Quest for a Spiritual Home: First Panel Discussion after PVK and Pageau Talks
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2024
- This was the third session of the first day in the Quest for a Spiritual Home Conference.
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The fun between Jonathan Pageau and John Vervaeke is overwhelmingly infectious. Those are the moments. Such a joy to see you two together. Like Judzia Dax and Warf Son of Mogh, except not erotic but rather Agapic. *tosses a comment to the algorithm*
There's even better yet to come. :)
"Memory is a compost pile" should be a framed embroidery on my wall.
Even better than the last video. Thanks for helping me to prepare to stand at Sinai tomorrow
"the reason why we remember something is because we care about it" what a great truth shared by pageau
I recently watched my mother go through a memory test in which she failed miserably at remembering three unrelated objects a couple minutes after they were spoken to her, and she couldn't verbally reverse a sequence of numbers greater than two, but when the therapist told her a short story and then quizzed her on the details, she got every one of them right. Hearing stories about human lives is relevant to us; we care about them so we remember them.
Thank you so much for sharing this, Paul ❤ this is beautiful. On memory- for me it is pleasant when tied to gratitude. Ps , those are the tiniest water bottles i have ever seen. I love John's analogy of how memory is like a compost pile not a computer file. Another takeaway i got was :listen to your gut.
Loving all these talks, Paul. You guys and the organizers all did a great job. I hope to attend one of these conferences in person in the future!
25:38 "Do you have a sense of that in your life right now?" That is THE question. That is what the Christian, when living in close union with Christ, has, and invites others to seek for themselves.
Took a lifetime to experience this every day ... rather than my normal cultural experience. It is hard on the child to lose childlike innocence, harder still to become re-enchanted with Life in spite of all the disappointment
Working in a garden, keeps you free from nostalgia and utopia.
They echo what I've long thought myself.
The major missed element with Sysiphus is that his rock is doomed to keep rolling back down. Part of his curse isn't the rock, we all have one we're stuck with, but he is condemned to make the same mistake over and over while others can learn to roll their rock in better directions even if they do still slide back down here and there.
What if the most perfect me at 20 (suitor) or 35 (father) isnt the most perfect me at 70 (patriarch) or 120 or even in one time after death than the next? Not because im constantly improving but because transjectively my fittedness to the circumstances is always dynamic?
What if the goal, even beyond this life/world/Age is, and will always be, dynamic rest, forever up and in, toward God, who no matter how much we transcend and reach, will always remain Infinitely Beyond?
For the Christian, rest is found in Christ (with regards to our righteousness deficit being fulfilled)
But there very well may be other dimensions to our existence where what you put forth may be the way we will operate.
John V: "Your memory is more of a compost pile than a computer file.". Priceless.
19:22 "Do not go gentle into that good night..," by Dylan Thomas. "Rage against the dying of the light etc"
You cannot "taste and see that He is good" a character who exists only in the mythological. To properly taste and see that He is good, one almost certainly must take a leap to assume His existence transcending the mythological. I cannot taste a burger by licking the menu.
To live is to risk, to risk is to die eventually. Who can face this?
@@williambranch4283 To the extent that you are intimately aware of how vastly beautiful and horrible life can be, you can face both life and death not only courageously, but perhaps even joyfully.
@@agapologia When I drink orange juice just now, I taste how sweet life can be.
@@williambranch4283 certainly to some degree, possibly to a great degree
@@agapologia Price to be paid, I am diabetic ;-(
Thanks everyone!
I knew some monks who made the most of the feast available when they visited our church! Doggy bags were provided!
A time to fast and a time to feast!
@@Ac-ip5hd Indeed! And do both with thanksgiving.
@@anselman3156 Yes! ua-cam.com/video/6vBg9nS9m_8/v-deo.html
shadows under stands at noon are the pains in the illusion of two.
I am great full. This exchange will help me to begin.
Truly excellent. Everything I could have wished for from this panel. Much thanks to all of you!
❤❤❤
Gold again!
Dat gum it your fast. Can one actually exceed the speed of light? You may be pushing internet physics on this channel.
34:00 memory is a compost pile not a computer file. Brilliant. Had to look up fecund
I love how quickly this became an altar call for John Vervaeke. 😆
"Thingy ness" and our preoccupation with it reminds me of McGilchrists "The Matter With Things".
I need to talk to JV about compost.
All the Parables of Jesus about the Kingdom of Heaven are secrets about Homecoming.
19:04 “…trying to hold on and grasp…” paradox…….you can also rage.
🙏i love to listen to this conversations ,the feeling of honest sharing ...
I enjoyed this conversation.
Paul: "Woody Allen is the lobster fundamentalist."
The image I got from Pageau's reply to VVK's question about the infinite beyond of the afterlife is a boy contemplating his own feelings and thoughts, identifying with them in their immediacy but also marveling at the infinite possibilities of being that would be accessible to him and not just merely more appropriate, but also perhaps more fulfilling ways of being. "How else could I feel and be?" without judgment of how he feels, understanding his experience as truly and uniquely his, while also containing all of humanity within him and the possibility to inhabit that infinite humanity in a finite way that is only available to them in their particularity, participating in the secret mystery of their own mystical experience of God in its grandest most universalizing humanity; as a complete person having a unique experience of the finite creation made infinite in time and complexity, knowing he's part of a handful of truly special creatures to have been gifted the opportunity of being fully human. I imagined it as being truly immersed in being, knowing that the bounded infinity becomes boundless when it accepts its limitation. More will come!
Moving UP???
Why stop there!!!😊
If anyone can help me I’m looking for jvv mentioning money as a compost pile
Lol i know exactly the point Jacob was trying to make- i hope he clarified it later
48:40 PVK this gets into Rabbi Sack's essay on Bible as History vs Memory
I’d buy this T-shirt:
“If I can have the lobsters…”
-PVK
“Then Jordan Peterson will show up!”
-JVV
~45 minutes in
Paul as far as songs go look no further than the first bit of Like a prayer or Everything I do Bryan Adams in the charts a record No of weeks - could be a commitment to Christ - Eros into Agape!?
God may not be a thing, but He did become a man and lay out some things that pertain to us. Orthodoxy kept Neoplatonism in it’s proper transfigured place that Bishop Merratta severely problematized Vervaeke’s Eastern scientific/Neoplatonic position with, and with the essences and energies distinction. This and the Logos, Logoi, and logismi distinctions account for this apophatic theology we can address like Neoplatonism, one and many problems, while still having some absolute statements and the ability to address evil John, Buddhism, and Neoplatonism are all insufficient in.
To constantly turn flux, process, and no-thingness into an idol leads to an antihuman theology that is impersonal and demonic without man as image of God. There can be no true rest in this model, and how it turns out big picture is the Fabian transhumanists, gnosticism, occultism, and totalitarian recollectivization of the many into the one. It’s critiques of gnosticism, occultism, transhumanism, and idolatry are inconseqntial and where these projects always end up statistically, historically, and serially. Just like all the old testament prophets rebuked constantly, the early Christians manned up and defeated, and contemporary prophets and Saints rebuked in spiritist Russia and Babylon Berlin, and our current Babylon.
The monastic does not exist alone, even when a hypocrite or failure, he exists in the total body of the church with us laity and married priests *and Saints living and dead who achieved the ultimate struggle*. There is the back and forth there. It inspires us who must be down to earth and basic to struggle to our capacity and continually repent, seek God, and do works, while having connection to not just the monks, but the Saints who actually upheld the tightest part of the bow. Like St. Seraphim who spent 1,000 days on a rock in prayer, St. John on the pillar, the witnesses and martyrs up to the new martyrs, St Silouan who kept his mind in Hell and did not despair.
It’s a game of sophistry and self deception to think we can get our porridge just right without a place and example of the ultimate struggle. All those strugglers in the Holy Spirit possesed it enough to be understanding and forgiving, kind and loving rather than pharisee-ical. They aim at a positive love of God and their neighbor rather than identifying against, love and invigoration before fear of the wrath of God, knowing most people cannot struggle to that degree and God does not tempt them beyond what they cannot endure.
This is put into context as well with the raging against the dying of the light. The fight and anger are not the thing, but there is a place for dispassionate hatred of evil, the Kingdom of Heaven suffering violence, and spiritual combat which is worked out with serious sophistication and is not just reducible to a “having mode” be the secularizers of religion who now think they have mastered and updated these things via these projects.
I think a caricature of that is made quite often to excuse an easier route and to avoid a stronger tradition and theology.
I see you a lot on the COTEL, Dyer, Crucible side of UA-cam. Glad to see people from that part engage with PVK. Good word, brother!
@@nathankurtz5960 God bless brother. Did you see the talk COTEL just had on gardens and biblical semiotics that did a great job addressing all the great ways we are provided with a space for creativity and connection to nature within the Royal Path?
I think it’s a great topic for these spaces that will come up as Pageau is now talking to DPH and the Orthosphere.
….the tightest part of the bow…….helpful image, thank you….maybe a passionate hatred of evil though…….the tight part of the bow is one seeing place to be and there are no niceties……….any more thoughts on the Celtic raging in the gales…..N Americans don’t rage, they eat in stead……..
Vervaeke - Plato trumps Homer
Achilles - Hold my ouzo
~37 min., when they're talking about eschatology all time, it sounds to me like Pageau is saying something like (in Vervaekean terms): "Heavenly Jerusalem / The Holy City is the through-line of Civilization." It's not a single Aspect of any particular civilization (or parts/features thereof).
Is that
Evolution of the Human kind created the Mythology! but now that we have moved from the habitat we evolved in into the habitat that we created everything up for grabs, Everything has to be reevaluated redefined. Can We Do It Without getting it all tangled up in linguistic realm?
Nous trumps logos.
The Christian vision of the afterlife is not utopia but restoration. The Bible and Christian tradition clearly warns against the instinct for utopia. To give a concrete example, when I think of heaven one of the things I think of is dancing with my paternal grandfather. Not a utopian vision in a normal sense. Dancing is an ordinary activity that literally millions of people enjoy everyday. The joy in normal physical movement though was something that was taken from my grandpa Scott. He was fit and active well into his seventies before being immobilized from a stroke that left him wheel chair bound for the last decade of his life.
I don't know how technically true this vision is. Maybe, when I awake before my maker it will be like coming out of a sleep where there is some vague memory of the past but it lies in a part of me that is inaccessible. In Revelation though when the new Jerusalem is described God clearly tells the Church that they should desire a remedy of pain and injustice.
Maybe some of this is the modernist perspective of someone who eats three meals a day but I don't long for the best steak I've ever eaten, most beautiful music I've ever heard or beautiful clothing. I long for peace, justice, health and unity with God.
What is the poem they reference at 19:20?
Ah, it’s something about raging against the dying light. The answer is a page below. Dylan Thomas.
Thanks Paul, will you continue posting all the talks from last weekend over the next while?
Yes
@@PaulVanderKlay thankyou
First?
Let me check..
I barely made it to the First.. No heels slowing me down this time and a big nose of course.. Photo finish required😂 I hope I was smiling😊
@@vixendixon6943so weird. I refreshed before commenting and I was still the only one. Then, I refreshed a few minutes later and saw that you had posted a minute before me.
Long live the queen 😂
@@agapologia 💛💛💛
Sorry, Silver!
@@PaulVanderKlay😂
discord link invalid
5 discord links invalid!
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didnt like this talk seemed more shallow and mainstream and incoherent in some parts but at least they are talking about something i guess thats good.
There is a horny dilemma in theology ... Buddhist version:
Just sit - Dogen
Study Tibetan dialectics for a lifetime - Dalai Lama
Vervaeke is a lama
Way to many adds