I Bought Defective Trains from the Factory?! New NYC Subway Set...
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- I've been looking to get a couple subway trains for the layout for many years and recently I found two sets on eBay for what seemed like a good price. Unfortunately after unboxing both of them it was clear something wasn't right. Both units were completely seized and wouldn't move an inch. It's possible since they were sold under Life Like they were made sometime in the late 90s which might explain why.
These were originally a Trainland/Trainworld exclusive, commissioned LifeLike to produce these for Trainworld. So many of us NYC Transit employees worked there the owner had access to historical info from us. Also Mike from MTH got some info from us for his run. They were big sellers however licensing fees is what makes trains expensive. These were an experiment since the MTH run was very successful in O scale 3 rail in the NYC area.I have 2 sets each (since NYC subways run 8 car trains) in the silver & red. Mine are nastaliger for me since I repaieed them when I was younger. These were IRT division cars, which are shorter. BMT/IND division were longer, quick reference IRT - 3 doorways, BMT/IND - 4 doorways. Silver - Blue stripe was the "One MTA look" when the MTA took over ownership of the NVC Transit Authority. Transit had to drop Authority from the name, MTA said there was only 1 authority. The red scheme was the "anti graffiti" scheme, later. I think the original color scheme was a brown paint. Subway cars get very dirty running thru the tunnels. Steel dust was everywhere!
Is that the 6 train? Then it’s the Taking of Pelham 123 train.
Great movie, original with Robert Shaw and Walter Matthau.
Yeah the bearings in the worm gears locking up is very common on proto/life-like stuff. It's usually the lubrication that was use.
Harrison's next project (now the Hershey's factory is finished): Complete replica of an NYC subway station!
I remembered riding on those cars when I grew up in the Bronx. That silver with blue was the original paint scheme. Eventually they painted some white and of course the red, which they nickname them Redbirds. The paint was for anti graffitti. They are still a few today painted in yellow and used in track maintenance. Most of them was scraped and where used as artificial reef of the coast of Virginia. Thank you for sharing this video. Have a good day SMT.
My favorites were the R46s we had on the F train.
The white ones were a MAJOR mistake since they didn't stay white for long 😂
You're are almost right @dannyfan. The silver and blue color scheme was the first colors of the MTA.
Same here, I lived in Brooklyn and I loved seeing them whenever I took the train into Manhattan. Great memories...
I love the new double track feature that allows two trains to operate. You just need to separate both lines and add another power pack so you can run one passenger Eastbound and the other Westbound. I want those passenger cars now too! 😀
I came as soon as I saw “Defective”
same
same
Same
same
Same
This is a very common issue with Life Like/Proto 2k units that haven't been run, along with the axle gears cracking thanks to the plastic used reacting with grease/oil over time. Had many engines locked up out of the box with a seized worm, just takes a clean out + oiling of the worm gear and fresh grease in trucks to get them running again. Nice video!
I haven't seen this issue on any I bought previously but I'd believe it now. These might have been sitting for 20 years which might be why.
@SMTMainline That sitting in the box forever is a silent killer on these guys. Otherwise they'll perk right up with a little work!
Had this same issue with a set of Proto2000 FA units. Both had siezed worm gear bearings and ever driver had split bearings. Good news, Walther makes replacement sets for relatively cheap, so it was a quick fix
@@SMTMainlineI had some proto 2k with much more of the seised lub in it than thr first silver one, and it was like glue. Anytime you get a proto 2k, you should clean out the old lub from the worm gears and such
Old Atherns have a similar issue but it's mostly the axle gears crack outright once run after a long spell so the motor spins but the wheels don't or sloppy jerky motions depending on how bad the axle gear is. I literally had to replace dozens after getting them new in old estate sales. Protos had same issue with 1 bearing locked up, funny how that works out.
Nice set of NYC subways you picked up! This video might be of interest to Walthers since they purchased Life-Like a while back and they are going to release a new batch of subway cars in the future!
The two sets look great running together.
Very common mistake people make us trying to keep running these when don’t want to run. The issue is the grease become hard and freeze the gears up. When you keep trying to run them you actually crack the gears. Best thing with this brand is to pull the trucks apart and clean out the old grease first before running them
Too funny. Sorry, two funny. I think it’s time you add a sub-level for your subway trains and add a Subway restaurant. Like this comment if you agree! 100 likes and SMT has to build it. It’s a UA-cam rule. Section 23.4 part b. It would be so cool. A subway running under the Hershey plant. Epic!
Quite cool. Are you going to run some tarck under your set up for the subway itself? Or you could just have it drop people off at the sandwich shop which would be funny
A word of warning. Those chassis are prone to cracks and breaking so be aware of the brittle white metal. I have 3 sets of those P1K and have had issues with the frames warping and breaking. I have several of the MTH R17/R22 with sound and are far superior to the LL P1K. They were good as a commercially available model without having to buy brass or custom made models of NYC subway cars.
Yeah, the diecast cracking and warping is a phenomenon known as _zinc pest_ It traces back to contaminants (mainly lead) getting into the zinc alloy before it's injected into the dies.
I have one unpowered R17 unit, I didn't know the metal chassis cracked, I hope mine doesn't crack 😮 mine is a proto 1000 though and not a proto 2000
Curious why didn't you check the other two power units and why didn't the other units try to push/pull the other cars?
I was wrong, there was only one powered unit per train.
The Redbirds ran down Jamaica avenue in Queens New York where I lived. I wanted to be a motorman and I would wait for 3 trains to go by after school and my friends would let me in the cab so I could practice for my motor minutes test. The fastest you go around a 45-degree turn is 10 miles an hour and r17 subway car weighs 59000 lb. I still remember this stuff fifty years later. I would have had a nice career and I would have bought my mom's house with my dad's Lionel layout in the basement that stretch from one end of the house to the other end but my b**** of a mother made him tear it down so I would not have any contact with my father.
the care are shorter and narrower on these as they are IRT cars which had to run in tighter clearances than the rest of the system. BMT and IND lines had 60 ft cars with 4 doors per side. Bigger, newer tunnels. Nice, Now you need to put a motorman in the cab and a kid with his nose on the glass in the front. (me)
Lifelike used a synthetic oil on their models and overtime it would congeal and that's is what you got there. I have some older Proto 2000 that I have to go through and replace the oil on it
You are lucky to have the subway cars sets. I would have loved to have purchased a couple of ho sets like this when I was in HO scale model railroading. I thought of scratch building a semi realistic subway car set out of a thorn subway cars and a diesel power unit but I did not have the skill so I never did it. I love the subway car sets I got from MTH in age and I can live with the third-rail because it's subway cars. Check out the Betty boop cartoon too much noise, she lives right by 3rd avenue in New York and the artwork of the third avenue elevated train his exquisite as well as accurate.
Nice job getting these running again. I particularly like the brown set, sort of looks pennsy-esque! Rgds, Joachim
I have had the same problem with older Kato and life like locomotives. It’s definitely an easy fix but can be frustrating at first. Would be cool to see them get their own elevated or underground track like the streetcar did! Lol
Hey those are cool! I had no doubt that you would get them running. Kinda neat that the one is a little noisy, typical subway...welcome to New York!
Cool Subway! It's a nice Underground Train!
Well done at getting those two going. Never had that happen to me, but I did experience some anxiety when I tried my Ffestiniog Railway engine that I bought in Wales for the first time.
This comment is on behalf of my 6-year-old, who has been pestering me all morning to ask if you can “come to my house” and fix the HO CSX engine we found in his grandparents’ basement. (It’s in pretty rough shape.) I told him I don’t think you do house calls. 😅 We will watch some of your videos and try our best. Thanks for all the fun videos.
You never know, he just might do that.
I don’t do house calls haha but I’m happy to give any advice needed for repairs
By pure coincidence, I was rewatching "The French Connection" last night, which features several early 70s New York subway scenes that are critical to the (violent) storyline.
One of my four favorite 1970's NYC movies, with The Seven Ups, Shaft, and Cotton Comes To Harlem...every now and then I take out the DVDs for a weekend fest...🤔
I’ve had some major issues with Walthers and ESU decoders. I hope they figured it out.
Harrison great work as always. Sorry that happened to you. But you are truly a defective train detective.
The dude is a solid brain surgeon with these parts that's for sure.
It's Pell Ham bay park. (first syllable rhymes with Hell).
The IRT cars were usually about 50 feet long, while the IND / BMT lines were 60-75 feet long. The IND / BMT usually ran 10 car trains (60' cars R1-R10 etc-) or 8 75 foot cars (R44r46). IRT trains could be as long as 11 cars, depending on the line (Lexington Ave express ran the longest trains). You might couple all 8 cars onto a single train to be near prototypical in length. I'd be tempted to repaint the silver ones in the blue word's fair scheme, though they aren't the same exact car model used on the #7 Flushing lline.
Now you have to build a model EL structure!
The red one really seems allot more silent with it's motor than the silver one. Glad you got them both working. now you just need to add a area where they go below the layout so you have a bit of the underground with it, and then it come back up to the top. would seem kinda cool.
There could be flashing in the gearbox which wasn't removed properly. I will have to have a look.
The fat that the lubricant was seized is common for walthers trainline as well as my SD70m was siezed until i gave it some tlc. when i seen these run i was thinking cue the screeching wheels, and have the announcements mind the closing doors ,and welcome to NYC mta subway system lol. I find it funny how you hear so much about that soldering iron yet that type actually being its vintage and my late grandparents had them are actually really reliable . Theirs had lights on it to shine on the area your soldering. I love the way you can hear the wheels clicking along and the cars rocking back and forth it makes it more realistic to the track work. nice job
There is also another company who make NYC subways, it is MTH. In my opinion they might be more realistic then the Proto set you have.
MTH subway trains are made in O gauge (Lionel Compatible) as well as HO and are equipped with an expensive but feature packed command control system called Proto Sound 3 (DCS)
Glad to see it was an easy fix, SMT. They must have been in the box and never opened for all those years, and it's great to see them both running at the same time.
Well, it sucks that each train had the same issue, but it did make great content. It showed everyone the inner workings of the subway car and how to fix the issue. Great work!
In my opinion, if you want to buy more subway trains, buy them from MTH. All of the subway trains that I bought from them have worked flawlessly and look more realistic.
As an N Gauger, living in Brooklyn my whole life, I'm jealous...if I remember correct, there's a green set also...🤔
Harrison, I have more than a few P2Ks in the engine house. I’ve known about the cracked gear problem mentioned in the comments already, but not this seized mechanism/dry lubricant issue. Neither has happened to me yet, but yikes!
Now there will be overhead wire _and_ third rail on your railroad, won’t there?
What interesting pieces of equipment!
Enjoyed your video.....I never gave subway cars a thought. I really like the idea!! You have handsome looking stock there!!
It’s a model of IRT lines, the numbered ones. IRT has a very different clearance from BMT and IND lines. Those lines are still run with liveries consisting of cars with three doors instead of the longer ones from IND and BMT, whose liveries mostly have four doors on each side.
Even though these models look good, they aren’t really up to true measurements.
This video was so enjoyable!
I live in NYC so it means even more!
The Redbird trains, the most sort after, were run in the 1970’s and 1980’s painted red to try to combat graffiti which was so common, while the silver cars were easy to show the graffiti.
And it’s pronounced Pel-ham bay park
Anyway keep the vids coming!
The red paint was epoxy-based, so it wouldn't react to regular paint stripper that would take off regular spray-paint.
I was a volunteer at the Shore Line Trolley Museum, which owns a Redbird R17 #6688 (it has appeared in one of the _Spider Man_ movies), and I participated in stripping said paint when it was discovered that some of it had separated from the steel underneath the side windows and water was collecting underneath. I actually discovered this when I poked one of the bulges and heard water sloshing under the paint. Anyway, no paint stripper would budge the stuff so we had to burn it off with gas torches. The car was repainted in the Redbird scheme for a few years, but fairly recently it was backdated to the silver/blue scheme seen here.
One of the Spiderman movies uses a CTA car on the El...Chicago is not QUEENS!!!🤣🤣🤣
I've seen this same issue before on new engine, I always check the oil before running to break in the engines, great video...
I think the silver one has a wire rubbing against the flywheel or driveshaft. Great work getting them running again!
Have also. I run em on my Christmas village layout. I also grew up riding the real ones. ❤❤🤘🤘👍👍
You didn't get defective trains, you got prototypical engines in need of maintainance.
I plan to build a layout about 20 ft X 10 ft. Been looking at different size layouts for reference. What is the length of the double oval of your layout? Is it 19 or 20 ft?
Recently mabye like 3-2 months ago I was searching for some subway cars for my layout I actually almost bought some Proto 1000 cars but ended up getting the MTH R17 cars mines are equipped with DCC Sound (proto 3 I think?) There awesome little things (my MTH ones are a super bright red color)
Cool video Harrison interesting that they are malfunctioning they are generally well running
I think it has something to do with the build process and the fact the they are shipped from factories over sea might have impact on the issue
Now you can build a shelf layout hanging off the bottom side of the table. Around the perimeter of the combined tables if you wanted to, and how cool would that be? I wish they made subway set for G scale I'd be all over it, Cheers 👍
I used to ride the 4 train from Grand Central to Jerome Avenue with these sets where graffiti was around back in 1984. Glad you restored them & fixed it like it was good as new.
Those are really cool. Glad you got them working. Really awesome.
Just at work watching this instead of working life is good
subways look weird without a plough
Also question:
Do you prefer cn or cp?
I can’t believe both locomotives had the same problem. Great video
Same if have My Bachmann Niagara 6005 not anymore.
Those subway cars are very cool,glad you got them running. Always love watching your videos!😊
It would probably be a pain in the butt but it would be awesome to have a smt discord to share train stuff
Nice additions to your collection, congrats!
Great fix…you are so level-headed…bravo!🎉😂😅😊
nice job Harrison i have had the same problem with athearn locomotives 🤕
Hi Harrison, The EL in Pelham is pronounced like bell. The H is silent. Take it as sound advice from a former NYC resident. 😊 Keep up the excellent work!
Harrison, I am a retired NYC Subway Conductor. I worked all the numered lines, 1-6,7 & 9! Did a lot of time on the Redbirds, 62s, 142s, and 142As.
BTW, are they DCC equipped?
Still in better shape than the actual nyc subway right now.😅
These model are fantastic! I think that they look even cooler when they are run together! Great Video👍
The MTH HO scale version has more detail like the gantries which are missing on these models.
How do you seen one of your snowman in the closet? It scared me🚂🚂
The NUMBER 6 train runs as a local MTA train from the Brooklyn Bridge/City Hall station in NYC up to Pelham Bay Park in the Da Bronx! The silver SHUTTLE cars represent the shuttle that runs from Times Square to Grand Central Station in NYC. BTW, don't forget to put some scale people walking on top of the number 6 cars for extra NYC realism.
Is train hopping common there?
@@SMTMainline Too common! It's outlawed too. Just lost a 14 YO who fell on the tracks and his pal is in hospital with serious injuries.
Harrison, FYI, Pelham is pronounced “Pellum” in NY.
@@SMTMainline It wasn't until TikTok happened. It brings out the stupid in a _lot_ of people (probably by design)
I was on a train where I witnessed a bunch of teenagers in the next car egging each other on and at least two of them climbed atop the train between stations. I changed my travel plans and switched to a bus at the next station since I didn't want to be stuck on the train if any of them fell off.
Now you need to build an under ground layout right under your main layout.
Some history on these cars:
the MTA Redbird scheme was the very late GOH scheme that lasted on the R17 through R36 (not including R32) until the R33's final retirement in 2003.
The silver scheme is the Corporate MTA scheme from the 70's and 80's until they were rebuilt into GOH and recieved the redbird paint scheme.
The R17's in particular were replaced by the R62 and R62/A series cars.
They ran on all 7 numbered lines.
Addendum: "GOH" is short for "General Over Haul"
Now you need to build subway tunnels under the layout.
I have 3D Printed G-Scale NYC r62 Subway cars. They are huge.
I really admire your bravery in soldering that fine joints with that crowbar of a soldering pistol and that ultra thick solder. I would smolder everything to ashes with that tool (what I already do without problems with my fine 30-watts-soldering-iron)...
It's not everyone's tool of choice and I understand why however I still haven't found something I personally find more effective.
ive had issues with them pencil type ones. the dang thing got so hit it started to melt the point part . his vintage soldering gun is far better.
@@mercuryoak2 you need to discover controlled-temperature soldering stations. They cost a bit more that your hardware store cheapie, but they're worth it if you do a lot of fine soldering.
@@JBofBrisbane Yes, they are way better than any unregulated "smoldering" Iron. Since I bought one of these (and in hobbyists range they're not too expensive e.g. at amazon), I get far better results. The secret is to heat up the soldering point quick but thoroughly enough to let the solder flow into the joint so you get a secure contact that doesn't break at the next opportunity. And you need fine tips and fine solder wire to solder delicate links - solder pistols and 1/10-inch solder wire are normally used for bigger soldering joints in higher voltage and higher power environments.
Great video, lucky it happened to someone like you who knows how to fix it. Someone like me would be out of luck and pocket. Thank you
It just occurred to me - you need to add third rail !
Make it into an eight car train with powered units at both ends
The MTH HO scale version has more detail like the gantries which are missing on these models.
Not sure how the MTH runs though since I have the same as yours.
we need to see more shots of trains running on some other tracks rather than just that one loop on the outside😁 (maybe even some switching?!?)
You should fit couplers onto that Tenshodo electric loco in the last video and have it pull these subway cars. :)
Hey Harrison, good job. Those are nice looking subway cars. I'm glad you were able to get them running. Here's a thought...even though you bought them from different sellers, they are both from the same manufacturer. Maybe the corrosion happened at the factory or the warehouse considering they were probably stored together before distribution. 🤷♂️
What are the chances it would happen twice in a row??? Anyway, serenity, we have a runner X2! Cheers from eastern TN
Yeah, pretty strange.
Defective from the factory is misleading, Harrison. The people you bought them from most likely never ran these locomotives, or even took them out of the box. Just typical bearing issue from sitting around in some basement or attic with temperature and humidity changes. Good to see you got them running, but that was a no brainier for you. 😁 Now you need to get operations completed under the layout with that true NYC subway aroma. 🤣
Thanks for sharing. 👍🐾👍
See I could see that, but the fact 2 different sets from 2 different sellers had the exact same issue on the same gear on the same exact barring? That's to much a coincidence for it to to be factory issue
Great video, they look good on your layout.
Nice
Hello smt I hope you have a good day
Love those redbirds! Sharp looking together.
I got here as fast a I could when I heard train
I bought the same two sets many years ago. The second set was nicknamed, “Redbirds.” One didn’t run out of the box Haven’t repaired it yet, but I know it’s just the usual P1K/P2K peanut butter grease and will be fine once I clean and re-lube everything.
they both look like cool models
Do NOT STOP WORKING On Those Trains Harrison.
Very true on what you said!
Fantastic repairs. Both sets look great. Well done.
On my channel I have a video of a Redbird R17 at the Shore Line Trolley Museum (East Haven, CT), being used to unload a PATH subway car being added to the collection (it was one of two cars under the WTC that survived the collapse owing to not being directly under the tower's footprint)
Trivia: on the first O-Gauge R-17 set made by MTH, the powered car is number 6688, the same as the car in the aforementioned museum.
R17 subway cars.
King Kong movie 1976.
Gaint Gorilla desrailed R17 elevated train.
HO scale R17 subway cars.
N scale México City subway set.
New York City Subway Cars.
R17 .
HO scale.
Life Like.
México City Subway Cars.
🇨🇵 MP-68.
N scale.
Life Like.
N scale NM-22 🇨🇳 train set.
N scale NM-73 Franky train set.
N scale NE-92 train train set.
You're so intuitive as well as knowledgeable .
They looked cool running together.
What about reversing the wires on one of the mainlines and running trains meeting each other in opposite directions as long as you're using just one power pack.
Great stuff.
I'm thinking about isolating the mainlines for that reason.
You got them running that's good. I have the ALCO RSC 2 They are still running I have 3 of them. I also left you a comment on your live,
Harrison, is your Dad interested in model railroading?
He had a layout when he was younger and has an eye for the hobby
I love R17 New York City subway cars.
Life Like.
Good job in repair the R17 subway cars.
King Kong movie 1976.
R17 for line 8 of Teziutlán subway system.
4:31 It's Pelham Bay Park (in the Bronx)...The movie "Taking of Pelham 123" is this subway line.. (The original movie with Walter Matthau and George Shaw ("Jaws") is the only good one.."Ahhhhchooo !")...
Honestly, you should see some of the sharp curves the IRT has to navigate, especially in the Bronx. One on Westchester Avenue and the other on West Farms Square, both on the IRT 2 line. Great job on fixing these classics. Yes, I'm old enough to have ridden on the real things. LOL
I'm 78 years old, and I rode to Westinghouse Voc Tech High School, back in 1960, on the Sea Beach Express to Pacific St, where I changed to the Fourth Ave Local, before they changed to the numbered trains for the final two stops to Lawrence St. Brooklyn.
As the train left DeKalb ave Station, it had to maneuver around an extremely sharp curve. the screeching sound of the wheels against the rails still haunts my memory, similar to Tinitus!
It was a very loud screech, and nothing could block it from your ears. The screech started roughly 1000 ft from the end of the platform at Dekalb, Ave, and lasted till you were almost arriving at Lawrence S, t where people on the sidewalk 30 or so feet above could still hear it.
I've retired to Texas and have not been on a NY subway in over 40 year's, yet that screech still remains in my mind
I also remember riding the R1/9 cars from the 1930's they had these great Rattan seats. But as a kid I opted to take the front door window view. I rode thes for many years during the summer while going to Coney Island...
Found a video of the R1/9 train on a special run, stopping it 14th Street, and another at Times Square, if anyone is interested...
ua-cam.com/video/vZWYpe9rTA8/v-deo.html
17:48 the trains are racing
One thing I've noticed - you seem to run in anti clockwise direction no matter which track you're on. Wouldn't it be better to run the inner track in a clockwise direction (As in prototype)?
That mostly has to do with how the camera is set up.
@@SMTMainline No. What I mean is - One train goes one direction, the other the opposite.
@@Morganstein-Railroad I couldn't do that at the time since these are DC units and both loops ran off the same power source. Now that they're electrically isolated it would be easy.