Not only is this a bad video, but it has in turn made me a worse person for listening to it. I no longer return my mother's calls, tip waiters, return shopping carts or tell my cats they are precious little babies. I hope you're proud of what you've done.
Name of the wind felt like listening to that one friend who is a liar and you know it but you don’t want to call them out so you just go along with the story. And that friend ends the story with “and then everyone stood up and clapped because I was so AWESOME”
I don't agree because it was actually a great book with actual great writing. I'm looking it at from for a literature point of view as opposed to whatever you guys wanted out of it which I don't know. Honestly the guys who did this review wasn't that clear on what they wanted from the book. Name of the wind was to me a breathe of fresh air amongst all of the other epic fantasy trope. I'm not saying it didn't have flaws it did. But I read it as a character study as opposed to wheel of time or saunderson works which is usually bland in my opinion. I think that Rothfuss is actually a better literature writer than a fantasy author in the genre that he's writing.
@@zodlord5669 I didn’t want anything out of the book I had 0 expectations other than I heard it’s a great book! I was excited. It was half way through I realized I couldn’t stand it.
@@sashakeiv2703 that's fine I read wheel of time up to the halfway point and realize it was a LOTR rippoff and couldn't stand that. I had 0 expectations too. I like Rothfuss because it was actually different, the writing and prose were actually good. His connections to Dena were actually interesting regardless if you agree with it or not. It was a character study wrapped up in a epic fantasy, which was interesting to me. I read literature. I don't read novels for all the dumb good guy vs bad guy crap. It was refreshing that Rothfuss made a flawed character.
I knew a Kvothe who had no car but lied about having a lot of cars. He told us a story about how he used the spinners on his car to cut fruit for a lady in the grocery store parking lot and she thanked them. And that’s just classic Kvothe.
Just when I think you can't be any dumber than disliking last Argument of Kings, you go and say this about Name of the Wind...AND TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF!
I’ve always hear the prose argument for this book and I don’t really get it (maybe because English is not my first language). I mean, don’t get me wrong, the prose was great, but then I read Oscar Wilde and it’s soooo far away it’s not even fair to compare. Basically what I’m saying is that not even the prose was enough to save this book for me haha
@@Usernameforsf Fair enough! For me it’s just his attention to word choice-and how he’s always hitting the right words and verbs to produce a kind of smooth, simple music on the page. It gives me this warm, come-listen-to-a-story-by-the-fire feeling. There’s great complex prose and great simple prose-this book is the latter.
@@Usernameforsf My own book is an attempt at complex prose-which runs the risk of turning purple…I won’t say if I succeeded or not because now that it’s out there in the world, it’s not really for me to decide, you know?
I'm gonna disagree with Richard on one thing... I think what Rothfuss was *trying* to convey is, the world just hates Kvothe, isn't he so noble and honorable for putting up with this. But with one notable exception, everything that ever goes wrong for him is only ever because he's an arrogant douche. Every problem he has is caused by him deliberately pissing people off because he can't stop treating everyone around him like they're beneath him, and the only good relationships he has are with people who are okay accepting that they are in fact beneath him.
@@2ToRamble It's not my favorite book...because Wise Man's Fear IS! You guys didn't really hate the BOOK, or you wouldn't have had such strong opinions about the details and have annotations marked to discuss, you just would have DNF'd it if the BOOK was bad. You can tell the book really had an effect on you both. What you hated was the story Kvothe is telling inside the "framed narrative" of the book, because you can't relate to the type of "fated love romance" person that Kvothe is, which certain types of people are (friendzoned ppl, simps, incels, Forrest Gump). He objectifies her because he sees her as his destiny. You guys, with your "significant others" and "practical relationships" don't deserve a wild thing like Denna because your neurotypical NPC brains are just like all the other 80% of normies that read books as a form of escapism, so when a real life hard-hitting giant lizard comes along and all you have is some realistic sympathetic magic, it becomes all too real and scary. Not some dragon slaying flight of fancy where the hero always gets the girl and slings fireballs around like candy and wouldn't even occur to him to get the dragon drunk first.
I’m upset that I had to put Oathbringer down to read this… I will say though I’m glad I read it so I can get the bastard thing off of my shelves and let an unwitting stranger be as equally disappointed by it 😂
Agreed. And as to their "adult Kvothe thinks so" as an argument, it's not as if everyone is a good person at 25 or whatever he is, and that we should take anything moral away from him
I don’t know if anyone had a similar experience but I listened to the name of the wind before reading and I think it added a lot to the story. It made side characters feel more realized and Kvoths journey from start to finish genuinely intrigued me. I didn’t fix the tension issues and the lackluster love plot but the audio really seemed to amplify the first time experience
It's funny because I love The Name of the Wind as much as Richard loves The First Law, and I hate The First Law as much as Richard hates The Name of the Wind.
since you too loved Oathbringer by brandon sanderson and i HATED IT and stopped reading stormlight archive completely. im sure i will love the name of the wind
When I’m thinking of archetypal bards for reference, the sweet spot for me is somewhere between Kvothe and Thom Merriland. Hoid is probably my favorite bard in fantasy, but in my mind he belongs in the same category as Robin Hobb’s Fool as something apart.
Mike's book reviews help keep me stay consistent with The Wheel of Time series. After every book I read, I go to his channel first. Big shout out to Mike. I wanted to love this book so much but I can't. I enjoyed parts of it, but one character manages to invoke so much frustration I want to put it down. Then the holes ... omg. Again, I wanted to love this series so much! But I was so overwhelmingly disappointed.
I feel like you saw what you were supposed to see but misunderstood. Because you’re right current day kvothe does agree with younger kvothe on things, but that’s the whole point, it’s his story that he’s telling, he’s not an unreliable narrator because he’s lying, but because it’s subjective to him. And your right everything bad does happen to him, because in his pride that it how he sees it. You’re right current kvothe is still super prideful and doesn’t see anything he really does wrong in his past, he’s also still super young in current times. So it lands with me that he still isn’t very mature and some people just don’t mature even thru their forties fifties. He’s laid out as the hero because he is the one telling the story to him, he’s the victim to himself he’s the one who overcomes everything. His pride absolutely is a flaw that continually gets him into bad situations but from his perspective is not his fault. As for the perspective on woman and the friend zone stuff/ the “lessons” I don’t think we’re meant to at all think he’s correct, the message isn’t meant to be one that you agree with. Hahah it’s almost more of a caution/this is bad. I take these types of things more of observations of what happens than a you should live like this. I think you’re letting your dislike of the book miss read the authors intentions but maybe I’m off. I think you’re going in with the assumption that current day kvothe is the finished hero product, and he’s not at all. And idk that seemed pretty clear to me on how he was telling his story. I get the boring stuff kind of but I loved the world the schooling stuff mostly, and the magic, the writing enough for it to not be an issue and I enjoy slow burns/ more of an observation of someone’s life, so wasn’t really boring to me. I think the message of the book is more of about the stories we tell about culture and history and ourselves, like with the Chandrians there’s one story telling them they are good and others bad, even with his traveling group, some people hate them and others love them, all dependent on stories that are told from different perspectives. I agree tho he doesn’t need to get to more of the super interesting parts of the world and kvothes stuff, like the current day stuff going on. Him getting kicked out of school. Killing a king. All the supposed cool stuff he did. He needs to get to it, he gets to some of it in the second book but more hahah Idk. But I think the whole lucking his way thru things is part of his actual story that again is part of that same point that even legends don’t live up to the expectation sometimes. Anyways bummed you guys didn’t like it but I also think you’re missing some things.
So as a writer a lesson I learned early on was that if I had to explain to my readers that they didn't "get" something, the issue wasnt them it was that I didn't do a good enough job converting my idea in the first place. It's not as thought these fellas are the first ones to take issue with kvoth and not feel the unreliable narrator is a good enough excuse to warrant it. Or to put it another way. "My character is supposed to be insufferable that's the point!" Okay...why would I want to read about someone who's insufferable and also hasn't changed? Just because it was on purpose doesn't mean it was a good idea.
@@mattparsons2045 totally agree with basically all of what you said, but I don’t think it’s a matter of they didn’t get it so I have to explain it, more so I think it’s taking the wrong perspective, like assuming current kvothe is the finished article so he must look back at his life and think of how dumb he was, no that’s the point he’s still prideful and is telling his own story so of course it favors him. That was my point I think they “got it” but just looked at it from the wrong perspective, and honestly Austin being set up with the expectations he did it’s easy to see why he would immediately take the view point of it’s just bad instead of maybe there something else the author is doing. And idk kvothe isn’t insufferable to me at all, he’s a trauma ridden closed off street smart kid. He’s very flawed. And I did root for him to make right decisions even if 7/10 times he didn’t. But that’s fine. I enjoyed the world and the magic and the characters, the friendships. The mysteries plenty. But going into it expecting him to be a virtuous hero, and when he’s not saying it’s bad, is on you and not the author.
I loved this book but I can appreciate the criticism. I feel that you are supposed to be frustrated by the character flaws of Kvothe and Denna. The part of me that easily suspends disbelief feels it was meant to be a overwrought narrative told by a jaded hero fallen. Its a story written for and rejected by cynics.
Ok, I’m only 3 minutes in but… this title genuinely has shocked me. I would have thought this was right up your alley! Looking forward to hearing your reasons
@@AndrewFrancisIlyrianif you think Kvothe is a Mary Sue, you really need to pay more attention. Yes, he's good at a lot of things skill-wise, but he also is reaaally flawed in many ways. He overestimates himself, which often gets him into trouble. He is overemotional and he really doesn't think things through, which often leads to disaster. He is really bad at communicating with other people and detecting what they're thinking and feeling, he often pisses other people off. While he is intelligent and has a lot of skills, he sucks at engaging with people and making well-thought out decisions.
@@CallmeJochem none of these ever cause him more strife than his other super awesome abilities cannot counter. Get whipped half to death? No matter, he'll use a magic potion. gets kidnapped by a faerie goddess? No matter, he'll fuck his way to freedom. Same with the ninja chicks. There is no problem too great for Kvothe to contrive his way out of.
Characterization (especially the prot as projection of male fantasy) and plot convenience are the most common complaints. Writing (above all) and lore are the most praised areas. Of course, your mileage will vary.
@AndrewFrancisIlyrian i meant the series is about a man who brings the world into complete chaos he can no lomger use magic and he has lost all music in his life. Yeah he solves most of the problems in the first to books but all his flaws are there and the books tell you multiple times that he is going to fail miserably and the end is inevitably a tragedy.
If Auri (the rooftop girl) is your favourite then there is an entire novel focused on her the Slow Regard of Silent Things! Although that one is not as well liked as name of the wind i think.
I loved "The Slow Regard of Silent Things." It's an odd story but a magical one. I looked at every object in my house differently for at least two weeks, lol. Also loved "The Narrow Road Between Desires." Bast is a wonderful character.
I think you guys completely misinterpreted the "message" of the book, it's framed as a tragedy and explicitly stated to be so, so Kvothe being an idiot with Denna and coming off as an incel isn't meant to be the message of the book, it's meant to be Kvothe being an idiot. Just because modern Kvothe hasn't grown up and/or can't admit his mistakes doesn't mean that's what Rothfuss think is correct. Also pride is for sure the cause of most of his problems, for example, half of his problems post coming to the University revolve around his struggle for money, meanwhile one of his best friends is a kind Aturan noble who would definitely help him out if he asked... Anyways to each their own, but I will say this is the most frustrating analysis I've ever watched and I disagree with every point except about the talent pipes scene
Rothfuss forgetting how MC t survived as a beggar in the part of his life is just lazy . If one has gone so low to beg to survive , and just a few months later becomes so proud he won't even ask a simple loan (that's easily repaid) was pure cringe.
Let's gooooo me toooooo. Reached the end and was like..."that's it?!?! What a meandering waste of my time." But agree with the favorite chapter part. There is one moment that almost brought me to tears.
Haven't watched the whole video yet, but I appreciate the different perspective. It was my favorite book 12 years ago but I definitely see where you guys are coming from, even if I disagree(d). There is a big part of book 2 that I hated more than you hated this, so I can empathize. It might be a cool idea to have someone on your show who loves the book as you are both fun "debaters" and this is a divisive one. The agreement here is fine too as is digging deeper and deeper into hate for the book.. but finding someone who might help you see some light from deep down in your hate hole would be cool too (and vice versa). Hate hole.. not sure if I regret that phrase now.
Lol definitely- we had someone on when we reviewed Malazan book 1 because it wasnt for us and that was great. Same with Fourth Wing when we collabed with Fantasy Fangirls!
Our opinions differ on this one, but here’s to hoping you guys will do The Wise Man’s Fear-DO IT FOR THE CONTENT!! 😂 (Watching you guys rumble/ramble about Kvothe’s forays with Felurian alone would make the video so very worth multiple viewings LMAO)
I havent read it for a few years, but Name of the Wind is one of the few books that I have re-read multiple times. There is something about the prose and the world that draws me in. The mystery of the Chandrian was intenswly interesting to me. Kvothe comes across, even as rhe innkeeper, as a perpetual victim and arrogant idiot who has no self reflection. So I am hugely intrigued as to why he is where he is, wallowing. What happened? And even more, can he have that character growth that he obviously needs after he finishes telling his story? There is so much potential, but this series often falls short. Its taking too long, there is so much time spent on building everything up that I fear the actual moment of action will never live up to it. Mystery is easier to create than living up to what has been set up. So many books fall so far short of it. I agree with a lot of your criticisms, yet the mystery still gets me 😅
I'm watching these at work and it's never a hard thing to get to the end 😂 also I've never had an interest of reading this book, even less so hearing the negatives, even less less LESS so watching Richard lower his rating in the review 😂😂😂 .25 decrease is the pettiness I love and deserve to see. Thank yall for the ramble ❤
I really enjoyed name of the wind when I read it. Funny enough, it was reading Wise Man’s Fear that made me kind of reconsider my thoughts on name of the wind a bit. I think I had trust that the story was going somewhere in the first book, and with that mostly gone it just became a little bit worse Edit: also I completely agree with the fedora tipping incel-like behavior of Kvoth…some of those lines made me cringe just as hard. Helps a little when I remember he’s like 15 at the time, though not as much when I remember it’s old Kvoth telling the story Also I 100% agree with your thoughts on the friend zone. Makes me roll my eyes anytime someone says they’re “trapped”. No you’re not - take a shower, get some life skills, be a good listener, be kind, be respectful. Ask her out, if she says no then move on. It’s tough to be rejected, it’s also tough to reject. Have some respect for yourself and find someone who actually wants to be with you. Anyway I’m preaching to the choir here, just happy to hear you two are well-adjusted gentlemen 👏👏
An incel? But Kvothe slept with the god of sex (practically) and even though he was a virgin she became enchanted with his incredible skills. Does that sound like an incel? In all seriousness I feel like Rothfuss is an incredible author when your 15 but as soon as you get older you begin to realise how absurd of a character Kvothe is.
I stuck around to the end thanks for the great talk yall! I love this book but I agree with a lot of your points. Mainly I just really enjoyed the atmosphere and world building and saw Kvothe as a very flawed and dislikable character but still very real feeling if that makes sense. I’ve definitely met people that view themselves like he views himself.
Ok I do enjoy listening to you guys on everything and I did ask for this video so thank you, but I have a lot of thoughts but I think the part about “Kvothe didn’t learn the name of the wind, it came to him, therefore everything happens to Kvothe” is clearly misunderstood here. Kvothe has many instances of “learning” the name of the wind. Elodin in his naming class has Fela sit in a pool of mud, she learns the name of stone yes? Kvothe in the beginning of the book does the same thing, binds the air in his lungs to the wind and Ben berates him for it, in the woods after his parents die, he makes up songs on his lute like “the wind blown leaf”. Learning a name (not just the name of the wind) is done by those and like actions.
Dena was manipulating kvothe. She clearly knew about his feeling for her. She had him wrapped around her finger. Denna and kvothe are both terrible people.
Although I still haven’t read The Name of the Wind (and have no intention of doing so), I really appreciated how you dissected the book analysing every aspect and providing at the same time an entertaining 2 hour long discussion. Truly guys, love your personalities and the strong passion for reading that drives both of you. After watching quite a number of your videos and enjoying all of them, I’m seriously thinking of becoming a Patreon just to be part of your book club and the monthly discussions. You really are some of the best booktubers!!
Guys… this was a good book. I read it two years ago. Why was it good? By my metric, It kept me HOOKED the whole time. I needed more and more as I read, and I still think about it sometimes. 2nd is even better
@ wanting to know more of the Chandrian was interesting, for some reason the part that hooked me was when he did the admissions test to the university. After that scene I was really interested in Kvothe’s university life, battles with Ambrose, etc…
This is the book that got me reading as an adult, and since then I read on average 60 books a year lol. Most of them epic fantasy. Personally I couldn't be thankful enough for this series for opening my eyes and realizing how different books are from what I was forced to read in highschool and now. In saying that, I hate that this UNCOMPLETED series is what started me down this path. I really REALLY wish it was another book but unfortunately it is Name of the Wind. So disappointingly it will always hold a special place for me. As you can tell I have mixed feelings, and most of the negativity is from the author not completing it but I do genuinely think it is near perfect. Aside from the first 80 pages where the story hasn't really started yet, I think from there the whole series is a 10/10 but the author really sours the whole experience for me.
The only thing I remember about this book is that I was so bored around 90 something percent of the book that I stopped reading in a natural way. One day didnt wanna continue and that was that.
I didnt hate the book, in fact I read the second one too, and thats when I really felt the "nothing happens in this series" criticism. And this was a few years ago so I have forgotten almost all the details already.
A friend sent me this video and I absolutely loved your guys take on TNoTW. You both encapsulated a lot of my thoughts on the matter. Back when I first read this book it was in a fever dream of sorts... but felt completely dissatisfied with the ending, luckily for me the 2nd book was out which we all know how much of a disaster THAT was. Id be very curious to listen to your guys thoughts on that matter! Either way youve earned a sub!
I’ve read the book twice (have not read the second yet), while I did enjoy it a lot, I never really cared for the relationship between Kvothe and Denna. I think you both perfectly encapsulated what I didn’t really like about them. Great discussion!
Finished the book yesterday and I totally agreed about the relationship aspect of the book. I liked parts of it, I think the scene where kvoth is deciding what type of flower she is was pretty romantic, but ovwrall the relationshio was just weird and simpy. Dena (sorry if spelling wrong I did audiobook) never really landed for me, she came across manipulative, non-committal and disloyal and that doesnt necessarily make her a bad character but for Kvoth to then elevate her to this godess of beauty and perfection is just silly. If Kvoth is such a great guy who is romantic and attractive, shouldn't he either want to be a player getting all the girls, or want a girl who will be loyal to him and worthy of being his partner instead of some whore? Im just trying to make it make sense and it just doesnt. I also implore you 2 to go to goodreads, and read the negative comment left there that have over a thousand likes. Its a 1 star rating from a guy who didnt get passed page 162, but he points out how just how weird the other relationships around kvoth come across and I couldnt help but agree.
I remember reading this books a few years ago and loving it. It was one of the books that hooked me back into reading as an adult. You guys definitely want me to reread it
Hey ! Kvothe was the best fighter, magician, musical genius , romantic seducer before his balls even dropped. And he's also humble , nobel and proud. How dare one even stand in his shadow and criticize such godlike human ? ;)
You took the leap and decided to divide the community! 😁 Just messin, though. I did like the two books in Kingkiller, but by no means do I feel the need to defend them or the characters. Disclaimer- writing this comment before the video begins
You see… this is the part where i get conflicted about Richard. He’s like my twin from another mother when it comes to how I think. So I haven’t read this book and I will because I feel like I have to but nothing about it really seems interesting to me so I trust Richard when he trashes it. But at the same time my guy, my brother… defends The wheel of bore-time. Which is like… how?
Gotta say, that was the best eye-roll ever (!) from Richard at about 44:43, when you were talking about the friend zone. I so agree, and also agree about Kvothe's dysfunctional, pathetic relationship with Denna. There were a number of things I liked about NOTW, but that wasn't one of them.
My personal problems with Name of The Wind, Kvothe is just too perfect, watching interviews we see the Author SEES himself as kvothe, he also never TRULY struggles in life, even when he lives in the streets, it is by HIS CHOICE, because he WANTS to suffer due to his grieve, one day he QUITE LITERALLY wakes up and says "today I won't be poor anymore" and in a single day, he's out of there, even his struggles, it's just because he doesn't want to deal with such problem in a different way. I personally think that you can only like Kvothe as a character if you are not an adult, reading as a teen, I would probably see him and Denna as romantic, but it is not, it is toxic to its finest, at least among my group of friends, the sum is that those that read it as teens love it, because they see as nostalgic, the ones that read it after as adults, see the flaws and really dislike it. Kvothe was written to be a perfect, beautiful, charming, inteligent, academic, musician that will do EVERYTHING no person can ever do. I am a lot harsher than the two of you, but love to see more people talking about the same problems with the books as I have. Quite a mid book with such a following that it bothers me, seem people compare Sanderson as McDonalds and Name of the Wind as a michilan star restaurant, honestly the more I see people putting this book on a pedestal, the more I dislike it
I was already hesitant to read this book, just because I may never be able to finish it, and this may put it even further down my TBR. I really dont mind spoilers so much so I watched the whole video, and honestly I dont know that I will read it. I love a book with a good message, or something inspiring about how people can overcome challenges, and this doesnt feel like itll scratch that itch at all. I genuinely appreciate the review, this one is so loved, so getting the other side of the opinion is honestly super useful. Keep it up guys, I look forward to watching your new stuff every week!
I suggest reading it. For many this is a top 5 book, and for good reason. Rothfus is a masterful writer, and his prose is nothing short of amazing. This book had everything I want in a book.
Their opinion is the minority. Nothing wrong with that but my goodness don't think that means it's a bad book. You may hate it and you may love it as much as many.. but then the last book has been a big issue so fair if you don't read it.
It's a very well made simple story. The author is incredibly good with words, but not that good with keeping his promises. So it is something quite special in many senses, but not that incredible in others. So people hate on it because of that, and because of how much time the author took to write it.
I think it actually comes down go 2 things. 1) some people like following a character through their lives others like following a character through a specific story. 2) some people put themselves in the shoes of the main character others just see themselves as a viewer of the story. So if you like stories where the character is just a vehicle to put you through a specific plot you will hate this book. But if you're like me and you want to see a unique perspective of someone's life you'll probably love it.
Spoiler…. As far as I remember apart from the hit with Felurian none of the other events in the blurb have happened in the first 2 novels… which means in essence the first 2 books could be considered “filler” as nothing which people have been pulled into the story because of that has taken place… Apart from Felurian 🤣🤣🤣
Name of the Wind is one of my faves because it was literally the first fantasy book I read. Although my opinion of the series soured over the years of waiting and eventually realising that the 3rd book is never coming. Authors don't owe us to finish what they've started - lesson learned
I don’t like kvothe but the reading experience was enjoyable except for the parts you mostly mentioned, honestly learning about the history of the world is the most rewarding part of reading these two books, but yeah, your criticisms are fair. It’s still a strong 4 from me because to me it’s that well written
I didn't hate this book when I read it but I do think it's average at best. Almost starting reading the second one merely to trick myself into not acknowledging how bad and boring the end of name of the wind was. Honestly, if the second one isn't significantly better it makes me question why this series has any reason to exist.
I read this as a teenager, and I hated it. I feel validated 😭 I also started following Mike through his (Dune and) Name of the Wind opinion! People say the writing is good, and I thought it was on me for reading a translation, but I also cringed plenty of times...
This is one of the books I plan to read real soon, so I dipped out before the spoiler section - but it’s really wild how my favorite BookTubers all either say this is their favorite book or they strongly dislike (hate?) it. 😂 Then Lin Manuel Miranda has to go and drop that glowing endorsement that is printed on the dust jacket of the new anniversary edition 😮
I found your channel a few weeks ago and have been catching up on your videos. You guys have a great energy, and the way you share your thoughts so clearly is very enjoyable to listen to. Good stuff 💪
Bless, finally some book guys with good taste. This was one of the most irritating reads of my life, I'm so tired of seeing it recommended all the time. It was like a good story and interesting world were juuuust out of frame the whole time. Instead I had to hang out with Kvothe, yechhh. I remember yelling at my friend that recommended the book "WHY ARE WE STILL IN SCHOOL? NOTHING IS HAPPENING" Part of my problem was super personal, I'll admit it. The reader is *told* that Kvothe was so poor and worked so much, but I was a student who couldn't afford to eat every day, I didn't buy it. He was supposedly working all day but still had time to do everything he wanted, and always found money somewhere.
I love name of the wind. First fantasy book i ever read and hooked me into the genre. Ive read tons after it including stormlight archive (reading wind and truth now), first law trilogy, mistborn, etc. maybe i’ll see if in a different light if i go back and read it again, now that i am a more seasoned in the genre. regardless, KKC will always have a special place in my heart. Praying to Tolkien that he releases doors of stone in the near future.
Dude, I read this book like a decade ago when I was so much more impressionable. I never realized how cringe it was. I would probably have a different opinion of this book if I read it today. I appreciate how absolutely B A S E D y’all are
I loved this book when I read it back as a 15 year old band kid, hahahaha. I think mostly it’s that 1) it was the first time I’d ever encountered prose anything like this style or skill, and I was blown away by the pure rhythm of the words, and 2) I think a know-it-all 15 year old band kid is about as close as you could possibly find to an ideal audience. 😂 I also got attached to Auri, who is the only character other than Kvoth that I can remember with any clarity at all. Thinking back about some aspects of the book now, and hearing you discuss it, I suspect that on a reread I’d be deeply, deeply frustrated about many of the same things you are.
Ok so, I read the books over a decade ago, but I remember really liking them and also disliking some of the topics you mentioned. I think it leaves a bit of a bitter taste in the mouth because of so much wasted potential. Your ratings tho? Outrageous! Now I’m terrified to dive back in and discover my love was just a nostalgia-induced hallucination. Ps: don't read the second book, it get's worse
The drama around Dena is crazy to me. Like these guys say if a girl is flighty or doesn't like to commit to relationships then they are evil. It turns out that's most teenage women so it's kind of odd to see people take extreme positions.
F off? I WANT MY WORDS!!! Surprisingly enough, you have convinced me to buy the hard cover version of this book just so I can tell people who see it, " I liked the book... but I don't recommend it" lol awesome video guys
I almost feel like I need to re-read this book to see how my opinions have changed but I just don’t want to. Initially I gave it a 4/5 but I’ve read a ton more fantasy since then, most of which I would consider better then Name of the Wind. I begrudgingly read it for a book club and I say begrudgingly because I have less faith that this series will be completed than I do in Game of Thrones being completed. I remember really enjoying the prose but the more and more that I thought about the plot and the actual events that took place, I found myself more and more frustrated with it entirely. So, as someone who gave it a 4, I think a 2ish is very fair.
I really disagree with you guys on this. Except I do think the plot is like a 1 star. We were promised all this crazy stuff at the beginning of the book, talking to gods and killing kings and bla bla bla. Then we get bard childhood, parents killed, street orphan in city, all great, good amount of time spent on it. I genuinely expected (and I think Rothfuss expected) him to spend a similar amount of time on the wizard school part. But it is almost the entire book. Something is wrong plot wise. Now, I loved the wizard school stuff, I am glad it is there. I like the 'boring' stuff the best. But... Ya, that's absolutely a failure to deliver what was promised. I disagree with you on almost everything else tbh, lol. Enjoyed your thoughts as usual
Thank you Displate for sponsoring us! Use code “2ToRamble” to get a 20-33% discount! displate.com/2toramble
Not only is this a bad video, but it has in turn made me a worse person for listening to it. I no longer return my mother's calls, tip waiters, return shopping carts or tell my cats they are precious little babies. I hope you're proud of what you've done.
Lolol
Can confirm
Name of the wind felt like listening to that one friend who is a liar and you know it but you don’t want to call them out so you just go along with the story. And that friend ends the story with “and then everyone stood up and clapped because I was so AWESOME”
I think the book would be much better if it made it clear that Kvothe was lying and exagerating things.
I don't agree because it was actually a great book with actual great writing. I'm looking it at from for a literature point of view as opposed to whatever you guys wanted out of it which I don't know. Honestly the guys who did this review wasn't that clear on what they wanted from the book. Name of the wind was to me a breathe of fresh air amongst all of the other epic fantasy trope. I'm not saying it didn't have flaws it did. But I read it as a character study as opposed to wheel of time or saunderson works which is usually bland in my opinion. I think that Rothfuss is actually a better literature writer than a fantasy author in the genre that he's writing.
@@zodlord5669 I didn’t want anything out of the book I had 0 expectations other than I heard it’s a great book! I was excited. It was half way through I realized I couldn’t stand it.
@@sashakeiv2703 that's fine I read wheel of time up to the halfway point and realize it was a LOTR rippoff and couldn't stand that. I had 0 expectations too. I like Rothfuss because it was actually different, the writing and prose were actually good. His connections to Dena were actually interesting regardless if you agree with it or not. It was a character study wrapped up in a epic fantasy, which was interesting to me. I read literature. I don't read novels for all the dumb good guy vs bad guy crap. It was refreshing that Rothfuss made a flawed character.
I knew a Kvothe who had no car but lied about having a lot of cars. He told us a story about how he used the spinners on his car to cut fruit for a lady in the grocery store parking lot and she thanked them. And that’s just classic Kvothe.
Just when I think you can't be any dumber than disliking last Argument of Kings, you go and say this about Name of the Wind...AND TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF!
Mike, stop reminding me that we don't agree on everything
For the record, I could read a whole book about Kvothe buttering toast with a knife made from that dragon lizard’s tooth. Language/prose guy here lol
I’ve always hear the prose argument for this book and I don’t really get it (maybe because English is not my first language). I mean, don’t get me wrong, the prose was great, but then I read Oscar Wilde and it’s soooo far away it’s not even fair to compare. Basically what I’m saying is that not even the prose was enough to save this book for me haha
@@Usernameforsf Fair enough! For me it’s just his attention to word choice-and how he’s always hitting the right words and verbs to produce a kind of smooth, simple music on the page. It gives me this warm, come-listen-to-a-story-by-the-fire feeling. There’s great complex prose and great simple prose-this book is the latter.
@@Usernameforsf My own book is an attempt at complex prose-which runs the risk of turning purple…I won’t say if I succeeded or not because now that it’s out there in the world, it’s not really for me to decide, you know?
@@k.enterante that’s interesting! Never thought about it that way, I’ll try to put attention on that in other books xD
@@k.enterante yeah I understand, but it’s awesome that you tried, because it’s so satisfying to read good prose
I'm gonna disagree with Richard on one thing... I think what Rothfuss was *trying* to convey is, the world just hates Kvothe, isn't he so noble and honorable for putting up with this. But with one notable exception, everything that ever goes wrong for him is only ever because he's an arrogant douche. Every problem he has is caused by him deliberately pissing people off because he can't stop treating everyone around him like they're beneath him, and the only good relationships he has are with people who are okay accepting that they are in fact beneath him.
5:21 point of order. He said it took him 14 years to write the whole thing. And that each book was ready to go, and there would be no ‘long waits’.
The Name of the Wind of by far my FAVORITE book….this may trigger me…😂
😈
@@2ToRamble It's not my favorite book...because Wise Man's Fear IS! You guys didn't really hate the BOOK, or you wouldn't have had such strong opinions about the details and have annotations marked to discuss, you just would have DNF'd it if the BOOK was bad. You can tell the book really had an effect on you both. What you hated was the story Kvothe is telling inside the "framed narrative" of the book, because you can't relate to the type of "fated love romance" person that Kvothe is, which certain types of people are (friendzoned ppl, simps, incels, Forrest Gump). He objectifies her because he sees her as his destiny. You guys, with your "significant others" and "practical relationships" don't deserve a wild thing like Denna because your neurotypical NPC brains are just like all the other 80% of normies that read books as a form of escapism, so when a real life hard-hitting giant lizard comes along and all you have is some realistic sympathetic magic, it becomes all too real and scary. Not some dragon slaying flight of fancy where the hero always gets the girl and slings fireballs around like candy and wouldn't even occur to him to get the dragon drunk first.
@@T2Darlantanwhat a comment
@@grantharrispb I have no idea if that person's comment is satire or not, but I love it either way
@@jamesalexander958 mostly satire lol, with real opinions mixed in
I’m upset that I had to put Oathbringer down to read this… I will say though I’m glad I read it so I can get the bastard thing off of my shelves and let an unwitting stranger be as equally disappointed by it 😂
😂
I have never read this book, but I LOVE listening to people talk about it for some reason.
ALSO I FINALLY STARTED OATHBRINGER! DALINAR BABY!!
DADDY DALINAR LETS GO
I at no point thought that Kvothe's actions with Denna were the "message of how to act".
Agreed. And as to their "adult Kvothe thinks so" as an argument, it's not as if everyone is a good person at 25 or whatever he is, and that we should take anything moral away from him
Legitimately thought this was Wind and Truth and tweaked tf out
Same 😭 my eyes tricked me 😅
We would never diss Sando like that 😮💨
I would have stopped watching book reviews and maybe even stop reading books altogether 😅😂
@@victoriat.similien4973 correct response lol
I don’t know if anyone had a similar experience but I listened to the name of the wind before reading and I think it added a lot to the story. It made side characters feel more realized and Kvoths journey from start to finish genuinely intrigued me. I didn’t fix the tension issues and the lackluster love plot but the audio really seemed to amplify the first time experience
It's funny because I love The Name of the Wind as much as Richard loves The First Law, and I hate The First Law as much as Richard hates The Name of the Wind.
I hate both of them, but I'm glad to find another FL hater.
since you too loved Oathbringer by brandon sanderson and i HATED IT and stopped reading stormlight archive completely. im sure i will love the name of the wind
When I’m thinking of archetypal bards for reference, the sweet spot for me is somewhere between Kvothe and Thom Merriland. Hoid is probably my favorite bard in fantasy, but in my mind he belongs in the same category as Robin Hobb’s Fool as something apart.
Oo Hoid is a great Bard
ROBIN HOBB!!!!!
Sorry. I have to do that every time my favorite author is mentioned lol
YES ON THE LIZARD SCENE! Holy cow I did not care one bit once we went to the city where the wedding took place
Right!?
The Name of the Wind is a masterpiece, here I stand.
Boys, stick him
After watching this video, did you change from standing to sitting?
@@dogseathomework4171 I STOOD HARDER
@@DustinHarrisWHBC lmao!
Mike's book reviews help keep me stay consistent with The Wheel of Time series. After every book I read, I go to his channel first. Big shout out to Mike. I wanted to love this book so much but I can't. I enjoyed parts of it, but one character manages to invoke so much frustration I want to put it down. Then the holes ... omg. Again, I wanted to love this series so much! But I was so overwhelmingly disappointed.
YES YES YES! A 2 hour lonf 2 to Rample video? Is this Christmas? And about NAME OF THE WIND?? HELL YESS. I LOVE YOU
🤝🤝
I feel like you saw what you were supposed to see but misunderstood. Because you’re right current day kvothe does agree with younger kvothe on things, but that’s the whole point, it’s his story that he’s telling, he’s not an unreliable narrator because he’s lying, but because it’s subjective to him.
And your right everything bad does happen to him, because in his pride that it how he sees it. You’re right current kvothe is still super prideful and doesn’t see anything he really does wrong in his past, he’s also still super young in current times. So it lands with me that he still isn’t very mature and some people just don’t mature even thru their forties fifties. He’s laid out as the hero because he is the one telling the story to him, he’s the victim to himself he’s the one who overcomes everything. His pride absolutely is a flaw that continually gets him into bad situations but from his perspective is not his fault.
As for the perspective on woman and the friend zone stuff/ the “lessons” I don’t think we’re meant to at all think he’s correct, the message isn’t meant to be one that you agree with. Hahah it’s almost more of a caution/this is bad. I take these types of things more of observations of what happens than a you should live like this. I think you’re letting your dislike of the book miss read the authors intentions but maybe I’m off.
I think you’re going in with the assumption that current day kvothe is the finished hero product, and he’s not at all. And idk that seemed pretty clear to me on how he was telling his story.
I get the boring stuff kind of but I loved the world the schooling stuff mostly, and the magic, the writing enough for it to not be an issue and I enjoy slow burns/ more of an observation of someone’s life, so wasn’t really boring to me.
I think the message of the book is more of about the stories we tell about culture and history and ourselves, like with the Chandrians there’s one story telling them they are good and others bad, even with his traveling group, some people hate them and others love them, all dependent on stories that are told from different perspectives.
I agree tho he doesn’t need to get to more of the super interesting parts of the world and kvothes stuff, like the current day stuff going on. Him getting kicked out of school. Killing a king. All the supposed cool stuff he did. He needs to get to it, he gets to some of it in the second book but more hahah Idk. But I think the whole lucking his way thru things is part of his actual story that again is part of that same point that even legends don’t live up to the expectation sometimes.
Anyways bummed you guys didn’t like it but I also think you’re missing some things.
So as a writer a lesson I learned early on was that if I had to explain to my readers that they didn't "get" something, the issue wasnt them it was that I didn't do a good enough job converting my idea in the first place. It's not as thought these fellas are the first ones to take issue with kvoth and not feel the unreliable narrator is a good enough excuse to warrant it. Or to put it another way. "My character is supposed to be insufferable that's the point!" Okay...why would I want to read about someone who's insufferable and also hasn't changed? Just because it was on purpose doesn't mean it was a good idea.
@@mattparsons2045 totally agree with basically all of what you said, but I don’t think it’s a matter of they didn’t get it so I have to explain it, more so I think it’s taking the wrong perspective, like assuming current kvothe is the finished article so he must look back at his life and think of how dumb he was, no that’s the point he’s still prideful and is telling his own story so of course it favors him. That was my point I think they “got it” but just looked at it from the wrong perspective, and honestly Austin being set up with the expectations he did it’s easy to see why he would immediately take the view point of it’s just bad instead of maybe there something else the author is doing.
And idk kvothe isn’t insufferable to me at all, he’s a trauma ridden closed off street smart kid. He’s very flawed. And I did root for him to make right decisions even if 7/10 times he didn’t. But that’s fine. I enjoyed the world and the magic and the characters, the friendships. The mysteries plenty. But going into it expecting him to be a virtuous hero, and when he’s not saying it’s bad, is on you and not the author.
Reacting to the messages to show I did read them - interesting stuff thatus making Rich and I want to do a part 2 almost, so much to discuss
@@BTBenton10HD I totally agree with you on this.
I loved this book but I can appreciate the criticism. I feel that you are supposed to be frustrated by the character flaws of Kvothe and Denna. The part of me that easily suspends disbelief feels it was meant to be a overwrought narrative told by a jaded hero fallen. Its a story written for and rejected by cynics.
Ok, I’m only 3 minutes in but… this title genuinely has shocked me. I would have thought this was right up your alley! Looking forward to hearing your reasons
The Mary Sue whiny brat protagonist?
@@AndrewFrancisIlyrianif you think Kvothe is a Mary Sue, you really need to pay more attention. Yes, he's good at a lot of things skill-wise, but he also is reaaally flawed in many ways.
He overestimates himself, which often gets him into trouble. He is overemotional and he really doesn't think things through, which often leads to disaster. He is really bad at communicating with other people and detecting what they're thinking and feeling, he often pisses other people off. While he is intelligent and has a lot of skills, he sucks at engaging with people and making well-thought out decisions.
@@CallmeJochem none of these ever cause him more strife than his other super awesome abilities cannot counter. Get whipped half to death? No matter, he'll use a magic potion. gets kidnapped by a faerie goddess? No matter, he'll fuck his way to freedom. Same with the ninja chicks. There is no problem too great for Kvothe to contrive his way out of.
Characterization (especially the prot as projection of male fantasy) and plot convenience are the most common complaints. Writing (above all) and lore are the most praised areas. Of course, your mileage will vary.
@AndrewFrancisIlyrian i meant the series is about a man who brings the world into complete chaos he can no lomger use magic and he has lost all music in his life. Yeah he solves most of the problems in the first to books but all his flaws are there and the books tell you multiple times that he is going to fail miserably and the end is inevitably a tragedy.
After watching this I would love to see you guys review A Wizard of Earthsea. I’d be curious to see how it stacks up to this one in your eyes
If Auri (the rooftop girl) is your favourite then there is an entire novel focused on her the Slow Regard of Silent Things! Although that one is not as well liked as name of the wind i think.
I loved "The Slow Regard of Silent Things." It's an odd story but a magical one. I looked at every object in my house differently for at least two weeks, lol. Also loved "The Narrow Road Between Desires." Bast is a wonderful character.
I think you guys completely misinterpreted the "message" of the book, it's framed as a tragedy and explicitly stated to be so, so Kvothe being an idiot with Denna and coming off as an incel isn't meant to be the message of the book, it's meant to be Kvothe being an idiot. Just because modern Kvothe hasn't grown up and/or can't admit his mistakes doesn't mean that's what Rothfuss think is correct. Also pride is for sure the cause of most of his problems, for example, half of his problems post coming to the University revolve around his struggle for money, meanwhile one of his best friends is a kind Aturan noble who would definitely help him out if he asked... Anyways to each their own, but I will say this is the most frustrating analysis I've ever watched and I disagree with every point except about the talent pipes scene
Rothfuss forgetting how MC t survived as a beggar in the part of his life is just lazy . If one has gone so low to beg to survive , and just a few months later becomes so proud he won't even ask a simple loan (that's easily repaid) was pure cringe.
Let's gooooo me toooooo. Reached the end and was like..."that's it?!?! What a meandering waste of my time." But agree with the favorite chapter part. There is one moment that almost brought me to tears.
I would LOVE your reactions to The Wise Man's Fear.
You could say I'm "musically inclined," and I was not moved by Rothfuss's description of playing or learning to play music at all.
I played a note, and everyone cried
Thanks for doing this guys, been waiting for this for so long!
Of course! Thanks for watching this
Haven't watched the whole video yet, but I appreciate the different perspective. It was my favorite book 12 years ago but I definitely see where you guys are coming from, even if I disagree(d). There is a big part of book 2 that I hated more than you hated this, so I can empathize.
It might be a cool idea to have someone on your show who loves the book as you are both fun "debaters" and this is a divisive one. The agreement here is fine too as is digging deeper and deeper into hate for the book.. but finding someone who might help you see some light from deep down in your hate hole would be cool too (and vice versa). Hate hole.. not sure if I regret that phrase now.
Lol definitely- we had someone on when we reviewed Malazan book 1 because it wasnt for us and that was great. Same with Fourth Wing when we collabed with Fantasy Fangirls!
I love love love it when people have passionate opinions on books
Wise man's fear when
😭😭
This book is goated
And the second one is EVEN BETTER.
You guys have really intrigued me into reading this book because of what you said about the ending in the intro
Our opinions differ on this one, but here’s to hoping you guys will do The Wise Man’s Fear-DO IT FOR THE CONTENT!! 😂 (Watching you guys rumble/ramble about Kvothe’s forays with Felurian alone would make the video so very worth multiple viewings LMAO)
thinking the same thing - I would love to hear the guys talk about these scenes 😂
I havent read it for a few years, but Name of the Wind is one of the few books that I have re-read multiple times. There is something about the prose and the world that draws me in. The mystery of the Chandrian was intenswly interesting to me. Kvothe comes across, even as rhe innkeeper, as a perpetual victim and arrogant idiot who has no self reflection. So I am hugely intrigued as to why he is where he is, wallowing. What happened? And even more, can he have that character growth that he obviously needs after he finishes telling his story? There is so much potential, but this series often falls short. Its taking too long, there is so much time spent on building everything up that I fear the actual moment of action will never live up to it. Mystery is easier to create than living up to what has been set up. So many books fall so far short of it. I agree with a lot of your criticisms, yet the mystery still gets me 😅
I'm watching these at work and it's never a hard thing to get to the end 😂 also I've never had an interest of reading this book, even less so hearing the negatives, even less less LESS so watching Richard lower his rating in the review 😂😂😂 .25 decrease is the pettiness I love and deserve to see.
Thank yall for the ramble ❤
🙏🙏
Easily the best book ever written that’s all I’m gonna say
Written as in prose? I think Rich might agree with that
@@2ToRamble best story and best read ever to
I really enjoyed name of the wind when I read it. Funny enough, it was reading Wise Man’s Fear that made me kind of reconsider my thoughts on name of the wind a bit. I think I had trust that the story was going somewhere in the first book, and with that mostly gone it just became a little bit worse
Edit: also I completely agree with the fedora tipping incel-like behavior of Kvoth…some of those lines made me cringe just as hard. Helps a little when I remember he’s like 15 at the time, though not as much when I remember it’s old Kvoth telling the story
Also I 100% agree with your thoughts on the friend zone. Makes me roll my eyes anytime someone says they’re “trapped”. No you’re not - take a shower, get some life skills, be a good listener, be kind, be respectful. Ask her out, if she says no then move on. It’s tough to be rejected, it’s also tough to reject. Have some respect for yourself and find someone who actually wants to be with you. Anyway I’m preaching to the choir here, just happy to hear you two are well-adjusted gentlemen 👏👏
An incel? But Kvothe slept with the god of sex (practically) and even though he was a virgin she became enchanted with his incredible skills. Does that sound like an incel?
In all seriousness I feel like Rothfuss is an incredible author when your 15 but as soon as you get older you begin to realise how absurd of a character Kvothe is.
I stuck around to the end thanks for the great talk yall! I love this book but I agree with a lot of your points. Mainly I just really enjoyed the atmosphere and world building and saw Kvothe as a very flawed and dislikable character but still very real feeling if that makes sense. I’ve definitely met people that view themselves like he views himself.
First episode I’m actively HYPED for, don’t get me wrong I’m always excited for everything else, but oh man has this been a long time coming!!
Hell yea
The best way I can describe my thoughts is: Sometimes, incredible technical writing disguises terrible storytelling.
Ok I do enjoy listening to you guys on everything and I did ask for this video so thank you, but I have a lot of thoughts but I think the part about “Kvothe didn’t learn the name of the wind, it came to him, therefore everything happens to Kvothe” is clearly misunderstood here. Kvothe has many instances of “learning” the name of the wind. Elodin in his naming class has Fela sit in a pool of mud, she learns the name of stone yes? Kvothe in the beginning of the book does the same thing, binds the air in his lungs to the wind and Ben berates him for it, in the woods after his parents die, he makes up songs on his lute like “the wind blown leaf”. Learning a name (not just the name of the wind) is done by those and like actions.
Dena was manipulating kvothe. She clearly knew about his feeling for her. She had him wrapped around her finger. Denna and kvothe are both terrible people.
Oh my god I feel like this has been in the making since episode one!
😁
Although I still haven’t read The Name of the Wind (and have no intention of doing so), I really appreciated how you dissected the book analysing every aspect and providing at the same time an entertaining 2 hour long discussion. Truly guys, love your personalities and the strong passion for reading that drives both of you. After watching quite a number of your videos and enjoying all of them, I’m seriously thinking of becoming a Patreon just to be part of your book club and the monthly discussions. You really are some of the best booktubers!!
Thank you so much!!!
Guys… this was a good book. I read it two years ago. Why was it good? By my metric, It kept me HOOKED the whole time. I needed more and more as I read, and I still think about it sometimes. 2nd is even better
Which part hooked you? I think the Chandrian stuff was an interesting spark
@ wanting to know more of the Chandrian was interesting, for some reason the part that hooked me was when he did the admissions test to the university. After that scene I was really interested in Kvothe’s university life, battles with Ambrose, etc…
This is the book that got me reading as an adult, and since then I read on average 60 books a year lol. Most of them epic fantasy. Personally I couldn't be thankful enough for this series for opening my eyes and realizing how different books are from what I was forced to read in highschool and now. In saying that, I hate that this UNCOMPLETED series is what started me down this path. I really REALLY wish it was another book but unfortunately it is Name of the Wind. So disappointingly it will always hold a special place for me. As you can tell I have mixed feelings, and most of the negativity is from the author not completing it but I do genuinely think it is near perfect. Aside from the first 80 pages where the story hasn't really started yet, I think from there the whole series is a 10/10 but the author really sours the whole experience for me.
The only thing I remember about this book is that I was so bored around 90 something percent of the book that I stopped reading in a natural way. One day didnt wanna continue and that was that.
I didnt hate the book, in fact I read the second one too, and thats when I really felt the "nothing happens in this series" criticism. And this was a few years ago so I have forgotten almost all the details already.
Listening to this I’d be curious if you’d like the first binding. I had a lot of the same issues with NOTW but I adored the first binding.
A friend sent me this video and I absolutely loved your guys take on TNoTW. You both encapsulated a lot of my thoughts on the matter. Back when I first read this book it was in a fever dream of sorts... but felt completely dissatisfied with the ending, luckily for me the 2nd book was out which we all know how much of a disaster THAT was. Id be very curious to listen to your guys thoughts on that matter! Either way youve earned a sub!
Thanks a bunch to you! (And your friend for sending the vid 😁)
My bros got this one!
The Name of the Wind is my favorite book of all time so I'm just gonna do myself a favor and not watch this 😂😂
😂
I’ve read the book twice (have not read the second yet), while I did enjoy it a lot, I never really cared for the relationship between Kvothe and Denna. I think you both perfectly encapsulated what I didn’t really like about them.
Great discussion!
Thankya!
Guys, please quit wasting time re-reading books and read The Bound and The Broken already! It's truly special.
I read this book about 8 years ago and was very meh about it. I'm glad I'm not the only one, since most of my friends who read this loved it.
Finished the book yesterday and I totally agreed about the relationship aspect of the book. I liked parts of it, I think the scene where kvoth is deciding what type of flower she is was pretty romantic, but ovwrall the relationshio was just weird and simpy. Dena (sorry if spelling wrong I did audiobook) never really landed for me, she came across manipulative, non-committal and disloyal and that doesnt necessarily make her a bad character but for Kvoth to then elevate her to this godess of beauty and perfection is just silly. If Kvoth is such a great guy who is romantic and attractive, shouldn't he either want to be a player getting all the girls, or want a girl who will be loyal to him and worthy of being his partner instead of some whore? Im just trying to make it make sense and it just doesnt. I also implore you 2 to go to goodreads, and read the negative comment left there that have over a thousand likes. Its a 1 star rating from a guy who didnt get passed page 162, but he points out how just how weird the other relationships around kvoth come across and I couldnt help but agree.
For me, the most surprising thing about how bad The Name of the Wind is. A Wise Men Fear is even worse.
!!
crazy take
@@GabKaulem Not popular, maybe. Crazy? I don't think so.
Wise Man's fear is the worst fantasy novel I've ever finished. I only finished it to validate my opinion of how bad it is.
@@joninparadox same case.
I remember reading this books a few years ago and loving it. It was one of the books that hooked me back into reading as an adult. You guys definitely want me to reread it
Hey ! Kvothe was the best fighter, magician, musical genius , romantic seducer before his balls even dropped. And he's also humble , nobel and proud. How dare one even stand in his shadow and criticize such godlike human ? ;)
most anticipated book review
You took the leap and decided to divide the community! 😁
Just messin, though. I did like the two books in Kingkiller, but by no means do I feel the need to defend them or the characters.
Disclaimer- writing this comment before the video begins
dang so this comment section is where all the NOTW haters congregate ig
You see… this is the part where i get conflicted about Richard. He’s like my twin from another mother when it comes to how I think. So I haven’t read this book and I will because I feel like I have to but nothing about it really seems interesting to me so I trust Richard when he trashes it. But at the same time my guy, my brother… defends The wheel of bore-time. Which is like… how?
I'm watching this just after the October wrap up so... Seeing Austin being so confident about the bet is hilarious !
😂
a 2-hour long review? is this a new record?😂
I feel Richard this episode because I love ranting about books I hate read lool
Gotta say, that was the best eye-roll ever (!) from Richard at about 44:43, when you were talking about the friend zone. I so agree, and also agree about Kvothe's dysfunctional, pathetic relationship with Denna. There were a number of things I liked about NOTW, but that wasn't one of them.
i read a few chapters of name of the wind, and i could already feel the same gripes that you guys felt and just dropped immediately
My personal problems with Name of The Wind, Kvothe is just too perfect, watching interviews we see the Author SEES himself as kvothe, he also never TRULY struggles in life, even when he lives in the streets, it is by HIS CHOICE, because he WANTS to suffer due to his grieve, one day he QUITE LITERALLY wakes up and says "today I won't be poor anymore" and in a single day, he's out of there, even his struggles, it's just because he doesn't want to deal with such problem in a different way.
I personally think that you can only like Kvothe as a character if you are not an adult, reading as a teen, I would probably see him and Denna as romantic, but it is not, it is toxic to its finest, at least among my group of friends, the sum is that those that read it as teens love it, because they see as nostalgic, the ones that read it after as adults, see the flaws and really dislike it.
Kvothe was written to be a perfect, beautiful, charming, inteligent, academic, musician that will do EVERYTHING no person can ever do.
I am a lot harsher than the two of you, but love to see more people talking about the same problems with the books as I have.
Quite a mid book with such a following that it bothers me, seem people compare Sanderson as McDonalds and Name of the Wind as a michilan star restaurant, honestly the more I see people putting this book on a pedestal, the more I dislike it
46:20 can anyone tell me the name of this movie. I'm struggling to understand the last word of the title
I think it's Cyrano de Bergerac, a french movie from the 90s
Correct title, but we watched the one from the 50s - its based on a play written much earlier!
I was already hesitant to read this book, just because I may never be able to finish it, and this may put it even further down my TBR. I really dont mind spoilers so much so I watched the whole video, and honestly I dont know that I will read it. I love a book with a good message, or something inspiring about how people can overcome challenges, and this doesnt feel like itll scratch that itch at all. I genuinely appreciate the review, this one is so loved, so getting the other side of the opinion is honestly super useful.
Keep it up guys, I look forward to watching your new stuff every week!
Thanks so freaking much!!
I suggest reading it. For many this is a top 5 book, and for good reason. Rothfus is a masterful writer, and his prose is nothing short of amazing. This book had everything I want in a book.
Okay fineeee I’ll never read it (sarcasm). I appreciate that y’all show both sides of the coin and aren’t afraid to give your honest opinions
Their opinion is the minority. Nothing wrong with that but my goodness don't think that means it's a bad book. You may hate it and you may love it as much as many.. but then the last book has been a big issue so fair if you don't read it.
@@Bagodonuts15 it was mostly sarcasm, although I don’t plan on reading it any time soon because of the undelivered 3rd book. Maybe someday though!
@@LBrimz gotcha. Very fair
Appreciate this!
wow iv heard so many good things about this book its on my TBR list but now i might rethink that
Literally reading the way of kings and trying to finish at the same time as him so I think he can totally do it
i've never seen a book so deeply loved and vehemently hated. I kinda wanna read it just to see why it's so divisive 🤣
It definitely kept me (austin) interested to see why
It's a very well made simple story. The author is incredibly good with words, but not that good with keeping his promises. So it is something quite special in many senses, but not that incredible in others. So people hate on it because of that, and because of how much time the author took to write it.
I think it actually comes down go 2 things.
1) some people like following a character through their lives others like following a character through a specific story.
2) some people put themselves in the shoes of the main character others just see themselves as a viewer of the story.
So if you like stories where the character is just a vehicle to put you through a specific plot you will hate this book. But if you're like me and you want to see a unique perspective of someone's life you'll probably love it.
Even thought this trilogy is not finished Name of the Wind is my favorite fantasy read in the last 20 years!!
Spoiler….
As far as I remember apart from the hit with Felurian none of the other events in the blurb have happened in the first 2 novels… which means in essence the first 2 books could be considered “filler” as nothing which people have been pulled into the story because of that has taken place…
Apart from Felurian 🤣🤣🤣
Name of the Wind is one of my faves because it was literally the first fantasy book I read. Although my opinion of the series soured over the years of waiting and eventually realising that the 3rd book is never coming. Authors don't owe us to finish what they've started - lesson learned
I don’t like kvothe but the reading experience was enjoyable except for the parts you mostly mentioned, honestly learning about the history of the world is the most rewarding part of reading these two books, but yeah, your criticisms are fair. It’s still a strong 4 from me because to me it’s that well written
Fair review!
This review has been foreshadowed and built up to for so long, I’m glad Richard finally gets to vent about the book
Finally after all the teasing
I didn't hate this book when I read it but I do think it's average at best. Almost starting reading the second one merely to trick myself into not acknowledging how bad and boring the end of name of the wind was. Honestly, if the second one isn't significantly better it makes me question why this series has any reason to exist.
I read this as a teenager, and I hated it. I feel validated 😭 I also started following Mike through his (Dune and) Name of the Wind opinion! People say the writing is good, and I thought it was on me for reading a translation, but I also cringed plenty of times...
I have not read this book but I've been waiting for this episode
🤌
I want to see you hate-read/hate-review the sequel
The real question is, why did you drop money on the deluxe hardcover ^^
I think that was Rich’s first copy and he thought he’d enjoy it lol
This is one of the books I plan to read real soon, so I dipped out before the spoiler section - but it’s really wild how my favorite BookTubers all either say this is their favorite book or they strongly dislike (hate?) it. 😂
Then Lin Manuel Miranda has to go and drop that glowing endorsement that is printed on the dust jacket of the new anniversary edition 😮
We’ll see which side you fall on 😮💨
I'm about to listen to two guys i love rant about one of my favorite books for 2 hours I'm not ready 😅
😂
I found your channel a few weeks ago and have been catching up on your videos. You guys have a great energy, and the way you share your thoughts so clearly is very enjoyable to listen to. Good stuff 💪
Thanks so much!!
Bless, finally some book guys with good taste.
This was one of the most irritating reads of my life, I'm so tired of seeing it recommended all the time. It was like a good story and interesting world were juuuust out of frame the whole time. Instead I had to hang out with Kvothe, yechhh.
I remember yelling at my friend that recommended the book "WHY ARE WE STILL IN SCHOOL? NOTHING IS HAPPENING"
Part of my problem was super personal, I'll admit it. The reader is *told* that Kvothe was so poor and worked so much, but I was a student who couldn't afford to eat every day, I didn't buy it. He was supposedly working all day but still had time to do everything he wanted, and always found money somewhere.
I love name of the wind. First fantasy book i ever read and hooked me into the genre. Ive read tons after it including stormlight archive (reading wind and truth now), first law trilogy, mistborn, etc. maybe i’ll see if in a different light if i go back and read it again, now that i am a more seasoned in the genre. regardless, KKC will always have a special place in my heart. Praying to Tolkien that he releases doors of stone in the near future.
Dude, I read this book like a decade ago when I was so much more impressionable. I never realized how cringe it was. I would probably have a different opinion of this book if I read it today. I appreciate how absolutely B A S E D y’all are
I loved this book when I read it back as a 15 year old band kid, hahahaha.
I think mostly it’s that 1) it was the first time I’d ever encountered prose anything like this style or skill, and I was blown away by the pure rhythm of the words, and 2) I think a know-it-all 15 year old band kid is about as close as you could possibly find to an ideal audience. 😂 I also got attached to Auri, who is the only character other than Kvoth that I can remember with any clarity at all.
Thinking back about some aspects of the book now, and hearing you discuss it, I suspect that on a reread I’d be deeply, deeply frustrated about many of the same things you are.
Ok so, I read the books over a decade ago, but I remember really liking them and also disliking some of the topics you mentioned. I think it leaves a bit of a bitter taste in the mouth because of so much wasted potential. Your ratings tho? Outrageous! Now I’m terrified to dive back in and discover my love was just a nostalgia-induced hallucination.
Ps: don't read the second book, it get's worse
The drama around Dena is crazy to me. Like these guys say if a girl is flighty or doesn't like to commit to relationships then they are evil. It turns out that's most teenage women so it's kind of odd to see people take extreme positions.
F off? I WANT MY WORDS!!! Surprisingly enough, you have convinced me to buy the hard cover version of this book just so I can tell people who see it, " I liked the book... but I don't recommend it" lol awesome video guys
Lol thank you!
I almost feel like I need to re-read this book to see how my opinions have changed but I just don’t want to. Initially I gave it a 4/5 but I’ve read a ton more fantasy since then, most of which I would consider better then Name of the Wind. I begrudgingly read it for a book club and I say begrudgingly because I have less faith that this series will be completed than I do in Game of Thrones being completed. I remember really enjoying the prose but the more and more that I thought about the plot and the actual events that took place, I found myself more and more frustrated with it entirely. So, as someone who gave it a 4, I think a 2ish is very fair.
Although, I did also get extreme waves of cringe from Kvothe with him and Dennas relationship. Also, Denna? Not a fan.
I really disagree with you guys on this. Except I do think the plot is like a 1 star. We were promised all this crazy stuff at the beginning of the book, talking to gods and killing kings and bla bla bla. Then we get bard childhood, parents killed, street orphan in city, all great, good amount of time spent on it. I genuinely expected (and I think Rothfuss expected) him to spend a similar amount of time on the wizard school part. But it is almost the entire book. Something is wrong plot wise.
Now, I loved the wizard school stuff, I am glad it is there. I like the 'boring' stuff the best. But... Ya, that's absolutely a failure to deliver what was promised.
I disagree with you on almost everything else tbh, lol.
Enjoyed your thoughts as usual
Looks like we agree on a large part though!