anyway. NP and MLWK were fairly close in many areas, and outright paralleled in quite few across Montana, idaho and Washington. MLWK could have done a lot of consolidation giving it much stronger financial base in the west long term.
This would given both roads one good route across the divide (As NP/MLWK parallel, the NP line could have been abandoned, or absorbed as a double track. They were that close in spots), instead do one with two, and the other with one.
with this, there should of been a heavy lawsuit or anti-trust case against them for sure.
3:07 of the sound of the CGW Alco
Super. 💙 T.E.N.
Excellent Video!
There problem was when they merged with the SF in the 90s they became a Nasty Corporation I worked for them then!
Yes, they were much better as an independent road before "BeanSnif" took over!(LOL)
Absolutely the BNSF became Comparable to how the Nazis.
My great grandpa worked for great northern and then BN
Please note the date and location in your videos.
I have this....on VHS.
You must be very old.🙃
I'm 51. @@FritoBuggers
Truth be told Northern Pacific should've been left out of the Northern Lines merger. NP had bond issues which would haunt BN. GN+Milwaukee+SP&S+CB&Q should have been the merger. Then they could've scrapped Milwaukee's Pacific Extension from Judith Gap, MT to Renton, WA.
The NP had plenty going for it: being a Land grant road it had tons of natural resources to bring to the table! Milwaukee Road's Pacific Extension was a joke, as you point out. In your example, you'd pull up most of it! What kind of partner is that? BN was truly GN/CBW- centric.
the Illinois railway museum has a orange Burlington engine
Even though the BN wasn't created until 1970, the GN and the NP, jointly, had voting control of the CB&Q.
That control came about, because the UP started buying CB&Q shares, in order to gain control of the Burlington and obtain a link between Omaha and Chicago, as well as a more direct route between Chicago and Denver..
I wonder what U.S. railroading would look like today, if the Union Pacific had gained contol of the Burlington?
At the very least, the GN and the NP would probably have had to send the Empire Builder and the North Coast Limited, respectively, to Chicago via the CN&W or the Milwaukee Road.
Burlington Northern Railroad is a history of BNSF Railway.
Very Good
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it!
Use to run buy my house in North Plains Oregon
They have to get more cross country trains with feeder trains, just like busses. 😊
I’m pretty sure that Ralph Budd and Ed Budd were actually cousins.
In a way, he never answered his own title. But it's alright.
The rest of the video does bring some conclusions.
Hill also built united railway
Orange and black beats green and black any and every day of the week! 😉
Funny how it is, these days, I even miss the BN and Conrail, go figure....😆😂
Maybe we all didn't appreciate BN and Conrail when they were around. Part of our theory is the Big Green and Giant Blue painting
of the two fleets kind of lulled railfans into liking them because both roads gobbles up fan favorites! These solid colors didn't always show up so well in slides and their trains looked too much the same time and time again. Even though now we all realize their paint schemes were actually really cool compared to now!
Could have been worse Conrail had considered keeping Black and white. For a short time they thought about solid Brown and gold for a color scheme similar to the Monon Railroad as well.
Like his other video in the California Zephyr story, he got the direction reversed. East to West is logically the best.
Money?
Whyhishetalkngtoofast?😡
I seriously can't stand the narrator's voice. I'm sorry. 😂
🙄🙄 and watch it with the captions
Was it really necesssary to go back to Teddy Roosevelt's administration to tell the story of the 1970 merger?
That canal crippled those railroads - plus it introduced Ralph Budd. Did you miss that? Or did you miss how Roosevelt tampered with anti-trust weapons against James Hill?
Actually I'm glad you did. It gave me a much more complete understanding of the story. I've read about James Hill but that was many years ago
Well yes, because that was when Hill filed for the merger! The federal government blocked the merger in 1902 until finally allowing it to proceed in 1970. They basically had to after allowing the politically connected Pennsy and New York Central to merge 2 years earlier.
@robadams5799
I have to say that you are a demoncrat.
Reason why Bobby watch it again and listen
Great Video, Thanks for Sharing !
Thank God for Amtrak