Great meme. That's not true, though. Cynicism is the thing people use to excuse evil. Belief in good makes it harder to do any evil. Because you also have to believe in the good of the people you're doing evil to.
For me the best 2 moments were Darrow coming out of the beast covered in blood and throwing his speech reclaiming his Ashvar as an obsidian, EPIC. And Cassius…don’t-” I warn. “I must. I am Cassius Bellona, son of Tiberius, son of Julia, brother of Darrow, Morning Knight of the Solar Republic, and my honor remains.” Then he rushes forward. How can they not feel anything there? I cried and felt full of pride and sorrow because he is facing his son/brother and leaving in the highest note possible, did I saw it coming? Yes. Did it change the impact? Not at all
My favourite scene in the book is where Darrow goes on this huge tangent to the Daughters of Athena to justify his actions and convince them of the bigger picture, and Diomedes is like "Yeah you're technically right, go ahead and kill me".
I think one of my favorite action sequences is the Fa Ashvar fight. The bashing of the blades, “confess” over and over, Darrow figuring out his new duel wield form, OH MY LORD so cool
So interesting how you reacted to Cassius’ death coz I was a crying mess for days. In fact no character death in any book, movie or tv show has ever hit me that hard, and I’ve read and watched a lot of them and rarely ever cry. When I really think about his life and all that he’s been through there’s just a sort of sorrow that engulfs me because he was a man who was lonely and lost for most of his life but was so desperately trying to be a good person. His story really felt tragic to me and I really wanted him to have a happily ever after, considering he lost his family, friends, everything. He was definitely my favorite character in the series and knowing that we’re gonna experience red god without him in it makes me very upset.
Yes, you summed that up perfectly. There's such a sense of a life cut short just when he was finding his way. His had been such a lonely, sad life. He lost his twin (which, I did feel his rage at Darrow for Julian's death was a weak plot point. It's the Institute. It's the Hunger Games on steroids. It was a completey unfair set up, kill or be killed. HE killed his opponent. How is he any better than Darrow then?) Anyway, he had been through so much, lost so much, betrayed his dearest friends in the worst possible way, Lysander turned out to be like an Obi/Anakin relationship gone equally wrong, and JUST when he started to turn his life around and find some small amount of love and mended relationships and all the potential we could have had of the Three Musketeers back together again, it gets cut short. The little pissant kills him.
There wasn’t more for Cassius to do???? Bro got the Morning Knight title again and he could’ve been fighting alongside Darrow on Mars against Atlantia. He started a new bond with Lyria. He was getting along with Sevro towards the end. We didn’t get to see him fall in love with the right woman who loves him back. Idk how you can possibly say this guy’s story was over.
@@reallifeshisui6644 Why is the age gap a limiting factor? Lyria was in her early 20s, Cassius in his mid 30s, both consenting adults. I think their relationship could easily be interpreted as flirtatious, even if that wasn’t the intention.
@@Aristogonian idk about easily. You’d have to be the type of person to think that Zuko and katara should’ve been a couple instead of aang if you think they had romantic vibes. Her finding him to be handsome was more related to the constant joke that Cassius is very good looking rather than her wanting to be with him or something. Cassius was still hung over the pink that wanted Diomedes instead
All you mention is secondary. He got what he longed for the most: redemption, forgiveness. He's no longer the villain, he finally stood on the right place. Of course he could've stuck around, but I think his death was greatly placed.
Facts. By the end of Dark Age, I thought Darrow might finally become villanish. Now I'm afraid about him sacrificing. Also, the fact that his character is almost closed and that now we have multiple POVs...
Really gotta call Richards commentary on Jupiter into question as they never were on Jupiter and while making landfall they had both volcanic and sea biomes lol. Idk man, if you arent getting these details then you really just arent reading very closely, because these worlds are pretty starkly different. Id agree that PB doesn't spend a lot of page count on worldbuilding into the details, but these broad strokes are very there and I dont really find it to be fair or accurate commentary that the planets are just non descript
It honestly sometimes feels like they (especially Rich) only care about the action scenes in books. Rich literally says he only started caring once the action started (200 pages). While it ( the whole Phobos part) was probably the least interesting part of the entire book from the narrative and character perspective, the most interesting part of that whole exchange was the anxiety Pierce Brown gave me when I saw there are no more Virginia chapters past 34 and that's it. Pretty much nothing of value happened there apart that Ajax died whose entire existence was pointless to begin with.
I loved the direction Atlas was going as a villain. Then they just made him loyal to the Society and order. I thought there was so much more to him than that to just have him killed off.
I think Cassius deaths was hinted at a mile away. That scene where he was bonding with Darrow was just too happy for it to last, and if there was an important character to kill off it would be him because we know it’s not Sevro.
I think Diomedes, while being a more static character, did have a bit of a character arc. It was just more subtle. Being around Darrow helped change his point of view on why you wage war and how the hierarchy of colors failed. His values haven’t changed, but his perspectives have and he’s stepping into his role a leader a bit more. I really like Diomedes. He’s the man Lysander thinks himself to be, but isn’t. When push comes to shove, Diomedes made efforts for unity. Diomedes aimed to usher in an era of peace. Diomedes works to be a shepherd. All things Lysander claimed he wanted, convinced himself he wanted. Yet it was Lysander who betrayed the budding triumvirate, murdered Cassius to seize control of an army, and in the end, is aiming for power. In the other two books, I got the impression that Lysander was trying to be Darrow, his childhood hero, but for the golds. In this book, Diomedes is a better foil. I think the fact that Diomedes does change his perspective and is willing to listen to others, take responsibility for this failings, and do so without compromising his core values is another way they differ. Apologies for the length. I had thoughts.
I was pleasantly surprised when the Moon Lords came around to Darrow's side fairly quickly. I was worried it would turn into another "Darrow bad because past" plot, which he did have coming for some things but for other (*cough* Sevro *cough*) it got a bit tiring. I mean Sevro dude the Society will butcher your remaining children if Darrow loses quit knocking the guy for trying to put an end to them. For the Moon Lords they're view of Darrow is still sour, but he destroyed their docks as a strategic act of war. The Society literally nuked one of their moons out of existence to prove a point, not to mention what Lieslander would do to them. If anything the Moon Lords seeing reason was a twist I didn't see coming but appreciated. Finally, some statesmen that aren't complete imbeciles or psychopaths
Pierce said in an interview that the beginning of LB used to be a Sevro PoV of him hunting Atlas on Luna (on the behalf of Abominadrius) before he scrapped the idea.
You guys may not be willing to show or admit it, but I can tell that your relationship as friends is great one. By far what draws me in part to your videos is more the two of you than the books. It won't be long until your channel explodes in subscriptions. Keep up the great work and spectacular entertainment!
SPOILERS I knew Cassius was going to die (I spoiled myself but I think I would have guessed anyway with the whole Brother talk too), but I still cried, even more so with Darrow's reaction to his death. I don't think PB intended to really surprise us, but even if you see it coming you've spent this entire book with him and Darrow, you fell in love with him again and then you've got that Darrow thought of "But I just got him back!" and they've wasted 10 years ! PB said this was the most emotional death he had to write and I agree. Until now the one that got me the most was Ragnar's but I didn't actually cried for Ragnar (I was close but I didn't), here I did
I just found this channel last week and cant watch everything fast enough 😄I happen to have no friends in real life who love fantasy/Sci-if the way I do, so it’s really fun to find a channel like this! Appreciate you both!
Agree on Lyria, i like her but i was really curious to see where the parasite plot line lead to and to what abilities it would give her. A decent amount of page time was spent building it up and then their was no pay off. I was so confused when they got rid of it and for a couple chapters i was thinking, ok well maybe they lied to her and left it in for some ulterior motive but then when it became apparent that that didnt happen it just felt like a completely pointless thing to include in the book. To piggyback off the comment above/below (idk where it will be after i post lol) me, you guys have become my favorite booktube channel and i love the long form in depth discussions you have about books. My friend group arent readers so it is nice to have a place to go where i can feel like a part of a community to discuss these things. Keep doing what your doing and eventually you guys will be at the top of the booktuber food chain.
I think that half the lyria chapter could have been replaced with Volga chapter to explain how she got to Fa's side so hard (to the point of killing for him)
Yeees that was my thoughts too ! I guess maybe Brown didn't do it because we already got Fa's storyline with Lysander but still, Volga's change was way to abrupt and made no sense without her POV, it's my biggest complain about this book
As much plot as this book has, the characters definitely took the front seat. Now that's not to say characters haven't steered the plot in the previous books, but this book feels contained. Like it is meant to set up relationships moving into the big world ending plot. To me it makes sense that this book is so contained. It feels like a worthy successor to IG and DA in its scope, but also in how the characters have developed. IG feels to me like it was intended to flesh out the characters considering how little plot actually happens in that book. DA is the opposite, focusing on the overarching plot of "take back mercury" and the politics leading to the day of red doves. To me it felt like we needed this tight knit, contained, and well crafted story to set us up for RG. Sure this book has little effect on the overall plot, but the characters' arcs take the stage. I don't think this book was ever intended to be a crazy bombastic plot with world ending stakes, or if it was, it was probably in the previous drafts. IMO this book is what the series desperately needed. A return to form. A long deep breath. The calm before the storm...
"How dare [the author(s)] not listen to you after the book was published." what every negative goodreads reviewers expect authors to do, unironically and without any forethought.
oh 2 7s huh? no worries, thats fine. richard you are bald + austin idk your beard is bald? that one doesnt really work but i hope you are still slightly insulted
1:18:00 Counterpoint, Cassius's death does dramatically affect the story because he knew about Eidmi. Lysander being the only one to know about and have access to Eidmi is huge. I have no idea how the story is gonna end, but such a devastating weapon could be the thing that single-handedly ensures Lysander's victory, if the story was anything goes of course, I'd say that carries as much weight as Fitchner's guidance of the Darrow and the other Sons.
Potential plot twist, Eidmi doesn’t actually do anything and the weapon is the fear it instills. Could make sense being the Fear Knight is the one who had it.
I finished this book 12 hours ago (first read through). I laughed more and cried more than any of the others. Laughing at Cassius pointing at his chiseled jaw when volga visits (picturing the gigachad image) And the pain/sorrow that racks Darrow over Cassius' death hurt me a ton. I felt the same "burnout" of death in dark age. Here felt better personally and idk why. Anyway, red god can not come soon enough. I hate catching up on current active series lol
I don't know if you caught it but it's implied that Virginia's source of information about Luna is the Abomination ! That being said : I agree that like the Figment, this might be a choice that PB regrets. I loved DA but my complaint about it was that PB introduced too many knew villains and I feared it was too much, and I think it's proving to be true :/
I LOVED the scenes between Darrow and Cassius after Fa died. It was so sweet and beautiful and kind and it was the scene I was DYING for since Golden Son. I wanted their reunion and reconciliation and a return to the brotherhood they had in the institute. I yearned for them to be brothers again. And it finally happened. But you know what? I have been trained by Pierce Brown. I KNEW that this scene that I had been begging for… signed Cassius’s death warrant. I knew he was going to die before the book’s end. And the way that it happened ruined me
I think it’s interesting that as Lysander has chosen his path. He isn’t able to use to the Minds eye. While Darrow is able to now sink into his Breath of Stone by accepting who he is.
We'll see in red god if cassius' sacrifice has any meaningful effect, other than forcing lysander to choose the dark side. At the moment, it seems he should have just left to warn darrow about the bioweapon. Atlas was an incredible villain, and valdir the fucking unshorned on phobos was great. It's going to be a painful wait.
Great book , never expected book stated as a light YA could become one of the best space opera i ever read. I was surprised on the depth of this story is crazy, im really impressed how one person how can write such complex characters, only Brandon Sanderson impressed me before with being able to juggle such well with lore and worldbuilding.
So I finished Light Bringer today, and I was wondering if it was just me not getting it because everyone was so hyped about this book and I was like : it's a good book, there's some great scenes, but it's nothing compared to Dark Age... Your ratings make me feel less alone thank you ! I think right now my (unpopular) rating of all the books is : Golden Son/ Dark Age (can't decide which one I love more at this point, they're ex aequo) Light Bringer Iron Gold Red Rising Morning Star
Im about to finish dark age today so Im glad ill have this podcast waiting for me once I finish lightbringer. Thank you both for more great booktok content
I saw the change in Lysander most in his reaction to overseeing the destruction of the garter. In Dark Age, the most redeemable thing about his was his sympathy / respect for the civilians destroyed in the wake of war. His cause at that time was to stop as much suffering as he can in any way he can. When he sacks the garter, he officialy becomes what he swore to destroy. A powerhungry dictator who sees every life as a disposable means to his idea of Utopia.
Atlas being to Atlantia what Aja is to the sovereign is kinda underselling him. Was Atalantia not just a means to an end to him? He planned to toss her aside if Lysander were to ally with him
Going off your empire strikes back analogy I actually thought this book was sort of like a revenge of the sith if anakin kills obi Wan. Specifically at the end with their fight between Lysander and Cassius being a mirror to anakin and Obi-Wan
Loved the book, some of your opinions are absolutely crazy to me, but they are your experience so fair enough. My only head scratcher was Ajax dying off screen. He was supposed to be better than Aja who was THE best fighter in the book. 1. We never got to see him in a real fight 2. How did they kill him???? P.S. would be nice to see Diomedes really go all out in a fight scene
He was tactically outplayed. Ambushes do that to a mf. People of Aja’s level would have died the same way, but they ain’t confident enough to Run ahead & Risk the possibility of a ambush. Simple as that lmao.
I just started the Red Rising series based on your recommendations and how often you talk about it. I’m like 65-ish% of the way through the first book and overall, I think it’s pretty dope. Had a strong start, was a little meh for a hot minute, but now I’m getting into some hype stuff. Excited to get deeper into the series!
it defiantly gets better in the other books. i honestly consider the first book one of the weakest and i find book 2 and 5 my absolute favorites of the series.
Outside of the fact that without her POV Volga's 180 made no sense, what upset me even more is that I don't buy her leading the Obsidians ? She was just begining to be a warlord, I don't see why they would follow her after refusing to follow Sefi. Even if I loved the all Atlas reveal and the dual scene was AWESOME, I would have prefer for the Ascomani/Fa plot to never have been introduced and for them just to make a deal with Sefi at some point because I could see the Obsidian follow her, but not Volga. At least that's where I'm at now ! And again : we had enough villains to deal with anyway, Appolonius is wellll more compelling !
I finished Light Bringer yesterday and wow I loved it. Pierce Brown reminds me of the frontmen of the pop punk bands I loved as a teenager like he has that level of coolness. Thank you again Austin for being the catalyst for me picking up this series. Edit: it didn’t quite get a 10 from me because Golden Son is my 10 of the series and my second favourite book I’ve read in 2024
*SPOILERS* In regard to the Abomination’s involvement, it is revealed early on in Virginia’s POV that she has a source for intelligence within the Core that she is using to gain information on how to fight back against the Society. Though the identity of this source remains a mystery, there is a theory going around that this could be the Abomination. Due to the cloned version of the Jackal being raised under significantly different circumstances, we could see in Dark Age that this variant of Adrius did not completely share the same mindset as that of the original. Virginia herself states because this clone of her brother never knew their father he instead seeks her approval. To me this indicates that Pierce did not bring the Jackal back simply as a returning, fan favourite threat, but rather as a multidimensional antagonist that will have a much larger role to play, such as helping Virginia in order to gain that approval he seeks, or under the idea of the ‘enemy of my enemy is my friend,’ as Atalantia is currently attacking Luna in the hopes of taking that complete control they both seek from him. Wether or not this is true, we will have to wait and see when Red God comes out, which Pierce said he hopes to have ready by the end of 2024!
Just finished Lightbringer and realised that all the batshit crazy people names start with the letter A (Adrius, Apollonius, Aja, Atlantia, Atlas, Antonia).
In one of the earlier books they brought up Harmony creating an army of reds like Darrow and that has never been brought up again. When I was reading this I was thinking the army in the Rim was going to be an army of these like super reds.
Austin, since you enjoyed Red Rising Saga. It's TIME to read the other Lightbringer or Night Angel Trilogy. Brent Weeks has some of the best action. Pitch for Night Angel cinematic action scenes staring a venomisque assassin mentored by a tormented legend.
I really liked this book glad you guys not only enjoyed but were honest and genuine about your opinions. One of the reasons I follow you guys! I think it comes through that you guys dont bullshit about your opinions. Also had a thought but the potential user rambler rating system! How about an optional feature that blocks a rating until youve read the book and input your own review? That was its completely independent and uninfluenced, the averages will be a bit more nuts lol. Just a thought, anyway appreciate you guys!
I've been excited to watch this review at the end of my work day... Lysander... I would like his end to be excruciatingly painful and highly satisfying.👌 Just saying... I don't think I am asking for too much. RED GOD can't be in my hands fast enough.📖🥰 🐺Omnis Vir Lupus🐺
Haven’t watched the review yet but had quite a few grievances with the book and I wonder if your review agrees with mine. (Spoilers) 1. The jackal- felt like pierce brown wrote himself into a corner by reintroducing him into dark age leaving Darrow and allies an impossible task of defeating both him and Lysander etc. There was literally no mention of him in lightbringer seemingly like pierce decided to ignore the issue so he didn’t make the book overly complex, which is fine but then why introduce him in the first place? 2. Darrow - as usual an awesome and complex character, however felt like there was too much “plot armour” surrounding him which started for me at the end of dark age when Cassius appears and saves him. Diminishing the danger he faces as it felt he could never really die no matter how bad of a situation he was in. Also the whole training arc with Darrow and Cassius didn’t really make sense, pierce had previously mentioned that Darrow in dark age and Ada from the original trilogy (who was heralded as the best fighter of her generation) would be equal in a fight. Does this now mean that Cassius in loghtbringer is better than both after drinking his way through the solar system and fighting pirates for 10 years whilst Darrow fought a war from the frontlines??? Didn’t make much sense. 3. Lysander - thought he could be a great villain believing completely in what he was doing by making the golds Shepard’s for the people and believing he was fighting for a noble cause. The corruption of his morales throughout the book imo takes away the nobleness of his character that was built in the previous books. All that said and done the book is still very enjoyable, can’t wait to hear what u guys think of it
Not sure If I missed this whilst reading, but does it explicitly confirm anywhere what happened to Rhona? As far as I'm aware last thing that happened to her was she was taken to the Morning Star on Mercury, but it's not confirmed whether or not she was dead. Was half expecting her to sabotage the LightBringer, similar to what Sevro was doing on the dockyards of Venus.
It’s about 98% confirmed she’s dead. She was still on a transport to the morning star when the EMP went off. Even if she didn’t die when it fell out of the sky, it’s unlikely she would have survived long enough to get medical care in the slaughter. It’s possible she shows up again, but seems unlikely since she wasn’t mentioned again in this book
@@dogsrockworlds Yeah I found it weird how little she was mentioned tbh. Maybe we'll get some proper closure in Red God, perhaps when Darrow and Kieran meet again.
People who claim that they learned Fa was an agent of Atlas prove that they didn’t read dark age. Ephram learns about it in DA and it’s sad to see people taking shots at this book because they didn’t pay attention.
I died laughing at the completely off review shade thrown on Shallan 😂 100% agree. Servos mpd arc was the appropriate length. Lol yall are petty for that though 🤣
Cassius dying is not the surprise similar to roques betrayal not being the surprise. It’s HOW Cassius dies which was the shock. It’s HOW roque betrayed Darrow that was a shock. These things were clearly telegraphed, but the manner in which the occurred was the reason in which I was shocked and emotional
@@2ToRamble very fair. I think one of the main problems in pierces writing is the over-saturation of betrayal and shock. You guys mentioned this and i agree. Doesn’t take too much away for me and I still love this series. Exited for red god and hopefully it pays off in full
@@charliemessano2128 Absolutely can't wait for Red God! And Golden SOn will forever hold a 5 star for me, -- I usually say Oathbringer, Sword of Kaigen, or Golden Son as my favorite depending on the day
Ahah I just watched your DA review so I was waiting to see if you'll follow through with your 0/10 promise x) But really : I feel the exact same about Volga !
After watching the first 30 seconds(having not read Lightbringer and only watching the spoiler free portion) I agree Rich 0/10 how could you do Volga like that Pierce? Edit: pre reading Lightbringer I have the same rankings as Austin for the first 5 Golden Son and Dark Age both at this point are peak Red Rising.
Not even a gripe about the books at all but when starting the 4th book I figured the second series would heavily focus on their children but am kind of disappointed 3 books in they still don’t play a major role.
Disagree with your section on Emotional Impact. The part which broke me about Cassius’ death was not that it wasn’t a surprise…it was that you knew it was coming and you were dreading it. The contrast between sevro and Cassius in the ship the entire book painted a perfect picture to Darrow of “hey, Sevro is not actually that great of a friend and even though you love him, the friend you need - your actual best friend is Cassius” And you know he’s gonna die. Then he dies. And it sucks. Agreed on all of your other points for the book. Nice job!
We covered him more in the worldbuilding section (toward the end) - but tried to fit in as many characters as we could - touched on him in chatacters (maybe not enough!)
@@2ToRambleyeah just me personally i would have preferred more focus on him in the characters section especially for the impact he had on the story and lysander
Your issues with Sevro in this book annoyed me even in Golden Son. I didn't mind him much in Red Rising, but from then on, I just can't really stand him when he's on the page.
"I fear a man who believes in good. For he can excuse any evil." Fun quote from dark age that perfectly describes Lysander.
Great meme. That's not true, though. Cynicism is the thing people use to excuse evil. Belief in good makes it harder to do any evil. Because you also have to believe in the good of the people you're doing evil to.
For me the best 2 moments were Darrow coming out of the beast covered in blood and throwing his speech reclaiming his Ashvar as an obsidian, EPIC. And Cassius…don’t-” I warn.
“I must. I am Cassius Bellona, son of Tiberius, son of Julia, brother of Darrow, Morning Knight of the Solar Republic, and my honor remains.”
Then he rushes forward.
How can they not feel anything there? I cried and felt full of pride and sorrow because he is facing his son/brother and leaving in the highest note possible, did I saw it coming? Yes. Did it change the impact? Not at all
Fair!
That’s it!
The Breath of Stone….do I need to say any more
My favourite scene in the book is where Darrow goes on this huge tangent to the Daughters of Athena to justify his actions and convince them of the bigger picture, and Diomedes is like "Yeah you're technically right, go ahead and kill me".
Loved that moment
I think one of my favorite action sequences is the Fa Ashvar fight. The bashing of the blades, “confess” over and over, Darrow figuring out his new duel wield form, OH MY LORD so cool
So interesting how you reacted to Cassius’ death coz I was a crying mess for days. In fact no character death in any book, movie or tv show has ever hit me that hard, and I’ve read and watched a lot of them and rarely ever cry. When I really think about his life and all that he’s been through there’s just a sort of sorrow that engulfs me because he was a man who was lonely and lost for most of his life but was so desperately trying to be a good person. His story really felt tragic to me and I really wanted him to have a happily ever after, considering he lost his family, friends, everything. He was definitely my favorite character in the series and knowing that we’re gonna experience red god without him in it makes me very upset.
Yes, you summed that up perfectly. There's such a sense of a life cut short just when he was finding his way. His had been such a lonely, sad life. He lost his twin (which, I did feel his rage at Darrow for Julian's death was a weak plot point. It's the Institute. It's the Hunger Games on steroids. It was a completey unfair set up, kill or be killed. HE killed his opponent. How is he any better than Darrow then?) Anyway, he had been through so much, lost so much, betrayed his dearest friends in the worst possible way, Lysander turned out to be like an Obi/Anakin relationship gone equally wrong, and JUST when he started to turn his life around and find some small amount of love and mended relationships and all the potential we could have had of the Three Musketeers back together again, it gets cut short. The little pissant kills him.
I am Cassius Bellona. Son of Tiberius, son of Julia, brother of Darrow. Morning knight of the Solar Republic. And my honour remains!
This broke me
There wasn’t more for Cassius to do???? Bro got the Morning Knight title again and he could’ve been fighting alongside Darrow on Mars against Atlantia. He started a new bond with Lyria. He was getting along with Sevro towards the end. We didn’t get to see him fall in love with the right woman who loves him back. Idk how you can possibly say this guy’s story was over.
I did think there was going to be a romance between Cassius and Lyria
@@Aristogonian Cassius way older and that dynamic wasn’t romantic at all bro
@@reallifeshisui6644 Why is the age gap a limiting factor? Lyria was in her early 20s, Cassius in his mid 30s, both consenting adults. I think their relationship could easily be interpreted as flirtatious, even if that wasn’t the intention.
@@Aristogonian idk about easily. You’d have to be the type of person to think that Zuko and katara should’ve been a couple instead of aang if you think they had romantic vibes. Her finding him to be handsome was more related to the constant joke that Cassius is very good looking rather than her wanting to be with him or something. Cassius was still hung over the pink that wanted Diomedes instead
All you mention is secondary. He got what he longed for the most: redemption, forgiveness. He's no longer the villain, he finally stood on the right place. Of course he could've stuck around, but I think his death was greatly placed.
Cassius' death was predictable, but it still broke me. Then again, I didn't buy his death in Iron Gold so I never mourned him
Cassius room scene tied all together and messed me up for a couple weeks, that decade of isolation with everything within your grasp
I hear "Red God" and I immediately think "Not Kelsier all over again..."
Facts. By the end of Dark Age, I thought Darrow might finally become villanish. Now I'm afraid about him sacrificing. Also, the fact that his character is almost closed and that now we have multiple POVs...
Really gotta call Richards commentary on Jupiter into question as they never were on Jupiter and while making landfall they had both volcanic and sea biomes lol.
Idk man, if you arent getting these details then you really just arent reading very closely, because these worlds are pretty starkly different. Id agree that PB doesn't spend a lot of page count on worldbuilding into the details, but these broad strokes are very there and I dont really find it to be fair or accurate commentary that the planets are just non descript
It honestly sometimes feels like they (especially Rich) only care about the action scenes in books. Rich literally says he only started caring once the action started (200 pages). While it ( the whole Phobos part) was probably the least interesting part of the entire book from the narrative and character perspective, the most interesting part of that whole exchange was the anxiety Pierce Brown gave me when I saw there are no more Virginia chapters past 34 and that's it. Pretty much nothing of value happened there apart that Ajax died whose entire existence was pointless to begin with.
I felt like I lost a friend. Cassius’s death definitely messed me up 😭
Atlas is definetley my favorite villain in red rising. Closely followed by Apollonius
I sometimes don't know what Apollonius is...
@@BlackHand531 That's what makes me love him even more ahah
I loved the direction Atlas was going as a villain. Then they just made him loyal to the Society and order. I thought there was so much more to him than that to just have him killed off.
I think Cassius deaths was hinted at a mile away. That scene where he was bonding with Darrow was just too happy for it to last, and if there was an important character to kill off it would be him because we know it’s not Sevro.
I think Diomedes, while being a more static character, did have a bit of a character arc. It was just more subtle. Being around Darrow helped change his point of view on why you wage war and how the hierarchy of colors failed. His values haven’t changed, but his perspectives have and he’s stepping into his role a leader a bit more.
I really like Diomedes. He’s the man Lysander thinks himself to be, but isn’t. When push comes to shove, Diomedes made efforts for unity. Diomedes aimed to usher in an era of peace. Diomedes works to be a shepherd. All things Lysander claimed he wanted, convinced himself he wanted. Yet it was Lysander who betrayed the budding triumvirate, murdered Cassius to seize control of an army, and in the end, is aiming for power.
In the other two books, I got the impression that Lysander was trying to be Darrow, his childhood hero, but for the golds. In this book, Diomedes is a better foil. I think the fact that Diomedes does change his perspective and is willing to listen to others, take responsibility for this failings, and do so without compromising his core values is another way they differ. Apologies for the length. I had thoughts.
Very true, great point
I was pleasantly surprised when the Moon Lords came around to Darrow's side fairly quickly. I was worried it would turn into another "Darrow bad because past" plot, which he did have coming for some things but for other (*cough* Sevro *cough*) it got a bit tiring. I mean Sevro dude the Society will butcher your remaining children if Darrow loses quit knocking the guy for trying to put an end to them. For the Moon Lords they're view of Darrow is still sour, but he destroyed their docks as a strategic act of war. The Society literally nuked one of their moons out of existence to prove a point, not to mention what Lieslander would do to them. If anything the Moon Lords seeing reason was a twist I didn't see coming but appreciated. Finally, some statesmen that aren't complete imbeciles or psychopaths
Pierce said in an interview that the beginning of LB used to be a Sevro PoV of him hunting Atlas on Luna (on the behalf of Abominadrius) before he scrapped the idea.
This book instantly became my favorite RR book, and that’s saying something. Ashvar is the best dual scene I’ve ever read.
Oo what’s your ranking?
@@2ToRamble
1) Light Bringer
2a) Dark Age
2b) Golden Son (2a and 2b always alternate).
4) Morning Star
5) Red Rising
6) Iron Gold
You guys may not be willing to show or admit it, but I can tell that your relationship as friends is great one.
By far what draws me in part to your videos is more the two of you than the books. It won't be long until your channel explodes in subscriptions. Keep up the great work and spectacular entertainment!
Thank you!
please don't mistake friendship with pity
I cried with Cassius ‘if it must be guilt that drags you down, brother, I will be your milestone’
SPOILERS
I knew Cassius was going to die (I spoiled myself but I think I would have guessed anyway with the whole Brother talk too), but I still cried, even more so with Darrow's reaction to his death. I don't think PB intended to really surprise us, but even if you see it coming you've spent this entire book with him and Darrow, you fell in love with him again and then you've got that Darrow thought of "But I just got him back!" and they've wasted 10 years ! PB said this was the most emotional death he had to write and I agree. Until now the one that got me the most was Ragnar's but I didn't actually cried for Ragnar (I was close but I didn't), here I did
Pierce also said, that he cried while writing Cassius death scene
@@vi.g.708 Yes I think he said it was the most emotional death he had to write
I just found this channel last week and cant watch everything fast enough 😄I happen to have no friends in real life who love fantasy/Sci-if the way I do, so it’s really fun to find a channel like this! Appreciate you both!
🙏🙏 THANK YOU!
Agree on Lyria, i like her but i was really curious to see where the parasite plot line lead to and to what abilities it would give her. A decent amount of page time was spent building it up and then their was no pay off. I was so confused when they got rid of it and for a couple chapters i was thinking, ok well maybe they lied to her and left it in for some ulterior motive but then when it became apparent that that didnt happen it just felt like a completely pointless thing to include in the book.
To piggyback off the comment above/below (idk where it will be after i post lol) me, you guys have become my favorite booktube channel and i love the long form in depth discussions you have about books. My friend group arent readers so it is nice to have a place to go where i can feel like a part of a community to discuss these things. Keep doing what your doing and eventually you guys will be at the top of the booktuber food chain.
Felt very similarly to you - and thanks a bunch, super glad you enjoy, we’ll keep at it!
My exact feelings in this plot line
I think that half the lyria chapter could have been replaced with Volga chapter to explain how she got to Fa's side so hard (to the point of killing for him)
That wouldve been a great addition!
Yeees that was my thoughts too ! I guess maybe Brown didn't do it because we already got Fa's storyline with Lysander but still, Volga's change was way to abrupt and made no sense without her POV, it's my biggest complain about this book
As much plot as this book has, the characters definitely took the front seat. Now that's not to say characters haven't steered the plot in the previous books, but this book feels contained. Like it is meant to set up relationships moving into the big world ending plot. To me it makes sense that this book is so contained. It feels like a worthy successor to IG and DA in its scope, but also in how the characters have developed. IG feels to me like it was intended to flesh out the characters considering how little plot actually happens in that book. DA is the opposite, focusing on the overarching plot of "take back mercury" and the politics leading to the day of red doves. To me it felt like we needed this tight knit, contained, and well crafted story to set us up for RG.
Sure this book has little effect on the overall plot, but the characters' arcs take the stage. I don't think this book was ever intended to be a crazy bombastic plot with world ending stakes, or if it was, it was probably in the previous drafts.
IMO this book is what the series desperately needed. A return to form. A long deep breath. The calm before the storm...
Great take!
"How dare [the author(s)] not listen to you after the book was published."
what every negative goodreads reviewers expect authors to do, unironically and without any forethought.
Pierce Brown was on Mike's book reviews channel a few months ago he said red god probably is not coming out in 2024.
Ahh, thats ok - we get Stormlight in 2024 and possibly Red God in 2025
oh ive been WAITING for this + thank you for the callback richard
oh 2 7s huh? no worries, thats fine. richard you are bald + austin idk your beard is bald? that one doesnt really work but i hope you are still slightly insulted
😂😂
1:18:00
Counterpoint, Cassius's death does dramatically affect the story because he knew about Eidmi. Lysander being the only one to know about and have access to Eidmi is huge. I have no idea how the story is gonna end, but such a devastating weapon could be the thing that single-handedly ensures Lysander's victory, if the story was anything goes of course, I'd say that carries as much weight as Fitchner's guidance of the Darrow and the other Sons.
Potential plot twist, Eidmi doesn’t actually do anything and the weapon is the fear it instills. Could make sense being the Fear Knight is the one who had it.
@@TheeLavv Definitely could be more to it. The Fear Knight also died with a smirk on his face.
I finished this book 12 hours ago (first read through).
I laughed more and cried more than any of the others.
Laughing at Cassius pointing at his chiseled jaw when volga visits (picturing the gigachad image)
And the pain/sorrow that racks Darrow over Cassius' death hurt me a ton.
I felt the same "burnout" of death in dark age. Here felt better personally and idk why.
Anyway, red god can not come soon enough. I hate catching up on current active series lol
I don't know if you caught it but it's implied that Virginia's source of information about Luna is the Abomination !
That being said : I agree that like the Figment, this might be a choice that PB regrets. I loved DA but my complaint about it was that PB introduced too many knew villains and I feared it was too much, and I think it's proving to be true :/
I LOVED the scenes between Darrow and Cassius after Fa died. It was so sweet and beautiful and kind and it was the scene I was DYING for since Golden Son. I wanted their reunion and reconciliation and a return to the brotherhood they had in the institute. I yearned for them to be brothers again. And it finally happened. But you know what? I have been trained by Pierce Brown. I KNEW that this scene that I had been begging for… signed Cassius’s death warrant. I knew he was going to die before the book’s end. And the way that it happened ruined me
I think it’s interesting that as Lysander has chosen his path. He isn’t able to use to the Minds eye. While Darrow is able to now sink into his Breath of Stone by accepting who he is.
Oo that is very neat!
We'll see in red god if cassius' sacrifice has any meaningful effect, other than forcing lysander to choose the dark side. At the moment, it seems he should have just left to warn darrow about the bioweapon. Atlas was an incredible villain, and valdir the fucking unshorned on phobos was great. It's going to be a painful wait.
Great book , never expected book stated as a light YA could become one of the best space opera i ever read.
I was surprised on the depth of this story is crazy, im really impressed how one person how can write such complex characters, only Brandon Sanderson impressed me before with being able to juggle such well with lore and worldbuilding.
So I finished Light Bringer today, and I was wondering if it was just me not getting it because everyone was so hyped about this book and I was like : it's a good book, there's some great scenes, but it's nothing compared to Dark Age... Your ratings make me feel less alone thank you ! I think right now my (unpopular) rating of all the books is :
Golden Son/ Dark Age (can't decide which one I love more at this point, they're ex aequo)
Light Bringer
Iron Gold
Red Rising
Morning Star
Yeah, when he said he was writting a book for Pax I was like "Okay... he's gonna die by the end then !"
Im about to finish dark age today so Im glad ill have this podcast waiting for me once I finish lightbringer. Thank you both for more great booktok content
Great timing - thanks for watching our stuff!
@@2ToRamble Just finished LB, time to start this podcast. Congrats on 20k subscribers you guys!
Thanks a bunch!!@@austinoverthere8898
You 2 are brilliant to listen to, very glad I discovered your channel through the Library Viking as you have fantastic content
Ahh! Thanks very much!! Johan is great
I saw the change in Lysander most in his reaction to overseeing the destruction of the garter. In Dark Age, the most redeemable thing about his was his sympathy / respect for the civilians destroyed in the wake of war. His cause at that time was to stop as much suffering as he can in any way he can. When he sacks the garter, he officialy becomes what he swore to destroy. A powerhungry dictator who sees every life as a disposable means to his idea of Utopia.
So no different then Darrow and his bitch?
Atlas being to Atlantia what Aja is to the sovereign is kinda underselling him. Was Atalantia not just a means to an end to him? He planned to toss her aside if Lysander were to ally with him
Fair!
Going off your empire strikes back analogy I actually thought this book was sort of like a revenge of the sith if anakin kills obi Wan. Specifically at the end with their fight between Lysander and Cassius being a mirror to anakin and Obi-Wan
Interesting parallel!
Yes!! Been waiting for this one!
Thanks guys! Been looking forward!
Loved the book, some of your opinions are absolutely crazy to me, but they are your experience so fair enough.
My only head scratcher was Ajax dying off screen. He was supposed to be better than Aja who was THE best fighter in the book. 1. We never got to see him in a real fight 2. How did they kill him????
P.S. would be nice to see Diomedes really go all out in a fight scene
He was tactically outplayed. Ambushes do that to a mf. People of Aja’s level would have died the same way, but they ain’t confident enough to Run ahead & Risk the possibility of a ambush. Simple as that lmao.
I just started the Red Rising series based on your recommendations and how often you talk about it. I’m like 65-ish% of the way through the first book and overall, I think it’s pretty dope. Had a strong start, was a little meh for a hot minute, but now I’m getting into some hype stuff. Excited to get deeper into the series!
it defiantly gets better in the other books. i honestly consider the first book one of the weakest and i find book 2 and 5 my absolute favorites of the series.
It’s only up from here…except when you have to read about Roack. Fuck Roack.
Outside of the fact that without her POV Volga's 180 made no sense, what upset me even more is that I don't buy her leading the Obsidians ? She was just begining to be a warlord, I don't see why they would follow her after refusing to follow Sefi. Even if I loved the all Atlas reveal and the dual scene was AWESOME, I would have prefer for the Ascomani/Fa plot to never have been introduced and for them just to make a deal with Sefi at some point because I could see the Obsidian follow her, but not Volga. At least that's where I'm at now ! And again : we had enough villains to deal with anyway, Appolonius is wellll more compelling !
I finished Light Bringer yesterday and wow I loved it. Pierce Brown reminds me of the frontmen of the pop punk bands I loved as a teenager like he has that level of coolness.
Thank you again Austin for being the catalyst for me picking up this series.
Edit: it didn’t quite get a 10 from me because Golden Son is my 10 of the series and my second favourite book I’ve read in 2024
Yes Gecko! Golden Son on top 🙏
And so glad you got into this series
*SPOILERS*
In regard to the Abomination’s involvement, it is revealed early on in Virginia’s POV that she has a source for intelligence within the Core that she is using to gain information on how to fight back against the Society. Though the identity of this source remains a mystery, there is a theory going around that this could be the Abomination. Due to the cloned version of the Jackal being raised under significantly different circumstances, we could see in Dark Age that this variant of Adrius did not completely share the same mindset as that of the original. Virginia herself states because this clone of her brother never knew their father he instead seeks her approval. To me this indicates that Pierce did not bring the Jackal back simply as a returning, fan favourite threat, but rather as a multidimensional antagonist that will have a much larger role to play, such as helping Virginia in order to gain that approval he seeks, or under the idea of the ‘enemy of my enemy is my friend,’ as Atalantia is currently attacking Luna in the hopes of taking that complete control they both seek from him.
Wether or not this is true, we will have to wait and see when Red God comes out, which Pierce said he hopes to have ready by the end of 2024!
Absolutely - going to hold complete judgement until we see where Pierce brings this plotline - I trust him!
Been waiting for this review for sooooo long
One of my favorites but I don’t think anything can beat Golden Sun.
You guys gotta do an episode on Empire of Silence, I'd love to see your opinions in comparison to Red Rising. Its also just an amazing sci-fi book.
Its our current discord Book Club read-a-long! We will be having a video out sometime this month 😁
Just finished Lightbringer and realised that all the batshit crazy people names start with the letter A (Adrius, Apollonius, Aja, Atlantia, Atlas, Antonia).
*me, austin, reading this comment, sweating*
@@2ToRamble 🤣🤣 also in the sons of ares prequel there is a villian charcter named Arturius au verdan.
I was waiting for that 0/10, Richard, and it did not disappoint 😂
In one of the earlier books they brought up Harmony creating an army of reds like Darrow and that has never been brought up again. When I was reading this I was thinking the army in the Rim was going to be an army of these like super reds.
Austin, since you enjoyed Red Rising Saga. It's TIME to read the other Lightbringer or Night Angel Trilogy. Brent Weeks has some of the best action. Pitch for Night Angel cinematic action scenes staring a venomisque assassin mentored by a tormented legend.
Amazing review guys!
I really liked this book glad you guys not only enjoyed but were honest and genuine about your opinions. One of the reasons I follow you guys! I think it comes through that you guys dont bullshit about your opinions.
Also had a thought but the potential user rambler rating system! How about an optional feature that blocks a rating until youve read the book and input your own review? That was its completely independent and uninfluenced, the averages will be a bit more nuts lol.
Just a thought, anyway appreciate you guys!
Great thought - Ill shoot this over to Richard and may have to run this by our dev - we’re working on getting a Rambler rating site in the works!
ITS HERE! FINALLY!
😁
I've been excited to watch this review at the end of my work day...
Lysander... I would like his end to be excruciatingly painful and highly satisfying.👌 Just saying... I don't think I am asking for too much.
RED GOD can't be in my hands fast enough.📖🥰
🐺Omnis Vir Lupus🐺
Question (spoiler):
If the edimid was used on darrow, would both the red and gold versions kill him? Or neither?
Atlas is to Red Rising as Tywin is to A Song of Fire & Ice.
Ahhh l see what you mean
********SPOILER*****************
Not feeling anything for Cassius’s death is inhuman. Jokes of course but damn man, that had me fucked up for weekends
Yes I been waiting for this!!!!!
Haven’t watched the review yet but had quite a few grievances with the book and I wonder if your review agrees with mine. (Spoilers)
1. The jackal- felt like pierce brown wrote himself into a corner by reintroducing him into dark age leaving Darrow and allies an impossible task of defeating both him and Lysander etc. There was literally no mention of him in lightbringer seemingly like pierce decided to ignore the issue so he didn’t make the book overly complex, which is fine but then why introduce him in the first place?
2. Darrow - as usual an awesome and complex character, however felt like there was too much “plot armour” surrounding him which started for me at the end of dark age when Cassius appears and saves him. Diminishing the danger he faces as it felt he could never really die no matter how bad of a situation he was in.
Also the whole training arc with Darrow and Cassius didn’t really make sense, pierce had previously mentioned that Darrow in dark age and Ada from the original trilogy (who was heralded as the best fighter of her generation) would be equal in a fight. Does this now mean that Cassius in loghtbringer is better than both after drinking his way through the solar system and fighting pirates for 10 years whilst Darrow fought a war from the frontlines??? Didn’t make much sense.
3. Lysander - thought he could be a great villain believing completely in what he was doing by making the golds Shepard’s for the people and believing he was fighting for a noble cause. The corruption of his morales throughout the book imo takes away the nobleness of his character that was built in the previous books.
All that said and done the book is still very enjoyable, can’t wait to hear what u guys think of it
Curious to see your responses to the review! Definitely points we agree on with you as you’ll see 🤝
Not sure If I missed this whilst reading, but does it explicitly confirm anywhere what happened to Rhona? As far as I'm aware last thing that happened to her was she was taken to the Morning Star on Mercury, but it's not confirmed whether or not she was dead. Was half expecting her to sabotage the LightBringer, similar to what Sevro was doing on the dockyards of Venus.
It’s about 98% confirmed she’s dead. She was still on a transport to the morning star when the EMP went off. Even if she didn’t die when it fell out of the sky, it’s unlikely she would have survived long enough to get medical care in the slaughter. It’s possible she shows up again, but seems unlikely since she wasn’t mentioned again in this book
@@dogsrockworlds Yeah I found it weird how little she was mentioned tbh. Maybe we'll get some proper closure in Red God, perhaps when Darrow and Kieran meet again.
People who claim that they learned Fa was an agent of Atlas prove that they didn’t read dark age. Ephram learns about it in DA and it’s sad to see people taking shots at this book because they didn’t pay attention.
What an incredibly beautiful book. My favorite of the saga.
I died laughing at the completely off review shade thrown on Shallan 😂 100% agree. Servos mpd arc was the appropriate length. Lol yall are petty for that though 🤣
😂 appreciate it
Cassius dying is not the surprise similar to roques betrayal not being the surprise. It’s HOW Cassius dies which was the shock. It’s HOW roque betrayed Darrow that was a shock. These things were clearly telegraphed, but the manner in which the occurred was the reason in which I was shocked and emotional
Thats fair, Rich and I feel the same about other plotlines in twists that didnt surprise us as well
@@2ToRamble very fair. I think one of the main problems in pierces writing is the over-saturation of betrayal and shock. You guys mentioned this and i agree. Doesn’t take too much away for me and I still love this series. Exited for red god and hopefully it pays off in full
@@2ToRamble also do you still hold golden son as your favorite book ever?
@@charliemessano2128 Absolutely can't wait for Red God! And Golden SOn will forever hold a 5 star for me, -- I usually say Oathbringer, Sword of Kaigen, or Golden Son as my favorite depending on the day
@@2ToRamble I appreciate you guys actually responding to comments. Great channel have been listening a lot recently
Its SUH LEN EE US and AH KAR EE… respect the cofounders my goodman 💜
My prayers were answered! We definitely need a new conversation with Pierce Brown (wink wink) 😂
RR rankings
1. Lightbringer
2. Morning star
3. Iron gold
4. Golden son
5. Dark age
6. Red rising
Wtf
Ahah I just watched your DA review so I was waiting to see if you'll follow through with your 0/10 promise x)
But really : I feel the exact same about Volga !
Virginia also keeps referencing a unnamed contact on Luna that I’m pretty sure is supposed to be the abomination.
We think so too!
After watching the first 30 seconds(having not read Lightbringer and only watching the spoiler free portion) I agree Rich 0/10 how could you do Volga like that Pierce?
Edit: pre reading Lightbringer I have the same rankings as Austin for the first 5 Golden Son and Dark Age both at this point are peak Red Rising.
Not even a gripe about the books at all but when starting the 4th book I figured the second series would heavily focus on their children but am kind of disappointed 3 books in they still don’t play a major role.
Fair!
Can you please republish this, but give the book a perfect ten and only say nice things about it? Thank you.
😂😂
This is great!
I wish you could do book betting like you can do sports betting cause my money is on Darrow dying in the last book lol
Lol
Red God... Jackle kills Lysander, the chemical wpns kill obsidian to save atalantia. Mustang kills Jackle, reaper kills atalantia, saving pax on Mars.
Oo Jackal killing Lysander 👀
I give this book 10/10
I think they're looking past the fact that Darrow is also abolishing the color society thing. New kids arnt born with Sigels
I want the gym content - 2nd Channel: 2ToLift
2ToRack 😮💨😮💨
For whatever reason I thought there was 1 Volga POV lol
yeah i really dont know why lyria is still a thing. I always skip her chapters on rereads
I really enjoyed lightbringer. Spoiler
My largest complaint is there's a weapon that'll kill colors? Holy mcguffin
That point did throw us for a loop - curious to see how it pans out
Come on guys, there is no way in the world to not give this book the best rating of the series.
Don’t get too complicated 😃
😁
Fà made me think of the mandarin in Iron man 3, obviously stronger but still hahhaha
Hey, ull should read malazan next!
Please do not let him pronounce "Apollonius" like that ever again.
Wish I could know about all the twists like Richard 🙄🙄🙄
😁😂
Disagree with your section on Emotional Impact. The part which broke me about Cassius’ death was not that it wasn’t a surprise…it was that you knew it was coming and you were dreading it. The contrast between sevro and Cassius in the ship the entire book painted a perfect picture to Darrow of “hey, Sevro is not actually that great of a friend and even though you love him, the friend you need - your actual best friend is Cassius”
And you know he’s gonna die. Then he dies. And it sucks.
Agreed on all of your other points for the book. Nice job!
When is shadow rising review coming?
Still reading - coming hopefully soon
Re the abomination. Who’s virgina getting her info on traitors from that she doesn’t like in that chapter but needs must…
Am i tripping or did they barely touch on Atlas au Raa ?
We covered him more in the worldbuilding section (toward the end) - but tried to fit in as many characters as we could - touched on him in chatacters (maybe not enough!)
@@2ToRambleyeah just me personally i would have preferred more focus on him in the characters section especially for the impact he had on the story and lysander
Fair point, our bad!@@ernstaugustin3392
4 books is tetralogy
Ahh thankya
Ramblers 4 life!
🫡
But is he the Turtle Bear?
What is this lingo lol
@@2ToRambleThe Luíseach
The more I think about this book, the less I like it. Mr. Brown Iron Man 3 Mandarin'ed Volsung Fà!
Your issues with Sevro in this book annoyed me even in Golden Son. I didn't mind him much in Red Rising, but from then on, I just can't really stand him when he's on the page.