Why the Hidden World was a Slightly Massive Disappointment
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 чер 2024
- 00:00 - Intro
07:48 - Friendship, Loyalty and Integrity: The Lifeblood of How to Train Your Dragon
13:14 - How to Destroy Your Core Themes (and Undo Your Character Growth While You're at It)
17:23 - When a Tearful Farewell Works (and When it Doesn't)
21:55 - An Alternative, Far Superior Ending (in my Opinion)
24:43 - Final Thoughts
26:21 - Epilogue
Credits: This video uses clips from Dreamworks' How to Train Your Dragon series, as well as Dreamworks' "Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron" for review purposes. The work is transformative, and the use is allowed under Fair Use.
Music in this video:
King of Pride Rock - Hans Zimmer
Melody of My Dreams - Whitesand
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Channel Link: / @whitesandcomposer
Inspirational Dream - AShamaluevMusic.
Music Link: • Inspirational Dream - ...
Channel Link: / @ashamaluevmusic
Pooka - Kevin MacLeod
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Sneaky Snitch - Kevin MacLeod
Music Link: • Kevin MacLeod ~ Sneaky...
Umbrella Pants - Kevin MacLeod
Music Link: • Kevin MacLeod ~ Umbrel...
Dog and Pony Show - Silent Partner
Music Link: • Dog and Pony Show - Si...
Dog Park - Silent Partner
Music Link: • Dog Park - Silent Part...
Link to petition from 2014: www.change.org/p/dreamworks-a...
Interview with Dean DeBlois about the ending of How to Train Your Dragon 3: collider.com/how-to-train-your...
Sorry if I missed anything!
#how to train your dragon #hidden world #httyd #hiccup #toothless
You know what makes it even worse is that the books don't even end that way. In the books, Hiccup spends his entire life fighting for dragons, the dragons are given a choice over whether they want to hide in nature (not a weird dark hole in the ground) or stay with their human companions, and Toothless and Hiccup stay together for the remainder of Hiccup's life.
Huh. I genuinely didn't know that! Go figure DX
@@nera424 Yup! It's a really beautiful ending; we were deprived of Toothless and old man Hiccup.
i am buying all the books officially, i need that ending-
Hiccup is also an incredible fighter in the books. One of the best swordsmen once he realizes he's a southpaw.
It would actually be great ending for movie
"and not even the death of hiccup's father is ultimately enough to come between them" until an overly-feminine dragon comes along smh
Facts
Make her white. And shiny. With those round feminine features like - smaller claws, tinier horns! So yeah, of course.
But its a-A W-wOmAn~~
@@smart.but.stupid and make sure she has no markings. Someone might MISINTERPRET them as scars! We can't have the female dragon who is hunted and trapped by humans, likely even attempted to be kiIIed by humans, having... having... unsightly, horrifying, terrifying.. sc...
scars...
Forgive me. Forgive me for saying the word. Death to me, a thousand deaths to me!
"Humans are not ready for dragons. That's why dragons need to hide so when they come out... humans definitely won't be ready for dragons"
Well, that's why I like to pretend HTTYD 3 doesn't exist. Totally agree with you. The toothless that leaves his best friend for some random girl and Hiccup who blames himself for not thinking about what Toothless needs despite of dragons BEING HIS LIFE just don't make any sense. Also that "I'm nothing without my dragon" disappointed me, Hiccup started to think like that for no reason. Anyways, really good summary of how the movie lacks any sense.
True! I also didn't like how it sort of pegged Toothless as a "dumb animal that doesn't have the capacity to care about his caretaker"
Ikr? I still dont know why he suddenly began to think that? All those characters seemed to out of character in this movie - why would he suddenly start thinking this?
The "I'm nothing without Toothless" thing bothered me too. The first two films seemed to be telling us that Hiccup and Toothless were both formidable in their own right, but together, they were fucking unstoppable. THW was straight up character assassination.
@@jaffarebellion292 it's even more insulting when you look a the shows. The shoes have a way better villain than grimmel ever was who is actually a bigger threat to the gang. And the twins aren't retarded like in the third film. Sure they are silly but use their annoyance on purpose to annoy the enemy. Hiccup is literally shown to stand on his own without toothless as well. He makes his own gadgets, maps, and is naturally a great leader even without the help of toothless. Hell! MULTIPLE TIMES in the shows the riders didn't HAVE their dragons. Mainly because their dragons got captured or trapped!!! And guess what happened??? They absolutely kicked butt and where badass without their dragons. Some examples of this are in episode where the berserkers turn on dagger, the one when they are all captured on the ship and fight without their dragons and so many more examples.
@MegaBond I always thought the villain of the final film needed to be another Night Fury, specifically one related to Toothless. It would force Toothless to confront his presumedly dark past, it would challenge Hiccup's notion that dragons are inherently morally better than humans, and it would finally pay off that Night Fury thread they've been building up. Have said Night Fury be a remorseless zealot that aims for the eradication of humanity and any dragons who sympathize with them. It would be tough to pull off if Toothless and Hiccup couldn't find a more reliable way to communicate, but that's easily solved with a 10-15 year timeskip and writing in the sand. Plenty of time to work out how to talk to each other.
i hate that the perfect future always means giving up, settling down, marrying and getting kids. how boring is that? i don't wanna live like all these losers. i wanna be happy. why is it always treated like it's wrong?
I am wondering about that too
Exactly. There will be tough moments and decisions in life, but that shouldn’t get in the way of what your dreams in life. That’s literally what the themes of the past two movies have been all about. 😔
THIS
THIS
Like... I see Hiccup and Astrid as brother and sister, including them being best friends more than as a couple.
I also really dont get why Valka out of all people was so adamant on having Hiccup and Toothless split up. She was one of the first (if not the first) vikings to stand up for dragons back when they were still raiding Berk. She even lived with them for twenty years!
Exactly, it was clearly a forced writers’ hand, just pulling her out of character to make the ending sound better. The sad thing is that it’s worked for people. I’ve seen so many fans who try to defend this movie (and it doesn’t usually sound sincere- they just seem to think that they _have_ to like it if it has the HTTYD title attached) use Valka’s unexplained OOC determination to lose the dragons as “proof” the dragons had to go, because otherwise why would someone as dedicated to them as Valka say it? But that’s the question. “Why would she say it?” The movie never gave a good enough reason for her to. You just have to imagine that the situation was worse than the writers actually showed onscreen. That’s lazy writing. If the audience has to do the work for you to imagine why a character does something, then it’s out of character and a bad story.
for so many of the series hiccup and toothless are seen as parallels and brothers and even having similar emotions and feelings. in the third movie they couldn’t be more separate than they are. what i usually love about the series is there connection, and it’s ruined in the third film. they’re so disconnected it genuinely hurts to watch them.
The villains won in the last movie they separated humans and dragons
Oh god..you’re right and I hate it :(
wait this is such a big brain comment
@@renoirrr Yeah, and if you try bringing that fact up to people who think it's a good film, they will through severely jarring mental gymnastics to say that that is not the case, but it absolutely is.
Yea its kind of depressing if you keep thinking about it
Oh. They just ruined everything...
Late to the party but I absolutely agree with you!
I was shocked when I saw the ending and left the theatre. Something felt wrong about this... I didnt get why all of this would be a reason for Hiccup to basically give up. The whole franchise said up to this point: "Dragons and Humans belong together, humanity just has to learn this" but then they go from that to: "lol, jk, we cant live together after all"
Like what??? Also doesnt help that the other parts of the movie werent good as well. Basically all of the characters acted weird...totally out of character... the constant running gags... Grimmel himself... The lightfury who had no character developement at all.... it was all just one burning mess and I wished it could have ended with them moving to the Hidden World /:
Yeah! It went from: "Dragons and humans belong together, humanity just as to learn this" to "Dragons and Humans don't belong together"
A TOTAL 360!!!
@@ABagelLeftOnTheRoadside Yea, so what was the point of this franchise when the end-message is basically the beginning-message? At the beginning they said that they cant live together, soo why did we have to spend 2 more movies and an entire netflix show to just end it with: "oh you know, we were right at the start, we cant live together"? Like, whats that even supposed to teach people???
@@anfani6839 it can teach kids not be lazy and copy some elses work i know dean was basing them of the books but there's no similarities at
All except for the movies name and characters names and it proves how lazy minded dean has gotten over the years its sad really from being the movie back in 2010 best and getting an oscar then the second movie was great since then his just gotten lazy
@@archieindoorschallis2885 It would be like Ronald D. Moore deciding to end his version of Battlestar Galactica with a shot for shot remake of Galactica 1980.
My biggest gripe with the movie(you know, outside of the always annoying twins) is the fact that half of it hypes up the hidden world as this mystical place of legend that it's in the edge of the human world and that no one has ever found before... And then Hiccup bumps into it after half a day of traveling
Seriously that might be the biggest anticlimax I've ever experienced in a movie
I kind of found their antics more funny than annoying
My personal issue is that they find the Hidden World, they have a single set piece scene there, and then they're chased out and they barely even get a chance to *talk* about it, let alone return or do... anything with it at all.
Ugh, writing this had made me realize how many different ways they could've used it and made it work and be important and instead it feels like somebody made some really nice concept art that they crammed into a completely unrelated story. Just a shame all around.
@@MmeCShadow yeah exactly
For me, the Hidden World was basically the dragons' safe place, and that's all that mattered, b'coz it's about the people, not the stuff.😊😊
I know why people were upset, but why do they just despise that sometimes people part ways? This movie is maturing with its audience. Even if it hurts it just happens.
Everyone says they didn't hav to depart, but it was protecting dragons from determined hunters, people that are potentially harmed, and it's mature to give up some wants for more important needs.😊😊 Why does this generation resent selflessness?🥺🥺🥺
Also, what's wrong with making a family??🥺🥺 It's normal and healthy to have relationships with people. And love involves sacrifice and taking responsibility.
This vid talks about the theme: Love.
ua-cam.com/video/T1E-0vG9EOU/v-deo.html
...and this one how the themes compliment each other
ua-cam.com/video/C2FwGd7muks/v-deo.html
7:30 😊😊 I totally understand this, but it's not a contradiction. People part ways all the time irl. Like me, I went to 4 different highschools and 4 different homes after moving from my first home, barely had time to make friends, and lost most of my friends numbers. It wasn't that hard to get over, and it's a part of life. We move away, we have lives,, people die we have priorities that part us from our families. It's not stupid to protect Toothless by #1) keeping him out of reach of humans, #2) letting him live (it's not like we judge our older siblings and devoured parents for moving forward as we do), #3) Dragons and humans live in very unique social structures, so have to lead their kind in different ways. Plus Berk was a mess and Hiccup was the only one with perfect utopia unicorn fart glasses on about all of it. And #4) It's not all about the dragons, it's also about the people. Dragons and the locations are the vessel in which these themes are carried.
@@marshmallowvampire8503 You may want to put this as an actual comment. Not an answer to my comment
I'm still super upset that there weren't any night furies in the hidden world, it felt like such a slap to the face especially after HTTYD2 teasing us with all the "maybe we'll find another fury someday" and "he may be the last of his kind" talk. Are you seriously telling me one deranged guy eradicated an entire species -1 by HIMSELF? Even though there was already an established place where dragons go to hide that can't be found by humans???
I was expecting a group of night furies to be living underground (hell, you can even see a couple light furies in there), giving Toothless more conflict of whether to stay with his own kind or return to the humans. It would have been so cool to see him fly into battle commanding a flock of other night furies behind him, against Grimmel's assumptions. But no, all the other furies are actually dead, except for the marshmallow-looking ones for some reason lol. Thanks for the heartbreak, DeBlois
For real!!! I kept looking for night furies in the hidden world and I was dissapointed
I’m pretty sure there are night furies somewhere in the hidden world
I’m planning on doing a re-write of the third movie, and putting it on archive of our own! There will be characters from race to edge, a baby night fury, ect. It’s a work in progress
@@StarDustwolf77 Can I know your nick on AO3?
@@jace_d DetroitDeviant77 :) the fic isnt published yet, but I'm working on it
On the note of Hiccups insecurity without Toothless, the village doesn’t know how to look back at what not only they did but what Stoic did and said to Hiccup. Given how they knew Hiccup was like that even before the dragons, it would suggest that he had to deal with that for a long part of his life. Toothless was the only one who he felt like he could open up to and feel the most trust in. The village or even just Astrid believing that he should let Toothless go when you can clearly see from BOTH characters that they don’t want to separate is like a school bully who bullied you to the point of feeling worthless going, “I wonder why they have such insecurities?”
Exactly!
I also felt like it didn't fit in general. Like why would Astrid and Valka (and maybe some otger people too, I don't know) say such things? It doesn't fit their character.
@@wolfbrother4395 It's so weird coming from Valka since she's been living with dragons for a long time.
Stoick treated Hiccup the same way Ozai treated Zuko in Avatar: The Last Airbender. An abusive parent is never a good parent.
@@jorgebersabe293 I have to completely disagree lol. He cared for Hiccups safety. Ozai tried to kill Zuko.
@@jorgebersabe293 I don’t think Stoick was willing to burn his son’s face
I mostly love Hidden World for its animation.
I never got why ALL of the dragons had to leave though. I haven't watched the movie in a while, but I remember them specifically hammering in how Toothless and Hiccup were dependent on each other, but what does that say about the rest of the dragons? Suddenly all because Hiccup and Toothless's relationship is "weird" that means that EVERYONE needs to get rid of their dragons? That was my main gripe with it.
Yupp, the people who love this movie are probably too dumb to realize this, or desperatly pretend it's good just because. Why do many movies and series nowadays have pretty visuals but a terribly written script?
@@starthefrakkfangirl6094 Which is ironic when pretty visuals cost thousands upon thousands of dollars, while a story can be completely free.
Yep. A lot of the dragons seemed disappointed leaving their best friend
@@starthefrakkfangirl6094 ok
i agree with you but i think mostly it’s because hiccup is the only one that protects them the most and toothless ofc and with toothless being gone there’s isn’t any dragon leader/aplha left . and there will always be bad guys trying to kill the dragons that are left on the island but with toothless not being there its hard to defeat the enemies so thats why they decided to let go all of the dragons because then none of them would be captured in the near future
9:29 "and bit by bit, we WILL change this world"
Yeah what happened to that hicup?
I remember being ridiculously hyped for this movie. I absolutely love the first two and the TV-show. Sadly, I was disappointed and felt betrayed by the movie. Hiccup's friendship with Toothless is amazing and the best thing about this franchise, I really don't understand what the creators were thinking. Words can't describe how betrayed I felt after watching this movie. I will never forgive them for what they did to our great leader Hiccup and that darling dragon of his.
I can actually only think of three positive things in this movie:
1. The Lightfury has a beautiful design, even though she lacks personality.
2. The animation is really very good, more or less on the same level as the second movie.
3. Astrid and Hiccup finally got married, I love them together.
I think the concept Light Fury design is better since it doesn't look too feminine.
Exactly! The ending of this movie completely undermines the themes of the first two movies. The trilogy goes from being about acceptance, cooperation, and coexistence to a rehashing of the Fox and the Hound "the races cannot mix" narrative. It makes me so angry, not only because it's a reversal of what the franchise was doing, but because the separation thing is a HORRIBLE lesson
Yeah, and everyone acts like it's a satisfying and beautiful ending because of "FeElS"
Finally! Someone that could put it in words. The message of the film has been bothering me since I saw it, I couldn't get it to jive with the messages of the other movies and the TV-show. Untill now almost all sources I have seen have been praising it for having a "satisfying" ending, which is frustrating because of how unsatisfied I felt after seeing it
Thank you, I'm really glad you liked it! And I totally agree, I had the same feeling seeing all the positive reviews and nobody discussing the thematic disconnect with the other two movies/TV show. I felt like this really needed to be said, and nobody else was saying it 😅
For me, 😊😊I know why people were upset, but why do they just despise that sometimes people part ways? This movie is maturing with its audience. Even if it hurts it just happens.
Everyone says they didn't hav to depart, but it was protecting dragons from determined hunters, people that are potentially harmed, and it's mature to give up some wants for more important needs.😊😊 Why does this generation resent selflessness?🥺🥺🥺
Also, what's wrong with making a family??🥺🥺 It's normal and healthy to have relationships with people. It's normal to have a lover, and love involves sacrifice and taking responsibility.
This vid talks about the theme: Love, (and how it works).
ua-cam.com/video/T1E-0vG9EOU/v-deo.html
...and this one how the themes compliment each other
ua-cam.com/video/C2FwGd7muks/v-deo.html
7:30 😊😊 I totally understand this, but it's not a contradiction. People part ways all the time irl. Like me, I went to 4 different highschools and 4 different homes after moving from my first home, barely had time to settle and make friends, and lost most of my friends numbers. It wasn't that hard to get over, and it's a part of life. We move away, we have lives,, people die we have priorities that part us from our families. It's not stupid to protect Toothless by #1) keeping him out of reach of humans, #2) letting him live (it's not like we judge our older siblings and devoured parents for moving forward as we do), #3) Dragons and humans live in very unique social structures, so have to lead their kind in different ways. Plus Berk was a mess and Hiccup was the only one with perfect utopia unicorn fart glasses on about all of it. And #4) It's not all about the dragons, it's also about the people. Dragons are the vessel in which these themes are carried.
Please don't spam in my comment section.
@@marshmallowvampire8503 we see characters splitting up ALL THE TIME growing up doesn't mean you have to say goodbye to your friends, my dad is 50 years old and I'm almost an adult yet he's STILL friends with people that he knew from Highschool and middle school, and I also hope that I can keep In touch with my friends as well, because growing up doesn't necessarily *always* mean letting go of those close to you or giving up on your dreams, morals, and what you believe in
Omg same. I felt so unsatisfied in the end
can series PLEASE stop turning great characters and their traits on their head just for the sake of more content. this movie didn’t need to exist the way it did and i mean that. it just pulls on cliches in order to appease audiences on a shallow level. i’m just constantly angry about this
26:21 man putting that audio over that scene was so damn depressing. Also with this alternate ending you featured in your video it would have been so much better for marketing as well imagine if all the trailers and promotional stuff was framed to look like they would split up and make the audience THINK the ending we got was gonna happen only to be siked out and go against that trope, and continue the message to fight for what you believe in
I never really thought about how the story's execution compares to Spirit, but through your analysis, I realised that Spirit's premise is actually a lot closer to the HTTYD books, and that's why both their endings worked while The Hidden World's fell short.
In the books, Hiccup is *not* the first person to train a dragon. Berk and the other humans are already taming and domesticating them from the start, so Hiccup and Toothless' friendship isn't a trailblazing idea that changes everything like it is in the movie. And unlike the films and the show, where we see each human bond to their dragon as an equal, the dragons in the books are regarded by humans as pets and slaves (the only instruction Hiccup gets for training a dragon is literally yelling at it), so Berk is not and never becomes the technologically advanced dragon utopia that the movie version of Hiccup turns it into.
Hiccup himself still learns to respect and care for Toothless and the other dragons, but he gradually realises throughout the series that the relationship between dragons and humans as a whole is not a healthy one. The dragons are wild animals who've had to endure centuries of systemic oppression at the hands of man, and in the last few books they eventually start a revolution and try to kill all the humans because of this.
So while the film's version of Hiccup changes the world by having dragons and Vikings live together, the book's version of Hiccup changes the world by letting the dragons be free.
Thank you so much for your input! That's really interesting and insightful for me, as someone who never read the books and only knew they were "different". Just makes me more convinced that the movies were wrong to stick with the book ending DX
@@SneezyReviews TBH, I don't think ending the story with Toothless and the dragons leaving was inherently a bad idea, and it could have even been done in a way that complimented the first two films. The biggest issue with the film's resolution is that it never really commits to a single, solid reason for the dragons to leave, so all the reasons they put forward are poorly-developed and flimsy, especially when the one they focus most on is Toothless abandoning Hiccup because he's simping over the Light Fury.
I think as a concept, Grimmel was a suitable villain to end the series with because of his personality and motivation. He isn't trying to protect his people like Stoick, he doesn't want to rule the world like Drago, and he's not even doing it for money like Viggo (the villain from the show). He kills dragons out of pure sadism, and the fact that people like him exist and always will could have supported the decision that humanity isn't ready to coexist with dragons. But in the actual film, Grimmel never gets the upper hand on Hiccup unless the plot demands it, so neither he or what he represents ever come off as a legitimate threat. Grimmel even straight up says that Hiccup's ideas are spreading, but instead of actually trying to spread his ideas to other people and cultures (he already did this in the show, which Deblois adamantly insists is not canon) Hiccup goes out of his way to make sure no one else can ever follow them again.
They also say that Hiccup and Toothless' mutual dependency is holding them back and Hiccup needs to realise that he can be strong without his dragon, but the film itself never actually shows this in practice, because when Toothless is gone we only ever see Hiccup fail at being a leader and making mistakes that he's never shown learning from. So when they separate at the end, it feels more like Hiccup is just giving up something he's dependant on instead of no longer being dependant on it.
This is more of a personal gripe, but I also think the separation would have felt far more meaningful if the story was actually set years later and it was the grown-up, bearded Hiccup that decided to let Toothless go, like how the older Andy gave away the toys in Toy Story 3. When I saw the first poster for The Hidden World (it's still my profile picture) I was really excited because I thought this was actually what they were doing, but I was really let down when it turned out that the real story was only set one year after the second, and it kind of turned me off the film before I'd even watched it.
@@superfanmusicmaker I agree with your points, and I think you're the only other person I've found who was also disappointed just by finding out this movie wouldn't have any kind of significant time skip like the 2nd one did. I had assumed we'd be jumping forward several years for this movie, not just one, and like you said I was let down as soon as I realized that.
@@mothmallow I believe the one year gap was something that was left over from the very first draft of the third movie (it was originally meant to come out in 2016, only two years after the second) so if they'd actually finished and released it then it might not have been as jarring. But the gap between the second and third movie's release was actually _longer_ than the gap between the first and second, so the fact that the in-universe time skip was only one year felt distracting and TBH I felt kind of betrayed by it.
I was 10 when the first movie came out and I stayed with the franchise even before I knew anything about the sequel. It wasn't until I saw the first trailer for HTTYD2 that I found out about the 5 year gap, but it actually made me even more invested in the story. I was attached to this world and these characters, and the fact that real time passed made it feel like they were changing and growing up with me. The fact that there was such a long time between the films also gave the TV show a lot of freedom to tell its own stories and fill it in.
So I couldn't help but feel a bit of a disconnect when another five years passed for me but The Hidden World picked up right after the second film, and the characters had barely changed either in appearance or as people. Instead of each film focusing on a different part of Hiccup's life, the trilogy feels lopsided with the third film being HTTYD2, Part 2 instead of HTTYD3.
It didn't even need to be another 5 year gap, just *anything* longer than one year would have been fine.
This was perfectly well said!
1) It's really stupid that a tail fin was all it took for Toothless to just go after the light fury without missing a beat when the last time Hiccup made such a contraption for Toothless years back the only reason Toothless flew off was to fetch Hiccup's helmet while Hiccup assumed he went off to find a mate, but really, he just seemed to know the importance of Hiccup's helmet and brought it back to him even though he didn't have to and was never asked to and was given the opportunity to do his own thing.
2) Grimmel didn't even seem that much of a threat, nor did he seem to have any real reasons for doing anything, nor did he seem interesting in any way. Everything he is has already been done before... even in the How to Train Your Dragon franchise (if you include the series).
3) Really, this is the smart idea? Forcing so many dragons into a limited amount of space with limited resources where there will absolutely be competition and many species will probably go extinct just as they might have if hunted to extinction but in this case it's while pretending like this method will save them... It's also disturbing how backward and hopeless the idea is, perpetuating this notion that we should stop fighting for important causes and just let the evil overlords do as they please...
4) Go against the established philosophies in the franchise while pretending you have a strong message to deliver to the audience. Sure, dependency is not a healthy thing, but dependency was not forced upon Toothless, because from early on he'd been given tools to fly and be himself and same goes for the other dragons. And it's also in a way offensive to all symbiotic relationships in nature by implying it somehow weakens or hinders them and that different species need to live seperately to mature and be their best selves... this wasn't really a codependent relationship until HTTYD 3 tried it's hardest to make it seem like one.
5) It's never a good idea to first completely take your own route separate from the source material and then act like it would totally work to finish your own story off the way the source material had ended when the differences are as significant as the differences between the books and movies for this particular franchise. Dragons in the book series were more like "pets" and servants, whereas here dragons were companions who had a symbiotic relationship with the humans once people learned to understand and respect them. The books were repetitive with the MC constantly returning to his underdog status, whereas Hiccup's status continues to grow and doesn't stagnate, unless we're talking in relation to how Snotlout perceives him, but then... it's Snotlout and not everyone has to like the hero or be super respectful to him. Both franchises were done VERY differently, with the only things that stayed being some of the names and places, really. I'd even say that in some ways, the movies and series up until HTTYD 3 were a glow up to the original series, with the exception of perhaps the Hiccstrid romance which in the first movie was a bit rushed and it's lasting nature - despite it starting as a one-sided teenage crush - felt a bit idealistic, but fine.
My ending would have been:
This is Berk. The only island not defined by land, but by the beings that live there. Sure, underground you can't expect to get a tan and the food isn't exactly gourmet, but we make it work. Why? Because we have dragons. And as long as we have dragons, as long as dragons exist peacefully alongside humans, we will defend those dragons come what may. Because we're vikings. We have toughness and grit and endless amounts of insanity. Because we're humans. We can learn to understand what was once misunderstood and we can use that understanding to be stronger than we were before. Apart from our dragons we are weak. Together, living together, learning together, fighting together, nothing can stop us.
Nah, people are not wrong for Defending HTTYD 3
@@primevalyautja1305Sure 😂
THANK YOU (Now that's a better ending than the boring shitshow that was the THW ending [there's a reason why I prefer the first and second movies, including the series themselves, way more than the third movie, and I don't even watch the Nine Realms because there's no point for me to])
The first two are my favorite movies of all time because of the music, the characters, the animation, just everything about them. But the third one felt like some sort of weird fanfic. I didn't like the light fury, I hated the villain, there was only one soundtrack piece that stood out in the whole film while the others were packed with them, it was sooo predictable to the point where I laughed out loud in the theater. Sure, I cried when Hiccup and Toothless said goodbye but not as much as I should have. It just feels like they didn't do any part of the movie right at all. Such a huge disappointment and it made me so sad to see my favorite series finish like that. It almost, ALMOST ruined the first two movies for me :(
For me, 😊😊I know why people were upset, but why do they just despise that sometimes people part ways? This movie is maturing with its audience. Even if it hurts it just happens.
Everyone says they didn't hav to depart, but it was protecting dragons from determined hunters, people that are potentially harmed, and it's mature to give up some wants for more important needs.😊😊 Why does this generation resent selflessness?🥺🥺🥺
Also, what's wrong with making a family??🥺🥺 It's normal and healthy to have relationships with people. It's normal to have a lover, and love involves sacrifice and taking responsibility.
This vid talks about the theme: Love, (and how it works).
ua-cam.com/video/T1E-0vG9EOU/v-deo.html
...and this one how the themes compliment each other
ua-cam.com/video/C2FwGd7muks/v-deo.html
7:30 😊😊 I totally understand this, but it's not a contradiction. People part ways all the time irl. Like me, I went to 4 different highschools and 4 different homes after moving from my first home, barely had time to settle and make friends, and lost most of my friends numbers. It wasn't that hard to get over, and it's a part of life. We move away, we have lives,, people die we have priorities that part us from our families. It's not stupid to protect Toothless by #1) keeping him out of reach of humans, #2) letting him live (it's not like we judge our older siblings and devoured parents for moving forward as we do), #3) Dragons and humans live in very unique social structures, so have to lead their kind in different ways. Plus Berk was a mess and Hiccup was the only one with perfect utopia unicorn fart glasses on about all of it. And #4) It's not all about the dragons, it's also about the people. Dragons are the vessel in which these themes are carried.
@@marshmallowvampire8503in the first movie toothless an hiccup beat the red death (an already massive dragon) then in the second movie they defeated the king of all dragons which was a lot bigger then the red
Death and they had trouble killing the red death.....then the third movie
They run away from him because he sneaks on to their island with out them knowing so they think his to powerful for them but in reality he should've being the easiest villain to kill off
And no-one cares about your life story
And how the hell are we being 'selfish' as you say by wating a 're make of the third movie this is alot of people's favourite franchise so of course they would want it to have a better send off in stead of copying the the books .
Even Kung Fu Panda 3 was disappointing, but not this bad. KFP 3 was nothing like 1 and 2. It was action, comedy, but mindless repetition of previous messages and lessons already learned
Yeah, 6 years of friendship and he leaves him for a hot girl he met five minutes ago...
I get always happy when I find more people that do not fall over their head with this movie, seeing actually how much flaws it has.
Hidden World? More like Hidden Manipulation.
Dubois (or how the heck it's spelled) went for emotions over quality writing.
The Light Fury? A blank slate there just to move the plot forward and downright annoying, but people focuses on how pretty she is.
Her relationship with Toothless? Forced, without any chemistry and, again, useful only to move the plot forward, but people focuses on how cute they are together.
Grimmel? A bland and boring copy of the villain of the second movie without any memorable quality and a pathetic defeat, but people are like "Oooh, he's like what Hiccup could be if he was baaad" so that automatically makes him a cool villain.
The Hidden World? A blatant copy of Valka hideout and the Green Death cave that is seen for less than 10 minutes, is pathetically easy to find and in the end it changes very little to the plot, but people go all "Oooh, shiny cave is soo cooool and pretty".
The scene of the dragons leaving? Nonsensical given how there's no reason for the dragons to leave, but people go all like "This soo shaaad buhuuu".
The ending? Another proof of how pointless the whole "dragons have to leave" and ruins any kind of emotions that I should feel because of the scene before, showing how the director tried to bake and the cake and eat it too. But people go all like "Oh, Toothless and Hiccup are back together! Oh, and they both have children that are overly cute! D'aaaaW!".
Seriously, the more I think about this movie, the more I hate it, finding myself wondering how is possible that some people not only think this is a worthy conclusion of the series, but also a freaking masterpiece.
I feel your pain bro. When I made my video I couldn't find anyone else talking about it on UA-cam. Now there's quite a few to commiserate with 😂
@@SneezyReviews Oh, you're not the only one, there are other out there on the tube that have teared this movie apart.
That said, you wanna know what I find to be the most puzzling thing about the people that defends the dragon leaving?
Is the fact that they are ok with the idea of segregation.
@@TheHulkfan Oh yeah, I was just saying that when I made my video, it was super early and I couldn't find any other youtubers talking about it. But some big channels now have made similar videos, so hating on HTTYD seems more mainstream now haha
About the segregation thing - I know!! Especially when the earlier movies were all about diversity and inclusivity. It's such a regressive theme - not just antithetical to the series, but a bad message in real life as well. Boo.
@@SneezyReviews And then there's the ending. People defend Toothless and Hiccup going their own paths saying that is about character growth to let the ones you love go. That wouldn't be necesserly bad if not for the forced execution, but the problem is that at the end Hiccup and Toothless are back together, so that whole argument is pointless.
@@TheHulkfan well they're not "back together" - I think it's implied this was just a one-off visit. But yeah, that execution was pretty bad.
You’re getting pushed into the algorithm! Keep going!
Nope, not ruining a thing. I felt like I should love the third film because it was part of the HTTYD franchise and I was absolutely enchanted with the first two. Watching your video and others in the same vein has given me permission to feel what I really felt about it: disappointed.
Edit: You're hilarious and I love how you summed things up.
Edit 2: Drago Bludvist, lol. But I totally agree with you on everything, and especially Sir Dredlocks. He was far more threatening and far scarier than the Backstreet Boy with the elongated chin was. He should have been the final bad guy.
Edit 3: Ok, maybe I'll stop with all the edits, but Gift of the Night Fury is FREAKING FANTASTIC!! That's where my profile picture comes from! And it's too bad that the creators abused and mistreated the real mustang from which they drew inspiration for Spirit... At least they couldn't do the same thing to dragons.
Edit 4: Apparently not done with the edits. I love your idea of how it should have ended. That's how it will end in my mind now.
Your alternate ending would be much better. It would explain why there are no more Berkians. Also the wedding of Hiccup and Astrid in their new home in the hidden world would hv been an amazing scene to watch! Pity they never went that direction. Hopefully they will one day come up with an alternate ending for fans.
You so easily explained what was wrong with this finale...I remember leaving the theater feeling so unsatisfied, and when I heard about Toothless getting a random ass love interest before it came out I was so confused and annoyed. I didn't realize why I disliked the whole idea of it until you just outlined it in this video.
TV Series also makes alot of this movies flaws even bigger.
Yeah I didn't touch on the series really cuz I only saw part of the very first season. Did you watch all the series? What did you notice?
@@SneezyReviews I watched seasons 3-8 (I didn't realize until alot later that Netflix didn't have the first 2.)
First of all, Berk isn't the only Island around with Humans and Dragons being friendly.
Hell Berk wasn't even the first, they find 2 Islands who were like that BEFORE they met them, and by the End 2 more Islands more like 1st Movie Berk end up changing their minds and being like Berk.
Counting Berk, there are no less than 5 Islands where Humans and Dragons are living alongside each other.
Which makes that part where Toothless takes all the Dragons to the Hidden World stupid, because SOMEHOW got all the Dragons from the other 4 Islands to go with him despite them not being present?
And that's not getting into the Islands SOLELY inhabited by Dragons, like one island has a species of Dragon that is super dangerous, as it spews Amber which they use to capture prey. Which is typically Dragons.
Did Toothless take the Dragon Eating Species of Dragon with him to where the Dragons are?
Hiccup in the movie drops a line about dealing with someone like him before.
Can't be the first movie's villain, that was a Gluttonous Dragon. Can't be villain 2, he was more of a brute with a vague, but effective plan.
There's only one villain who matches that description, and that's Viggo in the TV Series. Problem is, Viggo is significantly more intelligent and Hiccup is constantly having to adapt to Viggo, and Viggo in turn adapts to Hiccup.
Grimmel is Viggo light.
But more importantly, that basically implies the TV Series is canon, making all of the problem about this movie significantly worse.
And if it's canon, the question also comes up of "Why didn't Berk ask one of their allies for help?" or Even "If they are overcrowded, why not ask the other islands if they got space?"
Granted one of the islands would only take female dragons (For a good reason, not a dumb one believe it or not.) but that could still lighten the load so to speak.
Now ignoring the TV Series for a 2nd, there's another line in the movie that while the previous stuff DEFINITLY makes it worse, is still egregious on it's own.
"A Dragon and Human society, a dumb idea, which is unfortunately Spreading." or something around those lines, I forget his exact wording.
Problem?
THE VILLAIN SAID THAT!
That means that Berk's attempt to change the world's view on Dragons WAS WORKING!
And at a fairly decent pace at that!
And this is all off the top of my head without me trying to remember any more plot holes.
@@ShadowWolfRising man that's definitely a crazy amount of plot holes. I feel bad cuz I was a fan of httyd but I wasn't ever invested to the point of watching all the shows and stuff. I feel sorry for all the fans who truly loved the franchise and soaked up all the spinoffs and everything. The 3rd movie disappointed me but that's probably nothing to how much it upset you guys 😅
@@SneezyReviews Sad part is I didn't watch it because I was a huge fan, I watched it cause there were days I had to watch my dogs and Netflix was right there and I eventually just went "Fuck it, why not?".
It's a good show though, clearly didn't have enough budget, but it was good.
YES like all of the side characters! They all had so much great development in the series (especially race to the edge), and they were completely different characters in hidden world.
Am i the only one who was also bothered by the fact that Hiccup and Toothless were potrayed more as owner and pet than friends? It's a thing i began to see in the 2nd film as well. Also the whole weird 'not-ready-for-marriage-relationships-trap-you-lol' things was just...not for me
They were best friends in the second movie equals but toothless and hiccup in the 3 movie was like man an dog
Yah when I saw HTTYD3 I was very upset and like to pretend it doesn't exist. I loved HTTYD and the messages it sent out and the third movie really shat on it (as well as letting the villain win). I also hate how they fell back on how romance truimps over friendships and how it's totally okay to forget about your friends for someone you just met and barely know. If they wanted it to have the same ending as the books, then they should have been more faithful to the books.
(Also what's even funnier is that in HTTYD3 the dragons' agency is taken away as Toothless is making them go into hiding)
Finally, someone acknowledges how good Spirit is.
THANK YOU for saying this! The hidden world did give me all the feels when I first watched it, but the more I thought about it the more disappointed I was. The ending was cheap and nearly every single character's arc from the previous movies either regressed or was ignored completely. And yet I keep running across video essays saying how great the movie was. So it was refreshing to hear your take, and I love the outro you used so much more than what's in the movie!
in all honesty it could be a really good movie... only if you werent a fan of the books or the rest of the trilogy or you dont care about them. critics probably arent fans or knew about the previous 2 movies so this would make sense yknow? idk maybe im only saying this is because i can see from other's shoes a bit too well or often
Damn I had no clue people were actually begging years before the actual movie to not separate Hiccup and Toothless and they just didn't listen. It's kind of hilarious they had an art competition around the time this video came out on Deviantart called Discover your Duo where people were supposed to draw a duo quote on quote as "*iconic* as toothless and the light fury." Like did you completely forget about the iconic duo that made your movies so memorable?
Oh! I remember that contest! But wasnt it in like 2017 or 2018 or something?
Omg I remember it because I actually wanted to participate in it with Cloudjumper and Toothless but for some reason I never actually started it? I cant even remember why thou
@@anfani6839 it was after HTTYD 3 came out so 2019. I made an animation for it but didn't finish it in time; I doubt they were accepting animations though.
Oh, god. "As iconic as Toothless and the light fury" is just insulting.
@@anfani6839 I keep seeing you in these kinds of videos.
Hey, this is gattwood9. I just watched the whole thing from start to finish, and you did a brilliant job bringing everything together! You are very talented, and I feel really honoured that you chose to include my words. Thank you so much!
Hey! I'm really glad you liked it; honestly, your comments were really well articulated and that entire thread is basically what inspired me to make this video, so right back at ya really! Thank you!!
Jesus that alternate ending was FAR more superior!
I love this video, I've watched it twice now >:"D You did a really good job with it
I really don't understand why people like this movie, let alone praise it??? I will admit when I first saw it I defended it- Cause the ending did make me tear up...for the wrong reasons. I was just sad to see a franchise I loved so much end, and ofc Toothless and Hiccup separating. Thinking back when I was watching it for the first time though, I was just, confused. Something felt very very off to me...it didn't feel like httyd at all.
Not to mention how....bland the Light Fury was- I originally liked her but did you ever notice those pink love hearts on her head?? I think that's all I need to say here >:"D
Thank you so much for the high praise, I really appreciate it! And yeah, I know what you mean. It tugs on your heartstrings but still leaves you kind of unsatisfied and wanting. That's exactly how I felt when I watched it too :(
Also no, I did not notice the hearts until much later (I think it might have been on tumblr or reddit?) Doesn't surprise me though 😂
Ikr? Every time I hear people say that the third is great, let alone better than the second always makes my blood boil
You perfectly elaborated the exact issues I had when I watched this movie, great video! I remember my mother and me discussing this movie at length after we watched it trying to pinpoint why we ended up feeling so disappointed and we came to very similar conclusions you did. It's such a shame, we both adore the first two movies and the series but we've never rewatched the third one, it just destroys too much of what was built before.
It's kinda funny, Dreamworks has two amazing trilogies - How To Train Your Dragon and Kung Fu Panda - and in both I don't like the third movie while adoring the first two.
The third KFP was alright, at least they were loyal to it's core identity unlike this trash.
@@starthefrakkfangirl6094 It definitely didn't go as much against the series core themes as HTTYD3 did but it wasn't a good continuation either. It basically rehashed the same big question Po had asked himself and answered in the previous movie (Who am I?) while at the same time contradicting the message/conclusion of that same movie that the past ("the beginning of his story") wasn't what mattered by insisting that Po would only know who he truly was by finding out what it means to be a panda. Even the arc with his dad is similar in that he fears he'll lose his adopted son because Po wants to find out "where he comes from". It feels completely unnecessary because it just repeats the same story beats only worse.
I also think that it cheapens the impact of the tragedy in the 2nd movie by revealing that so many pandas survived and are just living their best life somewhere (though the end of the 2nd movie already did that with its teaser so I'm not only blaming the 3rd movie on this one).
that seen gave me the feels
blinding rage is a feel right?
One of the worst parts was that some characters wherent even included. Such as Heather, her brother dagur, etc. I know there why they weren't included in the movie (most not knowing the series) but even backstory related characters like Alvin. Alvin was one of the most important characters in not only hiccups development but also that of the other riders. The series are still a part of the httyd story line especially race to the edge Was important where we also get to see how valka got the bewilderbeast, info on drago and his plans. Not including characters also made a lot of questions. Are the dragons from race to the edge still there? How did heater etc react? And so on. Including them and others whould have been a big help for hiccup and the others. Dagur would surely have helped with finding a new island for the vikings of berk along with Alvin, both would have also have helped with building and fighting grimmel.
But that's not my biggest issue. It's that they TREW AWAY THE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT OF SNOTLOUD, TUFFNUT AND RUFFNUT. They made so much progress in alone the other movies! "I never look back hiccup" NO. NO SHE WOULD HAVE LOOKED BACK. RUFFNUT WOULD HAVE LOOKED BACK!! "who died and made you chief" NO GOD PLEASE NO. THEY SCREW SNOTLOUD UP SO BAD! HE WOULD NEVER HAD SAYD THAT.
I’m still bitter that Stoic died, and that Hiccup didn’t vote Astrid to be chief in the second film. Astrid would’ve been a great chief, and Hiccup could’ve focused on caring for the dragons. Instead of making the lead look like he could Have it All in terms of the characteristics of an iconic hero, be the gentle guy with the animals and also the leader and also the best fighter… we could’ve had the quintessential Soft boy/Headstrong Girl relationship, and he could’ve been named Master of Husbandry. :)
Grimmel literally got everything he wanted even in death, not only did he destroy everything they loved, but he got hiccup to destroy it himself!
''we could’ve had the quintessential Soft boy/Headstrong Girl relationship'' Yeah thank fucking God they didn't go with this overused trash. Tired of seeing men turned into absolute whimps. Everyone suggesting shit like this hasn't ever stepped into a gym and seen the difference between men and women firsthand.
@@TheStraightestWhitest Username checks out. Go away ignorant dude
that last reply lmao ig it fits their name but wow
Because after the first movie astrid is a generic love interest
After the first two movies, they just abandoned the whole arc of the trilogy and it just cut the legs off of both of the other ones. I'm glad I'm not the only one who hated the messages of the third movie.
For me, 😊😊I know why people were upset, but why do they just despise that sometimes people part ways? Even if it hurts it just happens.
Everyone says they didn't hav to depart, but it was protecting dragons from determined hunters, people that are potentially harmed, and it's mature to give up some wants for more important needs.😊😊 Why does this generation resent selflessness?🥺🥺🥺
Also, what's wrong with making a family??🥺🥺 It's normal and healthy to have relationships with people. It's normal to have a lover, and love involves sacrifice and taking responsibility.
This vid talks about the theme: Love, (and how it works).
ua-cam.com/video/T1E-0vG9EOU/v-deo.html
...and this one how the themes compliment each other
ua-cam.com/video/C2FwGd7muks/v-deo.html
7:30 😊😊 I totally understand this, but it's not a contradiction. People part ways all the time irl. Like me, I went to 4 different highschools and 4 different homes after moving from my first home, barely had time to get comfortable and make friends. It hurt at first, but wasn't that hard to get over. People move away, people die, we hav priorities that part us from our families. It's not stupid to #1) keeping dragons out humans' reach, #2) letting him live (it's not like we judge our siblings and devorsed parents for making a life), #3) Dragons and humans live in different social structures, so hav to lead their kind in different ways. Plus Berk was a mess while Hiccup had his perfect utopia unicorn fart glasses on about it all. And #4) It's not all about the dragons, it's also about the people.
Yes, these nihilistic messages are just toxic, not to mention they killed all Night Furies off screen, and they made Toothless a special little snowflake with him becoming the king of all dragons without a good reason.
This movie is what got me into animation, because I wanted to create a different ending to this trilogy.
I think HTTYD 3 honestly sucks, it completely undermines what happens in the Gift of The Nightfury
I already mentioned this in another similar video but this is exactly how I feel about this movie, and Toy Story 4. Toy Story 4 butchered the message of the prior three films, AND stunted the growth of its characters in a single film.
I LOVE HTTYD, it is to this day one of my absolute favorite movies, the music, the setting, the characters, the plot. ALL of it amazing. I can watch HTTYD over and over and over and never get bored. Only one other piece of media has made me feel the way HTTYD does and that's ATLA.
The 2nd movie? It's ok. I don't like how they basically ret-conned Hiccups mom into the story but hey, gotta kill off Stoic and make Hiccup the chief of the village. We all knew it was coming, Hiccup and Astrid? Amazing, I love their dynamic and relationship. Snotlout and Fishlegs fighting for Ruffnuts affection? Hilarious.
The 3rd movie? Honestly? It felt like it was just "ok, they've waited 9 years for this, let's just wrap it up" I hated the villain POV and how his segments felt like a typical mob movie of some kind. I don't think Ruff, Tuff, Snotlout, Fishlegs OR their dragons were mentioned by name ONCE. Just way too many plotholes. Where did Fishlegs get the baby Gronkle? Is it Meatlugs baby? we don't know, they never tell us.
and WHY call your movie "The hidden world" if you're only gonna spend less than 5 minutes IN that hidden world!?
The movie felt short, the movie felt rushed and I just didn't like it.
Thank you for articulating what I felt about this movie so thoroughly and beautifully! This movie felt the least character-driven and the most "plot needs to happen so it happens." Like you said, the final choice and message undermines so much of what the series (and the tv show, which I also watched) were focused on and building towards. The core of this franchise was the friendship and bond between Hiccup and Toothless, so an ending that undercuts that friendship and lets it go just couldn't be satisfying to me.
I just called it "Bye bye Butterfree" but with dragons. And, as someone who read the books, the movie ending felt like a slap in the face.
It doesn't even touch the significance of "There were dragons when I was a boy". That phrase was so empty in the movie.
I think the final film was in no way the right way to end the trilogy. The dragons leaving makes everything Hiccup and Toothless did over the course of six whole years was all for nothing. There was no pay off. I would have had the dragons stay. As although the dragons would still be at risk of being exploited, they would be able to be accepted as if the dragons are hidden away, humans can’t warm up to them.
Well if they Stay there would be more casualties for both humans and dragons. Plsu I Think HTTYD 3 Cemented the themes of the first two
@@primevalyautja1305 The core theme of Hiccup growing up as a leader and making tough decisions, yes. They nailed that core theme perfectly in this film. But the main theme of the series was challenging nature’s law and creating so called “forbidden friendships”. In the final film the theme wasn’t there at all.
@@sebastianengelsman7255 Nah it's just your opinion. I Love HTTYD 3 and the ending.
Plus HTTYD 2 is overrated in MY Opinion
@@sebastianengelsman7255 Well? I Said you have your opinions and I have my own
@@primevalyautja1305 I know.
One of the most annoying things about this movie is that, like you said, Gift of the Night Fury already addressed Toothless's potential separation from Hiccup for mating and... Toothless basically chose Hiccup instead. Sure, he hadn't met the Light Fury yet, but if it was so necessary for him to have a mate, wouldn't he have taken the chance then? That's why him choosing her in 3 is so frustrating: we already went through this scenario, it just ends differently and out of character. (I have to admit, the Nightlights are super cute, but then if we wanted them to stay together Hiccup could've totally trained the Light Fury.) In addition, Hiccup and Toothless weren't using each other as a crutch or were overly dependent on each other: their relationship was symbiosis, a healthy and loving brotherhood between two people of different species. Saying one was dependent on the other trivializes the healthiness of their relationship or misunderstands it. They didn't use each other to deal with trauma, either (in fact, they inflicted trauma on each other); instead, they supported each other and grew stronger because of their mutual bond.
Grimmel, frankly, reminds me of Viggo. Yeah, he's kind of Viggo 2.0 for me, except he's exclusively focused on Night Furies. Since we've already seen Viggo in action, we kind of know what to expect with Grimmel--and actually, he's not nearly as good as Viggo in my opinion because Viggo is this tactical genius who's almost always several steps ahead of Hiccup and is a scary threat because of it. Grimmel's certainly not a Drago-level threat, although he sure wants to be. As far as being a foil for Hiccup, I think Viggo did a good enough job and clearly showed just how far Hiccup could've fallen had he not befriended Toothless.
Also, I might get some flak for this, but I never really cared for Hiccup and Astrid's relationship. I thought it would be great for them to remain friends, especially since Hiccup saw her true colors in the first movie and realized his crush on her was misplaced. If he absolutely needed to be paired up with someone, I honestly think Heather from the TV show is a much better fit. They have similar personalities and cognitive styles, not to mention similar dragons (and I'm not saying people with different personality types can't date, but the synergy and chemistry between Hiccup and Heather is really fun to watch). Maybe it's because Astrid bullied him, even just indirectly, but him ending up with her has never sat right with me, even if it was endgame from the very start. It just would've been fresh and fun to see the male lead not end up with the female lead for once. Additionally, I think it would've been great to see Astrid become chief of Berk and Hiccup stay the head of the Dragon Academy; this way Hiccup could continue to do what he loves as it is clear he doesn't feel comfortable being the chief but is still a great leader.
The whole thing about trying to protect the dragons because too many people want to use them for the wrong reasons is understandable, but it doesn't mean Toothless absolutely had to leave Hiccup. Dragons are inherently neutral and one's relationship with them is what determines whether they are treated well for good or used for bad. There are always going to be both types of people, and having the dragons hide away doesn't solve the issue, it just puts it off indefinitely. However, I really like that proposed alternate ending! It makes so much more sense and works as a fantastic fulfillment to the themes introduced in the first one, not to mention as you've pointed out it brings the story full-circle. It would be a perfect way to explain why neither Vikings (at least Berkians) nor dragons exist in modern times. Thanks to your video I'm very interested in fan-rewriting the last two HTTYD movies (I'm including 2 because I believe it deserves to be at the end of the trilogy due to the high stakes, but I'll definitely mix the best elements of both with each other). Should prove a fun experiment! Great video, I'll be sure to check out more~!
I actually have much the same opinion of Hiccstrid so it's nice to know I'm not the only one.
I am no fan of Hiccstrid [I do not mind the aesthetics and cuteness, but I don't feel any attachment to Hiccstrid, and instead have my own ships I like, even if taboo], as I see them more as siblings and friends rather than a loving and beneficial couple. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this all (because while Astrid could have potentially be one of the first people to believe in him, she joined the crowd who doubted and bullied Hiccup very badly).
THANK GOD SOMEONE PUT EVERYTHING I FELT INTO WORDS BLESS
httyd 3 doesnt exist.
someone saw some kids fanfic and wanted to make it into a motion picture to make their dream come true. This crap ain't cannon~
For me, 😊😊I know why people were upset, but why do they just despise that sometimes people part ways? This movie is maturing with its audience. Even if it hurts it just happens.
Everyone says they didn't hav to depart, but it was protecting dragons from determined hunters, people that are potentially harmed, and it's mature to give up some wants for more important needs.😊😊 Why does this generation resent selflessness?🥺🥺🥺
Also, what's wrong with making a family??🥺🥺 It's normal and healthy to have relationships with people. It's normal to have a lover, and love involves sacrifice and taking responsibility.
This vid talks about the theme: Love, (and how it works).
ua-cam.com/video/T1E-0vG9EOU/v-deo.html
...and this one how the themes compliment each other
ua-cam.com/video/C2FwGd7muks/v-deo.html
7:30 😊😊 I totally understand this, but it's not a contradiction. People part ways all the time irl. Like me, I went to 4 different highschools and 4 different homes after moving from my first home, barely had time to settle and make friends, and lost most of my friends numbers. It wasn't that hard to get over, and it's a part of life. We move away, we have lives,, people die we have priorities that part us from our families. It's not stupid to protect Toothless by #1) keeping him out of reach of humans, #2) letting him live (it's not like we judge our older siblings and devoured parents for moving forward as we do), #3) Dragons and humans live in very unique social structures, so have to lead their kind in different ways. Plus Berk was a mess and Hiccup was the only one with perfect utopia unicorn fart glasses on about all of it. And #4) It's not all about the dragons, it's also about the people. Dragons are the vessel in which these themes are carried.
@@marshmallowvampire8503 the villain totally sucks in this movie. The movie completely undermines all of HTTYD2. Some random ass woman broke up Hiccup and Toothless's entire relationship. Also, Hiccup and Toothless aren't friends, there blood brothers, they literally took limbs from each other. In gift of the night fury, Toothless literally sacrificed his own bodily independence for Hiccup. It's illogical that they split apart.
I don't particularly think the "parting ways" trope is necessarily a bad trope. It's only bad when it necessitates a reversal of the core themes of the previous movies. And even the Watsonian analysis doesn't even hold up, because as other people have pointed out, keeping the dragons isolated in one single location causes a huge amount of plot holes.
In any case, much of the arguments that people come up with to support the ending, ironically, *echo the villains' sentiments.*
"Dragons and humans are different, they are so different that they cannot live together properly."
"Berk is a mess and Hiccup has perfect utopia unicorn fart glasses about all of it."
These are practically the same views that people like Grimmel hold - that Hiccup's views are too radical, too naive, too progressive for society. The movie validating these opinions is literally allowing the villain to win. It's saying Grimmel was right in the end, even though just one movie ago a villain with very similar ideas about dragon and human co-habitation was shut down.
So from both a Doylist perspective, and a Watsonian perspective, the ending does not hold up.
@@SneezyReviews Exactly. It also ends up undermining the strength of Hiccup and Toothless's relationship. They are quite literally joined at the hip. These two have been through hell together and now, when a less intimidating hell comes knocking, they part ways for some reason. What was the point of risking their lives to show Berk that dragons and people can co-exist. What was the point of defending this new dragon / man village when a tyrant came? What was the point of all of this sacrifice?
Why did I only find this now??! I honestly don't know what to say except I agree with everything you point out. It's so weird to me that people look back at this movie and think that it is the perfect ending to the trilogy. I sometimes wonder if people are watching the same movie as me, lol. And that Spirit comparison was so perfect! (I love that movie so much)
I always felt that the director really wanted this ending so badly that they wrote backwards from there to try and make the characters fit the plotline rather than the characters coming to their own conclusion. I also hate that they essentially retconned The Gift of the Nightfury short (even though they do reference it). The whole point of that thing (well besides for an obligatory christmas special) was to reinforce Toothless and Hiccup's relationship by Hiccup making a display of letting his dragon go, and Toothless basically saying "If I can't fly with you, I'd rather not fly at all." And then THW just kind of crapped all over that. (Like then what was the point???)
Anyways, I could go on and on about this but this was a really great and detailed review!
Thank you so much! I feel like it’s so strange so few people are talking about this! Also I loved the alternate ending! I’m probably going to use that as my head cannon from now on because I still can’t come to terms with that out of place and kinda depressing ending… it probably doesn’t help that I kinda have a thing about people I care about moving on and forgetting about me as soon as it becomes inconvenient 😅
Am I the only one who hates the light fury? She just felt annoying and Toothless immediately falls for her
Their relationship was basically obsessive lust being portrayed as true love. Dean Deblois took a page from Twilight Saga here.
No I hated her as well. She had no personality and only served as a mere plotdevice
@@anfani6839 Like Bella Swan in Twilight.
I detested her, so much so I refuse to revisit the third movie because I want nothing to do with her.
To be honest I don’t consider HTTYD 3 canon, I just imagined some alternate timeline where their character development and stuff was kept and things were resolved naturally as the previous installments.
You know my second biggest problem with the movie was light fury she had absolutely no personality which is super upsetting because toothless has so much personality you can't help but love him so I had a few ideas that I think would have made the movie a lot better ( side note the albino idea actually was a comment from somebody else on a different video but I'm using it here PS be prepared to read a lot)
One direction they could have went with the light fury :
They could have given her skin pigmentation problem which would make her an albino night fury making it easy for humans to trap and find her which is why she is so scared of them also it would make her stand out having it be there are more night furies In the hidden world which I know a lot of people didn't like that there weren't any night furies in the hidden world, her being the only white one it would also be really cute to have toothless try and make her be around hiccup but she always gets scared it would be a cute gimmick throughout the movie also it would give her more screen time and give her the personality of being scared ,cute and innocent but cares about toothless enough to try to be around humans
Another option :
if light furies really had to be a thing she should have been the female version of a night fury she's never been seen because she can turn invisible and because they're also thought to be extinct and she could be extremely dangerous and poisonous to humans and other animals because in the animal kingdom the brighter and prettier the animal looks more likely it's going to kill you but her being white and beautiful to more easily attract a male making her a more dangerous version of toothless having it be for the the fury species the male is the one that takes care of the offspring and find food at night which explains their color toothless being black to be able to get food and not be found by humans while with the offspring while the female is more of the dangerous protector kind of being like a lions pride but the males are pretty much the lionesses it would also make her more vicious and cautious then the male, partly explaining why toothless is much more kind , having her design a bit more Sharp making the spikes and sparkles on her back not only poisonous but painful making that the reason why humans can't ride them and if they really needed a villain the light furies could have been the dragon grimmauld was using the poison from also giving her another reason to hate humans and it would make her really cool giving her personality a lot like Astrid her being really tough and great in combat toothless not only being entranced by her but impressed the only thing that can take her down is her own poison don't tell me that wouldn't be cool
This is more of a storyline difference :
They could hate each other at first now hear me out this is how their first interaction would go down he would since her nearby like he did in the movie see her and be entranced also like in the movie but when she shoots a hiccup is when toothless gets mad and goes in defense mode trying to protect his friend the life fury would look at him with confusion and anger roaring back at him essentially them arguing hiccup runs up trying to defuse The situation but and him doing so the light fury flies away , hiccup quickly jumps on to toothless telling him to go after her but toothless refuses , throughout the movie instead of toothless being curious about the light fury we get some screen time with only her being curious and following toothless around from a distance watching him with hiccup in confusion of their relationship toothless notices this and at first he is annoyed and still defensive but after a while he what approach the light fury and they could have little moments of toothless teasing her about her following them giving them cute flirtatious banter scenes throughout the movie also if it went down like that this could have been how they got to the hidden world, eventually hiccup puts on that tail where he can fly on his own and toothless shows the light fury Burke a lot like when hiccup showed Astrid what it was like to fly on a dragon , toothless could be showing the light fury the benefits of being around humans , why they're not dangerous and then that leads to that cute flying around scene that was in the movie and it would mean a lot more since this would be the first time that they're really getting to be alone with each other just flying and being their first real romantic moment ,so since he showed her his home she takes him to the hidden world to show him her home , toothless is gone for a long time so hiccup like in the movie goes to find toothless but comes the same conclusion that he's happy there and so him and Astrid leave but without getting caught by the other dragons not too long after they leave two for his sitting by the entrance looking out rather sad the light fury flies up beside him happy but sees his frown and frowns as well nudging him to pretty much tell her what's wrong he looks to the hidden world then he looks back out the light fury clearly sees he's upset and what he wants so she gestures him to leave he smiles at her and jumps around a bit happily nuzzling her and starts to fly away but then stops and looks back at her gesturing for her to follow she backs up and bit looks down showing that this is her home , his body lowers disappointed but gives her a better sweet smile understanding then flies away to go back to hiccup when he makes it back to hiccup of course hiccup is happy but a little later toothless is looking out on that cliff and hiccup walks up seeing he's sad and tells him to go to her toothless looks at him surprised and hesitant but hiccup says "it's okay bud you belong there with her..." Toothless smiles hugging his friend then turns around to fly away but stops seeing the light fury toothless and braces her happily then walks back over the hiccup gesturing her to follow she looks at him with fear and uncertainty but toothless gives her reassuring look so she follows toothless ( showing their Bond and that they trust each other ) she stands in front of hiccup breathing heavily and scared closing her eyes as hiccup is about to touch her snout ( recreating the scene from the first movie but with the light fury ) right before hiccup gets to touch her snout grimmel shoots her and then toothless pulling them away thus continuing the scene in the movie
Ok aside from the fact you need to learn to use some punctuation 😅 this was awesome!!! I love it especially the 2nd idea you have, of the light fury being like Astrid 😁 💯
@@SneezyReviews yeah I need to work on that I have a condition that makes a little hard for me so I get it
@@SneezyReviews but thank you really
Nah dude, I'm Perfectly fine with the Light fury, all that you said is just your opinion
@@primevalyautja1305 indeed it is
These videos are so thorough and well done. I watched a few and immediately subscribed. The "Chemistry between Beauty and the Beast" video couldn't be more perfectly done.
Good early early rainy Saturday morning from Brisbane.
Actually, if Astrid and Hiccup were traditional Vikings, they'd have been married by the end of the first movie. (jk, but also truth)
Haha fair. I was talking about "traditional" in the context of the established HTTYD universe :)
@@SneezyReviews Of course, perfectly fair. I was really just being silly.
@@SneezyReviews Honestly, HTTYD Vikings are as different from real Vikings as Hiccup is from HTTYD Vikings. Hiccup's experience in the forge, and ridiculous hand-eye co-ordination and intelligence should make him Berk's number one Archer, Swordsman and Hnefatafl Grandmaster.
I definetly agree with you, allthough I wasn't that much botherd with the ending
What I was most bothered with is:
- Villan sucked :/ he was just over the top, merry sue u could say cuz OH YEA SURE U JUST KNEW THAT THEY WOULD ATTACK U AT THIS SPECIFIC TOWER AT THIS SPECYFIC MOMENT ! What is he a fortune teller XD? And sure ...ONE HUMAN killed ALL night furys around the world AMAZING ! And SO realistic ;D !
- Second! Chracters -,- ...Astrid suddenly can't think for herself and Valka has to tell her to do something when Hiccup is sad for her to atcually do anything ( also she is his mother why won't she go consol him herself ??) ;
Toothless just decided to court a lady and never come back to his best friend who he has such a big bond with? 0-0 like he couldn't just convince his mate to live amongst humans -,-
Everyone from main cast (outside of Hiccup and Astrid I guess) was mostly uselles and reduced to cheap jokes :/ like that creepy cringe jokes about Snotlout having hots for Hiccups mom 0-0 I cringed every time ....also that text "who died and made you a chief " :/
And don't get me started on the supporting villans...cuz they were just so stupid... also in second movie it was clear that Drago worked ALONE (as a leader) Cuz he wanted to CONTROLL everyone
-They just make it more childish and like a joke while theyre trying to convince us that this events lead to decision that dragons sholdn't stay on the surface :/
Lastly why do they suddenly make Stoick such a saint? Last time I checked in a first movie he didn't want for humans and dragons to live in harmony he straight out wanted to kill all the dragons 0v0 (if he could), he thought that they FReaking ATE his wife 0v0
Love your videos! The beauty and the beast one came up in my recommended and I had to watch your entire backlog. The friendship and connection with dragons is so core to the series, it’s sad to see Toothless relegated to a pet status instead of an equal for the sake of the third movie’s narrative.
If the httyd team insisted on the ending of the dragons leaving for the hidden world, I think a better reason to emphasize would be Hiccup’s adoption of too many dragons. If the theme was more about listening to his fellow Vikings instead of always prioritizing the dragon rescue, it could have been a more natural continuation of the second movie. It’s even shown in the beginning of the third movie. They could have tried to show more why the hidden world isn’t a place for humans (like maybe in a literal volcano that is too hot or some other way that the hidden world is physically inhospitable). This doesn’t completely fix the ending, but I’d prefer it to the codependency angle.
The only problem with the reddit user's version is that since they have gone to the hidden world to hide it's as if they accept defeat still and how can the world ever be ready for dragons if they're hidden. How can they change their views on something they cant see? But otherwise that outro would sound magical
And that's exactly my problem with the actual ending but if they really had to make the dragons hide away I would rather the way she said over the way they did in the movie
Okay so I just saw your review of the 2017 Beauty and the Beast remake (loved it btw) and I really liked your prowess with storytelling and delivering it in an easily digestible way. So I went to your channel and found this, and I cannot stress this enough, I have been in love with HTTYD ever since the first movie came out and I couldn't find anyone who felt like the third movie was terrible.
I watched The Hidden World and was devastated. Grimmal is low budget Drago (the second movie villain) aimed slightly to the left (same motives, different methods) and even had a really similar color pallet so he didn't stand out at all (frankly I'm more scared of the RTTE villains than him). The fact thats all I have to say about him is telling of how much he just didn't stand out.
It was thrilling to finally see another Nightfury (Even tho technically she's a different species considering their children are crosses and not fully one or the other color as it was implied that females = light and males = dark because that IS a thing in nature. Maybe not so starkly black and white but it's the biology of the matter. So Nightfuries will actually be extinct when Toothless dies and only half of the Nightfury genes get passed on) but it was highly disappointing to see this mysterious mistress answer this series-long question of 'are there other Nightfurys' with 'Well yes, but actually no'. She was nothing but a plot device to give to Toothless as an 'excuse' for leaving Hiccup because cLeArlY Hiccup is a burden to Toothless's social life (he's literally Alpha, and so is Hiccup, were we NOT supposed to come to the conclusion that Hiccup and Toothless are supposed to be together???). She was plot for Grimmal, a target, a love interest for Toothless, and... an obstacle?? for Hiccup??? Maybe??? The problem is she doesn't feel like a character. Toothless has made his own decisions since day one, like you said, he chose to stay by Hiccup, he wanted that bond. The Lightfury hasn't done anything except be a plot device and drive an unnecessary wedge between Hiccup and Toothless (*cough cough* plot device *cough cough*) which shouldn't even happen because Hiccup would be 100% okay with a Mrs. Toothless. AND HE IS! He literally made him another tail so that Toothless could be with her, just like The Gift of the Nightfury short. That was the only time he felt in-character in the second half of the movie.
Hiccup's arc makes NO sense. His sudden insecurity without Toothless makes no sense. If you haven't I suggest giving those tv series a watch, because you'll find in them that there are episodes that address Hiccup without Toothless and Toothless without Hiccup, but it always ended in a way that yes, they need each other, but they're still fantastic by themselves. Hiccup is a fantastic swordsman, negotiator, leader, weaponsmith/anything having to do with a forge, and he's a brilliant strategist. Toothless is nowhere in that but he doesn't have to be. That is an incredible way of telling if a relationship is healthy or not. Hiccup doesn't' NEED Toothless, he is not dependent on him except for when he's falling to his death (which happens a lot actually lol). But Hiccup WANTS Toothless and Toothless wants him too. As you said, they bring out the best in each other.
Now Toothless is a little harder cuz hello, dragon. But again in the series you see Toothless become more of a leader over other dragons. Yes he saves Hiccup's life a lot but those are life and death situations, I too would save a friend in a life or death situation. The point is he's not reduced to the knight that saves Hiccup every other second even if that is physically what happens on screen, he is more than just that. He has relationships with other dragons and some humans. Toothless has dealt with humans trying to use him for their own gain, see Dagur or Ivan the Terrible, Drago even, to other humans Toothless is just p o w e r. Toothless, however, chooses to take the high road and even saves half those people when they are in life-threatening situations. He's tested just as much as Hiccup is in whether he should kill/maim these antagonists because you KNOW he can. And its a good mirror. Its reiterated over and over that Hiccup and Toothless are very similar. Hiccup sees himself in Toothelss, from movie number 1, and that holds true for Toothless as well. Toothless could have eaten Hiccup that first time they met when Hiccup set him free. He didn't. Because Toothless, like Hiccup, isn't a killer, he wants peace (with humans) just as much as Hiccup. That is character. Toothless's relationships with other dragons are a bit harder because you only see actions, and Toothelss, knowing his own kind, has to protect Hiccup from a lot of wild dragons who would rather lash out at the small toothpick of a human, easy lunch ya know? But there are a few dragons that have nothing to do with Hiccup, namely the Albino Whispering Death and the frozen Skrill, both dragons Toothless has a personal vendetta against. We have no idea what these dragons have done to Toothless to garner such reaction, but its existence alone gives Toothless character. Toothless did have a life before Hiccup, he still has that life, still goes toe to toe with those foes, except this time he has a Hiccup on his side and he wins. Hiccup has villains he gets mad at, he wants to let loose on them but he has his friends and Toothless to remind him of his morals if he ever gets too far. Again with the mirroring, Toothless has the same thing. He goes crazy on his personal villains but it's up to Hiccup and co to remind Toothless that bloodshed isn't going to solve the problem. They're perfect mirrors and not in a bad way.
Sorry, that was a lot, I didn't actually know how much this irked me until I sat back and found I typed a long stupid rant. My point is you're 100% correct and the Hidden World is an insult to the entire franchise and refuse to acknowledge it as cannon. Time and time again we are told Hiccup and Toothless and dragons and humans are better TOGETHER. End of story.
I feel you, don't worry! I pretty much made this video *because* at the time, everyone seemed to be giving the final movie glowing reviews. I felt like this stuff needed to be said XD
Have you seen this video? I forget exactly where it starts but around the 40 minute mark or so, he gives a different "alternate" (fan-made) ending to HTTYD3 that would have also been so much better than the one we actually got. I highly recommend checking it out. ua-cam.com/video/KwBB2wVD5ow/v-deo.html
Once again your Opinion and not fact..
@@primevalyautja1305 Critiques are always opinions. Strong critiques are opinions which are backed up using textual evidence, as Lizzy has done.
@@SneezyReviews Pff...It's just HTTYD 3 Detractors like you and Lizzy that acted like their opinions are right and other opinions are wrong..
@@primevalyautja1305 Opinions are neither right or wrong. But the textual and metatextual basis on which those opinions are grounded upon are indeed either right or wrong.
That's kind of, you know, how opinions work.
Yes! This! And the beauty of the vikings going to the Hidden World is Dreamworks could still do Nine-Realms and any other spinoff without backtracking their own canon, like they did in Homecoming and Snoggletog, both of which were a ton better than the third movie.
Agreed with everything you said but you forgot a scene where Hiccup's close friends were like idiots watching Hiccup falling to his death while they were making stupid jokes after Light Fury pushed him off Toothless are they supposed be loyal friends or just bunch of idiots?😐
Also she forgot about the fact that the light fury had no other character traits other than the love interest....
FINALLY I THOUGHT I WAS THW ONLY ONE TALKING ABOUT THIS.
Why is everyone LAUGHING as hiccuo literally falls to his death after being thrown off toothless by the light fury??? What is so funny about that?? Bruh.
@@VivianaSilverback Ikr
*I hate light fury and how the riders act in this movie but i think they didn't worry when he was thrown out because they'd trust that toothless would catch him, what I do think is that I did not feel that they were scared when the light fury grabbed him out of nowhere without knowing what she was going to do or when he shot hiccup in the forest and toothless acted very passive*
I absolutely loved How To Train Your Dragon 1 & 2 and when the trailer came out for the third movie I was instantly apprehensive. I didn't know about them talking about how they were going to tie in the ending of the books to the films but I definitely got the impression from the trailer that, that was the direction they were going to go in. I don't know what it was about it but I could just sense that, that's where they would take the story. It made me hesitate to watch the third film, for honestly about a year, until I finally gave in and chose to watch it. (Side note: I was dealing with a lot of depression at the time it came out and just couldn't bring myself to watch it when I knew it was going to be sad) My thoughts though when I finally did see it, was that it was such a cliche way of ending the story, so overused and tired and just disappointing. I've still only seen it that one time because I just don't want to see it again. It's such an amazing story and just to just go back on everything they set it up to be and give up.... what a waste of a good story.
I loved your video on it and it's so good to find someone who agrees with my viewpoint about it because I don't think anyone I know agrees with me. This video is obviously from a few years ago but thank you for making it. I found your channel because of your Zutara videos and I'm really enjoying the other content you have on your channel as well. I also loved Spirit as a kid, one of my favourites and I don't know one person who's even heard of it!
Interestingly, if you go to the httyd subreddit, I think most fans on that sub share our opinion that the final movie undid a lot of the themes and character arcs that had been set up in the first two movies. Average watchers and reviewers probably won't pick it up, but those who were deeply invested in the journey of hiccup and toothless are more likely to feel let down by the trilogy ending, at least from what I've noticed. So if you're looking for more validation or other kindred spirits, I recommend checking out that sub! A few of those redditors have also written some in-depth metas/essays on this topic as well, if you poke around on there I'm sure you'll find some.
I think what I loved about your video is how your put into words what I was feeling but I couldn't quite explain. You have a really clear and concise way of explaining narratives in a way my lecturers at Uni always seemed to fail at. I studied Film in a effort to try and understand stories better because I wanted to attempt a novel but was struggling and I could get onto film courses easier than literature courses and thought a 'simpler' style of writing (scriptwriting) would help me structure my story better, but I think because the lecturers often used much older films and television shows (and often ones I had little to no interest in) I failed to really engage with the story telling tools they were trying to teach me. Watching and listening to you analyse and talk about stories that I actually love is helping me to properly understand the important themes and motivations and drive the narrative and the characters. I knew about them before and was desperately trying to understand them but seeing them applied to programs I love makes it so much more clear to me.
Sorry that was probably more than you needed to hear about me, felt like I needed to say it. I'm not very familiar with reddit honestly but I'll check it out because it will definitely be interesting to read about and find like minded people. Thanks for replying too I did not expect it but I'm very glad you did.
@@NeytiriPhoenix Aww, I appreciate it! And yeah of course, I'm glad I could help. I learned most of what I know about storytelling just from watching other reviewers, mainly. I'm particularly a fan of Lindsay Ellis, filmento, and eliquorice. The Closer Look also has some good takes. I would recommend checking out those channels too if you hadn't already!
Thanks. I actually already had a quick look at Lindsay Ellis as you mentioned her in the Zutara video and will continue to look into her videos and check out her first book (I believe?) to help me out. I'll definitely look into those other ones as well. I'm always on UA-cam and watching videos like yours helps me out figure it all out more than my years in Uni so maybe through them I can make my idea into a cohesive story instead of a jumble of ideas as it is haha 😂
You know what, the Berkians living in the Hidden World in your alternate ending wouldn't work. Because the twins exist. And they are the worst characters. And they keep telling the villains where Hiccup lives. Hiccup would need to take charge and banish the twins from Berk.
I'm extremely conflicted with this movie. I actually love the Light Fury design (graceful and elegant, blends perfectly in the daylight and melts into clouds, and at night she can use her reflective scales to hide) but I have alot problems with story (the only reason Hiccup and Toothless would ever separate is if one of them dies). I go back and forth with trying to tear apart this movie and trying to duct tape it back together. Maybe it would have been better if they split the ending into two movies instead of trying to wrap up everything in one? Flesh out the villains, complete the side arcs, show conflict between the Vikings... Would that have worked?
The alternate ending that's proposed is vastly superior to the canon one. I wished the writers would have thought of that! I got goosebumps with the narration.
I agree with you. I was so disappointed with the movie. It also seems like they didn't thought it through
I'm so glad I found this video. I've always been disappointed with HTTYD 3. It felt like a strange ending to me. The relationship between hiccup and toothless is the core of HTTYD. So it felt weird to me that at the end of the third movie,hiccup and toothless separated.
Third movie is always a disappointment it seems. Kind Fu Panda 3 is the same, but much better and more enjoyable.
This HTTYD 3 is why I prefer the books. The books are more consistent. This is only because of #3. When we only had 1,2, Riders and Defenders of Berk, and Race to the Edge, the film series was good like the books.
Gotta agree with everything except for the book part and KFP 3. While different KFP 3 is still a good movie in my opinion.
@@VivianaSilverbackThe only problem with the KFP 3 movie is how the story is too relied on the jokes
This video wonderfully sums up why Hidden World was so immensely disappointing for me.
i HATED this movie as it ruined my entire childhood. let me explain; no nightfuries except for a marshmallow one, all the dragons has to go (WTF?), they all got old and had kids (why bro). BUT ive got an idea for a future movie; what if for a new movie we start off in another part of the world where there are new species of dragons and some old and where there is new main characters etc and they heard about hiccup book of dragons and basically makes the movie end on a better note where some dragons (if they wanted to) came out to the world while others stayed
I heard about the ending before the movie came out and went nope. I refused to see the movie. For me HTTYD ends at the second movie
I agree. They should have stopped at HTTYD 2 or just made the first movie a stand alone movie
Same
I was looking for a well-put-together video that described my thoughts and feelings about HTTYD 3, and your video puts it very well. All of the deep development they made with the characters and plot over (literal) years was tossed aside.
I watched the first movie as a kid, and the last as an adult, and I genuinely wish they had left the series at two movies. :(
I always thought Hiccup and Toothless should sacrifice themselves in the final film. The moral being this. Some dreams are worth dying for, because they aren't meant for you. They're meant for those who come after you. Having to lay down your life for your loved ones and ideals is the final lesson life has to teach, and one which would bookend the series brilliantly. They started this journey together, and they should've finished it together.
Might have been a little too grim given the tone of the rest of the series. An ending that allowed Hiccup to triumph (thereby validating the values he held, like in the second movie) would have strengthened the themes more, imo.
@@SneezyReviews I think it wouldn't have worked for the first or second, but I don't think Stoick's death would've worked in the first. In the past, HTTYD has always done a fantastic job of maturing with its audience, and pushed the limits of what a family movie was allowed to show. I think if you built up to it properly for the third film, it could be a beautiful ending. We are both, of course, entitled to our own opinions.
@@jaffarebellion292 it's more that the grimness would likely suggest that Hiccup's goal wasn't truly attainable in the end. Like, the beauty of his dream was in the way that it would strengthen both mankind and dragonkind. If Hiccup and Toothless both die in pursuit of his goals then you'd kind of lose that theme, I think. Especially given that their bond is symbolic of the bond between humans and dragons as a whole. If they die, what does that suggest for everyone else?
@@SneezyReviews I'd always had this ending in mind for the hypothetical HTTYD 3 I'd imagined walking out of the second film. A film that took place a decade or so later and explored Toothless and Hiccup's place as leaders of their people, showing them raising families and wanting a better world, no longer just for themselves, but for posterity. Ending on Astrid or Fishlegs bringing a few children to a statue of Hiccup and Toothless. A statue that doesn't depict the conquering hero riding his noble mount, but instead of Toothless placing his head into Hiccup's outstretched hand. The two would be immortalized in stone, and the lessons they had to teach would be passed down the generations for centuries to come. Who knows, maybe even go full alternate history and cut to a few hundred years later, where we pull out from the statue to see a massive city with both human and dragon inhabitants coexisting peacefully. The idea that Hiccup's dream is unattainable is not at all what I meant to convey. More that it's a dream worthy of that last full measure, and sometimes taking that leap of faith and trusting the next generation with that dream can lead to something beautiful. The ending should, though still tragic, bring with it the hope that even after we're long gone, our actions matter, and that ripples of who we were will rebound off the shores of time.
Sorry for the wall of text.
@@jaffarebellion292 I suppose. I still think an ending like Watership down (where they die of old age, AFTER achieving their dreams) would have been more thematically fitting, y'know? HTTYD kind of calls for a "things might have been tough but we stuck it out, believed in ourselves and prevailed against all odds because that's how powerful we are when we have unity on our side" rather than "we had to die for our dreams but good thing our legacy surpassed us". I also believe the first one is a better message to impart on the audience, but that could be just me.
I want your ending so badly 🥺 hardly anybody talks about how trash the forced separation is
So I just finished the video and wow. Never has my opinion of a movie changed so quickly from a single video
I believe you are completely right. The end did feel kind of forced, and the alternative you proposed is way, way better and more thematically coherent.
I wish dreamworks would have gone with it.
In this vain of dialogue, I'd also love to see what did you think about toy story 4
When I first saw the ending, I thought it was a perfect conclusion to the franchise. But then as time went on, I realized just how unnatural and insulting the ending really was. Honestly, I wish the team went with the original plan of having Drago Bludvist return for the final film as he was already a big threat in the second film and they could’ve made him an even bigger threat, which would’ve made the characters deciding to separate from the dragons far more believable than anything that Grimmel did as he wasn’t even nearly as a big of a threat as Drago was. In general, the films took a very different direction than the original book series did, yet they end the exact same way? The Hiccup and Toothless that we know would never give into defeat and decide to separate from one another all because of Grimmel who’s a guy who they managed to kill. This isn’t a bittersweet ending, it’s more depressing 💔
And we didn’t even talk about, that this ending didn’t make sence… I mean, you can‘t take millions of animals out of the nature, without breaking the ecosystem. And Toothless cant take that fin off. So he cant clean himself there? And also, none off the dragon hunters wanted revenge, when berk had no dragons to defend it? Really? And there are no Dragons that cant live there? Like the speedstingers, who cant fly? Or the flightmare? Is this plant, that it eats down there? Are there vulcanos for the Eruptodons? Don’t they kill hundrets of people if they take away the eruptodons, and let the vulcanos break out? Or the amorwing. Does he find metal for his armor? Is there snow for the Snow wraiths? And there are more…
Ok, after watching you video, I'd like to repeat here something I already said... ehm, wrote before.
As one of the relatively new "converts" to this franchise, I managed to grow attached to it very quickly. After experiencing so many cynicism and depressive themes both IRL and in pop-culture, HTTYD attracted me with something very different, something I almost forgot to exist, yet something I needed to witness again - optimistic and perhaps even bit too idealistic theme. Reminder of what it means when something is pure and uplifting. Both first two movies managed to deliver it. Sure, in both were struggles and obstacles, but in the end, heroes (who were also very likable characters I have to say) got their deserved triumph.
And then we have the Hidden World, which left me with mixed feelings, to say at least. I start with positive part, as I really liked the culmination of Hiccup's and Astrid's relationship, which felt to me like well deserved and satisfying and above all, extremely healthy (which is more than I can say about majority of relationships again both IRL and pop-culture). However, the ending with all dragons leaving forever, all those bonds broken, it left me feeling empty and pretty depressed. I don't even consider it "bitter-sweet" like some others, I consider it purely depressing, fatalistic and painful. The last scene of Haddock family visiting Hidden World ten years later to meet Toothless (and later Stormfly as well) was a bit uplifting, although when I read that Dean (who was also forced into making this scene, as he initially intended to end the story before it) said that this was it, after this last visit, they never seen each other EVER, took me back into depressing valley. And even if Haddocks would be visiting Toothless and Stormfly regularly, what of the other characters? We've seen incredibly strong (even in context of others) bond made between Fishlegs and Meatlug, and even Snotlout with Hookfang, despite their love-hate relationship, manage to create bond. What of Valka and Cloudjumper? All those bonds, created, forged and tempered over years (in Valka's case two decades) were broken so that we can have sad ending? Hell, even in Homecoming it is shown that Toothless, even after ten years, still misses Hiccup (and vice versa), and same will probably apply for Stormfly and Astrid, Meatlug and Fishlegs, Hookfang and Snotlout... well, you get the idea. Is this supposed to be satisfying conclusion of franchise build on optimism, hope and triumph of idealistic themes?
As for your own "alternative ending", I feel it exactly the same way. Franchise should have explanation why dragons aren't common sights in our world? Fine. Get rid of the entire concept of "Hidden World is for dragons only, humans do not belong here". Let Berkians truly move there, maybe facing some issues with acceptance from the beginning (as you mentioned, mirroring how dragons had in the beginning difficulties to coexist in human settlements, like in Dragons and Race to the Edge series), building their new settlement on the outskirts of Hidden World, but slowly but surely (with the help of their "bonded" dragons) getting acceptance of wild dragons as well. Dragons would be in safer place (until time when they can return comes), but there would be no need for destroying all those bonds.
For now, I have to rely on fan-fictions (even those of my own making) to "override" this depressive "ending", but I honestly hope one day we will get HTTYD 4, and Berkians reunite with their dragons. Their bond made them family (blood be damned), and family (at least properly working one) should stick and be together. And if Dean won't make this happen... well, I do hope someone else will appear that make it happen.
Make Hidden World wildlife sanctuary for dragons... and let Berkians become it's "rangers" and "anti-poacher unit"!
thank you for this comparison and this review! your reviews are always in-depth and well-thought out. having watched every movie separately over the past decade, this didn't become a problem to me until you mentioned it. i definitely didn't enjoy that they separated ways to 'settle down' and 'have a family', and i remembered watching toothless have a crush and then forget about his friend, which i feel is so inconsistent considering the depth of friendship those two share. this portrayal of adult life echoes the words that boomers always tell the young adults nowadays - that in the end, your life and purpose is to marry and settle down, that friendships and dreams don't matter in the end. it was definitely disheartening to see that the happy ending is always portrayed as separation with everything and everyone you care about except your crush who you managed to win over. hiccup and toothless are more than just their crushes, and their friendship was so meaningful because it was unconventional and revolutionary in their society, yet at that time they were the only ones who understood each other.
I don't know, the whole movie felt rushed. The creators wanted to cram so many things into final movie that in order to do that they had to take out many of the aspects that made HTTYD well, HTTYD.
Aaaaand subscribed!
There's should've been 100 pure blooded Night Furys
This makes me not even want to watch it man why dreamworks do us like that
For the feels and nothing more
Would be cool if people in the "dragons of the nine realms" spin off finds a way to travel back to berk and start a new movie of httyd 4
I felt a vague unease about the third movie and you might have just shown me why... I much prefer the ending suggested here, like damn, that would've been great!
5:15 Bruh I can't with these edits XD
Ur so underrated subbed
They tried to follow the books but there were three hiccups between: hiccup the first who stopped the war (story similar to httyd1), hiccup the second who worked with dragons but was killed by his own father and hiccup the third (book hiccup story) who started a war by accident (he freed hiccup II’s dragon) and even in a war with all dragons wanting him dead he didn’t want a world without them, movie hiccup should be the first hiccup story, not the third, everything is so bad, go read the book guys
i really love these type of video's because im so bad at putting my emotions and toughts into words. and even after all these years the third film sits so wrong with me.
all the characters felt out of character. the light fury had no character and i also hate her designe, the art book they released about it made it worse.
and as someone who is 22 years old and still bestfriends with two of my childhood friends i have always hated the people grow appart leave them all for romance trope. i think bringing up spirit was a great point, and in the books it literally started with ''there where dragons when i was a boy''
the books are a written as if hiccup wrote them, that story was alot like spirit. dragons where treated more like pets their method of training was YELL AT IT, in the books the dragons gradually left returning to the sea of their own choice.
the book ending was beautifully written and earned it's ending. the 3d film really flopped it. and having been obsessed with the animated series since i was a kid.
the last film falls ven more flat because it takes a crap on all the character development of the other rider, i cant see any of them parting with their dragons without a fight, i cant see any of them tell hiccup that he should leave toothless. snotlout crying and ready to fight a fire worm queen for hookfang, astrid poisoning herself so they can make an antidote for stormfly all these moments reduced to nothing because of that one film. anyways long ramble over XD
Great Video
Pokemon played wt this trope all the way back in the first season, but then subverted it, and it was so much more powerful, and still had all of the feels.
Idk why I commented racial segregation propaganda but I remember leaks of toothless having to leave and replace his dying father or someone who's one of those alpha leader thingies
Dreamworks should just rewrite the whole script!
I think it would have been fine if they separated, but it felt undercut by everyone losing their dragons all at once! The last two movies had moments with friendship overcoming dragons' hive mind programming. But in the end Toothless became the queen bee he once overcame. There's something to be said about understanding and respecting the instincts of wild animals, but this wasn't the franchise.
Subbed
You speak from my soul.
When I first watched Dragon 3, I realized that all my emotional connection was just because I have watched (and absolutely adore) Spirit, so of course it would resonate with me. But the two stories are too different and they should not have the same ending.
This video game me goosebumps ♥️
I was very disappointed in the last movie