Just a small thought… I find it so sad and ironic that “trans women are women” is a valid statement to so many who also tell less-traditionally masculine men “you aren’t a real man.”
I find the opposite actually.. The ones who tell feminine men "you aren't a real man" and call them a "little bitch" or "a pussy" are typically the same people who *DON'T* believe that trans women are women. I have yet to see the opposite if I'm being honest here.
@@azayzelderegis1655 it’s majorily feminists on the internet who want to “support” trans people and are anti-men or will spread this rhetoric that it’s okay for men to be feminine but deep down that’s now how they feel.
AKA The 'hypocrisy of the Narcissist'. Narcissists (the 'Woke') don't have any Self-Awareness, and directly 'Project' their own mindset and behavior instead (ie Racism, Fascism, Sexism, etc). It also enables the Narcissist to Deflect from Reality...as Narcs do. You'll see ALL elements which make up the Narcissist Left, do this. From BLM to Islam to the Female Narcissist to the Transgender Narcissist. It's 'Narcissist Projection'...a form of gaslighting abuse. Watch closely. 'Woke' Covert Narcissists tend to always describe themselves. 'Projection' is a primary trait of Narcissism.
Y'all bashing on the Christian guy with 5 points but he's not wrong. If the nonbinary guy is allowed to come with all his lingo the Christian guy can come with his. He's there to provide his point of view and it's a really solid point within Christianity. Yes, women can be leaders and can provide for their families and can show sacrificial love, but that is what the Bible specifically tells men they are supposed to do. Men are called to love their wives as Jesus loved the Church, which is he laid down his life and sacrificed everything for her.
I agree. You can just change “biblical” to “biological”. I am not even really Christian, but I believe the biblical principles for “gender” is exactly how we are biologically wired, MOST of the time. Of course their are outliers, but by in large it applies.
@@jonathandevereaux298 no? They were asked what it means to them. He's allowed to have his own view of what he views masculinity to be. People are allowed to have opinions and it doesn't mean they are automatically bashing or hating people who don't fit into that.
I think Amala took an extremely liberal point of view on the masculinity. Both hosts were extremely dismissive of Kacey’s point, yet him and Christian were the only ones who actually said anything with their answer on what is masculinity.
It was kind of annoying how she kept dismissing his point of view because they would not relate to a Christian point of view… what about a “non binary” point of view? How can anyone else relate to that? wasn’t the point of this to bring different view points together?
It’s not a “liberal take” to say that it’s not fair to attribute masculinity as only being associated with someone’s relationship with God simply because not everyone believes in him. It’s only fair to look at the biological and psychological aspects of it and how that translates into society. What they said were facts. 🤷
@@lilmupp875 yeah but it’s about what HIS opinion is about what masculinity truly is. He’s going to add his faith into it that doesn’t mean that’s everyone definition of it but at least he gave a definition set in stone rather than not giving a definition at all.
Griffin derailed everything. He had zero stake in the issue and therefore didn't belong there. It's good to know that perspective exists, though. He lets us know where things might be heading.
People.. ALL THESE MEN, are ALL too scared to be honest with what they really think.. other than Cowboy Man. Fathers are the MOST IMPORTANT ROLES in a child’s life. The #1 role
The same sex parent will be the biggest influence on them and the other parent will be who their self worth or lack there of is attributed to. A father to a daughter is the one who shows her how she should be treated with how important she is to him. Also she watches how he treats her mom.
Griffin is imo the only toxic person on that panel. Not for his masculinity (he very much had none) but for just being a very negative person who seemed to hate men. That is true toxicity.
Better than Christian who was damaged growing up, that he needed a man that could provide protection. At least Griffin seemed like a physically and emotionally stronger person.
@@thomasrosendahl2783 Christian just has daddy issues. It's a fairly common phenomenon. But Griffin has very real mental issues that will take years of therapy to overcome. Because of these issues he is a very hateful and toxic individual. I hope he can get help
Christian (who projected his daddy issues and fetishises of a masculine man) was arrogant and loud IMO, he only defended the male stereotypes because that’s what his kink is. And the cowboy guy was pushing his religion too much
@@Matthew-sl8dx Arrogance or a god fearing attitude are perfectly fine as long a you aren't beig toxic and hateful. Griffin literally shoots down every person's opinion and spews factually incorrect hatred towards men when he himself can't even recognise that he is a man. That level of self hatred is beyond anything the other members of the panel had.
Honestly I think using the word "energy" is quite silly. Children don't need to be around "masculine and feminine energies" they need to have both male and female role models in their life.
I'm about 15 minutes in and I'm not sure I can finish this because the commentary, in my opinion, is horrible. Amala and her Co host fail to see that men are not women. So them stopping constantly to say "but women can" or "but women do" whenever someone uses the words principled, responsible and the like is not thought out well. The reason is, again in my opinion, because the consequences are incredibly different. Because men are more geared towards violence and competition these words therefore have a completely different meaning to them and without a strong, let's say attachment, to these words for men you wind up with grapes, murders and many other awful things. Amala and her Co host do this discussion a disservice by brushing the thoughts off with a "but women can".
Modern women in america are led to believe that they are "smarter" than man, which fuels their self confidence which leads to these type of embarasments whnever women discuss any topic, they SIMPLY CANNOT BE WRONG
@@fugana5073 well its not necessarily a matter of intelligence. its that women tend to process information from a more emotional lense and in turn end up arguing the same way, whereas men typically process and argue from a more analytical lense.
@@leah6997 in general, emotional arguments are not valid and thus not intelligent arguments. "I feel like" or is not a logical argument and the other group did a lot of that.
I think there have been historical mens spaces where we shared our frustrations, emotions, and perspectives both safely and among our peers. The barbershop, the happy hour spot, "man" Caves, the basketball court, boy scouts, etc. They werent perfect because there were still some social restrictions we sometimes carried into those spaces (e.g. don't cry like a **** but still tell your story) but if we did go full emotional from cry to expressed rage then it was something bad enough no one could deny. Men show emotion in limited spaces. This is where you heard terms like brotherhood. We may talk a good game of don't show emotions but let's be real...we did in these spaces if you really paid attention. Overtime these spaces began to be demonized ,degraded, blurred by outside opinions and integrations, excessive morality, and made unsafe for men to process their maybe flawed impulses in a place where they won't be ousted and persecuted by the general public and scarlet letter because of trigger happy labelling of someone desperately wanting to fight a -ism ,-ogny, or -archy. A man or boy amongst his peers to find out if his current struggles or thoughts are trippin or extreme and rounded out safely and quietly and so that he can go back into the excessively judgemental world that often handles those same ideas or moments poorly. I will concede that it only takes a few flawed unsavy from those spaces to cause a destructive retaliation to these spaces (it only takes one negative).. like wreckless sabotage by scandel. These spaces were not necessarily among women and therefore it allowed true free expression of those rough edges so that iron sharpens iron. They still exist but now they are Walmart brand quality of those spaces and decreasing. Men hide their flawed emotions and struggle in even more limited spaces now that we have the "thought police" and don't know who will rush to persecute even among peers when they're just currently in that state and trying to figure it out. Someone won't just go hey..That's not it man.....instead they go full fire and brimstone and ostracize beyond rehab. Social justice doesn't rehab well either by its congregation. Same beast.
Yeah. I've been toying about with the idea that maybe men's clubs weren't such a bad thing. Maybe such things could be brought back and beneficial. I'm thinking a place when men can spend time without female interference. There could be a loud bar as a front where everyone can come, but with membership to men only, men could get in the back, have a silent space to relax or to work, maybe a small gym, maybe different spaces in which they could be engaging in different activities, maybe even access to certain services, like a psychiatrist/psychologist, classes for different things, I'm thinking singing and dancing (because singing is great for mental health and dancing helps with women), but also voluntary mentoring for young men for a lower subscription (for both the mentor and the mentoree), stuff like that. All of those things would help men be and become better men, and then when they'd go out in society, that'd be a net benefit for everyone. I know progressives would fight that tooth and nail, but well… progressives are not very good at identifying what's good and what's bad for the long term. The two main problems with this is that I'm not sure how legal that would be nowadays, but also, it would be super expensive, both to put in place, and then to get it to run indefinitely (subscriptions would be for already rich people basically).
I think masculinity is an aura of strength, protection, knowledge, stability, hardness.. I think femininity is an aura of softness, nurturing, feeling, fluidity, emotion. Both men and women can have all these traights to varying degrees. But because it is more an aura than a tangible it is hard to define in words.
Traits of masculinity are the desire to father children, be a strong dependable protective husband, raise your children & be a father and family head with strong principles, adore your family, they are your whole world and you are their leader.
The most valuable purpose of a man on this planet is to build a family provide, protect, guide, and prepare them for the future. What is more important as a man?
I noticed Amala and Talor really struggled with why someone wouldn't let go of what they believe and just make other arguments that others could agree with, but the thing is, when you find the truth and know what the truth is, you don't need to keep searching, and you are definitely not going to shy away from sharing truth with others because speaking the truth matters. Share the truth even if someone chooses not to believe it. Share the truth still.
1:21:22 yes!! Just showing these 2 vice videos back to back, one can see that the women there got more emotional/laughing maniacally/getting personally offended/... While the men here have kept it pretty respectful and not personal (-not getting personally offended by what the others said).
I can't stress how important it is for men to be present in a young boys life. If you don't have a strong father figure you're going to look for one anywhere else you can find it. My dad suffered with depression throughout my entire childhood and he didn't have the proclivity to be present for me because he couldn't even be present for himself. He'd be home but asleep or "working" in his attic office that was a hoarding disaster. I left home daily to enjoy freedom from this looming depression he exerted into the home and found refuge with friends, but I've hardly felt masculine in my life. Often times I've just felt like I'm existing day to day without a purpose. I turn 31 this year and I've finally started to feel like a man for the first time in my life but I keep finding mental roadblocks that slap me in the face and make me take pause in my pursuit of finding myself
Very interesting take, I’d argue it depends on the person, for example Christian admits me has daddy issues and wants to find that masculine image in his partner. Whereas I had a simillar situation but instead found it was motivating to make success for myself and not be part of this self devaluing idea of “if you don’t have a dad you will do this and this”. I don’t need anyone to be a dad for me or give me those ideas and I have found those within myself and life’s experience- without having to find a father figure to learn from
Griffin shouldn't have been on that panel. He was very judgemental and constantly blamed "Men" when valid points were brought up. Such as asking for help or mental health struggles. Having 2 hetero parents is not a Western society thing either. Many countries and cultures before us have had a mother and father in "traditional roles." If he doesn't want to have a traditional relationship or family, so be it. He shouldn't be so condescending to those who do.
If you speak French (and even if you don’t) there is a song called “Un Homme” by Jérémy Frerot which is all about the struggle of being a man in today’s world and what it means to be a man.
This commentary was disappointing because the previous panel was to define "woman," not femininity. This panel is about masculinity not "man." When the men gave definitions, you dismissed their opinions.
MAN 'a man' is a human being whose DNA suggests that they should produce male gametes. 'Being a man' is a notion based on an aggregated behaviour of men in a given environment. So, being a man is a process in which: 1. a male performs better in activities in which their attributes(common in males) allow them to excel more compared to women, on average. The attributes can be: - the general behaviour men show as a consequence of their genetic code. - the general behaviour men show due to the training by their environment on what their role should be. Therefore, masculinity is the average behaviour men show as result of their genetic code and learnings from their environment. WOMAN 'a woman' is a human being whose DNA suggests that they should produce female gametes. 'Being a woman' is a notion based on an aggregated behaviour of women in a given environment So, being a woman is a process in which: a female performs better in activities in which their attributes(common in females) allow them to excel more in compared to men, on average. The attributes can be : - the general behaviour women show as a consequence of their genetic code. - the general behaviour women show due to the training by their environment on what their role should be. Examples: - If, on average, men are physically stronger than women, and due to this they are asked and assigned to do physically demanding labour, then each of them is being a man. - If, on average, women are more intellectual than men, and due to this they are asked and assigned to do intellectually demanding labour, then each of them is being a woman. Clarifications: - The idea of ‘being a wo/man’ was meant to have a positive connotation. For people to excel in their occupations using their natural and/or learned behaviours. But of course some people in society decided to take this and give it a negative connotation. So people who believe the phrase does more good than harm will stand for it, and people who believe the phrase does more harm than good will not stand for it. - The assessment of ‘being a wo/man’ is based on average behaviour of sexes in a given culture. So, an individual’s behaviour is compared to an average behaviour seen from individuals of the opposite sex. The use of the label ‘being a wo/man’ is inappropriate to use if one compares an individual to an individual of the opposite sex. Some implications: - A male performing better on activities in which women, on average, do better compared to men as consequence of their attributes is said to be like a woman - A female performing better on activities in which men, on average, do better compared to women as consequence of their attributes is said to be like a man Some observations: - Most popular achievements are attributed to men so labeled as ‘being a man’ is likely to bring a positive connotation compared to ‘being a woman’ - Women have struggled to achieve certain needs and wants that men had, so, being labeled ’being a woman’ is likely to bring a negative connotation than ‘being a man’ - A man who sees another man do an activity which women, on average, do more of compared to men, will likely label them as ‘being a woman’ - A woman who sees another woman do an activity which men, on average, do more of compared to women, will likely label them as ‘being a man’
I can understand all 5 power point topics he presents. He states it at the beginning. Yes, Amala, we all have to be strong, but Men are meek - Strong like a big horse and Controlled enough to do small things like to open the door, change a tire, get the mouse, bury the Guinea Pig, and speak to his children as THE Authority figure that is with his wife and loves his family.
After 4 minutes in: for me masculinity is Aragorn from "The LOTR" At the end of the comment on the video: still convinced that Aragorn incarnates masculinity. Great video! :)
How is it that there is a man dressed like a woman who doesn't identify as a man, on a panel when the headline clearly said that they acquired people who identify as men? He has no business in this conversation.
If I'm to be completely honest, I found the vice debate itself and Amala's coverage to be lacking. Not worthless, as she makes a few notable observations, just not quite satisfying as a whole. Despite this, I would not be opposed to seeing the second half of the video being covered. The extra time and, possibly, the perusal of some alternate perspectives, might make her coverage and discussions about the topics a bit more robust and thought-provoking.
When I think of masculinity, I immediately think of the two most influential men in my life: my grandfather and my husband. They were and are reliable, dependable and the leaders of the home. While as a woman, my responsibility is care of our home and child. My husband is the provider, protector, and partner. We share the responsibilities of raising our child. He is unafraid to be funny, silly and attentive. My grandfather and my husband are(were) the leaders of the home. My husband does not expect me to be the warrior and fight all the battles, he takes the lead and I step in as needed. Both of these men are (were) the spiritual leaders of our home.
Thats my mom 💀 shes gen x and she just wants to be a normal person she just doesnt care and she doesnt get any of the new political topics she just wants a good person to run the country my mom is 40 and still slaying
I don't think that all women want men to pay, walk on a certain side of the street, open the door, etc... But I think it would be fair to expect your partner to be there and share the work load with you. To have someone who's gonna take care of you and the family you create together THE SAME WAY you take care of them.
As a woman l, I find it VERY revealing that this panel seems to only contain people who were born male. Women need to cede our spaces and be quiet when men want to involve themselves in our business but don’t dare ask men to do the same. Idk maybe I’m wrong and a couple of them just “pass” really well but this is so insulting if that’s not the case.
I wish Amala would be more open mind and respectful when it comes to Christianity. The fact that someone does not share her values does not mean they are wrong, and laughing about it and not respecting their believes just show how immature she is in this topics. I truly loved her ideas and really thought she was wiser, but as more as I watch her videos the less I admire her.
Whos murdering all these women on their first date? Police should maybe look into this if there are serial killers doing this?? Strawman statements about straw men for straw men
I think people get lost with the phrase “toxic masculinity” because they think it’s describing that something about masculinity is toxic. No, the key word is “toxic”. You can be a toxic woman, a toxic teammate, a toxic friend or partner…. The list goes on. The dude in the pink shirt was closest to the truth I think. When you indulge in classic masculinity to the point of Andrew Tateing it up, that’s toxic. Why is his masculinity toxic? Like the Christian man said, he’s not about being humble or providing for his partners or having honor or being spiritual. He’s toxic because he bends real masculinity and a role of leadership to mean everybody serves him, he has no boundaries and can sleep with whoever and do whatever while his girlfriends are all corralled. Financially speaking there’s no team. If you’re associated with him then your money is his money and it never goes the other way around. Again, I actually know a woman pretty well who is an Angie Tate and who I would describe as toxically feminine. Never worked a day in her life, controls the money her partner makes, manipulates him and doesn’t let him buy anything he wants with his own earnings, cruel to him and hyper controlling. She can talk to whoever but he can’t even mentor a female in a very appropriate way just a tiny bit when he’s an excellent resource for her. Again, I think we really need to focus on what’s toxic. Men and masculinity are not innately toxic. Nothing is unless you’re talking about abuse, exploitation, or manipulation. Two better questions would be, “What aspects of traditional masculinity are toxic?”, and “What aspects of masculinity are positive and valuable?”.
Can't be masculine without defined gender roles. The roles dictate what masculine is and what femininity. The base is... what is a man and what is a woman.
i think its great that the man in the cowboy hat is constantly going to his faith. that is what a Follower of Christ is called to do. we can not and should not separate our privet life and our public life. our whole life and being comes under the reign of Christ. truth is to be spoken fearlessly especially in a group like this.
First, male, female, men, women are all terms that have been used to distinguish a child when born. Those that were born with male or female sex organs were either termed a boy or girl or male or female. Once they reach adulthood they are either termed a man or woman (referring to either an adult human male or adult human female. We use words to describe something in life. Every time someone invents something, they must define it because it doesn’t fit the definition of things that came before that were similar. You wouldn’t try to force someone to start calling a book something else because you have created something that doesn’t fit the previous definition. Books were termed for one thing where magazines or pamphlets were defined differently. I believe all people have their own free will to live or identify how they feel, but so do those who don’t believe or feel the same things as you. Where some transgenders want to be a different gender than what they were born as, so they “identify” as such, its just that, they identify as something, but unfortunately, they are not. If they were, why would they “identify” as it? You don’t have to identify as something that you are, only as something you are not, it should go without saying. I believe masculinity and femininity originate with our hunter- gatherer ancestors. Men had their strength and protectiveness, a provider for the family, to be courageous, especially when facing something seemingly beyond their capabilities, to not be daunted by what “can’t” be done. Women had their compromising nature, the caregivers of all things….. to their emotionally struggling men and their kids, the ones who kept things right and in order, as well as being an unconditionally loving mother. These “gender roles” are not gender exclusive. Men can cook or clean or care for the kids or women can be the providers and do the tinkering around the house fixing things that need be. However, the stability of the household, of a good family with great structure depends on the fulfillment of these roles. Nature is objective whereas nurture is subjective. Studies have been conducted where boys wear blue and girls pink or boys play with trucks and army men and wear pants and women play with dolls and dress up or wear dresses are mostly due to what is put in their hands and on their bodies. Boys wouldn’t know it isn’t proper or normal for them to be wearing a dress if they grew up wearing them or they hadn’t been around only girls wearing dresses, the same as women wouldn’t think anything of wearing pants (in todays times, anyway) if their parents only dressed them in such. There was a study that showed when given the option of working with other members of the same sex to get something done or figure out or to do it alone and both have the same results whether you work together or alone, the majority of men chose to do things themselves wheras the majority of women chose to work together. Men are more competitive while women are more cooperative; men strive to be the best or do more than others, whereas women tend to just get it done regardless of how.) And as far as toxic masculinity goes, I don’t believe there is a such thing. Masculinity is not toxic. Therefore, it is the action or belief that you posess of masculinity that is toxic. Like saying “bad love” Love is never bad, if the emotions between people are bad, then they are not from love, love is good and patient and kind and altruistic, not self serving…..So ultimately, if some idea or belief you posess of masculinity is toxic, then it is, in my opinion, a fallacy. A false construct that some experience or some person has instilled in you.
I know right. Amala and her partner went on a tirade about how true masculine men are suppose to be self sacrificing. That was what the Christian guy said IN THE BEGINNING and they dismissed him! Tf??
There is one simple definition of masculinity. That’s that masculinity is being more interested in things. Femininity is being more interested in people.
Amala when a modern woman goes on a first date to think she's looking for a lifetime mate right then seems naive to me. We have experienced over 60 years of feminism which has severely eroded confidence in men and seriously elevated entitlement in women.
Masculine is traditionally a protector of women and children (will fight if they have to), a provider, a leader, stoic in nature, that makes decisions based on logic where emotions are secondary. Feminine traditionally is soft, intuitive, nurturing, empathic, light-hearted, helpful, generous, kind, compassionate, and fiercly protective of their children and elders. I may have missed or not articulated perfectly, but these are the main differences.
Women do tend to live their lives heavily in emotion, whereas men are deep logical thinkers. My argument is that emotion and intuition are another form of logic. We *feel* what is right. Masculines *analyze* what is right based on comparable facts. I think both can be correct; the only difference is how we arrived at our decisions.
@@dmargot2828 Lol. Women always define things in a way that benefit them : Men are tools that need to be stoic and self sacrifice for women. Women get to let their emotion run wild, without logic and fact but while men need to deeply thing and educate themselves but should not be thought as more correct than women. Nice.
Difference between a woman and a man... as controversial as it may be... women are physically weaker than men.. IT isn't that women can't do the same tasks men can or vise versa... it gets down to physicality... a weaker man that modifies his body to look like feminine can still beat a female from birth... it still boils down to...? For me as a female.... "So you couldn't make it as an actual P.P. male and just defaulted to technically beating females...? in Womens' league...? You have to pick the a field you will dominate regardless to feel something..?" that isn't feminine or masculine... it's cowardice..... Neither woman OR man....
This is the stupidest reason as ever.... men can pee standing up. The amount of readiness for predators exponentially widens the gap between the differences between men and women.
This is a stupid question. Masculinity is based on how you are raised and your environment. A man is a leader/head of his family. He is on his purpose to provide for himself and his family. A man establishes the structure of his home to provide a safe environment for himself and his family. A man bases his decision and navigates through conflict on logic and suppressing emotional outbursts. This comes back to establishing the structure of the home and safe environment.
For me personally a date should be about pursuing something serious, I don’t see the whole point of going through a date and dinner just to have sex and then leave. I feel like that’s the problem
Men and women can do many of the same things and others are unique to each gender. The things that they can do the same in general are done ,expressed differently , and to different degrees along with why.
I actually disagree with you here, You say we know masculinity is a naturally thing and is inherint in guys more than girls, Yet you keep coming back to Well Women can do that to so then.. WHAT IS MASCULINITY.. With that thinking you are pretty much saying well ok men is just his genitalia without saying it, NO! The point is although both can have pieces of each other, The one that naturally exudes these traits more than the other should not be overcome by or take on the more feminine role and vise versa, call it a box or a social construct but they aren't , they are natural biological roles that your own gender puts you in, even if there are outliers, there will always be outliers but that does not mean that society will function correctly or be more orderly if both genders don't share in there own ..yeah roles, When we say our wife or our man is our other half.. YES! Because they exude the traits on an entirely different level than the typical male, The man takes up the mantel and strength and protective role, Women can do this but to what degree is most efficient, If the women took this role from her husband, who is more likely to be efficiant in strength , protection, taking control in the scenerios that he needs to so that his family can thrive, In other words just because women can step out , that does not mean they should do it over the man and the man shouldn't do that over the women, The point is , they can.. but should they, and how would that work out better for the biological role that isn't normally filled there, Majority don't have the sterness to negotiate, run into conflict for good reasons, protect the home from an instruder, handle the problems with courage , the point is, your removing gender roles not constructed by society and a lot of conservatives would disagree with you on that, The missing peice to this puzzle is there are GENDER ROLES naturally and just because some people can step out of their roles which that part IS socially constructed, that does not mean they should or it is HEALTHY! You contradict yourself in previous episodes as well, as like i said, the male role in the home, WHAT HAPPENS when signle mother parents are all they have, THEY LOSE a huge part of themselves growing up as men, they need their dad to navigate this world as a good man, and they end up with all the stats you listed before, More likely to commit crimes, etc. Why is that>\ ROLES! Also the christian guy shouldn't be ignored because he is not just using his faith, Keep in mind this was the idea of masculinity In a book THOUSANDS of years old, The majority of the teachings on being masculine and even warnings that a man SHOULD NOT step into the femine role were in the old testiment, Means that way back then this is what they observed masculinity at its rawist and without the politics, just being in their society, and no not just one place, these books were spanning differnet parts of the world, so yeah you can use the bible, it is a historical book, you can use it as a historical book! It's what the people believed back then, so why did they believe it, It wasn't just God, it was what they observed so if you DON'T believe in the bible you could say they created God in this image of what they thought masculinity was based on observation! Stop excluding religious texts just because you haven't manage to understand it AS a historical book that mentions real people , their real attitudes PLACES you can observe in history, It was keeping a record like any other historical book , you could throw out the supernatural and it would still be left with genuine history.
I think protecting women and just vulnerable people in general, shouldn’t necessarily be a masculine trait. I think it’s more of a human trait right? Like how a woman would take care of another vulnerable woman if she was in trouble. I would protect a vulnerable woman wherever I could, but if I see a guy who’s idk getting attacked, I’d want to step in and help to. I wouldn’t say those necessarily make me more of a man, but just a good person
The equivalent to a woman getting murdered on the first date is not the equivalent of a man getting tricked. A nice equivalent is a woman asking to get picked up from her place and her real boyfriend is there to rob you or worse. I swear they pick the dumbest people to do panels. Next time get genuine male role models to have this discussion.
The difference between masculinity and feminity isn't what you do it's how you do it. Men are seen as stronger, rougher, while women are more nurturing and kind. One thing I've heard that I agree with is men are driven b avwant to do nothing. Ie: get everything done so you don't have to go anything Women are driven by a want to do something. Ie: drama, making something out of nothing. Women can be masculine, men can be feminine
What does God say a man is? A provider. A protector. The head of the woman and marriage. A woman is made from man by God.. To be protected and provided for.. and taken care of with her being his helper.. Believe it not.. You’ll figure it out one day after your death and that’s all that will define man and woman.
1:18 "Women might not date you (if you've been sexualy assaulted)"= same for women: men might not date you if you've been assaulted. Actually, I would argue that this is the main reason why women are very "more vulnerable". Men might see you as disgusting if some people don't believe you (that you are a victim) and think you are just promiscuous. Promiscuity matters more to men than to women. Think of the importance of virginity to most religions, the way a divorced woman has no value in some cultures, etc. So to a woman, it can be equally (if not more) shameful to admit she was sexually assaulted.
So this is bit old fashioned but holds true till date . I hope you guys start to understand this as soon as you can. A man - is someone who is married to a woman ( someone who is mature enough to take the responsibility of having a wife , and family) this is why if you were a king you would need to get a wife before you get the throne or right after. Marrige is the sign of manhood. In most eastern countries if you’re not married you’re still just a boy. Marrige is the door to manhood A woman - is someone who has a child. (A child comes with a lot of motherly instinct and a ferocity to protect your child) Until you have a child you’re still just a girl. That’s eastern definition and no matter how much time goes it remains the same . I’m not taking arguments about oh what about gay marrige and shit ! That’s not a marrige it’s just an adoption form .
I certainly agree that as a man or a woman, you are free to live your life however you see fit, that being said, a masculine man is a certain type of man and that doesn't change. Thats not to say you have to be a masculine man or a feminine woman. Though I think deep down man are looking for feminine women and women are looking for masculine men, so if you decide to live your life like a feminine man, don't be surprised if you struggle to have a relationship with women.
Generally when it comes to romantic relationships men need to feel respected and appreciated. Women need to feel cared for and secure (both need to feel loved). Masculine and feminine are manifestations of those respective desires. This is why it's considered masculine for men to pay the bill at dinner and feminine for women to expect that. Even if the woman has a decent job and is capable of paying half. This dynamic is an innate characteristic for both sexes and is as old as human existence. There are exceptions to every rule but no amount of social engineering will overide the fact that this is how the majority of men and women are.
Ouch! Poor cowboy, you guys ripped his what is a man answer right off the bat! It's not his fault he knows exactly what HE thinks a man is. It's not his fault he is on a different level than these other guys. It's just his answer. I mean, at least he gave one!
His answer, aptly, was extremely manly! The expectation nowadays is that you're in crisis, struggling to find yourself, overcoming trauma and toxicity and finding a new way of being beyond the evil 'patriarchy'. That is what gets applause. Men are basically supposed to hate themselves as they are and work on being 'better'. He totally flew in the face to today's orthodoxy.
Exactly! The thing about this question of what is masculinity is that it’s changed so much. Before w what gender roles which made a distinction between women and men. Back then masculinity was being the one out getting money and providing for your family. You were the protector and the one who was strong while women were the opposite so it was easier to define what is masculine and what is feminine. Of course there are exceptions to this, there are women who have to take on more masculine traits because of their environment. This isn’t a perfect world so those idea of masculinity will shift and change if you don’t have something grounding it like faith. These things are very dependent on how you grow up and your environment. Although men are the ones who are supposed to provide (in my opinion as a Christian) and women are the ones who are able to sit back and let their husband lead because he loves her and she trusts him. It doesn’t mean in other situations the woman will be the one who has to provide for her family because the man didn’t do his job and instead left her to do that on her own. When you aren’t grounded in something masculinity and femininity can be whatever you want.
@@aranisles8292 yes.. also white guilt. All this toxic masculinity debate seems to keep white men at the centre because they hate themselves and others too because society and politics influences people to believe they are racist as well. Crazy times.
Cowboy is not losing me! He IS defining what masculinity means to him...he is upholding a vision and morality that many people understand and agree with. His voice is relevant even if nobody in the room can relate to it.
@@AdidTurreno because to him God shows him what a man should do to fulfill the role of ‘man’ or husband/father. You don’t have to agree, but a large portion of the U.S population are religious
@Andrei Tudor To people who center their lives on following God ( not only christians) this is their moral foundation...their lived experience as it were, so why is it such a barrier to people to listen to? Seems to me that his viewpoint may be just as illuminating to people listening as any of the others shared in this discussion.
@@caliconservative20 Sure, but only for people who already believe in god. If he talked about the themes and values and morals he wants people to follow without saying "god said it so it must be so" more people might be able to resonate with him who aren't christian.
Because a debate means we need different opinions from people who will challenge the other side's beliefs, so I think they did a good job with the discussion
@@anyadarlingg He really didn't have any beliefs. He was just a contrarian for the sake of being combative. Even the other gay gentleman had to put him in his place which was awesome.
Man, my first thought. Their main goal seemed to be to intrude on the space and be combative and non-productive. Everyone else seemed to have an approach of good faith and to develop a point.
A failure of understanding the basics here: Just because a trait is attributed to females, doesn't exclude it from being a masculine trait. Both men and women nurture for example, but they do it in different ways that provide balance to a child. - You need to avoid falling into the trap of binary or exclusionary thinking.
That's exactly what I was thinking at rhe beginning. My wife is one of the strongest people I know, which I would consider a masculine trait, but that doesn't make her manly. I'm caring, compassionate, and affectionate to my wife and my two daughters, but that doesn't make me womanly. Her shortsighted view that if something is masculine that a woman can't possess that that trait is absurd
Thank God for this comment I see this all the time with young people and why I do not like listening. The sort of people who believe themselves to be intelligent but still think things are black and white that aren’t is overwhelming. I always think as Socrates said “the more that I learn the more I realize that I know nothing”
I think Amala os more so doing that out of necessity. Like no one is defining so let’s just define it first before we move on and dissect it? Find what is just for men and men only and what for women and women only (that can always not be adhered to but th here IS consequences to actions and you must deal with the fall out.
I had a guy argue with me that his body con dress and makeup was masculine. I was like, wear what you want, but do not try to convince me that you’re masculine
The action of wearing whatever you want and holding your ground even when people give you shit for it is pretty masculine, but the clothes themselves are definitely not masculine.
@@notmyrealname8282 It's basically just a figure hugging tight dress, that's meant to accentuate your curves. I don't know what curves a man hopes to accentuate by wearing one, but still......
Literally commented on there how respectfully civil the host and guests were compared to the recent feminism video Vice had. One person told me I was upholding the patriarchy as men are taught to hide their emotions and they become scared when confronted with people being emotional. Like no, the main problem most people had with that video was just a bunch of rude jerks laughing & yelling over one another as they tried to talk.
Emotional men tend to be violent men… this is why we learn to control our emotions. It’s that simple. I don’t know why people want to glorify drama. Sober minded logical and civil. That is how men ideally communicate regardless of feelings.
also the moderator is doing a wonderful job here in giving chances to everyone to speak their mind and enganging more with the panel. I feel like the moderator in the feminism panel didn't do enough "moderating"
Did you see the feminist panel before the last one you're referring to? Those women were respectful and had good conversations. The panel you speak of was just a mess. Very diabolical personalities
@@nofearonlylove21 I was talking about the more recent femnist panel from two weeks ago being a bit of a trainwreck, the one from 3 years ago though yes was a lot better. Edit: I’m just comparing this discussion to the more recent Femnist discussion because there closer in time frame with one happening directly after the other.
I’m confused as to why they were mad about the definitions given for masculinity by saying “women can do that too” Yes women can do them, but that would still be masculine. She even admits that she has masculine traits, but still didn’t recognize that they were the definitions given by the panel? Peculiar…
There were a few times I was confused about that. Seemed to me like people were mixing up “masculinity” (personality), “being male” (biology), and “male gender roles” (social/action).
My thoughts exactly. There is no such thing as a definition of masculinity that cannot be attributed to some women as well. It's frustrating to watch her look for the impossible.
God I miss the good old days of the 80s and 90s when men were men and women were women and the definition of what is a woman (an adult human female)and what is a man (an adult human male) was crystal clear. I hate to say it but I think that the feminist movement has actually emasculated men with everyone throwing out toxic masculinity so badly that men don't even know what a man should be anymore. I get so tired of seeing men wearing make up, jewelry and women's clothes with facial or body hair. I have respect for transgender men/women that suffer from gender dysphoria but the non binary group are just delusional or mentally ill. Human's aren't non binary and gender has never been and never will be a social construct John Money's own John/Joan case that he hoped would back his gender theory proved the opposite that it doesn't matter how you raise a child nature always wins. Sorry I am out I should have known the non binary man would go there.
My mom and stepdad moved to California and my stepdad use to present as a very generic male. Now he dresses like a woman. Wears makeup, women’s jewelry, and all that. My mom says it’s just the culture out in California but it’s very hard to accept here in Florida. I’m sorry but Gender is biological. Male, man, boy are humans with male reproductive organs (testicles, sperm, p***s) necessary to fertilizing the egg of a female. Female, woman, girl are humans with reproductive organs that are capable at bearing children (uterus, ovaries, eggs). And just because some people aren’t capable of these roles doesn’t mean that they are some other gender. No they have those parts they just don’t function to the standard. People use infertility or sterile as means to tear down this structure. But infertile women still have the organs associated with biological females.
I too miss the good old days where everyone agreed that facts were concrete without question rather than now where there are delusional people that say that a fact is fluid and subjective according to how they feel.
The irony is the only one on the panel who exhibited behaviours that I’d describe as “toxic” was literally the one that doesn’t even identify as a man or masculine. Griffin was rude, condescending, arrogant and dismissive and was the only one to actually attack any other person on the panel rather than dealing with the ideas being put forward. The most feminine dude was the most toxic.. I think there’s something to that.
He exemplifies stereotypes of womanhood like a costume. No woman I know acts like this. I've never known catty women like the other vice video either. It's so weird
That’s because Griffins ideology preaches “we are right about everything, it’s impossible for us to be wrong because we know everything about everything”. Griffin is insecure and weak, so not surprising he cut everyone else down
Simpus Maximus must've been expecting her to move in the same night and start paying bills or something. Either that or he just can't plan more than 12 hours ahead.
My thoughts were he can afford it, but it almost feels like the effort is pointless since he keeps getting rejected. Also I have heard many women (not friends of mine) say they will go out on dates with guys to get free meals, drinks, have a good time, etc. Even if they may not be romantically interested in the guy. Personally I think he needs to pick cheaper dates ideas, and maybe stop using dating apps if he is doing so, cuz a lot of women just go on there to pass free time and gain validation, and not take it very seriously 🤷 it's sad
@@anyadarlingg whether consciously or not, many men think they need to purchase a woman. Society encourages the idea that women are objects, emotionally unstable ones, that need to be placated. This can be seen with expressions like "happy wife, happy life" as if the man must constantly bend the knee. Guy just needs more self respect and to date someone his equal so he won't feel the need to castrate himself.
He's either going to a bar or a very fancy restaurant. Either way if he has regret afterwards, he either can't afford these places or has silly expectations. I suspect if they slept with him he wouldn't have regret, which is probably his first mistake. If he is looking for a actual partner he should start that relationship off on an honest note. The type of girl that won't look at his badly for not spending 150 bucks on her is the likely the type he may have success with.
It would weird me out if a man spent a $150 on a first date or even a 3rd date unless he had the right attitude to go with it. The fact that this guy over spent and he’s complaining about something he chose to do because it didn’t achieve his desired results shows he’s most likely one of those men that hover and too eager to please. A think the term is beta male.
I have been with my husband 7 years. I have seen him cry 3 times. He's seen me cry probably 3 times a week average. I honestly NEED his emotional stability to live properly. When he's too rigid, my intuition and feelings come in handy to him. He sat down 2 nights ago and told me how time has shown him that my intuition has been right. I told him how his reasoning has helped me analyze certain situations. We are built to compliment each other in so many ways. We are 2 pieces of a puzzle.
Wow!!! That's why marriage is so important. You complement one another and you both strengthen one another in areas where one may need support and you both communicate with one another. This is beautiful. ❤
I love how the cowboy articulated himself in the opening. Griffin calls himself non-binary which doesn't even exist, but the cowboy shares his beliefs and you guys talk down about him for it? Why? Everything he said was spot on. Recognizing yourself as a creation made by a Creator is a good first step to defining any part of the human experience, especially masculinity. Do you really think the man in the pretty dress has a more grounded sense of self than the man who is Godly? Do better.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I was surprised that they compared him to a child during show and tell. This gentleman was giving his prepared thoughts on what he felt defined masculinity. Again, thanks for your perspective on that moment. :)
I’m sure he knows about grandma’s wooden spoon. Besides a symbol of authority it doubles as a few other things. But, basically to train your mind. Almost like the Pavlov’s dog experiment. You see her with that spoon you either expect food or to be reprimanded🤣
Not everyone is Christian, and many non believers have a sense of self. It’s not a pissing contest of who’s a better human being. So I don’t agree that someone who’s self proclaimed “godly” is always a good person solely for being a Christian.
@@joshuacavazos8869 I didn't say anything about anyone being a good person or better human. Non-believers may have a sense of self, but as Christians, we know that they cannot truly know who they are until they acknowledge who created them. That's our belief. And, regardless of religious beliefs, a man who thinks he doesn't have a human gender at all clearly does not know who he is.
I think this is the first time I've found myself pushing back against Amalas' opinions a bit. Also, it is a bit hypocritical to be like, "Don't pay for $150 date (which I agree), but then bring up your bf taking you on a memorable, expensive first date, lol. Also, since when are women ok with paying half for a date? Lol not where I am
I too found myself correcting her ignorance on the differences of men and women, this was obviously a place where she still retains some of her prior woke feminist beliefs. Also too, her male counterpart showed some emasculate thoughts and behavior, a product of modern society as it weakens men and destroys family units.
This was also my first time disagreeing with some of her points, especially at the beginning. There are still many things we all agree on, so I’m trying to hold on to that.
The half bill thing is more common in college type situations where it's understood not everyone has the money to pay for two people's meals potentially over and over if the date doesn't pan out. My husband paid for our movie tickets on our first date and I paid for dessert after. I guess it's also worth noting that I grew up with financial stress so a $150 first date would've freaked me out and made me think: "This idiot doesn't know how to manage money if he's just throwing it away on a first date!" but this combined with a more common concern that I think other women have which is: "I can't let someone spend this much money on me as it creates an obligation and now I don't know if I like him or if I just feel guilty for not just ordering a salad cause I'm *hungry*".
If you’re asking her out the ball is in your court. That basically means be the/a man and take charge. You want her. Not the other way around. If she doesn’t like it then obviously you gotta move on. But, clearly as the guy you’re attempting to impress her😂
I guarantee you when women say they want a man that's emotionally available, they mean a man that's a great listener. Us men like to think through our problems and figure out a solution, often solo. Women like to air out their problems by telling someone about it. Usually their boyfriend or husband. Summed up, as guys, listen to your girlfriend/wife. Be attentive, but DO NOT offer a solution unless she explicitly asks for help in that regard. This is just one of the major differences between men and women.
Amala, I think you are overlooking the unrealistic standards that men have to meet in modern dating. Which is shocking because you are fully aware of how much woke culture and feminism has taken over modern day women… so who do you think are on these dating apps? As a woman who is bisexual, it is a hell of a lot harder to try to date a woman than it is to date a man. They literally require so much for no reason/nothing in return. It’s hard to even have a conversation with a woman now a days. Do you know how many women’s bios name “food” as an interest or activity… like thanks for letting me know you’re human I guess? The things that modern women in the dating pool are asking for are NOT basic things. They’re not asking for men to walk on the outside of the curb for them lolll they literally don’t even care about that anymore. How modest of you.
My boyfriend grew up a sensitive momma's boy who was called a sissy by his dad constantly. He was told he wasn't a real man because he didn't play sports or do anything "manly." He's not feminine by any means, he's just more in touch with his emotions but is man enough for me. Full beard, tech nerd, plays DnD, and loves action movies. He's more masculine than that "they" on the panel by a long shot.
Your boyfriend sounds like a real catch! ❤ I often wonder if the reason why there's been such an increase in gender non conforming people is because they've heard so many messages stating that a male who acts too feminine is not a "real man", and a female who acts too masculine is not a " desirable woman". And now people are scratching their heads wondering why so many people have given into that criticism and are labeling themselves as non binary or trans. Just a theory. I could be totally wrong!
If that's the kind of man you want, that's cool. Seriously, but if he gets picked on while in a sphere of dudes that are highly testosterone filled he won't take it well. Same goes the other way, the extremes are just that way. This episode of Jubilee was not fair at all to me. Combined you may have the average guy but none of them showed what an average man would be and left out other nuances
Masculinity is just traits associated with the plurality of men. These would be positive attitudes towards sex, emotional stability (not meaning less emotions, but less variance in emotional state), and disagreeableness. I would also personally want to add an increased respect for meritocracy and hierarchy. Men in general respect men who have proven themselves even if they are generally disagreeable.
This is by far the best comment to describe the difference. One comment was like "masculine is logical, and feminine is emotional." Hahaha. Like have they never met a man? Maybe they were one idk.
Yeah. I felt this discussion addressed some good things but didn't address the 'fundamental points' of masculinity beyond the gender stereotypes which we love so much. Having a discussion about how accessible being a woman is would have been helpful or how you can build masculinity based on an idea of hierarchy and accomplishments with a discussion on how this isn't exclusive of 'women' but can explain why the classes exist in the first placeseparations
@@DelphineTheWorstBladeEver Right. A way better statement is 'Men respect hierarchy and there is a relative way for ascertaining when one man is more accomplished than another as reference through dating.' Hell, I recall when the asian guy started talking about being in the hole financially how Hasan referenced 'you need to do better. you need to be more attractive.' I feel that atleast references to the fundamental aspects of what makes masculinity.
I agree with your comment and how these traits are found conventionally in men really comes down to the biological differences between sexes. Due to differences in hormones; testosterone behavioural characteristics include increased aggression, dominance, impulsiveness, increased libido, social anxiety and neuroticism. This doesn’t include the physical differences testosterone provides such as increased muscle mass, bone mass, and fat distribution. Through hundreds of thousands of years we have evolved and used these biological traits as an advantage to our society and success (debatable), but mainly survival as a race. When you speak of respecting other men, it comes from the biological need to be dominant and being able to appreciate competition. It was the way we survived for 250,000 years. Men and women can have respect for their peers. So it doesn’t really speak to the core idea of masculinity in itself. It’s a byproduct of masculinity which is biological, can be measured and is not subjective.
@@rylan182 i mean, we disagree but you may be over essenntializing men a tad. There are plenty of societies in which what you described stands true but people doing the things dont have penises. What you described creates a natural distribution. What we have in the West as we understand it arose because of its cirumstances in relation to the aspects.
As always when you get a bunch of guys to come together to talk about masculinity the conversation is civil, humorous, and wholesome. Why did the women fail to have a conversation like this?
Because when males have conflict and the argument goes too far, violence is on the table, whereas females typically use social and reputational aggression. Females typically dont engage in physical violence, so they use language and social manipulation.
As a Christian, I 100% agree with everything the Christian guy said, and I find it really absurd that you guys just dismiss every word out of his mouth by saying he should stop talking about religion because other people won't agree... Everything he's saying is true. 100%. So whether or not you want to listen or reject it because you reject religion, is on you, not him. He should be able to speak truth clearly, as he is doing, and it's up to everyone else to decide if they want to accept that or not. The fact of the matter is, these gender roles and gender differences WERE established by God. That's true whether you believe it or not. So to say this guy should just not say that or not get into the fact that God is involved in this conversation, is really ridiculous. We are talking about how men and women were created to be... of course God is an important part of that conversation. If you want to leave God out of it, that's your choice, but I think people who leave God out of the conversation are missing a massive piece of the puzzle and will never be able to come to a full, complete understanding of what the final puzzle is supposed to look like. This guy's got all the pieces, and he's figured it out. You should listen to him, instead of automatically having a negative opinion of what he has to say because he's talking about God. Kinda sad, especially, to see a Christian man on your show having the same view that this guy should stop talking about God so much... I used to think like Taylor(?). But then I realized that I'm just trying to take God out of the conversation, to appeal to people who don't believe in Him, and that's not okay as a Christian. God is a part of the conversation, and I will not shy away from speaking about him because "people won't take me seriously." If people don't take me seriously because they don't want to face the reality that God exists and that they are morally responsible to follow Him, then that's their issue, not mine.
I COMPLETELY agree with you. You cant define these roles without God. I think they are just saying there is a better way to go about it. They are non believers, so you cant just say "Beleive in God. Have a Biblical worldview." They need to be evangelized in some sense. I think for these conversation we can bring up Christianity but we also need to bring up things that are undeniably true (even for non-believers) this will help cement our arguments even more.
As a non believer. If you say the path to being masculine or the path to anything really only happens through your mythology. I’m probably not listening to anything you say past that point because you’re trying to push me towards your mythology. A good friend of mine is a priest. You want to know one thing he’s never done when I’ve asked him for advice on a topic. Say that I needed to go to church or accept god. Now he has directed me to the Bible to read one of the stories to see if that would help me see my problem from a different perspective. But when you frame your life in a “the only way to live is if you follow the same path I am” way. You’re probably an asshole and I’m not going to listen. I feel the same when an atheist says a moral person can’t be religious, or when a religious person says the same. You’re showing that you don’t have the capacity to see anything outside your box.
Amala talks about how her BF took her to a really nice first dinner and how it meant a lot to her. Then she also talks about how if you can't afford 150$ dinners, tell the girl you don't have money and get a coffee..... haha. Man if only women could experience being a guy for a few months.
@@rockyroad179 If you don't do everything well in the first few interactions the "right" woman won't be getting to know you at all. She's on to the next guy who understands how to peacock perfectly, who has no moral qualms about lying and being fake to get what he wants. This is the very reason girls complain about douche bags constantly. ~30% of guys will do and say whatever they need to, and it works. The first few dates are very simple, it's the same as the first few conversations. You have to display value, taking a girl to mc donalds is going to be your first and last date 99% of the time. The "right women will care about time spent with you" is such a typical response. And yes, its true, ONCE she already likes you and you have done everything correctly to get to that point. Women build up fantasies in their mind of meeting the right guy all their lives and all the boxes that need to be checked, and this is fine. Tell me, in your perfect dinner date scenerio what restaurant are you at? Men only require one box to be checked when dating, is she attractive. This is an easy box to check and women often believe a guy is more into them, when the reality is that this is the only box they need to check and it's not hard. My advice to women in attracting the right guy, would be to imagine what other boxes this guy might have. What would it take to check the long term gf potential, have kids with, wife material, shared interests, caring, peaceful, good life teammate etc boxes. If you don't believe a guy sees that potential in you, he's only there because you're checking the first box. Ok, I'll stop ranting.
@@steph6109 That's exactly my point. A man must be able to "afford" the date that persuades a woman of his value. A woman does not. And Amala speaks as though this isn't important, when she herself admitted to finding and thus dating a man who could "afford" her more ideal date, while simultaneously telling men to just go somewhere cheaper. Women have far more criteria for who they select than simply looks when it comes to long term relationships. They are taught to from a very young age and it's part of evolution. And for good reasons. Doesn't it seem somewhat patronizing for someone who was attracted to the more expensive date, to act as though any date would have sufficed and that it's not about money when it so clearly is? Lets not pretend that some cheap fast food date, or grabbing a coffee is going to yield the same results as 5 star restaurants. She openly states to wanting to be support by a man on many occasions, despite being quite successful herself. Clearly money matters to her. Id have more respect for someone who just says "yes, expensive dates do matter, it's a measure of the kind of lifestyle a man can provide, and that's something women look for"
@@SmthIcanNvrHave I don’t think it’s that black and white though. I think while it’s every woman’s preference to have a $150 date at Ocean Prime over a $10 date at Starbucks, life happens and the *right woman* will understand that many young men are still figuring out their financial situation. I would love to have a fancy date with a guy but I’m also a college student, most of the guys i’ve been on a date with are college age or + a few years, we can’t afford $150 here and there. The initiative of the man to even just pay $10, the honesty in him saying he can’t afford the expensive date, the dedication to providing a nicer date someday when financially possible, these are all signs of a responsible, caring, honest, masculine man. If a woman does not accept this, then she is not the right woman, and you saved yourself $150 in the long run.
i’m a single mom, hearing all this makes me want to go find my son a father but it’s hard to date as a single mom! not to mention it’s hard to find a person with similar morals when it comes to raising a child.
Yeah it's very hard for a single mother to find someone, especially a young woman. But keep looking. I took on a single mother and raised her child as my own. We are out there, keep looking and don't give up hope.
You don’t need a man to raise your child with good morals. You’re doing great the way you are and don’t need to “find a man” quickly to help raise ur child! Don’t listen to these people
Lol, while having a father in the home is important, don't sacrifice quality. It does seem way harder now than ever to find a guy with that balance these days.
As a GenX individual, these conversations are very interesting. Many of my generation are seeing this decade through our children's eyes & the 1st generation that had tech/digital devices to enter the home and many of us were latchkey kids (free range kids). Each generation wants to fix the problems they thought they saw while growing up (hence the helicopter parenting). I am the generation who got married young (21), had kids young (25), but the 1st generation where both the husband & wife went to college. I define masculinity as having traits that appear as strength (muscular & less emotionally based), logic oriented, interested in tactile/visible things, desire to fix things, and more physical than communicative. Where as feminine traits are basically the Ying to the masculine Yang... nurturing, desire to make things, more emotion based, and more interested in personal relationships than things. I see these traits in my children and the children I teach as well.
Yes I agree, and could not have said it any better myself. Well done mate. Lol I like the "free range kids"term. I don't believe I've heard it before..latch key kids was the term for us that I'm familiar with. But "free range" is a perfect tho in describing what we were as kids. I don't know how old you are, but I'm 41, and we pretty much DID have free range to kinda do what we wanted. We rode our bikes to school..when we got home our parents were still at work, so we usually let ourselves in, and make ourselves a sandwich, maybe do a few quick things our parents wanted us to do when we got home, maybe or maybe do homework, then it was back on the bike and off to go meet up with friends for a bit. We had free run of the neighborhood, and as long as we were back home by dinner, or at least before dark, Mom and Dad didn't worry too much about it. We were probably the last generation to have that kind of freedom to be honest. I don't know when things began to change, but it does kinda seem like it was around the time technology really began to take off, and the internet and video games started become more and more prevalent. I don't know about you, but I wasn't allowed to hang around the house on the computer, or watching TV and playing video games all day. Mom would come in and turn the TV off and say, "Nope! You're not going to sit and watch TV all day. It's Saturday...go outside and find something to do." It just so strange to me how dependent and reliant that kids are on technology, and how they are perfectly fine with sitting inside all day. It's weird not to see kids on their bikes..or pass by one open field after another and not seeing a football or baseball game going on..or groups of kids hanging out and interacting with each other at the places that I hung out with my buddies as a kid, and my older brothers hung out at, and so on. It all changed when technology changed. Free range kids are extinct now, and it's kinda sad.
@Chrystiana W ik it makes sense to an extent, but for some reason hearing people say "Men are leaders, women are more passive" kinda gives me an icky feeling. I'm in the air force and have met a large amount of inspiring, mentally tough women. And to me I guess I don't think of them as "masculine," just "strong women." I personally have a hard time defining masculine and feminine, but mostly I use it to describe outter appearancds/demeanor. Like it's just a positive trait in general (gender neutral) to be strong (not saying guys and girls are equally strong, but just cuz a girl is "strong" doesn't make her "masculine" in my opinion), be able to lead people, support your family, etc. I feel like saying feminine = submissive and male = alpha is the reason we have had to push for women's voices to be heard in the first place, cuz people didn't take us seriously, cuz we shouldn't be the ones "leading or providing."
Just a small thought… I find it so sad and ironic that “trans women are women” is a valid statement to so many who also tell less-traditionally masculine men “you aren’t a real man.”
Interesting I mean it’s often we find hypocrisy in their argument.
I find the opposite actually.. The ones who tell feminine men "you aren't a real man" and call them a "little bitch" or "a pussy" are typically the same people who *DON'T* believe that trans women are women. I have yet to see the opposite if I'm being honest here.
@@azayzelderegis1655 it’s majorily feminists on the internet who want to “support” trans people and are anti-men or will spread this rhetoric that it’s okay for men to be feminine but deep down that’s now how they feel.
AKA The 'hypocrisy of the Narcissist'.
Narcissists (the 'Woke') don't have any Self-Awareness, and directly 'Project' their own mindset and behavior instead (ie Racism, Fascism, Sexism, etc).
It also enables the Narcissist to Deflect from Reality...as Narcs do.
You'll see ALL elements which make up the Narcissist Left, do this.
From BLM to Islam to the Female Narcissist to the Transgender Narcissist.
It's 'Narcissist Projection'...a form of gaslighting abuse.
Watch closely.
'Woke' Covert Narcissists tend to always describe themselves. 'Projection' is a primary trait of Narcissism.
they want us to have no gender… because that’s what the devil wants
Y'all bashing on the Christian guy with 5 points but he's not wrong. If the nonbinary guy is allowed to come with all his lingo the Christian guy can come with his. He's there to provide his point of view and it's a really solid point within Christianity. Yes, women can be leaders and can provide for their families and can show sacrificial love, but that is what the Bible specifically tells men they are supposed to do. Men are called to love their wives as Jesus loved the Church, which is he laid down his life and sacrificed everything for her.
Even if you remove the aspect of divine intervention, the Biblical perspective is still time-tested true for thousands of years of human history.
I agree with this totally...
So if someone isn't religious then they're not masculine?
The guy in the dress speaks nonsense too so don't prop your argument up on his shoulders.
I agree. You can just change “biblical” to “biological”. I am not even really Christian, but I believe the biblical principles for “gender” is exactly how we are biologically wired, MOST of the time. Of course their are outliers, but by in large it applies.
@@jonathandevereaux298 no? They were asked what it means to them. He's allowed to have his own view of what he views masculinity to be. People are allowed to have opinions and it doesn't mean they are automatically bashing or hating people who don't fit into that.
I think Amala took an extremely liberal point of view on the masculinity. Both hosts were extremely dismissive of Kacey’s point, yet him and Christian were the only ones who actually said anything with their answer on what is masculinity.
It was kind of annoying how she kept dismissing his point of view because they would not relate to a Christian point of view… what about a “non binary” point of view? How can anyone else relate to that? wasn’t the point of this to bring different view points together?
It’s not a “liberal take” to say that it’s not fair to attribute masculinity as only being associated with someone’s relationship with God simply because not everyone believes in him. It’s only fair to look at the biological and psychological aspects of it and how that translates into society. What they said were facts. 🤷
@@lolam4066 Thank you!!! Exactly!!!
@@lilmupp875 yeah but it’s about what HIS opinion is about what masculinity truly is. He’s going to add his faith into it that doesn’t mean that’s everyone definition of it but at least he gave a definition set in stone rather than not giving a definition at all.
Yes! Thank you.
Minus Griffin, this conversation was so much more productive than the feminist one
Griffin derailed everything. He had zero stake in the issue and therefore didn't belong there. It's good to know that perspective exists, though. He lets us know where things might be heading.
Griffin wants it all, to speak for men and women. He has no idea how to be a masculine man or a woman, why is he there?
@@aranisles8292 you guys are just bigots. Even Amala agreed he brought meaningful points
People.. ALL THESE MEN, are ALL too scared to be honest with what they really think.. other than Cowboy Man.
Fathers are the MOST IMPORTANT ROLES in a child’s life. The #1 role
The same sex parent will be the biggest influence on them and the other parent will be who their self worth or lack there of is attributed to. A father to a daughter is the one who shows her how she should be treated with how important she is to him. Also she watches how he treats her mom.
Tell that to every person who was raised with just a mother and turned out fine
All facts my guy
🙏🕊
@@Matthew-sl8dx Those are very few people.
Griffin is imo the only toxic person on that panel. Not for his masculinity (he very much had none) but for just being a very negative person who seemed to hate men. That is true toxicity.
Agree 100%
Better than Christian who was damaged growing up, that he needed a man that could provide protection. At least Griffin seemed like a physically and emotionally stronger person.
@@thomasrosendahl2783 Christian just has daddy issues. It's a fairly common phenomenon. But Griffin has very real mental issues that will take years of therapy to overcome. Because of these issues he is a very hateful and toxic individual. I hope he can get help
Christian (who projected his daddy issues and fetishises of a masculine man) was arrogant and loud IMO, he only defended the male stereotypes because that’s what his kink is. And the cowboy guy was pushing his religion too much
@@Matthew-sl8dx Arrogance or a god fearing attitude are perfectly fine as long a you aren't beig toxic and hateful. Griffin literally shoots down every person's opinion and spews factually incorrect hatred towards men when he himself can't even recognise that he is a man. That level of self hatred is beyond anything the other members of the panel had.
Honestly I think using the word "energy" is quite silly. Children don't need to be around "masculine and feminine energies" they need to have both male and female role models in their life.
I'm about 15 minutes in and I'm not sure I can finish this because the commentary, in my opinion, is horrible. Amala and her Co host fail to see that men are not women. So them stopping constantly to say "but women can" or "but women do" whenever someone uses the words principled, responsible and the like is not thought out well.
The reason is, again in my opinion, because the consequences are incredibly different. Because men are more geared towards violence and competition these words therefore have a completely different meaning to them and without a strong, let's say attachment, to these words for men you wind up with grapes, murders and many other awful things. Amala and her Co host do this discussion a disservice by brushing the thoughts off with a "but women can".
It’s funny how the guys where so much more chill than the girls where 😂
cuz of their masculinity 💀
Modern women in america are led to believe that they are "smarter" than man, which fuels their self confidence which leads to these type of embarasments whnever women discuss any topic, they SIMPLY CANNOT BE WRONG
@@fugana5073 well its not necessarily a matter of intelligence. its that women tend to process information from a more emotional lense and in turn end up arguing the same way, whereas men typically process and argue from a more analytical lense.
Simps, most of them
@@leah6997 in general, emotional arguments are not valid and thus not intelligent arguments. "I feel like" or is not a logical argument and the other group did a lot of that.
I think there have been historical mens spaces where we shared our frustrations, emotions, and perspectives both safely and among our peers. The barbershop, the happy hour spot, "man" Caves, the basketball court, boy scouts, etc. They werent perfect because there were still some social restrictions we sometimes carried into those spaces (e.g. don't cry like a **** but still tell your story) but if we did go full emotional from cry to expressed rage then it was something bad enough no one could deny. Men show emotion in limited spaces. This is where you heard terms like brotherhood. We may talk a good game of don't show emotions but let's be real...we did in these spaces if you really paid attention.
Overtime these spaces began to be demonized ,degraded, blurred by outside opinions and integrations, excessive morality, and made unsafe for men to process their maybe flawed impulses in a place where they won't be ousted and persecuted by the general public and scarlet letter because of trigger happy labelling of someone desperately wanting to fight a -ism ,-ogny, or -archy. A man or boy amongst his peers to find out if his current struggles or thoughts are trippin or extreme and rounded out safely and quietly and so that he can go back into the excessively judgemental world that often handles those same ideas or moments poorly. I will concede that it only takes a few flawed unsavy from those spaces to cause a destructive retaliation to these spaces (it only takes one negative).. like wreckless sabotage by scandel.
These spaces were not necessarily among women and therefore it allowed true free expression of those rough edges so that iron sharpens iron. They still exist but now they are Walmart brand quality of those spaces and decreasing.
Men hide their flawed emotions and struggle in even more limited spaces now that we have the "thought police" and don't know who will rush to persecute even among peers when they're just currently in that state and trying to figure it out. Someone won't just go hey..That's not it man.....instead they go full fire and brimstone and ostracize beyond rehab. Social justice doesn't rehab well either by its congregation. Same beast.
Yeah. I've been toying about with the idea that maybe men's clubs weren't such a bad thing. Maybe such things could be brought back and beneficial. I'm thinking a place when men can spend time without female interference. There could be a loud bar as a front where everyone can come, but with membership to men only, men could get in the back, have a silent space to relax or to work, maybe a small gym, maybe different spaces in which they could be engaging in different activities, maybe even access to certain services, like a psychiatrist/psychologist, classes for different things, I'm thinking singing and dancing (because singing is great for mental health and dancing helps with women), but also voluntary mentoring for young men for a lower subscription (for both the mentor and the mentoree), stuff like that. All of those things would help men be and become better men, and then when they'd go out in society, that'd be a net benefit for everyone.
I know progressives would fight that tooth and nail, but well… progressives are not very good at identifying what's good and what's bad for the long term. The two main problems with this is that I'm not sure how legal that would be nowadays, but also, it would be super expensive, both to put in place, and then to get it to run indefinitely (subscriptions would be for already rich people basically).
I think masculinity is an aura of strength, protection, knowledge, stability, hardness.. I think femininity is an aura of softness, nurturing, feeling, fluidity, emotion. Both men and women can have all these traights to varying degrees. But because it is more an aura than a tangible it is hard to define in words.
The problem isn't women having these expectations it's the fact that they expect them without giving anything in return
Traits of masculinity are the desire to father children, be a strong dependable protective husband, raise your children & be a father and family head with strong principles, adore your family, they are your whole world and you are their leader.
If that’s the definition then most men are not masculine😂caring about family and kids? What a joke
@@khamrhod8360 You are exactly correct: Most men are not masculine in our current society.
@@rydaddy2867
According to you maybe, but neither men nor women have to comform to what you believe
The most valuable purpose of a man on this planet is to build a family provide, protect, guide, and prepare them for the future. What is more important as a man?
@@donaldgrump3343 purpose is subjective
I noticed Amala and Talor really struggled with why someone wouldn't let go of what they believe and just make other arguments that others could agree with, but the thing is, when you find the truth and know what the truth is, you don't need to keep searching, and you are definitely not going to shy away from sharing truth with others because speaking the truth matters.
Share the truth even if someone chooses not to believe it. Share the truth still.
1:21:22 yes!! Just showing these 2 vice videos back to back, one can see that the women there got more emotional/laughing maniacally/getting personally offended/... While the men here have kept it pretty respectful and not personal (-not getting personally offended by what the others said).
I can't stress how important it is for men to be present in a young boys life. If you don't have a strong father figure you're going to look for one anywhere else you can find it. My dad suffered with depression throughout my entire childhood and he didn't have the proclivity to be present for me because he couldn't even be present for himself. He'd be home but asleep or "working" in his attic office that was a hoarding disaster. I left home daily to enjoy freedom from this looming depression he exerted into the home and found refuge with friends, but I've hardly felt masculine in my life. Often times I've just felt like I'm existing day to day without a purpose. I turn 31 this year and I've finally started to feel like a man for the first time in my life but I keep finding mental roadblocks that slap me in the face and make me take pause in my pursuit of finding myself
Very interesting take, I’d argue it depends on the person, for example Christian admits me has daddy issues and wants to find that masculine image in his partner. Whereas I had a simillar situation but instead found it was motivating to make success for myself and not be part of this self devaluing idea of “if you don’t have a dad you will do this and this”. I don’t need anyone to be a dad for me or give me those ideas and I have found those within myself and life’s experience- without having to find a father figure to learn from
@Matthew you make really unhelpful comments
Griffin shouldn't have been on that panel. He was very judgemental and constantly blamed "Men" when valid points were brought up. Such as asking for help or mental health struggles. Having 2 hetero parents is not a Western society thing either. Many countries and cultures before us have had a mother and father in "traditional roles." If he doesn't want to have a traditional relationship or family, so be it. He shouldn't be so condescending to those who do.
A man is a human male. Masculinity is having the traits of strength, stoicism and dependability on a level above the norm.
If you speak French (and even if you don’t) there is a song called “Un Homme” by Jérémy Frerot which is all about the struggle of being a man in today’s world and what it means to be a man.
This commentary was disappointing because the previous panel was to define "woman," not femininity. This panel is about masculinity not "man."
When the men gave definitions, you dismissed their opinions.
Amala: I talk a lot for a woman...
Girl, woman are known as talkers. It is a rare thing to find a talkative man
MAN
'a man' is a human being whose DNA suggests that they should produce male gametes.
'Being a man' is a notion based on an aggregated behaviour of men in a given environment.
So, being a man is a process in which:
1. a male performs better in activities in which their attributes(common in males) allow them to excel more compared to women, on average. The attributes can be:
- the general behaviour men show as a consequence of their genetic code.
- the general behaviour men show due to the training by their environment on what their role should be.
Therefore, masculinity is the average behaviour men show as result of their genetic code and learnings from their environment.
WOMAN
'a woman' is a human being whose DNA suggests that they should produce female gametes.
'Being a woman' is a notion based on an aggregated behaviour of women in a given environment
So, being a woman is a process in which: a female performs better in activities in which their attributes(common in females) allow them to excel more in compared to men, on average. The attributes can be :
- the general behaviour women show as a consequence of their genetic code.
- the general behaviour women show due to the training by their environment on what their role should be.
Examples:
- If, on average, men are physically stronger than women, and due to this they are asked and assigned to do physically demanding labour, then each of them is being a man.
- If, on average, women are more intellectual than men, and due to this they are asked and assigned to do intellectually demanding labour, then each of them is being a woman.
Clarifications:
- The idea of ‘being a wo/man’ was meant to have a positive connotation. For people to excel in their occupations using their natural and/or learned behaviours. But of course some people in society decided to take this and give it a negative connotation. So people who believe the phrase does more good than harm will stand for it, and people who believe the phrase does more harm than good will not stand for it.
- The assessment of ‘being a wo/man’ is based on average behaviour of sexes in a given culture. So, an individual’s behaviour is compared to an average behaviour seen from individuals of the opposite sex. The use of the label ‘being a wo/man’ is inappropriate to use if one compares an individual to an individual of the opposite sex.
Some implications:
- A male performing better on activities in which women, on average, do better compared to men as consequence of their attributes is said to be like a woman
- A female performing better on activities in which men, on average, do better compared to women as consequence of their attributes is said to be like a man
Some observations:
- Most popular achievements are attributed to men so labeled as ‘being a man’ is likely to bring a positive connotation compared to ‘being a woman’
- Women have struggled to achieve certain needs and wants that men had, so, being labeled ’being a woman’ is likely to bring a negative connotation than ‘being a man’
- A man who sees another man do an activity which women, on average, do more of compared to men, will likely label them as ‘being a woman’
- A woman who sees another woman do an activity which men, on average, do more of compared to women, will likely label them as ‘being a man’
I can understand all 5 power point topics he presents. He states it at the beginning.
Yes, Amala, we all have to be strong, but Men are meek - Strong like a big horse and Controlled enough to do small things like to open the door, change a tire, get the mouse, bury the Guinea Pig, and speak to his children as THE Authority figure that is with his wife and loves his family.
After 4 minutes in: for me masculinity is Aragorn from "The LOTR"
At the end of the comment on the video: still convinced that Aragorn incarnates masculinity.
Great video! :)
Just because a female can embody a said trait doesn't rule it out to not be masculine.
How is it that there is a man dressed like a woman who doesn't identify as a man, on a panel when the headline clearly said that they acquired people who identify as men? He has no business in this conversation.
If I'm to be completely honest, I found the vice debate itself and Amala's coverage to be lacking. Not worthless, as she makes a few notable observations, just not quite satisfying as a whole.
Despite this, I would not be opposed to seeing the second half of the video being covered. The extra time and, possibly, the perusal of some alternate perspectives, might make her coverage and discussions about the topics a bit more robust and thought-provoking.
In the question of dating, and the man’s red flag…….. you want the traditional man, but women doesn’t need to be traditional?
When I think of masculinity, I immediately think of the two most influential men in my life: my grandfather and my husband. They were and are reliable, dependable and the leaders of the home. While as a woman, my responsibility is care of our home and child. My husband is the provider, protector, and partner. We share the responsibilities of raising our child. He is unafraid to be funny, silly and attentive. My grandfather and my husband are(were) the leaders of the home. My husband does not expect me to be the warrior and fight all the battles, he takes the lead and I step in as needed. Both of these men are (were) the spiritual leaders of our home.
Masculinity: hard, rough, sharp.
Femininity: Soft, sleek, smooth.
Yin yang.
This is a simple answer.
They're all wrong.
You are talking bad of men. 80+ % of men have been historically very loyal.
I found the hosts statement about metoo questionable. I don't believe all women are subject to harassment as I don't believe all men are harrassers
Men can be nurturing in their roles as fathers. Mothers as mothers. Men are giving the capability to cry and should when grief overcomes them.
Thats my mom 💀 shes gen x and she just wants to be a normal person she just doesnt care and she doesnt get any of the new political topics she just wants a good person to run the country my mom is 40 and still slaying
This is my favorite video you have made so far. You are both able to discuss masculinity with such nuance and care that I haven't seen elsewhere.
Most guys I talk to meet girls who want the flashy first dates, an offer to coffee results in ghosting 90% of the time.
I don't think that all women want men to pay, walk on a certain side of the street, open the door, etc... But I think it would be fair to expect your partner to be there and share the work load with you. To have someone who's gonna take care of you and the family you create together THE SAME WAY you take care of them.
Oh that dude is definitely a 🤓 geek with the spider man quote LoL. Loved it though 😜
As a woman l, I find it VERY revealing that this panel seems to only contain people who were born male. Women need to cede our spaces and be quiet when men want to involve themselves in our business but don’t dare ask men to do the same. Idk maybe I’m wrong and a couple of them just “pass” really well but this is so insulting if that’s not the case.
I wish Amala would be more open mind and respectful when it comes to Christianity. The fact that someone does not share her values does not mean they are wrong, and laughing about it and not respecting their believes just show how immature she is in this topics. I truly loved her ideas and really thought she was wiser, but as more as I watch her videos the less I admire her.
Whos murdering all these women on their first date?
Police should maybe look into this if there are serial killers doing this??
Strawman statements about straw men for straw men
Men do not scream, cry, or complain. Women do.
I think people get lost with the phrase “toxic masculinity” because they think it’s describing that something about masculinity is toxic. No, the key word is “toxic”. You can be a toxic woman, a toxic teammate, a toxic friend or partner…. The list goes on. The dude in the pink shirt was closest to the truth I think. When you indulge in classic masculinity to the point of Andrew Tateing it up, that’s toxic. Why is his masculinity toxic? Like the Christian man said, he’s not about being humble or providing for his partners or having honor or being spiritual. He’s toxic because he bends real masculinity and a role of leadership to mean everybody serves him, he has no boundaries and can sleep with whoever and do whatever while his girlfriends are all corralled. Financially speaking there’s no team. If you’re associated with him then your money is his money and it never goes the other way around. Again, I actually know a woman pretty well who is an Angie Tate and who I would describe as toxically feminine. Never worked a day in her life, controls the money her partner makes, manipulates him and doesn’t let him buy anything he wants with his own earnings, cruel to him and hyper controlling. She can talk to whoever but he can’t even mentor a female in a very appropriate way just a tiny bit when he’s an excellent resource for her.
Again, I think we really need to focus on what’s toxic. Men and masculinity are not innately toxic. Nothing is unless you’re talking about abuse, exploitation, or manipulation.
Two better questions would be, “What aspects of traditional masculinity are toxic?”, and “What aspects of masculinity are positive and valuable?”.
Can't be masculine without defined gender roles. The roles dictate what masculine is and what femininity. The base is... what is a man and what is a woman.
Masculinity is a feeling, if you were stuck alone in a room with that person would you be scared of them or eat them?
those are the only two options for you😂?
i think its great that the man in the cowboy hat is constantly going to his faith. that is what a Follower of Christ is called to do. we can not and should not separate our privet life and our public life. our whole life and being comes under the reign of Christ. truth is to be spoken fearlessly especially in a group like this.
I disagree you don't need to follow god,Allah, vishnue, zues,thor or any other deity to be a man
Social observation for the xx'ers: If the "cowboy" was 5'2 and 240lbs, I suspect the voices of support would curiously echo in silence.
First, male, female, men, women are all terms that have been used to distinguish a child when born. Those that were born with male or female sex organs were either termed a boy or girl or male or female. Once they reach adulthood they are either termed a man or woman (referring to either an adult human male or adult human female. We use words to describe something in life. Every time someone invents something, they must define it because it doesn’t fit the definition of things that came before that were similar. You wouldn’t try to force someone to start calling a book something else because you have created something that doesn’t fit the previous definition. Books were termed for one thing where magazines or pamphlets were defined differently. I believe all people have their own free will to live or identify how they feel, but so do those who don’t believe or feel the same things as you. Where some transgenders want to be a different gender than what they were born as, so they “identify” as such, its just that, they identify as something, but unfortunately, they are not. If they were, why would they “identify” as it? You don’t have to identify as something that you are, only as something you are not, it should go without saying.
I believe masculinity and femininity originate with our hunter- gatherer ancestors. Men had their strength and protectiveness, a provider for the family, to be courageous, especially when facing something seemingly beyond their capabilities, to not be daunted by what “can’t” be done. Women had their compromising nature, the caregivers of all things….. to their emotionally struggling men and their kids, the ones who kept things right and in order, as well as being an unconditionally loving mother. These “gender roles” are not gender exclusive. Men can cook or clean or care for the kids or women can be the providers and do the tinkering around the house fixing things that need be. However, the stability of the household, of a good family with great structure depends on the fulfillment of these roles. Nature is objective whereas nurture is subjective. Studies have been conducted where boys wear blue and girls pink or boys play with trucks and army men and wear pants and women play with dolls and dress up or wear dresses are mostly due to what is put in their hands and on their bodies. Boys wouldn’t know it isn’t proper or normal for them to be wearing a dress if they grew up wearing them or they hadn’t been around only girls wearing dresses, the same as women wouldn’t think anything of wearing pants (in todays times, anyway) if their parents only dressed them in such.
There was a study that showed when given the option of working with other members of the same sex to get something done or figure out or to do it alone and both have the same results whether you work together or alone, the majority of men chose to do things themselves wheras the majority of women chose to work together. Men are more competitive while women are more cooperative; men strive to be the best or do more than others, whereas women tend to just get it done regardless of how.)
And as far as toxic masculinity goes, I don’t believe there is a such thing. Masculinity is not toxic. Therefore, it is the action or belief that you posess of masculinity that is toxic. Like saying “bad love” Love is never bad, if the emotions between people are bad, then they are not from love, love is good and patient and kind and altruistic, not self serving…..So ultimately, if some idea or belief you posess of masculinity is toxic, then it is, in my opinion, a fallacy. A false construct that some experience or some person has instilled in you.
Christian was the only one spitting facts tbh
No sadly he used so called god to try and throw facts out
That's the only the beginning of what it means. Actions are important.
I know right. Amala and her partner went on a tirade about how true masculine men are suppose to be self sacrificing. That was what the Christian guy said IN THE BEGINNING and they dismissed him! Tf??
@@elijahsesi4755 they don't grasp the concept.
Especially the one dressed like a girl.
There is one simple definition of masculinity. That’s that masculinity is being more interested in things. Femininity is being more interested in people.
Ok, but Taylor impersonating Jordan Peterson was amazing
Wow! You guys COMPLETELY missed the boat on this one!!! SO DISAPPOINTING!!!
"The problem with talking about your personal beliefs on what it means to be a man is that you stake your argument on those beliefs" ... well yeah
A man does not need a gun, but of he does, he can shoot it properly for a just cause.
Amala when a modern woman goes on a first date to think she's looking for a lifetime mate right then seems naive to me. We have experienced over 60 years of feminism which has severely eroded confidence in men and seriously elevated entitlement in women.
Masculine is traditionally a protector of women and children (will fight if they have to), a provider, a leader, stoic in nature, that makes decisions based on logic where emotions are secondary.
Feminine traditionally is soft, intuitive, nurturing, empathic, light-hearted, helpful, generous, kind, compassionate, and fiercly protective of their children and elders.
I may have missed or not articulated perfectly, but these are the main differences.
Women do tend to live their lives heavily in emotion, whereas men are deep logical thinkers. My argument is that emotion and intuition are another form of logic. We *feel* what is right. Masculines *analyze* what is right based on comparable facts. I think both can be correct; the only difference is how we arrived at our decisions.
@@dmargot2828 Lol. Women always define things in a way that benefit them : Men are tools that need to be stoic and self sacrifice for women. Women get to let their emotion run wild, without logic and fact but while men need to deeply thing and educate themselves but should not be thought as more correct than women. Nice.
Difference between a woman and a man... as controversial as it may be... women are physically weaker than men.. IT isn't that women can't do the same tasks men can or vise versa... it gets down to physicality... a weaker man that modifies his body to look like feminine can still beat a female from birth... it still boils down to...? For me as a female.... "So you couldn't make it as an actual P.P. male and just defaulted to technically beating females...? in Womens' league...? You have to pick the a field you will dominate regardless to feel something..?" that isn't feminine or masculine... it's cowardice..... Neither woman OR man....
Someone please ask me what P.p. means......
Example "Transgender MMA Fighter Fallon Fox" caused head injury to natural female....
This is the stupidest reason as ever.... men can pee standing up. The amount of readiness for predators exponentially widens the gap between the differences between men and women.
This is a stupid question. Masculinity is based on how you are raised and your environment. A man is a leader/head of his family. He is on his purpose to provide for himself and his family. A man establishes the structure of his home to provide a safe environment for himself and his family. A man bases his decision and navigates through conflict on logic and suppressing emotional outbursts. This comes back to establishing the structure of the home and safe environment.
Reason why worried is many times guys are used for foodie dates, yet some guys hardly put effort in and get the Netflix and chill.
For me personally a date should be about pursuing something serious, I don’t see the whole point of going through a date and dinner just to have sex and then leave. I feel like that’s the problem
more testosterone = less aggressivity, btw.
Men and women can do many of the same things and others are unique to each gender. The things that they can do the same in general are done ,expressed differently , and to different degrees along with why.
None of them want to be cancelled or loss their jobs
Not me thinking „one fifty“ means one dollar fifty cents 🤦♀️
I actually disagree with you here, You say we know masculinity is a naturally thing and is inherint in guys more than girls, Yet you keep coming back to Well Women can do that to so then.. WHAT IS MASCULINITY.. With that thinking you are pretty much saying well ok men is just his genitalia without saying it, NO! The point is although both can have pieces of each other, The one that naturally exudes these traits more than the other should not be overcome by or take on the more feminine role and vise versa, call it a box or a social construct but they aren't , they are natural biological roles that your own gender puts you in, even if there are outliers, there will always be outliers but that does not mean that society will function correctly or be more orderly if both genders don't share in there own ..yeah roles, When we say our wife or our man is our other half.. YES! Because they exude the traits on an entirely different level than the typical male, The man takes up the mantel and strength and protective role, Women can do this but to what degree is most efficient, If the women took this role from her husband, who is more likely to be efficiant in strength , protection, taking control in the scenerios that he needs to so that his family can thrive, In other words just because women can step out , that does not mean they should do it over the man and the man shouldn't do that over the women, The point is , they can.. but should they, and how would that work out better for the biological role that isn't normally filled there, Majority don't have the sterness to negotiate, run into conflict for good reasons, protect the home from an instruder, handle the problems with courage , the point is, your removing gender roles not constructed by society and a lot of conservatives would disagree with you on that, The missing peice to this puzzle is there are GENDER ROLES naturally
and just because some people can step out of their roles which that part IS socially constructed, that does not mean they should or it is HEALTHY!
You contradict yourself in previous episodes as well, as like i said, the male role in the home, WHAT HAPPENS when signle mother parents are all they have, THEY LOSE a huge part of themselves growing up as men, they need their dad to navigate this world as a good man, and they end up with all the stats you listed before, More likely to commit crimes, etc. Why is that>\
ROLES!
Also the christian guy shouldn't be ignored because he is not just using his faith, Keep in mind this was the idea of masculinity In a book THOUSANDS of years old, The majority of the teachings on being masculine and even warnings that a man SHOULD NOT step into the femine role were in the old testiment, Means that way back then this is what they observed masculinity at its rawist and without the politics, just being in their society, and no not just one place, these books were spanning differnet parts of the world, so yeah you can use the bible, it is a historical book, you can use it as a historical book! It's what the people believed back then, so why did they believe it, It wasn't just God, it was what they observed so if you DON'T believe in the bible you could say they created God in this image of what they thought masculinity was based on observation!
Stop excluding religious texts just because you haven't manage to understand it AS a historical book that mentions real people , their real attitudes PLACES you can observe in history, It was keeping a record like any other historical book , you could throw out the supernatural and it would still be left with genuine history.
Soooooooooo glad that my son is extremely masculine! Protects women! My SIL the exact same way!
I think protecting women and just vulnerable people in general, shouldn’t necessarily be a masculine trait. I think it’s more of a human trait right? Like how a woman would take care of another vulnerable woman if she was in trouble. I would protect a vulnerable woman wherever I could, but if I see a guy who’s idk getting attacked, I’d want to step in and help to. I wouldn’t say those necessarily make me more of a man, but just a good person
The equivalent to a woman getting murdered on the first date is not the equivalent of a man getting tricked. A nice equivalent is a woman asking to get picked up from her place and her real boyfriend is there to rob you or worse. I swear they pick the dumbest people to do panels. Next time get genuine male role models to have this discussion.
The difference between masculinity and feminity isn't what you do it's how you do it. Men are seen as stronger, rougher, while women are more nurturing and kind.
One thing I've heard that I agree with is men are driven b avwant to do nothing. Ie: get everything done so you don't have to go anything
Women are driven by a want to do something. Ie: drama, making something out of nothing. Women can be masculine, men can be feminine
20% is 1.5x as many as 13%. That is not an insignificant difference mathematically.
What does God say a man is?
A provider.
A protector.
The head of the woman and marriage.
A woman is made from man by God..
To be protected and provided for.. and taken care of with her being his helper..
Believe it not..
You’ll figure it out one day after your death and that’s all that will define man and woman.
I’m an atheist but I think that the Cowboy had very good points and his opinion was dismissed very easily.
1:18 "Women might not date you (if you've been sexualy assaulted)"= same for women: men might not date you if you've been assaulted. Actually, I would argue that this is the main reason why women are very "more vulnerable". Men might see you as disgusting if some people don't believe you (that you are a victim) and think you are just promiscuous. Promiscuity matters more to men than to women. Think of the importance of virginity to most religions, the way a divorced woman has no value in some cultures, etc. So to a woman, it can be equally (if not more) shameful to admit she was sexually assaulted.
So this is bit old fashioned but holds true till date . I hope you guys start to understand this as soon as you can.
A man - is someone who is married to a woman ( someone who is mature enough to take the responsibility of having a wife , and family) this is why if you were a king you would need to get a wife before you get the throne or right after.
Marrige is the sign of manhood.
In most eastern countries if you’re not married you’re still just a boy.
Marrige is the door to manhood
A woman - is someone who has a child. (A child comes with a lot of motherly instinct and a ferocity to protect your child)
Until you have a child you’re still just a girl.
That’s eastern definition and no matter how much time goes it remains the same .
I’m not taking arguments about oh what about gay marrige and shit !
That’s not a marrige it’s just an adoption form .
masculinity: The strength or force of conviction, behind ones intention.
I certainly agree that as a man or a woman, you are free to live your life however you see fit, that being said, a masculine man is a certain type of man and that doesn't change. Thats not to say you have to be a masculine man or a feminine woman. Though I think deep down man are looking for feminine women and women are looking for masculine men, so if you decide to live your life like a feminine man, don't be surprised if you struggle to have a relationship with women.
Generally when it comes to romantic relationships men need to feel respected and appreciated. Women need to feel cared for and secure (both need to feel loved). Masculine and feminine are manifestations of those respective desires. This is why it's considered masculine for men to pay the bill at dinner and feminine for women to expect that. Even if the woman has a decent job and is capable of paying half. This dynamic is an innate characteristic for both sexes and is as old as human existence. There are exceptions to every rule but no amount of social engineering will overide the fact that this is how the majority of men and women are.
Ouch! Poor cowboy, you guys ripped his what is a man answer right off the bat! It's not his fault he knows exactly what HE thinks a man is. It's not his fault he is on a different level than these other guys. It's just his answer. I mean, at least he gave one!
His answer, aptly, was extremely manly! The expectation nowadays is that you're in crisis, struggling to find yourself, overcoming trauma and toxicity and finding a new way of being beyond the evil 'patriarchy'. That is what gets applause. Men are basically supposed to hate themselves as they are and work on being 'better'. He totally flew in the face to today's orthodoxy.
Exactly! The thing about this question of what is masculinity is that it’s changed so much. Before w what gender roles which made a distinction between women and men. Back then masculinity was being the one out getting money and providing for your family. You were the protector and the one who was strong while women were the opposite so it was easier to define what is masculine and what is feminine. Of course there are exceptions to this, there are women who have to take on more masculine traits because of their environment. This isn’t a perfect world so those idea of masculinity will shift and change if you don’t have something grounding it like faith. These things are very dependent on how you grow up and your environment. Although men are the ones who are supposed to provide (in my opinion as a Christian) and women are the ones who are able to sit back and let their husband lead because he loves her and she trusts him. It doesn’t mean in other situations the woman will be the one who has to provide for her family because the man didn’t do his job and instead left her to do that on her own. When you aren’t grounded in something masculinity and femininity can be whatever you want.
@@aranisles8292 yes.. also white guilt. All this toxic masculinity debate seems to keep white men at the centre because they hate themselves and others too because society and politics influences people to believe they are racist as well. Crazy times.
Like fr! He has structure and system of beliefs, that’s awesome to me.
Cowboy is100% on point 💪🏾💋
Cowboy is not losing me! He IS defining what masculinity means to him...he is upholding a vision and morality that many people understand and agree with. His voice is relevant even if nobody in the room can relate to it.
Absolutely!!!!
Sounds like he's preaching to me. He talks about following god more than anything else, but ok
@@AdidTurreno because to him God shows him what a man should do to fulfill the role of ‘man’ or husband/father. You don’t have to agree, but a large portion of the U.S population are religious
@Andrei Tudor To people who center their lives on following God ( not only christians) this is their moral foundation...their lived experience as it were, so why is it such a barrier to people to listen to? Seems to me that his viewpoint may be just as illuminating to people listening as any of the others shared in this discussion.
@@caliconservative20 Sure, but only for people who already believe in god. If he talked about the themes and values and morals he wants people to follow without saying "god said it so it must be so" more people might be able to resonate with him who aren't christian.
If you’re non binary why are you on a panel of men talking about masculinity
Right?! They should’ve brought buck angel
Because a debate means we need different opinions from people who will challenge the other side's beliefs, so I think they did a good job with the discussion
That person was the worst person on that panel. Always blamed men when valid points were brought up, yet, offered no solutions.
@@anyadarlingg He really didn't have any beliefs. He was just a contrarian for the sake of being combative. Even the other gay gentleman had to put him in his place which was awesome.
Man, my first thought. Their main goal seemed to be to intrude on the space and be combative and non-productive. Everyone else seemed to have an approach of good faith and to develop a point.
A failure of understanding the basics here: Just because a trait is attributed to females, doesn't exclude it from being a masculine trait. Both men and women nurture for example, but they do it in different ways that provide balance to a child. - You need to avoid falling into the trap of binary or exclusionary thinking.
That's exactly what I was thinking at rhe beginning. My wife is one of the strongest people I know, which I would consider a masculine trait, but that doesn't make her manly. I'm caring, compassionate, and affectionate to my wife and my two daughters, but that doesn't make me womanly. Her shortsighted view that if something is masculine that a woman can't possess that that trait is absurd
Exactly!
Thank you!
Thank God for this comment I see this all the time with young people and why I do not like listening. The sort of people who believe themselves to be intelligent but still think things are black and white that aren’t is overwhelming.
I always think as Socrates said “the more that I learn the more I realize that I know nothing”
I think Amala os more so doing that out of necessity. Like no one is defining so let’s just define it first before we move on and dissect it? Find what is just for men and men only and what for women and women only (that can always not be adhered to but th here IS consequences to actions and you must deal with the fall out.
I want to have a beer with cowboy hat and talk about masculinity, cause I trust him.
I had a guy argue with me that his body con dress and makeup was masculine. I was like, wear what you want, but do not try to convince me that you’re masculine
You can be a masculine man who wears feminine things but being masculine doesn’t make the clothes masculine too.
The action of wearing whatever you want and holding your ground even when people give you shit for it is pretty masculine, but the clothes themselves are definitely not masculine.
@@SonOfABitch777 so if women wear what they want and don't care what others think they're being masculine? You are speaking nonsense.
@@jonathandevereaux298 If they're wearing masculine clothes, then yes. We usually call them tomboys though.
@@notmyrealname8282 It's basically just a figure hugging tight dress, that's meant to accentuate your curves. I don't know what curves a man hopes to accentuate by wearing one, but still......
Literally commented on there how respectfully civil the host and guests were compared to the recent feminism video Vice had. One person told me I was upholding the patriarchy as men are taught to hide their emotions and they become scared when confronted with people being emotional. Like no, the main problem most people had with that video was just a bunch of rude jerks laughing & yelling over one another as they tried to talk.
Emotional men tend to be violent men… this is why we learn to control our emotions. It’s that simple. I don’t know why people want to glorify drama. Sober minded logical and civil. That is how men ideally communicate regardless of feelings.
also the moderator is doing a wonderful job here in giving chances to everyone to speak their mind and enganging more with the panel. I feel like the moderator in the feminism panel didn't do enough "moderating"
@@kevinlucas9905 emotional anything tend to be violent. it just hurts more when it's a man.
edit: and leaves more traces
Did you see the feminist panel before the last one you're referring to? Those women were respectful and had good conversations. The panel you speak of was just a mess. Very diabolical personalities
@@nofearonlylove21 I was talking about the more recent femnist panel from two weeks ago being a bit of a trainwreck, the one from 3 years ago though yes was a lot better.
Edit: I’m just comparing this discussion to the more recent Femnist discussion because there closer in time frame with one happening directly after the other.
I’m confused as to why they were mad about the definitions given for masculinity by saying “women can do that too”
Yes women can do them, but that would still be masculine. She even admits that she has masculine traits, but still didn’t recognize that they were the definitions given by the panel? Peculiar…
There were a few times I was confused about that. Seemed to me like people were mixing up “masculinity” (personality), “being male” (biology), and “male gender roles” (social/action).
That doesn’t make sense though? How is a woman having a job for example and providing for herself in anyway like a man?
@@Matthew-sl8dx it's like saying a man changing diapers makes him a woman.
exactly. Masculinity and femininity don't describe what's exclusive to one sex but more what's more typical in men and women respectively.
My thoughts exactly. There is no such thing as a definition of masculinity that cannot be attributed to some women as well. It's frustrating to watch her look for the impossible.
God I miss the good old days of the 80s and 90s when men were men and women were women and the definition of what is a woman (an adult human female)and what is a man (an adult human male) was crystal clear. I hate to say it but I think that the feminist movement has actually emasculated men with everyone throwing out toxic masculinity so badly that men don't even know what a man should be anymore. I get so tired of seeing men wearing make up, jewelry and women's clothes with facial or body hair. I have respect for transgender men/women that suffer from gender dysphoria but the non binary group are just delusional or mentally ill. Human's aren't non binary and gender has never been and never will be a social construct John Money's own John/Joan case that he hoped would back his gender theory proved the opposite that it doesn't matter how you raise a child nature always wins. Sorry I am out I should have known the non binary man would go there.
Grew up in the 90s... Gender confusion was barely a thing. I don't understand this..
I saw a tiktok that stores are running out of tampons, because there are so many pussies now
My mom and stepdad moved to California and my stepdad use to present as a very generic male. Now he dresses like a woman. Wears makeup, women’s jewelry, and all that. My mom says it’s just the culture out in California but it’s very hard to accept here in Florida. I’m sorry but Gender is biological. Male, man, boy are humans with male reproductive organs (testicles, sperm, p***s) necessary to fertilizing the egg of a female. Female, woman, girl are humans with reproductive organs that are capable at bearing children (uterus, ovaries, eggs). And just because some people aren’t capable of these roles doesn’t mean that they are some other gender. No they have those parts they just don’t function to the standard. People use infertility or sterile as means to tear down this structure. But infertile women still have the organs associated with biological females.
I too miss the good old days where everyone agreed that facts were concrete without question rather than now where there are delusional people that say that a fact is fluid and subjective according to how they feel.
I find it exhausting and a tad insane that someone (Matt Walsh) had to make a whole movie about what a woman is.
At least the guy with his 5 points had the balls to try and define masculinity.
He is 100% on point💪🏾💋
his definition is on the same level as the woke left. doesn't actually mean anything
The irony is the only one on the panel who exhibited behaviours that I’d describe as “toxic” was literally the one that doesn’t even identify as a man or masculine. Griffin was rude, condescending, arrogant and dismissive and was the only one to actually attack any other person on the panel rather than dealing with the ideas being put forward. The most feminine dude was the most toxic.. I think there’s something to that.
There is a thing where the more testosterone the guy has, the more calm the guy is. While a lack of it creates more aggression to compensate.
I’d argue the gay guy in the black shirt was the most toxic by far, he was snarky, loud and rude. The non binary person seemed pretty chill
He exemplifies stereotypes of womanhood like a costume. No woman I know acts like this. I've never known catty women like the other vice video either. It's so weird
That’s because Griffins ideology preaches “we are right about everything, it’s impossible for us to be wrong because we know everything about everything”. Griffin is insecure and weak, so not surprising he cut everyone else down
Chaos and order? Maybe Peterson is on to the feminine and masculine? We all still need chaos to progress and push but it CAN be chaotic…
Honestly, that was what I kept going back to….who pays $150 first date?!? And if you can’t afford it, why are you doing it?!?!
Simpus Maximus must've been expecting her to move in the same night and start paying bills or something. Either that or he just can't plan more than 12 hours ahead.
My thoughts were he can afford it, but it almost feels like the effort is pointless since he keeps getting rejected. Also I have heard many women (not friends of mine) say they will go out on dates with guys to get free meals, drinks, have a good time, etc. Even if they may not be romantically interested in the guy. Personally I think he needs to pick cheaper dates ideas, and maybe stop using dating apps if he is doing so, cuz a lot of women just go on there to pass free time and gain validation, and not take it very seriously 🤷 it's sad
@@anyadarlingg whether consciously or not, many men think they need to purchase a woman. Society encourages the idea that women are objects, emotionally unstable ones, that need to be placated. This can be seen with expressions like "happy wife, happy life" as if the man must constantly bend the knee. Guy just needs more self respect and to date someone his equal so he won't feel the need to castrate himself.
He's either going to a bar or a very fancy restaurant. Either way if he has regret afterwards, he either can't afford these places or has silly expectations. I suspect if they slept with him he wouldn't have regret, which is probably his first mistake. If he is looking for a actual partner he should start that relationship off on an honest note. The type of girl that won't look at his badly for not spending 150 bucks on her is the likely the type he may have success with.
It would weird me out if a man spent a $150 on a first date or even a 3rd date unless he had the right attitude to go with it. The fact that this guy over spent and he’s complaining about something he chose to do because it didn’t achieve his desired results shows he’s most likely one of those men that hover and too eager to please. A think the term is beta male.
I have been with my husband 7 years. I have seen him cry 3 times. He's seen me cry probably 3 times a week average. I honestly NEED his emotional stability to live properly. When he's too rigid, my intuition and feelings come in handy to him. He sat down 2 nights ago and told me how time has shown him that my intuition has been right. I told him how his reasoning has helped me analyze certain situations. We are built to compliment each other in so many ways. We are 2 pieces of a puzzle.
Wow!!! That's why marriage is so important. You complement one another and you both strengthen one another in areas where one may need support and you both communicate with one another. This is beautiful. ❤
Honestly this is so beautiful
I love how the cowboy articulated himself in the opening. Griffin calls himself non-binary which doesn't even exist, but the cowboy shares his beliefs and you guys talk down about him for it? Why? Everything he said was spot on. Recognizing yourself as a creation made by a Creator is a good first step to defining any part of the human experience, especially masculinity. Do you really think the man in the pretty dress has a more grounded sense of self than the man who is Godly?
Do better.
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I was surprised that they compared him to a child during show and tell. This gentleman was giving his prepared thoughts on what he felt defined masculinity. Again, thanks for your perspective on that moment. :)
I’m sure he knows about grandma’s wooden spoon. Besides a symbol of authority it doubles as a few other things. But, basically to train your mind. Almost like the Pavlov’s dog experiment. You see her with that spoon you either expect food or to be reprimanded🤣
Not everyone is Christian, and many non believers have a sense of self. It’s not a pissing contest of who’s a better human being. So I don’t agree that someone who’s self proclaimed “godly” is always a good person solely for being a Christian.
@@joshuacavazos8869 I didn't say anything about anyone being a good person or better human. Non-believers may have a sense of self, but as Christians, we know that they cannot truly know who they are until they acknowledge who created them. That's our belief. And, regardless of religious beliefs, a man who thinks he doesn't have a human gender at all clearly does not know who he is.
I think this is the first time I've found myself pushing back against Amalas' opinions a bit. Also, it is a bit hypocritical to be like, "Don't pay for $150 date (which I agree), but then bring up your bf taking you on a memorable, expensive first date, lol. Also, since when are women ok with paying half for a date? Lol not where I am
I too found myself correcting her ignorance on the differences of men and women, this was obviously a place where she still retains some of her prior woke feminist beliefs. Also too, her male counterpart showed some emasculate thoughts and behavior, a product of modern society as it weakens men and destroys family units.
This was also my first time disagreeing with some of her points, especially at the beginning. There are still many things we all agree on, so I’m trying to hold on to that.
The half bill thing is more common in college type situations where it's understood not everyone has the money to pay for two people's meals potentially over and over if the date doesn't pan out. My husband paid for our movie tickets on our first date and I paid for dessert after.
I guess it's also worth noting that I grew up with financial stress so a $150 first date would've freaked me out and made me think: "This idiot doesn't know how to manage money if he's just throwing it away on a first date!" but this combined with a more common concern that I think other women have which is: "I can't let someone spend this much money on me as it creates an obligation and now I don't know if I like him or if I just feel guilty for not just ordering a salad cause I'm *hungry*".
If you’re asking her out the ball is in your court. That basically means be the/a man and take charge. You want her. Not the other way around. If she doesn’t like it then obviously you gotta move on. But, clearly as the guy you’re attempting to impress her😂
@The 2nd Coming And if she is asking you out, then she pays? Lol pretty sure it doesn't work that way for the most part.
I guarantee you when women say they want a man that's emotionally available, they mean a man that's a great listener. Us men like to think through our problems and figure out a solution, often solo. Women like to air out their problems by telling someone about it. Usually their boyfriend or husband.
Summed up, as guys, listen to your girlfriend/wife. Be attentive, but DO NOT offer a solution unless she explicitly asks for help in that regard. This is just one of the major differences between men and women.
Amala, I think you are overlooking the unrealistic standards that men have to meet in modern dating. Which is shocking because you are fully aware of how much woke culture and feminism has taken over modern day women… so who do you think are on these dating apps? As a woman who is bisexual, it is a hell of a lot harder to try to date a woman than it is to date a man. They literally require so much for no reason/nothing in return. It’s hard to even have a conversation with a woman now a days. Do you know how many women’s bios name “food” as an interest or activity… like thanks for letting me know you’re human I guess? The things that modern women in the dating pool are asking for are NOT basic things. They’re not asking for men to walk on the outside of the curb for them lolll they literally don’t even care about that anymore. How modest of you.
A masculine man has strength. He is strong in his mind, body and soul. He does not complain, whinge and bitch about every little thing.
I think you got it.
Now what's a feminine woman?
Facts. @Will4300
@@lucienberl Delicate, thoughtful, dependent, reserved, caring, cautious, loving, and subservient are some words that come to my mind.
Why should a woman be subservient or cautious?
@@AnonymousC-lm6tc I don’t think they “should”, but generally, women tend to have those tendencies.
My boyfriend grew up a sensitive momma's boy who was called a sissy by his dad constantly. He was told he wasn't a real man because he didn't play sports or do anything "manly." He's not feminine by any means, he's just more in touch with his emotions but is man enough for me. Full beard, tech nerd, plays DnD, and loves action movies. He's more masculine than that "they" on the panel by a long shot.
Your husband sounds fun! I think he’d get along with my husband:)
why tf are u attacking a non binary person that doesn't even know you? weirdo
Your boyfriend sounds like a real catch! ❤ I often wonder if the reason why there's been such an increase in gender non conforming people is because they've heard so many messages stating that a male who acts too feminine is not a "real man", and a female who acts too masculine is not a " desirable woman". And now people are scratching their heads wondering why so many people have given into that criticism and are labeling themselves as non binary or trans. Just a theory. I could be totally wrong!
If that's the kind of man you want, that's cool. Seriously, but if he gets picked on while in a sphere of dudes that are highly testosterone filled he won't take it well. Same goes the other way, the extremes are just that way. This episode of Jubilee was not fair at all to me. Combined you may have the average guy but none of them showed what an average man would be and left out other nuances
You don’t need to put down Griffin to uplift your man
Masculinity is just traits associated with the plurality of men. These would be positive attitudes towards sex, emotional stability (not meaning less emotions, but less variance in emotional state), and disagreeableness. I would also personally want to add an increased respect for meritocracy and hierarchy. Men in general respect men who have proven themselves even if they are generally disagreeable.
This is by far the best comment to describe the difference. One comment was like "masculine is logical, and feminine is emotional." Hahaha. Like have they never met a man? Maybe they were one idk.
Yeah. I felt this discussion addressed some good things but didn't address the 'fundamental points' of masculinity beyond the gender stereotypes which we love so much. Having a discussion about how accessible being a woman is would have been helpful or how you can build masculinity based on an idea of hierarchy and accomplishments with a discussion on how this isn't exclusive of 'women' but can explain why the classes exist in the first placeseparations
@@DelphineTheWorstBladeEver Right. A way better statement is 'Men respect hierarchy and there is a relative way for ascertaining when one man is more accomplished than another as reference through dating.' Hell, I recall when the asian guy started talking about being in the hole financially how Hasan referenced 'you need to do better. you need to be more attractive.' I feel that atleast references to the fundamental aspects of what makes masculinity.
I agree with your comment and how these traits are found conventionally in men really comes down to the biological differences between sexes. Due to differences in hormones; testosterone behavioural characteristics include increased aggression, dominance, impulsiveness, increased libido, social anxiety and neuroticism. This doesn’t include the physical differences testosterone provides such as increased muscle mass, bone mass, and fat distribution. Through hundreds of thousands of years we have evolved and used these biological traits as an advantage to our society and success (debatable), but mainly survival as a race.
When you speak of respecting other men, it comes from the biological need to be dominant and being able to appreciate competition. It was the way we survived for 250,000 years.
Men and women can have respect for their peers. So it doesn’t really speak to the core idea of masculinity in itself. It’s a byproduct of masculinity which is biological, can be measured and is not subjective.
@@rylan182 i mean, we disagree but you may be over essenntializing men a tad. There are plenty of societies in which what you described stands true but people doing the things dont have penises. What you described creates a natural distribution. What we have in the West as we understand it arose because of its cirumstances in relation to the aspects.
As always when you get a bunch of guys to come together to talk about masculinity the conversation is civil, humorous, and wholesome. Why did the women fail to have a conversation like this?
Since they bought into feminism as a good idea, which is the biggest lie ever sold to them.
Women aren't held accountable in the ways that men are
@@whokilledjr3719 The Halo Effect.
Women are more emotional than men. Men are more analytical.
Because when males have conflict and the argument goes too far, violence is on the table, whereas females typically use social and reputational aggression. Females typically dont engage in physical violence, so they use language and social manipulation.
As a Christian, I 100% agree with everything the Christian guy said, and I find it really absurd that you guys just dismiss every word out of his mouth by saying he should stop talking about religion because other people won't agree...
Everything he's saying is true. 100%. So whether or not you want to listen or reject it because you reject religion, is on you, not him. He should be able to speak truth clearly, as he is doing, and it's up to everyone else to decide if they want to accept that or not.
The fact of the matter is, these gender roles and gender differences WERE established by God. That's true whether you believe it or not. So to say this guy should just not say that or not get into the fact that God is involved in this conversation, is really ridiculous. We are talking about how men and women were created to be... of course God is an important part of that conversation.
If you want to leave God out of it, that's your choice, but I think people who leave God out of the conversation are missing a massive piece of the puzzle and will never be able to come to a full, complete understanding of what the final puzzle is supposed to look like. This guy's got all the pieces, and he's figured it out. You should listen to him, instead of automatically having a negative opinion of what he has to say because he's talking about God. Kinda sad, especially, to see a Christian man on your show having the same view that this guy should stop talking about God so much...
I used to think like Taylor(?). But then I realized that I'm just trying to take God out of the conversation, to appeal to people who don't believe in Him, and that's not okay as a Christian. God is a part of the conversation, and I will not shy away from speaking about him because "people won't take me seriously." If people don't take me seriously because they don't want to face the reality that God exists and that they are morally responsible to follow Him, then that's their issue, not mine.
I agree!!
I agree
I COMPLETELY agree with you. You cant define these roles without God. I think they are just saying there is a better way to go about it. They are non believers, so you cant just say "Beleive in God. Have a Biblical worldview." They need to be evangelized in some sense. I think for these conversation we can bring up Christianity but we also need to bring up things that are undeniably true (even for non-believers) this will help cement our arguments even more.
Totally I agree! I don't like how Amala keeps dismissing his points just because he's a Christian.
As a non believer. If you say the path to being masculine or the path to anything really only happens through your mythology. I’m probably not listening to anything you say past that point because you’re trying to push me towards your mythology.
A good friend of mine is a priest. You want to know one thing he’s never done when I’ve asked him for advice on a topic. Say that I needed to go to church or accept god. Now he has directed me to the Bible to read one of the stories to see if that would help me see my problem from a different perspective.
But when you frame your life in a “the only way to live is if you follow the same path I am” way. You’re probably an asshole and I’m not going to listen. I feel the same when an atheist says a moral person can’t be religious, or when a religious person says the same. You’re showing that you don’t have the capacity to see anything outside your box.
Amala talks about how her BF took her to a really nice first dinner and how it meant a lot to her. Then she also talks about how if you can't afford 150$ dinners, tell the girl you don't have money and get a coffee..... haha. Man if only women could experience being a guy for a few months.
The right woman will care more about the time spent with you rather than how expensive a date is :)
@@rockyroad179 If you don't do everything well in the first few interactions the "right" woman won't be getting to know you at all. She's on to the next guy who understands how to peacock perfectly, who has no moral qualms about lying and being fake to get what he wants. This is the very reason girls complain about douche bags constantly. ~30% of guys will do and say whatever they need to, and it works.
The first few dates are very simple, it's the same as the first few conversations. You have to display value, taking a girl to mc donalds is going to be your first and last date 99% of the time.
The "right women will care about time spent with you" is such a typical response. And yes, its true, ONCE she already likes you and you have done everything correctly to get to that point. Women build up fantasies in their mind of meeting the right guy all their lives and all the boxes that need to be checked, and this is fine. Tell me, in your perfect dinner date scenerio what restaurant are you at?
Men only require one box to be checked when dating, is she attractive. This is an easy box to check and women often believe a guy is more into them, when the reality is that this is the only box they need to check and it's not hard. My advice to women in attracting the right guy, would be to imagine what other boxes this guy might have. What would it take to check the long term gf potential, have kids with, wife material, shared interests, caring, peaceful, good life teammate etc boxes. If you don't believe a guy sees that potential in you, he's only there because you're checking the first box.
Ok, I'll stop ranting.
I think the point is if you can't afford to date, wait, plan and be very selective with the women you choose to date
@@steph6109 That's exactly my point. A man must be able to "afford" the date that persuades a woman of his value. A woman does not. And Amala speaks as though this isn't important, when she herself admitted to finding and thus dating a man who could "afford" her more ideal date, while simultaneously telling men to just go somewhere cheaper.
Women have far more criteria for who they select than simply looks when it comes to long term relationships. They are taught to from a very young age and it's part of evolution. And for good reasons.
Doesn't it seem somewhat patronizing for someone who was attracted to the more expensive date, to act as though any date would have sufficed and that it's not about money when it so clearly is? Lets not pretend that some cheap fast food date, or grabbing a coffee is going to yield the same results as 5 star restaurants. She openly states to wanting to be support by a man on many occasions, despite being quite successful herself. Clearly money matters to her.
Id have more respect for someone who just says "yes, expensive dates do matter, it's a measure of the kind of lifestyle a man can provide, and that's something women look for"
@@SmthIcanNvrHave I don’t think it’s that black and white though. I think while it’s every woman’s preference to have a $150 date at Ocean Prime over a $10 date at Starbucks, life happens and the *right woman* will understand that many young men are still figuring out their financial situation. I would love to have a fancy date with a guy but I’m also a college student, most of the guys i’ve been on a date with are college age or + a few years, we can’t afford $150 here and there. The initiative of the man to even just pay $10, the honesty in him saying he can’t afford the expensive date, the dedication to providing a nicer date someday when financially possible, these are all signs of a responsible, caring, honest, masculine man. If a woman does not accept this, then she is not the right woman, and you saved yourself $150 in the long run.
i’m a single mom, hearing all this makes me want to go find my son a father but it’s hard to date as a single mom! not to mention it’s hard to find a person with similar morals when it comes to raising a child.
Yeah it's very hard for a single mother to find someone, especially a young woman. But keep looking. I took on a single mother and raised her child as my own. We are out there, keep looking and don't give up hope.
@@GreenFalcon926 thank you that’s nice to hear :))
You don’t need a man to raise your child with good morals. You’re doing great the way you are and don’t need to “find a man” quickly to help raise ur child! Don’t listen to these people
@@Matthew-sl8dx thank you!
Lol, while having a father in the home is important, don't sacrifice quality. It does seem way harder now than ever to find a guy with that balance these days.
As a GenX individual, these conversations are very interesting. Many of my generation are seeing this decade through our children's eyes & the 1st generation that had tech/digital devices to enter the home and many of us were latchkey kids (free range kids). Each generation wants to fix the problems they thought they saw while growing up (hence the helicopter parenting). I am the generation who got married young (21), had kids young (25), but the 1st generation where both the husband & wife went to college. I define masculinity as having traits that appear as strength (muscular & less emotionally based), logic oriented, interested in tactile/visible things, desire to fix things, and more physical than communicative. Where as feminine traits are basically the Ying to the masculine Yang... nurturing, desire to make things, more emotion based, and more interested in personal relationships than things. I see these traits in my children and the children I teach as well.
"Men are logic" lol
Yes I agree, and could not have said it any better myself. Well done mate.
Lol I like the "free range kids"term. I don't believe I've heard it before..latch key kids was the term for us that I'm familiar with. But "free range" is a perfect tho in describing what we were as kids. I don't know how old you are, but I'm 41, and we pretty much DID have free range to kinda do what we wanted. We rode our bikes to school..when we got home our parents were still at work, so we usually let ourselves in, and make ourselves a sandwich, maybe do a few quick things our parents wanted us to do when we got home, maybe or maybe do homework, then it was back on the bike and off to go meet up with friends for a bit. We had free run of the neighborhood, and as long as we were back home by dinner, or at least before dark, Mom and Dad didn't worry too much about it. We were probably the last generation to have that kind of freedom to be honest. I don't know when things began to change, but it does kinda seem like it was around the time technology really began to take off, and the internet and video games started become more and more prevalent. I don't know about you, but I wasn't allowed to hang around the house on the computer, or watching TV and playing video games all day. Mom would come in and turn the TV off and say, "Nope! You're not going to sit and watch TV all day. It's Saturday...go outside and find something to do." It just so strange to me how dependent and reliant that kids are on technology, and how they are perfectly fine with sitting inside all day. It's weird not to see kids on their bikes..or pass by one open field after another and not seeing a football or baseball game going on..or groups of kids hanging out and interacting with each other at the places that I hung out with my buddies as a kid, and my older brothers hung out at, and so on. It all changed when technology changed. Free range kids are extinct now, and it's kinda sad.
Logic is gender neutral. However masculinity is more action oriented whilst femininity is more passive and solution oriented.
@Chrystiana W ik it makes sense to an extent, but for some reason hearing people say "Men are leaders, women are more passive" kinda gives me an icky feeling. I'm in the air force and have met a large amount of inspiring, mentally tough women. And to me I guess I don't think of them as "masculine," just "strong women." I personally have a hard time defining masculine and feminine, but mostly I use it to describe outter appearancds/demeanor. Like it's just a positive trait in general (gender neutral) to be strong (not saying guys and girls are equally strong, but just cuz a girl is "strong" doesn't make her "masculine" in my opinion), be able to lead people, support your family, etc. I feel like saying feminine = submissive and male = alpha is the reason we have had to push for women's voices to be heard in the first place, cuz people didn't take us seriously, cuz we shouldn't be the ones "leading or providing."
@@chrystianaw8256, solutions come from logic. In your own words, logic is gender neutral...