Just a small thought… I find it so sad and ironic that “trans women are women” is a valid statement to so many who also tell less-traditionally masculine men “you aren’t a real man.”
I find the opposite actually.. The ones who tell feminine men "you aren't a real man" and call them a "little bitch" or "a pussy" are typically the same people who *DON'T* believe that trans women are women. I have yet to see the opposite if I'm being honest here.
@@azayzelderegis1655 it’s majorily feminists on the internet who want to “support” trans people and are anti-men or will spread this rhetoric that it’s okay for men to be feminine but deep down that’s now how they feel.
AKA The 'hypocrisy of the Narcissist'. Narcissists (the 'Woke') don't have any Self-Awareness, and directly 'Project' their own mindset and behavior instead (ie Racism, Fascism, Sexism, etc). It also enables the Narcissist to Deflect from Reality...as Narcs do. You'll see ALL elements which make up the Narcissist Left, do this. From BLM to Islam to the Female Narcissist to the Transgender Narcissist. It's 'Narcissist Projection'...a form of gaslighting abuse. Watch closely. 'Woke' Covert Narcissists tend to always describe themselves. 'Projection' is a primary trait of Narcissism.
Ouch! Poor cowboy, you guys ripped his what is a man answer right off the bat! It's not his fault he knows exactly what HE thinks a man is. It's not his fault he is on a different level than these other guys. It's just his answer. I mean, at least he gave one!
His answer, aptly, was extremely manly! The expectation nowadays is that you're in crisis, struggling to find yourself, overcoming trauma and toxicity and finding a new way of being beyond the evil 'patriarchy'. That is what gets applause. Men are basically supposed to hate themselves as they are and work on being 'better'. He totally flew in the face to today's orthodoxy.
Exactly! The thing about this question of what is masculinity is that it’s changed so much. Before w what gender roles which made a distinction between women and men. Back then masculinity was being the one out getting money and providing for your family. You were the protector and the one who was strong while women were the opposite so it was easier to define what is masculine and what is feminine. Of course there are exceptions to this, there are women who have to take on more masculine traits because of their environment. This isn’t a perfect world so those idea of masculinity will shift and change if you don’t have something grounding it like faith. These things are very dependent on how you grow up and your environment. Although men are the ones who are supposed to provide (in my opinion as a Christian) and women are the ones who are able to sit back and let their husband lead because he loves her and she trusts him. It doesn’t mean in other situations the woman will be the one who has to provide for her family because the man didn’t do his job and instead left her to do that on her own. When you aren’t grounded in something masculinity and femininity can be whatever you want.
@@aranisles8292 yes.. also white guilt. All this toxic masculinity debate seems to keep white men at the centre because they hate themselves and others too because society and politics influences people to believe they are racist as well. Crazy times.
Y'all bashing on the Christian guy with 5 points but he's not wrong. If the nonbinary guy is allowed to come with all his lingo the Christian guy can come with his. He's there to provide his point of view and it's a really solid point within Christianity. Yes, women can be leaders and can provide for their families and can show sacrificial love, but that is what the Bible specifically tells men they are supposed to do. Men are called to love their wives as Jesus loved the Church, which is he laid down his life and sacrificed everything for her.
I agree. You can just change “biblical” to “biological”. I am not even really Christian, but I believe the biblical principles for “gender” is exactly how we are biologically wired, MOST of the time. Of course their are outliers, but by in large it applies.
@@jonathandevereaux298 no? They were asked what it means to them. He's allowed to have his own view of what he views masculinity to be. People are allowed to have opinions and it doesn't mean they are automatically bashing or hating people who don't fit into that.
Cowboy is not losing me! He IS defining what masculinity means to him...he is upholding a vision and morality that many people understand and agree with. His voice is relevant even if nobody in the room can relate to it.
@@AdidTurreno because to him God shows him what a man should do to fulfill the role of ‘man’ or husband/father. You don’t have to agree, but a large portion of the U.S population are religious
@Andrei Tudor To people who center their lives on following God ( not only christians) this is their moral foundation...their lived experience as it were, so why is it such a barrier to people to listen to? Seems to me that his viewpoint may be just as illuminating to people listening as any of the others shared in this discussion.
@@caliconservative20 Sure, but only for people who already believe in god. If he talked about the themes and values and morals he wants people to follow without saying "god said it so it must be so" more people might be able to resonate with him who aren't christian.
Because a debate means we need different opinions from people who will challenge the other side's beliefs, so I think they did a good job with the discussion
@@anyadarlingg He really didn't have any beliefs. He was just a contrarian for the sake of being combative. Even the other gay gentleman had to put him in his place which was awesome.
Man, my first thought. Their main goal seemed to be to intrude on the space and be combative and non-productive. Everyone else seemed to have an approach of good faith and to develop a point.
The irony is the only one on the panel who exhibited behaviours that I’d describe as “toxic” was literally the one that doesn’t even identify as a man or masculine. Griffin was rude, condescending, arrogant and dismissive and was the only one to actually attack any other person on the panel rather than dealing with the ideas being put forward. The most feminine dude was the most toxic.. I think there’s something to that.
He exemplifies stereotypes of womanhood like a costume. No woman I know acts like this. I've never known catty women like the other vice video either. It's so weird
That’s because Griffins ideology preaches “we are right about everything, it’s impossible for us to be wrong because we know everything about everything”. Griffin is insecure and weak, so not surprising he cut everyone else down
I had a guy argue with me that his body con dress and makeup was masculine. I was like, wear what you want, but do not try to convince me that you’re masculine
The action of wearing whatever you want and holding your ground even when people give you shit for it is pretty masculine, but the clothes themselves are definitely not masculine.
@@notmyrealname8282 It's basically just a figure hugging tight dress, that's meant to accentuate your curves. I don't know what curves a man hopes to accentuate by wearing one, but still......
A failure of understanding the basics here: Just because a trait is attributed to females, doesn't exclude it from being a masculine trait. Both men and women nurture for example, but they do it in different ways that provide balance to a child. - You need to avoid falling into the trap of binary or exclusionary thinking.
That's exactly what I was thinking at rhe beginning. My wife is one of the strongest people I know, which I would consider a masculine trait, but that doesn't make her manly. I'm caring, compassionate, and affectionate to my wife and my two daughters, but that doesn't make me womanly. Her shortsighted view that if something is masculine that a woman can't possess that that trait is absurd
Thank God for this comment I see this all the time with young people and why I do not like listening. The sort of people who believe themselves to be intelligent but still think things are black and white that aren’t is overwhelming. I always think as Socrates said “the more that I learn the more I realize that I know nothing”
I think Amala os more so doing that out of necessity. Like no one is defining so let’s just define it first before we move on and dissect it? Find what is just for men and men only and what for women and women only (that can always not be adhered to but th here IS consequences to actions and you must deal with the fall out.
God I miss the good old days of the 80s and 90s when men were men and women were women and the definition of what is a woman (an adult human female)and what is a man (an adult human male) was crystal clear. I hate to say it but I think that the feminist movement has actually emasculated men with everyone throwing out toxic masculinity so badly that men don't even know what a man should be anymore. I get so tired of seeing men wearing make up, jewelry and women's clothes with facial or body hair. I have respect for transgender men/women that suffer from gender dysphoria but the non binary group are just delusional or mentally ill. Human's aren't non binary and gender has never been and never will be a social construct John Money's own John/Joan case that he hoped would back his gender theory proved the opposite that it doesn't matter how you raise a child nature always wins. Sorry I am out I should have known the non binary man would go there.
My mom and stepdad moved to California and my stepdad use to present as a very generic male. Now he dresses like a woman. Wears makeup, women’s jewelry, and all that. My mom says it’s just the culture out in California but it’s very hard to accept here in Florida. I’m sorry but Gender is biological. Male, man, boy are humans with male reproductive organs (testicles, sperm, p***s) necessary to fertilizing the egg of a female. Female, woman, girl are humans with reproductive organs that are capable at bearing children (uterus, ovaries, eggs). And just because some people aren’t capable of these roles doesn’t mean that they are some other gender. No they have those parts they just don’t function to the standard. People use infertility or sterile as means to tear down this structure. But infertile women still have the organs associated with biological females.
I too miss the good old days where everyone agreed that facts were concrete without question rather than now where there are delusional people that say that a fact is fluid and subjective according to how they feel.
I have been with my husband 7 years. I have seen him cry 3 times. He's seen me cry probably 3 times a week average. I honestly NEED his emotional stability to live properly. When he's too rigid, my intuition and feelings come in handy to him. He sat down 2 nights ago and told me how time has shown him that my intuition has been right. I told him how his reasoning has helped me analyze certain situations. We are built to compliment each other in so many ways. We are 2 pieces of a puzzle.
Wow!!! That's why marriage is so important. You complement one another and you both strengthen one another in areas where one may need support and you both communicate with one another. This is beautiful. ❤
Literally commented on there how respectfully civil the host and guests were compared to the recent feminism video Vice had. One person told me I was upholding the patriarchy as men are taught to hide their emotions and they become scared when confronted with people being emotional. Like no, the main problem most people had with that video was just a bunch of rude jerks laughing & yelling over one another as they tried to talk.
Emotional men tend to be violent men… this is why we learn to control our emotions. It’s that simple. I don’t know why people want to glorify drama. Sober minded logical and civil. That is how men ideally communicate regardless of feelings.
also the moderator is doing a wonderful job here in giving chances to everyone to speak their mind and enganging more with the panel. I feel like the moderator in the feminism panel didn't do enough "moderating"
Did you see the feminist panel before the last one you're referring to? Those women were respectful and had good conversations. The panel you speak of was just a mess. Very diabolical personalities
@@nofearonlylove21 I was talking about the more recent femnist panel from two weeks ago being a bit of a trainwreck, the one from 3 years ago though yes was a lot better. Edit: I’m just comparing this discussion to the more recent Femnist discussion because there closer in time frame with one happening directly after the other.
I think Amala took an extremely liberal point of view on the masculinity. Both hosts were extremely dismissive of Kacey’s point, yet him and Christian were the only ones who actually said anything with their answer on what is masculinity.
It was kind of annoying how she kept dismissing his point of view because they would not relate to a Christian point of view… what about a “non binary” point of view? How can anyone else relate to that? wasn’t the point of this to bring different view points together?
It’s not a “liberal take” to say that it’s not fair to attribute masculinity as only being associated with someone’s relationship with God simply because not everyone believes in him. It’s only fair to look at the biological and psychological aspects of it and how that translates into society. What they said were facts. 🤷
@@lilmupp875 yeah but it’s about what HIS opinion is about what masculinity truly is. He’s going to add his faith into it that doesn’t mean that’s everyone definition of it but at least he gave a definition set in stone rather than not giving a definition at all.
I love how the cowboy articulated himself in the opening. Griffin calls himself non-binary which doesn't even exist, but the cowboy shares his beliefs and you guys talk down about him for it? Why? Everything he said was spot on. Recognizing yourself as a creation made by a Creator is a good first step to defining any part of the human experience, especially masculinity. Do you really think the man in the pretty dress has a more grounded sense of self than the man who is Godly? Do better.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I was surprised that they compared him to a child during show and tell. This gentleman was giving his prepared thoughts on what he felt defined masculinity. Again, thanks for your perspective on that moment. :)
I’m sure he knows about grandma’s wooden spoon. Besides a symbol of authority it doubles as a few other things. But, basically to train your mind. Almost like the Pavlov’s dog experiment. You see her with that spoon you either expect food or to be reprimanded🤣
Not everyone is Christian, and many non believers have a sense of self. It’s not a pissing contest of who’s a better human being. So I don’t agree that someone who’s self proclaimed “godly” is always a good person solely for being a Christian.
@@joshuacavazos8869 I didn't say anything about anyone being a good person or better human. Non-believers may have a sense of self, but as Christians, we know that they cannot truly know who they are until they acknowledge who created them. That's our belief. And, regardless of religious beliefs, a man who thinks he doesn't have a human gender at all clearly does not know who he is.
I’m confused as to why they were mad about the definitions given for masculinity by saying “women can do that too” Yes women can do them, but that would still be masculine. She even admits that she has masculine traits, but still didn’t recognize that they were the definitions given by the panel? Peculiar…
There were a few times I was confused about that. Seemed to me like people were mixing up “masculinity” (personality), “being male” (biology), and “male gender roles” (social/action).
My thoughts exactly. There is no such thing as a definition of masculinity that cannot be attributed to some women as well. It's frustrating to watch her look for the impossible.
Simpus Maximus must've been expecting her to move in the same night and start paying bills or something. Either that or he just can't plan more than 12 hours ahead.
My thoughts were he can afford it, but it almost feels like the effort is pointless since he keeps getting rejected. Also I have heard many women (not friends of mine) say they will go out on dates with guys to get free meals, drinks, have a good time, etc. Even if they may not be romantically interested in the guy. Personally I think he needs to pick cheaper dates ideas, and maybe stop using dating apps if he is doing so, cuz a lot of women just go on there to pass free time and gain validation, and not take it very seriously 🤷 it's sad
@@anyadarlingg whether consciously or not, many men think they need to purchase a woman. Society encourages the idea that women are objects, emotionally unstable ones, that need to be placated. This can be seen with expressions like "happy wife, happy life" as if the man must constantly bend the knee. Guy just needs more self respect and to date someone his equal so he won't feel the need to castrate himself.
He's either going to a bar or a very fancy restaurant. Either way if he has regret afterwards, he either can't afford these places or has silly expectations. I suspect if they slept with him he wouldn't have regret, which is probably his first mistake. If he is looking for a actual partner he should start that relationship off on an honest note. The type of girl that won't look at his badly for not spending 150 bucks on her is the likely the type he may have success with.
It would weird me out if a man spent a $150 on a first date or even a 3rd date unless he had the right attitude to go with it. The fact that this guy over spent and he’s complaining about something he chose to do because it didn’t achieve his desired results shows he’s most likely one of those men that hover and too eager to please. A think the term is beta male.
My boyfriend grew up a sensitive momma's boy who was called a sissy by his dad constantly. He was told he wasn't a real man because he didn't play sports or do anything "manly." He's not feminine by any means, he's just more in touch with his emotions but is man enough for me. Full beard, tech nerd, plays DnD, and loves action movies. He's more masculine than that "they" on the panel by a long shot.
Your boyfriend sounds like a real catch! ❤ I often wonder if the reason why there's been such an increase in gender non conforming people is because they've heard so many messages stating that a male who acts too feminine is not a "real man", and a female who acts too masculine is not a " desirable woman". And now people are scratching their heads wondering why so many people have given into that criticism and are labeling themselves as non binary or trans. Just a theory. I could be totally wrong!
If that's the kind of man you want, that's cool. Seriously, but if he gets picked on while in a sphere of dudes that are highly testosterone filled he won't take it well. Same goes the other way, the extremes are just that way. This episode of Jubilee was not fair at all to me. Combined you may have the average guy but none of them showed what an average man would be and left out other nuances
People.. ALL THESE MEN, are ALL too scared to be honest with what they really think.. other than Cowboy Man. Fathers are the MOST IMPORTANT ROLES in a child’s life. The #1 role
The same sex parent will be the biggest influence on them and the other parent will be who their self worth or lack there of is attributed to. A father to a daughter is the one who shows her how she should be treated with how important she is to him. Also she watches how he treats her mom.
I was a single Dad, she left us when my son was 8months old. Masculinity changes after a child is born. Strength, honor, loyalty, compassion and love. I worked a blue collar job, read a book to my son every night before he went to bed, cooked every night. Could go on for paragraphs. Long story short my son is a masculine MAN, totally proud. Glad I found your channel
Amala, I think you are overlooking the unrealistic standards that men have to meet in modern dating. Which is shocking because you are fully aware of how much woke culture and feminism has taken over modern day women… so who do you think are on these dating apps? As a woman who is bisexual, it is a hell of a lot harder to try to date a woman than it is to date a man. They literally require so much for no reason/nothing in return. It’s hard to even have a conversation with a woman now a days. Do you know how many women’s bios name “food” as an interest or activity… like thanks for letting me know you’re human I guess? The things that modern women in the dating pool are asking for are NOT basic things. They’re not asking for men to walk on the outside of the curb for them lolll they literally don’t even care about that anymore. How modest of you.
I have recently had a conversation with a non binary person (a biological guy) and I was trying to get an answer about what it means to be masculine form him for about 2 hours. He kept giving me answers along the line of “well, generally speaking…” or “in American culture…” and at some point I told him directly to stop dodging the question and tell me what masculinity means to him specifically. And he replied that it’s really hard to generalize and explain. After that I asked how he can be neither a man nor a woman if he can’t identify either of those and received an answer (next day) that we should no longer debate about issues we’re not fully educated on :(
Honestly. Non Binary is just about Having no gendered expectations. The whole gender debate is about side stepping responsibilities that come with your sex. Most people would fall under 'non-binary'
Okay but how do they expect to become educated on topics if they won't pursue the conversation after being unable to produce an answer? Not producing an answer is the literal reason and motivation research and further education.
I guarantee you when women say they want a man that's emotionally available, they mean a man that's a great listener. Us men like to think through our problems and figure out a solution, often solo. Women like to air out their problems by telling someone about it. Usually their boyfriend or husband. Summed up, as guys, listen to your girlfriend/wife. Be attentive, but DO NOT offer a solution unless she explicitly asks for help in that regard. This is just one of the major differences between men and women.
Masculinity is just traits associated with the plurality of men. These would be positive attitudes towards sex, emotional stability (not meaning less emotions, but less variance in emotional state), and disagreeableness. I would also personally want to add an increased respect for meritocracy and hierarchy. Men in general respect men who have proven themselves even if they are generally disagreeable.
This is by far the best comment to describe the difference. One comment was like "masculine is logical, and feminine is emotional." Hahaha. Like have they never met a man? Maybe they were one idk.
Yeah. I felt this discussion addressed some good things but didn't address the 'fundamental points' of masculinity beyond the gender stereotypes which we love so much. Having a discussion about how accessible being a woman is would have been helpful or how you can build masculinity based on an idea of hierarchy and accomplishments with a discussion on how this isn't exclusive of 'women' but can explain why the classes exist in the first placeseparations
@@DelphineTheWorstBladeEver Right. A way better statement is 'Men respect hierarchy and there is a relative way for ascertaining when one man is more accomplished than another as reference through dating.' Hell, I recall when the asian guy started talking about being in the hole financially how Hasan referenced 'you need to do better. you need to be more attractive.' I feel that atleast references to the fundamental aspects of what makes masculinity.
I agree with your comment and how these traits are found conventionally in men really comes down to the biological differences between sexes. Due to differences in hormones; testosterone behavioural characteristics include increased aggression, dominance, impulsiveness, increased libido, social anxiety and neuroticism. This doesn’t include the physical differences testosterone provides such as increased muscle mass, bone mass, and fat distribution. Through hundreds of thousands of years we have evolved and used these biological traits as an advantage to our society and success (debatable), but mainly survival as a race. When you speak of respecting other men, it comes from the biological need to be dominant and being able to appreciate competition. It was the way we survived for 250,000 years. Men and women can have respect for their peers. So it doesn’t really speak to the core idea of masculinity in itself. It’s a byproduct of masculinity which is biological, can be measured and is not subjective.
@@rylan182 i mean, we disagree but you may be over essenntializing men a tad. There are plenty of societies in which what you described stands true but people doing the things dont have penises. What you described creates a natural distribution. What we have in the West as we understand it arose because of its cirumstances in relation to the aspects.
I think this is the first time I've found myself pushing back against Amalas' opinions a bit. Also, it is a bit hypocritical to be like, "Don't pay for $150 date (which I agree), but then bring up your bf taking you on a memorable, expensive first date, lol. Also, since when are women ok with paying half for a date? Lol not where I am
I too found myself correcting her ignorance on the differences of men and women, this was obviously a place where she still retains some of her prior woke feminist beliefs. Also too, her male counterpart showed some emasculate thoughts and behavior, a product of modern society as it weakens men and destroys family units.
This was also my first time disagreeing with some of her points, especially at the beginning. There are still many things we all agree on, so I’m trying to hold on to that.
The half bill thing is more common in college type situations where it's understood not everyone has the money to pay for two people's meals potentially over and over if the date doesn't pan out. My husband paid for our movie tickets on our first date and I paid for dessert after. I guess it's also worth noting that I grew up with financial stress so a $150 first date would've freaked me out and made me think: "This idiot doesn't know how to manage money if he's just throwing it away on a first date!" but this combined with a more common concern that I think other women have which is: "I can't let someone spend this much money on me as it creates an obligation and now I don't know if I like him or if I just feel guilty for not just ordering a salad cause I'm *hungry*".
If you’re asking her out the ball is in your court. That basically means be the/a man and take charge. You want her. Not the other way around. If she doesn’t like it then obviously you gotta move on. But, clearly as the guy you’re attempting to impress her😂
As always when you get a bunch of guys to come together to talk about masculinity the conversation is civil, humorous, and wholesome. Why did the women fail to have a conversation like this?
Because when males have conflict and the argument goes too far, violence is on the table, whereas females typically use social and reputational aggression. Females typically dont engage in physical violence, so they use language and social manipulation.
I am crying as I am typing this out, they are tears of sorrow and joy I have been struggling for years and years about feeling so masculine all the time. I have always felt so angry and I knew I wasn't supposed to. I was a single parent for years and raised myself. I have always taken on these masculine traits. I met my husband and he is not traditionally masculine all the time. He is submissive in a lot of ways. I love that about him. He doesn't love that about him, just like I don't love my masculine traits. I felt we all had to be in boxes. This episode is the best episode of any podcast I have ever seen. You have saved our marriage and saved our family from being a broken home. I have always heard the term masculine woman or feminine man and never really understood it till I heard y'all talking about this. I see now that my anger stems from the fact that I don't accept myself as a woman. I am still a woman even though I am not very feminine all the time. My husband is a man even though he isn't masculine all the time.
Yes. You are a woman. No matter what your personality or traits u are deserving of seeing yourself as a woman and liking yourself. Hugs. Your husband is a great and respectable man, this is not dependent on on his masculinity.
Griffin derailed everything. He had zero stake in the issue and therefore didn't belong there. It's good to know that perspective exists, though. He lets us know where things might be heading.
i’m a single mom, hearing all this makes me want to go find my son a father but it’s hard to date as a single mom! not to mention it’s hard to find a person with similar morals when it comes to raising a child.
Yeah it's very hard for a single mother to find someone, especially a young woman. But keep looking. I took on a single mother and raised her child as my own. We are out there, keep looking and don't give up hope.
You don’t need a man to raise your child with good morals. You’re doing great the way you are and don’t need to “find a man” quickly to help raise ur child! Don’t listen to these people
Lol, while having a father in the home is important, don't sacrifice quality. It does seem way harder now than ever to find a guy with that balance these days.
Masculinity is simple. It's about being physically and mentally tough. Going after what you want despite fears. Doing what needs to be done as well. Being a leader.
I disagree. Like Amala said, women can be physically and mentally tough, they can be ambitious despite fears, do what needs to be done, and be leaders. It's the way one does this that makes it masculine or feminine. For example, doing a job such as construction, I would consoder more masculine, and a job such as therapy more feminine. This is because men tend to be more physcially stronger, while women tend to be more empathetic and to understamd relationships and people better. Either way, a man and a woman both have the ability to provide, and they both can (it doesn't mean they often do) do it in a feminine or masculine way. Women can, if they are strong, work in construction and men can, if they can understand people well enough, work as therapists. And examples like this apply to all the other attributes.
@Andrei Tudor , men and women contain both masculine and feminine energy. Think of it as a YinYang symbol.☯️ Men contain mostly masculine energy while women contain mostly feminine. The balance of energies within us can be changed based on our behavior and actions, but our core energy is always dominant. I'll omit the details as I could write an essay on it if I kept going lol.
As a Christian, I 100% agree with everything the Christian guy said, and I find it really absurd that you guys just dismiss every word out of his mouth by saying he should stop talking about religion because other people won't agree... Everything he's saying is true. 100%. So whether or not you want to listen or reject it because you reject religion, is on you, not him. He should be able to speak truth clearly, as he is doing, and it's up to everyone else to decide if they want to accept that or not. The fact of the matter is, these gender roles and gender differences WERE established by God. That's true whether you believe it or not. So to say this guy should just not say that or not get into the fact that God is involved in this conversation, is really ridiculous. We are talking about how men and women were created to be... of course God is an important part of that conversation. If you want to leave God out of it, that's your choice, but I think people who leave God out of the conversation are missing a massive piece of the puzzle and will never be able to come to a full, complete understanding of what the final puzzle is supposed to look like. This guy's got all the pieces, and he's figured it out. You should listen to him, instead of automatically having a negative opinion of what he has to say because he's talking about God. Kinda sad, especially, to see a Christian man on your show having the same view that this guy should stop talking about God so much... I used to think like Taylor(?). But then I realized that I'm just trying to take God out of the conversation, to appeal to people who don't believe in Him, and that's not okay as a Christian. God is a part of the conversation, and I will not shy away from speaking about him because "people won't take me seriously." If people don't take me seriously because they don't want to face the reality that God exists and that they are morally responsible to follow Him, then that's their issue, not mine.
I COMPLETELY agree with you. You cant define these roles without God. I think they are just saying there is a better way to go about it. They are non believers, so you cant just say "Beleive in God. Have a Biblical worldview." They need to be evangelized in some sense. I think for these conversation we can bring up Christianity but we also need to bring up things that are undeniably true (even for non-believers) this will help cement our arguments even more.
As a non believer. If you say the path to being masculine or the path to anything really only happens through your mythology. I’m probably not listening to anything you say past that point because you’re trying to push me towards your mythology. A good friend of mine is a priest. You want to know one thing he’s never done when I’ve asked him for advice on a topic. Say that I needed to go to church or accept god. Now he has directed me to the Bible to read one of the stories to see if that would help me see my problem from a different perspective. But when you frame your life in a “the only way to live is if you follow the same path I am” way. You’re probably an asshole and I’m not going to listen. I feel the same when an atheist says a moral person can’t be religious, or when a religious person says the same. You’re showing that you don’t have the capacity to see anything outside your box.
You have to be able to define something before you can re-define it. Problem is there are those that are trying to re-define things without even knowing what the definition is.
Masculine traits are not only exclusive to men but being strong both mentally and physically for your family and your community. It is not that women can’t be but that men are primarily that.
As a GenX individual, these conversations are very interesting. Many of my generation are seeing this decade through our children's eyes & the 1st generation that had tech/digital devices to enter the home and many of us were latchkey kids (free range kids). Each generation wants to fix the problems they thought they saw while growing up (hence the helicopter parenting). I am the generation who got married young (21), had kids young (25), but the 1st generation where both the husband & wife went to college. I define masculinity as having traits that appear as strength (muscular & less emotionally based), logic oriented, interested in tactile/visible things, desire to fix things, and more physical than communicative. Where as feminine traits are basically the Ying to the masculine Yang... nurturing, desire to make things, more emotion based, and more interested in personal relationships than things. I see these traits in my children and the children I teach as well.
Yes I agree, and could not have said it any better myself. Well done mate. Lol I like the "free range kids"term. I don't believe I've heard it before..latch key kids was the term for us that I'm familiar with. But "free range" is a perfect tho in describing what we were as kids. I don't know how old you are, but I'm 41, and we pretty much DID have free range to kinda do what we wanted. We rode our bikes to school..when we got home our parents were still at work, so we usually let ourselves in, and make ourselves a sandwich, maybe do a few quick things our parents wanted us to do when we got home, maybe or maybe do homework, then it was back on the bike and off to go meet up with friends for a bit. We had free run of the neighborhood, and as long as we were back home by dinner, or at least before dark, Mom and Dad didn't worry too much about it. We were probably the last generation to have that kind of freedom to be honest. I don't know when things began to change, but it does kinda seem like it was around the time technology really began to take off, and the internet and video games started become more and more prevalent. I don't know about you, but I wasn't allowed to hang around the house on the computer, or watching TV and playing video games all day. Mom would come in and turn the TV off and say, "Nope! You're not going to sit and watch TV all day. It's Saturday...go outside and find something to do." It just so strange to me how dependent and reliant that kids are on technology, and how they are perfectly fine with sitting inside all day. It's weird not to see kids on their bikes..or pass by one open field after another and not seeing a football or baseball game going on..or groups of kids hanging out and interacting with each other at the places that I hung out with my buddies as a kid, and my older brothers hung out at, and so on. It all changed when technology changed. Free range kids are extinct now, and it's kinda sad.
@Chrystiana W ik it makes sense to an extent, but for some reason hearing people say "Men are leaders, women are more passive" kinda gives me an icky feeling. I'm in the air force and have met a large amount of inspiring, mentally tough women. And to me I guess I don't think of them as "masculine," just "strong women." I personally have a hard time defining masculine and feminine, but mostly I use it to describe outter appearancds/demeanor. Like it's just a positive trait in general (gender neutral) to be strong (not saying guys and girls are equally strong, but just cuz a girl is "strong" doesn't make her "masculine" in my opinion), be able to lead people, support your family, etc. I feel like saying feminine = submissive and male = alpha is the reason we have had to push for women's voices to be heard in the first place, cuz people didn't take us seriously, cuz we shouldn't be the ones "leading or providing."
Ya...the down fall of society is fathers not being home and mothers thinking they don't need fathers and what they bring. So many spread the lie, "I don't need no man!"...actually ya, you do and so do the kids.
Masculinity is strength. The problem with this panel is people think because the definition of what it means to be a man is changing (that men can be multifaceted and have varying levels of masculinity and femininity) that it means the definition of masculinity is changing, no masculinity is still masculinity.
Instead of dealing with reality, people want to invent "good" masculinity for sake of betterment for society which is an impossible task bcs being good man makes you vulnerable and counterproductive. Like good masculine man shouldn't have multiple women, but biology decided differently
I mean this reminds me of the valuable lesson I learned when I went to boot camp for a week. I outclassed everybody and was rewarded by serving my drill instructors their dinner. Only to turn around and get slighted for the top overall participant. That honor went to a white guy. Who was good don’t get me wrong. But, obviously not nearly as good as I was. Women were passing out and quitting left and right with nowhere to go. They were stuck for the entirety of boot camp unless for medical emergencies, suicide watch, etc. Nevertheless I was pissed and had to take being overlooked on the chin with no protest. To make a long story short I was proud of myself for enduring in the end.
I think there have been historical mens spaces where we shared our frustrations, emotions, and perspectives both safely and among our peers. The barbershop, the happy hour spot, "man" Caves, the basketball court, boy scouts, etc. They werent perfect because there were still some social restrictions we sometimes carried into those spaces (e.g. don't cry like a **** but still tell your story) but if we did go full emotional from cry to expressed rage then it was something bad enough no one could deny. Men show emotion in limited spaces. This is where you heard terms like brotherhood. We may talk a good game of don't show emotions but let's be real...we did in these spaces if you really paid attention. Overtime these spaces began to be demonized ,degraded, blurred by outside opinions and integrations, excessive morality, and made unsafe for men to process their maybe flawed impulses in a place where they won't be ousted and persecuted by the general public and scarlet letter because of trigger happy labelling of someone desperately wanting to fight a -ism ,-ogny, or -archy. A man or boy amongst his peers to find out if his current struggles or thoughts are trippin or extreme and rounded out safely and quietly and so that he can go back into the excessively judgemental world that often handles those same ideas or moments poorly. I will concede that it only takes a few flawed unsavy from those spaces to cause a destructive retaliation to these spaces (it only takes one negative).. like wreckless sabotage by scandel. These spaces were not necessarily among women and therefore it allowed true free expression of those rough edges so that iron sharpens iron. They still exist but now they are Walmart brand quality of those spaces and decreasing. Men hide their flawed emotions and struggle in even more limited spaces now that we have the "thought police" and don't know who will rush to persecute even among peers when they're just currently in that state and trying to figure it out. Someone won't just go hey..That's not it man.....instead they go full fire and brimstone and ostracize beyond rehab. Social justice doesn't rehab well either by its congregation. Same beast.
Yeah. I've been toying about with the idea that maybe men's clubs weren't such a bad thing. Maybe such things could be brought back and beneficial. I'm thinking a place when men can spend time without female interference. There could be a loud bar as a front where everyone can come, but with membership to men only, men could get in the back, have a silent space to relax or to work, maybe a small gym, maybe different spaces in which they could be engaging in different activities, maybe even access to certain services, like a psychiatrist/psychologist, classes for different things, I'm thinking singing and dancing (because singing is great for mental health and dancing helps with women), but also voluntary mentoring for young men for a lower subscription (for both the mentor and the mentoree), stuff like that. All of those things would help men be and become better men, and then when they'd go out in society, that'd be a net benefit for everyone. I know progressives would fight that tooth and nail, but well… progressives are not very good at identifying what's good and what's bad for the long term. The two main problems with this is that I'm not sure how legal that would be nowadays, but also, it would be super expensive, both to put in place, and then to get it to run indefinitely (subscriptions would be for already rich people basically).
Amala talks about how her BF took her to a really nice first dinner and how it meant a lot to her. Then she also talks about how if you can't afford 150$ dinners, tell the girl you don't have money and get a coffee..... haha. Man if only women could experience being a guy for a few months.
@@rockyroad179 If you don't do everything well in the first few interactions the "right" woman won't be getting to know you at all. She's on to the next guy who understands how to peacock perfectly, who has no moral qualms about lying and being fake to get what he wants. This is the very reason girls complain about douche bags constantly. ~30% of guys will do and say whatever they need to, and it works. The first few dates are very simple, it's the same as the first few conversations. You have to display value, taking a girl to mc donalds is going to be your first and last date 99% of the time. The "right women will care about time spent with you" is such a typical response. And yes, its true, ONCE she already likes you and you have done everything correctly to get to that point. Women build up fantasies in their mind of meeting the right guy all their lives and all the boxes that need to be checked, and this is fine. Tell me, in your perfect dinner date scenerio what restaurant are you at? Men only require one box to be checked when dating, is she attractive. This is an easy box to check and women often believe a guy is more into them, when the reality is that this is the only box they need to check and it's not hard. My advice to women in attracting the right guy, would be to imagine what other boxes this guy might have. What would it take to check the long term gf potential, have kids with, wife material, shared interests, caring, peaceful, good life teammate etc boxes. If you don't believe a guy sees that potential in you, he's only there because you're checking the first box. Ok, I'll stop ranting.
@@steph6109 That's exactly my point. A man must be able to "afford" the date that persuades a woman of his value. A woman does not. And Amala speaks as though this isn't important, when she herself admitted to finding and thus dating a man who could "afford" her more ideal date, while simultaneously telling men to just go somewhere cheaper. Women have far more criteria for who they select than simply looks when it comes to long term relationships. They are taught to from a very young age and it's part of evolution. And for good reasons. Doesn't it seem somewhat patronizing for someone who was attracted to the more expensive date, to act as though any date would have sufficed and that it's not about money when it so clearly is? Lets not pretend that some cheap fast food date, or grabbing a coffee is going to yield the same results as 5 star restaurants. She openly states to wanting to be support by a man on many occasions, despite being quite successful herself. Clearly money matters to her. Id have more respect for someone who just says "yes, expensive dates do matter, it's a measure of the kind of lifestyle a man can provide, and that's something women look for"
@@SmthIcanNvrHave I don’t think it’s that black and white though. I think while it’s every woman’s preference to have a $150 date at Ocean Prime over a $10 date at Starbucks, life happens and the *right woman* will understand that many young men are still figuring out their financial situation. I would love to have a fancy date with a guy but I’m also a college student, most of the guys i’ve been on a date with are college age or + a few years, we can’t afford $150 here and there. The initiative of the man to even just pay $10, the honesty in him saying he can’t afford the expensive date, the dedication to providing a nicer date someday when financially possible, these are all signs of a responsible, caring, honest, masculine man. If a woman does not accept this, then she is not the right woman, and you saved yourself $150 in the long run.
I think masculinity is an aura of strength, protection, knowledge, stability, hardness.. I think femininity is an aura of softness, nurturing, feeling, fluidity, emotion. Both men and women can have all these traights to varying degrees. But because it is more an aura than a tangible it is hard to define in words.
I find maleness and true masculinity deeply attractive. I see masculine as an outward strength, inner stability, logical and linear thinking. Character driven behavior i.e., protectiveness, standing on the literal and proverbial front lines, a stillness and straightforward direction of purpose when completing tasks. Some men have the most glorious smell too. Call it pheromones or whatever but I've smelled a few men's scent that literally makes me weak in the knees and drives all sense from my mind. I love men and what they represent. I love that they create things that last a lifetime, I love the way their arm muscles move when they're working on something, I love a strong man's back (weird, yes, but omg yum). Never will I ever, ever find a man who puts on makeup and wears a dress or women's clothing even remotely attractive. In fact, I find it deeply offensive when a man claims to have period cramps and swears he too can be a mom or a woman who thinks getting a penis will give her the amazing God-given traits He instilled in most men.
S/O to your comment. You love real men lol. I agree men who don't even represent as men shouldn't even be in this conversation. Just like biological men shouldn't be in womens convos regarding the woman experience and or fields.
Griffin is imo the only toxic person on that panel. Not for his masculinity (he very much had none) but for just being a very negative person who seemed to hate men. That is true toxicity.
Better than Christian who was damaged growing up, that he needed a man that could provide protection. At least Griffin seemed like a physically and emotionally stronger person.
@@thomasrosendahl2783 Christian just has daddy issues. It's a fairly common phenomenon. But Griffin has very real mental issues that will take years of therapy to overcome. Because of these issues he is a very hateful and toxic individual. I hope he can get help
Christian (who projected his daddy issues and fetishises of a masculine man) was arrogant and loud IMO, he only defended the male stereotypes because that’s what his kink is. And the cowboy guy was pushing his religion too much
@@Matthew-sl8dx Arrogance or a god fearing attitude are perfectly fine as long a you aren't beig toxic and hateful. Griffin literally shoots down every person's opinion and spews factually incorrect hatred towards men when he himself can't even recognise that he is a man. That level of self hatred is beyond anything the other members of the panel had.
Honestly I think using the word "energy" is quite silly. Children don't need to be around "masculine and feminine energies" they need to have both male and female role models in their life.
As a woman I am glad my husband was masculine. He was strong and a good provider but he did have a soft side when it came to our children. I felt safe, he had strength that woman don't have. I don't mind doing the cooking but if he wants to help I love it. I don't want a wimpy man. I contribute as well by Working. You have to now days since everything is very expensive.
I wish my estranged wife appreciated and valued this aspect, I work and provide, I protect, I play with and nurture my children with life wisdom from a man's perspective. I come home and I help cook and clean on top of do my fatherly duty with the kids, when something goes wrong in the house or in the car I do my best to mitigate the problem. But yet, she's unhappy and has separated herself from me, so I'm holding onto hope but preparing myself for the worst, women today just don't take responsibility like they used to. 80% of divorce is filed by women, usually within 3-5 years and often just because they get bored, we men lose everything because they don't hold themselves accountable to the marriage.
@@MoparMikeMM bro there ain’t no way ur ranting on UA-cam abt how ur wife should appreciate you more 💀 you should communicating and finding out what you need to improve, not blaming and ranting about her? Seems like you don’t love her at all and that explains it all
@@Matthew-sl8dx check your ignorance bro, it's showing. I've stood for our relationship several times, I'm not the party at fault, she has borderline personality disorder, ADHD, PTSD, high anxiety and depression. Before me she bounced from relationship to relationship, usually cheated and left, she recently confessed narcissistic tendencies and selfish motivations to the point of not caring who gets hurt as long as she gets her way. I love her even though I have every right to disconnect and move on with the kids... but I still cling to hope that she'll wake up and get help so she can have a happier loving home. It's not conceited to say I pay most the bills and do most of the work in the relationship, because it's true on all merits. I try to be the loving, providing safe place she needs when her inner demons torment her but nothing is good enough, I'm not perfect but to say I don't love her is a down right lie as bold and ugly as Hitlers heart. People like you who browse through comments, not knowing a thing but insert ignorant opinions are what's wrong with the comment section. Now if you have nothing better to do, I ask that you move along because this was ridiculous to even interject such vile garbage. I don't nag or raise my voice to my wife, I supported her choice to be jobless after a meltdown at work a while back so she could get herself in a better mindset, months I took the brunt of her lack of work and diminished house duties. That alone says something
Modern women in america are led to believe that they are "smarter" than man, which fuels their self confidence which leads to these type of embarasments whnever women discuss any topic, they SIMPLY CANNOT BE WRONG
@@fugana5073 well its not necessarily a matter of intelligence. its that women tend to process information from a more emotional lense and in turn end up arguing the same way, whereas men typically process and argue from a more analytical lense.
@@leah6997 in general, emotional arguments are not valid and thus not intelligent arguments. "I feel like" or is not a logical argument and the other group did a lot of that.
Masculinity is what I would call traits that are predominantly male. Provider, protector, accountable, humble, and kind. It doesn't mean that women cannot share these traits, but that the traits are predominantly male. There are always outliers. A man who considers himself as a transgender woman should not have an opinion. They are confusing sex and gender, why would we consider that point of view on this topic? Not to say that they do not have value, but in this topic it would be like putting me on a panel to discuss what it means to be a transgender woman.
Griffin was only interested in being contrary and condescending. He was in a contest and not a debate. As far as I'm concerned, he had nothing of value to offer. The other men, whether you agreed with them or not, were open, non judgmental (unlike Griffin) came across as honest and exposing themselves. I found what they had to say was very interesting. Although the guy that complained of paying $150 for a date came across as a whiner and not being comfortable in his own skin and struggling to find himself. He needs to stay out of the dating world till he finds himself and grows up. I think that men aren't wired to expose their emotions. I don't see that as a weakness or a flaw. They may have very good friends that they might share a problem that they are having but I doubt that they go into detail about their emotions about it. Women are wired differently and open up easily about their emotions and how things affect them. What I think is masculine is someone who wants to make sure I am safe, is chivalrous (hold that door: if they see me struggling with something that requires muscle will offer help; courteous, etc), takes on the "in control" role. I know that these are traits for both men and women but these are some traits that I see as masculine.
I think griffin just disagreed? Which is the whole point of the debate, I don’t understand all this hospitality towards them, do I fully agree with griffin? No. But if we are talking about obnoxious people in this debate Christian and cowboy are 2 strong contenders
@@egrassa1480 that’s exactly the point though, griffin said they do have sides that are masculine, they don’t necessarily have to identify as a man when visually we can see they have masculine characteristics and they acknowledge that. It’s just another “type” of masculinity and the whole point is to have varying views. They all are different griffin included, but ALL of them still have masculine traits in both their biology and appearance.
Masculinity is a male/manly set of traits. Is it unsuprising in this age of single motherhood and fatherless children that it's more common for women embody traditional masculine traits such as being responsible, honorable, good providers, etc? Amala keeps saying "well women can be that" but the fact that a woman cana exhibit a masculine trait doesn't mean it's not a masculine trait. The debate is "what is masculinity" not "what is a male".
Because females are not males… very simple. And as for the last female panel… and for the female episode, those 2 males posing as women should have not been on the panel at all.
I've been married to my wonderful, very masculine husband for eight and a half years. The comments about male loneliness and higher suicid3 rates really caught my attention. One of the great benefits to a healthy marriage for men is that they can really talk to their wives and receive support if they truly feel respected and supported by their wives. That doesn't remove the need for companionship with other males, but I know my husband appreciates being able to talk about his day or tell me about things that were frustrating. Our "energies," for lack of a better word, are complementary. I make sure to arrange for our couple friends to come over so that he feels connected to his friends because, as a woman, I'm more mindful of social connections. I also encourage him to go golfing with his buddies and spend time with his brothers. We have two kids under the age of 3, so I make sure to encourage him to reach out socially and commend him for being a good father and not guilt trip him. This is so little in the balance of everything that he provides for our little family and me in particular. We support each other in different ways and we enjoy our marriage and being parents.
I think biology comes into this and no one wants to say it. For example, Fortune Feimster is a masculine woman. She's a stand-up comedienne that dresses and carries herself like a man but still "identifies" as a woman. Just like there are effeminate males like Carson Kressley who carries himself like a woman. Then it stops because no one can say what a woman is with a clear definition because they dance around biology trying to save people's feelings. It's a BS hamster wheel powering a music box that plays "This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and, on my friends, some people started singing it not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because"...............
Love your work Amala! I appreciate so much your voice in all this. Here’s my play of ideas with this question: Masculinity is active, positive, brightness, sky, sunshine, fire, hardness, male, daytime, restless, hot… or as the Taoists say, Yang. Femininity is passive, negative, darkness, earth, water, softness, female, night-time, slowness, cold… or as the Taoists say, Yin. The universe runs on duality, no matter how hard we may try we cannot escape that. The only way to experience anything at all is to understand its opposite. I think what people struggle with the most is acknowledging that being a man doesn’t confine you to having only Yang qualities, and being a woman doesn’t confine you to only Yin qualities. In other words, "maleness" or "manliness" is a quality of masculinity, not necessarily an indicator of it. Every moment of every day we all vacillate between them. Take a casual conversation for example: the time you spend talking, you are expressing Yang energy, and the time you spend listening, you are expressing Yin energy. All of us are always both, just depends on how much of either one at any one time.
They're all talking about "Manhood" not Masculinity. Masculinity is defined by the same factors as Femininity. Biology, neurological function, mental cognitive thought and then psychological (Nature Vs Nurture) Both men and women display the same emotions and can display the same traits the difference is how Masculinity or Femininity display them. Women can be aggressive but how do they show that trait? Traits are characterised by Primary and secondary, are they displayed consistently and do they vary from person to person. Femininity due to biology, the brain and nature vs nurture will display aggression predominately through social attacks, rumour mongering, character assassination. Males will display aggression through physical altercation, being loud. Men will instinctively display Nurture by assessing a situation, ensuring the child they are O.k and encourage them to "Get back on the bike" Femininity instinctively displays nurturing through emotional support, both are needed to help a child's development. Empathy in men leans more to "I hear you now I need to give you advice" Empathy in Women "I feel you and I will hold you while you ride the emotional wave" Men and Women can learn different behaviours, men can learn to just let people vent and they don't need to give in to immediately wanting to find a solution and women can learn to cut back on the feels and learn to find the time to start talking about solutions; that's part of nature Vs nurture.
I don't fully agree with the crying metric. The concept sure. Masculinity isn't about never crying, it's about being able to regulate your emotions and be more consistent in them. It is ok to cry, but only in the right circumstances. Crying at a funeral is fine. Bursting into tears in the middle of Walmart, not so much. But in terms of how often a person cries, I don't really think that can be quantified. For example, I can only remember crying twice in the last five years. Stress does not make me cry. Sadness does not make me cry. That's not "unhealthy" per se, it's just reality. I don't put specific effort into not crying, it just doesn't often occur.
Yes! As a woman, I don't cry often as an adult. Maybe once every couple of months when I have a very difficult day and I only cry for a few minutes and feel better. If people feel a lot of relief when crying, go for it! But for me as well, it doesn't relieve stress as well as other methods like exercise
Masculinity is a scale. Masculine traits and feminine traits one on each side. Your "level" of Masculinity is the measurement between masculine and feminine traits.
I'm newer to her channel, but Amala came off as rather condescending in this reaction. She condemned them for not "defining" masculinity, but she couldn't either. When she tried to define it she gave the answer I would expect from a feminist. That on top of constantly bashing the man with religion. A bit much.
Traits of masculinity are the desire to father children, be a strong dependable protective husband, raise your children & be a father and family head with strong principles, adore your family, they are your whole world and you are their leader.
The most valuable purpose of a man on this planet is to build a family provide, protect, guide, and prepare them for the future. What is more important as a man?
OMG. That's like "common courtesy" - opening the door for lady, walking on the outside of the sidewalk shows protection in case a vehicle comes up onto the sidewalk. That guy is a red flag right there.
For people knocking Mr. Cowboy Hat's perspective, what he's saying is not only a valid opinion because he *believes* the Triune God is real; it is objectively factual if the Triune God *is* real, regardless of belief. This is the difference between an opinion and a presupposition.
Religion will never be proved and until then it will never been seen as factual until proven otherwise. Of course to him he might believe it, but it’s not a Fact if it’s still not been proven
Men are lower in agreeableness and neuroticism, therefore we can kind of define masculinity as the ability to regulate negative emotion (leading to stoicism and limiting violent outbursts) and to disagree or push back (even against strong peer pressure, and hopefully respectfully) when something appears incorrect or improper. I think those match well with what society traditionally idealized as healthy masculinity.
Masculinity and Femininity are not the same as being Male or Female. You are male or female biologically , but Femininity is more defined by more emotional, neuring soft trates , masculinity tends to be the more physical , protective, active traits. It the yin and the yang. and each person is on a slider
There are some aspects of masculinity that a man must do to be masculine. If he doesn't, he isn't really masculine. At the same time, while a woman can have those exact same traits, it is not necessary for her to have them for her to be a woman. I think that Amala isn't realizing that. While a woman can work hard and take care of her people, it isn't necessary for her to do so in order to be a woman. It isn't the same for a man. A man must take care of his people.
@@jonathandevereaux298 There is a difference between not taking care of your people and not having people to take care of. If you don't have people, then you don't have someone to take care of.
@@Lance.Gardenhire You say that it's not necessary for a woman to have these traits in order to be a woman. Are you implying here that that's not the case for a man? Is it NECESSARY for a man to have all these traits in order to be a man?
I actually disagree with Amala’s take on this discussion. When the men say being a mane is having integrity, strength, provider and protector, she says that women can be that too. But then when the guys says that women expect all the stuff on a date, she says she should cause she will need a mad with those qualities to provide and protect her is she gets pregnant. It makes no sense. Yes, women can be strong, protective and provide for their family, but should they have to be? Or is it more natural for them to be more nurturing, sensitive, and submissive to take on her role as a mother and wife, which allows the man to take on his role as a husband and father. Or vice versa.
I think she got caught up into thinking they were talking about what defines a man. When they were actually talking about masculine traits, which both genders can exhibit.
I agree with what the guy said with the 5 points. A man a male who can sacrific for the people in his life. He should be the first to sacrific for the family.
Griffin shouldn't have been on that panel. He was very judgemental and constantly blamed "Men" when valid points were brought up. Such as asking for help or mental health struggles. Having 2 hetero parents is not a Western society thing either. Many countries and cultures before us have had a mother and father in "traditional roles." If he doesn't want to have a traditional relationship or family, so be it. He shouldn't be so condescending to those who do.
I'm about 15 minutes in and I'm not sure I can finish this because the commentary, in my opinion, is horrible. Amala and her Co host fail to see that men are not women. So them stopping constantly to say "but women can" or "but women do" whenever someone uses the words principled, responsible and the like is not thought out well. The reason is, again in my opinion, because the consequences are incredibly different. Because men are more geared towards violence and competition these words therefore have a completely different meaning to them and without a strong, let's say attachment, to these words for men you wind up with grapes, murders and many other awful things. Amala and her Co host do this discussion a disservice by brushing the thoughts off with a "but women can".
Here’s what Men bring to the table to women know… Access to resources, education, protection,… Now it’s your turn what do women bring to the table that men do not?
what do you mean exactly with "access to resources and education"? Do you mean a woman being educated by her boyfriend/husband WITHIN a relationship or just women being educated by men in society in general?
I wouldn’t say my husband is a “masculine” or “feminine” man he’s got a good balance of both and I think that’s what ppl should really strive for because too much of one side can be toxic
“She didn’t trick u. U got tricked” ….? Where’s the accountability.. I usually whole hearted agree with the stuff u say. But imo u should’ve let him explain that most women these days who want those boxes checked don’t check a damn box we want checked, before you said “red flag red flag”. U missed the point that clearly he does this stuff every time but wants the same standard of femininity in return. In my opinion u misrepresented this guy because u didn’t listen to his explanation, just his complaint..But I do acknowledge that you kiinda recognized that but it was too little too late :/. “She didn’t trick u, u got tricked” is so lame… Note for creator: I know u didn’t make this content for me, I just respect you enough to give you my opinion and I respect your opinion fully as well
If you speak French (and even if you don’t) there is a song called “Un Homme” by Jérémy Frerot which is all about the struggle of being a man in today’s world and what it means to be a man.
For all the definitions where Amala gets exasperated because women 'can' be.. leaders, strong, etc. that doesn't mean they aren't masculine traits just that women who match those descriptions are showing a masculine behavior. The fact that those descriptions apply in general to a larger majority of men than women helps to prove this is the case. Masculine traits manifest because of fundamental differences in development. Male development enhances features like decisiveness, inclination to physical conflict, stronger attraction to the physical and visceral things around them. The list goes on but the truth is we KNOW that these things are male because it's built in! People may be trying to socially shift the definition but the fact is when you start cultivating males contrary to these fundamentals you are cultivating them away from their inherent nature. Can it be done? Sure. Can some men thrive under it? Definitely. But is there potential to damage a large number of men by socially pressuring them to deny their nature in favor of the opposite feminine traits? I would say there is no doubt and we are already seeing this. All this and it doesnt even touch on the impact of undermining the nature of half our population has on our world at large and socially because the male nature has a ROLE to fulfill in the human existence that you can't just erase and expect it to be fine!
Culturally speaking, there is a sense of what ideal masculinity is and what ideal femininity looks like. Very few people in the world fit these ideals in every single way; the rest of us are doing our best to approach these ideals (or in the case of nonbinary folks, trying their best to NOT fit these ideals). Modern society is telling us in so many different ways that we can still be valuable as men without being this ideal -- but the ideal remains the same. Confident, strong in the face of even the most difficult challenges, doing rather than talking (sorry, Amala, but "talking a lot" is a feminine trait, not a masculine one), ready to take responsibility for his failures, ambitious in the sense of forever working to improve himself, devoted to friends and family... this is masculinity. Toxic masculinity is any masculine behavior that strays from this pattern. So much misogyny, so much violence in this world, for example, is the result of men who aren't confident -- they turn to violence as a way of feeling powerful and important because they can't achieve in the world and feel masculine in that more "natural" way.
Doesn’t matter. Men don't have to conforme to what you or society wants. Its people like you are exactly why they've been toxic throughout history. Neither do women
I noticed Amala and Talor really struggled with why someone wouldn't let go of what they believe and just make other arguments that others could agree with, but the thing is, when you find the truth and know what the truth is, you don't need to keep searching, and you are definitely not going to shy away from sharing truth with others because speaking the truth matters. Share the truth even if someone chooses not to believe it. Share the truth still.
Congratulations, Scott. Enjoy your new baby girl. From someone who became an uncle at the age of 10, I enjoyed taking care of my niece. I pretty much became her babysitter who spent hours on end of caring for her. Now she lives in Australia with her new 10 day old son. Why am I saying this? It is because I want to impart that time flies really, really fast. Enjoy every moment with your baby girl. Babies are so precious. Enjoy being a dad.
As a gay man, I'm definitely attracted to more masculine guys, because I am more sensitive, shy, introverted or so to say I'm not a masculine guy, so in a partner I will always look for a more masculine guy, I'm not saying that sensitive guys can't be masculine but I've always been more submissive so naturally I'd look for an assertive guy, because men being masculine is very attractive to me.
I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A RESPECTFUL CONVERSATION IN THE REPLIES ON THIS! IM ALWAYS OPEN TO DIFFERING EXPERIENCES AND OPINIONS AS LONG AS WE KEEP IT KIND! I am going to have to disagree with Amala in regards to her commentary about male sexual assault. I think there is a conversation to be had about men not being taken seriously, HOWEVER, from my experience it’s almost exclusively been at the hands of other men saying he’s lucky. That’s something that needs to be corrected however women should not bare the blame of something that has nothing to do with them. Especially when biologically it is much harder to forcefully rape a man as a woman. Which is unarguably more traumatizing. That’s probably why it’s taken more seriously not only because it causes much more damage physically but also mentally due to the distress of being forced into sexual contact in which you experience pain. That’s usually not the case for men. Also the Johnny Depp example was just not true. Almost everyone both famous or not jumped to defend Depp. Even during the trial people were making fun of Herd. I would also argue that men jump to any examples of female perpetrators rather than women actively searching for male perpetrators. There just so happens to be more examples of male on female crime. And if it appears to be sought after that should say something about the rates in which we see women being victimized by men. Once again I’m completely open to having friendly conversation on this and I have Amala to thank for that! 🫶
1:21:22 yes!! Just showing these 2 vice videos back to back, one can see that the women there got more emotional/laughing maniacally/getting personally offended/... While the men here have kept it pretty respectful and not personal (-not getting personally offended by what the others said).
Yes for sure this is way more calm than the feminist panel and I was waiting for them to get into a huge argument and be making fun of each other like the women were and it literally was perfectly fine.
19:53 actually i am guilty of that, now i realize that, many years ago, back on 2004/2005 i was with friends on a shopping mall and we saw some guy very well groomed without any hint of hair on him, i commented that it was not a manly thing to do, and a male friend of mine said he also did that and that made me realize that we have some sort of bias to whom we are attracted to
Anyone can be toxic there's so many toxic humans on this Earth male and female! Being masculine isn't toxic and being feminine isn't toxic! What the hell is wrong with people?🤦
If both men and women can be masculine that means that both men and women can possess toxic masculinity the same way that both men and women can possess toxic feminity. Toxic masculinity can not only apply to men if both men and women can be masculine.
@@brentthompson1607 I agree! what about toxic femininity? If masculinity toxic, so is femininity: Whining, crying, being pathetic, over emotional etc. I think people just need to get a grip and just be themselves. And just accept not being an a hole!
@@brentthompson1607 he meant masculinity in itself is not toxic just like femininity in itself is not toxic. Masculinity is a trait, not a behavior; know the difference. "Toxic masculinity" is a made-up term created by misandrist feminists and is used by people who don't know any better.
I grew up in the south. No one ever told me I need to be a certain man or why but tv shows did and the sexy men on tv… I wanted to be liked like them but I didn’t know how. I didn’t want to go to the gym or sleep with many women… so I was called gay. I thought I was gay because I was being called gay at age 13. I am not gay and i don’t like me but if everyone calls me that… maybe I am or should be. It didn’t work. I didn’t want to like men, I like women. It wasn’t until I moved to China at 18 for college did my toxic masculinity culture disappear shame slowly year after year. I was told I wasn’t a man in China unless I smoked, drank, and slept with women. I didn’t want to do those things like they did. I was a Christian and wanted to honor them, I wanted to honor a wife one day. So, God taught me through my experiences that I am a man of God and he is where I learn to be a man. It’s really that simple. The moral of the story is: comparison and cultures will always be the poison of what masculinity is but only God truly show me what a man is because he created man AND woman. There is a different and I am grateful to be a man of God and not of my culture. “According to the Bible and by the example of Christ, masculinity is humble leadership. It is sacrificial love and incredible meekness. Our society needs revitalized masculinity. We need masculinity that will treat women with honor, prize honesty and fight for the sake of the vulnerable. Rather than removing all boundaries for masculinity or clinging to a toxic version of it, biblical masculinity is rooted in the dedicated imitation of Christ. “
It makes sense if I actually think about it. Someone who doesn’t believe in the concept of gender. It’s a different take from other people on the panel (which is the whole point) people with different views finding common ground and agreeing to disagree
Whos murdering all these women on their first date? Police should maybe look into this if there are serial killers doing this?? Strawman statements about straw men for straw men
Generally when it comes to romantic relationships men need to feel respected and appreciated. Women need to feel cared for and secure (both need to feel loved). Masculine and feminine are manifestations of those respective desires. This is why it's considered masculine for men to pay the bill at dinner and feminine for women to expect that. Even if the woman has a decent job and is capable of paying half. This dynamic is an innate characteristic for both sexes and is as old as human existence. There are exceptions to every rule but no amount of social engineering will overide the fact that this is how the majority of men and women are.
Just a small thought… I find it so sad and ironic that “trans women are women” is a valid statement to so many who also tell less-traditionally masculine men “you aren’t a real man.”
Interesting I mean it’s often we find hypocrisy in their argument.
I find the opposite actually.. The ones who tell feminine men "you aren't a real man" and call them a "little bitch" or "a pussy" are typically the same people who *DON'T* believe that trans women are women. I have yet to see the opposite if I'm being honest here.
@@azayzelderegis1655 it’s majorily feminists on the internet who want to “support” trans people and are anti-men or will spread this rhetoric that it’s okay for men to be feminine but deep down that’s now how they feel.
AKA The 'hypocrisy of the Narcissist'.
Narcissists (the 'Woke') don't have any Self-Awareness, and directly 'Project' their own mindset and behavior instead (ie Racism, Fascism, Sexism, etc).
It also enables the Narcissist to Deflect from Reality...as Narcs do.
You'll see ALL elements which make up the Narcissist Left, do this.
From BLM to Islam to the Female Narcissist to the Transgender Narcissist.
It's 'Narcissist Projection'...a form of gaslighting abuse.
Watch closely.
'Woke' Covert Narcissists tend to always describe themselves. 'Projection' is a primary trait of Narcissism.
they want us to have no gender… because that’s what the devil wants
Ouch! Poor cowboy, you guys ripped his what is a man answer right off the bat! It's not his fault he knows exactly what HE thinks a man is. It's not his fault he is on a different level than these other guys. It's just his answer. I mean, at least he gave one!
His answer, aptly, was extremely manly! The expectation nowadays is that you're in crisis, struggling to find yourself, overcoming trauma and toxicity and finding a new way of being beyond the evil 'patriarchy'. That is what gets applause. Men are basically supposed to hate themselves as they are and work on being 'better'. He totally flew in the face to today's orthodoxy.
Exactly! The thing about this question of what is masculinity is that it’s changed so much. Before w what gender roles which made a distinction between women and men. Back then masculinity was being the one out getting money and providing for your family. You were the protector and the one who was strong while women were the opposite so it was easier to define what is masculine and what is feminine. Of course there are exceptions to this, there are women who have to take on more masculine traits because of their environment. This isn’t a perfect world so those idea of masculinity will shift and change if you don’t have something grounding it like faith. These things are very dependent on how you grow up and your environment. Although men are the ones who are supposed to provide (in my opinion as a Christian) and women are the ones who are able to sit back and let their husband lead because he loves her and she trusts him. It doesn’t mean in other situations the woman will be the one who has to provide for her family because the man didn’t do his job and instead left her to do that on her own. When you aren’t grounded in something masculinity and femininity can be whatever you want.
@@aranisles8292 yes.. also white guilt. All this toxic masculinity debate seems to keep white men at the centre because they hate themselves and others too because society and politics influences people to believe they are racist as well. Crazy times.
Like fr! He has structure and system of beliefs, that’s awesome to me.
Cowboy is100% on point 💪🏾💋
Y'all bashing on the Christian guy with 5 points but he's not wrong. If the nonbinary guy is allowed to come with all his lingo the Christian guy can come with his. He's there to provide his point of view and it's a really solid point within Christianity. Yes, women can be leaders and can provide for their families and can show sacrificial love, but that is what the Bible specifically tells men they are supposed to do. Men are called to love their wives as Jesus loved the Church, which is he laid down his life and sacrificed everything for her.
Even if you remove the aspect of divine intervention, the Biblical perspective is still time-tested true for thousands of years of human history.
I agree with this totally...
So if someone isn't religious then they're not masculine?
The guy in the dress speaks nonsense too so don't prop your argument up on his shoulders.
I agree. You can just change “biblical” to “biological”. I am not even really Christian, but I believe the biblical principles for “gender” is exactly how we are biologically wired, MOST of the time. Of course their are outliers, but by in large it applies.
@@jonathandevereaux298 no? They were asked what it means to them. He's allowed to have his own view of what he views masculinity to be. People are allowed to have opinions and it doesn't mean they are automatically bashing or hating people who don't fit into that.
Cowboy is not losing me! He IS defining what masculinity means to him...he is upholding a vision and morality that many people understand and agree with. His voice is relevant even if nobody in the room can relate to it.
Absolutely!!!!
Sounds like he's preaching to me. He talks about following god more than anything else, but ok
@@AdidTurreno because to him God shows him what a man should do to fulfill the role of ‘man’ or husband/father. You don’t have to agree, but a large portion of the U.S population are religious
@Andrei Tudor To people who center their lives on following God ( not only christians) this is their moral foundation...their lived experience as it were, so why is it such a barrier to people to listen to? Seems to me that his viewpoint may be just as illuminating to people listening as any of the others shared in this discussion.
@@caliconservative20 Sure, but only for people who already believe in god. If he talked about the themes and values and morals he wants people to follow without saying "god said it so it must be so" more people might be able to resonate with him who aren't christian.
If you’re non binary why are you on a panel of men talking about masculinity
Right?! They should’ve brought buck angel
Because a debate means we need different opinions from people who will challenge the other side's beliefs, so I think they did a good job with the discussion
That person was the worst person on that panel. Always blamed men when valid points were brought up, yet, offered no solutions.
@@anyadarlingg He really didn't have any beliefs. He was just a contrarian for the sake of being combative. Even the other gay gentleman had to put him in his place which was awesome.
Man, my first thought. Their main goal seemed to be to intrude on the space and be combative and non-productive. Everyone else seemed to have an approach of good faith and to develop a point.
The irony is the only one on the panel who exhibited behaviours that I’d describe as “toxic” was literally the one that doesn’t even identify as a man or masculine. Griffin was rude, condescending, arrogant and dismissive and was the only one to actually attack any other person on the panel rather than dealing with the ideas being put forward. The most feminine dude was the most toxic.. I think there’s something to that.
There is a thing where the more testosterone the guy has, the more calm the guy is. While a lack of it creates more aggression to compensate.
I’d argue the gay guy in the black shirt was the most toxic by far, he was snarky, loud and rude. The non binary person seemed pretty chill
He exemplifies stereotypes of womanhood like a costume. No woman I know acts like this. I've never known catty women like the other vice video either. It's so weird
That’s because Griffins ideology preaches “we are right about everything, it’s impossible for us to be wrong because we know everything about everything”. Griffin is insecure and weak, so not surprising he cut everyone else down
Chaos and order? Maybe Peterson is on to the feminine and masculine? We all still need chaos to progress and push but it CAN be chaotic…
I had a guy argue with me that his body con dress and makeup was masculine. I was like, wear what you want, but do not try to convince me that you’re masculine
You can be a masculine man who wears feminine things but being masculine doesn’t make the clothes masculine too.
The action of wearing whatever you want and holding your ground even when people give you shit for it is pretty masculine, but the clothes themselves are definitely not masculine.
@@SonOfABitch777 so if women wear what they want and don't care what others think they're being masculine? You are speaking nonsense.
@@jonathandevereaux298 If they're wearing masculine clothes, then yes. We usually call them tomboys though.
@@notmyrealname8282 It's basically just a figure hugging tight dress, that's meant to accentuate your curves. I don't know what curves a man hopes to accentuate by wearing one, but still......
A failure of understanding the basics here: Just because a trait is attributed to females, doesn't exclude it from being a masculine trait. Both men and women nurture for example, but they do it in different ways that provide balance to a child. - You need to avoid falling into the trap of binary or exclusionary thinking.
That's exactly what I was thinking at rhe beginning. My wife is one of the strongest people I know, which I would consider a masculine trait, but that doesn't make her manly. I'm caring, compassionate, and affectionate to my wife and my two daughters, but that doesn't make me womanly. Her shortsighted view that if something is masculine that a woman can't possess that that trait is absurd
Exactly!
Thank you!
Thank God for this comment I see this all the time with young people and why I do not like listening. The sort of people who believe themselves to be intelligent but still think things are black and white that aren’t is overwhelming.
I always think as Socrates said “the more that I learn the more I realize that I know nothing”
I think Amala os more so doing that out of necessity. Like no one is defining so let’s just define it first before we move on and dissect it? Find what is just for men and men only and what for women and women only (that can always not be adhered to but th here IS consequences to actions and you must deal with the fall out.
God I miss the good old days of the 80s and 90s when men were men and women were women and the definition of what is a woman (an adult human female)and what is a man (an adult human male) was crystal clear. I hate to say it but I think that the feminist movement has actually emasculated men with everyone throwing out toxic masculinity so badly that men don't even know what a man should be anymore. I get so tired of seeing men wearing make up, jewelry and women's clothes with facial or body hair. I have respect for transgender men/women that suffer from gender dysphoria but the non binary group are just delusional or mentally ill. Human's aren't non binary and gender has never been and never will be a social construct John Money's own John/Joan case that he hoped would back his gender theory proved the opposite that it doesn't matter how you raise a child nature always wins. Sorry I am out I should have known the non binary man would go there.
Grew up in the 90s... Gender confusion was barely a thing. I don't understand this..
I saw a tiktok that stores are running out of tampons, because there are so many pussies now
My mom and stepdad moved to California and my stepdad use to present as a very generic male. Now he dresses like a woman. Wears makeup, women’s jewelry, and all that. My mom says it’s just the culture out in California but it’s very hard to accept here in Florida. I’m sorry but Gender is biological. Male, man, boy are humans with male reproductive organs (testicles, sperm, p***s) necessary to fertilizing the egg of a female. Female, woman, girl are humans with reproductive organs that are capable at bearing children (uterus, ovaries, eggs). And just because some people aren’t capable of these roles doesn’t mean that they are some other gender. No they have those parts they just don’t function to the standard. People use infertility or sterile as means to tear down this structure. But infertile women still have the organs associated with biological females.
I too miss the good old days where everyone agreed that facts were concrete without question rather than now where there are delusional people that say that a fact is fluid and subjective according to how they feel.
I find it exhausting and a tad insane that someone (Matt Walsh) had to make a whole movie about what a woman is.
I have been with my husband 7 years. I have seen him cry 3 times. He's seen me cry probably 3 times a week average. I honestly NEED his emotional stability to live properly. When he's too rigid, my intuition and feelings come in handy to him. He sat down 2 nights ago and told me how time has shown him that my intuition has been right. I told him how his reasoning has helped me analyze certain situations. We are built to compliment each other in so many ways. We are 2 pieces of a puzzle.
Wow!!! That's why marriage is so important. You complement one another and you both strengthen one another in areas where one may need support and you both communicate with one another. This is beautiful. ❤
Honestly this is so beautiful
Literally commented on there how respectfully civil the host and guests were compared to the recent feminism video Vice had. One person told me I was upholding the patriarchy as men are taught to hide their emotions and they become scared when confronted with people being emotional. Like no, the main problem most people had with that video was just a bunch of rude jerks laughing & yelling over one another as they tried to talk.
Emotional men tend to be violent men… this is why we learn to control our emotions. It’s that simple. I don’t know why people want to glorify drama. Sober minded logical and civil. That is how men ideally communicate regardless of feelings.
also the moderator is doing a wonderful job here in giving chances to everyone to speak their mind and enganging more with the panel. I feel like the moderator in the feminism panel didn't do enough "moderating"
@@kevinlucas9905 emotional anything tend to be violent. it just hurts more when it's a man.
edit: and leaves more traces
Did you see the feminist panel before the last one you're referring to? Those women were respectful and had good conversations. The panel you speak of was just a mess. Very diabolical personalities
@@nofearonlylove21 I was talking about the more recent femnist panel from two weeks ago being a bit of a trainwreck, the one from 3 years ago though yes was a lot better.
Edit: I’m just comparing this discussion to the more recent Femnist discussion because there closer in time frame with one happening directly after the other.
At least the guy with his 5 points had the balls to try and define masculinity.
He is 100% on point💪🏾💋
his definition is on the same level as the woke left. doesn't actually mean anything
I think Amala took an extremely liberal point of view on the masculinity. Both hosts were extremely dismissive of Kacey’s point, yet him and Christian were the only ones who actually said anything with their answer on what is masculinity.
It was kind of annoying how she kept dismissing his point of view because they would not relate to a Christian point of view… what about a “non binary” point of view? How can anyone else relate to that? wasn’t the point of this to bring different view points together?
It’s not a “liberal take” to say that it’s not fair to attribute masculinity as only being associated with someone’s relationship with God simply because not everyone believes in him. It’s only fair to look at the biological and psychological aspects of it and how that translates into society. What they said were facts. 🤷
@@lolam4066 Thank you!!! Exactly!!!
@@lilmupp875 yeah but it’s about what HIS opinion is about what masculinity truly is. He’s going to add his faith into it that doesn’t mean that’s everyone definition of it but at least he gave a definition set in stone rather than not giving a definition at all.
Yes! Thank you.
I love how the cowboy articulated himself in the opening. Griffin calls himself non-binary which doesn't even exist, but the cowboy shares his beliefs and you guys talk down about him for it? Why? Everything he said was spot on. Recognizing yourself as a creation made by a Creator is a good first step to defining any part of the human experience, especially masculinity. Do you really think the man in the pretty dress has a more grounded sense of self than the man who is Godly?
Do better.
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I was surprised that they compared him to a child during show and tell. This gentleman was giving his prepared thoughts on what he felt defined masculinity. Again, thanks for your perspective on that moment. :)
I’m sure he knows about grandma’s wooden spoon. Besides a symbol of authority it doubles as a few other things. But, basically to train your mind. Almost like the Pavlov’s dog experiment. You see her with that spoon you either expect food or to be reprimanded🤣
Not everyone is Christian, and many non believers have a sense of self. It’s not a pissing contest of who’s a better human being. So I don’t agree that someone who’s self proclaimed “godly” is always a good person solely for being a Christian.
@@joshuacavazos8869 I didn't say anything about anyone being a good person or better human. Non-believers may have a sense of self, but as Christians, we know that they cannot truly know who they are until they acknowledge who created them. That's our belief. And, regardless of religious beliefs, a man who thinks he doesn't have a human gender at all clearly does not know who he is.
I’m confused as to why they were mad about the definitions given for masculinity by saying “women can do that too”
Yes women can do them, but that would still be masculine. She even admits that she has masculine traits, but still didn’t recognize that they were the definitions given by the panel? Peculiar…
There were a few times I was confused about that. Seemed to me like people were mixing up “masculinity” (personality), “being male” (biology), and “male gender roles” (social/action).
That doesn’t make sense though? How is a woman having a job for example and providing for herself in anyway like a man?
@@Matthew-sl8dx it's like saying a man changing diapers makes him a woman.
exactly. Masculinity and femininity don't describe what's exclusive to one sex but more what's more typical in men and women respectively.
My thoughts exactly. There is no such thing as a definition of masculinity that cannot be attributed to some women as well. It's frustrating to watch her look for the impossible.
I want to have a beer with cowboy hat and talk about masculinity, cause I trust him.
Honestly, that was what I kept going back to….who pays $150 first date?!? And if you can’t afford it, why are you doing it?!?!
Simpus Maximus must've been expecting her to move in the same night and start paying bills or something. Either that or he just can't plan more than 12 hours ahead.
My thoughts were he can afford it, but it almost feels like the effort is pointless since he keeps getting rejected. Also I have heard many women (not friends of mine) say they will go out on dates with guys to get free meals, drinks, have a good time, etc. Even if they may not be romantically interested in the guy. Personally I think he needs to pick cheaper dates ideas, and maybe stop using dating apps if he is doing so, cuz a lot of women just go on there to pass free time and gain validation, and not take it very seriously 🤷 it's sad
@@anyadarlingg whether consciously or not, many men think they need to purchase a woman. Society encourages the idea that women are objects, emotionally unstable ones, that need to be placated. This can be seen with expressions like "happy wife, happy life" as if the man must constantly bend the knee. Guy just needs more self respect and to date someone his equal so he won't feel the need to castrate himself.
He's either going to a bar or a very fancy restaurant. Either way if he has regret afterwards, he either can't afford these places or has silly expectations. I suspect if they slept with him he wouldn't have regret, which is probably his first mistake. If he is looking for a actual partner he should start that relationship off on an honest note. The type of girl that won't look at his badly for not spending 150 bucks on her is the likely the type he may have success with.
It would weird me out if a man spent a $150 on a first date or even a 3rd date unless he had the right attitude to go with it. The fact that this guy over spent and he’s complaining about something he chose to do because it didn’t achieve his desired results shows he’s most likely one of those men that hover and too eager to please. A think the term is beta male.
My boyfriend grew up a sensitive momma's boy who was called a sissy by his dad constantly. He was told he wasn't a real man because he didn't play sports or do anything "manly." He's not feminine by any means, he's just more in touch with his emotions but is man enough for me. Full beard, tech nerd, plays DnD, and loves action movies. He's more masculine than that "they" on the panel by a long shot.
Your husband sounds fun! I think he’d get along with my husband:)
why tf are u attacking a non binary person that doesn't even know you? weirdo
Your boyfriend sounds like a real catch! ❤ I often wonder if the reason why there's been such an increase in gender non conforming people is because they've heard so many messages stating that a male who acts too feminine is not a "real man", and a female who acts too masculine is not a " desirable woman". And now people are scratching their heads wondering why so many people have given into that criticism and are labeling themselves as non binary or trans. Just a theory. I could be totally wrong!
If that's the kind of man you want, that's cool. Seriously, but if he gets picked on while in a sphere of dudes that are highly testosterone filled he won't take it well. Same goes the other way, the extremes are just that way. This episode of Jubilee was not fair at all to me. Combined you may have the average guy but none of them showed what an average man would be and left out other nuances
You don’t need to put down Griffin to uplift your man
A masculine man has strength. He is strong in his mind, body and soul. He does not complain, whinge and bitch about every little thing.
I think you got it.
Now what's a feminine woman?
Facts. @Will4300
@@lucienberl Delicate, thoughtful, dependent, reserved, caring, cautious, loving, and subservient are some words that come to my mind.
Why should a woman be subservient or cautious?
@@AnonymousC-lm6tc I don’t think they “should”, but generally, women tend to have those tendencies.
People.. ALL THESE MEN, are ALL too scared to be honest with what they really think.. other than Cowboy Man.
Fathers are the MOST IMPORTANT ROLES in a child’s life. The #1 role
The same sex parent will be the biggest influence on them and the other parent will be who their self worth or lack there of is attributed to. A father to a daughter is the one who shows her how she should be treated with how important she is to him. Also she watches how he treats her mom.
Tell that to every person who was raised with just a mother and turned out fine
All facts my guy
🙏🕊
@@Matthew-sl8dx Those are very few people.
I was a single Dad, she left us when my son was 8months old. Masculinity changes after a child is born. Strength, honor, loyalty, compassion and love. I worked a blue collar job, read a book to my son every night before he went to bed, cooked every night. Could go on for paragraphs. Long story short my son is a masculine MAN, totally proud. Glad I found your channel
Amala, I think you are overlooking the unrealistic standards that men have to meet in modern dating. Which is shocking because you are fully aware of how much woke culture and feminism has taken over modern day women… so who do you think are on these dating apps? As a woman who is bisexual, it is a hell of a lot harder to try to date a woman than it is to date a man. They literally require so much for no reason/nothing in return. It’s hard to even have a conversation with a woman now a days. Do you know how many women’s bios name “food” as an interest or activity… like thanks for letting me know you’re human I guess? The things that modern women in the dating pool are asking for are NOT basic things. They’re not asking for men to walk on the outside of the curb for them lolll they literally don’t even care about that anymore. How modest of you.
I have recently had a conversation with a non binary person (a biological guy) and I was trying to get an answer about what it means to be masculine form him for about 2 hours. He kept giving me answers along the line of “well, generally speaking…” or “in American culture…” and at some point I told him directly to stop dodging the question and tell me what masculinity means to him specifically. And he replied that it’s really hard to generalize and explain. After that I asked how he can be neither a man nor a woman if he can’t identify either of those and received an answer (next day) that we should no longer debate about issues we’re not fully educated on :(
It sounds as living in a vacuum without knowing who you are, which seems horrible to me.
Honestly. Non Binary is just about Having no gendered expectations.
The whole gender debate is about side stepping responsibilities that come with your sex. Most people would fall under 'non-binary'
Okay but how do they expect to become educated on topics if they won't pursue the conversation after being unable to produce an answer? Not producing an answer is the literal reason and motivation research and further education.
@@steph6109 agreed
Insane 🤷🏿
I guarantee you when women say they want a man that's emotionally available, they mean a man that's a great listener. Us men like to think through our problems and figure out a solution, often solo. Women like to air out their problems by telling someone about it. Usually their boyfriend or husband.
Summed up, as guys, listen to your girlfriend/wife. Be attentive, but DO NOT offer a solution unless she explicitly asks for help in that regard. This is just one of the major differences between men and women.
Masculinity is just traits associated with the plurality of men. These would be positive attitudes towards sex, emotional stability (not meaning less emotions, but less variance in emotional state), and disagreeableness. I would also personally want to add an increased respect for meritocracy and hierarchy. Men in general respect men who have proven themselves even if they are generally disagreeable.
This is by far the best comment to describe the difference. One comment was like "masculine is logical, and feminine is emotional." Hahaha. Like have they never met a man? Maybe they were one idk.
Yeah. I felt this discussion addressed some good things but didn't address the 'fundamental points' of masculinity beyond the gender stereotypes which we love so much. Having a discussion about how accessible being a woman is would have been helpful or how you can build masculinity based on an idea of hierarchy and accomplishments with a discussion on how this isn't exclusive of 'women' but can explain why the classes exist in the first placeseparations
@@DelphineTheWorstBladeEver Right. A way better statement is 'Men respect hierarchy and there is a relative way for ascertaining when one man is more accomplished than another as reference through dating.' Hell, I recall when the asian guy started talking about being in the hole financially how Hasan referenced 'you need to do better. you need to be more attractive.' I feel that atleast references to the fundamental aspects of what makes masculinity.
I agree with your comment and how these traits are found conventionally in men really comes down to the biological differences between sexes. Due to differences in hormones; testosterone behavioural characteristics include increased aggression, dominance, impulsiveness, increased libido, social anxiety and neuroticism. This doesn’t include the physical differences testosterone provides such as increased muscle mass, bone mass, and fat distribution. Through hundreds of thousands of years we have evolved and used these biological traits as an advantage to our society and success (debatable), but mainly survival as a race.
When you speak of respecting other men, it comes from the biological need to be dominant and being able to appreciate competition. It was the way we survived for 250,000 years.
Men and women can have respect for their peers. So it doesn’t really speak to the core idea of masculinity in itself. It’s a byproduct of masculinity which is biological, can be measured and is not subjective.
@@rylan182 i mean, we disagree but you may be over essenntializing men a tad. There are plenty of societies in which what you described stands true but people doing the things dont have penises. What you described creates a natural distribution. What we have in the West as we understand it arose because of its cirumstances in relation to the aspects.
I think this is the first time I've found myself pushing back against Amalas' opinions a bit. Also, it is a bit hypocritical to be like, "Don't pay for $150 date (which I agree), but then bring up your bf taking you on a memorable, expensive first date, lol. Also, since when are women ok with paying half for a date? Lol not where I am
I too found myself correcting her ignorance on the differences of men and women, this was obviously a place where she still retains some of her prior woke feminist beliefs. Also too, her male counterpart showed some emasculate thoughts and behavior, a product of modern society as it weakens men and destroys family units.
This was also my first time disagreeing with some of her points, especially at the beginning. There are still many things we all agree on, so I’m trying to hold on to that.
The half bill thing is more common in college type situations where it's understood not everyone has the money to pay for two people's meals potentially over and over if the date doesn't pan out. My husband paid for our movie tickets on our first date and I paid for dessert after.
I guess it's also worth noting that I grew up with financial stress so a $150 first date would've freaked me out and made me think: "This idiot doesn't know how to manage money if he's just throwing it away on a first date!" but this combined with a more common concern that I think other women have which is: "I can't let someone spend this much money on me as it creates an obligation and now I don't know if I like him or if I just feel guilty for not just ordering a salad cause I'm *hungry*".
If you’re asking her out the ball is in your court. That basically means be the/a man and take charge. You want her. Not the other way around. If she doesn’t like it then obviously you gotta move on. But, clearly as the guy you’re attempting to impress her😂
@The 2nd Coming And if she is asking you out, then she pays? Lol pretty sure it doesn't work that way for the most part.
As always when you get a bunch of guys to come together to talk about masculinity the conversation is civil, humorous, and wholesome. Why did the women fail to have a conversation like this?
Since they bought into feminism as a good idea, which is the biggest lie ever sold to them.
Women aren't held accountable in the ways that men are
@@whokilledjr3719 The Halo Effect.
Women are more emotional than men. Men are more analytical.
Because when males have conflict and the argument goes too far, violence is on the table, whereas females typically use social and reputational aggression. Females typically dont engage in physical violence, so they use language and social manipulation.
I am crying as I am typing this out, they are tears of sorrow and joy I have been struggling for years and years about feeling so masculine all the time. I have always felt so angry and I knew I wasn't supposed to. I was a single parent for years and raised myself. I have always taken on these masculine traits. I met my husband and he is not traditionally masculine all the time. He is submissive in a lot of ways. I love that about him. He doesn't love that about him, just like I don't love my masculine traits. I felt we all had to be in boxes. This episode is the best episode of any podcast I have ever seen. You have saved our marriage and saved our family from being a broken home. I have always heard the term masculine woman or feminine man and never really understood it till I heard y'all talking about this. I see now that my anger stems from the fact that I don't accept myself as a woman. I am still a woman even though I am not very feminine all the time. My husband is a man even though he isn't masculine all the time.
Wait what is masculine?
Yes. You are a woman. No matter what your personality or traits u are deserving of seeing yourself as a woman and liking yourself. Hugs. Your husband is a great and respectable man, this is not dependent on on his masculinity.
Minus Griffin, this conversation was so much more productive than the feminist one
Griffin derailed everything. He had zero stake in the issue and therefore didn't belong there. It's good to know that perspective exists, though. He lets us know where things might be heading.
Griffin wants it all, to speak for men and women. He has no idea how to be a masculine man or a woman, why is he there?
@@aranisles8292 you guys are just bigots. Even Amala agreed he brought meaningful points
i’m a single mom, hearing all this makes me want to go find my son a father but it’s hard to date as a single mom! not to mention it’s hard to find a person with similar morals when it comes to raising a child.
Yeah it's very hard for a single mother to find someone, especially a young woman. But keep looking. I took on a single mother and raised her child as my own. We are out there, keep looking and don't give up hope.
@@GreenFalcon926 thank you that’s nice to hear :))
You don’t need a man to raise your child with good morals. You’re doing great the way you are and don’t need to “find a man” quickly to help raise ur child! Don’t listen to these people
@@Matthew-sl8dx thank you!
Lol, while having a father in the home is important, don't sacrifice quality. It does seem way harder now than ever to find a guy with that balance these days.
Masculinity is simple. It's about being physically and mentally tough. Going after what you want despite fears. Doing what needs to be done as well. Being a leader.
Not exactly. It’s about provide and protecting your family or anyone needing protection.
I disagree. Like Amala said, women can be physically and mentally tough, they can be ambitious despite fears, do what needs to be done, and be leaders. It's the way one does this that makes it masculine or feminine. For example, doing a job such as construction, I would consoder more masculine, and a job such as therapy more feminine. This is because men tend to be more physcially stronger, while women tend to be more empathetic and to understamd relationships and people better. Either way, a man and a woman both have the ability to provide, and they both can (it doesn't mean they often do) do it in a feminine or masculine way. Women can, if they are strong, work in construction and men can, if they can understand people well enough, work as therapists. And examples like this apply to all the other attributes.
@@LDaw_96 lol all by products of what OP said
@Andrei Tudor , men and women contain both masculine and feminine energy. Think of it as a YinYang symbol.☯️ Men contain mostly masculine energy while women contain mostly feminine. The balance of energies within us can be changed based on our behavior and actions, but our core energy is always dominant. I'll omit the details as I could write an essay on it if I kept going lol.
Sounds like a Bruce Willis character. Or a very me-first attitude
As a Christian, I 100% agree with everything the Christian guy said, and I find it really absurd that you guys just dismiss every word out of his mouth by saying he should stop talking about religion because other people won't agree...
Everything he's saying is true. 100%. So whether or not you want to listen or reject it because you reject religion, is on you, not him. He should be able to speak truth clearly, as he is doing, and it's up to everyone else to decide if they want to accept that or not.
The fact of the matter is, these gender roles and gender differences WERE established by God. That's true whether you believe it or not. So to say this guy should just not say that or not get into the fact that God is involved in this conversation, is really ridiculous. We are talking about how men and women were created to be... of course God is an important part of that conversation.
If you want to leave God out of it, that's your choice, but I think people who leave God out of the conversation are missing a massive piece of the puzzle and will never be able to come to a full, complete understanding of what the final puzzle is supposed to look like. This guy's got all the pieces, and he's figured it out. You should listen to him, instead of automatically having a negative opinion of what he has to say because he's talking about God. Kinda sad, especially, to see a Christian man on your show having the same view that this guy should stop talking about God so much...
I used to think like Taylor(?). But then I realized that I'm just trying to take God out of the conversation, to appeal to people who don't believe in Him, and that's not okay as a Christian. God is a part of the conversation, and I will not shy away from speaking about him because "people won't take me seriously." If people don't take me seriously because they don't want to face the reality that God exists and that they are morally responsible to follow Him, then that's their issue, not mine.
I agree!!
I agree
I COMPLETELY agree with you. You cant define these roles without God. I think they are just saying there is a better way to go about it. They are non believers, so you cant just say "Beleive in God. Have a Biblical worldview." They need to be evangelized in some sense. I think for these conversation we can bring up Christianity but we also need to bring up things that are undeniably true (even for non-believers) this will help cement our arguments even more.
Totally I agree! I don't like how Amala keeps dismissing his points just because he's a Christian.
As a non believer. If you say the path to being masculine or the path to anything really only happens through your mythology. I’m probably not listening to anything you say past that point because you’re trying to push me towards your mythology.
A good friend of mine is a priest. You want to know one thing he’s never done when I’ve asked him for advice on a topic. Say that I needed to go to church or accept god. Now he has directed me to the Bible to read one of the stories to see if that would help me see my problem from a different perspective.
But when you frame your life in a “the only way to live is if you follow the same path I am” way. You’re probably an asshole and I’m not going to listen. I feel the same when an atheist says a moral person can’t be religious, or when a religious person says the same. You’re showing that you don’t have the capacity to see anything outside your box.
You have to be able to define something before you can re-define it. Problem is there are those that are trying to re-define things without even knowing what the definition is.
Then how did the first definition of things come to be? Fell from the sky?
@@jonathandevereaux298 it was defined the first time. Is that real question?
Masculine traits are not only exclusive to men but being strong both mentally and physically for your family and your community. It is not that women can’t be but that men are primarily that.
As a GenX individual, these conversations are very interesting. Many of my generation are seeing this decade through our children's eyes & the 1st generation that had tech/digital devices to enter the home and many of us were latchkey kids (free range kids). Each generation wants to fix the problems they thought they saw while growing up (hence the helicopter parenting). I am the generation who got married young (21), had kids young (25), but the 1st generation where both the husband & wife went to college. I define masculinity as having traits that appear as strength (muscular & less emotionally based), logic oriented, interested in tactile/visible things, desire to fix things, and more physical than communicative. Where as feminine traits are basically the Ying to the masculine Yang... nurturing, desire to make things, more emotion based, and more interested in personal relationships than things. I see these traits in my children and the children I teach as well.
"Men are logic" lol
Yes I agree, and could not have said it any better myself. Well done mate.
Lol I like the "free range kids"term. I don't believe I've heard it before..latch key kids was the term for us that I'm familiar with. But "free range" is a perfect tho in describing what we were as kids. I don't know how old you are, but I'm 41, and we pretty much DID have free range to kinda do what we wanted. We rode our bikes to school..when we got home our parents were still at work, so we usually let ourselves in, and make ourselves a sandwich, maybe do a few quick things our parents wanted us to do when we got home, maybe or maybe do homework, then it was back on the bike and off to go meet up with friends for a bit. We had free run of the neighborhood, and as long as we were back home by dinner, or at least before dark, Mom and Dad didn't worry too much about it. We were probably the last generation to have that kind of freedom to be honest. I don't know when things began to change, but it does kinda seem like it was around the time technology really began to take off, and the internet and video games started become more and more prevalent. I don't know about you, but I wasn't allowed to hang around the house on the computer, or watching TV and playing video games all day. Mom would come in and turn the TV off and say, "Nope! You're not going to sit and watch TV all day. It's Saturday...go outside and find something to do." It just so strange to me how dependent and reliant that kids are on technology, and how they are perfectly fine with sitting inside all day. It's weird not to see kids on their bikes..or pass by one open field after another and not seeing a football or baseball game going on..or groups of kids hanging out and interacting with each other at the places that I hung out with my buddies as a kid, and my older brothers hung out at, and so on. It all changed when technology changed. Free range kids are extinct now, and it's kinda sad.
Logic is gender neutral. However masculinity is more action oriented whilst femininity is more passive and solution oriented.
@Chrystiana W ik it makes sense to an extent, but for some reason hearing people say "Men are leaders, women are more passive" kinda gives me an icky feeling. I'm in the air force and have met a large amount of inspiring, mentally tough women. And to me I guess I don't think of them as "masculine," just "strong women." I personally have a hard time defining masculine and feminine, but mostly I use it to describe outter appearancds/demeanor. Like it's just a positive trait in general (gender neutral) to be strong (not saying guys and girls are equally strong, but just cuz a girl is "strong" doesn't make her "masculine" in my opinion), be able to lead people, support your family, etc. I feel like saying feminine = submissive and male = alpha is the reason we have had to push for women's voices to be heard in the first place, cuz people didn't take us seriously, cuz we shouldn't be the ones "leading or providing."
@@chrystianaw8256, solutions come from logic. In your own words, logic is gender neutral...
Wow….my heart BROKE for all these men talking about growing up without fathers.
Ya...the down fall of society is fathers not being home and mothers thinking they don't need fathers and what they bring. So many spread the lie, "I don't need no man!"...actually ya, you do and so do the kids.
It’s really not that hard, I don’t understand the patronizing sympathy of these men
Masculinity is strength. The problem with this panel is people think because the definition of what it means to be a man is changing (that men can be multifaceted and have varying levels of masculinity and femininity) that it means the definition of masculinity is changing, no masculinity is still masculinity.
Well said
I agree. There seemed to be some confusion (from both the panel and Amala) between the definitions of “masculine”, “man”, and “male gender roles”.
Instead of dealing with reality, people want to invent "good" masculinity for sake of betterment for society which is an impossible task bcs being good man makes you vulnerable and counterproductive. Like good masculine man shouldn't have multiple women, but biology decided differently
I mean this reminds me of the valuable lesson I learned when I went to boot camp for a week. I outclassed everybody and was rewarded by serving my drill instructors their dinner. Only to turn around and get slighted for the top overall participant. That honor went to a white guy. Who was good don’t get me wrong. But, obviously not nearly as good as I was. Women were passing out and quitting left and right with nowhere to go. They were stuck for the entirety of boot camp unless for medical emergencies, suicide watch, etc. Nevertheless I was pissed and had to take being overlooked on the chin with no protest. To make a long story short I was proud of myself for enduring in the end.
I think there have been historical mens spaces where we shared our frustrations, emotions, and perspectives both safely and among our peers. The barbershop, the happy hour spot, "man" Caves, the basketball court, boy scouts, etc. They werent perfect because there were still some social restrictions we sometimes carried into those spaces (e.g. don't cry like a **** but still tell your story) but if we did go full emotional from cry to expressed rage then it was something bad enough no one could deny. Men show emotion in limited spaces. This is where you heard terms like brotherhood. We may talk a good game of don't show emotions but let's be real...we did in these spaces if you really paid attention.
Overtime these spaces began to be demonized ,degraded, blurred by outside opinions and integrations, excessive morality, and made unsafe for men to process their maybe flawed impulses in a place where they won't be ousted and persecuted by the general public and scarlet letter because of trigger happy labelling of someone desperately wanting to fight a -ism ,-ogny, or -archy. A man or boy amongst his peers to find out if his current struggles or thoughts are trippin or extreme and rounded out safely and quietly and so that he can go back into the excessively judgemental world that often handles those same ideas or moments poorly. I will concede that it only takes a few flawed unsavy from those spaces to cause a destructive retaliation to these spaces (it only takes one negative).. like wreckless sabotage by scandel.
These spaces were not necessarily among women and therefore it allowed true free expression of those rough edges so that iron sharpens iron. They still exist but now they are Walmart brand quality of those spaces and decreasing.
Men hide their flawed emotions and struggle in even more limited spaces now that we have the "thought police" and don't know who will rush to persecute even among peers when they're just currently in that state and trying to figure it out. Someone won't just go hey..That's not it man.....instead they go full fire and brimstone and ostracize beyond rehab. Social justice doesn't rehab well either by its congregation. Same beast.
Yeah. I've been toying about with the idea that maybe men's clubs weren't such a bad thing. Maybe such things could be brought back and beneficial. I'm thinking a place when men can spend time without female interference. There could be a loud bar as a front where everyone can come, but with membership to men only, men could get in the back, have a silent space to relax or to work, maybe a small gym, maybe different spaces in which they could be engaging in different activities, maybe even access to certain services, like a psychiatrist/psychologist, classes for different things, I'm thinking singing and dancing (because singing is great for mental health and dancing helps with women), but also voluntary mentoring for young men for a lower subscription (for both the mentor and the mentoree), stuff like that. All of those things would help men be and become better men, and then when they'd go out in society, that'd be a net benefit for everyone.
I know progressives would fight that tooth and nail, but well… progressives are not very good at identifying what's good and what's bad for the long term. The two main problems with this is that I'm not sure how legal that would be nowadays, but also, it would be super expensive, both to put in place, and then to get it to run indefinitely (subscriptions would be for already rich people basically).
Amala talks about how her BF took her to a really nice first dinner and how it meant a lot to her. Then she also talks about how if you can't afford 150$ dinners, tell the girl you don't have money and get a coffee..... haha. Man if only women could experience being a guy for a few months.
The right woman will care more about the time spent with you rather than how expensive a date is :)
@@rockyroad179 If you don't do everything well in the first few interactions the "right" woman won't be getting to know you at all. She's on to the next guy who understands how to peacock perfectly, who has no moral qualms about lying and being fake to get what he wants. This is the very reason girls complain about douche bags constantly. ~30% of guys will do and say whatever they need to, and it works.
The first few dates are very simple, it's the same as the first few conversations. You have to display value, taking a girl to mc donalds is going to be your first and last date 99% of the time.
The "right women will care about time spent with you" is such a typical response. And yes, its true, ONCE she already likes you and you have done everything correctly to get to that point. Women build up fantasies in their mind of meeting the right guy all their lives and all the boxes that need to be checked, and this is fine. Tell me, in your perfect dinner date scenerio what restaurant are you at?
Men only require one box to be checked when dating, is she attractive. This is an easy box to check and women often believe a guy is more into them, when the reality is that this is the only box they need to check and it's not hard. My advice to women in attracting the right guy, would be to imagine what other boxes this guy might have. What would it take to check the long term gf potential, have kids with, wife material, shared interests, caring, peaceful, good life teammate etc boxes. If you don't believe a guy sees that potential in you, he's only there because you're checking the first box.
Ok, I'll stop ranting.
I think the point is if you can't afford to date, wait, plan and be very selective with the women you choose to date
@@steph6109 That's exactly my point. A man must be able to "afford" the date that persuades a woman of his value. A woman does not. And Amala speaks as though this isn't important, when she herself admitted to finding and thus dating a man who could "afford" her more ideal date, while simultaneously telling men to just go somewhere cheaper.
Women have far more criteria for who they select than simply looks when it comes to long term relationships. They are taught to from a very young age and it's part of evolution. And for good reasons.
Doesn't it seem somewhat patronizing for someone who was attracted to the more expensive date, to act as though any date would have sufficed and that it's not about money when it so clearly is? Lets not pretend that some cheap fast food date, or grabbing a coffee is going to yield the same results as 5 star restaurants. She openly states to wanting to be support by a man on many occasions, despite being quite successful herself. Clearly money matters to her.
Id have more respect for someone who just says "yes, expensive dates do matter, it's a measure of the kind of lifestyle a man can provide, and that's something women look for"
@@SmthIcanNvrHave I don’t think it’s that black and white though. I think while it’s every woman’s preference to have a $150 date at Ocean Prime over a $10 date at Starbucks, life happens and the *right woman* will understand that many young men are still figuring out their financial situation. I would love to have a fancy date with a guy but I’m also a college student, most of the guys i’ve been on a date with are college age or + a few years, we can’t afford $150 here and there. The initiative of the man to even just pay $10, the honesty in him saying he can’t afford the expensive date, the dedication to providing a nicer date someday when financially possible, these are all signs of a responsible, caring, honest, masculine man. If a woman does not accept this, then she is not the right woman, and you saved yourself $150 in the long run.
I think masculinity is an aura of strength, protection, knowledge, stability, hardness.. I think femininity is an aura of softness, nurturing, feeling, fluidity, emotion. Both men and women can have all these traights to varying degrees. But because it is more an aura than a tangible it is hard to define in words.
I find maleness and true masculinity deeply attractive. I see masculine as an outward strength, inner stability, logical and linear thinking. Character driven behavior i.e., protectiveness, standing on the literal and proverbial front lines, a stillness and straightforward direction of purpose when completing tasks. Some men have the most glorious smell too. Call it pheromones or whatever but I've smelled a few men's scent that literally makes me weak in the knees and drives all sense from my mind.
I love men and what they represent. I love that they create things that last a lifetime, I love the way their arm muscles move when they're working on something, I love a strong man's back (weird, yes, but omg yum).
Never will I ever, ever find a man who puts on makeup and wears a dress or women's clothing even remotely attractive. In fact, I find it deeply offensive when a man claims to have period cramps and swears he too can be a mom or a woman who thinks getting a penis will give her the amazing God-given traits He instilled in most men.
No one cares, men can wear what they want, not fit inside your definition of what it means to be one
@@friedfrog5447 people do care and are allowed to just as some are allowed to not care. Stop acting like a child
S/O to your comment. You love real men lol. I agree men who don't even represent as men shouldn't even be in this conversation. Just like biological men shouldn't be in womens convos regarding the woman experience and or fields.
@@liannemarie2504 Meaningless namecalling
@@friedfrog5447 one, I didn't call you a name but, nice try. Two, it's not meaningless. You stated something and I rebutted your argument.
Griffin is imo the only toxic person on that panel. Not for his masculinity (he very much had none) but for just being a very negative person who seemed to hate men. That is true toxicity.
Agree 100%
Better than Christian who was damaged growing up, that he needed a man that could provide protection. At least Griffin seemed like a physically and emotionally stronger person.
@@thomasrosendahl2783 Christian just has daddy issues. It's a fairly common phenomenon. But Griffin has very real mental issues that will take years of therapy to overcome. Because of these issues he is a very hateful and toxic individual. I hope he can get help
Christian (who projected his daddy issues and fetishises of a masculine man) was arrogant and loud IMO, he only defended the male stereotypes because that’s what his kink is. And the cowboy guy was pushing his religion too much
@@Matthew-sl8dx Arrogance or a god fearing attitude are perfectly fine as long a you aren't beig toxic and hateful. Griffin literally shoots down every person's opinion and spews factually incorrect hatred towards men when he himself can't even recognise that he is a man. That level of self hatred is beyond anything the other members of the panel had.
Honestly I think using the word "energy" is quite silly. Children don't need to be around "masculine and feminine energies" they need to have both male and female role models in their life.
As a woman I am glad my husband was masculine. He was strong and a good provider but he did have a soft side when it came to our children. I felt safe, he had strength that woman don't have. I don't mind doing the cooking but if he wants to help I love it. I don't want a wimpy man. I contribute as well by
Working. You have to now days since everything is very expensive.
I wish my estranged wife appreciated and valued this aspect, I work and provide, I protect, I play with and nurture my children with life wisdom from a man's perspective. I come home and I help cook and clean on top of do my fatherly duty with the kids, when something goes wrong in the house or in the car I do my best to mitigate the problem. But yet, she's unhappy and has separated herself from me, so I'm holding onto hope but preparing myself for the worst, women today just don't take responsibility like they used to. 80% of divorce is filed by women, usually within 3-5 years and often just because they get bored, we men lose everything because they don't hold themselves accountable to the marriage.
@@MoparMikeMM bro there ain’t no way ur ranting on UA-cam abt how ur wife should appreciate you more 💀 you should communicating and finding out what you need to improve, not blaming and ranting about her? Seems like you don’t love her at all and that explains it all
@@Matthew-sl8dx check your ignorance bro, it's showing. I've stood for our relationship several times, I'm not the party at fault, she has borderline personality disorder, ADHD, PTSD, high anxiety and depression. Before me she bounced from relationship to relationship, usually cheated and left, she recently confessed narcissistic tendencies and selfish motivations to the point of not caring who gets hurt as long as she gets her way.
I love her even though I have every right to disconnect and move on with the kids... but I still cling to hope that she'll wake up and get help so she can have a happier loving home. It's not conceited to say I pay most the bills and do most of the work in the relationship, because it's true on all merits. I try to be the loving, providing safe place she needs when her inner demons torment her but nothing is good enough, I'm not perfect but to say I don't love her is a down right lie as bold and ugly as Hitlers heart. People like you who browse through comments, not knowing a thing but insert ignorant opinions are what's wrong with the comment section. Now if you have nothing better to do, I ask that you move along because this was ridiculous to even interject such vile garbage. I don't nag or raise my voice to my wife, I supported her choice to be jobless after a meltdown at work a while back so she could get herself in a better mindset, months I took the brunt of her lack of work and diminished house duties. That alone says something
It’s funny how the guys where so much more chill than the girls where 😂
cuz of their masculinity 💀
Modern women in america are led to believe that they are "smarter" than man, which fuels their self confidence which leads to these type of embarasments whnever women discuss any topic, they SIMPLY CANNOT BE WRONG
@@fugana5073 well its not necessarily a matter of intelligence. its that women tend to process information from a more emotional lense and in turn end up arguing the same way, whereas men typically process and argue from a more analytical lense.
Simps, most of them
@@leah6997 in general, emotional arguments are not valid and thus not intelligent arguments. "I feel like" or is not a logical argument and the other group did a lot of that.
Masculinity is what I would call traits that are predominantly male. Provider, protector, accountable, humble, and kind. It doesn't mean that women cannot share these traits, but that the traits are predominantly male. There are always outliers.
A man who considers himself as a transgender woman should not have an opinion. They are confusing sex and gender, why would we consider that point of view on this topic? Not to say that they do not have value, but in this topic it would be like putting me on a panel to discuss what it means to be a transgender woman.
Griffin was only interested in being contrary and condescending. He was in a contest and not a debate. As far as I'm concerned, he had nothing of value to offer. The other men, whether you agreed with them or not, were open, non judgmental (unlike Griffin) came across as honest and exposing themselves. I found what they had to say was very interesting. Although the guy that complained of paying $150 for a date came across as a whiner and not being comfortable in his own skin and struggling to find himself. He needs to stay out of the dating world till he finds himself and grows up. I think that men aren't wired to expose their emotions. I don't see that as a weakness or a flaw. They may have very good friends that they might share a problem that they are having but I doubt that they go into detail about their emotions about it. Women are wired differently and open up easily about their emotions and how things affect them. What I think is masculine is someone who wants to make sure I am safe, is chivalrous (hold that door: if they see me struggling with something that requires muscle will offer help; courteous, etc), takes on the "in control" role. I know that these are traits for both men and women but these are some traits that I see as masculine.
Yeah Griffin is absolutely insufferable. He has such a punchable face lmao, especially with those absolutely obnoxious condescending expressions.
I think griffin just disagreed? Which is the whole point of the debate, I don’t understand all this hospitality towards them, do I fully agree with griffin? No. But if we are talking about obnoxious people in this debate Christian and cowboy are 2 strong contenders
@@Matthew-sl8dx big question why is Griffin even here, if he doesnt identify as a man
@@egrassa1480 that’s exactly the point though, griffin said they do have sides that are masculine, they don’t necessarily have to identify as a man when visually we can see they have masculine characteristics and they acknowledge that. It’s just another “type” of masculinity and the whole point is to have varying views. They all are different griffin included, but ALL of them still have masculine traits in both their biology and appearance.
Masculinity is a male/manly set of traits. Is it unsuprising in this age of single motherhood and fatherless children that it's more common for women embody traditional masculine traits such as being responsible, honorable, good providers, etc? Amala keeps saying "well women can be that" but the fact that a woman cana exhibit a masculine trait doesn't mean it's not a masculine trait. The debate is "what is masculinity" not "what is a male".
Congratulations, Scott! ❤️❤️❤️
I wish you and the baby a happy, heathly life.
The problem isn't women having these expectations it's the fact that they expect them without giving anything in return
Notice how they didnt include any females claiming to be males yet 2 males were included in the womens conversation
I noticed that as well.
Because females are not males… very simple. And as for the last female panel… and for the female episode, those 2 males posing as women should have not been on the panel at all.
Yes, made me furious. And Griffin on this panel seemed happy to speak for women despite never being one
I've been married to my wonderful, very masculine husband for eight and a half years. The comments about male loneliness and higher suicid3 rates really caught my attention. One of the great benefits to a healthy marriage for men is that they can really talk to their wives and receive support if they truly feel respected and supported by their wives. That doesn't remove the need for companionship with other males, but I know my husband appreciates being able to talk about his day or tell me about things that were frustrating. Our "energies," for lack of a better word, are complementary. I make sure to arrange for our couple friends to come over so that he feels connected to his friends because, as a woman, I'm more mindful of social connections. I also encourage him to go golfing with his buddies and spend time with his brothers. We have two kids under the age of 3, so I make sure to encourage him to reach out socially and commend him for being a good father and not guilt trip him. This is so little in the balance of everything that he provides for our little family and me in particular. We support each other in different ways and we enjoy our marriage and being parents.
I think biology comes into this and no one wants to say it. For example, Fortune Feimster is a masculine woman. She's a stand-up comedienne that dresses and carries herself like a man but still "identifies" as a woman. Just like there are effeminate males like Carson Kressley who carries himself like a woman. Then it stops because no one can say what a woman is with a clear definition because they dance around biology trying to save people's feelings. It's a BS hamster wheel powering a music box that plays "This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and, on my friends, some people started singing it not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because"...............
Love your work Amala! I appreciate so much your voice in all this. Here’s my play of ideas with this question: Masculinity is active, positive, brightness, sky, sunshine, fire, hardness, male, daytime, restless, hot… or as the Taoists say, Yang. Femininity is passive, negative, darkness, earth, water, softness, female, night-time, slowness, cold… or as the Taoists say, Yin.
The universe runs on duality, no matter how hard we may try we cannot escape that. The only way to experience anything at all is to understand its opposite. I think what people struggle with the most is acknowledging that being a man doesn’t confine you to having only Yang qualities, and being a woman doesn’t confine you to only Yin qualities. In other words, "maleness" or "manliness" is a quality of masculinity, not necessarily an indicator of it. Every moment of every day we all vacillate between them. Take a casual conversation for example: the time you spend talking, you are expressing Yang energy, and the time you spend listening, you are expressing Yin energy. All of us are always both, just depends on how much of either one at any one time.
They're all talking about "Manhood" not Masculinity. Masculinity is defined by the same factors as Femininity. Biology, neurological function, mental cognitive thought and then psychological (Nature Vs Nurture) Both men and women display the same emotions and can display the same traits the difference is how Masculinity or Femininity display them. Women can be aggressive but how do they show that trait? Traits are characterised by Primary and secondary, are they displayed consistently and do they vary from person to person. Femininity due to biology, the brain and nature vs nurture will display aggression predominately through social attacks, rumour mongering, character assassination. Males will display aggression through physical altercation, being loud. Men will instinctively display Nurture by assessing a situation, ensuring the child they are O.k and encourage them to "Get back on the bike" Femininity instinctively displays nurturing through emotional support, both are needed to help a child's development. Empathy in men leans more to "I hear you now I need to give you advice" Empathy in Women "I feel you and I will hold you while you ride the emotional wave" Men and Women can learn different behaviours, men can learn to just let people vent and they don't need to give in to immediately wanting to find a solution and women can learn to cut back on the feels and learn to find the time to start talking about solutions; that's part of nature Vs nurture.
OMG!!!!!!!! Congratulations on your baby Scott ! I just had my daughter after three boys so that is super exciting ❤
I don't fully agree with the crying metric. The concept sure. Masculinity isn't about never crying, it's about being able to regulate your emotions and be more consistent in them. It is ok to cry, but only in the right circumstances. Crying at a funeral is fine. Bursting into tears in the middle of Walmart, not so much.
But in terms of how often a person cries, I don't really think that can be quantified. For example, I can only remember crying twice in the last five years. Stress does not make me cry. Sadness does not make me cry. That's not "unhealthy" per se, it's just reality. I don't put specific effort into not crying, it just doesn't often occur.
Good points
Plenty of people would disagree, and say men don't cry, which is why its just cultural made up opinions that no one should carr about comforming to.
Crying like a baby because someone told you that you aren’t a woman or man
Yes! As a woman, I don't cry often as an adult. Maybe once every couple of months when I have a very difficult day and I only cry for a few minutes and feel better. If people feel a lot of relief when crying, go for it! But for me as well, it doesn't relieve stress as well as other methods like exercise
Masculinity is a scale. Masculine traits and feminine traits one on each side. Your "level" of Masculinity is the measurement between masculine and feminine traits.
Masculinity is strength, leadership, sacrifice, resilience, and provision.
I'm newer to her channel, but Amala came off as rather condescending in this reaction. She condemned them for not "defining" masculinity, but she couldn't either. When she tried to define it she gave the answer I would expect from a feminist. That on top of constantly bashing the man with religion. A bit much.
I thought so too
Traits of masculinity are the desire to father children, be a strong dependable protective husband, raise your children & be a father and family head with strong principles, adore your family, they are your whole world and you are their leader.
If that’s the definition then most men are not masculine😂caring about family and kids? What a joke
@@khamrhod8360 You are exactly correct: Most men are not masculine in our current society.
@@rydaddy2867
According to you maybe, but neither men nor women have to comform to what you believe
The most valuable purpose of a man on this planet is to build a family provide, protect, guide, and prepare them for the future. What is more important as a man?
@@donaldgrump3343 purpose is subjective
OMG. That's like "common courtesy" - opening the door for lady, walking on the outside of the sidewalk shows protection in case a vehicle comes up onto the sidewalk. That guy is a red flag right there.
For people knocking Mr. Cowboy Hat's perspective, what he's saying is not only a valid opinion because he *believes* the Triune God is real; it is objectively factual if the Triune God *is* real, regardless of belief. This is the difference between an opinion and a presupposition.
Did I miss something? When did he say triune?
Exactly!! Thank you for saying this so I didn't have to do it! Cheers mate!! 🍻🍻
Except he never said Truine. You inserted that and have no proof to validate your claim. Its called faith for a reason. Stop embarrassing believers.
No, it is not objectively factual. People are knocking it because it is not anchored in reality and he keeps resting on that non-factual belief.
Religion will never be proved and until then it will never been seen as factual until proven otherwise. Of course to him he might believe it, but it’s not a Fact if it’s still not been proven
Even as an Ex-Christian, cowboy hat is incredibly annoying
Men are lower in agreeableness and neuroticism, therefore we can kind of define masculinity as the ability to regulate negative emotion (leading to stoicism and limiting violent outbursts) and to disagree or push back (even against strong peer pressure, and hopefully respectfully) when something appears incorrect or improper. I think those match well with what society traditionally idealized as healthy masculinity.
Masculinity and Femininity are not the same as being Male or Female.
You are male or female biologically , but Femininity is more defined by more emotional, neuring soft trates , masculinity tends to be the more physical , protective, active traits. It the yin and the yang. and each person is on a slider
There are some aspects of masculinity that a man must do to be masculine. If he doesn't, he isn't really masculine. At the same time, while a woman can have those exact same traits, it is not necessary for her to have them for her to be a woman. I think that Amala isn't realizing that. While a woman can work hard and take care of her people, it isn't necessary for her to do so in order to be a woman. It isn't the same for a man. A man must take care of his people.
Many choose to be alone, so no that's not true
@@jonathandevereaux298 There is a difference between not taking care of your people and not having people to take care of. If you don't have people, then you don't have someone to take care of.
@@Lance.Gardenhire You say that it's not necessary for a woman to have these traits in order to be a woman. Are you implying here that that's not the case for a man? Is it NECESSARY for a man to have all these traits in order to be a man?
@@cd6305 yes. I'm saying that a man must have these traits to be a "real man," and I don't think Amala is making that distinction.
@@Lance.Gardenhire oh okay. So if a man doesn't have these traits he is some sort of third gender in your world view?
I actually disagree with Amala’s take on this discussion. When the men say being a mane is having integrity, strength, provider and protector, she says that women can be that too. But then when the guys says that women expect all the stuff on a date, she says she should cause she will need a mad with those qualities to provide and protect her is she gets pregnant. It makes no sense. Yes, women can be strong, protective and provide for their family, but should they have to be? Or is it more natural for them to be more nurturing, sensitive, and submissive to take on her role as a mother and wife, which allows the man to take on his role as a husband and father. Or vice versa.
I think she got caught up into thinking they were talking about what defines a man. When they were actually talking about masculine traits, which both genders can exhibit.
@@bajjanitor shes contradicting herself
What they refer to as "toxic" is just rude, selfish, and /or abusive.
Why is Griffin on this panel?
Why can he not be on this panel?
@C D he is not a masculine man and insists on speaking for women, he's a weirdo
I agree with what the guy said with the 5 points. A man a male who can sacrific for the people in his life. He should be the first to sacrific for the family.
Griffin shouldn't have been on that panel. He was very judgemental and constantly blamed "Men" when valid points were brought up. Such as asking for help or mental health struggles. Having 2 hetero parents is not a Western society thing either. Many countries and cultures before us have had a mother and father in "traditional roles." If he doesn't want to have a traditional relationship or family, so be it. He shouldn't be so condescending to those who do.
I'm about 15 minutes in and I'm not sure I can finish this because the commentary, in my opinion, is horrible. Amala and her Co host fail to see that men are not women. So them stopping constantly to say "but women can" or "but women do" whenever someone uses the words principled, responsible and the like is not thought out well.
The reason is, again in my opinion, because the consequences are incredibly different. Because men are more geared towards violence and competition these words therefore have a completely different meaning to them and without a strong, let's say attachment, to these words for men you wind up with grapes, murders and many other awful things. Amala and her Co host do this discussion a disservice by brushing the thoughts off with a "but women can".
Here’s what Men bring to the table to women know… Access to resources, education, protection,… Now it’s your turn what do women bring to the table that men do not?
what do you mean exactly with "access to resources and education"? Do you mean a woman being educated by her boyfriend/husband WITHIN a relationship or just women being educated by men in society in general?
I wouldn’t say my husband is a “masculine” or “feminine” man he’s got a good balance of both and I think that’s what ppl should really strive for because too much of one side can be toxic
“She didn’t trick u. U got tricked” ….?
Where’s the accountability.. I usually whole hearted agree with the stuff u say. But imo u should’ve let him explain that most women these days who want those boxes checked don’t check a damn box we want checked, before you said “red flag red flag”. U missed the point that clearly he does this stuff every time but wants the same standard of femininity in return. In my opinion u misrepresented this guy because u didn’t listen to his explanation, just his complaint..But I do acknowledge that you kiinda recognized that but it was too little too late :/. “She didn’t trick u, u got tricked” is so lame…
Note for creator: I know u didn’t make this content for me, I just respect you enough to give you my opinion and I respect your opinion fully as well
If you speak French (and even if you don’t) there is a song called “Un Homme” by Jérémy Frerot which is all about the struggle of being a man in today’s world and what it means to be a man.
Masculine - Rough & Rugged
Feminine - Soft & Tender
Wrong?
For all the definitions where Amala gets exasperated because women 'can' be.. leaders, strong, etc. that doesn't mean they aren't masculine traits just that women who match those descriptions are showing a masculine behavior. The fact that those descriptions apply in general to a larger majority of men than women helps to prove this is the case. Masculine traits manifest because of fundamental differences in development. Male development enhances features like decisiveness, inclination to physical conflict, stronger attraction to the physical and visceral things around them. The list goes on but the truth is we KNOW that these things are male because it's built in! People may be trying to socially shift the definition but the fact is when you start cultivating males contrary to these fundamentals you are cultivating them away from their inherent nature.
Can it be done? Sure. Can some men thrive under it? Definitely. But is there potential to damage a large number of men by socially pressuring them to deny their nature in favor of the opposite feminine traits? I would say there is no doubt and we are already seeing this.
All this and it doesnt even touch on the impact of undermining the nature of half our population has on our world at large and socially because the male nature has a ROLE to fulfill in the human existence that you can't just erase and expect it to be fine!
Culturally speaking, there is a sense of what ideal masculinity is and what ideal femininity looks like. Very few people in the world fit these ideals in every single way; the rest of us are doing our best to approach these ideals (or in the case of nonbinary folks, trying their best to NOT fit these ideals). Modern society is telling us in so many different ways that we can still be valuable as men without being this ideal -- but the ideal remains the same. Confident, strong in the face of even the most difficult challenges, doing rather than talking (sorry, Amala, but "talking a lot" is a feminine trait, not a masculine one), ready to take responsibility for his failures, ambitious in the sense of forever working to improve himself, devoted to friends and family... this is masculinity. Toxic masculinity is any masculine behavior that strays from this pattern. So much misogyny, so much violence in this world, for example, is the result of men who aren't confident -- they turn to violence as a way of feeling powerful and important because they can't achieve in the world and feel masculine in that more "natural" way.
Doesn’t matter. Men don't have to conforme to what you or society wants. Its people like you are exactly why they've been toxic throughout history.
Neither do women
This is my favorite video you have made so far. You are both able to discuss masculinity with such nuance and care that I haven't seen elsewhere.
I noticed Amala and Talor really struggled with why someone wouldn't let go of what they believe and just make other arguments that others could agree with, but the thing is, when you find the truth and know what the truth is, you don't need to keep searching, and you are definitely not going to shy away from sharing truth with others because speaking the truth matters.
Share the truth even if someone chooses not to believe it. Share the truth still.
Congratulations, Scott. Enjoy your new baby girl. From someone who became an uncle at the age of 10, I enjoyed taking care of my niece. I pretty much became her babysitter who spent hours on end of caring for her. Now she lives in Australia with her new 10 day old son. Why am I saying this? It is because I want to impart that time flies really, really fast. Enjoy every moment with your baby girl. Babies are so precious. Enjoy being a dad.
Amala: I talk a lot for a woman...
Girl, woman are known as talkers. It is a rare thing to find a talkative man
A man is a human male. Masculinity is having the traits of strength, stoicism and dependability on a level above the norm.
As a gay man, I'm definitely attracted to more masculine guys, because I am more sensitive, shy, introverted or so to say I'm not a masculine guy, so in a partner I will always look for a more masculine guy, I'm not saying that sensitive guys can't be masculine but I've always been more submissive so naturally I'd look for an assertive guy, because men being masculine is very attractive to me.
I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A RESPECTFUL CONVERSATION IN THE REPLIES ON THIS! IM ALWAYS OPEN TO DIFFERING EXPERIENCES AND OPINIONS AS LONG AS WE KEEP IT KIND!
I am going to have to disagree with Amala in regards to her commentary about male sexual assault. I think there is a conversation to be had about men not being taken seriously, HOWEVER, from my experience it’s almost exclusively been at the hands of other men saying he’s lucky. That’s something that needs to be corrected however women should not bare the blame of something that has nothing to do with them. Especially when biologically it is much harder to forcefully rape a man as a woman. Which is unarguably more traumatizing. That’s probably why it’s taken more seriously not only because it causes much more damage physically but also mentally due to the distress of being forced into sexual contact in which you experience pain. That’s usually not the case for men. Also the Johnny Depp example was just not true. Almost everyone both famous or not jumped to defend Depp. Even during the trial people were making fun of Herd. I would also argue that men jump to any examples of female perpetrators rather than women actively searching for male perpetrators. There just so happens to be more examples of male on female crime. And if it appears to be sought after that should say something about the rates in which we see women being victimized by men. Once again I’m completely open to having friendly conversation on this and I have Amala to thank for that! 🫶
amala says ….”in many ways i’m masculine … I run a podcast, I talk a lot.”
😂 pretty good breakdown of “masculine” traits.
I appreciate you Amala! You are very dedicated you was raised like me
1:21:22 yes!! Just showing these 2 vice videos back to back, one can see that the women there got more emotional/laughing maniacally/getting personally offended/... While the men here have kept it pretty respectful and not personal (-not getting personally offended by what the others said).
Yes for sure this is way more calm than the feminist panel and I was waiting for them to get into a huge argument and be making fun of each other like the women were and it literally was perfectly fine.
19:53 actually i am guilty of that, now i realize that, many years ago, back on 2004/2005 i was with friends on a shopping mall and we saw some guy very well groomed without any hint of hair on him, i commented that it was not a manly thing to do, and a male friend of mine said he also did that and that made me realize that we have some sort of bias to whom we are attracted to
Actually it's more like 85% of women going for 5% of men.
Anyone can be toxic there's so many toxic humans on this Earth male and female!
Being masculine isn't toxic and being feminine isn't toxic! What the hell is wrong with people?🤦
If both men and women can be masculine that means that both men and women can possess toxic masculinity the same way that both men and women can possess toxic feminity. Toxic masculinity can not only apply to men if both men and women can be masculine.
@@brentthompson1607 I agree! what about toxic femininity? If masculinity toxic, so is femininity: Whining, crying, being pathetic, over emotional etc. I think people just need to get a grip and just be themselves. And just accept not being an a hole!
@@brentthompson1607 he meant masculinity in itself is not toxic just like femininity in itself is not toxic. Masculinity is a trait, not a behavior; know the difference. "Toxic masculinity" is a made-up term created by misandrist feminists and is used by people who don't know any better.
I grew up in the south. No one ever told me I need to be a certain man or why but tv shows did and the sexy men on tv… I wanted to be liked like them but I didn’t know how. I didn’t want to go to the gym or sleep with many women… so I was called gay. I thought I was gay because I was being called gay at age 13. I am not gay and i don’t like me but if everyone calls me that… maybe I am or should be. It didn’t work. I didn’t want to like men, I like women.
It wasn’t until I moved to China at 18 for college did my toxic masculinity culture disappear shame slowly year after year. I was told I wasn’t a man in China unless I smoked, drank, and slept with women. I didn’t want to do those things like they did. I was a Christian and wanted to honor them, I wanted to honor a wife one day. So, God taught me through my experiences that I am a man of God and he is where I learn to be a man. It’s really that simple.
The moral of the story is: comparison and cultures will always be the poison of what masculinity is but only God truly show me what a man is because he created man AND woman. There is a different and I am grateful to be a man of God and not of my culture.
“According to the Bible and by the example of Christ, masculinity is humble leadership. It is sacrificial love and incredible meekness. Our society needs revitalized masculinity. We need masculinity that will treat women with honor, prize honesty and fight for the sake of the vulnerable. Rather than removing all boundaries for masculinity or clinging to a toxic version of it, biblical masculinity is rooted in the dedicated imitation of Christ. “
"I do not identify as a man" then what are you doing on the panel? I don't get it
It makes sense if I actually think about it. Someone who doesn’t believe in the concept of gender. It’s a different take from other people on the panel (which is the whole point) people with different views finding common ground and agreeing to disagree
Whos murdering all these women on their first date?
Police should maybe look into this if there are serial killers doing this??
Strawman statements about straw men for straw men
Generally when it comes to romantic relationships men need to feel respected and appreciated. Women need to feel cared for and secure (both need to feel loved). Masculine and feminine are manifestations of those respective desires. This is why it's considered masculine for men to pay the bill at dinner and feminine for women to expect that. Even if the woman has a decent job and is capable of paying half. This dynamic is an innate characteristic for both sexes and is as old as human existence. There are exceptions to every rule but no amount of social engineering will overide the fact that this is how the majority of men and women are.
You are talking bad of men. 80+ % of men have been historically very loyal.
11:46 That guy knows who he is with his five points
To the cowboy in the back, a real man would remove his hat indoors!