I actually thought this was one of your best videos yet! Not just because of the content (i'm excited to learn it), but because you explained it very clearly. You're improving as a content creator and it's exciting to see!
I use this serve since a while and I can say he did a great job explaining it for all to learn. Well done. (therefore, in hope to see something new ... I subscribed)
I have to say this was a very good description of exactly how to do this serve. So many videos show the motion or what to do but don’t break it down in simple terms. Well done!
I've been doing this since my table tennis days and into my pickleball 1st year. This is very effective in pulling the returner wide and thus creating a gap between the two opponents in doubles. Used it just effectively in single as well to open up the court. Glad you made a tutorial video to share with everyone ... thumbs up !!! ps... I do this with my backhanded kick out wide serve on the even service box as well.
Austin, great how to video! I appreciate the time you took to discuss it as you broke it down. That serve's output is exactly how my screwball serve looks (it's SO much fun to watch opponents not even swing at the serve as they thought it was going out and can't react as it curves back in) but I use my standard continental grip. I will try the backhand eastern grip to see if that adds any power. Anyways, thanks again for a great video! :)
I just hit a couple hundred of these yesterday (practicing alone). Wish I'd seen this video prior to that, but I am excited to work on this serve using the tips provided in your video. Coming from a competitive frisbee background, I liken the motion to that of a forehand grip sidearm throw in Ultimate or disc golf.
I was legit yelled at by a rec player at the local park that this serve was illegal. He was so competitive that he wouldn’t allow me to use this serve. I guess he thought he was losing only because of the serve, but I still beat him pretty badly with a regular topspin serve 😂
I love that serve!! I save it when we have a comfortable lead because it's either an ace, or we loose the point shortly after and I get the look from my partner LOL
Great video man. The strategy/purpose of the serve, breakdown, hand placement/paddle position… great coaching and I didn’t cost me 50$/hr I needed more serves to add to my arsenal, definitely gonna practice and make this screwball serve a go-to. Thx G. 🤙
excellent video and explanation. i have been working on this serve to add to my arsenal when i am serving from the left/ad court so i looked for some on line instruction . I didn't try the grip change, that makes a lot of sense. BTW, i think it is worth noting that this may be more effective when using an open stance. Agree? i use a closed stance for my basic serves and have been slightly opening it for the screwball. Maybe i need to open it more.
Great video! Been practicing this and I think it would be super helpful if you could tell us at what point you make contact with the ball. I find if I make contact too low at the bottom of the paddle it spins way out to my right, and if I make contact higher up with more paddle, it stays low and/or hard and often hits the net or goes out.. 🙏🙏
I am a lefty and have this serve, but I did not know why? Tks for explaining it. to pull them off the court. Also, have a serve, not thinking anyone is doing, maybe I just have not seen it. It is a backhand brush of this forehand. I drop it on the ground and brush a backhand across the ball. With the added serve, I can kick them out off the court on either side. 10:11
I've used the serve for a while. Bottom line is it works on lower level players, but maybe once on a 3.5 or higher player. They are not that hard to return. I use it in a mix of serve types, but would not depend on it. A fast deep serve still works best.
I guess when you said it worked you meant winning the point with the serve. In my experience, even 4.0 players would get surprised by it and hit a sloppy return which gives me an advantage as a server.
Great video! Returning this serve is tough, I've been able to return it when I recognize the type of serve and do a pickup close to the ground as opposed to letting it gain height and spin out on me. Suggestions on returning this type of serve successfully are welcome, Tx
You correctly identified the best defense against the spin serve. Identify it early and hit it right off the ground. Of course that might take you off the court and out of position .
Why would hitting it “right off the ground” be more likely to “take you *off* the court and out of position”??? That means you would be attacking the ball *sooner* which would bring you *closer* to if not (for serves that land farther *in* from the baseline l) *on* the “court”.
Crouch so that you can barely see the ball above the net cord as the server's paddle contacts the ball. You will pick up any lateral motion instantly using the net cord as a visual reference.
I've used this serve for a few years along with a couple of others. It definitely throws people off when I start with a bland serve. This grip is how my tennis coach taught me to serve in tennis way back in middle school.
@@pickleballplaybook Haha, she probably was... This was in France... And that's how I remember it, I could certainly be misremembering 25 years later...lol
I've been using this serve occasionally for a while. It can really catch the returner by surprise and delay them getting to the kitchen. A little disguise of what you are going to do doesn't hurt either.
i spent an hour developing it with my partner 3.0 with recent knee replacement surgery. he got most back and said not hard to deal with. only when i spun it short, just past the kitchen in the corner was it effective. works great with older less mobile players when hit short and lots of spin.
I've been doing that exact serve since they outlawed the pre-spin. However, my success rate has been low so I don't use it in competition. I am going to try switching to the eastern grip and see if that would help. Thanks for the tips.
I just figured this out on my own the other day while practicing by myself, but with continental. It tends to lift up and dive down at the end, like it also has some topspin on it. I pulled it on my kid the next day as my second serve in the game. It hit right at his feet but looked out, and he just stood there. I asked him if it was good and he said, “Not for me!” Now I just need to execute it against that one guy I play at rec that keeps doing spin serves on me and I’ll be happy. I’ll try it with the grip you showed tonight.
I’d like to know where to place my feet - parallel to the baseline or perpendicular (as you did when serving lefty from deuce side)? In addition, if using a drop serve, where do you drop the ball - in front of right foot? Thanks.
In front and slightly to the right of you with a drop serve. I stand open stance because I am right eye dominant and righty. When I serve left it makes more sense to stand closed stance because it puts my right eye in the front when serving to the right side. My right eye goes to the front when serving on the left side with an open stance. Hopefully that makes sense!
For some of us who started serving like this from the beginning it has never gone away or been declared illegal! Try using the bounce service to hit spinning serves as well as backhands
I love it and yes it’s the Invikta! Favorite paddle I’ve ever used. Only thing I don’t like is that the spin wears down over time. www.selkirk.com/products/luxx-control-air-invikta?sca_ref=4516571.n0z0Xqk6sI
Power is great. I’d say it’s very similar to a 16mm paddle. It doesn’t feel 20mm. I add lead to help with control, not power. The resets and dinking feel like a walk in the park
Invikta are is the most advanced paddle of all of them. If you have a ton of practice and want more power, that’s the one to go with! If you’re struggling with control, I’d strongly suggest the control air 👍
I also have the drop serve question. I’m addition, I noticed that when serving right handed, your feet (toes) are parallel to the base line. But when serving left handed from the deuce court, your feet are perpendicular to the base line. Please explain. 0:48
I've used that grip for forhand and backhand since the early 80's. It's seriously overlooked in all racketsports except Badminton where they use it a lot. It was useful in racquetball to hit backhands flat, but took some adaptation for forehands. This was in the day when racquetball was the pickleball of the times and they let the manufacturers turn it into a goofy silly game with bigger and bigger rackets and ever faster balls. It was called the frying pan grip in racquetball as it is like picking up a skillet on the stove. In sports like squash and pickleball where you want spin it is also an effective forehand drive if you flex the head of the racket foreward, it creates a rifling spin with that is extremely accurate and a low skipping bounce that is difficult to field
Great looking serve. Not having tried it yet, but looks like this serve is more conducive from a closed stance vs. open? Or is this not the case? Not that this is an issue, other than telling the opponent what serve is or may be coming. However, if executed correctly, still gives them issues.
I have done this serve for my entire pickleball career (which started after the spin and chainsaw were already banned) and dont have a telegraphing problem. I recommend that you do all your serves starting from a closed stance, and then if you elect to do this one, line your routing up the same, but step your front foot 2 feet to open your stance right before the drop. This should be done almost instantaneously. It lets you pull through the motion a bit with your body and completely removes the ability to read your serve prior. I am not a tournament player yet, but I can still manage to get aces sometimes and weak returns frequently from verifiable 4.5+ opponents. This should be done as a change-up, particularly after one or two really effective deep, topspin serves. You will see your opponent change their lineup and that's where you either hit it short, spinning out or deep, up the center line spinning into them.
I’d say it’s much easier to achieve with an open stance cause it keeps your legs out of the way of your sideways movement 👍. I hit with an open stance on almost every serve
I use open stance for all my serves. I find that I get more power that way. The best server in the world also uses an open stance. If done correctly it can be lethal
I love this, serve, and have been doing it for quite a few months now, I actually just aced a guy the other day when I was serving from the left side and went hard right angle, just outside the kitchen, he called illegal, serve because he could not get to it
If I was playing against you, that grip is a tell that you are going wacky spin, and I would adjust accordingly. However, I am definitely going to work on this one.😄
I often use this same spin a return a serve, it causes the 3rd shot (the server) to pop up the ball and leave an open space for my teammate to put away with a slam.
i dont understand why it causes the returner (the server) to pop up the ball. spin continuation causes a ball hit to someone with cut spin , or underhand spin, to gear down against the paddle, not gear up. try hitting topspin against the wall and then cut or underhand spin against a wall. the former makes it climb up the wall and the latter makes it climb down after impact. one person i play against tends to hit hard drives ,, but without much topspin imparted, he often hits my returns into the net when i cut under the ball to him. he gets frustrated playing me , because he gets away with flat drives more often against players that are hitting topspin returns to him. i dont think he understands spin continuation and doesnt adjust to those returns. cutspin makes the ball sit up more (bounce higher) when it hits the ground, i think because it opposes the forward momentum of the ball, whereas topspin makes it grab the ground and tend to "get sticker to the ground " becuase the spin is similar to the momentum
Check your stance difference between your right and left serves. I suspect if you address that and have a little practice you will be able to serve well with your left hand :)
I've had a few players telling that my sidespin serve was illegal. I tell them that as long as I swing from low to high (making contact with the ball below the waistline), I'm perfectly legal. What's happening is that they don't know how to return the sidespin serve which there is a way. I have this video clip in my phone just in case to back up my legality.
This is a simple serve for anyone who’s played serious tennis in the past…it’s essentially the drop shot motion with a lot of spin. The one thing not mentioned in this video that will help master this serve for many people is to lessen the grip when “loading” the serve and keep it light until the swing is finished at the high point. The loose paddle will allow it to accelerate faster through the ball, which will generate the spin to make the serve effective..
It’s the same as “Full Western” in tennis 👍. Full western you are hitting a forehand, eastern backhand you’re hitting a backhand. I do not recommend full western to anyone. Will most likely result in wrist problems
I play 3.5, and I hit a really good screwball serve. Every other time i play, there are people who insist the serve is illegal. When I ask them why, some of them say I’m hitting the ball with a sideward motion instead of an upward motion. I never know what to tell them, so I switch to a drop serve.
This happens to me every serious rec game. But I'm accused of spinning the ball. They simply are unaccustomed to receiving a left handed top spin serve, it's really nothing more than that.
That’s a great question. I’d say cause it’s newer. Once they practice it, I think we will see it more as a change up every once in a while. Right now the best serve you can have to create an error is a deep, high, and fast serve.
I was a pretty good tennis player back in the day as well as a nearly unbeatable ping pong (table tennis) player. When I say unbeatable I mean I very rarely lost in my basement against all comets as well as vacation tournaments. That said, having never played pickleball and many of my fairly athletic friends boasting about how great they are at this new game, I borrowed a paddle, learned the basic rules while hitting some practice volleys and then beat every one of them pretty handily. I’m not how good they are but all were shocked and told me two of them regularly win local tournaments. I might have found a new game!
@@pickleballplaybook I do both of these serves. The drop spin serve spins on a different axis, vertical vs horizontal spin, so when it lands it kicks hard to the right. It's tougher to land though.
I've used the screwball serve for a few games, however, my opponents have been citing the serve being illegal because of the stroke's downward motion instead of upward motion...
When I look at you serving it seems to me that your forearm is either going down or flat prior to contacting the ball regardless of the upper arm movement. I believed that all components of the arm must be moving upward prior to contact which would make your serve questionable unless you hit the ball with a straight or unmoving elbow and wrist and the ball would have to well in front of your shoulder on point of contact. Then there are issues with below waist and paddle face being below wrist. Argh it’s these questions that make me want to eliminate volley serves. It would be interesting to see the serve from a side view.
I would disagree. A larger factor is the angle of the face of the paddle married with a forward movement. A downward chopping of your arm, and I see it in backhands especially, can still allow the ball to be propel forward and up over the net. The arm isn’t a simple lever but three levers making the rule that the arm must be moving upward more complex a requirement. I’ve recorded corkscrew serves from the side and I rarely see all of the arm moving upward. But I must confess your paddle grip might make a difference. Got to try it out. @@pickleballplaybook
Yeah, I sometimes see ppl that insist on pb serves that has a (legal) side (aka "corkscrew" or “scewball”) spin. Although, they only consistently ace beginners and low intermediates. Above that, it's like: "Who ya tryna impress, dude?! It's a freakin' whiffle ball!? Stop being "extra" and just get the rally started with no stinkin' side spin and beat me/us straight up! 🙄”. (Almost) nobody wants to play and/or watch a racket / paddle sport that’s just a battle of serves, which is what most pb (or any racket / paddle) games woulda become without serve rules. 🤔🙄 Should just require pb serves to be an underhanded toss like a softball pitch (or a crosscourt dink), the one-bounce requirement and rule allowance of serves landing (unlike with tennis) right at the baseline and ability to easily land a serve near there (even with an underhand toss) is plenty to keep most returns of serve returns returnable. This isn’t baseball. The primary *point* of serves and therefore serve rules is *not* to promote aces (like strikes in baseball) but to ensure that both: a) most serves are “reasonably” returnable *and* b) most *returns* of serve returns are “reasonably” returnable, so that *both* sides have had a “reasonable” chance to *return* the ball, so they can get a more interesting rally going.
Hey that’s awesome! That tennis background definitely helps 🤣. In tennis I would always practice hitting the edge when doing a kick serve and I could never seem to hit it. It always helped me get crazy kick on it though 🙌
This was called the "squib" serve in tennis. Michael Chang used it in the French open. Now tennis players are using it all the time. In pickleball it is new to people who never played tennis.
I started playing tennis at age 11. I only heard of Michael Chang recently but have definitely seen Nick Kyrgios do it a ton. I always thought Nick was the first to do it, so this is interesting 🧐 thanks for the comment!
The problem with this grip is unless you have learned to play with it, it will take a lot of time to learn to hit, otherwise you have to switch grips after the serve, typically too complicated for most people. I'm surprised to even see someone who knows how to hit it, typically the only people who know about it are old school racquetball players and Badminton.
Such a fun serve! Should be pretty easy for people to change their grip once they can hit it consistently since they’re back on the baseline. Wouldn’t recommend holding this grip up at the non volley zone 🙌
I like your explanation of techniques. I did laugh when you said, "Without the load, you're not to creat enough power to get it over the net." Then proceeds with a perfect serve with no load. Lol. Not a criticism, just made me laugh.
If they’re expecting a deep topspin serve, it’s a great change up! Like I talk about in the video, it’s not the serve that you should do every single time 💪👍
I love (receiving) this serve. I almost always win the point. Its really not a good serve against anyone that has reasonably good agility. Its so telegraphed as well... Does anyone NOT recognize it before it comes off the paddle?!? In almost all cases, it lands shorter and allows me a more aggressive return and an even shorter trip to the NVZ. On rare occasion, one can hit a deep one to the backhand from the AD side that can add pressure, but its simply not worth it overall. Use it once or twice per match at most and only if your opponent is really cheating on your normal serve and/or sleeping.
I wouldn't call that a screwball serve. That's a slice serve with the forehand. I do that serve all the time. If I could ever master getting some backspin on to it too I can get it over the net and it barely bounces up at all making it an extremely difficult server to return. I have finally figured out how to do it with my backhand serve too and have great success with it as well. The backhand serve works very well against left handed players. And again, it's not a corkscrew serve, it's a slice serve. One I'm trying to master is that serve (and he showed in one of his example serves) where you aim it into the court on the left and it slices and bounces in the right court. It's kind of freaky to see it coming at you wrong, then slices into your court and you have to deal with it. And again, this isn't a new serve. Several have been doing this type of serve for years now.
I think the origin of this word comes from baseball. In baseball, pitchers will tell you that a screwball curves in the opposite direction compared to the classic baseball curve. With a classic baseball curve, there is dominant topspin and the spin comes over the top, breaking a little to the non throwing side. The baseball screwball rolls off your fingers to move the ball to the throwing side. The difference between the baseball screwball and the pickleball screwball is the axis of rotation, which tends to make the pickleball screwball jump to the serving side after the bounce. So, the jump is enhanced if you put some lob into the ball. It's a novelty surprise for beginner opponents but most learn to recognize and anticipate the direction of bounce based on the swing.
In Pickleball it is called a Screwball serve, and the spin is actually side top spin not back spin. It is top spin because with his grip and paddle angle as his arm moves up he is striking the back side of the ball driving the spin up and to the side.
The swing doesn’t have to start in an upward direction. Everyone’s topspin serve starts in a downward direction as they draw a C and then finish upward. The rule states that the arm must be moving in an upward arc when it makes contact with the ball. It’d be impossible to hit the ball over the net without it moving in an upward arc, it’d simply go down and to the side of it didn’t go up 👍
Why do you think this is new? I use it and variations from when I started about five years ago. It is a side spin, not a screw ball serve. And besides, have you not watched any tournaments for the past several years or the thousands of other instruction videos?
I actually thought this was one of your best videos yet! Not just because of the content (i'm excited to learn it), but because you explained it very clearly. You're improving as a content creator and it's exciting to see!
I appreciate this! Glad it was helpful!
I use this serve since a while and I can say he did a great job explaining it for all to learn.
Well done. (therefore, in hope to see something new ... I subscribed)
I appreciate it! More to come
I have to say this was a very good description of exactly how to do this serve. So many videos show the motion or what to do but don’t break it down in simple terms. Well done!
Glad it was helpful!
I've been doing this since my table tennis days and into my pickleball 1st year. This is very effective in pulling the returner wide and thus creating a gap between the two opponents in doubles. Used it just effectively in single as well to open up the court. Glad you made a tutorial video to share with everyone ... thumbs up !!! ps... I do this with my backhanded kick out wide serve on the even service box as well.
That’s what many have said! Awesome serve!
Austin, great how to video! I appreciate the time you took to discuss it as you broke it down. That serve's output is exactly how my screwball serve looks (it's SO much fun to watch opponents not even swing at the serve as they thought it was going out and can't react as it curves back in) but I use my standard continental grip. I will try the backhand eastern grip to see if that adds any power. Anyways, thanks again for a great video! :)
Glad it was helpful! The grip will add more spin actually. Power will be the same! Enjoy
I just hit a couple hundred of these yesterday (practicing alone). Wish I'd seen this video prior to that, but I am excited to work on this serve using the tips provided in your video.
Coming from a competitive frisbee background, I liken the motion to that of a forehand grip sidearm throw in Ultimate or disc golf.
You got this!
Just subscribed to your channel due to this excellent instructional video. Nicely done!
Thanks for the sub!
I was legit yelled at by a rec player at the local park that this serve was illegal. He was so competitive that he wouldn’t allow me to use this serve. I guess he thought he was losing only because of the serve, but I still beat him pretty badly with a regular topspin serve 😂
I think it is illegal
Play in a different group hahaha
It is not 👍 @157von
@@ObiWon1089why? Pickleball is fun but it’s not nearly as fun as tennis especially since you say you’re a 5.0 player
He starts up then down then to the side . Arnt you sepose to start from down to up then do the side crap
Love that serve one of my favorites awesome to see you break it down and makes it so much easier to achieve thanks man
Glad to help! Thanks for the comment ❤️
Thank you for sharing this video with me on IG. This is an excellent tutorial for learning the screwball serve in pickleball.
Glad it was helpful!
I love that serve!! I save it when we have a comfortable lead because it's either an ace, or we loose the point shortly after and I get the look from my partner LOL
Hahaha exactly bro! It’s a make or break for sure
Great video. I'm going to try and add this to my game. I would have liked to see some instructions on the stance/foot placement for this.
Noted!
Best spin serve tutorial I've seen so far. 👏
Wow, thanks!
Excellent tutorial. Thanks!
You're welcome!
Great video man. The strategy/purpose of the serve, breakdown, hand placement/paddle position… great coaching and I didn’t cost me 50$/hr
I needed more serves to add to my arsenal, definitely gonna practice and make this screwball serve a go-to. Thx G. 🤙
Glad it was helpful!
excellent video and explanation. i have been working on this serve to add to my arsenal when i am serving from the left/ad court so i looked for some on line instruction . I didn't try the grip change, that makes a lot of sense. BTW, i think it is worth noting that this may be more effective when using an open stance. Agree? i use a closed stance for my basic serves and have been slightly opening it for the screwball. Maybe i need to open it more.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you
Great video! Been practicing this and I think it would be super helpful if you could tell us at what point you make contact with the ball. I find if I make contact too low at the bottom of the paddle it spins way out to my right, and if I make contact higher up with more paddle, it stays low and/or hard and often hits the net or goes out.. 🙏🙏
Will do!
I am a lefty and have this serve, but I did not know why? Tks for explaining it. to pull them off the court. Also, have a serve, not thinking anyone is doing, maybe I just have not seen it. It is a backhand brush of this forehand. I drop it on the ground and brush a backhand across the ball. With the added serve, I can kick them out off the court on either side. 10:11
Smart! Yeah that backhand side can be super helpful to get it to spin the other way
I've used the serve for a while. Bottom line is it works on lower level players, but maybe once on a 3.5 or higher player. They are not that hard to return. I use it in a mix of serve types, but would not depend on it. A fast deep serve still works best.
Interesting! 🧐
I guess when you said it worked you meant winning the point with the serve. In my experience, even 4.0 players would get surprised by it and hit a sloppy return which gives me an advantage as a server.
Yeah it’s a good change up! Can catch people off guard
It's not hard to return if you anticipate the bounce bit it does open a gap if your partner doesn't close the gap.
Great video! Returning this serve is tough, I've been able to return it when I recognize the type of serve and do a pickup close to the ground as opposed to letting it gain height and spin out on me. Suggestions on returning this type of serve successfully are welcome, Tx
Glad I could help!
You correctly identified the best defense against the spin serve. Identify it early and hit it right off the ground. Of course that might take you off the court and out of position .
Why would hitting it “right off the ground” be more likely to “take you *off* the court and out of position”??? That means you would be attacking the ball *sooner* which would bring you *closer* to if not (for serves that land farther *in* from the baseline l) *on* the “court”.
Crouch so that you can barely see the ball above the net cord as the server's paddle contacts the ball. You will pick up any lateral motion instantly using the net cord as a visual reference.
I've used this serve for a few years along with a couple of others. It definitely throws people off when I start with a bland serve. This grip is how my tennis coach taught me to serve in tennis way back in middle school.
Woh, your coach was on drugs hahahah continental should have been what was taught
@@pickleballplaybook Haha, she probably was... This was in France... And that's how I remember it, I could certainly be misremembering 25 years later...lol
I've been using this serve occasionally for a while. It can really catch the returner by surprise and delay them getting to the kitchen. A little disguise of what you are going to do doesn't hurt either.
Also, it helps target the backhand serving from either side if an opponent struggles with that stroke.
Exactly! It’s a good change up
i spent an hour developing it with my partner 3.0 with recent knee replacement surgery. he got most back and said not hard to deal with. only when i spun it short, just past the kitchen in the corner was it effective. works great with older less mobile players when hit short and lots of spin.
Nice 👍
I've been doing that exact serve since they outlawed the pre-spin. However, my success rate has been low so I don't use it in competition. I am going to try switching to the eastern grip and see if that would help. Thanks for the tips.
Just make sure it’s eastern backhand, and not eastern forehand and you’ll do great!
I just figured this out on my own the other day while practicing by myself, but with continental. It tends to lift up and dive down at the end, like it also has some topspin on it. I pulled it on my kid the next day as my second serve in the game. It hit right at his feet but looked out, and he just stood there. I asked him if it was good and he said, “Not for me!” Now I just need to execute it against that one guy I play at rec that keeps doing spin serves on me and I’ll be happy. I’ll try it with the grip you showed tonight.
Let’s go!!!
For the first time in my 72 years, I wish I was right handed. My screwball serve spins right to an opponents forehand.
Haha the pros put way the cons still hopefully!
I’d like to know where to place my feet - parallel to the baseline or perpendicular (as you did when serving lefty from deuce side)?
In addition, if using a drop serve, where do you drop the ball - in front of right foot?
Thanks.
In front and slightly to the right of you with a drop serve. I stand open stance because I am right eye dominant and righty. When I serve left it makes more sense to stand closed stance because it puts my right eye in the front when serving to the right side. My right eye goes to the front when serving on the left side with an open stance. Hopefully that makes sense!
For some of us who started serving like this from the beginning it has never gone away or been declared illegal! Try using the bounce service to hit spinning serves as well as backhands
you can hit backhanded serves on a volley as well.
@@chandlereyre8792 yes you can I've been working on that. I have always dropped until now!
Not illegal 👍
Very well explained. Are you using the Luxx invicta? If so how do you like it? Do you have a review on it? What are your likes and dislikes? Thanks
I love it and yes it’s the Invikta! Favorite paddle I’ve ever used. Only thing I don’t like is that the spin wears down over time.
www.selkirk.com/products/luxx-control-air-invikta?sca_ref=4516571.n0z0Xqk6sI
@@pickleballplaybook Did you find the power to be satisfactory? Did you add lead? Thanks
Power is great. I’d say it’s very similar to a 16mm paddle. It doesn’t feel 20mm. I add lead to help with control, not power. The resets and dinking feel like a walk in the park
@@pickleballplaybook Thanks, I have the Invicta Air and being a pretty new-ish guy controlling the dinks at the kitchen can be a bit of a challenge.
Invikta are is the most advanced paddle of all of them. If you have a ton of practice and want more power, that’s the one to go with! If you’re struggling with control, I’d strongly suggest the control air 👍
It's fun to have the on both forehand and backhand sides (need to do drop serve for backhand) then you can pull returners off the court on both sides.
Yeah I need to practice the backhand side! Would be cool to pull out
Great tutorial! Will this be as effective with a drop serve?
Probably much easier to do with a drop serve. I’ll try it out when I’m on the courts Monday!
I also have the drop serve question.
I’m addition, I noticed that when serving right handed, your feet (toes) are parallel to the base line. But when serving left handed from the deuce court, your feet are perpendicular to the base line. Please explain. 0:48
I don’t know how to serve lefty haha. Just was doing my best honestly
I've used that grip for forhand and backhand since the early 80's. It's seriously overlooked in all racketsports except Badminton where they use it a lot. It was useful in racquetball to hit backhands flat, but took some adaptation for forehands. This was in the day when racquetball was the pickleball of the times and they let the manufacturers turn it into a goofy silly game with bigger and bigger rackets and ever faster balls. It was called the frying pan grip in racquetball as it is like picking up a skillet on the stove. In sports like squash and pickleball where you want spin it is also an effective forehand drive if you flex the head of the racket foreward, it creates a rifling spin with that is extremely accurate and a low skipping bounce that is difficult to field
Wow that’s an impressive amount of time!
I finally got it, thanks to you! You earned this sub 😊
Thanks for the sub!
Great looking serve. Not having tried it yet, but looks like this serve is more conducive from a closed stance vs. open? Or is this not the case? Not that this is an issue, other than telling the opponent what serve is or may be coming. However, if executed correctly, still gives them issues.
I have done this serve for my entire pickleball career (which started after the spin and chainsaw were already banned) and dont have a telegraphing problem. I recommend that you do all your serves starting from a closed stance, and then if you elect to do this one, line your routing up the same, but step your front foot 2 feet to open your stance right before the drop. This should be done almost instantaneously. It lets you pull through the motion a bit with your body and completely removes the ability to read your serve prior.
I am not a tournament player yet, but I can still manage to get aces sometimes and weak returns frequently from verifiable 4.5+ opponents. This should be done as a change-up, particularly after one or two really effective deep, topspin serves. You will see your opponent change their lineup and that's where you either hit it short, spinning out or deep, up the center line spinning into them.
I’d say it’s much easier to achieve with an open stance cause it keeps your legs out of the way of your sideways movement 👍. I hit with an open stance on almost every serve
I use open stance for all my serves. I find that I get more power that way. The best server in the world also uses an open stance. If done correctly it can be lethal
Excellent video- great explanation
Glad it was helpful!
Great addition to any serve routine if you can master it. That serve will tear up that paint grit on your
LUXX really fast.
That’s for sure!! Haha
Good stuff! Thanls for the tips!
Glad you enjoyed! Let me know how it’s coming along 😄
As a lefty, thank you at least making the attempt
Brothers gotta help brothers!!
9-years in…
Oh yeahhhh!!!
I love this, serve, and have been doing it for quite a few months now, I actually just aced a guy the other day when I was serving from the left side and went hard right angle, just outside the kitchen, he called illegal, serve because he could not get to it
Nice!!
I'm gonna try that tonight. So basically your thumb is on top? Hate going into games without practice though. Nice video!
Definitely get some practice in! It’s hard to master. Very effective serve 🤝
Btw I’ve been doing this serve recently and it works. It’s awesome. Need to keep practicing it for my upcoming tournament.
Great to hear!
Great breakdown, thanks Austin!
My pleasure!
Brutal!!! Thank you Austin...
Glad you enjoyed it!
If I was playing against you, that grip is a tell that you are going wacky spin, and I would adjust accordingly. However, I am definitely going to work on this one.😄
Very true. It’s all about the disguise!
How much difference does a high end paddle make. I have a head radical pro and get some spin but maybe 6-1 2 inches only.
It makes a big difference on spin. Rpm’s wise it goes from about 900 (cheap paddle) to 2000 (high end paddle).
Thanks
Interesting. Been doing this serve with regular continental and there is a ton of spin and side jump. Wrist snap makes a real difference.
Yes! You can get tons of spin and even more spin the further over you hold it
Can you hit that serve as effectively from the right side?
Yes!
Mm?? Never thought to shift hand grip to 'eastern grip'. Must try this.. thanks heaps!!
You bet! Thanks for subbing!
I often use this same spin a return a serve, it causes the 3rd shot (the server) to pop up the ball and leave an open space for my teammate to put away with a slam.
That’s cool!
i dont understand why it causes the returner (the server) to pop up the ball. spin continuation causes a ball hit to someone with cut spin , or underhand spin, to gear down against the paddle, not gear up. try hitting topspin against the wall and then cut or underhand spin against a wall. the former makes it climb up the wall and the latter makes it climb down after impact. one person i play against tends to hit hard drives ,, but without much topspin imparted, he often hits my returns into the net when i cut under the ball to him. he gets frustrated playing me , because he gets away with flat drives more often against players that are hitting topspin returns to him. i dont think he understands spin continuation and doesnt adjust to those returns. cutspin makes the ball sit up more (bounce higher) when it hits the ground, i think because it opposes the forward momentum of the ball, whereas topspin makes it grab the ground and tend to "get sticker to the ground " becuase the spin is similar to the momentum
Check your stance difference between your right and left serves. I suspect if you address that and have a little practice you will be able to serve well with your left hand :)
Okay cool. You said check my stance but didn’t give any instruction. What should my stance be? Thanks in advance 🤝
I've had a few players telling that my sidespin serve was illegal. I tell them that as long as I swing from low to high (making contact with the ball below the waistline), I'm perfectly legal. What's happening is that they don't know how to return the sidespin serve which there is a way. I have this video clip in my phone just in case to back up my legality.
Exactly! Low to high and contact below the wrist and waist!
I save this serve for the final
Point. I just get it over the nvz line and out the side. Love it!
That’s impressive if you can hit that spot consistently! Nice work
I love the grip explanation! The bevel system is where it's at!
Thanks for the feedback! Will continue to do this
Interesting that you change grip…I can execute this serve with a continental grip and hit a pretty nasty corkscrew that moves at least 2-3 ft
Impressive! If you change grips your paddle becomes at a greater angle for more spin. Try it next time and let me know how it goes!
I use that serve and I also vary my speed to keep my opponent off balance.
Sick! You’re ahead of the game
What does it matter if you don’t get two bounces from the serve?
Huh?
This is awesome. Unfortunately I drop serve. Hope this method works with that.
It does!
This is a simple serve for anyone who’s played serious tennis in the past…it’s essentially the drop shot motion with a lot of spin.
The one thing not mentioned in this video that will help master this serve for many people is to lessen the grip when “loading” the serve and keep it light until the swing is finished at the high point. The loose paddle will allow it to accelerate faster through the ball, which will generate the spin to make the serve effective..
Love it! Thanks for the added instruction. Very helpful
Can this be done with a drop serve?
Yes!
Thank you
You're welcome
You can do the opposite spin too where it goes right to left. But that's me as a tennis player talking
Correct!
Eastern Backhand. Is that not the same as a Western grip. I'm from tennis.
It’s the same as “Full Western” in tennis 👍. Full western you are hitting a forehand, eastern backhand you’re hitting a backhand. I do not recommend full western to anyone. Will most likely result in wrist problems
Thanks! Been working the spin serve in - but haven’t thought about the grip. I’ll try again tomorrow in our mixed session.
Nice! This should help!
I play 3.5, and I hit a really good screwball serve. Every other time i play, there are people who insist the serve is illegal. When I ask them why, some of them say I’m hitting the ball with a sideward motion instead of an upward motion. I never know what to tell them, so I switch to a drop serve.
This happens to me every serious rec game. But I'm accused of spinning the ball. They simply are unaccustomed to receiving a left handed top spin serve, it's really nothing more than that.
Haha they are people I wouldn’t want to play with!
I’ve oversimplified this serve to the inquisitive: hit the ball at the 7 o’clock mark and swipe up. I like your explanation a lot better!
Excellent!
Backhand eastern? You mean continental grip?
No. Backhand Eastern is not continental. You need to be in backhand eastern if you have a one hander
I like this serve but no pros are using this serve, why?
That’s a great question. I’d say cause it’s newer. Once they practice it, I think we will see it more as a change up every once in a while. Right now the best serve you can have to create an error is a deep, high, and fast serve.
In my opinion, it’s because it’s illegal. But I’m not an expert. Futur will tell.
I was a pretty good tennis player back in the day as well as a nearly unbeatable ping pong (table tennis) player. When I say unbeatable I mean I very rarely lost in my basement against all comets as well as vacation tournaments. That said, having never played pickleball and many of my fairly athletic friends boasting about how great they are at this new game, I borrowed a paddle, learned the basic rules while hitting some practice volleys and then beat every one of them pretty handily. I’m not how good they are but all were shocked and told me two of them regularly win local tournaments. I might have found a new game!
Interesting. Thats cool. Would love to play you in pong. I think I’d smoke you ;)
It is a problem getting it to go very far. About the only significant jump to the right is when it is short.
Yeah it can be sometimes!
I get even more spin by using the drop serve. Throw it in maybe once a game and often gets success.
That actually makes a lot of sense! Why do you think that is?
@@pickleballplaybook I do both of these serves. The drop spin serve spins on a different axis, vertical vs horizontal spin, so when it lands it kicks hard to the right. It's tougher to land though.
I've used the screwball serve for a few games, however, my opponents have been citing the serve being illegal because of the stroke's downward motion instead of upward motion...
Nice! I really like it and that is definitely not true. It is for sure legal 👍
Why when I try it the ball goes high in the air? Can't make it go straight.
Put your paddle face outward and forward more rather than upward 👌
When I look at you serving it seems to me that your forearm is either going down or flat prior to contacting the ball regardless of the upper arm movement. I believed that all components of the arm must be moving upward prior to contact which would make your serve questionable unless you hit the ball with a straight or unmoving elbow and wrist and the ball would have to well in front of your shoulder on point of contact. Then there are issues with below waist and paddle face being below wrist. Argh it’s these questions that make me want to eliminate volley serves. It would be interesting to see the serve from a side view.
In order to get your serve to go over the net you’d have to be hitting up and the point of contact. Hopefully that helps clarify 👍
I would disagree. A larger factor is the angle of the face of the paddle married with a forward movement. A downward chopping of your arm, and I see it in backhands especially, can still allow the ball to be propel forward and up over the net. The arm isn’t a simple lever but three levers making the rule that the arm must be moving upward more complex a requirement. I’ve recorded corkscrew serves from the side and I rarely see all of the arm moving upward. But I must confess your paddle grip might make a difference. Got to try it out. @@pickleballplaybook
@@BrianKillick-ud9kn His arm is moving up and to the side. Any downward motion is in his wind up before any contact with the ball.
Interesting 🤔
Correct! ✅ thanks friend
Yeah, I sometimes see ppl that insist on pb serves that has a (legal) side (aka "corkscrew" or “scewball”) spin. Although, they only consistently ace beginners and low intermediates. Above that, it's like: "Who ya tryna impress, dude?! It's a freakin' whiffle ball!? Stop being "extra" and just get the rally started with no stinkin' side spin and beat me/us straight up! 🙄”.
(Almost) nobody wants to play and/or watch a racket / paddle sport that’s just a battle of serves, which is what most pb (or any racket / paddle) games woulda become without serve rules. 🤔🙄 Should just require pb serves to be an underhanded toss like a softball pitch (or a crosscourt dink), the one-bounce requirement and rule allowance of serves landing (unlike with tennis) right at the baseline and ability to easily land a serve near there (even with an underhand toss) is plenty to keep most returns of serve returns returnable. This isn’t baseball. The primary *point* of serves and therefore serve rules is *not* to promote aces (like strikes in baseball) but to ensure that both: a) most serves are “reasonably” returnable *and* b) most *returns* of serve returns are “reasonably” returnable, so that *both* sides have had a “reasonable” chance to *return* the ball, so they can get a more interesting rally going.
👍👍👍
Hey yo, I hit it the first time - I admit though, that I have a few years of tennis experience so that probs helped
Hey that’s awesome! That tennis background definitely helps 🤣. In tennis I would always practice hitting the edge when doing a kick serve and I could never seem to hit it. It always helped me get crazy kick on it though 🙌
This was called the "squib" serve in tennis. Michael Chang used it in the French open. Now tennis players are using it all the time. In pickleball it is new to people who never played tennis.
I started playing tennis at age 11. I only heard of Michael Chang recently but have definitely seen Nick Kyrgios do it a ton. I always thought Nick was the first to do it, so this is interesting 🧐 thanks for the comment!
ua-cam.com/users/shortsw-PJ30M5Dno?si=jMmI55SlGaMM_g6g
First, also love your videos and the great friendly tips! 👍🏼
Oh yeah!! I appreciate it
The problem with this grip is unless you have learned to play with it, it will take a lot of time to learn to hit, otherwise you have to switch grips after the serve, typically too complicated for most people. I'm surprised to even see someone who knows how to hit it, typically the only people who know about it are old school racquetball players and Badminton.
Such a fun serve! Should be pretty easy for people to change their grip once they can hit it consistently since they’re back on the baseline. Wouldn’t recommend holding this grip up at the non volley zone 🙌
New? Been around for a long time
:)
I like your explanation of techniques. I did laugh when you said, "Without the load, you're not to creat enough power to get it over the net."
Then proceeds with a perfect serve with no load. Lol. Not a criticism, just made me laugh.
Haha true. When you’re as good as me, you rarely miss. Regardless of what you do ;) just kidding 😂
@@pickleballplaybook Hahaha. So true. Hahaha.
I was doing this serve 5 years ago.
You’re a legend 💪
this is hard to replicate lol
Haha practice makes perfect!
This is not a new serve. I have been serving this way since 2018 with plenty of aces.
You're a legend my friend!
Seems too slow and shallow that an athletic player could return it and be upfront pretty easy?
If they’re expecting a deep topspin serve, it’s a great change up! Like I talk about in the video, it’s not the serve that you should do every single time 💪👍
i already do this serve without all the instruction
Why’d you watch the video then 🧐
@@pickleballplaybook wanted to see if your technique was any good ...
Interesting 🧐
I feel like I could really hit hard in pickle ball. Idk why. Probably because everything looks so slow.
Play with an experienced player and it doesn’t seem so slow😊
No doubt!
In tennis we call this an underhand slice serve. Pickle ball is so behind😂😂😂😂
That’s why pickleball is cooler my friend. Cooler names 🙌
@@pickleballplaybook let me ask you this. Why is an overhead smash is allowed in pickleball but overhead serve is not?
You changed the grip part way through. There was much less spin when that happened.
😂
I love (receiving) this serve. I almost always win the point. Its really not a good serve against anyone that has reasonably good agility. Its so telegraphed as well... Does anyone NOT recognize it before it comes off the paddle?!? In almost all cases, it lands shorter and allows me a more aggressive return and an even shorter trip to the NVZ.
On rare occasion, one can hit a deep one to the backhand from the AD side that can add pressure, but its simply not worth it overall. Use it once or twice per match at most and only if your opponent is really cheating on your normal serve and/or sleeping.
Noice 👍👍
I hit it 3 times on the outside edge. HAHA
You’re impressive haha
Ironically, I can't hit the screwball serve yet but your video was really helpful. I'm going to try again.@@pickleballplaybook
You’ll get it! Just keep practicing
I wouldn't call that a screwball serve. That's a slice serve with the forehand. I do that serve all the time. If I could ever master getting some backspin on to it too I can get it over the net and it barely bounces up at all making it an extremely difficult server to return. I have finally figured out how to do it with my backhand serve too and have great success with it as well. The backhand serve works very well against left handed players. And again, it's not a corkscrew serve, it's a slice serve.
One I'm trying to master is that serve (and he showed in one of his example serves) where you aim it into the court on the left and it slices and bounces in the right court. It's kind of freaky to see it coming at you wrong, then slices into your court and you have to deal with it. And again, this isn't a new serve. Several have been doing this type of serve for years now.
If the ball kicks to the side, it's a screwball serve. A simple slice serve doesn't have side kick.
💋
I think the origin of this word comes from baseball. In baseball, pitchers will tell you that a screwball curves in the opposite direction compared to the classic baseball curve. With a classic baseball curve, there is dominant topspin and the spin comes over the top, breaking a little to the non throwing side. The baseball screwball rolls off your fingers to move the ball to the throwing side. The difference between the baseball screwball and the pickleball screwball is the axis of rotation, which tends to make the pickleball screwball jump to the serving side after the bounce. So, the jump is enhanced if you put some lob into the ball. It's a novelty surprise for beginner opponents but most learn to recognize and anticipate the direction of bounce based on the swing.
Interesting!
In Pickleball it is called a Screwball serve, and the spin is actually side top spin not back spin. It is top spin because with his grip and paddle angle as his arm moves up he is striking the back side of the ball driving the spin up and to the side.
How is this not an illegal serve. Just because you finish high. You can easily finish high on any slice shot.
It’s not illegal because I am swinging low to help high prior to contacting the ball.
How is it illegal? There is NOTHING in the current 2024 rulebook that makes this illegal.
@@going2Mars swinging high to low is not legal. Its in the rulebook
You need to be stepping into the shot and turn your body more… you will get a better result….
Love it
Why nobody within the pros is using it?
A lot of them will throw this serve in randomly. At that level it doesn’t do much since your opponents are so good!
The swing is supposed to start in an upward motion. Your swing starts in a downward motion.
Where's the rule that says that?
The swing doesn’t have to start in an upward direction. Everyone’s topspin serve starts in a downward direction as they draw a C and then finish upward.
The rule states that the arm must be moving in an upward arc when it makes contact with the ball. It’d be impossible to hit the ball over the net without it moving in an upward arc, it’d simply go down and to the side of it didn’t go up 👍
@joshrockwell1470 No rule says that 👍 False info
@@pickleballplaybook lots of false info out there. Keep up with the great videos! And you may have finally convinced me to try the Hesacore.
It's supposed to CONTACT in am upward direction. You can start the swing however you want.
I am told this is on a legal serve due to downward motion
Not true. It’s upward 👍
Hey yo, I hit it
You’re a legend!!!
Hey Yo I hit it
Let’s go!!!
I thought a spin on your serve was illegal now?
Only if you spin with your hands
Read the rules.
Toddler Tennis
💋
Why do you think this is new? I use it and variations from when I started about five years ago. It is a side spin, not a screw ball serve. And besides, have you not watched any tournaments for the past several years or the thousands of other instruction videos?
I invented this